Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. Today I am joined by Amy Stephens
-Magpie and she is a speech and language therapist,
although has dabbled into the world of sensory
integration as well. She's kind of two in one
with Amy and I'm really excited to speak to her
about sensory integration in the classroom today.
Hello Amy. Hi, it's lovely to be here. Thank
you so much for asking me to come along. Of course,
I saw a good few of your videos. I think Instagram
knew that we would get along because... I had
one week where I was bombarded with all your
videos and I thought, hello, I like this. This
feels good to me. This feels like how I want
to work and what I want to do. My audience won't
need to hear this. So I'm really pleased that
you, I'm really pleased you're here. Excellent.
So I've kind of done a very mini introduction,
but would you like to introduce yourself? Because
speech and language therapist and sensory integration
together, that sounds really exciting. Yeah.
Okay. Well, so I am Amy Stephens. Yay! So kind
of the way that you kind of introduced that,
Jordan, I think is really a useful place to start
because that's one of the biggest misconceptions
about sensory integration. So one of the biggest
misconceptions is that somehow it is synonymous
with occupational therapy or that it's the exclusive
preserve of occupational therapy. And it is not.
Sensory integration. as a concept, as a way of
working, as a way of including people is for
everyone. Every single person must be, should
be included in sensory integration. There isn't
a kind of, I'm not sensory, everybody's in. Within
the formal training and formal qualifications,
it is the case and has been for a long time that
occupational therapists, speech and language
therapists and physiotherapists can train. So
my training as an advanced practitioner, in sensory
integration is exactly the same as an occupational
therapist or a physiotherapist who's trained
in it. I'm trained to the same level with the
same things. And in fact, in these, you know,
for most of the people who are training in the
UK, the course they take now to train, I wrote
that course, but I was the first speech and language
therapist to formally train as, and that advanced
level. In America, there'd been other speech
therapists before, and in the UK and in Ireland,
other speech therapists who were getting it.
who wanted to work in a neuroaffirming way, who
wanted to understand how sensory was part of
what the children and adults they were supporting
were doing. So there were already people doing
it. That was part of my clinical work too. You
know, I could see there was a missing piece and
I was lucky enough to work with an OT who was
doing sensory integration and that led me to
explore more. And I was the first. as I said,
the first speech and language therapist in the
world to formally qualify as an advanced practitioner
in ASSI. Okay, let's talk about what that looks
like then. So you're working with a young person.
How do the two come together in that beautiful,
affirming way? Yeah, so it's the same thing.
It is the same thing. So sensory integration
is the framework that allows me to look at what's
going on. So when we say sensory integration,
What we mean is this person, this young person,
this older person, they have a brain and a nervous
system which has wired up to respond to the environment
in specific ways. And when there's a mismatch
between this young person's environment, the
young person's nervous system and the environment
and the demands or the task, that's where the
issue is. It's not that there's something wrong
with them or wrong with their nervous system.
It's they have a differently wired nervous system
where when there's a mismatch, that's where the
issue is. So how does that show up for speech,
language and communication? If you want to be
part of any kind of engagement with somebody
else, you first of all need to feel safe. And
second of all, you need to understand what the
heck is going on. So that piece is the sensory
integration piece. Feeling safe, understanding
what's going on and then being able to make use
of the opportunities. Right. It's what speech
language therapy is. It's also what learning
is. Yeah. Regulation before communication. Sure.
Nobody can speak their best speak, however vocal
you are, if you're being chased by a tiger. And
often that's how our children feel, isn't it?
In those environments that aren't matched for
them. Absolutely. One of the things I say a lot,
Jordan, is that a really good way to think of
this is that your brain is a sense -making machine.
What does your brain want to do? It wants to
make sense of what's happening. It will use whatever
it can to make sense of what's happening. So
if you feel physiologically unsafe or psychologically
unsafe, your brain tells you this is not safe
to be here. It is not safe to engage. You are
in peril. Run away and save your life. And what
do you do when you're in that fight, fright or
flight mode? You run. You might hit out. You
might hurt yourself. You might hurt others. You
might fall to the floor. You might freeze. You
might hide. All of those things that some people
might be seeing in their classrooms or in their
homes with, you know, people that are in their
lives, their loved ones. That might be what you're
seeing, but what's happening internally is exactly
that, is that survival, I don't feel safe mode,
isn't it? Absolutely. And I think, you know,
particularly as a parent, it's so hard when your
child is kind of lashing out in this kind of
fight behaviours because you know they're safe
and it's really hard to be in that place where
you can't explain to them easily that they are
safe. That actually, you know, it's kind of understanding
that this is not anything you've done or not
done. It's that their brain and their nervous
system can't make sense of this environment,
of this task, in a way which allows their body
to go, right, what's on the plate? I suppose
there's two different things. I'm thinking there's
the moment when the child is in that crisis.
how you respond will be maybe very differently
than when they are regulated and what yeah what
you can work on and what you can be like and
how you can your yeah how you what your expectations
of them as those can be very different can't
it would you like to talk about that a little
bit about capacity in those situations yeah for
sure so that you know that first piece safety
first safety first safety is the priority that
When you're outside and you're seeing this, seeing
this showing up in the classroom, at home, out
in the street, out in the supermarket, once you
step away from the label behavior, from the word
behavior, and you look at it through the lens
of, is this a child trying to feel safe, trying
to make sense of what's happening, that puts
you in a completely different place. in relationship
to what you're seeing. So the compassion and
love with which you then respond is in a completely
different place. So I'm not saying it's never
behavior. Sometimes it is, but actually that's
communication. We'll go there in a minute. Talking
about sensory peace, just that really core understanding
that what you're seeing is a little brain and
a little bit nervous system just trying to feel
safe. just trying to make sense, it puts you
in a place where you have so much to offer to
create safety, so much to offer to create sense.
That sense of, you know, that's all consuming,
that sense of you cannot move past that, you
can't short circuit it, you can't hurry it through,
you can't decide that's enough, they're regulated
now, until they're ready. Their brain is not
going to be able to make use of anything else
you've got to offer. So if you want a child to
learn, if you want a child to thrive, if you
want a child to engage, you have to invest in
the relationship of making them feel safe in
the moment. What kind of things would you be
looking at in that moment? And I guess it's different
for every person, of course. But what kind of
things would you be curious about? What would
your internal monologue be saying as you're trying
to work through all of these things? That's a
really good question. Of course, you know, for
me, there's like, oh, here's what we ran down.
So I guess, you know, for me, that first thing
is kind of understanding its nervous system environment
tasks. So the first thing I'm doing is, can we
just hold off on the task, just hold off on the
demand? Then I'm looking at the environment.
What is there that in my knowledge of the child
is making me think that actually this could be
quite challenging? And, you know, often it's
things that you overlook because you feel safe
in the environment. So it's how bright are the
lights? How strong are the smells? How close
are people? What kind of textures do you have
to deal with? What's the temperature like? All
of those kind of physical... physical aspects
of the environment and that's stuff that most
of the time is relatively straightforward relatively
easy to address yeah i can and it's putting yourself
in their shoes isn't it and to do that you need
to know them so i suppose this also goes along
with building trust and relationships doesn't
it and really getting to know them and getting
to know the people who know them best which is
often the parents and the caregivers asking them
you know what do they see what is happy to them
what is heaven to them and what is nightmare
what is hell to them i suppose and and kind of
trying to piece together ah you know it might
have been the lights because it's a certain flicker
or it might have been this certain perfume and
then you can kind of working together can work
out the why and again it's just a hypothesis
we were talking about this the other week then
you've got to test it Haven't you? Because we
can come up with the best hypotheses, can't we?
Often in meetings and things. And we think, yep,
we've got it. But you have to test it because
it is just a theory until you've seen, isn't
it? Yeah, for sure. And I think that's where,
for me, sensory integration is so interesting.
Really interesting. Because on surface level,
it's so straightforward. It's so simple. But
then the minute you get underneath that kind
of surface level... There's so much potential
complexity there. And one of the pieces that
it took me a long time to click with is that
what's happening with this brain and this nervous
system in this environment is it's contextual.
It's what's happening in this context right now.
It may be that in other situations a similar
kind of sensory environment seems absolutely
fine to this person. It isn't all or nothing.
It's in the moment. And that's why sometimes
assessment can be tricky because assessments
lose the context. And I think one of the things
where that often leads me kind of in the work
that I do with schools and with families is starting
from that place of, you know what this child
looks like when they feel calm, when they feel
secure, when they feel happy. So even before
you try and work out how to get them there. Do
you understand where you're trying to get to?
Do you have a sense of what this will look like
when we get there? This is me, Flo Longhorn's
Happiness Audit. I don't know if you've ever
used that. I know it, but I haven't used it.
Flo Longhorn is just fabulous, isn't she? If
you haven't heard of her, look her up. She's
fabulous. She's got some amazing books and things.
I think she's, since retirement, is now offering
all of her books and resources for free, which
is just amazing. What a wonderful woman. But
she's created something called the Happiness
Audit, and it's auditing happiness, what happiness
looks like for the person that you are working
with. and it goes through all of the senses but
also yeah environmental sounds friends family
what does happiness look like and i suppose that's
a really great starting point isn't it of knowing
that um we give the sheets out to the parents
actually when with for our new starters so that
we know what we're working towards you know is
this happiness for them what actually And it's
great because you could use that to inform motivators
and environments and where they want to be in
the classroom and all of those things. So, yeah,
happiness is a really wonderful resource for
measuring that happiness. That's such a great
idea. And one of the things that I love about
your work as well, Jordan, is that works when
it lands in an environment where there's an expectation
that... We are going to be working to what this
child needs and wants, you know, not to indulge
them, but because that's what allows them to
thrive. That's what allows them to learn. So
we're not trying to make them look like, be like,
do like some other version of another child.
We want them to be fully themselves and secure
in ways that allow them and others to learn.
Yeah, I suppose so often in classrooms, we're
asking the young person to be the flexible one.
aren't we whereas actually the affirming approach
i would say is that the environment and we need
to be the flexible ones and mold ourselves around
them and their needs and their wants and until
they feel safe and you have a trusting relationship
and then you can work a bit more collaboratively
maybe maybe a bit of push and pull then you can
mold each other which i love i love having those
trusty relationships and you can really you can
really play with that then but initially Of course
it has to be us and our environments that mould
around the children. Meet them where they're
at, almost. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You
know, that piece you were talking about, that
push and pull, that's negotiation. That is quite
a high level. It's conversation. Communication.
It is. And it's high level. I think that's the
point. It is high level. And these children that
are... globally, developmentally, cognitively
disabled and aren't there yet in any area, especially
if it's speech and language, why are we having
that expectation that they can negotiate or understand
and reason? Even if they're regulated, they might
not be able to do that, let alone if they are
in complete dysregulation. not safe ultimately
none of us can negotiate when we're not feeling
safe we've all got on that erratic moment where
we kind of lose ourselves and afterwards we always
think don't we I should have said this and I
should have said this and oh my goodness I should
have said this but we don't in the moment because
you lose your ability to reason and negotiate
when you're in that zone don't you Physiologically,
absolutely yes. So what's happening at that point
when you're in fight, flight, freeze is the part
of your brain that is in charge of pumping out
the hormones and the neurotransmitters are going
to keep you safe. The part of your brain that's
going to pump out adrenaline and cortisol to
be able to run away and, you know, keep yourself
safe, fight off, whatever. The brain doesn't
allow you to do that lovely higher level frontal
cortices. If I do this, what will be the consequences?
Projecting myself forward through time to weigh
it up. You have no access to that part of your
brain. So when you're in fight, flight, freeze,
fight, flight, freeze, and I'm going to add in
fawn as well. So when you're in those states
where you're trying to make yourself safe, that's...
all that's available to you. None of that high
-level language, negotiation, compromise, none
of that's available to you. Yeah, so even if
you understand those really complex social structures
and communication, which is a huge ask anyway
of any learner, let alone one neurodivergent
and has all that kind of social dynamic stuff
going on as well, even if they know all of that,
if they're not feeling safe, they can't access
it. I suppose that goes along with our adults
as well in our room. Lots of our special education
teachers not only support the children, but we've
got a big team to manage as well. And I suppose
this goes with them. If they're not feeling safe,
they're also not going to be responding to the
children in a reasonable way. They're not going
to reason. They're not going to negotiate. They're
not going to take a step back, going to be able
to take a step back. and be curious, because
they're also not feeling safe. They're also running
on adrenaline. And I feel like as a manager of
that team, that dynamic, that's what makes special
education teachers work. You know, that's what
makes the job. We don't have to do marketing.
We don't have to take work home. But we do have
to manage this environment of adults and children.
and encourage that level of safety for everybody
so that we can manage in a firming way. And I
feel like that often gets missed and you can
see why it does. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And
I think, you know, when we're thinking about
safety, we're thinking about teachers and we're
thinking about TAs and all the stuff that's going
on in the classroom. You know, that whole kind
of call and pull on your own nervous system.
That if you think about what that demands of
you, it means that you are probably running on
cortisol, running on that stress hormone day
after day after day. And the knock on for you
means because cortisol is a hormone that developed
millennia ago in order to give you that little
emergency power pack to get the rock out of your
way to run away from the saber tooth tiger. If
you're running on this all day, all night, week
after week, term after term, it means you're
not drinking enough water. You're not eating
healthy food. You're not sleeping well. You're
not replenishing your own relationships to support
you. So how can you pour out from your cup? when
the environment and the task that you're with
is actually depleting your own nervous system.
I could just feel every special education teacher
and every SEN parent now just nodding because
that's exactly what it feels like in a lot of
ways. I mean, I have so much privilege that as
a teacher in my position that I can teach two
days a week. It means I can be my absolute best
self. I can give it 100%. I can give it everything.
I come in on a Thursday when they're... exhausted
from three days I can come in and I am refreshed
and I can be everything they need me to be for
two days and then I get respite and I love that
because I couldn't be the teacher I want to be
on five days a week I know I couldn't so I really
am grateful for the privilege of of being able
to do that for two days um and if you are a full
-time teacher I suppose what are the way what
are ways what are ways that we can think of that
and could support you if you're feeling that
i suppose it's delegation um it doesn't always
have to be you you know lean on your adults if
you've got four or five adults in your room you
know you can swap out too it doesn't always have
to be you i'm a big advocate for me being the
first one to say can we swap please or you know
and be modeling that i think it's really important
Yeah. And actually kind of, you know, being secure
enough to understand that because everything
comes from connection and safety is feeling grounded
and secure and alert, it is absolutely okay just
to prioritize connection. What are we doing here?
We're not trying to bring in whistles and bells.
We are just engaging with each other in ways
that make us both feel safe. That's enough. That's
learning. That's supporting growth and development
and nurture. I get in trouble for this, but I
had a meeting with my senior leadership team
this week, actually. And she said, there are
three hours in your day of no lessons. And I
said, oh, but that's when we do our best learning.
It might not be called English or maths or science,
but that's when we learn. That's when we connect.
That's when we regulate. That's when we have
our best communication. That's when we have our
best interaction. Please don't take that away.
That there, what we need, that was what makes
us great. That's what makes us be able to focus
in those other three hours that are learning.
And yeah, I feel like that's something that we
all need to kind of really hold on tight to is
that time to connect. It's precious. If I was
to put another three hours of lessons in there
and do six lessons a day, it wouldn't happen
because we wouldn't be regulated. We wouldn't
feel safe. We wouldn't be ready. We wouldn't
build connections. Everything, everything would
fall apart. We need those three hours throughout
the day, not in one block. We need those three
hours throughout the day to have that. Yeah,
it is such a rebellious but important idea to
hold on to. That actually, when you start looking
at how to make everybody in the classroom flourish,
you're looking at outcomes, not processes. that
everybody's journey to get where they're going
is going to look a little bit different. And
yes, structure can be helpful. Of course, it
is really helpful. In fact, it's one of the five
ways it's most helpful. But if it's structure
at the expense of time to engage, time to regulate,
time to make sense of what's going on, to make
sense of yourself, time to explore advocating
for yourself in an appropriate way time to play
and to understand that joyful engagement play
is how your brain makes new connections then
it's counterproductive it's wasting time effort
resources and wasting the one opportunity for
education these children have yeah and the most
important as well i feel like knowing their bodies
and how to manage their bodies and their big
feelings and their voice is the biggest lesson
we're ever going to teach them yeah If they can't
do that, then what's the point of them being
able to know all the prime numbers? Or what's
the point of them being able to work out change
really easily or really quickly if they can't
then get on a bus and ask for their ticket? They
have to be able to be regulated. They have to
be able to be as independent as possible, confident
beings, don't they? And that happens in between
lessons. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that sense of
myself allows me then to have a sense of other.
And it's in that that I then start to be able
to engage and learn and negotiate with the world.
Yeah. Yeah. I like that we can, it's rebellion.
It does feel, this job feels rebellious in lots
of ways. I often feel like I'm swimming up river
or going against the grain. I'm part of a mainstream
school. So I'm special education. I'm the only
class, special education class in the mainstream
school. So there's lots of misunderstanding,
lots of preconception that I... I feel like every
time I'm in, I'm swimming up river. So if anyone's
listening to this and feeling the same, it's
completely normal. And it's also okay to kind
of be confident with what you're doing and to
stand up for what you're doing. Whether it's
a head teacher, your teaching assistant, a parent
or Ofsted, be confident. If you know you are
meeting your children's needs, how they need
them to be met, then you're probably doing it
right. Yeah. And I think that taps into some,
you know, a couple of really valuable things
there, Jordan. So that first one is, you know,
yeah, being confident in what you're doing and
being able to explain. I'm doing this because
I'm seeing this. And that's why I'm trying this.
And if I'm right, we'll see this. And if I'm
not right, we'll try something else. You know,
it's not the end of the world. The second is
that whole idea of outcomes, not processes. radical
piece I offer and sometimes kind of I offer it
to teachers and you can see them to kind of take
a big swallow and say, I'm not sure that that's
true. You know, the thing that I offer them is
you are allowed to do things differently. You're
allowed to do things differently. That how other
people do it, how it's been done before, how
you do it other times doesn't mean that's how
it has to be. Yeah. The most dangerous thing
is, but we've always done it that way. Yeah,
absolutely. And that's absolutely fine if you
can tell me why. Why? And, you know, if I put
this piece in to say that this is why it isn't
working, what else have you got? What else have
you got? I think it's really interesting that
we're going through a transition, certainly in
my room at the moment. Over the last couple of
years, the children that we have received have
changed dramatically. They're just different.
They've got different needs. Yeah, they're just
very different than the children were even five
years ago. So the processes and the structures
that we know so well and we, you know, we all
like clockwork aren't working anymore. We aren't
teaching in the same way anymore. We aren't regulating
them in the same way anymore. But it worked before.
They've got the same diagnosis. They've got the
same labels. Of course you have to. It's outcome,
right? We want these children focused. We want
them regulated. What does the process look like
to get there? I love that. And I feel like I'm
going to take that little nugget, like a magpie,
like your name, that bit of treasure, and share
that because... I feel like that could really
help my team understand why this change is inevitable
and why it needs to happen. It's not me being
annoying and wanting to change everything up
just for the sake of it. It's because the process
to get this same outcome is looking incredibly
different for the children in our room compared
to five years ago. Yeah, and resources are tight.
Time is tight. Our energy and compassion is limited.
We cannot afford to waste time. Doing things
in ways that don't work just because that's what
it says on a list or that's how we learned it
at college when we're doing practice. You know,
we have to work with the child who's in front
of us and use everything we've got to just support
them to grow themselves. You can't grow their
brain for them. You have to. create the opportunities
for them to grow themselves and facilitate that
learning i often say i feel like a facilitator
and not a teacher because so often i'm just providing
opportunities and seeing what they already know
or what they can do i'm very rarely saying today
kids we're gonna learn it just doesn't happen
in my room like that i'm just facilitating and
observing and tweaking and helping them to show
me what they already know because i know they
know it and that gives you a great opportunity
to get to tell you one of my favorite little
things which is that you know when you think
about the word education what the meaning the
etymology of the word education is a duco to
pull out to bring forth there's nothing about
putting in it's about bringing out I love that
so much because it's so true isn't it yeah it's
so true that's exactly how I feel I'm like what
about if I do this what about I do this can you
show me can you show me rather than yeah today
I'm going to teaching this. Open your head. Here's
what we're putting inside it today. It just doesn't
work. It certainly doesn't work in my room. I
mean, I can only speak from my room. I've only
ever been a special education teacher, but it
certainly doesn't work for the kids I teach.
It doesn't work like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And maybe that's how we're taught, you know,
today, kids, we're going to learn, you know,
we have a learning objective in our statements
and is it success criteria? You know, if you've
ticked off these things, then you've been successful.
It doesn't work like that in my room. Sometimes
in my head I'm teaching maths and actually then
we end up with an amazing communication opportunity.
It just is. Opportunity is the word. A learning
opportunity. You know, this is what's available
for learning when someone is safe and curious.
And, you know, you're wasting time trying to
make it an objective if they're not feeling safe
and curious. So we were talking a little minute
ago, weren't we, Jordan, about kind of... And,
you know, particularly thinking about teachers
send teachers and TAs and just, you know, for
parents too, that sense of what it costs you,
you know. And there's a lot of fright stuff out
there on the internet about kind of putting on
your own oxygen mask, but nobody ever tells you
how to do that. And sometimes there's some absolute
rubbish that drives me bonkers about kind of,
you know, make sure to take time for yourself
and have a bath. Yeah, like anybody's got time
to do that. So I've got five things I'm going
to tell you, if that's okay. Love you, T. Five
things that help. And they are evidence -based.
These are things that work with the nervous system,
work with your own nervous system, work with
the child's nervous system. The trick is to see
what they look like for you in this moment. So
context is everything. So those five things are
slow, linear vestibular movement. So rocking
and swaying. So rocking and swaying is always
going to be calming and organizing. But what
rocking and swaying looks like when you have
a baby is very different than when you're working
with a 17 -year -old. So that if you have in
your head as a teacher, as a TA, rocking and
swaying in this moment, what could it look like?
How can I use what I'm working on anyway? to
get rocking and swaying in. So that could be
stuff like if they've got to have parts to do
whatever learning activity they have, to have
the box of parts on the floor. So they're bending
down and picking up. There we go, rocking and
swaying. That's part of the learning activity.
Nobody's going outside of the classroom to sit
on a gym ball. It's part of what's happening.
If you're working with a younger child, it's
row, row, row your boat. If you're working with
babies or in a context where it's your child
and you can hold them, that's rocking while they're
against you. So slow linear vestibular is the
first one. The second is deep pressure tactile.
So it's that, you know, the receptors for deep
pressure, they're really deep in the skin, in
the dermis. So that sense of squash and squeeze.
So squash and squeeze when you're teachers, it's
really difficult to think about kind of, you
know, reluctant. particularly mainstream teachers,
you can't touch the children. You'll end up on
a list if you touch the children. So it's thinking
about what does squash and squeeze mean in what
we're doing now? Is there a way in which the
children can sit between stuff or lean up against
stuff? Is there stuff that they can have and
hold against themselves so the stuff is squashing
and squeezing them? Can they carry a box that
the box is heavy and squashing and squeezing
them? So looking in the context. The third is
low frequency vibration. So low frequency vibration,
so that's the kind of humming, buzzing sound,
not a high buzz, that low buzz that you can almost
feel. Like a drone kind of thing. Droneing, absolutely.
So humming, yawning, sighing, that low frequency
vibration. You know, often that's... Things like
singing, singing together. It's a child leaning
against you while you talk so they can feel your
voice. But for an adult, that could be sitting
in the car, obviously with somebody else driving,
with your head against the window. So having
the vibration of the car just calm you down.
All of those things. So that's low frequency
vibration. Then there's proprioception, my absolute
favourite. Proprioception is the information
you get from your muscles and joints. So any
kind of pushing, pulling, stretching. reaching,
lifting, carrying, any of that. And again, context.
You don't have to get a load of stuff for that.
You just need to, for example, move the teach
strip up higher, the visual table up higher.
So you've got to reach a bit higher to get it.
If you're working with kids in wheelchairs, putting
stuff on the other side of the tray, so they
have to reach a bit further to get it. So looking
contextually at what you can do. And then the
fifth one, predictability. Predictability. If
you don't, if you know what's coming, it's safe.
If it's the same as it was before, it's safe.
If it's somebody you know and trust, it's safe.
Predictability, massively helpful. This is my
top five. I love that. For everybody in the room,
right? Yeah, absolutely for everybody. Yeah,
for you as a... teacher, for you as a SENCO,
for you as a TA, for you as a parent, and my
goodness, for you as a speech therapist in the
school. Yeah, all of those. Yeah, I feel like
that's so true. If we've got movement and we
feel safe and it's predictable, then we feel
a lot more grounded, don't we? Yeah. It's when
somebody's absent or we've all of a sudden got
to have this visitor. We're feeling it as adults,
that unpredictability. Or we've been sat at the
computer too long. I certainly feel that. oh
i need to get outside i need to see the sunshine
get my body moving yeah absolutely and a push
pull stretch so even just you know kind of all
of that you know just a little bit of stretching
you know evidence -based to bring those five
i could really see why having a pet is really
helpful you get that low drone of the purr you
get their weight on you you get that tactile
stroke you go for a walk and you have a nice
stretch all of those things yeah They like their
predictor routine. It meets those five. So no
wonder they're therapeutic and we feel so good
about having a pet. Absolutely. Absolutely. You
mentioned before that we are tight on time and
resources and that's so true. So often I have
DMs saying, we don't have any budget for anything.
Is there a way that we can, that we can make,
that we can find? What are your kind of go -to?
things easily accessible things are great i mean
stretching you're reaching i i just love all
that are there any more that we can really use
for our sensory regulation yeah for sure so you
know you know one of the first things you know
kind of parents and and uh and uh teachers and
other people often ask me is what do i need to
buy and my first is don't buy anything buy nothing
until you've absolutely creatively explored what's
there you know if you're looking for pulling
and pushing, that's opening a door. So what would
be the most helpful thing you could do is to
be a bit less helpful. So what would be great
is you don't open the door, you allow the child
to try opening the door. If you need the furniture
moved out of the way for circle time, why are
you moving it? You know, there's an opportunity
there to use what's there, to use what you're
already doing. So I know it's, you know, my thing
is that You know, the children are best in the
classroom when they feel safe. So keeping kids
in the classroom and helping them to regulate
in the classroom, using what's there because
teachers have not got time for a whole load of
this, that and the other, running around the
field and 20 push -ups and all of that. It's
got to be embedded in what you're doing. So buy
nothing until you've thought about how to use
rock and sway, squash and squeeze, muscles, pull,
push, stretch. low frequency vibration and predictability
in what's already there. And then get creative.
So what would be really useful is something to
put under a child's feet so they've got something
to push their feet down against. And you don't
need to buy a fancy footstool. You can take a
tray out of the drawer, a drawer out of the case
and use that. You can use their school bag in
the... sitting in the bus to do it so don't buy
anything until you've looked first and foremost
at what have you already got and then it's more
likely to be used then isn't it rather than just
them sitting by the back of the cupboard and
also i love that it's in the classroom because
then how affirming is that we're all doing it
it's not just tommy who gets sent out to go and
meet his sensory needs we're all sensory beings
we all can't sit down for a long time you know
we all are stretching us away i mean all of these
strategies great for everybody aren't they i
think good autism practice and good sensory integration
practice is just good practice so yeah keep it
in the classroom get everyone doing get everyone
modeling it we'll all feel better for it we'll
all focus better for it it's really it's definitely
not a waste of time you will find that you do
far less time wasting and far more focused work
after you've spent the time doing something like
this Then if you don't and then it all kind of
goes awry after 15 minutes because you've lost
them. They can't focus for that long. None of
us can. Yeah, kind of before, put the stuff in
before rather than trying to get somebody back
after they're into fight, flight, freeze, doing
it before. That whole thing about what is regulation?
What does it mean to be regulated? When you're
regulated, it means that you feel calm, you feel
alert, you are present and you are ready to engage.
And who doesn't need regulation all day, every
day? It's an ongoing process of managing your
regulation across the day, all day, every day,
every minute of the day. And I would worry that
if a child, you know, with a sensory regulation
need on their HCP was calm all day, that would
worry me because either they're being controlled
with control and compliance, so it's almost through
fear. that they are that calm or that still shall
we say because calm is different than regulated
i would say and still is they're certainly different
than regulated so if they are still all day that
would worry me i would see that as fright say
they're not feeling safe to freely express themselves
and i think that's what we call masking and i
see that a lot in our mainstream classes in my
school i see a lot of A lot of high maskers that
have learned to comply and to be safe, i .e.
to not get in trouble. I need to be still and
I need to look like I'm listening. And they're
probably so busy being still and looking like
they're listening that they're not listening
at all because that's taking all their energy.
So I see that an awful lot, an awful amount,
and it breaks my heart. I see it. So I know it
happens in every school in the UK that there
are these high maskers. So don't assume that
stillness is regulation. I love it when I see
children twiddling and flicking and rocking and
tiptoe walking whilst learning, because that
to me tells me that they feel safe. They feel
ready. They feel, you know, like they're able
to learn and be themselves. And that is when
I feel like they are. Totally agree. Completely
agree. That kind of that vision about kind of
what learning looks like, what the learning state
looks like is so old fashioned and wrong. That's
not what learning looks like. Learning looks
like enthusiastic engagement with a task. That's
what it looks like. So being still is not engaged.
Being still. that that is yeah you're right it
could be a fawn response it could be a freeze
response absolutely it comes from a place where
it's not safe to learn so if you're if you're
if you hope nobody still is but if still people
are still doing that kind of a good sitting good
looking good listening they do i'm saying they
do all over the uk all over the world i'm sure
they do yeah and that's why we're here i think
so many of us in this beautifully fighting for
a firming bubble especially how the algorithms
work we are consuming an echo chamber yes yes
yes all these people yes this we're doing it
we're doing it we're really changing the world
and then you walk into just the average mainstream
score average SEN score might I say and it's
not happening day to day It isn't the norm. I
don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm going
to. Yeah. It isn't. And we've got such a long
way to go. And I feel like that's why your account
is so important because it's giving people access
that are good, well -meaning teachers. Like,
let's not blame him. There's no blame or shame
here. Really well -meaning teachers that love
their students and want to do the best for them
and really want to be inclusive. You know, really
passionate teachers, loving teachers. will come
across your account and think, that's what it
is. That's what I'm missing. That's why it's
so important. That's why this podcast is important.
That's why, that's what drives me to keep sharing
because if everyone was doing it, I'll retire.
Unfortunately, I've got a little few more years
left, I think, before it's in every school. I
think it's worth thinking about as well, where
our brains and our nervous systems and our bodies
have come from, in terms of where we sit along
other forms of life. We are the same kind of
form of life as gorillas and monkeys and apes,
and they don't learn best by sitting still. Why
on earth would our bodies learn and develop best
by sitting still? There's no sense in which sitting
still, Sitting fixedly is universally the best
way to take part or engage. That playful engagement,
joyful engagement includes managing your own
regulation with movement as you're learning.
It has to, it has to. I guess it's a muscle that
we've got to exercise because it certainly feels,
I suppose, one teacher, a room of 30 kids can
be really daunting. And it's even more daunting
to think they're not sitting on their chairs
and they're still, you know, they're all moving.
The idea of that I can imagine is really daunting
for teachers. Of course you want to control the
chaos. So that's a natural way to control the
situation. But is it the best way? Let's be curious
about that. Yeah. Let's ask that. And actually
the curiosity is, is it the only way and is it
always the way? So, you know, the mainstream
schools I work in, even where they come from
quite a traditional approach, sometimes, you
know, they're still within learning within the
classroom. There are kind of breakouts and group
work and stuff and kids are moving around the
classroom or moving around the school to some
extent. But it's just sort of unhooking from
an idea that learning looks one way. Yeah, and
planning it, being intentional about it. Don't
do it accidentally. Oh, yeah, I suppose we did
move around a bit today. Plan for it. Yeah. Look
back at your lesson plan that you've planned
for your hour and think, are there enough opportunities
to move? How have I... And embed them. Plan for
it, I think, because then it will happen. It
will be more integrated. And I think it's like
a muscle that you have to exercise. Then you'll
just do it naturally because you'll have put
those things in, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean,
I know you know, Jordan, that once you start
using this sensory integration... lens for what
you're doing you can't imagine how you used to
teach without it I can't imagine how I used to
think I was doing speech therapy without it I
can't believe how much time and effort and energy
I wasted without doing this I thought I was being
more efficient but of course I wasn't you know
I can't you can't unsee it once you get it yeah
it's true I feel like I suppose working in my
room my learners are it's so clear sensory integration
is required and regulation is required you know
it's literally in your face and I feel like that's
really great to sometimes have that magnifying
glass to see that and then to take that magnifying
glass and look at all the other classes because
then you're seeing it through that lens as you
as you say I can't help but see the mainstream
classrooms through the lens of my room yeah which
is which maybe I need to be more gracious and
the other teachers because they they aren't they
haven't exercised that lens yeah and I think
you know I absolutely I think you know teachers
do an amazing job you know it's don't I genuinely
am staggered that you all can keep going given
what's been happening in the UK in the last however
many years so you know if you're doing an absolutely
staggering brilliant brilliant job I am full
of admiration for teachers I do not have the
fortitude to be a teacher you know Just amazing
work. And there is still more to do, more to
learn. But I think the things that really kind
of grabs me with sensory integration is when
you're working in this way, nobody's expecting
you to do more. They're expecting you to do different
so you can do less. Yeah. Working in a different
way, letting go of conceptions or misconceptions
about what things should look like, what learning
should look like. in order not to waste your
effort, energy, time, resources and yourself.
It takes so much time trying to manage behaviour.
It takes so much time writing up behaviour reports.
It takes so much time phone calls with parents.
You know, how much time are we wasting doing
that when actually we could have spent 10 minutes
having a dance break and a stretch break and
a hum all together to avoid that? Yeah, yeah.
And nobody goes into teaching to manage behaviour.
Nobody does. Nobody thinks what I really like
to do is spend my time lecturing year eights
about why they must have run down the corridor.
And that also, that breaks teachers down too,
because we're such empaths. You know, you go
into teaching and nursing and, you know, all
of that because you care, you really care. And
seeing your student distressed and in crisis.
really does wear you down and and also if you're
feeling helpless in all of that then that's going
to wear you down too so having a strategy on
board and having that the whole class you know
behind the strategy and it not being singled
out could could really help I think try and get
that energy back everybody likes to have a mission
don't they and I think if you've all got that
outcome in mind and you're all working you know
towards the same goal then that could be really
great altogether rather than seeing it as a challenge
or as a extra thing more more more extra oh what
does she want me to do yeah I want you to I want
you to be able to do less and I guess the place
to start if nothing else is if you catch yourself
thinking things should look or be done a certain
way if you just ask yourself why do I think that
that's the place to start because once you start
to think actually I'm just assuming because that's
the way I was taught how to do it once you start
thinking could there be other ways to get to
the outcome with a different process that's where
it all starts to yeah question yeah I think that's
a really great thing to end on actually I often
give myself homework after these podcast episodes
and I think that's a really great one so for
this week for us all to be keep that curiosity
about our own intention about our own desires
you know am I a bad teacher was that a bad lesson
or actually Did we just not regulate beforehand
or was it just not appropriate? Or did I just
do it in the wrong environment? You know, question
those things. It just makes us better, doesn't
it? Rather than being disappointed because you're
setting yourself up to fail, basically. Yeah.
And just that whole sense of, you know, one of
the beautiful things about sensory integration
is that... You know, we didn't know this when
I was training as a speech therapist 150 years
ago. We used to think that early years, yeah,
your brain was knitting itself up and then you
were cooked. But now that knowledge that your
brain is learning, adapting, changing every minute
of the day for your whole life. So no matter
how bad things have been in the past, there's
always the possibility for change and growth
and doing things differently. There's always
that possibility. It never stops. We never stop
growing, changing, adapting. never amazing and
that is a perfect segue because i know that everybody
listening is going to want to follow you on your
socials so where can they find you amy so i'm
on linkedin and i'm on instagram i have because
it didn't sit ethically right with me i have
got rid of some of the social media channels
which previously i had you know big kind of followings
on but I can't do that. It's not right. So that's
currently where I am or my website. So achatterofmagpies
.com. There's information there and kind of links
through to other sensory resources. Can I flag
up a resource that I'm not involved in, but,
you know, I think is a great one, which is Sensory
Inclusive Schools. So that's from Sensory Integration
Education. They've got lots of resources there
for teachers. amazing thank you so much amy such
an important conversation um and i really hope
that everybody listening feels inspired yeah
i certainly do so thank you so much lovely to
talk to you thank you so much thanks