Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today
I am joined by Lauren or at Victorious who is
an ex SEN teacher now supporting parents and
teenagers, young people who are those SEN in
-betweeners who are not coping in mainstream.
finding themselves at home or excluded or school
refusing or needs not being met in school and
I really want it to be a conversation on what
we can do as educators to do better for these
children and supporting parents to know and you
know fight for these children's needs because
everyone deserves education. Hi Lauren. Hi, Jordan.
Thank you for having me. You are so welcome.
This is such an important conversation and such
a conversation close to my heart. I don't know
if you know, 10 years before, I worked just in
a specialist education school. And I was kind
of blind to this because all of the children's
needs were being met how they should be within
my school, within reason. But at the moment,
I am actually in a special education setting
that's alone. attached to a mainstream school
so i'm seeing every day these mainstream children
with some of them with higher needs than the
children in my class and how that's managed you
know sometimes it's they're really well supported
sometimes they have really great support staff
who are really highly trained and teachers who
completely give them a sense of belonging and
inclusion in their classes And I'm also seeing
the other side of things as well. I'm seeing
children that are in the corridors. I'm seeing
TAs without plans, that are having to think off
the cuff, that are having to deal with really
tricky situations and children who's ultimately
educational but also mental health needs just
not being met. So I can see firsthand the need
for this conversation. Yeah, absolutely. I think
it's so important to have because like yourself,
I worked for Specialist Provision for six years.
absolutely lovely but before then I was in mainstream
and I did my degree in social education and then
I went into mainstream and then I eventually
went into localistic provision and the need for
inclusion is so important but it's just not happening
in the way we would like it to. We have these
amazing centres for children with autism with
almost like high support needs and I think they
do really well like you say it's just absolute
everyday practice. this is how we do it. We use
our visuals, we use all those sensory breaks,
just second -hand nature. But then in a mainstream
setting, it's high masking, it's children fall
through the gaps because we have, the big thing
is assessment, it's grades. Oh, well, they're
actually doing really well educationally, so
let's not put a plan in place, let's not focus
on those other needs because they're ticking
a box with the grades. Yeah, because sometimes
these children are very high achievers, actually.
They're your million word readers in my school.
They're your top school, oh my goodness, they're
already ready for year six SATs in eight years
old children. But it doesn't mean that their
needs and their sensory needs and communication
needs and social needs aren't just as prevalent
as the children in my class that are working
at a very different level academically. Exactly
that, and I think... it looks different and people
are like you know if we go to that that old language
of you know high functioning like what does that
even look like it's actually not like that it's
a spectrum it's they're still experiencing these
sensory needs and everything but different it
looks different for them and because they are
academic in that way how we see as academia it's
but at what cost They're wearing that mask. At
the end of the day, they're fine in school, I
quote, but actually at the end of the day, they're
coming home, they're burning out and have a big
four o 'clock explosion because it's like, wow,
I couldn't actually, I couldn't move. I'm trying
to socially interact in the way that it's meant
for me. A lot of young people with autism will
be very highly empathetic as well, which is another
misconception. so they can be really highly empathetic
and all day they're thinking is that wrong i
did this and you know when you have you know
mixed needs as well someone with adhd as well
as that it's just constantly exhausting and it's
almost in a mainstream setting it's like oh well
are they choosing that behavior or actually no
they they're talking to you behavior is communication
and the biggest communication and i think then
we end up with kids in the corridor rather than
okay what can we do who is it a problem for if
they're sitting there you know with with a visual
timetable with something that meets them where
they're at you know not not the business that
we're in when we're talking about the kids in
the corridor we're talking about literally kids
that are educated in cupboards under stairs in
miscellaneous rooms in outside the head teacher's
office in corridors they are taught in corridors
and Sometimes it is because they are not coping
in the classroom. But I still feel like children
need to be taught in an education setting. So
yes, okay, the lights might be too bright. It
might be too loud. It might be too busy in the
classroom. Okay, fine. Then it needs to be in
the child's best interest to be educated elsewhere.
It shouldn't be because they are disrupting the
rest of the class. It shouldn't be because...
for the benefit of the 30 other children that
this child can't be in the class. It needs to
be beneficial for that individual child to make
that decision. Ultimately, also, movement breaks
and visuals support all children. Absolutely.
Just because we're creating it for this one child
to help support them, to have them as part of
belonging, as part of this classroom. And if
that's what's needed, then, you know, dimmer
lights, visuals, movement breaks. If that's what's
needed, then that doesn't hinder any other child
from learning. It absolutely doesn't. And, you
know, so often in mainstream I've heard, and
unfortunately in other settings as well, they've
got like a fiddle toy or something like that.
We've distracted them from the other children.
Actually, you know what? Kids and teenagers are
actually full of empathy. If you can actually
explain, we'll actually eventually teach them
to advocate for themselves. I need this to focus.
or this helps me feel calm if we give children
young people those skills to advocate for themselves
more more often than not your children will go
okay exactly so accepting of it so accepting
and also i think if they're so easily distracted
from their work tasks from a silent fidget toy
then your lesson just isn't that interesting
absolutely or maybe they need one as well or
maybe they need one as well or maybe or maybe
they can be part of them but maybe Like this
child gets easily distracted. So maybe like that's
not this child's fault. They shouldn't leave
the classroom because of that. Maybe they need
a room divider because they get easily distracted.
Maybe that's a them thing. Or maybe they need
their hoodie up so that they can have, you know,
some barriers. Maybe that's their own sensory
need. That's not up to the child to change. There's
a couple of quotes going on in my head. One of
them is, if a flower doesn't bloom, you don't
change the flower. You change the environment
it's in to help them bloom. And that is exactly
what we're talking about. hear if the child isn't
coping in the classroom if they're distracting
if they're disruptive all these kind of words
that we're hearing we don't change the child
we don't you know we change the environment now
sometimes that does look like moving them out
into a different class sometimes sometimes it
looks like maybe using a quiet area but also
sometimes that just looks like offering movement
breaks visuals schedules and dimming the lights
offering fidget toys encourage you know change
that environment in order to better suit their
needs. And another quote that comes to mind is
also, so -called mild autism doesn't mean one
experiences autism mildly. It means you experience
their autism mildly. You have no idea how hard
they have had to work to get to where they are.
And I think that's what we're talking about,
isn't it? Teachers, if you are seeing mild autism.
You have no idea what's going on under the surface
for this young person. Who knows? Maybe my children
in my class are low maskers because they are
less aware or less caring of what other people
think around them. They stim freely. They communicate
through their body and through behaviours because
they don't have that maybe awareness or care
of what other people think around them. But the
children in mainstream class, maybe they do care.
Maybe they are aware. Maybe they have been told
that they're different. Maybe they, you know,
have some kind of trauma in the past of having
to, you know, keep it down, keep their stims
down because it's seen as behaviour. But that
doesn't mean their need isn't just as high as
the children that you see flapping and rocking
and squealing in my class. And that's, they need,
their needs that need meeting. It's not a choice.
yeah this is it it just looks different and that's
it like so many people i think two adults included
they're like oh i've never really um thought
that i stim and i'll look at i'll look at their
hands and their nails and they're they're being
picked and they'll go well i do this with my
foot and i'm like yeah that's how you how you
stim but then you also on the back hand of that
my absolute bug there is always everyone's a
little bit autistic no they're not they're not
like you either are autistic or you're not you
may be that you've got high or low support needs
but you know it's actually a new neurological
condition so you either are or you're not we
might have little tendencies so to speak it's
like you know i have a craving for chocolate
it doesn't mean i'm pregnant i just have that
tendency right now and i think and this is all
well -meaning of the community because people
are starting to learn about it all these well
-meaning things but it's like well actually know
like really yeah because ultimately human no
autistic traits are human traits it is a human
trait to have interest it's a human trait to
feel anxious sometimes it's a human trait to
uh feel safest in your own you know environment
it is a human trait to feel a little bit uncomfortable
with transitions and change those are kind of
butterfly feelings they're all normal human experiences
so I think people hear these things and think
well I feel like that maybe I you know maybe
everyone's a little bit autistic I think that's
where that comes from isn't it but it's the impact
of those feelings that makes it autism as well
as sensory you know it's having all of it at
varying levels and changing throughout the day
but it is it's having that impact on your life
it is magnified to the point where it becomes
debilitating not for everything not for everyone
it looks different in everyone but that's what
makes it autism that's what makes it diagnosable
so yes you might share similarities you might
share traits if you will for a better word but
that doesn't necessarily mean it's autism but
also as we're talking about it maybe it is autism
maybe you're saying everyone's a little bit autistic
because you're recognizing those high traits
in yourself and you never even thought that you
could be because it looks really different in
lots of people lots of women are only realizing
that they're autistic because their children
are being diagnosed with high support needs And
then they never even knew that, you know, they
are autistic with low support needs all their
lives. If I had a pound for the amount of mums
particularly, but dads as well, that look at
their own children and like, okay, maybe I, but
I do that. And it first starts that dialogue
of, if I do that and mum's like, okay. And then
you see, you know, that light bulb moment in
even some of my parent trainings that I've done.
You can see the parents going, oh, so it's masking
that I've done. I don't have, you know, I'm not,
my sense of me don't look like that. And I do
like to be social. And that's another myth that's
being bust. Some children that I work with love
being social. And they're like, okay, maybe now
that... because that's very different in the
90s if you're a millennial yeah I mean it was
are you flapping are you on your toes do you
like trains was the kind of the tick box right
yeah and of course not everybody fits that model
so if teachers are if teachers have you know
if they're not aware you know they might be listening
to this thinking well if they're high masking
how do I even know that there's even needs to
be met so as that mainstream teacher going back
you know in your career how did you know and
then how did you support them with those needs
I think the amount of times I wish I could go
back to newly qualified 21 year old me and my
advice always now is listen to the parents because
so often being a newly qualified teacher years
ago in mainstream and then the parents would
be going oh well at home they they need this
comfort and they're You know, they're melting
down, they would say, and they're really struggling
at home. And I, like so many teachers now, would
say, but they're fine at school. But then why
are they fine at school? They could be masking,
100%. They have routine at school quite often,
which is predictable. They see the same face
every day and they have strategies in place.
But I definitely look back and think, I wish
I knew what I knew now. from going into FDN environment
coming out of those and even being in a autistic
provision from age four to nineteen and was leading
emotional regulation doing all the peer -to -peer
side of things and the behavior side of things
which I'm so passionate about even there we're
turning away I'm going to go a bit of tangent
now sorry we're turning away 80 odd children
a year because you know they don't these children
even with a diagnosis they don't fit the mold
of a school like the one that you work at or
they don't fit that mold so we're turning them
away and they're going to the mainstream and
we're talking in london as well so going to a
big big mainstream setting absolutely what i
would then say to those those teachers is listen
to the parents how are that child at home that
is so easy for us to go all is it because of
the parenting is it because of this is it because
of trauma and it's so often is there another
need like the amount of parents i speak to them
themselves have later been diagnosed with autism
or ADHD, and it's, oh, well, they have bipolar
personality disorder, anxiety, depression, and
all these things. And so many people are now
going, actually, no, it's not that. It actually
is this. And I think the more we can listen to
parents who know their children better than anyone,
the more we can then support them in the classroom.
We can support them to not see that behaviour
at home as well, because so many children that
are ticking the boxes, working hard at school.
especially if they're you know high achieving
academically they are the ones that fall through
the gap they are the ones that don't have those
their needs met because they they're not seeing
that behavior and at home they're then seeing
it and it's like why are we almost waiting for
that exhaustion waiting for that burnout where
prevention is better than Cure. Cure is the wrong
word, but I mean for those needs, but the prevention
of putting their structures in place, putting
their things on a break. So rather than waiting
for dysregulation to happen and then giving them
the squeezes and then offering them a break and
then offering them visuals, then offering them
sensory stuff. let's do it prevention let's do
it before let's we don't need to get to dysregulation
before we put those things in place so if parents
then so that's for teachers if parents are listening
and this is exactly what's happening the four
o 'clock burnout is real they are being told
by teachers they're not doing it at home it must
be something you're doing you're just not being
strict enough or whatever it is whatever it is
what do these parents do about that at home what
you know actionable things that they could be
putting in place to support their child including
what do they say to the school? I think in terms
of what to say to the school and the sad of it
is you know have to carry on have those conversations
keep your logs of what's happening and look for
patterns I find because you know the stress bucket
throughout the day often it looks like parents
go to me oh it looks like they're just having
you know, they're getting upset over nothing.
Is it nothing? Or is it that their bus was five
minutes late? They then were sitting on a chair
that was scratching them. There was a different
teacher, it was a supplier teacher in the daytime
and all these little things, as in all day long.
So it's all about, I think, working with the
school and working with home in terms of prepping
for change and all those things, because although
I might be masking throughout the day, these
things are filling into that stress bucket. all
day long and then at the end of the day boom
that's the explosion so in terms of what parents
can do is absolutely advocate for your child
you're the biggest advocate and i know it shouldn't
be as exhausting as it is that is that is the
really sad case and obviously then we go into
local authorities and happen to have those conversations
it's a real hard fight and especially when it
is children like this that don't look like they're
outwardly struggling and i think as well at home
obviously breaks at home really really work and
obviously having that time and expression and
i think that's why we do see that at home you
know because the mask comes off because they
feel safe and you know for years i've been saying
to parents they feel safe with you and i can
say about my own children why why are they like
this for me they're good as gold at nursery because
you know they're safe with you and although it's
not good to hear in the moment it's like well
actually what is that behavior telling you Because
the sad thing is, you know, in five, 10, 15 years'
time, that's only going to look more like anxiety
and depression. And then I think definitely teaching
young people about who they are. There's a really
good resource that I love, and I just, I sing
its praise all the time. I think it's really
good for those, for young people, such as teenagers,
that are trying to become more self -aware. On
the Pacific Society, there's a really great resource
called Know Your Normal. and it's about assessing
what's normal for you on the day to day like
what are your hobbies what time do you usually
sleep what do you normally eat do you have like
your little habits and routines what does doing
normally look like for you those kind of things
and then it's a way and i haven't found it myself
because one of those things you go hang on a
minute today i did wake up late i didn't want
to play my normal game or whatever it was i didn't
do that and it's like a check -in i've got that
emotional regulation because as much as i love
emotional regulation in a contemporary classroom
you know you've got your visual zones regulation
all that wonderful stuff emotional regression
isn't a one -size -fits -all when you're talking
teenagers especially in mainstream school they're
not going to whack out their colorful inside
out zones of regulation are they they want something
that is private to them and they know how to
check in and we you know we've got these apps
and like things like calm and that these days
as well which is really great but i think bespoke
strategy especially when it comes to emotional
regulation is the way forward what does it look
like for you is it energy level based rather
than we've done the regulation we see it often
and it's almost what i struggle with it sometimes
it looks like a ranking it's like some schools
do it like that don't they sometimes i've actually
heard a school say we we're a green class like
as in like we that's the expectation that we
stay on green i was like this isn't zones of
regulation like they very clearly say all colors
are equal all colors are okay but yeah lots of
settings take it and basically turn it into a
traffic light system yeah exactly that and i
think it's that like absolutely you can feel
red it's okay to go in the red zone and i think
it's more of a spectrum and then you know when
you go to teenagers you have so many more emotions
there you've got embarrassment and you have less
puberty in the mix there as well all other complex
emotions that are so hard for any teenager to
and you can feel two of things at once right
you can feel excited about something and incredibly
anxious and fidgety so is that yellow is that
red is that orange like it gets confusing doesn't
it so when you're in those early stages of understanding
emotions it's really clearly to put it into those
four categories but as your understanding develops
it does become muddy doesn't it because feelings
are so mixed and paralleled and all of these
things so then it can become incredibly difficult
to categorize especially if you're autistic and
you like things being you know fitting the rules
i mean feelings just don't fit the rules i can
cry when i'm happy i can feel anxious when i'm
excited about something like it it doesn't fit
those rules so having a bespoke strategy that
actually fits them and makes sense to them or
what it looks like what it feels like when it
happens yeah gives them autonomy and understanding
and links and words to the feelings that they're
actually feeling absolutely i think look it's
not a one -size -fits -all it would be a really
lovely resource like an audit to use that um
national autistic society what was it called
know your normal know your normal it'd be really
great to use that as an audit for any transitions
into different classes with new teachers yeah
um if parents could fill that out or if teenagers
could fill that out young people could fill that
out about themselves if you feel brave enough
to share that because it's pretty you know I
wasn't open to give that information over, but
if you feel comfortable to, it could really help
your educators to understand what your normal
is for you. So they could understand, oh, they're
actually not moving so much today. Like that's
actually a bad thing. That's actually like maybe
they're not learning. Maybe they're so anxious
that they're not comfortable and relaxed and
therefore not learning in my classroom rather
than, you know, they're looking still and ready.
And actually that not being what still and ready
and focused looks like for them. Exactly that.
I think it's feelings are so abstract and it's
like, well, actually, what's potentially normal
for one person isn't normal for the other person.
Like, if we see those regulations under the symbol
for calm with someone sitting, well, actually,
calm for someone else is dancing. Could be pacing.
Yeah, exactly. And again, it goes as well with
the bespoke strategy. you know going for a regulation
walk or going to the centre doesn't work for
everyone other people want music smashing in
their ears or they just want to gently tap or
they just need silence they need noise it doesn't
it's not a one -size -fits -all and I think that's
what I'm really passionate about is working on
the motion regulation to be different for every
individual and for all the teachers that are
saying oh well how can I do it bespoke I've got
34 kids in my class well you just believe them
give them the choices have them available and
believe them that when they pick a choice that
that is going to be right for them until proven
otherwise so have the fidgets out have the calming
music on have the movement breaks available they
don't have to do it that's the point i think
that that should believe them when the child
says i don't want to do a sensory break maybe
they don't need it in that moment maybe they're
already so alert that they don't need a movement
break maybe they just need a calm sit under the
table you know if all those options are available
and accepted within that time given and you believe
them give them the benefit of the doubt then
you are meeting your whole class's needs and
i say until proven otherwise because sometimes
children need to try something to know it if
it doesn't work or not so Allow them all to have
the fidgets and then you'll soon see who it helps
focus and who it helps distract. And then you
can kind of manage that from then on. But they
might have to try the fidget in order to even
know themselves if they need it on. Exactly.
And I think giving it to a lot of children, because
what I want to speak to about now is pathological
demand avoidance. So when you have an individual
with their PDA profile as well, even if you're
going, OK, you need to go for a sensory walk,
you need to do this, they're going to go. no
i do not so we also need to then think about
how do we then make emotional regulation not
seem like a demand because then there's another
demand on them that you're putting they're already
dysregulated they feel a complete loss of control
and then you're telling them exactly how they
need to regulate then their nervous system is
going to even feel even more dysregulated and
so actually having that choice and giving them
the power on it to learn how it feels for them
even like actually practically where do i feel
anxiety in my body i might feel it in my tummy
i might feel it in my throat again everyone feels
it differently do i feel sick how does that look
like for you because it's so different for everyone
you know being allowed to stim freely as well
but then it's like all other people were looking
at me so if we had that classroom where it was
just accepted and that is our ethos You know,
because I think every child, you know, neurotypical
children, they all benefit from the visuals.
They all benefit from maybe having a movement
break. They all benefit from having, I love the,
using, what's the name, the bands. Oh, there
are bands? Yeah, having those on the, you know,
on the chair legs, things like that. It's so
subtle. Including the adults too, like sensory
breaks and circuits don't just support children,
they support all humans. Having the teachers
and the support staff, if you have them, modelling
that too. If they're feeling a little bit anxious,
maybe whilst they're teaching, maybe they have
something to fidget with. If they're sitting
down and need a bit of grounding, maybe they
put a lap blanket on. Maybe they wear their sunglasses
when it's bright outside. Whatever it is, they're
modelling how they're meeting their own sensory
needs. It might not look exactly the same for
the children, but they're embedding that philosophy
of, We're all sensory beings and it is okay here.
Absolutely. And then they naturally feel safe
to do that. Rather than, I feel like often, especially
when you've got like one -to -one support as
well, it's a natural being for us to say, what's
wrong? What's this? What can I do? When, you
know, when you're trying to fix it. Where I'm
a big, big fan of waiting someone out. Wait them
out because when you're trying to teach emotion
regulation, that... In that moment, and this
is for, you know, advice for parents as well,
I say, you know, wait them out because you don't
teach a drowning person how to swim when they're
drowning. You wait, you wait it out and you wait,
you know, and that's when you then teach surgeries
afterwards. But so often it's all, you know,
teachers in the mainstream schools and then you've
got the likes of Ofsted coming in. It's almost
an Ofsted coming in that children are then feeling
our anxiety and then there's always behaviour.
So it's in that panic. And it's like, well, actually,
sometimes doing nothing in that moment is more
powerful. You know, switch it down, minimise
your language and just step back. But as human
beings, we feel like we always have to be busy.
And actually, we need to model that as well.
It's OK to be still. It's OK to be quiet and
not fill that gap. But us as humans, we always
want to fill that gap. And it's actually OK.
And it's OK to... as well like to model choosing
friendships because we often refer you here especially
in primary classrooms even at my daughter's nursery
they say well come and see your friends and I'm
thinking well they're probably not all our friends
and that's okay because we all you know as adults
we choose our friends who do we get along with
why is it a target in an EHCP especially in a
mainstream school I've actually seen this target
before and a target was to fit in with the peers
what does that mean? wow the way I crossed that
out and got that taken out but it made me so
uneasy I was like to fit in I don't think anyone
fits in I mean that's basically telling them
to mask yeah don't be autistic like no I don't
think anyone really feels like they fit in and
I think that's not to the benefit of the child
is it I think with all of these targets and with
all of these resources all of them are right
if it's to benefit that young person if you feel
like it's to benefit the others then that's when
it's a red flag so i feel like if you're a teacher
a parent anything if you just have a look at
what you're asking the children to do that's
a really great measure of is this benefiting
the child so we're asking them to go out of the
room during music time that could be a really
good thing or that could be a really bad thing
it depends if it benefits the young person in
question or not if it's to benefit the rest of
the class then that's a red flag if it's to benefit
this particular child well yes maybe that's a
benefit for them but maybe that's for the short
term but maybe long term we could then be thinking
okay well how can we change this session so that
they are included but for the short term maybe
yes you know you don't have to join assembly
for example i always talk about inclusion in
that way lots of my learners choose not to go
into assembly but it's still inclusion because
we're giving them the choice And we are accepting
that they won't sit down and they will stim and
pace and do their vocal stims during assembly.
And that's accepted. But that's still inclusion,
even though they very rarely choose to attend.
Because we're giving them the choice and it's
for their benefit to attend and not to attend,
depending on how they feel that day. That is
still inclusion, just because they're not in
the room. So sometimes it's about, sometimes
inclusion looks like not being in the room, if
it benefits. that person in particular and so
yeah that's I that's kind of what I use to measure
am I being inclusive or not is is what I am doing
benefiting the young person or is it for my benefit
because actually I find that noise quite annoying
or is is it for the class's benefit because they're
finding you really distracting or or you're I
don't know messing up the displays in my room
you know is that actually why a child is being
removed well then maybe that's a red flag that's
not inclusion that's exclusion because you're
not making it um an environment in which they
can you know thrive so yeah and how are they
going to feel how do they feel based on that
choice do they what they might want to be excluded
out of that and that will regulate them so absolutely
do it and that's the thing inclusion doesn't
always look like being included in a room it
looks like being seen for who you are and your
needs accepted and belonging so sometimes belonging
is more what we mean by inclusion than including
someone if somebody belongs it means they are
fully accepted for who they are and their needs
and that we will meet them their needs no matter
what and they are loved no matter what and wanted
no matter what you know if you really want inclusion
in your classroom it means you really want the
children to feel part of the classroom and so
that means that making reasonable adjustments
doesn't it to your day and to your class. And
every single teacher in every single class has
a SEND class. They're all sensory teachers. I
know I call myself sensory teacher, sensory classroom.
All teachers have a sensory classroom, even if
you don't think you do. I promise you, you do.
You could be teaching A -level science and you
have a very sensory classroom. Absolutely, because
like you said earlier, we are sensory beings.
We all are. And I think... just creating that
ethos that you know i see you i hear you and
i love this phrase like i hear you because i
i say that a lot like sometimes especially when
you're you know when a child especially with
a pda profile is dysregulated and they want an
answer there and it's like you know less words
you rate them out otherwise you're getting that
back and forth and i might say i hear you but
you know just i hear you but often people say
i hear you but then they don't make the adjustments
to actually, you're hearing me, but you're not
listening. Yeah, you're understanding. You're
not listening to their behaviour. You're not
listening to a child that's then avoiding school,
a mainstream school, when actually all probably
would have helped is when they finish their learning,
they just need five minutes. As a teacher, you've
got these grades to hit. Well, why aren't you
doing this extension? Why aren't you doing this?
And then the accountability comes on the children
to be extending their own learning to, I think
they... we should be teaching how to be responsible
for your own regulation because actually if we
were creating an ethos of young people that advocating
for themselves and go this isn't okay for me
right now i'm struggling that's heard and respected
because it would you know as an adult We always
hear, oh, we're preparing them for the real world.
But actually, the real world is that I can say.
Me too. Because what is the real world? Let's
change the real world then. That's what it looks
like. And we've all got a mask. I don't want
that. Because the real world, we do say, that
doesn't feel okay to me. I'm not going to do
that. We put our boundaries in place. And obviously,
we do adapt and we mask slightly because... how
I would speak to you would be how different how
I'd speak to my family or how you know you adapt
and but that's the difference between adapting
and masking but teaching people to advocate is
absolutely great and you know even using visuals
and then that leads on to being teenagers and
then kids that then put their boundaries in place
with adults they are they should be safe too
they're the ones that are going to keep themselves
safe and because our young people of autism are
vulnerable and you know teaching consent and
that's don't think that people are very sheepish
off that's where it begins you know that's how
I've explained it to parents actually with young
with young girls I've you know that are quite
compliant that are very people pleasers that
are high masculine class this is how I explain
it is when they're in a relationship when they're
in their older teens in their early 20s and they're
in a relationship that isn't good for them that
is quite abusive taking advantage of this people
-pleasing nature this high masking nature that's
putting everyone else's needs and wants before
what feels good for their body that puts them
in an incredibly vulnerable position for abuse
and that is not what you want for your child
and that is not what you want for the students
in your class so what are we actually teaching
them we need to be teaching them that if something
doesn't feel good in your body you need to speak
up and you need to advocate for yourself and
advocate for your friends when you can see that
they look uneasy and you need to know that if
somebody's asking you to do something that doesn't
feel right and good in your body then that means
it's not good and right for your body and you
shouldn't have to do those things and it's horrible
to use such an extreme example but it is so common
with adult women and adult autistics to be really
vulnerable. as adults in relationships because
of that reason and taken advantage of for that
reason but it starts in the classroom and it
starts at home that feeling of like your needs
don't matter you know you need to do what I say
it's not time for that now you know mask mask
mask push down push down push down only then
inevitably ends up to yeah incredibly vulnerable
adults that are putting everyone else's needs
before their own and that That to me isn't the
real world. That's not a real world thing that
I want to live in. I want to live in a world
where women and all groups feel like they can
speak up when something isn't feeling right.
And that starts in nursery for all of our learners.
If they don't want to hug somebody, if they don't
want to wear their wellies because they're a
bit uncomfortable, if they don't really like
milk and they don't want to drink milk, that's
when it starts. It seems trivial, but it starts
then. That's when the learning happens for those
later relationships and those later years of
what we want to happen. Because we don't want
our young people to be in any compromising or
vulnerable situation. And that is when it's okay
to come out of that green zone and be in that
red zone healthily. You know, you can be angry,
but you can absolutely say calmly, no. And no
is, you know, teaching young people that no is
a full sentence sometimes. It's absolutely okay.
And however that communication looks, like even
on the communication devices, it brings me joy
when they are saying no. And it might look like
a swear word at first. Advocate for yourself.
Like that no is so strong because as well as
that, what I've worked with recently, you know,
set to 19 year olds. And we, you know, still
then. They haven't been taught, this is in an
SCM provision, the proper name, scientific names
of their genitals. And it's like, well, we need
to keep you safe. And not only are you safe from
other people for you to say no, but are you learning
that everyone must be your friend because your
EHCP says to interact with the variety of people
and be friends? Is that person your friend because
they say they're going to get you a Milky Bar?
Because they're going to get you a PlayStation?
are they your friends what are their intentions
and you know we teach about enthusiastic consent
and i think it's so important to teach because
not only does it make them vulnerable to not
saying no themselves but knowing when someone
else is saying no they might be going yeah no
like what does it actually look like enthusiastic
consent and you know and then we got you know
we talked about girls being vulnerable especially
to narcissistic relationships or something that
the pattern that i've seen speaking to a lot
of them that i've nosed women but i think for
men unfortunately it can look very different
and it can look like gang grooming because they're
going to buy you a nice playstation they're going
to buy you the trainers they're going to buy
this and that they must be my friend they're
buying me something because that's not abstract
that is practical and a lot of children especially
with a pda profile they see love as practical
things if someone is saying they're going to
give them the world so we should be shouldn't
be shying away from these conversations with
teenagers especially when they're on the spectrum
because i think people are scared to talk about
sex they're scared to talk about things like
this because i don't know this thing is not age
appropriate but we need to talk about it in a
way that is suitable to them to keep them safe
yeah and that starts from that starts from teaching
no You can teach that from 18 months old, that
when they stamp on the floor and lay on the floor,
that's their no. And actually lots of the children
in my class, no matter what age they are, I teach
age 4 to 11, that's their communication because
they don't have a spoken word. They use their
body to communicate no. But we need to hear that
and we need to honour that and respect that.
And it might mean... No, full stop, no. It might
mean not yet. It might mean not today, or I'm
a bit confused about what you're asking me. Like
you said right at the beginning, behaviour is
communication, and that's what we mean by that.
And when you're saying, I wait it out, that doesn't
mean ignoring the behaviours. That's a message
I had this week, actually. It said, I've been
asked to ignore their behaviours, but that doesn't
feel right for me. What do you do? I said, oh,
I know where they're coming from. They mean to
wait it out. They mean to not pick up on every
single little thing they're doing wrong. They
mean not to, just to focus on the main behaviour.
So yes, okay, normally we don't kick the door.
Yes, okay, normally we don't slam the door or
stamp our feet. Yes, okay, usually that wouldn't
be accepted. But actually right now... That isn't
the big behavior. You know, swearing at me and
using hand gestures isn't the big behavior right
now. The big behavior or the big crisis is that
they're really anxious because they have a trip
coming up. That's actually the focus. So when
it says ignore behaviors, the behaviors I'm ignoring
are the minimal ones. The ones that I would normally
not ignore, but actually today I'm only going
to just regulate them further. I'm going to make
it more of a crisis situation if I bring those
up. So that's what I'm ignoring. not the child
no not the child exactly this is it so when it's
ignoring the behaviors I'm not ignoring the child
in fact I also when you say wait it out step
back and observe that's also not ignoring the
child I do it very consciously because sometimes
I don't want to be in their space sometimes they
because they don't want me in their space they
just need time to you know calm down regulate
and and let it out actually because sometimes
when it goes too far they just need to kind of
let it out and then come back But I'm there.
And I think that's the difference between ignoring
and waiting it out is I am there. I'm not not
be giving them eye contact. I might be at the
other complete other end of the room. I might
be the other side of the door. But my body language
and my presence is saying, I hear you. I see
you. And when you're ready, I'm here. That's
what I hope their senior leadership team meant
by. ignore behaviors i hope so what we don't
mean is literally turning our backs on the children
or the young people and walk in the other way
or or saying i don't want to see you i don't
want that that kind of hand gesture is what not
what we mean in fact we want open palms we want
open bodies observing waiting i'm here when you're
ready and then when they are ready What is your
tone of voice doing? How are you coming at them?
You know, you don't want to be hit with a snarky,
okay, you're done now. I've got places to be.
Or with shame or judgment. Yeah, it's just, okay.
Even right then, is it the moment to then have
that, you know, reconciliation? Probably not.
Not yet. But just let that moment of calm come.
And like you say, we only focus on behaving.
We're only seeing we're behaving when they're
unsafe. to themselves or others and then then
you might intervene but we like to think you
know if you're listening to them earlier on and
giving them a space earlier on when they're swearing
which is a you know I think who is that a problem
for in that in that moment because especially
even in a classroom everyone's probably heard
that and I think when you're giving that attention
they've already heard them it's already too late
so you know and if you're going to pick up on
it you're only going to hear more so and also
ultimately what is that behavior telling you
they've probably done that and slammed that door
and kicked that thing and thrown that thing because
they just need space. So hear that and give them
that space. Coming up into their face and saying,
don't you say that to me, is not honouring and
hearing what they're actually communicating with
you. What they're communicating with you is,
I need space, you've made me angry or what you've
done has made me angry and I need space from
you right now, is what they're saying. and this
is it like is it an unsafe behavior or is it
just inconvenient for you like it doesn't feel
very nice to be sworn out but you you can't actually
it's probably the safest way of releasing that
energy it's much better than being punched I've
had a TA say to me before oh they just told me
to left off and I said why haven't you then like
in the nicest way possible yeah that's not great
how they said that we can talk about that later
we can talk about that another time we can talk
about it tomorrow or next week we could have
a session about this made you know when you said
that you know I know you meant give space you
know how else could we have gone around that
how could would it help if you had a visual to
ask that or maybe if you just you know put your
hand like this on the desk I know that you need
space you know give that kind of talk about it
in like a contract kind of way an agreement kind
of way of you know I can see that you wanted
this and I I hate that I'm you were in a situation
where you had no other choice but to do but to
swear, what could I have done better to help
you not get to that point? Almost like put the
premise and the responsibility on you changing,
not them changing their behaviour. Well, that's
it, because they're probably already really anxious
and you've just tipped that pot right over the
edge and then you've got the brunt of it, just
like the parents probably do at home as well.
And it's like, well, actually, you know, what's
going on? And they might not be ready to have
that conversation right there and then, but they're
clearly saying to you, something's going on with
me right now consistency is key but not consistency
for every child consistency for us for those
child yeah because it works for one might not
work for the other yeah everyone's it and that
is why EHCPs are so important to the services
if they're written well and the parents and the
young person have got say on that and that reflects
them that is when they are powerful because it's
like well what do I need for that child and there
is then a legal binding agreement to do that
and follow that through and a lot often it's
you know sensory breaks you hear in mainstream
well that's rewarding bad behavior well actually
no it's not it's regulating so that you don't
see that it's not a reward sensory breaks it's
not first work then essentially break it well
no first regulated nervous system so i can think
clearly and i think that flipping that narrative
and having teachers feel safe enough in the environment
to do that because they've got the pressure of
you know exam scores and this and that and that
comes down to training and the whole school philosophy
doesn't it so if you're a head teacher listening
to this you know maybe it's down to you to just
create the philosophy in the first place of when
you walk into a room and if there's a child you
know not in the room and they're like twiddling
in the corner or up jumping on a bouncy ball
in the corner or whatever it is or out running
circuits outside whilst the teacher is teaching
just assume that that is what's happened and
until you know told otherwise i suppose if anyone's
listening to this and they want to learn more
and find out more about you and your strategies
and learn more i'm sure there is where can people
find you and so instagram currently is the best
place and so i am currently working on making
these trainings and accessible to parents and
schools that will be practically in real life
and online run by myself but also i'm trying
to offer it in a way that is online as well so
that will be through my instagram and that is
on to sell on my fan store so i currently have
three modules and they are autism awareness and
emotional regulation and social communication
all targeted at the individual children that
i've been kind of speaking about today those
fbm betweeners and i also so instagram victorius
.lv is the best place to get me because i also
offer one -to -one support as well because bespoke
is the best as much as i can put those rushes
out there and but i think working with the family
to create that bespoke support is is the best
and the instagram is the best place to get me
currently Thank you so much. And thank you so
much for joining me today. Such an important
conversation. Everybody make sure to follow Lauren
and yeah, find out more about the SEN Inbetweeners.
I certainly will be. Thank you. I could have
spoken for ages to you. It was wonderful to chat
to you. Thank you.