WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.559 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.940 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.640 sponsor is Octopus Energy. I've recently signed 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:35.799 up and have been totally won over by their mega 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:38.740 low rates and 15p per kilowatt buyback scheme 00:00:38.740 --> 00:00:41.640 for any solar power we aren't using. In just 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:43.740 a few minutes, I'd put in all my details and 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:45.460 they'd do the switch from your current provider 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:47.960 for you. It could not be simpler. Don't take 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.259 it from me though, over 6 million homes have 00:00:50.259 --> 00:00:52.560 made the sustainable switch. When you sign up 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.740 today using my code, we both get £50. It keeps 00:00:55.740 --> 00:00:57.920 me creating this free content for you guys and 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.719 you get cheaper energy. Double win. Head to the 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.579 link in the description below to make the switch 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:08.030 today. Now to the episode. Hello everybody and 00:01:08.030 --> 00:01:10.569 welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My 00:01:10.569 --> 00:01:12.969 name is Jordan and today I'm joined by speech 00:01:12.969 --> 00:01:15.450 and language therapist Kate Mills, who's katemills 00:01:15.450 --> 00:01:19.150 .slt on Instagram. Kate is a speech and language 00:01:19.150 --> 00:01:21.829 therapist based in South West London and works 00:01:21.829 --> 00:01:23.950 with children up to the age of 11, so the same 00:01:23.950 --> 00:01:26.290 as me. And I'm so excited to talk to her about 00:01:26.290 --> 00:01:28.790 guess -out language processing today, especially 00:01:28.790 --> 00:01:31.790 in the early years. I get so many questions about 00:01:31.790 --> 00:01:33.790 what it looks like for non -speaking children 00:01:33.790 --> 00:01:37.019 as well as... All the stages of gestalt language 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:38.840 processing. Maybe we could go through those today. 00:01:39.459 --> 00:01:41.640 Autism and, yeah, early years development in 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:46.120 general. Hello, Kate. Hello. I'm so pleased to 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:47.620 have you today. Thank you so much for accepting 00:01:47.620 --> 00:01:51.079 my invite. Thank you for inviting me. I am so 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:53.819 keen to talk about early years today. I get inundated 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:55.939 with questions whenever I talk about gestalt 00:01:55.939 --> 00:01:58.760 language processing. Let's start with a big question 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.439 that I always get. Can non -speaking children... 00:02:03.370 --> 00:02:05.909 be showing signs of gestalt language processing 00:02:05.909 --> 00:02:10.650 through how they play and how they imitate through 00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:15.080 their body. Can we talk there? Yes, we can. That's 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:18.580 a really good place to start, I think. So yes, 00:02:18.740 --> 00:02:21.060 we can definitely tell that a child is a gestalt 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:22.939 language processor, even if they're non -speaking. 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.300 Language processing is all about how we take 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:27.460 in language, right? So it's not about what we 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:29.960 express. So if they're non -speaking, they don't 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.819 have to be saying anything in order to show us 00:02:32.819 --> 00:02:35.740 that they can. that they process language in 00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:37.659 a particular way, but we just need to look out 00:02:37.659 --> 00:02:39.840 for the signs. And there are lots of different 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.659 signs that we can look out for. But if we're 00:02:41.659 --> 00:02:44.400 talking about those specific signs that are to 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.000 do with the way that they're using their body, 00:02:46.340 --> 00:02:48.819 there's something that's called echopraxia, where 00:02:48.819 --> 00:02:52.680 the child uses, they copy movements and actions 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.240 from particular shows or particular things that 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.939 they really enjoy, and they act things out with 00:02:57.939 --> 00:03:00.759 their body. And I find that so fascinating because 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:03.300 as soon as you notice it, it can be quite hard. 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:06.240 recognize but as soon as you notice it that's 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:08.979 when you realize like yes that is exactly how 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:11.659 they're processing language and if we can understand 00:03:11.659 --> 00:03:14.520 how they're taking language in then we can help 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.180 them figure out how to express in the best way 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:20.080 that's suitable to them so it's yeah that's one 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.460 of the kind of signs that you can look out for 00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:25.479 for non -speaking children but there are many 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.599 many other signs and quite often a really key 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:30.599 one for my non -speaking children is that I often 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.349 see them rewinding at certain parts of videos 00:03:33.349 --> 00:03:36.509 to re -watch certain parts that they really enjoy. 00:03:37.030 --> 00:03:41.069 And then they might act it out. They might imitate 00:03:41.069 --> 00:03:44.909 a sound that they've heard on it. They might 00:03:44.909 --> 00:03:47.210 just imitate the intonation that they're using. 00:03:47.430 --> 00:03:49.430 There are so many different things that they 00:03:49.430 --> 00:03:51.629 can do to show us how they process language. 00:03:51.710 --> 00:03:54.669 I find it so fascinating. It's so interesting. 00:03:55.129 --> 00:03:56.949 For me growing up, I mean, I've only heard of 00:03:56.949 --> 00:03:58.710 gestural language processing in the last couple 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:02.719 of years. But through my career, I've definitely 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.000 seen signs of that. I've definitely seen signs 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.860 of, yeah, rewinding VHS tapes. I mean, that's 00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:10.259 how old we're talking about here of rewinding 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:13.379 and rewatching and rewatching and going over 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.060 those phrases or just really enjoying that repetition. 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:20.720 How do we know if it's not a special interest 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.759 autism? that just gives them a dopamine hit and 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:26.439 it's gestalt language processing or is it kind 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:29.220 of all one and the same? I would say it's probably 00:04:29.220 --> 00:04:32.620 all the same because a child would maybe a child 00:04:32.620 --> 00:04:34.920 that is is just showing characteristics of autism 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.860 they might kind of do something over and over 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:40.300 again because they really enjoy that as you said 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:44.069 that dopamine hit but With a child that's rewinding 00:04:44.069 --> 00:04:46.569 a video, they would rewind it to such a specific 00:04:46.569 --> 00:04:49.990 part that they would rewatch that specific part. 00:04:50.149 --> 00:04:53.290 And when you tune into that and when you figure 00:04:53.290 --> 00:04:55.310 out what is it that they're actually watching, 00:04:55.529 --> 00:04:57.870 then that's when you can figure out, OK, is this 00:04:57.870 --> 00:05:01.569 just like an autistic characteristic or is it 00:05:01.569 --> 00:05:03.970 the fact that they really enjoy that specific 00:05:03.970 --> 00:05:06.629 part for that reason, whether it's the music? 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:10.800 the sounds the maybe the actions maybe the things 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.439 that are on the screen that's uh maybe it's the 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.519 particular character that comes on the screen 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:18.639 or something like that that will tell you that 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.199 that is a gestalt language processor so they 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.800 kind of overlap but I would say usually when 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:25.660 they're rewinding to that specific part that 00:05:25.660 --> 00:05:28.439 is a really kind of key characteristic that that 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.459 child is a gestalt language processor and they 00:05:31.459 --> 00:05:33.019 can do that obviously if they're speaking or 00:05:33.019 --> 00:05:36.240 non -speaking but we tend to see it with those 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.699 non -speaking children and that's in that's kind 00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:42.100 of a key sign that we notice. when they are non 00:05:42.100 --> 00:05:44.540 -speaking because we don't have any words to 00:05:44.540 --> 00:05:48.959 go off. So we go off what their actions are and 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:50.839 what they're actually doing with media that they're 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:54.540 watching. So if we're seeing that in a non -speaking 00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:57.600 child that we work with or live with, what can 00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:59.980 we be doing to encourage that communication, 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:04.519 encourage that interest in language to help their 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.720 development in? communication reception? So what 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:09.660 I would say is that the key thing is, is that 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.339 you want to watch that video back with them to 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.579 see exactly what it is that they're looking at. 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:17.879 And you might need to watch it a few times. Quite 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.199 often when children are watching something, usually 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:22.259 they're watching it on phones, I find, because 00:06:22.259 --> 00:06:24.339 then they can rewind it a bit easier. So if they're 00:06:24.339 --> 00:06:26.120 watching on a phone, I quite often say to parents, 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.259 just screenshot it so you can see what the minute 00:06:29.259 --> 00:06:32.000 is, what video it was, so you're not interrupting 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.970 that play. And then later on, watch that video 00:06:34.970 --> 00:06:37.889 back and see what is it that they're really enjoying 00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:40.490 and this is what we call detective work right 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:42.129 so we're figuring out we're being a detective 00:06:42.129 --> 00:06:45.500 we're figuring out What is it that's really interesting 00:06:45.500 --> 00:06:48.459 about this part of the video that means something 00:06:48.459 --> 00:06:52.699 to this child? And from there, once you've figured 00:06:52.699 --> 00:06:54.439 out, you may not be able to figure out exactly 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.019 what it is, but maybe you can, you know, maybe 00:06:57.019 --> 00:06:59.220 there's a song, maybe there's a sound, maybe 00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:01.660 there's a character, and then you can figure 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:03.819 out, you can try and use those different things 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:06.339 kind of throughout the day. Quite often it is 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:09.100 a phrase or a song that the child will enjoy, 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:11.660 not all the time, but if it is, use that phrase. 00:07:12.350 --> 00:07:14.529 make a note of that phrase make a note of how 00:07:14.529 --> 00:07:16.629 they say it maybe record it on your phone so 00:07:16.629 --> 00:07:18.790 that you remember and then use it with them either 00:07:18.790 --> 00:07:21.170 play it back to them or say it yourself in the 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:23.649 the same way that the character is saying it 00:07:23.649 --> 00:07:26.290 and use it at different points throughout the 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:29.009 day that is always a really key one because that 00:07:29.009 --> 00:07:31.209 phrase obviously means something to that child 00:07:31.209 --> 00:07:33.870 so we want to show them there are lots of different 00:07:33.870 --> 00:07:36.610 ways that you can use this phrase even if it's 00:07:36.610 --> 00:07:39.670 not exactly in context, because it is in context 00:07:39.670 --> 00:07:42.069 for the child. It just might not be for, you 00:07:42.069 --> 00:07:44.129 know, if you don't understand that phrase or 00:07:44.129 --> 00:07:45.930 that situation that they've picked it up from, 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.069 you might not necessarily understand that that 00:07:48.069 --> 00:07:51.290 means something to them, but it does. So we're 00:07:51.290 --> 00:07:52.850 going to use it in lots of different contexts, 00:07:52.889 --> 00:07:55.470 even if it's not a perfect fit for that context. 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:58.430 Absolutely. I'll give some examples, actually. 00:07:58.550 --> 00:08:00.949 I've got some beautiful Gestalt language processors 00:08:00.949 --> 00:08:03.389 in my classroom and I find it so fascinating 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:06.769 what phrases they're picking and how they're 00:08:06.769 --> 00:08:08.709 using them in context. So, for example, I've 00:08:08.709 --> 00:08:11.769 got one student who, when he needs something 00:08:11.769 --> 00:08:16.089 from us, he takes a statement from number blocks 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:18.970 and it's, I need a friend to give me a push. 00:08:19.310 --> 00:08:22.990 And it's because in that context in the show. 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:26.139 he's on the swing on his own and he needs a friend 00:08:26.139 --> 00:08:29.060 to come over and help him push the swing but 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:31.040 he'll use this when he wants a drink when he 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:32.700 wants to go to the toilet when he wants like 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:34.940 help with anything it's a need to friend to give 00:08:34.940 --> 00:08:36.600 me a push and it's great because now we know 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:40.860 that it gives that context to his meaning behind 00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:43.639 that and then we can help him and we can yeah 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:45.960 honor that attempt of communication I suppose 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.000 I've also had some others as well that They will 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.360 say a phrase when they know I want an answer 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.620 from them, but they don't really know what answer 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:57.500 I want or need. So it might be good morning and 00:08:57.500 --> 00:09:00.139 I'm waiting for a good morning, a hello or anything. 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.019 And then they'll say something seemingly completely 00:09:03.019 --> 00:09:06.059 random. And in my view, it's just because they 00:09:06.059 --> 00:09:08.320 know I want them to say something and they don't 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.139 really know what it was that I want them to say. 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.580 And this phrase sounds good in my mouth and feels 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:15.799 good for me. is that you that you're wanting 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.019 is that kind of gestalt language processing as 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:21.720 well so quite often that happens with gestalt 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:23.860 language processors because they're taking a 00:09:23.860 --> 00:09:26.240 phrase from their bank of phrases that they've 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.340 already got and they're just using it to kind 00:09:28.340 --> 00:09:31.299 of put in place so it may be that they just don't 00:09:31.299 --> 00:09:33.639 have enough phrases so they're just using whatever 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:35.519 phrase they already have and they're using it 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:38.929 within that situation or maybe they are used 00:09:38.929 --> 00:09:41.669 to being prompted with an interaction and they 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:44.029 think, well, when someone says this, this is 00:09:44.029 --> 00:09:46.470 what I have to say. So they're used to that prompting, 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:49.389 which is not helpful for a gestalt language processor 00:09:49.389 --> 00:09:52.710 because they're used to developing language naturally 00:09:52.710 --> 00:09:56.009 and they don't respond well to prompting and 00:09:56.009 --> 00:09:59.169 giving them prompts for different things. So 00:09:59.169 --> 00:10:01.389 I would say within that situation, the best thing 00:10:01.389 --> 00:10:04.289 to do is to give them a phrase for what they 00:10:04.289 --> 00:10:07.789 are trying to say. So maybe it's that we try. 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.080 and reduce our questions or eliminate our questions, 00:10:10.139 --> 00:10:12.100 especially if they're an early stage gestalt 00:10:12.100 --> 00:10:17.190 language processor. Or maybe we... ask a question 00:10:17.190 --> 00:10:19.250 but we give an answer for it so that they've 00:10:19.250 --> 00:10:21.409 got a phrase that they can use so they're just 00:10:21.409 --> 00:10:23.389 not they're not drawing from this bank of phrases 00:10:23.389 --> 00:10:25.590 they have because that's not enough for them 00:10:25.590 --> 00:10:28.330 to be able to answer and that's why we see children 00:10:28.330 --> 00:10:30.529 struggling to answer questions in those early 00:10:30.529 --> 00:10:32.929 stages is because they either just don't have 00:10:32.929 --> 00:10:35.330 enough phrases in their bank or they're just 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:38.269 not ready to use flexible language so they're 00:10:38.269 --> 00:10:41.889 not able to answer a question and That's different 00:10:41.889 --> 00:10:44.590 from receptive language. They might be able to 00:10:44.590 --> 00:10:46.870 understand what you're asking them, but they 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:50.190 might not have the expression in order to answer 00:10:50.190 --> 00:10:53.409 that question fully. So maybe offering a sound 00:10:53.409 --> 00:10:56.970 button or a gesture or something to just completely 00:10:56.970 --> 00:10:59.610 reduce that demand for communication in that 00:10:59.610 --> 00:11:02.639 context. While also offering a phrase that they 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.940 can use if they want to. Exactly. So we want 00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:09.080 to offer a phrase in whatever form that might 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.360 be. So it might be spoken. It might be through 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.240 the use of AAC. It might be low tech. So it might 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.840 be paper based. It might be using a sound button. 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:20.740 I often find that sound buttons or high tech 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:23.700 AAC is really good for gestalt language processors 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:27.200 because they love that auditory aspect of it. 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:30.289 So they love listening to it. Yeah, and it's 00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:32.429 the same every time. Whereas obviously paper 00:11:32.429 --> 00:11:34.629 -based, if we're talking about it, our inflection 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:36.649 might change, our pace might change, and then 00:11:36.649 --> 00:11:40.139 it's not the same for them. And for them, it's 00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:42.220 that whole chunk that they're taking in, right? 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.460 So it's not just the phrase. It's the melody 00:11:45.460 --> 00:11:47.779 that goes with the phrase as well. And that's 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:49.639 why it's so important that we keep it the same. 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:52.860 Sound buttons are so helpful because we can record 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:55.779 it with intonation. You can obviously do that 00:11:55.779 --> 00:11:59.840 on high -tech AAC as well. But on a sound button, 00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:01.399 it's just there. It's really quick. It's really 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.240 easy to press. And yeah, it offers a different 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.700 way of communicating it. We're accepting any 00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:09.379 form of communication. within that interaction 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:12.620 but we're offering an alternative way to engage 00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:15.179 in that interaction and that is so beneficial 00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:16.940 for the child because then they've got a way 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.840 to communicate with you. Absolutely and I love 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.580 recording them doing it too because then they 00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:24.559 can listen back to their own voice it then helps 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:26.779 them to hear their phrase and their voice in 00:12:26.779 --> 00:12:29.399 a completely different way than how they usually 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:31.200 are and they just seem really interested in this 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.179 and it's really is investing in their phrase. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.600 and give it, well, honoring its meaning to them. 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:40.559 Definitely. One of the toys that I actually use 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.879 a lot within my therapy sessions is one of those 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.159 talking parrots where you talk to it and then 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.679 it talks back. And it's the best thing because 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:50.220 sometimes children that I haven't heard using 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:52.440 phrases, but I've heard them using those long, 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:54.879 unintelligible strings of language. Sometimes 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:56.720 I'll give them that toy and then they'll start 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.259 talking to it. And it's like, because they're 00:12:59.259 --> 00:13:02.820 hearing themselves back, they're echoing all 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.970 the... the parrot is echoing them so they're 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:08.370 hearing themselves back and then they're going 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:10.289 that wasn't very clear let me say it again let 00:13:10.289 --> 00:13:12.330 me try again let me make it clearer and then 00:13:12.330 --> 00:13:15.149 they use more language they're they're trying 00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:17.750 to communicate so much more and it's just amazing 00:13:17.750 --> 00:13:19.389 to see and that's the same thing that the sound 00:13:19.389 --> 00:13:21.610 button does but obviously it's a bit more you 00:13:21.610 --> 00:13:24.129 have to press it and do whatever you need to 00:13:24.129 --> 00:13:26.029 do to record it so it's a bit harder for the 00:13:26.029 --> 00:13:28.450 child to do but a toy like that especially in 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:30.710 early years is so engaging and so interesting 00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.860 for them yeah i mean god what how motivating 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:36.139 and it also puts it in like a higher pitch as 00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:38.759 well so it makes it even more inviting to listen 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.200 to exactly yeah we've had some lots of to and 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.500 fro's with yeah like you say talking parrots 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:46.379 singing cactuses there's all sorts of wonderful 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:49.080 repetitive toys up there isn't there now and 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.440 we're so lucky to live in this kind of generation 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.620 i suppose of There's such great electronic toys 00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:57.460 out there, which suits Gestalt language processors 00:13:57.460 --> 00:14:00.639 so much. When I was growing up, Gestalt language 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.379 processors would have to have a VHS and literally 00:14:03.379 --> 00:14:06.919 rewind and fast forward. And like, it was fine. 00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:10.139 But I can imagine now with high tech AAC, you 00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:12.639 know, it's all on tablets with BBC iPlayer on 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:14.179 their tablets. You know, I've got some students 00:14:14.179 --> 00:14:16.940 that literally talk through BBC iPlayer. They'll 00:14:16.940 --> 00:14:18.740 find a different program, a different section, 00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.360 and they'll be talking through that. Yeah, sound 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.299 buttons, all these toys. We're just so... I'm 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:26.799 so fortunate and I'm so excited for what it's 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:28.820 going to be in the next 20 years, you know, what 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:31.159 that's going to look like. Now we're understanding 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.419 gestalt language processing and speech and language 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:37.000 in general just so much more. Exactly. We've 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.620 spoken a little bit about how high -tech and 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:40.460 low -tech can support gestalt language processing. 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:43.840 Is there anything we can do to make low -tech, 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:46.480 you know, some schools and parents are waiting 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.259 the lengthy process of having a high -tech AAC 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.259 device or... Funding for sound buttons and electronic 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:54.639 toys. Meanwhile, obviously we want something. 00:14:55.179 --> 00:14:59.620 Are visuals and low -tech AAC worth trying with 00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:01.559 desktop language processing? What are some ways 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.580 that we can utilize those to really support learning 00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:07.200 whilst we're waiting for these more expensive 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.879 resources? Definitely. It's definitely worth 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.419 trying low -tech. Just because I've said that 00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:16.460 children that are gestalt language processors, 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:18.799 they like that auditory feedback. They like to 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.919 listen to it in the same way every time. They 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.120 like that intonation and melody. It doesn't mean 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.240 to say that you can't use low -tech. Low -tech 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.379 can be just as good paper -based. is absolutely 00:15:29.379 --> 00:15:31.779 fine. But we just have to remember to be the 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:35.059 model that does that intonation for them. Some 00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:38.879 gestalt language processes can be cognitive gestalt 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.980 language processes as well. And they like to 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:44.340 read the words on the AAC, whatever that might 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.580 be, whether it's low tech, mid tech, high tech. 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.120 So having a paper base can actually be really 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.799 helpful for those children that really like reading 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.139 because they can actually read the phrase that 00:15:54.139 --> 00:15:57.750 you've written on the board. Interesting. So 00:15:57.750 --> 00:16:00.169 I have quite a few children who I do use low 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:02.750 tech with because they prefer it over the high 00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:04.909 tech because they can read it in the way that 00:16:04.909 --> 00:16:08.590 they intended for it to be. And it really solidifies 00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:11.490 their language even more so than just having 00:16:11.490 --> 00:16:14.710 spoken language or sometimes they don't enjoy 00:16:14.710 --> 00:16:17.889 high tech as much. I would say it's not to do 00:16:17.889 --> 00:16:21.509 with how you process language as to which AAC 00:16:21.509 --> 00:16:24.210 you're choosing. It's more about the individual 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:26.950 child and what works for them. So the best way 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.990 to look at it is can we, what their strengths 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:32.730 are, can we look at what they enjoy and then 00:16:32.730 --> 00:16:35.029 figure out from there, try out a few different 00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:38.850 types of AAC and then go from there. But definitely 00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:42.029 start with low tech, start with a board with 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:45.039 lots of different phrases on it. lots of different 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.720 communication functions and model it with intonation 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.100 when you're modeling it. So maybe the child points 00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:53.080 to the phrase that they want to communicate, 00:16:53.259 --> 00:16:55.220 or maybe they're just exploring and they point 00:16:55.220 --> 00:16:58.539 to a phrase, then you can model that phrase back 00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:00.860 to them, but with that melodic intonation in 00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:03.220 your voice. So there's definitely ways around 00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:05.559 it. There are definitely ways that we can use 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:07.960 low -tech and there are children that prefer 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.380 low -tech. It's not a case of one's better than 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:13.079 the other. So interesting. I know maybe we should 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.700 talk about the stages actually because it obviously 00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:20.539 starts with whole phrase and it gives it meaning 00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:23.339 but then it it develops you hope but you know 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:26.339 it seems that they go through these stages so 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.140 we've spoken a little bit about what it looks 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:29.660 like when they're non -speaking we've spoken 00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:31.720 a little bit about what it looks like when they've 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:33.819 got these whole phrases that they've learned 00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:37.299 that mean something to them what is the next 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:40.079 step what are we looking for to know that learners 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:44.210 are kind of moving on to this to the next stage 00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:47.950 stage two Yeah. So with the different stages, 00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:51.150 so we've got six different stages that our gestalt 00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:53.170 language processes go through. It's called natural 00:17:53.170 --> 00:17:56.410 language acquisition framework. And in stage 00:17:56.410 --> 00:17:58.089 one is where we're talking about that whole chunk 00:17:58.089 --> 00:18:00.210 that we've just spoken about. So that whole phrase 00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:03.029 that they've learned. And then when we get into 00:18:03.029 --> 00:18:05.150 stage two, that's when they start mitigating 00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:07.710 or breaking apart or mixing and matching phrases. 00:18:08.029 --> 00:18:11.789 So it might be like time to go outside and let's 00:18:11.789 --> 00:18:13.769 go to the toilet. And then they swap them around 00:18:13.769 --> 00:18:15.740 and they say time to go to the toilet. Did I 00:18:15.740 --> 00:18:17.240 get that the right way around? You'd swap it 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.460 round. So they would take part of one phrase, 00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:21.900 part of another phrase and swap it so that they're 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.799 mixing and matching. To give it a different meaning 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.220 or to make it more meaningful? Is that kind of 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:27.240 what they're playing with there? Yeah, they're 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.650 just... playing with language and taking part 00:18:29.650 --> 00:18:31.410 of one phrase and taking part of another phrase 00:18:31.410 --> 00:18:33.769 and mixing and matching it. So they're realising 00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:35.390 that these phrases can be broken up and still 00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:37.930 have meaning rather than it can only be whole. 00:18:38.089 --> 00:18:41.230 Okay. Yeah, exactly. So they're sort of playing 00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:43.250 around with it to see what else they can do with 00:18:43.250 --> 00:18:46.109 language. If you think about an analytic language 00:18:46.109 --> 00:18:48.950 processor, so a child that learns language through 00:18:48.950 --> 00:18:50.970 single words and then two word phrases and then 00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:54.089 onwards to full phrases, they would be playing 00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:55.990 around with different words and seeing how they 00:18:55.990 --> 00:18:58.019 fit together when they... get to that two two 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:01.180 word stage so they'd have the word biscuit and 00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:04.099 then they'd say more biscuit mummy biscuit you 00:19:04.099 --> 00:19:05.819 know they'd be putting those two words together 00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:08.779 it's the exact same for a gestalt language processor 00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:11.220 in stage two it just looks a bit different in 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:15.119 terms of they take They break their phrase apart 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.279 and they stick it together with other phrases 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.039 to see what they can do with it. Then we get 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.500 to stage three where they start using those single 00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:25.500 words and two word phrases a bit more. Which 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.660 I think is really interesting because so often 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:30.980 it looks like they're going backwards because 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.299 they've had these whole phrases that are beautifully 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:36.339 grammatically correct, that are said in the correct 00:19:36.339 --> 00:19:39.509 order. And then all of a sudden, they're saying 00:19:39.509 --> 00:19:44.930 non -words like flied. They flied away or they, 00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:47.970 like, you know, all the words are kind of a bit 00:19:47.970 --> 00:19:50.130 jumbled up and then it sounds not grammatically 00:19:50.130 --> 00:19:52.549 correct. And lots of people that aren't understanding 00:19:52.549 --> 00:19:55.410 the stages of gestaltlanguages might think they're 00:19:55.410 --> 00:19:58.650 going backwards. Not. They used to say that beautifully 00:19:58.650 --> 00:20:01.640 and now they're not. Now they're... saying a 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.180 bit jumbled or they're saying in past tense when 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:06.259 it should be present or whatever. But really, 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:07.980 that's really exciting, isn't it? That's the 00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:10.160 exciting stuff because they're then generating 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.720 those words on their own. You know, they haven't 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.700 heard that anywhere else. I heard one the other 00:20:15.700 --> 00:20:17.940 day and that's when I knew that my student had 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:19.680 got to this next stage. We were watching the 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.400 Gruffalo and it's where the Gruffalo spins the 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.920 mouse around. And he said, Gruffalo spanned mouse 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.519 around. And I said, he's never heard spanned 00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:32.430 before. isn't a word that made that up you know 00:20:32.430 --> 00:20:34.670 it's come from somewhere else he hasn't heard 00:20:34.670 --> 00:20:37.150 that phrase before that's so exciting and I could 00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:39.690 like I was almost dancing I was like oh my goodness 00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:42.509 because before it was all learned phrases so 00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:46.450 but from an untrained ear that would be that 00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:48.529 would be seen as a backward step because before 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:50.730 he would always say it perfectly and grammatically 00:20:50.730 --> 00:20:53.230 correct because he was saying the learnt phrase 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:56.309 that it says in the programme. I think it's so 00:20:56.309 --> 00:20:58.549 important to understand the stages because if 00:20:58.549 --> 00:21:00.589 you don't understand the stages, you don't understand 00:21:00.589 --> 00:21:02.650 where you're going with therapy because it does 00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:05.089 seem really backwards. But it's not actually 00:21:05.089 --> 00:21:07.529 backwards. It's just that the Gestalt language 00:21:07.529 --> 00:21:10.230 processor has two more stages to get to before 00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:12.710 they meet the analytic language processors at 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:14.869 the point where they start. So they've got these 00:21:14.869 --> 00:21:18.029 phrases, these stages, sorry, of whole phrases 00:21:18.029 --> 00:21:20.339 and then... breaking apart and mixing and matching 00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:23.099 phrases. And then they get to the single words, 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:25.079 which is where the analytic language processes 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.099 start. So it's so important if you think a child 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:31.619 you're working with or your child is a gestalt 00:21:31.619 --> 00:21:34.880 language processor, it is so important to do 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.079 your research and figure out what these different 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.519 stages are so you can understand it better. And 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:41.880 the reason why they don't get to that grammar 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.099 until later is because their grammar is going 00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:46.859 to be good when they're copying chunks because 00:21:46.859 --> 00:21:50.759 they are echoing. what they've heard. And more 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.039 often than not, we are going to use good grammar 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.700 when we're modelling phrases or especially when 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:58.039 they're reading it in books or listening to it 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.599 on audio tapes or watching TV shows. More often 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:03.579 than not, it is going to be good grammar. Sometimes 00:22:03.579 --> 00:22:06.519 you do get children that use bad grammar, but 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.640 it's in those early stages. But if you figure 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.900 out, do that detective work that I spoke about 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:13.200 and figure out where did they get that phrase 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.779 from, then you will understand that, okay, that 00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:19.509 phrase was fully echoed from. the show or from 00:22:19.509 --> 00:22:22.109 the person. Like in some shows, like Peppa Pig, 00:22:22.170 --> 00:22:25.210 for example, or Bing, because they're childlike 00:22:25.210 --> 00:22:27.430 characters, the childlike characters often says 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:30.109 things like in a childlike way, which I almost 00:22:30.109 --> 00:22:31.710 hate for Guess What Language Phrases because 00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:34.990 it's teaching the wrong phrase. But Guess What 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.269 Language Phrases love those kind of really emotive. 00:22:37.730 --> 00:22:40.089 But Bing has fantastic intonation. I feel like 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:41.710 lots of my guest up language processors love 00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:44.710 Bing and relate to him in lots of ways, but often 00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:46.769 doesn't say things grammatically correct. So 00:22:46.769 --> 00:22:48.809 that's when you might get those kind of crazy. 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:53.029 Yeah. And sometimes I think another thing to 00:22:53.029 --> 00:22:54.710 touch upon is that's really important to know 00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:57.049 is that if you speak more than one language at 00:22:57.049 --> 00:23:02.470 home, it's so important to do your GLP therapy. 00:23:03.099 --> 00:23:05.720 in your home language, in your strongest language, 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.779 because you potentially will be modelling bad 00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:11.740 grammar in English if you're not strong enough 00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:14.880 in English. And that could cause some difficulties 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.819 or it might make it harder for us to understand 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:20.539 where that child is at. But it's so important 00:23:20.539 --> 00:23:24.119 that that child hears their home language, for 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.680 one, and has that cultural identity, but then 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.839 also gets a really good, accurate model of language. 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:31.920 in whatever language you're speaking to them 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.099 in that context at home they would maybe get 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:38.180 in their home language and then at school they 00:23:38.180 --> 00:23:41.460 might be getting their you know whatever country 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:45.400 they're living in language and then is that okay 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.200 to be like a dual language is it harder is it 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.230 the same so There's so much research on bilingualism 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:56.869 now, which I'm so happy about. So it's always 00:23:56.869 --> 00:23:59.109 a positive for a child to speak more than one 00:23:59.109 --> 00:24:00.849 language because essentially you're giving them 00:24:00.849 --> 00:24:04.349 more words and more ways of saying things. So 00:24:04.349 --> 00:24:08.470 regardless of the child's ability, their age, 00:24:08.730 --> 00:24:11.940 their stage, whatever, it doesn't matter. Speaking 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:15.380 more than one language is really good for cognition, 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:20.019 language and learning development. So I always, 00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.359 always say, please speak in your home language 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:25.000 if you want to. It can be really natural for 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:27.839 people to speak in more than one language, even 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:30.539 within the same environment. So maybe at home 00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:33.319 they speak English and whatever their home language 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.720 is. And that's also OK because that's what you 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.559 naturally do. I would just say. regardless of 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.480 whether your child is a gestalt language processor 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.180 or an analytic language processor, whether they're 00:24:44.180 --> 00:24:46.059 autistic, whether they have a language disorder, 00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:49.400 it doesn't matter. Speak in your most comfortable 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:51.400 language, whether that's mixing between them, 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:54.079 whether that's just speaking in your home language 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.059 at home and then the child's just getting there, 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.700 if it's English or whatever at school, that's 00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:00.579 okay. They will pick up on language. It will 00:25:00.579 --> 00:25:04.279 give them more opportunities to hear different 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:07.250 words and different phrases. And I suppose if 00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:09.650 the parents have different home languages, then 00:25:09.650 --> 00:25:11.849 they would speak their home languages and the 00:25:11.849 --> 00:25:13.930 children also would get a benefit of that too. 00:25:14.369 --> 00:25:17.029 Exactly. Makes it harder for people that then 00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:18.890 don't speak the language. But that's the same 00:25:18.890 --> 00:25:21.410 with every child, right? You would just learn 00:25:21.410 --> 00:25:23.809 a phrase. Usually that's what we do when we work 00:25:23.809 --> 00:25:25.650 with children is that we learn the phrase that 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:27.869 they like. We might not use it ourselves, but 00:25:27.869 --> 00:25:29.569 then at least we're listening out for it. So 00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:31.490 we understand what it means when they are communicating 00:25:31.490 --> 00:25:34.329 it. But it's such an important thing to kind 00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:36.759 of mention because... So many people will say, 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.200 well, I can't now use my home language because 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.039 it's going to make such a difference and it's 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.259 going to delay their language. It doesn't cause 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:45.819 any delays. Speak it. We need to make sure we're 00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:47.799 keeping that cultural identity for that child. 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:50.640 And it is actually really beneficial. So just 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.759 use it. It's really helpful. And that's something 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.380 I really didn't know, especially about the gestalt 00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:57.740 language processes and any kind of cognitive 00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:00.039 disability that it wouldn't hinder, which is 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.000 great. I hear it about visuals as well. You know, 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.420 if I use visuals or AAC, maybe they'll never 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:06.019 speak. And it's the same, isn't it? It's just 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:08.039 offering, I guess, for the same reason. It's 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.240 offering just more language, just more opportunity, 00:26:10.579 --> 00:26:14.839 more words. So it's all good. Exactly, exactly. 00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:17.940 And I think with everything, we question things 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:20.480 too much, which is great that we're kind of questioning 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.579 what we're doing and how we're supporting. But 00:26:22.579 --> 00:26:25.059 sometimes I think we overthink it. And it's just 00:26:25.059 --> 00:26:28.299 a case of use as much language, as much visuals, 00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:31.440 as many visuals, as much as you can in order 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:33.380 to support that language development. It doesn't 00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:35.279 really matter what it looks like. Everything 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:38.519 we do is going to be supporting them. So whether 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:40.200 that's speaking another language, whether it's 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.750 using. gestures instead of Makaton signs because 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:44.990 you don't know them then that's still beneficial 00:26:44.990 --> 00:26:49.490 obviously the ideal is to use as much as many 00:26:49.490 --> 00:26:51.470 different types of communication as we possibly 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:55.130 can to support the child to develop that language 00:26:55.130 --> 00:26:56.869 and that community those communication skills 00:26:56.869 --> 00:26:59.890 so yeah it's really really important that you 00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:01.950 use as much as you can that's really helpful 00:27:01.950 --> 00:27:04.890 you said that get out language process stages 00:27:04.890 --> 00:27:08.130 kind of then catches up with analytical stages 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:11.720 in your experience is it Do they always eventually 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.420 get there or not? I suppose that's something 00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:17.259 that a lot of parents would not show. Like, will 00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:19.539 my child, if they're showing those early signs 00:27:19.539 --> 00:27:24.240 of whole phrase learning, will they always catch 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.619 up? Or sometimes do they stay at a certain stage 00:27:27.619 --> 00:27:31.660 and then? Yeah, they might just stay at a certain 00:27:31.660 --> 00:27:33.940 stage. It's one of those things that's impossible 00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:37.099 to predict. It's like when parents ask, is a 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:39.200 non -speaking child going to speak? I don't know. 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.019 I can't predict how the child is going to react. 00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:46.079 All I can do is use these strategies with this 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.859 child and use AAC so that we're giving them a 00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:52.619 different mode of communication and then seeing 00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:55.640 from there, do they develop? language do they 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.200 move through the stages another thing with gestalt 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.579 language processes is often they're in more than 00:28:00.579 --> 00:28:03.519 one stage at one time so it's not just that they'll 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.619 just be in stage one they could be in stage one 00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:09.039 and two they could be in i've seen a child that's 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.799 been in all of the different stages all at once 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.640 but so they could be in multiple stages in one 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:16.500 go but if they're just in stage one and they're 00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:19.119 in those early stages and we we use aac and we're 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.829 not seeing any kind of change we might be thinking 00:28:21.829 --> 00:28:23.809 we're using the right approach is there anything 00:28:23.809 --> 00:28:26.490 we can do to change it and we'll be kind of problem 00:28:26.490 --> 00:28:30.309 solving to see what can we do to give this child 00:28:30.309 --> 00:28:32.650 the best opportunity to develop their language 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:35.210 but it is impossible to predict if they're going 00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:38.309 to move through the stages or not yeah that makes 00:28:38.309 --> 00:28:42.470 so much sense and I get lots of messages as well 00:28:42.470 --> 00:28:45.829 from early years teachers who are now SEN teachers. 00:28:46.109 --> 00:28:48.750 I mean, all teachers are SEN teachers now. So 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:51.210 often they end up in my DM saying, I've got this 00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:55.049 kid. What do I do? As a speech and language therapist, 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:58.910 what are some things that you would hope to see 00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:02.799 in an earlier setting? that can kind of support 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.980 all children because let's face it at that stage 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:07.880 so many children now are coming into early years 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.220 with undeveloped or pre -developed speech or 00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.839 yeah usually not understanding actually it's 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.180 usually like speech what are some things that 00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:18.359 earlier settings can put in place to support 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.920 all children to help understand language and 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.640 communicate better Yeah, so that's a big question. 00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:29.039 But I think the key things that I would think 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.960 about would be how can I make the environment 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:35.059 friendly and communication friendly for everyone? 00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:37.680 So one of the things I would think about is using 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.980 a visual timetable that lays out the structure 00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:44.099 of the day. We don't want it to be overly complicated 00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:45.779 because then that's going to make it really hard 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:47.920 for you to keep up with it. And it's going to 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.700 make it really visually overstimulating for all 00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:53.819 children. But using a visual timetable can just 00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:55.880 be for those key events that happen. Those key 00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.859 changes can be really helpful. And when you're 00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:00.900 using the visual timetable, try and use it in 00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:03.299 the same way every time. So, you know, if we 00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:05.880 have it up, we're just going to have it up vertically 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.460 in the classroom every day. Keep it in the same 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:11.119 place. Keep it in the same structure. We're not 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:12.920 going to have it vertically on the board one 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:14.599 day and then horizontally on the wall the other 00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.210 day. We're going to keep it the same. And when 00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:19.289 you're using the visual timetable, just to make 00:30:19.289 --> 00:30:21.589 sure that you're showing the children what's 00:30:21.589 --> 00:30:24.589 happening. So you're kind of showing the visual 00:30:24.589 --> 00:30:27.329 and labeling it and saying it's time for circle 00:30:27.329 --> 00:30:29.589 time. And then you're sticking it back on to 00:30:29.589 --> 00:30:31.369 show them that's what's happening now. And then 00:30:31.369 --> 00:30:33.049 when you finish, you're taking it off to show 00:30:33.049 --> 00:30:34.730 them it's finished and you're putting it away. 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:36.890 So the way I say it is when someone walks into 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:39.609 your room, anyone will be able to tell what lesson 00:30:39.609 --> 00:30:41.250 you're in because they'll be able to look at 00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:44.160 the visual timetable. There are so many, so many 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.880 reasons why visual timetables help, but they 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.000 can be really good for expression as well, because 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.839 as well as understanding. Usually we think it 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.160 just supports with understanding, but it's not 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.220 just understanding that it helps because yes, 00:30:56.259 --> 00:30:58.099 you're using a visual to help them understand 00:30:58.099 --> 00:31:01.619 what's happening throughout the day, but you're 00:31:01.619 --> 00:31:04.599 also giving the child an opportunity to then 00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:06.480 communicate something that they want because 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.559 they might go up to the visual timetable and 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.210 point or they might. pull off something and show 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:15.269 you. So definitely use a visual timetable really 00:31:15.269 --> 00:31:19.890 consistently. Try not to over clutter your space 00:31:19.890 --> 00:31:23.029 because a really busy environment can be very 00:31:23.029 --> 00:31:26.589 overstimulating for a lot of children. Lots of 00:31:26.589 --> 00:31:28.950 people just relate that to supporting autistic 00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:31.269 children. But I would say it's not just about 00:31:31.269 --> 00:31:34.740 a busy environment doesn't just. distract autistic 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:37.019 children it distracts children with language 00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:41.099 difficulties with lots of different um neurotypes 00:31:41.099 --> 00:31:45.359 it does kind of it can also but still be visually 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.220 cluttered can't it so yeah if you've got clear 00:31:48.220 --> 00:31:50.400 boxes they could everything could be tucked away 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.000 but it's still quite visually cluttered so you 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:54.900 could have a curtain over or you could have opaque 00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:57.750 boxes it's things like that as well as Obviously, 00:31:57.750 --> 00:31:59.490 if it is actually cluttered, then that's a problem 00:31:59.490 --> 00:32:01.650 too. Everything could be away and it could be 00:32:01.650 --> 00:32:04.069 quite a tidy classroom, but it could be quite 00:32:04.069 --> 00:32:09.609 bright or quite patterned. Exactly. And when 00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:12.490 we have display boards, we quite often like to 00:32:12.490 --> 00:32:14.809 make them look really jazzy and interesting. 00:32:15.009 --> 00:32:17.289 But that can be really distracting sometimes. 00:32:17.430 --> 00:32:19.430 So I would say keep them really simple if you 00:32:19.430 --> 00:32:21.890 can. Just you're still displaying things that 00:32:21.890 --> 00:32:24.009 you need to display or that you want to display, 00:32:24.150 --> 00:32:27.400 but you're not over. It's not becoming overstimulating. 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:29.640 I see all these lovely things on Instagram where 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:31.619 teachers are making all these amazing boards. 00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:35.059 And I just think. that's great but we need to 00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:37.460 make sure that they're not too much because if 00:32:37.460 --> 00:32:39.759 they've got things popping out of them and they've 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:41.619 got loads of bright colours and loads of patterns 00:32:41.619 --> 00:32:44.339 and loads of shapes it can be so overstimulating 00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:47.359 for any child. So just try and reduce that a 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.240 little bit and see if that kind of... Is that 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.220 including visuals? So if you have lots of core 00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:54.819 boards out and visuals and symbols out and about 00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:57.259 can that also be overwhelming and overstimulating 00:32:57.259 --> 00:33:00.539 or is that not an issue because it's, I don't 00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:04.009 know, helpful? I don't know. How much is too 00:33:04.009 --> 00:33:07.349 much? Yeah, I would say there's still got to 00:33:07.349 --> 00:33:10.710 be a balance of that, right? So we don't want 00:33:10.710 --> 00:33:12.789 to have too many different communication aids 00:33:12.789 --> 00:33:14.890 out all in one go because that will be really 00:33:14.890 --> 00:33:17.509 overwhelming. And the way I think of it is if 00:33:17.509 --> 00:33:20.769 it's overwhelming for me, it's definitely overwhelming 00:33:20.769 --> 00:33:23.650 for a child. So just making sure that you've 00:33:23.650 --> 00:33:27.230 got the things out that you need. no extras you 00:33:27.230 --> 00:33:29.470 know we're not going to put out loads and loads 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:31.069 of different visuals for loads and loads of different 00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:32.609 things but we've got the things that we need 00:33:32.609 --> 00:33:34.750 and we're putting away the things that we don't 00:33:34.750 --> 00:33:36.849 need right now so that we're keeping that space 00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:39.269 clear the environment needs to be really consistent 00:33:39.269 --> 00:33:42.170 so keeping things if you've got a visual in a 00:33:42.170 --> 00:33:45.170 set place that can stay but if there are visuals 00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:48.490 or um aac that you're using for a particular 00:33:48.490 --> 00:33:52.180 activity then by all means you know bring it 00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:54.140 out for that activity but then put it away afterwards 00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.660 because otherwise it can be a bit too much so 00:33:56.660 --> 00:33:58.279 I would say it's all about getting that balance 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.640 between how much you're actually using and how 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.900 much you're kind of making sure that you're tidying 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.400 it away when you don't need it yeah that makes 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.200 so much sense and then I suppose we were talking 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.219 about languages before but then symbol languages 00:34:10.110 --> 00:34:12.250 is an interesting one i've been into classrooms 00:34:12.250 --> 00:34:15.409 that have i don't know twinkle visuals for their 00:34:15.409 --> 00:34:18.150 timetable but then they have a student using 00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:21.130 proloquo aac so that's symbol sticks and then 00:34:21.130 --> 00:34:23.750 they also have widget symbols that are for their 00:34:23.750 --> 00:34:28.449 choice boards and around school does that is 00:34:28.449 --> 00:34:30.369 that the same as using lots of different languages 00:34:30.369 --> 00:34:32.389 and it's all okay or is actually could that be 00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:33.829 quite confusing for the child because there's 00:34:33.829 --> 00:34:35.730 lots of different symbols meaning the same thing 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:38.599 Some children might be able to cope with that 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:42.079 and they might be able to understand all these 00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:45.219 different symbol languages, as you put. But some 00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:48.119 children might find that really tricky because 00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:51.699 it's a different way of saying the same thing. 00:34:52.099 --> 00:34:57.980 It's like giving them a whole different system 00:34:57.980 --> 00:35:01.420 for exactly the same thing. I would say if you 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:03.659 can keep it consistent, then keep it consistent. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.539 But sometimes we can't because we don't have 00:35:05.539 --> 00:35:07.460 access to the right resources. Interestingly, 00:35:07.699 --> 00:35:09.320 there's like, we used to think there's like this 00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:13.059 hierarchy of which kind of visuals are easier 00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:15.260 to understand and which ones are harder. But 00:35:15.260 --> 00:35:17.739 we now think that it's actually down to sort 00:35:17.739 --> 00:35:20.380 of more preference as to what the child enjoys. 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.300 There is not that one thing's easier than another. 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:26.320 Some children like pictures so we can use pictures 00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:30.059 to support them. Some children, they... able 00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:32.380 to understand those symbols that we're using. 00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:35.360 So we use the symbols, but usually try and keep 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.099 it the same if we can for that specific child. 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:40.340 And if we're talking about the whole environment, 00:35:40.579 --> 00:35:44.360 try and keep all of those symbols the same for 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.039 the whole environment. If there's one child that 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.760 needs a different kind of visual, like an object 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.920 to support their understanding or expression 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.900 or a picture, then we can use it for that specific 00:35:55.900 --> 00:35:59.400 child and then keep the whole class. really consistent 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.440 for them. The baseline is consistent and then 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:06.440 it's individualised from there. Exactly and we 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.019 know that as long as we're using it consistently 00:36:09.019 --> 00:36:11.099 that the child will be able to pick it up usually. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.960 So usually you won't have to make any individual 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.400 adjustments it will just be the occasional child 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.099 that you might need to. As long as you're being 00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:22.820 really consistent then it should be okay. I suppose 00:36:22.820 --> 00:36:24.780 if teachers are listening to this and they're 00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:27.449 thinking I definitely need more visuals in my 00:36:27.449 --> 00:36:30.110 classroom, you know, but we don't want them to 00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:33.409 spend the whole weekend creating everything all 00:36:33.409 --> 00:36:36.289 at once. Where's a really good place to start 00:36:36.289 --> 00:36:38.869 for even an activity or in the classroom? Where 00:36:38.869 --> 00:36:44.210 is the first step as to introducing visuals into 00:36:44.210 --> 00:36:46.309 your classroom? Is it the timetable or is there 00:36:46.309 --> 00:36:48.909 something else? I would say a timetable is like 00:36:48.909 --> 00:36:50.449 the easiest one because everyone understands 00:36:50.449 --> 00:36:52.730 it. So if you can get a timetable up, definitely. 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:55.800 get it up and make sure you kind of got it all 00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.099 ready. Otherwise, I would say, see if you can 00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:02.780 use symbols or pictures that go with whatever 00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:05.599 activity you're doing to help the child kind 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.820 of match up what you're doing physically with 00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:12.159 the symbol and the writing. So it could be that 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:16.639 we're just using a visual, like a board. It could 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:20.139 be a board that's a core board of words that 00:37:20.139 --> 00:37:23.690 are... kind of the what we mean by core core 00:37:23.690 --> 00:37:26.829 words is those words that we use 80 percent of 00:37:26.829 --> 00:37:30.170 the time in our language so we use you know all 00:37:30.170 --> 00:37:34.989 these words like stop more go um you know, finished. 00:37:35.610 --> 00:37:38.769 Yeah, exactly. All these different words. It 00:37:38.769 --> 00:37:41.730 could be helpful to try and get a core board 00:37:41.730 --> 00:37:44.570 out and ready to go. If you do know that you 00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:46.789 have a gestalt language processor in the room, 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:50.110 then having a phrase board could be really helpful. 00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:53.429 Just a board of different phrases that the child 00:37:53.429 --> 00:37:56.219 could use to communicate. And the parents could 00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.440 help build that, right? Because the parents will 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.159 know all the phrases that they know. You don't 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.079 have to start from scratch with this. Get the 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:05.840 parents or carers involved in this because they'll 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.920 be able to write 20, 30, 40 phrases that they 00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:11.980 know that you can then create. If you're talking 00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:14.039 early years, you might not know them that deeply 00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.860 yet. Get the parents involved. Give them a copy 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:20.550 too. Get them to do it at home. Definitely. And 00:38:20.550 --> 00:38:23.010 it's also OK to use something a bit more generic 00:38:23.010 --> 00:38:26.110 if you're not sure, because a lot of our children 00:38:26.110 --> 00:38:28.170 in early years might not be speaking. They might 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:30.849 not be showing those obvious phrases that they 00:38:30.849 --> 00:38:34.250 can use. So it's OK to start with a very generic 00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:36.769 phrase board that has lots of different communication 00:38:36.769 --> 00:38:39.550 functions and like phrases that go with those 00:38:39.550 --> 00:38:41.929 different communication functions. Like, I like 00:38:41.929 --> 00:38:45.340 that. Look at that. Let's go. open it whatever 00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:47.820 it might be those just have a board of these 00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:51.139 phrases and see what happens and then at least 00:38:51.139 --> 00:38:52.719 you've got it for the whole class and you can 00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.199 use it for lots of different activities so essentially 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.179 we've got a core board of individual single words 00:38:59.179 --> 00:39:01.760 for those analytic language processes but we've 00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:04.039 also got a core phrase board that we're using 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:06.659 that we're using for those gestalt language processes 00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:10.519 and Yeah. And then if you can make an individualized 00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:12.880 one, get parents to help you. Don't do all the 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.420 work. Get them to have a go and give you some 00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:18.139 phrases because they will know. more often than 00:39:18.139 --> 00:39:19.960 not, they will know all the phrases that the 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.179 child uses. So I would say those are probably 00:39:22.179 --> 00:39:24.260 the best place to start so you're not overwhelming 00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:26.780 the classroom and not overwhelming yourself getting 00:39:26.780 --> 00:39:29.460 your classroom ready. Absolutely. And just to 00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:31.039 say, if you're listening to this and you want 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.099 to get started, I've got all of this on my website 00:39:33.099 --> 00:39:35.219 and it's already done for you, which is why I 00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:37.559 do that because whilst I'm setting up my classroom, 00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:39.260 I might as well be setting up yours as well. 00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:41.639 So on my storage drive, there are lots of core 00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:44.719 boards and phrase boards and symbols and visuals 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.119 for your classroom and timetables. there's a 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:48.900 core word program there's all sorts of stuff 00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:50.360 on there so if you're wanting to get started 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.360 but don't really know where to start head there 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.380 and at least it will get you give you an idea 00:39:54.380 --> 00:39:57.059 of how to get started and then you can individualize 00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:01.559 from there and you've got a great support system 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.239 as well especially for those parents do you want 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.199 to talk a little bit about that Yeah, so I offer 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.980 speech and language therapy sessions face to 00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:12.860 face, either at home or in schools or nurseries 00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:15.659 in southwest London. But I also have a parent 00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:18.639 advice hub, which is something that parents can 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:22.420 access wherever you are. And it's just an online 00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:25.360 30 minute session where you can chat to me about 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:28.019 any questions you might have about your child's 00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:30.960 speech and language development. And yeah, it's 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.679 just a space where you can ask. Any questions 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:36.199 without judgment. And I can give you some tips 00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.800 and strategies to support your child. Quite often 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.579 what we need when we're working with communication 00:40:41.579 --> 00:40:45.679 is we need individualized approach. So using 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:48.239 all this generic stuff that we see online is 00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:51.239 a great place to start. But we need to individualize 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.039 it for that child. We need to make it really 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:57.159 specific for them. If, yeah, accessing something 00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.599 like My Parent Advice Hub could be helpful because 00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:01.980 then you're getting a little bit of support without 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:05.239 having to sign up to therapy. And yeah, you can 00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:07.099 just ask those questions. I think it's such an 00:41:07.099 --> 00:41:09.420 incredible offer because so often speech and 00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:11.559 language therapists have a really long waiting 00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:13.099 list, especially if you're going through the 00:41:13.099 --> 00:41:15.960 NHS. And in schools as well, they're really hard 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:18.239 work. You know, we've got one speech language 00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:20.599 therapist in our whole school that tries to spread 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.219 herself so thinly across, you know, the entire 00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:26.599 need. able to just ask these questions for 30 00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:29.420 minutes might really set you up to succeed rather 00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:31.360 than having to wait and having nothing whilst 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:33.619 you're waiting so I think that is an incredible 00:41:33.619 --> 00:41:37.420 offer for parents to just be able to just start 00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:39.940 and start in the right way as well because there's 00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:42.820 lots of bad advice out there online too and lots 00:41:42.820 --> 00:41:45.800 of old -fashioned advice and we want to make 00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.500 sure that you're doing giving your learner and 00:41:48.500 --> 00:41:51.159 your child the the best start possible don't 00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:54.980 we exactly and the the advice hub can be helpful 00:41:54.980 --> 00:41:57.619 for getting those first steps i would say i've 00:41:57.619 --> 00:41:59.539 i've done it with some families where we do a 00:41:59.539 --> 00:42:02.699 few advice hub sessions every so often just to 00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:05.699 kind of catch up but i would say ideally if your 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:07.699 child needs therapy we'd give them some therapy 00:42:07.699 --> 00:42:10.099 but if you can't access that then at least this 00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.039 is something that you can access for the moment 00:42:12.949 --> 00:42:14.710 Absolutely. And you're talking to an expert, 00:42:14.789 --> 00:42:17.489 which is what we need. And you've got access 00:42:17.489 --> 00:42:19.769 to an expert, which is so often very difficult. 00:42:19.829 --> 00:42:22.429 Thank you so much for joining me today, Kate. 00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:24.929 I'm going to leave in the description below, 00:42:24.969 --> 00:42:27.409 I'll have the link to the Parent Advice Hub and 00:42:27.409 --> 00:42:29.269 I'll also have a link to your Instagram as well 00:42:29.269 --> 00:42:31.809 so that people can check her out. Amazing. Thank 00:42:31.809 --> 00:42:32.329 you so much.