WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.700 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.700 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.660 Hello everybody and welcome to another podcast. 00:00:30.980 --> 00:00:34.140 Today I am joined by Cassidy. Cassidy is a speech 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:36.340 and language pathologist and owner of Around 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:39.439 the Spectrum Therapy, a private practice specialising 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:41.979 in neurodiversity affirming care for children 00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:44.539 with complex communication needs. So you can 00:00:44.539 --> 00:00:47.200 see why I wanted to get her on the podcast. She 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.259 has experience in early intervention, school 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:52.060 -based therapy and private practice. Cassidy 00:00:52.060 --> 00:00:54.259 is passionate about supporting children through 00:00:54.259 --> 00:00:57.280 child -led, strength -based approaches. She has 00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:59.420 extensive experience working with Augmentive 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:02.299 Alternative Communication, or AAC as it's often 00:01:02.299 --> 00:01:04.439 known, and coaching families and professionals 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:06.959 on creating meaningful communication opportunities. 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.299 Through her online profile speech with Cassidy, 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.540 where I found her, she provides education, resources, 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:16.099 and training to help others implement affirming 00:01:16.099 --> 00:01:18.620 strategies that honour each child's unique... 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:22.299 Engaging the World. You can see after rereading 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:24.680 that why I wanted to have you on. I'm so excited 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.519 that you're here. Hello, Cassidy. Hello, thank 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.799 you for having me. I cannot wait to have you 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.719 on. This is my jam. I love speaking about this 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.799 stuff. And your account is full. Like every time 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:41.620 I see a post, I'm like, yes, exactly. So I have 00:01:41.620 --> 00:01:44.739 lots of parents and teaching assistants or paraprofessionals 00:01:44.739 --> 00:01:46.799 that listen to this. I have lots of mainstream 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.099 teachers that listen to this. They might not 00:01:49.099 --> 00:01:52.799 know what AAC is. So do you mind explaining to 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.780 us what you mean by AAC? It's a good place to 00:01:55.780 --> 00:01:58.719 start. Yes, of course. And I actually get this 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.200 comment a lot on posts that I make where people 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:03.540 are like, everybody uses acronyms and I don't 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:05.299 know what they mean. And I think sometimes it's 00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:08.639 easy as professionals to forget what it's like 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.020 to not really know any of this kind of stuff. 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.780 So AAC, as you said, stands for augmentative 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:17.719 and alternative communication. And I personally 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.710 feel, especially online. You kind of see it, 00:02:20.729 --> 00:02:22.789 and I'm guilty of this, of using that term to 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:25.530 mean a communication device. It sometimes gets 00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:27.710 switched out for communication device, but that's 00:02:27.710 --> 00:02:32.189 not really what AAC is. It's really all encompassing 00:02:32.189 --> 00:02:36.990 of anything outside of. verbal speech so from 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:41.129 even using some signs you know gestures all of 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:44.009 that is alternative you know to verbal speech 00:02:44.009 --> 00:02:47.270 using picture cards so some of that more low 00:02:47.270 --> 00:02:50.370 tech based stuff some mid -tech stuff that has 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:52.830 a little bit of voice output but isn't as complex 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:56.330 as an ipad communication based device and then 00:02:56.330 --> 00:02:58.330 all the way up through what most people know 00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:02.740 as aac is those high tech communication devices 00:03:02.740 --> 00:03:05.719 that people are using to communicate. And also 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:08.939 I think something to highlight with AAC and the 00:03:08.939 --> 00:03:12.259 definition of it is that augmentative and alternative. 00:03:12.460 --> 00:03:16.259 So it's not always just the alternative. It's 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:18.580 not, you know, okay, this child needs this to 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:20.240 communicate and that's the only way they're communicating. 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:22.259 A lot of times it is that augmentative. They 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:24.340 have some verbal speech, but are supplementing 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:27.159 it with any number of these, you know, alternative 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.080 methods. That's a great thing, actually. Do you 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:33.699 often use more than one with a person that you're 00:03:33.699 --> 00:03:37.120 working with? Yes, all the time. It's very rare 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.680 that a child, I can't even think of any kids 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:43.789 in my preschool that just use one. So it kind 00:03:43.789 --> 00:03:46.090 of just depends on the situation. You know, I 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:49.930 have families that the child has a communication 00:03:49.930 --> 00:03:52.689 device, but maybe they also have some pictures 00:03:52.689 --> 00:03:54.849 on the fridge of food that they like to eat. 00:03:54.889 --> 00:03:57.189 And that's pretty quick and easy. I really love 00:03:57.189 --> 00:03:59.189 using some of those buttons where you can record 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:01.229 a message in. So maybe they'll have one next 00:04:01.229 --> 00:04:04.330 to the door to go outside. And so they can kind 00:04:04.330 --> 00:04:06.530 of use a mix of whatever meets their needs in 00:04:06.530 --> 00:04:09.210 that moment. I often get the question, I don't 00:04:09.210 --> 00:04:11.349 know if you get this as well, don't they find 00:04:11.349 --> 00:04:14.969 that overwhelming? I always tell parents, I think 00:04:14.969 --> 00:04:17.949 we find it more overwhelming than the child does. 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:21.529 Yeah, I find the same. And same with like, I 00:04:21.529 --> 00:04:23.389 don't know how many symbols is too many symbols 00:04:23.389 --> 00:04:25.930 and how many photos is too many symbols, like 00:04:25.930 --> 00:04:28.910 photos. And I just think, imagine if they weren't 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:31.949 there, then that would be overwhelming. Is that 00:04:31.949 --> 00:04:34.839 kind of a similar? Yeah, and I think we never 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:38.019 think that when it comes to children who just 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:40.379 develop communication. Typically, we never think, 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:42.819 you know, oh, I'm using way too many words with 00:04:42.819 --> 00:04:45.079 them. So, you know, I think really switching 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:49.040 our mindset to this is also for input, not just 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:51.860 for output. So they might not use all of these 00:04:51.860 --> 00:04:54.439 words, but we are still giving them that input 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:57.839 of language. So it's important to have those 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:01.379 words. Absolutely. And I suppose maybe it comes 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:04.470 from. a fear of overwhelming them because maybe 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:07.569 these children find speech and demands and instructions 00:05:07.569 --> 00:05:10.610 quite overwhelming leading to dysregulation so 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:12.689 maybe they've seen that and then don't want to 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:17.620 do the same with AAC. However, going visual first 00:05:17.620 --> 00:05:20.939 may not have that same effect. Right, exactly. 00:05:21.100 --> 00:05:24.100 And I think it also depends on the approach that 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:27.480 is taken as well, too, with anything. So if it's 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.259 a very demanding approach, they may seem overwhelmed 00:05:30.259 --> 00:05:33.879 because they may just not be finding that connection 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:37.160 with communication with it. Yeah. So you mentioned 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.379 that it could be symbols. It could be photos. 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.600 It could be recordable sound buttons. It could 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:46.050 be iPads or equivalent. Is there any else I'm 00:05:46.050 --> 00:05:48.569 missing? A Makaton or a sign language you said? 00:05:49.170 --> 00:05:52.569 Yeah, just like any gestures. Yeah, there's a 00:05:52.569 --> 00:05:55.269 lot of mid -tech options. And I don't feel like 00:05:55.269 --> 00:05:58.189 those are used as frequently though. I mostly 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:00.889 use kind of those single message buttons, which 00:06:00.889 --> 00:06:03.230 you'll see in classrooms and stuff as well too. 00:06:03.449 --> 00:06:05.290 There's other things out there. They're just 00:06:05.290 --> 00:06:07.889 not as easily accessible. They actually tend 00:06:07.889 --> 00:06:10.889 to be kind of a high price range and they're 00:06:10.889 --> 00:06:12.930 not robust. So it's kind of, you know, unless 00:06:12.930 --> 00:06:14.709 like a school has them, it's not something of, 00:06:14.970 --> 00:06:17.269 a parent is easily going to access can we talk 00:06:17.269 --> 00:06:19.509 about that because these are things like especially 00:06:19.509 --> 00:06:21.290 if we're talking about communication devices 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:24.350 there's a huge cost to that I don't know in America 00:06:24.350 --> 00:06:26.589 sometimes it's through insurance is that right 00:06:26.589 --> 00:06:29.050 in the UK it's very much out of the parent's 00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:32.170 pocket or out of charity through charity and 00:06:32.170 --> 00:06:35.350 donations and sometimes it's through referrals 00:06:35.350 --> 00:06:38.430 through speech therapy but it's quite rare and 00:06:38.430 --> 00:06:41.589 it often takes years so it seems unfair to wait 00:06:41.589 --> 00:06:44.120 when you know that they're gonna be able to communicate 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.600 in that way so this is a clear barrier so if 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.160 somebody's listening and thinking I know I want 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.079 to do that I think my child would benefit from 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.560 it is there a good thing to implement straight 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.660 away that's a lot cheaper whilst you're waiting 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:59.779 there's definitely a huge area of need and I'm 00:06:59.779 --> 00:07:03.399 very blessed that where I am it's not as much 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:06.100 a barrier as I've heard other people talk about. 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:10.220 There is WeaveChat is a completely free AAC app. 00:07:10.540 --> 00:07:13.959 So if somebody does have access to, I believe 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.939 they're on Apple and Android products. So if 00:07:16.939 --> 00:07:19.459 somebody does already have access to a tablet, 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:23.600 downloading that app, it's still very robust 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.060 and can be customized and stuff. So that can 00:07:26.060 --> 00:07:28.829 be a good way just to kind of at least get something 00:07:28.829 --> 00:07:33.329 to the child. I'm also a huge advocate for low 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:36.170 -tech supports. And this, I think people also, 00:07:36.490 --> 00:07:38.290 you know, low -tech equals pecs. And a lot of 00:07:38.290 --> 00:07:40.829 people aren't doing pecs and they use the term 00:07:40.829 --> 00:07:44.930 pecs incorrectly. And it doesn't have to be that 00:07:44.930 --> 00:07:47.310 very strict, rigid protocol. We can implement 00:07:47.310 --> 00:07:50.529 a lot of low -tech supports that you just need 00:07:50.529 --> 00:07:53.470 access to a printer and maybe a laminator in 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:55.970 order to offer some of those supports. But those 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:59.220 can be really great for kids. Yeah. And I guess 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.600 it's, you're still teaching them that pointing 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:05.300 and touching is communication too. And that's 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.779 a great practice for when they do receive their 00:08:07.779 --> 00:08:10.579 device that, you know, they're kind of used to 00:08:10.579 --> 00:08:13.439 that navigation through communication, I suppose. 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:15.360 They've already started their journey before. 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:18.920 Exactly. You've paid for this hugely expensive 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:23.160 device. I guess there's a reason I have spoken 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.259 to the Because I wanted to understand, like, 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.399 why is it so expensive? Why is this huge barrier? 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.300 There's so much that goes into it. It's incredibly 00:08:31.300 --> 00:08:36.700 in -depth technology. And it is so great. And 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:39.600 it has to be quick. Because there can't be any 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.360 delay on when they've touched it. It has to have 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.639 lots of different voices. It has to, you know, 00:08:44.659 --> 00:08:46.679 so many different systems. They have to buy the 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:48.259 licensing program for the symbols. You know, 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.820 once you start going into it, then there's every 00:08:51.820 --> 00:08:54.190 reason why it is that expensive. We want it to 00:08:54.190 --> 00:08:56.370 be good. We want it to be robust, don't we? We 00:08:56.370 --> 00:08:59.279 want it to be updated. And a lot of these companies 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.960 also offer support outside of just, you know, 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:04.960 here's the device, but you know, they'll come 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.360 for in -person trainings or remote support. So 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.299 it's kind of like all of that is also encompassed 00:09:10.299 --> 00:09:12.580 in the price of it as well. Which is so important 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:15.340 because they say you give like giving someone 00:09:15.340 --> 00:09:16.720 a communication device is like giving someone 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.659 a piano and just expecting them to play it. That's 00:09:18.659 --> 00:09:21.000 like kind of a quote, isn't it? And it's so true. 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.460 If you just bought an iPad and had the app on 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:27.159 it, then the child isn't going to be any... better 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:29.960 necessarily at communicating than they were before. 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:33.659 So what kind of things do you do to support a 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:36.340 child with a new communication device or with 00:09:36.340 --> 00:09:40.679 a new AAC, I suppose? Well, I'm very thankful 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.440 that I work very closely with parents. So I think 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.919 sometimes this can be a little bit different 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.240 in the school -based setting. In some way, but 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.039 I just think training the people around the child 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:54.899 is much more important than trying to get the 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.960 child to use the device. I see a huge difference 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:02.399 in the progress with children communicating using 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:05.700 AAC when it's very obvious that the adults around 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:08.519 them are bought into it. Even if they're not 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.000 seeing maybe the progress that they're expecting 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.340 to be seeing, you know, right away, but when 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:15.360 they're really bought into it and are like, okay, 00:10:15.379 --> 00:10:17.019 like we're doing this, I'm all in, I'm going 00:10:17.019 --> 00:10:19.559 to learn about it. You know, making that mindset 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:22.200 shift of this might be something new, but I'm 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.120 going to learn with my child or with the child 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:25.940 that I'm working with. If it's in a school setting, 00:10:26.059 --> 00:10:29.720 that's where I really see the biggest leaps of 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:32.830 progress is when the whole team. is on board 00:10:32.830 --> 00:10:35.070 and everybody's on the same page and everybody's 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:37.710 willing to learn even if they have you know absolutely 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:40.129 no idea what they're doing so that's normally 00:10:40.129 --> 00:10:43.110 my focus originally is just how do we make this 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:45.950 accessible for everybody else you know yeah we 00:10:45.950 --> 00:10:47.470 want the child to use it and they're the focus 00:10:47.470 --> 00:10:50.669 but if if we don't focus on everybody else first 00:10:50.669 --> 00:10:52.649 the child's never going to use it most of the 00:10:52.649 --> 00:10:56.710 time yeah it's so true so many times I put the 00:10:56.710 --> 00:10:58.990 iPad in the school bag and send it home and I 00:10:58.990 --> 00:11:03.279 know it's not going to come out again you know 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.440 for whatever reason sometimes oh but I know what 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.379 they are asking for or they just help themselves 00:11:08.379 --> 00:11:10.840 and that's great like that's lovely we don't 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:13.379 want to restrict children so they have to ask 00:11:13.379 --> 00:11:16.700 for it of course but I want you to use it I'd 00:11:16.700 --> 00:11:19.179 love you to be modeling and using it you know 00:11:19.710 --> 00:11:21.669 That would bring me so much joy, even if the 00:11:21.669 --> 00:11:23.629 child never looked at it or touched it over the 00:11:23.629 --> 00:11:26.149 weekend. But if the adult, whatever adult it 00:11:26.149 --> 00:11:27.830 was, was talking to them about what dinner they're 00:11:27.830 --> 00:11:29.850 having or what they're watching and commenting. 00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:32.450 And that's what we mean by that, isn't it? It's 00:11:32.450 --> 00:11:35.549 just the adult just using it, just exploring 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.149 it, playing with it, having it out so that the 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:42.809 child notices it maybe and is interested and 00:11:42.809 --> 00:11:45.789 learns what it's even for, I suppose. Otherwise, 00:11:45.909 --> 00:11:48.049 how would they know that it's any different than 00:11:48.049 --> 00:11:51.580 any other? cause and effect toy and I like to 00:11:51.580 --> 00:11:54.759 set that expectation up right away when I am 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:57.700 starting with a family that you know I kind of 00:11:57.700 --> 00:12:00.259 always go for the most extreme you know your 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:02.320 child probably isn't going to touch this or maybe 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.879 they'll touch it and just touch a million buttons 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.399 right and so that way if the child does use it 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:09.139 in a way that they weren't expecting it's exciting 00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:12.080 but if they don't use it in that way That's kind 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.120 of what they were expecting. I really tell families, 00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:18.899 like, my goal is for you guys to learn this and 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:22.080 to not have it be a burden in your life or really 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.879 just to be a natural part of your life. Whatever 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.659 that looks like for you to start, you know, to 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.519 kind of decrease that overwhelm. But I find just 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.700 being upfront about those conversations makes 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:34.539 a huge difference because then families kind 00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:37.620 of know, like, OK, well, what I'm seeing is normal. 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.200 Yeah, and it is unusual for a child to take to 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:46.100 it well, straight away. Often they don't want 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:48.679 anything to do with it or they stim on it or 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.659 they, whatever, you know, whatever it is, want 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:54.460 to press every button to find out what it is, 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.000 whatever it is. It's very rare that a child would 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.000 be given a device and the first time they say, 00:12:59.139 --> 00:13:02.600 you know, isn't it funny? I want this. That would 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.799 be really unlikely. It would be amazing and so 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:10.090 exciting and awesome. but it is unlikely isn't 00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:12.690 it so it's setting setting parents up to yes 00:13:12.690 --> 00:13:14.490 they might not touch it or yes they might still 00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:16.389 want it then when they see those things they 00:13:16.389 --> 00:13:18.649 can be excited about those things knowing it's 00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:21.370 okay rather than you know oh god we spent all 00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:24.809 this money on devices and speech therapy and 00:13:24.809 --> 00:13:27.830 and uh and he's just playing with it as a toy 00:13:27.830 --> 00:13:30.950 you know that with without understanding that's 00:13:30.950 --> 00:13:32.769 part of the process that could become quite frustrating 00:13:32.769 --> 00:13:36.620 couldn't it yeah exactly I think it's a great 00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:41.740 idea to get them set up for that. How do you 00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:44.299 know what system to try? So we've said there's 00:13:44.299 --> 00:13:47.240 loads of AAC out there. We've got a minimally 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.279 speaking child. What do we try first? What's 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.019 a good thing to explore? I feel like this is 00:13:55.019 --> 00:14:01.070 a loaded question. As a speech therapist, I think 00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:03.529 because I've had so many years of experience 00:14:03.529 --> 00:14:07.190 with familiarizing myself with systems and getting 00:14:07.190 --> 00:14:10.730 systems for children that it's almost like my 00:14:10.730 --> 00:14:13.389 brain just like automatically processes all of 00:14:13.389 --> 00:14:15.230 this information and is like, yes, this is the 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:17.950 one that I'm going to try. And sometimes for 00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:20.850 me to be like, well, why, why am I thinking that 00:14:20.850 --> 00:14:23.470 way? And being able to explain that is another 00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:27.159 thing. And it really depends. Sometimes I do 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.580 like to look at, okay, is this child in a school 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.779 system? Are they in a classroom? Or is there 00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:34.919 any familiarity with any sort of program? That 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:36.740 shouldn't be the end -all be -all necessarily 00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:40.220 for choosing one. But if the entire classroom 00:14:40.220 --> 00:14:43.070 is using one program. Maybe it's worth trying 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:45.490 that program and seeing if they're successful. 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:47.269 And if they're not, you know, we can switch gears 00:14:47.269 --> 00:14:49.350 and try something else. But they might have better 00:14:49.350 --> 00:14:52.129 support if we're going with what everybody, you 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:54.490 know, in the classroom is used to. Definitely, 00:14:54.750 --> 00:14:57.509 I live in an area where there's a very high Spanish 00:14:57.509 --> 00:15:00.870 speaking population. So I'm always looking at 00:15:00.870 --> 00:15:04.809 the bilingual aspects of that. So TD Snap has 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:07.370 a really, really great bilingual component that 00:15:07.370 --> 00:15:10.110 is you can switch very quickly between languages. 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:14.659 That is usually high on my list of priorities. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.639 If I have a family that is bilingual, especially 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:19.960 a lot of the families here, one parent might 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.059 not even speak English at all. So if I want them 00:15:23.059 --> 00:15:25.299 to use it, it needs to be in the language that 00:15:25.299 --> 00:15:28.220 they are using at home, as well as the language 00:15:28.220 --> 00:15:31.940 that the child is going to be experiencing in 00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:34.879 school. Also look at some of the motor planning 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.700 things as well, too. Do I feel like this child 00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:40.940 will... benefit from a more motor planning based 00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:43.539 system, like LAMP, where it's always snapping 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.820 back to the homepage, that organization of it, 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.039 just based on some other characteristics that 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.740 that child has. But I typically like to consider 00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:56.259 a few different systems and say, okay, I think 00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:58.899 this one might be a good fit for this child and 00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:01.600 try it out. But there's been times when we're 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.419 going through this trial period and I'm like, 00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:07.440 it just doesn't feel like it's, I feel like there's 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.669 something else that we could do. try and so I 00:16:09.669 --> 00:16:12.590 think also knowing it's okay to switch gears 00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:14.950 and not be like well this is the one I decided 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:17.490 on you know that's why that period exists to 00:16:17.490 --> 00:16:19.649 try these out and be like okay well let's switch 00:16:19.649 --> 00:16:23.549 and see you know what system might work better 00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:25.750 and try a different one and see if we have a 00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:28.090 different outcome but sometimes honestly you 00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:30.590 don't know and I think as speech therapists it's 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.929 okay to feel like I don't really know what system 00:16:33.929 --> 00:16:37.610 is the best one and maybe I had this trial for 00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:39.309 four weeks with a child and they didn't touch 00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:42.690 it or look at it at all and i have no idea what 00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:44.129 to pick and at the end of the day you kind of 00:16:44.129 --> 00:16:45.809 just have to use your best clinical judgment 00:16:45.809 --> 00:16:48.129 and then say okay well once we get the device 00:16:48.129 --> 00:16:51.730 like i sometimes think there are kids where there 00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:53.830 is a program that this is the perfect fit for 00:16:53.830 --> 00:16:57.590 the child but most of the time the perfect fit 00:16:57.590 --> 00:16:59.830 is going to be the one that's implemented by 00:16:59.830 --> 00:17:04.210 everybody else so yeah Ultimately, if everyone 00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:06.609 else is using it, then that's going to be the 00:17:06.609 --> 00:17:08.269 benefit. There's no point having the perfect 00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:10.950 program and no one else is using it. Right. I 00:17:10.950 --> 00:17:13.849 think that makes perfect sense. I think that's 00:17:13.849 --> 00:17:17.369 really great advice. Yeah. What are they using 00:17:17.369 --> 00:17:19.789 already? What's around already? What are their 00:17:19.789 --> 00:17:22.150 adults around and competent with or can access? 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.319 Because ultimately, if that is not happening, 00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:26.900 the child isn't going to be able to access it 00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:29.200 either. And then yeah, motor planning is a really 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.319 great, yeah, I hadn't considered that. But of 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.200 course, if a child doesn't have the dexterity 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:38.380 to single out a single image on maybe a communication 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:40.980 device, or then maybe symbols on blocks is a 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.299 good idea, or objects is a good idea, or something 00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:47.240 like that. So yeah, it is individualized, isn't 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:51.289 it, ultimately? And yeah, trial and error. So 00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:53.710 have a hypothesis, but then put it to the test 00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:55.990 rather than deciding before you've even tried 00:17:55.990 --> 00:17:58.569 it. I think, yeah, that's why trials exist. Exactly 00:17:58.569 --> 00:18:02.309 what you said. Have you ever seen really fast 00:18:02.309 --> 00:18:06.789 progress with access to AAC? And it tends to 00:18:06.789 --> 00:18:10.279 happen with. People who should have had it much 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:13.940 younger. I used to work in a school system and 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:16.160 I mostly worked at the middle and high school 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.500 level. It was a specialized school just for autistic 00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:23.220 individuals. So I had kids up to the age of 21 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:27.599 and adults. Some of these individuals had not 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:33.019 been given access to high tech AAC. They may 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:37.319 have been 14, 15, 16 years old or even older. 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:40.180 And for some of those kids, sometimes it really 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:42.640 was as simple as just like, I'm just going to 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.680 put this in front of you and see what you do 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.480 with it. And I did have a couple instances where, 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:50.680 you know, pretty immediately those individuals 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:54.160 were putting full sentences together. Because 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.200 they'd been using symbols, books maybe, and they'd 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.059 been using communication books and they'd been 00:18:59.059 --> 00:19:01.849 using iPads all separately then. It kind of makes 00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:03.930 sense to them. And they were just older and had 00:19:03.930 --> 00:19:06.930 more exposure to language, you know, compared 00:19:06.930 --> 00:19:09.430 to maybe the two, three -year -old little ones 00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:12.710 that we have. So I have seen that as well, too. 00:19:12.890 --> 00:19:15.490 And I've had some kids where, you know, like 00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:18.910 you said, they are immediately touching it the 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:21.369 second that you put it in front of them. But 00:19:21.369 --> 00:19:23.289 maybe it's not in the way that we're, you know, 00:19:23.289 --> 00:19:26.849 expecting that to look like. And so it kind of 00:19:26.849 --> 00:19:28.970 just depends, I think, what that progress looks 00:19:28.970 --> 00:19:31.890 like. I'm having something at the moment where 00:19:31.890 --> 00:19:33.970 I've got people in my class who's been using 00:19:33.970 --> 00:19:36.450 it maybe for a few months. I'm using a communication 00:19:36.450 --> 00:19:38.809 device for about a few months. And he's really 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:42.109 great. If we model to him on a single page, he 00:19:42.109 --> 00:19:44.690 can navigate it and find it again and knows that 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:48.589 he's doing it to request and to comment on nouns. 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.549 So he'll find an animal or he'll ask for a squeeze, 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:54.829 for example. But he's really struggling to navigate 00:19:54.829 --> 00:19:57.549 between the folders. And we're finding that to 00:19:57.549 --> 00:20:01.190 be a barrier. now we can continue showing and 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:04.069 modeling through the folders but actually what 00:20:04.069 --> 00:20:06.630 we're kind of going to is we're doing that for 00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:08.630 him and then finding him the page that he wants 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:10.170 i don't know if that's right have you got any 00:20:10.170 --> 00:20:14.509 advice for me personally on on that two two pieces 00:20:14.509 --> 00:20:16.609 of advice that i normally give people for this 00:20:16.609 --> 00:20:18.930 kind of a caveat behind it is sometimes it depends 00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:21.750 on the system oh is the system like you have 00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:23.990 to go six folders deep to get something because 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:27.630 that is a lot for me as an adult. So sometimes 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:29.710 before even getting to what should I do, it's 00:20:29.710 --> 00:20:32.490 looking at the system. And that's kind of where 00:20:32.490 --> 00:20:34.490 it comes in, where when I'm talking with families, 00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:36.410 you know, and back to what you had first asked 00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:39.859 about, it's feeling overwhelming. The more icons 00:20:39.859 --> 00:20:42.940 we have on a screen, the less navigation it actually 00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:45.559 requires to go into things. So sometimes looking 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.740 at that and seeing like, okay, is this, could 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:49.619 we add more icons to each screen and then it 00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.220 requires less navigation. But two strategies 00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:55.160 that I typically use with kids when I feel like 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.200 they're ready to be navigating and we just can't 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:00.859 quite cross that bridge. One strategy I use is 00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:04.740 narrating out loud. So if I'm modeling the word 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:09.480 open, I might say actions, page two. open. So 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.460 I'm actually narrating exactly which icons that 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:16.140 I am pressing or for an animal, things, wild 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:19.880 animals, tiger, saying that out loud and really 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.220 slowing down while I'm doing it. And another 00:21:22.220 --> 00:21:24.759 strategy, I guess this kind of could fall under 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:28.220 a level of prompting. And I think being careful 00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:30.079 to know like, okay, this child is really trying 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.000 to express this. And this depends on the system, 00:21:33.099 --> 00:21:35.579 but if there's a search feature, a good search 00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:38.119 feature, so pro -local to go, really anything 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.839 outside touch chat, the touch chat feature often 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.799 does not lead you the easiest path to get to 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.319 a word. For the other programs, sometimes what 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.480 I've done with some kids is search the word. 00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:51.420 And then when you click on the word, it actually 00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:53.960 will highlight it and black everything else out. 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.759 And I will then encourage them, you know, to 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.380 be able to walk through that motor plan. And 00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:02.119 there's nothing else on the screen that can be 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.660 kind of throwing them off. But sometimes just 00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:07.779 getting over that initial difficulty with it. 00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:09.319 But those are the two strategies. That's really 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:11.759 great advice. That's really great advice. Yeah, 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.900 we use Proloquo. Using the search function is 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:18.660 a really great idea. So if you search it, and 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.259 then you click on, you know, which word, it'll 00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:23.200 highlight the motor plan pathway to get there. 00:22:23.299 --> 00:22:24.900 And I've had a lot of good success with that. 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.579 Okay, that's really great advice. Thank you. 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.059 Just using it as my personal questions. I love 00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:33.259 it. But how do you work alongside parents? You 00:22:33.259 --> 00:22:36.400 mentioned parents before. Are they in the sessions 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:40.200 with you? Do you work at the home? Did they come 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.640 into your practice? How does that look? And what 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:46.440 considerations need to be made there? So right 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:48.960 now with what I'm doing, so I'm full time in 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.859 my clinic. Prior to that, I was doing early intervention, 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:55.420 which here is birth to three. So I was going 00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:58.500 into homes and now I'm full time just in my office. 00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:01.279 So what it looks like currently is every child 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.380 that I see, the parents are bringing them to 00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:06.079 my office. And I always tell parents when they 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.380 first start with me, I don't have a waiting room. 00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:10.640 So I kind of say as like a thing, like, because 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.319 if you walk in, you're going to walk into a session. 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:14.640 So people are used to like a doctor's appointment 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.759 and fill out paperwork and wait. And I don't 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.380 have a waiting room. just because my office is 00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:22.660 small. There was really no other reason. It's 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:24.779 not like I purposely don't have a waiting room, 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.279 but it has created this really great environment 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.960 where parents are just in the office, you know? 00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:33.640 So it's not like they're in a separate room and 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.859 they have to make that decision of if they want 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:38.380 to join or not. Like they're just there. They 00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:40.599 have no choice but to be there. Because ultimately 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:42.839 you want them there. You want them to see because 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.700 otherwise it's completely unique and you could 00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:47.500 do some great work, but if it's not going to 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:49.130 be taken outside of the room, room it's kind 00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:52.109 of pointless isn't it exactly yeah and I think 00:23:52.109 --> 00:23:55.250 that came from doing that in -home stuff where 00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:57.690 the focus really is on parent coaching I wanted 00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:00.450 to bring that over to the older children that 00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:03.049 I work with so some parents I work with they 00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:04.789 might just you know sit in the chair the whole 00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:07.170 time and they're watching or listening some parents 00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:08.769 are right on the floor and it's kind of their 00:24:08.769 --> 00:24:12.269 prerogative of how the level of involvement that 00:24:12.269 --> 00:24:15.349 they want in that moment. And sometimes it switches, 00:24:15.470 --> 00:24:17.589 you know, moms coming in with babies, sometimes 00:24:17.589 --> 00:24:18.970 they're taking care of the babies, but they're 00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:20.849 hearing everything and they're seeing everything. 00:24:21.470 --> 00:24:25.890 So I like to as soon as possible, get them involved, 00:24:26.009 --> 00:24:27.890 even if they're not sitting on the floor with 00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:30.130 us. But I especially because I use that more 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:32.910 play based child led, I find myself explaining 00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:36.950 a lot out loud. This is why I'm doing this, you 00:24:36.950 --> 00:24:40.130 know. explaining the reasoning behind certain 00:24:40.130 --> 00:24:42.890 things and explaining the strategies that I'm 00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:45.069 using to them. And I found that when parents 00:24:45.069 --> 00:24:48.089 can really see it in action, it makes a lot more 00:24:48.089 --> 00:24:50.349 sense than just bringing the child back out to 00:24:50.349 --> 00:24:52.690 the waiting room and five minutes, hey, here's 00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:54.089 what we did. Here's what you can do at home. 00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:57.250 Most parents, I think, probably just walk out 00:24:57.250 --> 00:24:59.549 of that waiting room and what you said went through 00:24:59.549 --> 00:25:01.049 one ear and out the other. And it's not because 00:25:01.049 --> 00:25:02.890 they're bad parents. No, that's what I'm saying. 00:25:02.950 --> 00:25:04.670 It's not for want of trying. It's just, oh, you're 00:25:04.670 --> 00:25:06.329 the therapist. I don't want to get it wrong. 00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:08.730 I don't want to like... get messed up i don't 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:10.730 want to ruin it for them but of course that's 00:25:10.730 --> 00:25:14.549 not what it is it's um we're all we're all learning 00:25:14.549 --> 00:25:16.869 and we're all trialing and error and actually 00:25:16.869 --> 00:25:19.289 often the parents are the expert in their child 00:25:19.289 --> 00:25:21.730 they might not be a speech therapist they might 00:25:21.730 --> 00:25:24.170 not be a trained teacher but they are the expert 00:25:24.170 --> 00:25:25.890 in their child and they certainly know what motivates 00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:28.910 them and it's the parent yeah i've met the most 00:25:28.910 --> 00:25:32.390 incredible parents who didn't choose to have 00:25:32.390 --> 00:25:35.680 an irrelevant child but they my god do they do 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.960 a great job and yeah and it's almost like it's 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.359 showing them and telling them and giving them 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:46.200 confidence in to do it that you know this you 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.200 know you know how to do it um you do such a great 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:54.140 job can you do like could you try this or maybe 00:25:54.140 --> 00:25:56.180 they said maybe they suggest things maybe they're 00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:58.259 naturally doing things already I've met so many 00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:01.579 parents of guest art language processors who 00:26:01.579 --> 00:26:04.599 naturally will repeat back what they say and 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:07.319 I'll say has someone told you to do that no no 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.319 I just we just do it we just have like our own 00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:11.099 little conversation our own language like that's 00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:13.900 awesome that's so awesome you don't even know 00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:16.500 how awesome you are and I think I see that a 00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:18.359 lot in parents I'm sure you do too you just see 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.000 little looks little body language things like 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.079 they just totally read their child like so well 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.900 right it's awesome And I think it also helps 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:31.119 with carryover as well too, because the parents, 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.519 what I try to do is really break it down into. 00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:36.640 something very simple that they can do. I had 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.220 a family come to me one time that was seeing 00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:42.220 another speech therapist and the mom was wonderful 00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:44.839 and she was so overwhelmed and she was like, 00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:47.839 I wanted this AAC device and the speech therapist 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:49.880 wasn't super knowledgeable, but I was able to 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.140 fight for it and I got it. And she was like, 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:54.099 and now I don't know what to do. She was like, 00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:56.079 the speech therapist is just telling me, well, 00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:58.619 you just have to model all the time. And she 00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:00.720 was like, that's what we say. And she was like, 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:02.599 I don't even really know what that means. She 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:06.079 was. And she was just really struggling with, 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:08.119 you know, it almost became this all or nothing 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:10.900 approach. Like if I'm not doing it 24 seven, 00:27:11.059 --> 00:27:13.839 then it's not enough. So that also means that 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.200 if the child isn't taking to it, then that's 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.000 like on her because she hasn't been modeling 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.180 enough or because she hasn't been doing it right, 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:22.619 which is such a big responsibility when it might 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:24.380 not even be like you said before, like it might 00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:25.980 not even be the right system. It might not even 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:29.900 be the right, you know, communication tool. That 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:32.480 is such a huge weight to put on a parent who 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.299 already is, I'm sure, consumed by a hell of a 00:27:35.299 --> 00:27:38.180 lot of decision making in the day. Exactly. And 00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:40.019 I think when we can break it down, like, okay, 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.880 your child loves animals. Let's just show them 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.619 the animal sounds page. And that might not really 00:27:45.619 --> 00:27:48.480 have any importance on them being able to ask 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.900 you for things at home, but it brings that joy 00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:53.779 to it. So you don't feel overwhelmed. They don't 00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:56.309 feel overwhelmed. And you feel like. okay, I 00:27:56.309 --> 00:27:58.970 feel like I want to do this at home, not like 00:27:58.970 --> 00:28:01.730 I have to. And it's meaningful for the child 00:28:01.730 --> 00:28:03.829 as well. That is what the child would be saying 00:28:03.829 --> 00:28:06.130 if they could talk. They would be talking about 00:28:06.130 --> 00:28:10.349 animals. So let's talk about animals. We have 00:28:10.349 --> 00:28:14.069 a student in my class who is obsessed with logos, 00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:17.289 like loves logos and adverts. It's amazing. Like 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:20.490 they're all the American adverts. He knows all 00:28:20.490 --> 00:28:23.950 of them. Like it's awesome. I love it. He has 00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:27.210 an incredible brain. and when he got the AAC 00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:31.549 device for the first time he was typing the logo 00:28:31.549 --> 00:28:34.630 names or the brand names and hearing it back 00:28:34.630 --> 00:28:36.049 because sometimes they're said wrong and sometimes 00:28:36.049 --> 00:28:38.650 they're said right and he just thought it was 00:28:38.650 --> 00:28:41.029 the most awesome thing ever so I was like oh 00:28:41.029 --> 00:28:43.750 but he's not using it to communicate like he's 00:28:43.750 --> 00:28:45.490 not like he's using it but he's not using it 00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:47.140 to communicate I'm like That is what he would 00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:50.640 be saying if he had a word. Like, if you take 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.880 this device from him, you are putting your hand 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.759 over his mouth. Like, you would never do that 00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:57.400 to a child. This is genuinely what he would be 00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.019 saying if he had a voice. He would be talking 00:28:59.019 --> 00:29:00.680 about logos all the time. He would be talking 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.960 about brands all the time. He'd be recalling 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.180 the adverts all of the time because that is his 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:07.460 interest. That is what he likes to do. That is 00:29:07.460 --> 00:29:10.119 him talking. Like, he's not going to say, hello, 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.539 Jordan, how was your day? Would you like a drink? 00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:15.279 It's just not going to happen. Like, he's not 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.380 moving. motivated by that to offer him a page 00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:20.759 of logos maybe that we could talk about with 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.200 each other would be really motivating to him 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:25.180 but yeah just like animals or sometimes food 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:29.279 is the motivating or sometimes um theme parks 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.359 is the motivation you know right toys get taking 00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:34.640 photos of all their personal toys maybe is the 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.779 motivation you I think that's I think that's 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:39.420 really great and that's it's such a joy because 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:41.220 all of a sudden it doesn't feel overwhelming 00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.720 anymore all of a sudden the child is interested 00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:45.960 all of a sudden you're having a conversation 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.380 and you're you're relating to each other which 00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:51.380 ultimately is what communication is isn't it 00:29:51.380 --> 00:29:54.420 it's two -way it's it's talking about your interests 00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.519 it's engaging it's motivating all of those things 00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:01.019 Right, exactly. I have a video somewhere on my 00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:03.960 Instagram page of a little girl touching a button 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.680 where it said achoo to sneeze and I was pretending 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:09.660 to sneeze every time she touched it. And I just 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:11.519 felt like it was such a good example that sometimes 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.500 what we think communication should look like 00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:17.400 or AAC implementation should look like often 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.789 is not. you know, reality. And she was so excited 00:30:21.789 --> 00:30:23.529 and was touching it over and over again. And 00:30:23.529 --> 00:30:25.250 like you said, like getting that two way back 00:30:25.250 --> 00:30:28.130 and forth communication, and that will lead down 00:30:28.130 --> 00:30:31.029 the road to, you know, her asking for help and 00:30:31.029 --> 00:30:33.789 water and some of those things. But it starts 00:30:33.789 --> 00:30:37.150 with seeing that power of I do something and 00:30:37.150 --> 00:30:39.890 it causes this reaction that I really like that 00:30:39.890 --> 00:30:44.170 I want to continue to happen. so true it's talking 00:30:44.170 --> 00:30:47.430 about difficulty navigating folders one of my 00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:49.789 student was having that one of my other students 00:30:49.789 --> 00:30:52.549 but then all of a sudden could find stinky fart 00:30:52.549 --> 00:30:55.769 really quickly when we were using whoopee cushions 00:30:55.769 --> 00:30:58.289 and I thought my goodness you could do it but 00:30:58.289 --> 00:31:00.730 you just weren't motivated before but all of 00:31:00.730 --> 00:31:02.430 a sudden you get the whoopee cushion out and 00:31:02.430 --> 00:31:05.150 you can find stinky fart like two folders of 00:31:05.150 --> 00:31:08.579 stinky and fart like he was And he was doing 00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:10.180 it. And I was like, do you know what? That's 00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:13.319 on me. I just wasn't being fun enough. Exactly. 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:17.279 And ultimately, they are eight, nine, ten -year 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:20.500 -old children. They're going to burp some farts. 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.819 Maybe that's the way to go. It definitely made 00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:28.119 me smile. It was a really lovely moment. And 00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.299 I thought, yeah, of course, you're not motivated 00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.539 by whatever I'm trying to talk about. Shapes 00:31:32.539 --> 00:31:34.720 or colours or something stupid. Of course you're 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:36.519 going to want to talk about that. What is one 00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:38.980 thing? Or maybe a few things. Maybe that's mean. 00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:42.220 What is a few things you wish everyone who supports 00:31:42.220 --> 00:31:44.940 minimally speaking children knew? I think one 00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:47.660 of the biggest things is to know that these children 00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:52.279 are communicating. I've never met a child that 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.059 isn't communicating in some form or fashion. 00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:59.740 And I think sometimes we look at these kids that 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:02.039 aren't talking and we just think that they're 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:04.460 not communicating. But a lot of times they... 00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:07.660 have very rich communication skills that just 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:11.259 aren't verbal. And so really recognizing and 00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:13.819 honoring what their communication looks like 00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:16.900 before we dive in and say, well, this is what 00:32:16.900 --> 00:32:19.400 I want their communication to look like. Let's 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.279 see what their communication already looks like. 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.000 What kind of things would you be seeing, do you 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.920 think? I know what you mean by that, but I'm 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:30.319 just like, what might be happening? So when I 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.180 do evaluations, I use a system where I'm observing 00:32:34.180 --> 00:32:37.180 the child with myself or with a parent. So again, 00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:39.339 I get the parent involved right from the get 00:32:39.339 --> 00:32:42.400 -go and writing down everything the child is 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.759 doing. So I'm looking at any sort of gestures 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:49.500 beyond just the more sign or something like that. 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.500 Are they taking mom's hand and moving it to something? 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.000 Are they pushing a toy away? Are they getting 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.619 up physically and moving their body when you 00:32:58.619 --> 00:33:00.220 introduce them? introduce an activity. That's 00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:02.740 communication. You know, they just might not 00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:04.759 have the word no or be able to say anything else. 00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:07.259 Are they crying? Are they making vocalizations, 00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:10.640 you know, happy or sad in either direction? Are 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.079 they leaving the room? So looking at like that 00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.500 proxemics, you know, method of communication, 00:33:15.859 --> 00:33:17.339 you know, they want to go on the swing. So they're 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:19.720 just walking over to the swing or they want a 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:21.380 toy out of the cabinet. So they're going to walk 00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:24.160 over and try to, you know, open the cabinet, 00:33:24.259 --> 00:33:27.059 reach up for things. A lot of times I'm also 00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:30.480 looking at what are their eyes doing so if you 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.400 know they're looking at the shelf are they looking 00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.500 at one toy and just not quite sure like you know 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:37.960 it's too high i can't reach it but i don't have 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.799 any communication skills outside of just looking 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.720 at it to be like hey this is what i want but 00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.240 they're they're communicating they're showing 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.039 that you know hey i want this toy i'm staring 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.500 at it and you know how can we continue to develop 00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.180 that while also honoring the ways that they are 00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:55.019 using yeah i guess that also will lead you on 00:33:55.019 --> 00:33:58.299 to then choosing a system to try that kind of 00:33:58.299 --> 00:34:00.799 matches what they're already doing so maybe if 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:02.839 they're already using their pointing finger then 00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:06.119 it would be a really great idea to maybe put 00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:07.960 a communication board in place or if they're 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.840 walking over something and reaching maybe have 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.059 a sound button that they can then press once 00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:15.539 they get there so it's maybe looking at what 00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:18.800 already you're seeing and then fitting around 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:22.199 them rather than pulling them to us I really 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.420 like that and it's something that I think I do 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:28.530 naturally but I never do it intentionally so 00:34:28.530 --> 00:34:30.630 I think that might be something I start doing 00:34:30.630 --> 00:34:34.730 now is having some kind of audit for exactly 00:34:34.730 --> 00:34:37.010 that I think that's really important and to get 00:34:37.010 --> 00:34:39.510 the parents involved and all the paraprofessionals 00:34:39.510 --> 00:34:41.769 and the teaching assistants involved in that 00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:43.570 I think could really empower them as well to 00:34:43.570 --> 00:34:46.690 see that this child is communicating and and 00:34:46.690 --> 00:34:48.309 how are they doing that so then maybe we're a 00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:52.219 bit more in tune right I talk with parents a 00:34:52.219 --> 00:34:54.079 lot. I just had a conversation with a parent 00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.800 last week. And I think as professionals, paraprofessionals, 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.679 really anybody that works with some of these 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:03.960 minimally speaking kids, something so powerful 00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.039 that we don't do often enough is just observe 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.380 and just wait. And you can learn so much. And 00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:13.090 especially when kids aren't talking. It's very 00:35:13.090 --> 00:35:16.849 easy to want to fill that gap and you end up 00:35:16.849 --> 00:35:20.329 leading a lot more. And when I had this mom here 00:35:20.329 --> 00:35:23.530 and the child was playing, had walked over to 00:35:23.530 --> 00:35:26.769 a toy that we had used before, but we weren't 00:35:26.769 --> 00:35:29.090 quite sure what he wanted to do with it. I said, 00:35:29.130 --> 00:35:31.389 just take a moment. I said, I don't want you, 00:35:31.449 --> 00:35:34.329 I don't want either of us to say anything. Let's 00:35:34.329 --> 00:35:37.230 just wait a few minutes and see what he does. 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:40.579 play with it independently does he try to get 00:35:40.579 --> 00:35:44.599 us involved in his play you know what does his 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.000 play look like with this toy and what does he 00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.679 want to do with it versus you know us saying 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.340 oh here's how you play with this I said and then 00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:55.199 once we figure out what he's doing then we can 00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.239 join in and what he ended up wanting to do was 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.380 turn it's this little fan thing turn it on and 00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.460 off and normally it has tubes that connect to 00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:05.480 it for a ball to shoot through and he wasn't 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:06.960 interested in that part of it but that would 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.820 have been our first thing like oh let's go get 00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:10.739 the tubes and attach it onto here but because 00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:13.320 we step back and observe and then I could show 00:36:13.449 --> 00:36:16.369 on his device on oh you want it turned on and 00:36:16.369 --> 00:36:19.409 he picked up on that word so quickly whereas 00:36:19.409 --> 00:36:21.710 that would have never even been an opportunity 00:36:21.710 --> 00:36:24.730 for us to have if we were so quick to jump in 00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:28.630 yeah you're so right and I I am so guilty of 00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:31.929 that too and in my room for sure because you 00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:34.730 don't want them to fail do you I mean you've 00:36:34.730 --> 00:36:36.349 ultimately you've created an environment where 00:36:36.349 --> 00:36:38.349 they can't fail so I don't know why we're so 00:36:38.349 --> 00:36:40.469 scared of it but you don't want them to not succeed 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:43.440 But by doing that, we're failing them, aren't 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.619 we? Because we're not letting them show us what 00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:49.460 they can do or what they know or being led by 00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:52.440 them. And I know you're an advocate for this 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.860 too, of child -led play. And observation and 00:36:57.860 --> 00:37:01.519 waiting is a lot of that, isn't it? And it's 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.239 hard. It's hard, isn't it? It's hard. It's really 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.079 hard. Even like waiting 10 seconds processing 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.079 time is hard if you count it in your head. It 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.980 feels like a really long time to wait. But observing 00:37:11.980 --> 00:37:14.980 and waiting for a child could be minutes of just 00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:18.840 waiting and not helping them. For example, you 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:20.920 spoke a little bit about prompt dependency. I 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:22.880 know you didn't go into that, but try not to 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:27.480 have them be prompt dependent, you know, because 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.079 they might work it out or they might find a solution 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.760 that it might not be the solution that you would 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:33.780 do, but they might find a solution on their own. 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.599 And if you prompt too much, then they'll become 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:38.139 reliant on the prompt and then they'll never 00:37:38.139 --> 00:37:40.590 be able to maybe do it on their own. Things like 00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:44.030 zips are a classic example with their coat. You 00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:47.150 know, the first thing we do is zip you up without 00:37:47.150 --> 00:37:49.170 even giving them a chance to even, like, try 00:37:49.170 --> 00:37:51.630 to put the little thing in. Because we think 00:37:51.630 --> 00:37:53.269 they're going to fail at it. All that tells them 00:37:53.269 --> 00:37:57.070 is, you can't do this. You need me. and even 00:37:57.070 --> 00:37:58.929 if they do need you maybe they'll come and find 00:37:58.929 --> 00:38:00.409 you or maybe they'll find another adult or maybe 00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:02.610 they'll you know whatever but no I think that's 00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:05.829 really that's really great advice and someone 00:38:05.829 --> 00:38:07.389 I'm definitely going to take on board I kind 00:38:07.389 --> 00:38:11.650 of use these podcasts as CPD for myself um and 00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:12.929 that's going to be definitely be my homework 00:38:12.929 --> 00:38:16.409 for this week is to observe just to give myself 00:38:16.409 --> 00:38:22.210 the permission to sit back and observe and even 00:38:22.210 --> 00:38:26.059 if an adult comes in and questions it I can be 00:38:26.059 --> 00:38:30.559 confident enough to say I'm serving this I'm 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.599 serving his communication so that I can better 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:35.360 meet his needs a better understand that you know 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.980 you have that have that answer but um have that 00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:41.440 confidence just to sit back and wait is is really 00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:44.039 great advice yeah and you're so right with being 00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.880 able to explain it and I think that's where a 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.119 lot of speech therapists feel uncomfortable with 00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:51.679 that especially when they're working with parents 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:56.480 and You know, being able to say this is why I'm 00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.000 doing this and this is what I'm hoping the outcome 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:02.360 will be. And it makes sense to parents. You know, 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:04.440 every parent I've had that conversation with, 00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:06.639 they're like, yes, I just like never thought 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:08.380 about it that way or I didn't have to do that 00:39:08.380 --> 00:39:11.119 for my other children. But because this child 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:13.920 has more needs, more communication needs, they 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.190 actually tend to. observe less and wait less 00:39:17.190 --> 00:39:20.590 you know and as speech therapists we feel if 00:39:20.590 --> 00:39:22.730 every moment isn't productive then it's not a 00:39:22.730 --> 00:39:25.590 productive session and a lot of it I think just 00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:28.630 with AAC in general childbirth therapy anything 00:39:28.630 --> 00:39:31.989 is really shifting our mindsets. Yeah which I 00:39:31.989 --> 00:39:35.050 love and it can only improve the mental health 00:39:35.050 --> 00:39:38.730 and life for these young people that we have 00:39:38.730 --> 00:39:42.219 the pleasure of working with. Thank you so much, 00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.760 Cassidy. This is such an awesome chat. I hope 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:50.260 our listeners get a little flavor of what you 00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:52.420 are about. If they want to find out more, which 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:55.639 I'm sure they will, where can they find you? 00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:58.739 The best place is to follow me on Instagram. 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:02.099 Speech with Cassidy is kind of my professional 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:04.400 side of my Instagram. I have one for my practice 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:06.480 as well, too. But that's where I'm posting a 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.840 lot of AAC stuff. I recently dived into some 00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:11.420 more storytelling stuff, you know, more related 00:40:11.420 --> 00:40:14.139 to parents. And then I have a website as well, 00:40:14.139 --> 00:40:17.119 too, which is just SpeechWithCassidy .com. Did 00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.199 you say that you have a new product coming out 00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:23.289 or a new? Yes, I just came out with a high -tech 00:40:23.289 --> 00:40:27.989 AAC Made Simple ebook. So it's 140 pages of everything 00:40:27.989 --> 00:40:31.469 I wish I had when I was first starting out with 00:40:31.469 --> 00:40:36.230 AAC. So it really dives into the basics of AAC 00:40:36.230 --> 00:40:40.289 through principles for customization, implementation 00:40:40.289 --> 00:40:44.789 for AAC that feels... very practical to implement 00:40:44.789 --> 00:40:47.710 not again just like model all the time some of 00:40:47.710 --> 00:40:49.510 that kind of stuff but like actually what might 00:40:49.510 --> 00:40:51.789 this look like how can we fit this into this 00:40:51.789 --> 00:40:54.949 child's life troubleshooting handouts really 00:40:54.949 --> 00:40:58.570 all -encompassing AAC that's awesome can you 00:40:58.570 --> 00:41:00.010 send me the link and then I'll put it in the 00:41:00.010 --> 00:41:01.849 description to this below so that they can check 00:41:01.849 --> 00:41:04.550 that out that's awesome thank you so much for 00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:06.869 joining and I hope you have a good rest of your 00:41:06.869 --> 00:41:09.769 week thank you for having me you are so welcome 00:41:13.690 --> 00:41:14.150 Thank you.