WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.579 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.559 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.940 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.640 sponsor is Octopus Energy. 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Hello everybody and 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:10.299 welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My 00:01:10.299 --> 00:01:12.840 name is Jordan and today I am joined by Alicia 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.739 from Regulation Nation. Alicia is a mother of 00:01:15.739 --> 00:01:18.140 two gorgeous neurodivergent children and one 00:01:18.140 --> 00:01:21.180 who is a PDA -er and is autistic herself. She 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:23.680 knows firsthand the challenges and joys of experiencing 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.040 this world differently and the adjustments and 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:28.480 changes that need to be made to see everyone 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:32.060 thrive. And I am so excited to talk to her about 00:01:32.060 --> 00:01:35.159 regulation in the home today. Hello, Elise. Hi, 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:37.439 Jordan. Thanks so much for having me today. I'm 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:42.519 very excited to be here. I am. honored that you 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.859 have made your set your evening aside to record 00:01:45.859 --> 00:01:47.480 this podcast today because you're in australia 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.959 aren't you i am and i had to check with you whether 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.120 i had the time right that was my biggest concern 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:54.599 so i'm glad i'm here and we're getting it all 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:56.980 coming together you have absolutely smashed that 00:01:56.980 --> 00:02:01.280 because it is not easy to work out um let's talk 00:02:03.049 --> 00:02:05.549 family set up I suppose because that kind of 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:07.030 that's the reason I wanted you on this podcast 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:08.870 because not only do you understand this stuff 00:02:08.870 --> 00:02:11.090 from a professional point of view but you understand 00:02:11.090 --> 00:02:14.229 this firsthand in your home so yeah what does 00:02:14.229 --> 00:02:18.009 your family and home life look like yeah at the 00:02:18.009 --> 00:02:22.139 moment I have My kids are here seven nights in 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:24.139 a row and then they go to their dad's house. 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.280 So it's probably a bit different to lots of other 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:28.840 families and that's quite new for us. It used 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.039 to be shorter stops and starts and it's only 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.180 this year that we've moved to that. So I have 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:36.699 a beautiful just turned 11 year old and that's 00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:40.870 my Petey Heyer. I would describe him as someone 00:02:40.870 --> 00:02:44.569 who is always looking to be helpful. He's very 00:02:44.569 --> 00:02:48.009 big hearted. He picked up my wit and he's very 00:02:48.009 --> 00:02:51.610 quick witted. Sometimes it's dad jokes and sometimes 00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:54.370 it's insults, but they are just so good that 00:02:54.370 --> 00:02:57.389 you can't help laughing. And he is just a born 00:02:57.389 --> 00:03:00.789 leader. Like, yeah, I have no doubt he could 00:03:00.789 --> 00:03:03.629 argue his way through anything and also just, 00:03:03.810 --> 00:03:07.030 yeah, so, so great. My youngest is just about 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:11.580 to turn. eight and um he is a soccer fanatic 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:15.060 he he's like the energizer bunny just keeps going 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:17.500 going going until he's really tired and just 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:20.840 stops and he used to be the one that we like 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:24.879 be where is he and he'd be hiding in like a wardrobe 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.439 cupboard reading a book but we're calling out 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.199 hey where are you and he's just not saying anything 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:32.360 and we're all like oh my god he'd be the one 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.219 climbing runs on the drawers of the kitchen to 00:03:37.219 --> 00:03:39.659 get up to get the biscuits just no fear this 00:03:39.659 --> 00:03:43.080 kid like I remember those toddler days so well 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.080 and I'm really impressed that we've kept him 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.199 alive till he's eight he's mellowed a bit now 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:54.379 yeah so but yeah they're both just big -hearted 00:03:54.379 --> 00:03:57.680 fun loving little criminals and I just love them 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.819 to bits and they've certainly taught me a whole 00:04:00.819 --> 00:04:05.099 lot about regulation But authenticity, compassion, 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:11.800 patience, and I think how to survive on very 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:14.000 little sleep, which I don't do that well. But 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.120 I think, yeah, lots of things have changed since 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.279 they were little. And I think I've learned tools 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.990 and strategies for my own regulation. Yeah, they 00:04:23.990 --> 00:04:26.629 also made me a mum, which is one of the most 00:04:26.629 --> 00:04:30.670 precious gifts you can get. So I feel really 00:04:30.670 --> 00:04:33.529 incredibly grateful and lucky that I'm their 00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:38.189 mum. I love that the first thing you said to 00:04:38.189 --> 00:04:40.529 describe your PDA -er is big -hearted because 00:04:40.529 --> 00:04:42.730 I totally see that and I don't think it's spoken 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:46.290 about enough. They are so desperate to please 00:04:46.290 --> 00:04:52.310 and be loved and validated and I don't hear that 00:04:52.310 --> 00:04:56.990 enough. And often it is seen as demand avoidant, 00:04:56.990 --> 00:05:00.589 controlling, stubborn, all those kind of words. 00:05:00.689 --> 00:05:03.209 And honestly, I love that you started with big 00:05:03.209 --> 00:05:06.269 hearted because it is so true. All they want 00:05:06.269 --> 00:05:10.529 is validation and to be loved and respected and 00:05:10.529 --> 00:05:15.379 heard. Can we talk about that? Yeah. So my oldest, 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.560 he's called Edward, but we call him Ned. And 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.519 before we knew about PDA, we used to say that 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.860 Ned stood for not easily deterred. So that was 00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:28.639 a way, I guess, of understanding him and what 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:32.519 he needed before we knew PDA was a thing. I think 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:34.860 the other thing that I noticed, particularly 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:37.959 working with these kids, and my caseload is 80 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.759 % PDAers here in Melbourne. and their beautiful 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:46.399 families is that a lot of them really think that 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.839 they are bad kids because they've had so many 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:52.720 experiences where they are considered exactly 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.459 as you said stubborn you know they defy the rules 00:05:56.459 --> 00:05:58.800 they don't care about anybody but that's not 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:00.819 true at all they're really looking for a way 00:06:00.819 --> 00:06:03.500 to minimize their anxiety to feel safe to feel 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:08.079 secure to have co -regulation it's so big that 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:10.300 drive for co -regulation because of that nervous 00:06:10.300 --> 00:06:14.899 system disabilities. Yeah, I haven't met a PDA 00:06:14.899 --> 00:06:17.720 that isn't trying to be helpful in some way. 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:20.899 And I haven't met a PDA that isn't incredibly 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:25.500 funny, creative and yeah, really warm and big 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:28.750 hearted. I do have one little participant that 00:06:28.750 --> 00:06:31.490 I work with who every session finds a way to 00:06:31.490 --> 00:06:34.329 kill me within the play and it's very creative 00:06:34.329 --> 00:06:38.170 and fun. Yeah, I also have this other participant 00:06:38.170 --> 00:06:41.129 that I work with and I remember this session 00:06:41.129 --> 00:06:46.290 really well and we'd had this little win where 00:06:46.290 --> 00:06:49.470 it had taken about six months for me to have 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:52.550 an idea within the play and I did that thing 00:06:52.550 --> 00:06:55.230 that therapists do where we get excited and we're 00:06:55.230 --> 00:06:58.959 like, oh. yes go for more and then she clearly 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.000 said this she was five at the time and she said 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.699 let's not get ahead of ourselves and it was such 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:06.779 great feedback and they're so honest and you're 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:09.439 just like you know what you're right this we 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.600 can celebrate just this like this is it's enough 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:16.100 and sometimes we we need to check what the goalposts 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:18.899 are and not keep shifting them all the time for 00:07:18.899 --> 00:07:21.939 these kids and really celebrate that you know 00:07:21.939 --> 00:07:24.379 they're winning in so many different ways all 00:07:24.379 --> 00:07:27.839 the time but Again, I think when you work with 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:29.800 therapists, it's always like, okay, what's the 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:32.399 next goal? What's the next goal? And we don't 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.319 often sit enough to celebrate those wins. Yeah. 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:39.860 It's so beautiful. So you said 80 % of your participants 00:07:39.860 --> 00:07:44.540 are PDAers. How does you working as a professional 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:48.600 you in your business supporting families with 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:53.610 PDA differ from being mom? Because you're probably 00:07:53.610 --> 00:07:56.449 seeing similar things, but I can imagine it's 00:07:56.449 --> 00:07:59.449 a very different role. How do you navigate that? 00:08:00.149 --> 00:08:03.149 Well, I think that my experience, both, sorry, 00:08:03.230 --> 00:08:05.589 my cat's coming in, both as a parent and someone 00:08:05.589 --> 00:08:08.509 who works with PDAs is that the number one thing 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:13.310 parents really need to be is believed and understood 00:08:13.310 --> 00:08:17.290 and heard because so much of what happens with 00:08:17.290 --> 00:08:20.339 a PDA A lot of people, they just don't understand. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.160 They don't understand, you know, real PDA burnout 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:26.620 and what that looks like. They don't understand 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:29.160 because it's not just affecting that child. It 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.240 affects everyone in the family to varying degrees. 00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:38.360 Yeah, I think having someone to be able to hear 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.519 you and validate that experience and be able 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.230 to say, yeah you are doing everything that you 00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:47.990 can at this point in time but here's where I 00:08:47.990 --> 00:08:49.570 can help you with some different things maybe 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:51.809 you haven't thought about so and sometimes I 00:08:51.809 --> 00:08:54.509 think you know I have parents that come from 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:57.289 all different walks of life sometimes we also 00:08:57.289 --> 00:09:00.730 I know for myself that someone would give me 00:09:00.730 --> 00:09:03.289 permission I'm autistic so I sometimes have quite 00:09:03.289 --> 00:09:05.850 a rule -driven brain quite a concrete brain and 00:09:05.850 --> 00:09:09.049 someone would give me permission or I'd see someone 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:11.700 else doing it differently I'm like I can do that 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:15.120 so much more playfully. I can let go of all these 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.820 things that I think should be teachable moments 00:09:17.820 --> 00:09:20.600 that can just actually be genuine connection 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.980 and authentic connection and child -led connection. 00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:27.559 I do not need to have an agenda. Yes, I have 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:30.720 goals and they're way back in my brain somewhere, 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:33.460 but if I genuinely walk into that space and my 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:37.080 only goal is to be present and to witness this 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:40.009 child. and to create a space where they feel 00:09:40.009 --> 00:09:42.029 safe, then they're not doing that thing where 00:09:42.029 --> 00:09:44.110 they're hypervigilant and picking up on an agenda 00:09:44.110 --> 00:09:46.769 because there is none. The agenda is just I'm 00:09:46.769 --> 00:09:49.309 witnessing you. I'm present to what you're going 00:09:49.309 --> 00:09:53.490 through. And, yeah, I have strategies and tools 00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:56.909 where I'm modelling what I – I think I make it 00:09:56.909 --> 00:09:59.490 more about me rather than them because I feel 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:03.269 like that's the pressure. So let's say something's 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:06.669 – come out through the play where I would naturally 00:10:06.669 --> 00:10:09.929 react anxious then that's I'm saying oh I'm feeling 00:10:09.929 --> 00:10:13.230 a bit worried about this what do I do like just 00:10:13.230 --> 00:10:16.710 so we're working on problem solving and but I'm 00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:19.169 not saying okay let's take three deep breaths 00:10:19.169 --> 00:10:21.529 because that's going to help us now let's practice 00:10:21.529 --> 00:10:24.809 because it's far too direct and they need to 00:10:24.809 --> 00:10:27.470 be able to that's the other thing that these 00:10:27.470 --> 00:10:30.090 kids They show you. They show you with their 00:10:30.090 --> 00:10:32.690 bodies what they're gravitating to, how much 00:10:32.690 --> 00:10:35.470 intensity they need, how much frequency. You'll 00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:37.409 have the kids that are, you know, hanging upside 00:10:37.409 --> 00:10:39.570 down on the monkey bars and they need 20 minutes 00:10:39.570 --> 00:10:41.549 of that. And you'll have other kids who just 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:43.509 want to be wrapped up in a big heavy blanket. 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:45.669 But they gravitate to what they need. We just 00:10:45.669 --> 00:10:47.570 have to be able to see it and then be willing 00:10:47.570 --> 00:10:53.090 to create a space for that as well. Yeah, I agree. 00:10:53.330 --> 00:10:55.289 I feel like. collaboration helps with that as 00:10:55.289 --> 00:10:58.070 well working in a team whether that be with parents 00:10:58.070 --> 00:11:02.090 or other colleagues working in that team setting 00:11:02.090 --> 00:11:05.250 keeps me in that state otherwise it's so easy 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:07.889 to fall back on targets what I should be doing 00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:10.269 what's next you know and you're right kids can 00:11:10.269 --> 00:11:12.549 feed off that and that's a huge demand even if 00:11:12.549 --> 00:11:14.950 we're not saying it just us thinking it they 00:11:14.950 --> 00:11:17.870 can feel it they're incredibly intuitive PDAers 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:20.779 They're hypervigilant. They know when we have 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:23.659 an agenda. And I know my team keeps me grounded 00:11:23.659 --> 00:11:27.159 in that. They remind me the beauty in the now 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:29.539 and being present and celebrating that. And I 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:31.820 think without being part of that team in collaboration, 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:34.980 whether it's parents or colleagues or family 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:38.590 members. It would be so easy for me to fall back 00:11:38.590 --> 00:11:41.370 on what's next, what are we working on, you know, 00:11:41.370 --> 00:11:44.250 for my own validation, I guess, on success criteria. 00:11:44.470 --> 00:11:46.490 But it wouldn't be half as successful, you're 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:48.429 absolutely right, because they totally feed up 00:11:48.429 --> 00:11:50.830 on that. That is an absolute demand and they 00:11:50.830 --> 00:11:54.769 will reject that, quite rightly so as well. Yeah, 00:11:54.889 --> 00:11:59.129 without just celebrating the wins. Yeah. And 00:11:59.129 --> 00:12:01.509 I think the two things that I always keep in 00:12:01.509 --> 00:12:04.269 mind is just about how that prefrontal cortex. 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.360 develops and it's through relationship so if 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.100 the only thing I do is provide secure attachment 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:13.340 and relationship then I'm actually doing a huge 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:16.000 service and so I just keep that in my mind and 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.720 then anything else that happens after that is 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:21.659 a bonus I also regularly refer parents and teachers 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:24.700 to there's a developmental hierarchy triangle 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:28.379 and it has sort of all the sensory parts at the 00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:31.360 bottom for that bottom -up processing and so 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.100 parents will say oh but do I shouldn't I be working 00:12:34.100 --> 00:12:36.539 on pencil grasp or something? And I'm like, well, 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:39.139 yeah, you can be absolutely. But here's all the 00:12:39.139 --> 00:12:41.039 other things that are feeding into that. And 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.639 then they're like, so just going to the park 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:44.899 to do monkey bars is fine. I'm like, absolutely. 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.159 Like it's all working on shoulder stability, 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:50.440 which adds to the pencil grip in the long runs. 00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:54.620 Again, we have to get curious and creative and 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:58.500 find ways to. do this without it feeling particularly 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.580 for PDA is like it's all just sit down at a table 00:13:01.580 --> 00:13:04.419 and this is what we have to do yeah and that's 00:13:04.419 --> 00:13:06.659 what I love about my job every day is different 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:09.279 and there is so much creativity and playfulness 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:14.360 and um yeah and it's such it's such a joy when 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:19.940 you can see this young person who is you know, 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.440 really quite hypervigilant and anxious. And then 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.659 when that little giggle comes and it's so, you 00:13:25.659 --> 00:13:29.899 know, robust from just silliness, it's so beautiful 00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:32.679 as well. And I just, again, I don't think we 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:36.019 give laughter and whimsy enough credit for a 00:13:36.019 --> 00:13:38.720 regulation tool either. So that is such a good 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.960 point. And it's something that adults are particularly 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.879 rubbish at as a whole. And I think people that 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.100 are in that playfulness as a career occupational 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:48.659 therapist, speech and language therapist, a special 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.720 educator, teachers that are in that playfulness 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.539 mode all the time i think it's so healthy that 00:13:53.539 --> 00:13:57.559 we laugh we probably barely laugh all day our 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.559 job is really fun playful and i feel sorry for 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.240 adults who have jobs that aren't in playful jobs 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.000 because it is such a joy and it is such a great 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.320 regulation tool i've never felt worse after laughing 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:14.149 no But it is hard. I had one mum who, you know, 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:17.590 and it makes total sense. I'm currently in a 00:14:17.590 --> 00:14:20.250 degree of burnout and laughter feels really hard 00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:22.570 to find when you just feel like you can't get 00:14:22.570 --> 00:14:24.990 out of bed and you feel nauseous from being so 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:27.389 tired. Like I completely get it. And especially 00:14:27.389 --> 00:14:30.710 if you've got, you know, an anxious nervous system 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.389 buffering off an anxious nervous system, it is 00:14:33.389 --> 00:14:36.549 hard to find the laughter. Like that makes total 00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:40.000 sense. Yeah. And I think that's what the difference 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.659 between home and school is. Yes. Yeah. I can 00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:46.720 swap with my team when I need that break or that, 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:50.360 you know, that respite time. I can count down 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.200 to three o 'clock if it's been a hard day. I 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.220 can rest at the weekend. Parents don't have that. 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:57.419 And I think it's really important educators be 00:14:57.419 --> 00:15:01.090 acknowledged. and we don't judge on the differences 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:03.629 of what they do with the children how they work 00:15:03.629 --> 00:15:05.230 with the children because it is so different 00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:08.169 they are coming from a completely different place 00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:11.190 and maybe that's a good place to start us talking 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:14.250 about some activities or some kind of things 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:17.070 that we can do in the home that will support 00:15:17.070 --> 00:15:21.490 parents listening to maybe find ways of having 00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:23.909 that co -regulation regulating themselves and 00:15:23.909 --> 00:15:27.629 finding that joy again even through the burnout, 00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:33.269 which is such a big ask. Yeah. What does regulation 00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:35.610 look like in your home? I suppose it's a good 00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:39.870 place to start. Yeah, I think, again, it's very 00:15:39.870 --> 00:15:43.710 child -led. I mean, my kids, I guess, have had 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:46.750 a bonus of having a mum as an OT for their whole 00:15:46.750 --> 00:15:50.720 life. So particularly with my oldest. you know, 00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:53.580 at eight weeks of age, the world had overwhelmed 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:56.360 him. And I spent three days sitting in the dark 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:01.220 in a rocking chair, just rocking him until you 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:03.700 could just see his whole system kind of relax. 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:06.980 And I think I knew there were solutions because 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:09.740 of my work and I had colleagues that I could 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:11.940 talk to about it and bounce ideas off. But I 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.539 think again, If you don't have that community 00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:17.480 and not linked in with an OT yet, it can feel 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.799 really overwhelming. And again, you start to 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.059 get anxious and you think there's something really 00:16:22.059 --> 00:16:26.659 wrong. And yeah, so I think I feel incredibly 00:16:26.659 --> 00:16:29.220 lucky that I had the training that I had to be 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:34.860 able to do the things that I do. For me, I think 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:37.440 when they were little and the sleep deprivation, 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:43.299 everything was just chaos. I was definitely doing 00:16:43.299 --> 00:16:48.559 activities to help everyone regulate. I think 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.279 when things changed was when I understood that 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.679 the thing that had to be regulated the most was 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.700 me and I made me the focus rather than completely 00:16:57.700 --> 00:17:00.559 on them and just doing activities for them. And 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.480 by proxy, they would feel that I was more regulated 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.319 and then want to do what I wanted. what i was 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.640 doing sometimes as well the way that i talk sometimes 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.779 to parents about it is just so you have a format 00:17:13.779 --> 00:17:17.539 in your mind i say four aces and a joker so if 00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:21.099 you think about The ace of spades, that's our 00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:23.180 shovel, that's heavy, that's our proprioception. 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.380 So we're looking for activities where those joints 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.059 are getting what they need. Push, pull, carrying 00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:31.779 heavy things, being wrapped up in a blanket, 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:35.900 jumping, crashing. Wrestling is big in our house 00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:38.160 and it's a great one for the PDAs because you 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.059 can get in some of that pre -orchestrated leveling 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:44.019 and a lot of autonomy. So that's really great. 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.799 I love wrestling. So that's our spades. Then 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.099 I have Ace of Hearts. So Ace of Hearts is in 00:17:51.099 --> 00:17:54.240 the feels. And for me, that's music. So music 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.799 is something I use all the time in terms of regulation. 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:00.079 60 to 80 beats per minute is really kind of a 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.839 chill out. But with music, you have to meet kids 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.220 where they're at. This is sometimes where we 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.059 make this mistake. We're like, I'll just put 00:18:07.059 --> 00:18:10.960 on the Mozart, but the kids are up here. So we've 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.539 got to meet them where they're at. Um, so sometimes 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:16.240 we need that fast paced kind of dancing stuff. 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:18.880 Bring it down, down, down, down, down. Yeah. 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.500 So yeah, I'll use that. I will sometimes like 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.180 yoga chanting. I'll just put it on in the background. 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.900 And my kids are so used to hearing satanama. 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.640 They'll just say it without even knowing they're 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.839 saying it. And sometimes my son will be like, 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:36.269 please mom, not this again. really need this 00:18:36.269 --> 00:18:39.190 like my brain needs this and he'll be like okay 00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:41.569 because we talk a lot about everyone's needs 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:43.789 and what we um and so it'll go on and he'll be 00:18:43.789 --> 00:18:47.210 doing lego on the floor but he's like satanama 00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:49.750 so while he's doing it doesn't even know that 00:18:49.750 --> 00:18:52.289 it's this this unconscious entrainment of the 00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:54.490 brain to go with the rhythm and the beat and 00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:58.190 the repetition and it's just so powerful in terms 00:18:58.190 --> 00:19:00.730 of sort of heart rate breath rate so i use music 00:19:00.730 --> 00:19:05.079 all the time the ace of diamonds That's the sparkly 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.160 stuff that really, it's about you. That's about 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.099 the connection, the co -regulation, curiosity 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:15.039 and compassion, I feel like. Again, hard to do 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.079 when you're burnt out and you're starting to 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:20.240 resent what's happening, but they're really important. 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.380 Getting out in nature, if you can. So that's 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:25.619 the clubs, that's the tree. And then the joker 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.140 is the fun and the playfulness. So they're the 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:31.640 things that I use all the time. Rinse, wash and 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.079 repeat, really. Yeah, I love that. It's giving 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.400 structure to something probably that parents 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.180 are naturally already doing without even realising. 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.119 They probably feel like, oh, I just need to go 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.259 for a walk. It's validating, yeah, listen to 00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:46.980 your body. Yeah, that's exactly what you should 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:49.440 be doing. That is your regulation. Rather than 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.180 feeling guilty for that, like, oh, I should be 00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:53.160 supporting them. I should be helping them. It's 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.039 like, you are helping them. You're helping them 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.019 by helping yourself. Yeah. It's like the airplane 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:00.160 thing, right? Form on your own mask before you 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.660 help someone else. It's so true. You cannot regulate 00:20:02.660 --> 00:20:05.400 somebody else until you are regulated. And I 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.119 love that you've structured it in such a way 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.960 that is so flexible around each person, but yet 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.500 it ticks off these really fundamental things. 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.599 And yeah, I'm sure the children will naturally 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:17.440 be doing it. They'll be watching you. You're 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.539 modeling how to regulate when you're feeling 00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:21.240 that way, especially if you're voicing what you're 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.700 doing as well, making it really obvious and really 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:27.000 clear, narrating it, I suppose. Yeah. Then puts 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.579 no demand on them. Like you've got no expectations 00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:30.720 that they'll join you. They can do their own 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.339 thing, but you're narrating it. So they're building 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:36.180 their understanding of, oh, maybe if I do that, 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:38.180 if I feel like that, then that will help me. 00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:40.900 And without any demand, they've still got control, 00:20:41.019 --> 00:20:45.720 I suppose. Yeah, and one of my new favourites 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.859 that I do often that the kids have kind of picked 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:52.990 up on. they will now there's a couple of things 00:20:52.990 --> 00:20:55.690 that my kids will always ask for one is a game 00:20:55.690 --> 00:20:59.990 called stand up sit down so essentially my my 00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:02.750 big guy he's as big as me now but he'll sit on 00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:06.009 the couch or camp chair whatever it is and he 00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:08.250 gets me to sit on top of him so he's getting 00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:11.509 heaps of proprioception like that and so but 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:14.390 then also because he has PDA he gets that autonomy 00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:17.769 so he's like stand up sit down stand up Sit down. 00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:20.430 And so I'm like, no, I don't want to stand up 00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:23.130 again. You're making my, you know, you're hurting 00:21:23.130 --> 00:21:25.930 my butt. My legs are so sore. I can't keep doing 00:21:25.930 --> 00:21:28.009 this. And that's where the playfulness and the 00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:29.710 fun comes in. And there's a bit of resistance, 00:21:29.910 --> 00:21:32.230 but it's playful. And he's just laughing. And 00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:34.170 he's like, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit 00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:37.579 down. So it becomes a little game. we'll be at 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:39.279 soccer training. And he's like, do the stand 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.740 up, sit down. So again, he knows what his body's 00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:44.039 need. He's asking for what he can do. It's actually 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:45.880 helping me because I'm getting proprioception 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:47.900 as well. And we're laughing. So that's one of 00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:50.579 the ones he asks for all the time. Yeah. The 00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:55.079 other thing I think that works for us is we, 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.000 we have, we just have a whole, I have a whole 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.859 heap of equipment around the house anyway. So 00:22:00.859 --> 00:22:04.180 we, we have a little hammock. here that I just 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:06.799 turned around I can show you it's like a little 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.559 one like this but I also have nature then on 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.900 the opposite wall over here so I bring nature 00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:17.039 inside when we can't go out and it's not the 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.440 same obviously as you know nice nature but just 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.700 having the rocking being able to like look up 00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:25.660 at the beach and stuff it just The kids will 00:22:25.660 --> 00:22:28.660 gravitate to that and it's just, I don't even 00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:30.160 have to say, oh, it looks like you need a rock. 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:32.519 They just go because they've had that from such 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.539 a young age where I've sort of said, oh, it looks 00:22:34.539 --> 00:22:36.400 like your body needs to move and it's never been 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.240 a problem. It's just, that's just what your body 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:42.079 needs and we can get what that need met. So, 00:22:42.099 --> 00:22:46.019 yeah. I find I'm often rocking, especially in 00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:48.460 a hammock because it kind of holds you in such 00:22:48.460 --> 00:22:51.799 a beautiful hug -like way. Even my children that 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.119 can't. manage a hug from a person because it's 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.619 just far too much yes they get that hug sense 00:22:59.619 --> 00:23:03.339 from the hammock which is they find really regulating 00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:06.019 have you got any other resources like that that 00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:08.680 you have it around the home that you use often 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:12.250 that you find really helpful Every day we have 00:23:12.250 --> 00:23:15.809 what I'd call two boss chairs, which is two office 00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:18.410 chairs that are wheelie that you can spin around 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:20.769 in. They're just at our dining table. That's 00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:23.769 not even a thing. And they will fight over who 00:23:23.769 --> 00:23:26.509 gets which one because one has a slice in it 00:23:26.509 --> 00:23:30.549 from when there was a meltdown. So it just makes 00:23:30.549 --> 00:23:32.990 dinner time so much more enjoyable for everyone 00:23:32.990 --> 00:23:36.390 because they can just move. Also for the PDA. 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.660 what I do a process called backwards chaining 00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:44.059 so for instance if the goal is to go to the drawer 00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:46.460 to get the cutlery and I'm trying to scaffold 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:48.579 that I actually bring the cutlery to the table 00:23:48.579 --> 00:23:50.900 and then I'll slowly move it closer and closer 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:54.000 to the drawer so now he'll just scoot across 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.599 in the boss chair on the wheelie chair and then 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.259 come back with his knife and fork I know then 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:03.819 though when he does ask me to get it for him 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:05.859 that that's a sign of where his nervous system 00:24:05.859 --> 00:24:08.500 is at because I know that if he can do it for 00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:11.799 himself he would much prefer to do that and I 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:13.400 don't say hey have you got your knife and fork 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.519 he'll just scoot over and get it and come back 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:19.359 so it's just little ways that you can kind of 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.339 get some movement in and do that and with our 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:26.029 PDA like there's no plating of food it's like 00:24:26.029 --> 00:24:28.509 a little buffet and you just choose choose what 00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:31.170 you want as long as it's all options that people 00:24:31.170 --> 00:24:33.809 will eat and there's a good balance yeah i would 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:36.829 say with my kids still really like baths as well 00:24:36.829 --> 00:24:39.390 as a good way to wind down but not all kids are 00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:42.069 like that as well we do have a weighted blanket 00:24:42.069 --> 00:24:44.750 and my youngest really likes to lie on that on 00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:47.950 a big kind of squishy bean bag he'll do that 00:24:47.950 --> 00:24:50.809 while he's on his ipad so you kind of gives him 00:24:50.809 --> 00:24:53.869 a bit of grounding, bit of downtime as well. 00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:57.109 And I have this giant piece of Lycra that I just 00:24:57.109 --> 00:24:59.509 bought when they had a big sale at one of our 00:24:59.509 --> 00:25:02.109 shops here called Spotlight. It was like 50 % 00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:05.730 off and I can tie that around a table and create 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:08.589 a little cubby. You can just wrap them up in 00:25:08.589 --> 00:25:12.450 it. It's so versatile. And so I just use that. 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:16.269 quite often as well and I've got body socks and 00:25:16.269 --> 00:25:19.450 weighted balls lots of fidgets we just have a 00:25:19.450 --> 00:25:22.230 bowl of fidgets just they go get them as they 00:25:22.230 --> 00:25:25.329 need them yeah noise cancelling headphones we 00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:28.569 have a couple of pairs as well so yeah we just 00:25:28.569 --> 00:25:32.430 use pretty much everything we can that wouldn't 00:25:32.430 --> 00:25:36.029 be on the sensory like list I love that it's 00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.869 things like having a buffet out so that they 00:25:38.869 --> 00:25:40.369 can choose their meals they can listen to their 00:25:40.369 --> 00:25:43.329 body they know how like any home can do that 00:25:43.329 --> 00:25:47.650 like that's such a beautiful example of a regulating 00:25:47.650 --> 00:25:50.230 tool you know you're supporting them you're working 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:54.170 together it just tells them I believe you you 00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:57.089 listen to your body I believe that you understand 00:25:57.089 --> 00:25:59.690 your body like you're saying so much by just 00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:02.190 trusting them in that and I think that is so 00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:04.250 beautiful and then you said backward leaning 00:26:04.250 --> 00:26:07.089 as well which is so wonderful starting with the 00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:11.440 end goal and like and doing all the trips in 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.960 between and then you taking away a step and then 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:15.539 taking another way a step and then eventually 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.480 they are doing it all themselves but they've 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.240 they've done it in a way that you haven't given 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.500 them an instruction and told them to do it you've 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.359 just led them and guided them in that beautiful 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.140 long -term goal kind of way of yeah achieving 00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:32.339 that independence skill i mean ultimately pda 00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:35.819 is want to be independent and capable and to 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:38.279 do things themselves and i think that is so beautiful 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.160 and we should validate that in any way we can 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.940 i suppose there are there will be some things 00:26:43.940 --> 00:26:46.640 into this though that i think we have some things 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:49.640 just have to be done like i can't wait for them 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:51.859 to be ready to clean their teeth or ready to 00:26:51.859 --> 00:26:54.940 wash their hair or ready to leave for the school 00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:57.819 you know what how do you manage those kind of 00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:00.970 situations of things that they just have to happen 00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:03.849 and they have to happen now? Yeah, I think, again, 00:27:04.029 --> 00:27:08.549 it depends on where everyone's at. So I guess 00:27:08.549 --> 00:27:11.809 with school can't, for me, that's a nervous system 00:27:11.809 --> 00:27:15.289 state and and of itself. So we're at, you know, 00:27:15.289 --> 00:27:18.150 functional freeze. Why are we at functional freeze? 00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:21.789 There's actually not much I can do in terms of 00:27:21.789 --> 00:27:24.910 regulating once we've got to school can't because 00:27:24.910 --> 00:27:27.490 a lot of that has happened outside of this environment 00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:31.049 at home. So, again, I would be looking at the 00:27:31.049 --> 00:27:33.950 individual child and trying to figure out exactly 00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:36.150 where their nervous system is at and then be 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:39.210 able to put some things in place. With my kids, 00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:42.740 we have, again, used things that... particularly 00:27:42.740 --> 00:27:45.640 in the more so for bedtime when that little brain 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.059 is trying to unwind. So we've used EFT tapping 00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:51.920 before here. I find that really, it's quick, 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.440 portable. Again, I try to do these things that 00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:56.599 are quick and portable because parents don't 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.119 have time. And sometimes for kids, again, like 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.880 this is not for my PDA -er, but my youngest, 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.759 he really liked watching a video and having someone 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.819 show him how to do it and then repeating it all. 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:11.680 The other one I do is havening and a lot of my 00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:15.980 PDAs on my caseload are really into cats or pretend 00:28:15.980 --> 00:28:18.579 to be cats or have pet cats and so we call it 00:28:18.579 --> 00:28:22.279 kitty cat pats and so it's just this lovely slow 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:25.119 motion like this and if you're doing it in the 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:28.299 proper way you would have a mantra as well and 00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:31.980 it includes like this and then like this so really 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.160 lovely so You can do it to the child if they're 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.119 happy to, or they can do it for themselves. And 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:39.019 then you would say a mantra like, I am safe, 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.539 I am loved, I'm secure, or whatever they want 00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:44.119 to say that makes them feel fine and good and 00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:46.779 safe. And then you just kind of repeat that until 00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:49.519 you start to feel a little bit more grounded, 00:28:49.619 --> 00:28:51.759 regulated, safe. And so that's called havening. 00:28:51.819 --> 00:28:54.789 It's something that I... rely on myself when 00:28:54.789 --> 00:28:57.549 I can't get back to sleep but also my kids will 00:28:57.549 --> 00:29:00.369 ask for it can you do the kitty cat pats so use 00:29:00.369 --> 00:29:03.349 those as well it's portable it doesn't take very 00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:06.190 long you just kind of need to gather your yourself 00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:09.390 for a few moments and take some breaths and just 00:29:09.390 --> 00:29:11.630 sometimes that's all we need is just a few minutes 00:29:11.630 --> 00:29:15.019 to pause and Again, the kids see you doing something 00:29:15.019 --> 00:29:17.480 that helps and they're like, that's made mom 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.980 feel better or dad feel better. And maybe I'll 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:21.880 give that a go because they just feel it. They're 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.140 so intuitive. Teeth brushing is a bit of a weird 00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:28.599 one. So particularly for bedtime, I read this, 00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:31.119 I think it was an Instagram post from a psychologist 00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.509 who said sometimes for kids that. have a bit 00:29:34.509 --> 00:29:37.049 of an anxious attachment or separation issues. 00:29:37.490 --> 00:29:39.990 The last thing you do is brush your teeth before 00:29:39.990 --> 00:29:41.890 you go to bed. So it was more a psychological 00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:44.349 reason that they're finding it difficult. So 00:29:44.349 --> 00:29:46.829 we just moved brushing teeth into the bed and 00:29:46.829 --> 00:29:48.950 it was a lot more receptive for both of my kids 00:29:48.950 --> 00:29:51.710 doing that. Again, that was many years ago now. 00:29:51.890 --> 00:29:54.769 And sometimes they'll just be so tired as well 00:29:54.769 --> 00:29:56.910 that they're just, because they've held it together 00:29:56.910 --> 00:29:59.950 all day. Like this is a really important thing 00:29:59.950 --> 00:30:03.799 to remember is pick and choose. your timing like 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.240 if if you can only get one toothbrushing thing 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.480 in and it's not going to be at night because 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.140 they've they're at their limit then it's not 00:30:12.140 --> 00:30:14.440 going to be at night i don't i don't think we 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:19.079 can force kids to do things that to them it feels 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:21.960 noxious it feels like this is the most threatening 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.410 thing that could happen to them we they're You 00:30:25.410 --> 00:30:27.109 know, we've gone through a million different 00:30:27.109 --> 00:30:29.410 toothpaste flavors, as I'm sure many parents 00:30:29.410 --> 00:30:32.930 would have. Sometimes the little silicon finger 00:30:32.930 --> 00:30:35.789 brushes will allow kids to have more control 00:30:35.789 --> 00:30:39.170 and not gag. So sometimes they're a better option. 00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:41.730 Vibrating toothbrushes, some kids will gravitate 00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:44.890 to, and sometimes they can help with desensitization 00:30:44.890 --> 00:30:48.990 as well. Yeah, yeah. Teeth brushing is tricky. 00:30:49.210 --> 00:30:52.170 I have never had anyone, and it makes so much 00:30:52.170 --> 00:30:56.079 sense. put the two together that you're doing 00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.140 this really tricky sensory taste texture all 00:31:00.140 --> 00:31:03.220 this stuff after a full day of holding it together 00:31:03.220 --> 00:31:06.079 and before an evening that is often quite tricky 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.900 because yeah you're leaving your parent your 00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:13.420 safety sleep is tricky getting to sleep is tricky 00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:16.319 like the tooth brushing is like the worst time 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:19.539 in the evening and I've never put two and two 00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:24.750 together that is So interesting to me that, of 00:31:24.750 --> 00:31:27.029 course, that's going to be even more tricky to 00:31:27.029 --> 00:31:28.750 do that really tricky thing at that really tricky 00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:33.069 time. No wonder it causes so much anxiety. Also, 00:31:33.170 --> 00:31:34.869 parents are really tired as well. You've run 00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:37.609 out of all of your tricks and all of your energy 00:31:37.609 --> 00:31:40.450 and all of your like, could you just clean your 00:31:40.450 --> 00:31:44.470 teeth? No wonder it's often that really tricky 00:31:44.470 --> 00:31:46.730 sticking ground. I think it's really beautiful. 00:31:46.769 --> 00:31:48.970 One that you gave permission to just. Just do 00:31:48.970 --> 00:31:51.430 it at a different time, I think is a really beautiful 00:31:51.430 --> 00:31:54.650 and so easy support strategy for that. You know, 00:31:54.670 --> 00:31:55.990 maybe you do it straight after dinner, maybe 00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:57.470 you do it in the bath, maybe you do it in the 00:31:57.470 --> 00:32:00.549 morning instead, I think is beautiful. And yeah, 00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:02.990 why not? There's a couple of things that I didn't 00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:06.269 say. I would, and having, again, doing it since 00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:09.089 they're little, dimming lights, if you can, going 00:32:09.089 --> 00:32:11.490 for lamps, doing all that kind of stuff. And 00:32:11.490 --> 00:32:13.950 as a visual signal, I will get in my pajamas. 00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:17.170 It just says, hey, it's wind down time. This 00:32:17.170 --> 00:32:19.309 is what we're doing. Acts as a visual cue to 00:32:19.309 --> 00:32:21.930 my expectations of them without saying the expectation. 00:32:22.289 --> 00:32:25.750 I am very, again, fortunate that I do what I 00:32:25.750 --> 00:32:29.430 do. And so I've made the implicit explicit. I 00:32:29.430 --> 00:32:31.630 would be just commenting and saying, you're yawning 00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:35.390 a lot. It looks like your eyes are falling out 00:32:35.390 --> 00:32:37.809 of your head. I wonder what that could be like. 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.619 It seems like you're moving a lot slower. And 00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:43.319 my kids will now tell me they are tired. And 00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.640 that's a lucky thing that that happens. That 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.460 doesn't always happen if we have interoception 00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:49.359 issues and we don't recognize when we're too 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:53.039 tired. With PDAs, you know, we went through stages 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.920 where... he would want to sleep in different 00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.660 directions on the bed or in a different bed or 00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:01.599 we needed to have this certain blanket and there 00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:03.940 needed to be different amounts of novelty and 00:33:03.940 --> 00:33:07.779 things. That has changed randomly, not that randomly, 00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.980 but I'd been listening to this hypnosis app to 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:14.839 help me sleep and it's like a CBT script about... 00:33:15.210 --> 00:33:18.089 you know, handling stress and staying positive 00:33:18.089 --> 00:33:20.549 and, you know, you're going to cope, it's going 00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:22.970 to be okay. And I listened to that when I was 00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:25.529 pregnant and I thought, you know what, my ex 00:33:25.529 --> 00:33:27.750 -husband was away so I had my kids for nine days. 00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:29.470 I was like, I'm just going to play it for my 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.809 PDA when he's asleep. Like, what could happen? 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:36.109 It's fine. What's the worst that could happen? 00:33:36.269 --> 00:33:41.430 And it was actually phenomenal. So we used to 00:33:41.430 --> 00:33:43.710 not be able to go to Kmart, which is a big... 00:33:43.950 --> 00:33:45.970 you know, department store here, lots of stuff 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:49.289 without, you know, a Mexican standoff because 00:33:49.289 --> 00:33:51.250 we're not leaving till we get something, all 00:33:51.250 --> 00:33:54.809 these big things. And we just, after that, you 00:33:54.809 --> 00:33:57.609 know, two weeks, I could walk in, I could walk 00:33:57.609 --> 00:34:01.470 in. I was like, like, yeah, it didn't change 00:34:01.470 --> 00:34:05.369 his PDA. You know, he still is a PDA. He still 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:09.340 has nervous system responses to. those demands 00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:13.519 being placed on him but his his capacity to sit 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.480 with the discomfort a little bit more was actually 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.960 quite big and handle disappointment was a lot 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:24.659 bigger as well and yeah I yeah it has been a 00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:28.239 game changer so yeah that yes the other thing 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.670 is just that Things used to be so stressful. 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:34.070 And then again, we were incredibly blessed with 00:34:34.070 --> 00:34:36.650 a gorgeous support worker who came to work with 00:34:36.650 --> 00:34:40.070 us. And my ex -husband is a medical emergency 00:34:40.070 --> 00:34:43.590 doctor. So think COVID, think the stress of him 00:34:43.590 --> 00:34:46.489 being there, me stuck in a house with these kids. 00:34:46.510 --> 00:34:50.190 It was a lot. And we fortunately got funding 00:34:50.190 --> 00:34:54.130 for a support worker. And I was trepidatious. 00:34:54.130 --> 00:34:55.929 I was like, one more person, it's going to send 00:34:55.929 --> 00:34:59.030 it. round the bend I got him to come in and help 00:34:59.030 --> 00:35:02.329 and he was just so playful and I was like this 00:35:02.329 --> 00:35:05.030 is what's missing like the kids are anxious because 00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:07.750 I'm anxious and I'm exhausted and I yeah and 00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:10.989 so in bath times we I started a game called is 00:35:10.989 --> 00:35:14.630 it a hat and I would just put silly random things 00:35:14.630 --> 00:35:17.849 on my head like is it a hat and they'd be like 00:35:17.849 --> 00:35:20.869 that's not a hat And then, like, a toilet roll 00:35:20.869 --> 00:35:22.989 or whatever I could find. And so it was just 00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:26.250 discharging that last little bit of anxiety that 00:35:26.250 --> 00:35:28.869 was left from the day with that laughter and 00:35:28.869 --> 00:35:32.369 that silliness. And then they would, like, be 00:35:32.369 --> 00:35:35.610 much more willing to go to bed and happy to sort 00:35:35.610 --> 00:35:37.690 of do that. I was going to say that's so relationship 00:35:37.690 --> 00:35:40.329 -built. You could have been doing your best mumming 00:35:40.329 --> 00:35:43.289 all day and then all they remember is when you 00:35:43.289 --> 00:35:44.789 were really frustrated with them when they wouldn't 00:35:44.789 --> 00:35:46.289 go to bed or wouldn't clean their teeth. It's 00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:47.570 not fair, is it? That's not going to be their 00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:50.849 last moment. And then of the poor mums. I mean, 00:35:50.849 --> 00:35:53.750 God, you carry enough guilt as it is, which is 00:35:53.750 --> 00:35:56.590 wrongly placed, I must say. But then if that 00:35:56.590 --> 00:35:59.090 is their last thing, and then you've let yourself 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:00.389 down, you feel like you've let yourself down, 00:36:00.389 --> 00:36:02.150 even though you've been doing your best work 00:36:02.150 --> 00:36:05.289 all day, you've carried everything. You've carried 00:36:05.289 --> 00:36:08.670 the load, the emotional load of everything and 00:36:08.670 --> 00:36:12.369 everyone in your household. And then that last 00:36:12.369 --> 00:36:15.650 little thing, that's got to be in your head. 00:36:15.670 --> 00:36:17.550 Not all the amazing work you've done all day. 00:36:17.949 --> 00:36:21.659 Yeah. One of the other ones that I do often hear 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:24.960 is just speak in an accent because it'll get 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.739 them to laugh. And one of the ones is King Julian 00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:32.579 from Madagascar. So I'll be like, Maurice, get 00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:35.539 me my towel. I need my towel. And they'll be 00:36:35.539 --> 00:36:38.019 like, oh, that mom, she's at it again. Does that 00:36:38.019 --> 00:36:41.340 help with giving instructions to PDAs to make 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:45.070 that be kind of fun in that way? become an accent 00:36:45.070 --> 00:36:47.289 because then it's not mom asking me to do it 00:36:47.289 --> 00:36:50.670 it's king julian or you know it's sometimes it 00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:54.010 can help sometimes yeah it just again it depends 00:36:54.010 --> 00:36:57.829 on where that nervous system is at and you get 00:36:57.829 --> 00:37:00.969 good at going no humor is not going to work now 00:37:00.969 --> 00:37:03.769 like this just needs to be held and heard and 00:37:03.769 --> 00:37:06.429 all those sort of things yeah but yeah king julian's 00:37:06.429 --> 00:37:09.010 been working quite well for a while the other 00:37:09.010 --> 00:37:12.230 thing that i do often is i'll have fake tantrums 00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:15.449 and i'll be like like throwing the pillow off 00:37:15.449 --> 00:37:17.929 the bed and I say, I can't do this anymore. Like 00:37:17.929 --> 00:37:20.329 I'm too tired. And he'll just be looking at me 00:37:20.329 --> 00:37:23.170 laughing or shaking his head going, you're so 00:37:23.170 --> 00:37:25.550 ridiculous. You know, again, it just gets them 00:37:25.550 --> 00:37:29.010 laughing. And that's an outburst for you as well. 00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:32.869 That's a very safe outburst for a parent to actually 00:37:32.869 --> 00:37:35.550 have, because then you can kind of throw yourself 00:37:35.550 --> 00:37:37.389 around a little bit. You're grounded in that. 00:37:37.429 --> 00:37:39.050 You can throw things because you probably actually 00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:40.809 do want to throw things and scream a little bit, 00:37:40.829 --> 00:37:42.510 but you're not doing it in anger. You're doing 00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:45.090 it, no. enjoy but you're still releasing that 00:37:45.090 --> 00:37:48.389 energy aren't you yeah very good tactic yeah 00:37:48.389 --> 00:37:51.989 yeah that works well i used to say i used to 00:37:51.989 --> 00:37:54.750 say to my my pdf when he was little because he 00:37:54.750 --> 00:37:58.550 a very um rule policey if because of the anxiety 00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:00.809 and i'd say show me the rule book where does 00:38:00.809 --> 00:38:03.469 it say in there that this this is absolutely 00:38:03.469 --> 00:38:06.369 what we have to do and he'd be like it's here 00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:10.559 can you help me to see it like so again there's 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.780 playful ways to sort of question you know is 00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:16.039 this is this a fact or is this a tricky thought 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.519 that you're having and we can sit with the tricky 00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.780 thought but we might also be able to find a more 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.739 positive one that's actually more aligned and 00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:28.619 factual than what is going on so um yeah those 00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:33.079 yeah that was amazing you're full of such great 00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.159 advice there'll be lots of parents listening 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.690 and lots of parents will be totally relating 00:38:37.690 --> 00:38:40.670 to everything you are saying about what it's 00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:44.809 like to live and parent a PDA. What's something 00:38:44.809 --> 00:38:47.969 that you would want all of them to know or to 00:38:47.969 --> 00:38:52.570 hear? Yeah, I think one, I would say, trust your 00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:56.730 intuition about what they need and don't be afraid 00:38:56.730 --> 00:39:00.329 to ask for help. And if you feel like it's not 00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:03.650 the right help. keep going because you know I've 00:39:03.650 --> 00:39:06.690 got quite a few kids on my caseload who had seen 00:39:06.690 --> 00:39:10.769 other OTs previously and they just didn't they 00:39:10.769 --> 00:39:14.849 don't know about PDA or that's not their cup 00:39:14.849 --> 00:39:17.550 of tea I guess and so they're coming to me having 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:20.610 a not so great experience and then when they 00:39:20.610 --> 00:39:23.030 see that things can be playful and it can be 00:39:23.030 --> 00:39:25.409 child -led and they're like this is so different 00:39:25.409 --> 00:39:28.780 and But the thing is, even for the minority that 00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:31.239 aren't PDAs, I work in the same way anyway, because 00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:35.260 it's so empowering for children. And I think 00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:39.300 the things, like when I think back to when we 00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:43.239 were in school can't and some of the bigger aggressions 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:45.880 that were happening, we were thinking, oh, this 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:48.599 is just PDA. This is just PDA. And it actually 00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:51.199 wasn't. It was grief. So the other thing to remember 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.679 is it's not always PDA, but sometimes we think. 00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:59.179 It's all just nervous system disability and where 00:39:59.179 --> 00:40:02.119 they're at but they have other really valid feelings 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:05.139 too and we need to be looking out for some of 00:40:05.139 --> 00:40:08.980 those because I think as a group of children 00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:12.460 they do experience quite a bit of trauma as well 00:40:12.460 --> 00:40:15.980 because as a child you don't get a lot of autonomy 00:40:15.980 --> 00:40:20.280 and choice and even with really parents. that 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.679 are well -meaning and are doing their best, there 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:24.360 are things that are going to happen that, you 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:28.639 know, it's, I think, yeah, a really tricky thing. 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.420 And just that, you know, I think you can have, 00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.840 there's a lot of talk about radical acceptance 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:38.019 and I think that is very much needed as well. 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:42.019 But you also, like, this is just my personal 00:40:42.019 --> 00:40:45.119 values. I just have, I'm a very hopeful person 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:48.420 and I have a lot of gratitude and I think you 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:52.760 need. all three of those things you need to be 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.360 able to as we talked about before witness the 00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:59.500 small wins and be able to see yeah your your 00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:02.940 child as a whole person just as they are and 00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:06.559 know that they are growing and changing that 00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:08.820 neuroplasticity does exist it won't take away 00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:12.199 the PDA but nothing stays the same ever it'll 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:14.500 shift and it might be minute it might be minute 00:41:14.500 --> 00:41:18.099 but there will be a shift and a change As I said, 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.599 try and create community for yourself because 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:24.579 it can be so isolating if you're stuck in the 00:41:24.579 --> 00:41:28.039 house and just feeling like nobody understands 00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:33.820 this and you're alone. There are many families 00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:37.440 in exactly your situation and the more we can 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.199 take the shame away from what's going on and 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.559 talk about it because there's no possible way, 00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:47.309 I don't think, for... two nervous systems or 00:41:47.309 --> 00:41:50.010 three to be at such a heightened place buffering 00:41:50.010 --> 00:41:52.289 off each other all the time without one or more 00:41:52.289 --> 00:41:55.449 people going into burnout it's just it's not 00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:59.190 possible and yet you can be doing everything 00:41:59.190 --> 00:42:04.010 that you can at home and school might not be 00:42:04.010 --> 00:42:08.449 on board and It's a tricky path to walk and, 00:42:08.489 --> 00:42:10.969 yeah, trying to make those decisions as to, you 00:42:10.969 --> 00:42:12.989 know, whether you homeschool for a period of 00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:17.170 time and try and re -engage. It's really hard 00:42:17.170 --> 00:42:22.409 to find what works. But I think, yeah, it's, 00:42:22.409 --> 00:42:27.210 yeah. But, yeah. And I just respect PDA parents 00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:30.429 so much. Like I just, yeah, they're some of the 00:42:30.429 --> 00:42:33.329 most, yeah, really beautiful people. Yeah. And 00:42:33.329 --> 00:42:37.840 they wholeheartedly. believe and advocate for 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:43.539 their children so well so well yeah i think that's 00:42:43.539 --> 00:42:45.980 one thing that pda does really well is it actually 00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:49.780 nurtures such beautiful parenting like i have 00:42:49.780 --> 00:42:52.719 met so many wonderful parents of pda is that 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.239 just know their children so well advocate for 00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:58.760 their children so well manage their needs just 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:00.920 almost effortlessly like they might have never 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.309 been taught this stuff officially They just know 00:43:04.309 --> 00:43:08.489 how to say certain things, how to portray, you 00:43:08.489 --> 00:43:10.269 know, whatever it is they need to do. They just 00:43:10.269 --> 00:43:13.570 find these beautiful ways. And I'm constantly 00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:17.409 learning from the amazing parenting of PDAers. 00:43:17.469 --> 00:43:20.260 So, yeah, credit. If you're listening to this 00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:22.559 and you believe your child is a PDA, diagnosed 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.420 or not, we just think you're doing such an incredible 00:43:25.420 --> 00:43:27.500 job. And if you're listening to this and you're 00:43:27.500 --> 00:43:30.179 not sure if your child is or not, good PDA practice 00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:33.219 is just good practice. So whether you're a teacher 00:43:33.219 --> 00:43:35.639 or a parent, maybe try some of this stuff. Look 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:39.280 at the PDA Society. Look up, you know, good PDA 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:42.400 practice. It genuinely is good practice. It wouldn't 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.260 do any harm to any other child or student if 00:43:45.260 --> 00:43:47.559 you test it out. these things it just lessens 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.619 anxiety it gives them more autonomy um and it 00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:53.960 just makes it more fun to teach them parent them 00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:55.360 and all of those kind of things so it's just 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.699 good practice so if you're in doubt don't be 00:43:57.699 --> 00:44:00.320 in doubt of the strategies just test them out 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.980 and yeah you will see that kind of connection 00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:05.539 building that anxiety reduce for sure thank you 00:44:05.539 --> 00:44:07.800 so much alicia talking about community i think 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.360 social media is such a beautiful part of that 00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:13.230 now you know you might not have full understanding 00:44:13.230 --> 00:44:15.610 in your family or you might the school might 00:44:15.610 --> 00:44:19.010 not understand um you might not have a partner 00:44:19.010 --> 00:44:21.050 who really understands your children and it can 00:44:21.050 --> 00:44:23.989 be really isolating as you said but the beauty 00:44:23.989 --> 00:44:27.670 of social media is that people in the UK can 00:44:27.670 --> 00:44:30.670 follow you and people like you that are across 00:44:30.670 --> 00:44:33.309 the world that are living you know walking in 00:44:33.309 --> 00:44:36.030 their steps living there really similar life 00:44:36.030 --> 00:44:38.489 to them and giving really beautiful and honest 00:44:38.489 --> 00:44:41.630 an account of your life and i love your account 00:44:41.630 --> 00:44:44.429 for that it's regulation nation for those of 00:44:44.429 --> 00:44:46.789 you that want to go and follow on instagram where 00:44:46.789 --> 00:44:50.460 else can people find you Yeah, just Regulation 00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:53.039 Nation. I'm also on Facebook, but to be honest, 00:44:53.179 --> 00:44:56.760 I don't go there very often. I find Instagram's 00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.679 just easier format, but my business is super 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.659 sensational therapy services. So you will find 00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:05.280 me on Facebook if you would prefer more formal, 00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:07.539 but mostly everything happens through Regulation 00:45:07.539 --> 00:45:11.019 Nation. And I don't mind DMs. I get asked all 00:45:11.019 --> 00:45:13.119 kinds of questions and sometimes I can answer 00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:15.460 them. Sometimes I can't, but I don't at all mind. 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:18.139 Cause yeah, I am about building community. Yeah, 00:45:18.219 --> 00:45:20.460 absolutely. It's the only way and it's the beauty. 00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:22.639 It's the best thing about social media. I'll 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:24.980 also leave those links in the description below 00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:26.320 as well if you want to check those out. Thank 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:28.380 you so much for joining me today, Alicia. I have 00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:30.500 loved having this conversation. It's so important. 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:34.119 And I, for one, my homework, if you will, is 00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:36.739 to just find the silly. I think that is just 00:45:36.739 --> 00:45:41.219 so, such a cheap, easy, accessible tool that 00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:44.380 we've all got. And yeah, I just need to... I 00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:46.260 need to do it more. I need to find the silliness. 00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:48.579 And yeah, that's what I'm taking from this conversation. 00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:51.260 So thank you for that. No problem. You can find 00:45:51.260 --> 00:45:54.699 your own King Julian. You know it. I like to 00:45:54.699 --> 00:45:58.659 move it, move it. Yeah, perfect. Thanks so much.