WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education

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teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything

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communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson

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ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged

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4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in

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the field answering your questions and sharing

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our knowledge and experience working alongside

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our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's

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link in the description below to make the switch

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today. Now to the episode. Hello everybody and

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welcome to the Sensory Cartoon Podcast. My name

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is Jordan and today I'm joined by Dr. Morgan

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who has worked in education for 18 years in special

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education and also has a PhD in school and clinical

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psychology. Always has supported in schools but

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then in 2021 has began providing online support

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through Instagram and courses. Hello Dr. Morgan.

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You can just call me Morgan. It feels wrong to

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not call you Dr. Morgan because it's such a huge

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achievement honestly. When I was reading your

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bio, I just thought, oh my goodness, this woman

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is just such a powerhouse of knowledge. I have

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to get her on the podcast. So thank you so much

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for joining me today. Absolutely. And thank you.

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Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit

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on your journey from, you know, all those 18

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years and what that has, how that has led you

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to your business, what it looks like today? Sure.

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I'm like, do you want the short or the long version?

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Whatever you prefer. No, I don't. Sometimes people

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are like, you've done it all. How did you do

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all these things? And I don't feel like that.

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I feel like I'm learning something new every

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day, like multiple times a day. And when I look

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back, I think. is when the journey is more clear.

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I had had a job. My first career was in PR and

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marketing, which is so not relevant, but also

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oddly is. And I did that for a couple of years

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in New York, in the States, and then in Seattle,

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Washington. And I liked it, but it was not fulfilling

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this core need, desire, purpose that I thought

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that I... I just knew that I had a purpose that

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was different than what I was doing. And I started

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volunteering at this house in Seattle. It's actually

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right by the airport. And it was for kids who

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were in the foster care system but could not

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be placed in family settings for whatever reason.

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And I got there and literally it's like, you

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know, all of us working there under 25. Sometimes

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the kids that were supporting. are 18 and we're

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21. You know, we are slightly above their age

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and development and we're in many ways responsible

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for so much of their care the way that a parent,

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a true parent would be. And I somehow found myself

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in this educational liaison. I'm using air quotes

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here. Educational liaison role. I had no idea.

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I knew nothing about education at all. And I

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was going to. individualized education plan meetings

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for these kids because they all had disabilities.

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And I'm quickly figuring out what a disability

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is and what constitutes a disability. in different

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arenas, in the medical model versus the school

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model. And I loved it. And so I decided to become

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a teacher. And I did that job for about a year.

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I had a really great boss in the marketing world

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at the time. We used to have bagels and coffee

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once a week. And his work was clearly his passion

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in life. And he was really keen on mentoring

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people into their passions. And he And I was

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talking to him about this center and working

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with these kids and all this stuff. And finally,

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I said, I don't think I'm supposed to do this

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work anymore. And he said, I don't think you

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are either. I never tell this story. But he goes,

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you're fired. Do you want to be fired now or

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in six months? Wow. Amazing mental. Yeah. And

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I was like, what? I've never been fired. Oh,

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my goodness. And he's like, no, no, no. is like

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you're in a bridge, like you're bridging two

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worlds and I think you need help. And so I'm

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going to give you that push. And so I got my

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ducks in a row and I joined an organization to

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kind of expedite your license and get you into

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a master's program and teach full -time while

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doing that. And so I moved to Hawaii and I taught

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there and I ended up adopting two kids while

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I was there in what would be called a Hanai adoption.

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So it's not like I took them from their family.

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It was more like we integrated our lives. From

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there, it kind of snowballed, right? Like I was

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a classroom teacher and then I was also raising

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these two kids as a bonus mom. Then I got asked

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to start a school in Denver and I started one

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school and then I started another school. And

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then I felt like I had this weird set of knowledge.

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I had the special ed knowledge. This whole time

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I had been supporting these kids, I was recognizing

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that all these other things were happening in

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their lives that were really impacting them.

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And I felt like even there, yes, there was a

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disability, but. Like there was a lot that could

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be done to support that. But there was also this

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mental health component. It was partly by being

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neurodivergent and was partly by the way they're

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moving through the world and what they're experiencing.

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And that I wanted to know more about. And so

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that's where I went and I got my PhD. And I started

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in school psychology, but then expanded my training.

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And so that's where we are. And that's how I

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sit in the intersection of these kind of two

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spaces. Amazing. you seem way too young to have

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all that experience but I'm so pleased to like

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absorb some of your knowledge right now a past

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foster carer also been a foster carer for the

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last for three years in total like in spaces

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and yeah I have a huge heart for it too I feel

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like there's so much overlap because so often

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the children that need the most support and I

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have the most lacking support in the foster care

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system of the disabled and neurodivergent children

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they're harder to place honestly but also some

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of the trauma that children face it looks like

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neurodivergence they're highly anxious or yeah

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have all sorts of different trauma responses

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that mean that they need extra support also so

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there's kind of this weird overlap and I feel

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like lots of people that are passionate about

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one would naturally be passionate about the other

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if they got the opportunity to be because yeah

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there is so much. overlap if you have the heart

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for one you'll probably have the heart for the

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other so it's really lovely to have a kindred

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spirit across the pond that um I can align so

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much of my passions for both of those things

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who do you support now then because obviously

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that expands a huge range of children and need

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and experience what does your kind of day -to

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-day like people you work with look like yes

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great question it I think my business kind of

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reflects my own personality. And also, I think

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I know too much now to be able to have a proper

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diagnosis, but I am 99 .99999 % sure that I have

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ADHD. I can think all the way back to my childhood,

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definitely before the age markers that we would

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need for determination. And I think that's reflected

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in my business. So we have two sides, actually.

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We have Reach Learning Services and those. are

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for, that's an educational service for kids who

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have. primarily learning disabilities and level

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one autism. And they have trained educators that

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are then trained in like Orton -Gillingham, which

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is the gold standard really in terms of reading

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intervention for dyslexia. They're in like a

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bunch of these different programs essentially

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that can support dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia.

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So you're kind of like core three learning disabilities

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in terms of reading, writing, and math. And then

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they support kids with auditory processing disorders.

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and helping kids with strategies around that.

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And then they help kids with ADHD and kids with

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primarily level one autism. These are the kids

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that a lot of, they self -describe being more

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impacted than any of the... the descriptors would

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indicate you know a lot of times they're referred

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to as low support needs or um you know level

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one or high five years ago they would have been

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called aspergers which is right because exactly

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what you say like there is so much more they're

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high maskers they have just as prevalent sensory

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needs and i often feel Like I'm part of a special

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education classroom, but it's attached to a mainstream

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school. So lots of the level one autistics are

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actually just part of the mainstream setting.

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And I often think they struggle almost worse,

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like harder than the kids in my class, because

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the kids in my class, there's a innocence there.

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There's an unawareness there of where they should

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be or where they're at. They don't feel like

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they're missing out because they're just having

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the best time. And they're not, they are not

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aware enough of where they could be or where

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they should be. Whereas those with level one

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autism, there is an awareness there. There's

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awareness of there's loneliness there. It really

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does affect their mental health because they

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have a feeling of, well, I should have friends

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or I should have a relationships or I should

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have be able to do all these things and I can't.

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And then that's where that low self -esteem comes

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in. And I feel like they really struggle. There's

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an awareness there of what they should or could

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be. Mm -hmm. And yet they can't or find it more

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difficult. And that awareness, I think, makes

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it really, really difficult. And I almost hate

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that it's called level one to three because it

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makes it feel like the level one isn't so bad.

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And I think they have a really tough time. Yes.

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I mean, yes. We have so many kids that end up

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because they start in the reach learning services.

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And then a lot of our level one kiddos, they'll

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then also see me because I oversee that side

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because I was a special ed teacher. I was a special

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ed director. I did it. much that'll work. And

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I train them. I train all of the educators so

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that they have additional training in neurodivergent

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profiles and understanding and what could be

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going on for these kids from a social perspective,

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a sensory perspective. The idea almost that a

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lot of those disabilities have like dimmer switches

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and sometimes they look more present. They're

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more symptomatic if we're using like that terminology.

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But sometimes it just feels a lot, their day

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feels a lot heavier. Their needs feel a lot heavier.

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And then other days they're turned down really.

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And that can also mess with yourself, too. If

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you're like, I could do this yesterday. Why can't

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I do this today? That can be such a hard place

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to be. Them and their teachers and their parents,

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there must be such high expectations on them

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at all times because they sometimes can do these

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things. But it depends on the environment, how

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they're feeling in their body, what has happened

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yesterday, what kind of sleep they've had, you

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know, all of these things. But then to have the

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same high expectations on them all the time.

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Time must be so difficult. So difficult because

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by definition, their disabilities are dynamic.

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They don't show up the same way every day. And

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then when you're little, you don't have language

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for that. And in fact, I'm in my 40s and I didn't

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have language for that until like three years

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ago. And I would. I would argue that I have more

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knowledge, more, and I should have, you know,

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here I am shitting on myself, but like I should

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have, air quotes, should have known that. And

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I still didn't. So then we're expecting our kids

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to. I don't think that's a fair ask. But what

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is happening is that these kids are then wanting

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to perform in a neurotypical way most of the

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time. They're not understanding the ebb and flow

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of having. a dynamic disability that shifts from

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time to time based upon all these things that

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you just mentioned. So then what they hear is

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that they're not. that they were lazy that day,

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that they're not being motivated, that they're

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not trying hard enough, that they need to, I

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don't know if the language is the same, but we've

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got like locking in as like a major phrase here.

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Like they just need to lock in. They need to

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really focus. And they internalize that narrative

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as something that is wrong with them, not recognizing

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that it's literally part of a core component

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of that disability and that we really want to

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understand our own. profiles because mine's going

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to be different from somebody else's, right?

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And being able to figure out what you need in

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any given moment. A lot of our kids, they'll

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either engage with Reach Learning Services for

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academic support from somebody who deeply understands

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that. Right. And starts to talk about things

00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:43.460
like, hey, where's your energy level today? Hey,

00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.620
you know, where's your social battery today?

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.159
And and then talking about, well, what do you

00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.419
need? Do you need an accommodation here? Do we

00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:53.399
need to shift the way we work today? We need

00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:55.759
to do like a dance party here at the beginning.

00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:57.840
And the part of the reason that we're doing that

00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.460
is, yes, to teach them for sure. We want to be

00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:02.759
able to help teach them. But second, I would

00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.820
really like for that to be a narrative that they

00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:08.289
start to. to also say to themselves, what do

00:14:08.289 --> 00:14:11.269
I need today? Where am I at? Essentially, what

00:14:11.269 --> 00:14:13.690
accommodation would support me best right now

00:14:13.690 --> 00:14:17.289
to get whatever I really need to get done? I

00:14:17.289 --> 00:14:20.330
don't always have to walk in at 100%. That's

00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:22.809
unrealistic. None of us are walking in in every

00:14:22.809 --> 00:14:27.250
aspect of our day giving 100%. We don't have

00:14:27.250 --> 00:14:30.289
it to give. And so we want our kids to have that.

00:14:30.470 --> 00:14:32.570
It shouldn't be the expectation that they put

00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:33.850
on themselves. It shouldn't be the expectation

00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:38.259
that others put on them. But I think the dynamic

00:14:38.259 --> 00:14:41.259
nature of it is what makes it particularly hard.

00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:43.080
I don't think any parent or teacher is walking

00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.820
around wanting to instill this narrative that

00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:49.539
essentially can impact self -esteem and impact

00:14:49.539 --> 00:14:51.919
anxiety and depression. They don't want to be

00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:53.860
doing that, but it's that they don't know. They

00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:58.120
don't understand the variability. that can happen

00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.919
even within a day, let alone the course of a

00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.460
week, a month, a year. Yes, definitely. And if

00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:07.080
their children are able to vocalize that and

00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.080
explain that, then that will only help others

00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.080
to understand where they're at, won't it? Is

00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.500
there a mix of females and males and how that

00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:17.899
presents itself within REACH? Yes, absolutely.

00:15:18.259 --> 00:15:22.379
We have, gosh, we have a lot more executive functioning

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.940
that's happened post -pandemic. I have a whole

00:15:26.409 --> 00:15:29.110
wondering about that, much to our previous part

00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:31.669
of our conversation. We're just seeing tons and

00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:34.490
tons of kids diagnosed with ADHD. And I'm a little,

00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:38.129
I have some trepidation about that because the

00:15:38.129 --> 00:15:42.309
whole world experienced a trauma and every country

00:15:42.309 --> 00:15:46.769
responded in its own way. But it was also like

00:15:46.769 --> 00:15:49.090
no matter where you lived in the world, it was

00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:51.090
probably something you had never experienced

00:15:51.090 --> 00:15:56.240
before. And so that's. And nobody knew. There's

00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.200
a lot of pieces to that that are kind of like

00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:02.279
a global trauma. And I'm a little apprehensive

00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.399
on if all of these diagnoses are actually ADHD

00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:10.860
or if these are kids that were in a stage of

00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.580
development and it was shifted, it was arrested,

00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:17.039
it was paused and impacted pretty significantly

00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.559
for depending upon where you are, you know, six

00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:25.090
months, a year, two years. a nervous response,

00:16:25.389 --> 00:16:28.750
a trauma response that is making you more hypervigilant

00:16:28.750 --> 00:16:32.230
and looking like ADHD. I don't know, but I find

00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:35.029
it odd. And I think that it would be worth studying

00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:37.889
because I would hedge to bet that there's something

00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:40.590
else in the mix and that not all of these kids

00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:42.789
actually have ADHD. Yeah, that's so interesting.

00:16:43.049 --> 00:16:45.809
I also think that it's worth considering that

00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.379
If they are high maskers and they've been at

00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:51.220
school for that long and then COVID gave them

00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:55.720
the opportunity to unwind, unmask, to rethink

00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:57.799
their bodies, to eat when they want, go to the

00:16:57.799 --> 00:16:59.659
toilet when they want, to move when they want.

00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:01.799
And then they had to go back into the school

00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.659
system. They're going to really struggle with

00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:06.079
that too. So they were always ADHD. Maybe, you

00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:07.539
know, I'm just being devil's advocate, but maybe

00:17:07.539 --> 00:17:10.019
they were ADHD, but they were high maskers, faunas.

00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.759
They wanted to please, but they didn't. their

00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.640
interception was kind of off so they didn't listen

00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:17.380
to their bodies because they would get told off

00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:19.660
that would be seen as bad whereas at home i can

00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:21.579
move when i want i can go outside i can have

00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:22.900
a drink when i'm all of a sudden they started

00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:25.519
listening to their body which is awesome that's

00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.240
what we want that's what in special education

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.609
we celebrate right absolutely and having the

00:17:31.609 --> 00:17:33.369
same expectations that they did before COVID,

00:17:33.450 --> 00:17:35.490
but now they know their body so much better and

00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:37.650
they know they need to move and they know what

00:17:37.650 --> 00:17:39.450
their body needs and they're having to kind of

00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:41.730
unlearn that must be really difficult. And I

00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:44.250
can imagine that looks like an ADHD. Great point.

00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:46.690
It definitely goes both ways. There are also

00:17:46.690 --> 00:17:49.309
kids where I'm like, how on earth? Did we get

00:17:49.309 --> 00:17:53.430
this far? And it's often your high maskers and

00:17:53.430 --> 00:17:55.930
your kids that are your fauners, your high performers,

00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:58.869
your perfectionistic kids that are really seeking

00:17:58.869 --> 00:18:01.250
to please. Definitely, there is a lot of that.

00:18:01.349 --> 00:18:04.690
We've seen a massive increase in homeschooling

00:18:04.690 --> 00:18:07.970
since COVID. especially neurodivergent children

00:18:07.970 --> 00:18:10.089
at all ages actually and I think parents just

00:18:10.089 --> 00:18:12.970
realize like gosh you were so stressed you were

00:18:12.970 --> 00:18:15.470
an absolute shell of yourself when you were in

00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.410
the school system and I love this version of

00:18:18.410 --> 00:18:21.250
you I love that you're more confident exploring

00:18:21.250 --> 00:18:23.940
yourself you know exploring what you're interested

00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.160
in. You've got your spark back. And I think lots

00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.359
of parents saw that and don't want to send their

00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.220
kids back into school. And gosh, it's a luxury

00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:33.819
to homeschool that so many parents don't have.

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.200
But I can totally see why, if you can do that,

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.259
that you would make that choice, honestly. Absolutely.

00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:44.380
I also see pods, homeschool pods here. And sometimes

00:18:44.380 --> 00:18:46.980
they've hired a teacher and it's several families

00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:49.000
that have gotten together. Yeah, there's some

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.180
really interesting ways of supporting kids. that

00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:54.880
have come out of the pandemic. I'm like, man,

00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.980
whatever works, if it, you know, I say this all

00:18:57.980 --> 00:18:59.900
the time, if it works for your kid, it works,

00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.559
right? If it works for you, it works. I've also,

00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:05.400
interesting, I've done some support in schools

00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.279
because I do a lot on helping teachers integrate.

00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:10.680
This is funny. This is like none of the stuff

00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.500
that I sent you for us to talk about, but it's

00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:18.029
always fun. I love it. Me too. I'm like, I'm

00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:20.309
just nerding out on teaching. But I do a lot

00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:22.950
of support in schools where I go in and I do

00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:25.170
professional development in schools all over.

00:19:25.329 --> 00:19:27.750
But I also, because I was a teacher, right? So

00:19:27.750 --> 00:19:30.930
I'm not a psychologist coming in and asking you

00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:33.430
to do all of these things and not understanding

00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:35.890
the realities of the classroom, right? I've been

00:19:35.890 --> 00:19:39.200
in the classroom for a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:39.819 --> 00:19:43.039
And and so I talk a lot with teachers and help

00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.180
them integrate social and emotional work into

00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:49.039
the academics, because I really think that that

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.119
is where the work is. It's not about doing 20

00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.059
minutes and checking in on a mood meter and then

00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:57.599
put that away. And now we're on to math. You

00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.019
know, it's really about recognizing, like, where

00:20:00.019 --> 00:20:02.279
am I at today? Do I need something right now

00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.740
to be able to persevere through this? And man,

00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:06.819
am I going to need a break? Do I need a drink

00:20:06.819 --> 00:20:09.180
of water? There might be some. tough things in

00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:11.940
here. Like I hate having to erase when I didn't

00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.339
do the addition right. And that makes me so angry.

00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:17.240
If that happens, that anticipatory thinking,

00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:19.619
if that happens, like how am I going to manage

00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.779
that frustration? That's what we really want

00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.380
our kids doing. It needs to be embedded in everything.

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:28.140
It's music to my ears. You've reminded me of

00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:31.359
an argument I once had with an old deputy head.

00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:36.160
that I worked with for 10 years and she wanted

00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.680
me to replace one of my, we call them PSED lessons,

00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.319
it's like personal, social, emotional development

00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.299
lessons with an English or a maths. And I was

00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.099
like, no, I'm not doing that. We've already got

00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:49.039
so much English and maths and this is the most

00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.380
important lesson they learn. There is no point

00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:53.920
them learning how to say I want a bus ticket

00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:55.900
or be able to work out the change for their bus

00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:57.720
ticket if they can't even get on the bus in the

00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:59.819
first place. They need to have the confidence.

00:21:00.410 --> 00:21:02.789
And the knowledge of like the world to be able

00:21:02.789 --> 00:21:05.430
to access and wait for the bus and get on the

00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:07.730
bus and feel confident enough to be able to communicate

00:21:07.730 --> 00:21:09.750
what they want and know what they want and all

00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:12.230
of those things and social and everything. Like

00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:14.420
they can't. What's the point in the English and

00:21:14.420 --> 00:21:16.839
maths if they can't do that? Be regulated enough

00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:18.819
to leave the house, all of those things. So yeah,

00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.500
music to my ears that I've been fighting this

00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:24.099
for a very long time. But yeah, I totally agree

00:21:24.099 --> 00:21:26.839
that those kind of social skills, that regulation

00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.880
skills, knowing your own body and being grounded

00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.480
in yourself is the fundamentals of everything.

00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:36.539
It has to come first. Yes, yes, it really, really

00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:40.880
does. And it's interesting because I have I've

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.619
been doing that work since 2016, 2017. And the

00:21:45.619 --> 00:21:50.039
stress levels of teachers in the years again,

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:54.240
2022 forward, I think has just been really, really

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.799
high. And I think that. I don't know. Again,

00:21:56.980 --> 00:21:59.180
this is an assumption on my part or a wondering

00:21:59.180 --> 00:22:01.740
actually, even more than an assumption. I wonder

00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:05.039
if so many of our teachers and people in other

00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.579
professions as well, but I feel like teachers

00:22:07.579 --> 00:22:10.140
just get a heavy load in a lot of ways. They

00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:12.420
didn't have time to process everything. And then

00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:14.960
they came back into the classrooms and felt a

00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.119
sense of urgency. They felt like kids were behind.

00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:19.599
They felt like they owed it to try and like catch

00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:21.960
them up. I've heard that from a lot of teachers.

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.609
And in that, they... Sometimes, not all the time

00:22:26.609 --> 00:22:29.930
by any means, I think that they have been so

00:22:29.930 --> 00:22:33.230
worried about the academic performance for kids

00:22:33.230 --> 00:22:36.150
and getting them back up to grade level or closer

00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:39.849
to grade level that they have forgot about some

00:22:39.849 --> 00:22:42.769
of like typical development factors. Like second

00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:46.049
graders should be yapping all the time and you

00:22:46.049 --> 00:22:48.369
should be like. will they just be quiet for a

00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:50.829
minute? Like, you know, that's what we would

00:22:50.829 --> 00:22:54.430
expect from that age group. And so, you know,

00:22:54.430 --> 00:22:55.890
but I'll be in a classroom and they're like,

00:22:55.990 --> 00:22:58.509
they just talk so much. I'm like, actually, we

00:22:58.509 --> 00:23:02.490
want them to talk. How we want them to talk,

00:23:02.490 --> 00:23:05.470
you know, and give them the space to talk. And

00:23:05.470 --> 00:23:08.109
can you shift your classroom expectations so

00:23:08.109 --> 00:23:10.750
that they have more voice and agency? And, you

00:23:10.750 --> 00:23:14.710
know, but I think what. In some cases, what I

00:23:14.710 --> 00:23:16.750
have seen happen is that there's a lot of anxiety,

00:23:17.069 --> 00:23:19.650
tension, stress for those teachers. And so a

00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:21.710
natural response for a lot of people in that

00:23:21.710 --> 00:23:24.410
situation is to try and retake back control,

00:23:24.670 --> 00:23:27.289
which means that they take agency from kids,

00:23:27.509 --> 00:23:30.269
again, unintentionally. They're not trying to

00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:34.470
do that. Their nervous systems are just vibrating.

00:23:35.109 --> 00:23:37.829
Yeah, and then also finances. I don't know if

00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:40.309
America's had the same problem, but since COVID,

00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:43.299
school budgets have... absolutely been thrashed

00:23:43.299 --> 00:23:45.940
so all the support aides I know you call them

00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:47.440
paraprofessionals we call them teaching assistants

00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.940
has been slashed like the budget for that so

00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:52.059
there's way less adults to support you so the

00:23:52.059 --> 00:23:54.460
teachers are more on their own than ever with

00:23:54.460 --> 00:23:57.720
needs in their class more diverse and more complex

00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.900
than ever it's kind of a recipe that for no wonder

00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:04.299
yeah you know this is happening right yeah yep

00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:07.660
absolutely so then what is the answer you know

00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:11.319
I suppose a good question to ask you is What

00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.539
are some things that if you walk into a class

00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:18.740
you would want to see that are accessible, easily

00:24:18.740 --> 00:24:23.099
attainable, that are just good practice for all

00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:28.980
children, I suppose? I would want to see real

00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:33.059
regulation options for kids that are varied.

00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.519
And I say real meaning that it's not just something

00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.880
on a wall to refer to. You know, that could be

00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.859
different seating options. It could be, you know,

00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:47.640
having a space for standing or walking in the

00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.519
back if you wanted to do that. It could be if

00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:54.190
you needed, you know. depending upon age ranges

00:24:54.190 --> 00:24:55.950
and things like that, different things to wait

00:24:55.950 --> 00:25:00.009
on you. If you're in secondary school, like high

00:25:00.009 --> 00:25:03.849
school, you know, being able to wear an AirPod,

00:25:03.849 --> 00:25:06.289
but not, you know, not both. You need to be able

00:25:06.289 --> 00:25:08.710
to listen. But if you, like, I have kids that

00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:11.809
I work with that they're like, I put my hood

00:25:11.809 --> 00:25:14.390
up because I just need to drown out the world

00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:17.049
a little bit. And it actually helps them to focus

00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:19.890
in on the teacher or the work that they're doing.

00:25:20.009 --> 00:25:22.160
Maybe they'll... They'll listen and then when

00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.180
it's time to do the actual schoolwork, they put

00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.220
their hood up and they go. Teachers and spaces

00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:29.839
have an understanding for those different kinds

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.460
of needs. And then the other one that I would

00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:35.980
say are thinking frames. So ways for kids to

00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:39.279
think through what their needs may be. Because

00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.599
a lot of times we have things that say like identify

00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:44.480
your feeling or this or that. Here's the deal.

00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.119
If you are in any type of dysregulated state

00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.420
or you are dysregulating, the prefrontal cortex

00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:53.339
is the first part of your brain that goes offline.

00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.619
Well, that's your decision making. That's your

00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:58.640
good decision making, right? So if you don't

00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.839
have something external that you can look at

00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:05.779
that says, do this, think about this, like you

00:26:05.779 --> 00:26:08.420
are, you are decreasing the likelihood of being

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:11.259
able to access those skills because the actual

00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:14.200
mechanism that would do that is. is offline.

00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:18.000
So making sure that kids have a way to process

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.440
that in real time is really helpful. And choices

00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.220
in that process are helpful too, because when

00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:27.960
a kid is making even just small choices, am I

00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.640
going to sit or am I going to stand? Am I going

00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.240
to, you know, am I going to grab this or am I

00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.759
going to grab that? It's a little bit of a, you

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.119
know. an art form here you don't want too many

00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.480
choices but you do want some because when they

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.299
do make those choices it kind of just crawls

00:26:42.299 --> 00:26:45.880
their prefrontal cortex back online by just making

00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.079
even small decisions could it be like this like

00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.299
a way of making that easier would be with visuals

00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:54.039
rather than spoken choices so you could be showing

00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.019
the photos of the things or you could be showing

00:26:56.019 --> 00:26:59.720
the actual objects so that they don't have to

00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:01.500
process what you're asking them but they can

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.200
just see the two and make the choice that's really

00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.000
interesting I haven't heard of that before that

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.180
you're kind of wanting to creep in that yeah

00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:10.059
that those choices it makes so much sense I also

00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:13.359
hear so much that oh they can they can they know

00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.339
all the emotions they can say happy and sad and

00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:17.160
angry and they can move all the things but they

00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.799
just don't do it when they're feeling it and

00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.380
you've explained beautifully why that would be

00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:23.900
because they just don't have access to that part

00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:26.519
of their brain when they're dysregulated So I

00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.099
suppose, would you have stuff ready to go and

00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:31.500
then to offer them when they're feeling that?

00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:34.980
Or, you know, how would you make, support the

00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.740
child to make those kind of helpful things accessible

00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:40.039
to them in that moment when they're feeling it

00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.339
or when they're bubbling up? Yes. So I would

00:27:42.339 --> 00:27:45.839
actually back up and I would teach it when everybody

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.220
is regulated, right? Or the vast majority of

00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:52.839
kids are regulated. And go through and have them.

00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:55.569
If you have sensory materials that, you know,

00:27:55.569 --> 00:27:57.950
or different things that they can use, let the

00:27:57.950 --> 00:28:00.809
kids try them. You know, if you are doing a 20

00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:03.210
minute lesson or something, this to me would

00:28:03.210 --> 00:28:06.829
be a gold, golden opportunity. And that is, you

00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:08.890
know, go through the, go through that framework,

00:28:09.049 --> 00:28:12.069
practice it together, take out some of the tools,

00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:15.250
use them, rate them. I would want a kid to be

00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:17.309
like this, like one of the first questions I

00:28:17.309 --> 00:28:18.829
would ask, especially if they're third graders

00:28:18.829 --> 00:28:21.869
or older, I would say there's eight or older.

00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:24.589
I would say, Which ones you absolutely not like?

00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:26.890
Because nobody asked them that. Right. And so

00:28:26.890 --> 00:28:28.529
starting with that one, like, yeah, this is not

00:28:28.529 --> 00:28:31.470
for me. Great. Well, we're not going to use that

00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:33.690
one. Right. That's probably not going to be some

00:28:33.690 --> 00:28:36.089
of your go to's. Which ones feel really good?

00:28:36.190 --> 00:28:38.750
Which one do you maybe you might not know the

00:28:38.750 --> 00:28:41.089
feeling yet in your body, but you might go. And

00:28:41.089 --> 00:28:44.410
then we can talk about how that means that there's

00:28:44.410 --> 00:28:46.170
something that's soothing to your brain, your

00:28:46.170 --> 00:28:49.670
body about that tool. So a lot of times I use

00:28:49.670 --> 00:28:52.829
gestures at first with kids and actually even

00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:56.750
young adults, too, because we we sometimes we

00:28:56.750 --> 00:28:59.609
know intellectually words, but we don't know

00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:03.089
how they feel. And so sometimes using a gesture.

00:29:04.029 --> 00:29:07.670
that mimics how people respond when they're feeling

00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:10.430
a certain emotion can actually help them tap

00:29:10.430 --> 00:29:15.380
into that a little bit better. So I would do

00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:17.339
that. I would teach it to all kids. And then

00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:20.640
I would have them have their own plan where they're

00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.960
like, these are my top tools, where they just

00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.519
have that available to them. Obviously, I'm talking

00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.160
more probably elementary primarily, just in terms

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.799
of... It makes sense though. I feel like my learners

00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.740
are kind of cognitively age four and below, like

00:29:36.740 --> 00:29:41.220
zero to four. But I feel like by having... the

00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.519
stuff out and seeing what they gravitate towards,

00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:47.900
adults could still build an idea of what they

00:29:47.900 --> 00:29:50.500
like, what helps them, what they avoid, you know,

00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:52.920
might take a little bit longer, but through observation,

00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.559
you could kind of still build that kind of repertoire,

00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.619
that kind of profile of what supports the child

00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:00.599
and to have it written down, to have it available

00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.240
to people that come into the room would be so

00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.119
helpful. Yes, yes. The other thing that I would

00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:12.670
say is we And I do this too. When I am not at

00:30:12.670 --> 00:30:16.589
my best, I revert back to previous learnings,

00:30:16.589 --> 00:30:18.390
right, and previous behaviors. And everybody

00:30:18.390 --> 00:30:21.710
does. And I definitely did this in my classroom

00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:24.150
for a long time until I learned a different way

00:30:24.150 --> 00:30:28.210
where I would, when I would see the first sign

00:30:28.210 --> 00:30:30.490
of dysregulation, which I don't think I even

00:30:30.490 --> 00:30:32.650
knew that word at the time, to be really honest.

00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:38.200
I would, you know, I would often say I would

00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:39.920
see that something was happening and I would

00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:43.279
wait and I would see if the kid handled it on

00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:45.740
their own. And I was viewing it as a behavior.

00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.720
And I was kind of like watching where this behavior

00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.920
is going to go. Were they going to get it under

00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.099
control was essentially what I was thinking.

00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:55.640
Or are they going to lose it? Like, where is

00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:00.019
this going to go? Yeah. Okay. And I know a lot

00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:03.019
of teachers now that do the exact same thing

00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:06.480
that I did. And so they wait and I would actually

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.539
suggest the opposite. So you don't even have

00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:11.740
to know what happened if somebody gets louder

00:31:11.740 --> 00:31:15.319
and bigger, right? Or smaller and quieter than

00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.039
their typical baseline. I'm going to just go

00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.519
check in with that kid or that young adult then,

00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.740
right? And if they don't want to talk to me,

00:31:22.779 --> 00:31:25.690
that's fine. That's totally fine. When we talk

00:31:25.690 --> 00:31:28.230
about helping people build new habits and new

00:31:28.230 --> 00:31:31.150
behaviors, the earlier we intervene, the earlier

00:31:31.150 --> 00:31:33.529
we check in with them, the earlier we remind

00:31:33.529 --> 00:31:36.190
them of this flowchart and this pathway through

00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:39.269
and forward, the more likely they are to be able

00:31:39.269 --> 00:31:42.650
to access it. Because the further dysregulated

00:31:42.650 --> 00:31:45.150
they get, they have less language accessible.

00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:48.450
So if you start talking to them, you can actually

00:31:48.450 --> 00:31:51.450
make it worse, right? Because that language centers

00:31:51.450 --> 00:31:54.680
are also going offline or they're shifting. If

00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:57.599
they are older and they have language, they can

00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:00.339
get accusatory. This is where you hear kids say,

00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.480
like, I'm going to get you fired. Right. And

00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.200
they get real threatening in their language.

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:07.200
And that's a defense mechanism that comes as

00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.420
their language essentially lessens. And it's

00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:12.720
it's part of that fight or flight response. So

00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.640
being able to intervene earlier is usually helpful.

00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.039
And I will when I've gone in and co -taught with

00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.539
teachers, modeled lessons because I've gone in

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:23.809
and. co -taught several lessons with them. Whatever

00:32:23.809 --> 00:32:26.150
they're teaching, I just go in and I kind of

00:32:26.150 --> 00:32:29.349
model alongside them. And I will tell the kids

00:32:29.349 --> 00:32:32.210
right away, hey, did you know that when people

00:32:32.210 --> 00:32:34.730
are... kind of starting to get dysregulated.

00:32:35.029 --> 00:32:37.990
And I have explained what that is, that all humans,

00:32:38.089 --> 00:32:40.490
we have the same tendency as almost every other

00:32:40.490 --> 00:32:43.410
animal, which is that we get bigger and louder

00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:45.869
and I'll have everybody go, right? And then I'll

00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:47.990
be like, no, they get smaller and quieter. And

00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:50.690
then we have them kind of like tuck. And then

00:32:50.690 --> 00:32:53.849
I give them, I ask them to give examples of.

00:32:54.089 --> 00:32:56.529
how that usually sounds for them if they can

00:32:56.529 --> 00:32:58.329
think of one when they get bigger and louder.

00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:00.910
And so then I always give an example of me being

00:33:00.910 --> 00:33:05.089
like, mom, you know, you packed what for lunch,

00:33:05.190 --> 00:33:08.250
you know, or whatever it is, or dad, he's lonely

00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:14.289
again. No, it's not bad to be angry. And I think

00:33:14.289 --> 00:33:16.970
that's what this is undoing, right? It's making

00:33:16.970 --> 00:33:22.009
it so. okay it is okay you just have to do this

00:33:22.009 --> 00:33:24.109
and this to stay safe or keep your body safe

00:33:24.109 --> 00:33:26.430
or to stop like so that you don't get hurt or

00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:28.829
so others don't get hurt right it's it's not

00:33:28.829 --> 00:33:31.109
the feeling that's the bad thing you know it's

00:33:31.109 --> 00:33:34.349
at all it it's how we manage that and and we

00:33:34.349 --> 00:33:36.210
can support you to do that when you said you

00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:40.410
intervene early I love that what does that look

00:33:40.410 --> 00:33:44.559
like sound like You know, what does that mean

00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.319
when you're saying you're seeing a child that's

00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.440
getting a little bit louder, a little bit bigger,

00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:51.619
or maybe a bit quieter than their baseline and

00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:55.579
you intervene? Yeah, what is that? Yes, usually

00:33:55.579 --> 00:33:58.519
it's really, really simple, but I make sure to

00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:05.759
shift my register into a casual register. I think

00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:09.639
most teach myself as a teacher and as a psychologist,

00:34:09.699 --> 00:34:12.119
I have a tendency to shift into the register

00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.679
that I'm in now. And so if I am, if I have a

00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.039
kid who is dysregulated, I have a certain register

00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:21.159
that I tend to operate in. And I think most of

00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:23.960
us do, especially when we're on for work or,

00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:28.190
you know, or whatever it is. And so. And it tends

00:34:28.190 --> 00:34:31.630
to be a little bit higher. And for me, it tends

00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:33.250
to be a little bit higher, a little bit clipped.

00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:36.969
And so when I have a kid who is dysregulating,

00:34:37.130 --> 00:34:39.750
I will really purposely switch into a casual

00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:42.289
register. And so I'll go over and I'll say, hey,

00:34:42.369 --> 00:34:45.530
is something going on? And I really tried that.

00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:47.869
And I tried to make it, I don't want to assume

00:34:47.869 --> 00:34:50.630
what's going on. Or, you know, or I'll say like,

00:34:50.750 --> 00:34:53.079
hey, it seems like something's up. Yeah. So it's

00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:56.099
not accusatory. It's not a demand. It's not pressure,

00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.159
but it's kind of like nuance, like something

00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.219
good. Like it's like you're not giving them the

00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:04.659
answer. You're not like saying something's wrong.

00:35:04.780 --> 00:35:09.059
You're just giving them the opportunity to say

00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:11.219
and to maybe just to recognize that in themselves.

00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.739
Yeah. And sometimes kids are like, they'll recognize

00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:18.900
it right away. And sometimes they'll say something

00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:20.900
along the lines of like, no, everything's fine.

00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.559
And I'm like, okay. I'm just checking in because

00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:26.840
I noticed that it seemed like something changed.

00:35:27.219 --> 00:35:29.579
And if you want to talk about it, you can. And

00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:32.380
then if they don't, then I'll say, you can also

00:35:32.380 --> 00:35:34.840
check out one of your tools. Which one do you

00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.880
really like again? And immediately what I'm doing

00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.199
is I'm... giving them choice. I'm asking them

00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.099
a question. I'm seeing if they can answer me

00:35:42.099 --> 00:35:44.719
because if they can answer me, there's a really

00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:47.139
good chance that they'll probably opt into that

00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:49.760
tool. If they can't and they say something like,

00:35:49.820 --> 00:35:53.159
leave me alone, or if they are really agitated

00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.119
and they curse, you know, or something like that,

00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.699
then I know that that kid is more dysregulated

00:35:58.699 --> 00:36:02.519
and I might. like then make a different decision.

00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.059
If I know this kid and I might say like, and

00:36:05.059 --> 00:36:06.719
I worked in behavioral classrooms for a long

00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:09.239
time. So I might like, my first thought is like,

00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.219
do I need to clear space for this kid to make

00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:14.019
sure that this kid is safe and everyone else

00:36:14.019 --> 00:36:16.500
is safe around them? That's usually my first

00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:18.579
thought. And that's what I'm assessing for. And

00:36:18.579 --> 00:36:21.440
how do I do that in a way that means that this

00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:25.079
kid is also protected, that whatever they're

00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.840
experiencing is not like on display for everybody

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.440
else. Yeah. And they're not like the bad kid

00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:36.659
too, right? We have to leave our classroom because

00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.099
he or she did this. It's like none that we'd

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:41.840
also don't want to build bad narrative either.

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.739
Do we? We want to like give them privacy to be

00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.139
able to like co -regulate, ground themselves,

00:36:49.219 --> 00:36:53.000
but also manage that kind of. peer -to -peer

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:56.159
judgment too because you can train the staff

00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.280
team as much as you like but there's also that

00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.340
peer -to -peer training that is needed right

00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:03.119
yeah obviously starts with the adults too but

00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:05.940
it's just there's so much to manage within this

00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:09.260
situation right to try and combat all possible

00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:12.800
means of like low self -esteem shame and all

00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.780
of those other things that you're kind of trying

00:37:14.780 --> 00:37:18.900
to battle yes yeah Yeah, absolutely. And, you

00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:20.880
know, and then you're going into that situation.

00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:23.360
And as you know, that kid, then you're kind of

00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:25.059
running through your kind of mental protocols.

00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:29.039
Right. When I was a teacher in those positions,

00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:31.719
you know, we often would meet and we would talk

00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:33.380
through, you know, how are we going to support

00:37:33.380 --> 00:37:35.599
this kid? Often, if we could, we would bring

00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:39.000
the kid into the conversation because I don't

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.599
want to talk about a kid without their knowledge

00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:46.400
and without them having. the right to the information

00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.360
if we're talking about you you have the right

00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.800
to the information that's very respectful and

00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:54.199
it gives them an opportunity also to feel seen

00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:58.820
and heard I was certainly a child that was like

00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:01.320
would have been troubled I suppose when I was

00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.739
in when I was like that kind of age like primary

00:38:03.739 --> 00:38:07.239
and I think ultimately for me just being heard

00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:11.969
and seen and giving opportunities to regulate

00:38:11.969 --> 00:38:15.250
or you know in the way that I wanted to would

00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:18.409
have helped me feel so seen and validated that

00:38:18.409 --> 00:38:20.389
actually I think it would have eased anything

00:38:20.389 --> 00:38:22.869
that I was you know anything big that would have

00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:25.329
ever happened because all I really wanted was

00:38:25.329 --> 00:38:28.489
to feel seen and heard and understood that really

00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:30.409
ultimately like when it comes down to everything

00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:34.670
that I was feeling just you doing that it doesn't

00:38:34.670 --> 00:38:38.130
take away the big things but just you fit just

00:38:38.130 --> 00:38:40.329
you say like including them in the conversation

00:38:40.329 --> 00:38:43.469
giving them autonomy helping them to feel seen

00:38:43.469 --> 00:38:46.250
and heard nipping the little thing you know when

00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:48.730
it's still small and making sure that you tap

00:38:48.730 --> 00:38:51.829
in as soon as there you notice it All of those

00:38:51.829 --> 00:38:55.170
things are so accessible to everybody. It doesn't

00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:57.429
cost anything. All children will benefit from

00:38:57.429 --> 00:38:59.329
it, whether they've got a diagnosis, neurodivergent

00:38:59.329 --> 00:39:02.030
or not. Every child can go through something

00:39:02.030 --> 00:39:03.849
in the morning and they need to feel seen or

00:39:03.849 --> 00:39:08.099
heard or need some extra support. I love all

00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:10.019
of these things and I love how accessible they

00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:12.159
are. The fact that they don't cost anything,

00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:14.280
that they are accessible for one teacher in the

00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:17.019
room when you've got 30 plus children, you know,

00:39:17.059 --> 00:39:19.679
you can do that. If you know your children, if

00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.019
you have had those conversations before, if you've

00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:24.880
taken the time to learn their profile and what

00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:26.780
works for them. And I guess that's the point,

00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:29.599
right? It comes in that foundation right at the

00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:34.050
start of the year. Yes. And it can also be repaired.

00:39:34.449 --> 00:39:38.010
You know, I really like a process that we call

00:39:38.010 --> 00:39:40.550
five before feedback. And I use it in my clinical

00:39:40.550 --> 00:39:44.590
practice and I use it with my educators in, you

00:39:44.590 --> 00:39:46.329
know, reach learning services because I have

00:39:46.329 --> 00:39:48.349
Dr. Morgan Bidelman. That's my private mental

00:39:48.349 --> 00:39:50.110
health practice. And then I have reach learning

00:39:50.110 --> 00:39:52.530
services. And we use this strategy in both places,

00:39:52.610 --> 00:39:54.630
which is five before feedback, which means I

00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:57.789
know five relevant, recent and important to the

00:39:57.789 --> 00:40:00.329
kid. pieces of information. It doesn't mean that

00:40:00.329 --> 00:40:02.250
I know their grades. It doesn't mean that I know

00:40:02.250 --> 00:40:04.469
how many people they live with in their home.

00:40:04.630 --> 00:40:08.030
You know, it means that I know that they, you

00:40:08.030 --> 00:40:09.949
know, love, they have two meals that they like

00:40:09.949 --> 00:40:12.030
and it's mac and cheese or spaghetti with meatballs,

00:40:12.289 --> 00:40:15.090
not ground beef meatballs. You know, like it's

00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:19.590
knowing those things about a kid that are really

00:40:19.590 --> 00:40:22.639
important. We think that they have to be these

00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.360
long conversations. But really, if we think about

00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:28.039
how rapport is built with anybody, aside from

00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:29.579
maybe a podcast when you're sitting down and

00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:32.429
you're like, here we go. Like in most normal

00:40:32.429 --> 00:40:36.210
settings, you know, you don't sit down with a

00:40:36.210 --> 00:40:38.690
coworker and have these really long conversations

00:40:38.690 --> 00:40:43.030
and build rapport and intimacy in that way, right?

00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:46.429
It's in all of these little moments over time,

00:40:46.710 --> 00:40:49.590
right? And so the real way that you get to know

00:40:49.590 --> 00:40:52.449
somebody is by talking to them in the hallway,

00:40:52.570 --> 00:40:55.590
by recognizing what, you know, that they... hey

00:40:55.590 --> 00:40:58.190
did you get new shoes right it's about listening

00:40:58.190 --> 00:41:01.530
to something that they say and you're just waiting

00:41:01.530 --> 00:41:03.949
kind of like gathering information about them

00:41:03.949 --> 00:41:06.510
and also you can tell things about you too as

00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:09.610
long as it's appropriate right but like we don't

00:41:09.610 --> 00:41:12.409
have to be these just kind of like sidewalks

00:41:13.050 --> 00:41:15.730
Yeah, like and our kids, they can smell that.

00:41:15.849 --> 00:41:18.409
They don't want that. They want a real person.

00:41:18.449 --> 00:41:22.030
And so if you know five relevant, recent and

00:41:22.030 --> 00:41:24.469
important pieces of information about somebody,

00:41:24.730 --> 00:41:27.849
then you're in a pretty good place to be able

00:41:27.849 --> 00:41:30.530
to build from there. And there's lots of ways

00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:32.750
to assess that. You know, if you have a small

00:41:32.750 --> 00:41:34.650
group of kids that you're working with, see if

00:41:34.650 --> 00:41:37.289
you can jot down five things. If you have a classroom

00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:40.429
of kids, think about. When you write the list,

00:41:40.530 --> 00:41:42.429
think about the person at the beginning or the

00:41:42.429 --> 00:41:45.449
person at the end, because they might be the

00:41:45.449 --> 00:41:48.869
person who's most triggering to you and you don't

00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:51.449
have that strong of a relationship with. Or maybe

00:41:51.449 --> 00:41:53.969
they're at the end and then try and go build

00:41:53.969 --> 00:41:56.230
it with them. You know, I also do it in my clinical

00:41:56.230 --> 00:41:58.909
practice, too. Sometimes I'll be like. okay,

00:41:58.989 --> 00:42:01.969
I know the trauma, right? I know the trauma history,

00:42:02.130 --> 00:42:04.969
but do I know what they did last weekend? That's

00:42:04.969 --> 00:42:07.789
important too. Yeah. Yeah, because otherwise

00:42:07.789 --> 00:42:09.829
they're not going to trust you or have that relationship

00:42:09.829 --> 00:42:12.250
with you to trust you with their big feelings

00:42:12.250 --> 00:42:14.849
or trust you with their all sorts of things.

00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:18.980
I think any adult in a... position of authority

00:42:18.980 --> 00:42:21.739
you know whether you're a teacher or senior leadership

00:42:21.739 --> 00:42:24.679
team or run a sports team or anything I think

00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.679
that's such great advice and gosh if any adult

00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.940
that worked with children did work like that

00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:35.199
god what a difference that would be like that's

00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.099
the kind of education system that I want to see

00:42:37.099 --> 00:42:40.539
and I want to work in I've always pride myself

00:42:40.539 --> 00:42:43.000
that I have no idea what the children's levels

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.780
are and sometimes not even their diagnosis I'd

00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:48.159
have to look it up but I do know like what team

00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.860
their dad supports of football or what their

00:42:50.860 --> 00:42:53.940
pet's name is or yeah their favorite texture

00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.539
or their favorite food or whatever I know what

00:42:56.539 --> 00:42:59.280
their random eclectic phrases mean and I've always

00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.500
prided myself on that but that's that isn't it

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:05.619
in like a little way it's knowing them and their

00:43:05.619 --> 00:43:08.900
soul rather than what's on paper and it takes

00:43:08.900 --> 00:43:12.099
commitment to the person and there's certainly

00:43:12.099 --> 00:43:14.400
children that I can do that easier with than

00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.739
others and I think they're exactly the people

00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:19.420
that you need to be just spending more time with

00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:21.840
and maybe talking to your team you know let's

00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.550
all write down the children that we always like

00:43:24.550 --> 00:43:26.550
don't know as well. And let's just work with

00:43:26.550 --> 00:43:28.650
those this week. Let's just like, and this week

00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:30.730
is all about just building that relationship

00:43:30.730 --> 00:43:33.230
with them. And I wonder if it's the same kids.

00:43:33.369 --> 00:43:35.750
I wonder if all of us would say, actually, you

00:43:35.750 --> 00:43:37.469
know what? We're really struggling with the relationship

00:43:37.469 --> 00:43:40.489
with this child. And imagine how that feels for

00:43:40.489 --> 00:43:43.030
that child. Right, to come into this building.

00:43:43.269 --> 00:43:46.469
Right. Come into this building and no adult can

00:43:46.469 --> 00:43:48.829
do a five for four feedback for me. I bet that

00:43:48.829 --> 00:43:51.269
happens. yeah and I bet they feel it without

00:43:51.269 --> 00:43:52.989
even realizing I bet they feel it and they might

00:43:52.989 --> 00:43:55.010
even feel it at home too you know maybe because

00:43:55.010 --> 00:43:57.050
it's maybe because it's of their diagnosis or

00:43:57.050 --> 00:43:59.409
whatever that it may be harder to get that information

00:43:59.409 --> 00:44:01.329
from or harder to build a relationship with you

00:44:01.329 --> 00:44:03.309
know they've got these barriers up that doesn't

00:44:03.309 --> 00:44:05.440
mean we don't do it And I think that's just a

00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:07.940
really beautiful reminder and kind of homework,

00:44:08.059 --> 00:44:10.079
I suppose, for me for this week of really thinking

00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:11.559
about, you know, yeah, I have this great relationship

00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:14.019
with, you know, 80 % of my class, but what about

00:44:14.019 --> 00:44:16.780
that 20 %? You know, they're worthy too. And

00:44:16.780 --> 00:44:18.880
I guess I don't know if parents would listen

00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.519
to this podcast and think the same, you know,

00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.480
that they know some of their children better

00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:25.019
than others and maybe have a more open relationship

00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:27.059
with some of their children than others and maybe

00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:30.059
really listen to that and think about ways of

00:44:30.059 --> 00:44:32.639
that they could utilize now they're thinking

00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:35.210
about it. I'm like, hey, well, help me do about

00:44:35.210 --> 00:44:37.489
it then. Yes. I mean, I'll speak for myself as

00:44:37.489 --> 00:44:40.090
a parent. I feel like in those like middle high

00:44:40.090 --> 00:44:44.929
school years, because my kids are now 27 and

00:44:44.929 --> 00:44:48.409
28. And so granted, I was also very young when

00:44:48.409 --> 00:44:50.730
I was raising them. I was raising them as teenagers.

00:44:50.949 --> 00:44:54.599
And I was in my early 20s. And they... I felt

00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:57.340
like I definitely got into this space, this rut

00:44:57.340 --> 00:45:01.260
as a parent where most of our conversations were,

00:45:01.420 --> 00:45:03.699
did you do your homework? Is your is your bag

00:45:03.699 --> 00:45:05.960
packed? Where's that homework assignment? Is

00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.639
it crumpled at the bottom of your backpack? You

00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.699
know, those kind of things. Very, very kind of

00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:14.679
both kind of task oriented and achievement oriented

00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:17.659
in a lot of ways. And I share a lot of demands.

00:45:20.029 --> 00:45:23.409
Yes. And there is time and place for that, for

00:45:23.409 --> 00:45:26.489
sure. That's part of our job as parents. And

00:45:26.489 --> 00:45:30.429
I think a regret that I have is that I felt like

00:45:30.429 --> 00:45:32.550
that was, I felt like once I had done that, and

00:45:32.550 --> 00:45:34.769
probably this is partly because of how young

00:45:34.769 --> 00:45:38.050
I was, I was like, oh, I did my job. Like, yay.

00:45:38.349 --> 00:45:42.349
You did. You did. Like they were safe. They were

00:45:42.349 --> 00:45:44.590
in school. They did what they had to do. Like

00:45:44.590 --> 00:45:47.309
ultimately, that is your responsibility. But

00:45:47.309 --> 00:45:50.269
there's more than that. There's more. satisfaction

00:45:50.269 --> 00:45:52.610
than that isn't there with with the other star

00:45:52.610 --> 00:45:55.489
the extra stuff it seems extra but actually it's

00:45:55.489 --> 00:45:58.289
the foundation star right right you know and

00:45:58.289 --> 00:46:00.769
then and so I worked really hard to shift that

00:46:00.769 --> 00:46:04.050
because I I basically, before I had language

00:46:04.050 --> 00:46:06.989
of five before feedback, I did not have five

00:46:06.989 --> 00:46:09.010
before feedback with my own kids. I knew their

00:46:09.010 --> 00:46:11.389
grades. I knew which things they hadn't turned

00:46:11.389 --> 00:46:14.070
in. I knew what days they had football practice,

00:46:14.389 --> 00:46:17.929
you know, but I didn't know the girl that they

00:46:17.929 --> 00:46:19.949
liked and I didn't know what their favorite shows

00:46:19.949 --> 00:46:22.510
were. And I didn't know why they thought their

00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:24.849
science teacher was so annoying, you know, or

00:46:24.849 --> 00:46:27.449
like whatever it was. It's an interest, isn't

00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:30.210
it? Again, it's helping them feel seen and heard

00:46:30.210 --> 00:46:32.989
and worthy. and then maybe they'll be more interested

00:46:32.989 --> 00:46:35.449
in understanding of you and how satisfying is

00:46:35.449 --> 00:46:37.909
that as a parent or a teacher or an adult in

00:46:37.909 --> 00:46:39.929
their life to have that reciprocal relationship

00:46:39.929 --> 00:46:42.110
with a child especially a teenager let's face

00:46:42.110 --> 00:46:44.610
it it's hard to get receptacle anything from

00:46:44.610 --> 00:46:47.789
a teenager yeah but it starts with us doesn't

00:46:47.789 --> 00:46:50.429
it it starts with us being interested maybe we

00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:53.489
listen to their album that they're playing on

00:46:53.489 --> 00:46:55.070
repeat even though we don't really like it but

00:46:55.070 --> 00:46:56.300
we're listening to it because we're like well,

00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:58.460
what is it about this that's so interesting?

00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.300
Or maybe we're testing out a stim that one of

00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:03.559
our high support needs students like, you know,

00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:06.099
what is it about this that they love so much?

00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:08.099
You know, it's not something I would do naturally,

00:47:08.260 --> 00:47:10.820
but that doesn't mean that we can't be experimenting

00:47:10.820 --> 00:47:15.119
with it and intrigued by it and interested ultimately,

00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.860
I suppose. Yes. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of

00:47:18.860 --> 00:47:21.119
Minecraft, but man, do I know a lot about it

00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.940
now? Like, you know, isn't it? It's really important

00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:25.880
to them. And I feel like when you... do talk

00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.380
about obsidian their eyes light up doesn't it

00:47:29.380 --> 00:47:31.599
and I love that it feels good doesn't it when

00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.980
you have a little fact yeah we had a boy who

00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:37.719
was um year six actually and um he was really

00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:40.760
really into like certain animals and I would

00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:42.719
go home and I'd research about the animal when

00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.639
I came in with a new fact that he didn't know

00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:46.980
like his eyes would just light up because that

00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:49.849
he liked to know the fact certainly I think it

00:47:49.849 --> 00:47:51.710
was more than that. He liked to know that I was

00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:54.389
thinking of him even away from the class. And

00:47:54.389 --> 00:47:56.650
it's that, isn't it? It's those extra that doesn't

00:47:56.650 --> 00:47:59.110
take much. It doesn't cost much, but it's a genuine

00:47:59.110 --> 00:48:02.849
interest in them and their interest and what

00:48:02.849 --> 00:48:06.429
they enjoy. Yes. Yeah. And it meant that when

00:48:06.429 --> 00:48:09.610
he was dysregulated, he trusted me because we'd

00:48:09.610 --> 00:48:12.889
already built that relationship. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

00:48:13.260 --> 00:48:16.340
Absolutely. I think when I was in the classroom,

00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.840
we would teach your core subject and then you'd

00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.539
switch. So I was reading and writing and social

00:48:22.539 --> 00:48:24.599
studies and then somebody else was math and science

00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:26.500
and have half day, half day and then switch.

00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.519
And a lot of times the kids would come back to

00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:33.260
my room if they were dysregulated. And it was

00:48:33.260 --> 00:48:34.639
actually also something that the teacher and

00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:36.360
I had worked out because she was like, I don't

00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:38.199
really understand what's going on over there.

00:48:38.260 --> 00:48:41.019
But if it works, great. And I was like, I don't

00:48:41.019 --> 00:48:42.940
care. They can come in and go back. and forth.

00:48:42.980 --> 00:48:46.000
And like, I didn't have a sensory bin. I didn't

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.480
have like, this was almost 20 years ago. Like

00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:52.860
that was not on the radar, but I have beanbag

00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:55.780
chairs in my room. I hated the overhead lightings

00:48:55.780 --> 00:48:58.340
for myself. So I never had them on. We had lamps

00:48:58.340 --> 00:49:00.980
all over the room. I'm a tea drinker. We had

00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:04.760
a kettle in my classroom and there was tea. And

00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:06.659
I was like, well, if I'm drinking, you can drink

00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:10.880
tea. We always had all of those. We had a refrigerator

00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:13.519
that had tortillas and cheese. You could make

00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.179
a quesadilla for yourself. There was all of these

00:49:16.179 --> 00:49:24.199
ways that now I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah. You're

00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.139
ahead of the curve and you didn't even know why.

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:29.159
No clue why. Well, in reality, I was doing things

00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:31.679
that made me want to spend nine hours in that

00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:35.210
room. yeah yeah and yeah I guess that's how that

00:49:35.210 --> 00:49:37.829
is the foundations right we are adults if we're

00:49:37.829 --> 00:49:40.289
as a teacher feeling like we need to pace and

00:49:40.289 --> 00:49:42.670
move around when we're talking well maybe that's

00:49:42.670 --> 00:49:45.050
a reasonable adjustment to offer your students

00:49:45.050 --> 00:49:47.969
or if we're needing a break for 15 minutes in

00:49:47.969 --> 00:49:50.050
the morning and a sit down and a hot drink maybe

00:49:50.050 --> 00:49:51.269
that's something that your students you know

00:49:51.269 --> 00:49:53.389
it's like remember almost remembering that we're

00:49:53.389 --> 00:49:55.769
all human and like looking at yourself and feeling

00:49:55.769 --> 00:49:58.210
what you need and then offering that to your

00:49:58.210 --> 00:50:00.150
students we've become blind to it though I've

00:50:00.150 --> 00:50:03.449
noticed that since um naming emotions in myself

00:50:03.449 --> 00:50:05.869
so modeling that for my students I'm much more

00:50:05.869 --> 00:50:07.869
aware of what I'm feeling and I realized how

00:50:07.869 --> 00:50:10.309
not aware I was before we started doing that

00:50:10.309 --> 00:50:13.949
like oh I'm feeling blue god yeah I am feeling

00:50:13.949 --> 00:50:17.010
blue like I need to pick me up and before I wouldn't

00:50:17.010 --> 00:50:19.329
have even kind of really acknowledged it I'd

00:50:19.329 --> 00:50:21.469
have just kind of tried to push it down um but

00:50:21.469 --> 00:50:24.369
yeah it's interesting how much we try and ignore

00:50:24.369 --> 00:50:26.909
and we're masking as adults and then they're

00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:31.030
asking them to also Yes, yes. Yeah, I mean, going

00:50:31.030 --> 00:50:33.800
back all the way to kind of the beginning. When

00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:36.860
we were talking about level one autism and, you

00:50:36.860 --> 00:50:39.739
know, some of those profiles, like those those

00:50:39.739 --> 00:50:41.679
can it can be so hard because the regulation

00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:45.880
needs can be so intense because they are high

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:48.360
masking. Right. And a lot of times they don't

00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:50.960
even realize what's been going on for them because

00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.159
they weren't diagnosed early. They missed early

00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:57.079
intervention in the supports in a lot of ways.

00:50:57.179 --> 00:51:01.420
They didn't get a lot of the even like the sensory

00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:03.449
experiences in the past. us with those things

00:51:03.449 --> 00:51:06.610
because either they were so high masking right

00:51:06.610 --> 00:51:10.650
or they were at I hear this a lot too where they

00:51:10.650 --> 00:51:12.650
were at school but then at home they would fall

00:51:12.650 --> 00:51:15.610
apart and so then they people were brought in

00:51:15.610 --> 00:51:18.449
from a behaviorism perspective to try and like

00:51:18.449 --> 00:51:23.010
you know essentially reward and and train the

00:51:23.010 --> 00:51:26.110
behavior like around the behavior and in reality

00:51:26.110 --> 00:51:29.630
a lot of those kids probably needed sensory swings

00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:32.309
and, you know, and these different types of like

00:51:32.309 --> 00:51:35.449
jumping on a trampoline and all of these things

00:51:35.449 --> 00:51:37.250
that would have soothed their nervous systems

00:51:37.250 --> 00:51:41.710
a lot more. And so they're just, they are so,

00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:43.949
they are so, I think a lot, they have a lot of

00:51:43.949 --> 00:51:46.230
anxiety and they're just kind of like anxious.

00:51:46.289 --> 00:51:48.389
They're little, like, I mean, I know I just said

00:51:48.389 --> 00:51:50.570
that, but their bodies, like you can see how

00:51:50.570 --> 00:51:53.250
much tension that they're holding in their bodies

00:51:53.250 --> 00:51:55.590
at all times. And it can sometimes come out in,

00:51:55.650 --> 00:51:58.860
I have a lot of. teenagers and young adults who

00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:02.539
bite their nails, who pull their hair. And a

00:52:02.539 --> 00:52:07.280
lot of it is stemming from unmet needs over years

00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:09.699
that are kind of like pushed out in other ways

00:52:09.699 --> 00:52:12.659
now. And that can be really, really hard as well,

00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:14.579
because then they don't like the result of that.

00:52:14.739 --> 00:52:16.940
You know, I have a couple of people that I work

00:52:16.940 --> 00:52:19.500
with, they have like really bloody fingers, you

00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:22.340
know, and we're like, we got to deal with these

00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:26.510
needs that we have here because that is not helping

00:52:26.510 --> 00:52:29.150
you. That is, you know, and they're like, well,

00:52:29.190 --> 00:52:31.170
could we wear gloves or could we do this or that?

00:52:31.309 --> 00:52:33.989
Yes, for the immediate, right? To make sure that

00:52:33.989 --> 00:52:35.969
this doesn't get infected and that you're not

00:52:35.969 --> 00:52:39.030
causing more harm. And also, let's also address

00:52:39.030 --> 00:52:42.050
this underlying. Yeah, let's find a way of you

00:52:42.050 --> 00:52:44.590
meeting whatever need that is in a more safe

00:52:44.590 --> 00:52:46.869
way or why you have that need in the first place.

00:52:46.909 --> 00:52:48.849
You know, maybe the lights just need to be dim

00:52:48.849 --> 00:52:51.489
or maybe this noise just needs to be awful. Yeah,

00:52:51.570 --> 00:52:56.679
being curious is a definite. the good uh start

00:52:56.679 --> 00:52:59.840
isn't it um you've got some courses haven't you

00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:01.760
uh coming out do you want to explain a little

00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:04.760
bit about those who they're for and how and who

00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:08.519
can access those sure we have an evaluation course

00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.659
that is for parents i really kind of think about

00:53:11.659 --> 00:53:14.760
it in three ways because these are the most common

00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:18.170
that i hear but one is that the they're concerned

00:53:18.170 --> 00:53:20.570
about their child and the teacher isn't. And

00:53:20.570 --> 00:53:24.590
so how to kind of navigate that, if you're concerned

00:53:24.590 --> 00:53:27.909
about your kid and your teacher is also concerned,

00:53:28.010 --> 00:53:31.130
or if you're not concerned about your child and

00:53:31.130 --> 00:53:33.650
then the teacher is, right? And so those are

00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:36.489
kind of three spaces where I hear families get

00:53:36.489 --> 00:53:39.630
into kind of just a little bit of a roadblock

00:53:39.630 --> 00:53:41.889
around like, what do I do? How do I move forward?

00:53:42.130 --> 00:53:45.989
And there are opportunities for support and evaluation

00:53:45.989 --> 00:53:48.670
through the school. school there's opportunities

00:53:48.670 --> 00:53:51.730
for evaluation through the medical model and

00:53:51.730 --> 00:53:54.309
potential supports there you could do both you

00:53:54.309 --> 00:53:56.789
could do neither and so that can just feel like

00:53:56.789 --> 00:53:59.530
a lot of decision fatigue and the course is really

00:53:59.530 --> 00:54:04.019
designed to walk parents through each of those

00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:06.780
kind of pathways. And there's also prototypes

00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:09.440
of different situations. So learning disability

00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:12.820
versus autism. And you can go through and hear

00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:16.500
the profiles and the families and how they went

00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:18.679
through a decision -making process and gives

00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:21.840
parents the same decision -making process that

00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.480
they can use for themselves. And then there's

00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.460
also just a ton of resources. There's a form

00:54:27.460 --> 00:54:29.800
letter that you can use. There's a note -taking

00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:31.960
template when you go and meet with a doctor so

00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:33.360
that you can make... sure that you get all the

00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:35.500
information. Because I don't know if you're anything

00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:38.179
like me and many parents that I've seen, they'll

00:54:38.179 --> 00:54:40.179
come and they'll have pages of packets of paper

00:54:40.179 --> 00:54:41.920
and they're like, hold on, it's somewhere. Let

00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:45.000
me find, I think I saw a note here. And it kind

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.780
of can help organize your thinking for you. We've

00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:50.119
had our own team members use some of the forms

00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:52.800
and things. Like they asked us after we made

00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:55.280
them to use them. So that felt like a good time

00:54:55.280 --> 00:55:00.019
for helpful. So that's available. I would say

00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:02.139
that that's a resource that's really for families

00:55:02.139 --> 00:55:04.820
that are kind of at the beginning of this journey

00:55:04.820 --> 00:55:07.619
where they're saying like, maybe my kid needs

00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:11.260
something more. And then we also have some group

00:55:11.260 --> 00:55:13.960
parenting courses. I'm sorry, group, just like

00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:17.079
group parenting workshops that are going to be

00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:20.539
running in January. And those are for middle

00:55:20.539 --> 00:55:22.920
schoolers and high schoolers. So kind of those

00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.420
middle grades. These, I feel like I keep hearing

00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:29.469
from. so many families that they read the books,

00:55:29.510 --> 00:55:32.730
but a lot of the books are for younger kids who

00:55:32.730 --> 00:55:35.849
are neurodivergent, right? Or they're about teenagers

00:55:35.849 --> 00:55:39.829
in general, but not for the neurodivergent teen.

00:55:40.050 --> 00:55:43.869
And so this was really a hope to fill that need

00:55:43.869 --> 00:55:46.829
for people and give them a space to talk about

00:55:46.829 --> 00:55:48.769
the big things that are coming up for them and

00:55:48.769 --> 00:55:52.090
get resources. We talk about relationships, romantic

00:55:52.090 --> 00:55:55.449
relationships and friendships. We talk about

00:55:55.449 --> 00:55:59.030
technology, social media, ways to navigate that.

00:55:59.170 --> 00:56:03.170
We talk about getting ready for. transitions

00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:05.710
and how to help our kids in the middle years

00:56:05.710 --> 00:56:09.130
kind of get ready for whatever that next phase

00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:11.309
of life is, if they're going to continue to live

00:56:11.309 --> 00:56:13.030
at home, but they're going to work, if they're

00:56:13.030 --> 00:56:15.909
going to go to some type of university, if they

00:56:15.909 --> 00:56:18.710
are going to go into the workforce, you know,

00:56:18.710 --> 00:56:22.210
and how to help kind of prepare them in a way

00:56:22.210 --> 00:56:24.909
that doesn't feel like they're just being, you

00:56:24.909 --> 00:56:27.010
know, kicked out of the nest, but really that

00:56:27.010 --> 00:56:30.489
they are ready. A lot of our parents have anxiety

00:56:30.489 --> 00:56:34.550
about their child being ready to leave the home

00:56:34.550 --> 00:56:38.630
and what that looks like for them. And then they're

00:56:38.630 --> 00:56:41.449
also in this kind of place where it's like, I

00:56:41.449 --> 00:56:43.369
do all these things for my kid. I support my

00:56:43.369 --> 00:56:47.210
kid. And how do I transfer some of that onto

00:56:47.210 --> 00:56:50.210
them, but in a way that doesn't leave them feeling

00:56:50.210 --> 00:56:55.030
more overwhelmed, right? Right. And weird transition

00:56:55.030 --> 00:56:58.760
for parents to get out of that. role too. And

00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:00.699
what that looks like, it's definitely a question

00:57:00.699 --> 00:57:03.360
I get asked all the time. It's so neat. I mean,

00:57:03.380 --> 00:57:05.460
God, the teenage years is so hard to navigate

00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:08.539
anyway, let alone if you have a neurodivergent

00:57:08.539 --> 00:57:12.039
child. So yeah, I can imagine that would be incredibly

00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:15.539
useful for so many parents. And where can they

00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:18.159
find more information on these things if it's

00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:21.559
of interest? Sure. They can go to drmorganbeitelman

00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:24.900
.com. They can join our newsletter to see when

00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:28.829
the next round. of groups come out because we're

00:57:28.829 --> 00:57:30.989
going to do them one in January and we'll do

00:57:30.989 --> 00:57:33.690
one in March more than likely. And then we might

00:57:33.690 --> 00:57:35.530
do one in April. We're not going to do anything

00:57:35.530 --> 00:57:38.150
in May because May is a crazy, crazy month. And

00:57:38.150 --> 00:57:41.030
so really we want to be incredibly responsive

00:57:41.030 --> 00:57:43.530
to the needs of families. If we get to the end

00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:44.909
of January and someone's like, I don't want to

00:57:44.909 --> 00:57:47.710
wait till March. Can we do one in February and

00:57:47.710 --> 00:57:49.530
we have enough interest? We'll do one in February

00:57:49.530 --> 00:57:52.010
also. And so, yeah. So if you're interested.

00:57:52.650 --> 00:57:55.630
You can go to drmorganbibleman .com if you're

00:57:55.630 --> 00:57:58.489
at the beginning of this journey and you're trying

00:57:58.489 --> 00:58:01.170
to figure out evaluation. The course is also

00:58:01.170 --> 00:58:04.849
available there and that you can buy at any time.

00:58:05.050 --> 00:58:07.309
And if you are further along, but you're like,

00:58:07.349 --> 00:58:10.550
those resources sound great. You could also just

00:58:10.550 --> 00:58:13.309
download the resources. I don't think that that

00:58:13.309 --> 00:58:15.150
would be great if you're brand new to the journey

00:58:15.150 --> 00:58:16.670
because I think you'll get the resources and

00:58:16.670 --> 00:58:20.579
be like, what do I do? yeah yeah definitely the

00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:22.559
list will overwhelm the better at that stage

00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:26.019
there's so much absolutely i'll also leave any

00:58:26.019 --> 00:58:28.239
of your links and website in the description

00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:31.440
below this podcast so it's easily findable for

00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:34.940
everybody thank you gosh morgan i could talk

00:58:34.940 --> 00:58:36.659
to you for so long we're gonna have to get you

00:58:36.659 --> 00:58:39.610
on again I was like, I would love to talk again.

00:58:39.630 --> 00:58:42.190
We didn't even get to talk teenagers. No, maybe

00:58:42.190 --> 00:58:45.369
in the new year we can talk about neurodivergent

00:58:45.369 --> 00:58:48.250
teenagers because that is a huge topic on its

00:58:48.250 --> 00:58:52.269
own. I really love talking to you about the,

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:56.769
you know, the neurodivergence in children and

00:58:56.769 --> 00:58:59.210
how to navigate that as a teacher and actually

00:58:59.210 --> 00:59:04.420
having such. accessible steps that are doable

00:59:04.420 --> 00:59:06.920
manageable affordable for anybody who can start

00:59:06.920 --> 00:59:09.179
today and it will make a massive difference to

00:59:09.179 --> 00:59:10.539
all of the children in the class and I think

00:59:10.539 --> 00:59:13.139
we have to start there it makes sense that this

00:59:13.139 --> 00:59:15.539
conversation started there because without that

00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:19.019
how can we then support you know developing children

00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:22.900
and teenagers so um yeah I'm so grateful for

00:59:22.900 --> 00:59:25.199
this conversation and I'm certainly taking a

00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.480
lot from it this week and I hope everybody else

00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:31.119
is is too that's been listening Thank you. It's

00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:33.480
been such a joy talking with you. I could just

00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:38.199
keep blabbing. I loved it. Also, I know if people

00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:40.239
obviously can join your courses and see your

00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:42.940
website, but if people want to find you just

00:59:42.940 --> 00:59:44.300
to ask the odd question about what we've been

00:59:44.300 --> 00:59:46.539
talking about today too, I know I'll leave the

00:59:46.539 --> 00:59:49.059
stuff in the description below because they might

00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:50.800
want to reach out to you with a question. Is

00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:54.039
that okay? Yes, please. Please reach out anytime.

00:59:54.260 --> 00:59:56.780
I also do professional development training.

00:59:57.849 --> 01:00:00.690
I do them all over the place. So happy to do

01:00:00.690 --> 01:00:02.969
that as well. And I do one -on -one coaching

01:00:02.969 --> 01:00:05.590
for neurodivergent teens and young adults. And

01:00:05.590 --> 01:00:07.829
so if that's something that somebody is interested

01:00:07.829 --> 01:00:11.750
in and we have availability and our calendars

01:00:11.750 --> 01:00:14.429
align, like happy to support or refer to other

01:00:14.429 --> 01:00:17.309
people that might be a good fit. Amazing. Thank

01:00:17.309 --> 01:00:20.429
you so much, Morgan. I am so pleased that we've

01:00:20.429 --> 01:00:22.409
had this conversation today. And my homework,

01:00:22.550 --> 01:00:24.530
as well as everybody else listening, is going

01:00:24.530 --> 01:00:27.699
to be starting off with those five things. You

01:00:27.699 --> 01:00:30.480
know, can we name those things about all of our

01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:33.340
children that we support? I think that is a great

01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:36.219
start. Thank you, Morgan. Thank you.