Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
So these episodes are going to be a little bit
different over August. We are going to re -look
at my favourite moments from the podcast from
Series 1. We've had such amazing conversations
this year and thank you so much to everybody
who has been on the podcast. You've been incredible.
And thank you so much for all the listeners for
your support so that we can continue this for
Series 2 from September. I hope you enjoy taking
a look back at... yeah my favorite moments i've
just seen a message from a parent whose pupil
is actually starting in my class in september
and they said um should i write a list to tell
you guys about my child so yes i send home and
this is relevant for everybody i send home a
happiness audit it's on my google drive but anyone
that wants it i'll send it to you and it's basically
a what makes your child happy audit it's the
first thing we give so it's what sensory experiences
make your children happy what foods make your
children happy what environments make your children
happy what people make your children happy what
you know just what does heaven look like for
your child because then we can refer to that
You know, if we want to support a child coming
in from the car or, I don't know, anything, anything
throughout the day, we can look at the happiness
audit and think, oh, yeah, actually, this environment
is not ideal for them. Let's dim the lights.
Let's put on rock music. Whatever it is that
makes them happy, it just might help. It just
gives us a clue. So for this one parent, you're
lucky enough to have these. It's amazing. But
for any other parent or teacher that thinks they
would benefit from that. um i'll send it to you
so i'll save this obviously to my grid and comment
below and i will just make sure that that's an
automatic like from the perspective of a parent
to know that you do that and again that you generally
care and are going to be supporting them with
what makes them happy that it's just so incredible
to hear um it's so brilliant yeah but yeah yeah
so if you're yeah teacher i just i think it's
how can i It's currency. Happiness is currency
in the special ed class. Like, how can I assume
that a child like Ethan will want to join our
group area if it's not motivating to him and
doesn't hit those buttons, you know? Whereas
if it would be as easy enough as being like,
oh, okay, three of our kids like cats. Yeah.
Okay, awesome. I'm going to pick a story the
first week about cats then. Like, it's so easy
once you know. And, like, Ethan loves, um, one,
two, three, four, five, once I caught a fisher.
At the moment, like, he loves counting it. doing
it all on a day of saying that if we told you
that and you could think you could meet ethan
and you could that could be the song you sing
exactly exactly or in maths like when we pick
the music song we can because we do choice boards
we can just make sure that's an option because
without knowing that that was his favorite song
we might even not have that as an option and
then even if he could understand the choice board
or whatever we're limiting him yeah so the more
we know the more opportunities the better and
and going back to your question of how long does
it take to get to know a child the more we know
we can build those connections that trust And
it surprised me how quickly you said, but that's
amazing. And obviously you're with them for such
a long period of time in the day. And our whole
job is to get to know them. Those first weeks
are literally, that is what we do. Building trust.
Yeah. It's a lot of intensive interaction just
to start building that trust. Yeah. Share the
same language and getting them to know the class,
you know, within their own, not trying to stretch
them too far. It's a real weird balance. Yeah,
definitely. Especially when you've got them all
doing it at once. Yeah. But the more we know
about a child, the better. Don't think that sending
him in with four pages of handwritten information
about him is too much. If you can't do that,
don't. fine but if you want to don't think oh
my god i'm not please don't because i'd rather
too much information than not at all and even
if i can't read it that first day because it's
a bit hectic yeah if it's in front of this book
stapled in there at least we can refer to it
definitely i think that one more question i was
going to ask actually if that's okay yeah of
course Just sort of what we can, is there anything
we can do kind of during the summer? So for all
the parents who have their children starting
at special school to just kind of support Ethan
a little bit. So we know I think one of his goals
is to sort of be able to put his coat on and
off. Is that kind of useful to do with him? Sometimes
it depends on, like some of them might give you
specific goals, like some of them to work on
specific things. I would say just really focus
on the... transition photos or videos that you've
got so if when next time you visit video him
in the space in the classroom if you're allowed
to yeah or at least take photos of the adults
and key workers he's working with the entrance
door like really important like steps of how
he's gonna get there i think it's probably the
most important thing because your job is to get
him through the door and that's sometimes hard
to i mean it sounds like Nathan's doing brilliantly
but for some parents sometimes just getting them
into the car dressed in a different uniform there
was so much that i think focus on that focus
on practicing uniform wearing on and off no pressure
new shoes practice wearing new shoes because
sometimes they're a bit hard and horrible aren't
they so wearing new shoes without any pressure
of going anywhere make it a bit of a fun game
maybe practice the car journey parking in the
car park and then going home again all those
things actually That's probably the most important
thing because your job ends at the gate and then
we, over summer, we are thinking about from the
gate, right, okay, what's learning going to look
like? But if you can get them to the gate on
time, like wearing their uniform, whatever it
is, that is awesome. That is awesome. Brilliant,
okay. And it's so good to hear as well. you saying
that our job ends and then you take over. I think,
you know, for us, we've had a really funny kind
of childcare history of like, no, she's not meeting
his needs and stuff. So to just know that he's
going to be somewhere where he's fully supported,
he's understood, he's accepted and his happiness
is the main goal. You know, just so brilliant
to just be looking forward to that and just sending
him kind of safely sort of on his way. And the
more prepped he is, the less anxious he'll feel
and the better day he'll have. Yeah, and if you've
practised over the summer and you're really concerned
about, I don't know, like I've heard some awful
things about some schools making children wear
shirts and ties and I don't know, specific things.
Like some schools do. Like it is okay as a parent
to voice your concerns because you, again, you're
the expert of your child. If you feel like them
wearing a shirt is going to hinder them from
even entering the building, in my mind, that's
exclusion. And it's absolutely okay to voice
that and to keep fighting for that. For me, happy,
well, my headteacher hopefully isn't watching.
I'm happy a kid's up in their pyjamas. I couldn't
care less. If they're through the gate and they're
happy and regulated, I'll work with it. Yeah.
well but hopefully i think i think probably as
a parent i probably expect specialist schools
to be a bit more lenient with that but as you
said if there's ones that are kind of forced
yeah not always no not always and also like sometimes
it's we want we want children sometimes it helps
having uniform because then they know it's a
school day or a home day you know like for some
children it's actually very important so often
we kind of go for a mixture of we have a white
t -shirt rather than a white shirt and they wear
the school jumper and they wear jogging bottoms
like that that kind of thing is quite typical
in our class so they are part of the school they've
got the logo but it's a little bit yeah but i
mean that's it's so school it really is school
specific some other schools wouldn't yeah It's
just up schools. But also, if your gut feeling
says that that is hindering your child from entering
the building, I would say that's an easy fix.
It would be a red flag, wouldn't it? Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. And I've always been special ed,
so I am naive to what's realistic. So do you
have three realistic resources that you could
share with us or support systems that mainstream
teachers can start in their classrooms to support
their either autistic or neurodivergent students
in their class this year? We've just started
a new year. What would you suggest they looked
into? Three is really hard. Okay, sorry. I was
trying to think about it earlier. And I'm a talker,
so trying to get me to just say three, that's
really hard. And it is really hard to think of
three main things. But I think one of the biggest
things is what you can do for the whole class
to benefit the children who really need something
specifically. For example, if we're talking about
children who need regular brain and movement
breaks, then hit the whole class with that. because
you're quite often going to be a teacher on your
own with 30 children and and you're not just
looking at like neurodivergent children in terms
of who you need to support you might have children
in there with no english and you might have children
in there who um coming from a really challenging
kind of home situation and need your emotional
support as well during the day so there is a
lot to do and so for any teachers out there like
please know that when especially on my page it's
never about teacher bashing it's kind of is the
issue is the system and and i'm all for changing
the system but right now we have to change it
in the classroom because if that comes it's not
going to come soon so get it from the inside
out almost bottom up like be that way so I think
yeah what you can do for the whole class so like
in New Zealand it's incredible and they've been
doing this so many years that they start every
day with some form of movement whether it's dance
or you know aerobics or whatever and it's just
like part of every school and so often I find
that one of the frustrations with parents is
that everything is different in every school
and it is down to the teachers so any teachers
out there and It's almost no excuse for why a
child can't have brain and movement breaks really
regularly. Brain breaks can be the simplest thing.
Let's see, have you got some examples of what...
Because often I share... like what i do like
exercise boards and everything or weighted blankets
thing oh we haven't got so could you share some
like realistic mainstream i think like a really
short brain break would be right everyone copy
me and you just be starting to do different things
so you're switching trying to get them to really
concentrate and it becomes silly you're just
and you can get them to stand up and do it or
you can do it i do it when they're on the carpet
like pens down eyes on me let's go and we do
this for like a few minutes just anything you
know five and they'd shout out how many fingers
i'm holding up really simple things like that
that you can do several times throughout let's
say in english might be an hour long like break
it up with little brain breaks then you put your
movement break the brain breaks can be done when
they're sitting on the carpet or the table movement
breaks obviously you need to get up and move
so when they're going you could do it maybe once
on the carpet When they're going from the carpet
to their tables, do a movement break then, which
also is kind of a brain break. So you're doing
that. So a quick Simon Says is a really good,
obviously not Simon Says, you do it as a teacher.
That's a really fun one to do as well. Sometimes,
yeah, in the middle. And then if you've got kind
of a 15, 20 minute section of the lesson where
they're at their tables working, do something
after 10 minutes. So in the middle of that, again.
Pens down, eyes on me, right, stand up. And then
we do something just really physical. And to
begin with, at the start of the term, it takes
a while. It's really hard to rein everyone back
in. So these teachers that are hearing this,
don't just try it once. I'm never doing that
again. It probably is chaos because it's something
they might have never done before. But trust
me that the more you do it, it just becomes routine.
And so then when I would do it, everyone would
know and I did it in the middle of Ofsted you
know I'm not I wouldn't be scared of that because
I knew everybody knew kind of what happened we
did this and then right everyone back into it
oh yeah renewed kind of right now I've got my
idea I'm going to go again and so I think those
sorts of things when you've got you know especially
reports coming in saying this child needs regular
brain breaks movement breaks do it for everyone
The child will benefit from that, especially
younger children should be moving. So I think
those are the things you can do, but also make
games in your lessons when you're doing maths
or something in input. Try and get movement games.
So like I used to do splats where we'd run up
and splat the board. I'd get them writing on
whiteboards because actually if every child has
a whiteboard and they're all writing and then
you hold it up as quick as you can or we'd tell
each other, tell the person next to you and then
let them go around the table. or things like
that that you can do anything that you can do
that is just breaking up listening i'm talking
you're listening everyone's sitting no like that's
just not going to be the most inclusive way opening
neurodivergent children so i think if you can
meet the needs of whether it's two five however
many in your class you do it on a whole class
level you're actually then ticking the boxes.
So everyone's benefiting, aren't they? No one's
missing out then because, and it's almost like
you're catching it before they really, really
aid it. You're giving those regular input every,
you said about 10 minutes, so every, you know,
half lesson, those regular inputs. It means it
never gets to dysregulation. It never gets to
the point, it shouldn't get to the point where
they're in absolute crisis and you're having
to evacuate the classroom or you're having to,
which, you know, just focus on this one. Yeah.
And that's like my principle in pretty much all
my coaching as well is, you know, what can we
do before? It's all about proactive strategies.
What are we doing before our children are reaching
meltdowns? What can you do before they become
dysregulated? So have these. regulation resets
all the time so that you're just letting that
pressure valve out like religion being reactive
and thinking oh totally i think you need a movement
break it's too late they're already in christ
parenting like how do we parent when a child's
having a meltdown they're already in it it happened
before it happens before you do it yeah it's
all the stuff beforehand and it's the same in
schools like don't wait till anyone is dysregulated
before you put in support And so I think it's
that thing, assume that they're all going to
be dysregulated or they're getting there. Assume
they're frustrated right now. Because if you
assume that they're getting there, then you can
put things in. And even if they're not, it doesn't
hurt. It really doesn't hurt. And, you know,
same with my son. If he's not angry, then I'll
still be giving him opportunities to let out
anger. showing me any act you know these are
things this is like proactive parenting or teaching
never gets to the point where it's unmanageable
for his body um i found it on on inset day i
don't know if any other teachers here found that
but we were sitting for 45 minutes at a time
and then we had a break 45 minutes and i thought
my goodness i am really struggling like after
15 minutes it was i um i mean i'm neurodivergent
anyway but i i could look around me and i could
see people like playing with their scrunchies
wiggling then um me like at 15 in their chair
i thought we've had enough and we're adults how
are we asking these five -year -olds or 11 year
olds to sit for such a long time we need to be
practicing what we preach or i see those inset
days don't we so if you're um leading on those
trainings we kind of need to be offering that
don't we as well and i think I did a talk a little
while back with a child psychologist and we were
talking about like diagnosing the environment,
not our children. Actually, I think so much of
the dysregulation we see isn't necessarily to
do with anything other than what we're asking
our children to do. And if we're asking them
to sit for an hour, you know, in a classroom
without moving, that's really unrealistic. So
and I think if you if you look at it and in a
lot of the sort of British Dyslexia Association
websites and the National Autistic website will
sort of talk about these reasonable adjustments.
And when they talk about kind of movement or
brain breaks, it will be suggested about 10 to
15 minutes because it's not just the children
who need to move for dyslexic pupils. It will
be the kind of mental exhaustion and fatigue.
experiencing after 10 or 15 minutes that everyone
kind of needs that reset get up move and i think
if you look at your lesson in those chunks and
kind of it becomes so much easier to work that
into so that's kind of one of my biggest things
and i guess this goes with it good autism practice
is good practice everybody will benefit from
movement breaks everybody will benefit from having
something predictable everyone will benefit from
having visuals in the room even if it's not a
need it's a want often you see and i had a visual
timetable up to the whole class you know then
it benefits again it benefits everybody okay
okay this is a i think this is a good one this
is more of a behavior related one but i always
see behavior as communication so i feel like
it is communication my top on this morning my
behaviorist communication top okay yeah so this
question is I have a child you'll know why I
picked this one I have a child who's become more
violent and is hitting out they are they were
having some time out for a consequence but I
find they just escalate not sure what to do and
any tips would be amazing so first of all my
like i get this in my dms all the time like what
do i do and my always my first thing i say is
behavior is communication what do you think the
behavior is telling you so if they're acting
more violent hitting out and if um time out so
i'm assuming i'm hoping it's quiet time and not
they're sitting on a chair i hope let's assume
it's quiet time in a room and calm down time
We don't do sitting on chairs and naughty steps
anymore. That's not what we do. We don't do that.
No. So let's hope it's calm down area or calm
down corner or something like that. I'm not even
going to call it a consequence though. Anyway,
that's them sitting still, isn't it? That's them
being quiet and sitting still. Now, if sitting
still is making them more dysregulated, so their
behaviour is escalating, then that means why
don't you try the opposite, I would suggest.
So definitely when they're already being violent
and hitting out, I would be encouraging them
to get moving and get outside and move their
bodies. But ideally, it would be even before
that starts. So think about what the triggers
are, what makes them violent and hitting out.
Is it losing a game? Is it a busy environment?
Is it when there are lots of people in a closed
environment? Is it when there's bright lights?
There'll be something, there'll be some kind
of trigger because no child is naturally like
that when they are calm and regulated and feeling
safe and secure and understood and all of those
things. yeah so there'll be some kind of reason
ideally you would reduce that reason and those
demands so that they there was less likely to
happen if you couldn't avoid it i would be offering
regular movement breaks and sensory breaks because
obviously what this child is needing and praise
for doing that as well um and and yeah get away
from this kind of time out and consequences quite
old school thinking actually i feel like that's
it's a lot of i think because it's a lot of background
in the 90s like or lots of us grew up in the
90s that was kind of what was encouraged that
was how it was that was how a child um managed
like behavior management was sorted lots of the
teachers now go back to that yeah and it's not
actually done like that now is it's much more
about um seeing what the triggers are and trying
to reduce those giving regular sensory breaks
and and calm down breaks rather than it being
a consequence actually being something the child
might request you know I need a break that's
encouraged and that's actually praised that they
might need a break from that um yeah I don't
know if you have anything anything to add no
I was just going to say about unpicking that
behavior what why I you know why does that behavior
happen but like we don't like in my setting especially
my classroom we really tried to not react which
is really tricky and actually it takes a long
time to because it's almost like an instant react
it's like it isn't it yeah um not reacting but
trying to not reacting in a negative way but
trying to think what what are they like generally
what are they communicating yeah they're trying
to gain my attention okay and then not in if
it's quite big behaviors it's not about teaching
them the skills in that moment because if they're
not regulated they're not ready to learn yeah
so you know and i think them safe in that moment
isn't it yeah and i think We've come a long way
with different things and I think one of the
big things is definitely not seeing like giving
them a reward, not seeing it as oh I'm giving
them a reward for that behaviour. You're supporting
their regulation. You are stopping them from
becoming even more dysregulated or even more
heightened. Actually, you're trying to meet their
needs. Yeah, I hear that a lot. Because we're
attached to a mainstream school and I hear that
a lot. But they're just being rewarded for their
negative behaviour. You're just reinforcing their...
their bad behavior like and it's a real concern
like i totally get what it looks like i get that
this child has thrown this chair and you've removed
them and spent some lovely quality time together
and given them a massage like i get what that
looks like i can see why somebody that doesn't
understand that so yeah let's just do it again
he'll just throw a chair again and then he'll
get a massage like yes but you have to remember
we're an education setting we're not a behavioral
change unit we are here to educate them and this
moment they need to be regulated they need to
understand that maybe i don't need to throw chairs
maybe i need to just ask for a squeeze and a
break and and that the learning in that moment
i agree and actually i'll hold my hand up and
say a few years ago i see it yes but right they
just done had that negative behavior towards
the other child quite physically aggressive and
now they're getting a reward yeah they need a
concert like it but i think being able to reflect
as a practitioner and say and you know you change
your practice and then actually implementing
those communication strategies at the right time
teaching how to gain attention properly teaching
how to actually For example, a good one's always
pushing. I always think, why are they pushing?
Are they pushing for attention? Is it sensory?
Is it to do with their hands? Is it a full body
movement? We're really, really lucky at my school.
We've got some amazing spaces and we've got a
room called the balance room and it's got some
like suitable for like appropriate climbing,
you know. So it's being able to. climb and let
out energy in a school that doesn't have those
amazing things there are things you can do so
like we've got we've got car tires in our playground
car tires the most amazing sensory resource they
are free because garages need to pay to get rid
of them so if you're in doubt and you don't have
no budget get a load of sensory car tires really
great heavy work um they you're you're tiring
your arms out so they're getting rid of all that
like excess fidget energy so you can lift them
and build a tower you can push them over and
it's really satisfying to push over yeah black
everywhere because there's water in them and
they they're really heavy and hard to push you
can roll them you can sit in them and it's free
so don't just think just because i haven't got
any budget that you can't do this stuff because
you absolutely can um you can push against a
wall you can do deep pressure squeezes with each
other they all on themselves you know there are
lots of free ways of doing this so i don't want
that to be a reason it's just about educating
on the free ways of doing this isn't it yeah
and also sort of like wrapping themselves up
like rolling like you said like a sausage roll
so you know you hold the blanket roll yourself
up like a sausage roll and it's like that tight
you know sometimes it doesn't have to be an expensive
weighted blanket even even though they're not
as expensive now and they're much more affordable
but it can literally just be a blanket yeah and
be bottled like you would a newborn um for the
same reason they feel comforted by that and grounded
um even uh carrying water two liter water bottles
in a backpack and at the front that And again,
it's a really free resource. You'll already have
had those things in your cupboard and it just
grounds their shoulders and grounds them. I used
to, when they used to have massive Argos catalogues,
they don't do them anymore. But I used to send
my child on a job to the teachers upstairs or
whatever with these Argos books. It sounds really
mean now, but it really helped. You know, you'd
have two or one Argos book spread on the side
of them, just for them kind of heavy lifting
work. Again, another free. acting do that just
grounds his children yeah um before i move on
from this one i just wanted to make it really
clear that when we're saying ignore minimal behavior
is what we actually mean so by ignoring we're
not reacting verbally we're not even reacting
with our face but we can still be there to ensure
they're safe so what i do sometimes is if my
child is standing on really high furniture which
happens sometimes as high as my shoulder a little
five -year -old will be as high as my shoulder
on this on this walk now if i was to say that's
like so exciting he'd start flapping he'd start
jumping and I'm like no I really don't want him
to be doing that so what I do is I stand next
to him side by side so I'm not face on I'm not
being confrontational I'm side by side I'm there
if he falls I feel safe and I'm there if he wants
to come down with an open hand like this so that
he knows I'm there if he wants to get down and
I just wait yeah sometimes I might say um like
I'm here or down please maybe often i am just
there and i just wait and i make it a little
bit boring because yeah it's not that exciting
up there and then as soon as he is down and safe
then i take him to some way that he can climb
safely whatever that might be um so why when
we say ignore minimal behaviors it's not like
literally walking on and ignoring and i don't
want people no i don't want people to hear that
and think because i knew what you meant but i
don't want people to think yeah it's hard isn't
it when you kind of naturally will say things
and it probably comes across like oh no but yeah
definitely not ignoring oh they're crying i'm
just gonna just let them crack up with it no
no no you're there you're just not reacting isn't
it and so somebody's thrown something really
heavy obviously you don't ignore that in the
sense of obviously you remove that where the
object was thrown obviously you check that the
child that they threw it out or whatever it is
okay absolutely yeah but what you don't do is
it's become confrontational with the actual child
no that's what it is isn't it yeah and i think
it's also about like giving appropriate attention
because for some children all at any attention
whether it be negative positive that's just they
just want the attention but again it goes back
to teaching in their in the appropriate time
teaching them how they can gain attention for
an interaction or whatever Do you think you would
ever teach a mainstream? You know, I once went
for an interview. So I was 10 years into the
last school that I was at. And I was like, I've
had the same class for five years and the same
class and then a different class for five years.
I was kind of just done and I needed something
a little bit more. I didn't want to be senior
leadership team and that was the only next progression.
I just kind of like, I just needed something
extra. So I went for this early years job and
in the interview, there was these two little
kids at the front that were like, you know, doing
all the stuff. There and then I was like. okay
cool picked you two out like i could enjoy this
because like there's still some kids that i know
there and they kept trying to show me the um
heist achievers books like to impress me like
like look at this book and i was like yeah yeah
that's cool but what are you doing for these
two how are you meeting there yeah there and
then when i asked that question i was like yeah
i would be doing a disservice to the other court
children in the class like i would I wouldn't
have high enough expectations. I wouldn't be
pushing the high achievers. I would be nurturing.
So I just knew there and then I was like, this
isn't for me. And I just said that I was really
honest with her and just said, I would need so
much training. It'd be like starting again. so
different and i wouldn't i wouldn't push your
learners like you want me to so yeah i i didn't
i didn't take the job and then since then i i
haven't bothered i think that just was my answer
i i through and through i i couldn't i couldn't
authentically do it i don't yeah i think it's
um i i think that i think you i do think that
every teacher should experience a special setting
at some point i know that's it's difficult i
think you learn so much yeah my idea of my feed
actually is to try it because it's so secret
isn't it no it's so hidden like we've literally
got a lock on the door like none of the other
teachers in my school come in um interesting
well it's because my learners like they just
don't really cope with people coming in and out
and stuff yeah so they see us in assembly they
see us at playtime but actually learning like
I guess they just assume that we just, I don't
know. I don't know what they assume we do, but
that's what my account is about. I asked my head
teacher if I could showcase the amazing things
that we do. I'm so proud of our class and what
we do. I kind of just want to share it. I'm like,
why are we hiding this? I want to share it with
the world. So luckily she was very trusting and
let me go for it. I think she's a little bit
shocked about how well it's done. Put some away,
to be fair. yeah what happens behind closed doors
though and how lonely it is because so many people
still have the idea of like institutions and
like i don't know like trying to correct behavior
and stuff like it it's not that at all it's a
very fun loving nurturing gorgeous place that
we have so much fun um yeah and this is it i
think it's like definitely for the children in
my class I mean like I it's really funny really
because mainstream I know mainstream is totally
different but like after like say a half term
or something you'd get back to the class and
depending what kind of class you had the kids
would be it would take them a while to get back
into it but in my class they're like they're
just so excited to be at school and like the
parents would message me and they'd be like um
you know I'd I'm always quite cautious about,
like, you know, asking kids and parents about
their half terms and stuff. But they were all
just like, they were so excited to get on the
bus. They were so excited to get to school. They
want to get their school uniform. Yeah. Yeah.
And I do really, I have really felt that, to
be fair. And it, like, the class feels like a
family. That's the other difference, isn't it?
That is the other difference. You are so intimate,
romantic with the children and their family.
It is so deeper, so much deeper. um in my mind
do you have your kids for more than one year
as well um I don't know to be honest because
this is my first year though I don't really know
I think they do start sort of like seeing who
goes where and we have like the early years and
then the lower school then the upper school and
the sixth form so I think it's quite flexible
yeah I'm pretty easy to be fair like I've taught
i thought like through year one to like year
six or like so i don't really mind like yeah
i think the age of the kids that i've got so
they're like year four to six i think that's
probably like my mate yeah yeah that is a nice
age i had my like i said i like my last two classes
for five years each and after five years you
are so close to the family you know their names
you know like their grandparents you know everything
yeah so intense that relationship which is really
wonderful and it's something that like mainstream
teachers probably would never get to experience
is that like family um yeah it's really lovely
and for the most part we're some of the only
people in the world that understand their child
like they do so they can share but it basically
says they've worked in sdn for 15 years do you
think the needs of the children have become more
complex over the years they've recently moved
to an ssc in the mainstream i think that's like
uh yeah like a pop yeah i i think that's a really
interesting question i i honestly think um because
if you go online there's loads of um it's like
videos where people are like you know suddenly
everyone has need but i i just feel like with
recognizing it and so maybe needs are actually
more complex than we thought and we're just getting
better at supporting those individuals medical
needs obviously like let's not and that the younger
children are surviving and children are surviving
through severe medical trauma because of the
incredible NHS complications so children are
surviving when usually they unfortunately wouldn't
in years gone by which is incredible how amazing
yeah that does inevitably mean that there will
be more needs and medical needs in school doesn't
it yeah you can't get away from it I think that
as a part of it, people are having children ages.
There is obvious reasons why that would be happening.
And I am seeing that my class 15 years ago in
a special school wasn't as complex as some of
the mainstream children in my school now, which
is interesting to me. Like, where were those
children before? I don't know. Yeah, I think
particularly in mainstream, I think the number
of students... that either have a diagnosis of
some sort or need one I think has increased yeah
and I do think well in the UK particularly I
think there's going to be a point where well
the mental health services but also like The
need for educational psychologists. Speech and
language. I can feel it. I don't know if, like
Cornwall's like 10 years behind anyway, but it
is so lacking in therapy. One of my good friends,
his wife is a speech and language therapist and
had a really good business competing with like
one of the, like the big. um names in speech
and language um she then went on her own um kind
of separated with a bit etc etc but basically
was like in the area that they were like she
will never be out of work like it's just and
she just does mainstream work as well yeah i
believe it it's so needed and also like um i
see the littlies like three four that are coming
in And their speech language is so poor. They're
coming in with such poor language skills. I don't
know. I don't know. I can't explain why, but
I'm definitely seeing it like on the ground.
I can't explain it. But even in the last four
years in my current school, like the children
that left in year six in my first year, there's
no way that we would have children like that
again. Because there is such, like the need,
the children that we are getting are getting
more and more complex. Yeah. I can't explain
why. I'm definitely seeing it. Yeah. Well, I
think it's inevitable. I think, yeah. And I think
the, well, this is probably just like my sort
of annoyance towards like the government, but
I just think there's a huge gap between what
we can see and what like those that actually
make decisions, what they decide to do. Like
there definitely is kind of a real difference
in like what should happen. But don't you think
though that all the people that are seeing it
are on the ground? We're busy, like parents,
teachers, carers. foster carers we're busy doing
the work like we haven't got time to be MPs and
be counsellors all the ones that actually know
are the ones that of course have no time or energy
to do it I think it's always amazing when parents
do attend protests and do go there because my
god it's such a huge R when you're already doing
so much already If you don't model, it's like
assuming that a baby will learn to talk if you
never talk to them. Yeah, I was when I very first
started working in the autism specialist setting,
I felt, you know, I was guilty of this. And I
said, oh, but they're not responding. They're
not using them. And a speech and language therapist
said to me that a newborn baby will hear the
word daddy 10 ,000 times before they verbalize
it. You don't stop saying daddy. because that
newborn baby isn't speaking. And essentially
using symbols is like that. It's a new language.
We can't just give them to people and expect
them to know what to do. They have to see us
model it essentially that 10 ,000 times to ensure.
And like you're saying, if they want something
enough, they'll get it. And also if you model
and go, oh, it's crisps today. Here's the crisps.
If they don't like those crisps, they will communicate
that with you. So I can say, you don't like salt
and vinegar. You want red salted, right? the
whole communication is it's not symbols or nothing
you can look at me you can reach you can run
you can move towards me you can look at the object
you can do symbols you can sign we love it all
equally absolutely good but how great that we
can offer all of those options because something
will capture your child or your person yeah and
they that will just grab them and then all of
a sudden they've got a voice and they're understood
and this is it it's really exciting it is and
i think that's the most important thing you've
just said that it's about grabbing the children
you know it's about getting them engaged lots
of people say to me oh i'm doing the routine
with them so i'm showing them that it's time
to get their nappy changed and then we're getting
our shoes on and we're putting our clothes and
i'm like that's amazing that is wonderful that
you're modeling that but Is that grabbing them?
If someone came to me and went, today, Rebecca,
you've got to do the hoovering. You've got to
go shopping. And then you have got to make the
beds. I'd be like, no, thank you. If someone
comes to me and says, Rebecca, today you're going
to watch an episode of Emily in Paris. You are
going to have a glass of wine. so you know it's
about that it's about initially getting those
things that really grab really engage modeling
those things that they love to them and then
the other things will come it's um it's um it's
you know it's a it's not a it's a What's that
saying? I know what I'm trying to say. Yes, that's
the one. I was going to say something. So we
will know what the symbols mean straight away
because we can read. So when we're talking about
learning a new language, well, I know that's
a drink and I know that's chocolate. If they
can't read yet, they might not know. So they
might need a few modelling and a few times. Absolutely.
And a bit of babbling, almost like finger babbling,
to know what something means. So, for example,
I've taken the word off of this one. I've taken
the word off of this one. That could be letters.
That could be folder. That could be file. Widget
is actually, I find, quite obvious. You can do
it. But actually, it would take me a few times
of someone modelling that word. Yeah, word. Yeah,
the word. Oh, right. That's what that means.
Well, that's what your child's doing when they're
seeing symbols for the first time. Just how they
think, especially like we're assuming now that
they're analytical, neurotypical thinkers. And
we know that most non -speaking children aren't.
They aren't literal. They see things differently
than we do. And they might look at that image
and we see it's clearly a dream, but they might
not. It might take them a few times to pair up
with that object, to feel that experience. experience
of seeing you pressing the object and the symbols
and then getting the object and then, oh, yeah,
right, yeah, I'll do that. And like you say,
the 10 ,000 times, it might be once, twice, three
times. But initially, I wouldn't assume that
they would know what that means straight away
if they can't read. Why would they know? It would
be incredible if they could guess it, really.
It would be incredible if they could guess it
straight away without knowing it, right? Absolutely.
So the thing I like about your symbols is actually
they are. Pretty guessable. Students do pick
them up incredibly quickly. We've had four new
students in my class this September. And two
of them we're using symbols with and widget symbols
with. And yeah, within the first few days, they
were they were matching and communicating and
like looking at their tablet devices and pressing
and thinking, this is amazing. Suddenly a language
that I can understand and speak in as an educator
and a caregiver. There is nothing more satisfying
than seeing a young person find their voice for
the first time, no matter what that looks like.
Absolutely. I completely agree. And there's just
too many stories that I can tell where my heart
is just absolutely sound. I think my favorite
ones is when they argue with me and they start
like telling me no. And, you know, they really
get. yeah and they're getting their personalities
come out and i'm like it's amazing or they do
a joke you know i love that they're silly with
it because it's not just a question i mean i
know i've said toilet drink chocolate crisp that's
that's the typical standard however Communication
is so much more than that, isn't it? It's relationship
building. It's connecting over a film. Oh, isn't
that funny? I love this. Isn't that yummy? Oh,
I don't like that. Oh, no, get off. Go away.
Communication is so much more than that. And
we want our learners to not just be able to request
crisps or not just be able to tap their chest
when they want the toilet. we want to have a
relationship we want to have two -way conversations
with them and if it can't be through speech well
it can be through images can't it absolutely
and i think that's really important obviously
you and i have both worked in settings with non
-speaking people and but i think it's really
important referring back to mainstream settings
that are starting to use symbols with their pupils
and quite often they'll say we started using
them with child a the miss smith uses them with
rebecca and i always say to them well are the
other pupils seeing that exposure because it's
great absolutely amazing that the teaching assistant
and the teacher are using it with those pupils
but actually the whole class need to see those
symbols being used as a language so that child
isn't isolated that they can have that communication
and interaction with their peers and it's good
practice it will support it's not going to hinder
anyone i remember being in year six and you know
i i didn't have a noticeable need for symbols
but every morning i looked through the window
Because a year six teacher would write or have
pictures of what was happening that day. For
some reason, it was really important to me at
age 11 that I knew what my day would look like.
It doesn't hinder anyone to just know and be
prepared and have another language. Anyone can
be dysregulated and lose their voice. And often
what happens in dysregulation is you lose the
ability to negotiate, communicate how you usually
would make choices. not just autistic people
that is not just neurodivergent people that is
not just those with a learning disability all
of us lose the ability to communicate how we
would if we're dysregulated if we're upset if
we're angry frustrated tired ill all of those
things if those symbols are relaxed language
then that's great we're speaking a lot about
supporting pupils and people at home who are
non -speaking but it's also amazing for people
who speak different languages you know you think
if you go to another country wherever you go
you know how to use the toilet because usually
there's a symbol there whether it's in arabic
whether it's in french so you know symbols like
we said they're universal and they just support
everyone and i know that woven have said it hasn't
just supported neurodivergent people it's supported
people and people visiting from other countries
it's supported early years children people visiting
with their younger children who can't yet read
you know they can now access the animals and
say what they want to see because they've you
know they yet they can't yet access tech so it
isn't just for people with additional needs and
neurodivergent people symbols help everyone and
at some point in their life one in five people
will have a communication difficulty whether
that's where they're with it whether something
happens because they have an accident whether
they lose speech due to having dementia it's
just so many different ways you actually have
a template don't you for english as an additional
language so it shows their language translated
as well as english right we do so that's in these
standard packages but it can be bought as well
for home accounts if people wanted to add it
on and there's separate when you go to create
from a template there's just a separate set that
says dual language and when you go into there
there's over 80 different languages that you
can translate to so it works exactly the same
you type in the english the symbol will appear
and then you just translate that document and
it will pop Often, so many teachers will be watching
this thinking, yes, I have an EAL pupil and I
can't communicate. And actually, we have to bring
their sibling out of another year just to communicate
with them. Or they're good at English, but their
parents aren't, whatever. How great that we have
this tool on our computer that we're already
using for our learners that can help us communicate
with their parents or just helps them embed,
you know, they're learning faster. And how lovely
that we can build a relationship with them quicker
because we can use their language. Without, you
know, taking their pupil or lesson or whatever.
And I'm sure that loads of people can relate
to that situation. That, you know, this pupil
just turns up. Because often you don't get that
warning about these pupils either. They just
turn up. They cannot speak the language at all.
And they're clearly anxious. How lovely. But
the first thing you do for them is not only their
language. but also pictures. And it just, what
does that tell them? It tells them we're here,
we're trying, we're helping, you know, we're
willing to learn your language. We're willing
to find a solution. Because how scary must that
be, you know? Just can't imagine. When I went
to France, I got so anxious because I couldn't
communicate what type of coffee I wanted and
what sandwich I wanted. And that was, you know,
that was just asking for a sandwich and I could
speak, I could communicate in English. i just
felt so anxious i felt silly i felt embarrassed
and i would hate that that's how some people
feel every single day because they're not able
to communicate verbally and so yeah our aim is
to be able to support everyone in feeling safe
and comfortable in the world around them it's
odd isn't it because that isn't necessarily autism
and also not problems to be fixed as well and
i think that's something that we can easily get
stuck with because it's like oh I have this problem
I have this problem and it's like I don't know
I find that really heartbreaking I think that's
you know as a society culturally and you know
generationally we want things to happen now so
again when you're thinking autism or not we just
want things to happen we want to fix we want
to nurture we want to care and what we often
do is we think about that issue or that problem
and then think about how to strategize it and
we forget that why and like you say the why could
be because they just want to make their friends
laugh or they're having to interacting and they
want my attention or you know behind anything
there's a child there that only wants to really
impress you know we all do exactly and also like
why do you want to solve it is it for your benefit
or is it for theirs i think that's a really good
question to ask ourselves constantly as well
like is ripping paper something to solve for
you or is it something to solve for them because
actually it's quite a safe way of meeting their
need is it really a problem or is it just a problem
because you need to remember to put the important
bits away and it's quite annoying to have to
do that you know it's like it's stuff like that
it's like actually this isn't their problem this
is a you problem and I think that's really hard
that's really hard for practitioners and parents
to hear that oh my goodness I mean there's such
a journey of it I mean especially I can think
about when I first started there were definitely
things that would annoy me in the classroom because
you're thinking about how you know you've been
taught or when you've gone to the lecturers and
how they've made it seem that you know you need
to run your class or manage your class and then
you're looking at these behaviors and you're
like they're undesirable no they're not undesirable
they're actually just communicating something
and actually I'm really struggling for that and
that's why at the same We're all human and you
can tap out yourself. You know, it could be that
you're having a really hard day and then a type
of, I don't know, a verbal stimming. can really
get to you and you need to have that time away
just as much as for that individual let's say
their peer doing it can really annoy them even
though they're you know yeah and i think it's
that's a culture that needs to be embedded within
your class doesn't it and i feel like it needs
to be modeled so if you're the teacher in the
class or the hlta usually the others look to
you to be modeling that So if you're not taking
breaks or if you're not taking your lunch, I
mean, I can be guilty of this. If you're not
saying, you know, I need a break or I need to
change adults or let's switch, then the culture
in the class is I can cope. This shows capability
and strength, right? It has to start and almost
magnetize, magnify, sorry. you saying i need
a break even if you're doing it or not you know
it almost needs to become a norm culture of like
a few times a day just saying let's switch it
let's have a break let's try just visuals let's
try this and it being because i am not coping
and then therefore then it will build confidence
for other people to say yeah really important
and expressing that as well and expressing you
know when you think about masking and camouflaging
and how easily that happen you know at times
i myself a challenge and think of how can i how
can i model like about to go into a school and
you know i need to show that it can be break
down and i'll almost a script for just that interaction
to be then have those you know those staff members
to see yeah it's actually okay yeah you can't
show weakness i think it's so difficult especially
when someone's coming in from outside like when
i pick your best i'm like that too because i'm
so proud of our unit i just want to like put
our best self forward whatever that means yeah
but it's so true like all you want to see maybe
we could talk about that actually like all what
do you want to see i feel like all i would want
to see is is caregivers that really care for
and are in tune with the children. I think would
be the probably the first thing I want to see
actually if they're doing some kind of intensive
interaction and if they're understanding the
children and all their communication as a whole
I think I'd be really impressed no matter what
else was going on. I think that like a timetable
will say now we're doing a test for autism right
but all of the classes are dysregulated. get
that you're really wanting to carry on and you
see those supporting adults like no come on come
on just by someone external so for example me
coming into because they probably really want
to show it off because it's probably normally
really lovely but at the same time like you're
saying i would love to see no okay i think we
need to do let's go into a sensory break and
really understanding and i'm sure we'll talk
about more but understanding that movement's
not just going to hold things it can be the start
and it can be absolutely wonderful but it's probably
going to be really difficult for those individuals
to sit down sustain that attention and focus
and you know sit there and do all the things
that you really want them to do when someone's
just walked in if they're not regular You know,
and that's really important. So mine definitely
would be about going, you know, I would love
for educators, carers to feel more in control
and just have that bit about them. That's what
I look for, that they can just say, no, we're
not doing the status quo or no, we're not sticking
to the schedule. And I know it. It's really hard.
That makes me feel better then. I've got a story.
They have Ofsted in December. For some reason,
I've been teaching for 15 years and it was my
first Ofsted. I've always seemed to just miss
them. I think I've always had the class that
the Ofsted are kind of, that they kind of pass
by, I think. Teachers are really good at that.
Avoiding my classes. Because I should have had
it about three or four times. They came into
my room. She is a head teacher of a specialist
provision school. So I felt in good hands. So
that's a bit of context. And we were doing a
sensory story. And we'd been doing it for weeks
because I repeat the story every week for about
six weeks. And it was probably the third or fourth
week we'd done it. It was always good. It was
vehicles. Sorry, they're super into vehicles.
Pass the first object over, it gets thrown. And
it was a really heavy thing. And I was like,
okay, okay. And then we, right, okay, well, we're
not going to go and pick it up. We're just going
to do the next page. That gets thrown by another
child. okay yeah let's do a lighter object that
gets thrown as well and I was like no we're not
doing this like I am not going to sit here and
pretend that this is usually what happens I'm
not gonna like this is not okay it's clearly
we are not ready for story time right now yeah
off we went and we spread out and and yeah there's
people there for 45 minutes and it was kind of
it was 45 minutes of like trying to work out
10 different individual needs basically but you
know what Luckily, she got it. Yeah. And we did
really well. But it was exactly that. And I'm
so pleased that in the moment, I had the confidence
to think, you know what? Even if you don't get
this, in this moment, my kids are not ready for
story time. Someone's going to get hurt, firstly.
It's not going to be fun for me. This isn't fun.
I'm not enjoying this. You're probably not either.
I think, like you said, cultural like having
that shift because you know again when you think
about interview okay um there was once upon a
time that you would ask about organization and
being punctual and how would you structure a
lesson and how would you that's just not going
to fit or that would tell me is goodness that's
so much pressure and that yeah what are my students
going to be doing at those times like I know
that routine and structure is of course important
and you will have it but same time it's about
I think you're thinking about leading and being
with children that are looking up at you and
need you there to support them right it's so
important actually go back to what you said Jordan
at the beginning about thinking is it for you
or is it for them you know that's all kind of
my yeah because at that time if I carried on
with the story it totally would have been for
me it wasn't for them in any way like they were
not learning they weren't ready to take anything
on from there so yeah that that it just wasn't
meeting their needs it's a bit of a juxtaposition
isn't it because i often say our classes need
to be structured and flexible and i think it's
really hard to explain what i mean by that because
it needs to have the concrete pillars of routine
that is predictable you do this then this then
this and then this then this and this and you
kind of there's kind of like a rotation every
kind of everyone knows where they're at maybe
their table is always in the same place or their
chair is always in the same place or they always
go to the computer and then this or they know
they're going to have snap time a few times throughout
the day and that that's predictable because anxiety
doesn't yeah so that's what i mean by drugs yeah
but i don't mean that it's rigid i mean we have
flexibility within that structure that you can
maybe maybe done in any order yeah like the lesson
or maybe sensory diets can be sprinkled in wherever
or toilets can be sprinkled in wherever or snacks
can stability within the structure and it's really
hard to explain it without seeing i think it's
really important important as well to think about
what structure looks like so that look verbal
communication structure first we're going to
do this next doesn't mean I have to bring in
my visuals every time and be like right this
is what we're doing guys just the structure within
my voice it could be structure like you say of
knowing you know who's going to be in the classroom
and if if it's going to be someone different
that they're aware of that it can come in it
doesn't need to be as you know that traditional
sense of We do this and then you get this and
then it doesn't happen. Because I'm sure you'll
agree, but that kind of idea, if you were to
come into an actual well -functioning classroom,
it doesn't really look the same. Yeah, I feel
like our baseline is that, like we have a plan,
but I feel like the kids do this. Yeah. I feel
like I'm quite a visual person. Yeah, so I think
they touch base with the structure. throughout
the day each of them and it looks different for
every single child i have 10 children in my class
and it's different for every single child kind
of weave in and out of the structured day we
call it consistent compassion in our class it
the consistency is the band of of the structure
but the compassion comes in by letting them meet
their needs sensing diets as crunchy snacks going
for a walk yeah maybe we just missed this to
this lesson today because you're not ready for
it that remember that's certainly yeah definitely
and I think that's what it is is about meeting
that need and at times it can be harder than
others because you're letting you know resources
be in place and that's including you know what
if someone's ill or what if you know there's
so different things that are going to impact
that and sometimes you're going to walk away
think gosh you know When you're packing your
stuff up or you're tidying your classroom or
you're going home that evening, you're reflecting
on that. But that's really great as well. Like,
did I meet that person's needs before? Every
day. It took me 10 minutes to realize this is
what they wanted because I was thinking about
this. And, you know, there's so many different
things that are going to be there. And it's almost
like that lovely visual needs to be, you know,
it needs to be there for us as well, really.
Yeah, true. true like was the main baseline of
the day good enough and if the answer is yes
and we weaved in and out of it then i guess that
we need to give that to ourselves too don't we
right yeah it's true and we all come with our
own expectations of the day so a speech and language
therapist would visit and they would expect to
see certain things or a physio would come and
they would accept certain things it's really
hard to meet all of all of these different professionals
and my team as well they come with their own
yeah expectations for the day and it's really
hard to meet everyone's expectations where they're
at we only have so much capacity in my room adults
wise finance wise budget time it's all you know
it's all our capacity so you kind of have to
just pick and choose don't you yeah you do That's
it for this week's episode. I hope you enjoyed
taking a look back at some of my favorite moments
from series one. If you would like to be on my
podcast for series two, then please get in touch.
You can email me at oursensorykids at gmail .com
or just send me a DM on social media and I'd
love to have you on. See you next time.