Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
So these episodes are going to be a little bit
different over August. We are going to re -look
at my favourite moments from the podcast from
Series 1. We've had such amazing conversations
this year. And thank you so much to everybody
who has been on the podcast. You've been incredible.
And thank you so much for all the listeners for
your support so that we can continue this for
Series 2 from September. I hope you enjoy taking
a look back at, yeah, my favourite moments. He
doesn't hate me. He hates the situation. But...
i know that he actually in the end feels secure
in these boundaries and and this is an agreement
together and and we'll go ahead so i suppose
the the first thing is to know what the do's
and don'ts are because they can't be reactive
you can't be seeing and deciding the moment that's
not fair it's not fair on you or your partner
who's whether it's a colleague or or you know
your partner with your child managing that because
you're making up on the fly and the states are
going to happen aren't they and you're going
and then that's in the system exactly so the
idea is that you pick a calm moment away from
anything going on where you can sit down and
i love that the children are involved as well
if they're able to be i think that's fantastic
and you can make it visual as well you know the
younger children when we work with our tbbs families
we we have pictures that they put in and we do
images and i think you know or even even older
children that find communication a struggle anything
that is a visual representation a bit like the
mood board yeah you know like the goal setting
Because it's the same thing. This is the family
goal. This is what we're aiming at. We're not
going to be perfect all the time, but this is
what we're aiming at. Learners, like anyone could
come into my class and say, well, there's no
point in them being involved because they wouldn't
understand it. But let's just assume competence.
Like there is nothing wrong with them sitting
around the table too. And who knows? Like who
are we to say that they're not actually taking
everything in? They just can't communicate it
back. people do i think we forget the understanding
um and being able to communicate outwards are
so different in skills you know the amount of
parents with toddlers that all of a sudden toddlers
start speaking they're like oh my goodness didn't
know they knew all this and you think yes but
they they had that skill and now they have this
skill so they can tell you what they know and
what they've been taking it's such a so this
is what i found with my experience exactly this
is one of my students that have recently got
a aac tablet it's all of a sudden and you're
like well you do know and you know what now we're
looking at every student differently because
we're like you all know you just can't like you've
got all that receptive language or you hear it
you'll see a little smirk like as you're talking
or whatever and you're like you know you yeah
but you know what even if they don't even if
they don't because disability is a thing and
lots of summer children like aren't aware and
that's that's perfectly beautiful and perfectly
yeah um able to be part of that conversation
too like that's okay so sitting down together
deciding right when they do this what do we do
you know so we had a conversation for example
right right nobody stands on the furniture and
i'm like Well, actually, like, sometimes it's
okay to stand on furniture. When is it okay?
So, okay, right. If it's higher than your hip
and it's unstable, we don't stand it. Great.
So if it's lower than your hip and it's stable,
then we can stand it. That's a really clear boundary.
It works because I work with age 4 to 11 in my
class. So we couldn't say a metre tall because,
you know, if it's taller than their hip. and
it's unstable they can't stand on it and then
that's so clear it's so consistent because as
the child grows the boundary grows with them
you know and it makes so much sense isn't so
having really smart targets for yourself you
know think about every eventuality yes of course
we don't want them walking around with food but
what if it's a this day that day whatever you
know is it every day that we don't want them
or is it actually just at lunchtime or is it
just at you know so just keeping it really consistent
trying to think of every eventuality right and
flexible yeah which is no it's true for one it's
true but that's life and flexible and we have
to we talk a lot about flexible seating you know
flexible routines and flexible expectations are
so important and appropriate expectations you
know there is no blanket yeah we decided this
didn't we but actually because at the theme park
we do walk around and eat our uh candy floss
or whatever so actually you're right in this
situation this is okay is that all right with
you yeah okay cool let's go isn't it i call it
consistent compassion so it's just so it's Thinking
in the moment, actually, are we sticking for
the boundaries just for the rigidity and the
control? The control. Like we were talking about
before. Yeah. We're being compassionate in this
moment. And often, yeah, it looks like pillars
of rigid, doesn't it? Actually, children and
humans go in and out of the pillars. But it still
holds them. It's still the baseline. It's still
quite comforting in that. but yeah sometimes
life happens and actually they can stay up later
because it's a this day or yeah we don't have
to have a bath on this wednesday because it's
this and and that is life and that also teaches
children not to be afraid of change as well safe
practice for children you know you were talking
earlier about children that might not be aware
of things but we build awareness that's how it
works we build awareness and we we kind of heighten
awareness so children get to experience something
over and over again they get to learn within
that safe boundary and practice it and we talk
a lot about this when it comes to behavior and
expectations and routines and things what we
practice we make progress in and if we are not
getting the opportunity to practice the skills
within behaviour and practice. At the moment,
I am actually in a special education setting
that's alone. attached to a mainstream school
so I'm seeing every day these mainstream children
with some of them with higher needs than the
children in my class and how that's managed you
know sometimes it's they're really well supported
sometimes they have really great support staff
who are really highly trained and teachers who
completely give them a sense of belonging and
inclusion in their classes and I'm also seeing
the other side of things as I'm seeing children
that are in the corridors I'm seeing TAs without
plans but having to think off the cuff having
to deal with really tricky situations and children
who's ultimately educational but also mental
health needs just not being met so i can see
firsthand the need for this conversation i think
it's so important to have because like yourself
i worked for specialist provision for six years
absolutely lovely but before then i was in mainstream
and I did my degree in sexual education and then
I went into mainstream and then I eventually
went into the politic provision and the need
for inclusion is so important but it's just not
happening in the way we would like it to we have
these amazing centers for children with autism
with almost like high support needs and I think
they do really well like you say it's just absolute
everyday practice this is how we do it we use
our visuals we use all those sensory breaks just
secondhand nature but then in a mainstream setting
it's high masking it's children fall through
the gaps because we have a big thing is assessments
it's grades or they're actually doing really
well educationally so let's not put a plan in
place not focus on those other needs because
they're ticking a box of the grades yeah because
sometimes these children are very high achievers
actually they're your million word readers in
my school they're your top oh my goodness they're
already ready for year six SATs in eight years
old children but it doesn't mean that their needs
and their sensory needs and communication needs
and social needs aren't just as prevalent as
the children in my class that are working at
a very different level academically exactly that
and I think it looks different and people are
like you know if we go to that that old language
of you know, air functioning. Like, what does
that even look like? It's actually not like that.
It's a spectrum. It's, they're still experiencing
the sensory needs and everything, but different.
It looks different for them. And because they
are academic in that way, how we see academia,
it's... but at what cost they're wearing that
mask at the end of the day they're fine in school
i quote but actually at the end of the day they're
coming home they're burning out and have a bigger
four o 'clock explosion because yeah it's like
wow i couldn't actually i couldn't move i i'm
trying to socially interact in the way that it's
meant for me. A lot of young people with autism
will be very highly empathetic as well, which
is another misconception. So they can be really
highly empathetic and all day they're thinking,
I did that wrong, I did this. And when you have
mixed needs as well, someone with ADHD as well
as that, it's just constantly exhausting and
it's almost, in a mainstream setting, it's like,
oh, well, are they choosing that behaviour? well
actually no they they're talking to you behavior
is communication and the biggest communication
and i think then we end up with kids in the corridor
rather than okay what can we do who is it a problem
for if they're sitting there you know with with
a visual timetable with something that meets
them where they're at When we're talking about
the kids in the corridor, we're talking about
literally kids that are educated in cupboards,
under stairs, in miscellaneous rooms, in outside
the head teacher's office, in corridors. They
are taught in corridors and sometimes it is because
they are not coping in the classroom. But I still
feel like children need to be taught in an education
setting. So yes, OK, the lights might be too
bright. It might be too loud. It might be too
busy in the classroom. OK, fine. Then it needs
to be in the child's best interest to be educated
elsewhere. It shouldn't be for because they are
disrupting the rest of the class. It shouldn't
be because for the benefit of the 30 other children
that this child can't be in the class. It needs
to be a benefit for that individual. beneficial
for that individual child to make that decision
ultimately also movement breaks and visuals support
all children absolutely because it can't just
because we're creating it for this one child
to help support them to you know have them as
part of belonging as part of this classroom And
if that's what's needed, then, you know, dimmer
lights, visuals, movement breaks, if that's what's
needed, then that doesn't hinder any other child
from learning. It absolutely doesn't. And, you
know, so often in mainstream I've heard, and
unfortunately in other settings as well, like
they've got like a fiddle toy or something like
that, it's distracting for the other children.
And actually, you know what, kids and teenagers
are actually full of empathy. If you can actually
explain, well, actually, and eventually teach
them to advocate for themselves, I need this
to focus. or this helps me feel calm. If we give
children and young people those skills to advocate
for themselves, more often than not, their children
will go, OK. Exactly. So accepting. So accepting.
And also, I think if they're so easily distracted
from their work tasks, from a silent fidget toy,
then your lesson just isn't that interesting.
Or maybe they need one as well. If a flower doesn't
bloom, you don't change the flower. You change
the environment it's in to help them bloom. And
that is exactly what we're talking about. hear
if the child isn't coping in the classroom if
they're distracting if they're disruptive all
these kind of words that we're hearing we don't
change the child we don't You know, we change
the environment. Now, sometimes that does look
like moving them out into a different class.
Sometimes. Sometimes it looks like maybe using
a quiet area. But also sometimes that just looks
like offering movement breaks, visuals, schedules
and dimming the lights, offering fidget toys.
Encourage, you know, change that environment
in order to better suit their needs. And another
quote that comes to mind is also so -called mild
autism doesn't mean one experiences autism mildly.
It means you experience it. autism mildly you
have no idea how hard they have had to work to
get to where they are and I think that's what
we're talking about isn't it teachers if you
are seeing mild autism you have no idea what's
going on under the surface for this young person
who knows maybe my children in my class are low
maskers because they are less aware or less caring
of what other people think around them they stim
freely they communicate through their body and
through behaviors because they don't have that
maybe awareness or care of what other people
think around them. But the children in mainstream
schools, maybe they do care. Maybe they are aware.
Maybe they have been told that they're different.
Maybe they, you know, have some kind of trauma
in the past of having to, you know, keep it down.
keep their stims down because it's seen as behavior
but that doesn't mean their need isn't just as
high as the children that you see flapping and
rocking and squealing in my class and that's
they need their needs that need meeting it's
not a choice yeah this is it it just looks different
and that's it like so many people i think to
adults included they're like oh i've never really
um thought that i stim and i'll look at i'll
look at their hands and their nails and they're
they're being picked and they'll go well i do
this with my foot and i'm like yeah that That's
how you stim. But then you also, on the backhand
of that, my absolute bugbear is always, everyone's
a little bit autistic. No, they're not. They're
not. You are autistic or you're not. It may be
that you've got high or low support needs, but,
you know, it's actually... a neurological condition
so you either are or you're not we might have
little tendencies so to speak it's like you know
I have a craving for chocolate it doesn't mean
I'm pregnant I just have that tendency right
now and I think and this is all well -meaning
of the community because people are starting
to learn about it all these well -meaning things
but it's like well actually no that really yeah
because ultimately human Autistic traits are
human traits. It is a human trait to have interest.
It's a human trait to feel anxious sometimes.
It's a human trait to feel safest in your own
environment. It is a human trait to feel a little
bit uncomfortable with transitions and change.
Those are kind of butterfly feelings. They're
all normal human experiences. So I think people
hear these things and think, well, I feel like
that. Maybe everyone's a little bit autistic.
I think that's where that comes from, isn't it?
But it's the impact of those feelings that makes
it autism, as well as sensory. It's having all
of it. at varying levels and changing throughout
the day but it is it's having that impact on
your life it is magnified to the point where
it becomes debilitating not for everything not
for everyone it looks different in everyone but
that's what makes it autism that's what makes
it diagnosable so yes you might share similarities
you might share traits if you will for a better
word but that doesn't necessarily mean it's autism
but also as we're talking about it maybe it is
autism maybe you're saying everyone's a little
bit autistic because you're recognizing those
high traits in yourself and you never even thought
that you could be because it looks really different
in lots of people lots of women are only realizing
that they're autistic because their children
are being diagnosed with high support needs and
then they never even knew that you know they
are autistic with low support needs all their
life imagine you're seeing a child for the first
time how do you establish that initial connection
what kind of things are you doing saying thinking
about in order to start that positively yeah
The really first thing that might be a little
bit surprising is that I don't say anything at
first, at least the first 10 to 15 minutes of
interaction with a child, because I just want
to see who they are, what they are interested
in. you know, are they interested in me or not
really? So really kind of realizing that silence
is okay at first and there is no pressure really
to talk or really to communicate with me at first.
And it might look a little bit weird. It's like,
you know, we're expecting the speech therapist
to come in and really get started. And I'm there
just like joining in their play very gently or
just being on the periphery. And I found that
oftentimes it works the best. when I'm this person
who doesn't come in with an agenda a person who
comes in with genuine interest in whatever they're
doing already and not trying to take their attention
away from that thing and I find this first step
is the best one and it really helps me to start
creating that connection it's not the sole thing
that makes us feel connected but it's kind of
like opening the door a little bit and not kicking
them out yeah and scaring them off with demands
that maybe they can't achieve maybe exactly yeah
and I find that so important and I learned that
through a couple of years of practicing because
at first I was really excited and really the
speech therapist who came in like what are you
doing and wow can I do that as well but soon
i realized that's actually scaring the children
my enthusiasm so i learned over the years that
actually silence is best at first so that the
child feels that they are safe this person this
stranger really realizing about myself that actually
i'm a stranger to them at first and becoming
that safe adult in the space that over time they
will start trusting because they will realize
like you said before that um all of the things
that i'm doing are consistent and are not really
threatening their inner emotional safety so that's
kind of the first thing that I really think about
and really kind of accepting their presence and
their interest and following that and I find
that they teach me so much more than I would
ever teach them through that strategy. I loved
it when you said genuine interest and I think
it's really easy to seem interested in it a car
rolling or the wheel turning you know but to
have genuine interest in it and see what it's
a joy that they are getting out of that makes
such a difference they can feel it you can feel
it that is what connection is isn't it it's not
falsehood it's genuine interest in it whether
it's interested in ocean animals or interested
in spinning or interested in i've got a child
in my class that's fingers and we're really interested
what is it is it the fingers moving is it you
know the physicality of it is it that they're
seeing colors through the fingers is it counting
is it songs in his head really interested so
that we can also be genuinely interested in drawing
his joy in that I feel like being genuine is
the biggest part of being affirming and building
that connection isn't it I agree and I love how
you said that it's all that goes in my mind exactly
that like why why is it interesting and can I
be interested in that in a genuine way and really
investigating a little bit being a little detective
as well in the background whilst being silent
and observing Yeah, so physically you are silent
and probably quite still initially. um to not
scare them off but your head's probably working
tenfold trying to work it all out it's so true
and i love how you mentioned that you know staying
a bit still because i don't try to move my body
too abruptly in the beginning just to see what
their sensory regulation is like and really not
to scare them off as well but also not to trigger
any past traumas or anything like that and i
think that's also a big part of making them feel
safe because a lot of the time for children we
are these big humans with big bodies and they
are so tiny and it can be it can feel so con
like i'm condescending almost that we are so
big and so above them so really sitting down
on the floor a bit further away from them being
at eye level or below never above so those are
the little things that over time i kind of gotten
used to doing but I don't realize that they are
little steps towards the connection. They made
me realize right now. I think that's helpful
for people to hear though. We've got mainstream
teachers, new teachers, parents, siblings listening
to this podcast. I think this is the advice that...
people really need to hear is those yeah things
that maybe you do naturally that you've learned
over years to make yourself small to be quite
submissive in a way so that they can lead and
and feel in control of the interaction i think
is fantastic advice because we could have the
best resources the best toys the best you know
all of these strategies but if they're feeling
out of control or scared and not safe as you
said nothing's gonna sit right it's not gonna
feel new affirming is it even if you're saying
the right things and using the right strategies
if you're towering over them or even if you've
got your arms crossed or you know you're very
you're very aware physically actually I feel
when you're in these and especially the initial
stages but actually in all interactions I feel
very physically aware I used to be a dancer And
I do wonder if that helps, actually. I've just
realised that now. Because you're extra aware
of where your body is in space and what your
hands are doing and what your posture is. And
I feel like it's almost like a dance, isn't it?
Especially if we're talking about that initial
interaction, that kind of intensive interaction
way. It kind of is a to and fro conversation
physically, isn't it? And if we're wanting them
to feel in control and safe, well, then we need
to be the smaller, quieter, stiller ones following
their lead, don't we? Yeah, absolutely. And oftentimes
I feel like when I'm like very still and calm
person in their presence, they start to be curious
and they start to like looking into my direction,
be like, who's this person? Why aren't they there?
And there we go. That's communication. And it
just opens up without me doing anything. So it's
just so magical to be a calm person and like
near a small child. You might be the first adult
that they've ever had enter their space and not
put a demand on them ever. That's going to set
you up for intrigue at minimum, isn't it? It's
definitely going to help. It's not going to hinder
that connection building process. Do you often
have other adults in the room with you, like
other teachers or parents? yeah i was just about
to say that i'm almost never alone with a child
so there is always this in the back of my mind
it's not just about what i do where i'm at in
the room but it's a lot about the environment
as well and how safe is the environment in terms
of sensory stimuli in terms of you know are we
all emotionally regulated in the space are there
other children there and are they emotionally
regulated what are their sensory needs it's a
huge dynamic process of trying to figure it all
out try and manage that or are you just managing
yourself Do you try and move things out the way?
Do you try and turn off the lights? Do you try
and hush adults down? How actively are you managing
everybody else in the space? I know you're not
trying to control the child you're working with,
but is there some scope to control everything
else? Or are you just focusing on yourself and
you just being the safe space? I think it depends
on the type of team that I'm working with, but
most of the time, yes, there are discussions
around what does an environment that's communication
friendly look like and what can we do to make
it a safe space at all times, not just when,
you know, I try to create a new connection with
a child. So definitely there is a lot of conversations
happening. I wouldn't say that they are happening
at the moment when I'm doing a session with a
child, but they are happening before and after,
whether that's through informal chats or through
training or through some modeling and coaching.
There's always the ongoing discussion about how
an environment that's affirming looks like. And
through those discussions that are ongoing, it
then makes whatever session. sessions start in
the classroom much easier and more more easier
really to be to be said yeah I suppose because
you all have the same expectation don't you they
might be panicking but nothing's happening maybe
and actually you're quite happy so I suppose
to come in with all the same expectation is helpful
for everyone to know what success looks like
is helpful exactly Now we've come over this social
barrier that actually these loops are now a cool
thing to wear. A lot of people that do come out,
a lot of people that do come out of primary school
when you'd use their fidget toys and they'd have
their elastic bands and things that they became
confident using actually is really beneficial
to them. They stop using them. They just stop
using them. Just that, no, it's, they won't use,
and obviously Senko's will chat to them and say,
you know, you used to really benefit from this.
It'd be great. And they're like, absolutely not
this. No, not using it. Do you find they do other
things, though, like chew their sleeves or fiddle
with pens, chew pens? What kind of things are
you seeing that tells you this young person needs
these tools? There's little tells like that,
like the chewing of the sleeve is one or picking
up their nails is one. But actually in the teenage
years, it's more acting out because it builds
up. Yeah, it builds up because they're not having
that release during the day. It builds up and
then it comes out as behavior, which is obviously
can lead to things like removing from the classroom
and then they're affecting their learning. And
that's actually the start of the spiral. So it's
really hard, as I was saying, to have those conversations
with the kids when they're at that stage where
the most important thing to them is how they
look in school. what their peers and their friends
think about them that's the most important thing
to a teenager at that point it's so hard for
senkos because you just want to say to them let's
do it it's gonna help me used to do it or i know
that i know this isn't the coolest thing but
you know it's and that is probably the biggest
challenge of working with teenagers so with the
loops now they're cool we don't have any problems
but interesting how it's these society norms
that we if I could if I could just click my fingers
and think right I could just make fidget toys
cool I would because it would solve so many so
many challenges that we have but also help the
kids so much because they're so worried about
what they look like as teenagers yeah so I suppose
the difference with loops was that it was seen
as cool because they might have seen influencers
or celebrities wearing them they're expensive
they're a high class like high desired item um
they're seen as being fashionable just like certain
trainers are just like certain brands and designs
are so maybe the sensory toy business is missing
a trick here we need to be like getting the celebrities
um to be wearing big ear defenders and like wearing
using some fidget toys and then maybe yeah if
they're on tiktok the kids will wear them buy
them it's so funny any of these influencer tiktok
dancers need to get on the fidget toys because
it makes my life so much easier and that's so
interesting as well because we actually have
the opposite problem in primary school they are
very much seen as toys rather than resources
so if a child sees a peer fiddling or twiddling
with a fidget or whatever They will want it.
And then the teachers in this weird space where
they want to be affirming to their needs, you
know, maybe they do need it. Who am I to say
they don't need it? To having 33 kids in the
class that half of them are getting something
out of it, or actually technically it'll be 25
% are getting something out of it. And 75 % are
completely distracted because they don't actually
need it in the first place. Yeah, no, that's
the opposite. It's so different, isn't it? Yeah,
no, that's the complete opposite. of my my problem
i i remember being that age though i remember
being in those teenage years and you just live
in your bubble and all you cared about was what
was what was happening after school it matters
so much i just i do feel like secondary school
is really crucial for teaching the important
stuff it really is the academic stuff But I think
completely equal with that is learning about
how to be in a social dynamic, how to make friends,
how to form your identity, how to form positive
relationships and to break negative relationships.
You're learning so much important stuff that
will also benefit you in adulthood too. And it's
when those two things are trying to be together.
I mean, secondary school is an absolute minefield,
isn't it? You've got hormones as well. You've
got, oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, your job is
not for the weak -hearted for sure. It is. I
mean, I do love it. I used to not be a teacher
and then I came into teaching and I do love it.
And I'm glad I chose secondary. It is a crazy
world to work in. It's interesting because I
think I see these, I mean, I see these on Instagram
all the time. When you talked about your classroom
on my podcast a few months ago, we still teach
with kids set in rows. We still teach with kids,
having one exercise book for the whole class.
We still teach with, you know, hands up. And
I see it on Instagram all the time where it's,
you know, how they used to train, sorry, how
they used to school back in the 60s and 70s.
It's exactly the same as what we do now. Even
since I was at school, school has got so much
harder, so much harder for kids. The exams that
they sit and the intensity at which they sit
them has got so much worse. So when did I sit
my GCSEs? 2007? And my science exam was a multiple
choice test. Yeah. Now it's done. It was 25 minutes.
Now it's an hour and 15. And that's just one
subject. And these kids are sitting 11. Wow.
Intensity at which they work. And they, you know,
they come in, they sit at their desk, they listen
to the teacher, they engage in whatever activity
the teacher's set. But it will be at the desk,
most likely, majority of the time anyway, will
be at the desk. And, you know, hands up. write
your notes move on to the next lesson unless
you're doing drama of course but you know english
math science science you can do some practicals
definitely but the curriculum is so heavy that
you do have to do quite a lot of theory work.
What is the benefit of that? Because as a country,
we want better results. And if they feel like
they're going to get better results doing more
practical, keeping kids engaged, then why are
they going the opposite of that? There's such
a breakdown in the understanding. I think, you
know, all the people in charge of, I mean, who's
the education secretary? I mean, it changes so
often. Are they a teacher? Probably not. No,
never. They're a businessman. Yeah. I don't even
follow politics because it drives me insane,
but I can't imagine they're ever a teacher or
someone that stepped into a mainstream 2 ,000
kids secondary educational school. I doubt that
they're that person. They could be an apologies
if I'm wrong. I don't think you're wrong. I just,
it's teachers are under so much stress. Like
when I think of the science curriculum and what
I have to teach kids and it's just a memory game
and a knowledge application game and it's passing
an exam and it's just... Which supports some
people. Some people learn that way. Some people
are very like book -led people. They can retain
information. They can regurgitate information
and they remember it. Does that make them standing
citizens? And I don't know if that's another
question, but they could get through their exam.
But for so many children, whether they've got
a diagnosis or not, that would feel like an impossible
task. I was one of them. I am an incredibly intelligent
person. I have a six -figure business. I am on
it. But I really, really just scraped a C in
my GCSE. And I've only got a degree because I
chose acting, which is all practical, no essay
writing. And because it didn't work for me. But
as an adult, I found success and I feel like
children should have the opportunity to because
the school system is so built around one way
of learning. It's putting people off from further
education and any kind of academia or any kind
of like teaching, for example, like any kind
of career in a way, because they are so tired
of being feeling stupid. honestly that's what
it comes down to yeah no and it is putting people
off further education but then we also live in
a society where a degree is almost expected now
yeah so that's really it really conflicts itself
yeah because you're setting up an education system
which favors a very small percentage of people
and then you're saying well you need a degree
and if you don't have a degree these days people
are like okay you don't get an interview so my
mum used to work in a bank and she had one o
-level now you need a degree to have that job
and that was we're talking what 30 years ago
just it just frustrates me because the conversations
I have to have with kids are what you want to
do in the future you know they're choosing their
GCSEs they're choosing their A -levels choosing
your A -levels determines what universities you're
going to apply for you're talking to kids about
what they want to do in the future every single
one of them expects them they have to get a degree
like they have to There's no alternative and
if you do anything else, then it's a failure.
But university was, again, was created for a
very small, very academic group of people. You
sit in a lecture theatre for two hours and listen
to someone and take notes. How many people could
actually concentrate for that long? And it's
self -motivated as well, isn't it? Yeah, regardless
of your profile, God, that's a long time to sit
there. So again, not everyone was meant to go
to university. It was not meant to be a thing
where everyone was meant to get a degree. We
knew COVID was a perfect example. Everybody who
had that kind of academic job was out of work.
Who did we actually need? Well, I suppose apart
from nurses, bless them. Yeah, yeah. But yeah,
who did we actually need? We needed on the ground
skilled workers that are incredible, that have
such great intelligence. It's just not academic
intelligence. They are practical problem solvers
that are really hardworking and deserve so much
more than often they get. But that's brilliant
minds too. How do you know what system to try?
So we've said there's loads of AAC out there.
We've got a mentally speaking child. What do
we try first? What's a good thing to explore?
I feel like it's a loaded question. It might
be. As a speech therapist, I think because I've
had so many years of experience with familiarizing
myself with systems and getting systems for children
that it's almost like my brain just like... automatically
processes all this information and is like yes
this is the one that i'm gonna try and sometimes
for me to be like well why why am i thinking
that way and being able to explain that is another
thing And it really depends. Sometimes I do like
to look at, okay, is this child in a school system?
Are they in a classroom? Or is there any familiarity
with any sort of program? That shouldn't be the
end -all be -all necessarily for choosing one.
But if the entire classroom is using one program,
maybe it's worth trying that program and seeing
if they're successful. And if they're not, you
know, we can switch gears and try something else,
but they might have better support if we're going
with what everybody, you know, in the classroom
is used to. Definitely. I live in an area where
there's a very high Spanish speaking population.
So I'm always looking at the bilingual aspects
of that. So TD Snap has a really, really great
bilingual component that is you can switch very
quickly between languages. And that is usually
high on my list of priorities. If I have a family
that is bilingual, especially a lot of the families
here, one parent might not even speak English
at all. So if I want. them to use it it needs
to be in the language that they are using at
home as well as the language you know that the
child is going to be experiencing in school also
look at some of the motor planning things as
well too do i feel like this child will benefit
from a more motor planning based system you know
like lamp or it's always snapping back to the
home page that organization of it just based
on some other you know characteristics that that
child has but i typically like to consider a
few different systems and say, okay, I think
this one, you know, might be a good fit for this
child and try it out. But there's been times
when, you know, we're going through this trial
period and I'm like, just, it just doesn't feel
like it's, you know, I feel like there's something
else that we could try. And so I think also knowing
it's okay to switch gears and not be like, well,
this is the one I decided on, you know, that's
why that period exists to try these out and be
like, okay, well, let's switch and see, you know,
what system might work. better and try a different
one and see if we have a different outcome. But
sometimes, honestly, you don't know. And I think
as speech therapists, it's okay to feel like
I don't really know what system is the best one.
And maybe I had this trial for four weeks with
a child and they didn't touch it or look at it
at all. And I have no idea. what to pick. And
at the end of the day, you kind of just have
to use your best clinical judgment and then say,
okay, well, once we get the device, like I sometimes
think there are kids where there is a program
that this is the perfect fit for the child, but
most of the time, the perfect fit is going to
be the one that's implemented by everybody else.
So yeah, ultimately it's, if everyone else is
using it, then that's going to be the benefit.
There's no point having the perfect program and
no one else is using it. Right, exactly. I think
that makes perfect sense. I think that's really
great advice. Yeah, what are they using already?
What is around already? What are their adults
around incompetent with or can access? Because
ultimately, if that's not happening, the child
isn't going to be able to access it either. And
then yeah, motor planning is a really great,
yeah, I hadn't considered that. But of course,
if a child doesn't have the dexterity to single
out a single image on maybe a communication device,
or then maybe symbols on blocks is a good idea.
or objects is a good idea or something like that
so yeah it is individualized isn't it ultimately
and yeah trial and error so have a hypothesis
but then put it to the test rather than deciding
before you've even tried it i think yeah it's
where trials exist exactly what you said have
you ever seen really fast progress with access
to aac and it tends to happen with people who
should have had it much younger. I used to work
in a school system and I mostly worked at the
middle and high school level. It was a specialized
school just for autistic individuals. So I had
kids up to the age of 21 and adults. Some of
these individuals had not been given access to
high tech AAC. And they may have been 14, 15,
16 years old or even older. And for some of those
kids, sometimes it really was as simple as just
like, I'm just going to put this in front of
you and see what you do with it. And I did have
a couple instances where, you know, pretty immediately.
those individuals were putting full sentences
together. Because they'd been using symbols,
books maybe, and they'd been using communication
books, and they'd been using iPads all separately,
then it kind of makes sense to them, I guess.
And they were just older and had more exposure
to language, you know, compared to maybe the
two, three -year -old little ones that we have.
So I have seen that as well, too. I've had some
kids where... Like you said, they are immediately
touching it the second that you put it in front
of them. But maybe it's not in the way that we're
expecting that to look like. And so it kind of
just depends, I think, what that progress looks
like. Having something at the moment where I've
got people in my class who's been using it maybe
for a few months. I'm using a communication device
for about a few months. And he's really great.
If we model to him on a single page, he can navigate
it and finds it again and knows that. It's he's
doing it to request and to comment on like now.
And so he'll find an animal or he'll ask for
a squeeze, for example, but he's really struggling
to navigate between the folders and we're finding
that to be a barrier. Now we can continue showing
and modeling through the folders, but actually
what we're kind of going to is we're doing that
for him and then finding him the page that he
wants. I don't know if that's right. Have you
got any advice for me personally on, on. that.
Two pieces of advice that I normally give people
for this, kind of a caveat behind it is sometimes
it depends on the system. Is the system like
you have to go six folders deep to get something?
Because that is a lot for me as an adult. So
sometimes before even getting to what should
I do, it's looking at the system. That's kind
of where it comes in where when I'm talking with
families, you know, and back to what you had
first asked about it feeling overwhelming, the
more icons we have on a screen, the less navigation
actually requires to go into things. So sometimes
looking at that and seeing like, okay, is this
could we add more icons to each screen, and then
it requires less navigation, but two strategies
that I typically use with kids when I feel like
They're ready to be navigating and we just can't
quite cross that bridge. One strategy I use is
narrating out loud. So if I'm modeling the word
open, I might say actions, page two, open. So
I'm actually narrating exactly which icons that
I am pressing. Or for an animal, things, wild
animals, tiger, saying that out loud and really
slowing down while I'm doing it. And another
strategy, I guess this kind of could fall under
a level of of prompting. And I think being careful
to know like, okay, this child is really trying
to express this. And this depends on the system.
But if there's a search feature, a good search
feature, so pro local to go, really anything
outside touch chat, the touch chat search feature
often does not lead you the easiest path to get
to a word. For the other programs, sometimes
what I've done with some kids is search the word.
And then when you click on the word, it actually
will highlight it and black everything else out.
And I will then encourage them, you know, to
be able to walk through that motor plan. And
there's nothing else on the screen that can be
kind of throwing them off. But sometimes just
getting over that initial difficulty with it.
But those are the two strategies. That's really
great advice. Yeah, we use Proloquo. So using
the search function. So if you search it, and
then you click on which word, it'll highlight
the motor plan pathway to get there. And I've
had a lot of good success with that with kids.
Social media is a great connector, as you said
before that, of that's a great idea or even all
just finding it difficult together. No fix, just
finding it difficult together. Just someone else's
message at 4am where you're thinking you're the
only person awake in the world and is really
lonely and really tired. And actually when you
then sort of on there chatting to someone who
is in exactly the same situation, like for example,
so Noah has melatonin. And, I mean, to be fair,
whether it helps or not, who really knows? I
think it does help a little bit. It helps you
get to sleep. It doesn't keep you asleep, I think,
is the thing. No, exactly, and that's the biggest
thing. But then we got the slow -release tablets,
and I was like, Noah having ARFID and only eating
two foods, I was like, how am I going to get
a tablet into him? But, again, power of social
media. Someone showed about, like, using a syringe
with water. I was like, well, a syringe isn't
going to work with Noah because, again, that's
too much demand. In the end, I was like, right,
we're going to... going to put the little because
they're like micro tablets into his straw in
his drink and now he drinks it no problem at
all doesn't even know it's there just sucks it
up but i wouldn't have even thought about that
had i not been that post on social media and
actually that's been life -changing because i
would not have been able to get that tablet into
him had he i not kind of thought of a way in
his drink so i think and it's just like those
kind of everyday little tips that actually have
such a big difference because we well we definitely
now know about the different areas of autism
and like kind of the stereotypical what to do
and how to help but you quite you quite often
find that actually in the real life where every
child is different neurodiverse or not that actually
they don't necessarily work for your child so
it's just about kind of getting as many tips
as you can. And sharing. Yeah, and sharing. And
so at the end of the month, actually, I'm starting
this kind of parent support group for parents
of neurodivergent children. And that is literally
all about just getting together, like crying
together, whether that's free laughter or kind
of... tough times sharing tips like everyone
will be at different kind of stages of their
journey I've kind of had like invaluable support
from some of they're actually parents at the
school I work at who have really helped when
I've been through the HCP process with Noah and
like until you've done it you don't know these
things so then actually and then it's too late
because you probably aren't going to do it again
I hadn't even heard of what any HCP was right
this is it still yeah you understand what it
all is luckily I've done it Yeah. But that's
true. The support network can be fantastic. Is
it in person or virtual? Well, it's definitely
like, so this will be the first meetup and we
are going to do this in person, which will be
kind of for Colchester based families in Essex.
But then I don't know. I don't know where it
will go really, whether it will go into kind
of doing virtual events. I'll probably do some
like locally and then some virtually and whether
it will be just socialising or whether potentially
I'll do some kind of sharing of information as
well in the long term. Or like a chat group or
something that you can just informally message.
Exactly. I just think like the power of kind
of community and finding people in a similar
situation to yourselves, that's definitely helped
me more than anything. And I think like as a
dad, like that isn't something you agree. Well,
I was going to say, females are so good at that.
It's social media and building connections. How
do you feel, Stuart? Do you feel like that would
be helpful to you or that kind of social media
stuff? Because there's not many fathers out there.
To be perfectly honest, I'm still a bit like,
whoa, I don't know whether I fully commit to,
I don't know. I guess if I'm being completely
honest, it comes down to kind of an acceptance
that my child is not neurotypical. There's still
that, if I give in, if you like, then that's
all over and I'm sort of losing sight. That being
said. I 100 % I kind of second feed everything
that this one gets yeah but it's tough I can't
quite explain it but as a dad you're kind of
macho and you want the best and you want this
and that and you want your son or daughter to
be the best and then you get hit with this wave
of autism and neurotypical and yeah global delay
yeah it's like my god what what what is my child
going to turn up? Are they going to have a normal
life? And it's kind of... And no one can answer
that. So I've worked with 400 plus children,
lots and lots that everything you're describing
now, I can kind of imagine it. And I still can't
tell you what could or couldn't be because...
Their journeys are so different. They say, don't
they, you meet one autistic person, you meet,
you've known one autistic person. Every single
child I have is not similar to each other in
any, or in some ways, but they really are unique.
I'm not just saying that. And some have gone
on to go to college and have jobs and live semi
-independently or independently and have relationships.
And others haven't. Others live in assisted living
or live at home or live with siblings. Some of
them volunteer. here some of them don't they
have a PA and they go out for the day they were
so and and they all looked like Noah at five
yeah so I cannot I can't answer the future just
as much as any other person can and I don't know
if that gives you comfort or not it's just it
just is that's the hardest thing like it's a
journey for Noah and it's a journey for us and
it's just accepting it and whether you embrace
it full -on straight away or you gradually kind
of come into it and learn and take little bits
i think for a guy going to a group is really
quite like frightening yeah whether it's a neuro
whether it's divergent parenting or whatever
like you just would like normally stereotypical
isn't it like the the dad is normally full -time
work And then the mum is the one who's part -time.
I know that's not always... And you've got your
friends and... She was always like, I've got
loads of friends. They're great. I don't need
any more. But it is true. Like, they don't get
it. No. They don't. And they try, but they can't.
Yeah. And I think that's, for me, why I'm like,
I don't think, and it's no reflection on them
as friends, but, like, parenting a neurotypical
child, you just can't get it. Because, actually,
it is... unbelievable some of the things that
happen and we're like oh my god what is happening
like yeah I think that's probably been our the
thing with families throughout the like journey
of Noah's life so far is that people can kind
of suggest things or like you can go to different
things but until you are ready as a person and
until you've almost got to that I think you like
do accept that no Noah's autistic yeah yeah but
equally probably would like to change that, like,
if we're being honest. And I think acceptance
is constant. I don't think acceptance is ever
finished. No, for sure. I think with every day
and moment, acceptance has to... grow and because
so much is unknown how could you ever now accept
who he's going to become when you don't know
what that is so i think it happens daily yearly
moment by moment yeah situation by situation
is that acceptance is you know first of all not
accepting and then growing and then accepting
and then there's a new situation not accepting
i think it's consistent acceptance i think that's
another thing that people don't realize it's
just constant yeah definitely and i think it
is like you hit the nail on the head it's just
so hard because you just don't know you don't
know what's coming and like i always say we spoke
about this before yeah i was like i would love
a crystal ball like a time like see right, this
is where we're going to get to. But I don't know
whether I would. I don't think you would like
that, but I would love that because I would then,
I think anyway I'd like it, but I'd then know,
I would know what we're working towards, like
I would know the end goal and then I'd feel like
I would then be easier able to accept that. Whereas
Stuart's like, oh God, no, I'd hate that. I wouldn't
want to like see into the future. But yeah, it
is tricky. But I think also when you are so exhausted
and I have definitely been through this stage.
I didn't want to connect with people because
I was just so tired you had nothing left and
I didn't have anything left and I still definitely
go through times of that where I'm like oh I'm
so mentally drained it's a huge effort yeah go
and put on your kind of happy face and also they're
putting on their stuff onto you and you're only
just managing your own stuff that's that kind
of weird social thing isn't it of like oh god
yeah but they might want me to help them and
i can't do that through my job like i'm not saying
but i've done the qualification and i've done
kind of the acting role for a bit as well um
so a lot of families at work if they do have
a child who it has additional needs they will
come and talk to me so i do that through my job
which then probably means that i find it easier
like in my personal life too whereas i guess
like in your role it's nothing at all to do with
kind of neurodiversity or like parenting so actually
that's so different that that is kind of far
removed from like your norm maybe and that's
why it isn't necessarily something that you find
but then equally we have had conversations where
she was like oh like they just totally don't
get it or it's really sad because like the guys
are talking about their children doing this like
and that's so different to Noah like bikes wasn't
it yeah yeah like both of my good friends have
got similar age kids to Noah and they were talking
about riding a bike or and it was like I was
just like I'm just so far removed from this conversation
because yeah Yeah, and those conversations are
going to sting, no matter how much you love and
accept your child. Nothing on them or nothing.
It's just that reminder, isn't it, of what milestones
he may or may not reach, and he certainly isn't
reaching now. And it is, I think I almost, although
I say I'm really accepting, sometimes I just
don't think about it. Like, that's probably my
coping as well. I can't think about it too much.
um on a like personal mummy level because that's
too emotional and too tricky but actually i can
think about it on like uh not on a professional
level but almost on a like so you go into your
like this is how we're going to do this is what
we're going to do this is what our strategies
we've got to use i do that don't i just break
down yeah i think so too and sometimes it's like
oh that's like a really like matter of fact matter
of fact way of thinking and talking about it
but i'm not trying to do that i think it's just
my coping mechanism yeah That's it for this week's
episode. I hope you enjoyed taking a look back
at some of my favourite moments from Series 1.
If you would like to be on my podcast for Series
2, then please get in touch. You can email me
at oursensorykids at gmail .com or just send
me a DM on social media and I'd love to have
you on. See you next time.