Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today
I am joined by Jess who's a secondary school
SENCO and I was very lucky enough to be on her
podcast a couple of months ago and I couldn't
wait to have her back. We've definitely got more
to talk about haven't we Jess? I'm looking forward
to this podcast so much. We've got so much to
chat about. I know as professions we're both
teachers but I can imagine our roles are very
different so I'm looking forward to getting into
it. That's exactly what I wanted you on here.
had lots of speech and language therapists. We've
had lots of special education teachers, occupational
therapists, but we haven't had any mainstream
secondary school teachers. And the fact that
you're a SENCO as well, it is so aligned and
there are so many similarities. Let's get into
the differences. I know lots of people that listen
to my podcast have children of all ages that
they teach and all abilities. So yeah, I thought
it would be really important, but it is different.
So can you describe a little bit about... what
you do in the school what your role is and then
the level of need that you support as well of
course so I'm a secondary school science teacher
so that's who I trained what I trained as so
I went through the PGCE route so that was what
I became first and I teach teenagers GCSE and
A -levels which is has its different challenges
in itself, as you can imagine, dealing with the
teenage boys and teenage girls and all the hormones.
It's very fun. It's really interesting because
when I chat to primary school teachers, often
they say to me, oh my gosh, I could not deal
with that age group. But I'm the exact opposite.
I couldn't deal with little children. So I love
dealing with the teenagers and actually... I
teach 11 to 18 and I always prefer teaching the
16 to 18 year olds. I absolutely love it. That's
amazing. And then what about level of need as
well? Because some of our pupils in mainstream
primary schools aren't able to get a special
education place. So they are going to secondary
schools. Is that something you're seeing? Are
you seeing an increase in quite complex learning
needs? Yeah. So if we boil it down to what it
used to be like. So in the 2000s, 3 % of kids.
At secondary school, mainstream education were
classes being on the SEND register. In 2014,
that increased to 14%. And then in 2018, just
before COVID, it was around 15. And now it's
gone up even more to 18, 19%. So nearly 20 %
of our kids now are on the SCN register. In a
really short time. In such a short space of time,
which is... amazing because it means that we
are giving kids access to these diagnosis that
previously we never talked about and were never
assessed for like it's great um it's a shame
that when teachers for secondary school are going
through their training that we're not having
more training on special educational needs and
disabilities because we've got 20 of our kids
that fall in that bracket now yeah 20 of our
training should be on special education right
exactly And the biggest group within that is
children that are on social, emotional, mental
health. So that is actually the growing category.
So it's quite a grey area for a long time of
what had to be in place for a pupil with social,
emotional, mental health. It used to be that
a GP diagnosis of anxiety was enough. um to have
that on the school register and then we can provide
the support that they need actually now it's
only coming recently it has to be um done by
a ed psych or a psychologist so it's not enough
just to have a gp diagnosis anymore so yeah we're
seeing we're seeing massive growths in secondary
school with people on this end register um it's
gone up 20 nearly 20 percent in in 25 years does
the fact that it has to be done by an educational
psychologist mean longer waiting times now because
they're really hard to get hold of aren't they
because i know you need that for the autism diagnosis
and there's a two to four year wait for an autism
diagnosis is is that going to become an issue
do you think for seeing getting some emotional
support as well yeah yeah absolutely the word
anxiety say the way you talk about it in secondary
school they say that how we used to talk about
stress is how kids now talk about anxiety. And
there's a lot of education in schools at the
moment about teaching kids about feeling anxious
and being diagnosed with anxiety and different
things. So we're trying to educate the kids on,
you know, what those two different things are.
It's actually quite normal to feel anxious around
your exams and to feel a little bit stressed
and your heart racing. That's actually quite
a normal feeling because it means you care about
what's about to happen. But it's the point where...
Someone is diagnosed with anxiety that actually
hinders their results and hinders their ability
to sit exams. You're right. There's a massive
wait list. And it is about a two to three year
wait at the moment to see anyone. Unless, of
course, you have money to pay for it privately,
which most people don't. And that's the same
across all of the need, to be honest. So dyslexia
is the shortest wait at the moment, but it's
still about. two to three years ADHD and autism
we're looking at two to four years depending
on where you are in the country same with anxiety
two to four years really but if you pay for it
privately you know a dyslexia diagnosis is a
thousand pounds whereas ADHD and autism you're
looking at minimum two and a half grand so again
it's really difficult if you have the money then
great but unfortunately most people don't and
so for example If a child came to me and said,
you know, I think I may have ADHD, for example,
I'd love to go get assessed to then see what
exam access arrangement we can offer them. For
example, extra time or giving them access to
a smaller room or having a prompt. Those are
all great things. But we need that, you know,
paperwork to say that they have this need. So
they come to me in year 10. There's a three -year
waiting list. They've already gone through their
exams before they get the diagnosis. And obviously
they take their exams in year 11. There are things
schools can do, obviously, without the diagnosis
officially on paper, but it does make it a lot
harder for schools and it takes up a lot more
time and resources. Yeah, I was going to say,
what do you do in that instance? Do you pair
them together, provide that anyway? Surely there's
a limit, isn't there? Is it the financial budget?
tangible limit to how much a school can do without
that backing yeah it's it's yeah it is it's a
lot of a lot of the school issues though in the
uk do come down to budget unfortunately so it'd
be no surprise any teacher listening to this
hearing that but yeah it's it will come we can
do things uh it's just a lot easier um when you've
got a paper diagnosis the way it works is we
can't just award any child 25 % extra time because
there needs to be some sort of regulation throughout
the whole country about how this is done because
otherwise you can hand it out to anyone you just
be like oh that we think that people need it
so there has to be some sort of regulation yeah
we have to apply for it which is quite a surprise
to a lot of parents or or even teachers listening
you have to apply for it so we would say this
pupil needs um 25 % extra time and a laptop,
for example. And we have to collect evidence
for about six months. We have to do mini assessments
with them. We have to put forward their paperwork
and their diagnosis. We have to put notes that
this is what teachers also believe. We apply
for it to JCQ, the exam board, and they can say
yes or no based on the evidence we provide. That
is a really long process. yeah I had no idea
about this I had no idea is this what you spend
a lot of your time doing is compiling this evidence
yeah yeah so it takes it takes ages so then you
have to apply and they can reject it if it's
not sufficient enough it sounds a lot of work
and it is but I completely understand why that
process has to be in place Because it needs to
be a fair system. Exam access arrangements are
fantastic because it's trying to equal out the
playing field as much as it can. Like it's there
for a good reason. So they need to have some
sort of control over how they're doing it. Yeah,
because otherwise some crooked schools would
suggest that lots would have their 25%. Well,
then that takes away your actual 25%, doesn't
it? Because that's not an equal playing field.
That's equality, not equity. Exactly. Yeah. And
you know. In a world where, unfortunately, results
are perceived as the most important thing to
a school, because parents will decide a lot about
where they send their kids based on what results
are on their website, that sort of thing can
and would happen. So it's absolutely needed.
The hardest exam access arrangement to get and
apply for is 25 % extra time, regardless of what
your profile is. everyone would benefit from
25 extra time like everyone would regardless
to whether they had a diagnosis not everyone
would benefit so it's actually the hardest one
to get but it's obviously the one that most people
want as well is it the one that has the most
impact as well for for all people that need it
it really depends you know we thought you could
have pupils that just need a need a prompt need
a refocus they they they don't struggle with
their handwriting speed or timing or recalling
information they just have these moments where
they zone out so all they need is that one person
to be in the room and all you do is tap the desk
and they're like sorry yeah back on it miss don't
worry they really benefit from that so it really
depends the most um the one that's becoming really
popular which actually you guys that work in
primary will obviously know about is loops so
previously obviously teenagers being teenagers
didn't want to wear anything in their ears wasn't
cool you know you're at that age where you start
comparing yourself to other people like it's
actually a really natural process they become
very comparative so wearing these things in your
ears was not cool but then the apple i ear pods
air pods air pods came out so then it became
cool to have things in your ears now it's actually
becoming a cool thing apparently this is what
the kids are telling me a cool thing to have
loops in so they're like ear defenders right
yeah so loops it and mini ear defenders they
look really cool they just sit in your ears you
can get different colors so previously I had
Senkos have had such a problem with getting kids
to wear ear defenders when they become overstimulated
especially actually in exams when people hyper
focus on other people writing All that little
noise of the exam invigilator, you know, writing
down something. That can be a massive distraction
for some people, which makes sense. His room
is like silent apart from little tiny squeaks
and noises. And so getting pupils to wear ear
defenders was not cool. You know, they didn't
want to sit there. They didn't want to look different.
They're at that age. They're 16 years old. You
know, probably the person that they're dating
is across the room. It's a whole thing with them.
So, but now loops are really cool. So you can
suggest loops now and pupils really want to wear
them. Do you need permission for that or is that
something? No, you don't have to apply for loops,
which is great because it makes the process so
much easier to apply for. You don't have to apply
for it. It got me thinking about some of the
biggest challenges that SENCOs face is that society...
And kids being teenagers, you know, they don't
want to be different. They are at that age where
they've come out of primary school and, you know,
they start getting their hormones and they're
growing up and, you know, they start dating other
people and they become so worried about what
they appear like that, you know, these little
strategies that came into place. In primary school,
you know, using their fidget toys, you know,
having the elastic bands under the table, those
sorts of things, they actually stop using completely
just because they don't want to be compared.
It just got me thinking, now we've come over
this social barrier that actually these loops
are now a cool thing to wear. A lot of people
that do come out, a lot of pupils that do come
out of primary school when they'd use their fidget
toys and they'd have their elastic bands and
things that they became confident using actually
was really beneficial to them. just that no it's
it they won't you and obviously senkos will chat
to them say you know you used to really benefit
from this it'd be great and they're like absolutely
not missed no not using it no you find not they
do other things though like chew their sleeves
or fill with pens two pens like what kind of
things are you seeing that show that tells you
this young person needs these tools there's little
tells like that like the chewing of the um the
sleeve is one or picking of their nails is one
but actually in the teenage years it's more acting
out because it builds up yeah it builds up because
they're not having that release during the day
it builds up and then it comes out as behavior
which is obviously can lead to things like removing
from the classroom and then they're affecting
their learning and that's actually the start
of the spiral so It's really hard as a Senko
to have those conversations with the kids when
they're at that stage where the most important
thing to them is how they look in school, you
know, what their peers and their friends think
about them. That's the most important thing to
a teenager at that point. It's so hard for Senkos
because you just want to say to them, let's do
it, it's going to help you. I used to do it or
I know this isn't the coolest thing, but, you
know, and that is. probably the biggest challenge
of working with teenagers so with the loops now
they're cool we don't have any problems with
them but it's interesting how it's these society
norms that we if I could if I could just click
my fingers and think right if I could just make
fidget toys cool I would because it would solve
so many so many challenges that we have as Senkos
but also help the kids so much because they're
so worried about what they look like as teenagers
yeah so I suppose the difference with loops was
that it was seen as cool because they might have
seen influencers or celebrities wearing them
they're expensive they're a high class like high
desired item um they're seen as being fashionable
just like certain trainers are just like certain
brands and designs are So maybe the sensory toy
business is missing a trick here. We need to
be like getting the celebrities to be wearing
big ear defenders and like using some fidget
toys and then maybe, yeah. If they're on TikTok,
the kids will wear them, buy them. It's so funny.
Any of these influencer TikTok dancers need to
get on the fidget toys because it makes my life
so much easier. That's amazing. And that's so
interesting as well because we actually have
the opposite problem in primary school. They
are very much seen as... toys rather than resources
so if a child sees a peer fiddling or twiddling
with a fidget or whatever they will want it and
then the teacher's in this weird space where
they want to be affirming to their needs you
know maybe they do need it who am i to say they
don't need it To having 33 kids in the class
that half of them are getting something out of
it, or actually technically it'll be 25 % are
getting something out of it. And 75 % are completely
distracted because they don't actually need it
in the first place. So it's so different, isn't
it? Yeah, no, that's the complete opposite of
my problem. I remember being that age though.
I remember being in those teenage years and you
just live in your bubble and all you cared about
was what was happening after school. It matters
so much. I do feel like secondary school is really
crucial for teaching the important stuff. It
really is the academic stuff. But I think completely
equal with that is learning about how to be in
a social dynamic, how to make friends, how to...
you'll form your identity how to form positive
relationships and to break negative relationships
you're learning so much important stuff that
will also benefit you in adulthood too and it's
it's when those two things are trying to be together
I mean secondary school is an absolute minefield
isn't it you've got hormones as well you've got
oh my goodness yeah yeah your job is not for
the weak -hearted for sure it is I mean I I do
love it I used to not be a teacher and then I
came into teaching and I do love it and I'm glad
I chose secondary is it is a crazy world to work
in it's um it's interesting because I think I
see these I mean I see these on Instagram all
the time when you talked about your classroom
on my podcast um a few months ago I we still
teaching with kids set in rows We still teach
with kids having one exercise book for the whole
class. We still teach with, you know, hands up.
And I see it on Instagram all the time where
it's, you know, the, how they used to train,
sorry, how they used to school back in the 60s
and 70s. It's exactly the same as what we do
now. Even since I was at school, school has got
so much harder. So much harder for kids. The
exams that they sit and the intensity at which
they sit them has got so much worse. So when
did I sit my GCSEs? 2007? And my science exam
was a multiple choice test. Yeah. Now it's done.
It was 25 minutes. Now it's an hour and 15. And
that's just one subject. And these kids are sitting
11. Wow. Intensity at which they work. And they,
you know, they come in, they sit at their desk,
they listen to the teacher, they engage in whatever
activity the teacher's set, but it will be at
the desk, most likely, majority of the time anyway,
will be at the desk. And, you know, hands up.
write your notes move on to the next lesson unless
you're doing drama of course but you know english
math science science you can do some practicals
definitely but the curriculum is so heavy that
you do have to do quite a lot of theory work
what is the benefit of that because as a country
we want better results and if they feel like
they're going to get better results doing more
practical keeping kids engaged then why are they
going the opposite of that do you know Can you
answer? I don't know. Maybe you can't even answer
that question. No, because there's such a breakdown
in the understanding. I think, you know, all
the people in charge of, I mean, who's the education
secretary? It changes so often. Are they a teacher?
Probably not. No, never. They're a businessman.
Yeah. I don't even follow politics because it
drives me insane. But I can't imagine they're
ever a teacher or someone that stepped into a
mainstream 2 ,000 kids secondary educational
school. I doubt that they're that person. They
could be an apologies if I'm wrong. I don't think
you're wrong. I just, it's teachers are under
so much stress. Like when I think of the science
curriculum and what I have to teach kids and
it's just a memory game and a knowledge application
game and it's passing an exam and it's just -
We support some people. Some people learn that
way. Some people are very like book -led people.
They can retain information. They can regurgitate
information and they remember it. Does that make
them standing citizens? And I don't think that's
another question, but they can get through their
exam. But for so many children, whether they've
got a diagnosis or not, that would feel like
an impossible task. I was one of them. I am an
incredibly intelligent person. I have a six -figure
business. I am on it. But I really, really just
scraped a C's in my GCSE. And I have only got
a degree because I chose acting. which was all
practical, no essay writing. And because it didn't
work for me. But as an adult, I found success
and I feel like children should have the opportunity
too. And I feel like because the school system
is so built around one way of learning, it's
putting people off from further education and
any kind of academia or any kind of like teaching,
for example, like any kind of career in a way.
because they are so tired of feeling stupid,
honestly. That's what it comes down to. Yeah,
no, and it is putting people off further education,
but then we also live in a society where a degree
is always expected now. Yeah. So that really
conflicts itself. Yeah. Because you're setting
up an education system which favours a very small
percentage of people, and then you're saying,
well, you need a degree. And if you don't have
a degree these days, people are like... okay
you don't get an interview it's and these jobs
so I can't remember which one in a bank so my
mum used to work in a bank and she had one O
level now you need to agree to have that job
wow and that was we're talking what 30 years
ago she was incredible at her job incredible
at her job yeah incredible and it just it just
frustrates me because the conversations I have
to have with kids What do you want to do in the
future? You know, they're choosing their GCSEs.
They're choosing their A -levels. Choosing your
A -levels determines what universities you're
going to apply for. You're talking to kids about
what they want to do in the future. Every single
one of them expects them. They have to get a
degree. Like, they have to. Like, there's no
alternative. And if you do anything else, then
it's a failure. But university was, again, was
created for a very small, very academic group
of people, you know? You sit in a lecture theatre
for two hours and listen to someone and take
notes? How many people could actually concentrate
for that long? And it's self -motivated as well,
isn't it? Yeah, regardless of your profile. God,
that's a long time to sit there. So again, not
everyone was meant to go to university. It was
not meant to be a thing where everyone was meant
to get a degree because not everyone's on that
level. The world wouldn't turn. Like we knew
COVID was a perfect example. Everybody who had
that kind of academic job was out of work. Who
did we actually need? Or I suppose apart from
nurses, bless them. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, who
did we actually need? We needed on the ground
skilled workers that are incredible, that have
such great intelligence. It's just not academic
intelligence. They are practical. problem solvers
that are really hardworking and deserve so much
more than often they get but they that's brilliant
minds too so often I don't know if they still
do this actually in my secondary school um the
children or the teenagers that may not get or
equivalent to cgcse I don't know what it's called
now it's all numbers now I think apprenticeships
like plumbing electricians and that was kind
of seen as a great alternative But I don't know
if those apprenticeships even exist anymore.
How do you support the children that you know
won't go to university, may not even go and do
A -levels? What is the option for those brilliant
brains to get into work? Firstly, with these
beautiful, amazing brains, that we need to find
the right path for them. The first thing that
schools need to get right is... framing that
conversation because you can't frame it as I
know you're not going to get into university
so let's look at other things that's the first
thing because it does happen it needs to be the
schools need to make sure it's framed well to
celebrate it celebrate it yeah and it's such
a big change because you know I think society
like I said earlier just expects degrees as a
minimum so I think naturally the way people phrase
things are university first everything else second
so it is a complete culture shift in a school
there are some incredible apprenticeships now
like so much more than where they were 20 years
ago and I think the narrative is changing which
is really positive but for example where I live
in the Midlands the most competitive apprenticeships
are the ones with Aston Martin and Jaguar Land
Rover so they're the most popular ones in my
area thousands of kids apply and it's incredible
because on these apprenticeships these pupils
can join at 16 or 18 I think it's 18 now actually
I think they raised it um they can join at 18
and they get straight into work you know start
earning money straight away as well which is
great um and they get to shoot like try out loads
of different practical parts of the business
so you know obviously Aston Martin is a luxury
car so they could be trying out spraying paint
is one um thing that they try and they basically
just go through the different elements of the
business it's all practical based and it's so
progression they're like they can progress through
their career and they could be a top top salesman
or the top mechanic and I'm probably earning
maybe more than the people that have a degree
that end up as teachers yeah Everyone I know
that's gone one of these incredible apprenticeships
has completely thrived because they found an
environment that totally works for them, like
completely hands -on, completely practical, and
they've just absolutely thrived and been super
successful. Whatever your measure of success
is, you know, everyone's is different. These
people that I know have done it have been financially
successful as well as really happy. Way happier
than they were in school when they were putting
their hand up to answer a question on the board
again. Like so much happier. So there are so
many more options now. Another great one for
a lot of pupils with a diagnosis is agricultural.
So a lot of them will be like working on the
farms and things like that, which again is perfect.
just being out in nature and like being hands
-on and open fields, like all the weathers, like
people just love getting stuck in with that sort
of thing. So agricultural colleges is great as
well. So crucial to our whole society. Yeah,
exactly. And again, it's become really popular
because of Clarkson's Farm. Kids are so influenced
by social media, TV. So Clarkson's Farm has obviously
been super popular since COVID and it's all farmers.
in schools now are like the cool ones especially
the ones hilarious that Jeremy Clarkson of all
people is making farming cool like that is actually
so funny to me we had a we had a few Jeremy Clarkson's
actually for world book day which is amazing
yeah that's amazing they were like he does have
a book I was like okay yeah yeah amazing The
converse of all of this, of course, is that actually,
and I was this pupil at school, you have kids
that are really academic, but have a diagnosis
as well. So I would consider myself someone that
is academic. I was diagnosed with dyslexia very
late in life. So I was 20, 20. Yeah, 20 when
I got home. You left school. You left college.
Yeah, I had done my GCSEs. I went to college.
I did A -levels and then I went to university
and I went to the University of Bath and I was
so, so happy to get into that university. I kind
of got through education thinking I definitely
struggle more than my friends. I definitely have
to try harder. I couldn't really know why. I
just thought and what I said to myself for years
was they're just, I think they're just smarter
than me. I think that's the word I use. They're
just smarter than me. I just have to try harder.
And because... no none of this was ever a conversation
when we we were young um I was just that's what
my parents said you know just just try a bit
harder like it sucks but you know you just gotta
try a bit more and then it got to um I did statistics
as part of my degree and this I failed the statistics
exam I got four percent it's awful I was like
I had to had a list of numbers and then a computer
and I had to run some stats and some guy one
of the lecturers looked at my work and I had
basically flipped the last numbers round and
everything which is like classic text dyslexia
and and yeah he he was like you should you should
have a look at whether you're dyslexic and I
knew no one that was dyslexic didn't even really
know what it was heard of it what do you think
like well like but I can read I've gotten this
far like surely I'm not as well a little bit
yeah because to get To get that far without anyone
picking it up and to get that far with, yeah.
And to get, obviously I was at, I was third year
university as well. So I got through quite far,
but you reach a, you do reach a threshold where
your methods, so I developed my own methods of
self -coping, disguised by I'll just try harder.
I developed my own methods of coping with it
and adapting and just trying to pass this. game
that i call the education system but you reach
a threshold of your academic ability where someone
needs to step in and help and this was mine it
can come at any any stage you know it can come
at when someone gets to their a levels that might
be the threshold that they hit and they're like
i'm actually really need some help now sometimes
it's year one when all of a sudden the big words
are getting smaller on the page and they started
to jump around and letters get flipped and all
of a sudden that becomes too much doesn't it
that's the threshold Exactly. And it can come
whenever. It could hit people, you know, even
when they do further education than I did, like
a PhD, suddenly they need to help stuff in. And
yeah, I got a diagnosis quite soon after that.
Did you feel them? How did you feel with your
diagnosis? Did you feel relieved? Did you feel
more pressure? Did you feel, I don't know, how
did that sit with you? Felt like nothing when
they told me. It was the weirdest thing. Because
I cried to the whole assessment. It was like
two hours of someone made me do something that
I knew I was bad at. So the assessment was me
reading unseen text out loud. I hadn't done that
in the whole time I was at university. Because
you avoided it. I avoided it. And my method of
coping was memorizing. And at the time, I didn't
think, I have dyslexia, so I'm going to memorize
this. My coping was, I'm not smart enough to
read this. I need to memorize it. So it's really
interesting when I look back. So when they said
it to me, I cried through the whole assessment.
They made me spell stuff. I was like, my spelling's
awful. I can't believe they're making me do this.
I cried. And then they told me and I felt nothing.
It was the weirdest thing. It was one of the
first times I struggled to process information
because then you start going through every exam
you sat in. You know, I remember even now a GCSE
science exam when... I read a question, oh my
gosh, 10 times. I was like, what is this saying?
What is this saying? I read it, read it, read
it, read it again. And I was like, I can't process
what this sentence is. And I was 16 and I still
remember that moment. And then as a 20 -year
-old going back to that thinking, my God, that
was why. That was why I couldn't process that.
and then then obviously the more you read it
the worse it gets but I was running out of time
in that exam because I didn't have the extra
time at the time so that was making it worse
you know as a 20 year old going through all of
those moments where something happened and then
being the person I was I just tried to find a
better way to cope with it and you'd made it
your identity if you tell yourself something
enough it becomes your identity so I guess in
that moment of being told you're dyslexic you
were reliving those moments and thinking I was
never that. It was never me. It was this, it
was this, it was this, it was this. You've got
a lot of unlearning to do about who you are.
Yeah. The crazy thing as well, that exam that
I got 4 % on had to stay on my record because
my diagnosis came after. I wasn't allowed, you're
not allowed to re -sit an exam if you were diagnosed
after. So that was quite a hard thing to process
as well. I realized that I had mixed up all those
numbers and got it wrong. And now you know why.
Yeah, now I know why and I couldn't fix it because
I couldn't reset it. But following that diagnosis,
I got extra time on a laptop. And up until that
point in university, I was getting two ones on
everything. I could not get that first. Every
time. It got to the point where I'd get my friend
to open my results because I was like, it's going
to be a two. Just tell me it's a two one because
I know it's a two one. Whereas really with your
IQ, you should be getting first. I just thought.
You should. I was like, I should be. What am
I doing? But then I go back to, but you're just
not as clever. It's always been like this, Jess.
It's always been like this. You've got to go
for it. You're not going to get it first because
I just couldn't. And then, yeah, I got the final
year of university. I got extra time, which was
incredible for me because I do read so slow compared
to my peers. I do read a lot slower and I'd have
to reread things quite a lot as well. And I got
a laptop, which was amazing because I avoided
GCSE English so bad. So my sentence structure
was really not where it should be for the...
So the fact that I had access to a laptop meant
that I could type everything out and then I could
move things around, which made my essays so much
better. The two things they gave me, I also started
reading off of yellow paper as well, which really
reduced my eye strain. And I ended up getting
firsts all of that year. And I won, I wrote my
dissertation that year as well. And then I won
an award for my dissertation because it was the
best psychology dissertation that year. And that
is why it's so important for children to have
a diagnosis or young people to have a diagnosis
or adults have a diagnosis and relevant accommodations.
That's why. Because it wasn't because you had
extra time. It was because you have dyslexia.
yeah isn't it you didn't get that first because
you had extra time that's not that's not what
happened you got a first because you can get
a first you just need the scaffolding yeah in
order to to allow you to show your what you can
really do isn't yeah absolutely yeah and that's
why I do what I do now is it is that why so you
you went from that diagnosed at 20 you had your
degree you did work you fell into teaching Did
you? Had a job in between. Yeah. So were you
a science teacher first and then the SENCO job
came up and you thought I could do this because
I can really relate to the children or how did
that kind of come about? I got a graduate scheme
after university. It was the most incredible
experience. It lived in London. I did 800 and
over 800 people applied for the job and there
was two positions and I got the one. And my university
were incredible at supporting me getting that
graduate scheme. They were amazing. And I had
the best two years in London. I just felt so
much draw to be a teacher. I always went to university
to be a teacher anyway. But I got this graduate
scheme and, you know, so many people applied.
I was like, I've got to do this. Like, I've got
to do this graduate scheme. So many people wanted
it. I did it. And then two years in, I was like,
I'm going to go train to be a teacher. I just
know that that's what I want to do. Brave. It's
really brave. It was really scary. I had a pros
and cons list written out for a good six months
before I made the decision, but it was the best
decision I ever made. And I'm so much happier
now in teaching. But going through teacher training,
obviously my brain is always thinking. what about
special educational needs what about special
educational needs and there's just not enough
training on it when you train to be a secondary
school teacher I don't know if there's more important
I learned about dyslexia so no there's nothing
it's it's rubbish yeah and that's going through
my head the whole time my head the whole time
because my experience was there's so many I know
there's going to be kids out there like me I
know there's going to be so I at least you know
they're lucky if they get to 20 before it gets
picked up. I mean, not lucky at all. Of course,
that's a stupid way of saying it. But, you know,
so many children can't struggle at early years,
year one, two, three, you know, all the way up.
There is so much need. And especially for those
teenagers, you know, those teenagers that...
are high masking that like you were doing making
accommodations for themselves telling themselves
they're not good enough or they're not working
hard enough yeah making accommodations for themselves
but maybe they're not the easiest way or maybe
going a roundabout way of actually just completing
the task when actually they could just need loop
but loop headphones or they just need extra time
or they just need an ipad or they just need a
prompt it seems unfair I'll never know the impact
that it had on me in terms of that negative mindset
because I did always say that to myself you're
just not as clever work harder you've got to
put in more work you're just not as smart as
them I would never know the impact of my what
I would view myself as if I didn't have that
you never know but I can only imagine that it
would have been a positive thing but obviously
the most influential person that's ever one of
the most influential people that's been in my
life is that lecturer that turned around to me
and said have you had a dyslexia diagnosis yeah
and I was like no that just that one that one
teacher just taking that time just to or having
the knowledge to recognize that that was a sign
completely changed the course of my fork in your
road wasn't it in the path of your life and now
you are that teacher and it makes sense to me
that you would want to be that because that was
pivotal in your whole journey and everything
you are and have become it makes sense that you
would want to be that for other teenagers yeah
and you know I so I'll come into contact with
nearly I think over 100 pupils a week because
obviously I have nine classes so many kids because
you you're not obviously you guys got to have
your kids all day which is lovely but I'll touch
so many different people's lives And, you know,
one of those is going to be, oh, 20 % should
be. So many of those are going to go undiagnosed
or are not going to be around people in their
life that have the knowledge or experience in
this field. So they just need to cross paths
with me and I'll notice it. Like I have the opportunity
to do that for someone that did it for me. And
the impact that had. I only had a year left of
uni. Having that support and realising that I
could now reach my full potential that I kind
of knew was there. I was always frustrated with
myself because I was like, I just feel like I
can do this. I'm just running out of time. The
fact that I only had, I mean, nine months probably
with the full support changed so much for me.
My confidence just grew so much. I'd stopped
looking at things. I'm not sure I can do that.
to walking into an interview where i knew other
800 people who applied for and having the confidence
yeah because i do think if i was in that mindset
i was in two years ago i don't think i would
have gone in with the same no i can do this attitude
then the earlier you get that realization surely
the better because then you're not limiting yourself
in any way or the environment or the people around
you aren't limiting you like the conversation
we were saying earlier oh I don't think you should
go to university maybe try this well actually
maybe those conversations would look a bit different
if they understood the whys behind these things
you know and then put accommodations in place
maybe maybe they could be that thing that they've
always wanted to be yeah regardless of because
I had a lot of unlearning to do whereas if you
catch it early and you diagnose early, they're
never going to have those learnings that I had
in place. And learning that started from 18,
I mean, so 11 years old to 20 years old, they're
such crucial years. And I was lucky, you know,
I came from an amazing supportive family. Again,
some people aren't lucky enough to have that.
So if they had my personal experience, plus a
family that wasn't there to support them through
it. When they did think, oh, I'm just not clever
enough. That's, yeah. I mean, I can, that's half
of my, well, most of my staff team, honestly.
I've got a team of eight people in my, adults
in my classroom that are incredible, incredible
at what they do. They are such experts in the
field, but because they doubt their academic
ability. They will never be speech and language
therapists or occupational therapists or teachers,
even though they would make the most incredible
therapists. They are therapists. They are medical
professionals. They just, you know, they just
can't give themselves that title without that
training. But you mentioned going back to school
for them and you just see fear, like pure fear.
I mean, even the fact, even some parents, and
maybe you get this as well, coming through the
gate to drop off their... children or going to
parents evening some parents just walking through
that gate with all their past traumatic experiences
of school is huge that you can see the defense
you can see that the teachers are the bad guys
because they didn't get me they didn't understand
it the system you know you're hearing all these
words because they were just so misunderstood
yeah and it does have a spiral like you said
you said about the spiral earlier it has it has
a real cycle of i'm not good enough therefore
i can't therefore i won't but you see bad negative
um unsafe behaviors um and then peer pressures
for them to then join and it's spiral when really
maybe they have the need because ultimately we
all just want to do well and get on really there's
always a need isn't there if you're seeing that
kind of unsafe or disruptive behavior in your
classroom there's a reason they might be under
stimulated and bored because actually they're
highly intelligent and your lessons are boring
or actually there's an unmet need there that
they can't focus they're struggling they're falling
behind they're not feeling worthy One of the
most powerful things I do in the classroom is
genuinely, I struggle to spell words quite a
lot, especially in science because they're so
quite long. And there's some words which I always
get a blank with. So nucleus, obviously in biology
I spell nucleus all the time. But for some reason,
I honestly must have written the word nucleus
a thousand times more. And I still, I'm at the
board sometimes. I'm like, how do I spell it?
So I do it quite early on and I do it with all
of my classes. Because again, you don't, you
don't. know who's in you don't know if children
are going to relate to us or not so I'll be writing
to it on the board and I'm like they'll probably
be like 14 15 years old and I'll say how do you
spell nucleus again I was like I'm really sorry
guys I've got dyslexia and I'm just having one
of those mind blank moments and sometimes they
look at me like wow did she just say that one
why is she like telling us like a teacher's meant
to be this like perfect knows everything person
and she just asked us how to spell nucleus but
then you can see some kids on their faces they
think wow she's like super confident about it
and then actually when you're really open like
that one someone will tell me I spell nucleus
which is great because I've just forgotten and
two just for someone in that room that will be
a moment where they're like especially teenage
girls because this is how they speak to me like
miss I love that like I love the confidence like
own it but also somebody else will be thinking
maybe I shouldn't be ashamed because I struggled
so too well she's obviously doing her rights
for herself she's a teacher and if and I couldn't
spell that either so maybe we're not too different
maybe I can have aspirations to be yeah a teacher
or or different all of that comes with me just
turning around and saying guys I'm really sorry
I've forgotten how to spell nucleus I've got
I've got dyslexia I just I want like a mind blank
so much comes with that and maybe that comes
also with oh sorry I'm feeling really tired today
like I'm not feeling it or or sorry I'm I'm feeling
a bit emotional today because you know that takes
a lot of confidence for a teacher to admit that
doesn't it yeah but it it embeds a philosophy
of we're all human we all go through you know
we're all different we all have struggles this
classroom is a safe space to come with these
things and to hold them together and it's safe.
And even if a child doesn't have dyslexia, they
might still feel safe coming to with you about
a bullying incident. Because if you're okay about
that, then maybe you'll be okay about this. It
opens up the doors for those open conversations,
doesn't it? Yeah. And it makes me very real human.
With flaws. We all have flaws. Yeah, with flaws.
I think there's... again like there's so many
different teaching styles but I've I've never
had a bad reaction to when I've done that other
than they they suddenly think I'm real I just
I just hope that if I when I do it that one people's
thinking I'm not going to be ashamed and also
dyslexia is probably also the reason you're so
brilliant at science and can visualize it in
practice right because let's let's face it dyslexia
has its perks as well you know completely very
creative mind such a visual you know learner
you'd have been the ones that would survive the
tiger because you'd see it first and all of those
kind of things you know and it's taught it's
discussing that as well isn't it yeah and everyone
teaches how they want to be taught as well so
I naturally teach in a way that I wish I was
taught at school you know I was taught out of
a textbook and for most of my science whereas
I do the exact opposite of that in my lessons.
So I think there's so many benefits to one, having
my diagnosis with being a teacher, but also just
being open about it. I feel like I am a lot better
at my Senko role because I've had personal experiences
going through the education system struggling
and then having my year at the end where I had
the help and saw the impact that it made. It
makes me so much better at my job. It feels so
much purpose that I didn't have when I did that
whole corporate job in London. Whilst it was
a great experience, I feel so much purpose and
I really am so happy that I do my job now that
I do. As crazy as it is working with teenagers.
Yeah, I bet. That's such a great motivation.
What a wonderful way to end this podcast with
that motivation of, you know, share what you're
feeling, share what you're going through. with
your learners because and hold that space for
them to then feel feel like the space is theirs
as well it's how you build community isn't it
absolutely thank you so much for having me I
really enjoyed it when can everybody listen to
your podcast and find your amazing things to
hear more about such important topics as this
one yeah absolutely so we are the teacher experience
podcast um me and my co -host miss wild we teach
well she's a science teacher as well and we just
talk all things teaching much like you guys so
yeah come and come and have a chat with us one
day some brilliant brilliant conversations and
then you get some really really exciting and
interesting guests thank you so much jess for
joining me today thank you so much