WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:27.469 --> 00:00:30.269 Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom 00:00:30.269 --> 00:00:34.570 podcast. My name is Jordan and you are here today 00:00:34.570 --> 00:00:39.409 with Sunflower Autism, Julia, who is a consultant 00:00:39.409 --> 00:00:43.670 based in Bromley for neurodiversity and is also 00:00:43.670 --> 00:00:46.810 neurodivergent herself and I'd like to talk about 00:00:46.810 --> 00:00:50.700 neurodivergent. in females because it can look 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:53.579 very different, it's very misunderstood and often 00:00:53.579 --> 00:00:57.079 masked to the high heavens and our children in 00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:59.579 our classes, our female neurodivergent children 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:03.039 in our classes are often missed and it's seen 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:05.599 as lots of different things and I'd like to discuss 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.319 that today with Julia and her wonderful business. 00:01:08.540 --> 00:01:11.099 Hi Julia, welcome. Hi, thank you so much for 00:01:11.099 --> 00:01:12.599 having me, it's an absolute pleasure. This is 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:14.099 my favourite thing to talk about so I'm really 00:01:14.099 --> 00:01:17.180 happy. Awesome, it's lived experience right? 00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:21.040 Yes, literally. We're just saying, even getting 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.239 on here today, getting through the tech, it was 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:26.659 a new app for me that I'd never used. Using headphones 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:29.379 I've never used before. Obviously, new things 00:01:29.379 --> 00:01:32.739 change. Change to the routine is all challenging. 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:35.700 And it's interesting that you say that. It's 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:38.379 not always seen. And I think that sentence really 00:01:38.379 --> 00:01:42.069 rings true, doesn't it? I'm one of those. maskers. 00:01:42.069 --> 00:01:44.269 I'm one of those females that's a massive masker. 00:01:44.689 --> 00:01:46.989 Usually a lot of people were very surprised when 00:01:46.989 --> 00:01:49.310 I was diagnosed later on as being neurodivergent 00:01:49.310 --> 00:01:52.109 because I'm that swan, you know, I'm the swan. 00:01:52.109 --> 00:01:54.689 I look in control. I look, I'm always fairly 00:01:54.689 --> 00:01:57.530 well presented -ish, you know, might talk about 00:01:57.530 --> 00:01:59.609 that later. That's part of my OCD, but so I always 00:01:59.609 --> 00:02:01.760 kind of look. You know, I've done my hair, I've 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:04.620 done my makeup, I'm clean -ish, you know, as 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:06.640 are my kids usually, not at the end of the day. 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.939 I'm usually managed to get around and do things 00:02:09.939 --> 00:02:13.419 and, you know, I look like a very functioning 00:02:13.419 --> 00:02:16.939 adult from the outside. Obviously, as a lot of 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:20.759 us know, I am kicking under the surface and behind 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.599 the scenes, it's really only, probably only my 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:26.530 husband, Nick. Salute Hero. Shout out to him. 00:02:26.590 --> 00:02:30.349 He really helps me. And without him, to be honest, 00:02:30.550 --> 00:02:32.930 I don't think I'd be where I am. I think a lot 00:02:32.930 --> 00:02:34.870 of people talk about masking. It's almost a bit 00:02:34.870 --> 00:02:37.610 of a buzzword. I'm not sure if everyone fully, 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:40.250 fully understands it. Do you want to explain 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:43.310 what that is for you? Because I guess it's different 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:45.969 for every individual. But what is masking to 00:02:45.969 --> 00:02:49.030 you? When does it happen? Are you even conscious 00:02:49.030 --> 00:02:51.310 that it's happening? Why is it happening? What 00:02:51.310 --> 00:02:55.129 does it look like? And what does unmasking look 00:02:55.129 --> 00:02:58.509 like as well? Because maybe that will help reveal 00:02:58.509 --> 00:03:01.110 what the masking is, kind of masking, I suppose. 00:03:01.530 --> 00:03:04.610 Yes, great questions. So I had no idea that I 00:03:04.610 --> 00:03:08.710 was a masker. And so I must also say that I've 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:11.110 worked in a field of autism in particular and 00:03:11.110 --> 00:03:13.530 neurodiversity for nearly 20 years. It's my absolute 00:03:13.530 --> 00:03:16.210 passion in life. It's something I fell into when 00:03:16.210 --> 00:03:19.629 I was younger by accident. I started working 00:03:19.629 --> 00:03:22.210 in a school to get some experience and it turned 00:03:22.210 --> 00:03:23.930 out the kids there were autistic and I was like, 00:03:23.969 --> 00:03:25.650 this is amazing. And that was it. And it was 00:03:25.650 --> 00:03:28.210 absolutely, that was nearly 20 years ago, showing 00:03:28.210 --> 00:03:31.169 my age. It's been my absolute passion. I've also 00:03:31.169 --> 00:03:34.740 then moved into ADHD. Did you know anything about 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:37.240 yourself at that stage 20 years ago? So 20 years 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:39.960 ago, I knew I was dyslexic. So the age of 11, 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:42.939 I was diagnosed with dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, 00:03:42.979 --> 00:03:44.939 mouthful. And I'd always struggled at school 00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:47.680 academically. But looking back, I realised everything 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:49.520 was always blamed on the fact that I was an only 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.520 child. And I don't know if you've spoken to anyone 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.060 else that's had this, but I've spoken to a few 00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:56.439 people that I've worked with, families I know 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:57.840 that I've either worked with or supported or 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.430 that I've just met. where this is the case. And 00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:02.909 so I look back and realize now, I mean, A, it 00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:05.289 was the 80s and the 90s. So obviously, as we've 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:07.090 already said, a lot of these things were missed 00:04:07.090 --> 00:04:10.310 or underdiagnosed in girls because the diagnostic 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:11.789 criteria was based on the male presentation, 00:04:12.050 --> 00:04:14.129 mostly, and because of masking, which I will 00:04:14.129 --> 00:04:16.389 come back to, by the way. I'm going around. This 00:04:16.389 --> 00:04:18.970 is a long way around. No, it's good. It's good 00:04:18.970 --> 00:04:22.009 to know the background. Yeah, it's context. Yeah, 00:04:22.189 --> 00:04:24.050 I think it's important information. So I was 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:26.529 always put in this bot. So I had these three 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:28.170 cousins as well, and they were all really academic. 00:04:28.350 --> 00:04:29.889 Two of them went to Cambridge and one of them 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:31.870 went to Oxford, just to give you some background. 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:34.490 Comparison's very unfair right from the off, 00:04:34.490 --> 00:04:36.629 isn't it? Yeah, it was immediately there. I was 00:04:36.629 --> 00:04:39.209 always the creative one, quote unquote, because 00:04:39.209 --> 00:04:41.629 I was into like singing and acting and whatever 00:04:41.629 --> 00:04:45.079 else, because I wasn't. quote academic and so 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.300 for 38 years and like I say a lot of things were 00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:48.720 very much blamed on the fact oh she's an only 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.740 child a lot of my childhood was I heard oh she's 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:54.620 got verbal diarrhea I heard she's um Julia's 00:04:54.620 --> 00:04:56.660 showing off again was a phrase that my mum used 00:04:56.660 --> 00:04:59.800 to use which now it makes me cringe you know 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:03.300 my late mum who you know I love very much but 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:06.000 obviously had no idea what yeah actually what 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.660 was going on so it looked quite like confidence 00:05:09.660 --> 00:05:13.230 it looked quite in your face it was but actually 00:05:13.230 --> 00:05:16.029 when you were so that this is quite useful for 00:05:16.029 --> 00:05:18.230 the confident children that may be in our class 00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:20.670 what was really happening there was there a lot 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:24.290 of anxiety and or a lot of trying to fit in and 00:05:24.290 --> 00:05:27.980 those kind of things 100%. I think it was overcompensating 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:30.420 is the word I'd use. I think it was probably 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.139 low -level anxiety, although I didn't realise 00:05:33.139 --> 00:05:34.879 it for years. I didn't realise it was anxiety. 00:05:35.060 --> 00:05:37.560 It was trying to fit in 100%. It was masking. 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:40.300 It was fawning, you know, this like extreme people 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:42.600 -pleasing that female neurodivergent people tend 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:44.839 to do. And it was, I think, and then a lot of 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.079 it was... I was actually obviously overwhelmed 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:49.660 and having meltdowns. But, you know, again, this 00:05:49.660 --> 00:05:51.759 came out. It was also hyperactivity. I think 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.699 it was how I think hyperactivity can present 00:05:54.699 --> 00:05:57.459 not just in girls, but in girls and boys. But 00:05:57.459 --> 00:06:00.240 it can very much present as this kind of showing 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.819 off, quote unquote. Again, hate that saying that, 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:05.240 but that's what it looks like maybe or feels 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:07.839 like. This kind of, yes, this. acting showing 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.079 off the class clown we we talk about that yeah 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.879 those quick dopamine hits those like yeah because 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.399 those stimulants almost aren't they to kind of 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:17.600 keep your focus to keep I mean I could totally 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.180 relate to everything you're saying to keep almost 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:24.220 grounded in a way and stimulated and like in 00:06:24.220 --> 00:06:26.519 the moment I have to kind of keep having those 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:30.149 dopamine hits and the making people laugh making 00:06:30.149 --> 00:06:33.129 people react was a really great way of getting 00:06:33.129 --> 00:06:35.629 that grounded like I am here I am in space I 00:06:35.629 --> 00:06:38.850 am seen I am heard that kind of like here so 00:06:38.850 --> 00:06:41.670 I can totally I could totally relate with everything 00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:45.129 you're saying and then yet in other classes I 00:06:45.129 --> 00:06:48.870 was so overwhelmed I was actually very lost and 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:51.850 I I don't think teachers ever questioned why 00:06:51.850 --> 00:06:55.810 I had report cards And were constantly told off 00:06:55.810 --> 00:06:59.209 and kept behind in some lessons. And yet totally 00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:03.269 unseen and quiet and so timid to not even ask 00:07:03.269 --> 00:07:05.029 a question in others. And they never noticed 00:07:05.029 --> 00:07:08.670 that. And it was dependent on the peers around 00:07:08.670 --> 00:07:10.730 me. It was dependent on the class structure, 00:07:10.850 --> 00:07:13.430 who I was sat next to. It was a completely different 00:07:13.430 --> 00:07:16.569 character. And that's what masking looked like 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:18.629 in one situation completely to another. And I 00:07:18.629 --> 00:07:20.699 was a completely different person. I guess because 00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:23.399 of secondary school, it being so many different 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:26.139 teachers that never communicate with each other. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.439 They never could build that picture of what was 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.100 actually happening across my day. I suppose in 00:07:31.100 --> 00:07:32.920 primary school, when you've got one teacher, 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.269 it might. have not happened as much as like obviously 00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:38.889 as that could you relate to that kind of feeling? 00:07:39.209 --> 00:07:42.569 100 % the spiky profile yeah 100 % never could 00:07:42.569 --> 00:07:45.389 I just couldn't understand why no I literally 00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:48.069 my GCSEs have got three A's four B's and three 00:07:48.069 --> 00:07:51.069 D's and I could never understand why am I getting 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:54.800 A's in A's of course was like uh music and drama 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:57.300 which was my passions that i loved so obviously 00:07:57.300 --> 00:07:59.439 i was really motivated i was working really hard 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:02.300 it was very practical side of it and then obviously 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:04.319 it was the maths and the science because i'm 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.699 very terrible dyscalculia even now taxes bring 00:08:07.699 --> 00:08:09.879 me out in a cold sweat you know and so that was 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:11.600 where i was literally having panic attacks and 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:13.639 actually There was a couple of incidents where 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:15.480 the mask slipped, interestingly, and I remember 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.000 I stormed out the classroom a couple of times 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.300 during maths. Obviously, I now realise that was 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:23.680 overwhelming meltdown, really. And it was very 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:25.379 rare, but that mask, because you asked about 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:28.399 the masking, it did slip, you know, now and then. 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.500 And it definitely... I think it was coming off 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:33.679 at home because, like I say, I think I was having 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:35.139 these outbursts and these meltdowns and it was 00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:38.139 always, oh, Julia's overtired because we've had 00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:40.299 family to stay and she's an only child, she's 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:42.179 not used to it. It was always kind of blamed 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:45.440 on that, interestingly, I realise now. I've heard 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.700 in lots of females it's blamed on hormones as 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:50.419 well. They're over -emotional or they're hormonal 00:08:50.419 --> 00:08:52.299 or it's that time of the month that's kind of 00:08:52.299 --> 00:08:55.759 blamed on these external factors, which could 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.559 play a part. We've got all of those going on 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:01.639 as well. But it also can be overwhelmed, dysregulation 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:07.340 and that unmasking, can't it? So, yes, I'm one 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:09.460 of those people where, as you say, probably with 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:11.379 yourself, like looking back, it's really obvious 00:09:11.379 --> 00:09:13.799 once you look back with the lens of, you know, 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:15.580 I had the same report cards. Lots of people have 00:09:15.580 --> 00:09:17.940 talked too much. I remember I was quite sporty. 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:20.500 Well, I could have been quite sporty because 00:09:20.500 --> 00:09:23.379 I'm quite tall. And like my sports teachers always, 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.120 always got quite frustrated with me and said, 00:09:25.139 --> 00:09:28.139 oh, you could be so... sporty julia if you if 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:30.740 you tried and if you cared but i'm just not competitive 00:09:30.740 --> 00:09:32.899 i'm only competitive with myself i'm not competitive 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:35.200 with other people and i just wasn't into it just 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.299 wasn't motivated by it you know so it just wasn't 00:09:37.299 --> 00:09:39.139 my thing and you could there was a very clear 00:09:39.139 --> 00:09:41.220 from very early on yeah you could really see 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:43.480 again that spiky profile like the things i was 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.000 interested in the things that kept the dopamine 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.620 going um and kept me motivated and interested 00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:51.539 and stimulated did go okay which luckily for 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:53.279 me you know I'm I was lucky I suppose that some 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.700 I found some things that did go well but yes 00:09:55.700 --> 00:09:57.419 like I say I was always put in this this box 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:00.120 I was the creative one that haunted me for years 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.159 and to be honest I always say I mean this is 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:05.519 true I really genuinely thought I was I was thick 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.740 until the age of 38 when I received my diagnosis 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.759 of ADHD which is sad isn't it looking back really 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:12.539 I genuinely thought even though by that time 00:10:12.539 --> 00:10:15.789 I had a degree I had a master's degree I speak 00:10:15.789 --> 00:10:18.169 fluent French. I'm bilingual because I lived 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.190 in Switzerland for six years. Lots to love a 00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:21.830 story. That's a whole other therapy session. 00:10:22.450 --> 00:10:24.830 But you still thought you... I was running a 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:26.929 business, running my business. Yeah. And I really 00:10:26.929 --> 00:10:29.370 genuinely thought I was creative because these 00:10:29.370 --> 00:10:31.789 terms I've been, I feel, and I don't want to 00:10:31.789 --> 00:10:34.690 blame people, you know, I'm... Labelled. So people 00:10:34.690 --> 00:10:36.870 are talking about not labelling, but you're being 00:10:36.870 --> 00:10:38.809 labelled anyway, aren't you? And I think that's 00:10:38.809 --> 00:10:41.690 really important to mention that people are going 00:10:41.690 --> 00:10:45.720 to label. no matter whether they're going to 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:48.600 label you as lazy or creative or not willing 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:53.720 to try or disruptive or class clown. They're 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:57.100 labelling you. Yeah, and I do feel it came from 00:10:57.100 --> 00:10:59.799 family, from teachers. I'm not blaming anyone, 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:03.019 but that's just what I heard. When I heard you're 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:05.000 creative, the subtext of that was, but you're 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.539 not very clever. And what I took from that was 00:11:07.539 --> 00:11:10.039 you're thick. And so that's really genuinely 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:11.799 what I thought. And I still have to battle those 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.019 thoughts even now. I really genuinely did. So 00:11:15.019 --> 00:11:17.080 exactly, I always say to people, it's better, 00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:21.139 I would have preferred to have the label of ADHD 00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:25.440 than creative. Yeah, that's what it is. How did 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.559 that feel at 38? Because did you go for the private 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.279 diagnosis? Let's talk about that process. So 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.039 you must have lived all your life and into your 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.970 adult life of wondering. why you feel a little 00:11:39.970 --> 00:11:42.090 bit different or how did that kind of come to 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:44.049 be that you would then go for the diagnosis and 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:46.190 then I was really interested in your feelings 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:49.809 having received that as well yes it's interesting 00:11:49.809 --> 00:11:52.889 so well yes and no I think I always felt different 00:11:52.889 --> 00:11:55.529 subconsciously but equally there was a lot of 00:11:55.529 --> 00:11:57.590 things I just thought everybody did like I used 00:11:57.590 --> 00:11:59.769 to have well still do sometimes unfortunately 00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:01.409 i used to have like quite a lot of panic attacks 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:03.750 often on the side of the road one of my massive 00:12:03.750 --> 00:12:06.250 triggers is directions like i know people say 00:12:06.250 --> 00:12:07.970 oh i'm terrible with directions but i mean i 00:12:07.970 --> 00:12:11.629 literally cannot get from a to b i'm following 00:12:11.629 --> 00:12:14.830 a map on even now on my phone i can see it you 00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:17.509 know right very clearly like it says go here 00:12:17.509 --> 00:12:21.129 and i can't do it my brain just really struggles 00:12:21.129 --> 00:12:24.129 is that linked with uh dyslexia and your way 00:12:24.129 --> 00:12:27.720 of visualizing and and interpreting what you're 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:31.539 seeing and hearing yes i think so and my adhd 00:12:31.539 --> 00:12:34.240 coach has said since that because i do see a 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.860 coach who says that um yeah it's it's definitely 00:12:36.860 --> 00:12:39.419 an adhd thing as well that people we have this 00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:41.399 thing where we can't visualize things you know 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:44.779 I'm terribly like decorating, random example, 00:12:44.860 --> 00:12:46.679 but like, because I can't see in my mind, like 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:47.700 what that's going to look like. Like the end 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:51.539 result. Yeah, we struggle to see B. We know we're 00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:53.899 at A, we know we need to get to B, but we can't 00:12:53.899 --> 00:12:55.360 quite figure out how to get there or what that's 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.379 going to look like. So I would literally, and 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:00.240 I had this job, I mean, you can't believe it. 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.379 My job was literally to go to people's houses 00:13:02.379 --> 00:13:05.120 to work with their... families you know because 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.159 they had autistic children and so every day i 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:10.059 was finding new people's houses and and i was 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:11.399 literally standing on this i mean i'm laughing 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.320 now but of course at the time it's one of those 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:14.740 ones where it was horrible i was standing on 00:13:14.740 --> 00:13:16.639 the side of the street having panic attacks like 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.919 literally hyperventilating and vomiting from 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.360 panic attacks like and i thought everyone just 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.840 did that for quite a long time uh which sounds 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.779 silly now of course and it sounds silly given 00:13:25.779 --> 00:13:28.500 i've worked in this field for so long but it 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.250 was one of those things where i just didn't recognize 00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:33.529 it in myself for a very long time. And so then 00:13:33.529 --> 00:13:35.809 what happened was, so I started Sunflower Autism 00:13:35.809 --> 00:13:38.649 Consultancy in 2019 after having my two babies 00:13:38.649 --> 00:13:40.090 and having worked in the field for a long time, 00:13:40.110 --> 00:13:41.269 I thought, right, I'm going to take all of my 00:13:41.269 --> 00:13:43.090 knowledge, all my studies, all my experience, 00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:45.429 and I'm going to help as many people as I can, 00:13:45.570 --> 00:13:47.990 basically, mostly parents, but also young people 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:50.929 and late diagnosed adults, sort of mentoring, 00:13:51.029 --> 00:13:53.840 giving advice, strategy, support. And then it 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:58.340 was Autism Awareness Week. And I did a series 00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:01.100 of interviews. I interviewed Temple Grandin. 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.279 Little shout out. That's a little claim to fame. 00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:06.440 I know most people go, who? So I'm quite excited 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:08.460 that you know who that is. No, that's very exciting. 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:11.100 For me, that was big. Queen of autism. Yeah, 00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:13.659 literally. For me, that was big. So that was 00:14:13.659 --> 00:14:15.600 amazing. That was a highlight. Yeah, she's wonderful. 00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:18.490 obviously wonderful must say anyway so I interviewed 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:20.250 I interviewed a series of women I decided to 00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:22.129 focus on women so there is this theme I suppose 00:14:22.129 --> 00:14:24.850 in my life where yeah there's this like I've 00:14:24.850 --> 00:14:26.330 always been surrounded by neurodivergent women 00:14:26.330 --> 00:14:28.090 in a way and that bring me on to my daughter 00:14:28.090 --> 00:14:31.570 in a bit as well but so I interviewed all these 00:14:31.570 --> 00:14:33.629 fascinating women from different walks of life 00:14:33.629 --> 00:14:35.490 different professions and they were all neurodivergent 00:14:35.490 --> 00:14:37.889 and it was I loved it anyway I spoke to this 00:14:37.889 --> 00:14:39.889 woman and she does something similar to myself 00:14:39.889 --> 00:14:42.149 just you know runs a similar organization and 00:14:42.149 --> 00:14:45.009 she started She had a dual diagnosis. Now, this 00:14:45.009 --> 00:14:47.350 was about five, six years ago. So bear in mind, 00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:51.950 this was pre the spikes in us understanding ADHD, 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:53.590 particularly in women, I'd say. Especially in 00:14:53.590 --> 00:14:56.490 women, yeah. Yeah. So even then, I was still, 00:14:56.549 --> 00:14:59.690 I'll be honest and freely admit, like, embarrassingly, 00:14:59.710 --> 00:15:02.309 that I still really had this picture of a little 00:15:02.309 --> 00:15:04.610 boy being very hyper and running around, you 00:15:04.610 --> 00:15:08.139 know. Yeah. Yeah, I'd really... focused on autism 00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:10.519 mostly up until this point. So there I was thinking, 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:12.679 oh yeah, you know, I know loads about autism. 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.539 And she was talking about being autistic. And 00:15:14.539 --> 00:15:16.080 I was thinking, yeah, I know all of this. And 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:17.620 then, and then she started talking about having 00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:21.179 ADHD. And you can see in this interview, I literally 00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:24.740 go, my face starts going like halfway through. 00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:28.159 I'm like, she's literally describing me. She's 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.259 describing my brain. I think she was talking 00:15:30.259 --> 00:15:33.419 about uh the computer analogy where you have 00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:36.559 lots of like tabs open yeah like tabs open and 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.379 i think she was talking about buzzy bees and 00:15:38.379 --> 00:15:40.240 the feeling of just having a really busy brain 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.940 and struggling to do one thing and then how that 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:45.279 becomes overwhelming and she gets emotional and 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.600 i was literally like oh my god like a literal 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.519 light bulb moment i was like that is me and i 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.100 was like whoa i'd never ever ever it's never 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:55.980 crossed my mind And she must have explained it 00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:58.759 very well. So I thought, wow. And of course started 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.820 the Googling, obsessive Googling, which was like, 00:16:00.860 --> 00:16:04.059 ironically, probably another characteristic. 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:08.500 Exactly. And was like, wow, okay. So then I spoke 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:10.580 to a colleague of mine. I work alongside quite 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.659 a lot of psychologists, psychiatrists, various 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:14.720 professionals, and this psychologist friend. 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:16.840 I said, listen, what do you think about this? 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.980 And she sort of went, well, yeah, now you mention 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:21.220 it. I just wrote a few things down that came 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:24.200 to mind. You know, that I can't, I don't drive, 00:16:24.259 --> 00:16:26.980 can't drive because, oh gosh, no way. I would 00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:28.820 have panic attacks and kill people. Cooking, 00:16:29.019 --> 00:16:31.059 I've set the house on fire. I mean, literally, 00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:33.500 you name it. Ridiculous stories that honestly 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:35.220 sound like they're made up. I've spent thousands 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:37.299 of pounds getting on the wrong flights, you know, 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:39.860 et cetera. That again, my long suffering hero 00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:42.019 of a husband is usually bailing me out, putting, 00:16:42.139 --> 00:16:44.299 literally putting out the fires, literally. And 00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:45.740 so when I started, of course, thinking about 00:16:45.740 --> 00:16:47.799 my childhood, I was like, hang on a minute. I 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.100 did have these imaginary friends and I did have 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.559 a doorknob instead of a blanket. which I took 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:54.639 everywhere till I was 18. This is so embarrassing, 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:56.600 isn't it? But all these things. It's not embarrassing. 00:16:56.740 --> 00:16:58.539 This is a real experience and you're not the 00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:00.299 only one. And I think so many people listening 00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:02.820 to this will have children or they themselves 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.140 will be able to relate to everything you're saying. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.779 And it's actually very validating. It isn't ridiculous. 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:10.539 That's the point. I don't know what the figures 00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:13.059 are right now because they're changing so dramatically 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:16.680 as females are learning. This is what new eye 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:20.000 divergence feels like and is. And we're not seeing 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.910 it in public because... I don't know, the low 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:27.430 support needs of us know to hide it. We know 00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:29.690 that it looks ridiculous or that it should be 00:17:29.690 --> 00:17:31.809 unseen. So our husbands, like you said right 00:17:31.809 --> 00:17:33.849 at the beginning, are the only ones that are 00:17:33.849 --> 00:17:37.849 seeing these problems, these disabilities, and 00:17:37.849 --> 00:17:41.029 are supporting us to manage with life, even though 00:17:41.029 --> 00:17:44.309 we are so capable and so incredible at other 00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:45.990 things. Like you said, you've got a degree, you've 00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:48.009 got a master's, and you're a consultancy business. 00:17:48.269 --> 00:17:51.339 You are so capable at those other things. But 00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:55.240 the reality of having this diagnosis is that 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.019 there are lots of things that are incredibly 00:17:57.019 --> 00:17:59.200 difficult for us, which other people just take 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.460 for granted, like putting something in the oven 00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:04.259 and remembering to take it out at the right time 00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:06.440 and being focused enough to do that, you know? 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.059 That is something that people wouldn't even need 00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:12.759 to think about, which is such a huge demand on 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:18.660 our whole system to do that. 100%. So, yeah, 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.259 so I did go down the private route because I'm 00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:22.880 impatient and I thought, I just can't wait. I 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.599 need to know. I was just like, I need to, I want, 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:25.940 because I was literally at this point, I was 00:18:25.940 --> 00:18:28.660 like, obviously about probably 85 % convinced. 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:30.160 And I just thought, I need to know. And you've 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.680 been waiting long enough. Yeah, I was like, I've 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.400 waited 38 years. I need to know now. I did have 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.039 to pay, but I thought, listen, for me, it's worth 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.299 it. And I had, I was a bit nervous, well, obviously 00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:41.099 very nervous. And I had. You know, I don't want 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:43.519 to sound biased or anything, but sometimes I've 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.700 had some bad experiences with male doctors being 00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:48.420 quite condescending. And so I was a bit nervous 00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:50.700 because I could see it was a male consultant 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:52.380 psychiatrist. Were you nervous about judgment? 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:55.240 Or what were they, what was that nerve? Let's 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.079 talk about that. What were you nervous about? 00:18:57.099 --> 00:18:58.859 Nervous that they wouldn't agree with you? Nervous 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:00.119 that you wouldn't see what you're seeing, believe 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.640 you? those things yes i think so i think i was 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.299 i was really nervous that he'd be really condescending 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:09.180 and just yes like not believe me completely invalidate 00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:12.160 me um just from previous i'm not saying like 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.920 all doctors like that obviously not and but i 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.700 have had experiences lots of adults in your life 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:19.299 had been up to that point yes exactly i had been 00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:21.359 dismissed I don't want to say I've been dismissed 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.680 by everyone because that's not fair because my 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.200 parents were very loving and very supportive 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.500 in other ways. But yes, when it came to this, 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:30.859 I had been completely, yeah, it felt like I felt 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.200 I'd not been believed. Yeah, so I was very worried 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.019 about that, I think. But he was lovely. I was 00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:37.559 really lucky and he was absolutely lovely. And 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.859 actually, it was funny because I said, of course, 00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:42.619 I used to do this thing and I'm trying not to 00:19:42.619 --> 00:19:44.880 do it anymore, but where I would be very self 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.000 -critical and make comments, derogatory comments 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.119 about myself. in the middle of a sentence, I'd 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.779 sort of say, God, I'm not making any sense, am 00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:55.200 I? Or sorry, it doesn't make any sense. Or because 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.240 I'd sort of panic. And which obviously, again, 00:19:57.299 --> 00:19:58.920 is all kind of linked in, isn't it, with ADHD. 00:19:59.299 --> 00:20:02.740 And so at one point, I sort of said to him, oh, 00:20:02.859 --> 00:20:04.579 am I rambling up complete rubbish? This doesn't 00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:06.619 make any sense. And he said, no, this makes complete 00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:09.839 sense. And actually, all your answers were very 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:14.140 good and quite detailed. Because you have to 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:15.339 fill in, you know, like the questionnaire and 00:20:15.339 --> 00:20:19.009 everything. And that was really... Very validating. 00:20:19.490 --> 00:20:21.690 Very emotional, actually. I got quite emotional. 00:20:21.950 --> 00:20:25.430 I did shed a tear. Shed a few tears even during 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:27.789 the assessment. Just at the fact that he was 00:20:27.789 --> 00:20:30.670 lovely and kind and validating. And seeing you, 00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:34.390 yeah. And hearing. It's a very vulnerable position 00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:37.250 to be in, to put yourself all out there. You 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.690 know, nobody wants to... do that you've been 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:43.990 hiding all these things about yourself and feeling 00:20:43.990 --> 00:20:46.869 shame i suppose about all these things about 00:20:46.869 --> 00:20:49.210 yourself and all of a sudden you're putting them 00:20:49.210 --> 00:20:50.750 out there to a stranger that's going to judge 00:20:50.750 --> 00:20:52.529 you on them of course you're going to be feeling 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:54.990 a million percent and even though now i realize 00:20:54.990 --> 00:20:57.809 this has made me a million times better at my 00:20:57.809 --> 00:20:59.509 job and like supporting other neurodivergent 00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:00.930 people of course it does because i realize i 00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:02.869 have a lot of lived experience and it's helped 00:21:02.869 --> 00:21:06.890 me with my daughter but at the time i felt yeah 00:21:06.890 --> 00:21:09.809 very embarrassed that i don't know it sounds 00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:12.569 silly now but at the time yes i felt very embarrassed 00:21:12.569 --> 00:21:15.029 very like you say you are very vulnerable you're 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:17.849 basically admitting you know aren't you really 00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:19.970 to the world that you do struggle and because 00:21:19.970 --> 00:21:23.769 i had masked i think so much i really showing 00:21:23.769 --> 00:21:27.150 any weakness is is a big deal to me and so it 00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:29.329 was yeah it was a lot of emotions and then there 00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:32.660 was definitely soon quite soon did they tell 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.940 you yes he basically said yeah on the spot yeah 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:39.160 well partly because there wasn't I'm quite lucky 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.720 in my life in that I hadn't like suffered any 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:45.059 huge traumas or any bad mental health there was 00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:48.430 no sort of like what's the word like comorbid 00:21:48.430 --> 00:21:50.769 conditions or do you know what I mean like it 00:21:50.769 --> 00:21:53.869 hadn't been a misdiagnosis so it could only be 00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:56.490 a neurodivergence it couldn't have come from 00:21:56.490 --> 00:22:00.150 any experience exactly although obviously sad 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:02.609 things have happened to me in my life like everybody 00:22:02.609 --> 00:22:04.970 but there wasn't anything do you know what I 00:22:04.970 --> 00:22:07.049 mean that else it could have been yeah really 00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:11.109 he said it's a clear cut case that it's not like 00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:14.880 anxiety from from an environmental situation 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.380 or a familial situation it's it's that and also 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:20.599 because you could see some very clear examples 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:22.579 from childhood which all came flooding back to 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.640 me once i started honestly blocked out so much 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.559 stuff i'd blocked out because i'm quite good 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.180 at compartmentalizing and blocking things out 00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.680 i now realize and all these things came flooding 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:36.000 back from my childhood um which made complete 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.539 sense with this lens and then hearing him say 00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:44.000 that what was going through your head you know 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.759 you've got validation but what else have you 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.680 got going on when you're hearing those words 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.500 you have adhd i think some anger and some frustration 00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:55.319 looking back particularly at my teachers so one 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.339 of my memories that came back to me was really 00:22:57.339 --> 00:23:00.779 my first ever memory of school which was i think 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.299 i was i was in reception you know i was so four 00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:05.799 or five and i remember this really really clearly 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:08.529 and i was in the classroom and i had this awful 00:23:08.529 --> 00:23:11.130 teacher she was horrid and i did find out she 00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:12.990 was actually later sacked for bullying children 00:23:12.990 --> 00:23:15.829 so it wasn't just me um and she was one of those 00:23:15.829 --> 00:23:18.609 like older people she'd been there for 40 years 00:23:18.609 --> 00:23:20.450 man and boy and had obviously her way of doing 00:23:20.450 --> 00:23:22.329 things and this would have been i don't know 00:23:22.329 --> 00:23:25.809 the late 80s so i suppose you know and she was 00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:28.150 just berate me and we had every friday we had 00:23:28.150 --> 00:23:30.910 a spelling test and a maths test out of 10 with 00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:33.430 little books i remember it so well and everyone 00:23:33.430 --> 00:23:35.529 was getting eight or nine out of ten and i was 00:23:35.529 --> 00:23:37.700 getting two or three out of ten This was also 00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:40.660 my dyslexia, my dyspraxia, my dyscalculia. God, 00:23:40.900 --> 00:23:43.019 it's asking you to do everything you can't do. 00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:47.180 Very unfair. Sit still, concentrate, be quiet. 00:23:47.299 --> 00:23:49.920 Yeah, right. All of the things. And literally, 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.400 yeah, literally talk about setting me up to fail. 00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:55.619 And so instead of thinking, oh, this child. might 00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:58.279 need some help she's not doing very well she 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.220 literally made me stand up in front of the you 00:24:00.220 --> 00:24:02.759 know 25 children and berated me every friday 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.400 which yeah it was pretty awful four and five 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:09.200 is so well at any age i mean i i would struggle 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.140 coping with that as an adult yeah quite as a 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:16.829 child Who's so vulnerable. That must have had 00:24:16.829 --> 00:24:19.650 such an impact on everything moving forward. 00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:21.309 Yeah, I think that really stayed with me. And 00:24:21.309 --> 00:24:23.509 that's one of the reasons why I had this image 00:24:23.509 --> 00:24:26.009 of myself and all these, yeah, very negative. 00:24:26.789 --> 00:24:30.490 So yes, so some interesting things came back. 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:33.109 So definitely some frustration, I think, and 00:24:33.109 --> 00:24:35.309 some anger. You know, really every emotion, you 00:24:35.309 --> 00:24:37.089 do go through a lot of emotions, don't you? And 00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:39.509 you process it. And even now I have good weeks 00:24:39.509 --> 00:24:41.289 and bad weeks. Weeks where I think, oh, this 00:24:41.289 --> 00:24:44.549 is... So annoying. It's just frustrating. But 00:24:44.549 --> 00:24:46.869 also weeks where I smash it. I guess that's the 00:24:46.869 --> 00:24:49.210 nature of it, isn't it? It's so extreme. And 00:24:49.210 --> 00:24:53.349 it is that spiky profile. But it definitely has 00:24:53.349 --> 00:24:57.329 shaped me and shaped the support I provide for 00:24:57.329 --> 00:25:01.730 families, shaped my parenting, and made me passionate 00:25:01.730 --> 00:25:04.829 about helping people understand the neurodiversity. 00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:07.650 I just did a talk last week for a group of parents 00:25:07.650 --> 00:25:09.990 online about... talking to your child about their 00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:12.650 neurodiversity and the amount of people who don't 00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:14.690 really think to do that is actually unbelievable 00:25:14.690 --> 00:25:17.109 and I'm really passionate and exactly for these 00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:18.910 reasons we've just discussed. So what's the benefit 00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:21.029 of that so you've got your daughter haven't you 00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:23.049 and obviously you've got lived experience as 00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:26.710 well what is the benefit of talking to your child 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:29.049 about their diagnosis and and what kind of tips 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:31.390 would you have around navigating that conversation? 00:25:32.380 --> 00:25:35.440 Yeah, great question. So I think the main things 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.700 are that their wellbeing and their mental health 00:25:37.700 --> 00:25:40.440 are going to be better because Exactly as we've 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.700 said with my lived experience, you know, I thought 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:45.059 I was thick. I thought I was stupid. And I'm 00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:46.920 lucky that I didn't have like terrible depression 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.819 or anxiety, but it wasn't great, you know. And 00:25:49.819 --> 00:25:52.440 so certainly in terms of mental health and well 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.880 -being, it can really help a lot of neurodivergent 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.619 people have this strong feeling of, you know, 00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.339 I'm not good enough. What's wrong with me? Why 00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:01.720 aren't I? Why are my peers able to do this? And 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:04.039 I'm not. Why is it so easy for them? And so it's 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:06.970 certainly. massive in terms of that and just 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:09.369 other things is like maybe finding your tribe 00:26:09.369 --> 00:26:12.230 finding people like -minded people with similar 00:26:12.230 --> 00:26:14.069 interests who have similar lived experiences 00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:16.190 you know and especially we know a lot of neurodivergent 00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:19.250 young people and people maybe either need some 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.130 help or support with friendships and social situations 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:26.109 so i think finding other people like you, whether 00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:28.009 it's Minecraft or Lego or, you know, whatever 00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:29.789 it is. And just having that lived experience, 00:26:29.950 --> 00:26:31.890 like I'll never forget my daughter came home 00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:33.710 and one of her best friends had been diagnosed 00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:36.230 with ADHD. And she said, so -and -so told me 00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:38.170 that, you know, they've been diagnosed. And I 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:39.710 said, all right, what do you think about that 00:26:39.710 --> 00:26:41.549 then? Just having no idea what she was going 00:26:41.549 --> 00:26:43.430 to say. And she said, it was great, isn't it? 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:45.470 We're twins, you know, we're the same. And so 00:26:45.470 --> 00:26:47.490 she sort of welcomed her into the club. And imagine 00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:49.470 that positive experience the other child has 00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:51.809 had, being welcomed into the club by my daughter. 00:26:52.089 --> 00:26:55.730 And fully understood. Yeah, as opposed to what 00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:57.309 people are scared of, which is it's going to 00:26:57.309 --> 00:26:59.509 be a stigma. It's going to be a negative experience, 00:26:59.809 --> 00:27:01.750 which, of course, unfortunately, maybe in the 00:27:01.750 --> 00:27:05.869 past was the case. But I think it's just such 00:27:05.869 --> 00:27:09.630 an important thing to, yeah, to help children 00:27:09.630 --> 00:27:11.930 understand themselves and who they are going 00:27:11.930 --> 00:27:13.970 forward. And for the adults around them to understand 00:27:13.970 --> 00:27:15.849 who they are and what supports them as well. 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:18.210 They can all read that report if the child is 00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:21.349 willing, or at least a summary of the report. 00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:25.160 To find out, yeah, what can support this child 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.559 from the experts that have seen and assessed 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.180 them and their whole profile to know, you know, 00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:34.400 would they need movement breaks? Would they need 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:36.359 fidgets? Would they need a quiet area if there 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.900 is any exams? Would they need a note take or 00:27:38.900 --> 00:27:40.740 anything? You know, that goes for any diagnosis, 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:43.920 not just ADHD. That goes for anything, for the 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.519 adults involved, teachers, parents, extended 00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:52.750 family, to all be aware of the child's... and 00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.349 abilities and everything in between so that they 00:27:55.349 --> 00:27:59.410 can adapt the environment to suit them best. 00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:02.109 100%, yeah. And I think my daughter, she's given 00:28:02.109 --> 00:28:03.589 me permission to talk about her. She doesn't 00:28:03.589 --> 00:28:05.130 mind. Okay, I was going to ask that. I didn't 00:28:05.130 --> 00:28:06.849 want to ask too much because it's her story to 00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.390 tell. I know it is, but yes, so I've got two 00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:11.990 children. So Lily is eight and she's diagnosed 00:28:11.990 --> 00:28:14.250 with ADHD and my little boy Elias, he's six. 00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:17.630 He's neurotypical, far as we know. They're chalk 00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:19.910 and cheese. He's super chilled. And Lily, yeah, 00:28:19.990 --> 00:28:21.849 again, she's a great example of what you've just 00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:24.309 said, I think, because she can be impulsive. 00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:27.349 She can be disruptive, quote unquote, because 00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:29.750 she does really struggle to not shout out, not 00:28:29.750 --> 00:28:33.670 talk in class. And yeah, she struggles to sit 00:28:33.670 --> 00:28:35.930 still. She needs to be busy all the time. She 00:28:35.930 --> 00:28:38.259 struggles with unstructured time. I mean, I could 00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:40.440 go on, but all these things obviously are challenging 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.220 in a classroom where there's 25 other children 00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:44.819 in there. And I think she's definitely one of 00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:47.420 those children who, back in the day when I was 00:28:47.420 --> 00:28:49.119 at school, would have been probably in the corridor. 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:51.779 She'd have been thrown out. But now they understand 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:54.200 her needs because we went down that route. We 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:55.880 were very lucky. A teacher actually, funnily 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.059 enough, picked up on it when she was six, so 00:28:58.059 --> 00:29:00.319 two years ago now, so quite young. And because 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.130 we... went down that path and everything. I'm 00:29:03.130 --> 00:29:04.789 pleased we did because it's not always easy, 00:29:04.849 --> 00:29:07.569 of course, but she knows herself. She can advocate 00:29:07.569 --> 00:29:09.710 for herself. That's another thing about somebody 00:29:09.710 --> 00:29:11.410 understanding themselves that's so important. 00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:13.390 And she's got the support she needs in place 00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:15.329 now. And like you say, the adults around her, 00:29:15.369 --> 00:29:17.980 they know she's not. doing these things maliciously 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:19.759 she's not doing them on purpose she's a kind 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.359 lovely person but she just gets a bit you know 00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.599 overstimulated or understimulated or she's looking 00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:26.039 her brain's looking for dopamine her brain is 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.799 wired differently it's not a choice in this it 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.819 is it is it looks physically different there 00:29:31.819 --> 00:29:34.660 is a physical difference and a chemical difference 00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:38.240 in somebody with ADHD or somebody with autism 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:43.599 in comparison to somebody without it is uncontrollable 00:29:44.329 --> 00:29:48.210 It's quite an unfair comparison, isn't it really? 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:50.690 Yeah. And I can see it in my children because 00:29:50.690 --> 00:29:52.910 I look at Elias, like I say, he's neurotypical. 00:29:53.170 --> 00:29:54.470 Obviously, he's a six -year -old boy, so now 00:29:54.470 --> 00:29:57.990 and then he's like a bit hyper. Generally speaking, 00:29:58.089 --> 00:30:00.569 he's really, really calm. And so if we were to 00:30:00.569 --> 00:30:02.089 compare the two of them, it's just completely 00:30:02.089 --> 00:30:05.289 unfair because he's super calm, super chilled, 00:30:05.349 --> 00:30:07.250 like rarely, I can count the amount of meltdowns 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:09.230 he's had on one hand. You know, I mean, I'm touching 00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:10.990 wood as I'm saying these words, obviously, but 00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:12.849 he's just not like that. He can entertain himself. 00:30:12.990 --> 00:30:15.190 He's very self -directed. He'll just take himself 00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:18.250 off, start doing his drawing. Lily is not like 00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:21.710 that. Because the world around us is built for 00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:27.380 people like him. So he... can feel settled in 00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:29.980 his body and he can feel like everything makes 00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:31.960 sense because everything is built around him 00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:35.819 if the world was built for yeah your daughter 00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:40.460 or you or me of the world then maybe your son 00:30:40.460 --> 00:30:43.660 wouldn't cope so well exactly 100 so that's kind 00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:46.099 of the point isn't it it's not it's it's only 00:30:46.099 --> 00:30:49.900 disabling because of the environment around us 00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:53.549 and i think that's why labels and diagnosis is 00:30:53.549 --> 00:30:56.349 so important because it enables the adults around 00:30:56.349 --> 00:30:58.990 us to create an environment in which these children 00:30:58.990 --> 00:31:01.650 and adults can thrive exactly right exactly right 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:04.430 not change them no that's not what we're saying 00:31:04.430 --> 00:31:06.690 i'll give you one example as we went for a family 00:31:06.690 --> 00:31:09.549 lunch recently uh with you know grandpa my dad 00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:11.410 and and family members and it was quite a long 00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:13.690 lunch because there was some uh people are not 00:31:13.690 --> 00:31:16.269 so mobile so they couldn't walk too much and 00:31:16.269 --> 00:31:18.529 but it was fine because elias sat at the table 00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:20.650 he did his coloring he played his games he chatted 00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:23.069 he did whatever he sat at that table the entire 00:31:23.069 --> 00:31:25.190 time i mean it was probably a three hour we were 00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:28.210 there but it was fine because lily got up she 00:31:28.210 --> 00:31:30.750 walked around i'd brought activities for her 00:31:30.750 --> 00:31:32.789 she came to sit on my knee and get some physical 00:31:32.789 --> 00:31:36.180 contact she went we let her go outside and we 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:37.960 let her wander around basically in a safe way 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:39.920 obviously and not getting in other people's ways 00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.740 but um let her just she just had movement breaks 00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:44.900 whenever she needed whenever she was getting 00:31:44.900 --> 00:31:46.759 a bit hyper i might say oh shall i come with 00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:49.299 you for a minute and we'll do this or do you 00:31:49.299 --> 00:31:50.880 want to make me a bracelet should we bring her 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.500 loom bands everywhere we go so exactly as you 00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:56.420 say about not trying to mold her and make her 00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:58.660 sit still and be quiet but it was about changing 00:31:58.660 --> 00:32:01.200 the environment and the supports and our understanding 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.920 and nobody battered an eyelid because they know 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.640 her really well by now and also you managed that 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.160 situation really well how do you have been different 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.240 in that situation and had different expectations 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.619 of her it could have looked very different and 00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:14.900 felt very different for her which before her 00:32:14.900 --> 00:32:17.019 diagnosis i might have done I'll be honest. I 00:32:17.019 --> 00:32:18.759 look back and there's things I regret doing because 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:22.279 I was trying to, I now realize. Well, you had 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.220 different unfair expectations of her, but you 00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:26.539 had realistic expectations of someone that you 00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:28.559 thought was neurotypical, I suppose. Exactly. 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.319 But again, so important to know, isn't it? Because 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.960 knowledge is power. Yeah, to make those reasonable 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.740 adjustments. Exactly. And you probably did do 00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:41.900 it before naturally just because she's your child 00:32:41.900 --> 00:32:45.470 and you did do, would just naturally like. molding 00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:47.990 to do things in a certain way doing things in 00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:50.490 a certain way naturally but gosh having that 00:32:50.490 --> 00:32:53.670 actual concrete answer and reason just helps 00:32:53.670 --> 00:32:55.809 you her knowing what i'm also really passionate 00:32:55.809 --> 00:32:57.549 about is not just children understanding their 00:32:57.549 --> 00:32:59.950 neurodiversity but her knowing what works for 00:32:59.950 --> 00:33:03.059 her so For example, I teach parents these types 00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:05.240 of strategies, but what I realized is they're 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:07.500 not passing them on to their child. And for me, 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:09.299 that's the next step, but that's almost the most 00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:11.940 important step. So what I do with Lily is I'm 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:14.119 not just saying, let's go for a movement break. 00:33:14.140 --> 00:33:16.410 I'm saying. Or is your brain feeling a bit fizzy? 00:33:16.410 --> 00:33:18.329 You're a bit amber fizzy, aren't you? Like, what 00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:19.930 do you think? Shall we go and get some dopamine? 00:33:20.009 --> 00:33:21.430 Your brain, maybe it's a bit low on dopamine. 00:33:21.509 --> 00:33:22.789 We need to have a movement break to help you 00:33:22.789 --> 00:33:24.529 feel better. She'll be like, oh yeah, definitely. 00:33:24.809 --> 00:33:25.809 And then after, she'll be like, are you feeling 00:33:25.809 --> 00:33:27.349 better now? And she'll be like, yeah. So again, 00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:30.410 this transparency and this openness, I feel is 00:33:30.410 --> 00:33:32.009 helping her. Because then when I'm not there, 00:33:32.089 --> 00:33:33.670 I'm not always going to be there. When she's 00:33:33.670 --> 00:33:35.589 out with her mates or she's at the soft play 00:33:35.589 --> 00:33:37.390 and I'm not there every second of the day, because 00:33:37.390 --> 00:33:39.309 she's already eight, we all know it goes so quickly. 00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:42.950 when she's at school or when she's at day camp 00:33:42.950 --> 00:33:45.369 or wherever else she's going to be she can advocate 00:33:45.369 --> 00:33:47.710 for herself she can say oh miss I think I need 00:33:47.710 --> 00:33:49.410 a bit of a movement break now can I go you're 00:33:49.410 --> 00:33:51.250 giving her that language aren't you and those 00:33:51.250 --> 00:33:54.029 tools to be able to manage her needs so that 00:33:54.029 --> 00:33:56.670 yeah as she grows up you want her to be as empowered 00:33:56.670 --> 00:33:59.890 and independent as possible to be able to advocate 00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:03.890 for herself and and meet her needs safely appropriately 00:34:03.890 --> 00:34:06.470 whatever that means you know adapt her environment 00:34:06.470 --> 00:34:10.659 so that she can instead of maybe how undiagnosed 00:34:10.659 --> 00:34:12.820 people have in the past where we know that there's 00:34:12.820 --> 00:34:15.079 a lot of like there's higher like addiction rates 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.679 you know and there's alcohol and drug abuse vulnerable 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:21.079 in relationship yes exactly especially for girls 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:23.400 it's such a worry people please inform kind of 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:27.059 behavior that need exactly love attention connection 00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:30.500 can be very be abused they're very vulnerable 00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:32.840 to that and that's something that i think is 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.960 quite common when females with neurodivergence 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:40.400 is that is almost innocence and easily manipulated 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.940 vulnerability as far as sexual relationships 00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:45.719 and sexual relationships as well. So friendship 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.239 relationships and partners as well. Incredibly 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:53.460 vulnerable because of that masking, want to please, 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.639 want to fit in, want for connection, but also 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.280 not really understanding that it can be incredibly 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.659 easily manipulated. 100%. and not realising why. 00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:05.719 And a great example recently of her advocating 00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:09.119 for herself was she goes to this day camp and 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:11.340 we'd never really told them just purely because 00:35:11.340 --> 00:35:14.820 it hadn't really come up and it wasn't like a 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.920 conscious decision. But then she said to me, 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:20.739 oh, could you let them know about my diagnosis? 00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:22.380 And I said, oh, yeah, no problem. Why is that? 00:35:22.460 --> 00:35:25.480 And she said, well, I just feel that they might 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:27.099 understand me a bit better. So I said, yeah, 00:35:27.099 --> 00:35:28.920 no problem. So I let them know. They were like, 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.800 great, no problem. We'll tell everyone discreetly, 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.480 obviously. in a discreet way and then she came 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.599 home like the next day and said oh thanks for 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.559 telling them that was great because um when we 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:40.039 were doing I can't remember what sport they were 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.340 doing you know a sport um I just was feeling 00:35:42.340 --> 00:35:43.639 a bit overwhelmed and needed a little bit of 00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:45.800 a break and they let me have a bit of a break 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.159 whereas before they were sort of a bit more pushy 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.239 and kind of not making me do it but you know 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.980 a bit more less uh open to me having a bit of 00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:57.320 a break and so I thought Amazing. This is it. 00:35:57.320 --> 00:35:58.940 Because I've modeled that for her and we've been 00:35:58.940 --> 00:36:00.880 so open and transparent about it. She's advocating 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.860 for herself. And like you say, hopefully she's 00:36:02.860 --> 00:36:05.500 already advocating for herself now in that situation. 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.400 She'd be more likely to do that later on when 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:09.960 she's feeling vulnerable. And understand those 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.360 things. And if you've got that open communication 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:13.960 with her and she's got that open communication 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.880 with friends that have a similar diagnosis, she's 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.920 got people to question like, this happened. Is 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.059 this okay? Or I was feeling like this. How was 00:36:22.059 --> 00:36:24.699 that? And she can question that as well. She's 00:36:24.699 --> 00:36:28.820 open to... that with safe people that she knows 00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:31.360 that she can get realistic and understanding 00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:33.920 guidance from which is also setting her up to 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:36.719 succeed and understand the world and understand 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.480 herself and keep herself safe in that moment 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.179 which is also a reason for diagnosis and labels 00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:47.360 100 do you have if somebody's listening to this 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.260 and thinking yep yep yep this is my child or 00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:51.840 yes yes this is me is there any like reading 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.139 or other research they could do or where where 00:36:54.139 --> 00:36:56.699 do they turn to kind of find out more about this 00:36:56.699 --> 00:37:00.119 or to kind of support themselves? Yeah. Well, 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.320 first of all, I'd say come and find me and come 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.800 and find Sunflower Autism Consultancy. I've got 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.059 a big Facebook group. I'm on Instagram as well. 00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:09.840 And I share a lot of information about this kind 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:11.760 of stuff on there. Not only that, but I do a 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:15.079 lot of either free or low cost group workshops 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.900 online via Zoom to help as many people as I can 00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:20.800 on various different topics, autism, PDA, ADHD. 00:37:21.939 --> 00:37:23.400 understanding neurodiversity, talking to your 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.860 child about it, all these things we've covered. 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.199 And feel free to get in touch with me as well, 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:29.059 because like I said, I do support families one 00:37:29.059 --> 00:37:31.059 -to -one. The other thing I'd say is, yeah, you 00:37:31.059 --> 00:37:33.280 know, knowledge is power. The great thing is 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:34.760 there's a lot of great books out there now. I'm 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.139 just looking in my little shelves here. So this 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:39.380 one's Neurodiversity, What's That? And you can 00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:41.280 just get this on Amazon. And this is a great 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:43.800 one if you're kind of starting out and maybe... 00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:45.519 You're on a waiting list, as lots of people are, 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.519 and so you're not quite 100 % sure what the diagnosis 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:49.199 is going to be, but you're pretty sure they're 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:51.679 neurodivergent. I think the word neurodivergent 00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.920 is quite a good term to start with, to kind of 00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.219 maybe have that drip feed approach and just start 00:37:58.219 --> 00:38:00.880 having those casual, discreet conversations. 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.659 Some children are really not as open to it as 00:38:05.659 --> 00:38:08.420 others. Usually children who have more of a PDA 00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:11.460 profile are quite discreet, private people. So 00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:13.880 in which case, maybe just leave a book like around 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.079 and they can look at it on their own terms when 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:19.280 they feel they've got autonomy over it. Or, you 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:21.659 know, suggest a video. There's some great videos 00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:24.900 on YouTube. Again, they're shared in my Facebook 00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:26.900 group somewhere, if you searched in that group. 00:38:27.099 --> 00:38:28.920 And the great thing is there's a lot more sort 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.119 of resources out there now, isn't there? ADHD 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:32.820 Foundation, I don't know if you've ever shared 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:36.619 that. It's really good for ADHD and PGA Society, 00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:40.760 UK for PGA. There's people out there if you need 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.039 support and you're not alone, for sure. Sounds 00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:45.219 amazing. So definitely go and follow Sunflower 00:38:45.219 --> 00:38:49.739 Autism and Julia over on Instagram and then sunflowerautismconsultancy 00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:52.280 .co .uk is her website and she'll have all the 00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.559 things on there. Thank you so much for joining 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.019 me, Julia, and talking so openly and honestly 00:38:57.019 --> 00:38:59.840 about your lived experience. And I know it's 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.300 going to support people out there. So thank you. 00:39:02.829 --> 00:39:03.889 thank you so much for having me