WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.579 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.559 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.940 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.640 sponsor is Octopus Energy. 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Hello everybody and 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.079 welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:13.159 name is Jordan and today I am joined by Lucy 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:16.269 from Lucy Bates Children's OT. We're going to 00:01:16.269 --> 00:01:18.870 talk about sensory circuits today. Lucy has worked 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:21.829 as an occupational therapist for over 20 years. 00:01:22.030 --> 00:01:25.329 She has postgraduate training in sensory integration 00:01:25.329 --> 00:01:27.849 alongside other topics. For the last 11 years, 00:01:27.909 --> 00:01:29.750 she's been working as an independent therapist 00:01:29.750 --> 00:01:33.049 running Lucy Bates Children's Occupational Therapy 00:01:33.049 --> 00:01:36.569 Collective, a small team of therapists. Hi, Lucy. 00:01:37.129 --> 00:01:40.420 Good morning. How are you? I'm good, thank you. 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.120 I feel really good about this topic. It's a question 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:46.079 I get lots on my DMs. I think sensory circuits 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:48.859 is a really hot topic at the moment and people 00:01:48.859 --> 00:01:52.379 are thinking it's what they need and want, but 00:01:52.379 --> 00:01:54.760 don't really know how to implement it or who 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:57.439 it's for or how to do it. So I'm really interested 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.560 to have this conversation with you today. Fantastic. 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.480 Yes, can't wait to get started. Amazing. So I 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.099 suppose the first question would be who... is 00:02:07.099 --> 00:02:10.340 a sensory circuit for so a sensory circuit can 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:13.539 be for anybody anybody can benefit from a sensory 00:02:13.539 --> 00:02:16.759 circuit we've all got sensory systems as human 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.099 beings so we all need you know there might be 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:22.900 periods during our day where we feel we need 00:02:22.900 --> 00:02:26.219 to kind of support our regulation and our energy 00:02:26.219 --> 00:02:28.580 match to what we're doing so it's about kind 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:31.139 of matching our energy levels to the activity 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:34.280 that we're doing so anybody can benefit from 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.860 a sensory circuit Is there any reason why, in 00:02:38.860 --> 00:02:42.280 particular, this kind of sensory circuit is bounded 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:45.560 around the SEND schools or SEND children? Is 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:49.039 there anything about that category of children, 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:51.979 I suppose, where they might need a little bit 00:02:51.979 --> 00:02:56.300 more input? Yes, so children with SEND particularly 00:02:56.300 --> 00:03:00.000 may have differences in how they process sensory 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.069 information. So may need a little bit more support 00:03:04.069 --> 00:03:07.229 in terms of supporting their regulation generally 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:09.969 to do activities. As human beings, as I've said 00:03:09.969 --> 00:03:12.509 already, we've all got sensory systems and we 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:14.930 will have all developed different ways to support 00:03:14.930 --> 00:03:18.009 our regulation. For example, I'm quite noise 00:03:18.009 --> 00:03:21.069 sensitive. So I know that if I'm going into a 00:03:21.069 --> 00:03:24.050 busy open office environment, that doesn't work 00:03:24.050 --> 00:03:26.909 for me. I need some headphones to be able to 00:03:26.909 --> 00:03:29.330 focus and concentrate and block everything else 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:33.240 out. The majority of us have got our own regulation 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.379 strategies that we have learnt and we use and 00:03:36.379 --> 00:03:38.740 we implement on a day -to -day basis. Children 00:03:38.740 --> 00:03:42.340 with SEND specifically might have more differences 00:03:42.340 --> 00:03:45.400 in processing sensory information and haven't 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.879 quite worked out what helps them regulate as 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:51.400 yet. So a sensory circuit is one way of supporting 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.629 that regulation. Yeah, so I suppose some children 00:03:55.629 --> 00:03:57.789 that are maybe more in tune with what their body 00:03:57.789 --> 00:03:59.849 needs, can listen to their body and understand 00:03:59.849 --> 00:04:02.990 what it needs, might be naturally, almost subconsciously, 00:04:02.990 --> 00:04:05.330 regulating themselves throughout the day anyway. 00:04:05.550 --> 00:04:08.669 They might be tapping their pen, wiggling their 00:04:08.669 --> 00:04:11.409 feet, going for a drink and all of those kind 00:04:11.409 --> 00:04:13.090 of things. Whereas maybe some of our SEND children, 00:04:13.169 --> 00:04:15.870 especially with those interoception, that can't 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:17.850 really listen to their bodies that well, might 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:19.990 just need that more, you know, so I suppose supported 00:04:19.990 --> 00:04:22.980 input. in order to stay regulated, is that right? 00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:25.220 Yeah, especially I suppose our younger children 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:27.560 that haven't, as you said, worked out what works 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.240 for them yet in terms of working out what different 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.860 strategies they need to use at different points 00:04:33.860 --> 00:04:35.939 during the day to be able to, as you say, to 00:04:35.939 --> 00:04:38.839 kind of energy matching and be able to match 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.079 their alertness levels to their activity that 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.160 they're doing. So something more structured and 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.819 a bit more supported by the adults that are working 00:04:47.819 --> 00:04:51.540 with them can then support that regulation. but 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:54.300 a sensory circuit goes through things in in more 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:57.240 of a structured way rather than oh we're just 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:58.939 going to go and have a movement break or we're 00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:01.420 just going to go and you know sit with some music 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:04.740 on so it follows more of a structure Are we all 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:06.220 right explaining a little bit more about that 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:07.740 structure? Because you mentioned, you compared 00:05:07.740 --> 00:05:09.259 it to movement break. I think that's the perfect 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:11.639 example and comparison of how it is different. 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:14.839 I've noticed that sensory circuits are, because 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.720 of the structure of the sensory circuit, my children 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:19.720 are coming back far more regulated and grounded 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.850 and ready to work than... just the movement break 00:05:22.850 --> 00:05:27.670 alone so a movement break tends to be more focused 00:05:27.670 --> 00:05:30.269 just around those kind of alerting activities 00:05:30.269 --> 00:05:33.449 so you might find with a movement break if you're 00:05:33.449 --> 00:05:36.230 just putting say like a song on the whiteboard 00:05:36.230 --> 00:05:38.490 or we're going to get up and do some star jumps 00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:42.250 those children that maybe are a little bit more 00:05:42.250 --> 00:05:45.629 sensitive to the bigger movements might then 00:05:45.629 --> 00:05:48.899 become over alert and then find it much more 00:05:48.899 --> 00:05:51.980 difficult to kind of then settle a sensory circuit 00:05:51.980 --> 00:05:57.199 follows three kind of distinct zones or types 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.600 of activity if you like so you start with your 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.360 with your alerting part of your sensory circuit 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.939 which is designed to kind of really wake up the 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:10.139 body The organising section, which is your bit 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:13.160 in the middle, involves much more kind of activities 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:16.199 that involve more organisation, planning, sequencing 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.160 of movement. And it's really trying to access 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:22.660 that kind of frontal lobe and cortex of the brain 00:06:22.660 --> 00:06:25.899 to be able to kind of help. work out kind of 00:06:25.899 --> 00:06:28.339 planning and organization of movement so there's 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:31.339 a bit more thought that goes into the organization 00:06:31.339 --> 00:06:34.240 section of a sensory circuit in terms of the 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:36.579 movements and the activities that we're wanting 00:06:36.579 --> 00:06:38.980 our children and young people to engage with 00:06:38.980 --> 00:06:42.240 and then you always end your sensory circuit 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.480 with a calming activity and the idea of that 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.759 is that you've kind of alerted the sensory system 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:51.240 you've then organized it and then we've kind 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:53.399 of brought it back down again to kind of really 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.819 again match the the alertness level of the activity 00:06:56.819 --> 00:07:00.720 that you're then wanting to move so i suppose 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.459 if you're only doing a movement break or a dance 00:07:03.459 --> 00:07:06.560 break you're only meeting that alerting stage 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:08.420 that first stage aren't you you're completely 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:11.779 skipping that organization that kind of coordination 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:15.389 setting your body right And that grounding, which 00:07:15.389 --> 00:07:17.670 actually I would say are the crucial bits for 00:07:17.670 --> 00:07:19.490 those busy children because they're probably 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:22.850 already in the alerting stage. the fundamental 00:07:22.850 --> 00:07:26.889 thing of that grounding and focusing. Yes. So 00:07:26.889 --> 00:07:29.250 kind of with a movement break, yeah, typically 00:07:29.250 --> 00:07:31.649 you might have said in the past for a movement 00:07:31.649 --> 00:07:32.930 break, right, we're going to kind of, we're going 00:07:32.930 --> 00:07:34.470 to get up and we're going to run on the spot 00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:36.629 or we're going to twirl around in circles or 00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:40.009 we're going to do, say like a dance video or 00:07:40.009 --> 00:07:42.670 some movement songs, something like head, shoulders, 00:07:42.670 --> 00:07:45.610 knees and toes or, you know, anything like that. 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:48.439 basically yeah that the idea of that is that 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:50.740 you're alerting your sensory system so you're 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:52.879 waking it up but what then you're doing with 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:54.279 the movement break as you said is you're kind 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.399 of missing out that completely fundamental right 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.199 we're now going to organize and calm our sensory 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.779 systems down we've just woken them up and then 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:04.180 so you're expecting then children to be able 00:08:04.180 --> 00:08:06.300 to kind of be really in this heightened alert 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:10.959 state to then move straight into typically what 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.019 happens is kind of a more focused yes activity 00:08:14.019 --> 00:08:17.189 so you're kind of alerting children and bringing 00:08:17.189 --> 00:08:20.290 their sensory systems wide awake and really kind 00:08:20.290 --> 00:08:23.269 of hyper alert and then you're expecting them 00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:25.670 to kind of calm down and focus on something and 00:08:25.670 --> 00:08:28.410 the jump is too much we need to support with 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:31.120 that organisation and that calming. Yeah. So 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.080 if you're noticing in your classrooms or in your 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.419 home that you're doing movement breaks and then 00:08:35.419 --> 00:08:39.080 children are then wired, they can't then sit 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.200 and focus and concentrate. Maybe that's why. 00:08:41.259 --> 00:08:44.440 Maybe it's because you're missing these two really 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.259 fundamental steps of the organisation and the 00:08:47.259 --> 00:08:49.159 grounding. I suppose that leads me on to it's 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.440 not just for classrooms, is it? When and where 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.620 would be good for you to do the sensory circuit? 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.990 So sensory circuit can be done. anywhere so they 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:04.929 could be done at home or at school um anytime 00:09:04.929 --> 00:09:07.769 that you're noticing that your child needs to 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:12.210 regulate and to be able to as i say match to 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:14.049 the activity that you're doing so if your child 00:09:14.049 --> 00:09:16.649 is at home and is becoming dysregulated i've 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:19.610 got lots of families that i work with that will 00:09:19.610 --> 00:09:23.009 do a sensory circuit kind of before that before 00:09:23.009 --> 00:09:27.009 a meal time before kind of when they come home 00:09:27.009 --> 00:09:29.870 from school so that they are kind of, especially 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:32.389 those children that maybe hold it together all 00:09:32.389 --> 00:09:35.090 day at school and that are really struggling 00:09:35.090 --> 00:09:38.889 to get that regulation in at school, they will 00:09:38.889 --> 00:09:41.970 come home and do a sensory circuit because then 00:09:41.970 --> 00:09:44.370 it supports that transition from home to school 00:09:44.370 --> 00:09:46.690 and then into their kind of activities after 00:09:46.690 --> 00:09:49.090 school or whatever that is. So, you know, and 00:09:49.090 --> 00:09:51.269 especially again on weekends, holidays, things 00:09:51.269 --> 00:09:54.590 like that, so they can be done. anywhere across 00:09:54.590 --> 00:09:57.250 kind of both home or school environments yeah 00:09:57.250 --> 00:10:00.129 so anywhere before or after a kind of sitting 00:10:00.129 --> 00:10:02.649 activity i suppose it could be from the car or 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:06.830 bedtime or in a taxi anything like that can't 00:10:06.830 --> 00:10:09.669 it yeah so if you've as i say if you've kind 00:10:09.669 --> 00:10:11.870 of come in and you've had children that have 00:10:11.870 --> 00:10:14.929 come into to school on taxis or as kind of long 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:17.529 car journeys doing something to aid that transition 00:10:17.529 --> 00:10:20.169 when they come in of a morning or again kind 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:23.049 of vice versa when they get home we would if 00:10:23.660 --> 00:10:26.120 It's about kind of interspersing them during 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.379 the day. So in an ideal world, you'd have them 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:32.419 kind of across the day at home and at school 00:10:32.419 --> 00:10:34.799 for those children that need them so that you're 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:38.480 not almost waiting for that child to become dysregulated 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.000 to do it. It's about drip feeding into support 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.519 that regulation throughout the day rather than 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.879 waiting for a child to become dysregulated. And 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:49.679 then we're going to do a sensory circuit because 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:52.240 if we've waited till they've become dysregulated, 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.940 it's probably a bit too late. Yeah, I think that's 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:56.840 really fundamental. And I think that's also where 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:00.019 lots of schools are going wrong is they are waiting 00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:02.100 and waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, not realising 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:03.940 the child is bubbling, bubbling, bubbling, bubbling. 00:11:04.460 --> 00:11:06.600 And then it's too late before they've realised 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.000 that they need it. It is so, it's fundamental 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.519 really for it to be before they need it. The 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.759 idea is to keep that regulation as much as we 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:17.960 can. So that they don't have to bubble over because 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.519 it takes so much longer to get them back into 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.279 that regulated state once they've over spilled, 00:11:23.500 --> 00:11:26.120 doesn't it? Yeah, completely. And if you've got 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.179 a child that's really dysregulated, their ability 00:11:29.179 --> 00:11:32.360 to, especially within that kind of organisation 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.139 section, if you've got a child that's dysregulated, 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.100 they're... they're kind of they're in that fight 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:40.440 or flight they're kind of their reptilian brain 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:43.080 is the one that's working so their ability to 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.360 process language to plan their movements to organize 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.720 themselves is going to be kind of on the floor 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.059 so if you're then asking them to engage in something 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:55.039 that's either really alerting or kind of organizing 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:57.559 their ability to do that is just going to be 00:11:57.559 --> 00:11:59.500 kind of non -existent it's going to be really 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:03.679 impacted upon so you need as i say you need to 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.919 drip feed it so even if children look like they're 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.840 okay actually we still need to be doing these 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:11.059 sensory circuits we still need to be doing these 00:12:11.059 --> 00:12:14.799 regulation activities to support that continued 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:16.799 regulation throughout the day you don't want 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.379 to kind of spike and wait for that spike because 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:23.450 it's too late it's too late yeah completely we 00:12:23.450 --> 00:12:26.870 do whole class sensory circuits as soon as they 00:12:26.870 --> 00:12:29.509 come in so lots of my children are transported 00:12:29.509 --> 00:12:31.169 on the taxi so some of them have been on the 00:12:31.169 --> 00:12:33.669 taxi for 45 minutes which is an incredibly long 00:12:33.669 --> 00:12:35.690 time and probably waiting for the taxi before 00:12:35.690 --> 00:12:37.190 that so they probably haven't had movement for 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:40.909 about an hour which is massive for my class so 00:12:40.909 --> 00:12:43.289 we all do sensory circuit we spend about 45 minutes 00:12:43.289 --> 00:12:45.070 to an hour at the beginning of the day but it 00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:46.700 doesn't have to be that long it can be you know 00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:49.379 15 minutes right at the start of the day we do 00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:51.360 it and then we do it after every play time so 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.600 after break time after lunch time and then just 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.240 before home time as well so that's our whole 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.220 class once however some of my students need far 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:00.700 more than that so between every single micro 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:03.480 activity as part of a lesson so even between 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.419 moving from table to group area or group area 00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:09.919 to the computer area they are doing a mini circuit 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:11.899 so they'll do a little bounce on the exercise 00:13:11.899 --> 00:13:14.879 ball and then they'll do some rolling and then 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.039 they'll do some squeezes and then back and then 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:19.580 that takes minutes but they need a lot more drip 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:21.659 fed into that so i suppose it works really well 00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:24.519 doesn't it as a whole class kind of system with 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.539 pillars in the day but for those children need 00:13:26.539 --> 00:13:29.240 even more you can then do those little individual 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:33.200 inputs of that Yeah completely so you can do 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.320 them as part of a whole group and I was in a 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.039 school yesterday and we were thinking about kind 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.940 of adapting what we're doing with the sensory 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:42.720 circuit to meet everybody's needs because we'd 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.779 got some students that were quite physically 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:48.480 capable and able and up on their feet and then 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.399 we'd got some students that had more kind of 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.820 motor challenges and were in wheelchairs and 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:56.080 we were thinking about how we could adapt the 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.799 activities within that sensory circuit so that 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.769 everybody kind of could join in so there's lots 00:14:01.769 --> 00:14:04.049 of things there's lots of different ways of adapting 00:14:04.049 --> 00:14:07.350 kind of the sensory circuit for kind of children 00:14:07.350 --> 00:14:09.809 as i say that are more able and up on their kind 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:12.889 of motor mobility wise they're up on their feet 00:14:12.889 --> 00:14:15.570 right through to children with kind of really 00:14:15.570 --> 00:14:19.909 severe motor difficulties that are say wheelchair 00:14:19.909 --> 00:14:24.309 users to still be able to kind of be alert organize 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:27.049 their movements and then kind of experience that 00:14:27.049 --> 00:14:29.470 calming so it's You know, it's something that 00:14:29.470 --> 00:14:32.350 can be done with a whole wide range of children 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:34.990 with a whole wide range of needs. Yeah, and a 00:14:34.990 --> 00:14:37.169 whole range of interests as well. I find we can 00:14:37.169 --> 00:14:40.330 be really creative with how we get that alerting. 00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:43.509 I suppose alerting is all about spiking that 00:14:43.509 --> 00:14:46.049 kind of heart rate, I suppose. So for some of 00:14:46.049 --> 00:14:49.070 my non -ambulant wheelchair users, it looks like 00:14:49.070 --> 00:14:51.850 putting on some really fun music and spinning 00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:53.970 them around in their chair and wiggling them 00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:58.289 and tickling them. uh scaring them like always 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:00.269 like like don't care kind of thing but like some 00:15:00.269 --> 00:15:02.350 of them really love that and it's about raising 00:15:02.350 --> 00:15:04.389 their heart rate and they really get alert which 00:15:04.389 --> 00:15:06.629 is so important when you're a wheelchair user 00:15:06.629 --> 00:15:09.509 especially if you um around that kind of physio 00:15:09.509 --> 00:15:12.309 time you need that movement you need that alert 00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:16.190 alertness what would organizing look like for 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:19.289 a wheelchair user and then as well as grounding 00:15:20.649 --> 00:15:23.690 So I think it's important to think about, we 00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:26.230 tend to focus on movement and really hitting 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:28.269 that kind of proprioceptive vestibular system 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:31.830 when we're thinking about kind of sensory strategies. 00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:35.169 But it's important not to forget your other senses 00:15:35.169 --> 00:15:38.350 as well. So in terms of kind of backtracking 00:15:38.350 --> 00:15:40.509 a little bit in terms of alerting, you could 00:15:40.509 --> 00:15:43.669 use smells to kind of, you know, wake people 00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:46.669 up as well as music or as lights. I talk a lot 00:15:46.669 --> 00:15:49.620 when I'm talking to... teachers and parents about 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:51.759 kind of the wider environment so it's thinking 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.940 about how does our environment change so alerting 00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:57.000 you might want to open the doors and put the 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.059 lights on and if you've got some you know kind 00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:03.700 of bright materials and thinking about kind of 00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:06.019 those children with really severe needs that 00:16:06.019 --> 00:16:08.679 maybe struggle to kind of access things with 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.110 our hands as well you know we've used water bottles 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:15.110 to kind of spray with kind of cold water or kind 00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:17.370 of ice and things like that to kind of as you 00:16:17.370 --> 00:16:19.850 say really wake the system up so there's so much 00:16:19.850 --> 00:16:22.450 that you can do with your other senses as well 00:16:22.450 --> 00:16:24.669 as your movement so you haven't got to necessarily 00:16:24.669 --> 00:16:28.529 rely just so much on the movement size of things 00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:30.909 it's really thinking about your environment so 00:16:30.909 --> 00:16:33.409 in your alerting section you know the tone of 00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:35.450 voice that you use might be different we might 00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:38.330 be really as we kind of coined the phrase, panto 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:40.809 it up a little bit. So you might be loud, your 00:16:40.809 --> 00:16:42.809 voice is going to be louder, you might start 00:16:42.809 --> 00:16:47.629 singing or... using bottles filled with kind 00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:50.330 of rice or lentils or pasta and you kind of shake 00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:52.610 it round. And so it's really, you know, hitting 00:16:52.610 --> 00:16:55.250 all of the senses. Obviously, you've got to work 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:56.889 with the children that you need and you don't 00:16:56.889 --> 00:16:59.529 want to completely overwhelm them and end up 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:01.409 like a rabbit in the headlights. But it's maybe 00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:03.830 choosing a few of those different things to think 00:17:03.830 --> 00:17:06.849 about. Organising -wise, it's things that, as 00:17:06.849 --> 00:17:09.150 I say, take a little bit more planning in terms 00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:13.430 of movement. So for our more kind of... physically 00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:17.450 mobile children it's having things like stepping 00:17:17.450 --> 00:17:20.349 stones or leap pads so even if they're just kind 00:17:20.349 --> 00:17:23.170 of walking from one to another even if that's 00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:26.910 with a handheld or a peanut ball is almost like 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:29.210 you know your best friend because you can do 00:17:29.210 --> 00:17:31.750 alerting organizing and calming with a peanut 00:17:31.750 --> 00:17:34.529 ball so with kind of one piece of equipment you 00:17:34.529 --> 00:17:37.630 can you can hit all of those things so you know 00:17:37.630 --> 00:17:39.529 if parents are ever saying to me what equipment 00:17:39.529 --> 00:17:43.380 can i buy a peanut ball is is the is the way 00:17:43.380 --> 00:17:47.279 to go for a kind of cheap, easy, accessible piece 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:50.579 of equipment. Another one is tractor tyres or 00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:54.799 car tyres. We can do rolling and chasing after 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.779 them for their alerting. We can stack them because 00:17:56.779 --> 00:17:58.299 they're quite heavy, especially if you've got 00:17:58.299 --> 00:18:02.259 bigger. pmld children or bigger disabled children 00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:04.980 and they need bigger equipment for to feel that 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:07.200 weight i often find that tires are great so you 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.299 can stack them to get that heavy lifting that 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.720 coordination or you can balance on them you can 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.119 step inside them all that kind of love organizing 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.339 stuff and then grounding we can sit in them and 00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:19.099 it gives you a lovely hug and you can kind of 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:21.839 squeeze it so yeah car tires and garages give 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.539 them away they don't want them so yeah if you 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:26.640 live near me like in cornwall in the countryside 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.339 then tractor tires are amazing but if you just 00:18:28.339 --> 00:18:30.579 have car tires that works well that works really 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:34.819 well yeah completely kind of organizing is anything 00:18:34.819 --> 00:18:36.759 where there's going to be a bit of element of 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.369 thought to the movement so say alerting you might 00:18:40.369 --> 00:18:41.990 be spinning on the spot and you're just kind 00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:43.930 of spinning there there's yes you kind of have 00:18:43.930 --> 00:18:45.609 to plan where you're putting your feet but if 00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:47.390 that's something that you engage with all the 00:18:47.390 --> 00:18:50.490 time then that's not a huge amount of kind of 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:53.450 planning and organization but kind of organizing 00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:56.029 wise it might be sitting on a peanut ball and 00:18:56.029 --> 00:18:59.140 we've got targets on the wall And we're going 00:18:59.140 --> 00:19:01.559 to kind of hit those in a bit of a pattern if 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:03.960 you're kind of at that level to be able to be 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:06.140 working on, you know, remembering a pattern of 00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:09.319 different coloured spots. It could be we're going 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.140 to jump from one stepping stone to another. It 00:19:12.140 --> 00:19:15.599 could be that we've got, my other favourite one 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.720 is balloons filled with just a tiny little bit 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.400 of rice. And you could do some throwing and catching 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.539 with a balloon or even some batting with a balloon. 00:19:25.069 --> 00:19:28.289 That's really lovely because the rice in the 00:19:28.289 --> 00:19:31.849 balloon makes a lovely sound, but it also helps 00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:34.549 guide where the balloon is going a little bit. 00:19:34.630 --> 00:19:36.950 So if you've got those children that are still 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:39.269 working on their throwing and catching skills, 00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:42.130 the ability for them to have a little bit more 00:19:42.130 --> 00:19:44.250 time while they're waiting for the balloon to 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:45.849 come to them to be able to plan their movements 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:48.490 in order then to catch it or bat it works really 00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:50.069 well with a balloon if they're really struggling 00:19:50.069 --> 00:19:52.789 with throwing and catching with a ball. So that's 00:19:52.789 --> 00:19:55.980 another. organizing activity anything where you're 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:59.880 kind of pushing pulling carrying heavy work type 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:03.680 things so washing baskets garden tubs are brilliant 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:06.579 we do things like weighted skittles so again 00:20:06.579 --> 00:20:11.160 filling pot bottles up with rice lentils bird 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.380 seed and then throwing a ball at them and seeing 00:20:15.380 --> 00:20:17.720 how many you can knock down that kind of goes 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:23.259 within your organizing section coordination balance 00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:25.940 orientating their bodies that cross motor stuff 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.700 even yeah with your hands all of that yeah coordination 00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:35.079 kind of stuff it's not as um frantic and uh free 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.259 as the alerting stage is it there's a little 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:42.220 bit more planning motor planning yeah do you 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.599 sometimes find that i sometimes find that for 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.019 some of mine the alerting and then the organizing 00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:49.309 and the grounding is kind of a bit too separate 00:20:49.309 --> 00:20:51.210 I kind of need to fill in little activities in 00:20:51.210 --> 00:20:53.750 between them as well so sometimes I do a few 00:20:53.750 --> 00:20:56.329 activities in the organizing stage to kind of 00:20:56.329 --> 00:20:59.369 bring it down so we do the alerting which might 00:20:59.369 --> 00:21:03.150 be chasing for example and then they're really 00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:05.789 alert and then that first organizing would be 00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:10.549 maybe a circuit so like an obstacle course maybe 00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:12.910 because that's still lots of movement but it's 00:21:12.910 --> 00:21:15.630 not It's still quite heightened, but then we 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:16.910 couldn't go straight from that to grounding. 00:21:17.029 --> 00:21:20.390 So then we kind of might do some heavy work and 00:21:20.390 --> 00:21:22.210 then we might come in and do some puzzles or 00:21:22.210 --> 00:21:24.130 threading and then they're ready for grounding. 00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:27.089 It's almost like I kind of stretch that organizing 00:21:27.089 --> 00:21:32.049 stage into even more kind of STEM almost for 00:21:32.049 --> 00:21:35.170 some of mine. Yeah, I think it's finding what 00:21:35.170 --> 00:21:37.369 works for the group of children that you're working 00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:39.950 with. So I work a lot in specialist settings 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.950 where actually they're kind of adults. focused 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:47.789 activity is would be something that's threading 00:21:47.789 --> 00:21:50.609 or um you know a jigsaw puzzle or something like 00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:54.109 that so that in itself takes so much kind of 00:21:54.109 --> 00:21:56.569 almost brain power that you almost need to go 00:21:56.569 --> 00:21:58.630 through the alerting organizing calming to then 00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:01.990 get to that point whereas i also work across 00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:04.390 some mainstream settings where actually yeah 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:07.869 drawing for some children or coloring or you 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.430 know sitting doing a jigsaw puzzle is part of 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:14.569 that kind of organisation strategy. So it's really 00:22:14.569 --> 00:22:18.150 homing it into the kind of cohort and group of 00:22:18.150 --> 00:22:20.769 children that you're working with. And I think 00:22:20.769 --> 00:22:24.470 the carving then also is really dependent because 00:22:24.470 --> 00:22:27.150 I've got some children that really love doing 00:22:27.150 --> 00:22:29.869 yoga. Well, you'd think yoga kind of would fit, 00:22:29.950 --> 00:22:32.210 you know, maybe within your organisation because 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:34.809 that takes quite a lot of planning. But for them... 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.480 kind of the putting their body into familiar 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.539 positions and then really working on their breathing 00:22:40.539 --> 00:22:44.819 is really calming so and that's almost quite 00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.980 a you know yoga itself is quite a nice kind of 00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:49.299 transitional activity from that organizing into 00:22:49.299 --> 00:22:51.140 calming because you could do some of the kind 00:22:51.140 --> 00:22:53.940 of the poses and then actually you're doing the 00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.920 kind of the lying down closing eyes meditation 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.250 being still bit for part of your calming And 00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:02.369 again, here, the environment is really important. 00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:05.069 So with your calming, you're wanting to have 00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:07.029 your lights turned off. You're wanting to be 00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:09.630 talking. If you're talking at all, we're talking 00:23:09.630 --> 00:23:12.930 in single words and whispers. We're not having 00:23:12.930 --> 00:23:15.869 conversations within kind of the group that we're 00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:17.230 in. It's actually, you know, we're just being 00:23:17.230 --> 00:23:19.809 quiet. The lights are down. And if you're using 00:23:19.809 --> 00:23:22.470 smells and scents, you might then use a different 00:23:22.470 --> 00:23:25.569 scent for calming as you would do for alerting. 00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:29.519 So it's really thinking about. the whole sensory 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.400 environment rather than we're just going to do 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.289 some movement. Love that. I think that's really 00:23:35.289 --> 00:23:36.869 important and that is something that I miss. 00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:38.130 That's something that I'm definitely going to 00:23:38.130 --> 00:23:40.009 take from this conversation is not just doing 00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.890 the right activities, but also thinking about 00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:44.849 the whole environment. You know, yes, we might 00:23:44.849 --> 00:23:46.630 be calming, but if there's adults moving around 00:23:46.630 --> 00:23:48.890 and sorting bags and talking to each other, that's 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:50.690 not going to be the calming environment. So it's 00:23:50.690 --> 00:23:54.490 about a whole holistic view on what else is going 00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:57.450 on, isn't it? Yeah. And you really, really see 00:23:57.450 --> 00:24:00.210 a shift. You know, you might be doing a sensory 00:24:00.210 --> 00:24:03.599 circuit. And, you know, I appreciate that schools 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.740 are busy places and there is a lot to do. And, 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:09.599 you know, teachers and, you know, we're all juggling 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.819 lots of plates all at the same time. But the 00:24:12.819 --> 00:24:15.339 change in actually we're going to sit here and 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:17.160 we're going to do some calming whilst then the 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:19.400 other four members of staff are moving bags around 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:21.960 and chatting between themselves to actually we're 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.140 all going to sit and do this and the lights are 00:24:24.140 --> 00:24:26.859 going to be down. And if we have to speak, it's 00:24:26.859 --> 00:24:29.960 going to be in the smallest of whispers. The 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.859 difference then is. is massive and you'll you'll 00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:36.900 kind of reap those rewards yeah and then more 00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:39.079 regulated as well you know it's about correlation 00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.619 isn't it and we couldn't possibly regulate our 00:24:42.619 --> 00:24:44.920 children if we're not regulated so the fact that 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:47.400 my team are involved in the circuit is crucial 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.119 i think because then we're all regulated together 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.720 we're all focused we're bringing the whole room 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.839 down it's not about the children Yeah. Completely, 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.519 especially our children with SEND who are relying 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.519 on us to co -regulate them. If we're not, you 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.000 know, if we're still as adults busy moving around 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.740 and we're not kind of in that space with them 00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:10.500 and especially the calming section, well, all 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:11.980 of the sections, it's actually really lovely 00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:15.799 for building relationships and a tuning in and 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.039 finding out what works for that child. I suppose 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:21.779 the bonus with your organisation. section is 00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:24.140 that you're doing a bit of sneaky fine motor 00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:28.180 gross motor work too at the same time so if you're 00:25:28.180 --> 00:25:30.440 thinking about okay well we might be doing the 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.460 organizing part in different positions so we 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.619 might be making marks on a wall with some chalk 00:25:36.619 --> 00:25:39.099 or we might be hitting a target or we might be 00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:42.480 lying on our tommies to do a jigsaw puzzle Well, 00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:44.839 then you're working the core and your shoulder 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:46.900 stability, which is going to then have benefits 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.700 for your mark making and your handwriting and 00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:53.140 all your fine motor skills. So you're kind of 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:56.920 lots of benefits, you know, you're getting lots 00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.740 of benefits from doing kind of a set of activities 00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:01.819 that is going to then impact on their regulation, 00:26:01.819 --> 00:26:03.980 but also on their motor skills and their core 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:06.400 stability, which is going to help with the activities 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:07.759 that you're then going to want to be doing for 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.420 the rest of the day. motivation as well if it 00:26:10.420 --> 00:26:13.299 looks less like schoolwork like classwork if 00:26:13.299 --> 00:26:16.039 it's not at the table if it's on tummies on the 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:19.180 floor outside all of those kind of things I think 00:26:19.180 --> 00:26:21.660 children just be more motivated to do it because 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:24.960 it just looks more fun yeah it is and it's about 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.619 bringing the fun especially to those those kind 00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:31.140 of two bits and then You know, we're going into 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:34.039 school environments and children, you know, schools 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:36.859 are busy places. And especially for some of our 00:26:36.859 --> 00:26:39.440 children that are in mainstream settings that 00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:41.359 have got those sensory processing differences. 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:43.839 You know, I've been into a reception classroom 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:47.640 in the last few weeks. And my goodness, reception 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.900 classrooms are busy, busy, noisy places. But 00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:54.079 actually giving those children, especially within 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.720 the calming part, just like five minutes just 00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.759 to be. Actually, everyone's going to be quiet 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.059 and everyone's going to be still. And we're just 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.720 going to kind of focus on just having that time 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:08.880 to almost decompress is really important for 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.079 those children as well. So it's got a huge range 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.740 of benefits. You say it's not just for the send. 00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:17.519 It helps everybody. It supports everybody, doesn't 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.720 it? I suppose a question that I always get is 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:23.579 if a child is already in alert state. If they're 00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:26.859 already, say, climbing and jumping and jumping 00:27:26.859 --> 00:27:29.779 on others, they're clearly alert state. Is it 00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:33.559 still important to follow alerting, organising 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:36.740 or grounding or not? So if a child is already 00:27:36.740 --> 00:27:39.900 alert, my kind of first thought is we don't want 00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:42.579 to alert them anymore, especially if that's then 00:27:42.579 --> 00:27:46.490 a mismatch to the activities. that they should 00:27:46.490 --> 00:27:49.269 be or need to be or are expected to be engaged 00:27:49.269 --> 00:27:51.509 with. However, you've got some children that 00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:55.069 are so routine focused that actually if we suddenly 00:27:55.069 --> 00:27:57.009 decided that we're going to miss out the alert 00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:59.930 section today, that is going to cause more dysregulation. 00:28:01.190 --> 00:28:04.829 So for the children that will notice and get 00:28:04.829 --> 00:28:07.349 dysregulated if we've missed that whole stage 00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:10.609 of the sensory circuit out, I would say, right, 00:28:10.769 --> 00:28:13.000 we're going to... And this is why it's really 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.779 useful to have a bank of activities to choose 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:17.960 from. We're still going to do something alerting, 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.359 but it's going to be, as you talked about before, 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:24.579 that kind of joining, kind of conjoining section 00:28:24.579 --> 00:28:27.420 of that activity that's maybe got a little bit 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:30.339 of alerting, but maybe more organizing to it. 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:32.680 So say an obstacle course where we've got to 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:35.079 kind of slow down and think about what we're 00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:39.059 doing, or you do an alerting and it's tiny. It's 00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:42.619 literally like, you know. two minutes a minute 00:28:42.619 --> 00:28:44.680 and it's like okay we're done with that now if 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:47.039 you're using like a visual task board to support 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.420 with that kind of transition from one activity 00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:51.799 to another lots of the schools that I work on 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:55.400 with have got powerpoint so if they're kind of 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.059 trying to do it in the classroom and they've 00:28:57.059 --> 00:28:58.940 got the kind of the classroom space to do it 00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:02.019 they've got a powerpoint that they kind of show 00:29:02.019 --> 00:29:04.940 up to the whole class with symbols on and kind 00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:07.599 of visual support so the children know what section 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.559 of the sensory circuit they're doing And it might 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.440 be that actually if we've come in from break 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:16.839 time and we're all really quite alert, our alerting 00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:19.920 section is going to be super, super tiny today. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.940 And we're going to pick some things that are 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.640 maybe alerting, but have got more of an organisation 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.480 element to it. Because, yeah, if we're already 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:31.549 alert, then we don't need to be alerting. anymore 00:29:31.549 --> 00:29:33.430 yeah that makes sense and after playtime is a 00:29:33.430 --> 00:29:35.329 classic example lots of our children will have 00:29:35.329 --> 00:29:38.390 been running for ages all lunch times you've 00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.410 kind of done your alerting already and in fact 00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:44.109 even lining up and walking in could be your organizing 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:46.230 you might just need to do grounding so it's about 00:29:46.230 --> 00:29:48.109 thinking about the big picture about what their 00:29:48.109 --> 00:29:50.750 bodies have just been doing and what they actually 00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:54.289 what stage they're already at i suppose completely 00:29:54.289 --> 00:29:58.089 and i think it's matching that with the expectations 00:29:58.089 --> 00:30:00.230 from the for the children so if they know that 00:30:00.230 --> 00:30:01.769 they're doing a sensory circuit and they know 00:30:01.769 --> 00:30:05.170 they have to do kind of three activities if you 00:30:05.170 --> 00:30:09.430 like if yeah if we're already kind of alert it's 00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:11.470 like okay well we've we've done lots of running 00:30:11.470 --> 00:30:13.029 you know if you've got a child that you can have 00:30:13.029 --> 00:30:14.710 that conversation with we've done lots of running 00:30:14.710 --> 00:30:16.450 so we've done our alerting section what are we 00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:19.670 going to do now and i think for some of our children 00:30:19.670 --> 00:30:22.250 to kind of keep the the motivation and the engagement 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.299 mixing it up a little bit as well so not doing 00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:28.660 the same things every time we want our children 00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.339 to be have a wide range of sensory strategies 00:30:31.339 --> 00:30:35.859 that they can access so we need to be kind of 00:30:35.859 --> 00:30:37.940 trying these out and a sensory circuit is a really 00:30:37.940 --> 00:30:40.740 good place to try lots of different regulation 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:43.900 strategies or activities out with children to 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:46.059 find out what they like we're all individual 00:30:46.059 --> 00:30:48.539 are all our sensory systems are individual and 00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:50.460 what works for one isn't going to necessarily 00:30:50.460 --> 00:30:53.710 work for another So if we're changing it up and 00:30:53.710 --> 00:30:56.730 swapping it around, you can then find out what 00:30:56.730 --> 00:30:59.069 works for that individual child and help them 00:30:59.069 --> 00:31:01.049 develop a bank of strategies. Because what we 00:31:01.049 --> 00:31:03.029 want eventually is for children to be able to 00:31:03.029 --> 00:31:04.970 develop their own self -regulation strategies 00:31:04.970 --> 00:31:08.410 and find out what works for them. So it's about 00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:11.210 kind of using a different range, but also giving 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:13.430 children the choice. So I've got a young man 00:31:13.430 --> 00:31:15.569 that we've got like a bank of activities in each 00:31:15.569 --> 00:31:18.230 one, and he likes to feel like he's in control 00:31:18.230 --> 00:31:22.650 of what he's doing. doing so he will kind of 00:31:22.650 --> 00:31:25.029 choose and put on his sensory circuit board which 00:31:25.029 --> 00:31:27.650 activities he would like to do that day and that 00:31:27.650 --> 00:31:30.470 and that works for him whereas other times we 00:31:30.470 --> 00:31:33.650 kind of move move from kind of alert it into 00:31:33.650 --> 00:31:36.630 organizing into calming quite seamlessly almost 00:31:36.630 --> 00:31:39.849 within one activity so we'd got some blocks for 00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:41.869 example and and we were kind of throwing the 00:31:41.869 --> 00:31:44.450 blocks and and then crashing into them so that 00:31:44.450 --> 00:31:46.990 was kind of our alerting and then we built an 00:31:46.990 --> 00:31:49.450 obstacle course, which then turned into like 00:31:49.450 --> 00:31:52.230 a yoga bed. And then he lay down in his yoga 00:31:52.230 --> 00:31:54.230 bed and we covered him with blankets and he did 00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:57.650 his kind of calming section. And that was his 00:31:57.650 --> 00:32:00.630 sensory circuit done. But actually for him, what 00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:02.210 we were doing was playing with the blocks. It 00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:03.630 was just actually, we were playing with them 00:32:03.630 --> 00:32:05.650 in different ways to be able then to support 00:32:05.650 --> 00:32:08.710 his regulation. And after that, he went, transitioned 00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:11.170 back into class and sat and did some English 00:32:11.170 --> 00:32:14.029 work. So it's about finding what works for you. 00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:16.430 children that you're working with and what what 00:32:16.430 --> 00:32:19.700 kind of motivates them and makes them tick I 00:32:19.700 --> 00:32:21.960 do find for those children with a PDA profile, 00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:24.599 the more control and autonomy you can give them 00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:26.640 over the sensory circuit, the more successful 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.819 it's going to be. So yeah, maybe they choose 00:32:28.819 --> 00:32:30.640 what they do in their alerting, what they do 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.160 in their organising, what they do in their grounding. 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:34.740 So they've got some control over that. And maybe 00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:36.579 they decide when they're ready to move on as 00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:39.240 well. So there's less demands there. You're joining 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:41.019 and join the fun, I think is the most important 00:32:41.019 --> 00:32:43.299 thing. Join them, have it be a co -regulation 00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:45.599 rather than an instruction for them to do, I 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.279 think are great strategies for those kind of. 00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:51.140 children as well yeah and be prepared to get 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.680 involved and you know you do it too so we all 00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:57.579 did the um we all built the obstacle course and 00:32:57.579 --> 00:33:00.200 we all had to go and then you know he had his 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.839 yoga bed but i was lying down next to him with 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.400 my blanket over me and we were doing it together 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.200 so it was we were kind of meeting him where he 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.019 was at but we all joined in so it wasn't like 00:33:12.019 --> 00:33:13.740 well i'm the adult and i'm gonna sit here and 00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.299 tell you what to do and you're gonna do it it 00:33:16.299 --> 00:33:18.589 was actually we're all gonna do this together 00:33:18.589 --> 00:33:21.349 and we talked as we were doing it about how our 00:33:21.349 --> 00:33:24.069 bodies were feeling and that's the other really 00:33:24.069 --> 00:33:26.509 important part is if you've got children that 00:33:26.509 --> 00:33:30.349 can access that level of kind of communication 00:33:30.349 --> 00:33:34.710 whether it be through symbols or verbal language 00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:38.509 having a chat or making a comment about how your 00:33:38.509 --> 00:33:41.390 body feels in those different states and it's 00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:44.390 not linking that necessarily to emotions but 00:33:44.390 --> 00:33:46.970 it's thinking about actually oh i'm feeling like 00:33:46.970 --> 00:33:49.329 quite relaxed now i feel like i could go and 00:33:49.329 --> 00:33:52.849 sit and do something or or you know before you 00:33:52.849 --> 00:33:54.849 start my body feels like i need to move i'm going 00:33:54.849 --> 00:33:58.650 to do some movement and how that then feels so 00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:01.700 i think it's thinking You know, it's making those 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:04.319 links between the activities that we're doing 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.400 and then how that impacts on our bodies and how 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.860 it makes our bodies feel too. It's crucial, isn't 00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.300 it, for us to join in and be narrating in that 00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:13.920 way so that then, because ultimately we want 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.480 them to be independent adults as much as they 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.050 can be that regulate. and know this themselves 00:34:20.050 --> 00:34:22.929 we don't want them to be solely reliant on adults 00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:25.550 if that is possible and we want to build that 00:34:25.550 --> 00:34:27.909 understanding for them i suppose another question 00:34:27.909 --> 00:34:30.230 i always get similar to the alerting model they're 00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:32.889 kind of opposite we often have some clients quite 00:34:32.889 --> 00:34:36.170 sluggish and slow children that hard to get up 00:34:36.170 --> 00:34:38.869 and go their executive function you know is hard 00:34:38.869 --> 00:34:41.769 to get them to get up and go they're often in 00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:44.590 their chair and and quite slow not focused though 00:34:44.590 --> 00:34:47.860 not regular But in that kind of more sluggish 00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:50.679 kind of way. Head on the table, completely like, 00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:53.639 yes. Really fatigue, it seems. You know, their 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:57.780 body's heavy. Would you still do it in the order 00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:01.119 of alerting, organising and finishing with grounding? 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:02.619 Or would you do something different with these 00:35:02.619 --> 00:35:05.920 children? So it kind of almost in the flip reverse, 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:09.820 I would do more alerting with those children. 00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.519 and probably less kind of calming at the end. 00:35:13.579 --> 00:35:15.719 So your calming would almost be, right, okay, 00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:18.840 we might do some bubbles, for example. We might 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.659 blow some bubbles and I want you to blow them 00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:23.900 and then I want you to watch them. Okay, that's 00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:25.900 our calming done and we're going to move on to 00:35:25.900 --> 00:35:28.219 something else now. So it's about kind of catching 00:35:28.219 --> 00:35:31.239 them when they, so you want to do maybe more 00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:33.360 of that alerting and really thinking about that 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.739 whole sensory system alerting. So move, you know, 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:38.619 they probably don't want to get up and move. 00:35:39.230 --> 00:35:42.170 But actually, if you put some different music 00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.989 on or pool noodle drumming seems to be like magic 00:35:45.989 --> 00:35:48.630 for some of the kids that I work with. So even 00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:50.789 if, you know, they don't want to stand up and 00:35:50.789 --> 00:35:53.610 they're like, you know, a bit very, very low 00:35:53.610 --> 00:35:56.750 arousal levels. Actually, if you're doing Queen, 00:35:56.909 --> 00:36:00.090 we will rock you with some pool noodles and you're 00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:02.730 really banging them on the table and you're waving 00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:04.409 them in the air and you're kind of doing that 00:36:04.409 --> 00:36:08.170 very rhythmic movement. That seems to kind of 00:36:08.170 --> 00:36:10.710 wake them up without them having to get up and 00:36:10.710 --> 00:36:13.730 get moving in that way. Then your organizing 00:36:13.730 --> 00:36:17.110 section is probably, again, a little bit more 00:36:17.110 --> 00:36:20.289 on the alerting side of your organizing section. 00:36:20.469 --> 00:36:23.750 So you might be doing things with lights or kind 00:36:23.750 --> 00:36:26.230 of more movement based. And then your calming 00:36:26.230 --> 00:36:28.489 is kind of really short. And then we're going 00:36:28.489 --> 00:36:31.309 to move on because you don't want to spend. So 00:36:31.309 --> 00:36:34.690 long on kind of your organizing, calming, then 00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:36.809 they're kind of back down where they were again 00:36:36.809 --> 00:36:39.250 before they start. Right, because, yeah, you've 00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:41.789 undone all of your hard work with the alerting, 00:36:41.809 --> 00:36:45.030 haven't you, in that sense? Yes. I suppose with 00:36:45.030 --> 00:36:47.630 how long they should last as well, that's individualized 00:36:47.630 --> 00:36:50.630 too, isn't it? It's hard to say, isn't it? It's 00:36:50.630 --> 00:36:52.110 hard to answer that question. I find it really 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:55.329 difficult to answer, but it's kind of a gut sense 00:36:55.329 --> 00:36:57.230 when you're working with the child or with the 00:36:57.230 --> 00:36:59.449 group, you know, when they're ready to move on 00:36:59.449 --> 00:37:02.610 from each section. You can tell a child when 00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:04.789 they've done enough alerting, they will automatically 00:37:04.789 --> 00:37:07.909 start to wane. You can see that they, you know, 00:37:07.909 --> 00:37:10.289 any child, and I've got really busy alert children 00:37:10.289 --> 00:37:13.210 in my classroom, but even still, you can see 00:37:13.210 --> 00:37:16.389 a change in them from needing that alerting to 00:37:16.389 --> 00:37:19.949 actually. They start to come down on their own. 00:37:20.110 --> 00:37:21.909 They start to do it differently. And then it's 00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:24.269 time to move on. In an ideal world, if you have 00:37:24.269 --> 00:37:28.190 got free reign of how long this can take, I suppose, 00:37:28.250 --> 00:37:32.070 would there be a minimum time to do a sensory 00:37:32.070 --> 00:37:36.329 circuit in total to kind of really, you know, 00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:39.789 give it all? I think we tend to, it's really 00:37:39.789 --> 00:37:42.869 difficult because I suppose, more you're geared 00:37:42.869 --> 00:37:45.269 by what else is going on and how many of the 00:37:45.269 --> 00:37:47.969 plates that person is spinning at the one time. 00:37:48.070 --> 00:37:52.730 I think, you know, three minutes in each section 00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:55.869 is probably like your minimum. Yeah, I agree. 00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:59.469 I think with, I suppose, with some of the children 00:37:59.469 --> 00:38:02.869 that I work with, that they, and only a handful, 00:38:03.170 --> 00:38:06.090 will seek so much movement and then will just 00:38:06.090 --> 00:38:11.050 get so wired. that I suppose that's the section 00:38:11.050 --> 00:38:13.349 that I'm kind of a bit more wary about going 00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:17.010 on for longer periods of time. Because say if 00:38:17.010 --> 00:38:20.130 you're using a spinning chair, for example, and 00:38:20.130 --> 00:38:22.929 you've got a child spinning for like 10 minutes, 00:38:23.250 --> 00:38:26.250 they're either going to come off and feel a bit 00:38:26.250 --> 00:38:30.530 sick or they're going to be so wired because 00:38:30.530 --> 00:38:34.309 they've had all that rotatory vestibular input 00:38:34.309 --> 00:38:37.269 that really has kind of impacted on their nervous 00:38:37.269 --> 00:38:39.949 system. There's kind of a general rule that that 00:38:39.949 --> 00:38:41.909 kind of input lasts in your system for about 00:38:41.909 --> 00:38:44.610 eight hours. So if you've done lots of kind of 00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:46.769 changing of head position and spinning and moving 00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:49.769 around and loads of rough and tumble and you've 00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:52.329 got a child that will seek that out but will 00:38:52.329 --> 00:38:54.949 just keep seeking and just don't know when to 00:38:54.949 --> 00:38:58.070 stop and then will literally be bouncing off 00:38:58.070 --> 00:39:01.469 the walls, then they become kind of a... really 00:39:01.469 --> 00:39:04.150 dysregulated because their bodies are so wired 00:39:04.150 --> 00:39:05.849 and they almost don't know what to do with themselves 00:39:05.849 --> 00:39:10.349 that can last for a long time whereas your proprioceptive 00:39:10.349 --> 00:39:13.050 heavy work type input only really lasts for about 00:39:13.050 --> 00:39:15.949 two hours the kind of effect of that on the body 00:39:15.949 --> 00:39:21.030 so if you're trying to kind of balance or or 00:39:21.030 --> 00:39:23.550 yeah kind of tipping point against this rotary 00:39:23.550 --> 00:39:26.769 vestibular input that this children really really 00:39:26.769 --> 00:39:29.750 really wired because we've done like 15 minutes 00:39:29.750 --> 00:39:33.289 of alerting you're almost going to need 45 minutes 00:39:33.289 --> 00:39:37.190 of of kind of heavy work proprioceptive type 00:39:37.190 --> 00:39:40.349 activity to try and counter balance that yeah 00:39:40.349 --> 00:39:43.690 okay so i'd almost be saying actually for the 00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:46.570 alerting i'd be a little bit more wary on doing 00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:49.269 that for really extended periods of time if you're 00:39:49.269 --> 00:39:51.550 doing anything for an extended period of time 00:39:51.550 --> 00:39:54.690 it'd be your organizing section Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 00:39:54.869 --> 00:39:58.409 That makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Totally. 00:39:58.789 --> 00:40:00.929 And yeah, I didn't know about the whole eight 00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:03.809 hours thing. That's so interesting. Yeah. And 00:40:03.809 --> 00:40:05.750 then that can really impact on sleep. So if you're 00:40:05.750 --> 00:40:08.130 thinking about doing these at home, again, it's 00:40:08.130 --> 00:40:10.809 thinking about that alertness levels as an energy 00:40:10.809 --> 00:40:13.699 batch to what you're doing. So if you were going 00:40:13.699 --> 00:40:16.280 out to run a race and you were going out to do 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.940 a sprint, then my daughter swims competitively. 00:40:18.940 --> 00:40:21.980 So before a race, we really want her to be like 00:40:21.980 --> 00:40:24.679 highly alert. We want her to, you know, blood 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:28.269 pumping, heart beating. she's going to go but 00:40:28.269 --> 00:40:31.269 it takes her a good couple of hours to come down 00:40:31.269 --> 00:40:33.750 after a race before then she's going to sleep 00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:37.250 so if you've got a child that is seeking so much 00:40:37.250 --> 00:40:39.969 movement so much kind of what we call this rotary 00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:42.309 vestibular where there's so much kind of changes 00:40:42.309 --> 00:40:44.449 in direction they're hanging upside down they're 00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:47.329 spinning they're climbing and then crashing and 00:40:47.329 --> 00:40:50.000 you're doing that before they go to bed you're 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.360 going to massive energy mismatch them between 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.579 where their alertness levels are and where they 00:40:54.579 --> 00:40:57.099 need to be in order to settle to sleep so if 00:40:57.099 --> 00:41:00.539 you're doing sensory circuits towards or any 00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:02.900 sensory regulation activities before towards 00:41:02.900 --> 00:41:05.340 the end of the day you really want them to be 00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:07.940 organizing and calming rich and you want that 00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:11.360 alerting to be like as small as possible because 00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.690 with your organization as well you are hitting 00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:16.710 and you're feeding your proprioceptive sense 00:41:16.710 --> 00:41:19.210 and your proprioceptive sense is your organizing 00:41:19.210 --> 00:41:21.829 sense and that's what helps you kind of organize 00:41:21.829 --> 00:41:24.289 your body and get your your kind of upstairs 00:41:24.289 --> 00:41:26.510 brain and your downstairs brain talking to one 00:41:26.510 --> 00:41:30.070 another so yeah if you're hitting it with proprioception 00:41:30.070 --> 00:41:31.949 you're supporting that but if you're doing lots 00:41:31.949 --> 00:41:35.070 of alerting you're gonna have this real mismatch 00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:38.230 between where people need to be it makes perfect 00:41:38.230 --> 00:41:40.889 sense thank you so much this is definitely a 00:41:40.889 --> 00:41:43.500 podcast that i'm going to be sharing Again, in 00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:46.920 my DMs, you've just saved me so much time. For 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:49.079 these questions, I can just ping, have a listen 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:53.300 to this. Because so many people want to get it 00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:55.280 right. They hear the sensory circuit. They think, 00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.139 yeah, that's exactly what I need. Movement breaks 00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:00.019 aren't working as much as they could. You know, 00:42:00.019 --> 00:42:02.239 this is exactly what I need. This is the kind 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.800 of stuff we need to know. It's exactly there. 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.469 You know, the permission of... And advice on 00:42:07.469 --> 00:42:09.989 what you've given is so helpful. So we thank 00:42:09.989 --> 00:42:12.829 you so much for joining on this podcast, Lucy. 00:42:12.869 --> 00:42:14.590 I know it's going to be really helpful for so 00:42:14.590 --> 00:42:17.690 many people. No, thank you. And I think it's 00:42:17.690 --> 00:42:20.090 thinking as well about, we think about sensory 00:42:20.090 --> 00:42:22.829 circuits for kind of primary school children. 00:42:22.929 --> 00:42:25.130 And then it's thinking about, well, hey, I've 00:42:25.130 --> 00:42:28.130 got a teenager or a young person that, you know, 00:42:28.130 --> 00:42:30.610 how do we do that and how do we make that appropriate? 00:42:32.269 --> 00:42:34.949 looking at your joe wicks work it's looking at 00:42:34.949 --> 00:42:37.730 your gym equipment it's looking at you know weights 00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:40.730 and i suppose more age appropriate things in 00:42:40.730 --> 00:42:43.449 terms of adapting that if you've got the principles 00:42:43.449 --> 00:42:45.789 of okay well this is what this section means 00:42:45.789 --> 00:42:47.250 and this is what this section means and this 00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:49.190 is what we're aiming to get out of it you can 00:42:49.190 --> 00:42:51.730 really then try and adapt it for for children 00:42:51.730 --> 00:42:54.210 and young people of different ages and stages 00:42:54.210 --> 00:42:57.059 and abilities Yeah, absolutely. It is suitable 00:42:57.059 --> 00:43:00.340 for everybody. The concept is alerting, organizing, 00:43:00.460 --> 00:43:03.440 grounding. What that looks like is totally individualized. 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:05.920 And you can work, I would work with the young 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.420 person, the young adult on what that looks like 00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:10.760 for them. You know, I think that's, I think, 00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:12.599 yeah, I think it is suitable for everybody. And 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.280 your team as well, your team of adults. If you 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.119 work in an office, you know, if you're the boss 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:21.170 in an office, think about... this circuit as 00:43:21.170 --> 00:43:23.969 well you know it is really is useful for everybody 00:43:23.969 --> 00:43:26.210 that's doing a long sitting focusing activity 00:43:26.210 --> 00:43:31.409 isn't um yeah it isn't childish to do that regulated 00:43:31.409 --> 00:43:34.550 yeah i think that's great advice on on where 00:43:34.550 --> 00:43:36.909 to finish if people want to find out more about 00:43:36.909 --> 00:43:38.849 your practice especially if they're in the midlands 00:43:38.849 --> 00:43:40.730 area or just find out more about you and your 00:43:40.730 --> 00:43:43.389 work and um yeah visit your website where would 00:43:43.389 --> 00:43:47.070 they go for that Okay, so we're a really small 00:43:47.070 --> 00:43:49.070 team. There's me and about kind of six others 00:43:49.070 --> 00:43:51.989 that work across kind of West Midlands, Worcestershire, 00:43:52.250 --> 00:43:55.090 Dudley, Sandville, Birmingham. My website is 00:43:55.090 --> 00:44:01.130 www .lucybatesot .co .uk and we are also on Instagram 00:44:01.130 --> 00:44:05.869 and Facebook with if you put Lucy Bates Children's 00:44:05.869 --> 00:44:09.090 OT into either of those platforms, you'll be 00:44:09.090 --> 00:44:12.110 able to find us. amazing thank you so much lucy 00:44:12.110 --> 00:44:14.809 for joining um and thank you for sharing so much 00:44:14.809 --> 00:44:17.730 of your wisdom it's been really helpful thank 00:44:17.730 --> 00:44:19.510 you for inviting me i've really enjoyed it