Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. Today I am joined by Dale
who is the CEO of Connecting Steps or B Squared.
It's the assessment software that I have used
for the last 15 years in my special education
teaching journey and so I thought it was really
important that we get him on today to explain
a little bit more about assessment. Hello Dale.
Hello. I did not know you'd been using it for
that long. Yeah so that's kind of one of my first
questions actually. How long have you been going?
So we've been going as a company. We started
in 97, paper format. And that was the old checklists
that people could mark things off. And then we
released our first version of the software in
2000. If you've been using it 15 years, you probably
had the version which was installed on a laptop.
Yeah, it would have been. Yeah, it was 2008 or
9, maybe even. Yeah. So that's the thing, I think.
Some of our competitors have been pretty stationary.
So that would have been version 3, installed
on a laptop or installed on a network, only accessible
in school. 2012, we released version 4, which
is when we started going internet -based, so
you could access it from home, which was a huge
improvement that people didn't have to be in
school. And also some schools had a B -squared
laptop, which used to get passed around. So who's
got a B -squared laptop? And then we released
version five three or four years ago. Can't quite
remember. It's been a blast since then. But that
has really just, the focus of version five is
making it faster and easier. So let's step it
back. People are thinking, what? What's B squared?
What is this? What is this? Maths talk? In your
own words, what is, I mean, big question, but
what is B squared? B squared is all about celebrating
the progress children with SEND make, however
small. That has always been our kind of mission
statement, our values, our ethos. We know children
with SEND make progress. Some systems can't show
it. We can always show it. And as we've kind
of evolved, we get to show it in different ways.
So as we go to school, it's like, oh yeah, but
you're not showing this or you can't do this.
That gets put in. So it's always, that's been
our thing. It's about showing that progress.
Yeah, that's something I've always noticed that
what I've worked with a huge range of learners
age two to teen, all sorts of diagnosis, all
sorts of abilities, right from early tracking
and, you know, subconscious movements really
is eye movements, yawning, reaching those kinds
of things to people that are readying for their
GCSEs. And I've had it useful for all of them.
those kind of children because of those small
steps because you can show the progress and break
it down really to you know what does maths look
like for a child that is working at three months
but is actually 11 what does it look like what
does money look like for them well it certainly
doesn't look like coins right but it kind of
like making choices it couldn't like interaction
and those kind of things and I think that's what
that's where b squared comes into its own doesn't
it It is, and I think because we don't just have
this is B squared, this is one flavor and one
option, because we have so many frameworks based
on ages, based on abilities, going, as you said,
early years, birth, we have engagement model
stuff all the way through to our steps for life,
which is employability skills, independent living
skills, all the functional skills, all that.
It covers a whole range and everything in between
that it's not you're trying to fit your child
into our system. We always talk about our system,
fits the child not you're not you're not trying
to get that child into a box which is the best
fit for them even though it doesn't really fit
we don't want to be like that we want to be able
to go actually this really works for your children
and it's not it's definitely not a one -size
-fits -all bits of software work for different
children in different ways overall the system
is the same but it's the content within each
framework which really differentiates each framework
I've definitely found that even in my own room,
I've got 10 learners and I use two of your frameworks
within my one classroom. And because it is one
umbrella system, that still is okay. That still
works really well. It's still one website. It
still looks the same. I just select a different
framework. Actually, no, I don't even select
a different framework. When I click the child,
that framework suitable for them is already linked
to them. And they're the boxes and they're the
statements that I use for that child. And they
can work through it that way. I've also got some
overlappy children. But in between two frameworks,
because as we know, our children are incredibly
spiky and in some areas, often PE or gross motor
skills, they are more able and maybe in social
interaction or independence, maybe they are less
able. You can kind of span across a couple of
frameworks as well. So again, that's working
really well because our children, like you say,
don't fit the mould. So we need the assessment
tool we use to be squishy, don't we? And that,
you mentioned the word spiky profile, which comes
up in our conversation with our schools a lot
because they know their children have spiky profiles,
not just their children with autism, but a wide
range of children have that spiky profile. But
what happens is they're limited by the kind of
the weakest area, the bit where they're struggling,
that's their assessment level. They just have
to work a level at a time. And we always say
to every school, work across multiple levels
in our system. The child is already working across
multiple levels. That decision was made by the
child and what they're doing, not you assessing.
And by assessing just one level at a time, you're
missing out and not celebrating what they can
do. You need to be able to really show that,
yes, they're struggling with, let's say, typical
autism, struggling with comprehension, but their
decoding is really good. You don't want to be
ignoring that decoding because they're struggling
with the comprehension. You still want to be
pushing that decoding on and celebrating that
progress they're making with decoding while you're
really supporting and working on that comprehension.
That's a great question, because that's something
I often struggle with is when I've still got
that they can't quite meet these social kind
of bits of this target or this statement. But
actually, they're way advanced in maybe their
expressive language, for example, in other areas.
Maybe they are really great at typing or something.
What percentage would you lose when you're asked
to show progress? Would you literally put both?
You know, what would you do? So there is a report
in our software called overall progress, which
is slightly complicated, but it gives you different
progress values. And one is a typical on their
current level. Where were they? Where are they?
And gives you a value. Maybe made 30 % progress.
The next one is what we call nonlinear progress,
which is a progress across multiple levels. And
it will give you a single value of actually,
although they made 20 % on their current level,
actually they made 50 % over three levels. That's
really helpful because, yeah, like I say, people
love numbers, especially when you're reviewing
IP targets or your EHCP targets. They love a
percentage. They love a level. And it's really
tricky to do. So if your website and your software
is able to give us that number that is so desired
and so needed in order to access the support
they need, then that's awesome, isn't it? And
then we can go on doing our jobs on the ground
rather than worrying about assessing and how
we're going to do that. And it really helps people
see when you see they just made 20 % on their
current level, but they've made 50 % over three
levels. It helps them see that actually by just
working on one level, you're not celebrating
all their progress. You're kind of ignoring the
stuff. It's not in the right box. Yeah. And also
it stops that linear, like always reaching higher,
higher, higher, which I feel like mainstream
schools get stuck in, you know, right. You've,
you've read those books now let's move on. Well,
actually I was quite enjoying that series of
books. Nope. You've beyond that. Now you need
to choose this one. It's not linear. Whereas
actually it's more. broadens those skills it
really enriches builds a really strong foundation
whilst you're still working on those higher skills
you're building on that foundation of these fundamental
like foundation skills aren't you at the same
time and you can prove that through the assessment
data you've got as well can't you rather than
only getting the congratulations and the seeing
the success by pulling the children upwards and
it's also a danger if you are doing that with
a reading that once they kind of get that great
we move on it's like my main part i think with
reading is we want them to enjoy it you don't
want them to be constantly struggling or con
you just actually know just finish that series
of books get that enjoyment out of it see what
actually as you read further what more you get
out of it as you're starting to read between
the lines as you know more about that character
what are you seeing what are you inferring differently
and then move on rather than now we've got to
push you on we need progress Yeah, it's a really
unfortunate place to be, isn't it? I remember
my mum was in mainstream training whilst I was
in my SEM training at the same time, weirdly.
We trained to be teachers at the same time. And
she would always say, oh, my level four child,
my level three child. I used to hate it. I used
to think, oh, my God, you're literally using
their levels as their name. It just feels so
impersonal. And I was always really proud that
I didn't know my children's levels, but I knew.
their pet's name and their dad's favourite football
team and their special interests, all the characters.
And I used to praise myself for that. And I still
do 15 years on. But B Squared's there. If I do
need to know their level, I can just look it
up. I really pride myself on that isn't actually
the biggest thing of the job. And I feel like
maybe that's because of B Squared, because it's
doing the numbers for me. I can focus on the
statements. I can focus on their IEPs. I can
tell you those off by heart. I can tell you what
they know and what they can do off by heart.
But yeah, just calling children by their level
just always bothered me and I always picked on
her for it. I think in mainstream it is that,
especially where we've moved away from levels,
which I think is a bad thing because as you said,
your mum had a year level four child and a level
three child, where now it would just be a year
five child or a below child. Would it? Oh, wow.
Because that language is just, they're below.
But I think that in mainstream, that push to
go through the things, the kind of that end of
year outcomes is your curriculum, it's your syllabus,
it's what you have to do. And it defines. Whereas
when children are working behind, when they're
kind of S -E -N -D, they're trying to work. The
levels aren't so much this is an order of you
doing things is these are perceived for a typical
child as skills of a similar difficulty. It's
not telling you an order. It's actually these
are for a typical child a similar difficulty.
But actually, once you get into neurodiverse
and all those sorts of things, actually what's
difficult for them can be completely different.
And you shouldn't be limited, as you were saying,
to I have a level two child. I can only look
at level two or step two, whatever the language
is. You know the child. You assess where they
are. You think about their next steps based on
them, not what a piece of software is telling
you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And was that your
initial focus when creating this program? What
was the gap you were seeing when you thought,
I think I can create something here that's needed?
So it wasn't me who created it. Okay. At the
time, I was a forklift truck driver at Ikea.
Interesting story, but that's another thing.
It was my mum who was a teacher. I think it goes
back to when the national curriculum came out
in the mid -90s and you got told to get rid of
all your old stuff and nothing worked. Yeah,
it was Tony Blair era. So she just went... I
need to know where my children are so I know
what the next steps are. And the National Curriculum
was too big, too vague. So she created a paper
checklist so she knew where the children were
and could celebrate that progress. And then people
kind of went, that's really good. Can I have
a copy? Can I have a copy? Can I have a copy?
And the school said it was a complete load of
rubbish and not worth anything. And so she started
selling it. And the first sale was to an Ofsted
inspector. during an inspection of one of her
friend's schools and there was a rule is once
you sold 10 you leave teaching so she sold 10
in a term 10 folders and and left so it was kind
of there was no ability to show progress and
my mum always said i'll use this until something
better comes along and she waited and waited
and waited and nothing better came along and
that so it wasn't like i'm going to change the
world it was i'll use this till something better
comes along oh people are funny i'll make it
better and but it it's just always grown so we
have a great relationship with our customers
always talking to them always finding out what
they want what they struggle with what they get
wrong what they assume all those and that always
goes into the software so it just gets easier
every year who are your customers who's buying
this who's using there So at the moment, I think
the majority of our schools are mainstream schools
for their SEN, where maybe the main tracker they've
just got working below, working towards below.
It doesn't tell you anything about where they're
actually at, does it? No, which means when you're
trying to actually plan anything, identify next
steps, you're really struggling because you don't
actually know where they are. Yeah. You can't
talk about the progress they've made because
you don't really know where they are. And we
think of the APDR cycle, that first bit is assessment,
to help you identify where they are, to plan
what you're going to do to support them to make
a difference. And if you haven't got anything
in that assessment part, then you're really going
to struggle in actually what are the next steps.
Yeah. And I think people are realizing more and
more actually just writing below isn't great.
They know the children are making progress, but
they can't show it. which then kind of gets that
morale down of the staff working with the children
because they spent the whole year, but it just
comes out as they're still below. Yeah, and they
might be a year four teacher who's only ever
taught, you know, that year group or similar.
And they genuinely want to know, but they don't
know what it looks like for a child working at
age two, age three, kind of cognitively. So it's
also giving you ideas for that as well, isn't
it? Not only the baseline, as you were saying,
but also. How do I plan for this? How do I include
them and make it meaningful for them, for my
learning? Well, all the statements are there
for you. I use the B -squared statements as my
learning objectives. I don't know if other teachers
do that, but it's something I've always done
because it's clear to me that I can easily differentiate.
I take the statements from that subject for whatever
one I want to teach. Say, for example, it's seasons,
science. I can have, right, what does that look
like if they're working at under one year? And
then for my next week, what does that look like
if they're working a year to two? And then what
does that look like three to four? That's kind
of where my tasks are at right now. So I've got
three different activities. I've got all the
statements there that are meaningful, that are
realistic, that are appropriate and are working
towards the outcome ultimately of learning about
seasons. When you walk into my room, you might
not think it looks like learning about seasons.
But through using those statements and looking
at that linear line, you can see where we're
heading. We're all heading for the same outcome.
And that's what I really love about that. It's
a really great way of justifying those sensory
-based learning, those interactions that don't
look like learning about Vikings, for example.
Well, actually, what is that? looking in mirrors
it's building interaction learning about ourselves
learning about our senses because how can we
learn about our history if we don't know have
a sense of self but i wouldn't know that if i
didn't have those statements to fall back on
i would just be pulling it out of thin air and
i don't think that's ever a good thing it needs
to be research -based and evidence -based doesn't
it and that's what b squared gives me for sure
so it's a couple of things you hit on there so
one of them is i think teachers have a comfort
zone that year four teacher We'll know the year
four curriculum off by heart. Year three, pretty
well. Year two, below that, they're at their
comfort zone. And I see saying, oh, my teachers
can't write smart targets. They can within their
comfort zone, within that world they know they
can do that. So having that framework that actually
year four teacher, you've got a child working
18 months. This is what 18 months looks like
developmentally. These are the next steps. This
is what you should be working towards. It really
helps with our. content we really focus on the
skills not the knowledge so science is one of
the one is the only one which kind of doesn't
do that i'll get to that in a second but we really
focus on was reading writing all that stuff geography
history all the subjects we do we look at the
skills so it doesn't matter what curriculum you're
doing so you could have a child working at year
one in year six but they can do that year six
curriculum at the year one level rather than
I know some schools, especially in science, they
think a child's working at year two. I need to
do year two science with them because when I
look at year two science, it's telling me to
do this. So the rest of the class will do this
because it's year six. They're doing space, I
think, is year six. But they're year two, so
we'll do a completely different topic. Yeah,
we'll do light. Yeah. Whereas we've differentiated
every topic down to the bottom of primary steps,
which is 18 months developmentally. So it doesn't
matter where they're working. at year six child
in working at year one can still do earth and
space and that's inclusion isn't it and it also
supports the teaching assistant because off so
often especially when you move up the school
to year six the ta becomes so crucial they are
the teacher for these sen children because it's
so separate that it's the gap is so wide that
you need to rely on your support staff so heavily
for for that teaching well with these statements
It's providing them the skills and the outcomes
they need and the progress statements that they
need in order to know next steps, wherever they
are, what does it look like for this child, which
really, really helps and gives them confidence,
gives them that backing that they need in order
to do their job. And it gives them a voice because
when you've got a saying, if you go back to the
old levels, you had the big level descriptors
and it's like, which one of these paragraphs
best fit this child? even three teachers come
up with three different answers it's a big decision
there's lots of nuances but when you split that
down into lots of statements you can say yes
they can do that yes they can do that we're working
on that he's doing that when the ta can start
saying that they're part of that conversation
you but you're upskilling them you're giving
them a voice you're helping them see these are
things we're looking out for this what we're
hoping to achieve but actually if you see any
of these as well or see an opportunity to drop
that in go for it because that's actually one
of his targets as well absolutely and it helps
the conversation when they're talking back to
teacher they've got a framework to have those
conversations around what happened in the lesson
where the progress was where they're struggling
it makes that so much more rich so we're using
b squared for learning objectives we're using
b squared for our assessment we're using b squared
to add levels to ehcp and ieps apparently when
you can use b squared to write reports i've got
a meeting about that in half an hour that's exciting
do you want to tell us a bit about that because
i feel like this is coming out in april uh so
i feel like now's the time to share that with
teachers can you help us write our reports yes
yes we added in ai a couple of years ago it was
we had one of these really random I wonder if
we could do that. And we talked to one of the
developers and he literally a week later went,
have a play with this. And at the moment we haven't
moved on from it because it just is so simple.
It works so well. So what you can do is in connecting
steps, you've done your assessments. You've got
all the things you've marked green, which means
achieved independently. You've got yellows and
oranges when they're working towards it. Kind
of maybe it's different levels of support or
levels of engagement. But when you have those
greens, what you can do is you can select a number
of those greens. So these are the key achievements
that this child achieved this year. And then
in the top right is a little brain icon. You
click on that brain icon and you want to summarize
the key achievements to the child or the parents.
And you can also translate into 40 different
languages. So if the parent's home language is
not English, a Ukrainian or whatever, it will
give you an English version and a Ukrainian version.
And it takes your key statement. So it's ones
you've chosen about that child. So it's still
very, very personal, but it does that really
boring part of writing into lovely sentences
with correct he's and she's and all that stuff.
It does all of that for you. It generates that
you copy to clipboard and paste it into your
report. Great. And then you can personalise it
and add little bits, add photos and all that.
And we're going to be adding photos when we do
our reports from Eversense, which is another
one of your programmes. It's very linked, actually,
is it? It's kind of like a sister to B Squared,
I would say. Do you want to explain a little
bit about Eversense? So Eversense has been around
for eight years about now, but it really took
off last year when we did our new version. But
what we found was... connecting steps and everything
previously is it was okay i said i can do it
but i can't show it it was i said he can do this
and if you've got exercise books if you've got
children working year one above you can just
pull out an exercise book you can pull out a
great but at the other end of the scale if they're
in post 16 and doing uh life skills they're going
to the shops again that's not in an exercise
book you're watching them giving money getting
change or just going beep on the card now um
but All those life skills crossing the road,
that's not in an exercise book. You're showing
them doing it. They couldn't show that as well.
So we developed Eversense and what we always
wanted to be is really, really simple and really,
really easy to use. So we basically made an orange
Facebook for a school. Yeah, it does feel like
social media. It does. It feels like safe social
media. because so many systems have taken that
approach on teams things like that we get it
we understand it and but it's a really flexible
system i think some systems are child by child
and ever since you could have the whole school
in a feed or you could have just your class but
you see all the input from the different tas
the teachers the pe teacher the speech and language
therapist the pet everyone can feed so you get
a really nice holistic view of all the things
going on with that child but you can filter it
in lots of ways. You can look across the whole
school and go, right, how are we supporting communication
interaction across the whole school? And it would
just filter. And it's one of the things that
if you had paper, and the reason we created Eversense
is my child was in a nursery, or no, childminder,
and she gave us the paper -based early learning
journal. And I went, oh my God, thank you. This
is amazing. It's lovely to see the photos, isn't
it? It's lovely. And she went, no, no, that's
mine. You can look at it for the weekend. she
if ofsted come i have to have this and i was
just like and there were so many amazing little
observations written on post -it notes like the
conversation she said what did daddy do this
weekend while she's at the park and she most
most most random stuff and it was just so lovely
and i wish we had that as a permanent record
it was like if this was on software i could have
printed two copies yeah Yeah, exactly. And it
doesn't get lost. It doesn't get damaged. It
doesn't take long to do as well. Let's talk about
that. Like teacher time is so precious. I couldn't
do half the things that I do in my classroom
if it wasn't for the use of this, using the software.
Yeah, it's as simple as the kids are doing something.
You take a photo of it or a video or a few photos
or videos and you upload it as if you were to
a Facebook page and then you can link it. You
can write a little statement about it like you
would with a caption on Facebook. And then you
can link it to the statements that we were talking
about earlier as well. So it all links to the
learning objectives. It all links to their assessment.
It all feeds into that ultimate picture of where
that child's at. And it's the proof, isn't it?
Yeah, like you say, none of my 10 children have
anything on paper, very, very little. It's all
through doing and practical. So photos and videos
are really crucial. Another thing that is. given
us not only is getting the proof it's also building
really strong relationships with our parents
we've noticed this year we've only been using
it this year this year our parents our relationship
with the parents has really improved we don't
so often get to chat at the gate because they're
brought in on taxi so those relationships can
become quite difficult to build that trust yeah
sending home daily photos and videos of their
children happy thriving feeling safe you know
and the captions clearly celebrating their children
for just being them and all their achievements
seeing them with their friends you know all those
things that our parents don't get the privilege
to witness is really really wonderful we've noticed
a huge difference this year in that so with Eversense
it is I think especially with children as soon
as you add school transport in you lose that
talking at the gates so that's a really big barrier
but also if you think about when a lot of schools
communicate with the parents of scnd it's negative
communication it's when things go wrong so any
communication comes in you're already dreading
it oh something from the school what's gone it's
rarely positive so having ever since where you
can have that constant communication and it can
be two -way if the school wants it yeah which
is which works really great in holidays they
can tell us what they've been doing it's great
so yeah so they can either just like things they
can add comments but as you get very brave which
obviously what you're doing is they can add their
own posts and that is you can celebrate not only
the wow moments that are going on school but
you get to see the wow moments from home and
it's you're now bringing everyone closer together
so they can actually see what their child's doing
they can see their experiences and for some children
the parents want to see them doing different
things and experiencing things they're realistic
with the amount of progress but As long as they're
not just sitting in that classroom doing nothing.
Actually, what are you doing? What did you do?
If you ask yourself, what did you do today? Nothing.
If you've got a photo where they made something,
did you make a penguin today? Yes. The conversation
started. And my children are minimally speaking.
So it's really great to be able to have that
nonverbal communication with them through that
photo, through that video. And so often the children
in my class love watching themselves and watching
it back and sharing that because it's their way
of sharing their news, isn't it? They have no
other way of doing that. which is really important
to help that transition between home and school
and to keep that less separate, I think, which
so often, especially autistic children, fall
into that of those separate environments and
keeping them quite separate. So, yeah, having
it get a bit muddy, I think, is always a good
thing. I like with connecting sex, we can show
progress in lots of different ways. But I feel
that sometimes those experiences may not be going
forward progression, but it's that sideways progression.
It's doing it in different contexts and being
open to new things is progress. But also a graph
can show progress to those who love the graphs.
But now you've been using it for a year or so.
You've got the timeline on the right on the website.
You could jump back to a year ago and you can
watch a video of them a year ago and what they
were doing. and sometimes that is the most effective
way of showing progress somebody who might not
be feeling great about their writing or what
they're creating okay all right hang on let's
look at what you've created here now look at
what you created a year ago can you see the difference
you can talk about the differences and it helps
them see how far they've come yeah which you
don't get from a graph and not just the students
but the parents the teaching assistants as well
so often we get stuck day by day in the oh we
haven't done anything today or oh they're not
you know whatever well actually yes so often
you look a year back and think my goodness they're
not i don't know They're not wearing their blanket
as much as they are now. Or do you remember they
had to have their hood up and their ear defenders
on all the time and now they're not. It might
not even be the thing that we wrote the caption
about, but photos and videos looking back is
so important. Look at how they move. You know,
they still do that even though they're double
the size now because we have had children for
seven years in my classroom. So we can... In
six years, we'll be going back seven years on
Eversense. And I just know the difference is
going to be huge. And we're going to really be
celebrating their journey with us, which, yeah,
is so exciting to do through photos and videos.
So, so much more, yeah, meaningful. It's clearer
when you see through a video. And also as a teacher
as well, because I don't do all of the teaching
in my room, I do rely on my support staff to
do a lot of those interventions. So I can't be
there for all of them. So when I'm looking at
EverSense at the end of the day, I can have a
really clear picture of where they're at, what
they did, what support they needed, what scaffold
they needed. Do we need to repeat that activity?
Do we need to move that on? And it really informs
my planning. Whereas sometimes if I just ask
the teaching assistant or read the notes, it's
not as clear as to what that activity really
did involve. And the video can't lie. No, I love
video for that. And what you can do is as a teacher,
you can edit their posts. So there's TAs. So
you can go in and go, actually, because I'm thinking
about something else, it also means this. Therefore,
you can then link it to the assessment points
in connecting steps. And if you want, you can
then assess. So you don't even have to go into
connecting steps. Yeah, that's new, isn't it?
Yes. That excited me because, yeah, it just felt
like two jobs. You felt like you have to do it
on the app and then you did it on the computer.
Whereas now, you just do the job once, which
is very exciting. I always like doing a job once.
There's so many things we do are about that.
So you talked about children on different frameworks,
those overlappers. But if a skill appears in
one framework and another, or it appears in,
let's say, spoken language and PSHE with the
social and communication ties out of it, if I
fill it in in one place, it gets filled in everywhere
it appears. So as you transition one framework
to the next, as they move... stuff is filled
i think that might be my favorite thing because
it saves so much time so often especially for
our emerging learners that are working at that
18 month kind of level so much is cross -curricular
you know who's to say that if you're working
on engagement it's not communication or vice
versa for example yeah so ticking off that one
box in one then ticks off all the same statements
across all of the different areas the you know
the areas of learning they're working on Great!
That is so helpful to me to see that because
it is so cross -curricular. Where we have special
schools where they're using us for every child
and they have things like the engagement model,
our progression steps, our autism progress and
our communication interaction frameworks, they
all overlap hugely. There's communication in
autism, there's communication in the natural
curriculum, it's everywhere. Whoever fills it
in... it overlaps everyone so the speech and
language of therapies is working on something
they feel something that's going to affect the
engagement model it's going to impact the progression
steps so each person is looking at that child
through their lens through that framework but
it's impacting everyone so you're getting that
holistic view that much bigger picture of that
child rather than everyone working in isolation
and not sharing what they've been working on
and not seeing the impact it's all done for you
Yeah. And then parents as well can add to those
photos, can't they? And kind of put in their
impact from home as well, because often in different
environments, they can do different things. So
that's really, really crucial too. I mentioned
parents. I meant to say something earlier. You
talked about when you're kind of using it for
seven years. A nice little feature you'll find
at that point is when kind of children are leaving
your school or at any point, but more when they're
leaving the school, when the parents log in,
there is a download all evidence button. So they
can download a zip file of all those photos and
videos that you've shared with them. That would
be amazing. Because I think I've got so many
memories. Yeah, that's it. Do you know what would
be really lovely? If you could work this out
in the next six years before my kids leave, if
there could be an AI way of auto -editing to
music. and create a little leavers video of all
the evidence that we've had for the last seven
years if you could work on that Dale that'd be
fantastic and would you also like me to throw
in a photo book as well yeah they could buy a
photo book yeah great you can keep the profit
one of the things I think with AI coming on the
speed it's doing I think those are quite plausible
exciting I think it'll be a case of you going
through all the photos starring them and then
going I want it this long, off you go. But it's
one of those things, it's a really nice thing.
Facebook do them, Apple do them, we get the Spotify
rap. Yeah, that's exactly it. That's kind of
what I'm thinking. Yeah, like a rap affair. Yeah,
I think that's on the horizon. But it sounds
kind of, we're joking about it, but it's really
serious because it is about celebrating what
they do. And I think especially in a mainstream
setting where... Very often these children aren't
at the top of the assembly list. They're not
included. No, we had two leavers this year that
didn't get their assembly in my school. And then
they're not in the yearbook. They're not on the
sports team. They're not in the newsletters.
They're constantly below. Actually, they are
having an amazing time. They are progressing.
They are happy. They are joyful. They are enjoying
school, hopefully. Yeah, there's so much to celebrate.
Let's celebrate however small we want to celebrate
it. Yeah. Because it's huge. It's small but huge,
isn't it? Yeah, and the parents and the children
deserve that celebration. So yeah, if you could
work on that, I'll be the first to use it. I
literally, I'm going to go talk to John after
this. Amazing. I expect a little sponsored by
Septiclass. Talking about developments on the
horizon though, seriously, what are you working
on? Because I know you're always thinking and
developing and exploring other avenues. So currently
we're trying to do things. We're going to have
new features every single month. lots of little
new things and one of them we updating the ai
so you can adjust the text you can set whether
or not you're going to be happy about the amount
of progress happy with their effort i was always
a child who made outstanding progress with minimal
effort but also your kind of tone we've got to
work in there and then if you adjust that text
you can adjust it and then we do the translation
so we're going to tweak the ai to make it even
better big things we're working on at the moment
we don't synchronize with mis's so that's That's
what we're working on right now, and that will
be out before the end of the year. The next bit
we're doing is trust -level data. It's where
we use across multiple schools. They can get
that overview of all the data across their trust
for their SEND children. And what we always do,
the way we always write things and think about
things, is we want to make sure it's always done
in a positive way. So the language in the system
will always be about supportive, not smashing
someone over the head with a hammer because they've
not done good enough. yeah it's changing that
to how can we support them amazing making sure
it's trying to be doing it in a supportive way
so they're the two things we're working on this
year once we finish that a bit that everyone
gets excited about when i mention it is going
to be our planning and provision mapping module
hey because at the moment you've got lots of
stuff you're working on but you haven't kind
of you can't organize it into this is our plan
this is what we're working on this is what we
want to do for their ehcp So lots of schools
love that, that actually we can have a list of
things to work on, whether it's a curriculum
plan or an annual kind of that EHCP annual review,
kind of this is what we're working on this year.
And when we do that, you'll be able to add in
your own statements. That's great. So this is
the B -square, there's evidence as well. It'll
be in both. Yeah, that's really great. So you
try to create the plan in the connecting steps
part with these skills that are in B -square
and you pull them in, like creating a playlist
in Spotify. But when you've got stuff missing,
you'll be able to type those in. That's great.
That would be really helpful for their IEP targets
because sometimes they are just personal ones.
They're not as generic. Honestly, the only thing
that I think is missing from Eversense is that
opportunity to add those personal IEP targets
to work on. But how we go around that now is
we just put IEP, write the target in the caption,
and then there's a little IEP button that you
can tick that puts it in the IEP box. And it
does the same job. doing it that way but yeah
even better if you can make it official so it
will be official and you lack when you can then
go once you've created you're about to assess
it as if it was an assessment page you'll have
all your targets on a page which means never
since you can link the evidence to that target
and then you can say right print off all the
evidence linked to this plan yeah and it's going
to give you just the evidence for that plan and
we can track progress and also for your children
it's not a case of when you pick an assessment
point you want them to master it it might be
you just want them to do it with less support
maybe they're doing full -on physical hand -over
-hand support and you maybe want to get to verbal
prompting by the end of the year so it's actually
it's not that they want it to be achieved actually
we want them to get to gaining skills and understanding
or um interaction yeah just exposure sometimes
you know we just need to prove that we're exposing
them to certain things and that can be that can
be it you these are all predictions aren't they
how you'll be next year sometimes they completely
blow it out the water and I've had some children
go up three levels in in a year and other children
have very much stayed at the same level but you
like you say we're broadening those skills we're
broadening that exposure to those opportunities
and adding scaffolding and all of those kind
of things in order to achieve it yeah I mean
that is it that is SEMD assessment isn't it ultimately
yeah because I find that we do the academic stuff
really well especially like main we do english
and maths english and maths there's like there
is lots of other stuff there's a whole ehcp four
broad areas need are you even thinking about
that no so it's taking us time to get there because
we want to do it right and we're trying to get
everything lined up ready for it so the provision
mapping we do the crown they can bring that provision
mapping and loads of stuff around that but then
what we want to and i every time i talk to schools
none of them really do it is for your children
across All those EHCPs this year, how did they
do across the four broad areas of need? Is there
a pattern? And most people go, don't know, never
thought about it. Is it you're always missing
the communication interaction targets? Is it
always missing this? Yeah, because then that's
not a pupil thing, is it? That's a provision
thing, setting thing. And one of the ones I've
always said that maybe people have said the communication
interaction fails is not because of what the
professional is doing. but the communication
around what the professional's doing so you might
have a speech and language therapist come in
child leaves your class goes and works with them
then comes back an hour later and the speech
and language person's gone you don't know what
was worked on you've got no information a term
or year later you find out what was worked and
you're like ah but what happens yeah if that
speech and language therapist just records a
little selfie video and ever since today we worked
on this please can you give opportunities to
practice this because that would really help
you watch that when it makes sense to you like
you said you review at the end of the day the
parents could watch it you can then spend the
next week giving those opportunities and now
that speech and language therapist impact is
so much more they haven't changed anything they've
just communicated what you're doing and you're
given the opportunity to practice or it's embedding
and that has a huge impact i think that's the
ultimate thing isn't it is remembering that all
of this stuff, yes, it gives you the data. Yes,
it gives you the assessment. Yes, it makes your
life easier. Yes, it saves you time. Ultimately,
what is assessment for? It's to improve future
learning. It's to improve, isn't it? It's to
improve. So yes, it proves what you have done,
but even more importantly, it improves what you're
about to do. It informs what you're going to
do. So if your assessment isn't doing that, if
it is just meeting this, jumping through hoops
quota it's just a waste of time isn't it it's
just numbers on a spreadsheet if it doesn't actually
change anything it doesn't actually inform you
of anything so yeah that's where i would say
look at this approach instead it's far more practical
it it works for you it works around your children
and it ultimately is useful if you are a mainstream
school listening to this i always ask when someone
comes to how do you know which children to use
it with And the first one is children you cannot
show progress for in your mainstream tracker.
And that generally is a number of children. Then
the next one is you might be able to show progress,
but it's not helping identify where they're not
making progress. And that's the bit that sometimes
they can show progress or it looks like there's
progress, but it's not helping the teacher plan
those next steps. Because that whole point of
assessment is to inform future learning. So if
your assessment isn't informing anything for
that child. you're just wasting everyone's time
doing that assessment yeah yeah so SENCO's mainstream
teachers and SEN teachers if you're feeling like
that then um there'll be a link in the description
below to have a meeting with Dale his team and
just to get talking about what you're provision
looks like what your setting look like what your
needs are and then what part of what they can
offer is best for you it's not a one -size -fits
-all always sometimes it's a oh you need this
part or this part or actually we're still developing
that let's you know whatever but um just to have
that call with them is is really helpful so that
link is going to be in the description below
dale if for everyone else listening where else
can they find your amazing stuff because you've
got your own podcast as well that i was on recently
and which i love listening to yeah so Tell us
everything. Where can people find you? So, easiest
way is Spotify, probably next to your podcast,
if you've got the same cast. We've now done 230
-something episodes, and we've just gone over
400 ,000 downloads, which is phenomenal. And
by the time this episode comes out, it will be
five years old. But that again... came from going
into schools hearing that feedback and going
you're helping us the assessment but kind of
not everyone gets SEM we're really struggling
to get people to understand and think about it
and there's no time or training it's always a
SENCO who goes to a conference it's always miles
away so the rest of the school aren't getting
that training so we created that SENCAST as we
need to upskill the whole Every single teacher
in every single school needs upskilling. And
you get such great interviewees on there and
really, really crucial, important conversations.
And yeah, like you say, it's access to these,
you know, ultimate people in the SEND world.
And you're hearing them. You're hearing you asking
the questions that we want to ask them. And it's
in your pocket. It's in your ears when you're
on your run, when you're commuting to school.
Yeah, it's really important. And you're giving
us access to those people ultimately. And it's
the same people, if you go to the TS show in
London or the autism shows and neurodiversity
shows or even BET, some of the same speakers
you could go see there are having that conversation.
So I infer it's not a formal lecture. No. It's
much more friendlier. We bounce around like we
have on this conversation. We bounce around all
over the place and everyone says, I'm really
great. They have a question on their brain and
I seem to ask it. And it's free also, so it's
so accessible. It can't be any more accessible.
So, yeah, definitely check out the Sendcast and
check out the Sendcast on social media as well
for their updates on what's coming up. And then,
yeah, reach out to Dale if you're interested
in the B Squared assessment staff in the description
below. And what I will also say is we're not
going to sell it to you. We're not going to pressure
you. We don't need to. We will show you what
it does. If it's not right, and we know it's
not right, we will tell you. Yeah. and if it's
not there yet we'll tell you we try to be really
honest we try to run the company and treat our
customers that we want to be treated so we're
not going to sell you something that doesn't
work if it's not right for you i will say it's
not right for you and especially if you're a
secondary i'll highlight all the challenges you're
up against yeah yeah i think my customers know
that i very very rarely do ads on my account
but i have worked with you guys because it's
something i'm using already it's something i
love already so you know it seems effortless
to me to do that and they're the only ads that
I run so they know that they know that I wouldn't
be having you on here if I didn't truly believe
it and I do I think that every SEN school and
mainstream school should be using b squared I
believe that whole heartedly which is why I'm
so pleased that you're on here so thank you so
much for chatting to me uh day on I hope you
have a wonderful rest of your day you too thank
you for having me on here thanks bye everyone
Thank you.