WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:27.530 --> 00:00:29.870 Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory 00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:33.409 Classroom podcast. Today I am joined by Richard, 00:00:33.509 --> 00:00:36.869 Supporting Service for Parents, to support with 00:00:36.869 --> 00:00:40.149 the process, the paperwork, the understanding 00:00:40.149 --> 00:00:43.649 of everything to do with SEN as far as I can 00:00:43.649 --> 00:00:47.789 see from your website. Hello Richard. Hello Jordan, 00:00:47.909 --> 00:00:50.109 thank you for having us. You are so welcome. 00:00:50.189 --> 00:00:52.590 When your team reached out I was so pleased because... 00:00:52.829 --> 00:00:56.409 I think about 99 % of messages I get is about 00:00:56.409 --> 00:01:02.869 the EHCP process or diagnosis. It's a whole new 00:01:02.869 --> 00:01:06.870 world and lots of parents are kind of brought 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:09.189 into this world and jumped in the deep end and 00:01:09.189 --> 00:01:11.870 all these acronyms and everything. It's really 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:16.670 confusing. It's quite terrifying. Absolutely. 00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:20.859 And all this medical jargon. all these words 00:01:20.859 --> 00:01:23.280 and therapists all of a sudden included or if 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.980 you're lucky they're included i suppose um and 00:01:25.980 --> 00:01:28.819 it can be very overwhelming and that kind of 00:01:28.819 --> 00:01:32.299 doesn't seem to stop either i've got uh parents 00:01:32.299 --> 00:01:36.760 of teenagers uh and they're still navigating 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:39.180 the system and the process and learning things 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:42.120 yeah it's it's one of those incredibly frustrating 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.739 situations where you think just just because 00:01:45.739 --> 00:01:49.239 you've been successful with getting an assessment 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.060 and getting the HCP you almost think that that's 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:56.019 it it's done and sadly that is just so far from 00:01:56.019 --> 00:01:58.959 the truth in so many instances and there's another 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.500 battle to be done and now a transition and an 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:04.420 annual review and it's yeah it's it's so overwhelming 00:02:04.420 --> 00:02:07.420 for so many people who had no idea that they 00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:10.419 were about to embark on this level of a journey 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:14.180 in the battle absolutely so let's just talk about 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:19.199 SOS SEN and what you offer parents So we are 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.860 a charity that's been running for over 20 years. 00:02:24.259 --> 00:02:26.340 Primarily it was set up in Richmond to support 00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:29.960 a school there, but it's grown. The variety of 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.199 services that we offer, we've got a number of 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:36.699 services for free. So we have a free... helpline 00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:38.840 where people can call and speak to one of our 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:42.080 advisors for sort of 20 30 minutes and ask the 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.659 next next steps guidance we have several advice 00:02:45.659 --> 00:02:49.400 centers which are walk -in centers where people 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.240 can come along bring their paperwork talk to 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.840 us about their situations again they'll be with 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.860 an advisor for 30 40 minutes talk through their 00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:00.580 case and find out their next steps again that's 00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:05.159 free And then we offer document writing services. 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:10.199 So we've talked about EHCPs. When those come 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:14.620 through to you, we have identified that local 00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:17.199 authorities, intentionally or unintentionally, 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:19.840 they will put some language and wording in there 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:26.180 that isn't actually helpful or isn't going to 00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:29.400 hold anyone to account. and what our team does 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:31.919 is we will go through that report and we will 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.580 pick out all of that sort of unhelpful language 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:37.400 and we will help to rewrite that EHCP so as it 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:41.120 is geared up to ensure that that child gets equitable 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:45.759 education. There are a number of reasons why 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.159 local authorities will either refuse to assess 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:54.099 or refuse to issue EHCPs and blockages in place 00:03:54.099 --> 00:03:57.879 and parents then need to appeal those decisions 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:00.639 so we will help them to write grounds for appeals 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:03.900 and our team will support them in doing that 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:07.759 the other thing that we do as well is pre -action 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.780 protocol letters or judicial review letters so 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:14.719 if a local authority are not quite acting lawfully 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:19.319 our team will put letters together that have 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:24.519 been created by our legal officer Linda Wright, 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.920 who's got over 25 years of SEND law experience, 00:04:28.300 --> 00:04:31.480 she will write those letters that we can send 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:33.459 across to the local authorities and just remind 00:04:33.459 --> 00:04:37.720 them of their lawful duties. We've found thus 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:41.420 far in the last year that's had a 97 % success 00:04:41.420 --> 00:04:43.879 rate at getting local authorities to overturn 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:49.019 decisions. Wow. They're kind of a good selection 00:04:49.019 --> 00:04:51.040 of things that we do. The bulk of what we're 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.800 looking to do is to empower families so as they 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.540 can navigate this really complicated system and 00:04:57.540 --> 00:04:59.660 ensure that all children and young people get 00:04:59.660 --> 00:05:03.519 equitable education. That's our open plan. Absolutely. 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.180 And in the world as it should be. charities like 00:05:07.180 --> 00:05:09.680 yours shouldn't have to exist right every child 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.660 should be in education they should be getting 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:15.819 appropriate and suitable education they should 00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:18.579 have their legal needs and educational needs 00:05:18.579 --> 00:05:22.019 and health needs met you know so many jobs that 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:24.680 charities do should just be being done right 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.339 it's it's it breaks my heart that how needed 00:05:27.339 --> 00:05:30.079 and your charity is my goodness is it needed 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.339 um yeah it kind of breaks my heart that it even 00:05:33.339 --> 00:05:36.689 should exist really I couldn't agree more. And 00:05:36.689 --> 00:05:40.069 I often say it's one of the weirdest sensations 00:05:40.069 --> 00:05:43.209 to lead an organisation like this because for 00:05:43.209 --> 00:05:47.829 a measure of success, what I really want is my 00:05:47.829 --> 00:05:50.310 success is that our charity has to close down 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:52.529 because we're not needed anymore, which is the 00:05:52.529 --> 00:05:55.990 weirdest thing to say. But actually, I think 00:05:55.990 --> 00:05:58.050 it's horrific that a charity like ours has to 00:05:58.050 --> 00:06:01.930 exist. I'm pleased that we are there and that 00:06:01.930 --> 00:06:04.069 we can help and that we will continue to help. 00:06:04.649 --> 00:06:07.029 But I think it's dreadful that we have to even 00:06:07.029 --> 00:06:11.290 exist in order to do it. It's a shame. Yeah, 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:14.449 absolutely. So you were talking about the free 00:06:14.449 --> 00:06:17.670 call -ins. What kind of questions are you regularly 00:06:17.670 --> 00:06:20.930 getting from, is it mainly parents? It's largely 00:06:20.930 --> 00:06:23.430 sort of parents and carers. From time to time 00:06:23.430 --> 00:06:25.730 we'll get calls from SENCOs or other professionals 00:06:25.730 --> 00:06:30.050 just saying, I don't know how, what do I need 00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:32.610 to do to support this family or how can I navigate 00:06:32.610 --> 00:06:36.199 them to you? But largely it's parents and carers. 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.540 And what we tend to find is a lot of the calls 00:06:41.540 --> 00:06:44.399 are around the EHCPs. It's very much a case of 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:48.519 my child has these needs and I need to get the 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:51.379 support in place, but how do I do that? And often 00:06:51.379 --> 00:06:55.839 we are saying, do they have an EHCP? And we hear 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.579 so many people say, no, the school has told us 00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:00.300 that we don't need one or that we don't qualify 00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:06.639 for one. the legal test to qualify for any hcp 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.779 is actually it's a really i'm going to say it's 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:15.160 a low bar um in in the sense of may this child 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.199 have any special educational needs and may they 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.480 benefit from any additional support class if 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:23.879 if if the answers to those two things is yes 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:29.019 qualify for any hdp so when we hear schools and 00:07:29.019 --> 00:07:30.699 local authorities saying no they don't qualify 00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:33.879 you know Have they put any different provision 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:37.180 in place? Yes. Does your child have any additional 00:07:37.180 --> 00:07:40.939 needs? Yes. Didn't he ask for yes? And it's not 00:07:40.939 --> 00:07:43.100 even diagnose additional needs, is it? I know 00:07:43.100 --> 00:07:47.519 you can have an EHCP without a diagnosis, can't 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:49.480 you? I think that's often... a misconception 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:52.199 is oh but we're on the pathway for say an autism 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.360 diagnosis it's going to take four years so we 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:56.160 can't get an ehcp until then and that's just 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:59.680 not the case is it it's not no and and you don't 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.879 need that formal diagnosis because again it's 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:03.600 it's the language that's used within the law 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.279 may the child have um any additional needs or 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:13.500 special educational needs it does not state does 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:17.569 this child have or what what um especially educational 00:08:17.569 --> 00:08:21.009 needs as a child have so it's really really vague 00:08:21.009 --> 00:08:24.250 for the right reasons um so yeah they don't need 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:27.230 the formal diagnosis obviously that helps but 00:08:27.230 --> 00:08:29.529 the local authorities should be putting provisions 00:08:29.529 --> 00:08:31.629 in place to do their own assessments to help 00:08:31.629 --> 00:08:38.009 families with that as well should yes northerly 00:08:38.009 --> 00:08:40.809 they absolutely should um and that's what we 00:08:40.809 --> 00:08:43.429 have to remind them of yeah yeah and they are 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:47.269 over run under funded under staff as well you're 00:08:47.269 --> 00:08:49.289 right but i know that's not an excuse and they 00:08:49.289 --> 00:08:52.129 need to do their legal obligation just as we 00:08:52.129 --> 00:08:56.529 all do um but yeah that is why isn't it um and 00:08:56.529 --> 00:08:58.970 it's not just schools that can apply for ehc 00:08:58.970 --> 00:09:02.210 please is it parents can put in that initial 00:09:02.210 --> 00:09:07.220 referral right yeah absolutely um so To apply 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:10.320 for any HCP, it can be either the school or the 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.139 parent. There are merits to doing it both ways. 00:09:14.659 --> 00:09:18.340 You tend to find that if you are doing it through 00:09:18.340 --> 00:09:20.039 the school, then you've got a bit more backing 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.440 and the local authority might pay more attention. 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:26.600 But each local authority is different. But yeah, 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:28.700 if you're finding that your school isn't prepared 00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:32.179 to submit that paperwork and put that through, 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:34.679 then absolutely parents can do that independently. 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:38.179 Maybe a little bit. Maybe that's when your support 00:09:38.179 --> 00:09:40.919 comes in as well. Maybe it needs to be worded 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.740 in a maybe slightly different way or you to add 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:47.360 certain things in there. Yeah, yeah. And we've 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:54.600 got a whole backlog of webinars. And in there, 00:09:54.700 --> 00:09:57.360 we did a webinar on, I think it's called the 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.460 Send 35 form, which is essentially applying for 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:04.759 those things. I don't know if that's applying 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:07.179 for the tribunal. I'm not the one who's legally 00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:12.019 trained. But we've done an awful lot of support 00:10:12.019 --> 00:10:15.700 on our webinars on how to apply for AHCPs, what 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:17.840 should it look like, how to apply to tribunal. 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:21.179 All of those things are there to just, again, 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.740 further empower the families. I can imagine that's 00:10:24.740 --> 00:10:26.980 really helpful because even when you get the 00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:31.700 AHCP, it's such a massive... of lots and lots 00:10:31.700 --> 00:10:33.320 of different words, like I said at the beginning, 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:36.200 lots of different acronyms, and it's the legal 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:38.539 requirements. As a parent, I can imagine, and 00:10:38.539 --> 00:10:40.100 as a teacher, I certainly feel it, you want to 00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:42.759 get it right. But when you've got 15 days to 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:45.000 check that it's all right, it can be a real huge 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.539 pressure and lots of things can get missed. Are 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:50.820 there any things that you particularly, any areas 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:53.659 of the EHCP that you would particularly focus 00:10:53.659 --> 00:10:57.179 on or you would ensure that we had in place? 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.500 Or is it kind of different for every child? I 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:02.480 think it's very, very different for every child. 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:08.080 And I think it's important that within that plan, 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:12.600 all of the needs are identified, clearly identified. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:16.580 And then any provisions that are being put in 00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:19.919 place need to be, essentially they need to follow 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.700 the SMART model and they need to be... incredibly 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:26.919 specific we see an awful lot of times in ehcps 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:31.039 there's very vague language used so um this child 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.700 may benefit from a one -to -one they go well 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.820 sure they may yeah because they don't want to 00:11:38.820 --> 00:11:42.240 commit because they don't want to commit to yeah 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.519 because any if you say some do you need something 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.279 in the ehcp then it's a legal obligation is that 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.889 is that accurate essentially yeah it means that 00:11:52.889 --> 00:11:55.029 you can then hold the score to account and say 00:11:55.029 --> 00:11:57.710 because again what we would do is we would then 00:11:57.710 --> 00:12:01.830 say how many hours one -to -one does this child 00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:05.429 need and who is going to be that one -to -one 00:12:05.429 --> 00:12:11.809 and then it would be how many hours are they 00:12:11.809 --> 00:12:14.289 putting in place who is managing that who's training 00:12:14.289 --> 00:12:16.769 it we made that very very specific and we put 00:12:16.769 --> 00:12:19.429 all of those things in place and essentially 00:12:19.429 --> 00:12:22.809 we we help families to make sure that language 00:12:22.809 --> 00:12:24.909 is there so as they can then hold the school 00:12:24.909 --> 00:12:27.429 to account and say, well, hold on, you've told 00:12:27.429 --> 00:12:30.070 me that for 10 hours a week, my child's going 00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:33.009 to get one -to -one by a trained autism friendly 00:12:33.009 --> 00:12:36.009 specialist. And I know that last week they only 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:38.009 had five hours and that's consistent what's going 00:12:38.009 --> 00:12:40.470 on. It means that they can then hold the school 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:44.590 to account for those things. Absolutely. So for 00:12:44.590 --> 00:12:45.990 those that are listening that haven't heard of 00:12:45.990 --> 00:12:48.789 smart targets before, if they need to be specific. 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.019 They need to be measurable. They need to be achievable. 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.360 They need to be realistic and they need to be 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.740 timed. So by timed, it means to be given to a 00:12:57.740 --> 00:12:59.879 certain date. So by the time they're in year 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.559 one or by the time they leave key stage two or 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.440 next term, whatever it is, they need to be timed. 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:08.940 And that's what a smart target is. And you're 00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.620 absolutely right. It keeps the school and it 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:14.039 keeps the county and it keeps the young person 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.080 and the parents all accountable, doesn't it? 00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:19.820 To achieving these things. And I think actually 00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:22.179 it's exactly that. It keeps everyone to account 00:13:22.179 --> 00:13:24.740 and it gives everyone a fair and reasonable understanding 00:13:24.740 --> 00:13:27.860 of what are we looking for? What are we hoping 00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:31.820 to achieve from doing this? And if we review 00:13:31.820 --> 00:13:34.899 this next year and no progress has been made, 00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:37.340 but all of the provisions have been put in place, 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.330 well, then we know. We did all of those things 00:13:40.330 --> 00:13:42.509 right, but that didn't get the desired outcome. 00:13:42.629 --> 00:13:45.029 So what needs to change? And it just helps us 00:13:45.029 --> 00:13:48.509 to kind of log that and move those thoughts forward. 00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:51.129 In that view, actually, sometimes as a teacher, 00:13:51.149 --> 00:13:53.330 because I'm somebody that writes the EHCP, so 00:13:53.330 --> 00:13:56.629 I'm kind of on the other side of it. And sometimes 00:13:56.629 --> 00:14:00.970 my young people don't achieve the target in the 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:03.750 given time, but all the provision is in place. 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:06.730 And sometimes it is a bit of guesswork as to 00:14:06.730 --> 00:14:10.450 how... far they can get in that given time frame 00:14:10.450 --> 00:14:12.610 I've also had children that have way out past 00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:14.669 it and you look back and think why did I write 00:14:14.669 --> 00:14:18.029 that target you're way ahead so it is estimate 00:14:18.029 --> 00:14:22.250 isn't it and and we can only guess and make assumptions 00:14:22.250 --> 00:14:24.470 with the team around the child with the parents 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:26.990 with the therapist whoever's involved it's a 00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:30.850 it's a best guess as to by the time they're in 00:14:30.850 --> 00:14:34.480 this with all this support in place we hope or 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:39.779 we believe that they could achieve this, isn't 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:43.879 it? And I think it's not being afraid to admit 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.620 actually that progress wasn't made, but the provision 00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:51.720 was in place. Essentially, we have to accept 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:57.539 there is no box tick here. It's, oh, this young 00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.960 person has autism and that young person has autism. 00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:02.120 That does not mean that those two people are 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.019 going to... followed the exact same path in their 00:15:05.019 --> 00:15:08.100 education but that's the same for any human being 00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:13.220 right we we all have unique um elements and factors 00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:16.179 coming into our lives and we all learn differently 00:15:16.179 --> 00:15:19.259 so i think you're absolutely right you you could 00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:22.120 look at that child and go based on the assessment 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.940 based on my understanding based on my skills 00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:27.679 i believe if we put these things in place we 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.960 will be able to achieve these things then reflecting 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.759 and saying, we did put those things in place 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:36.519 and it didn't work. I think we need to feel safe 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.379 and confident that that can happen. And a lot 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:43.379 of the work that we do with parents is about 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:45.940 building that relationship with school, not kind 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:49.799 of marching through the doors and banging on 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:51.419 the doors and saying, you know, you've messed 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:54.039 up. You need to have a good relationship with 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.320 schools and say, you know, what else can we do? 00:15:56.970 --> 00:15:58.850 Are there any other training sessions? Are there 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.549 any other sort of models that we can adopt? All 00:16:01.549 --> 00:16:04.590 things like that to kind of acknowledge that 00:16:04.590 --> 00:16:07.070 if everyone's pulling in the right direction, 00:16:07.169 --> 00:16:09.370 that's when we'll see progress for that child. 00:16:09.649 --> 00:16:12.590 Yeah, and maybe use the EHCP review as an opportunity 00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:15.330 to be curious about why that wasn't achieved. 00:16:15.429 --> 00:16:17.110 Was it achievable in the first place? Maybe it 00:16:17.110 --> 00:16:20.879 wasn't a smart target. um maybe uh they've had 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:24.539 lots of medication complications um or hospital 00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:27.120 visits or maybe they've had about sickness or 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.059 maybe they've had a change in key worker like 00:16:29.059 --> 00:16:31.259 there's lots of different reasons why a child 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:32.720 might not achieve a target it's really important 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:34.320 to put that on there as well isn't it because 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.240 that gives a real great reflection in the ehcp 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.600 review as you're reviewing it to be curious why 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.679 why didn't they or why did they completely like 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.320 blow this target out of the water you know Were 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.139 we being too limited in our expectations of this 00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:54.200 child and to reflect on that as well? Yeah, absolutely. 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.720 And I think that's beauty and that's how it should 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.639 be. We should always be curious about what's 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.400 happening for our children, what they need, what's 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.839 working, what's not working. And if we kind of 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.299 have that baseline of where they're at and then 00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:15.960 when things aren't there, what's happening? You 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.359 know, how can we help? And I noticed that when 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.900 it comes to the afternoon sessions, that's when 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:24.279 they're struggling to focus. So what's happened 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:28.339 between now and then? And what's something that 00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:31.039 we might be able to put in place to support them? 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:35.539 And I think, you know, we need to accept and 00:17:35.539 --> 00:17:39.740 we need to acknowledge and give credit to teachers 00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:44.720 as well because they're in a room with 30 children. 00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:51.900 33 sometimes by themselves yeah um and they are 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:57.640 they are dealing with 30 plus individuals all 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.259 with personalities all with home lives all with 00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:03.960 emotional sort of mental health and physical 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.279 health like all of those needs are there and 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:09.220 they're coming into that room to to ask a teacher 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:11.400 even if that teacher has an additional support 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.250 in the room to ask that teacher to have an acute 00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:16.650 awareness of every single one of those people 00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:21.049 and to constantly know every single thing and 00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:24.549 get every every single thing right that's a big 00:18:24.549 --> 00:18:28.130 ask okay and we have to acknowledge that sometimes 00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:32.849 teachers are allowed to be human too they're 00:18:32.849 --> 00:18:35.289 allowed to make those errors but again we we 00:18:35.289 --> 00:18:37.609 go back to what support is in place and is everyone 00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:39.950 trying to pull together for the right sort of 00:18:39.950 --> 00:18:43.609 end result i think lots of teachers love their 00:18:43.609 --> 00:18:45.809 pupils and love the job and definitely want to 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:47.349 do what's best for their pupils I don't think 00:18:47.349 --> 00:18:50.930 there are many teachers that don't go into this 00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:53.369 job for the right reasons absolutely but also 00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:55.289 there's very little training for us I don't think 00:18:55.289 --> 00:18:57.970 parents understand that I was so I'm a special 00:18:57.970 --> 00:18:59.950 education teacher now but I was primary school 00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:03.210 teacher trained and we didn't talk about EHCPs 00:19:03.210 --> 00:19:06.430 in my training we didn't talk about special education 00:19:06.430 --> 00:19:09.509 in my training we spoke about dyslexia So I just 00:19:09.509 --> 00:19:12.049 want parents to know as well that teachers are 00:19:12.049 --> 00:19:14.269 very much relying on the SENCO. And the SENCO 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:17.609 is very much relying on their little training. 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:21.329 Don't assume that the teachers just know this 00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:22.750 stuff and are taught this stuff and are choosing 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:25.710 not to do it. They might genuinely not know. 00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:27.990 And that's not through lack of care. It's just 00:19:27.990 --> 00:19:32.150 through lack of training, really. The world of 00:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.710 disability and special educational needs is constantly 00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:38.470 growing and evolving. I've worked within the 00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:41.809 world of special educational needs. I've worked 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:46.490 within that field within the last 10 to 12 years. 00:19:47.809 --> 00:19:51.549 It's only when I started working at SOS SEN that 00:19:51.549 --> 00:19:55.190 I started to learn a lot more about neurodiversity. 00:19:56.890 --> 00:19:59.450 I'd never, and this isn't a special education, 00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:02.809 I'd never heard of the term aotus education other 00:20:02.809 --> 00:20:05.750 than at school. And I was like, okay, what is 00:20:05.750 --> 00:20:10.230 this? What do I need to learn? We are now identifying 00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:15.509 so many forms of neurodiversity and we're celebrating 00:20:15.509 --> 00:20:19.109 that as we should. We are also finding that a 00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:22.549 lot of adults are late diagnosed with neurodiversity 00:20:22.549 --> 00:20:27.349 and they are looking going, actually. i've navigated 00:20:27.349 --> 00:20:30.150 the system but here's some of those things so 00:20:30.150 --> 00:20:31.970 we are constantly learning constantly evolving 00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:35.049 and i think again if we are curious about that 00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:40.470 and feel safe to get it wrong because as we are 00:20:40.470 --> 00:20:43.109 learning we're going to use language that isn't 00:20:43.109 --> 00:20:46.529 isn't hasn't quite landed and it's kind of evolving 00:20:46.529 --> 00:20:49.670 um i know certainly with my work there's a number 00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:52.940 of um there's a number within my team that um 00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:57.039 self -identify um and diagnosis of neurodiversity 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.380 and i'm learning about those things and i'm learning 00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:02.859 what measures i can put in place to make reasonable 00:21:02.859 --> 00:21:06.279 adjustments to support them right and i think 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.279 we need to feel safe to be able to do that and 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.359 to learn and to ask those questions and to be 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.579 able to and i think continue to build that relationship 00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:19.680 between school and and teacher and and parent 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:24.000 and say actually I'm really curious about autism. 00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:26.539 I've never experienced autism before. Could you 00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:29.220 come and actually talk to me about it? I'd love 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:32.440 to learn. I know certainly from my own personal 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.319 experiences, I'm an adoptive parent. And quite 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.240 often we would have to go into the schools and 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.180 spend time with the teachers and say, I'd like 00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:42.680 to talk to you about adoption. I'd like to talk 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:44.839 to you about children in care and some of their 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:49.369 own sort of... challenges difficulties or traumas 00:21:49.369 --> 00:21:51.509 that may affect their their behavior in the classroom 00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:54.230 i think that's wonderful because the parents 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:57.250 because it's an open safe conversation isn't 00:21:57.250 --> 00:21:59.829 it and ultimately as the parent you're not only 00:21:59.829 --> 00:22:02.450 supporting your own child in that class you're 00:22:02.450 --> 00:22:05.930 you're supporting all future children yeah that 00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:08.410 that teacher may that may come across i think 00:22:08.410 --> 00:22:11.430 that's a wonderful thing to do i i think so i 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:14.490 think the more that families can do that and 00:22:14.490 --> 00:22:16.670 they can get involved in their schools There 00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:19.710 were times even in our own journey where I met 00:22:19.710 --> 00:22:22.450 some teachers that were disengaged. They weren't 00:22:22.450 --> 00:22:24.869 interested in learning about adoption trauma 00:22:24.869 --> 00:22:27.809 and what that meant. And you understand, you 00:22:27.809 --> 00:22:30.109 get frustrated and you go, okay, that's not the 00:22:30.109 --> 00:22:32.950 one I'm going to win. But then other teachers 00:22:32.950 --> 00:22:38.549 welcomed us into the space and asked an abundance 00:22:38.549 --> 00:22:41.250 of questions. So when you're in that environment 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.089 and if you have that relationship, harbour it. 00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:46.839 and throw everything you've got at that relationship 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.559 because that's how you not only help your child, 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:51.779 but you help, like you say, Jordan, you're going 00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:56.119 to help generations of children. And those teachers 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.359 might then influence other teachers. And that's 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.779 how we grow. That's how we learn by just continuing 00:23:02.779 --> 00:23:08.279 to learn in our own sort of world what this means 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:10.400 and how it impacts us and how it impacts somebody 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.230 else. and trying as best as we can to understand 00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:15.309 the empathy of how is this going to feel for 00:23:15.309 --> 00:23:19.289 that child um and they're not they're not just 00:23:19.289 --> 00:23:21.849 being difficult they're not they're not just 00:23:21.849 --> 00:23:25.509 trying to misbehave just because isn't that fun 00:23:25.509 --> 00:23:29.369 i mean i wish i was wearing yesterday yesterday 00:23:29.369 --> 00:23:32.329 i was wearing my no such thing as naughty jumper 00:23:32.329 --> 00:23:35.049 um which would have been quite good in this conversation 00:23:35.049 --> 00:23:37.130 because there absolutely is no such thing as 00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:40.049 naughty have you as a charity noticed an increase 00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:44.210 in Because everyone's talking about, you know, 00:23:44.289 --> 00:23:47.529 over -diagnosis. Everyone's autistic these days, 00:23:47.529 --> 00:23:49.670 and I'm sure you can guess what I think about 00:23:49.670 --> 00:23:53.170 that. But have you noticed as a charity an increase 00:23:53.170 --> 00:23:58.690 in this need? So the year prior to me coming 00:23:58.690 --> 00:24:03.509 on board, so between 22 to 23, our charity supported 00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:08.660 around about 1 ,200 families. The last financial 00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:12.460 year, so between 23 to 24, that went up to 3 00:24:12.460 --> 00:24:16.759 ,400 families that we supported. This year alone, 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:22.519 we're already on target to help 5 ,200. Yeah, 00:24:22.579 --> 00:24:28.359 so we're seeing exponential growth in this. I 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.940 was going to say, what contributes towards that? 00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.519 Because I'm sure it's probably a few factors, 00:24:32.619 --> 00:24:36.339 isn't it? Yeah, I think it's a number of factors. 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.099 By and large, I think people's awareness is growing. 00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:45.240 I think people are starting to understand what 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.960 rights they have and they are talking more with 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:53.160 other families and saying, well, what is an EHCP? 00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:56.019 How do I get one? What's the purpose? What's 00:24:56.019 --> 00:24:59.359 the point? We are also, like I said earlier, 00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:04.279 we're finding more adults are becoming self -aware 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:07.619 of their own neurodiversity as a result. They 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:10.299 are then understanding that and saying, I wonder 00:25:10.299 --> 00:25:12.819 if my child might be struggling with school because 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:16.539 of X. So we've got a better global awareness 00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:21.319 of the various forms of neurodiversity. It's 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.019 not that we have more neurodiverse individuals 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:27.680 today than we did 10 years ago. It's that we 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.160 see those signs and understand what those behaviors 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:36.180 mean. And now we can go, right. If we put X, 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.019 Y, and Z in place, that's just going to make 00:25:38.019 --> 00:25:44.680 life a tiny bit easier. So, yeah, I think that's 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.240 a huge contributing factor. I think people are 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.700 just becoming so much more aware of a whole array 00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:54.359 of needs in themselves, in their young people, 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.599 and they are then speaking with others and forming 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:02.059 part of those communities. You could argue that 00:26:02.059 --> 00:26:05.000 this is one of the very few benefits of social 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.720 media where people are talking and we're actually 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.819 building communities where people can actually 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:14.160 share those behaviours and say, I'm seeing this 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.380 behaviour in my child and someone goes, me too. 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.980 Have you had this assessment? Have you checked 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:22.000 this? And we're just learning better and we're 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.900 learning what we can ask. Yeah, you get access 00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:26.160 to a whole world of therapists and special education 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.880 teachers and charities that are talking about 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:31.430 this stuff. And because of how the algorithm 00:26:31.430 --> 00:26:34.029 works, it kind of feeds it to the right people. 00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:39.109 And yeah, you can learn a lot, can't you? Oh, 00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:42.190 absolutely. And there's just a wealth of knowledge 00:26:42.190 --> 00:26:45.950 out there if you're prepared to kind of take 00:26:45.950 --> 00:26:48.890 the time to learn it. And now so many parents 00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:52.099 are. on knowing that they can do that and they 00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:54.420 know how to access it, which is fantastic. Yeah, 00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:56.779 and they're feeling empowered to question the 00:26:56.779 --> 00:26:58.640 system. I feel like maybe before, maybe even 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:02.000 just 10 years ago, it would be the teachers that 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.660 would approach the parents about their neurodiverse 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:08.140 children or children with a cognitive disability 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:10.619 or, you know, whatever it was. Whereas now I 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:12.660 feel like the tables have turned and it is very 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.519 often now parents that are approaching that conversation 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.400 initially, even sometimes pre -nursery saying, 00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:23.759 my child isn't meeting these steps or is doing 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.700 these things i think it might be might be this 00:27:27.700 --> 00:27:32.579 yeah absolutely and um and i think the relationship 00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:35.059 as well is changing between parent and school 00:27:35.059 --> 00:27:39.059 um you know i often talk about the first time 00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:42.140 i walked into our son's classroom i was like 00:27:42.140 --> 00:27:44.599 well the last time i was in the classroom i was 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.230 a pupil and the teacher was god and i wasn't 00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:50.490 allowed to question anything that they said and 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:52.569 it can feel quite intimidating when you disagree 00:27:52.569 --> 00:27:54.589 with this person because you're like oh it normally 00:27:54.589 --> 00:27:59.730 ends up in detention um so that relationship 00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:02.950 has got to change and you've also got to have 00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:05.970 that faith and trust in that system and then 00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:08.490 when you learn actually sometimes that doesn't 00:28:08.490 --> 00:28:13.589 quite come to fruition But you then learn that 00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:15.190 you've got to be that advocate for your child 00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:17.470 and you've got to fight for their rights, which 00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:21.750 you don't necessarily expect. Yeah. So again, 00:28:21.829 --> 00:28:23.329 I think that's changing. I think how parenting 00:28:23.329 --> 00:28:25.210 and teaching is going, I mean, all of childcare 00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:28.069 has developed lots in the last 10 to 20 years. 00:28:28.769 --> 00:28:32.029 It's very much not the adult's way is the right 00:28:32.029 --> 00:28:34.690 way and children sit and listen and, you know, 00:28:34.809 --> 00:28:37.869 they're vessels to be filled. It's not that. 00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:39.549 It's much more collaborative. It's much more 00:28:39.549 --> 00:28:43.990 child -led. awareness of emotion more emotionally 00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:47.170 intelligent teaching trauma -led teaching I'd 00:28:47.170 --> 00:28:50.190 like to hope anyway and I hope I think the teaching 00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:53.009 training is slowly catching up with that we were 00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:57.490 about five years ten years behind maybe but it 00:28:57.490 --> 00:28:59.250 certainly is how children are being brought up 00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:01.849 now isn't it is to be emotionally led child led 00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:04.509 we're much more aware of the impact on those 00:29:04.509 --> 00:29:07.450 early years now I would like to say as a as a 00:29:07.450 --> 00:29:09.230 whole this is a very sweeping statement but as 00:29:09.230 --> 00:29:12.049 a whole of we're much more aware than we were 00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:13.809 10 or 20 years ago. And that's going to have 00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:15.230 an impact on education, isn't it? It's going 00:29:15.230 --> 00:29:18.190 to have an impact on how parents are parenting 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:20.069 their children, therefore how they would like 00:29:20.069 --> 00:29:23.029 their children to be educated and all of that. 00:29:23.529 --> 00:29:26.130 I think you're absolutely right. And I think 00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:28.730 the more that we learn, the better informed that 00:29:28.730 --> 00:29:30.950 we become and the better practices that we start 00:29:30.950 --> 00:29:34.349 to put in place. Being the charity that we are, 00:29:34.569 --> 00:29:40.029 we have... We have just under 100 volunteers 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.269 working with us. A lot of those are SEM parents 00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:49.210 themselves. And a high portion of those volunteers 00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:53.009 also identify as having some form of special 00:29:53.009 --> 00:29:57.470 educational need themselves. As a charity, what 00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:00.789 I've done is I've taken the lead there to make 00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:04.410 sure that our environment is that of a... special 00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:07.250 educational needs friendly environment. So we've 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:10.230 changed a lot of our practices internally to 00:30:10.230 --> 00:30:12.210 make sure that all reasonable adjustments have 00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:16.549 been made to meet the needs of all individuals. 00:30:17.190 --> 00:30:20.170 As such, I'm having those conversations with 00:30:20.170 --> 00:30:24.869 my peers in other organisations. An example is 00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:28.349 when it comes to us interviewing anyone, I will 00:30:28.349 --> 00:30:30.849 send the interview questions in advance so that 00:30:30.849 --> 00:30:34.569 person can do some proper prep time. um and we 00:30:34.569 --> 00:30:37.089 get the best from them and it's coming coming 00:30:37.089 --> 00:30:39.289 out in research that for a neurodiverse individual 00:30:39.289 --> 00:30:42.569 that is the ideal way for them to go for an interview 00:30:42.569 --> 00:30:45.309 process as a result i'm starting to see my peers 00:30:45.309 --> 00:30:47.789 in other organizations following that pattern 00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:50.769 and doing those things so we're all growing we're 00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:53.730 all learning and we're all moving that way so 00:30:53.730 --> 00:30:56.970 absolutely i think you're right that as we learn 00:30:56.970 --> 00:31:00.109 so many more environments will be changing and 00:31:00.109 --> 00:31:04.680 we will just become We will become neurodiverse 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:08.519 friendly in all of the ways that we operate to 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.460 ensure that, because when I do that and it's 00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.599 helpful for someone with any form of neurodiversity. 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.480 It's not something that's then unhelpful for 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.500 a neurotypical person. It's the same as what 00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.220 we say, you know, if you are in a room and you 00:31:25.220 --> 00:31:27.220 are trauma -informed and you are putting trauma 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:30.519 -informed teaching in place, it's not that the 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:32.000 children who have not gone through trauma are 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.039 going, ah, well, I feel left out because you 00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.299 don't care about, like you care too much about 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:39.319 my emotional needs. Everyone benefits when we 00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:42.460 start to put those sort of checks and measures 00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:45.759 in place and that support in place. So, yeah, 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.319 I think it will be a ripple effect. I really 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.440 hope so. I really hope so. They're definitely 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.599 still, maybe I'm just in this bubble, like an 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.440 echo chamber, but it certainly feels like it's 00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.779 ramping up that everybody that is aware is kind 00:31:59.779 --> 00:32:02.900 of buzzing and it's all rippling out. It really 00:32:02.900 --> 00:32:07.200 does feel like change is happening, which is 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.539 incredibly exciting for me. So we've spoken a 00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:15.140 lot about the initial EHCP process as far as 00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:17.779 if they haven't got one. But of course, lots 00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:20.259 of parents listening to this will already have 00:32:20.259 --> 00:32:22.740 a child with an EHCP, but it doesn't stop, does 00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:26.140 it? It's still checking if it's accurate, relevant, 00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:29.599 legal requirement. I know we spoke about legal 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.609 requirements before. I meant to say that it's 00:32:32.609 --> 00:32:34.950 not a legal requirement that they meet the target. 00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:37.190 It's just a legal requirement that the provision 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:39.009 is in place in order to meet the target. I meant 00:32:39.009 --> 00:32:40.690 to say that earlier because I don't know if I 00:32:40.690 --> 00:32:43.809 made that clear. But also I noticed on your website 00:32:43.809 --> 00:32:47.109 that you do a lot around phase transfers, which 00:32:47.109 --> 00:32:53.329 is a huge thing in itself. Moving from early 00:32:53.329 --> 00:32:56.250 years to primary and primary to secondary and 00:32:56.250 --> 00:33:00.059 secondary. to adult learning and that often brings 00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:03.619 a lot of anxiety for families because they might 00:33:03.619 --> 00:33:05.579 have just felt like they've got everything right 00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:08.579 the child is settled i'm finally got this adult 00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:11.039 that understands my child my child is happy in 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.180 school we've fought all the fights and then they're 00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:16.160 year six and all of a sudden they've got or year 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:17.920 five actually they've got to apply for secondary 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:20.819 schools and yeah and yeah do you get a lot of 00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:24.839 parents at these stages uh yeah coming in contact 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:29.509 as well Yeah, so we find, in particular, we find 00:33:29.509 --> 00:33:34.869 the month of February after phase transfer for 00:33:34.869 --> 00:33:40.890 secondary, we see a huge spike in our helpline 00:33:40.890 --> 00:33:42.930 and our advice centre attendance and things like 00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:46.289 that because people are like, what do I do? How 00:33:46.289 --> 00:33:50.329 do I cope with this? And it's incredibly terrifying 00:33:50.329 --> 00:33:53.650 for so many families because, like you say, there's... 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.279 The child has become as settled as they can be. 00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.960 They've learnt the environment, they've learnt 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.279 the teacher, the teacher learnt them and they 00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:08.420 feel safe. And finally when they feel safe, all 00:34:08.420 --> 00:34:10.099 of the adults around them are going, brilliant, 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:14.820 now let's change it all again. It's like quadruple 00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:18.380 the size of people that are around you and instead 00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:20.639 of that one or two teachers, let's give you ten. 00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:25.150 Instead of that one teacher having 30 to 35 students, 00:34:25.329 --> 00:34:30.489 now that one teacher's got, what, 150 a day? 00:34:31.210 --> 00:34:34.650 Yeah. Everything is ramped up and amplified and 00:34:34.650 --> 00:34:37.090 the fear and the anxiety that follows that is 00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:43.070 huge. I think for any parent, let alone us here, 00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:46.210 for any parent, like year six to year seven transition 00:34:46.210 --> 00:34:48.320 is huge because... The parents don't walk them 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.440 to the gate. The parents aren't as involved with 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:53.400 the teacher. They don't get the same communication 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:58.340 level. There is higher expectation. So any child 00:34:58.340 --> 00:35:00.300 will be feeling those anxieties, but add special 00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:04.659 educational needs onto that. And anxiety naturally 00:35:04.659 --> 00:35:09.000 is just through the roof, isn't it? Absolutely. 00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:12.539 And you're right. You know, as soon as your child 00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:15.719 goes into senior school, you've got to take away 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:21.510 some of your, um sort of cotton wool you wrap 00:35:21.510 --> 00:35:23.670 them in um you've got to take away some of your 00:35:23.670 --> 00:35:26.369 sort of protective natures and you've got to 00:35:26.369 --> 00:35:29.349 let them flourish a little bit but if you've 00:35:29.349 --> 00:35:31.630 just navigated primary school and there's been 00:35:31.630 --> 00:35:36.210 anxiety fueled conversations week in week out 00:35:36.210 --> 00:35:38.989 all that that's going to do is just cause you 00:35:38.989 --> 00:35:42.050 more anxiety um and the pressure's on for everyone 00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:45.739 and i think i think that is felt um it's nerve 00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:47.699 -wracking it's nerve -wracking without scn and 00:35:47.699 --> 00:35:50.880 then you add scn in and everything gets amplified 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.500 again um and it's really really challenging um 00:35:54.500 --> 00:36:00.760 so yeah again that is about where possible building 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.960 strong solid relationships we often talk about 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.619 um find your tribe um find other people in similar 00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:12.849 situations to yourself Talk to your peers and 00:36:12.849 --> 00:36:15.349 speak to them. What are they doing that's working? 00:36:15.429 --> 00:36:18.010 What's helping? Are there any schools that could 00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:21.469 be recommended? Visiting those places and getting 00:36:21.469 --> 00:36:24.809 comfortable and talking to your child about what 00:36:24.809 --> 00:36:27.590 would work, what would make you feel safe? How 00:36:27.590 --> 00:36:32.010 can we help you to feel safe? Largely doing a 00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:34.809 lot of the same conversations and same battles 00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:38.469 that you've done previously. Being that huge 00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:42.380 advocate for... for your child basically and 00:36:42.380 --> 00:36:45.360 just finding any way possible to continue to 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.920 do that. Yeah, exactly. So if you have got the 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.760 school and you're looking to transition, I do 00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:54.840 something called a map meeting. So it's like 00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.949 a person around. a team around the child kind 00:36:57.949 --> 00:37:00.110 of meeting really and we talk about what the 00:37:00.110 --> 00:37:02.210 dream would be like what the dream transition 00:37:02.210 --> 00:37:04.489 would be like what the nightmare transition would 00:37:04.489 --> 00:37:06.670 be like and everything in between what can we 00:37:06.670 --> 00:37:08.550 do to make this more the dream than the nightmare 00:37:08.550 --> 00:37:10.289 what things need to be put in place and we do 00:37:10.289 --> 00:37:13.809 it around spring ahead of the july so that last 00:37:13.809 --> 00:37:16.789 term we can be fully prepared what does the child 00:37:16.789 --> 00:37:19.130 child need what does the parent need what do 00:37:19.130 --> 00:37:21.809 the next teachers need in order for this to be 00:37:21.809 --> 00:37:24.170 much more like the dream scenario that we all 00:37:24.170 --> 00:37:26.650 speak about than than the nightmare and we reflect 00:37:26.650 --> 00:37:29.789 on the past and and we like imagine the future 00:37:29.789 --> 00:37:32.409 and it's a really really lovely meeting and i 00:37:32.409 --> 00:37:34.489 find what happens and the children are invited 00:37:34.489 --> 00:37:37.619 as well if they want to be And what happens is 00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:40.380 the parents come with all this fear and anxiety 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.840 and they leave with a plan. It doesn't mean that 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.300 the anxiety is not there anymore. It just means 00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:47.119 they feel like maybe they've got a bit more control 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.760 over it. And that everybody, it is not just them 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:54.039 holding that. It's we've divvied out the jobs. 00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.460 We've got a plan in place and to hope for the 00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:00.199 best transition that we could possibly do. Because 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.480 it is a huge thing for the children. So that's 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.269 something that we do. And I implore you. training 00:38:07.269 --> 00:38:09.050 powerpoint all about it actually so if you want 00:38:09.050 --> 00:38:10.869 that and i'll include that in the notes below 00:38:10.869 --> 00:38:14.369 um all about that kind of meeting um because 00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:16.269 it's quite a structured meeting and it is it 00:38:16.269 --> 00:38:19.170 is incredibly helpful however i've also had some 00:38:19.170 --> 00:38:25.510 uh students who have received the not their choice 00:38:25.510 --> 00:38:27.909 school and not even one that they've even put 00:38:27.909 --> 00:38:30.739 as their top three schools and i've also had 00:38:30.739 --> 00:38:32.539 students that haven't had a school at all and 00:38:32.539 --> 00:38:34.260 now they're in their second year of tool waiting 00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:36.599 for their secondary school placement so i'm also 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:38.699 aware there are parents that also might want 00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:41.880 to come to you that don't even have a school 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.679 that they can be anxious about there just is 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:48.440 no answers um due to lack of provision or suitable 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:52.139 provision yeah do you get that in february as 00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:56.579 well Yeah, unfortunately we do. There's an awful 00:38:56.579 --> 00:38:58.300 lot of parents that come to our advice centres 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:00.440 and say, you know, my local authority have said 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:03.780 that in our area there are no places, there are 00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:09.360 no spaces at all for my child. We then offer 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:11.760 advice and guidance and I won't go into the advice 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.260 and guidance. No, but they can contact you if 00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:18.019 they need it. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, we 00:39:18.019 --> 00:39:20.659 talk them through. What are the next steps? How 00:39:20.659 --> 00:39:22.599 can they approach this and what can they do? 00:39:23.940 --> 00:39:28.519 What measures can they put in place to try and 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:33.599 get a provision set? But yeah, it's horrific. 00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:37.679 And again, it's just adding that anxiety and 00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:42.139 particularly for a young person that needs kind 00:39:42.139 --> 00:39:44.579 of those safe boundaries, those routines, that 00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:46.800 knowledge and that awareness to be able to feel 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:50.070 safe. and you're not even giving them a named 00:39:50.070 --> 00:39:56.230 school, it's quite terrifying. So, yeah, we offer 00:39:56.230 --> 00:39:59.010 our advice and guidance on how to navigate that 00:39:59.010 --> 00:40:01.550 and how to kind of push forward to get the right 00:40:01.550 --> 00:40:04.289 answers there. That's amazing. That's really 00:40:04.289 --> 00:40:06.369 helpful. And you mentioned that you have walk 00:40:06.369 --> 00:40:10.130 -in support. Is that based in a particular area 00:40:10.130 --> 00:40:18.440 of the UK or is that UK -wide? stepped into the 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:22.159 role, a lot of Sosson's work was quite South 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:28.659 -centric. So we had centres in Waterloo, we've 00:40:28.659 --> 00:40:35.260 got Aldershot, Worcester Park, the Richmond areas, 00:40:35.980 --> 00:40:40.179 Hampton Core. So it was very much kind of based 00:40:40.179 --> 00:40:44.139 there. My aim has been to expand our physical 00:40:44.139 --> 00:40:48.579 presence as a charity. So in the last year, we've 00:40:48.579 --> 00:40:55.320 opened centres in Birmingham, Bristol, Canterbury. 00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.780 Last week, we launched one in Essex in Chelmsford. 00:41:00.500 --> 00:41:02.719 Next week, we are launching one in Westminster. 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.639 The idea is for us to continue to grow our physical 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:11.199 presence because we know how important that is. 00:41:12.049 --> 00:41:14.929 If I could wave the magic wand, I would have 00:41:14.929 --> 00:41:17.829 an advice intro at least in every major city 00:41:17.829 --> 00:41:22.010 in England. But my team has told me I have to 00:41:22.010 --> 00:41:25.949 take it slow. One day it will be needed. Well, 00:41:25.969 --> 00:41:27.489 actually, hopefully it won't be needed is the 00:41:27.489 --> 00:41:29.909 plan. And then the second thing is maybe if it 00:41:29.909 --> 00:41:32.570 is needed, then hopefully you do that. So if 00:41:32.570 --> 00:41:34.989 people aren't near one, which is amazing that 00:41:34.989 --> 00:41:36.570 you have so many, but if people aren't near one, 00:41:36.710 --> 00:41:39.530 is it call support and online support that they 00:41:39.530 --> 00:41:44.619 can access? Yeah, so we've got the helpline service 00:41:44.619 --> 00:41:48.619 that they can call. Again, when I first took 00:41:48.619 --> 00:41:51.980 on the charity, we were open around about 10 00:41:51.980 --> 00:41:55.960 hours a week on average. We're now up to 35 hours 00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:58.500 a week during term time that we're open and that 00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:01.619 they can speak to an advisor. We often advise 00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:03.199 people to have a look at our Facebook because 00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:05.900 that will constantly promote when our opening 00:42:05.900 --> 00:42:09.780 hours are. And they can call our advice centres. 00:42:10.539 --> 00:42:12.900 our advice line and and they can get support 00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:17.219 through that and on our website as well you've 00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:21.340 also got email support so if you reached out 00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:24.579 to us you can present your sort of like your 00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:27.519 your challenge at the moment via email and then 00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.340 within a few days one of our advisors will come 00:42:31.340 --> 00:42:34.320 back to you on email so we've got a whole host 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:36.780 of other ways that people can access that support 00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:41.510 and there's no limit to it either um so if a 00:42:41.510 --> 00:42:45.489 family were to call the helpline today they could 00:42:45.489 --> 00:42:49.010 call it again tomorrow um and in a year and same 00:42:49.010 --> 00:42:52.429 as an advice center they can just like we we 00:42:52.429 --> 00:42:54.250 see some advice centers our family will come 00:42:54.250 --> 00:42:56.130 back month after month because they're just getting 00:42:56.130 --> 00:42:59.409 that next step and next step so there's there's 00:42:59.409 --> 00:43:01.550 no limit to to the support that we'll offer the 00:43:01.550 --> 00:43:04.050 only limitations we have is is volunteer availability 00:43:04.050 --> 00:43:08.159 basically yes of course How do you fund all this 00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:11.980 incredible work? How can we support it? But also, 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.739 how do you keep going? How do you keep developing? 00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:22.300 Yeah, it's a great question. So it's for a range 00:43:22.300 --> 00:43:26.199 of things. So for some of our services, so the 00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.840 document writing services, we do charge a small 00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:32.559 fee for those services. On average, our fees 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.119 are around about 10 % of what a solicitor would 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:41.719 charge for them. I must hasten to add, cost will 00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:44.199 never be a barrier. So if a family speaks to 00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:46.619 us and say, we can't afford this, we've got measures 00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:49.340 that we put in place. Cost won't ever stop a 00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:53.179 service. But we derive an income from that. We 00:43:53.179 --> 00:43:57.380 have a charity shop in Worcester Park that does 00:43:57.380 --> 00:44:01.150 really, really well. And that has sort of subsidised 00:44:01.150 --> 00:44:02.889 an awful lot of the free services that we've 00:44:02.889 --> 00:44:06.130 been able to offer. In addition to that, we've 00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:09.469 been very successful in winning some funding 00:44:09.469 --> 00:44:13.429 from a couple of really reputable organisations 00:44:13.429 --> 00:44:17.389 that have supported us and continue to support 00:44:17.389 --> 00:44:22.250 us and donations as well. So it's been through 00:44:22.250 --> 00:44:25.610 those sort of measures that's allowed us to operate 00:44:25.610 --> 00:44:32.079 and now grow. basically yeah amazing oh I'm so 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:34.039 pleased that we've spoken to you I can just feel 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:38.900 that parents I now have somewhere to send parents 00:44:38.900 --> 00:44:42.019 because as a teacher sometimes like I'm not their 00:44:42.019 --> 00:44:44.199 teacher in their class right so I can only say 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.380 what I would do which is really difficult then 00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.639 when I don't know the situation so to have a 00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.619 charity that I can forward them to to give them 00:44:51.619 --> 00:44:54.300 that bit of hope that bit of advice practical 00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:56.179 advice that can actually help me the face -to 00:44:56.179 --> 00:44:59.900 -face or on the phone is incredibly helpful brilliant 00:44:59.900 --> 00:45:03.739 yeah no and um anything that we can do we absolutely 00:45:03.739 --> 00:45:09.119 will we are in that beautiful stage as a charity 00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:13.500 where we are growing we are expanding but we 00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:17.199 are still at the right size where people have 00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:19.679 a direct line of communication straight through 00:45:20.349 --> 00:45:22.550 And I'm not saying this from a hierarchy perspective, 00:45:22.670 --> 00:45:24.630 but they have aligned to the chief exec of this 00:45:24.630 --> 00:45:27.269 charity where they can talk to me and I can have 00:45:27.269 --> 00:45:29.070 a real conversation and say, if that's not a 00:45:29.070 --> 00:45:32.090 service we offer, why not? What else can we do? 00:45:33.050 --> 00:45:35.190 And I think that that's that beautiful moment 00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:38.489 of we are always able to tap into what do our 00:45:38.489 --> 00:45:42.949 families need? My ethos since I've joined and 00:45:42.949 --> 00:45:47.329 that will always remain is all I care about is 00:45:47.329 --> 00:45:50.869 helping those families to help that child. So 00:45:50.869 --> 00:45:53.230 any decision that I'm making, any meeting that 00:45:53.230 --> 00:45:56.369 I'm going to, all I care about is, will this 00:45:56.369 --> 00:45:59.210 effectively help more families? If the answer 00:45:59.210 --> 00:46:02.469 is no, I'm not going to the meeting. I'm not 00:46:02.469 --> 00:46:04.289 interested. Yeah, it's a waste of time. Yeah. 00:46:04.389 --> 00:46:07.329 Absolutely. All that I want to do and all that 00:46:07.329 --> 00:46:10.449 the team I work with want to do is help more 00:46:10.449 --> 00:46:14.440 families. That's our measure of success. And 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:16.260 eventually the measure of success is that we 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:20.239 won't be needed. Yeah. For as long as we are 00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:23.119 needed, the measure of success is everyone that 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.360 needs our help, are we able to answer that call? 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.360 Can we help them? So anything that we can do, 00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:32.059 we want to do more of. It just sounds amazing. 00:46:32.179 --> 00:46:37.380 I'm so pleased that you exist. I really am. I 00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:39.239 usually use these podcasts. I usually give myself 00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:41.820 a bit of homework after these chats. And there 00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:43.820 was something really relevant that you said that 00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:47.559 kind of hit a chord with me as to that you've 00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:49.179 mentioned about the interview, you know, making 00:46:49.179 --> 00:46:50.940 them as successful as possible, sending the questions 00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:54.460 out ahead of time. And there's a lovely analogy, 00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:58.300 isn't there, of when there's snow and the caretaker 00:46:58.300 --> 00:47:01.849 wipes. clears the status first and then does 00:47:01.849 --> 00:47:03.610 the ramp where it actually if they did if they 00:47:03.610 --> 00:47:05.349 started with the ramp everyone could have still 00:47:05.349 --> 00:47:07.989 gotten in rather than waiting it's that beautiful 00:47:07.989 --> 00:47:10.530 analogy isn't it like start with accessible first 00:47:10.530 --> 00:47:12.630 and then everybody can access and that's definitely 00:47:12.630 --> 00:47:14.030 something i'm going to take with me this week 00:47:14.030 --> 00:47:16.710 making this podcast more accessible i easily 00:47:16.710 --> 00:47:18.630 could have sent you the questions ahead of time 00:47:18.630 --> 00:47:20.809 before this and you may not have needed it but 00:47:20.809 --> 00:47:23.030 you may have done and like you said it just makes 00:47:23.030 --> 00:47:24.889 for that better interview it makes for that better 00:47:24.889 --> 00:47:27.889 um experience so thank you for that for that 00:47:27.889 --> 00:47:30.659 beautiful reminder of Just because I'm not at 00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:32.579 school doesn't mean that this can't be accessible 00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:35.760 too. So yeah, I really appreciate that lovely 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.380 reminder. For people listening, where can they 00:47:38.380 --> 00:47:43.760 find you? Where can they find out more? The absolute 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.460 best place will be our website, which is S -O 00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:52.019 -S -S -E -N. dot org dot uk um we use it as an 00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:54.659 outwardly facing site so it's got a lot of information 00:47:54.659 --> 00:47:57.360 there's some booklets information packs that 00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.440 you can download and it will also list all of 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:03.260 the support that we offer so that's that's the 00:48:03.260 --> 00:48:06.280 best place to to reach out to us amazing i'll 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.579 leave that in the description as well um below 00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:10.840 so that uh you don't even need to look for it 00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:13.860 you can just tap on by and and find it and if 00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:15.820 you don't need it then maybe a colleague or a 00:48:15.820 --> 00:48:19.059 friend so maybe save this or save you know their 00:48:19.059 --> 00:48:21.380 account information so that you've got it so 00:48:21.380 --> 00:48:23.519 that inevitably when you have that conversation 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:25.519 with a friend on a bus or at the school gates 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.539 that you you've got something that you can help 00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:31.079 them with i think is probably good advice yep 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:34.179 that's great advice i love that thank you so 00:48:34.179 --> 00:48:36.320 much for joining me richard this has been incredibly 00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:39.579 helpful thank you so much for having us it's 00:48:39.579 --> 00:48:42.380 um it's so lovely to to be able to talk to you 00:48:42.380 --> 00:48:44.780 and to share our story with with your listeners 00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:49.300 as well so thanks for having us Thank you.