WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.940 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.640 sponsor is Octopus Energy. 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Hello everybody and 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:10.489 welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My 00:01:10.489 --> 00:01:13.590 name is Jordan and today I'm joined by Maisie 00:01:13.590 --> 00:01:18.170 at sensory .ot .uk on Instagram and she is a 00:01:18.170 --> 00:01:20.890 sensory occupational therapist. I'm so excited 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:23.129 to have her on today but she's a pediatric occupational 00:01:23.129 --> 00:01:24.769 therapist so we're going to talk a little bit 00:01:24.769 --> 00:01:27.450 about the early years in child development today 00:01:27.450 --> 00:01:31.090 and in the sensory integration and movement umbrella. 00:01:31.629 --> 00:01:35.209 Hello Maisie. Hello, thank you so much for having 00:01:35.209 --> 00:01:37.790 me on here. I'm really excited to be here. You 00:01:37.790 --> 00:01:40.969 are so welcome. I've really been looking forward 00:01:40.969 --> 00:01:43.709 to this conversation. Can we start a little bit 00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:48.790 about what it is you do, what it looks like and 00:01:48.790 --> 00:01:51.189 who you work with? I think that's a good place 00:01:51.189 --> 00:01:54.590 to start. Absolutely. So like you said, I'm a 00:01:54.590 --> 00:01:57.290 paediatric occupational therapist. That's quite 00:01:57.290 --> 00:02:01.609 a big umbrella. So I specialise mostly in sensory 00:02:01.609 --> 00:02:04.519 integration. Which means I've done further postgraduate 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.500 study in sensory integration. But saying that. 00:02:07.819 --> 00:02:09.879 As an occupational therapist, you still look 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:12.120 at the whole child. It's still very holistic. 00:02:12.539 --> 00:02:14.759 You know, I'm still looking at fine motor skills, 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.539 gross motor skills, independent skills. Everything 00:02:17.539 --> 00:02:21.759 is very, very linked. I work with children and 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.759 adults, actually. Although I am a paediatric 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:27.599 therapist, I tend to work up to about the age 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:31.439 of 25. However, I am also taking on adults more 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:33.340 recently who are just interested in learning 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.379 about their own sensory systems. Maybe I'm not 00:02:36.379 --> 00:02:38.539 a paediatric occupational therapist anymore. 00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:42.740 I've evolved. It's just the human experience, 00:02:42.819 --> 00:02:44.819 isn't it? No matter what age you are, you have 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:48.449 sensory systems. I guess it doesn't really make 00:02:48.449 --> 00:02:50.789 a difference what age you are because your sensory 00:02:50.789 --> 00:02:53.909 system is still doing its thing. Absolutely. 00:02:53.990 --> 00:02:56.729 I'm still very much learning about my sensory 00:02:56.729 --> 00:03:00.069 systems and often I work with children, but then 00:03:00.069 --> 00:03:02.949 their parents are really interested in theirs 00:03:02.949 --> 00:03:05.250 because they're noticing some little sensory 00:03:05.250 --> 00:03:08.150 preferences as well. So there really is no age 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:11.349 limit, but I predominantly work with children 00:03:11.349 --> 00:03:16.009 currently. And I've spent my career working across... 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:20.340 private health but also NHS and working children's 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:22.439 mental health as well so I have quite a broad 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.539 experience around all of that and in special 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:27.240 needs schools. However I have kind of gone out 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:31.159 on my own and I'm on a bit of a mission to get 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.259 movement into schools really because time and 00:03:35.259 --> 00:03:38.379 time again I go into schools and I just see a 00:03:38.379 --> 00:03:42.860 lot of children very sedentary all day and It's 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:45.280 not good for development and it's not good for 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:48.139 happiness. And so I'm really on a mission to 00:03:48.139 --> 00:03:52.139 spread that message of movement and sensory integration 00:03:52.139 --> 00:03:55.560 and really get that out there. So I've gone out 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.919 alone and that's kind of what I'm doing at the 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:01.080 moment. Oh, this is music to my ears. I'm part 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:02.819 of the specialist provision. I'm attached to 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:06.439 a mainstream school and I definitely see this 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:09.400 need, like regardless of diagnosis, like let's 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:12.639 just... put them all under this one umbrella 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:16.459 of everybody needs movement my team need movement 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:20.060 I need movement I notice it in staff meetings 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:24.750 I notice it at god those awful safeguarding training 00:04:24.750 --> 00:04:26.769 that lasts all day at the beginning of term I'm 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:29.829 looking around and just thinking we need movement 00:04:29.829 --> 00:04:33.910 oh a hundred percent I mean when I do my training 00:04:33.910 --> 00:04:36.990 so I do some training for schools and for businesses 00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:39.550 as well actually when I do them the first thing 00:04:39.550 --> 00:04:43.250 I do is hand out a box of fidgets or putty and 00:04:43.250 --> 00:04:45.550 things that people can fiddle with because it 00:04:45.550 --> 00:04:47.850 will just help them to concentrate and immediately 00:04:47.850 --> 00:04:51.259 before we start we get up and we move Because 00:04:51.259 --> 00:04:54.240 it's so important. I mean, I can't sit and write 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.620 a report if I'm not on a spinny chair. No chance. 00:04:57.899 --> 00:04:59.819 It's really, really important. It's so important. 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:04.379 We see also over social media that lots of experts 00:05:04.379 --> 00:05:06.360 are saying, you know, movement breaks, sensory 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:08.540 diet, sensory circuits. There's so many terms 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.579 for this kind of movement we're talking about. 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.399 But what is the importance of movement, I suppose, 00:05:14.420 --> 00:05:16.560 for everybody, but then also particularly for 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.319 those either... those with sensory regulation 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:23.519 needs or those in the early years? Okay, so if 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.480 I start really at the beginning, movement is 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.839 essentially the foundation for all learning and 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.959 development. So in those early years, every little 00:05:32.459 --> 00:05:35.839 wiggle, crawl, reach, stretch. It's not only 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.259 developing the body but it's really developing 00:05:38.259 --> 00:05:40.939 the brain and it's kind of wiring together those 00:05:40.939 --> 00:05:43.740 neural connections and that's so important because 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:45.959 that helps us to develop those really important 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.620 skills for later on in life like attention, emotional 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:53.240 regulation, motor coordination, you know all 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:56.019 the things that we need. to be at school to be 00:05:56.019 --> 00:05:58.300 learning and just to be engaging in daily life 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:02.300 and so in those very early months of life babies 00:06:02.300 --> 00:06:05.639 have kind of automatic movement patterns these 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:08.160 are called primitive reflexes you might have 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.920 heard of those before and that's things like 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:15.699 people will know of kind of grasp reflex or sucking 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:19.899 reflex or the startle where the baby might hear 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.879 a sudden noise or there'll be a sudden movement 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:26.040 or that kind of experience of falling and the 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.699 baby will throw their arms and legs out and extend 00:06:28.699 --> 00:06:31.480 their fingers and then they'll retract back in 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:35.420 and cry. So these are all examples of primitive 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:38.660 reflexes. And these are really important because 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:42.120 if that baby then gets the movement that it requires, 00:06:42.970 --> 00:06:45.490 If they start to, you know, roll, they start 00:06:45.490 --> 00:06:47.649 to lift their head up, they start to explore 00:06:47.649 --> 00:06:51.189 their environment. Those reflexes kind of integrate 00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:54.149 back into the body and they're replaced with 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:57.170 much more voluntary movements, which is a really 00:06:57.170 --> 00:07:00.750 important process. But if those babies don't 00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:03.610 get that movement for whatever reason. you can 00:07:03.610 --> 00:07:06.649 get these reflexes being kind of retained in 00:07:06.649 --> 00:07:09.189 the body so they haven't integrated they're just 00:07:09.189 --> 00:07:12.149 kind of sticking around and they can stick around 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:15.129 for life and interestingly we see this in the 00:07:15.129 --> 00:07:17.670 neurodivergent population as well they often 00:07:17.670 --> 00:07:21.310 have a lot of retained reflexes so one we need 00:07:21.310 --> 00:07:22.949 the movement to kind of integrate them in the 00:07:22.949 --> 00:07:26.759 first place but two Where there's just so many 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:29.000 children these days who do have these retained 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.279 reflexes, we really need to be getting a lot 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.139 of movement in, particularly that kind of early 00:07:35.139 --> 00:07:38.459 developmental movement, to help them integrate 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:41.540 because that has a knock -on effect on skills 00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:44.319 in later life. Again, like the attention, emotional 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.800 regulation, etc. So that's really why movement 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:50.540 is so important in those early years. Does that 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:54.660 kind of make sense? It does. It does. So interesting. 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.839 I do a course on intensive interaction and it's 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.000 exactly the same there where those primitive 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.839 reflexes teach us about reception and communication 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.120 skills. It's so interesting to know that it also 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:08.360 teaches us about movement. I had no idea. So 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:10.839 that makes so much sense why lots of our neurodivergent 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:14.660 and PMLD learners are. struggling in that area 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:18.480 or are less developed in that area and then are 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.500 therefore needing more why would a typically 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:25.360 developing child still need movement even in 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.439 year three four five six what might be happening 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.959 there the brain is just still developing and 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.679 movement is helping the brain kind of connect 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.220 up it's helping the brain talk to you know build 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:43.700 those pathways so we need movement for life but 00:08:43.700 --> 00:08:46.960 it is very very crucial in childhood particularly 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.220 up to the age of seven but I say that but even 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:54.679 then you need a load of movement after that and 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.799 I think what I often find quite interesting is 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:01.440 I go into I've been into so many schools and 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.440 it's really always the same story and it's through 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:06.580 no fault of the school at all because it's just 00:09:06.580 --> 00:09:08.940 the education system that we have currently, 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:11.860 but it's almost like at the moment it seems to 00:09:11.860 --> 00:09:16.700 be a day full of academics and I get asked, how 00:09:16.700 --> 00:09:20.320 do we add the movement in? But in my mind, it 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:23.179 should be a day full of movement and then we 00:09:23.179 --> 00:09:26.480 think, okay, how do we add the academics in? 00:09:26.500 --> 00:09:28.919 That is the dream, isn't it? And I feel like 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:30.759 that's what special education schools, well, 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:35.250 the ones that I run. well because it absolutely 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:38.490 is movement and regulation first absolutely like 00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:43.850 without any what like wobbles at all like if 00:09:43.850 --> 00:09:47.350 all of our children do in a week is regulate 00:09:47.350 --> 00:09:50.909 and connect with others like we still see that 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:53.350 as a win you know and we still see that as learning 00:09:53.350 --> 00:09:55.809 we don't say well they didn't learn anything 00:09:55.809 --> 00:09:58.190 this week we still we like oh we learned this 00:09:58.190 --> 00:10:02.019 this week like that it just is it's just set 00:10:02.019 --> 00:10:04.620 to meet their basic care needs and then regulate 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:06.779 it's kind of like the order in which we would 00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:08.639 do things the pyramid of learning and you can't 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.559 we literally follow it follow that through that's 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:13.860 a really good point actually sorry to cut you 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:16.559 off there the pyramid of learning is that explains 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.779 it really well why we need movement because if 00:10:19.779 --> 00:10:22.200 you so if you imagine that pyramid you've got 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.440 the central nervous system at the very bottom 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.279 and that is our things like our reflexes and 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:30.299 then we've got the sensory systems we've got 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:33.500 our I'll tell you a little bit about the sensory 00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:36.419 systems as we're there. So we've got eight sensory 00:10:36.419 --> 00:10:40.080 systems, the five that we typically kind of all 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:43.620 know about. So our sight, touch, taste, hearing, 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.940 smell. And they typically tell us about the world 00:10:46.940 --> 00:10:50.240 around us. And then we've got three that are 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.320 more about telling us what's going on inside 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.080 our body. So we've got proprioception, which 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.899 is a sense of... body awareness, kind of knowing 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:01.820 where we are in space, knowing how much force 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:04.539 to use in space. And it's a really important 00:11:04.539 --> 00:11:08.220 sense in helping us feel grounded in ourselves 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:11.960 and as a person. Then we've got the vestibular 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:14.519 sense, which is our sense of balance and motion. 00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:16.940 And that's all about kind of where our head is 00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:19.840 moving through space. So that helps to keep us 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:22.580 nice and upright and brings us back to equilibrium 00:11:22.580 --> 00:11:26.370 if we're kind of off balance. upside down if 00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:31.190 we're seeing the children in white glass yeah 00:11:31.190 --> 00:11:33.809 yeah always upside down yeah and actually that 00:11:33.809 --> 00:11:37.190 has a very key role in arousal it's a vestibular 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:40.110 system and then you've got the interception system 00:11:40.110 --> 00:11:43.269 which is picking up on those internal body cues 00:11:43.269 --> 00:11:46.549 so that might be knowing when we're hungry or 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:49.409 thirsty, knowing when we need the toilet, when 00:11:49.409 --> 00:11:52.370 we're in pain, when we're too hot or too cold. 00:11:52.529 --> 00:11:55.629 And that plays a really key role in emotional 00:11:55.629 --> 00:11:58.889 regulation as well, because if we don't know 00:11:58.889 --> 00:12:01.710 how we're feeling inside our body, how do we 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:03.629 know what emotion we're feeling? And then how 00:12:03.629 --> 00:12:07.129 do we know? I love the Pyramid of Learning. For 00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:09.110 those that don't know, it's by Marianne Trott, 00:12:09.190 --> 00:12:11.750 who's an occupational therapist. Look up the 00:12:11.750 --> 00:12:13.750 Pyramid of Learning on my website or anywhere 00:12:13.750 --> 00:12:16.110 on Google and you'll find it. And it really is 00:12:16.110 --> 00:12:17.929 the fundamentals, isn't it? It really is the 00:12:17.929 --> 00:12:19.370 foundations for everything else. And you'll see 00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:22.049 above that, it goes to gross motor skills, fine 00:12:22.049 --> 00:12:23.690 motor skills. And you'll see right at the top 00:12:23.690 --> 00:12:26.809 there is managing their own behavior. And then 00:12:26.809 --> 00:12:29.649 right at the top is academic learning. It can't 00:12:29.649 --> 00:12:31.149 happen unless you've got all these fundamental 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:33.409 skills. And that is exactly what Maisie is talking 00:12:33.409 --> 00:12:36.340 about. if we haven't learned these skills if 00:12:36.340 --> 00:12:38.919 we haven't got them integrated we couldn't possibly 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:43.220 expect our young people to manage their bodies 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.320 manage their behaviors manage their feelings 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.519 in a safe way and certainly not academically 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:50.960 learn and I love that it's called academic learning 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:52.080 as well because there's learning all the way 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.559 through but that's spitting down academic learning 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.000 but so often schools are asking about young people 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.559 they couldn't possibly do those things. It's 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:02.799 very unrealistic to ask our young people to do 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:05.279 those things if they haven't learnt the other 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.850 star. Absolutely. Yeah, it just builds up and 00:13:08.850 --> 00:13:12.309 up. It's like if you imagine a house, if you 00:13:12.309 --> 00:13:15.269 build a house on a wobbly foundation, the rest 00:13:15.269 --> 00:13:17.549 of the house is going to be wobbly. And it's 00:13:17.549 --> 00:13:20.450 exactly the same. If those sensory systems aren't 00:13:20.450 --> 00:13:23.389 well developed, then everything above it on that 00:13:23.389 --> 00:13:26.090 pyramid is going to be quite patchy. And sometimes 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:28.870 the nervous system finds alternative routes around 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.789 and can kind of get those skills in a bit of 00:13:31.789 --> 00:13:35.259 a strange way. But it's often a lot more effortful 00:13:35.259 --> 00:13:38.240 for the child when that happens. And it often 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.120 results in kind of issues in later life. It could 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.179 be inappropriate or hurting. Yeah. You know, 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:47.059 we're seeing those either self -hurting or hurting 00:13:47.059 --> 00:13:48.980 others. Perception was a classic example you 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:51.639 gave of knowing how much force to give. Yeah. 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.460 We see really tight hugs or really hard pushes 00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:57.519 and they're just trying to play. And you can 00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.460 see that all over the face. It's certainly not 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:03.460 malicious. But it's that not knowing or understanding 00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:06.039 their own strength, their own force that's needed, 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.860 appropriate force. It's just classic. You know, 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.039 we see it all the time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.179 it's a really important way to look at it. And 00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:17.779 I think that's probably a real key message for 00:14:17.779 --> 00:14:21.340 schools to take away is that if there is a child 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:24.200 in your class who... you know is struggling with 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.019 their academic learning or has got some behavioral 00:14:27.019 --> 00:14:30.360 challenges I hate that word because you know 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:39.279 yeah absolutely still don't like that it's not 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.039 so whether we you know whether it challenges 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.250 us or not you know It's certainly not the child 00:14:44.250 --> 00:14:47.970 that challenges. Exactly, exactly. And so I would 00:14:47.970 --> 00:14:50.549 always encourage them, okay, go back down that 00:14:50.549 --> 00:14:52.809 pyramid and figure out what's going on at the 00:14:52.809 --> 00:14:55.889 bottom because that's often the missing piece 00:14:55.889 --> 00:14:58.019 of the puzzle. And that might change. day to 00:14:58.019 --> 00:14:59.840 day, minute by minute. They might have been fine 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:01.700 the day before. They might have been regulated 00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:04.019 in their body. They might be managing their fine 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:05.659 motor skills. They might be managing their behavior, 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.679 their body and able to academically learn. And 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.399 then something happens. Maybe they're feeling 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.379 poorly. Maybe they are tired. Maybe something's 00:15:12.379 --> 00:15:14.779 happened at home. You know, all of those things 00:15:14.779 --> 00:15:18.299 can then take a backward step because it's so 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:20.600 fundamental, because regulation is so fundamental 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.419 to everything else. If we're not regulated. All 00:15:23.419 --> 00:15:25.120 of a sudden, we can't do anything else. It's 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.679 just like that fight, fright, flee, freeze mode, 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:29.980 right? None of us can academically learn in that 00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:31.559 mode. So if our students are feeling like that, 00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:33.960 they're certainly not going to be ready to learn 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.639 either, even if they've learned all these things 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:39.200 and they could do them yesterday. Absolutely. 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.360 Regulation always has to come first. And yeah, 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.980 so the reason this kind of relates to movement 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:49.259 is that movement is so key for, first of all, 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.720 that reflex development. And then you move up 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:53.940 and it's so important for the development of 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:57.240 the vestibular and proprioceptive systems. And 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.159 they kind of come alive with movement. So if 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.039 you don't get enough of it, you're not stimulating 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.240 them enough. And it has that knock -on effect 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.159 on the rest of the pyramid. Do you feel like... 00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:11.330 Everybody that works in offices that doesn't 00:16:11.330 --> 00:16:15.129 get much movement and those kind of jobs, regardless 00:16:15.129 --> 00:16:17.669 of neurodiversity or not, would benefit from 00:16:17.669 --> 00:16:22.549 regular breaks. Absolutely. Yeah, I've been doing 00:16:22.549 --> 00:16:24.730 a lot of reflecting on this recently, actually. 00:16:24.809 --> 00:16:28.200 I recently went on some... I'm currently doing 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.139 some training called rhythmic movement training. 00:16:30.340 --> 00:16:33.500 And within that, I discovered that I have a lot 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:37.440 of retained reflexes for whatever reason. I've 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.759 made the links and I can see how that impacts 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.919 me. And it might not. I mean, I'm generally quite 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:45.639 self -aware anyway, but some people might not 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.320 even notice that these little things impact their 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.059 daily life. And actually, if we could address 00:16:52.059 --> 00:16:56.389 them through movement. life would feel so much 00:16:56.389 --> 00:16:59.409 easier. On the inside and the outside of our 00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:01.889 bodies, I can imagine, you know, I'm sure it 00:17:01.889 --> 00:17:04.490 will affect mental health as well as physical 00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:06.869 health. Yeah, absolutely. How long should we 00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:09.650 be asking children to sit for then? Because unfortunately, 00:17:09.769 --> 00:17:12.130 we haven't got a movement curriculum that we 00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:14.569 can just sprinkle academic learning in. Unfortunately, 00:17:14.710 --> 00:17:17.930 maybe one day when I'm prime minister or whatever. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.259 But we haven't got it currently. So how long 00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:23.380 should we be asking children to sit for? How 00:17:23.380 --> 00:17:27.619 regular should these movement breaks be? It really 00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:31.519 depends on age and the individual child. However, 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.819 I wouldn't necessarily think of it as movement 00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:38.740 breaks as much as that's great as a starting 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:41.859 point. I would try and think, okay, we're learning 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.160 this today. How can we incorporate some movement 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.079 into that? So it's not about... You know, I see 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.779 children sitting there all for an hour listening, 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:54.019 sitting in their chair and, you know, they're 00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.119 reminded to put their feet on the floor and turn 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:58.140 around. And it's really, really difficult to 00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:02.160 do even as an adult. So that is far too long, 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:05.019 first of all. But again, it does depend on the 00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:08.259 child. And I just would be interspersing it every 00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:11.759 kind of. maybe even 10 minutes or so just some 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.759 kind of movement or having access to things that 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.900 can allow them to move so it might be that actually 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:21.920 we use more dynamic seating or we might have 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.180 access to things that they can fiddle with or 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.819 in fact seating is a whole other topic that I 00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:28.900 could talk about for ages because that would 00:18:28.900 --> 00:18:31.539 really make a big difference in children's ability 00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:34.160 to focus but yeah it's just about opportunities 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:38.069 to stand opportunities to pace Even turning to 00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:40.430 a partner and back again, even just that cross 00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:44.269 -body movement could be really helpful. Yeah, 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:47.309 definitely. You know, if we're writing, why do 00:18:47.309 --> 00:18:51.049 we need to be writing on a chair at a table in 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:54.089 horizontal? Why can't we have some paper up on 00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:56.309 the wall and we can, I don't know, be in high 00:18:56.309 --> 00:18:58.650 kneeling and do some writing or drawing like 00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:01.890 that? And laying on the floor. Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:05.410 In fact, that's a really good point because tummy 00:19:05.410 --> 00:19:10.359 time. We think of babies when you say tummy time. 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.859 Tummy time is so important for any age, I would 00:19:14.859 --> 00:19:18.759 say. It's really good at integrating the proprioception 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.299 and vestibular systems. And in turn, it's developing 00:19:22.299 --> 00:19:26.099 those other skills. If you can get your learners 00:19:26.099 --> 00:19:29.019 on the floor on their tummies, not only is it 00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:31.759 developing their sensory systems, it's developing 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.200 their core strength, their upper body strength, 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.839 their visual skills. It's just it's really good 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.759 position to be in. So it's not really any reason 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.519 why more activities couldn't be on the floor. 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:46.130 And the teachers, I suppose, that are struggling 00:19:46.130 --> 00:19:48.410 to fit movement breaks in, well, you wouldn't 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:51.650 need to if it was embedded and integrated in 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:54.509 your lesson plans. Yeah. It wouldn't need to 00:19:54.509 --> 00:19:57.750 be extra. I mean, ultimately, that is the goal 00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:00.069 here, isn't it, is to have it so well integrated 00:20:00.069 --> 00:20:03.190 that it just is and you don't have to think about 00:20:03.190 --> 00:20:07.059 it as extra. Yeah. It's just there. Yeah, absolutely. 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.079 It is definitely a mindset shift and it's a whole 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:14.119 kind of culture shift that is really needed in 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.220 the education system. Because teachers, though, 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.480 even though we do have certain requirements and 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.240 curriculum to use, we still do in this country 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.240 have enough freedom. I would like to speak for 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.940 all teachers, but maybe some schools don't. But 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:28.420 certainly the ones that I've worked with and 00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:32.740 have visited and worked in, teachers still have 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:37.460 enough. um autonomy to be able to do this um 00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:40.299 if it just takes a little bit more thought I 00:20:40.299 --> 00:20:42.839 guess yeah they might not feel like they have 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.240 enough time to add it to anything they're already 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.299 doing integrating it feels different to me I 00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:51.700 still feel like teachers on the whole could if 00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:55.079 they really wanted to spend the time learning 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.430 that muscle memory of kind of those and teaching 00:20:58.430 --> 00:21:01.569 their class you know ways that we can do movement 00:21:01.569 --> 00:21:04.069 I still feel like we've got autonomy to add that 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:06.650 in I think you just need to be really committed 00:21:06.650 --> 00:21:10.490 to learning yourself and making that happen finding 00:21:10.490 --> 00:21:14.589 ways of embedding that absolutely and I know 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:18.210 teachers are so overstretched and it almost feels 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:20.789 like another thing to do and another way to think. 00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.309 And I do actually offer that. I know we'll talk 00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:26.029 about kind of what I can offer, but I do offer 00:21:26.029 --> 00:21:29.450 that as a service. If any teachers have a lesson 00:21:29.450 --> 00:21:31.769 plan and they're not sure how to get movement 00:21:31.769 --> 00:21:34.410 into it, you can send it to me and I will help 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:35.970 you. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about 00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:37.509 that. It's the perfect time to move that and 00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:39.869 to talk about that now. So what is that called 00:21:39.869 --> 00:21:43.950 and how does that work? So it's a very kind of 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:46.109 relaxed service that I do at the moment. I just 00:21:46.109 --> 00:21:49.410 offer that. So when teachers are writing their 00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:52.369 lesson plans, if they don't have time, they don't 00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:55.009 have the kind of the brain space, the energy 00:21:55.009 --> 00:21:57.730 to be able to do that themselves, send it my 00:21:57.730 --> 00:22:00.009 way and I will go through your lesson plan and 00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:02.730 I will just write down ideas of what you could 00:22:02.730 --> 00:22:05.250 do, where you could do it, what position to do 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:08.150 it in, how you could incorporate other fine motor 00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:10.349 skills, gross motor skills. So it's a very kind 00:22:10.349 --> 00:22:14.220 of... holistic approach on the learning and I 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:15.920 suppose once you've got that for one lesson plan 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:18.819 you could then very easily repeat that and it 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:21.380 will become easier the more you do it like all 00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:24.099 of these things everything we learn becomes easier 00:22:24.099 --> 00:22:27.180 the more we do it and then hopefully in three 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.240 it takes three weeks to make a habit right hopefully 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.380 in three weeks it will just be happening without 00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:34.319 you having to really think about it absolutely 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.299 yeah or even if you just need some training around 00:22:37.299 --> 00:22:41.509 what to do and why to do it then like a one -off 00:22:41.509 --> 00:22:44.529 that can really help as well so I can be quite 00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:46.630 flexible with what I can offer around that so 00:22:46.630 --> 00:22:49.670 if you do have any teachers or school staff that 00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:51.529 are interested do just get in touch and we can 00:22:51.529 --> 00:22:53.630 have a chat about how I can help and offer that 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:55.789 sounds incredible be careful I have got a lot 00:22:55.789 --> 00:22:59.970 of you might be inundated with 140 ,000 emails 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:01.910 asking you to look through their lesson plans 00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:04.130 be very careful but no it's such a fantastic 00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:07.069 offer because Teachers do really, really want 00:23:07.069 --> 00:23:09.730 to get this right. Without a doubt. It's not 00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:12.490 through lack of wanting. It's through lack of 00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:15.569 energy, time, know -how. Access to occupational 00:23:15.569 --> 00:23:20.230 therapists is a huge, it's a huge one. So being 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:22.509 able to just have access to you and your feedback 00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:25.309 is crucial. It's kind of why I started this podcast 00:23:25.309 --> 00:23:27.690 in the first place, just to allow access, you 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:31.349 know, to experts. So that's awesome that you 00:23:31.349 --> 00:23:34.650 offer that. I suppose it goes along with asking 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:39.309 what happens to our learners if they can't access 00:23:39.309 --> 00:23:41.430 this needed movement? I suppose that will answer 00:23:41.430 --> 00:23:44.269 the why it's so important. What happens to their 00:23:44.269 --> 00:23:46.630 bodies? What happens to their learning? What 00:23:46.630 --> 00:23:49.670 happens to their brain? Yeah. So, I mean, you 00:23:49.670 --> 00:23:53.339 can think of this in two ways, really. I like 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:55.359 to think of this with the kind of sensory cup 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.680 analogy. I don't know if you've heard that before. 00:23:57.980 --> 00:24:02.000 So you can imagine that each of our sensory systems, 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.460 we have a different size cup for. So for instance, 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:09.039 a child who needs a lot of vestibular input, 00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.640 a lot of movement input, might have a really, 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.019 really big cup for vestibular. And the aim is 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:18.119 we are trying to fill up the cup to the top so 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.440 they are regulated. without it overflowing when 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:25.220 it's overflowing they're overstimulated so it's 00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:27.660 a fine art getting it full without tipping it 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:32.559 over and that same child might have a really 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.380 small cup for auditory so they might find loud 00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:39.700 noises really really difficult to tolerate so 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:42.299 their auditory cup is actually very small it 00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:45.099 will only take a tiny bit of input to fill up 00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:48.579 that cup and make it overflow Whereas the movement 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:51.019 cup, they need loads and loads and loads and 00:24:51.019 --> 00:24:54.119 loads because that threshold is very high. So 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.220 when we start to think about our learner's sensory 00:24:57.220 --> 00:25:00.660 systems like cups, we can start to think about, 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.259 OK, what do we need to top up and what do we 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.799 need to empty? And if we're just focusing on 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.440 movement, we're probably thinking about that 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:14.920 vestibular cup and that proprioception cup. If 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.160 a child who has a very, very big vestibular cup 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.579 is not getting enough movement, they will not 00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:25.940 be regulated. You regulated, I don't mean calm. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.279 And I think this often gets you. Yeah. So regular. 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:35.359 We don't mean calm and sitting. Yeah. Yeah. Still. 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.740 That's what it means. Regulated doesn't mean 00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:41.029 still. Absolutely. It doesn't mean still. It 00:25:41.029 --> 00:25:44.390 means whatever nervous system state you need 00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:48.390 to be in to do the task at hand. So, you know, 00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:52.210 if you're just about to go to bed, you do need 00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:54.990 to be in a calm state. So that would be calm. 00:25:55.069 --> 00:25:57.970 That would be regulation at that point. But if 00:25:57.970 --> 00:26:01.670 you are Christmas morning and you're just about 00:26:01.670 --> 00:26:04.910 to open your presents. Yeah, absolutely. A regulated 00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:07.529 state might be jumping and clapping and stimming 00:26:07.529 --> 00:26:11.789 and... And stimming vocally and that would be 00:26:11.789 --> 00:26:16.069 an appropriate regulated state. Absolutely. Yeah, 00:26:16.210 --> 00:26:19.589 spot on. Or if you had to do, I don't know, an 00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:22.430 interview or a test or something, you need to 00:26:22.430 --> 00:26:24.950 be a little bit nervous because you need to be 00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:27.470 at that level of alertness that is appropriate 00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:31.269 for the activity. You're certainly not calm in 00:26:31.269 --> 00:26:33.269 an interview state, are you? But you can feel 00:26:33.269 --> 00:26:35.809 regulated and do things to make you feel more 00:26:35.809 --> 00:26:38.049 grounded and more steady to listen to the question, 00:26:38.069 --> 00:26:40.809 but you're certainly never calm. You're probably 00:26:40.809 --> 00:26:44.180 needing to be still. But you're certainly not 00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:46.599 calm. Yeah, that's a really, really great point. 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:51.799 Yeah. And also, sometimes your learners could 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:56.460 be still, but not regulated. They're not listening. 00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.059 They're not focused. They're inside their own 00:26:59.059 --> 00:27:02.220 heads. They're a complete in fawn or fright mode. 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:06.319 And they're still. They're certainly not regulated. 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.680 So, yeah, that's a really good point for teachers 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.960 to look around. Don't aim for still. Aim for 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:16.140 regulated. Absolutely. And that is a good point 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.000 that you raised is that I often will go into 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.700 a classroom and the teacher might say, oh, this 00:27:22.700 --> 00:27:27.039 child is very regulated in the day. Or, you know, 00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:28.859 parents have told me when they get home, they 00:27:28.859 --> 00:27:31.140 kind of have a big meltdown and it all comes 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:33.799 out. That kind of after school restraint collapse, 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.400 we'd call it. So then I go into school and they 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.769 say, oh, he's very regulated at school. But actually, 00:27:39.849 --> 00:27:44.250 no, he's very quiet, masking, quite tense, sitting 00:27:44.250 --> 00:27:46.970 there. He might look regulated because he's not 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:49.750 bouncing around and kind of being disruptive 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.069 in any way. But that's not regulation. And I 00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:55.109 suppose if you're adding that embedded movement 00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:58.630 into his day, hopefully his cut point would be 00:27:58.630 --> 00:28:02.269 so overflowing when he gets home that then he 00:28:02.269 --> 00:28:06.980 gets, you know, it gets dangerous. Yes. or completely 00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:10.500 overwhelmed and that happens so often I hear 00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:13.970 it often It does. Yeah. And so when we think 00:28:13.970 --> 00:28:16.950 about those cups, we are trying to fill them 00:28:16.950 --> 00:28:20.410 up to the right level for that child. So if they're 00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:23.650 not getting enough, they probably will seek it 00:28:23.650 --> 00:28:26.349 in other ways, which are often quite unsafe and 00:28:26.349 --> 00:28:28.369 aren't things that we want them to be doing in 00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:31.250 the classroom. Or they will mask it. And like 00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:33.509 you said, it will come out at home. And then 00:28:33.509 --> 00:28:36.589 equally for those children that you often don't, 00:28:36.589 --> 00:28:39.210 often not so much of an issue at school with 00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:41.589 the children who need less movement. because 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:44.529 they usually are quite sedentary but you do have 00:28:44.529 --> 00:28:47.349 to watch out for that in things like PE if you've 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:49.789 got a child with a very small vestibular cut 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:53.470 up you need to be careful about things like them 00:28:53.470 --> 00:28:55.529 taking their feet off the floor or balancing 00:28:55.529 --> 00:28:57.930 because that or kind of tipping their head back 00:28:57.930 --> 00:29:01.230 because that could feel very very unsettling 00:29:01.230 --> 00:29:02.849 for them and that can really trigger that fight 00:29:02.849 --> 00:29:06.190 or flight response so I guess with the movement 00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:09.349 it's about knowing what the children need and 00:29:09.349 --> 00:29:12.289 that brings me on nicely to proprioception because 00:29:12.289 --> 00:29:16.210 proprioception is almost a bit of a magic sense 00:29:16.210 --> 00:29:19.269 if you want to call it that because it's really 00:29:19.269 --> 00:29:21.990 good for most children and it's really regulating 00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:25.289 for most children. You can't really overstimulate 00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:28.450 with it and that's the type of movement that 00:29:28.450 --> 00:29:32.220 I would love to see more of in. schools so what 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:34.839 would that look like in take your mainstream 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.980 average class you've got 33 kids one adult what 00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:42.160 does it look like to have embedded proprioceptive 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:46.519 in your lesson yeah so the great thing about 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.779 proprioceptive input is it can kind of be as 00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:52.299 creative as you want with it and use the children's 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:55.019 interests it's essentially anything that is going 00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.380 to put resistance to the muscles and the joints 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:02.740 really so anything involving pulling or pushing 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:07.220 lifting or carrying chewing biting squeezing 00:30:07.220 --> 00:30:12.559 so just if you're watching your learners always 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.599 think the nervous system knows what it needs 00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.039 so really watch your learners and see what they're 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:19.900 doing chances are they're probably seeking some 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:22.759 proprioception along the way somewhere if they're 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.420 squeezing or pushing pulling so in a mainstream 00:30:25.420 --> 00:30:29.329 classroom That could be carrying books, going 00:30:29.329 --> 00:30:32.269 to get the register, carrying heavy things, pushing, 00:30:32.450 --> 00:30:34.950 stacking the chairs at the end of the day. Things 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:37.529 like this, just tiny little things. Doesn't need 00:30:37.529 --> 00:30:42.609 to be a big fidget or a... Yeah. I was just imagining 00:30:42.609 --> 00:30:44.829 a child I was like how do my children do it and 00:30:44.829 --> 00:30:46.269 I think they're getting a bit of vestibular I've 00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:48.210 always seen it as vestibular but maybe it's proprioception 00:30:48.210 --> 00:30:50.009 as well when they're rocking on their chair and 00:30:50.009 --> 00:30:52.869 they're pushing the table yeah to get that rocking 00:30:52.869 --> 00:30:54.410 motion I mean obviously I've always seen it as 00:30:54.410 --> 00:30:56.390 rocking motion which would be vestibular but 00:30:56.390 --> 00:30:58.849 maybe it is that resistance of the table as well 00:30:58.849 --> 00:31:00.690 yeah in that proprioception I mean that would 00:31:00.690 --> 00:31:02.369 be a great one I mean how many teachers have 00:31:02.369 --> 00:31:05.299 said stop rocking on your chair It's such a great 00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:07.799 regulation tool, isn't it, to be able to do that? 00:31:08.019 --> 00:31:11.539 Absolutely, yeah. And you see it in mainstream 00:31:11.539 --> 00:31:14.440 schools. Children will seek it in very subtle 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.940 ways. So to the untrained eye, you probably wouldn't 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:21.400 notice it, but they're doing little things with 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.559 their body. It could be stamping or tiptoe walking 00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:25.180 even, couldn't it, feeling that resistance up 00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:28.259 their legs. So I certainly see, I mean, God, 00:31:28.339 --> 00:31:32.349 I can't. avoid seeing tiptoe walking on the playground 00:31:32.349 --> 00:31:34.250 with our mainstream students and it just being 00:31:34.250 --> 00:31:36.609 such a red flag to me that they're needing more 00:31:36.609 --> 00:31:38.829 because obviously then that gives all bloody 00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:40.930 pressure and resistance up your calves doesn't 00:31:40.930 --> 00:31:43.109 it and they're not flapping and they're just 00:31:43.109 --> 00:31:44.690 playing football whatever it is they're doing 00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:47.230 but I'm just seeing that slight tiptoe walk and 00:31:47.230 --> 00:31:49.829 that is just That's a really key thing to look 00:31:49.829 --> 00:31:52.470 out for. And just being particularly stampy as 00:31:52.470 --> 00:31:54.390 well, I find, just gives that resistance when 00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:56.390 they're walking. We all know those kind of children 00:31:56.390 --> 00:31:59.690 that stamp down the corridor or run their hand 00:31:59.690 --> 00:32:01.569 along the wall as they're walking to assembly 00:32:01.569 --> 00:32:04.430 that cannot keep their hands down. It's all of 00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:07.420 those little tells, isn't it? is yeah you have 00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:09.740 to put on your detective hat and just have a 00:32:09.740 --> 00:32:12.839 look at what your learners are doing and really 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.380 think what is that giving them how would that 00:32:15.380 --> 00:32:18.759 feel in their body even do it yourself kind of 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:22.559 mimic it and see how that feels because it's 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.980 providing the body with something and the key 00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:28.039 is figuring out what that is and then putting 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:32.059 in something that can replace that in a more 00:32:32.059 --> 00:32:36.410 kind of adaptive way yeah is so so obviously 00:32:36.410 --> 00:32:39.890 we would ideally have individual approaches for 00:32:39.890 --> 00:32:42.930 every single child but i know teachers listen 00:32:42.930 --> 00:32:45.369 to this or think well that's impossible and turn 00:32:45.369 --> 00:32:47.970 it off you know that but then i suppose proprioception 00:32:47.970 --> 00:32:50.829 if you're thinking about that if if you can do 00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:53.630 as much of that for the most part without getting 00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:56.150 overstimulated maybe that's a good place to start 00:32:56.150 --> 00:33:00.210 for a one size helps most help all kind of approach 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:03.380 is looking at that resistance because If they 00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:05.859 don't need it, they can't get overstimulated 00:33:05.859 --> 00:33:09.279 with it. So it's fine. It's still movement. But 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.200 if they do need it, then it's putting that stuff 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.019 in. So maybe when we're looking at whole class 00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:15.000 approaches, you know, it's better than nothing. 00:33:15.339 --> 00:33:18.220 Yeah. Maybe start with those approaches. So if 00:33:18.220 --> 00:33:20.180 we're thinking about sensory circuits or whole 00:33:20.180 --> 00:33:22.819 class movement dances or movement breaks or play 00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:25.920 -doh, whatever it is that you're doing as a whole 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.019 class to get that movement in. Great. Fantastic. 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.480 We love that. We'd way rather that than nothing. 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.460 yeah but maybe start thinking about that resistance 00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:37.079 because it probably will help most as a kind 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.299 of blanket rule and then maybe you could get 00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.519 some individual stuff in there as well definitely 00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:44.920 it's always always my first what after environment 00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:48.940 proprioception is environment is very key proprioception 00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:51.920 is the thing that I would get in there without 00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.579 I mean I don't really even need to see the class 00:33:54.579 --> 00:33:58.400 I can just say have you tried proactively and 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.980 that's the key thing putting heavy work input 00:34:00.980 --> 00:34:03.779 throughout the day we don't want to wait till 00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:06.039 the children are already dysregulated because 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.699 by that point you're just giving them another 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.940 thing to process it needs to be this proactive 00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:15.800 approach let's get that in first nine times out 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.969 of ten it results in a class full of regulated 00:34:18.969 --> 00:34:22.610 children and you don't need anything else. So 00:34:22.610 --> 00:34:24.730 it's a really, really good one to think about. 00:34:24.909 --> 00:34:26.889 Yeah, and I want to be fair as well. We're coming 00:34:26.889 --> 00:34:29.670 from decades of experience of adding this. So 00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:33.769 for us both, it is muscle memory to just do those 00:34:33.769 --> 00:34:36.730 things. But I suppose some people listening to 00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:39.130 this may have never done it before. So I suppose 00:34:39.130 --> 00:34:41.550 maybe just think in your first lesson of the 00:34:41.550 --> 00:34:45.090 day. think about adding one thing in for the 00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:48.110 week just add one thing into your first lesson 00:34:48.110 --> 00:34:50.210 every day and then build up to it you know I've 00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:52.710 got 16 years of doing this I don't want you to 00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:54.690 feel like you have to know it all and then it'd 00:34:54.690 --> 00:34:57.030 be overwhelming I'd way rather you do one thing 00:34:57.030 --> 00:35:00.150 and add that in see the impact experiment like 00:35:00.150 --> 00:35:02.920 you said put your detective hat on does this 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:05.559 work do they need more right okay and then when 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:06.920 you feel comfortable with that when your class 00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:08.300 are ready with that then add something else and 00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:10.039 then maybe by the end of the year think how where 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:12.219 you'd be you know you might have integrated it 00:35:12.219 --> 00:35:14.420 throughout your year and it will feel easy to 00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:16.360 you so don't feel like you have to do all of 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:19.349 this on day one I'd write way rather you do it 00:35:19.349 --> 00:35:22.510 once absolutely yeah the last thing I would ever 00:35:22.510 --> 00:35:26.130 want to do is make teachers or school staff feel 00:35:26.130 --> 00:35:29.469 any more overwhelmed than they already feel and 00:35:29.469 --> 00:35:32.030 I feel very passionately about that I really 00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:36.780 don't want to add to the workload um so yeah 00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:40.320 like you said do it very slowly do it very small 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.539 things build up and you'll start to see over 00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:45.719 a period of time the difference and it will just 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.900 become second nature and also if you can get 00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:51.400 the staff involved as well it helps everyone's 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:53.980 nervous system so everyone will start to get 00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:57.340 the benefit of that and really i'm a huge advocate 00:35:57.340 --> 00:36:00.320 for that no one is standing around watching everybody 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.559 yeah you'll always get that one same team member 00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:07.340 behind the ipad like taken an observation come 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:10.360 on now you're dancing to footloose just as much 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.840 as the rest of us come on now exactly yeah exactly 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.400 right people are gonna want to know how to get 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.239 hold of you especially for the lesson plans but 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:21.880 for everything else you offer so you do you it's 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.280 magic moves isn't it that you do it's a movement 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:26.920 -based program for schools and a six -month program 00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.159 for parents do you want to talk about that a 00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:33.750 little bit Yeah, so my school's program is called 00:36:33.750 --> 00:36:37.550 Magic Moves. It's a movement program. So it's 00:36:37.550 --> 00:36:42.010 essentially 40 weeks of movement videos that 00:36:42.010 --> 00:36:45.829 tell a story. So each week is a different story. 00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:48.989 So maybe week one might be jungle theme, week 00:36:48.989 --> 00:36:52.769 two might be under the sea or whatever. And each 00:36:52.769 --> 00:36:57.130 day builds upon the story. Every video... is 00:36:57.130 --> 00:36:59.269 only about five minutes long so it's about five 00:36:59.269 --> 00:37:01.610 minutes a day it's really great for a movement 00:37:01.610 --> 00:37:05.289 break and all the movements are those early developmental 00:37:05.289 --> 00:37:10.389 movements plus proprioceptive input plus interoception 00:37:10.389 --> 00:37:12.829 as well so it helps children tune into themselves 00:37:12.829 --> 00:37:15.909 so it's essentially a program that I pulled together 00:37:15.909 --> 00:37:19.960 because I It was everything I want to kind of 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:23.400 see happen in schools that I say over and over 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:25.219 and over again. And I thought, actually, why 00:37:25.219 --> 00:37:28.059 couldn't I bring this all together and do it 00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:31.280 in a really fun story based way? It's a pre -recorded 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:33.119 thing that you could either play on your whiteboard 00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.320 or play at home whenever you need that really 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.659 rich, well put together movement break. Yeah. 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:45.039 Or movement. It'd be a really good thing to play. 00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:48.150 That's awesome. I love the sound of that. you've 00:37:48.150 --> 00:37:50.369 also got calm the chaos as well can you tell 00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:53.130 us a little bit yes sure in fact actually before 00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:55.349 i talk about calm the chaos i might just say 00:37:55.349 --> 00:37:59.010 on that you can also add other bits so i i also 00:37:59.010 --> 00:38:02.190 do sensory champion training so i like training 00:38:02.190 --> 00:38:05.510 kind of one or two or a few staff in a school 00:38:05.510 --> 00:38:09.849 to be almost sensory champions so they are kind 00:38:09.849 --> 00:38:11.710 of the sensory lead for that school and it's 00:38:11.710 --> 00:38:13.710 quite an intensive training that I do with them 00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:15.969 and intensive support and they have a lot of 00:38:15.969 --> 00:38:19.010 access to me and it helps filter down those kind 00:38:19.010 --> 00:38:20.889 of sensory bits throughout the whole school. 00:38:21.389 --> 00:38:23.869 It really adds it then in the whole school. Yeah 00:38:23.869 --> 00:38:26.829 absolutely and I think it's quite a empowering 00:38:26.829 --> 00:38:29.489 role for a member of staff to have as well especially 00:38:29.489 --> 00:38:31.969 when you start seeing the kind of impact of it. 00:38:32.650 --> 00:38:35.050 And I'm sure every headteacher or SENCO listening 00:38:35.050 --> 00:38:37.250 to this can immediately think of somebody in 00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:38.769 their school that would be a great advocate, 00:38:38.889 --> 00:38:41.150 that's already a great advocate, really harness 00:38:41.150 --> 00:38:44.929 that interest and really boost out the skills 00:38:44.929 --> 00:38:48.269 in you to get everybody else levelled up, I suppose. 00:38:48.630 --> 00:38:51.829 Absolutely. And what's lovely about that is we 00:38:51.829 --> 00:38:55.079 also have a monthly. Q &A session for all the 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:57.739 sensory champions so all the staff from the different 00:38:57.739 --> 00:39:00.980 schools can come together and talk about what 00:39:00.980 --> 00:39:02.619 they're doing in their school and it's a really 00:39:02.619 --> 00:39:05.139 nice kind of networking opportunity as well so 00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:09.400 that's been really lovely and then I've got my 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:12.579 parent program which is Calm the Chaos so it's 00:39:12.579 --> 00:39:17.239 a six month quite intensive support package again 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.219 because working in previous roles I was never 00:39:21.219 --> 00:39:24.219 able to give families the level of support that 00:39:24.219 --> 00:39:27.920 they needed and the kind of long period of time 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.179 that they needed to embed things and just to 00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:32.519 have someone there for them so I've developed 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:35.420 that so I can kind of feel a bit like a family 00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:37.699 member to them and they can just rely on me when 00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:42.719 they need me yeah absolutely and I'm with them 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.340 every step of the way and so in that you've got 00:39:46.340 --> 00:39:49.119 some coaching with me you've got training videos 00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.519 based on your child's needs you've got sensory 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:54.320 screenings you've got support for the school 00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:57.900 you've got the movement videos um there's a lot 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:01.019 in it and it's quite an intensive package but 00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:03.960 it's really wanted it to just feel like a hug 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.440 for a family and it's to support the whole family 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.340 and I can help with multiple children I can even 00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:12.820 help adults understand their own sensory needs 00:40:12.820 --> 00:40:17.070 so those are my two um main packages really. 00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:20.210 Oh that's they sound incredible and it's so what's 00:40:20.210 --> 00:40:23.369 needed like I said I mean I'm in Cornwall and 00:40:23.369 --> 00:40:26.590 getting access to anybody is so so difficult 00:40:26.590 --> 00:40:29.889 that's if you know what you're even after you 00:40:29.889 --> 00:40:32.869 know so often it's so difficult to even know 00:40:32.869 --> 00:40:36.469 who you need in the therapy kind of world so 00:40:36.469 --> 00:40:40.489 that sounds amazing and I would say from my experience 00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:44.030 of working with a load of different experts regulation 00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:48.369 is first. So if you're struggling with any other 00:40:48.369 --> 00:40:51.210 areas, behaviour, communication, whatever it 00:40:51.210 --> 00:40:55.309 is, eating, everything, all comes back down to 00:40:55.309 --> 00:40:57.849 regulation. So I would say, I would advocate 00:40:57.849 --> 00:41:00.150 that it's a really good place to start if you're 00:41:00.150 --> 00:41:03.949 unsure. Yeah, 100%. Regulation before everything. 00:41:04.110 --> 00:41:07.059 I will die on that hill. I mean... Everyone will 00:41:07.059 --> 00:41:08.360 expect you to say that because you're an occupational 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.840 therapist. Occupational therapists say that. 00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:12.679 So I've just got to put my thing as well. I agree. 00:41:13.059 --> 00:41:15.300 I'm a special education teacher. I teach lots 00:41:15.300 --> 00:41:17.440 of different things. I speak to lots of different 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.679 people. And I agree with you that regulation 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.920 is key. It has to come first. It really, really 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:25.820 does. Without that, you can't hope you could 00:41:25.820 --> 00:41:27.619 have the best systems in the world. You can have 00:41:27.619 --> 00:41:29.980 the best communication, iPad and training and 00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:34.130 expertise in the world. It will not. support 00:41:34.130 --> 00:41:36.929 in the as well as it can do unless your children 00:41:36.929 --> 00:41:39.250 are regulated so yeah I definitely I would die 00:41:39.250 --> 00:41:43.650 on that hill too thank you if you want to contact 00:41:43.650 --> 00:41:45.550 Maisie I'm sure you all will with your lesson 00:41:45.550 --> 00:41:50.429 plans now see her website or her instagram which 00:41:50.429 --> 00:41:53.590 is at sensory .ot .uk thank you so much Maisie 00:41:53.590 --> 00:41:56.170 for your time and for joining us today thank 00:41:56.170 --> 00:41:58.369 you so much for having me it's been really great 00:41:58.369 --> 00:42:00.349 and I really appreciate you having me on the 00:42:00.349 --> 00:42:04.079 podcast Thank you.