WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education

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teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything

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communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson

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ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged

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4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in

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the field answering your questions and sharing

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our knowledge and experience working alongside

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our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory

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Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today

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I'm joined by Ali from School Sensory Solutions

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who is an occupational therapist and I'm so pleased

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to have her. I don't know if we've had an occupational

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therapist on this podcast before. I don't think

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we have so welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure

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to be here. Really excited to join you. So for

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those that don't know, what is occupational therapy

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and then how does sensory fit into that. Okay.

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Yes. Occupational therapy is one of those words

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that people hear, but they don't necessarily

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know what it means. So we work across the lifespan.

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So it's not just children. We do work from birth

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up until death. covering the full lifespan and

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with people who have physical disabilities, mental

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health difficulties, learning disabilities, again,

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across the span there. I think we're one of the

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few professions that are trained across every

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remit. But essentially what we do is we look

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at function, participation, at the things that

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somebody either wants to do as part of their

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day -to -day life or they need to be able to

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do as part of their day -to -day life. And when

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they are prevented or are struggling to do those

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day -to -day activities for a health reason a

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medical reason yeah disability for whatever reason

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we can try and figure out what the problem is

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and how we can go about fixing that so it's really

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broad which is I think why it's quite difficult

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to explain my son when he was about oh I don't

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know about six seven eight ish he had the best

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handle on what I do out of Anybody that I know,

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because I'd come home from a day at work and

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he'd say to me, oh, mum, you know, who did you

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see today? Oh, yeah, I saw Bobby, whatever. And

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he'd say to me, what can't they do? And for me,

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that was, yeah, he just totally nailed it. Whatever

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it is you can't do that you really want to do.

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Maybe you want to ride a bike. Maybe you want

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to be able to get in the bath. Maybe you want

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to be able to go and shop in Sainsbury's for

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your dinner. Whatever it is that you really want

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to do that you cannot do because of your disability.

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then we can try and help with that. And could

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that be through exercises, activities, resources,

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tools, all that kind of stuff? Yes, we follow

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a model called the PEO model. That's the three

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areas that we look at. So we look at the person,

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what the person can do, what they can't do, their

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strengths, their difficulties. We look at the

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environment. What can we change in the environment?

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Where is the environment causing a problem? And

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we look at the occupation. Being an occupational

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therapist, it's all about occupation. But I think

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we misinterpret that word sometimes because people

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think it means work. Well, it can mean work because

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work clearly is an occupation, but so is going

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to scouts, so is going swimming, so is riding

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a bike, so is holding a pencil. All of those

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things are daily life occupations, the things

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that we need and want to do. So we consider all

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of those things and try and figure out how we

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can solve the problem. Fantastic. Yeah, that's

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such a great explanation. And then I've worked

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with lots of different occupational therapists

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that have lots of different specialisms or seem

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to anyway. You said that you train in everything,

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but it seems that people choose like pediatrics

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or, you know, and the occupational therapists

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that I work with call themselves sensory based

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occupational therapists or learning disability

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sensory occupational therapists. Does that mean

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for you? And where do you sit within that and

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kind of let me know a little bit about your,

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I suppose, how you... got into the sensory side

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of occupational therapy. So yes, our training

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covers everything. In some ways, I guess it's

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like being a doctor. You then specialise. As

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you move through your career, you find an area

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that you feel very passionate about and all you

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fall into by accident because, yeah, that can

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happen. And that's the area that you then choose

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to study further, do some extra training on and

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really hone your skills and become quite specialised.

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So you might see an occupational therapist in

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all different settings. predominantly NHS, some

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are in social services, some are school -based

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working for local educational authorities, and

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some of us are in private practice, which is

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where I currently sit. So we have different specialities,

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one of which would be sensory. So sensory very

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often isn't core training for OTs. They might

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cover it a little bit at university, but there's

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not a huge amount covered. But it is an area

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that we can study. post -graduation. So once

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you're already a qualified OT, you can go off

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and study the sensory side of things. Sensory

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processing and integration is the current term

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that we are using. And that can be studied up

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to master's degree level. So it's quite an intensive

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training. So for anyone out there that's working

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with an OT or they've got an OT working with

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their children, yeah, they may not necessarily

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be a sensory trained OT. And if they are, There

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are different levels of that training, same as

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there are for pretty much everything that we

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are doing. That makes so much sense because I've

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often had occupational therapists where I've

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asked the question, say, I can't offer that or

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actually I'm going to close my case with this

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child because I've kind of done my bit of what

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I can do. And actually, in my mind, I'm thinking.

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But there's so many sensory integration stuff

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going on with this child. I don't understand

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how you can close this case, but that makes so

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much more sense. If that isn't their specialism,

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if they haven't trained in that, then that is

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case closed as far as they can offer, I suppose.

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Yes, because the thing that you would want least

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of all is somebody working in an area that they

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don't have that specialist knowledge in. They

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might be an OT, but if they don't have their

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specific training in sensory processing and integration,

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then you probably wouldn't want them advising

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really in depth. Some of it's quite straightforward

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and lots of us have got a little bit of knowledge.

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When it becomes more complicated, somebody might

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be thinking, well, actually, this is outside

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of the remit of my speciality. There's always

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the risk that we can make things worse if we

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don't know what it is that we're doing. So, yeah,

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we would close on and pass on to somebody else,

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hopefully, who can give you that specialist knowledge

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that you need. Which is great that we get access

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to you today. Shall we talk about the senses?

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So everyone knows the famous five, right? Absolutely.

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We've got sight, hearing, smell, taste or touch.

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Otherwise known as olfactory and auditory and

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those kind of posh words. But really it is seeing,

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hearing, smelling. And then we've got some other

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less known sensory systems, I suppose. Shall

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we talk about those a little bit? Yes, yes, sure.

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Because those five that you've talked about,

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tell us about the world around us. What's going

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on outside of our bodies? What's happening in

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the room that we're in? And they give us lots

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of information about that. Some of it's when

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it hits our body. Yep, the smell, the taste,

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that's kind of inside us. But it's telling us

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about what's out there. Then we've got three

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senses that tell us about what's going on inside

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of our bodies. And for me as an OT, these three

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are actually really quite key. So we have our

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proprioceptive sense. That consists of senses

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that are in all of our muscles and our soft tissues

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and our joints. And it tells us where our body

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is in space and how our body is moving. So when

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you are, if you imagine driving your car, when

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you move your foot from the accelerator to the

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brake, You know where it is. You know how to

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get your foot there. That's your proprioceptive

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sense working there to tell you where your foot

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is and where it needs to move to. And it's also

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your proprioceptive sense that tells you how

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firmly you need to press on the brake or how

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firmly you are pressing on the brake, whether

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you're just slowing down gently or whether you

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are pressing really firmly on the brake because

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someone's run out into the road in front of you.

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So your proprioceptive sense tells you all about

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where your body is and how your body is moving.

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Right, because that's more than touch, isn't

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it? Because your touch would feel the brake,

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but it's knowing where the brake is in relation

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to your foot. Yes, being able to move your foot

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to that exact point and know where your foot

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is moving. So you don't have to look under the

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dashboard to see where that brake is. You know

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where it is. You know how to move your foot there.

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And that's your proprioceptive. sense and yes

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you're right your your touch sense tells you

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when you've touched it but then our proprioceptive

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sense tells us how firmly we're pressing on it

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and lets us grade how firmly we press on it or

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when you're writing with a pencil for example

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how firmly do you need to press so that it leaves

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a mark on the paper but doesn't break the lead

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or tear the paper and that might be what people

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are seeing in school that might lead them on

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to thinking this could be proprioception what

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other things might people be seeing with their

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learners that might be a flag to, oh, they might

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have a sensory integration issue relating to

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proprioception. Applying the wrong amount of

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force is the really common one that I come across.

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So maybe we're hugging and we're hugging too

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tightly. We've got that death grip on you. Or

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maybe we go to... Pat somebody on the shoulder,

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but actually we knock them flying across the

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classroom. And it looks like we've hit them and

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we've pushed them, but actually we didn't mean

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to. We meant to just touch them because we're

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applying the wrong amount of force. Or maybe

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we are playing with a toy and we break it because

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we've been too forceful with our hands because

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we haven't understood how much force we're applying

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and what's right for the situation that we're

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in. Could it also be things like tiptoe walking?

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Yes. Or running their hand along. I often see

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children running their hand along a wall or maybe

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a radiator. It's kind of maybe getting that feedback

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through their body in a bit of a stronger way,

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maybe. Yes, because our... proprioceptive receptors

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sit inside our muscles. When we use our muscles,

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we get even more information. So they're working

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all of the time. They're telling us where we

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are. Anyone that's listening now, if they close

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their eyes, they'd know where their hands are.

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They know where their feet are because the proprioceptive

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system's telling them. But when you work the

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muscles, you get more information about that.

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you might stand on tiptoes and clench your calf

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muscles because actually then that tells you

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where your feet are and suddenly you know where

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your feet are and perhaps you didn't before you

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did that. The other reason you might do that

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is that our proprioceptive system is very regulating.

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we get a huge amount of regulation through our

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proprioception. So we also might get extra proprioception

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from clenching our calf muscles, walking on tiptoes,

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because that's helping us feel calm and cope

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in the situation that we're in at the moment.

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Yeah, that makes so much sense. That makes so

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much sense. Could proprioception also be in relation,

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I don't know the answer to this, could proprioception

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also be in relation to not being able to communicate

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if they don't know? where their lips are and

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tongue is it would make sense to me that they

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struggle to then form sounds even if there's

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not a physical reason is that right absolutely

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yes because we have a very big muscle inside

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our mouths called our tongue and we have all

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the muscles that work are the outside of our

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mouths our lips as you say so when we have a

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well -developed sense of proprioception. We know

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how our mouth is moving. You could put a sweet

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in your mouth and you could move it around from

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one cheek to the other and do cartwheels with

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it on your tongue if you felt like it because

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you know how to move your mouth to do that. If

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your proprioceptive sense isn't firing terribly

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well, if our brain isn't interpreting all those

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sensations really clearly, then maybe we don't

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know where our mouth is and we don't know how

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it's moving. So eating might be tricky, speaking

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might be tricky because we've got to move our

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mouth in really precise ways to get those speech

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sounds correct. It also makes sense why they

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would want crunchy foods maybe because it would

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give them more feedback to know where their mouth

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is moving to therefore then to the foods, whereas

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soft foods obviously don't give them that sense.

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Don't take much effort. And maybe if we're just

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eating soft foods, we might actually try and

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get some of that crunch in another way, maybe

00:13:02.269 --> 00:13:05.210
by putting other things in our mouths or even

00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:07.950
biting. Yeah, and that's when chewy is kind of...

00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.659
kind of become can be really helpful can be helpful

00:13:10.659 --> 00:13:13.100
amazing another thing just before we move on

00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:15.700
from proprioception one thing I find really fascinating

00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:18.559
about proprioception is in lots of the other

00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:21.960
senses you can be over responsive or under responsive

00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.600
can't you you can either be almost like hesitant

00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.059
of it or you can be seeking it but with proprioception

00:13:28.059 --> 00:13:31.740
I find they're only ever seeking it you can't

00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:36.200
be too proprioceptive aware which i just find

00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:38.279
really fascinating about that particular sense

00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.639
is could are you able to expand on my understanding

00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:46.700
of what that means or yes it's why i call proprioception

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.820
on magic sense because Sometimes, I think I said

00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:52.559
earlier, when we're looking at doing sensory

00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.259
interventions, there's the risk that we could

00:13:54.259 --> 00:13:56.080
get things wrong and we could make things a little

00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.639
bit worse. But actually, proprioception is magic

00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.580
because it only ever helps us. It's fantastic.

00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:04.899
So it's a great first line of defence for any

00:14:04.899 --> 00:14:07.019
teacher or a parent that's trying to help their

00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:09.970
child. So you're quite right. Most of our senses,

00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:12.370
we can be over responsive, we can be under responsive,

00:14:12.490 --> 00:14:14.529
we can be a little bit of a mix between them

00:14:14.529 --> 00:14:16.909
for some things as well. But proprioception,

00:14:16.970 --> 00:14:21.350
we only ever crave more of. So we can't, you

00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:23.370
can't think, oh, I could be giving too much and

00:14:23.370 --> 00:14:25.690
that could cause a problem. It's really unlikely.

00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:29.870
I would never say never because kids are really

00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:32.429
unique, aren't they? There's bound to be one

00:14:32.429 --> 00:14:35.789
somewhere to it. But as a rule, note, we are

00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:38.809
never over responsive to it. So proprioception

00:14:38.809 --> 00:14:42.330
can only ever be a good thing. It's only ever

00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:44.990
something that we want, that we need more of.

00:14:45.149 --> 00:14:48.610
And because it's such a powerful regulator, we

00:14:48.610 --> 00:14:52.629
can then use it to help children regulate. really

00:14:52.629 --> 00:14:55.049
regardless of what the problem is, because our

00:14:55.049 --> 00:14:58.190
proprioceptive sense also has a bit of an overriding

00:14:58.190 --> 00:15:01.490
impact on all of our other senses. So it might

00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:03.429
sound a bit weird to say, if somebody's really

00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:06.490
struggling with a noise, give them some proprioception

00:15:06.490 --> 00:15:08.889
because it's going to help. It's going to help

00:15:08.889 --> 00:15:11.610
them cope with it. What does that look like?

00:15:11.789 --> 00:15:15.409
I'm constantly aware that I'm squeezing children.

00:15:15.889 --> 00:15:18.259
And sometimes when I visit nurseries or main

00:15:18.259 --> 00:15:21.120
like mainstream nurseries I have to really really

00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.139
remind myself not to squeeze the children because

00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:27.179
it's just so ingrained in me to give them deep

00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:30.299
pressure arm squeezes down their arms or even

00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:32.879
just a hand hold sometimes that kind of pulsing

00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.460
pressure on their hands or all my children love

00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.740
head squeezes and they'll really lean into a

00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:40.980
head squeeze What other things can we offer as

00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:43.980
well as that, I suppose? So there's a couple

00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:45.639
of things there. I'll talk about the other things

00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.080
that you can offer. But I'm going to unpick a

00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:49.580
little bit some of the things that you've just

00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:52.659
said, just to be a bit techie. Because I don't

00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:54.480
understand why. I know it works, but I don't

00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.879
really understand why. Well, yeah, I'm a bit

00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.639
of a sensory geek as well. So when you are just

00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.659
squeezing somebody, what you're actually giving

00:16:02.659 --> 00:16:04.679
them is deep pressure, which, strictly speaking,

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.759
is part of the tactile system, not the proprioceptive

00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.509
system. The nitty gritty doesn't really matter

00:16:10.509 --> 00:16:12.629
because it works. And the important thing is

00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:15.250
that we get things that work rather than particularly

00:16:15.250 --> 00:16:17.409
what we call them. But yeah, I have to have my

00:16:17.409 --> 00:16:19.710
little geeky moment and say, yeah, if we're just

00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:23.029
doing the squeezes for somebody, then really

00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:26.250
that's deep pressure. When it's proprioception

00:16:26.250 --> 00:16:28.649
is when they're moving and they're working their

00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:32.690
muscles. So if they're squeezing you back. they're

00:16:32.690 --> 00:16:35.210
getting some proprioception because their muscles

00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:38.429
are working. If they're lying under a weighted

00:16:38.429 --> 00:16:41.330
blanket, then we've got that deep pressure touch.

00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:43.950
But if they start pushing against that weighted

00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:46.669
blanket, then we get proprioception. It's really

00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:49.970
hard to unpick the difference. And does it matter?

00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:52.789
Not in the real world. No, it doesn't. But in

00:16:52.789 --> 00:16:55.110
my geeky moments, I kind of have to come in and

00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:58.019
say, that one's tactile. Yeah, that is helpful

00:16:58.019 --> 00:17:00.279
for me to know. Lots of my children like seesaw

00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.679
row the boat kind of actions, movements. So that

00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.500
would be the proprioception. Proprioception because

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.460
we're working our muscles. So when you're asking

00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:09.339
what other things children can do or staff, parents

00:17:09.339 --> 00:17:11.880
can do to help with children, anything that works

00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.220
their muscles is going to really help. And I

00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.039
know that's really, really open, but it means

00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.140
you can tap into what a child's interests are.

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:21.799
So if one likes row, row the boat, that's great.

00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:25.119
If one likes rolling over a gym ball and pushing

00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.220
on the floor or pushing against the gym ball,

00:17:27.259 --> 00:17:29.660
then that's brilliant. If someone else likes

00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:32.200
going for a walk with a weighted backpack, then

00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.420
that's brilliant. So we can really leave it wide

00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:38.359
open so that we can tap into what the child might

00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.299
want to do, what they might want to engage with.

00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:43.240
because we've got to get it done, haven't we,

00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:46.359
in order for it to help and then get that regulating

00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.119
input into them. Fantastic. And you can't do

00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:50.839
too much of it, which is really great to know.

00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:53.240
So kind of experiment with it, go along with

00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:55.059
your children, see what they're naturally doing

00:17:55.059 --> 00:17:57.579
anyway, because my God, our learners are so great

00:17:57.579 --> 00:18:00.160
at finding ways, however safe or unsafe they

00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.039
are, they certainly find ways of trying to meet

00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:05.799
and regulate those needs. So maybe see what they're

00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.180
already doing and try and find another way or

00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:12.289
a way of joining them. Like biting that you talked

00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:15.650
about, that's somebody trying to seek that proprioceptive

00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:18.089
input to this big muscle that we have here that

00:18:18.089 --> 00:18:20.690
attaches this part of our jaw to our skull. And

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:22.630
they're seeking that. So they're trying to help

00:18:22.630 --> 00:18:26.309
themselves, which actually is a nice way to frame

00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:27.970
it, isn't it? We've got a child that's trying

00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:29.789
to treat themselves, trying to help themselves.

00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:31.990
They've just got the technique a little bit wrong.

00:18:32.210 --> 00:18:34.230
And maybe we can give them something else to

00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:36.630
do with their mouth that's going to replace.

00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:39.460
The bit that we don't want them to do by biting

00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:41.440
something that's harmful or biting other people

00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.500
or whatever they might do. Maybe they have crunchy

00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.700
snacks. Maybe they have a textured chewy or a

00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:49.640
vibrating chewy or there's so many things, isn't

00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:51.920
there? Lots of movements and things, but that

00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.079
isn't biting your friend or an unsafe toy or

00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:58.109
something. Absolutely. It's a question I get

00:18:58.109 --> 00:19:00.190
lots, actually, about biting and hitting. And

00:19:00.190 --> 00:19:02.630
I do often think it's meeting both needs, isn't

00:19:02.630 --> 00:19:05.069
it? It's meeting that social interaction and

00:19:05.069 --> 00:19:08.789
really need for something back. And maybe that's

00:19:08.789 --> 00:19:10.630
the easiest way to get it. So it's kind of communication

00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:13.029
and social interaction in that way. But it is

00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:18.210
also that regulating proprioceptive seeking tool,

00:19:18.289 --> 00:19:20.369
isn't it? Absolutely, yeah. that meets their

00:19:20.369 --> 00:19:23.369
needs far quicker than being able to go and get

00:19:23.369 --> 00:19:24.990
their communication device, you know, ask for

00:19:24.990 --> 00:19:27.250
their chewy or ask for a snack or wait till snack

00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:30.829
time, you know. So maybe I suppose the answer

00:19:30.829 --> 00:19:35.069
is to make it even easier to meet it safely.

00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:37.609
So have the crunchy snacks just out and always

00:19:37.609 --> 00:19:39.829
available. Have their communication device always

00:19:39.829 --> 00:19:42.089
available. Input social interaction games and

00:19:42.089 --> 00:19:43.829
cause and effect games in, you know, all of those

00:19:43.829 --> 00:19:46.230
kind of things and all of that movement. Yeah.

00:19:46.430 --> 00:19:51.069
Brilliant. So let's move on to the next one.

00:19:51.109 --> 00:19:53.210
What one would you like to talk about next? Shall

00:19:53.210 --> 00:19:55.730
we do vestibular next? Because that one works

00:19:55.730 --> 00:19:58.289
so closely with our proprioceptive system. The

00:19:58.289 --> 00:20:01.170
two kind of go hand in hand. So our vestibular

00:20:01.170 --> 00:20:04.450
sense sits inside our ear, in our inner ear with

00:20:04.450 --> 00:20:07.109
all of our hearing apparatus. And that one picks

00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:10.180
up movement of our head. So proprioception does

00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:12.759
the body. Vestibular tells us where our head

00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.940
is and how our head is moving. And it helps us

00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:18.359
stay upright. So it picks up gravity. So we know

00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.640
when we are upright and it knows when we're listing

00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:23.859
off to one side and we're not upright anymore

00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:25.579
and we need to do something to change that or

00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:27.960
we're going to fall over. So the proprioceptive

00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.660
sense tells us a lot about where we are, where

00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.200
we are in space. It's that one sense where you

00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.359
can get really badly wrong. When I went back

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.299
to talk about how we can get some things wrong

00:20:37.299 --> 00:20:40.019
and proprioception. is magic because we can't.

00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:43.180
Some bits of vestibular sense, or struggling

00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:45.619
at my words now, are very calming and regulating

00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:48.700
and other bits really wake us up and super alert

00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:51.940
us. So things where we're moving in a straight

00:20:51.940 --> 00:20:55.220
line, in a linear manner, so maybe we're going

00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:57.740
forwards and backwards or maybe we're going up

00:20:57.740 --> 00:21:00.079
and down and we're moving in a very predictable

00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.220
way, a very rhythmical way, that generally will

00:21:03.220 --> 00:21:06.059
be quite regulating for somebody quite calming

00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:09.670
and organising. Whereas actually, if we're spinning

00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:12.450
around and we're going upside down and our head's

00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:14.569
going all over the place and we're moving in

00:21:14.569 --> 00:21:17.490
a non -rhythmical, non -predictable way, that

00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:19.970
can be highly alerting for somebody. So when

00:21:19.970 --> 00:21:22.309
you're looking at maybe a child who is seeking

00:21:22.309 --> 00:21:24.650
out some vestibular input, you might see that

00:21:24.650 --> 00:21:28.130
they're looking for the linear, rhythmical, calming

00:21:28.130 --> 00:21:30.430
input, or they're looking for the spinning, going

00:21:30.430 --> 00:21:34.130
upside down, exciting input. And then we can

00:21:34.130 --> 00:21:36.700
take that. And like we said, with the proprioception,

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.319
we can take that and find ways and building sessions

00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.920
that offer them that, either that, you know,

00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:47.259
either way, either the rhythmic or not. And we'll

00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:49.400
talk about sensory circuits and sensory diet

00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.299
in a little bit, but that's where that knowledge

00:21:52.299 --> 00:21:54.940
comes in, doesn't it? It does, it does, because

00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:57.579
they tackle those movement senses, our proprioception

00:21:57.579 --> 00:22:00.339
and our vestibular. And those two senses work

00:22:00.339 --> 00:22:04.619
so closely together to let us move. to do things

00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:07.400
in daily life. So to stay upright in my chair

00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.599
now, I'm using my vestibular sense to make sure

00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.779
that I'm staying upright all of the time. If

00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.579
I'm walking around the room, I'm using my vestibular

00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:18.880
sense to stay upright and negotiate the environment.

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.240
I'm using my proprioceptive sense to know where

00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.799
my body is as I weave in and out of the tables

00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:25.920
and the chairs. So they work really closely.

00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.599
And for any child who doesn't process information

00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:31.779
from those senses very well, they're going to

00:22:31.779 --> 00:22:33.599
have difficulties with their movement and their

00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:35.720
coordination. So what you're going to see is

00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.740
a clumsy child who's not moving in that well

00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:41.380
-coordinated way, bumping into things, falling

00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:44.160
over things, using the wrong amount of force,

00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:48.000
maybe being a bit scared to move as well. Yeah,

00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:49.380
I was going to say that I've got some children

00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:51.819
that are really scared of stepping down steps

00:22:51.819 --> 00:22:54.539
or even sitting back on their chair, almost like

00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:56.740
that. You can see the fear of falling as they're

00:22:56.740 --> 00:22:59.440
sitting back on their chair. It's that, isn't

00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:05.000
it? It's that inner ear nervousness of that backwards

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.900
motion. Absolutely. Yeah. So we can be under

00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.359
responsive or over responsive and whichever one

00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.319
we either are then very fearful of the movement

00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:16.500
because we don't like the movement or because

00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:18.819
we don't have a great idea of where we are in

00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:21.680
space. So that movement then becomes really scary.

00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:24.339
And moving backwards in space is a particular

00:23:24.339 --> 00:23:27.019
one. Yeah. And then I also have other children

00:23:27.019 --> 00:23:30.359
that are on the swing and could not swing high

00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:32.579
enough. You know, you can just see that they

00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.900
could be going loop to loop and they don't get

00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:39.519
dizzy and they absolutely, or they, I don't know

00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:41.460
if they do get dizzy, but they don't seem to.

00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.339
And they just always like the more, the better.

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:49.220
They couldn't do enough to just seek that constantly.

00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:51.920
They would be on the swing all day if they could.

00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:53.980
So, and then I've got other children that's...

00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.119
who struggle to sit back on their chair and it's

00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.579
all vestibular. It's all vestibular. The other

00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:02.799
end of the scale, I suppose. Absolutely, yeah.

00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.079
One extreme to the other. Either we have a very

00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.440
high threshold, so we're on the swing, we're

00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:09.539
seeking lots and lots and lots because we really

00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:11.980
want lots. It makes us feel good. It tells us

00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.740
where our body is. Yeah, just makes us at peace

00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:16.960
with the world. And then the other extreme with

00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.619
those very low thresholds who don't want a lot.

00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.759
It's too much. Would that change child to child

00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.480
or would that change day to day? today? It generally

00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.619
is more child to child. And then we have the

00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:32.859
aging process. So I know my vestibular system

00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.019
is now very different to how it was when I was

00:24:35.019 --> 00:24:38.180
a teenager. I was a teenager and, you know, put

00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:40.559
me on a roller coaster and I'd be happy as Larry,

00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.140
could go on it several times, think that was

00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:46.759
cracking. Now, yeah, no thanks. That's going

00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:48.859
to make me feel really sick. I'm going to be

00:24:48.859 --> 00:24:50.900
really dizzy. I'm not going to, in fact, I really,

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:52.660
really, really don't want to do it. It's a good

00:24:52.660 --> 00:24:54.700
thing about my children now being adults is they

00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:56.299
can go and do that sort of thing on their own

00:24:56.299 --> 00:24:59.920
because I am so past it. So my vestibular system

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:03.579
has changed as I've ate. So it does develop,

00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.440
it does evolve, but not day to day. It's more

00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.420
of a long term evolving. So if you've got your

00:25:08.420 --> 00:25:11.759
child for a year or two, more often than not,

00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:14.180
it would, if they're seeking, they would be seeking

00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:18.829
for those years and or vice versa. Yes, it won't

00:25:18.829 --> 00:25:21.529
really change in the moment. Everybody does have

00:25:21.529 --> 00:25:24.490
a threshold. So you might have a child who seeks,

00:25:24.569 --> 00:25:27.569
seeks, seeks, and then they hit that threshold

00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:30.410
and then anything extra is too much for them.

00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:33.430
I did once have a very memorable child that I

00:25:33.430 --> 00:25:36.589
was treating in sensory integration clinic using

00:25:36.589 --> 00:25:39.390
a swing and we did a great session and I took

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:41.450
her right to the limit of her threshold and thought

00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:44.690
it was brilliant until she got in the car to

00:25:44.690 --> 00:25:48.369
go home. And that car journey, the movement that

00:25:48.369 --> 00:25:50.789
that gave her, the input on her vestibular system

00:25:50.789 --> 00:25:54.279
just tipped her over the edge. And she was car

00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:57.519
sick. Lesson firmly learned for me that I needed

00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.980
to keep her a little bit lower under her thresholds

00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:03.400
next time because yeah, anything extra. So the

00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.160
only things you'd want to watch out for is maybe,

00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.319
especially if somebody's got a long journey home

00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.519
on the minibus, particularly because some of

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:12.380
our kids who arrive at school on minibuses have

00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:15.500
horrifically long journeys. Just make sure we

00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:17.319
don't do anything to tip them over the edge.

00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.900
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I find

00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:21.519
the same with swimming as well, actually. If

00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.859
we've done a sensory circuit before swimming,

00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:27.019
it can become incredibly alerting in so many

00:26:27.019 --> 00:26:30.740
ways. Yeah. Shall we talk about interoception?

00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.200
Interoception, yeah. So interoception, we are

00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.220
calling our eighth sense. It's the newest one

00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:39.650
that we've really learned. about recently, probably

00:26:39.650 --> 00:26:41.769
over about the last 10 years, we've been learning

00:26:41.769 --> 00:26:43.609
more and more. Though now we look back, actually,

00:26:43.630 --> 00:26:45.569
we know that it was referred to years ago. So

00:26:45.569 --> 00:26:47.470
it's not a new sense, but we're learning more

00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:50.289
about it more recently. That's our sense inside

00:26:50.289 --> 00:26:53.049
our bodies that tells us what's going on inside

00:26:53.049 --> 00:26:56.069
of our body. And we've got senses through all

00:26:56.069 --> 00:26:58.309
the organs inside our body that tell us about

00:26:58.309 --> 00:27:00.750
how that organ is feeling. So our interoceptive

00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:03.750
sense tells us when we need the toilet, for example.

00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:07.480
but gives you lots of information about it. So

00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:09.859
you'd know when are you next going to need to

00:27:09.859 --> 00:27:11.859
go to the loo? Yeah. If you've got an hour or

00:27:11.859 --> 00:27:14.180
two, if you've got 10 minutes or so, do you need

00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:16.880
to get up and go right now? What are you going

00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.140
to do when you go to the loo? As in, are you

00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:20.460
going to have a wee or a poo? There's normally

00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:23.200
a bingo game of how soon, how long before I mention

00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.619
poo in anything that I do while we're on that

00:27:26.619 --> 00:27:30.680
half an hour. Hey, this is a safe space. It always

00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.240
crops up somewhere there. So it tells us that

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.819
sort of thing. It tells us when we're hungry,

00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.339
when we're thirsty, whether we're full up. But

00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:39.859
it also tells us about our emotions because we

00:27:39.859 --> 00:27:42.660
feel our emotions as physical sensations inside

00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:45.480
of us. That fluttering of butterflies in your

00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.779
tummy, that increased heart rate, sweaty palms,

00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:51.500
all tells you that you're maybe anxious about

00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:54.220
something. So our interoceptive sense is really

00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:56.420
important for telling us about what our body

00:27:56.420 --> 00:28:00.170
needs. And we need to know. what we need in order

00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:03.910
to be able to provide it and regulate in that

00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:07.230
way, even if it's being hungry. I know I certainly

00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:10.890
get really, really hungry. So I need to detect

00:28:10.890 --> 00:28:13.950
when it's hunger, when it's anger, which one

00:28:13.950 --> 00:28:16.150
it is, and then I take the right steps to do

00:28:16.150 --> 00:28:18.950
something about it. It makes so much sense as

00:28:18.950 --> 00:28:21.509
you're talking, when you're saying about feeling

00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:24.869
too hot, not knowing if you're sweaty, not knowing

00:28:24.869 --> 00:28:26.490
if you're hungry, not knowing if you're full,

00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:28.509
not knowing how you're really feeling. I mean,

00:28:28.529 --> 00:28:32.690
there are so many tick boxes there that look

00:28:32.690 --> 00:28:36.589
like autism. You know, it's so interwoven in

00:28:36.589 --> 00:28:40.710
the autism. sphere isn't it these needs are toileting

00:28:40.710 --> 00:28:43.910
as well lots of my learners are in pads show

00:28:43.910 --> 00:28:47.109
very little awareness of needing to go or having

00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:49.650
gone and it all makes so much sense once you

00:28:49.650 --> 00:28:51.990
learn about that interoception you can understand

00:28:51.990 --> 00:28:57.230
why um even if they physically can it may be

00:28:57.230 --> 00:29:00.109
that inner sense isn't isn't telling them what's

00:29:00.109 --> 00:29:03.170
actually going on And then when we think about

00:29:03.170 --> 00:29:06.450
regulation and working towards self -regulation,

00:29:06.569 --> 00:29:09.349
we can see how difficult that is because to do

00:29:09.349 --> 00:29:11.970
the thing to help us regulate, we need to know

00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:15.430
what it is that we need. So I've sometimes hearing

00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:18.970
schools that pupils are taught strategies and

00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:21.990
they know, they know when they're feeling angry,

00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:24.809
they know to go and do X, Y and Z, but they're

00:29:24.809 --> 00:29:28.069
not using it. And I hear that one really frequently.

00:29:28.089 --> 00:29:30.329
And for me, that always makes me think about

00:29:30.329 --> 00:29:33.289
interception, because if you didn't realize that

00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:35.730
you were getting angry, you're not going to go

00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:37.430
and do the strategy that you've been given. And

00:29:37.430 --> 00:29:39.630
it doesn't matter how good the strategy is and

00:29:39.630 --> 00:29:42.089
how well you've been taught it and how well you're

00:29:42.089 --> 00:29:44.549
supported to use it if you don't actually know

00:29:44.549 --> 00:29:46.690
that now is the time that you need to go and

00:29:46.690 --> 00:29:50.779
do that. The more children I talk to are verbal

00:29:50.779 --> 00:29:53.160
kids that can explain this, the more I realise

00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:56.079
that actually, yeah, they don't know. We can't

00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:58.779
take it for read that they do know. Sometimes

00:29:58.779 --> 00:30:01.680
we need to step in and we need to say, right,

00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:03.900
we're recognising the signal. So we're going

00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:06.380
to help you do this thing that we think will

00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:09.690
be really helpful for you. That comes down to

00:30:09.690 --> 00:30:11.750
having a really great and trusting relationship

00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:14.109
with the child, knowing them really well and

00:30:14.109 --> 00:30:16.950
being able to know what their normal is, where

00:30:16.950 --> 00:30:20.009
that sits and what is unusual for that child,

00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:21.309
which means you have to know them incredibly

00:30:21.309 --> 00:30:23.690
well. And you also have to have already had the

00:30:23.690 --> 00:30:27.450
conversation regularly probably about what we

00:30:27.450 --> 00:30:30.930
do when we're feeling, you know, in the moment

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:33.829
of feeling really sad or really angry or really

00:30:33.829 --> 00:30:37.460
excited is not the time to introduce. a new thing

00:30:37.460 --> 00:30:40.599
so have it regularly when they're regulated when

00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.480
they're feeling focused and calm and ready and

00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.920
and yeah regulated i suppose and then in those

00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:50.720
moments then you can say i can see that or do

00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.779
you think you're feeling this so i can see you're

00:30:52.779 --> 00:30:55.420
feeling this um Do you remember that box that

00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:57.960
we created? You know, and then, or no verbal

00:30:57.960 --> 00:30:59.619
at all, actually, often with my learners, you

00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:01.779
just kind of get it out and have it there. But

00:31:01.779 --> 00:31:04.319
having those conversations before that moment

00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.740
is incredibly helpful, isn't it? And talking

00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:10.619
about how those body sensations feel, if you've

00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:12.980
got a child that would understand that, you might

00:31:12.980 --> 00:31:15.460
say, oh, do you know what? My tummy's really

00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:18.700
rumbly and my head feels a little bit dizzy and

00:31:18.700 --> 00:31:21.660
my muscles feel all floppy. I wonder what's going

00:31:21.660 --> 00:31:25.339
on for me here. I think I could be hungry. I'm

00:31:25.339 --> 00:31:27.180
going to go and have something to eat. Because

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:30.220
we don't talk to kids like that. We assume that

00:31:30.220 --> 00:31:32.880
they learn these things like, what does hunger

00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.200
feel like? And what do I need to do to put it

00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.880
right? But not all of our kids learn this. No,

00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.880
so we need to think out loud. Yeah, thinking

00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:43.859
out loud helps with lots of things, doesn't it?

00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:46.339
It does. And just thinking about how those things

00:31:46.339 --> 00:31:50.380
actually feel, labelling those things. And modeling

00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:52.660
that as adults, maybe if we're feeling a bit

00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:54.960
fidgety or if we're feeling excited or if we're

00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:57.700
feeling hungry or tired or poorly, we could be

00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:00.599
modeling that. I've got the zones of regulation

00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.500
behind me, actually. And I purposefully put the

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:08.420
adults' photos on our zones of regulation board

00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:11.720
so that throughout the day, we could be aware

00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:13.480
of how we're feeling, which is actually incredibly

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.700
helpful for me, which made me question a lot

00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:18.160
of things about myself, to be honest, because

00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:21.630
I... Without it, I was unaware of how I was feeling

00:32:21.630 --> 00:32:23.029
and how that was changing throughout the day.

00:32:23.230 --> 00:32:26.569
But also so that the children could see a model

00:32:26.569 --> 00:32:29.990
of it's all good. We can change throughout the

00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:31.930
day and this is what we need to get there. So

00:32:31.930 --> 00:32:35.549
I had adults supporting adults wearing chews

00:32:35.549 --> 00:32:37.390
around their neck and using chews, wearing ear

00:32:37.390 --> 00:32:41.160
defenders, taking their jumper off. sitting down

00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:42.799
you know all of those kind of things and modeling

00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.339
it out loud so that it was just happening without

00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:47.900
the expectation that the children would join

00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:50.599
too but it's just happening and the idea is that

00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:53.859
hopefully they would they would pick up on some

00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:57.819
of those things yes and for our verbal kids that

00:32:57.819 --> 00:32:59.880
we're using zones of regulation with knowing

00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:02.720
that the aim isn't to be on the green zone all

00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:04.900
the time. The aim is to be able to move between

00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:08.000
zones so that you're in the right zone for the

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.599
thing that you're doing at the time. But I think

00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.700
we can get sometimes hung up on we want to be

00:33:12.700 --> 00:33:15.220
on the green zone. Yeah, I did visit a school

00:33:15.220 --> 00:33:17.619
the other day that one of the children, it killed

00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:19.299
me to hear this, but one of the children said,

00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.400
we're a green zone class. And I thought, oh no,

00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:24.559
it's just the traffic light system refreshed.

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.549
And I said, sometimes I'm quick. day and my birthday

00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.329
I feel in the red zone you know and sometimes

00:33:30.329 --> 00:33:33.430
when I'm you know had a really hard day I feel

00:33:33.430 --> 00:33:36.069
in the red zone and and that's perfectly normal

00:33:36.069 --> 00:33:39.430
and after a really nice big lunch I'll be very

00:33:39.430 --> 00:33:42.069
blue zone yeah that's okay and that is completely

00:33:42.069 --> 00:33:46.210
normal so yeah I think I think a lot of learning

00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:48.869
needs to be done around that I think it can easily

00:33:48.869 --> 00:33:52.410
turn into control and compliance yes very easily

00:33:52.910 --> 00:33:55.529
Which kind of leads me on to seeing sensory,

00:33:55.750 --> 00:33:59.410
all the sensory stuff as behavior instead of

00:33:59.410 --> 00:34:02.930
being curious as to the why. You've explained

00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:06.369
beautifully as to the why over the last 40 minutes

00:34:06.369 --> 00:34:10.110
in this podcast. So now my listeners will be

00:34:10.110 --> 00:34:12.150
curious. I know they will. Next time they're

00:34:12.150 --> 00:34:14.289
seeing these kind of behaviors, they won't be

00:34:14.289 --> 00:34:18.010
seeing them as difficult, challenging, all those

00:34:18.010 --> 00:34:20.210
kind of words that we hear. But I really hope

00:34:20.210 --> 00:34:23.610
that they're then curious as to why, what's really

00:34:23.610 --> 00:34:26.369
going on there, which kind of leads me on to

00:34:26.369 --> 00:34:30.300
sensory circuits. words and sensory diets kind

00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:33.440
of thrown around like everybody should and is

00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:39.179
doing it but I'd love to hear your take on what

00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:42.940
that looks like how it's most useful and how

00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:44.500
it I don't know yeah I don't want to kind of

00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:45.940
put too many words in your head I'd love to hear

00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:48.809
your thoughts on sensory circuits. Yeah, you're

00:34:48.809 --> 00:34:52.329
right. So much behaviour is sensory driven. Not

00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:54.409
all of it. Of course, there's umpteen reasons

00:34:54.409 --> 00:34:56.829
why children behave the way that they do. And

00:34:56.829 --> 00:34:59.750
partly why I love working with kids so much is

00:34:59.750 --> 00:35:03.400
because I'm investigating. what could it be because

00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:05.579
I need to know what it could be so that I can

00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:08.059
try and solve the problem but a lot of the time

00:35:08.059 --> 00:35:11.219
yes it is sensory it has a huge impact on somebody's

00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:13.920
ability to participate in their day enjoy their

00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.860
day enjoy the things that they're doing enjoy

00:35:15.860 --> 00:35:18.489
the environment that they're in and If we can

00:35:18.489 --> 00:35:20.929
meet their sensory needs, then we can just make

00:35:20.929 --> 00:35:23.389
that whole day nicer for them. We've all got

00:35:23.389 --> 00:35:26.210
sensory needs, all of us. We all have our individual

00:35:26.210 --> 00:35:29.710
sensory preferences. For example, I like to work

00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:32.289
in silence. I like a really quiet environment.

00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:35.269
My teenage daughter likes to listen to music

00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:38.469
while she works. We're in the same room together.

00:35:38.530 --> 00:35:40.889
If we were in the same class, it becomes very

00:35:40.889 --> 00:35:42.949
hard because her needs are to listen to music.

00:35:43.030 --> 00:35:46.030
My needs are to have silence. So when we're doing...

00:35:46.230 --> 00:35:48.730
Sensory diets, for example, that's about trying

00:35:48.730 --> 00:35:50.869
to meet the individual needs of somebody and

00:35:50.869 --> 00:35:53.690
give them what they need to make that environment

00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:56.690
right for them. So give them more of the sensations

00:35:56.690 --> 00:35:59.349
that they need, take away some of the sensations

00:35:59.349 --> 00:36:02.210
that they don't need, and maybe give them more

00:36:02.210 --> 00:36:05.070
of sensations that they would find calming or

00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:07.630
regulating or grounding, whichever word you choose

00:36:07.630 --> 00:36:10.960
to use to apply that. that too circuits and sensory

00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.260
diet so that's a way of making it individual

00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:15.659
isn't it so the music one is great is a great

00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.820
example because you've either got music on or

00:36:18.820 --> 00:36:20.820
haven't but what if we offer headphones maybe

00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.679
for a child that does what music that is something

00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.360
that you could do in class then doesn't impact

00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.900
everybody else yes so i mean like musical headphones

00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:31.349
or headphones learner that doesn't want the music

00:36:31.349 --> 00:36:33.469
or maybe pick carefully about what music you

00:36:33.469 --> 00:36:35.170
have on or maybe it's actually white noise that

00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:36.989
helps them and then actually that helps everybody

00:36:36.989 --> 00:36:39.730
maybe you know it's it's it's all about experimentation

00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:43.309
isn't it it is and see what happens it's not

00:36:43.309 --> 00:36:45.909
an exact science so I can't look at a child and

00:36:45.909 --> 00:36:47.889
go ah they need x y and z and everything will

00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:50.329
be fine it is trial and error to try and figure

00:36:50.329 --> 00:36:52.809
it out especially if they can't tell us what

00:36:52.809 --> 00:36:54.909
it is that's going on and lots can't because

00:36:55.610 --> 00:36:57.690
They may not have the cognitive ability. They

00:36:57.690 --> 00:36:59.829
may not have the verbal ability. If their interception

00:36:59.829 --> 00:37:02.329
isn't good, they may not know why it doesn't

00:37:02.329 --> 00:37:04.030
feel right. They'll just know that it doesn't

00:37:04.030 --> 00:37:05.969
feel right. And we've got to help them unpick

00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:09.369
that. And then, so that sensory diet, that's

00:37:09.369 --> 00:37:11.889
more individual. What about sensory circuits?

00:37:12.030 --> 00:37:15.940
How does that fit in as part of that? conversation

00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:18.460
yeah if we can get things right on an individual

00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:21.519
basis that's brilliant and I know you're using

00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.019
the term sensory diets I quite like there's a

00:37:24.019 --> 00:37:25.900
few other terms being floated around I quite

00:37:25.900 --> 00:37:29.099
like sensory lifestyle as a bit of that yeah

00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:32.579
because that means it's more consistent yes and

00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:34.699
it's what you need in the environment around

00:37:34.699 --> 00:37:37.320
you for your life so that one feels quite nice

00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.159
to me sensory circuits are a really good way

00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.079
of meeting the needs of a lot of children most

00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.630
of the time because we're giving them the input

00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:48.670
that regulates most children most of the time.

00:37:48.710 --> 00:37:51.409
And sometimes when we're in schools, we can't

00:37:51.409 --> 00:37:54.090
do all of the individual needs all of the time

00:37:54.090 --> 00:37:56.980
because... It's the real world. Things don't

00:37:56.980 --> 00:37:59.679
always work that way. So sensory circuits can

00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:02.760
be a fantastic way of getting lots and lots of

00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:07.099
regulating movement input in for a child to really

00:38:07.099 --> 00:38:09.980
sort their nervous system out, if you like, so

00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:12.099
that the rest of the day becomes okay, becomes

00:38:12.099 --> 00:38:14.400
things that they can cope with. So it's a great

00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.800
almost one size fits all with a few little tweaks.

00:38:18.349 --> 00:38:20.329
And sometimes we have to do the best we can with

00:38:20.329 --> 00:38:22.929
what we've got to work with, don't we? And movement,

00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:25.869
sensory circuits, sensory movement breaks, whatever

00:38:25.869 --> 00:38:28.550
we're calling them, can work brilliantly for

00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:33.309
that. Yeah, there's like maybe a three -step

00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:36.710
approach. So alerting and then organising and

00:38:36.710 --> 00:38:38.469
grounding. I've spoken about this lots before

00:38:38.469 --> 00:38:42.809
on my account if you're not sure. Do all children

00:38:42.809 --> 00:38:46.820
necessarily need... To start with alerting though.

00:38:47.139 --> 00:38:48.719
That's a brilliant question. I might have to

00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.739
kiss you now for raising that one, you know.

00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.940
Only because it's something I've been experimenting

00:38:54.940 --> 00:39:00.119
with. If they're already alert, do they need

00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:05.260
more alerting to like let it go in a safe way?

00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:09.980
Or are they already alert and you do organizing?

00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.510
Yeah, it's a really good question. I totally

00:39:13.510 --> 00:39:15.929
agree. Your traditional circuits have those three

00:39:15.929 --> 00:39:18.409
areas. And if you don't know where to start,

00:39:18.590 --> 00:39:21.210
that's a really great place to start. Do some

00:39:21.210 --> 00:39:24.190
alerting, do some organising, then do some grounding

00:39:24.190 --> 00:39:26.690
or calming activities. But no, you're right.

00:39:26.809 --> 00:39:30.289
Not all children need it. And like all good rules,

00:39:30.570 --> 00:39:32.969
they are there to be broken, aren't they? So

00:39:32.969 --> 00:39:35.690
not all children do need the alerting activities.

00:39:36.130 --> 00:39:38.630
If you've got a child who's already looking like

00:39:38.630 --> 00:39:41.409
they're a little bit in that fight flight zone,

00:39:41.570 --> 00:39:44.550
then actually an alerting activity might be really

00:39:44.550 --> 00:39:47.250
wrong for them. It might even take them further

00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:50.250
along that fight or flight response because it's

00:39:50.250 --> 00:39:52.550
scary and they're not in a good place to do it.

00:39:52.650 --> 00:39:55.190
So no, you can mix and match. You might have

00:39:55.190 --> 00:39:57.489
somebody that just wants some grounding activities

00:39:57.489 --> 00:40:00.650
or some calming activities. You might have somebody

00:40:00.650 --> 00:40:04.730
that needs lots more alerting activities. It

00:40:04.730 --> 00:40:07.820
might depend on the child. it might depend on

00:40:07.820 --> 00:40:11.679
the time of day. Maybe we arrive at school and

00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.039
we're sort of hyper alert because the transition

00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:16.500
in the morning has all been quite stressful and

00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:18.360
we need to come in and have a little bit of a

00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.400
calming session, a little bit of a grounding

00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.679
session to feel okay to then go into class and

00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.340
carry on. Maybe after lunch we've had a big dinner,

00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:29.800
we're a little bit sleepy, we need some more

00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.739
alerting stuff to wake us up and tune us in to

00:40:32.739 --> 00:40:35.380
what's going on on the world around us. So those

00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.920
Yeah, you can mess around with them and test

00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:42.719
it. See what happens. See what's right for the

00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:44.860
child. Organising stuff is brilliant. It comes

00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:47.480
back to that proprioceptive input. We can't really

00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:49.760
go wrong with those on the whole. If somebody

00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:51.920
was in crisis, I perhaps wouldn't do it. But

00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.400
on the whole, they work for everybody. So they're

00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:56.940
a really good place to be. And it's quite a wide

00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:58.860
span of organising activities, isn't there? There

00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:01.900
could be obstacle courses. So you're moving quite

00:41:01.900 --> 00:41:05.280
gross motor. wise rolling and all those kind

00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:08.019
of things balancing but also it can be some quite

00:41:08.019 --> 00:41:10.739
fine motor stuff we do some threading and puzzles

00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:14.840
and sorting is is also organizing so also within

00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:18.559
organizing have a think about does it look like

00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:20.920
gross motor balancing that they need or does

00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:25.349
it look like quiet organizing and sorting alphabet

00:41:25.349 --> 00:41:28.250
for example maybe that grounds them I always

00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:30.989
like to explain it to my teaching assistants

00:41:30.989 --> 00:41:33.869
as when I'm stressed I like to write a list on

00:41:33.869 --> 00:41:36.489
my phone like a little tick box because that

00:41:36.489 --> 00:41:39.130
helps me see everything that I need and feel

00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:41.829
organized and in control and that's basically

00:41:41.829 --> 00:41:44.110
what the organizing is offering for our children

00:41:44.110 --> 00:41:45.789
whether that's getting their body in control

00:41:45.789 --> 00:41:48.210
in a quite a physical way or sorting out all

00:41:48.210 --> 00:41:50.409
the thoughts in their mind and lots of my learners

00:41:50.409 --> 00:41:53.769
find either sorting colors by rainbow order or

00:41:53.769 --> 00:41:55.769
sorting the alphabet or sorting numbers makes

00:41:55.769 --> 00:41:59.369
things feel in control because ultimately lots

00:41:59.369 --> 00:42:01.610
of our learners have so little control over their

00:42:01.610 --> 00:42:04.349
lives and their bodies and their voice and everything

00:42:04.349 --> 00:42:07.809
that actually by giving them those opportunities

00:42:07.809 --> 00:42:11.670
to practice control within their special interests

00:42:11.670 --> 00:42:15.789
can be really regulating even if they don't need

00:42:15.789 --> 00:42:18.030
the alerting and the grounding so I really do

00:42:18.030 --> 00:42:20.469
like the organizing part of it actually and then

00:42:20.469 --> 00:42:23.780
for me The alerting and the grounding are quite

00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:27.260
child -specific. I can think of some learners

00:42:27.260 --> 00:42:29.219
that I certainly wouldn't want to finish with

00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:34.039
grounding because they're sluggish and slow normally.

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:37.320
That certainly wouldn't help them focus or concentrate

00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.320
in whatever we're doing next if we were to finish

00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:41.300
with grounding. But same for lots of my learners.

00:42:41.340 --> 00:42:43.559
I've got lots of climbers and jumpers and throwers

00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.579
in my room that if I was to do too much alerting,

00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:48.820
then we also weren't going to get focused and

00:42:48.820 --> 00:42:50.719
still either. So it is also about knowing your

00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.380
class. And that flexibility within that as well,

00:42:54.380 --> 00:42:57.900
isn't there? Absolutely, yes. Feel free to break

00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:01.000
the rules sometimes and do what works for your

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:04.340
individual learner. And remembering their individual

00:43:04.340 --> 00:43:07.179
preferences as well, because what might be calming

00:43:07.179 --> 00:43:10.840
to one person might not be fun. Digging the garden,

00:43:10.940 --> 00:43:14.280
that would be a great proprioceptive input. I

00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:16.320
don't want to do that. Thank you very much. I

00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.119
really, really don't want to do that. I'd rather

00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:21.139
go and do something else. So again, it's recognising

00:43:21.139 --> 00:43:24.179
that although it might be a grounding activity.

00:43:25.050 --> 00:43:27.489
for somebody, that might really wind them up

00:43:27.489 --> 00:43:29.570
because they don't like it. Yeah, so it could

00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:31.710
meet their needs on a practical level really

00:43:31.710 --> 00:43:34.110
well, but actually if it's not of interest to

00:43:34.110 --> 00:43:36.789
them and it feels forceful in a way, then that's

00:43:36.789 --> 00:43:38.010
actually not going to be regulating. In fact,

00:43:38.050 --> 00:43:39.889
that's going to be quite heightening, even if

00:43:39.889 --> 00:43:42.889
the actual thing is grounding. Yes, and that's

00:43:42.889 --> 00:43:45.429
sometimes where I see things go wrong in classes

00:43:45.429 --> 00:43:48.309
because you do something that the textbook says

00:43:48.309 --> 00:43:51.409
should do this thing and it doesn't and you don't

00:43:51.409 --> 00:43:53.800
know why. And it's always worth thinking about

00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.639
individual preferences and how the activity has

00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:59.340
been done. I suppose it's about approach as well,

00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:00.860
isn't it? You know, how are you approaching it?

00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:02.880
Is it what are the adults doing in that situation?

00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.659
Are they controlling the activity and kind of

00:44:05.659 --> 00:44:09.099
forcing the activity? Or are they just doing

00:44:09.099 --> 00:44:12.960
the activity and making it as fun and as motivating

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:16.340
as possible? Are they planning for activities

00:44:16.340 --> 00:44:17.980
that they know the children will like because

00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:19.940
they're really similar to what they're already

00:44:19.940 --> 00:44:23.739
naturally doing or their special interests? It's

00:44:23.739 --> 00:44:27.519
how it's sold as well, I think. If I was to say,

00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:29.820
like, my children love the obstacle courses.

00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.039
They really love it. But if I was to say to lots

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:34.940
of my pupils, if I was to stand there and say,

00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.760
right, off you go, and treat it like a work task

00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.639
or treat it like a... you know, this is something

00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.139
for you to do and you have to do it and then

00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:46.039
you can get what you want. It wouldn't work.

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.699
It wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't be motivating

00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:49.400
and they wouldn't get anything out of it. In

00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:51.440
fact, they find it really heightening or boring.

00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:54.179
Whereas if all of the supporting adults are doing

00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:58.019
it and being silly and modelling how fun it is

00:44:58.019 --> 00:45:00.880
and adapting to whatever the children want to

00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.840
do and being quite child -led in that way, it

00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.320
makes the exact same activity. very very different

00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.699
outcome absolutely yes children learn through

00:45:10.699 --> 00:45:13.800
play they want to engage in things that are fun

00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.780
yeah get release your inner child I always say

00:45:16.780 --> 00:45:18.920
in my training this is your license to release

00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:21.900
your inner child get in there and play and enjoy

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:24.920
it yeah enjoying the fun that's the best bit

00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.230
of this job I think that we just get to play

00:45:29.230 --> 00:45:31.889
so why wouldn't we what a wonderful way to finish

00:45:31.889 --> 00:45:34.710
where can people find you ali so i am school

00:45:34.710 --> 00:45:38.670
sensory solutions i am busiest on facebook i

00:45:38.670 --> 00:45:41.550
need to get a handle on instagram and get more

00:45:41.550 --> 00:45:43.610
on there but you'll find me on both of those

00:45:43.610 --> 00:45:47.210
and linkedin as well so i run training courses

00:45:47.210 --> 00:45:50.610
for schools particularly anyone that works in

00:45:50.610 --> 00:45:54.929
education in fact to try and upskill people about

00:45:54.929 --> 00:45:57.250
these kind of things and give you the confidence

00:45:57.250 --> 00:46:00.769
to actually go into class, identify those sensory

00:46:00.769 --> 00:46:03.110
issues and come up with a plan that is going

00:46:03.110 --> 00:46:06.670
to work and is going to fit into the real world

00:46:06.670 --> 00:46:09.150
as well, be totally achievable. So where School

00:46:09.150 --> 00:46:11.949
Sensory Solutions kind of does what it says on

00:46:11.949 --> 00:46:13.429
the tin, I'm trying to help you come up with

00:46:13.429 --> 00:46:16.230
those solutions for any sensory issues that you

00:46:16.230 --> 00:46:19.510
have in class. And is that in -person or virtual

00:46:19.510 --> 00:46:23.360
or both? Both, predominantly virtual, because

00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:26.039
part of the best thing I think to come out of

00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:28.320
COVID was we all learnt these virtual skills.

00:46:28.579 --> 00:46:31.380
So it makes it accessible and it also makes it

00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:33.420
really cost effective. And going back to being

00:46:33.420 --> 00:46:35.860
in the real world, I know how tight budgets are,

00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:38.920
but I'm also available for face -to -face as

00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:41.530
well, should anyone want that. That's fantastic.

00:46:41.650 --> 00:46:45.130
So open to everybody listening. If you are wanting

00:46:45.130 --> 00:46:47.449
to learn more, either for your own needs, for

00:46:47.449 --> 00:46:50.289
children, for home, for school, then if you've

00:46:50.289 --> 00:46:51.969
learned something today, but want to learn more,

00:46:52.070 --> 00:46:54.730
then definitely get in touch with School Sensory

00:46:54.730 --> 00:46:57.690
Solutions. Thanks. I have a sensory champion

00:46:57.690 --> 00:47:00.650
award because I think every school needs a sensory

00:47:00.650 --> 00:47:03.590
champion that can really drive these things forward.

00:47:03.690 --> 00:47:06.150
So my training's geared at equipping you with

00:47:06.150 --> 00:47:08.429
the skills to be able to be that sensory champion

00:47:08.429 --> 00:47:11.000
for your school. Fantastic. And have you got

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.619
a resource coming out? I have. Well, I've got

00:47:13.619 --> 00:47:17.360
some ready done sensory circuits, some downloadable

00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:21.300
print and off you go sensory circuits. I've got

00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:24.119
three already that are based around dinosaurs,

00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:26.940
space and going through the jungle because who

00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:30.179
doesn't like those? And the idea is you download

00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:32.059
them and you have some little activity cards.

00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:33.900
I've got some here that I've done on a lanyard.

00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.119
They've all got a coloured border so you know

00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.039
whether the activity is... alerting, organising

00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:40.980
or calming. So it tells you a little bit about

00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:42.800
the effect that that's going to have. And then

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.280
I've got a new one that I'm just finishing having

00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.420
illustrated, which is 101 sensory activities

00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:50.940
that you can do, sensory diet, sensory circuit

00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:54.219
activities. So hopefully another grab and go.

00:47:54.969 --> 00:47:57.829
takes that thinking out and that pressure. Lots

00:47:57.829 --> 00:48:00.110
of it's got no equipment and doesn't have any

00:48:00.110 --> 00:48:02.630
space requirements. So you can just pick it up

00:48:02.630 --> 00:48:04.969
and go anywhere. Some of your more traditional

00:48:04.969 --> 00:48:07.050
sensory circuit activities with your obstacle

00:48:07.050 --> 00:48:09.969
courses that you talked about. But it takes you

00:48:09.969 --> 00:48:11.690
through all of that and stops you needing to

00:48:11.690 --> 00:48:14.590
think and plan. Which actually is the bit that

00:48:14.590 --> 00:48:17.769
we don't always have time to do and can be absolutely

00:48:17.769 --> 00:48:20.590
the barrier to it. So yeah, they're downloadable

00:48:20.590 --> 00:48:24.579
so you can print any size. A4, lanyard, thumbnail.

00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:28.300
What else? I've got some little sensory, little

00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:30.980
individual timetable strips. So there you go.

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:32.760
There's some dinosaurs there for you. Who doesn't

00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:35.500
like those? Absolutely. I don't know anyone who

00:48:35.500 --> 00:48:37.639
doesn't like dinosaurs. That's fantastic. So

00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:39.599
if they want to get involved in, follow School

00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:41.900
Sensory Solutions on Instagram and Facebook and

00:48:41.900 --> 00:48:43.760
check out the website for all of that good stuff.

00:48:43.900 --> 00:48:45.760
Thank you so much, Ali. Thank you for having

00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.880
me. It's been an absolute pleasure.