WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.489 --> 00:00:30.949 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.949 --> 00:00:33.649 sponsor is Octopus Energy. 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Head to the link in the description below 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.219 to make the switch today. Now to the episode. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.620 Hello, everybody. My name is Jordan. Welcome 00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:14.120 back to the Sensory Classroom podcast. Today, 00:01:14.260 --> 00:01:17.140 I am joined by Charlotte, who is twins, tides 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:20.560 and autism vibes on Instagram. Welcome, Charlotte. 00:01:21.549 --> 00:01:25.870 Hi Jordan. Thanks for having me. Of course. So 00:01:25.870 --> 00:01:28.469 let's start off with talking about your family 00:01:28.469 --> 00:01:33.109 setup. Okay, so I am a mum with four children. 00:01:33.189 --> 00:01:37.510 So I have Jude, Tommy and my twin daughters Serenity 00:01:37.510 --> 00:01:42.430 and Francesca. And I am on to my second marriage 00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:45.870 and I co -parent with Jude and Tommy's dad who 00:01:45.870 --> 00:01:48.450 is James from Stories About Autism. Wonderful. 00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:51.790 And how old are your children? So Jude is 17, 00:01:52.209 --> 00:01:56.590 Tommy is 14 and the twins are seven. Amazing. 00:01:56.609 --> 00:02:00.209 And I know that through just following your and 00:02:00.209 --> 00:02:03.230 James's social media, that the boys haven't always 00:02:03.230 --> 00:02:07.349 been able to live together or you've chosen to 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:10.409 not through their, to support their dysregulation. 00:02:11.389 --> 00:02:16.669 Yeah, exactly. So we got to around, Tommy was 00:02:16.669 --> 00:02:20.740 probably approaching about 18 months. And it 00:02:20.740 --> 00:02:24.520 was becoming really, really difficult for Jude 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:29.120 to regulate with Tommy's. Just Tommy being a 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:32.060 baby, really. Those noises, unpredictability, 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:36.080 moving when Jude wasn't sure why he was moving, 00:02:36.139 --> 00:02:39.960 crying because he was hungry, you know, screaming 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:44.120 out of joy. All of those things just really took 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:48.460 an impact on Jude. So we ended up kind of living 00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:52.310 really separately. James was with one, I was 00:02:52.310 --> 00:02:55.830 with another. One was in one room, I was in another 00:02:55.830 --> 00:02:58.770 room. Days out would start to be more and more 00:02:58.770 --> 00:03:02.389 separate because it wasn't getting better. Jude 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:05.229 wasn't getting more used to Tommy. It was actually 00:03:05.229 --> 00:03:08.629 going the opposite way and he was becoming, self 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.509 -harming started happening, real hard behaviours 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:15.669 to watch your four and five -year -old child 00:03:15.669 --> 00:03:18.449 at the time go through just because Tommy was 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:22.680 being Tommy. Yeah, high anxiety, high dysregulation, 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:26.879 really not coping. No, not at all. Did you know 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.099 that they were autistic at that point? Yeah, 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:33.840 so I started my pathway when Jude was around 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:37.500 six, seven months old, which seems crazy. But 00:03:37.500 --> 00:03:40.340 I just knew that something wasn't right. You 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:42.000 know, I had a six -month -old that would never 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:47.319 look at me, was very vacant. And just, it didn't 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.689 feel... like it should have felt at the time 00:03:50.689 --> 00:03:54.770 so I kind of kept a close eye on from around 00:03:54.770 --> 00:03:56.889 sort of six months by the time we got to about 00:03:56.889 --> 00:04:00.069 18 months old I was already probably four or 00:04:00.069 --> 00:04:02.969 five months down the path of been to the doctor 00:04:02.969 --> 00:04:06.250 discussed how I felt and by 19 months old we 00:04:06.250 --> 00:04:08.550 were already in a room having our assessment 00:04:08.550 --> 00:04:12.729 and left with a diagnosis at 19 months old which 00:04:12.729 --> 00:04:15.870 is crazy now when I think about it because so 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:19.310 many people are you know, waiting and they don't 00:04:19.310 --> 00:04:21.930 diagnose that young. But I think Jude being on 00:04:21.930 --> 00:04:24.889 the more severe end of the spectrum, I think 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:27.230 they could see that there was, you know, it was 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:29.509 very clear that he was autistic. It was very 00:04:29.509 --> 00:04:32.050 clear that he had global development delay. And 00:04:32.050 --> 00:04:34.290 for us to be able to parent Jude, we needed that 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:37.810 support then and there. And thank goodness that 00:04:37.810 --> 00:04:40.829 you did. But like you say, so often now, children 00:04:40.829 --> 00:04:43.189 are asked to wait until at least after three 00:04:43.189 --> 00:04:45.810 before they even put their request in. And then 00:04:45.810 --> 00:04:47.649 some children are getting to around six years 00:04:47.649 --> 00:04:49.990 old before they are receiving their diagnosis. 00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:52.370 Because there's so many people that are aware 00:04:52.370 --> 00:04:54.230 now and know the signs now, which is fantastic. 00:04:54.750 --> 00:04:57.449 But the system just isn't keeping up with this. 00:04:57.529 --> 00:05:02.399 No, and it's not. But yeah. Can't imagine you 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.779 managing and always wondering until six years 00:05:04.779 --> 00:05:06.699 old without that support, which is what families 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:08.660 are having to do now. It seems really unfair, 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:12.759 doesn't it? I think for us, it was, I can't parent 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.839 my child without the support that I need to be 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.720 able to know how do I regulate my child? You 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:22.480 know, how do I communicate with my child when 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.160 words aren't enough? How can I... play with my 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:29.420 child when typical play isn't an option and for 00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:32.959 me I needed the right support and the right therapies 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:35.779 to be put in place so I could start that connection 00:05:35.779 --> 00:05:38.759 and I think I knocked on every door my voice 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.470 got louder and louder each time that People were 00:05:41.470 --> 00:05:44.470 saying, he's a baby, he's a baby. And for me, 00:05:44.529 --> 00:05:47.389 yes, he was a baby, but he's a baby that each 00:05:47.389 --> 00:05:49.910 day that goes by, I'm not connecting with. I'm 00:05:49.910 --> 00:05:52.610 not getting eye contact with. I'm not being able 00:05:52.610 --> 00:05:55.750 to play with my baby. And I want to, and I need 00:05:55.750 --> 00:05:58.329 someone to help me. It's amazing that he's your 00:05:58.329 --> 00:06:01.290 first child. So you had no other comparisons 00:06:01.290 --> 00:06:04.410 to make, but you just knew, your mother's intuition 00:06:04.410 --> 00:06:07.569 knew that something was different. Something 00:06:07.569 --> 00:06:10.660 wasn't... neurotypical about your baby, which 00:06:10.660 --> 00:06:13.259 is quite incredible, really, I would say. Yeah, 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:15.360 I always find that really strange because I didn't 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.639 know anyone with autism. I hadn't had any experience. 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:21.019 I didn't really even know what the word meant. 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:23.639 But the word just came out of my mouth one day 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.860 and it never left. And from there, the Googling 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:30.360 starts and all of those things. And I think I 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.100 just knew, like you said, that intuition kicked 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:36.610 in, that gut feeling. Like I said, it was more 00:06:36.610 --> 00:06:38.589 each day that was going past, all I was doing 00:06:38.589 --> 00:06:40.930 was being a mum, walking around town, pushing 00:06:40.930 --> 00:06:43.910 a pram. And that's all I felt I had. I didn't 00:06:43.910 --> 00:06:46.689 have any more than just pushing a pram and then 00:06:46.689 --> 00:06:49.670 keeping him fed, keeping him warm, keeping him 00:06:49.670 --> 00:06:52.689 safe. But I wanted to play with my baby. I wanted 00:06:52.689 --> 00:06:55.689 to connect with him. And the neurotypical ways 00:06:55.689 --> 00:06:59.000 weren't... touching the sides. So I wanted someone 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.680 to say with or without the diagnosis, I wanted 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.259 someone to say, you know, try playing alongside 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:07.319 him or, you know, how about some bubbles? How 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:09.660 about motivators? And all these things that I 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:13.360 didn't know, I needed someone to give the language 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.819 to me so I could at least then Google the right 00:07:15.819 --> 00:07:18.339 pathways or find the right people that could 00:07:18.339 --> 00:07:21.459 help me and say, yeah. This is it. This is how 00:07:21.459 --> 00:07:24.579 you can start your journey with Jude. And it 00:07:24.579 --> 00:07:26.819 may look very different from your friend who's 00:07:26.819 --> 00:07:28.930 at Baby Group. But you're going to have a journey 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:31.689 and you're going to be able to get, even if it's, 00:07:31.689 --> 00:07:35.029 you know, five minutes of play today, you'll 00:07:35.029 --> 00:07:37.610 get something. And that is what I seeked. And 00:07:37.610 --> 00:07:39.370 that's what I got. I could imagine that's so 00:07:39.370 --> 00:07:42.610 encouraging for people who are listening to this, 00:07:42.629 --> 00:07:44.949 that are waiting for those answers, that are 00:07:44.949 --> 00:07:46.750 waiting for that support. Because there's not 00:07:46.750 --> 00:07:48.550 only a wait for diagnosis, there's also a wait 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:51.310 for the support, if any, at the moment. What 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.649 kind of things, methods, approaches really helped 00:07:55.649 --> 00:07:59.730 you to connect with Jude on those early stages 00:07:59.730 --> 00:08:02.410 that people could action and try whilst they're 00:08:02.410 --> 00:08:05.350 hunting? I think the really valuable things that 00:08:05.350 --> 00:08:06.949 I've learned along the way that I've connected 00:08:06.949 --> 00:08:10.269 with actually both Jude and Tommy was learning 00:08:10.269 --> 00:08:14.000 to play alongside them and not... push myself 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.920 onto, you know, them building blocks, me sitting 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.100 right in front of them and doing the next block. 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.259 I also bought the same blocks and I built them 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:25.560 next to him doing the same thing. And everything 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:28.579 I did was like that. And I think one day, you 00:08:28.579 --> 00:08:30.459 know, Jude just turned around and started watching 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:33.519 what I was doing. And then the next day he came 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.460 over and stole one of my blocks and it was gradual, 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:39.279 but it was magical. And we got that connection. 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.639 So I think. And allowing him the space that he 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:46.259 needed to be able to play in the way that he 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:50.200 played with me playing alongside him in that 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.919 way made him feel comfortable enough to go, oh, 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:55.740 hang on, she's a bit of me, you know. And no 00:08:55.740 --> 00:08:57.960 pressure. She's not going to make me do anything. 00:08:58.259 --> 00:08:59.919 She's not going to change my rigid patterns. 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:02.159 She's not going to make me feel anxious. She's 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.120 just there. And actually those opportunities 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:06.850 to connection, you're... Your example of him 00:09:06.850 --> 00:09:09.269 stealing one of your blocks is the perfect example 00:09:09.269 --> 00:09:12.529 of connection being not how you think it's going 00:09:12.529 --> 00:09:14.409 to be. But that's still connection, isn't it? 00:09:14.450 --> 00:09:16.950 It really is. It could be pushing over your tower. 00:09:17.049 --> 00:09:18.889 It could be stealing a block from yours. It could 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:20.769 be stealing all of your blocks. That's still 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:23.230 connection and opportunity that he's noticed 00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:26.649 you. And it was so many moments like that. And 00:09:26.649 --> 00:09:29.769 that was really special. And it was slow. But 00:09:29.769 --> 00:09:33.169 when you go from not having anything. to then 00:09:33.169 --> 00:09:36.389 having moments, they don't feel so sparse. They 00:09:36.389 --> 00:09:38.730 don't feel so, when is it happening? When is 00:09:38.730 --> 00:09:42.129 it happening? You just celebrate the tiniest 00:09:42.129 --> 00:09:44.970 of things. And they suddenly become so huge in 00:09:44.970 --> 00:09:47.429 your world that you go, wow, this is working. 00:09:47.509 --> 00:09:50.090 Let's keep going and going and building on that. 00:09:50.289 --> 00:09:52.490 And that was, I realized that, you know, just 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:54.779 plunking down a big... wicker basket with loads 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:57.500 of sensory toys in wasn't going to cut the mustard 00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:00.980 with jude you know he needed more than that and 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:03.259 we we got the sensory baskets which were great 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:05.820 and it was in the corner of the room but every 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:08.860 time i'd want to connect with him i'd go in with 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.620 my basket too and start just sitting there playing 00:10:11.620 --> 00:10:14.480 with mine and then the magic just started to 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:17.710 happen it was yeah It was a great way to learn 00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:19.669 Jude because actually what you're doing is you're 00:10:19.669 --> 00:10:21.549 observing so much more than you've ever done 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:23.490 that. And you're like, wow, look at the way he 00:10:23.490 --> 00:10:26.549 is looking at that or the way that he's actually 00:10:26.549 --> 00:10:28.830 processing that toy really differently from how 00:10:28.830 --> 00:10:31.610 my eyes process that. Because you're taking the 00:10:31.610 --> 00:10:35.190 time to stop wanting what you think should happen. 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:37.889 You start watching what is happening and what 00:10:37.889 --> 00:10:40.980 is happening. It's really, really magical. It's 00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:43.220 such great advice for not only parents, but also 00:10:43.220 --> 00:10:44.919 teaching assistants in school that are maybe 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:48.299 working with a new pupil to just get to know 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:51.620 them and their play, how they see the world alongside 00:10:51.620 --> 00:10:54.059 them. Like you say, no pressure. For example, 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:57.340 they might have a car, but they might not want 00:10:57.340 --> 00:10:59.679 to play with the car on the car map. Like we 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.000 imagine that it should be played with. We kind 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.159 of need to rebel against that and forget all 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:06.980 of it. that like should be kind of knowledge 00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:09.059 and say well maybe they like holding it in front 00:11:09.059 --> 00:11:10.740 of their eyes and spinning the wheels maybe that's 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:12.820 the play because there's still play opportunities 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:16.419 there it's just different so yeah it's so such 00:11:16.419 --> 00:11:20.740 a wise advice and if people are listening then 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:23.139 maybe they're doing some of these things naturally 00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:24.919 anyway they just never even realized they were 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.279 doing them or they never realized that that was 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:28.860 connection they never realized that that was 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:32.610 play And it's allowing themselves to feel like, 00:11:32.629 --> 00:11:34.649 no, you're doing it. You're doing exactly what 00:11:34.649 --> 00:11:37.090 your child needs. And I think that's it. I think 00:11:37.090 --> 00:11:39.710 it's as the years have gone by, you realize that 00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:42.090 you do so many things without knowing that you're 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:44.870 doing it. And it doesn't feel like play or it 00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:47.029 doesn't feel like education or it doesn't feel 00:11:47.029 --> 00:11:50.750 like mothering or, but actually all those things 00:11:50.750 --> 00:11:54.519 are. there and you are educating, you are mothering, 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:57.399 you are building a bond. It just doesn't look 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:00.220 like what the books told you when you were pregnant 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:03.679 and what milestones might look like and how your 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.159 child's going to run up to you and coo and say, 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.759 mama. It's a whole new guidebook. Chuck that 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:11.259 one away and start writing your own. And even 00:12:11.259 --> 00:12:14.080 if you start journaling saying today, Tommy looked 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.200 at me for the first time and he didn't just look. 00:12:17.629 --> 00:12:20.009 through me he looked at me and we had a moment 00:12:20.009 --> 00:12:23.029 and I think if you start writing those up and 00:12:23.029 --> 00:12:25.149 then you look back over sort of a month and think 00:12:25.149 --> 00:12:28.309 wow he's looked at me five times played together 00:12:28.309 --> 00:12:32.250 for four minutes today we actually got through 00:12:32.250 --> 00:12:35.629 a game from beginning to middle and then that 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:38.590 builds to the end and all these things are there 00:12:38.590 --> 00:12:41.970 but because you are comparing your beginning 00:12:41.970 --> 00:12:45.549 journey to what everybody else is doing you stop 00:12:45.549 --> 00:12:47.669 looking at the small things and the small things 00:12:47.669 --> 00:12:50.409 are actually where the magic happens absolutely 00:12:50.409 --> 00:12:52.909 and allowing yourself that to celebrate that 00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:57.789 you know however small so jude was diagnosed 00:12:57.789 --> 00:13:01.029 at 19 months yeah well how old was tommy at that 00:13:01.029 --> 00:13:04.629 point tommy wasn't born yet tommy was tommy was 00:13:04.629 --> 00:13:09.279 born um when jude was three okay So a week after 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.200 Jude's third birthday, Tommy came along. And 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.740 what was the journey like through diagnosis? 00:13:14.779 --> 00:13:17.960 Was it similar? Did you know straight away? It 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.200 was different because obviously Jude was so high 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.100 needs and we'd got three years in and we were 00:13:24.100 --> 00:13:25.980 doing all the right things and we were exhausted 00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:29.559 because sleep was not on his menu of life. And 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.059 you are kind of just going in survival mode. 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.620 But also knowing that you've got to grow this 00:13:35.620 --> 00:13:38.000 baby and you want to get into the world safely 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.679 and what's that going to look like? Did you have 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.740 a lot of anxiety around that when you were pregnant? 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:45.580 Knowing, like, how was Jude going? Like, did 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:48.080 you kind of feel those things? I didn't actually. 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.299 Weirdly, I never thought how Jude would deal 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:54.659 with it. What I did think was... How are we going 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:57.279 to deal with it? Because your life is already 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.460 so full with Jude and learning him and connecting 00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:02.320 with him. How is a baby going to fit into that? 00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:04.820 It's such a realistic fear. And I think lots 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:07.139 of any second time parents would have similar 00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:08.779 fears of how are we going to make this work? 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.120 Because life already feels so full. Adoptism 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.549 and global developments lay onto that. yeah absolutely 00:14:14.549 --> 00:14:17.309 and sensory processing you know disorder he it 00:14:17.309 --> 00:14:20.450 was huge for him so you know I knew that a baby 00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:23.330 crying would cause havoc I knew all of those 00:14:23.330 --> 00:14:26.820 things would change Jude's environment, which 00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:30.419 we'd protected so well. Right. So the anxiety 00:14:30.419 --> 00:14:34.240 came more around how we could cope because we'd 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.960 spent the last three years meeting Jude's needs 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.639 and making his life so comfortable for him that 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:41.779 I knew he was going to be okay because Jude is 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:44.299 a prince and he lives his best life. What I knew 00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:48.200 was that we as parents, how are we going to cope? 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:50.980 We're already on minimal sleep. We're already 00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:53.980 meeting all of Jude's needs. Is there room for 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.600 less? sleep? Is there room to meet someone else's 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:00.299 needs? How am I going to get to enjoy my new 00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.860 baby when all I'm trying to do is connect still 00:15:03.860 --> 00:15:06.799 with Jude and keep him safe and keep him happy? 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.679 So that was more the anxiety was kind of around 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.399 that at that stage. And Tommy came along and 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:18.639 he came into the world safely and we came home. 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.279 And it was an adjustment for everybody, I think. 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.659 I moved downstairs into a room so it wouldn't 00:15:26.659 --> 00:15:29.559 wake Jude up at night when I was doing the feeds. 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.360 James was upstairs with Tommy. Sorry, James was 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:34.919 upstairs with Jude while I was downstairs with 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:36.919 Tommy. Then once we got into a routine after 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:38.759 about three months, we all went back upstairs 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.179 and tried to live as functionally as possible. 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:44.360 But that's when you could really see that Jude 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.620 was not adapting to having a new baby brother. 00:15:49.070 --> 00:15:53.129 It became very sad, I guess, to see a family 00:15:53.129 --> 00:15:55.730 disconnect and not connect. I think it's really 00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:58.210 common, though, having been a teacher for 16 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:01.450 years, I've known many, many, many, many families 00:16:01.450 --> 00:16:05.590 of siblings, either both autistic or one, that 00:16:05.590 --> 00:16:09.870 really struggle to find the balance of everyone 00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:13.149 having their space that suits them is really, 00:16:13.309 --> 00:16:17.340 really challenging. And of course... parent priorities 00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:20.779 change every moment of every day you know all 00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:22.720 of a sudden like oh it's about you know this 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.539 is the focus oh no now this is the focus and 00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:29.539 it's just it's so hard and yeah as a teacher 00:16:29.539 --> 00:16:32.639 witnessing this and just trying to support it 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.320 from a school side there's only so much we can 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.279 do of course but it's so common it is really 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.840 common and I think as the years go on we found 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.100 our way and and it was very different from what 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.700 we wanted it to be and how our friends were and 00:16:48.700 --> 00:16:52.139 what a 2 .4 family looked like but we we found 00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:56.440 our way and then I guess we moved on to to then 00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.419 knowing that Tommy was also displaying you know 00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.679 what kind of age was that so again around I knew 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.920 from around probably nine ten months that the 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.200 development was was different I was already on 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.779 track and Yes. And I think even more than I suppose, 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:13.500 even though Tommy is very different than Jude. 00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:16.279 Very different. He was he doesn't have global 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:20.000 development delay. So he was learning differently 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.019 from Jude. He was stacking up, you know, cups 00:17:23.019 --> 00:17:25.759 and he was doing little, you know, toy things 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.700 in the right way. And for me, I was like, this 00:17:28.700 --> 00:17:30.920 is amazing because we've never had that before. 00:17:31.059 --> 00:17:33.660 But I also knew that there were behaviors there 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.039 that weren't quite right. Like stimming behaviors? 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:39.960 A bit of stimming, a bit of, you know, he wouldn't 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.240 really answer to his name. He didn't show interesting, 00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:46.559 you know, people so much. He would come up to 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.500 you, but it was for a purpose. It wasn't because 00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:51.839 he wanted to be social in any way. So they were 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.099 all very much there. So we started the pathway 00:17:54.099 --> 00:17:57.680 for him around sort of 13, 14 months old. And 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.019 again, by the time he was 20 months, we got our 00:18:00.019 --> 00:18:02.420 diagnosis. But I think we were very much in the 00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:06.039 system. We were already, you know. a family with 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.359 a child with high needs and they were like okay 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:10.539 these people i think that you know they know 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:12.339 what they're they're talking about we'll listen 00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:15.400 to them and they did and we got our diagnosis 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.619 and again and and then suddenly we had two children 00:18:18.619 --> 00:18:22.079 on the spectrum and we lived each day as it came 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.940 yeah yeah and have ever since i'm sure they're 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:29.019 now 17 and Yeah, and it's been a real journey. 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:31.740 I won't fluff it up. There's been beautiful times, 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.240 amazing progress, so many happy memories. But 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.920 my God, there's been some trauma. There has been 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.039 heartache. There has been huge decisions that 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.420 we wish we never had to make. And we have, I 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:49.119 think James and I, and one of our strongest things 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.220 is our relationship, our friendship. the way 00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:55.660 that we really understand each other each other's 00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:58.380 needs and from there meeting Jude and Tommy's 00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:01.059 needs and that's done with kindness compassion 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:04.980 and also a lot of a lot of love you know that 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:07.799 and that's where we lead and I'm sure that's 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.220 why so many people are just enamored by your 00:19:12.220 --> 00:19:16.549 setup because it's It is incredible. And that 00:19:16.549 --> 00:19:20.009 is, and it is rare. I feel like it's big only 00:19:20.009 --> 00:19:23.089 because, it's only possible because both of you 00:19:23.089 --> 00:19:26.509 are coming from a place of wanting the best for 00:19:26.509 --> 00:19:28.930 your boys, wanting the best for each other and 00:19:28.930 --> 00:19:32.910 love. Ultimately. It's centered around a lot, 00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:36.119 a lot of love. And we have, like I said, made 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.759 really hard decisions. You know, separating your 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.200 children is not easy. It's not something that 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.200 we'd ever want to do. We did it because it was 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.460 the right thing to do for our children's mental 00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:49.980 health and in turn Jude's physical health. But 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:53.220 when we made that decision, we were very aware 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:57.039 that the impacts that has on us as people and 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.200 what that... means for us and support each other 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.000 through that you know are you okay today you 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.460 know do we need to maybe speak to more people 00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:09.119 about this is this normal is there another way 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.680 is there another version of life are we missing 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.160 something and just always having that open line 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.339 of communication with each other really helps 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:20.000 you feel I think in life when you make a decision 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.920 the one thing you need to be is comfortable with 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.240 it so it doesn't either haunt you or it doesn't 00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:28.109 You don't want to lay in bed at night thinking, 00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:30.589 should I, shouldn't I, is it the right, is it 00:20:30.589 --> 00:20:34.009 wrong? So I think once you are in a relationship, 00:20:34.190 --> 00:20:37.789 whether it be co -parenting or family or friends, 00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:40.450 if you can find a relationship where someone 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:43.710 hears you and understands you and then connects 00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:46.390 with that, then you have the support to know 00:20:46.390 --> 00:20:49.789 that the things you're doing are supported and 00:20:49.789 --> 00:20:52.230 that they are met with, I'm here if you need 00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:55.369 help, I'm here if you need an ear. And also... 00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:58.289 I'm here when it goes wrong and bad because those 00:20:58.289 --> 00:21:00.970 days happen. So you need that level of support. 00:21:01.269 --> 00:21:04.089 Yeah. And so I think everybody needs a strong 00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:07.470 support network when raising a family with differences. 00:21:07.769 --> 00:21:10.890 And then your twin girls are in the mix as well. 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:13.910 Yes. And then once James and I's relationship 00:21:13.910 --> 00:21:17.329 unfortunately did break down and we had then 00:21:17.329 --> 00:21:19.329 decided that the boys needed to be separate. 00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:22.849 And after a couple of years, I went on to meet 00:21:22.849 --> 00:21:26.569 Carl. who's a teacher, and I went on to have 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:29.569 two more children. What was it like seeing their 00:21:29.569 --> 00:21:31.430 relationship with the boys? It seems wonderful 00:21:31.430 --> 00:21:34.250 from what I... It is really special. I mean, 00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:36.369 at first, again, I was on eggshells. Oh, my God, 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:38.230 I've got a baby back in the house. Jude hates 00:21:38.230 --> 00:21:42.009 babies. Jude hates babies. And he did hate babies 00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:44.589 still. Jude doesn't like babies. You know, babies 00:21:44.589 --> 00:21:49.150 are just a creature to him that is not acceptable 00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:53.359 in his... world so navigating that again was 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.339 fun and tiring but now they've got older they're 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.579 growing up in a world that's very different from 00:21:58.579 --> 00:22:01.079 maybe a lot of their friends because they do 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:04.660 have brothers that have high support needs and 00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:07.279 they are growing up with empathy they're going 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:10.160 up with learning that different is not less and 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.099 that we all are very very different and there 00:22:13.099 --> 00:22:17.720 is ways to be still bonded with someone in a 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:20.200 different way. And they've learned that without 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.900 words, you know, without pressure, without expectation, 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.339 just leading with love. And it's great. Following 00:22:28.339 --> 00:22:30.940 your model, I suppose, but also children are 00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:34.700 just so great at it. I feel like. just watching 00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:36.960 in my specialist provision is attached to a mainstream 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.599 school and the mainstream children for the most 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.279 part just know what to do they get down to my 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.180 children's level they use less verbal they use 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:48.619 really smiling kind soft faces like they just 00:22:48.619 --> 00:22:51.779 know children are incredible they really are 00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:54.059 and it starts with them you know they are the 00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:56.990 future us they are the people that will go on, 00:22:57.009 --> 00:22:59.609 you know, my daughters will be here long after 00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:02.609 me advocating for Jude and Tommy and for people 00:23:02.609 --> 00:23:05.490 like Jude and Tommy. And I want them to lead 00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:08.710 in the same way that we have always led with, 00:23:08.809 --> 00:23:12.369 which is, you know, kindness, you know, clear 00:23:12.369 --> 00:23:15.990 communication of just knowing that what there 00:23:15.990 --> 00:23:19.049 is, I think the hardest thing is when the why's 00:23:19.049 --> 00:23:21.859 come. Mummy, why doesn't, you know, Jude? Why 00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:24.079 doesn't he want to talk to me? Why doesn't he 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:26.920 like me being in a room at the same time as me? 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:30.019 And I think when you can sit down and break that 00:23:30.019 --> 00:23:32.099 down for someone and make them understand this 00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.660 is not a you thing, you know, and it's like life, 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.779 isn't it? You know, if our friends aren't texting 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:38.940 us back or we feel left out, we always think 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:41.240 it's an us thing. It's actually not. Sometimes 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:43.559 it's got nothing to do with us. And I make them 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.259 understand that this isn't a you thing. This 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.180 is a Jude thing. And if Jude needs space today, 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.339 that's not a reflection on you. That's nothing 00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:53.980 that you've done wrong. It's just Jude is having 00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:57.259 a hard day today and we need to give him the 00:23:57.259 --> 00:24:00.400 space that that takes to, you know, get through 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.819 what he's going on, what's going on in his mind. 00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:05.680 So I think they're learning that quickly, which 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.119 helps, I think, with all things, you know, girls 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.160 being seven and not feeling already, you know, 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.279 included enough and their friends don't, you 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:14.859 know, want to play with them today, but yesterday 00:24:14.859 --> 00:24:17.980 they did. So I think they're understanding that. 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.660 You know, instead of it always being thinking, 00:24:20.779 --> 00:24:23.480 bringing it back to you, it's not about you. 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:27.059 It's about them. And that's okay. And how lovely 00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:29.519 that they have each other as well. That is a 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.099 godsend. Yeah. I think I do feel sometimes that, 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.960 you know, it was meant to be that way. You know, 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:37.920 knowing that they're going to have to make very 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.119 big decisions in life when I'm not here. And 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.619 I think knowing that they do that together and 00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:46.460 that's not on one person brings me a lot of comfort. 00:24:46.919 --> 00:24:50.039 Absolutely. So you've just started, or I say 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:51.880 just started, has it been nearly a year now? 00:24:52.059 --> 00:24:54.799 Like we recently just started sharing from you. 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.819 No, it's three months. Oh, has it? Three months, 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:01.339 my goodness. Yeah. On social media. Three months. 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.599 And it was a big announcement. I mean, God, it's 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.880 gone wild, hasn't it? Because I think people 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.259 are just enamored with your family and how your 00:25:08.259 --> 00:25:10.400 dynamic and how it works. I mean, how the hell 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.059 you are making this work with so much love and 00:25:13.059 --> 00:25:17.119 communication and collaboration is so inspiring 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.039 for so many. What made you want to start sharing? 00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:25.740 I think I'd always kind of been the sort of hidden. 00:25:26.539 --> 00:25:29.700 you know, secret squirrel behind what goes on 00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:31.839 in stories about autism. Yes, they knew there 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.519 was a mum. Yes, they knew that, you know, but 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.000 I guess they, it was so, well, what's she like? 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.619 And I think it took a long time for me to want 00:25:41.619 --> 00:25:45.019 to do it. I had no need to do it. I didn't feel 00:25:45.019 --> 00:25:47.819 ready in a way, but I also never sort of thought, 00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:50.279 oh, I'd like to do it. I'm just scared. I literally 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.279 just never thought about it. And then we, James 00:25:54.279 --> 00:26:00.339 and I. I started SAA back in December 2023. And 00:26:00.339 --> 00:26:05.099 I think after that, I realized what powerful 00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:07.940 connections can be made in this community, what 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:12.180 a difference it makes to people to share a story 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.380 and make them feel less alone. And from there, 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.640 I was like, okay, now I'm ready. Now I get it. 00:26:16.779 --> 00:26:19.900 Now I want to share my story because I want... 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:23.440 to make people feel like I did today when I spoke 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.980 to Sarah in the shop who came in and shared her 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.000 story. And I wanted more of that. And I thought, 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:30.839 okay, now I'm ready. And I was scared because 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.440 James is like the guru to me, you know, doing 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.900 this for 10 years and sharing our children's 00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:40.289 stories so beautifully. and so delicately but 00:26:40.289 --> 00:26:42.950 also so impactfully that I didn't want to kind 00:26:42.950 --> 00:26:45.630 of come in and and compare to that we're very 00:26:45.630 --> 00:26:48.829 very different my stories are much more my day 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:51.210 -to -day life and I have two more children than 00:26:51.210 --> 00:26:54.170 James and I'm a mum and a woman very different 00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:56.410 it is a very different dynamic isn't it and I 00:26:56.410 --> 00:26:58.849 think it's really lovely to hear from you that's 00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:00.549 why I wanted you on here it's really lovely to 00:27:00.549 --> 00:27:02.769 hear your take on it because lots of people know 00:27:02.769 --> 00:27:04.410 James's take and they've been following him for 00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:06.170 a long time and it's really I think it's really 00:27:06.170 --> 00:27:08.069 important that we get to hear from both of you, 00:27:08.089 --> 00:27:10.269 you being such a big part of the Boys Eyes and 00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:14.630 the SAA, you know, organisation, community, family. 00:27:14.730 --> 00:27:17.490 I just never realised the power of community 00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:21.269 until SAA. And for us, like I've said many times 00:27:21.269 --> 00:27:23.549 before, it's never been about selling a hoodie 00:27:23.549 --> 00:27:27.210 or a T -shirt. It's the story behind that family 00:27:27.210 --> 00:27:29.809 who's buying it, the impact that it has wearing 00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:33.289 that and being part of something. And it's just 00:27:33.289 --> 00:27:37.220 so beautiful and so magical. Through SAA, we 00:27:37.220 --> 00:27:40.519 have set so many amazing things up. We've done 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.339 community days. We've done huge things within 00:27:43.339 --> 00:27:46.339 our town to spread awareness. We've gone into 00:27:46.339 --> 00:27:48.579 schools and spoke to the schools about, you know, 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.579 what it is like to be different and how, you 00:27:51.579 --> 00:27:54.140 know, you can make a difference in someone's 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:56.400 day. There's been so many beautiful, powerful 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:58.400 things that have come from it that I'm just, 00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.140 yeah, I'm so... just blessed really to be part 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:03.619 of this community I've experienced it myself 00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:07.259 I was wearing a love needs no words t -shirt 00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:10.900 and I spotted someone in Cornwall spotted someone 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:14.339 wearing the love needs no words sweater and we 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:17.900 just had a moment like no completely non -speaking 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:20.819 non -verbal didn't cross the road but we just 00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:23.980 had a moment of like I get you I see you yeah 00:28:23.980 --> 00:28:27.349 like you are important to me Like you're not 00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:30.329 alone. And like, so I've experienced that myself 00:28:30.329 --> 00:28:33.849 and it's so powerful that I'm so pleased that 00:28:33.849 --> 00:28:36.089 so many people are getting to experience that, 00:28:36.130 --> 00:28:38.150 that even in the most isolated days, like you 00:28:38.150 --> 00:28:41.130 were talking about before, when you're not connecting 00:28:41.130 --> 00:28:42.750 with your child or not feeling like you're connecting 00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:44.430 with your child, you don't know the answers. 00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:46.990 You are on the waiting list. You feel like you're 00:28:46.990 --> 00:28:49.710 the last of the pack. You know, you feel like 00:28:49.710 --> 00:28:54.319 no one's there for you. Just seeing. a logo or 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.720 a statement on some clothing in town and that 00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:59.759 makes that difference so much difference because 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.180 it just reminds you there is a whole community 00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:06.079 and family out there that are rooting for you 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:10.359 that see you that get it you are not you're not 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:14.119 alone and that is that is SAA to me Yeah, and 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:16.000 that is exactly what it is. And I think this 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:17.759 is just the beginning for us. We have so many 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.619 plans and so many, and we want to just keep building 00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:22.799 and building and building on what differences 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.220 we can make to the community and how we can keep 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:29.759 pushing forward to make people feel seen and 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.339 to make people feel, you know, less alone. And 00:29:33.339 --> 00:29:35.720 that's where, you know, our community really 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.299 needs the help. I've always been a big believer 00:29:38.299 --> 00:29:40.660 in, you know, if I could change one thing, I'd 00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:45.079 change the diagnosis. kind of process it needs 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.000 to start with the parents and offer them therapy 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.799 support counseling and then from there once you've 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.599 in tuned into the parents then they can start 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.420 growing and supporting their child because so 00:29:58.420 --> 00:30:01.319 many parents are left with a leaflet or a diagnosis 00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.859 and they don't know what's coming next and if 00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:08.299 you are educated and you feel less alone and 00:30:08.299 --> 00:30:10.759 you feel strong then you can support your child 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:14.309 in ways that are so so powerful yeah it makes 00:30:14.309 --> 00:30:16.769 so much sense that if the parent's strong then 00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:19.230 the children will have the support of strong 00:30:19.230 --> 00:30:22.450 parent and there is so much that people don't 00:30:22.450 --> 00:30:24.869 know like you know you obviously you being sort 00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:27.269 of sensory classroom sensory integration has 00:30:27.269 --> 00:30:29.509 been a huge huge part of our parenting journey 00:30:29.509 --> 00:30:33.430 without it we wouldn't have been half as successful 00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:36.450 in the games that we've had with June and Tommy 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.579 Tommy is extremely sensory based, even so much 00:30:40.579 --> 00:30:43.140 so that his ball, because Tommy was always Tommy 00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:45.380 and his ball, and he'd take his ball everywhere 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:48.400 and he's amazing with it. And it's so important 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:50.539 that it's actually built into his EHCP plan, 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.859 that that ball is part of his learning and is 00:30:53.859 --> 00:30:56.420 part of his day. And he needs that ball to regulate. 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.019 He needs that ball to be able to, you know, go 00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:03.720 on to the next stage. And parents don't know 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:08.170 that those things are possible. If a ball or 00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:12.849 a sensory break every 10 minutes in an hour makes 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:14.849 a difference to your child's learning journey, 00:31:15.069 --> 00:31:17.470 then you can get that written into your EHCP 00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:20.450 and then that will become part of his day. But 00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:23.970 parents don't know what you can and can't do. 00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:26.809 And I think for us, being much further down the 00:31:26.809 --> 00:31:30.769 road, we realise that there is so much around 00:31:30.769 --> 00:31:34.069 your child that makes a difference. You just 00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:36.569 need to know how to access it. and then put it 00:31:36.569 --> 00:31:38.809 into play. I suppose that's another thing where 00:31:38.809 --> 00:31:41.089 the community comes in. It's not just, I see 00:31:41.089 --> 00:31:43.849 you, you're not alone, but it's practical things. 00:31:44.029 --> 00:31:47.890 Like, how do you get... pads provided you know 00:31:47.890 --> 00:31:51.109 before six years old how do you get a my safe 00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:53.849 bed how do you get an aac device what aac all 00:31:53.849 --> 00:31:56.049 of these questions there are so many questions 00:31:56.049 --> 00:31:58.690 rather than trying to rewrite the wheel and searching 00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:01.349 these things from scratch you know reach on the 00:32:01.349 --> 00:32:03.950 community lean on your community and build relationships 00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:06.410 you know i build really strong relationships 00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:08.490 with my bus drivers that take my children to 00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:11.069 school i have great relationships with the teachers 00:32:11.069 --> 00:32:13.250 because actually they're spending as much time 00:32:13.250 --> 00:32:16.029 if not more so with Jude and Tommy than we are. 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.549 If we need to go somewhere on holiday and we're 00:32:18.549 --> 00:32:20.470 scared, the first people I phone is the teachers 00:32:20.470 --> 00:32:23.369 and say, we're going on holiday. We're scared. 00:32:23.589 --> 00:32:26.289 And they say, let's do this together. You know, 00:32:26.289 --> 00:32:29.170 and there is so much power in building strong 00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:32.349 relationships with every person. And I think 00:32:32.349 --> 00:32:35.190 at the beginning, sometimes you feel a little 00:32:35.190 --> 00:32:38.430 bit like everything's a fight. Yeah, I've heard 00:32:38.430 --> 00:32:41.329 that. If you take that away sometimes and start 00:32:41.329 --> 00:32:45.180 just building relationships. Then suddenly one 00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.900 day you look around and you're like, wow, I've 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:48.619 got the most incredible team of people around 00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:51.640 me. But that takes work. You know, I'm not just 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:53.900 friends with my bus drivers because it happened. 00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:56.140 I make them a cup of tea every morning when I 00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:58.099 don't have time and I haven't had much sleep. 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.720 And I buy an extra pack of biscuits every week. 00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:03.099 So I go out there every morning, I make tea, 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.660 I make coffee and I bring them biscuits. And 00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:08.400 just doing that has made a huge difference to 00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.650 our relationship. You know, if I'm running five 00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:14.049 minutes late because things are good, I don't 00:33:14.049 --> 00:33:16.029 get, we've got another child to pick up. Come 00:33:16.029 --> 00:33:18.390 on, come on. I get met with so much more kindness 00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:22.650 and that makes everything so much easier. It's 00:33:22.650 --> 00:33:25.450 tiny things that make differences. Yeah, tiny 00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:27.509 but impactful. Again, it helps them feel seen 00:33:27.509 --> 00:33:29.170 and understood, doesn't it? And then in turn, 00:33:29.210 --> 00:33:31.809 they see you as somebody that deserves to be 00:33:31.809 --> 00:33:34.880 seen. And if you know, I think there's lots of 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:36.640 things at first, everything seems so overwhelming. 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.480 Teachers are like, we're doing this in class, 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:41.500 we think it's really successful. I think you 00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:43.900 should carry this at home. And then you don't 00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:45.859 carry it at home because you're too tired and 00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:47.460 you can't be bothered. But then you're wondering 00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:49.440 why little Johnny isn't progressing as well. 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.859 You have to also work with them, you know, not 00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:55.819 against them. And at the beginning, I think sometimes 00:33:55.819 --> 00:33:58.000 that was harder. And I was like, I've already 00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.420 got a million things to do. I now don't want 00:33:59.420 --> 00:34:02.579 to do this. And I'd realized then that actually 00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:06.380 he wasn't getting what he could have out of school 00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:10.039 or out of another activity because I wasn't also 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:14.139 implementing it at home, which I think once I 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:17.079 said, thought to myself, okay, it's not the school's 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.780 responsibility to potty train or to get Jude 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:22.460 and Tommy dry. I have to kind of go with exactly 00:34:22.460 --> 00:34:24.800 the method they're going with and we need to 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.420 work together. But then suddenly these things 00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:30.019 start to become easier when you're all just in 00:34:30.019 --> 00:34:32.440 it together. It makes so much sense. It's interesting 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.099 you saying that because I always have, I always 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:37.300 try not to have any expectation of the parents 00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:39.500 to do anything that we're doing at school, which 00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:41.980 is probably wrong. Like I always assume like 00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:43.679 they're learning things that they can't learn 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.980 with us, like bath time, siblings, dynamics, 00:34:47.260 --> 00:34:49.920 family times, days out, like cooking. They're 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.000 the things that we can't necessarily teach. Like 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:53.639 they're still learning. It's just different. 00:34:54.429 --> 00:34:57.369 And I try so hard not to put any expectation 00:34:57.369 --> 00:34:59.010 on parents because like you say, they have so 00:34:59.010 --> 00:35:01.449 much on already. Just the fact that the children 00:35:01.449 --> 00:35:04.590 are coming in safe, happy, regulated and like 00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:07.369 clean as much as you can at the beginning of 00:35:07.369 --> 00:35:09.369 the day. And I'm happy to see them and welcome 00:35:09.369 --> 00:35:11.230 them with loving arms at the end of the day. 00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:13.630 That's what I ask. But it's really interesting 00:35:13.630 --> 00:35:16.409 you say that because, yeah, of course, if parents 00:35:16.409 --> 00:35:19.789 are using AAC at home and the children are using 00:35:19.789 --> 00:35:21.349 it at school, then they are going to make more 00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.329 progress. They just are. And it needs to be the 00:35:24.329 --> 00:35:27.090 same way, you know, because and I think that's 00:35:27.090 --> 00:35:29.409 why it's important. But also it goes secondhand. 00:35:29.429 --> 00:35:30.889 You know, if I'm struggling with toothbrushing 00:35:30.889 --> 00:35:33.610 at home, I bring the toothpaste and the toothbrush 00:35:33.610 --> 00:35:35.920 and say. Let's work on this. And the school are 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:37.960 like, absolutely, let's do that for a month. 00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:39.960 We'll do it with you. We'll do it for you. You 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.719 know, it is a two -way thing. And they are the 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:46.539 first people to help and support. And I now have 00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:49.159 adapted with the way they do things at school. 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.300 We need to do it at home too. But like you say, 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.119 it does work both ways, doesn't it? It's both 00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:58.039 being willing to support and adjust and like 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.039 write social stories for when you're going on 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:02.420 a... family trip but then you are reading the 00:36:02.420 --> 00:36:03.780 social story that's preparing them from a school 00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.460 trip and all of those kind of things it's yeah 00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:07.400 it's doing things to support each other which 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.500 ultimately we're all just here because we adore 00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:13.039 and I don't think you should feel guilty about 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.300 asking parents to work alongside you you know 00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:17.420 we're not just teaching our children phonics 00:36:17.420 --> 00:36:20.599 and you know how to prepare for the SATs we're 00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.639 teaching our children life skills yeah so If 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.739 you're putting in the right structures and the 00:36:25.739 --> 00:36:28.460 communication to support that and help, it needs 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:31.420 to be also at home. And that's when the progress 00:36:31.420 --> 00:36:34.280 really happens. And it is hard work. It is tiring. 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.539 But if you want progress, it is hard work. Yeah, 00:36:37.539 --> 00:36:40.820 it makes sense. That's amazing. I think that's 00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:43.599 a lovely place too. An encouraging place to finish 00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:45.179 for everyone that's listening, whether they are 00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:48.940 school -based or home -based, to ultimately find 00:36:48.940 --> 00:36:53.599 your community. by helping others them helping 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:56.980 in return finding family community support network 00:36:56.980 --> 00:37:00.019 there are people out there that are ready for 00:37:00.019 --> 00:37:01.800 you to support and support we're better together 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.739 basically is what it comes down well they say 00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:06.380 don't they it takes a village but you have to 00:37:06.380 --> 00:37:08.360 invest in that village and you have to build 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.179 it and you have to give back to the village too 00:37:11.179 --> 00:37:14.849 for them to give and help you too so I love that 00:37:14.849 --> 00:37:16.849 so much, Charlotte. Thank you so much for joining 00:37:16.849 --> 00:37:18.550 me. Thanks for having me. It's been so insightful 00:37:18.550 --> 00:37:21.989 sharing your wisdom and I'm sure that everybody 00:37:21.989 --> 00:37:24.510 listening will feel really inspired to kind of 00:37:24.510 --> 00:37:27.949 reach out, I think, is the ultimate. ultimate 00:37:27.949 --> 00:37:31.389 uh aim and focus of this conversation so thank 00:37:31.389 --> 00:37:33.690 you no thanks for having me it's been really 00:37:33.690 --> 00:37:36.690 really nice so everybody go and follow charlotte 00:37:36.690 --> 00:37:40.449 on at twins underscore tides underscore and underscore 00:37:40.449 --> 00:37:43.469 autism underscore vibes so twins tides and autism 00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:46.170 vibes on all social media and then what is the 00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:48.190 saa website because i know people are going to 00:37:48.190 --> 00:37:53.349 ask so the handle is at saa but the website is 00:37:53.349 --> 00:37:58.289 www .saacloving Amazing. Thank you so much Charlotte. 00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:00.769 It's been a pleasure. Thanks Jordan. Bye.