WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.139 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:09.099 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.099 --> 00:00:11.640 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:15.279 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:17.620 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.600 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.980 So these episodes are going to be a little bit 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:28.980 different over August. We are going to re -look 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:32.119 at my favourite moments from the podcast from 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:35.640 Series 1. We've had such amazing conversations 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.939 this year. And thank you so much to everybody 00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:40.679 who has been on the podcast. You've been incredible. 00:00:40.939 --> 00:00:43.119 And thank you so much for all the listeners for 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.719 your support so that we can continue this for 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.000 Series 2 from September. I hope you enjoy taking 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:52.539 a look back at, yeah, my favourite moments. He 00:00:52.539 --> 00:00:56.560 doesn't hate me. He hates the situation. But... 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.560 i know that he actually in the end feels secure 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.259 in these boundaries and and this is an agreement 00:01:03.259 --> 00:01:06.640 together and and we'll go ahead so i suppose 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:09.780 the the first thing is to know what the do's 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:12.000 and don'ts are because they can't be reactive 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.079 you can't be seeing and deciding the moment that's 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.700 not fair it's not fair on you or your partner 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:21.439 who's whether it's a colleague or or you know 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:24.219 your partner with your child managing that because 00:01:24.219 --> 00:01:26.879 you're making up on the fly and the states are 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:28.140 going to happen aren't they and you're going 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:31.599 and then that's in the system exactly so the 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.680 idea is that you pick a calm moment away from 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.989 anything going on where you can sit down and 00:01:38.989 --> 00:01:41.349 i love that the children are involved as well 00:01:41.349 --> 00:01:43.450 if they're able to be i think that's fantastic 00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:47.909 and you can make it visual as well you know the 00:01:47.909 --> 00:01:50.870 younger children when we work with our tbbs families 00:01:50.870 --> 00:01:54.430 we we have pictures that they put in and we do 00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:57.170 images and i think you know or even even older 00:01:57.170 --> 00:01:59.230 children that find communication a struggle anything 00:01:59.230 --> 00:02:02.030 that is a visual representation a bit like the 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:04.709 mood board yeah you know like the goal setting 00:02:05.530 --> 00:02:07.849 Because it's the same thing. This is the family 00:02:07.849 --> 00:02:09.430 goal. This is what we're aiming at. We're not 00:02:09.430 --> 00:02:10.990 going to be perfect all the time, but this is 00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:14.050 what we're aiming at. Learners, like anyone could 00:02:14.050 --> 00:02:15.810 come into my class and say, well, there's no 00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:17.770 point in them being involved because they wouldn't 00:02:17.770 --> 00:02:20.849 understand it. But let's just assume competence. 00:02:21.229 --> 00:02:25.770 Like there is nothing wrong with them sitting 00:02:25.770 --> 00:02:28.289 around the table too. And who knows? Like who 00:02:28.289 --> 00:02:29.830 are we to say that they're not actually taking 00:02:29.830 --> 00:02:32.830 everything in? They just can't communicate it 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:38.419 back. people do i think we forget the understanding 00:02:38.419 --> 00:02:43.099 um and being able to communicate outwards are 00:02:43.099 --> 00:02:45.960 so different in skills you know the amount of 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.919 parents with toddlers that all of a sudden toddlers 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:50.919 start speaking they're like oh my goodness didn't 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:52.939 know they knew all this and you think yes but 00:02:52.939 --> 00:02:55.659 they they had that skill and now they have this 00:02:55.659 --> 00:02:57.639 skill so they can tell you what they know and 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:00.219 what they've been taking it's such a so this 00:03:00.219 --> 00:03:03.060 is what i found with my experience exactly this 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:04.939 is one of my students that have recently got 00:03:04.939 --> 00:03:08.500 a aac tablet it's all of a sudden and you're 00:03:08.500 --> 00:03:12.039 like well you do know and you know what now we're 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.000 looking at every student differently because 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.419 we're like you all know you just can't like you've 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:19.840 got all that receptive language or you hear it 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.080 you'll see a little smirk like as you're talking 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:25.240 or whatever and you're like you know you yeah 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:29.180 but you know what even if they don't even if 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:31.099 they don't because disability is a thing and 00:03:31.099 --> 00:03:33.680 lots of summer children like aren't aware and 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.400 that's that's perfectly beautiful and perfectly 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.180 yeah um able to be part of that conversation 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:42.860 too like that's okay so sitting down together 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:46.439 deciding right when they do this what do we do 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:48.659 you know so we had a conversation for example 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:51.699 right right nobody stands on the furniture and 00:03:51.699 --> 00:03:54.879 i'm like Well, actually, like, sometimes it's 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.080 okay to stand on furniture. When is it okay? 00:03:57.139 --> 00:03:59.919 So, okay, right. If it's higher than your hip 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:03.039 and it's unstable, we don't stand it. Great. 00:04:03.259 --> 00:04:04.960 So if it's lower than your hip and it's stable, 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:07.919 then we can stand it. That's a really clear boundary. 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.280 It works because I work with age 4 to 11 in my 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:12.639 class. So we couldn't say a metre tall because, 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:16.110 you know, if it's taller than their hip. and 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:18.329 it's unstable they can't stand on it and then 00:04:18.329 --> 00:04:20.949 that's so clear it's so consistent because as 00:04:20.949 --> 00:04:23.750 the child grows the boundary grows with them 00:04:23.750 --> 00:04:26.149 you know and it makes so much sense isn't so 00:04:26.149 --> 00:04:28.949 having really smart targets for yourself you 00:04:28.949 --> 00:04:31.490 know think about every eventuality yes of course 00:04:31.490 --> 00:04:33.170 we don't want them walking around with food but 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:36.529 what if it's a this day that day whatever you 00:04:36.529 --> 00:04:38.670 know is it every day that we don't want them 00:04:38.670 --> 00:04:41.110 or is it actually just at lunchtime or is it 00:04:41.110 --> 00:04:44.019 just at you know so just keeping it really consistent 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:46.459 trying to think of every eventuality right and 00:04:46.459 --> 00:04:51.680 flexible yeah which is no it's true for one it's 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:55.300 true but that's life and flexible and we have 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:58.259 to we talk a lot about flexible seating you know 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:02.220 flexible routines and flexible expectations are 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:05.540 so important and appropriate expectations you 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:09.459 know there is no blanket yeah we decided this 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:14.399 didn't we but actually because at the theme park 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.060 we do walk around and eat our uh candy floss 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:21.319 or whatever so actually you're right in this 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:23.620 situation this is okay is that all right with 00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:26.939 you yeah okay cool let's go isn't it i call it 00:05:26.939 --> 00:05:30.610 consistent compassion so it's just so it's Thinking 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:33.310 in the moment, actually, are we sticking for 00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:35.110 the boundaries just for the rigidity and the 00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:37.430 control? The control. Like we were talking about 00:05:37.430 --> 00:05:39.730 before. Yeah. We're being compassionate in this 00:05:39.730 --> 00:05:42.410 moment. And often, yeah, it looks like pillars 00:05:42.410 --> 00:05:46.110 of rigid, doesn't it? Actually, children and 00:05:46.110 --> 00:05:50.490 humans go in and out of the pillars. But it still 00:05:50.490 --> 00:05:53.269 holds them. It's still the baseline. It's still 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:56.449 quite comforting in that. but yeah sometimes 00:05:56.449 --> 00:05:59.709 life happens and actually they can stay up later 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.889 because it's a this day or yeah we don't have 00:06:02.889 --> 00:06:05.490 to have a bath on this wednesday because it's 00:06:05.490 --> 00:06:07.629 this and and that is life and that also teaches 00:06:07.629 --> 00:06:12.589 children not to be afraid of change as well safe 00:06:12.589 --> 00:06:15.129 practice for children you know you were talking 00:06:15.129 --> 00:06:17.250 earlier about children that might not be aware 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:20.029 of things but we build awareness that's how it 00:06:20.029 --> 00:06:23.389 works we build awareness and we we kind of heighten 00:06:23.389 --> 00:06:27.589 awareness so children get to experience something 00:06:27.589 --> 00:06:30.129 over and over again they get to learn within 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.269 that safe boundary and practice it and we talk 00:06:33.269 --> 00:06:35.329 a lot about this when it comes to behavior and 00:06:35.329 --> 00:06:38.110 expectations and routines and things what we 00:06:38.110 --> 00:06:40.370 practice we make progress in and if we are not 00:06:40.370 --> 00:06:43.339 getting the opportunity to practice the skills 00:06:43.339 --> 00:06:50.060 within behaviour and practice. At the moment, 00:06:50.139 --> 00:06:52.819 I am actually in a special education setting 00:06:52.819 --> 00:06:56.259 that's alone. attached to a mainstream school 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:59.579 so I'm seeing every day these mainstream children 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:01.420 with some of them with higher needs than the 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:04.980 children in my class and how that's managed you 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:07.160 know sometimes it's they're really well supported 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:08.980 sometimes they have really great support staff 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.180 who are really highly trained and teachers who 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.959 completely give them a sense of belonging and 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.639 inclusion in their classes and I'm also seeing 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:18.439 the other side of things as I'm seeing children 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:20.620 that are in the corridors I'm seeing TAs without 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.300 plans but having to think off the cuff having 00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:26.360 to deal with really tricky situations and children 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.600 who's ultimately educational but also mental 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.680 health needs just not being met so i can see 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.620 firsthand the need for this conversation i think 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:38.540 it's so important to have because like yourself 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:41.040 i worked for specialist provision for six years 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.980 absolutely lovely but before then i was in mainstream 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.600 and I did my degree in sexual education and then 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:49.980 I went into mainstream and then I eventually 00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:52.439 went into the politic provision and the need 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:55.819 for inclusion is so important but it's just not 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:58.819 happening in the way we would like it to we have 00:07:58.819 --> 00:08:02.420 these amazing centers for children with autism 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:05.199 with almost like high support needs and I think 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:07.379 they do really well like you say it's just absolute 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:10.000 everyday practice this is how we do it we use 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.920 our visuals we use all those sensory breaks just 00:08:13.339 --> 00:08:16.199 secondhand nature but then in a mainstream setting 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.649 it's high masking it's children fall through 00:08:19.649 --> 00:08:23.009 the gaps because we have a big thing is assessments 00:08:23.009 --> 00:08:25.529 it's grades or they're actually doing really 00:08:25.529 --> 00:08:28.529 well educationally so let's not put a plan in 00:08:28.529 --> 00:08:31.009 place not focus on those other needs because 00:08:31.009 --> 00:08:33.169 they're ticking a box of the grades yeah because 00:08:33.169 --> 00:08:36.769 sometimes these children are very high achievers 00:08:36.769 --> 00:08:40.889 actually they're your million word readers in 00:08:40.889 --> 00:08:45.279 my school they're your top oh my goodness they're 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:47.539 already ready for year six SATs in eight years 00:08:47.539 --> 00:08:50.740 old children but it doesn't mean that their needs 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:52.960 and their sensory needs and communication needs 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.840 and social needs aren't just as prevalent as 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:57.860 the children in my class that are working at 00:08:57.860 --> 00:09:00.279 a very different level academically exactly that 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.080 and I think it looks different and people are 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.700 like you know if we go to that that old language 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:08.139 of you know, air functioning. Like, what does 00:09:08.139 --> 00:09:09.919 that even look like? It's actually not like that. 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.879 It's a spectrum. It's, they're still experiencing 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:14.960 the sensory needs and everything, but different. 00:09:15.019 --> 00:09:17.259 It looks different for them. And because they 00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:20.460 are academic in that way, how we see academia, 00:09:21.419 --> 00:09:24.059 it's... but at what cost they're wearing that 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:26.440 mask at the end of the day they're fine in school 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.620 i quote but actually at the end of the day they're 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:31.120 coming home they're burning out and have a bigger 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.600 four o 'clock explosion because yeah it's like 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.360 wow i couldn't actually i couldn't move i i'm 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.740 trying to socially interact in the way that it's 00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:44.779 meant for me. A lot of young people with autism 00:09:44.779 --> 00:09:47.899 will be very highly empathetic as well, which 00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:50.980 is another misconception. So they can be really 00:09:50.980 --> 00:09:52.940 highly empathetic and all day they're thinking, 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.879 I did that wrong, I did this. And when you have 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:59.159 mixed needs as well, someone with ADHD as well 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:02.480 as that, it's just constantly exhausting and 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.700 it's almost, in a mainstream setting, it's like, 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.629 oh, well, are they choosing that behaviour? well 00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:10.309 actually no they they're talking to you behavior 00:10:10.309 --> 00:10:13.110 is communication and the biggest communication 00:10:13.110 --> 00:10:15.909 and i think then we end up with kids in the corridor 00:10:15.909 --> 00:10:20.029 rather than okay what can we do who is it a problem 00:10:20.029 --> 00:10:23.070 for if they're sitting there you know with with 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:25.250 a visual timetable with something that meets 00:10:25.250 --> 00:10:28.639 them where they're at When we're talking about 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.620 the kids in the corridor, we're talking about 00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:33.799 literally kids that are educated in cupboards, 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.500 under stairs, in miscellaneous rooms, in outside 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:39.919 the head teacher's office, in corridors. They 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.100 are taught in corridors and sometimes it is because 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:46.240 they are not coping in the classroom. But I still 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.220 feel like children need to be taught in an education 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:53.120 setting. So yes, OK, the lights might be too 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:54.639 bright. It might be too loud. It might be too 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.740 busy in the classroom. OK, fine. Then it needs 00:10:57.740 --> 00:10:59.639 to be in the child's best interest to be educated 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:03.159 elsewhere. It shouldn't be for because they are 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:05.820 disrupting the rest of the class. It shouldn't 00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:10.139 be because for the benefit of the 30 other children 00:11:10.139 --> 00:11:12.019 that this child can't be in the class. It needs 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:14.019 to be a benefit for that individual. beneficial 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:15.940 for that individual child to make that decision 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:19.159 ultimately also movement breaks and visuals support 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:22.419 all children absolutely because it can't just 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:24.820 because we're creating it for this one child 00:11:24.820 --> 00:11:27.759 to help support them to you know have them as 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.610 part of belonging as part of this classroom And 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:33.090 if that's what's needed, then, you know, dimmer 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:36.309 lights, visuals, movement breaks, if that's what's 00:11:36.309 --> 00:11:39.090 needed, then that doesn't hinder any other child 00:11:39.090 --> 00:11:41.370 from learning. It absolutely doesn't. And, you 00:11:41.370 --> 00:11:43.529 know, so often in mainstream I've heard, and 00:11:43.529 --> 00:11:45.269 unfortunately in other settings as well, like 00:11:45.269 --> 00:11:46.809 they've got like a fiddle toy or something like 00:11:46.809 --> 00:11:48.710 that, it's distracting for the other children. 00:11:48.789 --> 00:11:51.230 And actually, you know what, kids and teenagers 00:11:51.230 --> 00:11:53.370 are actually full of empathy. If you can actually 00:11:53.370 --> 00:11:55.649 explain, well, actually, and eventually teach 00:11:55.649 --> 00:11:57.370 them to advocate for themselves, I need this 00:11:57.370 --> 00:12:00.690 to focus. or this helps me feel calm. If we give 00:12:00.690 --> 00:12:03.149 children and young people those skills to advocate 00:12:03.149 --> 00:12:06.409 for themselves, more often than not, their children 00:12:06.409 --> 00:12:10.350 will go, OK. Exactly. So accepting. So accepting. 00:12:10.590 --> 00:12:13.289 And also, I think if they're so easily distracted 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:16.090 from their work tasks, from a silent fidget toy, 00:12:16.269 --> 00:12:18.330 then your lesson just isn't that interesting. 00:12:18.730 --> 00:12:21.129 Or maybe they need one as well. If a flower doesn't 00:12:21.129 --> 00:12:23.169 bloom, you don't change the flower. You change 00:12:23.169 --> 00:12:25.350 the environment it's in to help them bloom. And 00:12:25.350 --> 00:12:27.659 that is exactly what we're talking about. hear 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.539 if the child isn't coping in the classroom if 00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:33.059 they're distracting if they're disruptive all 00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:35.279 these kind of words that we're hearing we don't 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.659 change the child we don't You know, we change 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:39.500 the environment. Now, sometimes that does look 00:12:39.500 --> 00:12:41.759 like moving them out into a different class. 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:44.200 Sometimes. Sometimes it looks like maybe using 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.659 a quiet area. But also sometimes that just looks 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:49.179 like offering movement breaks, visuals, schedules 00:12:49.179 --> 00:12:51.899 and dimming the lights, offering fidget toys. 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.399 Encourage, you know, change that environment 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.379 in order to better suit their needs. And another 00:12:57.379 --> 00:13:00.159 quote that comes to mind is also so -called mild 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:04.100 autism doesn't mean one experiences autism mildly. 00:13:04.179 --> 00:13:07.500 It means you experience it. autism mildly you 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:10.059 have no idea how hard they have had to work to 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:12.360 get to where they are and I think that's what 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:14.120 we're talking about isn't it teachers if you 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.779 are seeing mild autism you have no idea what's 00:13:17.779 --> 00:13:20.159 going on under the surface for this young person 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.039 who knows maybe my children in my class are low 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.960 maskers because they are less aware or less caring 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.799 of what other people think around them they stim 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.200 freely they communicate through their body and 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.980 through behaviors because they don't have that 00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:38.480 maybe awareness or care of what other people 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:41.019 think around them. But the children in mainstream 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:44.100 schools, maybe they do care. Maybe they are aware. 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.279 Maybe they have been told that they're different. 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.820 Maybe they, you know, have some kind of trauma 00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:53.039 in the past of having to, you know, keep it down. 00:13:53.529 --> 00:13:56.289 keep their stims down because it's seen as behavior 00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:59.110 but that doesn't mean their need isn't just as 00:13:59.110 --> 00:14:00.929 high as the children that you see flapping and 00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:03.769 rocking and squealing in my class and that's 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:06.230 they need their needs that need meeting it's 00:14:06.230 --> 00:14:08.929 not a choice yeah this is it it just looks different 00:14:08.929 --> 00:14:10.889 and that's it like so many people i think to 00:14:10.889 --> 00:14:13.149 adults included they're like oh i've never really 00:14:13.149 --> 00:14:16.529 um thought that i stim and i'll look at i'll 00:14:16.529 --> 00:14:18.210 look at their hands and their nails and they're 00:14:18.210 --> 00:14:20.830 they're being picked and they'll go well i do 00:14:20.830 --> 00:14:23.000 this with my foot and i'm like yeah that That's 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.840 how you stim. But then you also, on the backhand 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.539 of that, my absolute bugbear is always, everyone's 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:31.840 a little bit autistic. No, they're not. They're 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.179 not. You are autistic or you're not. It may be 00:14:35.179 --> 00:14:37.340 that you've got high or low support needs, but, 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:41.429 you know, it's actually... a neurological condition 00:14:41.429 --> 00:14:43.649 so you either are or you're not we might have 00:14:43.649 --> 00:14:47.370 little tendencies so to speak it's like you know 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:49.769 I have a craving for chocolate it doesn't mean 00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:51.870 I'm pregnant I just have that tendency right 00:14:51.870 --> 00:14:55.110 now and I think and this is all well -meaning 00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:56.830 of the community because people are starting 00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:58.850 to learn about it all these well -meaning things 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:01.929 but it's like well actually no that really yeah 00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:05.559 because ultimately human Autistic traits are 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.120 human traits. It is a human trait to have interest. 00:15:09.259 --> 00:15:11.779 It's a human trait to feel anxious sometimes. 00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:16.399 It's a human trait to feel safest in your own 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:21.360 environment. It is a human trait to feel a little 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.279 bit uncomfortable with transitions and change. 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.600 Those are kind of butterfly feelings. They're 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.539 all normal human experiences. So I think people 00:15:28.539 --> 00:15:30.220 hear these things and think, well, I feel like 00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:32.580 that. Maybe everyone's a little bit autistic. 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:34.100 I think that's where that comes from, isn't it? 00:15:34.330 --> 00:15:38.289 But it's the impact of those feelings that makes 00:15:38.289 --> 00:15:41.870 it autism, as well as sensory. It's having all 00:15:41.870 --> 00:15:46.090 of it. at varying levels and changing throughout 00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:49.409 the day but it is it's having that impact on 00:15:49.409 --> 00:15:53.029 your life it is magnified to the point where 00:15:53.029 --> 00:15:56.870 it becomes debilitating not for everything not 00:15:56.870 --> 00:15:58.769 for everyone it looks different in everyone but 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:00.929 that's what makes it autism that's what makes 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:05.360 it diagnosable so yes you might share similarities 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.600 you might share traits if you will for a better 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.620 word but that doesn't necessarily mean it's autism 00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:13.899 but also as we're talking about it maybe it is 00:16:13.899 --> 00:16:16.820 autism maybe you're saying everyone's a little 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:18.720 bit autistic because you're recognizing those 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.259 high traits in yourself and you never even thought 00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:24.279 that you could be because it looks really different 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.379 in lots of people lots of women are only realizing 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:29.279 that they're autistic because their children 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.179 are being diagnosed with high support needs and 00:16:32.179 --> 00:16:34.299 then they never even knew that you know they 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.120 are autistic with low support needs all their 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:42.340 life imagine you're seeing a child for the first 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.879 time how do you establish that initial connection 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.960 what kind of things are you doing saying thinking 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.720 about in order to start that positively yeah 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:57.299 The really first thing that might be a little 00:16:57.299 --> 00:17:00.940 bit surprising is that I don't say anything at 00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:04.220 first, at least the first 10 to 15 minutes of 00:17:04.220 --> 00:17:07.079 interaction with a child, because I just want 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:10.039 to see who they are, what they are interested 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:14.039 in. you know, are they interested in me or not 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.859 really? So really kind of realizing that silence 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:21.519 is okay at first and there is no pressure really 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.559 to talk or really to communicate with me at first. 00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:28.299 And it might look a little bit weird. It's like, 00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:30.079 you know, we're expecting the speech therapist 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.559 to come in and really get started. And I'm there 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.420 just like joining in their play very gently or 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:39.220 just being on the periphery. And I found that 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:42.339 oftentimes it works the best. when I'm this person 00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:46.019 who doesn't come in with an agenda a person who 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.579 comes in with genuine interest in whatever they're 00:17:48.579 --> 00:17:52.539 doing already and not trying to take their attention 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:57.759 away from that thing and I find this first step 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:02.140 is the best one and it really helps me to start 00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:04.460 creating that connection it's not the sole thing 00:18:04.460 --> 00:18:07.519 that makes us feel connected but it's kind of 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.740 like opening the door a little bit and not kicking 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:14.660 them out yeah and scaring them off with demands 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:19.140 that maybe they can't achieve maybe exactly yeah 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:22.920 and I find that so important and I learned that 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.779 through a couple of years of practicing because 00:18:25.779 --> 00:18:28.920 at first I was really excited and really the 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.180 speech therapist who came in like what are you 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:35.279 doing and wow can I do that as well but soon 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.119 i realized that's actually scaring the children 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.940 my enthusiasm so i learned over the years that 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:45.119 actually silence is best at first so that the 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.359 child feels that they are safe this person this 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.339 stranger really realizing about myself that actually 00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:53.779 i'm a stranger to them at first and becoming 00:18:53.779 --> 00:18:57.839 that safe adult in the space that over time they 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.099 will start trusting because they will realize 00:19:00.099 --> 00:19:02.599 like you said before that um all of the things 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.140 that i'm doing are consistent and are not really 00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:08.440 threatening their inner emotional safety so that's 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:10.440 kind of the first thing that I really think about 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.980 and really kind of accepting their presence and 00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:15.599 their interest and following that and I find 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.640 that they teach me so much more than I would 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.279 ever teach them through that strategy. I loved 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:22.779 it when you said genuine interest and I think 00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:27.359 it's really easy to seem interested in it a car 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.910 rolling or the wheel turning you know but to 00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:33.750 have genuine interest in it and see what it's 00:19:33.750 --> 00:19:36.799 a joy that they are getting out of that makes 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.660 such a difference they can feel it you can feel 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:43.259 it that is what connection is isn't it it's not 00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:46.700 falsehood it's genuine interest in it whether 00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:49.079 it's interested in ocean animals or interested 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.119 in spinning or interested in i've got a child 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.240 in my class that's fingers and we're really interested 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.180 what is it is it the fingers moving is it you 00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:58.859 know the physicality of it is it that they're 00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:00.880 seeing colors through the fingers is it counting 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.039 is it songs in his head really interested so 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:07.710 that we can also be genuinely interested in drawing 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:10.829 his joy in that I feel like being genuine is 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:13.769 the biggest part of being affirming and building 00:20:13.769 --> 00:20:17.049 that connection isn't it I agree and I love how 00:20:17.049 --> 00:20:20.390 you said that it's all that goes in my mind exactly 00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:24.670 that like why why is it interesting and can I 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:27.769 be interested in that in a genuine way and really 00:20:27.769 --> 00:20:30.009 investigating a little bit being a little detective 00:20:30.009 --> 00:20:33.250 as well in the background whilst being silent 00:20:33.250 --> 00:20:36.789 and observing Yeah, so physically you are silent 00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:40.599 and probably quite still initially. um to not 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:42.980 scare them off but your head's probably working 00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:47.299 tenfold trying to work it all out it's so true 00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:50.460 and i love how you mentioned that you know staying 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:53.500 a bit still because i don't try to move my body 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:56.160 too abruptly in the beginning just to see what 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.519 their sensory regulation is like and really not 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:02.039 to scare them off as well but also not to trigger 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.359 any past traumas or anything like that and i 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.640 think that's also a big part of making them feel 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.730 safe because a lot of the time for children we 00:21:10.730 --> 00:21:13.529 are these big humans with big bodies and they 00:21:13.529 --> 00:21:16.789 are so tiny and it can be it can feel so con 00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:19.490 like i'm condescending almost that we are so 00:21:19.490 --> 00:21:22.109 big and so above them so really sitting down 00:21:22.109 --> 00:21:26.289 on the floor a bit further away from them being 00:21:26.289 --> 00:21:30.029 at eye level or below never above so those are 00:21:30.029 --> 00:21:33.009 the little things that over time i kind of gotten 00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:36.779 used to doing but I don't realize that they are 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:39.759 little steps towards the connection. They made 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:41.579 me realize right now. I think that's helpful 00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.900 for people to hear though. We've got mainstream 00:21:43.900 --> 00:21:46.579 teachers, new teachers, parents, siblings listening 00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:48.720 to this podcast. I think this is the advice that... 00:21:49.049 --> 00:21:51.450 people really need to hear is those yeah things 00:21:51.450 --> 00:21:53.230 that maybe you do naturally that you've learned 00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:56.490 over years to make yourself small to be quite 00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:59.890 submissive in a way so that they can lead and 00:21:59.890 --> 00:22:02.289 and feel in control of the interaction i think 00:22:02.289 --> 00:22:05.410 is fantastic advice because we could have the 00:22:05.410 --> 00:22:08.369 best resources the best toys the best you know 00:22:08.369 --> 00:22:11.569 all of these strategies but if they're feeling 00:22:11.569 --> 00:22:14.289 out of control or scared and not safe as you 00:22:14.289 --> 00:22:17.509 said nothing's gonna sit right it's not gonna 00:22:17.509 --> 00:22:19.930 feel new affirming is it even if you're saying 00:22:19.930 --> 00:22:21.970 the right things and using the right strategies 00:22:21.970 --> 00:22:24.589 if you're towering over them or even if you've 00:22:24.589 --> 00:22:26.630 got your arms crossed or you know you're very 00:22:26.630 --> 00:22:29.549 you're very aware physically actually I feel 00:22:29.549 --> 00:22:31.930 when you're in these and especially the initial 00:22:31.930 --> 00:22:34.170 stages but actually in all interactions I feel 00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.910 very physically aware I used to be a dancer And 00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:40.369 I do wonder if that helps, actually. I've just 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:42.509 realised that now. Because you're extra aware 00:22:42.509 --> 00:22:45.009 of where your body is in space and what your 00:22:45.009 --> 00:22:47.089 hands are doing and what your posture is. And 00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:49.329 I feel like it's almost like a dance, isn't it? 00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:51.150 Especially if we're talking about that initial 00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:53.069 interaction, that kind of intensive interaction 00:22:53.069 --> 00:22:55.769 way. It kind of is a to and fro conversation 00:22:55.769 --> 00:22:58.069 physically, isn't it? And if we're wanting them 00:22:58.069 --> 00:23:00.269 to feel in control and safe, well, then we need 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:04.490 to be the smaller, quieter, stiller ones following 00:23:04.490 --> 00:23:08.720 their lead, don't we? Yeah, absolutely. And oftentimes 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.140 I feel like when I'm like very still and calm 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:15.500 person in their presence, they start to be curious 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:18.200 and they start to like looking into my direction, 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:21.819 be like, who's this person? Why aren't they there? 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.640 And there we go. That's communication. And it 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.740 just opens up without me doing anything. So it's 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:32.059 just so magical to be a calm person and like 00:23:32.059 --> 00:23:36.079 near a small child. You might be the first adult 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.940 that they've ever had enter their space and not 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:43.119 put a demand on them ever. That's going to set 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.819 you up for intrigue at minimum, isn't it? It's 00:23:46.819 --> 00:23:50.839 definitely going to help. It's not going to hinder 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.039 that connection building process. Do you often 00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:56.539 have other adults in the room with you, like 00:23:56.539 --> 00:23:59.980 other teachers or parents? yeah i was just about 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:02.880 to say that i'm almost never alone with a child 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.880 so there is always this in the back of my mind 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:10.400 it's not just about what i do where i'm at in 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.680 the room but it's a lot about the environment 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.400 as well and how safe is the environment in terms 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.859 of sensory stimuli in terms of you know are we 00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:24.920 all emotionally regulated in the space are there 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.160 other children there and are they emotionally 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.500 regulated what are their sensory needs it's a 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:34.200 huge dynamic process of trying to figure it all 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.319 out try and manage that or are you just managing 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.960 yourself Do you try and move things out the way? 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:41.619 Do you try and turn off the lights? Do you try 00:24:41.619 --> 00:24:45.119 and hush adults down? How actively are you managing 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.140 everybody else in the space? I know you're not 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:48.920 trying to control the child you're working with, 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.579 but is there some scope to control everything 00:24:52.579 --> 00:24:55.440 else? Or are you just focusing on yourself and 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.420 you just being the safe space? I think it depends 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:02.299 on the type of team that I'm working with, but 00:25:02.299 --> 00:25:04.799 most of the time, yes, there are discussions 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.160 around what does an environment that's communication 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.299 friendly look like and what can we do to make 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:15.579 it a safe space at all times, not just when, 00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:19.299 you know, I try to create a new connection with 00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:21.900 a child. So definitely there is a lot of conversations 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:24.400 happening. I wouldn't say that they are happening 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.920 at the moment when I'm doing a session with a 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:29.680 child, but they are happening before and after, 00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:33.019 whether that's through informal chats or through 00:25:33.019 --> 00:25:36.259 training or through some modeling and coaching. 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.319 There's always the ongoing discussion about how 00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.720 an environment that's affirming looks like. And 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.279 through those discussions that are ongoing, it 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.259 then makes whatever session. sessions start in 00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:52.180 the classroom much easier and more more easier 00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:54.740 really to be to be said yeah I suppose because 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:57.079 you all have the same expectation don't you they 00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.819 might be panicking but nothing's happening maybe 00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:01.900 and actually you're quite happy so I suppose 00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:04.859 to come in with all the same expectation is helpful 00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:07.460 for everyone to know what success looks like 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:13.039 is helpful exactly Now we've come over this social 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.299 barrier that actually these loops are now a cool 00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:17.700 thing to wear. A lot of people that do come out, 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.720 a lot of people that do come out of primary school 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:21.759 when you'd use their fidget toys and they'd have 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:24.359 their elastic bands and things that they became 00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:26.160 confident using actually is really beneficial 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.980 to them. They stop using them. They just stop 00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:32.940 using them. Just that, no, it's, they won't use, 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.319 and obviously Senko's will chat to them and say, 00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:37.579 you know, you used to really benefit from this. 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:39.259 It'd be great. And they're like, absolutely not 00:26:39.259 --> 00:26:42.759 this. No, not using it. Do you find they do other 00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:46.160 things, though, like chew their sleeves or fiddle 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.720 with pens, chew pens? What kind of things are 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.880 you seeing that tells you this young person needs 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:56.480 these tools? There's little tells like that, 00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.460 like the chewing of the sleeve is one or picking 00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:02.319 up their nails is one. But actually in the teenage 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.640 years, it's more acting out because it builds 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.509 up. Yeah, it builds up because they're not having 00:27:07.509 --> 00:27:09.910 that release during the day. It builds up and 00:27:09.910 --> 00:27:12.529 then it comes out as behavior, which is obviously 00:27:12.529 --> 00:27:14.930 can lead to things like removing from the classroom 00:27:14.930 --> 00:27:16.910 and then they're affecting their learning. And 00:27:16.910 --> 00:27:20.029 that's actually the start of the spiral. So it's 00:27:20.029 --> 00:27:22.049 really hard, as I was saying, to have those conversations 00:27:22.049 --> 00:27:23.970 with the kids when they're at that stage where 00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:25.970 the most important thing to them is how they 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:29.759 look in school. what their peers and their friends 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:31.440 think about them that's the most important thing 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.680 to a teenager at that point it's so hard for 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.420 senkos because you just want to say to them let's 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:41.900 do it it's gonna help me used to do it or i know 00:27:41.900 --> 00:27:43.880 that i know this isn't the coolest thing but 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:46.440 you know it's and that is probably the biggest 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.380 challenge of working with teenagers so with the 00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:51.839 loops now they're cool we don't have any problems 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:57.380 but interesting how it's these society norms 00:27:57.380 --> 00:28:00.799 that we if I could if I could just click my fingers 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.660 and think right I could just make fidget toys 00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:07.720 cool I would because it would solve so many so 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.319 many challenges that we have but also help the 00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:12.759 kids so much because they're so worried about 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:14.920 what they look like as teenagers yeah so I suppose 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.920 the difference with loops was that it was seen 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.940 as cool because they might have seen influencers 00:28:21.940 --> 00:28:23.960 or celebrities wearing them they're expensive 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:27.240 they're a high class like high desired item um 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.380 they're seen as being fashionable just like certain 00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:31.660 trainers are just like certain brands and designs 00:28:31.660 --> 00:28:34.700 are so maybe the sensory toy business is missing 00:28:34.700 --> 00:28:37.619 a trick here we need to be like getting the celebrities 00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:41.700 um to be wearing big ear defenders and like wearing 00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:44.460 using some fidget toys and then maybe yeah if 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:46.440 they're on tiktok the kids will wear them buy 00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.900 them it's so funny any of these influencer tiktok 00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:51.559 dancers need to get on the fidget toys because 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.619 it makes my life so much easier and that's so 00:28:54.619 --> 00:28:55.839 interesting as well because we actually have 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:58.180 the opposite problem in primary school they are 00:28:58.180 --> 00:29:01.640 very much seen as toys rather than resources 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:07.039 so if a child sees a peer fiddling or twiddling 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.029 with a fidget or whatever They will want it. 00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:13.789 And then the teachers in this weird space where 00:29:13.789 --> 00:29:16.609 they want to be affirming to their needs, you 00:29:16.609 --> 00:29:18.390 know, maybe they do need it. Who am I to say 00:29:18.390 --> 00:29:21.630 they don't need it? To having 33 kids in the 00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:23.769 class that half of them are getting something 00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:26.029 out of it, or actually technically it'll be 25 00:29:26.029 --> 00:29:28.849 % are getting something out of it. And 75 % are 00:29:28.849 --> 00:29:30.589 completely distracted because they don't actually 00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:33.430 need it in the first place. Yeah, no, that's 00:29:33.430 --> 00:29:36.829 the opposite. It's so different, isn't it? Yeah, 00:29:36.849 --> 00:29:39.799 no, that's the complete opposite. of my my problem 00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:42.660 i i remember being that age though i remember 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.019 being in those teenage years and you just live 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:47.339 in your bubble and all you cared about was what 00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:49.119 was what was happening after school it matters 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:52.799 so much i just i do feel like secondary school 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.740 is really crucial for teaching the important 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.690 stuff it really is the academic stuff But I think 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:01.089 completely equal with that is learning about 00:30:01.089 --> 00:30:04.170 how to be in a social dynamic, how to make friends, 00:30:04.329 --> 00:30:08.130 how to form your identity, how to form positive 00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:10.450 relationships and to break negative relationships. 00:30:10.470 --> 00:30:12.490 You're learning so much important stuff that 00:30:12.490 --> 00:30:15.509 will also benefit you in adulthood too. And it's 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:18.309 when those two things are trying to be together. 00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:21.049 I mean, secondary school is an absolute minefield, 00:30:21.230 --> 00:30:24.190 isn't it? You've got hormones as well. You've 00:30:24.190 --> 00:30:27.309 got, oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, your job is 00:30:27.309 --> 00:30:30.529 not for the weak -hearted for sure. It is. I 00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:32.950 mean, I do love it. I used to not be a teacher 00:30:32.950 --> 00:30:34.990 and then I came into teaching and I do love it. 00:30:35.049 --> 00:30:37.529 And I'm glad I chose secondary. It is a crazy 00:30:37.529 --> 00:30:42.930 world to work in. It's interesting because I 00:30:42.930 --> 00:30:45.190 think I see these, I mean, I see these on Instagram 00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:47.329 all the time. When you talked about your classroom 00:30:47.329 --> 00:30:51.309 on my podcast a few months ago, we still teach 00:30:51.309 --> 00:30:54.130 with kids set in rows. We still teach with kids, 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:56.789 having one exercise book for the whole class. 00:30:57.109 --> 00:30:59.349 We still teach with, you know, hands up. And 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:01.210 I see it on Instagram all the time where it's, 00:31:01.210 --> 00:31:03.769 you know, how they used to train, sorry, how 00:31:03.769 --> 00:31:06.329 they used to school back in the 60s and 70s. 00:31:06.349 --> 00:31:08.529 It's exactly the same as what we do now. Even 00:31:08.529 --> 00:31:10.569 since I was at school, school has got so much 00:31:10.569 --> 00:31:13.410 harder, so much harder for kids. The exams that 00:31:13.410 --> 00:31:15.190 they sit and the intensity at which they sit 00:31:15.190 --> 00:31:17.910 them has got so much worse. So when did I sit 00:31:17.910 --> 00:31:21.059 my GCSEs? 2007? And my science exam was a multiple 00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:24.480 choice test. Yeah. Now it's done. It was 25 minutes. 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:26.940 Now it's an hour and 15. And that's just one 00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.519 subject. And these kids are sitting 11. Wow. 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.720 Intensity at which they work. And they, you know, 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:37.099 they come in, they sit at their desk, they listen 00:31:37.099 --> 00:31:39.339 to the teacher, they engage in whatever activity 00:31:39.339 --> 00:31:41.440 the teacher's set. But it will be at the desk, 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.859 most likely, majority of the time anyway, will 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.339 be at the desk. And, you know, hands up. write 00:31:46.339 --> 00:31:48.220 your notes move on to the next lesson unless 00:31:48.220 --> 00:31:50.900 you're doing drama of course but you know english 00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:53.299 math science science you can do some practicals 00:31:53.299 --> 00:31:57.250 definitely but the curriculum is so heavy that 00:31:57.250 --> 00:31:59.210 you do have to do quite a lot of theory work. 00:31:59.369 --> 00:32:01.609 What is the benefit of that? Because as a country, 00:32:01.769 --> 00:32:05.029 we want better results. And if they feel like 00:32:05.029 --> 00:32:07.269 they're going to get better results doing more 00:32:07.269 --> 00:32:09.809 practical, keeping kids engaged, then why are 00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:12.309 they going the opposite of that? There's such 00:32:12.309 --> 00:32:14.509 a breakdown in the understanding. I think, you 00:32:14.509 --> 00:32:17.930 know, all the people in charge of, I mean, who's 00:32:17.930 --> 00:32:20.329 the education secretary? I mean, it changes so 00:32:20.329 --> 00:32:22.930 often. Are they a teacher? Probably not. No, 00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:25.680 never. They're a businessman. Yeah. I don't even 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:27.779 follow politics because it drives me insane, 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:29.839 but I can't imagine they're ever a teacher or 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:33.079 someone that stepped into a mainstream 2 ,000 00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:35.559 kids secondary educational school. I doubt that 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:37.319 they're that person. They could be an apologies 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.940 if I'm wrong. I don't think you're wrong. I just, 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:43.039 it's teachers are under so much stress. Like 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:44.900 when I think of the science curriculum and what 00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:48.000 I have to teach kids and it's just a memory game 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.680 and a knowledge application game and it's passing 00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:52.819 an exam and it's just... Which supports some 00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:55.359 people. Some people learn that way. Some people 00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:58.759 are very like book -led people. They can retain 00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.660 information. They can regurgitate information 00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:04.740 and they remember it. Does that make them standing 00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:06.599 citizens? And I don't know if that's another 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.900 question, but they could get through their exam. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:11.480 But for so many children, whether they've got 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.000 a diagnosis or not, that would feel like an impossible 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.880 task. I was one of them. I am an incredibly intelligent 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.759 person. I have a six -figure business. I am on 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:25.279 it. But I really, really just scraped a C in 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:29.819 my GCSE. And I've only got a degree because I 00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:32.680 chose acting, which is all practical, no essay 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:37.420 writing. And because it didn't work for me. But 00:33:37.420 --> 00:33:39.579 as an adult, I found success and I feel like 00:33:39.579 --> 00:33:41.019 children should have the opportunity to because 00:33:41.019 --> 00:33:43.680 the school system is so built around one way 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.019 of learning. It's putting people off from further 00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:51.519 education and any kind of academia or any kind 00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:53.940 of like teaching, for example, like any kind 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:57.160 of career in a way, because they are so tired 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.579 of being feeling stupid. honestly that's what 00:34:00.579 --> 00:34:03.359 it comes down to yeah no and it is putting people 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.180 off further education but then we also live in 00:34:05.180 --> 00:34:07.640 a society where a degree is almost expected now 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:11.000 yeah so that's really it really conflicts itself 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.860 yeah because you're setting up an education system 00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:16.480 which favors a very small percentage of people 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.260 and then you're saying well you need a degree 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:21.260 and if you don't have a degree these days people 00:34:21.260 --> 00:34:24.179 are like okay you don't get an interview so my 00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:26.900 mum used to work in a bank and she had one o 00:34:26.900 --> 00:34:29.550 -level now you need a degree to have that job 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:33.250 and that was we're talking what 30 years ago 00:34:33.250 --> 00:34:35.730 just it just frustrates me because the conversations 00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:38.210 I have to have with kids are what you want to 00:34:38.210 --> 00:34:39.750 do in the future you know they're choosing their 00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:41.690 GCSEs they're choosing their A -levels choosing 00:34:41.690 --> 00:34:43.650 your A -levels determines what universities you're 00:34:43.650 --> 00:34:45.110 going to apply for you're talking to kids about 00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:47.389 what they want to do in the future every single 00:34:47.389 --> 00:34:49.849 one of them expects them they have to get a degree 00:34:49.849 --> 00:34:52.440 like they have to There's no alternative and 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.699 if you do anything else, then it's a failure. 00:34:54.940 --> 00:34:58.679 But university was, again, was created for a 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.159 very small, very academic group of people. You 00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:04.579 sit in a lecture theatre for two hours and listen 00:35:04.579 --> 00:35:06.860 to someone and take notes. How many people could 00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:08.239 actually concentrate for that long? And it's 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:11.510 self -motivated as well, isn't it? Yeah, regardless 00:35:11.510 --> 00:35:13.949 of your profile, God, that's a long time to sit 00:35:13.949 --> 00:35:16.789 there. So again, not everyone was meant to go 00:35:16.789 --> 00:35:19.289 to university. It was not meant to be a thing 00:35:19.289 --> 00:35:20.750 where everyone was meant to get a degree. We 00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:23.889 knew COVID was a perfect example. Everybody who 00:35:23.889 --> 00:35:26.510 had that kind of academic job was out of work. 00:35:26.750 --> 00:35:28.590 Who did we actually need? Well, I suppose apart 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:32.110 from nurses, bless them. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, 00:35:32.150 --> 00:35:34.650 who did we actually need? We needed on the ground 00:35:34.650 --> 00:35:37.690 skilled workers that are incredible, that have 00:35:37.690 --> 00:35:39.929 such great intelligence. It's just not academic 00:35:39.929 --> 00:35:43.809 intelligence. They are practical problem solvers 00:35:43.809 --> 00:35:47.090 that are really hardworking and deserve so much 00:35:47.090 --> 00:35:50.550 more than often they get. But that's brilliant 00:35:50.550 --> 00:35:56.469 minds too. How do you know what system to try? 00:35:56.670 --> 00:35:58.829 So we've said there's loads of AAC out there. 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.059 We've got a mentally speaking child. What do 00:36:02.059 --> 00:36:05.900 we try first? What's a good thing to explore? 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:10.239 I feel like it's a loaded question. It might 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:13.739 be. As a speech therapist, I think because I've 00:36:13.739 --> 00:36:17.739 had so many years of experience with familiarizing 00:36:17.739 --> 00:36:20.960 myself with systems and getting systems for children 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.480 that it's almost like my brain just like... automatically 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.840 processes all this information and is like yes 00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.460 this is the one that i'm gonna try and sometimes 00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:32.119 for me to be like well why why am i thinking 00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:35.039 that way and being able to explain that is another 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.940 thing And it really depends. Sometimes I do like 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:41.460 to look at, okay, is this child in a school system? 00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:44.119 Are they in a classroom? Or is there any familiarity 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.079 with any sort of program? That shouldn't be the 00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.880 end -all be -all necessarily for choosing one. 00:36:50.059 --> 00:36:52.900 But if the entire classroom is using one program, 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:56.019 maybe it's worth trying that program and seeing 00:36:56.019 --> 00:36:57.719 if they're successful. And if they're not, you 00:36:57.719 --> 00:36:59.519 know, we can switch gears and try something else, 00:36:59.539 --> 00:37:01.860 but they might have better support if we're going 00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:03.980 with what everybody, you know, in the classroom 00:37:03.980 --> 00:37:07.280 is used to. Definitely. I live in an area where 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.519 there's a very high Spanish speaking population. 00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.340 So I'm always looking at the bilingual aspects 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:16.940 of that. So TD Snap has a really, really great 00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:20.000 bilingual component that is you can switch very 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.840 quickly between languages. And that is usually 00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:26.880 high on my list of priorities. If I have a family 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.440 that is bilingual, especially a lot of the families 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:31.719 here, one parent might not even speak English 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:35.139 at all. So if I want. them to use it it needs 00:37:35.139 --> 00:37:37.579 to be in the language that they are using at 00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:40.619 home as well as the language you know that the 00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:43.739 child is going to be experiencing in school also 00:37:43.739 --> 00:37:45.980 look at some of the motor planning things as 00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:49.179 well too do i feel like this child will benefit 00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:51.699 from a more motor planning based system you know 00:37:51.699 --> 00:37:54.000 like lamp or it's always snapping back to the 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.300 home page that organization of it just based 00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:00.159 on some other you know characteristics that that 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:03.809 child has but i typically like to consider a 00:38:03.809 --> 00:38:06.010 few different systems and say, okay, I think 00:38:06.010 --> 00:38:08.210 this one, you know, might be a good fit for this 00:38:08.210 --> 00:38:10.449 child and try it out. But there's been times 00:38:10.449 --> 00:38:12.329 when, you know, we're going through this trial 00:38:12.329 --> 00:38:15.050 period and I'm like, just, it just doesn't feel 00:38:15.050 --> 00:38:17.389 like it's, you know, I feel like there's something 00:38:17.389 --> 00:38:20.750 else that we could try. And so I think also knowing 00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:23.570 it's okay to switch gears and not be like, well, 00:38:23.590 --> 00:38:25.829 this is the one I decided on, you know, that's 00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:28.170 why that period exists to try these out and be 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:30.769 like, okay, well, let's switch and see, you know, 00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:33.360 what system might work. better and try a different 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:35.840 one and see if we have a different outcome. But 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:38.199 sometimes, honestly, you don't know. And I think 00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:41.159 as speech therapists, it's okay to feel like 00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.659 I don't really know what system is the best one. 00:38:43.900 --> 00:38:47.079 And maybe I had this trial for four weeks with 00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:49.059 a child and they didn't touch it or look at it 00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:51.889 at all. And I have no idea. what to pick. And 00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:53.110 at the end of the day, you kind of just have 00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:55.409 to use your best clinical judgment and then say, 00:38:55.489 --> 00:38:58.150 okay, well, once we get the device, like I sometimes 00:38:58.150 --> 00:39:00.210 think there are kids where there is a program 00:39:00.210 --> 00:39:02.489 that this is the perfect fit for the child, but 00:39:02.489 --> 00:39:05.590 most of the time, the perfect fit is going to 00:39:05.590 --> 00:39:08.090 be the one that's implemented by everybody else. 00:39:08.349 --> 00:39:11.989 So yeah, ultimately it's, if everyone else is 00:39:11.989 --> 00:39:14.250 using it, then that's going to be the benefit. 00:39:14.369 --> 00:39:16.210 There's no point having the perfect program and 00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:19.159 no one else is using it. Right, exactly. I think 00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:21.360 that makes perfect sense. I think that's really 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:23.739 great advice. Yeah, what are they using already? 00:39:24.019 --> 00:39:26.239 What is around already? What are their adults 00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:29.119 around incompetent with or can access? Because 00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:31.000 ultimately, if that's not happening, the child 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.760 isn't going to be able to access it either. And 00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.219 then yeah, motor planning is a really great, 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:37.480 yeah, I hadn't considered that. But of course, 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.219 if a child doesn't have the dexterity to single 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:44.340 out a single image on maybe a communication device, 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.940 or then maybe symbols on blocks is a good idea. 00:39:47.210 --> 00:39:50.190 or objects is a good idea or something like that 00:39:50.190 --> 00:39:53.250 so yeah it is individualized isn't it ultimately 00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:57.909 and yeah trial and error so have a hypothesis 00:39:57.909 --> 00:40:00.130 but then put it to the test rather than deciding 00:40:00.130 --> 00:40:02.849 before you've even tried it i think yeah it's 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:06.150 where trials exist exactly what you said have 00:40:06.150 --> 00:40:09.230 you ever seen really fast progress with access 00:40:09.230 --> 00:40:13.719 to aac and it tends to happen with people who 00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:16.380 should have had it much younger. I used to work 00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:19.659 in a school system and I mostly worked at the 00:40:19.659 --> 00:40:21.679 middle and high school level. It was a specialized 00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.599 school just for autistic individuals. So I had 00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:29.300 kids up to the age of 21 and adults. Some of 00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:33.199 these individuals had not been given access to 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:37.969 high tech AAC. And they may have been 14, 15, 00:40:38.250 --> 00:40:42.449 16 years old or even older. And for some of those 00:40:42.449 --> 00:40:44.590 kids, sometimes it really was as simple as just 00:40:44.590 --> 00:40:46.730 like, I'm just going to put this in front of 00:40:46.730 --> 00:40:49.409 you and see what you do with it. And I did have 00:40:49.409 --> 00:40:52.570 a couple instances where, you know, pretty immediately. 00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:55.880 those individuals were putting full sentences 00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:58.780 together. Because they'd been using symbols, 00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:01.300 books maybe, and they'd been using communication 00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:03.519 books, and they'd been using iPads all separately, 00:41:03.739 --> 00:41:05.940 then it kind of makes sense to them, I guess. 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.039 And they were just older and had more exposure 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.320 to language, you know, compared to maybe the 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:13.000 two, three -year -old little ones that we have. 00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:16.440 So I have seen that as well, too. I've had some 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:20.369 kids where... Like you said, they are immediately 00:41:20.369 --> 00:41:23.170 touching it the second that you put it in front 00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.510 of them. But maybe it's not in the way that we're 00:41:25.510 --> 00:41:29.650 expecting that to look like. And so it kind of 00:41:29.650 --> 00:41:31.769 just depends, I think, what that progress looks 00:41:31.769 --> 00:41:34.150 like. Having something at the moment where I've 00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:36.190 got people in my class who's been using it maybe 00:41:36.190 --> 00:41:38.750 for a few months. I'm using a communication device 00:41:38.750 --> 00:41:40.949 for about a few months. And he's really great. 00:41:41.070 --> 00:41:44.730 If we model to him on a single page, he can navigate 00:41:44.730 --> 00:41:47.550 it and finds it again and knows that. It's he's 00:41:47.550 --> 00:41:50.409 doing it to request and to comment on like now. 00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:53.650 And so he'll find an animal or he'll ask for 00:41:53.650 --> 00:41:56.090 a squeeze, for example, but he's really struggling 00:41:56.090 --> 00:41:58.429 to navigate between the folders and we're finding 00:41:58.429 --> 00:42:02.389 that to be a barrier. Now we can continue showing 00:42:02.389 --> 00:42:05.250 and modeling through the folders, but actually 00:42:05.250 --> 00:42:07.530 what we're kind of going to is we're doing that 00:42:07.530 --> 00:42:09.510 for him and then finding him the page that he 00:42:09.510 --> 00:42:10.989 wants. I don't know if that's right. Have you 00:42:10.989 --> 00:42:13.889 got any advice for me personally on, on. that. 00:42:13.969 --> 00:42:17.150 Two pieces of advice that I normally give people 00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:19.469 for this, kind of a caveat behind it is sometimes 00:42:19.469 --> 00:42:22.210 it depends on the system. Is the system like 00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:24.610 you have to go six folders deep to get something? 00:42:24.769 --> 00:42:28.190 Because that is a lot for me as an adult. So 00:42:28.190 --> 00:42:30.070 sometimes before even getting to what should 00:42:30.070 --> 00:42:33.159 I do, it's looking at the system. That's kind 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.000 of where it comes in where when I'm talking with 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:36.920 families, you know, and back to what you had 00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:39.400 first asked about it feeling overwhelming, the 00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:42.519 more icons we have on a screen, the less navigation 00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:45.460 actually requires to go into things. So sometimes 00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:47.639 looking at that and seeing like, okay, is this 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.760 could we add more icons to each screen, and then 00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:52.420 it requires less navigation, but two strategies 00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:55.420 that I typically use with kids when I feel like 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.440 They're ready to be navigating and we just can't 00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.099 quite cross that bridge. One strategy I use is 00:43:01.099 --> 00:43:04.760 narrating out loud. So if I'm modeling the word 00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:09.280 open, I might say actions, page two, open. So 00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:12.260 I'm actually narrating exactly which icons that 00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:15.940 I am pressing. Or for an animal, things, wild 00:43:15.940 --> 00:43:19.440 animals, tiger, saying that out loud and really 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.760 slowing down while I'm doing it. And another 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:24.300 strategy, I guess this kind of could fall under 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:27.110 a level of of prompting. And I think being careful 00:43:27.110 --> 00:43:28.969 to know like, okay, this child is really trying 00:43:28.969 --> 00:43:31.630 to express this. And this depends on the system. 00:43:31.730 --> 00:43:34.250 But if there's a search feature, a good search 00:43:34.250 --> 00:43:36.789 feature, so pro local to go, really anything 00:43:36.789 --> 00:43:39.130 outside touch chat, the touch chat search feature 00:43:39.130 --> 00:43:42.250 often does not lead you the easiest path to get 00:43:42.250 --> 00:43:45.320 to a word. For the other programs, sometimes 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:47.800 what I've done with some kids is search the word. 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:49.739 And then when you click on the word, it actually 00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:52.280 will highlight it and black everything else out. 00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:54.840 And I will then encourage them, you know, to 00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:57.340 be able to walk through that motor plan. And 00:43:57.340 --> 00:44:00.059 there's nothing else on the screen that can be 00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:02.599 kind of throwing them off. But sometimes just 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.719 getting over that initial difficulty with it. 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:07.239 But those are the two strategies. That's really 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:11.880 great advice. Yeah, we use Proloquo. So using 00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:15.949 the search function. So if you search it, and 00:44:15.949 --> 00:44:19.469 then you click on which word, it'll highlight 00:44:19.469 --> 00:44:21.489 the motor plan pathway to get there. And I've 00:44:21.489 --> 00:44:23.150 had a lot of good success with that with kids. 00:44:25.659 --> 00:44:27.880 Social media is a great connector, as you said 00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:31.199 before that, of that's a great idea or even all 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.559 just finding it difficult together. No fix, just 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.159 finding it difficult together. Just someone else's 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.659 message at 4am where you're thinking you're the 00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:42.139 only person awake in the world and is really 00:44:42.139 --> 00:44:44.980 lonely and really tired. And actually when you 00:44:44.980 --> 00:44:47.559 then sort of on there chatting to someone who 00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:50.559 is in exactly the same situation, like for example, 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:54.780 so Noah has melatonin. And, I mean, to be fair, 00:44:54.940 --> 00:44:56.940 whether it helps or not, who really knows? I 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.440 think it does help a little bit. It helps you 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.159 get to sleep. It doesn't keep you asleep, I think, 00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:01.619 is the thing. No, exactly, and that's the biggest 00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:05.360 thing. But then we got the slow -release tablets, 00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:08.400 and I was like, Noah having ARFID and only eating 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:09.780 two foods, I was like, how am I going to get 00:45:09.780 --> 00:45:11.800 a tablet into him? But, again, power of social 00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:15.280 media. Someone showed about, like, using a syringe 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.139 with water. I was like, well, a syringe isn't 00:45:17.139 --> 00:45:18.780 going to work with Noah because, again, that's 00:45:18.780 --> 00:45:22.219 too much demand. In the end, I was like, right, 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:23.949 we're going to... going to put the little because 00:45:23.949 --> 00:45:26.070 they're like micro tablets into his straw in 00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:28.349 his drink and now he drinks it no problem at 00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:30.050 all doesn't even know it's there just sucks it 00:45:30.050 --> 00:45:32.610 up but i wouldn't have even thought about that 00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:35.449 had i not been that post on social media and 00:45:35.449 --> 00:45:37.369 actually that's been life -changing because i 00:45:37.369 --> 00:45:39.090 would not have been able to get that tablet into 00:45:39.090 --> 00:45:42.110 him had he i not kind of thought of a way in 00:45:42.110 --> 00:45:44.250 his drink so i think and it's just like those 00:45:44.250 --> 00:45:47.230 kind of everyday little tips that actually have 00:45:47.230 --> 00:45:50.389 such a big difference because we well we definitely 00:45:50.389 --> 00:45:52.449 now know about the different areas of autism 00:45:52.449 --> 00:45:55.710 and like kind of the stereotypical what to do 00:45:55.710 --> 00:45:58.030 and how to help but you quite you quite often 00:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.570 find that actually in the real life where every 00:46:00.570 --> 00:46:03.829 child is different neurodiverse or not that actually 00:46:03.829 --> 00:46:06.769 they don't necessarily work for your child so 00:46:06.769 --> 00:46:09.389 it's just about kind of getting as many tips 00:46:09.389 --> 00:46:11.449 as you can. And sharing. Yeah, and sharing. And 00:46:11.449 --> 00:46:14.230 so at the end of the month, actually, I'm starting 00:46:14.230 --> 00:46:17.329 this kind of parent support group for parents 00:46:17.329 --> 00:46:20.130 of neurodivergent children. And that is literally 00:46:20.130 --> 00:46:23.050 all about just getting together, like crying 00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:25.809 together, whether that's free laughter or kind 00:46:25.809 --> 00:46:29.260 of... tough times sharing tips like everyone 00:46:29.260 --> 00:46:31.019 will be at different kind of stages of their 00:46:31.019 --> 00:46:33.880 journey I've kind of had like invaluable support 00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:36.739 from some of they're actually parents at the 00:46:36.739 --> 00:46:39.019 school I work at who have really helped when 00:46:39.019 --> 00:46:42.000 I've been through the HCP process with Noah and 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.260 like until you've done it you don't know these 00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:46.659 things so then actually and then it's too late 00:46:46.659 --> 00:46:48.159 because you probably aren't going to do it again 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.159 I hadn't even heard of what any HCP was right 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.119 this is it still yeah you understand what it 00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:57.210 all is luckily I've done it Yeah. But that's 00:46:57.210 --> 00:46:59.710 true. The support network can be fantastic. Is 00:46:59.710 --> 00:47:02.949 it in person or virtual? Well, it's definitely 00:47:02.949 --> 00:47:05.210 like, so this will be the first meetup and we 00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:07.289 are going to do this in person, which will be 00:47:07.289 --> 00:47:09.809 kind of for Colchester based families in Essex. 00:47:09.849 --> 00:47:11.909 But then I don't know. I don't know where it 00:47:11.909 --> 00:47:13.869 will go really, whether it will go into kind 00:47:13.869 --> 00:47:17.070 of doing virtual events. I'll probably do some 00:47:17.070 --> 00:47:19.929 like locally and then some virtually and whether 00:47:19.929 --> 00:47:22.429 it will be just socialising or whether potentially 00:47:22.429 --> 00:47:25.349 I'll do some kind of sharing of information as 00:47:25.349 --> 00:47:28.369 well in the long term. Or like a chat group or 00:47:28.369 --> 00:47:30.130 something that you can just informally message. 00:47:30.230 --> 00:47:32.829 Exactly. I just think like the power of kind 00:47:32.829 --> 00:47:35.570 of community and finding people in a similar 00:47:35.570 --> 00:47:38.570 situation to yourselves, that's definitely helped 00:47:38.570 --> 00:47:40.429 me more than anything. And I think like as a 00:47:40.429 --> 00:47:42.010 dad, like that isn't something you agree. Well, 00:47:42.010 --> 00:47:44.750 I was going to say, females are so good at that. 00:47:44.849 --> 00:47:47.630 It's social media and building connections. How 00:47:47.630 --> 00:47:50.269 do you feel, Stuart? Do you feel like that would 00:47:50.269 --> 00:47:52.369 be helpful to you or that kind of social media 00:47:52.369 --> 00:47:54.670 stuff? Because there's not many fathers out there. 00:47:54.789 --> 00:47:57.250 To be perfectly honest, I'm still a bit like, 00:47:57.429 --> 00:48:01.889 whoa, I don't know whether I fully commit to, 00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:05.190 I don't know. I guess if I'm being completely 00:48:05.190 --> 00:48:07.349 honest, it comes down to kind of an acceptance 00:48:07.349 --> 00:48:12.150 that my child is not neurotypical. There's still 00:48:12.150 --> 00:48:15.030 that, if I give in, if you like, then that's 00:48:15.030 --> 00:48:17.670 all over and I'm sort of losing sight. That being 00:48:17.670 --> 00:48:22.760 said. I 100 % I kind of second feed everything 00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:28.059 that this one gets yeah but it's tough I can't 00:48:28.059 --> 00:48:31.000 quite explain it but as a dad you're kind of 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.500 macho and you want the best and you want this 00:48:33.500 --> 00:48:36.199 and that and you want your son or daughter to 00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:39.320 be the best and then you get hit with this wave 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.119 of autism and neurotypical and yeah global delay 00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:49.079 yeah it's like my god what what what is my child 00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:53.079 going to turn up? Are they going to have a normal 00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:55.880 life? And it's kind of... And no one can answer 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.860 that. So I've worked with 400 plus children, 00:48:59.059 --> 00:49:01.579 lots and lots that everything you're describing 00:49:01.579 --> 00:49:04.639 now, I can kind of imagine it. And I still can't 00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.860 tell you what could or couldn't be because... 00:49:08.090 --> 00:49:10.389 Their journeys are so different. They say, don't 00:49:10.389 --> 00:49:12.769 they, you meet one autistic person, you meet, 00:49:12.789 --> 00:49:15.449 you've known one autistic person. Every single 00:49:15.449 --> 00:49:18.630 child I have is not similar to each other in 00:49:18.630 --> 00:49:21.929 any, or in some ways, but they really are unique. 00:49:22.150 --> 00:49:25.230 I'm not just saying that. And some have gone 00:49:25.230 --> 00:49:28.489 on to go to college and have jobs and live semi 00:49:28.489 --> 00:49:30.469 -independently or independently and have relationships. 00:49:30.710 --> 00:49:34.050 And others haven't. Others live in assisted living 00:49:34.050 --> 00:49:36.650 or live at home or live with siblings. Some of 00:49:36.650 --> 00:49:38.699 them volunteer. here some of them don't they 00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:40.860 have a PA and they go out for the day they were 00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:43.940 so and and they all looked like Noah at five 00:49:43.940 --> 00:49:48.139 yeah so I cannot I can't answer the future just 00:49:48.139 --> 00:49:50.820 as much as any other person can and I don't know 00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:53.599 if that gives you comfort or not it's just it 00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:57.239 just is that's the hardest thing like it's a 00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.480 journey for Noah and it's a journey for us and 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:03.019 it's just accepting it and whether you embrace 00:50:03.019 --> 00:50:05.719 it full -on straight away or you gradually kind 00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:08.599 of come into it and learn and take little bits 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:13.059 i think for a guy going to a group is really 00:50:13.059 --> 00:50:16.059 quite like frightening yeah whether it's a neuro 00:50:16.059 --> 00:50:18.460 whether it's divergent parenting or whatever 00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:21.159 like you just would like normally stereotypical 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:23.960 isn't it like the the dad is normally full -time 00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:26.920 work And then the mum is the one who's part -time. 00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:28.179 I know that's not always... And you've got your 00:50:28.179 --> 00:50:30.119 friends and... She was always like, I've got 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:31.679 loads of friends. They're great. I don't need 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:36.099 any more. But it is true. Like, they don't get 00:50:36.099 --> 00:50:39.539 it. No. They don't. And they try, but they can't. 00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:41.940 Yeah. And I think that's, for me, why I'm like, 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:44.280 I don't think, and it's no reflection on them 00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:46.900 as friends, but, like, parenting a neurotypical 00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:49.659 child, you just can't get it. Because, actually, 00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.889 it is... unbelievable some of the things that 00:50:52.889 --> 00:50:55.309 happen and we're like oh my god what is happening 00:50:55.309 --> 00:50:57.449 like yeah I think that's probably been our the 00:50:57.449 --> 00:50:59.789 thing with families throughout the like journey 00:50:59.789 --> 00:51:03.510 of Noah's life so far is that people can kind 00:51:03.510 --> 00:51:06.969 of suggest things or like you can go to different 00:51:06.969 --> 00:51:10.150 things but until you are ready as a person and 00:51:10.150 --> 00:51:13.230 until you've almost got to that I think you like 00:51:13.230 --> 00:51:17.510 do accept that no Noah's autistic yeah yeah but 00:51:17.510 --> 00:51:20.469 equally probably would like to change that, like, 00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:22.630 if we're being honest. And I think acceptance 00:51:22.630 --> 00:51:25.650 is constant. I don't think acceptance is ever 00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:28.210 finished. No, for sure. I think with every day 00:51:28.210 --> 00:51:32.139 and moment, acceptance has to... grow and because 00:51:32.139 --> 00:51:35.199 so much is unknown how could you ever now accept 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:37.099 who he's going to become when you don't know 00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:40.019 what that is so i think it happens daily yearly 00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:43.260 moment by moment yeah situation by situation 00:51:43.260 --> 00:51:46.219 is that acceptance is you know first of all not 00:51:46.219 --> 00:51:48.340 accepting and then growing and then accepting 00:51:48.340 --> 00:51:50.400 and then there's a new situation not accepting 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:53.690 i think it's consistent acceptance i think that's 00:51:53.690 --> 00:51:55.929 another thing that people don't realize it's 00:51:55.929 --> 00:51:58.650 just constant yeah definitely and i think it 00:51:58.650 --> 00:52:00.510 is like you hit the nail on the head it's just 00:52:00.510 --> 00:52:03.409 so hard because you just don't know you don't 00:52:03.409 --> 00:52:05.889 know what's coming and like i always say we spoke 00:52:05.889 --> 00:52:08.090 about this before yeah i was like i would love 00:52:08.090 --> 00:52:11.269 a crystal ball like a time like see right, this 00:52:11.269 --> 00:52:13.489 is where we're going to get to. But I don't know 00:52:13.489 --> 00:52:14.889 whether I would. I don't think you would like 00:52:14.889 --> 00:52:17.269 that, but I would love that because I would then, 00:52:17.269 --> 00:52:19.949 I think anyway I'd like it, but I'd then know, 00:52:19.969 --> 00:52:22.610 I would know what we're working towards, like 00:52:22.610 --> 00:52:25.570 I would know the end goal and then I'd feel like 00:52:25.570 --> 00:52:28.369 I would then be easier able to accept that. Whereas 00:52:28.369 --> 00:52:30.329 Stuart's like, oh God, no, I'd hate that. I wouldn't 00:52:30.329 --> 00:52:33.150 want to like see into the future. But yeah, it 00:52:33.150 --> 00:52:37.150 is tricky. But I think also when you are so exhausted 00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:39.909 and I have definitely been through this stage. 00:52:40.110 --> 00:52:42.030 I didn't want to connect with people because 00:52:42.030 --> 00:52:44.869 I was just so tired you had nothing left and 00:52:44.869 --> 00:52:46.889 I didn't have anything left and I still definitely 00:52:46.889 --> 00:52:48.670 go through times of that where I'm like oh I'm 00:52:48.670 --> 00:52:51.949 so mentally drained it's a huge effort yeah go 00:52:51.949 --> 00:52:54.349 and put on your kind of happy face and also they're 00:52:54.349 --> 00:52:57.429 putting on their stuff onto you and you're only 00:52:57.429 --> 00:52:59.989 just managing your own stuff that's that kind 00:52:59.989 --> 00:53:02.230 of weird social thing isn't it of like oh god 00:53:02.230 --> 00:53:05.369 yeah but they might want me to help them and 00:53:05.369 --> 00:53:09.030 i can't do that through my job like i'm not saying 00:53:09.030 --> 00:53:10.889 but i've done the qualification and i've done 00:53:10.889 --> 00:53:13.590 kind of the acting role for a bit as well um 00:53:13.590 --> 00:53:16.610 so a lot of families at work if they do have 00:53:16.610 --> 00:53:19.630 a child who it has additional needs they will 00:53:19.630 --> 00:53:22.010 come and talk to me so i do that through my job 00:53:22.010 --> 00:53:25.489 which then probably means that i find it easier 00:53:25.489 --> 00:53:28.130 like in my personal life too whereas i guess 00:53:28.130 --> 00:53:30.690 like in your role it's nothing at all to do with 00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:35.670 kind of neurodiversity or like parenting so actually 00:53:35.670 --> 00:53:38.510 that's so different that that is kind of far 00:53:38.510 --> 00:53:40.889 removed from like your norm maybe and that's 00:53:40.889 --> 00:53:44.329 why it isn't necessarily something that you find 00:53:44.329 --> 00:53:46.769 but then equally we have had conversations where 00:53:46.769 --> 00:53:49.210 she was like oh like they just totally don't 00:53:49.210 --> 00:53:51.409 get it or it's really sad because like the guys 00:53:51.409 --> 00:53:54.070 are talking about their children doing this like 00:53:54.070 --> 00:53:56.710 and that's so different to Noah like bikes wasn't 00:53:56.710 --> 00:53:59.630 it yeah yeah like both of my good friends have 00:53:59.630 --> 00:54:02.369 got similar age kids to Noah and they were talking 00:54:02.369 --> 00:54:05.829 about riding a bike or and it was like I was 00:54:05.829 --> 00:54:08.250 just like I'm just so far removed from this conversation 00:54:08.250 --> 00:54:11.480 because yeah Yeah, and those conversations are 00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:13.320 going to sting, no matter how much you love and 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:16.760 accept your child. Nothing on them or nothing. 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:19.400 It's just that reminder, isn't it, of what milestones 00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.239 he may or may not reach, and he certainly isn't 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:26.800 reaching now. And it is, I think I almost, although 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.019 I say I'm really accepting, sometimes I just 00:54:29.019 --> 00:54:30.719 don't think about it. Like, that's probably my 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:33.360 coping as well. I can't think about it too much. 00:54:33.980 --> 00:54:37.300 um on a like personal mummy level because that's 00:54:37.300 --> 00:54:39.960 too emotional and too tricky but actually i can 00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.420 think about it on like uh not on a professional 00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:44.480 level but almost on a like so you go into your 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:46.480 like this is how we're going to do this is what 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:48.119 we're going to do this is what our strategies 00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:51.340 we've got to use i do that don't i just break 00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:53.780 down yeah i think so too and sometimes it's like 00:54:53.780 --> 00:54:56.980 oh that's like a really like matter of fact matter 00:54:56.980 --> 00:54:58.860 of fact way of thinking and talking about it 00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:00.519 but i'm not trying to do that i think it's just 00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:04.469 my coping mechanism yeah That's it for this week's 00:55:04.469 --> 00:55:07.030 episode. I hope you enjoyed taking a look back 00:55:07.030 --> 00:55:09.570 at some of my favourite moments from Series 1. 00:55:09.750 --> 00:55:12.309 If you would like to be on my podcast for Series 00:55:12.309 --> 00:55:15.269 2, then please get in touch. You can email me 00:55:15.269 --> 00:55:18.730 at oursensorykids at gmail .com or just send 00:55:18.730 --> 00:55:21.630 me a DM on social media and I'd love to have 00:55:21.630 --> 00:55:23.110 you on. See you next time.