WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.819 Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom 00:00:02.819 --> 00:00:06.660 podcast. Today I am joined by Nicola who you 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:08.919 may know and may already follow on Instagram 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.900 as Happy Hands with Hallie. Hello Nicola. Hello. 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:17.460 So you are mum of new I Do Virgin family of some 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:22.320 girls and there's Hallie and Bonnie isn't there? 00:00:22.539 --> 00:00:25.469 Yes. and you were one of the first accounts that 00:00:25.469 --> 00:00:28.230 i started following when i started sharing on 00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:31.510 this account and i was just enamored it was honey 00:00:31.510 --> 00:00:34.689 that i saw actually initially and her gorgeous 00:00:34.689 --> 00:00:38.890 stims and she's just so cute and she reminds 00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:42.500 me of so many of my students i was I was, yeah, 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:44.759 I was just fixated from the start, really, when 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:47.140 I found your account. What was it that made you 00:00:47.140 --> 00:00:49.920 start wanting to share? And how long have you 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.179 been sharing on Instagram? It must be getting 00:00:52.179 --> 00:00:55.640 on three years. It's got to be. I remember Hallie 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:58.039 was, she must have been around the age of two, 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.579 two and a half. And I remember starting to have 00:01:00.579 --> 00:01:03.780 those thoughts that maybe she's autistic. She 00:01:03.780 --> 00:01:06.519 had all these behaviors that I'd never seen before, 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.890 like I'd never seen. a child flapping well she 00:01:09.890 --> 00:01:12.489 began with kicking her legs so she would just 00:01:12.489 --> 00:01:14.969 kick her legs and she would just make like the 00:01:14.969 --> 00:01:17.650 o shape with her mouth and stiffen up her whole 00:01:17.650 --> 00:01:20.390 body and she would spend so much time doing that 00:01:20.390 --> 00:01:23.569 and I was just I'd never met another child that 00:01:23.569 --> 00:01:27.769 had done that and then when I started to put 00:01:27.769 --> 00:01:30.189 everything together and realize actually I think 00:01:30.189 --> 00:01:32.450 she's autistic and we started to go through that 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:35.849 diagnosis process I because I felt in that position 00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:39.599 of When I first started out, I had no idea what 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.819 this looked like. I thought it'd be so good to 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:44.219 actually share this and actually be kind of be 00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:48.079 the person that I needed when I was at that beginning 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.280 stage. And so that's kind of how my mindset was 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.700 at that was be what I needed. And so that's when 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:56.920 I began sharing and I just began sharing and 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:01.439 I really didn't expect her account to go the 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.140 way it went. I was just, I had a few hundred 00:02:04.140 --> 00:02:08.259 followers. um and i was just sharing i was just 00:02:08.259 --> 00:02:10.900 there was no i didn't even want it to grow at 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:13.599 that point like it was just i was just sharing 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:17.000 and then all of a sudden it just kind of blew 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.139 up overnight and then we ended up with this amazing 00:02:20.139 --> 00:02:23.180 community and and it went from there really so 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.400 yeah you were right though i think lots of people 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:28.719 need what you needed i think lots of people need 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:34.199 to know an inside honest account of yeah what 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:37.860 they're seeing basically and to know that it's 00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.280 okay it it just means autism and this is what 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.620 it can mean and it might mean this and it might 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:45.300 mean that and these are some things that we go 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:49.919 through daily you share so honestly and open 00:02:50.909 --> 00:02:54.009 And you do talk about the reality, I feel, but 00:02:54.009 --> 00:02:56.689 I feel like you do it in such a way and not all 00:02:56.689 --> 00:02:58.469 accounts manage this. I feel like you do it in 00:02:58.469 --> 00:03:01.110 such a way that is still really respectful to 00:03:01.110 --> 00:03:03.270 your children and what they're going through. 00:03:03.550 --> 00:03:08.550 How do you navigate how much you share to keep 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:12.949 it real, but also what you don't share to give 00:03:12.949 --> 00:03:16.389 them some kind of, I don't know, anonymity, I 00:03:16.389 --> 00:03:19.330 suppose. How do you navigate that? Because that's 00:03:19.330 --> 00:03:23.389 tricky. Yeah, I think I tend to do it with my 00:03:23.389 --> 00:03:26.680 words. That's one thing that I've always really 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:29.800 enjoyed or even as a child growing up was writing 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.659 and expressing through writing so I like poetry 00:03:32.659 --> 00:03:36.020 anything expressive so videos I find well I find 00:03:36.020 --> 00:03:38.259 an art to it like you know like putting the videos 00:03:38.259 --> 00:03:40.060 together putting the words and the music like 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:42.680 I really enjoy putting them together and that's 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:45.460 what I see it as so while I might not be showing 00:03:45.460 --> 00:03:49.719 Halle in distress or upset or anything like that 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:52.319 I find if I get the right music and I get the 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.250 right words then I can actually put the emotion 00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:58.830 of what is going on into that video without actually 00:03:58.830 --> 00:04:01.509 showing, you know, stuff that really goes on. 00:04:01.610 --> 00:04:04.569 Because for me, I don't want to show Halle in 00:04:04.569 --> 00:04:07.270 when she's upset. I don't want to show when she's 00:04:07.270 --> 00:04:09.610 in meltdown or anything like that. There's the 00:04:09.610 --> 00:04:11.849 odd thing that I've shown that might be Halle 00:04:11.849 --> 00:04:15.550 getting cross because... I love it. Sometimes 00:04:15.550 --> 00:04:18.910 you have to see the comical side of things and, 00:04:18.949 --> 00:04:20.850 you know, when her eyebrows drop and... It is 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:25.370 funny, isn't it? it bless her it's so yeah it's 00:04:25.370 --> 00:04:27.529 just so cute it's so cute but I feel like you 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.790 you manage that in such a way of also sharing 00:04:30.790 --> 00:04:33.689 the reality I know I've followed you since your 00:04:33.689 --> 00:04:35.829 you were really struggling with getting high 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:39.329 to school and that was really stressful she missed 00:04:39.329 --> 00:04:41.209 a lot of school wasn't she she was out for weeks 00:04:41.209 --> 00:04:44.870 at a time and and then day on day you know you 00:04:44.870 --> 00:04:47.050 never knew in the morning whether it would be 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:48.990 a wanting to go to school day or not and more 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:51.329 and more it wasn't and wanting to go to school 00:04:51.329 --> 00:04:58.040 day yeah And that's a real hard time. And I think 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.480 you navigated it really beautifully because you 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:01.819 were sharing the reality, but you were still 00:05:01.819 --> 00:05:05.500 advocating for her. It wasn't shaming her. It 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:07.839 wasn't blaming her. It wasn't even shaming or 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:09.899 blaming the school, actually. You did it so incredibly 00:05:09.899 --> 00:05:13.920 well. Yeah. Just openly laying it on the table. 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.980 This is, like, it's fact. This is just what it 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:20.920 is. Yeah. Yeah. Hallie doesn't want to be there. 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.899 they can't meet her needs like it's like it's 00:05:23.899 --> 00:05:25.639 just it just is and i think you did that really 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:28.040 beautifully i think you did it really well yeah 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.879 yeah i did it was i do remember at the time like 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.040 it may not have there was a lot of things that 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.199 i didn't share at that time especially with probably 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:37.899 my emotions and my well -being and things like 00:05:37.899 --> 00:05:40.019 i was really struggling and i have shared that 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:42.519 later on down the line and said you know some 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.319 mornings like i would be struggling with anxiety 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.879 i would get on i'd be on the school run and i 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:52.110 would feel panic and i think i was more panicking 00:05:52.110 --> 00:05:55.850 about panicking rather than right yeah it was 00:05:55.850 --> 00:05:57.949 like a bit of a vicious cycle that I got into 00:05:57.949 --> 00:06:02.129 and I've always been I'm not now I've come really 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.730 far but back then and you know growing up I've 00:06:04.730 --> 00:06:06.529 always been a bit of a worry I've always been 00:06:06.529 --> 00:06:08.670 that person that cares what other people think 00:06:08.670 --> 00:06:12.050 so while I was sharing the journey I was also 00:06:12.050 --> 00:06:16.910 quite conscious about you know with the school 00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:19.250 and I didn't want to say anything to upset the 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:21.889 school because at the end of the day they were 00:06:21.889 --> 00:06:23.970 all just doing their best with the resources 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:26.189 and the money that they had and they're lovely 00:06:26.189 --> 00:06:28.430 people and I could have come on like there were 00:06:28.430 --> 00:06:30.209 times where I could have come on and just cried 00:06:30.209 --> 00:06:32.550 and just been like this has been the most awful 00:06:32.550 --> 00:06:35.629 morning and there's been sort of times where 00:06:35.629 --> 00:06:38.370 especially when she was in nursery where there 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:40.430 wouldn't be enough staff there and so I'd end 00:06:40.430 --> 00:06:42.470 up having to take her home with me and it was 00:06:42.470 --> 00:06:44.610 some things I didn't share at the time because 00:06:44.610 --> 00:06:48.379 I felt that it just it wasn't anybody's fault 00:06:48.379 --> 00:06:51.139 and I didn't want it to come across like I was 00:06:51.139 --> 00:06:54.319 blaming anybody because I understood that actually 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:57.240 they're not they're not always equipped for a 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.959 child that is trying to escape the playground 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:02.339 or not wanting to go in and then they haven't 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:04.459 got that additional member of staff and obviously 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:07.569 back then it was the early days where She didn't 00:07:07.569 --> 00:07:10.189 have any EHCP and things like that. So there 00:07:10.189 --> 00:07:12.269 were things and there was a lot more things that 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:14.269 were going on that I didn't necessarily share 00:07:14.269 --> 00:07:17.089 because I didn't want it. And I never do even 00:07:17.089 --> 00:07:19.550 now. I would never want it to come across that 00:07:19.550 --> 00:07:22.490 I was mad at that school or mad at any teacher 00:07:22.490 --> 00:07:24.129 because they were brilliant and they did their 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:26.509 best. And especially with Hallie and things like 00:07:26.509 --> 00:07:28.310 that, like with sharing things about her, like 00:07:28.310 --> 00:07:32.449 she would get so angry. And I would always sort 00:07:32.449 --> 00:07:34.769 of say on there that it was extreme and it really 00:07:34.769 --> 00:07:36.990 was extreme, but I'm never going to show it because 00:07:36.990 --> 00:07:40.370 I'm not going to show that. But yeah, I tried 00:07:40.370 --> 00:07:42.569 to kind of get it across in the most respectful 00:07:42.569 --> 00:07:45.129 way what we was actually experiencing without 00:07:45.129 --> 00:07:48.050 actually shaming anybody or showing anything. 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.620 And so hopefully I did an okay job at it. I think 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:53.500 that's an incredibly hard challenge. I think 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:55.439 you did do a really, really great job at that. 00:07:55.540 --> 00:07:57.939 I think that's exactly how it came across. It 00:07:57.939 --> 00:07:59.800 came back. You shared everything you needed to 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:01.800 share and nothing that you didn't. And I think 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.360 you navigated that, considering what a place 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.139 you must have been in. I think you did navigate 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:10.560 that really, really well. Yeah, yeah. No, it 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.660 was. I think it's probably the hardest time. 00:08:14.410 --> 00:08:17.529 that I've probably faced so far in my life I 00:08:17.529 --> 00:08:19.009 think I'm trying to think if there's anything 00:08:19.009 --> 00:08:21.029 that tops it and I don't think there is that 00:08:21.029 --> 00:08:24.089 particular year of Hallie going to school me 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:26.949 leaving my job that first year of the school 00:08:26.949 --> 00:08:30.149 refusals and then the amount of meetings and 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:34.519 I can feel, even talking about it, I can feel 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.720 the tightness of just having to go to those meetings 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.379 and have to try and advocate for myself because, 00:08:40.580 --> 00:08:43.000 again, I don't think teachers mean to do it. 00:08:43.059 --> 00:08:45.460 I really don't think they mean to do it at all. 00:08:45.500 --> 00:08:47.620 But because of the process that they've got in 00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:49.580 place of you've got to do this and you've got 00:08:49.580 --> 00:08:52.440 to do that, it makes, as a parent, you feel like 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:55.399 that's blaming you. And it is just those, like, 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:57.179 bring her in this time, bring her in that time. 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:00.649 So obviously there's an attendance policy. And 00:09:00.649 --> 00:09:02.350 obviously that's what they're trying to meet. 00:09:02.509 --> 00:09:04.730 And I'm like, I'm not going to bring her in her 00:09:04.730 --> 00:09:07.009 pyjamas. I'm not going to bring her in screaming 00:09:07.009 --> 00:09:09.190 without a head and without a toothbrush. Like, 00:09:09.230 --> 00:09:13.529 it's just not fair. She really doesn't want to 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:15.110 come to the point that she's not even allowing 00:09:15.110 --> 00:09:18.570 me to meet her basic needs. But then, like I 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:20.590 say, there's that attendance policy that then... 00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:23.269 Yeah, but ultimately, I think you made the right 00:09:23.269 --> 00:09:25.730 decision, though, because she was communicating 00:09:25.730 --> 00:09:29.190 that she wasn't happy there. Wasn't she? That 00:09:29.190 --> 00:09:31.929 was what she was communicating. If that behavior 00:09:31.929 --> 00:09:35.850 and all that output of what she was doing, whatever 00:09:35.850 --> 00:09:39.250 it was, was words, it would have been saying, 00:09:39.429 --> 00:09:43.070 I don't feel safe there. I can't be myself there. 00:09:43.409 --> 00:09:45.350 Whatever it was, you know, she was communicating 00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:47.990 that she wasn't happy. So you had to be her voice 00:09:47.990 --> 00:09:50.250 in that moment, didn't you? And it sounds like 00:09:50.250 --> 00:09:53.649 you did that really well. Is there anything looking 00:09:53.649 --> 00:09:56.730 back? Now the fog's cleared a little bit. And 00:09:56.730 --> 00:09:58.649 you're a little bit more settled in what you're 00:09:58.649 --> 00:10:01.370 doing now and we'll get into that in a bit. Looking 00:10:01.370 --> 00:10:04.129 back, is there anything that you wished you could 00:10:04.129 --> 00:10:06.950 have done or that the school could have done 00:10:06.950 --> 00:10:10.950 differently? I think for me, because I was at 00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:14.549 the time such a worrier and cared so much about 00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:17.730 what everyone was thinking about me, I don't 00:10:17.730 --> 00:10:20.549 think I was as transparent as what I could have 00:10:20.549 --> 00:10:25.700 been. especially when it came to sort of how 00:10:25.700 --> 00:10:28.639 Hallie was struggling. And I think sometimes 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.559 I wanted to go along with things and be a bit 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.759 of a pleaser. Like, yeah, we can try that. We 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.799 can try that. Even though I know deep down that's 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:38.340 not going to work. I know it's not. But the pleaser 00:10:38.340 --> 00:10:40.860 in me was wanting to go along with that to make 00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:43.240 them happy and look like a good person, I guess. 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.340 And now I feel like I've gained that confidence. 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:49.379 I wish I had it back then. I wish I had that 00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:52.399 voice back then to be a bit braver and to say 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:54.419 exactly what I was thinking. So yeah, I would 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:56.360 have definitely done that differently. I would 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:59.659 have been just, yeah, more transparent in what 00:10:59.659 --> 00:11:03.200 we needed. From the school's point of view. I'm 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.700 really not sure because I felt, I did feel like 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:09.460 they was trying really hard. They had, you know, 00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:11.840 even if they didn't have a member of staff for 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.100 her all the time because she wasn't, I can't 00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:16.220 remember how many hours it was now, but it wasn't 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:19.460 all the time. But they would always try to accommodate 00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:21.679 for her. So they'd take her outside. And so I 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:23.820 always felt like they were trying and they'd 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:26.320 like done a little corner for her. They'd got 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.700 her a swing for outside as well. So I always 00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:31.360 felt like they were really trying. I think what 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.799 it comes down to is money. I really think that's 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:37.279 what it is. It's that there wasn't enough money 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:41.700 and they just couldn't do it. But they don't 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:45.580 know if it feels like sometimes that they want 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.440 you to make you, this might just be a parent 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.940 thing, but like they make you want to feel like 00:11:49.940 --> 00:11:53.100 everything's okay. So you don't ask, so you don't 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:55.879 want more. And yeah, you feel like you can't 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.440 ask for anything. Like what you're getting is 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.789 amazing. you yeah you can't ask for anything 00:12:02.789 --> 00:12:04.509 more than that i don't know if that makes sense 00:12:04.509 --> 00:12:07.049 yeah it does make it definitely makes sense that 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.450 the idea is well you're already getting so much 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:11.870 already you're already getting more than more 00:12:11.870 --> 00:12:15.090 than most there isn't anything else even if yeah 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:17.870 even if that baseline isn't meeting your child's 00:12:17.870 --> 00:12:19.750 needs which of course shouldn't be the case should 00:12:19.750 --> 00:12:22.169 it like every child should be able to access 00:12:22.169 --> 00:12:25.809 education and be included it sounds it sounds 00:12:25.809 --> 00:12:28.250 good to me that they were making reasonable adjustments 00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:31.799 and and yeah doing that to support Hallie and 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.700 being there. Did you feel at the time that they 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:36.679 wanted her there? Did you feel like they were 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:41.299 really trying to include her and involve her 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:45.639 in school as much as they could? Yeah, I definitely 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.379 think that they were. I know she had a few friends 00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:52.659 and things like that. It was actually quite strange 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:55.259 because even when I'd gone in for, when I'd gone 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:57.299 to watch my older daughter's sports day and I 00:12:57.299 --> 00:12:59.759 could see her in the outdoor area playing and 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.879 she did look so, when she was there, she looked, 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:06.879 I saw her, she looked happy and yeah, they would 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:09.860 do all sorts for her and it was just then when 00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:13.250 she was at home. and back and then in the mornings 00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:18.389 it was this extreme didn't want to go so and 00:13:18.389 --> 00:13:20.429 i know there was a lot of masking going on even 00:13:20.429 --> 00:13:23.350 though she wasn't a complete masker so she didn't 00:13:23.350 --> 00:13:25.629 always she would she would like sort of get upset 00:13:25.629 --> 00:13:28.210 and lay in the floor and refuse to do things 00:13:28.210 --> 00:13:30.330 and she would do all of that if she really didn't 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:32.269 want to do anything like pee i know at times 00:13:32.269 --> 00:13:35.169 was a real struggle so i know she would express 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:37.350 herself but there's also times where she would 00:13:37.350 --> 00:13:41.549 mask as well because even though she would have 00:13:41.549 --> 00:13:43.690 like her nappy and her pushchair and things that 00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:45.490 other children didn't have. As soon as we got 00:13:45.490 --> 00:13:47.570 into the school, she would literally want me 00:13:47.570 --> 00:13:49.730 to like, you know, the pushchair not to be in 00:13:49.730 --> 00:13:51.929 sight. So I knew there was things like that, 00:13:51.970 --> 00:13:54.570 that she was actually masking. So maybe it was 00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:56.549 that there was a lot of, in school, maybe there 00:13:56.549 --> 00:14:00.090 was more masking going on than what I know. And 00:14:00.090 --> 00:14:01.490 then that makes sense, doesn't it? That she'd 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:04.460 have found that exhausting. trying to suppress 00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:07.740 all of these things that are just you must have 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:11.340 just been absolutely exhausting for her. And 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:13.740 often transitions are really tricky too, you 00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:16.059 know, that transition between home and school, 00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:20.539 crossing those thresholds, the walk -in. You 00:14:20.539 --> 00:14:24.240 know, school can't be predictable all the time, 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:26.980 however much we try to be. We try to have a solid 00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:29.399 routine, we try to have visuals, but there are 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.210 things that we can't. foresee like people being 00:14:32.210 --> 00:14:36.450 absent or a special day or a non -uniform day 00:14:36.450 --> 00:14:40.129 that it happens and that bubbling up inside you 00:14:40.129 --> 00:14:42.450 must be really anxiety provoking not knowing 00:14:42.450 --> 00:14:45.269 what you were coming into if that is what was 00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:46.950 happening yeah like you say it's no reflection 00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:50.070 on the school necessarily it just isn't maybe 00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:53.409 the right environment for her and I think as 00:14:53.409 --> 00:14:55.809 well like the more I've learned about PDA she 00:14:55.809 --> 00:14:58.000 would have been there would have been so many 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.799 demands there that she would have been going 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:02.980 along with even though there were times like 00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:04.740 p i know there was certain things like i say 00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:07.740 that she just she she would not do and whether 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.240 that was more a sensory or something was more 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.159 triggering for her but there must have been so 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.590 many demands that she was going along with all 00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:17.950 day every day because she would I would pick 00:15:17.950 --> 00:15:20.769 her up from school and sometimes she would as 00:15:20.769 --> 00:15:22.990 soon as she saw me she would just burst into 00:15:22.990 --> 00:15:25.809 tears and she'd either just like sort of run 00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:27.909 over to me she'd put herself in the push chair 00:15:27.909 --> 00:15:30.450 at that point at the end of the day morning she 00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:31.970 wouldn't but end of the day she didn't put a 00:15:31.970 --> 00:15:34.309 hood over she don't want to see no one and then 00:15:34.309 --> 00:15:36.870 it could take me 20 minutes half an hour to get 00:15:36.870 --> 00:15:39.110 her to the car because then she might try and 00:15:39.110 --> 00:15:41.639 get out of the push chair So then at that point, 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:43.460 it was like I've got to like strap her in. But 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:45.139 then when it came to then I'm going to strap 00:15:45.139 --> 00:15:47.759 you in, then she wouldn't get in. And so it was 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.960 after school was just such a difficult time to 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:53.600 get her home. And then she would get home and 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.980 she wouldn't even even still a little bit now. 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.419 But it was a lot worse than like she wouldn't 00:15:59.419 --> 00:16:02.059 eat food with people and she would just completely 00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:04.340 isolate herself. And it would just be from the 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:06.080 moment of getting her home from school until. 00:16:06.930 --> 00:16:08.929 Whenever she went to bed, because she goes to 00:16:08.929 --> 00:16:11.129 bed quite late, it would just be meltdown after 00:16:11.129 --> 00:16:14.590 meltdown or isolation. Because she'd been holding 00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:18.730 it together all day, hadn't she? She'd been following 00:16:18.730 --> 00:16:21.269 the instructions and holding it together all 00:16:21.269 --> 00:16:23.110 day, all day, all day. And all of a sudden she's 00:16:23.110 --> 00:16:26.809 with her safe people, you, her family. She can 00:16:26.809 --> 00:16:29.509 go, ugh. But then she's got nothing where she 00:16:29.509 --> 00:16:32.330 can't follow any, she can't keep herself safe. 00:16:32.409 --> 00:16:35.230 She can't follow instructions or direction. It's 00:16:35.230 --> 00:16:37.850 too much. Can we talk about PDA, pathological 00:16:37.850 --> 00:16:42.669 demand avoidance? Because she has a PDA profile, 00:16:42.889 --> 00:16:46.470 doesn't she? And that impacts her and your life 00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:49.509 pretty much all the time, how you speak to her 00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:51.230 and what she does. So do you want to explain 00:16:51.230 --> 00:16:53.889 a little bit about how that looks day to day? 00:16:55.049 --> 00:16:58.230 So for Hallie, she hasn't got an official diagnosis 00:16:58.230 --> 00:17:00.710 of PDA because they actually don't diagnose it 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:03.610 in my area at all. However, she has got it written 00:17:03.610 --> 00:17:06.470 into her report from the paediatrician that she 00:17:06.470 --> 00:17:08.690 displays a PDA profile, but it just can't go 00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:11.369 in that little section where it says diagnosis. 00:17:11.690 --> 00:17:13.809 So yeah, just so people know that, because I 00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:17.700 know a lot of people ask me that question. I 00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:19.539 don't think there's many areas that diagnose 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:23.200 it officially as a standalone diagnosis. Yeah, 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:25.960 so for Hallie, obviously it started to be something 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.720 I was thinking about when she began school, really. 00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.220 She's always been, everything was in her own 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.130 way. All the times that we've had, like trying 00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:40.069 to make decisions on, you know, spoons and forks 00:17:40.069 --> 00:17:42.670 and cups and it could be anything and we'd have 00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:45.970 to go through. It's just, yeah, it was hard work. 00:17:46.109 --> 00:17:49.609 But then when she went to school, that was when 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:53.309 I found the behaviour started to spiral and things 00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:56.089 started to get progressively worse with the refusal 00:17:56.089 --> 00:17:59.269 to do anything. And especially as well, when 00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:02.880 she... began speaking more so in nursery she 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.240 had a few words mainly things like shapes or 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.880 numbers. I would say it was in reception age 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.000 of school where the school refusal started was 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.019 where she actually began to get most of her language 00:18:16.019 --> 00:18:19.240 and it was when she began expressing herself 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.400 with language that she actually became a lot 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.559 harder work even though she was hard work when 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.910 I didn't know what she wanted. It was harder 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:32.309 work in a sense that the aggression, the anger, 00:18:32.390 --> 00:18:35.650 she would then vocalise herself. Yeah, everything 00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:40.150 was a no. And it was just all the time. And so 00:18:40.150 --> 00:18:42.029 it could be anything from brushing teeth, putting 00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:46.529 socks on, shoes on. Absolutely anything you wanted 00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:50.190 her to do, it would be a flat out no, not doing 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:54.839 it. Like I say, that would kind of come in waves 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.440 quite a bit. So we'd have stages where she would 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.680 be a bit better. And then all of a sudden it 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.099 would be no to everything. And that's where we 00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:05.559 would have the prolonged periods of school absences. 00:19:06.490 --> 00:19:08.430 And it would be not going to school, not getting 00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:10.890 ready, not brushing my teeth. If you tried to 00:19:10.890 --> 00:19:13.769 get her ready. So there were times where I tried 00:19:13.769 --> 00:19:16.150 to get her ready against her will, like, you 00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:19.009 know, try to, you know, get a trouser and, you 00:19:19.009 --> 00:19:20.970 know, a tie even and put it on a leg and it would 00:19:20.970 --> 00:19:23.430 just be legs flying. And so it was like, that's 00:19:23.430 --> 00:19:27.910 definite. No, I can't do that. So, yeah, it was 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:29.670 at that point, I would say, probably in nurse 00:19:29.670 --> 00:19:32.269 receptionist that I started to look into PDA 00:19:32.269 --> 00:19:34.710 a bit more. I started to understand it better. 00:19:34.769 --> 00:19:38.039 And I was like. Yeah, this definitely seems like 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.380 Hallie. It was one of those moments where it 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:44.019 just made sense. It made sense. And when I took 00:19:44.019 --> 00:19:46.240 her to an OT assessment, she sort of confirmed 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.619 it for me as well and said, yeah, she definitely 00:19:48.619 --> 00:19:51.900 is demand avoidant. That's when I started applying 00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:53.660 some of the strategies and I actually found a 00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:55.640 lot of them worked. Whereas some of the strategies 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:59.299 for autism don't work with Hallie. So like rewards. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.359 Don't work with Halle. It does depend where she's 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.599 at, though. If she's in a good place, she might 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.319 like a reward. But if she's in that place of 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.960 not tolerating any demands, you can't do anything 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.799 like that. It will just send her into a spiral. 00:20:15.819 --> 00:20:17.700 I can't think what else I was saying about it. 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:21.160 You often share the strategies that you use for 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.279 PDA on your Instagram, don't you? Things that 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.140 you do now, now you're homeschooling to encourage 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:31.470 her to... participate to collaborate on different 00:20:31.470 --> 00:20:34.609 learning tasks you often involve characters that 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.930 she likes yeah do you want to explain a little 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:39.569 bit about that because some parents or teachers 00:20:39.569 --> 00:20:41.789 might find that really useful actually those 00:20:41.789 --> 00:20:44.789 strategies that you've discovered so i worked 00:20:44.789 --> 00:20:47.769 in a school as a children's counselor and so 00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:50.309 all of my training that i've sort of done prior 00:20:50.309 --> 00:20:54.529 to um home education has all been in sort of 00:20:54.529 --> 00:20:57.450 working with children and a what like a child 00:20:57.450 --> 00:20:59.849 -led approach and so they're the kind of things 00:20:59.849 --> 00:21:02.450 that I would do with characters because children 00:21:02.450 --> 00:21:04.930 find it really hard to express themselves being 00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:07.890 asked directly any child so I sort of applied 00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:11.950 those concepts and for what it's kind of me naturally 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:14.269 anyway I think it's just naturally how my personality 00:21:14.269 --> 00:21:17.529 is I always kind of follows people's leads and 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:20.869 and things like that so yeah I applied that to 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.900 teaching Hallie and used it with sort of learning 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:27.759 with what we tried phonics and that didn't go 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.259 so well and now we're doing the whole word approach 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:33.259 but so I apply it with those characters and get 00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:36.099 them involved so instead of asking Hallie directly 00:21:36.099 --> 00:21:40.299 Hallie how do you do this I might say Bluey because 00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:42.660 she always has Bluey so it's like Bluey what 00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:45.269 might this be Would you like to answer this? 00:21:45.309 --> 00:21:47.789 So I still use language that's quite open in 00:21:47.789 --> 00:21:51.109 that she can choose to reply as that character 00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.910 or she can choose not to. It's okay. But it won't 00:21:53.910 --> 00:21:56.349 be asking her directly. Yeah, she can't fail 00:21:56.349 --> 00:21:59.430 at that, can she? Because if it gets wrong or 00:21:59.430 --> 00:22:02.349 it isn't right or whatever, it's not her. It's 00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:05.089 Bluey. It takes that pressure away from her, 00:22:05.150 --> 00:22:08.650 doesn't it? That demand pressure. It's Bluey's 00:22:08.650 --> 00:22:11.690 turn or it's Spidey's turn. I know you often 00:22:11.690 --> 00:22:14.569 use. Yeah, Spidey. He hasn't been out for a while, 00:22:14.589 --> 00:22:16.410 actually, Spidey. It's Bluey and Bingo at the 00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:18.390 minute, but yeah, Spidey as well. Yeah, yeah. 00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:21.849 It makes sense though, doesn't it? If you don't 00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:23.549 want to get something wrong, if you're scared 00:22:23.549 --> 00:22:27.529 to, you know, lose or scared to whatever, you 00:22:27.529 --> 00:22:30.240 know, if that's really difficult for you. putting 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.720 it through another character or through a toy 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.980 or just i wonder if we could do this rather than 00:22:35.980 --> 00:22:38.839 can you it's really great strategies i see that 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.380 in your um on your account all the time and um 00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:44.319 you look like you have a lot of fun i'm sure 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.940 you share a lot of the good moments but it looks 00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:48.819 like she's doing really well with homeschool 00:22:48.819 --> 00:22:51.220 she looks really comfortable and happy in her 00:22:51.789 --> 00:22:54.369 space is that what you've noticed since doing 00:22:54.369 --> 00:22:57.549 homeschool instead of school yeah definitely 00:22:57.549 --> 00:23:00.710 when she first came out we had to sort of leave 00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:02.930 it quite a while before I did anything with her 00:23:02.930 --> 00:23:06.990 so I just sort of focused on sensory and just 00:23:06.990 --> 00:23:09.190 being happy doing all the things that she enjoyed 00:23:09.190 --> 00:23:11.829 sensory play I didn't do anything in terms of 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:14.490 actual learning I thought let's just wait until 00:23:14.490 --> 00:23:16.710 she's back to the Hallie we know and love like 00:23:16.710 --> 00:23:19.029 she's yeah because when when before she came 00:23:19.029 --> 00:23:21.680 out of school like you may have seen pictures 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:23.660 and videos when I look back and I can see it 00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:25.779 in her eyes like I can just see it all over that 00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:28.980 she just was she was so worn out and so yeah 00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:31.019 we thought let's wait till we've got her back 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:34.619 to to to being happy and then we'll start with 00:23:34.619 --> 00:23:36.500 trying some different strategies and things and 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:38.480 I tried lots of things and failed and it's like 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.380 nope that's not gonna work that's not gonna work 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:43.160 and she lets you know soon enough oh yeah definitely 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:45.599 yeah definitely and I think that's what's nice 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:47.599 as well because we have got that relationship 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.940 where she can she is free to express herself 00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.380 and you know I always say to both my girls you 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:55.380 know what it is okay to be angry and it's okay 00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:57.799 to be sad it's it's just what we do with it at 00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:59.759 that point you know we don't want to be breaking 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.339 things or we don't want to be throwing things 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:04.339 or hurting ourselves or other people it's what 00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:05.920 we then do with it and it's looking at those 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.319 strategies um actually feeling the feelings we've 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.059 got to feel it we've got to let that feeling 00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:14.420 out it can't stay trapped inside so I actually 00:24:14.420 --> 00:24:16.960 celebrate them for actually feeling their feelings 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.980 and when they do it in a way that's a healthy 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:21.000 way of expressing it's like wow that's amazing 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.720 so I tend to do that quite a lot with them so 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.180 yeah now we've got into a place where she is 00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:29.299 sort of fully out of burnout we still do have 00:24:29.299 --> 00:24:32.230 little tips I feel like we sometimes you know 00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:34.970 put a tiptoe back into it and and and things 00:24:34.970 --> 00:24:38.650 but overall she is so much happier she's so much 00:24:38.650 --> 00:24:42.549 happier and she just learns in her own way like 00:24:42.549 --> 00:24:46.509 even if i even if i say to her let's just have 00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:48.589 you know let's have an afternoon of doing you 00:24:48.589 --> 00:24:51.329 know some play and some sensory play some art 00:24:51.329 --> 00:24:53.789 or painting all the things she loves she might 00:24:53.789 --> 00:24:56.250 even still go over to the to the to the we've 00:24:56.250 --> 00:24:58.490 got a whiteboard and she absolutely loves that 00:24:58.490 --> 00:25:00.190 and again I think it's a sense of she can rub 00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:02.849 it out it's not set in stone so if it's wrong 00:25:02.849 --> 00:25:05.230 or she doesn't quite like it or she feels like 00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:07.130 it's wrong she can just get rid of it and it's 00:25:07.130 --> 00:25:09.170 gone so I think whiteboards are brilliant probably 00:25:09.170 --> 00:25:11.549 for PDA children but she'll go over to that board 00:25:11.549 --> 00:25:13.369 and she'll start writing things just without 00:25:13.369 --> 00:25:16.539 even I don't even need to ask So it's like I 00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:19.279 can see moments and I think, oh, that's a really 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.940 good moment to see if I can, you know, steady 00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:25.420 go in and ask a curious question of what she's 00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:28.859 doing. Engage the response first because. I'll 00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:31.000 know straight away if she's in the mood for it 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.880 or not, because it'll just be a facial expression. 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.859 You know, she could just turn and look at me 00:25:35.859 --> 00:25:37.880 and then it's like, yeah, OK, I'll go back to 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.720 doing this. So that's what I tend to do is gauge 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.279 the response, gauge the response. And then if 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:46.740 I think all clear, then I might go, oh, actually, 00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:48.680 let's see if I can ask some questions around 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.740 this and expand that little bit of learning just 00:25:51.740 --> 00:25:53.940 that little bit further. So she's learned something, 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:56.319 but in a way that she's not going to even realise 00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:59.819 that it's learning. yeah do you think that's 00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:02.299 why homeschooling works so well for her that 00:26:02.299 --> 00:26:05.440 it adds that freedom of flexibility like you 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.660 said the environment suit for her it's not rigid 00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:12.819 there's no demands it's on her time in her way 00:26:12.819 --> 00:26:16.119 in her safe space absolutely yeah definitely 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:19.700 because it was only the last week so Thursday 00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:23.160 and Friday um I didn't do any learning with her 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.059 whatsoever it was there was it was just all sensory 00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:29.220 all play and it was nice weather so he was in 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.740 the garden she was doing some drawing and you 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.900 know even in those moments she's still did a 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.859 little bit of writing because she likes, we've 00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:37.779 got a thing at the minute called new words. And 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:41.279 so she asks me, oh, is this a new word? And so 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.140 then I'll write it on the board and things. So 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.700 we've got a little thing going there. So even 00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:47.400 when we do make that kind of decision that she 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.940 is starting to express some burnout, she is starting 00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:54.160 to look tired and she's, you know, you can kind 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.579 of tell because she will stop with tolerating 00:26:57.579 --> 00:27:00.700 demands. She will start having meltdowns. She 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:03.410 won't tolerate touch and sensory. she kind of 00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:05.670 goes out of whack as well. So it's like when 00:27:05.670 --> 00:27:07.789 I start to notice those signs, I think, right, 00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:10.150 we'll pull back on anything educational at the 00:27:10.150 --> 00:27:12.710 moment and let's just do play -based things. 00:27:12.829 --> 00:27:15.089 And even in that, she still does a bit of learning, 00:27:15.109 --> 00:27:17.990 but just on her terms. I was going to say that. 00:27:18.069 --> 00:27:20.609 I think you'd be surprised coming into my classroom 00:27:20.609 --> 00:27:24.269 how that is exactly what it's like. I have lots 00:27:24.269 --> 00:27:28.710 of Hallies in my room and we do lots of... what 00:27:28.710 --> 00:27:30.849 you've just said and they learn best actually 00:27:30.849 --> 00:27:34.450 in those moments of sensory play and outside 00:27:34.450 --> 00:27:39.990 just playing no agenda no planning you know learning 00:27:39.990 --> 00:27:42.549 actually that's when we get our best communication 00:27:42.549 --> 00:27:44.569 it's when we get our best social interaction 00:27:44.569 --> 00:27:47.450 the demands are reduced they've got low anxiety 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:50.430 they're in control their needs are met so they're 00:27:50.430 --> 00:27:53.509 regulated we get the best stuff and i think you'll 00:27:53.509 --> 00:27:56.170 be surprised at how little learning we do in 00:27:56.170 --> 00:27:58.380 our room actually structured time i think probably 00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:01.559 per child they probably get maximum 20 minutes 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:05.700 a day of like actual focus like let's do the 00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:08.099 writing let's do the whatever the rest of the 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:12.599 time is child -led much more free flow so yeah 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.420 i think you're doing an incredible job it's exactly 00:28:14.420 --> 00:28:17.920 what is exactly what she needs clearly because 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.019 she's thriving her writing her speech everything 00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:25.650 is it's doing incredibly well Yeah, she really 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:27.930 surprised me. She really has surprised me because 00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:30.849 I just... When she first came out of school, 00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:32.930 she wouldn't even let me hold a book anywhere 00:28:32.930 --> 00:28:37.150 near her. Just real triggering. She would just 00:28:37.150 --> 00:28:40.490 throw it. It would be gone. She wouldn't allow 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:43.369 me to read to her. She never has allowed me to 00:28:43.369 --> 00:28:46.049 read to her, actually, even before school. Books 00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:49.049 have always just been something for her. For 00:28:49.049 --> 00:28:52.140 some reason, it's just... a no -go and I don't 00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:53.980 know if again if that's a PDA thing because I'm 00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:56.440 reading to her and she's not in control I don't 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:01.440 know right but yeah so and it would be if I tried 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.960 to do um even if I tried to do anything phonics 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.680 related it would be it would be an absolute no 00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:11.539 and yeah like now she's just she's just so much 00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:14.279 happier and if she accepts that she accepts it 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:17.970 more which is really nice Yeah, definitely. If 00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:21.049 there are any parents listening with school refusers 00:29:21.049 --> 00:29:24.869 at home that have been thinking about homeschooling 00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:28.029 for a while, what advice would you give them? 00:29:28.230 --> 00:29:31.230 So for me, it was a bit of a process. I felt 00:29:31.230 --> 00:29:33.730 like I had to go through sort of stages, which 00:29:33.730 --> 00:29:36.849 was to leave my job to begin with. And I waited 00:29:36.849 --> 00:29:40.490 until the time felt right. And then taking them 00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:42.990 out of school again, it was like I was I was 00:29:42.990 --> 00:29:47.829 waiting for the right time. or like a sign and 00:29:47.829 --> 00:29:51.289 now I look back I don't know why I just didn't 00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:54.730 do it when I first when I first thought about 00:29:54.730 --> 00:29:57.369 it and when it was first in my mind because homeschooling 00:29:57.369 --> 00:29:58.849 has been something that I actually originally 00:29:58.849 --> 00:30:01.329 wanted to do with Bonnie back when she was younger 00:30:01.329 --> 00:30:03.150 and I always thought I would because we had the 00:30:03.150 --> 00:30:05.390 lockdown didn't we when she was yeah of course 00:30:05.390 --> 00:30:08.390 in reception and I absolutely loved teaching 00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:10.650 her like I used I remember like people used to 00:30:10.650 --> 00:30:13.619 be really struggling and be like are they back 00:30:13.619 --> 00:30:16.640 at school yet and I'd be like I love it I absolutely 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:20.019 love it and we had such a great time so I always 00:30:20.019 --> 00:30:21.640 had it in my head then that I would love to be 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.279 I would love to homeschool and I'd love to do 00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:25.980 all of that because I actually really enjoy it 00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:29.119 and I see how much the kids benefit from it so 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.779 it was always there so I guess in terms of the 00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:36.779 process of that decision it was like I had already 00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:41.299 considered it prior and then I was, yeah, just 00:30:41.299 --> 00:30:43.940 waiting. I think I was just waiting for a sign, 00:30:44.059 --> 00:30:47.079 something to make me make the decision. But I 00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:50.700 wish now I'd just gone for it because at the 00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:53.960 end of the day, I know things might change at 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:56.680 the minute. So as we speak now, before this new 00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.480 bill comes in, you can just deregister your child. 00:31:01.869 --> 00:31:05.289 doesn't work out you can just re -register them 00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:07.970 it's no big deal like you can just go actually 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:10.509 I know for a child like Hallie it is difficult 00:31:10.509 --> 00:31:12.710 because obviously you have got your HCP and you 00:31:12.710 --> 00:31:14.950 do need to find the school and things like that 00:31:14.950 --> 00:31:18.289 but you can still go back there's kind of nothing 00:31:18.289 --> 00:31:21.390 to lose though yeah yeah you've not it's not 00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:23.210 like once you do register that's it you can't 00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:25.309 go back in a school setting again you can give 00:31:25.309 --> 00:31:28.309 it a try give it a try see if it works and if 00:31:28.309 --> 00:31:32.000 it doesn't look at those next steps but Yeah, 00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:34.380 for me, it's been the best thing that I've ever 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.160 done. And I don't want to sort of paint it as 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:39.859 this amazing, you know, because there are really 00:31:39.859 --> 00:31:42.200 difficult times. There are times where I think 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.619 I go through like a bit of a wave, like I feel 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:46.960 like, oh, my God, this is going amazing. And 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.160 it might only take one thing just to like, if 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:51.799 Halle gets burnt out or if she has a couple of 00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.240 bad days that have a knock on effect on me. And 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:57.279 then I start to feel a little bit burnt out. 00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:59.339 And then I feel like, oh, have I made the right 00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:01.680 decision? And it's like, I go. through this loop 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.240 and like for life. That's a good point, actually, 00:32:04.299 --> 00:32:07.299 because often regardless of school, ultimately 00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:09.680 it gives you respite too, doesn't it? From each 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.319 other. From Hallie, from you and you from Hallie 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:14.519 as well, you know, and just everything. It gives 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:18.640 a little bit of respite. Have you noticed missing 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.880 that at all? Just a break from each other or 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.180 actually you be managing that okay and it isn't. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.500 I do try to do things on my own still. So like 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:29.900 in the evenings, I just have a bit of me time 00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:32.759 is by just going out for a run. I really like 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:35.559 things like nature and I like meditation and 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:39.480 just being, being still. And so that's something 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:42.460 I do. That's my little escape is to just, when 00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:45.890 dad gets in from work. It might be that I just 00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:47.549 pop out for a little bit, have a walk, have a 00:32:47.549 --> 00:32:50.349 run and just, you know, sit on the bench somewhere 00:32:50.349 --> 00:32:52.829 and just listen to a bit of music and just sit. 00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:55.750 And I really, really enjoy that. I can imagine 00:32:55.750 --> 00:32:58.710 that's essential as well, so that you have the 00:32:58.710 --> 00:33:02.430 strength and energy and capacity to be the best, 00:33:02.529 --> 00:33:05.329 because you're a teacher and mum now, to be the 00:33:05.329 --> 00:33:07.869 best teacher and mum that you can be to your 00:33:07.869 --> 00:33:10.619 girls. Yeah, yeah. It's like I've got so many 00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:12.720 roles. I was just saying to Bonnie today, like, 00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:14.680 because she was asking me to get her something 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:16.839 and then make a dinner. And I was like, I said, 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.859 I feel like Miss Rabbit. I've literally got so 00:33:20.859 --> 00:33:23.900 many roles. Because that's something that I am 00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:25.900 really trying to work on at the minute is sort 00:33:25.900 --> 00:33:28.299 of life skills and independence. So getting the 00:33:28.299 --> 00:33:30.579 girls actually, you know, let's make your dinner. 00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:33.519 Let's all do it together. And so things like 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.980 that and then putting, you know, their rubbish 00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.960 away. And so it's, you know, all of this. That's 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.690 the best. about homeschool isn't it is that you 00:33:40.690 --> 00:33:43.170 have the ability to teach things that we never 00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:47.450 can we can never you know teach about hygiene 00:33:47.450 --> 00:33:51.089 and bath times and teeth brushing and hair washing 00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:54.329 and salons and cooking and this in in as much 00:33:54.329 --> 00:33:56.650 depth as you can gardening you know we can never 00:33:56.650 --> 00:33:58.549 do that just because we don't have the facilities 00:33:58.549 --> 00:34:02.210 and taking games as a family going on holiday 00:34:02.210 --> 00:34:04.349 you know all those really crucial things that 00:34:04.349 --> 00:34:08.119 families can do really important learning actually 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.219 probably one of some of the most important learning 00:34:10.219 --> 00:34:12.039 that they'll ever do is independence cooking 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:16.059 for themselves um you know spending money going 00:34:16.059 --> 00:34:18.840 shopping all of those kind of things yeah so 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.860 important you know far important than writing 00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:24.880 your name even i would argue for lots of children 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.489 is that independence and ability to look after 00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:31.630 themselves as best they can so yeah I think that's 00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:33.750 that's perfect isn't it that's a great way to 00:34:33.750 --> 00:34:35.789 start that's that's the best learning that they 00:34:35.789 --> 00:34:40.489 can do I think yeah definitely so yeah that yeah 00:34:40.489 --> 00:34:42.710 that is something that I've been working on them 00:34:42.710 --> 00:34:45.230 with and especially for Hallie because I think 00:34:45.230 --> 00:34:47.469 for Hallie she still does need quite a lot of 00:34:47.469 --> 00:34:52.150 things doing for her um yeah a lot of her care 00:34:52.150 --> 00:34:55.829 needs um are all still done by me so it's just 00:34:55.829 --> 00:34:57.969 even working on things like that as well like 00:34:57.969 --> 00:35:00.710 you know just washing her hands and you know 00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:04.130 tidying tidying up is a real one for her that's 00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:06.670 so difficult for her to do again I think it's 00:35:06.670 --> 00:35:09.300 a PDA thing yeah because it's that expectation 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:12.019 of tidying up. So what I tend to do is me and 00:35:12.019 --> 00:35:14.840 Bonnie do it and then we'll just see if she joins 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.900 in. And sometimes she does. And so I think it's 00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:19.539 just modelling at the minute for her that some 00:35:19.539 --> 00:35:21.460 of these things that she can do to help around 00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:23.760 the house and things and she might join and she 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.239 might not. But it's sometimes it's like picky 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.800 battles, you know, it's not worth asking sometimes. 00:35:30.099 --> 00:35:31.639 Because otherwise you've lost her for the day, 00:35:31.659 --> 00:35:35.050 haven't you? Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm 00:35:35.050 --> 00:35:38.550 going to finish off by saying your sensory room 00:35:38.550 --> 00:35:42.409 is incredible. No wonder your girls are so happy 00:35:42.409 --> 00:35:45.230 being at home. You've got this beautiful swing 00:35:45.230 --> 00:35:48.949 and light and you just have the most amazing 00:35:48.949 --> 00:35:53.929 resources. What are yours or the girls' go -to 00:35:53.929 --> 00:35:59.030 resources that you use often? I would definitely 00:35:59.030 --> 00:36:02.219 say the swing. The swing has got to be a favourite 00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:04.760 from both of them. Bonnie, I don't know if you've 00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.280 ever seen, she literally is like a monkey and 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.579 she just swings upside down. And yeah, so she 00:36:10.579 --> 00:36:14.099 absolutely loves the swing. I think because Bonnie 00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:18.219 is very energetic and bouncy and so she can get 00:36:18.219 --> 00:36:20.639 all her needs met through that swing. But equally 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.980 so can Hallie because while Hallie doesn't have 00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.519 the coordination skills to... do a lot of the 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:28.340 things that Bonnie can do. Even things like, 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.260 even in the hammock swing, just getting in it, 00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:32.340 like she needs help with all of those kind of 00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:34.139 things. But then we've got some different swing 00:36:34.139 --> 00:36:36.639 attachments that actually she can access and 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.900 she can sit in by herself and then, you know, 00:36:38.900 --> 00:36:41.340 slow swinging. Because something with Hallie 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:43.619 is she's always struggled with vestibular and 00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:45.780 swinging and spinning. It's always been a no 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:49.400 -go for her. So, you know, sometimes just helping 00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:53.199 her with to kind of organise that sense. um can 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.760 really help her sometimes so and another thing 00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.019 for her when she's feeling tired i think she 00:36:59.019 --> 00:37:01.239 just enjoys even if the swing's not moving i 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:03.219 don't know if it's just because it's just in 00:37:03.219 --> 00:37:05.099 the air i don't know she just finds a lot of 00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:07.539 comfort from it and then the bean bag as well 00:37:07.539 --> 00:37:09.780 is brilliant that we've got so we've got a bean 00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.119 bag from elephant living and it is just the best 00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.059 bean bag in the world It is just, it's amazing. 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.780 You can just like get in it and we've got the 00:37:17.780 --> 00:37:19.780 compression blanket over the top of it. So you 00:37:19.780 --> 00:37:22.239 can kind of sandwich in there with the compression. 00:37:23.179 --> 00:37:25.920 And yeah, that's another one of their favorites 00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:27.619 that they like to get in when they're feeling, 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.000 if they get overwhelmed, frustrated. Yeah, they 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.039 both always get in that one. So that's definitely 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:35.199 another favorite. trying to think if there's 00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.639 anything else in there really that I think they're 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:39.980 the main two really and obviously we've got the 00:37:39.980 --> 00:37:42.159 little trampoline but then we've got the trampoline 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.320 outside that they they're always going on as 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.980 well so I think I would be lost without the trampoline 00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:49.579 because it's like they can always access it and 00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:51.599 that's what I love about home education because 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.280 it is this free flow of actually if they need 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:56.420 to go and have a bounce they can just go and 00:37:56.420 --> 00:37:58.980 like Bonnie will say to me and like she'll be 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.210 doing something and she'll be like I think I'm 00:38:01.210 --> 00:38:02.510 just going to go for a quick bounce. Is that 00:38:02.510 --> 00:38:04.150 all right? And I'm like, yeah, go for it. And 00:38:04.150 --> 00:38:06.829 then she'll go. And yeah, so it's just free flowing 00:38:06.829 --> 00:38:08.269 all the time. She just goes and does what she 00:38:08.269 --> 00:38:10.170 wants and comes back. And I actually find she 00:38:10.170 --> 00:38:13.349 does more that way than actually sitting and 00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:15.389 expecting to sit down and do learning. And she 00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:18.230 walks around doing stuff. She'll be in the garden 00:38:18.230 --> 00:38:21.110 with a notebook, you know, and stuff. It's how 00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:23.969 she learns best, isn't it? Yeah. So it's just, 00:38:24.010 --> 00:38:25.829 yeah, I would definitely say, going back to your 00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:29.760 question, sorry, the swing. The trampoline and 00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.760 the beanbag are definitely our favourites, I 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.619 would say. Brilliant. Awesome. Thank you so much 00:38:35.619 --> 00:38:37.539 for joining me this evening, Nicola. I've loved 00:38:37.539 --> 00:38:40.880 learning a little bit about an insight into your 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.980 family. If there's anyone listening that isn't 00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:46.880 following you already, where can they find your 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.960 social media? So it is just happyhands with all 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.320 one word and then underscore Hallie. And that 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.469 is on all of the... platforms we do have a youtube 00:38:58.469 --> 00:39:01.570 and i would love to do some actual vlogs and 00:39:01.570 --> 00:39:03.610 like days in the life like some proper ones but 00:39:03.610 --> 00:39:06.050 it's just so hard isn't it finding the time you've 00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:09.289 already got so many hats off yeah that's it so 00:39:09.289 --> 00:39:11.730 maybe one day maybe one day we might go onto 00:39:11.730 --> 00:39:13.429 youtube and do a bit more on there but yeah we're 00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:17.519 on instagram facebook and tiktok Awesome. Thank 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:19.599 you so much. And I love following your account. 00:39:19.699 --> 00:39:24.260 It is such a joy to see you and the girls thriving. 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:27.460 It's, yeah, a real joy. Yeah. So thank you so 00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:29.360 much for sharing so honestly and beautifully 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:32.800 your lovely family. And thank you for being here. 00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:35.699 No, thank you very much for having me. Thanks.