Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's
sponsor is Octopus Energy. I've recently signed
up and have been totally won over by their mega
low rates and 15p per kilowatt buyback scheme
for any solar power we aren't using. In just
a few minutes, I'd put in all my details and
they'd do the switch from your current provider
for you. It could not be simpler. Don't take
it from me though, over 6 million homes have
made the sustainable switch. When you sign up
today using my code, we both get £50. It keeps
me creating this free content for you guys and
you get cheaper energy. Double win. Head to the
link in the description below to make the switch
today. Now to the episode. Hello everybody and
welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My
name is Jordan. Today I'm joined by Lenany from
Sensory Help Now. She is Dr. Lenany Brewer, is
a devoted occupational therapist with extensive
experience in helping children and young people
with sensory processing difficulties. She is
an advanced practitioner in sensory integration
and we're going to be talking about those sensory
differences today. Hello! Hi Jordan, thank you
for helping me. I am an OT and also a researcher.
I have done this job for over two decades. I
also have some sensory differences myself, so
this is my absolute life's work and life's passion.
You know, this is just something that I feel
really strongly about, that we should make the
world more accessible for individuals with sensory
differences. And also just the impact that sensory
differences can have on everyday life. And I
think it's not always understood properly. It
absolutely isn't. That's so interesting that
you say you've got your own sensory differences.
It happens a lot in special education too. Lots
of my team and loads of the teachers I know in
special education also have sensory differences.
I wonder what comes first though. And you can
say what happened to you. For me, I didn't realize
I had sensory differences until I was working
with my young people and doing my training. And
then I started to reflect on my own needs and
then I became aware of it. Was it the same for
you? So a bit different for me. So I was not
very coordinated at school, which is a bit problematic
because I grew up in the 80s in South Africa,
which is very sporty, very like got to make the
team. I hated team sports. I really struggled,
didn't really do those kind of things. And it
was just really unpleasant. And I... I mean,
I did learn about sensory integration when I
was at uni and I just was involved in a research
project there. So I'm working in a trust in London.
But I started doing some yoga and the proprioceptive
and vestibular input. I massively noticed that
my balance and coordination improved a lot. So
actually, as an adult, I have really been able
to do sports now on my own terms that I would
never have done before. The other thing is, so
when I was telling my mother about my work, apparently
she said when I was at... nursery the teachers
used to ring her and say that I refused to do
finger painting and I was being obstructed interesting
was actually important you know now that's just
avoidant you just didn't want to get messy and
you found that tap I know I know so it was those
are some of the examples but and I also see how
it fluctuates with stress you can manage really
well last year when I was preparing for my PhD
Viva I went through a phase where I couldn't
touch any food so it was just My stress levels
were so high that the only thing I could tolerate...
I know that it's really not very healthy, but
I could only like tolerate microwave meals where
I didn't have to touch any or prep anything because
I physically cannot stand the texture of food
prepping when I'm really stressed. How useful
is that, that you recognize that in yourself?
Because without having the knowledge that you've
got to recognize the why you're feeling like
that, you could have felt really disempowered
and just unsure or out of control, I suppose.
Whereas just knowing why in your own body, why
you're doing certain things, it kind of gives
you... gives you that empowerment to kind of
own that, I suppose. Absolutely. And I think
that's what I say to a lot of people. assessments
or, you know, people say, why, why would you
do a sensory assessment? Why would you have an
autism assessment? Why would you have an ADHD
assessment? But I, I also read a piece by the
model, Christine McGuinness earlier this week
on her Instagram, where she was saying that she
just thought she was weird. And then she had
her autism and her ADHD diagnosis. And she can
really like, she, she really feels like empowered.
She's, she can. You know, she recognizes who
she is. She feels at ease with herself because
before she just felt awkward. And I think there's
a lot to be said to that. So for everyone who's
criticizing, you know, what's the point of all
these assessments? There is a point because people,
it gives them a tool to recognize difficulties
and also for people to understand what's going
on. And I had a really interesting conversation
with a family last week that I was working with.
So the daughter was referred, but mom disclosed
that she had some difficulties herself. And I
was going through a sensory processing measure
questionnaire with the family for the daughter.
And I was asking about one of the questions was
around, does your child like tread heavy? Do
they stump their feet when they walk? I said,
they said, what does that mean? I said, and I
gave them an example. And I said, people who
don't, you know. a good sense of body awareness
to get some more proprioceptive feedback and
then the husband turned to the wife he said that's
why you walk like an elephant and anyway but
they laugh they all laugh and they're like wow
this is really this is really this is why does
that often happen when you're filling out forms
for the young people and then the actual parents
or carers are thinking that's me that's me It
does, actually. I have found that. So I've worked
in private practice in the NHS for, as I said,
I started practicing in 2000, which is, I feel
like, oh my goodness, it's a lifetime now. But
I do find that when you explain things to people,
then like the why. So there's two things. Parents
recognize some of these behaviors, but then also
that light bulb moment where someone's like,
that's why you do that. That's why you can't.
So if your wife has tactile issues don't leave
a bunch of rubbish in the sink just don't yeah
and that could really cause if it's not understood
it could cause those little arguments all the
time those misunderstandings because the person
that has the sensory processing difficulty isn't
meaning to do those things they genuinely struggle
with it is a physical thing it's a physical processing
difficulty that they have they can't change it
sometimes it's even subconscious they don't even
realize they're doing it And then the people
they're living with, whether it be a parent or
a child or a partner or whatever, are maybe getting
frustrated with that because they're not understanding
that they can't control it. They think it's purposeful
or lazy or any of those things. Executive function
is a perfect example. You know, my husband gets
really frustrated with me because I just really
struggle sometimes to get up and go. Hyper focus
is another one. He really struggles to get through
to me if I'm into something. It's almost like
he just doesn't exist and I could be anywhere
else in the world. And it genuinely is. and on
purpose I really really really really cannot
control these things I wish I could it would
make life so much easier but through understanding
my own needs he breeds more understanding of
from his point of view as well of knowing how
to communicate with me knowing what support systems
I need in order to kind of navigate that together
without that it would just be constant arguments
Absolutely. And for your listeners, the teachers
who have these children and young people in their
classes, they really don't mean to. So this is
a funny hyper -focus story for you. I'll never
forget this. This is one of my top skills in
life, hyper -focus. And I was nine years old.
It was before the... time where you moved to
different classrooms. So you were still in the
same classroom, but when the lesson changed,
I remember this like yesterday. And one of the
few memories of my childhood that I remember
in every single detail where I finished my maths
work early, asked to the teacher, I said, I'm
finished. There was still like another 25 minutes
or so to go at least because it was only halfway
through the lesson. And he just said, okay, go
pick a shelf, go to the bookshelf, pick a book.
I did. I, so I have. One of the things that I
absolutely love is when I read a book, I probably
simply engross myself more than a movie because
I actually create the characters in my head.
I feel like I've actually lived the story. So
I really get into it. I feel like sometimes I
would feel like I've seen the film, but I've
actually just read the book. And I was there
nine years old reading this book. And then with
a jolt. an hour later the teacher yelled at me
because the lesson had then actually gone into
another lesson I didn't know what on earth was
going on and and I didn't even know like I had
no like I got so into this book I had no idea
that we were not having maths anymore we were
doing completely different and I just thought
I'm blind I know I know and I just thought hang
on nine years old just you know no need to yell
just check in and you're clearly not doing it
to be naughty yeah and I think that's a really
great point isn't it these these children in
our classes even though it might look sometimes
like hurting behaviors sometimes it might look
inappropriate sometimes it might look rude or
lazy and all of those things it really really
isn't they're really just trying their best to
navigate the world and meet their sensory needs
in their bodies right Absolutely. And the other
thing I have seen so often from observing PE
lessons in schools is children with dyspraxia
and sensory difficulties sit in line, follow
the instructions. You're not following the instructions.
It's like, yes, I know what the instructions
are, but my body doesn't know how to do that.
So in that situation then, I suppose, what could
a teacher do differently in order to include
the children with dyspraxia and sensory processing
difficulties a bit better, really? So I think
if you know, if you recognize that somebody has
movement difficulties, there's a few things I
would recommend for PE. I would think about being
flexible about how the activity is done. So,
you know, for example, let's say throwing a beanbag,
you know, make it a bit close to make the targets
a bit different. Not everyone has to throw the
same distance. Or if you are aware that a child's
consistently not being picked. for the teen by
their peers because children notice these things
before adults do often. Just make sure that child's
included and just a bit of empathy really and
being aware that actually they can't do it. Let's
try something different. You can't throw the
ball, maybe roll it or can't play tennis, try.
So what we did is I was working at a school in
North London and I introduced these. Oh, my goodness.
Do you remember the shop? Who was? That was the
thing back then on the Fenchley Road. It doesn't
exist anymore. They had these little bats with
Velcro where the ball could stick to it. So I
took that into the school and I said, why don't
you try that? Because he's not going to miss
the Velcro. The Velcro is going to stick to the
bat. And that was a great success. So those are
just little things that can make the child not
feel like a failure. Yes. adjusting your expectations
or adjusting the activity or maybe adjusting
the environment maybe it's the lights or the
sounds or echo of the hall maybe you do it somewhere
else there's lots of different adjustments that
can be made is that I think teachers are very
good at making adjustments as far as learning
lessons go those are often very differentiated
very well adjustments in our expectations for
behavior isn't so good I think as a whole we
expect everybody to be able to sit the same look
the same listen the same wait the same and actually
that needs to be just as differentiated as the
learning doesn't it absolutely and I think that
as we said before you know it's not on purpose
you don't choose to be like this this is really
something you can't control so it's It's just
being mindful, especially with, you know, things
like Christmas and Christmas plays and all those
things. All those changes to the routine. I mean,
it's the awful time of year, December, isn't
it? I mean, it's great for a lot of people, but
90 % of autistic children have sensory differences.
And in the general population, that's estimated
to be 5 % to 16%. So you could say that you should
allow for... more than a tenth of the children
in your class having sensory differences that
would impact on things. So I think just being
mindful of loud and unexpected noises. So for
Christmas time, you can have cards explaining
what's going to happen. You can warn people of
noises. Sometimes pre -empting is a big part
of it. If it's unexpected, that could... cause
real difficulties so just just being mindful
really that there are people in your class or
in your school with those differences and just
think about that And the example you gave is
a perfect example of you can give warning and
it makes no difference to anybody else. Those
that don't need the warning won't be worse off
because you've given a warning. In fact, everybody
wins by being given that preemptive warning that
something's about to happen. Using visuals, nobody
loses when you're using visuals or adaptive equipment,
you know, if they're on offer. Again, they're
not going to hurt anybody. It's not going to
set anybody back by having those available. It
just helps the ones that need it. Absolutely.
And just the other thing that's come up a lot
recently in parent consultations is school rules
around going to the bathroom for young secondary
school kids. Because it's like, oh, they can't
go to the loo, they're disruptive. And some schools
even have cards, you know, and if you use your
cards, you can't go anymore. And actually, for
some children with sensory differences. It's
knowing that they can go when they want actually
will reduce the need. But if you tell them they
can't go, it actually increases their anxiety
and they'll probably need to go more. That's
so interesting. That's so interesting. Would
these children be using the toilet as a need
for a movement break or interoception needs?
Maybe they're less aware of when they need to
go. What kind of is happening there? Why might
they need to go a bit more? It's a combination.
The people I've worked with, it's some interceptive,
some needing the movement break. If it's a movement
break, I have spoken with a parent recently who's
managed to finally get her school to have a rota
for a class helper. The teachers noticed that
the week that this child was the class helper,
her behavior, I hate to say the word behavior,
but it's like it was really positive. The child
responded really well. So they now actually realize
they still need to have a helper. They can't
have her as a helper every week because they
need to give everyone in the class a chance.
But they're really actually thinking of ways
to get her to do more things. She likes that
sense of responsibility, sense of ownership,
maybe sense of control. It probably boosts her
self -esteem. It gives her movement breaks. It's
probably a bit of weight because she's probably
carrying things around. Exactly. And that's what
we thought. It's all of that. And that's nice.
And it's not disruptive. And what's interesting
is if you do give children that movement break,
they are actually more productive when they get
back to their desk. Because sometimes people
think, oh, no, I can't do that because he's behind
or he's a bit slow. But actually, so this particular
child, funny enough, they were always saying
in earlier years, she's not finishing her work.
She's not finishing her work. And actually, since
they started to implement some of these sensory
strategies, which are actually just, you know.
They're just, I like to call them common sense
strategies in a way. because we're in that bubble
right but for people that don't know this stuff
maybe it isn't that obvious maybe you know you
need to be talking stuff so that's what this
podcast is about anyway so that that was just
something that made a massive change it's almost
like so I would almost say put your fears aside
like thinking it's not going to be the end of
the world if you do your PE session a bit differently
it's not going to be the end of the world if
The child who doesn't like getting glue or paint
on their hands does a different craft activity.
It's going to be fine. Nothing's going to, you
know, the ceiling's not going to fall in. Everyone's
going to have a great day. And also in terms
of lunch, maybe think about the child who can't
handle the dinner hall. Maybe send them in a
minute or two before the others so they can carry
the tray, get their food before it gets absolutely
mental. Yeah. And also if the noise slowly builds
and the busyness slowly builds when you're already
in place, it can be a lot less overwhelming than
walking in and it's already loud and busy and
echoey and all of those things, can't it? Absolutely.
And one of the problems is that children with
sensory differences or motor difficulties are
often, you know, sometimes they're the last to
get out of the class for various reasons. And
actually, as you say, if they get in first, that
will make a huge difference. Yeah. And if then,
yes, it might mean they missed the last minute
of the lesson, but then if they're regulated
then through lunch and it means that they'll
be more regulated for the afternoon lesson and
they've only missed a minute. It's not a big
ask, is it? No, absolutely. And I think in the
end of the day, if you have a calmer child who's
regulated and able to focus and feels good in
themselves for the rest of the day, then that's
a win in my opinion. Yeah, absolutely. I think
we can all agree there. So we've spoken about
school a little bit and how to help children
at school. There's also lots of things that parents
will be finding at home that would be listening.
Things like meeting basic needs, hygiene needs,
for example, can be really difficult for these
sensory avoidant children. What kind of strategies
would you suggest there around teeth brushing,
for example? So I'm not going to go into the
full kind of breakdown of that. On our Sensory
Help Now website, so we are a not -for -profit
site. We have some free courses on toothbrushing,
getting dressed, getting squeaky clean. But one
of the things, you know, some of the obvious
things is looking at oral sensitivity, what kind
of toothbrush, what kind of toothpaste. For some
people, it could be that I worked with someone,
they couldn't cope with mint toothpaste, but
then you just change to a different toothpaste.
um and that made all it's about individualizing
it isn't it an experiment that's brilliant that
you've got those resources though i know so many
parents and teachers that would love those resources
we're doing an all about me topic uh this term
and that would be perfect so i will definitely
check that out and the other thing as well is
that i say to parents like they are so what is
the one magic thing we can do every day and i
i say proprioception heavy work Because your
proprioceptor system is the magic tool that overrides
all your senses when you're feeling stressed
and overwhelmed. So if you're struggling to get
dressed in the morning, struggling with personal
care, you know, starting with some wall press
-ups, chair, you know, doing some deep pressure
activities before can really help regulate your
nervous system. And then, you know, it's a bit
easier to face some of these tasks. So you said
wall press -ups, chair press -ups. Is there anything
else that we could do that? Doesn't really need
many resources that they might be able to do.
Yoga, downward dog. We've got some, anything
that's really heavy work for your muscles. I
suggested to another parent, they have a monkey
bar in the hallway, just hanging off and just
doing some hanging on the bar. Really nice proprioceptive
feedback. If you're swinging, it gives the vestibular
linear input. That's really calming and organizing.
But in terms of no money and no resources, you
know, something that's so pretty free is any
pressure that, you know, that gives feedback
to the joints, pushing, pulling, carrying. So
getting your child to carry the laundry basket
downstairs, moving the furniture around if you
need a sofa move, all of those things can be
helpful. And that push, that push motion is really
great, isn't it? And that's why I always say
if you're at the airport and you're about to
go on a long flight, get your child to drag the
suitcase. It's actually really good. It will
help settle their nervous system. That's a great
tip. I love that. And that's really great to
know that you can't ever get too much of it.
No. You can't over -stimulate it with proprioception.
Absolutely. It's safe for everyone and you can't,
you know. It's really something that some people
respond so well to. I remember once I was working
in a clinic in London and a family that I worked
with were about to get on a long -haul flight
to the US. So they stopped by the clinic en route
to Heathrow and they just did an hour of jumping
and crashing and lots of proprioceptive exercise
and lots of deep pressure. And mom sent me an
email when they got to the other side to say
it was the best flight they ever had. I bet it
was. And great before bedtime as well. I can
imagine if you've got children that struggle
to settle for bed, you know, doing that. It feels
counterproductive getting them to do lots of
pushing and press ups and monkey bars before
bed. But it really does calm, doesn't it? Absolutely.
And then there's other things as well, you know,
depending on the person's sensory preferences.
Obviously, some children do better with lights
that are dim and calm and other, you know. That's
where you start working with somebody and really
ask them what their sensory preferences are.
Some children, you know, they are very oversensitive
when it comes to specific tastes. And then you
get the other extreme where children don't register
enough sensory inputs. Everything tastes bland
and boring to them. I know, I know. And this
is really one for you in the classroom to think
about as well. There are children who are under
-responsive to sensory input. They're the ones
who might appear like slumping on their chair,
not being engaged. They might look completely
bored, but there's just not enough stimuli in
the environment to get them going. And, you know,
for those children as well, jumping, moving.
you know, having a bit of a shake about doing
something interesting can get their senses back
on track for them to have enough sensory stimuli
so they can engage as well. It's about being
really vigilant, isn't it? And really looking
around the room, you know, and being curious.
Or they're jumping and fidgeting, maybe they
need this. They're slumping, maybe they need
this. And kind of working it out that way. But
if in doubt, deep pressure. And yes, yeah, absolutely.
And also just thinking about the child's personality
and their interests as well. And that's another
kind of fun way to incorporate their sensory
kind of needs. I like something that works always
really well is thinking of, you know, you've
got somebody who loves racing cars and I love
trade and kind of, I always kind of theme my
sensory activities around that. And our scooter
boards, you cannot do enough with scooter boards
if you're a PE teacher. Yeah, we have lots of
fun with scooter boards. We're scooter boarding
between every lesson, actually. It's lovely vibration,
I find. So we do it outside on the playground
on the concrete and we have a skipping rope attached
to the front of it through the hole. So we're
pulling the scooter board along and they're sitting
on it. And not only are they getting the vestibular
because we're going around in circles, but they're
also getting the vibration as well. And then
obviously visual because they're outside and
we've got the dappled light. So there's so many
different things, especially for those seeking
children that have a bigger cup to fill in to
meet their sensory needs. Scooter boards are
brilliant. And those with purified motor control
going prone on the scooter board on their tummies
and building that shoulder strength and stability
because... You're not ready for writing if you
don't have, you know, your upper body strength,
right? And the scooter board's great for that.
Absolutely. And then those that feel overwhelmed,
so those that aren't seeking those things at
all, they are completely over -responsive to
these things. I wouldn't use a scooter board.
They would even struggle to maybe even bend down
to get that. You know, their vestibular, they
don't like bending down. They don't like sitting
back. They're really hesitant to do that. They're
hesitant to... Touch messy things. Maybe they're
avoidant of the lights. Maybe, yeah, avoidant
of mess. These kind of children, it looks completely
different, doesn't it? And then you need to do
lots of different things with those. With those
children, though, you could try and get them
to pull one of their friends. Love that. Yeah.
Why not work together? I love that. Absolutely.
The whole thing about sensory differences is
we're all different and we all process sensory
information differently. So that's the thing
with sensory strategies. It's definitely not
one size fits all. And that's why it's really
kind of, I would say the first step is to look
out for the signs, the person that you're working
with or your family member, and then just really
working with what they love and what their preferences
are. And that will make all the difference. I
love that. Because we all have senses, don't
we? And we're all registering these all of the
time. And we're all moderating our own bodies
in order to meet these. Some of us are doing
it better than others. What is the threshold
of that? If we're all sensory beings, how do
we know if what we're experiencing is just our
body moderating itself or us understanding that
and moderating or it being a sensory difference?
So for me, I always, I kind of define that we
all process sensory information differently.
it becomes problematic when that sensory difference
impacts on your ability to engage in an everyday
activity or engage in something that you have
to do or want to do so for example I worked with
a client last week it's going to be her birthday
in November every year she has breaks a mental
breakdown on her birthday the parents say she
wants this party she has all these ideas and
then every day birthday party all ends in tears
because it's too much so for some children they
can get overwhelmed anxious but it's not gonna
you know cause that level of disruption so I
think sensory differences are when we generally
even though we would like to do it differently
also for example been to Tesco this morning I
just quickly ran in got a few things it was noisy
but I was able to let it not disrupt what I needed
to get to and pay for my food and get out of
there. Someone whose sensory differences that
impact on their ability to go to the supermarket
will be so distracted or so bothered by their
lives that they won't be able to get the food
they need, just run out and then just actually
can't cope with physically going in. So I think,
and again, I think that can vary with how stressed
you are as well, because I think, you know, it
fluctuates, but I think I define sensory differences
really needing help for that when you can't cope
with what you need to do. Yeah, so it's the impact
on your daily life and also the exhaustion or
energy it takes in order to mask, in order to
cope. Because I suppose lots of the people that
I'm seeing in mainstream actually can't cope
in those situations. taught themselves strategies
to mask to hold it all in in order to cope for
that short amount of time that they can do and
then they absolutely fall apart that also is
a sensory difference because it takes so much
energy in order to cope with what other people
find quite easy to do absolutely and that's where
you get the analogy of children coming home and
the exploding coke bottle to some people describe
it because the whole day was like You got to
sit still. You got to listen. You got to look
at the board. You need to pick up your pen. You
need to write within the lines. And then you
get home and you just can't. You've maxed out
on the amount of time that you can do that. Or
the same for people who go to social events.
You just come home and you're just exhausted.
You just want to hibernate. In fact, so many
of the children I work with say that school holidays,
their children don't want to leave their house
because they are so tired. Yeah, they can't.
cope and the parents are like come on you need
to do something and the child's like no no so
it's very common for the children that I work
with to spend the first week of school holidays
in their pajamas and refuse going out but they
just need that respite time I know and you know
what if the child's happy and the parents can
work from home or just it's just how it is it's
not something that I would say is oh you need
to you know panic get your child out the door
actually they need that time I have a question
for you. I was researching on before this chat,
what the reasons behind the sensory differences
are. And I came up with three things and I wanted
to know if they're accurate or not. Yeah, sure.
First one was they could be autistic. Lots of,
like you said, there's a high percentage of people
that are autistic that have these sensory processing
difficulties. The next one was they could have
low muscle tone. So maybe they need to do more
in order to get that feedback. from their muscle
tone and the other one was they could be premature
maybe born before 36 weeks it's maybe underdeveloped
are these things that you are research is that
accurate yeah those are some of the things sensory
differences is a lot to do with just how your
brain process wires sensory information so for
some there's absolutely no reason for you know
particularly and You can have sensory differences
without being autistic, without being premature,
without having those. The muscle tone one is,
I see muscle tone difficulties often in people
with sensory differences, but not all people
with sensory differences have low muscle tone
and vice versa. But yeah, there is something
to be said for that. And hypermobility as well.
And then there's other conditions like Ehlers
-Danlos with the hypermobility, which is where
people have... really lacks joints and that's
to do with the the reason why people with hypermobility
have poor differences with sensory processing
is because the message isn't going through to
the proprioceptive connectors as much um so think
about a showerhead right and it's blocked and
the information the holes are like stuck up and
you know the information's it's like the water's
not completely going through. So it's a bit like
the filter is not quite... So would they need
more in order to feel that impact? So the only
thing is, with certain medical conditions though,
and this is where you need to check with the
child. So somebody with severe hypermobility
that, you know, children are prone to injuries
and can really actually, you know, tear it. a
joint you know dislocated joint if they're not
careful you have to work with a child's physiotherapist
but in terms of they'll be working around strengthening
the joints and then previous you know activities
but things that are safe as well but for most
children who you know slumping in their chair
but you can get away with things like scooter
board activities a lot of prone on their tummy
activities a lot of hanging climbing are all
things that can really help That is so helpful.
Obviously, it's individualized. Of course it
is. And I think that's kind of the point of this,
isn't it? Is, you know, yes, these general things
might be helpful, but ultimately you need to
seek professional support. Your website is full
of free resources about this topic. It's sensoryhelpnow
.org if you're listening and you want to check
it out. it's a fantastic non -profit resource
that we should all be accessing I think that's
amazing that you have got that accessible because
so many teachers and parents are either on the
waiting list for an occupational therapist or
you know there isn't a sensory trained one available
is often what I hear I heard that yesterday so
having that resource just for something to do
whilst you're waiting is a fantastic resource
so thank you for sharing that um you're very
welcome Thank you so much for being here today.
This really is a passion project of mine, this
podcast. It really is about making these experts
accessible for anybody that is interested in
learning more. And I really appreciate your time
sharing your expertise on this amazing topic
today. You're very welcome. Thank you for inviting
me.