Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today
I'm joined by Ali from School Sensory Solutions
who is an occupational therapist and I'm so pleased
to have her. I don't know if we've had an occupational
therapist on this podcast before. I don't think
we have so welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure
to be here. Really excited to join you. So for
those that don't know, what is occupational therapy
and then how does sensory fit into that. Okay.
Yes. Occupational therapy is one of those words
that people hear, but they don't necessarily
know what it means. So we work across the lifespan.
So it's not just children. We do work from birth
up until death. covering the full lifespan and
with people who have physical disabilities, mental
health difficulties, learning disabilities, again,
across the span there. I think we're one of the
few professions that are trained across every
remit. But essentially what we do is we look
at function, participation, at the things that
somebody either wants to do as part of their
day -to -day life or they need to be able to
do as part of their day -to -day life. And when
they are prevented or are struggling to do those
day -to -day activities for a health reason a
medical reason yeah disability for whatever reason
we can try and figure out what the problem is
and how we can go about fixing that so it's really
broad which is I think why it's quite difficult
to explain my son when he was about oh I don't
know about six seven eight ish he had the best
handle on what I do out of Anybody that I know,
because I'd come home from a day at work and
he'd say to me, oh, mum, you know, who did you
see today? Oh, yeah, I saw Bobby, whatever. And
he'd say to me, what can't they do? And for me,
that was, yeah, he just totally nailed it. Whatever
it is you can't do that you really want to do.
Maybe you want to ride a bike. Maybe you want
to be able to get in the bath. Maybe you want
to be able to go and shop in Sainsbury's for
your dinner. Whatever it is that you really want
to do that you cannot do because of your disability.
then we can try and help with that. And could
that be through exercises, activities, resources,
tools, all that kind of stuff? Yes, we follow
a model called the PEO model. That's the three
areas that we look at. So we look at the person,
what the person can do, what they can't do, their
strengths, their difficulties. We look at the
environment. What can we change in the environment?
Where is the environment causing a problem? And
we look at the occupation. Being an occupational
therapist, it's all about occupation. But I think
we misinterpret that word sometimes because people
think it means work. Well, it can mean work because
work clearly is an occupation, but so is going
to scouts, so is going swimming, so is riding
a bike, so is holding a pencil. All of those
things are daily life occupations, the things
that we need and want to do. So we consider all
of those things and try and figure out how we
can solve the problem. Fantastic. Yeah, that's
such a great explanation. And then I've worked
with lots of different occupational therapists
that have lots of different specialisms or seem
to anyway. You said that you train in everything,
but it seems that people choose like pediatrics
or, you know, and the occupational therapists
that I work with call themselves sensory based
occupational therapists or learning disability
sensory occupational therapists. Does that mean
for you? And where do you sit within that and
kind of let me know a little bit about your,
I suppose, how you... got into the sensory side
of occupational therapy. So yes, our training
covers everything. In some ways, I guess it's
like being a doctor. You then specialise. As
you move through your career, you find an area
that you feel very passionate about and all you
fall into by accident because, yeah, that can
happen. And that's the area that you then choose
to study further, do some extra training on and
really hone your skills and become quite specialised.
So you might see an occupational therapist in
all different settings. predominantly NHS, some
are in social services, some are school -based
working for local educational authorities, and
some of us are in private practice, which is
where I currently sit. So we have different specialities,
one of which would be sensory. So sensory very
often isn't core training for OTs. They might
cover it a little bit at university, but there's
not a huge amount covered. But it is an area
that we can study. post -graduation. So once
you're already a qualified OT, you can go off
and study the sensory side of things. Sensory
processing and integration is the current term
that we are using. And that can be studied up
to master's degree level. So it's quite an intensive
training. So for anyone out there that's working
with an OT or they've got an OT working with
their children, yeah, they may not necessarily
be a sensory trained OT. And if they are, There
are different levels of that training, same as
there are for pretty much everything that we
are doing. That makes so much sense because I've
often had occupational therapists where I've
asked the question, say, I can't offer that or
actually I'm going to close my case with this
child because I've kind of done my bit of what
I can do. And actually, in my mind, I'm thinking.
But there's so many sensory integration stuff
going on with this child. I don't understand
how you can close this case, but that makes so
much more sense. If that isn't their specialism,
if they haven't trained in that, then that is
case closed as far as they can offer, I suppose.
Yes, because the thing that you would want least
of all is somebody working in an area that they
don't have that specialist knowledge in. They
might be an OT, but if they don't have their
specific training in sensory processing and integration,
then you probably wouldn't want them advising
really in depth. Some of it's quite straightforward
and lots of us have got a little bit of knowledge.
When it becomes more complicated, somebody might
be thinking, well, actually, this is outside
of the remit of my speciality. There's always
the risk that we can make things worse if we
don't know what it is that we're doing. So, yeah,
we would close on and pass on to somebody else,
hopefully, who can give you that specialist knowledge
that you need. Which is great that we get access
to you today. Shall we talk about the senses?
So everyone knows the famous five, right? Absolutely.
We've got sight, hearing, smell, taste or touch.
Otherwise known as olfactory and auditory and
those kind of posh words. But really it is seeing,
hearing, smelling. And then we've got some other
less known sensory systems, I suppose. Shall
we talk about those a little bit? Yes, yes, sure.
Because those five that you've talked about,
tell us about the world around us. What's going
on outside of our bodies? What's happening in
the room that we're in? And they give us lots
of information about that. Some of it's when
it hits our body. Yep, the smell, the taste,
that's kind of inside us. But it's telling us
about what's out there. Then we've got three
senses that tell us about what's going on inside
of our bodies. And for me as an OT, these three
are actually really quite key. So we have our
proprioceptive sense. That consists of senses
that are in all of our muscles and our soft tissues
and our joints. And it tells us where our body
is in space and how our body is moving. So when
you are, if you imagine driving your car, when
you move your foot from the accelerator to the
brake, You know where it is. You know how to
get your foot there. That's your proprioceptive
sense working there to tell you where your foot
is and where it needs to move to. And it's also
your proprioceptive sense that tells you how
firmly you need to press on the brake or how
firmly you are pressing on the brake, whether
you're just slowing down gently or whether you
are pressing really firmly on the brake because
someone's run out into the road in front of you.
So your proprioceptive sense tells you all about
where your body is and how your body is moving.
Right, because that's more than touch, isn't
it? Because your touch would feel the brake,
but it's knowing where the brake is in relation
to your foot. Yes, being able to move your foot
to that exact point and know where your foot
is moving. So you don't have to look under the
dashboard to see where that brake is. You know
where it is. You know how to move your foot there.
And that's your proprioceptive. sense and yes
you're right your your touch sense tells you
when you've touched it but then our proprioceptive
sense tells us how firmly we're pressing on it
and lets us grade how firmly we press on it or
when you're writing with a pencil for example
how firmly do you need to press so that it leaves
a mark on the paper but doesn't break the lead
or tear the paper and that might be what people
are seeing in school that might lead them on
to thinking this could be proprioception what
other things might people be seeing with their
learners that might be a flag to, oh, they might
have a sensory integration issue relating to
proprioception. Applying the wrong amount of
force is the really common one that I come across.
So maybe we're hugging and we're hugging too
tightly. We've got that death grip on you. Or
maybe we go to... Pat somebody on the shoulder,
but actually we knock them flying across the
classroom. And it looks like we've hit them and
we've pushed them, but actually we didn't mean
to. We meant to just touch them because we're
applying the wrong amount of force. Or maybe
we are playing with a toy and we break it because
we've been too forceful with our hands because
we haven't understood how much force we're applying
and what's right for the situation that we're
in. Could it also be things like tiptoe walking?
Yes. Or running their hand along. I often see
children running their hand along a wall or maybe
a radiator. It's kind of maybe getting that feedback
through their body in a bit of a stronger way,
maybe. Yes, because our... proprioceptive receptors
sit inside our muscles. When we use our muscles,
we get even more information. So they're working
all of the time. They're telling us where we
are. Anyone that's listening now, if they close
their eyes, they'd know where their hands are.
They know where their feet are because the proprioceptive
system's telling them. But when you work the
muscles, you get more information about that.
you might stand on tiptoes and clench your calf
muscles because actually then that tells you
where your feet are and suddenly you know where
your feet are and perhaps you didn't before you
did that. The other reason you might do that
is that our proprioceptive system is very regulating.
we get a huge amount of regulation through our
proprioception. So we also might get extra proprioception
from clenching our calf muscles, walking on tiptoes,
because that's helping us feel calm and cope
in the situation that we're in at the moment.
Yeah, that makes so much sense. That makes so
much sense. Could proprioception also be in relation,
I don't know the answer to this, could proprioception
also be in relation to not being able to communicate
if they don't know? where their lips are and
tongue is it would make sense to me that they
struggle to then form sounds even if there's
not a physical reason is that right absolutely
yes because we have a very big muscle inside
our mouths called our tongue and we have all
the muscles that work are the outside of our
mouths our lips as you say so when we have a
well -developed sense of proprioception. We know
how our mouth is moving. You could put a sweet
in your mouth and you could move it around from
one cheek to the other and do cartwheels with
it on your tongue if you felt like it because
you know how to move your mouth to do that. If
your proprioceptive sense isn't firing terribly
well, if our brain isn't interpreting all those
sensations really clearly, then maybe we don't
know where our mouth is and we don't know how
it's moving. So eating might be tricky, speaking
might be tricky because we've got to move our
mouth in really precise ways to get those speech
sounds correct. It also makes sense why they
would want crunchy foods maybe because it would
give them more feedback to know where their mouth
is moving to therefore then to the foods, whereas
soft foods obviously don't give them that sense.
Don't take much effort. And maybe if we're just
eating soft foods, we might actually try and
get some of that crunch in another way, maybe
by putting other things in our mouths or even
biting. Yeah, and that's when chewy is kind of...
kind of become can be really helpful can be helpful
amazing another thing just before we move on
from proprioception one thing I find really fascinating
about proprioception is in lots of the other
senses you can be over responsive or under responsive
can't you you can either be almost like hesitant
of it or you can be seeking it but with proprioception
I find they're only ever seeking it you can't
be too proprioceptive aware which i just find
really fascinating about that particular sense
is could are you able to expand on my understanding
of what that means or yes it's why i call proprioception
on magic sense because Sometimes, I think I said
earlier, when we're looking at doing sensory
interventions, there's the risk that we could
get things wrong and we could make things a little
bit worse. But actually, proprioception is magic
because it only ever helps us. It's fantastic.
So it's a great first line of defence for any
teacher or a parent that's trying to help their
child. So you're quite right. Most of our senses,
we can be over responsive, we can be under responsive,
we can be a little bit of a mix between them
for some things as well. But proprioception,
we only ever crave more of. So we can't, you
can't think, oh, I could be giving too much and
that could cause a problem. It's really unlikely.
I would never say never because kids are really
unique, aren't they? There's bound to be one
somewhere to it. But as a rule, note, we are
never over responsive to it. So proprioception
can only ever be a good thing. It's only ever
something that we want, that we need more of.
And because it's such a powerful regulator, we
can then use it to help children regulate. really
regardless of what the problem is, because our
proprioceptive sense also has a bit of an overriding
impact on all of our other senses. So it might
sound a bit weird to say, if somebody's really
struggling with a noise, give them some proprioception
because it's going to help. It's going to help
them cope with it. What does that look like?
I'm constantly aware that I'm squeezing children.
And sometimes when I visit nurseries or main
like mainstream nurseries I have to really really
remind myself not to squeeze the children because
it's just so ingrained in me to give them deep
pressure arm squeezes down their arms or even
just a hand hold sometimes that kind of pulsing
pressure on their hands or all my children love
head squeezes and they'll really lean into a
head squeeze What other things can we offer as
well as that, I suppose? So there's a couple
of things there. I'll talk about the other things
that you can offer. But I'm going to unpick a
little bit some of the things that you've just
said, just to be a bit techie. Because I don't
understand why. I know it works, but I don't
really understand why. Well, yeah, I'm a bit
of a sensory geek as well. So when you are just
squeezing somebody, what you're actually giving
them is deep pressure, which, strictly speaking,
is part of the tactile system, not the proprioceptive
system. The nitty gritty doesn't really matter
because it works. And the important thing is
that we get things that work rather than particularly
what we call them. But yeah, I have to have my
little geeky moment and say, yeah, if we're just
doing the squeezes for somebody, then really
that's deep pressure. When it's proprioception
is when they're moving and they're working their
muscles. So if they're squeezing you back. they're
getting some proprioception because their muscles
are working. If they're lying under a weighted
blanket, then we've got that deep pressure touch.
But if they start pushing against that weighted
blanket, then we get proprioception. It's really
hard to unpick the difference. And does it matter?
Not in the real world. No, it doesn't. But in
my geeky moments, I kind of have to come in and
say, that one's tactile. Yeah, that is helpful
for me to know. Lots of my children like seesaw
row the boat kind of actions, movements. So that
would be the proprioception. Proprioception because
we're working our muscles. So when you're asking
what other things children can do or staff, parents
can do to help with children, anything that works
their muscles is going to really help. And I
know that's really, really open, but it means
you can tap into what a child's interests are.
So if one likes row, row the boat, that's great.
If one likes rolling over a gym ball and pushing
on the floor or pushing against the gym ball,
then that's brilliant. If someone else likes
going for a walk with a weighted backpack, then
that's brilliant. So we can really leave it wide
open so that we can tap into what the child might
want to do, what they might want to engage with.
because we've got to get it done, haven't we,
in order for it to help and then get that regulating
input into them. Fantastic. And you can't do
too much of it, which is really great to know.
So kind of experiment with it, go along with
your children, see what they're naturally doing
anyway, because my God, our learners are so great
at finding ways, however safe or unsafe they
are, they certainly find ways of trying to meet
and regulate those needs. So maybe see what they're
already doing and try and find another way or
a way of joining them. Like biting that you talked
about, that's somebody trying to seek that proprioceptive
input to this big muscle that we have here that
attaches this part of our jaw to our skull. And
they're seeking that. So they're trying to help
themselves, which actually is a nice way to frame
it, isn't it? We've got a child that's trying
to treat themselves, trying to help themselves.
They've just got the technique a little bit wrong.
And maybe we can give them something else to
do with their mouth that's going to replace.
The bit that we don't want them to do by biting
something that's harmful or biting other people
or whatever they might do. Maybe they have crunchy
snacks. Maybe they have a textured chewy or a
vibrating chewy or there's so many things, isn't
there? Lots of movements and things, but that
isn't biting your friend or an unsafe toy or
something. Absolutely. It's a question I get
lots, actually, about biting and hitting. And
I do often think it's meeting both needs, isn't
it? It's meeting that social interaction and
really need for something back. And maybe that's
the easiest way to get it. So it's kind of communication
and social interaction in that way. But it is
also that regulating proprioceptive seeking tool,
isn't it? Absolutely, yeah. that meets their
needs far quicker than being able to go and get
their communication device, you know, ask for
their chewy or ask for a snack or wait till snack
time, you know. So maybe I suppose the answer
is to make it even easier to meet it safely.
So have the crunchy snacks just out and always
available. Have their communication device always
available. Input social interaction games and
cause and effect games in, you know, all of those
kind of things and all of that movement. Yeah.
Brilliant. So let's move on to the next one.
What one would you like to talk about next? Shall
we do vestibular next? Because that one works
so closely with our proprioceptive system. The
two kind of go hand in hand. So our vestibular
sense sits inside our ear, in our inner ear with
all of our hearing apparatus. And that one picks
up movement of our head. So proprioception does
the body. Vestibular tells us where our head
is and how our head is moving. And it helps us
stay upright. So it picks up gravity. So we know
when we are upright and it knows when we're listing
off to one side and we're not upright anymore
and we need to do something to change that or
we're going to fall over. So the proprioceptive
sense tells us a lot about where we are, where
we are in space. It's that one sense where you
can get really badly wrong. When I went back
to talk about how we can get some things wrong
and proprioception. is magic because we can't.
Some bits of vestibular sense, or struggling
at my words now, are very calming and regulating
and other bits really wake us up and super alert
us. So things where we're moving in a straight
line, in a linear manner, so maybe we're going
forwards and backwards or maybe we're going up
and down and we're moving in a very predictable
way, a very rhythmical way, that generally will
be quite regulating for somebody quite calming
and organising. Whereas actually, if we're spinning
around and we're going upside down and our head's
going all over the place and we're moving in
a non -rhythmical, non -predictable way, that
can be highly alerting for somebody. So when
you're looking at maybe a child who is seeking
out some vestibular input, you might see that
they're looking for the linear, rhythmical, calming
input, or they're looking for the spinning, going
upside down, exciting input. And then we can
take that. And like we said, with the proprioception,
we can take that and find ways and building sessions
that offer them that, either that, you know,
either way, either the rhythmic or not. And we'll
talk about sensory circuits and sensory diet
in a little bit, but that's where that knowledge
comes in, doesn't it? It does, it does, because
they tackle those movement senses, our proprioception
and our vestibular. And those two senses work
so closely together to let us move. to do things
in daily life. So to stay upright in my chair
now, I'm using my vestibular sense to make sure
that I'm staying upright all of the time. If
I'm walking around the room, I'm using my vestibular
sense to stay upright and negotiate the environment.
I'm using my proprioceptive sense to know where
my body is as I weave in and out of the tables
and the chairs. So they work really closely.
And for any child who doesn't process information
from those senses very well, they're going to
have difficulties with their movement and their
coordination. So what you're going to see is
a clumsy child who's not moving in that well
-coordinated way, bumping into things, falling
over things, using the wrong amount of force,
maybe being a bit scared to move as well. Yeah,
I was going to say that I've got some children
that are really scared of stepping down steps
or even sitting back on their chair, almost like
that. You can see the fear of falling as they're
sitting back on their chair. It's that, isn't
it? It's that inner ear nervousness of that backwards
motion. Absolutely. Yeah. So we can be under
responsive or over responsive and whichever one
we either are then very fearful of the movement
because we don't like the movement or because
we don't have a great idea of where we are in
space. So that movement then becomes really scary.
And moving backwards in space is a particular
one. Yeah. And then I also have other children
that are on the swing and could not swing high
enough. You know, you can just see that they
could be going loop to loop and they don't get
dizzy and they absolutely, or they, I don't know
if they do get dizzy, but they don't seem to.
And they just always like the more, the better.
They couldn't do enough to just seek that constantly.
They would be on the swing all day if they could.
So, and then I've got other children that's...
who struggle to sit back on their chair and it's
all vestibular. It's all vestibular. The other
end of the scale, I suppose. Absolutely, yeah.
One extreme to the other. Either we have a very
high threshold, so we're on the swing, we're
seeking lots and lots and lots because we really
want lots. It makes us feel good. It tells us
where our body is. Yeah, just makes us at peace
with the world. And then the other extreme with
those very low thresholds who don't want a lot.
It's too much. Would that change child to child
or would that change day to day? today? It generally
is more child to child. And then we have the
aging process. So I know my vestibular system
is now very different to how it was when I was
a teenager. I was a teenager and, you know, put
me on a roller coaster and I'd be happy as Larry,
could go on it several times, think that was
cracking. Now, yeah, no thanks. That's going
to make me feel really sick. I'm going to be
really dizzy. I'm not going to, in fact, I really,
really, really don't want to do it. It's a good
thing about my children now being adults is they
can go and do that sort of thing on their own
because I am so past it. So my vestibular system
has changed as I've ate. So it does develop,
it does evolve, but not day to day. It's more
of a long term evolving. So if you've got your
child for a year or two, more often than not,
it would, if they're seeking, they would be seeking
for those years and or vice versa. Yes, it won't
really change in the moment. Everybody does have
a threshold. So you might have a child who seeks,
seeks, seeks, and then they hit that threshold
and then anything extra is too much for them.
I did once have a very memorable child that I
was treating in sensory integration clinic using
a swing and we did a great session and I took
her right to the limit of her threshold and thought
it was brilliant until she got in the car to
go home. And that car journey, the movement that
that gave her, the input on her vestibular system
just tipped her over the edge. And she was car
sick. Lesson firmly learned for me that I needed
to keep her a little bit lower under her thresholds
next time because yeah, anything extra. So the
only things you'd want to watch out for is maybe,
especially if somebody's got a long journey home
on the minibus, particularly because some of
our kids who arrive at school on minibuses have
horrifically long journeys. Just make sure we
don't do anything to tip them over the edge.
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I find
the same with swimming as well, actually. If
we've done a sensory circuit before swimming,
it can become incredibly alerting in so many
ways. Yeah. Shall we talk about interoception?
Interoception, yeah. So interoception, we are
calling our eighth sense. It's the newest one
that we've really learned. about recently, probably
over about the last 10 years, we've been learning
more and more. Though now we look back, actually,
we know that it was referred to years ago. So
it's not a new sense, but we're learning more
about it more recently. That's our sense inside
our bodies that tells us what's going on inside
of our body. And we've got senses through all
the organs inside our body that tell us about
how that organ is feeling. So our interoceptive
sense tells us when we need the toilet, for example.
but gives you lots of information about it. So
you'd know when are you next going to need to
go to the loo? Yeah. If you've got an hour or
two, if you've got 10 minutes or so, do you need
to get up and go right now? What are you going
to do when you go to the loo? As in, are you
going to have a wee or a poo? There's normally
a bingo game of how soon, how long before I mention
poo in anything that I do while we're on that
half an hour. Hey, this is a safe space. It always
crops up somewhere there. So it tells us that
sort of thing. It tells us when we're hungry,
when we're thirsty, whether we're full up. But
it also tells us about our emotions because we
feel our emotions as physical sensations inside
of us. That fluttering of butterflies in your
tummy, that increased heart rate, sweaty palms,
all tells you that you're maybe anxious about
something. So our interoceptive sense is really
important for telling us about what our body
needs. And we need to know. what we need in order
to be able to provide it and regulate in that
way, even if it's being hungry. I know I certainly
get really, really hungry. So I need to detect
when it's hunger, when it's anger, which one
it is, and then I take the right steps to do
something about it. It makes so much sense as
you're talking, when you're saying about feeling
too hot, not knowing if you're sweaty, not knowing
if you're hungry, not knowing if you're full,
not knowing how you're really feeling. I mean,
there are so many tick boxes there that look
like autism. You know, it's so interwoven in
the autism. sphere isn't it these needs are toileting
as well lots of my learners are in pads show
very little awareness of needing to go or having
gone and it all makes so much sense once you
learn about that interoception you can understand
why um even if they physically can it may be
that inner sense isn't isn't telling them what's
actually going on And then when we think about
regulation and working towards self -regulation,
we can see how difficult that is because to do
the thing to help us regulate, we need to know
what it is that we need. So I've sometimes hearing
schools that pupils are taught strategies and
they know, they know when they're feeling angry,
they know to go and do X, Y and Z, but they're
not using it. And I hear that one really frequently.
And for me, that always makes me think about
interception, because if you didn't realize that
you were getting angry, you're not going to go
and do the strategy that you've been given. And
it doesn't matter how good the strategy is and
how well you've been taught it and how well you're
supported to use it if you don't actually know
that now is the time that you need to go and
do that. The more children I talk to are verbal
kids that can explain this, the more I realise
that actually, yeah, they don't know. We can't
take it for read that they do know. Sometimes
we need to step in and we need to say, right,
we're recognising the signal. So we're going
to help you do this thing that we think will
be really helpful for you. That comes down to
having a really great and trusting relationship
with the child, knowing them really well and
being able to know what their normal is, where
that sits and what is unusual for that child,
which means you have to know them incredibly
well. And you also have to have already had the
conversation regularly probably about what we
do when we're feeling, you know, in the moment
of feeling really sad or really angry or really
excited is not the time to introduce. a new thing
so have it regularly when they're regulated when
they're feeling focused and calm and ready and
and yeah regulated i suppose and then in those
moments then you can say i can see that or do
you think you're feeling this so i can see you're
feeling this um Do you remember that box that
we created? You know, and then, or no verbal
at all, actually, often with my learners, you
just kind of get it out and have it there. But
having those conversations before that moment
is incredibly helpful, isn't it? And talking
about how those body sensations feel, if you've
got a child that would understand that, you might
say, oh, do you know what? My tummy's really
rumbly and my head feels a little bit dizzy and
my muscles feel all floppy. I wonder what's going
on for me here. I think I could be hungry. I'm
going to go and have something to eat. Because
we don't talk to kids like that. We assume that
they learn these things like, what does hunger
feel like? And what do I need to do to put it
right? But not all of our kids learn this. No,
so we need to think out loud. Yeah, thinking
out loud helps with lots of things, doesn't it?
It does. And just thinking about how those things
actually feel, labelling those things. And modeling
that as adults, maybe if we're feeling a bit
fidgety or if we're feeling excited or if we're
feeling hungry or tired or poorly, we could be
modeling that. I've got the zones of regulation
behind me, actually. And I purposefully put the
adults' photos on our zones of regulation board
so that throughout the day, we could be aware
of how we're feeling, which is actually incredibly
helpful for me, which made me question a lot
of things about myself, to be honest, because
I... Without it, I was unaware of how I was feeling
and how that was changing throughout the day.
But also so that the children could see a model
of it's all good. We can change throughout the
day and this is what we need to get there. So
I had adults supporting adults wearing chews
around their neck and using chews, wearing ear
defenders, taking their jumper off. sitting down
you know all of those kind of things and modeling
it out loud so that it was just happening without
the expectation that the children would join
too but it's just happening and the idea is that
hopefully they would they would pick up on some
of those things yes and for our verbal kids that
we're using zones of regulation with knowing
that the aim isn't to be on the green zone all
the time. The aim is to be able to move between
zones so that you're in the right zone for the
thing that you're doing at the time. But I think
we can get sometimes hung up on we want to be
on the green zone. Yeah, I did visit a school
the other day that one of the children, it killed
me to hear this, but one of the children said,
we're a green zone class. And I thought, oh no,
it's just the traffic light system refreshed.
And I said, sometimes I'm quick. day and my birthday
I feel in the red zone you know and sometimes
when I'm you know had a really hard day I feel
in the red zone and and that's perfectly normal
and after a really nice big lunch I'll be very
blue zone yeah that's okay and that is completely
normal so yeah I think I think a lot of learning
needs to be done around that I think it can easily
turn into control and compliance yes very easily
Which kind of leads me on to seeing sensory,
all the sensory stuff as behavior instead of
being curious as to the why. You've explained
beautifully as to the why over the last 40 minutes
in this podcast. So now my listeners will be
curious. I know they will. Next time they're
seeing these kind of behaviors, they won't be
seeing them as difficult, challenging, all those
kind of words that we hear. But I really hope
that they're then curious as to why, what's really
going on there, which kind of leads me on to
sensory circuits. words and sensory diets kind
of thrown around like everybody should and is
doing it but I'd love to hear your take on what
that looks like how it's most useful and how
it I don't know yeah I don't want to kind of
put too many words in your head I'd love to hear
your thoughts on sensory circuits. Yeah, you're
right. So much behaviour is sensory driven. Not
all of it. Of course, there's umpteen reasons
why children behave the way that they do. And
partly why I love working with kids so much is
because I'm investigating. what could it be because
I need to know what it could be so that I can
try and solve the problem but a lot of the time
yes it is sensory it has a huge impact on somebody's
ability to participate in their day enjoy their
day enjoy the things that they're doing enjoy
the environment that they're in and If we can
meet their sensory needs, then we can just make
that whole day nicer for them. We've all got
sensory needs, all of us. We all have our individual
sensory preferences. For example, I like to work
in silence. I like a really quiet environment.
My teenage daughter likes to listen to music
while she works. We're in the same room together.
If we were in the same class, it becomes very
hard because her needs are to listen to music.
My needs are to have silence. So when we're doing...
Sensory diets, for example, that's about trying
to meet the individual needs of somebody and
give them what they need to make that environment
right for them. So give them more of the sensations
that they need, take away some of the sensations
that they don't need, and maybe give them more
of sensations that they would find calming or
regulating or grounding, whichever word you choose
to use to apply that. that too circuits and sensory
diet so that's a way of making it individual
isn't it so the music one is great is a great
example because you've either got music on or
haven't but what if we offer headphones maybe
for a child that does what music that is something
that you could do in class then doesn't impact
everybody else yes so i mean like musical headphones
or headphones learner that doesn't want the music
or maybe pick carefully about what music you
have on or maybe it's actually white noise that
helps them and then actually that helps everybody
maybe you know it's it's it's all about experimentation
isn't it it is and see what happens it's not
an exact science so I can't look at a child and
go ah they need x y and z and everything will
be fine it is trial and error to try and figure
it out especially if they can't tell us what
it is that's going on and lots can't because
They may not have the cognitive ability. They
may not have the verbal ability. If their interception
isn't good, they may not know why it doesn't
feel right. They'll just know that it doesn't
feel right. And we've got to help them unpick
that. And then, so that sensory diet, that's
more individual. What about sensory circuits?
How does that fit in as part of that? conversation
yeah if we can get things right on an individual
basis that's brilliant and I know you're using
the term sensory diets I quite like there's a
few other terms being floated around I quite
like sensory lifestyle as a bit of that yeah
because that means it's more consistent yes and
it's what you need in the environment around
you for your life so that one feels quite nice
to me sensory circuits are a really good way
of meeting the needs of a lot of children most
of the time because we're giving them the input
that regulates most children most of the time.
And sometimes when we're in schools, we can't
do all of the individual needs all of the time
because... It's the real world. Things don't
always work that way. So sensory circuits can
be a fantastic way of getting lots and lots of
regulating movement input in for a child to really
sort their nervous system out, if you like, so
that the rest of the day becomes okay, becomes
things that they can cope with. So it's a great
almost one size fits all with a few little tweaks.
And sometimes we have to do the best we can with
what we've got to work with, don't we? And movement,
sensory circuits, sensory movement breaks, whatever
we're calling them, can work brilliantly for
that. Yeah, there's like maybe a three -step
approach. So alerting and then organising and
grounding. I've spoken about this lots before
on my account if you're not sure. Do all children
necessarily need... To start with alerting though.
That's a brilliant question. I might have to
kiss you now for raising that one, you know.
Only because it's something I've been experimenting
with. If they're already alert, do they need
more alerting to like let it go in a safe way?
Or are they already alert and you do organizing?
Yeah, it's a really good question. I totally
agree. Your traditional circuits have those three
areas. And if you don't know where to start,
that's a really great place to start. Do some
alerting, do some organising, then do some grounding
or calming activities. But no, you're right.
Not all children need it. And like all good rules,
they are there to be broken, aren't they? So
not all children do need the alerting activities.
If you've got a child who's already looking like
they're a little bit in that fight flight zone,
then actually an alerting activity might be really
wrong for them. It might even take them further
along that fight or flight response because it's
scary and they're not in a good place to do it.
So no, you can mix and match. You might have
somebody that just wants some grounding activities
or some calming activities. You might have somebody
that needs lots more alerting activities. It
might depend on the child. it might depend on
the time of day. Maybe we arrive at school and
we're sort of hyper alert because the transition
in the morning has all been quite stressful and
we need to come in and have a little bit of a
calming session, a little bit of a grounding
session to feel okay to then go into class and
carry on. Maybe after lunch we've had a big dinner,
we're a little bit sleepy, we need some more
alerting stuff to wake us up and tune us in to
what's going on on the world around us. So those
Yeah, you can mess around with them and test
it. See what happens. See what's right for the
child. Organising stuff is brilliant. It comes
back to that proprioceptive input. We can't really
go wrong with those on the whole. If somebody
was in crisis, I perhaps wouldn't do it. But
on the whole, they work for everybody. So they're
a really good place to be. And it's quite a wide
span of organising activities, isn't there? There
could be obstacle courses. So you're moving quite
gross motor. wise rolling and all those kind
of things balancing but also it can be some quite
fine motor stuff we do some threading and puzzles
and sorting is is also organizing so also within
organizing have a think about does it look like
gross motor balancing that they need or does
it look like quiet organizing and sorting alphabet
for example maybe that grounds them I always
like to explain it to my teaching assistants
as when I'm stressed I like to write a list on
my phone like a little tick box because that
helps me see everything that I need and feel
organized and in control and that's basically
what the organizing is offering for our children
whether that's getting their body in control
in a quite a physical way or sorting out all
the thoughts in their mind and lots of my learners
find either sorting colors by rainbow order or
sorting the alphabet or sorting numbers makes
things feel in control because ultimately lots
of our learners have so little control over their
lives and their bodies and their voice and everything
that actually by giving them those opportunities
to practice control within their special interests
can be really regulating even if they don't need
the alerting and the grounding so I really do
like the organizing part of it actually and then
for me The alerting and the grounding are quite
child -specific. I can think of some learners
that I certainly wouldn't want to finish with
grounding because they're sluggish and slow normally.
That certainly wouldn't help them focus or concentrate
in whatever we're doing next if we were to finish
with grounding. But same for lots of my learners.
I've got lots of climbers and jumpers and throwers
in my room that if I was to do too much alerting,
then we also weren't going to get focused and
still either. So it is also about knowing your
class. And that flexibility within that as well,
isn't there? Absolutely, yes. Feel free to break
the rules sometimes and do what works for your
individual learner. And remembering their individual
preferences as well, because what might be calming
to one person might not be fun. Digging the garden,
that would be a great proprioceptive input. I
don't want to do that. Thank you very much. I
really, really don't want to do that. I'd rather
go and do something else. So again, it's recognising
that although it might be a grounding activity.
for somebody, that might really wind them up
because they don't like it. Yeah, so it could
meet their needs on a practical level really
well, but actually if it's not of interest to
them and it feels forceful in a way, then that's
actually not going to be regulating. In fact,
that's going to be quite heightening, even if
the actual thing is grounding. Yes, and that's
sometimes where I see things go wrong in classes
because you do something that the textbook says
should do this thing and it doesn't and you don't
know why. And it's always worth thinking about
individual preferences and how the activity has
been done. I suppose it's about approach as well,
isn't it? You know, how are you approaching it?
Is it what are the adults doing in that situation?
Are they controlling the activity and kind of
forcing the activity? Or are they just doing
the activity and making it as fun and as motivating
as possible? Are they planning for activities
that they know the children will like because
they're really similar to what they're already
naturally doing or their special interests? It's
how it's sold as well, I think. If I was to say,
like, my children love the obstacle courses.
They really love it. But if I was to say to lots
of my pupils, if I was to stand there and say,
right, off you go, and treat it like a work task
or treat it like a... you know, this is something
for you to do and you have to do it and then
you can get what you want. It wouldn't work.
It wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't be motivating
and they wouldn't get anything out of it. In
fact, they find it really heightening or boring.
Whereas if all of the supporting adults are doing
it and being silly and modelling how fun it is
and adapting to whatever the children want to
do and being quite child -led in that way, it
makes the exact same activity. very very different
outcome absolutely yes children learn through
play they want to engage in things that are fun
yeah get release your inner child I always say
in my training this is your license to release
your inner child get in there and play and enjoy
it yeah enjoying the fun that's the best bit
of this job I think that we just get to play
so why wouldn't we what a wonderful way to finish
where can people find you ali so i am school
sensory solutions i am busiest on facebook i
need to get a handle on instagram and get more
on there but you'll find me on both of those
and linkedin as well so i run training courses
for schools particularly anyone that works in
education in fact to try and upskill people about
these kind of things and give you the confidence
to actually go into class, identify those sensory
issues and come up with a plan that is going
to work and is going to fit into the real world
as well, be totally achievable. So where School
Sensory Solutions kind of does what it says on
the tin, I'm trying to help you come up with
those solutions for any sensory issues that you
have in class. And is that in -person or virtual
or both? Both, predominantly virtual, because
part of the best thing I think to come out of
COVID was we all learnt these virtual skills.
So it makes it accessible and it also makes it
really cost effective. And going back to being
in the real world, I know how tight budgets are,
but I'm also available for face -to -face as
well, should anyone want that. That's fantastic.
So open to everybody listening. If you are wanting
to learn more, either for your own needs, for
children, for home, for school, then if you've
learned something today, but want to learn more,
then definitely get in touch with School Sensory
Solutions. Thanks. I have a sensory champion
award because I think every school needs a sensory
champion that can really drive these things forward.
So my training's geared at equipping you with
the skills to be able to be that sensory champion
for your school. Fantastic. And have you got
a resource coming out? I have. Well, I've got
some ready done sensory circuits, some downloadable
print and off you go sensory circuits. I've got
three already that are based around dinosaurs,
space and going through the jungle because who
doesn't like those? And the idea is you download
them and you have some little activity cards.
I've got some here that I've done on a lanyard.
They've all got a coloured border so you know
whether the activity is... alerting, organising
or calming. So it tells you a little bit about
the effect that that's going to have. And then
I've got a new one that I'm just finishing having
illustrated, which is 101 sensory activities
that you can do, sensory diet, sensory circuit
activities. So hopefully another grab and go.
takes that thinking out and that pressure. Lots
of it's got no equipment and doesn't have any
space requirements. So you can just pick it up
and go anywhere. Some of your more traditional
sensory circuit activities with your obstacle
courses that you talked about. But it takes you
through all of that and stops you needing to
think and plan. Which actually is the bit that
we don't always have time to do and can be absolutely
the barrier to it. So yeah, they're downloadable
so you can print any size. A4, lanyard, thumbnail.
What else? I've got some little sensory, little
individual timetable strips. So there you go.
There's some dinosaurs there for you. Who doesn't
like those? Absolutely. I don't know anyone who
doesn't like dinosaurs. That's fantastic. So
if they want to get involved in, follow School
Sensory Solutions on Instagram and Facebook and
check out the website for all of that good stuff.
Thank you so much, Ali. Thank you for having
me. It's been an absolute pleasure.