Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. Today I'm joined by Ellie,
a special needs teacher, and we're going to talk
all things special needs classroom today. Hello
Ellie. Hi, nice to meet you. And you, welcome
to the Sensory Classroom podcast, even though
I feel like you're very comfortable in a sensory
classroom. Yes. yes definitely my second home
no exactly it does end up like your second home
doesn't it in fact I've probably got more of
my things in my classroom than at home literally
or like the more I just spend money on like things
for in here more so than I do for home like oh
that'll do my classroom very nicely that's a
special education teacher thing yeah 100 i'm
just like oh yeah that looks shiny i'll take
that oh that looks sensory i'll take that yeah
maybe it's because we can't just print out we
can't just photocopy like it's not as easy as
that it's all stuff isn't it it is it's so like
concrete resource heavy that i just think when
you see it you just know like i know that'll
be useful i don't know how yet but it will be
useful it's shiny it's got texture it's gonna
be good it's so true and also they they You can
never find the perfect item when you need it.
Literally. So you just need to have everything.
Literally. My cupboards are just full. And then,
yeah, like Amazon just comes every other day,
I swear, for like new books into the classroom.
Amazon is, how do teachers do it before Amazon
and the internet? Because also it is always last
minute, isn't it? So you do need it the next
day. Yeah, like literally like. we just did an
attention awesome today with like St. Patrick's
Day and I was like oh like there's bound to be
things on Amazon that I didn't know yeah there
was like some bubbles that I found hilarious
like just so much so good amazing but dangerous
for our finances right so true yeah I know right
tell us about your classroom then so yeah what
how many what kids have you got what age are
they how many so I am I'm quite new to teaching
so I've been this is my second year teaching
um I've been at the school I've had like here
for a really long time I'm thinking it's like
my eighth or ninth year now but I've just sort
of progressed so the kind of classroom I have
now is really interesting because I've I feel
like I've known these since they were in early
years so I'm now in a secondary classroom I've
got eight children all either non -speaking pre
-verbal vocal users and I've got five adults
so that kind of gives you an idea of like sort
of the needs as well The school that I'm in,
we only take children with autism. That's like
sort of the fundamental. Everyone's got to have
a diagnosis of autism to be enrolled in our school.
And then obviously like with that, we get other
things, other complex needs that come naturally
alongside. But the class I'm in would be classified
as one of our most complex needs class. um due
to especially the communication um that we have
in here so yeah like honestly I just love it
like I've always been in a class really similar
to this when I first started as a TA um I was
just put in with a class very similar to this
I was fresh out of uni and I was like oh my gosh
what am I doing and I just loved it like I just
think especially in SEN you either love it or
you don't and I feel like that's always been
my approach with my team like we get Different
staff come in and out as you just do an education.
I'm like, hey, if you don't like it, it's okay.
It's not for everybody. You have to give it 150%.
There's just no day I can turn up and just not
give it that because... Definitely. And you can't...
Exactly. And you can't learn to love it. You
can't go on a course and... get that gut feeling
you can learn about autism and you can learn
about communication you can learn about sensory
needs but you can't learn that gut sense of love
I think that's what it is it is and also I feel
like it's really important I think as well in
this day and age in education just to be really
honest with it all and say like this is what
it is you know we've got so many different range
of needs in our school that just one classroom
I mean it's the same for children isn't it like
one classroom doesn't necessarily meet their
needs that doesn't mean that the school doesn't
meet their needs doesn't mean that like we need
to change everything it's just like okay let's
try something different like and it's just like
adapting yeah like I love it like obviously like
I just absolutely love this kind of explore pathway
last year I was on in a primary class which I
really really enjoyed as well I just this class
I just love love it Just I think because I've
just known them for so long as well. Do you stay
with your class for more than one year? How does
it usually work? So it's really interesting because
obviously this is my second year actually teaching.
Normally there's a little bit of a shift kind
of because in our school now we've gone to three
different style of pathway. So I'm on what we
call the explore pathway. So those teachers,
it's very much that skill set. I mean, I would.
obviously go to a different pathway but that's
not where my skill set is okay so you're kind
of you do stay with the students majority of
the time just because of the the different pathways
that we have but I I just so much the same with
them because I feel like you seem so much more
progress over a long period of time like when
I've got a child that I've had from last year
that moved with me and it just really helps because
I do think, you know, just like processing time,
it does take a long time. And we've all had those
moments where you're like, I just don't think
this is working. Like, what are we doing wrong?
Like, I've tried this, I've tried that. And it
can take like a year for something to really
settle in. And you're like, I can't. and sometimes
with the rigidity of rules around autism like
basically I've I have my same kids for seven
years and then so they're with me at five in
reception and then they leave with me in year
six Wow. Yeah. And then they have a rotation
like that. And I, it was really interesting.
I had two students that I'd had for five years.
So I knew them incredibly well. Yeah. Really,
really well. You have to know it. But we moved
to a different classroom and all of a sudden
they couldn't do the things that we could do
in the other room. They needed different scaffolding.
They needed different support systems. They needed
different behavior plans. We were seeing things
that we'd never seen before. So it's also like.
The next teacher could take your exact model,
be doing as closely consistently as they can.
Yeah. But just because of the patterns of autism
and reduced anxiety of what the same teacher,
same classroom, same routine brings them, they
will be seeing different things. So if you can
have your students for longer than a year, then
their anxiety will be reduced and you'll be seeing
their best. work aren't you absolutely and you're
so true like I think like we see that all the
time here because we do have a it's a similar
sort of secondary model where we do move around
so like we'll go down to the cooking room and
so they do also get to experience different environments
for their learning but I do think as well it
is like okay you've got to just also keep those
consistency and those routine and those boundaries
wherever you go that you've just got to move
with it whether that be in the community or whether
that be in a different classroom but or you know
when I'm not there you know the amount of times
where I'm like oh my gosh please come back LA
we've only been gone on PPA but I'm like you're
all doing amazing like my team you're doing amazing
like please never doubt that it's just I'm not
there they it doesn't even matter it's just like
whoa that's not normal where are you I need that
consistency please yeah exactly and I often find
also it's a strong member of the team to lose
it doesn't matter it's the teacher yes but it's
a strong member of the team to lose and if it
depends who we get replaced by right if we get
replaced by somebody who doesn't know the children
that's a huge shift in change and dynamic isn't
it yeah like definitely and I think like that's
one thing in education at the moment I think
I feel like I've seen such a change in education
in the last, I think really in the last five
to six years, you know, we have a high amount
of agency staff and it is really tricky to employ
staff members at the moment. And I know that
that's across the board in education from conversations
I have with colleagues of mine, you know, people
just even through my socials, like, you know,
we're struggling, haven't got the same consistency.
And I always just say like, it is, it's so tricky
because you have to like take a step back as
a teacher and go, right. If I'm feeling a little
bit overwhelmed by the fact there's another member
of staff in, they're giving it their 100%, but
they don't know all the little bits. And there's
so many little things. Like you think you've
told somebody all the important bits and then
you go, oh no, sorry, can you not, don't put
that there. Oh no, they don't like that there.
Or make sure you do it like that with them. That's
how you're going to get the best from them. And
then you just forget, like there's so much in
there you've got to know. to really help that
child in that moment or however it might be.
So it's so true. And I often remind, it's a good
reminder for ourselves of how much we know and
how much we know the children, isn't it? Because
I do exactly the same. We have a lovely book
and everything they need to know is in it. But
like you say, of course it isn't. Oh yeah, don't
wear your lanyard. Oh yeah, tie your hair back
or anything like that. It's so true. Like, you
know, you've got like, we're the same. Like,
you know, we've got their, they're all about
me as we call them and their, you know, behavior
plans. But then it's really hard as well sometimes
to get that into paper. And I feel like, oh,
there's so much more to you than just this piece
of paper. Like, of course, you're so much more
than that. And it's so tricky sometimes to get
that across. But yeah, like they all are just,
yeah, they're just brilliant. I mean, no day
is the same. That is for sure. It is so interesting,
isn't it? Because we are so, we have a predictable
routine. structure we have our you know systems
every day should be the same and it absolutely
isn't it was full moon this week oh and my goodness
i know doing what people just like net like don't
it seem to go if they don't work and I'm like
no the wind the full moon oh my gosh does it
influence like how my week is going to be we
have a little calendar and a staff every single
time we just do a little moon and I'm like right
then we all know hun so we can all just you know
be on the same page prepared to get an extra
good night's sleep that the night before yeah
it's so true can we talk about your journey into
teaching because I started as a teaching assistant
too so I'm just wondering if it's quite aligned
I was a teaching assistant for three years whilst
I was doing my degree yeah and then I did a PGCE
in primary education and then I went back to
that special needs school that I was a TA at
to teach to do my first year what was your journey
into teaching yeah so I did a just a degree in
education and then when I was doing that I did
a lot of volunteering um in different youth groups
um in schools and then when I left literally
applied for the job and as LSA and I was like
yep let's go for it let's move here let's try
something new and I did learning support assistant
TA for about four years I think it was altogether
very similar sort of stayed in a really similar
class like this and then I wasn't sure at the
time how I wanted to do this journey um and back
then the only option for me to go into teaching
was to go back to uni which I was a bit like
I'm not sure if I want to do that so I went and
did I was a family support worker for social
care for a little while so I did that for a year
then we had COVID and I was like this is definitely
not I miss school so much and then a pastoral
manager job came up in the school that I was
previously in applied for it got it did two years
as a pastoral manager and then my school introduced
um teaching like on the job basically you learn
on the job so it had it in place for a couple
of years and on like my head was just constantly
like come on Ellie you can do this and I was
like well I don't know if I can yeah I don't
know if I can and I just did it I was like come
on you just gotta bite the bullet like this just
do it go back to it so I did it and I I just
highly recommend the route I did to anybody because
I feel like now, this is only my second official
year of teaching. I'm still classified as ECT2.
The amount of experience. And, you know, I go
to placements because I still have to do placement.
And they're like, I don't believe you've only
got like, what is your, and I was like, yeah,
but I've been in SEN for like six years. And
you just, I feel like I've built such a holistic
approach. And like now I know what it's like
when I'm dealing with CPOM, safeguarding stuff,
because I've got that social worker hat. I've
never asked my team to do anything that I wouldn't
do. And I know what it feels like to be a TA.
I know what it feels like to literally, you are
the bones of my class, like TAs. I would be nothing
without my team, like nothing. I feel like it
makes me such a better manager and such a better
teacher because special education teachers are
managers like we are managing lots of adults
I've got eight adults in my room it's a hella
task and I did it differently than you then so
I did an acting degree Yeah. I had to add three
years TA experience during that, which helped.
And that's what I fell back on when I became
a teacher. But my goodness, my TAs dragged me
through the first two years of teaching. I could
not have done it without them. I didn't have
a clue. My degree and my PGCE taught me nothing
about SEN, nothing special education. I think
we did a lecture on dyslexia. It was shocking.
And I really hope it's different now. People
tell me it is. And I think some aren't, some
aren't. Yeah, I agree. I just, I really. feel
like this is such a good way to do it because
you know even somebody that went to I went to
uni with you know she did um primary teaching
and she's been a primary teacher and I'm just
like you know amazing experience but the SEN
and it is like that it's so much more complex
than just a couple of lectures or you know a
couple of slides it's like you've just got to
live it so I just think it's just made me such
a best teacher for having a car yes yeah it took
me it took me years to get to where you're at
like years luckily we had great therapists and
occupational therapists as part of the school
and i was just like teach me like tell me because
i really didn't come with any knowledge like
practical knowledge at all not no book knowledge
at all um and it would have been really helpful
i do but i also think though like i'm i'm like
that still now honestly like the speech and language
team come in and like i sit down with them or
i'm not going anywhere like i'm not taking like
time out like i want to sit and watch because
That's how you also learn. That's why I've got
such good knowledge of things like communication
boards, the importance of having constant communication
everywhere. Like, you know, there's just communication
boards covering visuals, covering my classroom
without being overstimulating. So it's like getting
that balance. But I'm like, you know, the only
reason is because I'm just constantly like messaging
them like, hi, it's me again. What can I do for
this? Because you do, don't you? And also so
many things change. And it's like. You just need
to know how to best. I think I always just go
back to the child. I'm like, how can I best support
you? And it's by me constantly adapting and growing
as well. Like I can't just finish here and be
done. Like I need to also learn. Things are changing
all the time. Gosh, there was things that I was
doing 15 years ago that I'm really frowned upon
now. And that was just how things were done.
And I feel like it's really dangerous. We were
talking about this on the podcast recently. the
answer but that's how I've always done it is
such a dangerous sentence isn't it to be constantly
learning constantly adapting constantly changing
language changing how we're doing things is really
positive and I hope that in 15 years I'm looking
back at what I'm doing now I'm thinking gosh
I would never do it like that I've I've learned
an even better way I know even more now it has
to be that way and I think in every career really
especially when you're and you're managing and
and supporting such vulnerable young people yeah
oh absolutely I couldn't agree more I think I
think there's even been so much change even in
the last eight years you know there's things
that we did as practice that we wouldn't do now
and I'm like yeah like you look you look back
but then that's what's really good is that the
in SELM is just this drive of constantly changing
you know things like pecs like we don't use those
now as much as we do you know and there's different
things that happen and i just think it is really
important why like even as a you know like i
say all careers but especially teaching and especially
sen you have to have a growth mindset otherwise
it just won't work yeah and the children's needs
that we are receiving in school is is becoming
more complex or for the better for one of a better
word yeah and yeah we're having to learn new
things all the time every new child into our
room brings new things that we need to learn
yeah and also just like i think sometimes even
the children when they check you know when they
go through i mean i'm in secondary i've got i've
got a real wide range of ages because in our
school we don't um have classrooms based on age
so it's based on age for appropriacy but it's
not based on like this is a year eight class
this is a year nine class it's all it's all mixed
you know i've got things like hormones going
on and you just think oh my gosh right we've
just got somewhere with you and now you've got
hormones and that's you know a whole other ball
game when all of that starts happening yeah i
used to teach a class age 14 to 19 in my last
school yeah hormones periods masturbation it
was like it was like a daily topic yeah so my
22 year old self was like What is this? Bring
it on. Yeah, exactly. I remember as a teaching
assistant, actually, I was 18 and I was changing
the pad of an 18 year old and just thinking like,
I don't like, I don't know if I just probably
like looking back, I shouldn't have been put
in that situation probably because I was like,
he was quite vulnerable. I was quite vulnerable.
Like it just shouldn't have been the case, but
it was. Yeah. And I remember thinking in the
moment, like this feels weird. Like this. feels
like a big responsibility for an 18 year old
to have and do it to do it really well and do
it really respectfully yeah um yeah it's a huge
ask isn't it and we are asking our teaching assistants
daily to be doing these really intimate tasks
well yeah and and like you say you know ensuring
that those children have that exact right dignity
because they are absolutely as entitled to it
as anybody else and it is really vulnerable you
know working in especially I feel like sometimes
the kind of classrooms that I work in here and
so my classroom next door is really similar we
have quite similar needs we're both on the same
pathway you know those children are what's some
of the most vulnerable in our society and for
six to seven hours of their day they are away
from their parents or their carers they're with
us you know it's so important they're minimally
speaking so they're vulnerable because they're
minimally speaking so they can't disclose information
they can't ask for help or to explain what has
just happened they are relying on us solely for
drinks or food or changing or you know cooling
their temperature, checking if they're ill, you
know, all of these things. We're all making the
best guesses all the time, but ultimately, you
know, they are just hypotheses. Yeah. So that's
why we're saying vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Some are physically vulnerable, but also there's
this vulnerability there. Yeah, yeah. of need
isn't absolutely yeah no absolutely um and I
just think you know that's something as well
that's really important that is like shared within
the team and it's just really important that
you do have a good team around you um and a team
that you know that you can talk to try like just
have that open communication with and a bit like
I said like if I don't model and set those expectations
and also put myself into those situations you
know I'll happily do whatever I need to do. So
is that your philosophy of managing your team
is like, I will never ask you to do anything
that I won't do. I'll pick up the worst lunchtime.
I'll pick up the worst jobs, like modeling that.
Yeah, to the point that my team will be like,
Ellie, go have a break. I'm like, okay, okay.
But I just want to 100%. I think I just don't
believe in. asking someone to do it without me
doing it as well yeah i really relate to this
this is why i'm asking i totally relate it's
funny because i like the lunchtime our lunchtime
so we actually at the moment sleep in our classroom
just purely because the transition to the hall
for all of my students is just too much and we
have to be in and out of the hall in quite fast
paced time i'm always in it and the guys are
like please like let me start i'm like no no
it's fine come on you have your break like i'm
just like please have your break for us then
i'll look after myself and i just think that's
just how i've always modeled as a Even in their
team, but she's a teacher, I want to model so
that you know that I will always do it as well.
I never would ask you to do something without
me doing it first. I think the same with the
children, right? Like if you're going to ask
them to put their hand in slime, then you need
to do it too. Or get sprayed with water or put
on silly hats and do a dance, then you need to
be doing it too. And I think that's really great.
If teachers are listening to this, special education
or not, really good thing to take away from this
podcast, even if you take anything. don't ask
them to do anything unless you're willing to
do it too. So if you're feeling self -conscious
about doing a silly dance and a song, don't ask
the children to do it. Or if you're feeling like,
oh, I don't want to put my hands in that angel
delight, then why are we asking them to do it?
You have to model it. And I think that's the
thing. I think not only do I model it with the
adults, literally same, modeling with the children
all the time. I can't expect them to explore
the foods unless I get my hands in and I do it
as well. And I race those cars in the bake meetings
or whatever it might be that we're doing. And
you have to, like you have to model, model, model,
model. And I think that if you were to come into
the classroom when people do, they go, yeah,
I can tell that you model the expectations. I
can tell you model the tasks and I can tell that
you are definitely a teacher that models because
everybody else around you is also doing that.
And I think what I've really seen my team, especially
like this year. in them develop is the fact that
they are so good at modeling it now as well you
know they'll get involved they'll stick their
hands in they'll model whatever needs doing they'll
get up and do the dances whenever we need to
do you know like oh my gosh we need a movement
dance let's get a film or like a movie or whatever
it is and let's just dance copy the actions we
all get silly at the front and Because why wouldn't
you? Because I literally say, I can't expect
you to join on with me if I'm not going to do
it as well. Yeah, exactly. It would be a weird
hierarchy, wouldn't it? It wouldn't work. Same
with behaviour management as well, right? Yeah.
It's all great having it on paper, but if you're
not following your own plan, then how can you
expect the rest of the team to, right? Yeah,
and I think that's the same as well with like
visuals and routine. You know, I think that the
fundamentals as to why behaviour management always
comes up as a strength in my field is because...
I have to have visuals. I have to have a routine.
I have to have some sort of consistency because
that's. what my children really need but I also
need to make sure I'm modelling it so I have
to always go back to the visual timetable like
right this is now finished this is what we're
doing next you know there's so many now and next
boards that follow my children around with them
or now next and then boards and it doesn't take
long as well my team are brilliant they see me
model it change it over because I mean nobody
talks about how long it takes to change over
a now and next port oh my goodness me you're
like constantly flicking through the folds like
where is the next subject but You have to have
it. And actually, you then see so many benefits
from being consistent, sticking to those visuals,
those routines, sticking to that modelling, and
then it just becomes this whole holistic approach
of, you know, clear communication, clear behaviour,
you know, management. It's giving the children
also a safe and... a space that they know, okay,
I feel like I know what's coming up. I've got
that consistency. And if there is change, you
know, if we have to go and move somewhere else,
if an incident's happened and we all have to
go, well, we know that there's a basket that's
taken and the basket's always full of like sensory
snack. You know, you've got to have that. You're
ready. And yeah, exactly. Or a fire alarm goes
off in the middle of your lesson. You're like,
right, but it doesn't matter because they see
I've got my basket. My basket's full of all my
sensory stuff. It's full of snack. And it's just
keeping that consistency for them. Yeah, it's
their anxiety, doesn't it? They trust you as
well. So if you're not panicking, if you know
what you're doing, if you've got their visuals,
like they'll trust you that when you say that
the fire alarm is going to finish and then it's
not, that it will actually happen because you've
never let them down before. I think it's really
important, isn't it? Yeah, it's so true. And
like, literally, I think so to go back to like
that consistency of just like, yeah, you know
what to expect from me because. I give you that.
I give you that consistency. However it looks,
you know that you're now next and then I will
always follow, you know. Yeah, something to keep
in mind, actually, because some people are saying,
some people often say to me, oh, but the now
and next isn't working. And my first thought
is the next isn't motivating enough. Because
if someone was to say to me, oh, you're going
to work and then you've got a staff meeting,
I'll be like, no, you're all right, actually.
Whereas if they said, you're going to work, then
we're going to get some takeaway pizza later.
I'll be like. Yeah, okay. You've got to tailor
it as well to them. But no now and next board
is the same. You know, I've got two students
in here who consistently use a now, next and
then board. And their now and next and then board
looks very different to my visual timetable,
which the rest of my class can follow. Because
it's all the little added bits in between. There's
those high motivators that get them to... support
and engage in those snippets of moments that
i need them to be because it's like yeah okay
we get the sensory sound and we get this so we
get that and it's like yeah you've got to make
it high motivating and you've got to make it
fun as well for them you know yeah and also maybe
you make the now more fun too like yeah could
you do the now in the sand and then get the car
like let's make it all really motivating but
yeah you're so right that if if the next isn't
a motivator then they're gonna fall yeah yeah
absolutely so what does communication look like
you're in your room we've spoken a bit about
now and next and visual timetables what else
are you doing to support that communication for
these minimally speaking children so we've got
um just a lot of visuals in general so all the
children on their desks um regardless of vocal
speakers or even pre the the boards they all
have a communication board So are they like symbols?
Yeah, sorry, symbols, yeah. Symbols and then
language, so like drink, snack, help. toilets
the real fundamental of their needs and what
can they point at those any time of the day to
like meet their needs yeah so they've all got
one personalized and then some of them have got
some other things on them that might be personalized
to them and so they can point to it and then
also as adults we model it so if we know we notice
like you know oh look it looks like you need
your drink because you're like oh we'll also
follow so we use a lot of Makaton as well and
you know made up Makaton for the children that
can't quite or even I'm like there's a sign for
that I haven't got time to look at it right now
like I'm just gonna make up one until I find
what it actually is because it's on the spot
moments isn't it where you're like I actually
don't know what that sign is it's like Makaton
is brilliant because often it is the obvious
sign like drink is miming a drink yeah opening
crisps is opening a bag of crisps and getting
a crisp out like yeah it's brilliant that's why
I like Makaton I love it I love it so much and
we do it as a whole class anyway so we'll do
singing hands and that kind of thing and the
children have had a lot a lot of exposure to
Makaton and there are definitely children who
that's one of their main use of communication
and it's just yeah us modeling it as well I think
Subconsciously, I don't know if you do as well,
but I constantly feel like I'm always Makaton
-ing. I don't realize I'm doing it and I'll have
it in lesson observations where they're like,
oh, you did really great Makaton. I'm like, did
I? I just, I didn't realize it's just like my
second language because I just think I know that
it's so important. So you just do it naturally.
Yeah. And it helps understanding, doesn't it?
Because with other sign languages, they're doing
it because they might not be able to hear. Yeah.
what you're speaking whereas with Makaton you
are speaking too it just reiterates the meaning
yeah because they're typically autistic children
especially those that are that find receptive
language quite difficult it's a lot of information
to say oh tell me do you want a drink are you
thirsty like that's a lot whereas if they're
also seeing you doing this yeah They're visual
learners and they might think, yeah, I can process
that. It's drink. Yes, I do want a drink. And
I also think it makes you slow down. So true.
Because they think that I am really big on waiting.
So I'll sit there and I'll have made a request
or asked an instruction. I might, come on, you
know you've got to count to 10. Like, okay, it's
not like, you know, you've got to allow that
processing time. And I think Makaton also really
helps with that because I think, like you're
saying, rather than saying, Ellie, would you
like a drink? It's like. drink drink and done
because and it's you know or sit down you know
you just sit down it's finished yeah and i just
think it really helps you as educators to just
slow that language down because it can be so
quick and easy to go 100 miles an hour and think
oh my goodness me something's happening or i
know i need to quickly get this or whatever else
but it actually makes you go no it's okay just
slow it down it's fine yeah and processing time
is so important 10 seconds is perfect 10 seconds
is so great i've had some students in my class
that needed 20 seconds i've got a student in
my class that's two minutes their pmld yeah it's
really great a really great way of assessing
process time is exactly that is asking them to
do something like Can you pass me the ball? Yeah.
And then just count in your head how long it
takes for them to do that action. Or if they're
PMLD, putting something in their hand, counting
how long it takes for them to close their hand
and receive that. That's a really great indicator
as to I've taken in your instruction. I'm making
my body work. I'm thinking about what I need
my body to work. And I've done the action. And
sometimes it's eight seconds to like 20 seconds
is kind of average. But it's really great to
know that for every people and for your adults
to know that. Yeah. Because then you can, yeah,
when you're given instruction, you can wait that
time. When you're giving them a sensory item,
you can wait that time. For example, there's
people that I have in my class who's two minutes
processing time. There is no point me wafting
a scarf at them. five seconds and then moving
on into the sensory story. You'll have to have
it for at least two minutes to even be able to
engage with it, let alone process, you know,
what it's doing and what it's linking with the
story. And we've noticed such great things from
him and progress from him since giving him that
time because he's able to show us. You've got
to give that time because, you know, I think
when I've done it and I've been like, right.
And I think sometimes as well, as a teacher,
there's so many things going on and there's so
many things in our brain of like, I've got to
remember this, I've got to remember that, that
actually when we're given instruction, it's really
important for us to go, right, take a step back
actually, just remember that it doesn't have
to be done right there and now. And actually
I can justify, this is wise. If you're, if someone's
observing or someone's just like, even my team.
what are you doing Ellie? You've got, I'm like,
wait, yes, but this is what we need to do. We
need to give processing time. We need to allow
because X, Y, and Z. So yeah, like I think this
Makaton really helps with that. I really do.
And then also in my class, I've actually got
vocal users, which is the first time this year
that I've had vocal users. And that's been so
interesting and amazing. I've absolutely loved
that journey of having vocal users. Are they
quite eloquent or is it single word use? Is it
sentences? I've got two, one mainly more so like
single word and then another one who will put
together sentences. And then I've got a couple
who are having an assessment for them. And it's
just lovely to see like that language. I'm like,
yeah, like, you know. talk about whatever you
want to talk about and we can do that and i just
think it's just amazing and we've got a few more
around the school as well who are voca users
and so one big thing like this year i've been
just trying to really get on top of like when
we make requests we make requests using the voca
because you know we i want them to be able to
have this this is part of like the journey to
them to be able to get it is making sure we're
using it all the time in school as well it comes
around with us everywhere we go you know to the
point that literally it comes swimming just not
obviously in the pool it literally you go i'm
like right let's you know now we're a lot better
now as a team i think when we first is it on
its own device or is it yeah so yeah they've
got an ipad app they've all got they've got like
a little strap as such they can carry it around
with them so it's lovely because it is independent
then i'm like this is your voice take it with
you it's your voice and it's just really good
to remember as well that's their voice so you
know there'll be the occasions where madagascar
it gets written in i'm like it's really great
you want to talk about madagascar not now but
i'll talk about later so look now is this maths
whatever it might be shapes and then we'll talk
about madagascar we'll draw madagascar but i'm
like gosh like before the vocal like you didn't
have that opportunity you know to share that
and it's just such amazingness to have like this
technology now that allows it and i think with
parents it's obviously really tricky isn't it
like waiting the waiting game for everything
when it comes to SEN like it's just hard parents
are like oh my gosh this is amazing he might
have asked me like 10 times for biscuits and
he won't stop but like he's never said that before
it's like a communication I'm like brilliant
like we just want a communication everywhere
like just and sometimes like you don't have the
symbol like you were saying like it takes me
a while to find the symbol that we need um or
it gets broken or lost and they can't ask for
black orange juice for a whole few days until
we make another symbol whereas when you've got
an app and there are so many out there all sorts
of different prices from free to about 500 pounds
yeah you can just type it in and then you've
got the black guarantees and it will never just
it will never perish it will it's always there
so it's so exciting and lots of students that
I didn't think would be able to have the fine
motor skills in order to access something like
this with a few setting changes actually they're
incredibly capable of accessing this so It's
really exciting in the SEN world. I feel like
it's going to be a big change over the next few
years is seeing this huge impact that IT is bringing
into the classroom. It's awesome. It's amazing.
It is amazing. Like, it's just like, you know,
like, I think. The fact that we're moving now
with the times of how much technology is just
advancing and it's no longer like flicking through
books to find, you know, where is that snack
symbol? It's just there, snack, what do you want?
And you click on it and then there's all these
other different types of snacks. You're like,
oh my gosh, it's amazing. Like it is so good.
We've spoken a lot about like around lesson time.
What do your lessons look like? Is it practical?
bit of both we have a very spiral curriculum
here at the school and we have maths and english
so like literacy for example will be like the
literature box up there is full of my sensory
story objects so we'll always have a book that
we focus on there'll be something we might focus
on in the book like the who so who character
so much colorful semantics to build sentences
um and we always have a sensory story which i
just love like i love doing sensory stories the
messier the better um And it is practical. There
is sort of like that worksheet, very teach -task
element of it as well. So it's just a mismatch,
to be honest with you, of whatever the curriculum
is. I suppose like what it needs to be. So, you
know, like for example, shape was maths like
last term and it's measurement this term. There's
so many practical things that allows it to be
like that. So would you change your story every
term or would you change your story weekly? Yeah,
we change every term. Yeah, so we have our focus
every term of the story. And then... We'll have
that as our fundamentals. Every single literacy
lesson starts with me telling my story. And sometimes
that is it. That is my literacy lesson. We've
explored the story, especially for the first
couple of lessons of it, just exploring the story
and really immersing them in that whole experience
of the sensory story. We use Choose It Maker
here as well. So then we'll maybe retell the
story using Choose It Maker, which is a real
great... my class just love choose it maker and
it's so good for things like turn taking answering
questions and obviously you can adapt it to different
symbols different like visuals however it might
be and then a tabletop task and again that tabletop
task will be completely adapted to whatever needs
it could be colorful semantic sentence making
it could be matching symbol to symbol it could
be exploring even more of the whatever it is
yeah like it'll be just so whatever their needs
are so yeah it could be a sensory bin full of
like at the moment our story is all about animals
sensory bin full of animals with some visuals
of the animals and us just exploring that or
building sentences regarding describing the animals
or them writing you know i've got some children
who've got really good writing so again some
of them writing um so it just depends kind of
on their needs so very much the fundamentals
and then i'll adapt it to whatever it needs to
be what do you battle or configure the whole
age appropriateness conversation I know some
people have quite strong opinions on it being
age appropriate or stage appropriate like how
do you as with secondary school pupils I can
imagine it comes up a lot and it's in your mind
quite a lot how how do you navigate that it's
so good like it's so true especially when it
comes to stories because I think that actually
stories in English you know the children where
they are in terms of their levels you'd be like
but then that's the book. And I'm like, well,
that's not really age appropriate. It's kind
of like early years. Early years, yeah. Or preschool
kind of stuff. Yeah, definitely. And then the
books are sometimes just, they're not appropriate
at all because they are so young in age. And
also I'm like, you've now in secondary, you've
probably potentially seen this book as well a
significant amount of times. Why are you going
to bother listening to me read it to you again?
Like, We're Going on a Bear Hunt is like... Yeah,
exactly. Overused in it. Yeah. So, um... I think
me and my co -teacher next door, we work really
hard on trying to find books that are not only
giving that sensory, well, we can allow it to
give them that sensory experience. But we just
adapt it. So like the book now, for example,
is such a good example of a book that has a lot
of language in. If you were to look through the
book, it's got quite a lot of language in. But
the first look, I think to be fair, the first
look I always give any book is like, oh my gosh,
right, okay, challenge accepted. Because it's
like, oh, not again. But it's just taking it
and stripping it back. So it's still a book about
deadly animals. And it's still a book about animals.
But rather than all the other language in between,
it's just, you know, what does a shark... Where's
the shark live? What's his deadly feature? Sharp
teeth, done. And then in that, on our PowerPoints,
we'll make a PowerPoint for it. We'll sort of
just scan the book in and it just has really
simple using widgets, using symbols, has very
much as a sentence, done. Because then the book
is still appropriate. It's then not sort of a
early years style book that just isn't appropriate.
It's got real pictures in, you know, it's got
all of those things. Yeah, I love that it's non
-fiction. That's so great. History stories can
be non -fiction. Yeah, exactly. And I just think
like we then just do a lot of adapting just to
make it meet the needs. And, you know, we have
had battles before. We're like, no, this book,
we can't do that book. It's not appropriate because
it's far too advanced. The language in it is
so complex. Actually, our journey to try and
make that, it just wouldn't work. So let's try
and think about a different book. So I suppose
if you're focusing, what are we actually getting
out of this? What are the kids getting out of
this? What is our main aim here? Okay, it's for
sentence building, right? Does this motivate
the children in order to do that? And if the
answer is yes, like about Deadly Annals, I find
that it's incredibly motivating and interesting,
great. If it's a classic book that isn't really
interesting them, isn't keeping their engagement,
you're not even really enjoying, like it's going
to be pointless, isn't it? And equally so, a
preschool book that might be stage appropriate
for them as far as their understanding goes.
Yeah, like they've heard it before. It's not
going to engage them because it's not exciting
to them. It doesn't engage them in that way.
Yeah, and I think it was really interesting,
actually, like, later on Friday, we had some
talk for writing training, and we were talking
about that, about, like, the propriety of some
of the books, and that age, because it is really
tricky, because, you know, you have to look at,
like... right they are secondary we've got to
make sure that we are fitting it right for them
but also it meets their needs but it's also engaging
enough and it's not something that's just on
repeat all the time it's not just let's just
give them this book and the one that they use
is a little red riding herd and i just thought
it's a really nice example of the fact that actually
there's so many adaptations of that book and
it oh you know this the classic story that doesn't
have to just be the classic story like we can
adapt it just like we do everything else you
know we adapt everything so why should we just
adapt it to make sure we're meeting the needs
and their age range rather than just yeah yeah
we're going on a bear hunt or the gruffalo you
know that's almost the lazy way out isn't it
gruffalo bear hunt yeah exactly that it's the
lazy belt because it's just kind of surprise
there's another one yeah because it lends itself
so well to sensory of course and it does make
a great sensory story but i think what you said
is a really great point yes they might be into
in the night garden yes they might be into telly
tubbies too that's cool like that's awesome i'll
celebrate all them all their interests that's
awesome but it's the idea of that actually they've
repeated this so many times is this engaging
or interesting to them what else can they get
out of it and actually that's quite lazy i think
quite lazy teaching but how exciting to get a
new book in a new way but actually taking all
the fundamentals that Gruffalo and Bearhander
are so great for is repetitive language a simple
sentence structure is predictable all of those
things you could put into any book if you're
if you put the time in yeah and I think that's
the thing you know it's not it's not easy and
you know I do think that's where in SCN you know
There isn't just, well, you're lucky if it's
not just you and there is a team of you. And
I think that's the thing, you know, me and my
co -teacher, it is just great because I'm like,
right. This term wasn't my term, it was her term.
So obviously we work together, but she's the
one that goes through the books, sorts it all
out. And I just think it really helps them because
it's like, yeah, we can make this work. It's
just, we just got to put that teacher hat on
that we do have to, and we know our students
so well as to what bits about this book are they
going to really, really love and what parts can
we, you know, they've loved it. And the sensory
elements as well, you know, we've got tongues
to stick out for the frogs. We've got like a
lion tongue that we have this all like spiky
and they just loved it. And also, so. many of
them just love animals anyway it's such a you
know like little they just love it like and there's
so many different things you can link it to yeah
um and i think like you say like you know lots
of the children here as well we do have those
obsessions in other areas and it's about celebrating
that in a different way you know Or bringing
that into the curriculum in another way. You
know, for example, doing big and small, bringing
up big and small symbols of things like the Teletubbies.
You know, why don't we just do a sorting activity
of big and small with Teletubbies? Like, that's
fine. We can introduce whatever your likes are
into the curriculum, but we can also inject other
things. It doesn't mean it just has to be that.
Let's expand your interest. Let's expand your
knowledge. Yeah. rather than getting stuck like
that's cool we can celebrate that but also have
you seen this like this is also so fun I think
you'll love this absolutely I think that's just
what's really like yeah it's really powerful
and really good and it's also it's also important
and and you know what if it's like well okay
it's clear that you do not like this that's fine
because that's that's also you know good life
skills to go right I don't like this book or
I don't like this part I've made it very clear
I don't like this, and that's okay. We hear you.
We listen to you. Yeah, protest and rejection
is great communication, right? Yeah, absolutely.
A lot of times I'm like, right, I hear you. You
don't like this. That's absolutely fine. I'm
going to stop. we don't have to carry on we'll
do something different you know but it's also
about just getting that fine balance I think
of injecting new things so it is exciting for
them and we can give them some new experiences
whether that be through storytelling whether
that be through our curriculum but also celebrating
themselves and what their likes are and you know
how we can bring that into it as well if you
were changing your story weekly there is absolutely
no way you could build a story so rich and engaged
and spend all that time creating that getting
the resources buying the resources making it
so suitable to them and also getting them to
know it enough and hear it enough that they know
what to do and find it predictable every week
like you just couldn't do that it's only because
you're doing a story a term that you're able
to invest your time and energy and finances in
to make the story like the best thing ever using
all these incredible resources so if you're a
teacher hearing this thinking i'd love to be
able to do this maybe just look at your timetable
maybe look at your planning your long -term planning
and stretch it out a little bit give yourself
that time to really focus and open up what this
topic could really offer. Yeah and I think also
when it comes to things like sensory stories
you've got to just go with it you know you've
got to just allow that time you know however
long that might take because there'll be parts
of the story where it's very clear my students
aren't a big fan of that page they don't quite
like the part of the end okay that's fine we
can move on or there's another part of the book
that they absolutely love that sensory immersed
experience like we're going to sit in this for
a little bit because you're enjoying it and it's
nice to see and we're getting some feedback we're
getting a to and from here. And I think literally
like you say, it is good. And it does take time
and it does take resourcing. It won't be probably
next week that I'm like, right, what's next term's
book? Let's start putting it all together because
that is just part of teaching. We just constantly
are looking at me next. But having that time,
and I just think that's also really important
just to sit sometimes in that time. I do Sensory
Day of the Week, which you might have seen on
my Instagrams before. My children just love that.
And we just sit. We just sit in that sensory
experience. put on the relaxation music we have
the bubbles we have all the the toys and the
smells associated with that day and we just sit
and just enjoy that whole sensory experience
and i just think i get i get that asked a lot
to be fair on social like how do you find the
time for this and we're just it just a 10 minute
pocket like if that's all you can find is a 10
minute pocket in your timetable i guarantee you'll
see some incredible things because i just those
amazing things are set up Yeah. Repeat it, right?
So do you do that every morning since we do it
the week? Yeah, we'll either do it in the morning
before, sort of like in before lunch, or we'll
do it when we come back after lunch. It's very
much, but it's all there. So like, you know,
there's a pocket. And again, it did take time
to set up. It does take time to print the visuals,
get that together, find as many red themed fidget
toys as you can, and then go back to it and go,
right, yeah, they've been chewed. We need to
make sure we're changing those up and all that
kind of stuff. And the scents. but it's now it's
there it's done you know we just add to it that's
all I'm doing now is just adding to it and yeah
we do it every day and it's just a really lovely
experience for them and it was something I started
last year and I was like gosh and I was just
seeing like a complete almost like zen like relaxation
like everyone's shoulders sort of just drop like
yeah nice so they find it relaxing and also it
is helping them to feel grounded in the week
right they know what day of the week it is which
gives them some comfort and some they can predict
what might happen that day yeah absolutely because
it's something i've only just started actually
there's the scent and this and the sensory with
my pmld learners my class kind of split into
two yeah and I'm doing it with one of them and
I mentioned on Friday and yeah it's a blue Friday
and it's coconut and it's a swimming day and
they were like yeah I know that blue and coconut
now means swimming and they're kind of slowly
piecing those things together I could be excited
that it's a swimming day now whereas maybe I
don't know, maybe if we come in on a Monday,
they might be predicting it. And then we might
think, oh, where is this all this behavior come
from? Where's all this anxiety come from? Or
they thought it was a swimming day. Whereas we're
telling them, aren't we? This isn't a swimming
day. This is a PE day or this is a whatever day.
And hopefully it will ease their anxiety and
help their understanding. Absolutely. And then
maybe reduce unsafe behaviors, maybe. Yeah, exactly.
Like absolutely. And I think, you know, like
I say, just that certainty, you know, and going
through, like every morning I'll go through our
timetable and just say the main key things really,
like I won't go through, I'll be there all day,
let's go for every little inject. But the main
key things of like today is swimming, today is
forest school, today is shops. So that it's like,
yes, Thursday, shops. You know, she hasn't said
it today, so it can't be today. And it's just
helping to give them that rather than it just
being. you know trip or whatever else like today
is Wednesday if they asked for forest school
and it wasn't a forest school day how would you
manage that how do you how do you manage that
in your room so I would probably just very much
just be like you know not today it's happening
then depending on where they were in terms of
their level of understanding it could be that
we do a calendar to cross down to whatever day
it's coming maybe giving them something you know
like for example if it was forest school and
we were really struggling i'd be like what is
it that they really like at forest school is
it the fact that's the leaves is it the twigs
is it the walk can we go and go and get that
yeah and then literally go and grab some leaves
from you know some twigs and create a little
sensory bin and just say you know it's not happening
now but here's something you can have that's
related similar you know if they were like swimming
i might be like right well it's i definitely
can't bring a swimming pool but i can bring you
a sensory tray with water in and we can do that
instead and we can explore that instead and i
would also like I just think empathize with them.
I'm really sorry it's not a swimming day. Like
that must be really sad because I love swimming
too. And it's one of my favorite days as well,
but I'm really sorry it's not today, but it is
tomorrow or is on whatever day it might be. And
then just show them like, again, visual, show
them the visual because there's no point telling
the students or just go over their head if you're
not supporting it with visuals or whatever it
might be that there's their communication aid.
You've got to support it all around. It's got
to be that whole holistic approach of, right.
you're not just telling me and then just it's
gone it's like no let's validate it let's like
look that might make you feel sad you know sad
is blue it's okay like what can we do when we
feel sad we can maybe explore that in a trail
we can maybe have a look at our sensory box so
they they've got a sensory box where they go
in and they pick up some things that they they
know can help them when they're feeling these
ways um and also model it i think again i'd probably
go back to that i'd model it i'd sit with them
and just if it was a fidget toy that they picked
that was a pop i'd probably just sit there and
pop with them for a little bit and distraction
Yeah. And then we go into something else. And
then when it is the swimming day, you can say,
it's a swimming day. Literally, they're so excited
for them. Yeah. I love that because it's being
curious. It's showing that you're understanding
and validating their needs. It's going visual
first. I mean, they're still going to feel sad
about it. You're not stopping. You're not. stopping
saying don't be sad we can just be sad together
that it's not a swimming day it's validating
isn't it yeah i think validating is so important
like i think that you know we do a daily check
-in or do we do it twice a day so go around and
i sing to them good morning or good afternoon
and then we say how we're feeling and adults
again modeling i do it Did my team do it? Were
you a model? And we're all honest. Like if someone
in my team or I'm feeling tired, we're like,
today I'm feeling tired or today I'm feeling
sad or today I'm feeling worried. And we sit
and we validate it. It's important as us. We
can't just be happy and sad. That's not the only
emotions. We're trying to help our children to
understand those other emotions. We can't also
just be like, yep, happy, sad. So I think that's
really important. I think like when my children
pick like other emotions, you know. pain worried
it's like i can't really feel that way like let's
get out our other visuals like is there something
that you can tell me that is hurting is there
something you can point to you know it makes
it meaningful doesn't it meaningful conversation
then yeah absolutely rather than just okay move
on so now if you have you noticed this that when
we're doing our check -ins our staff check -ins
i haven't realized i'm feeling a certain way
until i check in i'm just modeling but then i'm
thinking actually, no, I am feeling really anxious
today or I'm feeling really fidgety today. And
I wouldn't have, I'd have just pushed it down
and got on. And then just sitting with that in
myself is being really helpful. It's really vulnerable
as well. Like, you know, we get our children
to say how they're feeling. That is a massive
vulnerability, isn't it? To go, oh, I actually
like today, I don't. I think I do feel a bit
worried today. Like, you know, I do actually
feel really kind of tired and sad and that's,
you know, it's not making me feel my best or
whatever it might be. And it's just really important
that you just go, yeah, I can see that emotion.
And also, again, it just helps to set you up
for the day. You know, if my students check in
and the majority of them or even some of them
are feeling a different emotion, just go, right,
we're going to just do something a little bit,
like slightly different. We're going to go for
a little movement break outside first or we're
going to... mix things up on the timetable a
little bit because I hear you and if you're feeling
sad and tired going and doing x y and z isn't
going to make you feel any better because I know
that you don't really particularly like those
things I think that's a really good point because
I think so many teachers are including feelings
into their classroom but what is it actually
communicating what is it at what then happens
needs to change and I don't think we've done
that actually I often use these podcasts to improve
my own practice it's all good to experts And
I think that's going to be my homework for this
week as we come to a close, actually, is communication
for purpose. So like you said, with the sensory
stories, we adapt everything else. Of course,
we've got to adapt the sensory story. And I think
that's really lovely what you said about the
feelings as well, that yes, okay, we all mention
the feelings and we put our feelings on the box.
We might choose something. from that particular
color and use it but yeah of course it has to
inform the rest of the day of course it has to
inform at least the next half an hour of what
you're going to do yeah and adaptation i think
is the word that's come from this podcast actually
is is just to be a man yeah but be adaptable
yeah it's really great be okay to to mix it up
and change that plan you know it's not not failure
on you as an educator to go whoa we didn't do
this because we've done this instead because
actually i'm putting the needs of my children
first and i hear them and even if it's just some
of them are saying to me that they're not feeling
happy or they've not or they're feeling worried
or they're feeling anxious whatever it might
be we're rolling with it because primarily we
are here for the children and it's really important
that the children's needs are met first before
anything else absolutely and if you're starting
your day with that knowledge then if something
happens later down the line your first thought
isn't why are they doing that it's oh they're
feeling wobbly today or oh they're feeling they're
feeling tired today it's really going to help
isn't it your understanding as to the why of
why they're doing these certain things yeah yeah
yeah no definitely i love that what an amazing
place to finish thank you so much ellie yeah
that was amazing thank you where can people find
you on socials find me on instagram or tiktok
my name is the sen teacher 94 so yeah have a
have a little follow of me over there and then
i'll share like different practices i do but
also some fun videos as well really good it's
really great and yeah she's a really great person
to follow and even if you haven't got a class
like ellie's i still feel like you'll get lots
of ideas from there this is all adaptable and
good autism practice is just good practice so
if you are a mainstream primary school teacher
i'm sure you'll be able to take something from
it too thank you so much for joining me ellie
thank you so much for having me it was amazing
thank you thanks