Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
So these episodes are going to be a little bit
different over August. We are going to re -look
at my favourite moments from the podcast from
Series 1. We've had such amazing conversations
this year and thank you so much to everybody
who has been on the podcast. You've been incredible.
And thank you so much for all the listeners for
your support so that we can continue this for
Series 2 from September. I hope you enjoy taking
a look back at... yeah my favorite moment that
particular year of Hallie going to school me
leaving my job that first year of the school
refusals and then the amount of meetings and
it's just I can't I can feel even talking about
it I can feel the tightness like of just having
to go to those meetings and have a try and advocate
for myself because again I don't think teachers
mean to do it I really don't I don't think they
mean to do it at all but because of the process
that they've got in place of you've got to do
this and you've got to do that it makes as a
parent you feel like that's blaming you and it
is just so it's like bring her in this time bring
her in that time so they're obviously there's
an attendance policy and obviously that's what
they're trying to meet and I'm like I'm not going
to bring her in in her pajamas I'm not going
to bring her in screaming without a head and
without a teeth brush like it's just not not
fair yeah she really doesn't want to come to
the point that she's not even allowing me to
meet her basic needs so but then there's that
then like say there's that attendance policy
that then yeah but ultimately I think you made
the right decision though because she was communicating
that she wasn't happy there wasn't she that's
what she was communicating if that behavior and
all that output of what she was doing whatever
it was was words it would have been saying I
don't feel safe there I can't be myself there
or whatever it was you know she was communicating
that she wasn't happy so you had to be her voice
in that moment didn't you and it sounds like
you did that really well is there anything looking
back now the fog's cleared a little bit one year
on is it one year one or two September was when
I took them out of school. Okay, so it's nearly
a year. I think I've been at my job about a year.
Okay, okay, so maybe nine months. Now the fog's
cleared a little bit. And you're a little bit
more settled in what you're doing now, and we'll
get into that in a bit. Looking back, is there
anything that you wished you could have done
or that the school could have done differently?
I think for me, because I was at the time such
a worrier and cared so much about what everyone
was thinking about me, I don't think I was as
transparent as what I could have been. Especially
when it came to sort of how Hallie was struggling
and I think sometimes I wanted to go along with
things, be a bit of a pleaser, be like, yeah,
we can try that, we can try that, even though
I know deep down that's not going to work, I
know it's not, but the pleaser in me was wanting
to go along with that to make them happy and
look like a good person, I guess. And now I feel
like I've gained that confidence. I wish I had
it back then. I wish I had that voice back then
to be a bit braver and to say exactly what I
was thinking. Yeah, I would have definitely done
that differently. I would have been just, yeah,
more transparent in what we needed. From the
school's point of view. I'm really not sure because
I felt, I did feel like they was trying really
hard. They had, you know, even if they didn't
have a member of staff for her all the time because
she wasn't, I can't remember how many hours it
was now, but it wasn't all the time. But they
would always try to accommodate for her. So they'd
take her outside. And so I always felt like they
were trying and they'd like done a little corner
for her. They'd got her a swing for outside as
well. So I always felt like they were really
trying. I think what it comes down to is money.
i really think that's what it is it's that there
wasn't enough money and they just couldn't do
it but they don't know if it feels it feels like
sometimes that they want you to make you this
might just be a parent thing but like they make
you want to feel like everything's okay so you
don't ask so you don't want more and yeah you
feel like you can't ask for anything like what
you're getting is amazing and you yeah you can't
ask for anything more than that I don't know
if that makes sense it definitely makes sense
that the idea is well you're already getting
so much already you're already getting more than
more than most there isn't anything else even
if yeah even if that baseline isn't meeting your
child's needs which of course shouldn't be the
case should it like every child should be able
to access education and be included it sounds
it sounds good to me that they were making reasonable
adjustments and and yeah doing that to support
Hallie and being there did did you feel at the
time that they wanted her there did you feel
like they were really trying to include her and
involve her in school as much as they could yeah
i definitely think that they were I know, like,
she had a few friends and things like that. Like,
it was actually quite strange because even, like,
when I'd gone in for, when I'd gone to watch
my older daughter's sports day and I could see
her in the outdoor area playing and she did look
so, when she was there, she looked happy. Like,
I saw her, she looked happy. And, yeah, they
would do all sorts for her. And it was just then
when she was at home and then in the mornings,
it was this extreme. didn't want to go so and
I know there was a lot of masking going on even
though she wasn't a complete masker so she didn't
always she would she would like sort of get upset
and lay in the floor and refuse to do things
and she would do all of that if she really didn't
want to do anything like PE I know at times was
a real struggle So I know she would express herself,
but there's also times where she would mask as
well. Because even though she would have like
her nappy and her pushchair and things that other
children didn't have, as soon as we got into
the school, she would literally want me to like,
you know, the pushchair not to be in sight. So
I knew there was things like that, that she was
actually masking. So maybe it was that there
was a lot of, in school, maybe there was more
masking going on than what I know. And then that
makes sense, doesn't it? That she'd have found
that exhausting. trying to suppress all of these
things that are just you must have just been
absolutely exhausting for her. And often transitions
are really tricky too, you know, that transition
between home and school, crossing those thresholds,
the walk -in. You know, school can't be predictable
all the time, however much we try to be. We try
to have a solid routine, we try to have visuals,
but there are things that we can't. foresee like
people being absent or a special day or a non
you know non -uniform day that it happens and
that bubbling up inside you must be really anxiety
provoking not knowing what you were coming into
if that is what was happening yeah like you say
it's no reflection on the school necessarily
it just isn't maybe the right environment for
her as well like the more i've learned about
pda he would have been there would have been
so many demands there that she would have been
going along with even though there were times
like p i know there was certain things i could
say that she just she would not do and whether
that was more a sensory or something was more
triggering for her but there must have been so
many demands that she was going along with all
day every day because she would I would pick
her up from school and sometimes she would as
soon as she saw me she would just burst into
tears and she would either just like sort of
run over to me she'd put herself in the push
chair at that point at the end of the day morning
she wouldn't but end of the day she didn't put
her hood over she don't want to see no one and
then it could take me 20 minutes half an hour
to get her to the car because then she might
try and get out of the push chair so it was after
school was just such a difficult time to get
her home and then she would get home and she
wouldn't even even still a little bit now but
it was a lot worse then like she wouldn't eat
food with people and she would just completely
isolate herself and it would just be from the
moment of getting her home from school until
whenever she went to bed because she goes to
bed quite late it would just be meltdown after
meltdown or isolation because she'd been holding
it together all day hadn't she she'd been you
know following the instructions and holding it
together all day all day all day and all of a
sudden she's with her safe people you her family
she can go oh but then she's got nothing where
she can't follow any she can't keep herself safe
she can't follow instructions or direction it's
too much i'd love to hear your thoughts on sensory
circuits. Yeah, you're right. So much behaviour
is sensory driven. Not all of it. Of course,
there's umpteen reasons why children behave the
way that they do. And partly why I love working
with kids so much is because I'm investigating
what could it be? because I need to know what
it could be so that I can try and solve the problem.
But a lot of the time, yes, it is sensory. It
has a huge impact on somebody's ability to participate
in their day, enjoy their day, enjoy the things
that they're doing, enjoy the environment that
they're in. And if we can meet their sensory
needs, then we can just make that whole day nicer
for them. We've all got sensory needs, all of
us. We all have our individual sensory preferences.
For example, I like to work in silence. I like
a really quiet environment. My teenage daughter
likes to listen to music while she works. We're
in the same room together. If we were in the
same class, it becomes very hard because her
needs are to listen to music. My needs are to
have silence. So when we're doing sensory diets,
for example, that's about trying to meet the
individual needs of somebody and give them what
they need to make that environment right for
them. So give them more of the sensations that
they need. Take away some of the sensations that
they don't need and maybe give them more of sensations.
that they would find calming or regulating or
grounding, whichever word you choose to use to
apply that to. Where were we going there, Jordan?
I've just gone off on a tangent there and gone,
oh, hang on, bring me back to the question that
you asked. Sensory circuits and sensory diet.
So that was a way of making it individual, isn't
it? So the music one is great, is a great example
because you've either got music on or haven't.
But what if we offer headphones maybe for a child
that does want music? That is something that
you could do in class that doesn't impact everybody
else. Yes. So, I mean, like musical headphones
or headphones for a learner that doesn't want
the music. Or maybe be careful about what music
you have on. Or maybe it's actually white noise
that helps them. And then actually that helps
everybody maybe. You know, it's all about experimentation,
isn't it? It is. And see what happens. It's not
an exact science. So I can't look at a child
and go, ah, they need X, Y and Z and everything
will be fine. It is trial and error to try and
figure it out, especially if they can't tell
us what it is that's going on. And lots can't
because they may not have the cognitive. cognitive
ability. They may not have the verbal ability.
If their interception isn't good, they may not
know why it doesn't feel right. They'll just
know that it doesn't feel right. And we've got
to help them unpick that. And then, so that sensory
diet, that's more individual. What about sensory
circuits? How does that fit in as part of that?
conversation yeah if we can get things right
on an individual basis that's brilliant and i
know you're using the term sensory diet it's
quite like there's a few other terms being floated
around quite like sensory lifestyle as a bit
of like that yeah because that means it's more
consistent yes and it's what you need in the
environment around you for your life so that
one feels quite nice to me sensory circuits are
a really good way of meeting the needs of a lot
of children most of the time because we're giving
them the input that regulates most children most
of the time and sometimes when we're in schools
we can't do all of the individual needs all of
the time because it's the real world things don't
always work that way so sensory circuits can
be a fantastic way of getting lots and lots of
regulating movement input in for a child to really
sort their nervous system out if you like so
that the rest of the day becomes okay becomes
things that they can cope with so it's a great
almost one size fits all with a few little tweaks
and sometimes we have to do the best we can with
what we've got to work with don't we and movement
sensory circuits sensory movement breaks whatever
we're calling them can work brilliantly for that
yeah there's like a maybe a three -step approach
so alerting and then organizing and grounding
i've spoken about this lots before on my account
if you're if you're not sure do all children
necessarily need to start with alerting though
that's a brilliant question i might have to kiss
you now for raising that one you know only because
it's something i've been experimenting with if
they're already alert do they need more alerting
to like let it go in a safe way or do you are
they already alert and you do organizing yeah
it's a really good question so I totally agree
your traditional circuits have those three areas
and if you don't know where to start that's a
really great place to start do some alerting
do some organizing then do some grounding or
calming activities but no you're right not all
children need it and like all good rules they
are there to be broken aren't they so not all
children do need the alerting activities if you've
got a child who's already looking like they're
a little bit in that fight flight zone then actually
an alerting activity might be really wrong for
them it might even take them further along that
fight or flight response because it's scary and
they're not in a good place to do it so no you
can mix and match you might have somebody that
just wants some grounding activities or some
calming activities you might have somebody that
needs lots more alerting activities it might
depend on the child it might depend on the time
of day maybe we arrive at school and we're sort
of hyper alert because the transition and the
morning has all been quite stressful and we need
to come in and have a little bit of a calming
session, a little bit of a grounding session
to feel okay to then go into class and carry
on. Maybe after lunch we've had a big dinner,
we're a little bit sleepy, we need some more
alerting stuff to wake us up and tune us in to
what's going on on the world around us. So those
Yeah, you can mess around with them and test
it. See what happens. See what's right for the
child. Our organising stuff is brilliant. It
comes back to that proprioceptive input. We can't
really go wrong with those on the whole. If somebody
was in crisis, I perhaps wouldn't do it. But
on the whole, they work for everybody. So they're
a really good place to be. And it's quite a wide
span of organising activities, isn't there? There
could be obstacle courses. So you're moving quite
gross motor. wise rolling and all those kind
of things balancing but also it can be some quite
fine motor stuff we do some threading and puzzles
and sorting is is also organizing so also within
organizing have a think about does it look like
gross motor balancing that they need or does
it look like quiet organizing and sorting alphabet
for example maybe that grounds them I always
like to explain it to my teaching assistants
as when I'm stressed I like to write a list on
my phone like a little tick box because that
helps me see everything that I need and feel
organized and in control and that's basically
what the organizing is offering for our children
whether that's getting their body in control
in a quite a physical way or sorting out all
the thoughts in their mind and lots of my learners
find either sorting colors by rainbow order or
sorting the alphabet or sorting numbers makes
things feel in control because ultimately lots
of our learners have so little control over their
lives and their bodies and their voice and everything.
But actually by giving them those opportunities
to practice control within their special interests
can be really regulating, even if they don't
need the alerting and the grounding. So I really
do like the organizing part of it actually. And
then for me, the alerting and the grounding are
very quiet. quite child specific I can think
of some learners that I certainly wouldn't want
to finish with grounding because they they're
so they're sluggish and slow normally that that
certainly wouldn't help them focus or concentrate
in whatever we're doing next if we were to finish
with grounding but same for lots of my learners
I've got lots of climbers and jumpers and throwers
in my room that if I was to do too much alerting
then we also weren't going to get focused and
still either so it is also about knowing your
class and And that flexibility within that as
well, isn't there? Absolutely, yes. Feel free
to break the rules sometimes and do what works
for your individual learner. And remembering
their individual preferences as well, because
what might be calming to one person might not
be fun. Digging the garden. That would be a great
proprioceptive input. I don't want to do that.
Thank you very much. I really, really don't want
to do that. I'd rather go and do something else.
So again, it's recognizing that although it might
be a grounding activity. for somebody that might
really wind them up because they don't like it.
Yeah, so it could meet their needs on a practical
level really well, but actually if it's not of
interest to them and it feels forceful in a way,
then that's actually not going to be regulating.
In fact, that's going to be quite heightening,
even if the actual thing is grounding. And that's
sometimes where I see things go wrong in classes
because you do something that the textbook says
should do this thing and it doesn't and you don't
know why. And it's always worth thinking about
individual preferences and how the activity's
been done. I suppose it's about approach as well,
isn't it? You know, how are you approaching it?
Is it, what are the adults doing in that situation?
Are they controlling the activity and kind of
forcing the activity? Or are they just doing
the activity and making it as fun and as motivating
as possible? Are they planning for activities
that they know the children will like because
they're really similar to what they're already
naturally doing or their special interests? it's
how it's sold as well I think if I was to say
like my children love the obstacle courses they
really love it but if I was to say to lots of
my people if I was to stand there and say right
off you go like and treat it like a work task
or treat it like a you know, this is something
for you to do and you have to do it and then
you can get what you want. It wouldn't work.
It wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't be motivating
and they wouldn't get anything out of it. In
fact, they find it really heightening or boring.
Whereas if all of the supporting adults are doing
it and being silly and modelling how fun it is
and adapting to whatever the children want to
do and being quite child -led in that way, it
makes the exact same activity a very, very different
outcome. Absolutely, yes. Children learn through
play. They want to engage in things that are
fun. Yeah, release your inner child, I always
say in my training. This is your license to release
your inner child. Get in there and play and enjoy
it. Do you battle or configure the whole age
appropriateness conversation? I know some people
have quite strong opinions on it being age appropriate
or stage appropriate. Like how do you, with secondary
school pupils, I can imagine it comes up a lot
and is in your mind quite a lot. How do you navigate?
that it's so good like it's so true especially
when it comes to stories because i think that
actually stories in english you know the children
where they are in terms of their levels you'd
be like but then that's the book and i'm like
well that's not really age appropriate like early
years early years or preschool kind of even stuff
yeah definitely um and then the books are sometimes
just they're not appropriate at all because they
are so young in age and also i'm like you've
now in secondary you've probably potentially
seen this book as well a significant amount of
time why are you going to bother listening to
me we're going on a bear hunt is like yeah exactly
yeah so um we have like i think me and like my
co -teacher next door we work really hard on
trying to find books that are not only giving
that sensory well we can allow it to give them
that sensory experience but we just adapt it
so like the book now for example is such a good
example of a book that has a lot of language
in if you were to look through the book it's
got quite a lot of language in but the first
look i think to be fair the first look i always
give any book is like oh my gosh right okay challenge
acceptance because it's like oh not again but
it's just taking it and stripping it back so
it's still a book about deadly animals and it's
still a book about animals but rather than all
the other language in between it's just you know
what does the shark Where's the shark live? What's
his deadly feature? Sharp teeth. Done. And then
in that, on our PowerPoints, we'll make a PowerPoint
for it. We'll sort of just scan the book in.
And it just has really simple using widgets,
using symbols. Has very much as a sentence. Done.
Because then the book is still appropriate. It's
then not sort of a early years style book that
just isn't appropriate. It's got real pictures
in. You know, it's got all of those things. Yeah,
I love that it's non -fiction. That's so great.
so three stories can be non -fiction yeah exactly
and i just think like we then just do a lot of
adapting just to make it meet the needs and you
know we have had battles before we're like no
this book we can't do that book it's not it's
not appropriate because it's far too advanced
the language in it is so complex actually our
journey to try and make that it just wouldn't
work so let's try and think about a different
book So I suppose if you're focusing, what are
we actually getting out of this? What are the
kids getting out of this? What is our main aim
here? Okay, it's for sentence building, right?
Does this motivate the children in order to do
that? And if the answer is yes, like about Deadly
Annals, I find that it's incredibly motivating
and interesting. It's great. if it's a classic
book that isn't really interesting them isn't
keeping their engagement you're not even really
enjoying like it's it's gonna be pointless isn't
it and equally so a preschool book that might
be stage appropriate for them as far as their
understanding goes yeah like if they've heard
it before it's not going to engage them because
it's not exciting to them it doesn't engage them
in that way yeah and i think it's really interesting
actually like literally on friday we had some
talk for writing um training And we were talking
about that, about like the propriety of some
of the books and that age, because it is really
tricky because, you know, you have to look at
like, right, they are secondary. We've got to
make sure that we are fitting it right for them,
but also it meets their needs, but it's also
engaging enough. And it's not something that
is just on repeat all the time. It's not just,
let's just give them this book. And the one that
they use is Little Red Riding Hood. And I just
thought it was a really nice example of the fact
that actually, There's so many adaptations of
that book and, you know, the classic story. It
doesn't have to just be the classic story. We
can adapt it just like we do everything else.
You know, we adapt everything. So why don't we
just adapt it to make sure we're meeting the
needs and their age range rather than just...
yeah yeah we're going on a bear hunt or the gruffalo
you know well that's almost the lazy way out
isn't it gruffalo bear hunt yeah exactly that
it's the lazy belt because it's just hand of
surprise there's another one yeah because it
lends itself so well to sensory of course and
it does make a great sensory story but i think
what you said is a really great point yes they
might be into in the night garden yes they might
be entertained hubbies too that's cool like that's
awesome i'll celebrate all them all their interests
that's awesome but it's the idea of that actually
They've repeated this so many times. Is this
engaging or interesting to them? What else can
they get out of it? And actually, that's quite
lazy, I think. Quite lazy teaching. Whereas how
exciting to get a new book in a new way, but
actually taking all the fundamentals that Gruffalo
and Bearhander are so great for is repetitive
language, simple sentence structure, it's predictable.
All of those things you could put into any book
if you put the time in. Yeah, and I think that's
the thing, you know, it's not easy. And, you
know, I do think that's where in SCN, you know,
there isn't just, well, you're lucky if it's
not just you and there is a team of you. And
I think that's the thing, you know, me and my
co -teacher, it is just great because I'm like,
right, this term wasn't my term, it was her term.
So obviously we... work together but she's the
one that goes through the books all out and i
just think it really helps them because it's
like yeah we can make this work it's just we
just got to put that teacher hat on that we do
have to and we know our students so well as to
what bits about this book are they going to really
really love and what parts can we you know they've
loved it and the sensory elements as well you
know we've got tongues to stick out for the frogs
we've got like a lion tongue that we have this
all like spiky and they just loved it and also
so many of them just love animals anyway it's
such a you know like little they just love it
like and there's so many different things you
can link it to yeah um and i think i say like
you know lots of the children here as well we
do have those obsessions in other areas and it's
about celebrating that in a different way you
know or bringing that into the curriculum in
another way you know for example doing big and
small bringing up big and small of symbols of
things like the teletubbies you know why don't
we just do a sorting activity being as well with
teletubbies like that's fine we can introduce
whatever your likes are into the curriculum but
we can also inject other things it doesn't mean
it just just has to be that let's expand your
interest let's expand your knowledge yeah rather
than getting stuck like that's cool we can celebrate
that but also have you seen this like this is
also so fun i think you'll love this absolutely
i think that's just what's really like yeah it's
really powerful and really good and it's also
it's also important and and you know what if
it's like well okay it's clear that you do not
like this that's fine because that's that's also
you know good life skills to go right i don't
like this book or i don't like this part i've
made it very clear i don't like this and that's
okay like we hear you we listen to you yeah protest
and rejection is great communication right yeah
a lot of times like right i hear you like you
don't like this that's absolutely fine i'm gonna
stop we don't have to carry on we'll do something
different But it's also about just getting that
fine balance, I think, of injecting new things
so that it is exciting for them and we can give
them some new experiences, whether that be through
storytelling, whether that be through our curriculum,
but also celebrating themselves and what their
likes are and how we can bring that into it as
well. If you were changing your story weekly,
there is absolutely no way you could build a
story so rich and engaging and spend all that
time creating that. Getting the resources, buying
the resources, making it so suitable to them
and also getting them to know it enough and hear
it enough that they know what to do and find
it predictable every week. Like you just couldn't
do that. It's only because you're doing a story
a term that you're able to invest your time and
energy and finances in to make the story like
the best thing ever using all these incredible
resources. So if you're a teacher hearing this
thinking, I'd love to be able to do this, maybe
just look at it. your timetable maybe look at
your planning your long -term planning and stretch
it out a little bit give yourself that time to
really focus and open up what this topic could
really offer yeah and i think also when it comes
to things like sensory stories you've got to
just go with it you know you've got to just allow
that time you know however long that might take
because there'll be parts of the story where
it's very clear my students aren't a big fan
of that page they don't quite like the part of
the okay that's fine we can move on or there's
another part of the book that they absolutely
love that sensory immersed experience like we're
going to sit in this for a little bit because
you're enjoying it and it's nice to see and we're
getting some feedback we're getting a to and
from here and i think like literally say like
it is it is good and it is it does take time
and it does take resourcing you know like it
won't be probably next week that i'm like right
what's next term's book let's start putting it
all together because that is and you know that
is just part of teaching we just constantly are
looking at me next but having that time and i
just think that's also really important just
to sit sometimes in that time you know i do sensory
day of the week which you might have seen on
my instagrams before and like my children just
love that and we just sit we just sit in that
sensory experience put on the relaxation music
we have the bubbles we have all the the toys
and the smells associated with that day and we
just sit and just enjoy that whole sensory experience
and i just think i get i get that asked a lot
to be fair on social like how do you find the
time for this and we're just it just a 10 minute
pocket like if that's all you can find is a 10
minute pocket in your timetable i guarantee you'll
see some incredible things because i just those
amazing things are set up Yeah. Repeat it, right?
So do you do that every morning, that day of
the week? Yeah, we'll either do it in the morning
before, sort of like in before lunch, or we'll
do it when we come back after lunch. It's very
much, but it's all there. So like, you know,
there's a pocket. And again, it did take time
to set up. It does take time to print the visuals,
get that together, find as many red themed fidget
toys as you can, and then go back to it and go,
right, yeah, they've been chewed. We need to
make sure we're changing those up and all that
kind of stuff. And the scents. but it's now it's
there it's done you know we just add to it that's
all i'm doing now is just adding to it and yeah
we do it every day and it's just a really lovely
experience for them and it was something i started
last year and i was like gosh and i was just
seeing like a complete almost like zen like relaxation
like everyone's shoulders sort of just drop like
yeah nice so they find it relaxing and also it
is helping them to feel grounded in the week
right they know what day of the week it is which
gives them some comfort and some they can predict
what might happen that day yeah it's a blue friday
and it's coconut and it's a swimming day and
they were like yeah i know that blue and coconut
now means swimming and they're kind of slowly
piecing those things together i can be excited
that it's a swimming day now whereas maybe I
don't know, maybe if we come in on a Monday,
they might be predicting it and then we might
think, oh, where does all this behaviour come
from? Where does all this anxiety come from?
Well, they thought it was a swimming day, whereas
we're telling them, aren't we, this isn't a swimming
day. Hopefully it will ease their anxiety and
help their understanding. Absolutely. And then
maybe reduce unsafe behaviours. I've worked in
special needs schools and obviously the range
of need is so high, but it always comes down
to there's... autism sessions or there's sensory
processing sessions and there's quiet sessions
but even still she still couldn't get in And
I always remember specifically, we went to a
local trampoline park and they were advertising.
There's a scent session, there's a scent session,
there's a scent session. I was like, great, because
she loves rebound at school. We have a trampoline
in the garden. We can make it work between us.
If we take enough people, we can lift her up
out of her chair and onto a trampoline. And she'll
love that. And we turned up and they were like,
OK, you're here for the session. We were like,
yeah, let's sign in, whatever. Did all the waivers.
Walked through the door. And the only way to
get to the trampoline was up steps. And I said,
well, she can't actually get in. And they went,
oh, well, you have to carry her up. And I said,
but you were... wouldn't say that to someone
else you wouldn't say that to a child who was
walking and yeah you just wouldn't say that um
so things like that were really important that
actually if a child's coming in a wheelchair
be that powered a small one self -propelling
whatever they're doing that they could get in
the venue initially but then even still once
they're in that the point of access wasn't just
that they can get in the venue the doors need
to be double doors they need to be automatic
there needs to be buttons there needs to be a
change in places mobile hoist ceiling hoist whatever
that kind of setup is there needs to be an option
and yes even now we don't have a ceiling hoist
in half the rooms because we hire a local send
primary school and obviously they not as adapted
as they possibly can be because they're suiting
a massive range of needs. But if a child wants
to get out in soft play, we have a mobile hoist
that we can take to soft play. And in an ideal
world, we'd just have ceiling tracking everywhere.
But obviously we can't do that unless we had
our own venue. But at the same point, they can
still get out in a mobile hoist. I can take it
outside. We can take it into the hall. We can
take it wherever we need to. But if they need
to change in places, we've got the bed with sides.
It's comfy. It's not just a massage bed that's
been put in the cupboard and gone, oh, that's
suitable for you. get changed on it's private
it's bespoke we've got all them things and that
for me especially because my sister I always
say if she can't get in and access it to the
way we'd want to go somewhere and access it then
there's no point doing it because yeah there's
going to be children with needs just as high
as hers but also children that need even greater
need and if we can't even meet at that level
it's not it's not inclusive basic needs of toilet
access you know then you can't call yourself
a send session can you and I can see totally
see where that frustration comes from years of
attending these oh finally there's a session
that we can both enjoy and then you can't even
get through the door yeah it's it's false advertising
isn't it and yeah I know they call it green washing
when it's about eco stuff maybe it's a disability
washing you know they're just ticking a box to
say they're doing a send session and actually
there is so much more to meeting that if you
actually cared about the disabled community that
you would make fully accessible sessions and
also can we just say not on a random time on
a saturday that no one else wants anyway i was
gonna say this so yeah the trampoline center
and i'm sure families who listen to us who are
local first will know exactly what i'm talking
about their center is on sunday at four till
six My sister's like on wind down time. She loves
to see Bibi's bedtime story every night. She's
ready to watch that. She's not ready for a day,
like an hour trip out to trampolining. Yeah.
Like even me as an adult, I'd be like, oh, that's
a bit much for me on a Sunday, especially if
she has school the next day. It's totally inappropriate,
isn't it? It's just, it's not appropriate at
all. And the amount of sessions we've been to
where it's on like a Wednesday night at eight
o 'clock at night. And it's like, well, no, she
wants to go to bed. If you actually saw how much
she's done today, when it's physio, swimming,
she's done all these things. She's exhausted
come four o 'clock, let alone then finding the
energy to come out again. But also then on us
as a family to extend our day even more so, because
I think they often forget that actually parents
and siblings who are supporting with the care,
when they go to bed, that is usually your time
off and that's your bit of respite. But if we're
then dragging the day even longer, as much of
that experience is nice, we've then not had that.
decompressing time or maybe we're preparing medication
or doing food prep or something in that time
we've had to shovel that back and then maybe
we're not going to bed for two hours later because
we've wanted to do something nice and then probably
had an issue anyway or she's then tired because
of it so it's kind of yeah but that still happens
everywhere every session we see the times are
just so inaccessible if you could use this platform
or imagine you're in a room and all of these
big businesses are listening From a sibling's
point of view, what would you say to them to
help them understand the importance of having
accessible, realistically timed, fully accessible
sessions for you as a sibling and you as a family
and for your sister? Yeah, I think they need
to look at it in a sense that her needs are not
separate from our needs and that it should suit
us, not her. And that isn't a way of saying,
OK, well, she can come at this time. but you
get to tag along as well actually no we want
to come on our schedule which is on a Saturday
afternoon or on a Saturday morning or we've just
been out for lunch on a Sunday afternoon and
we want to go and do something afterwards we're
not the second fault we shouldn't be that have
to fall to your normal session, which I think
is what they often see it as. There's, oh, we
can't make as much money on this session. Yeah,
but you could if you actually put it at the right
time. And they often don't see that point of
view. But I always say you have to have lived
experience and businesses should be consulting
local schools, local parents, care and care forums,
whatever that looks like, to say actually what
does work because they're just doing it as a,
we've made it. inclusive but not accessible so
you're completely missing the point um but yeah
i think they need massive massive input from
families siblings even the young people themselves
because i know so many young people who could
say i don't want to do that at eight o 'clock
at night i want my bedtime routine i want whatever
that is and that they need to move that to the
daytime and ultimately try it if it doesn't work
fair enough that's completely fine because not
everyone wants to do those things but arguing
that oh it's not gonna sell it's not gonna because
there's much money well how do you know you don't
know until you try and we always say that at
Ladybug Lodge we don't know if something's going
to work until we try and that has been things
that haven't worked or families haven't enjoyed
but if we didn't do that we wouldn't get the
feedback whereas all these companies get now
is negative press because families aren't happy
with it but then they don't do anything about
it so yeah it's a it's an interesting one they
need to yeah really kind of see it as a if this
was a normal family for example what would they
do they'd come on a tour Come at two o 'clock
on a Saturday, eight o 'clock. Looking back to
when you were a child and a young teen, if you
had really great and broad access to those activities
that you could enjoy with your sister at a suitable
time that were totally fun for both of you, just
like you offered yours, you know, if you had
a really broad section, if that was available
to you when you were younger, what difference
and impact would that have had on you as a sibling?
and for your sister and maybe your parents as
well yeah well i think it'd just be massive like
we we offer in the holidays especially um which
is so loved is swimming in a hydrotherapy pool
um and it's private session there's only six
people in the pool at a time the pool is heated
which is such a key thing for my sister that
if we go to a standard swimming pool it's too
cold and she wants to get out and because of
her needs she can obviously do a bit of physio
in the pool and she needs hoisting in if we could
have done that every weekend since she was little
the difference in her leg mobility her arm ability
all of that could be astronomical now but we
will obviously never know um which I think is
really hard because she can swim nearly which
is incredible for her but if she had that regular
input all the time we could go swimming all the
time and not be thinking about oh we're working
we're not playing actually she probably could
play and join in with some activities and games
whereas now because we haven't had that time
we're so quick to go let's do a bit of physio
let's do this and it takes the fun out of it
whereas if we'd been doing this forever now it
would just be fun which we're kind of getting
to that point now but when I was 12 I would have
loved to have got in the pool and been diving
around and smashing her and soaking her and not
worrying that oh she's going to swallow too much
water or she's not going to react in time or
we're going to need three people in the pool
actually she would have just been able to play
um and I think for me when I was younger because
I didn't have other siblings I very much relied
on friends to get like fun moments with and yes
we've had amazing experiences and memories that
I will never forget but there's things that I'm
going oh but I've never done that with her and
I've only done that with my friends or she's
never seen me do this or we've never done that
together And I think that would have been the
big difference. But I think especially for my
mum, trying to split that time was so hard because
my sister's needs are obviously so much greater
than mine. But for her to have maybe had some
times where she can just sit and watch us play
and not be thinking, I need to do this soon,
or I've got to do this, or I'm starting to think
about this, or I've got to drop Josie here soon
because I need to take Rosie to there. She wouldn't
have had that constant kind of monologue. blocking
in her mind that she has to do all these things
she might have just been able to sit and go this
is really nice i'm they're playing i can do something
leisurely because i'm not thinking about it too
much um but yeah i we did have obviously amazing
experiences but even now i think it's only been
in the last four or five years that we've done
things that rosie's really loved like we went
kayaking for the first time she went rock climbing
and she loved that and we have traveled further
to do that But we would have done that every
single year if we knew it was an option, whereas
it's only really started to come up now, which
I think is a shame because obviously as she's
got bigger, her needs have got bigger and things
are now less accessible because she's heavier
and we can't lift. Whereas when she was five
or six, we would have easily done these activities
quite often, whereas now we have to be limited
because of her tiredness or... our backs or whatever
that is or manual handling equipment whereas
if she could have done that when she was really
young it could have been something that she's
done every single year every month or been an
activity that she actively chooses for actively
wants to do whereas now she hasn't really had
that and it's a bit more sporadic like oh we're
going to try this and so i think that would have
just been massive for us to have do you have
any advice for anxious for an anxious child not
wanting to attend school so many oh so many many
i know i mean my advice first thing is whether
it's their own child is or or you know there's
no child in your class it's just trying to work
out what it is that is causing that anxiety is
it something that's happening on the transition
is it something that's happening at school take
the learning out of the equation at the moment
we need to make sure this this person is feeling
safe at school and obviously at the moment they're
not and it's trying to identify Definitely. And
I'm assuming if they're a parent, it's advocating
for them, almost fighting their corner of, look,
can we just not wear uniform? Can we just come
an hour late and just come for half an hour?
Can they just see, work with this teacher in
the corridor under the table? Can they just wear,
you know, trainers and bring their teddy? Can
they, I've got a student that comes in with a
blanket over their head. Yeah, I've got someone
who comes in with a dressing gown, dark glasses,
with a bag. What does it bother me if I try?
It doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. You
know, but that's not what we should be doing.
No, no, no. Make the timetable desirable for
them. Maybe they just joined PE if that's their
thing. And then we work up from there. Backward
chain it. You know, just do the... do start with
the things that you know they can achieve and
then hopefully they build confidence and we build
confidence because often they're feeling the
parents anxiety because there's so much pressure
because they've got to go to work and then the
teacher's anxiety because they've got to keep
them here because mom said we can't call her
because she's at work today or whatever you know
there's so much anxiety around it that's not
even anything to do with the child let's see
what works let's see how we can work with that
because otherwise the alternative is they will
be home all the time so so if we can get them
into school even for half an hour at first and
work and then build on that that would be good
but but have it be because of the child's best
interest to have half an hour be at half an hour
school not because it's in the school's best
interest let me be really clear about that this
is the child leading the time and the child leading
the timetable not the staff can't cope for more
than half an hour that's not what i'm talking
about that is that's another that's a whole If
the child can only cope with short stints, certain
lessons, certain teachers, certain areas, start
there. Take the demand off, definitely. And it
might just be the transition alone is enough.
So it might just be the first few days of just
driving to the gate, giving a high five to the
teacher and going home again. And that is seen
as a success. I've had a couple of refusers that
have dropped siblings off and then expected to
go home again. And it ended up as it was too
loud. class or it's too busy or they weren't
being seen heard played with understood they
wanted a break from their sibling you know there's
so many reasons why they'd want to and it's just
about unpicking that isn't it and again like
we started right at the beginning creating that
heaven for them creating that that amazing environment
that of course they want to be in and feel safe
in and yeah if you're a parent you could know
all of this stuff and you're like yeah i know
but the school aren't listening hammer the school
with with information you know keep keep at it
yeah i mean that you know you always hear you
know staff saying we've got a difficult parent
here and it's like no no no they're advocating
you know yeah i always say to parents don't worry
about being that parent no no that's the only
way to get things done And actually, part of
the role of the SEN parent, you find you don't
choose this role, but you kind of find yourself
in this never -ending fight, basically. And unfortunately,
that does come with the role. And lots of you
do it incredibly well. Unfortunately, it shouldn't
be the case, but it is. yeah it's always a fight
isn't it for parents and it's yeah it breaks
your heart you know that the system's broken
at the moment but yeah I always think you know
if I've got a parent who I know of who's you
know managed to win this support and get this
access to this and that and my response was good
for them yeah yeah absolutely good for them yeah
and can I email them to find out how everyone
else yeah I've done it before actually if I hear
a parent that's you know written this letter
whatever and got funding or got this open the
doors for something that they couldn't or whatever
i say can i see your your email thread can you
forward it to me because and do you mind if i
share it with other parents that are in a similar
situation to you and very rarely will they say
no because they know exactly where they're at
i did it with my year sevens and that didn't
have the school place the child before in our
car and our school didn't have a year seven place
and they his parents sent me everything there
was legal statements there was the people cc'd
into it all need to you know it just makes it
so much easier easier doesn't it if we're all
kind of helping each other out in that way yeah
but you're right it's a shame that we have to
do it in the first place um okay i think this
might be our last one um maybe you pick one and
i pick one yeah i've got one to finish up yeah
okay okay um what advice do you have for when
a child starts to recognize their differences
to their peers are self -conscious of it they
don't want differentiated work or they don't
want to wear ear defenders or they don't want
a fidget i personally use my supporting adults
so not not to mock or mimic but genuinely my
supporting adults in my class um are neurodivergent
so i've got some adults that like fidgets i've
got some adults that need weighted blankets i've
got some adults that find noise overwhelming
so we model the strategies that we would want
our children to use ear defenders weighted blankets
fidget tools taking a break and saying it but
saying it verbally refusing consent when i ask
them if they want to have a turn in attention
autism if they don't want a turn they say no
thank you and stay in their seat I think utilising
those supporting adults as models to genuinely
meet their needs. I mean, fake it too, I suppose,
but actually it's even more powerful if they
genuinely have those needs and avoiding the whys
and what they're doing. then the children, it
might embed a culture of this is actually perfectly
okay. Yeah, and building the self -esteem of
that child as well, isn't it? I was about to
say, yeah, role modelling completely and knowing
that it's okay and it's, you know, and it's so
hard to, it's easy for me to say, you know, to
boost their self -esteem and to know that it's
okay to be different because, you know, peer
pressure, you know, growing up as a young person
in day and age. It's hard enough in this world
anyway, let alone when you're aware. I often
say to people that, um um i know non -speaking
level three autism is a challenge it comes with
lots of its challenges but my heart always breaks
for those that are different enough but aware
and aware of it but be aware that they're different
and what they're missing out on is heartbreaking
and also they're so vulnerable because like the
children in my class will always have carers
they'll always have advocates they'll always
have people fighting their corner and they'll
always be so loved and almost in a safe little
bubble of love actually alongside all of the
other things they've got you know and got to
deal with actually they're always in this safe
bubble of love often i'm attached to a mainstream
school and i see learners with the same diagnosis
masking Having to cope, being treated as behaviour,
struggling to make friends, struggling to meet
their needs, struggling to communicate. And my
heart breaks for them. And I think it's what's
also important. It's not, you know, what advice
do you have for the child? It's for, you know,
they are who they are and that is OK. Right.
But everyone else, it's time for you to learn
empathy and understanding about people around
you and how everyone is different. And that is
OK. So it's not just about the child fitting
in. It's no, no, you fit around everyone else.
I've always said, I mean, I did work, my previous
job was an ASD manager for a mainstream, an autism,
alongside a mainstream. And I'll be honest with
you, I was there for two and a half years. I
set it up and it was a massive challenge. I was
literally late 20s and it was a big role to go
to, to be a role. But what I found the most challenging
was exactly what you just said. I found it heartbreaking
that, you know, teenagers, 13 year olds coming
to me going, I know I'm different. and I don't
and it yeah I used to come home and just be in
tears because I just don't know how to help and
I found that the most mental health is the biggest
risk for an autism diagnosis but it was But my
viewpoint was always, right, assemblies, tutor
time, every single day for these others, for
the other students in class, you learn kindness,
empathy, compassion. And it's shown, they will
follow the adult's lead. Yes, and it did work.
Every day, an activity, learning that empathy,
compassion for other people and the understanding
when you saw... Because if they're seeing, if
the students are seeing a child getting told
off or whatever, for using their fidget or for
making noises, not giving eye contact, all of
those things that we probably hear all the time,
they're going to learn that that's not normal.
That's bad behavior. These children are put on
red and all of those things. It breeds a culture
of you must mask your needs, doesn't it? Whereas
actually, if the teacher at the front is supporting...
um assistants are supportive of it encouraging
of it understanding of it it just breeds a culture
that that it's okay for everybody to meet their
needs because let's face it even if you're not
haven't got sensory regulation needs if you've
had some really bad news in the morning or you've
had a really bad weekend or there's a you know
safeguarding concern or whatever you might need
a fidget that day you might need more breaks
that day and it's almost like reading the culture
of like we all go have these times where we go
through something we need something extra and
we need to yeah be empathetic of all those times
but in the workplace too with with staff to staff
no children involved it needs to be it needs
to be just part of the culture of the school
i think definitely that's it for this week's
episode i hope you enjoyed taking a look back
at some of my favorite moments from series one
if you would like to be on my podcast for series
two then please get in touch you can email me
at our sensory kids at gmail .com or just send
me a dm on social media and i'd love to have
you on see you next time