Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome to another podcast.
Today I am joined by Ruth, a speech and language
therapist who shares everything affirming and
AAC related on social media. Hello Ruth. Hi,
thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being
here. I think yours was one of the first accounts
that I started following last year when I began
sharing all of this kind of stuff. And I was
so inspired by your affirming approach. That's
been a real target for me. this year to get more
affirming and purposefully more affirming not
just what I used to think was the kindest thing
but actually really purposeful and really putting
in training and research into you know what is
what does affirming mean yeah so what I mean
that's how I would describe you and your account
but do you want to say a little bit about yourself
and how you got into the space yeah um Well,
yeah, I'm a speech -language therapist and I
have only ever really worked with additional
needs at neurodivergent children and young people.
And I guess kind of after the birth of my first
child, I went part -time and started exploring
independent practice and working kind of what
we know as privately. And I, up until last year,
was working employed and a little bit of private
practice. I found that I was working less and
less with other speech therapists and really
missing that space of like coming back to a therapy
team and reflecting together. And so I suppose
for me, that's what social media became was just
the space to kind of share some of those reflections,
like some of those bits and pieces that I might
find useful to share with other people during
my day. And that's not what I use it for, really.
I don't really know why I have social media,
I guess. It's just that connection piece that's...
Absolutely. It ends up as a really... amazing
staff room of people that you create in your
pocket at all times to either share your findings
with and celebrate because it's really important
to celebrate the wins as well isn't it rather
than to an empty room it's really exciting to
share it with people that get how big these small
steps are it's really great but yeah to also
to ask advice and I've learned so much this year
just from kind of putting myself out there yeah
yeah from all of you guys really who all have
a speciality in different things you can kind
of build up this incredible team of people all
over the world as well yeah I think there's something
really I guess for me I was saying I don't know
why I have it part of it is probably because
I feel strongly about the shift in practice that
I think should happen for our neurodivergent
children young people and adults and and I guess
it's kind of having that space to share some
of those reflections and thoughts isn't it and
build a like -minded network and and learn from
each other when you know sometimes continuing
professional development opportunities they're
really expensive and you know when we recognize
some of the barriers to that in terms of privilege
in terms of position within education or within
therapy like an access to that paid training
is so difficult and for parents to get access
to professionals yes you can't give like individual
advice but if there's just a space that might
just offer somebody a little nugget of something
where they go oh I could do that differently
or oh that could really benefit a child I work
with or my child yeah I think that's one of the
joys of social media really isn't it and you
know having space to kind of open some critical
conversations about things as well yeah it's
crucial and that definitely started me on my
more affirming journey because I thought I was
but until we very rarely get to watch or observe
other people in our job it's quite a lonely existence
really and same for speech and language therapists
and same for special ed teachers you're kind
of locked in the room and off you go and you
think you're doing the best you go on the odd
training day maybe but you don't really get to
see other teachers in practice so when I was
seeing teachers on social media talking about
they were doing this does that practice I thought
I need to learn more about this I could do better
and I think that's a really great mindset to
have as well isn't it yeah I think there's I
don't know who said it but I've definitely seen
a quote that like one of the most dangerous things
in language is but we've always done it this
way and I feel like yeah actually that's so much
of what we do in education globally in education
but also within sort of like additional needs
is just that That's just what we've always done.
And I think there's so many practices where if
we just take a step back. And I think that's
one of the biggest challenges within education.
I was only talking to some teaching assistants
and teachers today about having space to take
that step back. And again, that's a bit of a
privilege, really. It isn't afforded to so many
people. um but it's really important to work
in an affirming way because actually it is taking
that step back and thinking about what's going
on and how we're doing things and why we're doing
things it's something I don't have an easy answer
to but it's so much on my radar is like the well
-being of staff within education sector and how
that then impacts on capacity to be affirming
or to learn about affirming practice and those
things feel really interlinked it's hard isn't
it because The unaffirming practices look like
they work in some regards. So you might be coming
from a place where you think, but it worked for
this child. You've got these stories in your
mind. I've worked for 15 years in special ed
before I started thinking about affirming practices
consciously. So I've got years of experience.
But that helped him to communicate. That helped
her to access things. And I think that's the
danger, isn't it, is, yes, these systems sometimes
do help children communicate, but at what cost?
And I think that's the question that we need
to now ask ourselves. And the more people are
asking, thank goodness, it definitely seems like
there's a massive shift in the speech and language
world, if you will, in special ed, is at what
cost? That's the question that we're asking ourselves.
So, yes, we want them to communicate, but at
what cost? hand -over -hand practices yes it
might teach them what we're expecting but is
it through control and compliance rather than
actually what leads them and that they're the
kind of questions that we're asking ourselves
i've certainly noticed the shift have you seen
that similar shift more recently or has that
been happening For years. It's really interesting
because I reflect back on things. And so when
I first qualified in 2010, and it was like, you
know, there were particular trainings that everyone
went on, there were particular practices, particularly
with non -speaking, minimally speaking children,
there were things that we did. And then I remember
learning about aided language input as like a
method of teaching. And there was this video
on YouTube that I used to use in training. And
it's like a cartoon video. And there's like a
child who walks along with their like... device
and it's like and nobody was using the device
and so the child didn't use the device and then
it's like the video is like and then everyone
started using the device and now they're you
know and I used to use that a lot in training
and kind of think about things differently and
core boards and core vocabulary which have been
around for years but they just particularly I've
only ever really worked very specifically in
the early parts of my career in the autism field
so I was in specialist residential provisions
for high support needs autistic children and
so I just don't think that was part of it because
it didn't have that gold standard evidence base
or maybe it did I don't know it just wasn't the
thing and I think it's just the thing is how
it's always been done that's exactly what you
said right yeah this is what we've always done
this is the training we've been on and that we've
spent lots of money on so this is what we're
going to do and I think that's where you get
into that cycle of rather than questioning and
being curious about actually is this actually
helpful and I inherited a caseload and most of
them were using certain communication systems
and that's what we worked on and then I kind
of did some reading I did some learning um and
I was like we can get like Firstly, devices,
that was a thing that started to come about.
Like when I trained, iPads didn't exist. So this
is all very new. And AAC devices were like typewriters
and, you know, things like that. So it became
accessible via iPad. So we started looking at
that. And then I started seeing kids using these
devices. And I was like, well, hang on, if they
can use it, what about their peers who maybe
could access paper -based systems? Even if we
don't have that level of privilege and access
to funds for a device, we could try it this way.
Some of the sessions we used to have where we'd
go along and do aided language input and like
model different verbs, for example. And suddenly
kids, instead of saying like, I want the toy,
they're saying go and stop. And I like it within
20 minutes. You've given them so much more additional
vocabulary. And it's like that became really
powerful. And I think then when we started to
see progress and I could deliver training with
the teams and. I had an incredible team, particularly
I worked with some incredible speech therapy
assistants and occupational therapy assistants
who would just like hammer it home whenever they
were going into their sessions. They were like
my like aided language champions. And the progress
we saw in some of those kids so quickly. And
they're the ones where you think, gosh, like
we made that shift a long time ago. This is like,
you know, 10 years ago now. But how many kids
before that? have missed out on language you
can't think like that can you because I think
we trained a similar year and I was 2009 so yeah
we're training a similar year and now if I keep
catching myself thinking if only I knew then
what I know now because I think of this child
and that child I I didn't quite reach them or
yeah I I could have done more and I think yeah
but what about the children in 10 years time
how much are we going to know then and i think
we just need to kind of accept our own journey
don't we but yeah i i totally fall into that
trap too yeah if you find this i started using
uh ac on high -tech devices on ipads two years
ago but only with two students and it came to
us through a speech language referral which is
how we kind of got introduced to all this whole
world of it really and which is amazing but it
was used with two students That had always done
the system that we're talking about. So the,
you know, the hand over your hand kind of visual
system in a book. And that's mainly around requesting,
right? So like you say, I want this, I want this.
There's no real base for just commenting on life
really, is there? And what I noticed was that
that was then their automatic use of their high
tech iPads. So even though they had thousands
of words, all accessible to them and we were
modeling. Their go -to was at snack time and
I want. And it wasn't communication. It was very
much I press this button as a rigid routine and
then I open the packet myself. There was no initiation
for relationship. There was no drive to build
that rapport. It wasn't there. It was very much
rigid routine, press button, open packet. And
then since then, we've now got iPads for all
of my learners in my class. And we're seeing
it's done so differently, even though we've not
changed, with learners that have never gone through
that system that are doing this fresh. Right
from the start, they've got all the words. We're
seeing so much fringe vocabulary, so much commenting.
Yeah, sentence building, guest style, language
phrases, phrases, you know, really exciting stuff.
And I just think, wow. You know, it really does
have an impact. I was really pleased that it
was started. I'm really pleased that they did
it. I'm sure it's never too late. Are you seeing
that kind of thing as well? Yeah, I think in
my experience, I've worked with some significantly
prompt dependent children because of particular
approaches to their whole behaviour, like not
just to the communication. And I think sometimes
what we can do is kind of reward the personality
out of somebody, you know, in terms of what we
expect. I think, you know, when you listen to
particularly the autistic community, there are
some adults who really advocate for approaches
that they say really, really helped them. So
this is not a, you know, we have to use nuance
and we have to use critical thinking skills when
we're looking at different children and how we're
going to support them. But when you listen to
the lived experience of the adult community.
On the most part, they kind of talk about the
challenges that these sorts of approaches give.
And in my clinical experience and what I've seen
is I would agree at the time when you're implementing
it, it's like, wow, this is incredible. And I
think that there is opportunity for other kind
of, like you say, sort of different functions
of communication further down the line. But I
think it's not just the functions of communication.
It's the way, the method of teaching. And for
me, communication starts with connection. And
that connection can be without any AAC just to
start with. And I work with children now. I have
such a privilege to work with children long term.
And so I could work with them for years. And
you just build that connection. And when you
build that connection and you join them in what
they are kind of. what they're tuning into and
what they're enjoying. And you then can make
communication. Even without AAC, you make it
fun and you make it meaningful and you make it
individualized. I find then when you start to
map on AAC tools, paper -based or device -based,
because I'm not one of those people that's like
devices are best. There are different tools for
different people, but devices are great. You
see so much progress because you've done that
connection piece tuning in and not kind of leading
and I think there's so much to be said for that
approach of like child led where we can just
see and observe and be with children and what's
kind of getting them going because that's where
you need to tune in with starting to teach communication
and I think back like again to sessions I would
have run and we'd have run some brilliant sensory
sessions that kids just got to choose what they
want and we kind of had a nice structure of a
start point and an end point and like little
bits of sensory circuits. And then I'd have other
sessions where you would just be like going with
like, you know, the same activity and like requesting,
yeah, for like a piece of Mr. Potato Head. And
I'm like, is there any wonder why perhaps at
times it's just didn't want to engage? And so
I think that's been a real shift for me over
the years. And I think also one thing I sort
of wonder is how much I'm in my little happy
bubble with my bubble of social media that tells
me everybody's doing the same thing. And, you
know, it can't be the case, can it? Because not
everybody's. following the same algorithms getting
the same information yeah it's definitely true
that it can become an echo chamber can't it of
affirming practices especially when it's at your
work it's at your home it's in your pocket in
your social media it's your friendship basis
it definitely feels like a wonderful bubble and
yeah it it's a shock when your bubble gets burst
and it does sometimes like you end up on the
wrong algorithm or you for you you know sometimes
in dms as well you get kind of comments or messages
that aren't quite worded you know as you would
word them or you know whatever and yeah it does
it bursts the bubble for sure doesn't it yeah
yeah no there's still a long way to go and actually
that's what drives me to keep going I don't know
if you agree yeah well I think that's it because
you think gosh what's the point because everybody's
doing it and then suddenly like no no they're
not and you know I think it's it's hard isn't
it because I do think that this feels like the
right way But equally, I see the barriers and
the challenges that different intersections and
marginalized communities experience and equally
that the pressures on the education system. So
it's lovely kind of going, oh, well, let's just
do child -led practice. You know, even my speech
therapy colleagues who work for the health service
and have caseloads that are huge, like they don't
have that same capacity to do that sort of work
and to work alongside staff teams in the classrooms.
every week you know those kinds of things that
yeah and I think there's that then becomes the
challenge and then I kind of get myself in like
right we'll petition the government and we'll
do all these things because it just doesn't feel
feel good enough and there's like a kind of balance
I think between having the impact for those few
children that you can you know like be your class
for my caseload and hoping that the practice
filters through in the settings that they're
in and equally then having this little space
on social media for anyone who wants to join
along to be like here's some information you
know and that parents can take to their you know
children's teachers and TAs and I think it's
it's providing like critical conversation isn't
it it's not saying like everything you're doing
is wrong but just have you kind of again taken
that step back and looked at what is going on
and why because I've I love the most affirming
practices but then I'm also been in conversations
where they're clearly not doing it in a child
-led way even though that's what the training
says even though i couldn't imagine a world in
which you could get it wrong but but ultimately
of course you can you know if you're doing it
um you could do anything you could yeah i mean
god intensive interaction for example i feel
like it's so child -led i mean god they're literally
like showing to do they are literally leading
the session but if you're getting too close to
a child too quickly, taking their toys from them
and trying to use them or rearranging their play
too quickly, mimicking them when they're clearly
distressed. All those kind of things can look
like you're doing intense attraction, but clearly
isn't child led, clearly isn't affirming. I say
clearly, maybe it isn't. And that's why we need
to be having these conversations. So not just
mentioning these words and mentioning training,
but repeatedly so that we can keep. open conversation
of what actually is it what actually does it
look like and it's really hard because none of
us can actually share our real sessions with
our real children and I do say you know my attention
autism sessions look very different with my group
because like people say you know do all your
children sit down on chairs and just work some
are laying some are pacing in and out some choose
not to join that's cool it's okay but it's really
hard to show that isn't it you give the impression
of quiets it down actually of course that is
what it is no no the reality is very different
isn't it and i think that is that's one thing
you know that's another practice that i feel
like like i love like i love the kind of you
know that irresistible invitation that's the
kind of phrase i always take from that that approach
um and kind of curiosity isn't it but equally
i think that's the sort of approach where again
people take it and they deliver it in such a
rigid way where there is this set of expectations
and actually that then takes something and turns
it into really quite not affirming practice.
Compliance, control and everything. And I think
that was my fear of even using that whole system
in the first place. But speaking to the directors,
it was really interesting. I had them on the
podcast and I really was kind of use it to like,
can you convince me that this is a good thing?
Because I'm not convinced. And they totally did.
They were like, no, that isn't what we teach
at all. They said we had one photo of all the
children sat down. We've never spoken about it.
We just had one photo and all of a sudden, you
know, and all of these kind of things. I think,
yeah, it can really be twisted, can't it? Like
lots of these, lots of these things. Yeah. And
I think partly, again, that goes back to access
to training, because how many people would have
been on attention autism training, but actually
it isn't the approach training. So they've been
on something that's kind of talking about attention
autism and, you know, but it isn't. it isn't
necessarily delivered by the official folks and
then it does sometimes the message gets lost
because the focus is also okay to question the
big dogs as well like don't just assume because
they're the director or or they're the big thing
that everyone's talking about because we've had
lots of other big things that lots of people
are talking about a new thing like let's question
it and I love one of my TAs the other day like
again we can get so institutionalized accidentally
can't we that we for hello time we had an ipad
and we had good morning on it and our pnld students
would come in and we'd show them and they'd reach
for it and they'd say good morning always in
the same voice always a female voice and they're
not they're male you know all these things and
we'd just do it every morning oh that's lovely
and my team said they might not have had a good
morning they might not want to say good morning
Are we giving them another option to not say
good morning? And why is it a girl's voice? It
needs to be, we need to get one of the year five
boys to do it. You know, all of this. And I love
her for that so much because sometimes you just
need someone to question and all of a sudden
it popped me up in my mind when I thought, yeah,
you're so right. What is the purpose of this?
Why are we starting with good morning for a start?
Like that's not functional. It started unraveling
all this questioning. And that was only recently.
And it's already changed so much around that
session and what is actually what we're using
it for. What's the purpose? It really questioned
it. Just that little question. So don't think
just because they're the teacher or because they're
the speech and language therapist or because
they're the system that everyone's using that's
on their EHCP, don't think you can't question
it because that is really healthy. to be curious
and they might say oh it's because of this and
have a really good answer and then that's fine
but it's always good to be curious because sometimes
what those questions make change make real really
good change yeah they do and I think for me there's
something around um like I truly believe that
there's everybody is equal around the table that
team around the child and I think I think sometimes
ego comes into it and people feel I don't want
to say attacked that maybe feels a bit strong
but you know like if there's a question it's
a bit like well you know well because I said
or because I know and you think no actually it's
not it needs to be a critical conversation where
we're exploring these things and you know maybe
we need to look internally if we are that person
that feels discomfort when somebody challenges
something we've said and what shows up for us
in those moments and how do we manage that because
actually everybody's got a right to share an
opinion and to engage in a dialogue about strategies
and approaches. And I think sometimes that's
not always welcomed by everybody, is it? Because
it makes them feel uncomfortable. Exactly. Of
course it does. And it affects your, you know,
self -esteem or whatever is going on for you.
But it is definitely part of the job, isn't it?
The fact is, is there is a team around the child.
There's parents, the teachers, the therapists,
you know. social workers or these children naturally
can't with a big team around them and if we're
all saying different things even if they're all
the right things just the fact that they're different
will make them so much less effective won't they
we once I remember at the HCP meet I had about
10 years ago I don't know why it comes to mind
but it's just a perfect example of this that
we went through all the HCP targets and the mum
said okay so right but what do we start with
then you want me to do music to get them in and
out of the taxi you want me to you know get him
dressing you do this and we're like oh no no
not all at once before he's 25 it's really easy
to like all think our goals or our targets are
the most crucial right and we kind of need to
look at this big picture yeah i think yeah but
what's first like what does the child need right
now and what will have the biggest impact uh
yeah kind of get lost in that don't we yeah I
think it's so easy I was only talking to a parent
today about in the HCP review and saying like
actually the goal setting is really quite boring
bit of it because really what we want to talk
about is the here and now not like the at the
end of the key stage or the next transition point
you want to be like okay like what is going on
now what's like you know the goal for in the
next six weeks and I think that's again one of
those things with kind of the privilege of time
that is afforded to some settings and not to
others to explore that and have those conversations.
Because really, you know, as a therapist, I might
be looking at setting goals for like 12 weeks,
maybe, maybe more, maybe less. Maybe, you know,
sometimes I feel like I kind of half set goals
and just sort of wander along and see what happens
in that time. And, you know, inevitably progress
happens and change happens, but it might not
be quite what you planned it to be, particularly
with. more complex you know high support needs
individuals because yeah how do you know what
they might achieve you know we've talked to me
about when you get that AAC tool right and what
you thought my goodness yes they know and they
show us they know that and you're like whoa and
yeah it sort of blows your goals out the water
which is great absolutely and you see it time
and time again don't you I say it a lot I don't
know I don't know if you feel like this as well
but I I say I'm not really a teacher I'm just
a facilitator and I just put together activities
that I think will allow them to show me what
they already know rather than activities where
they are learning this new skill often it's like
do you know this and if I do this and if I do
this like it really does feel like that it's
always like they're like a present and we kind
of like slowly undo the ribbon like it's all
there it's just like how can you show us you
know what can we do to help you show us what
you No, and yeah, I mean, high tech AAC has been
a huge unraveling for us in my classroom. It's
really been quite exciting because it has allowed
my students to show us what, like even just part
of what they can do and what they know, which
is really exciting. It's when you see the personality
come through, I think that's the thing, like
working with a child a couple of years ago and
we introduced AAC this particular child's big
into dinosaurs or playing with the dinosaurs.
And I like pick up one. I'm like, oh, triceratops.
And then like they were saying, like not triceratops,
like looking, laughing, you know, like joking,
basically joking. And you think it's a joke.
And then it became the game, you know, was that
I'd pick something up and say it was this. And
then they'd say not that. we were like had so
much joy in that interaction and so much communication
was happening but it was so meaningful and it
was so fun and you think that child would not
have access to the vocabulary triceratops or
even not you know like that word is often we
think don't think about rejecting and protesting
when we kind of set up AAC tools and historically
um and I think it's really it's really powerful
when you see it even years ago I remember working
And we were introducing AAC to a child on a device.
And the teacher like phoned me down and they
were really quite distressed, the child. And
so I kind of ran over and I was like, I'll bring
the iPad and we'll just see. And the child like
had some vocalizations. And so they were making
a vocalization. The teacher said, oh, they mean,
I think they were saying like, oh, they mean
bedroom. Like I've told them that it's not time
for their bedroom. We're going to stay like it's
classroom time and it's residential setting.
So kind of bedroom was right there. We got the
device and the child said, bus, bus, bus. And
the teacher said, oh my God, we were meant to
go on the minibus, but like we couldn't because
of something else. And you're like, okay. So
then we like quickly wrote a social story. And
this child just literally, you could watch them
deflate, like from severely agitated, really,
really quite distressed. And I was like, but
they didn't have the word bus. And we're presuming
that they meant bedroom because of that vocalization.
How frustrating. No wonder that they were so
distressed like and another one I remember introducing
on an iPod touch like this again was quite a
long time ago and this particular child had taken
the device home over a holiday and came back
and the parent was saying oh you won't believe
it they asked for blackcurrant and this child
was like 15 and they were like I've just always
presumed the noise of an apple juice and that's
what they had so for 15 years this child had
been drinking apple juice and this parent was
like wow. And like, how powerful is that? Like,
they obviously didn't mind the apple juice, but
equally that noise was kind of presumed that
apple juice was what they meant. And then when
you had this different set of vocabulary that
they'd got, suddenly it's like, oh, now they
can try some blackcurrant juice. And you're like,
and that's the power of a varied vocabulary,
isn't it? And like robust systems as opposed
to kind of, you know, systems where we don't
necessarily get that breadth of language and
that breadth of vocabulary and that capacity
to share. things internally and so most get eaten
chewed ripped apart loves and then it takes you
well at least 24 hours to make it again if not
way longer and then they've lost their voice
for all that time yeah it's just yeah it's really
tricky isn't it um yeah and i can't even imagine
how frustrating it is i did once did one day
of not speaking for a day to use money for charity
And I failed completely. I spoke about 10 times
in the day. It's so hard when it's your first
means of communication. So yeah, I just think
they're amazing. And how well they communicate
when minimally speaking or non -speaking as well.
They really do get their needs known. And it
may not be the safest or appropriate way, but
they definitely get their needs known for the
most part. really give them credit for that it's
incredible how they find ways to communicate
what they need and want which is just basic needs
isn't it I wonder I really hope that through
this affirming practices that mental health figures
improve as well I was reading some awful percentages
today that um well with analytical learners one
in four people one in ten sorry will um have
a some kind of mental health um struggle in their
life that's just a standard and then if you have
um a neurodivergence or a cognitive disability
it's one in four and then if you have a physical
disability on top of that it's 85 and they don't
even know the figures really because these kids
aren't easy to get medical research for that
from yeah but they've done enough to work out
that it's at least 85 i mean they're horrifying
numbers like I can't hear that and want to make
a change absolutely and then thinking back to
your child that you were just talking about that
was distressed and couldn't have words well surely
communication and regulation are the start of
improving mental health surely yeah I think it's
got to be and I think It's then almost again
taking that step back as to, okay, so what's
the lens through which we're viewing these difficulties?
And how do we then kind of support that communication
and regulation? And I think that is then part
of the bigger conversation around behavior support
and the narrative through which we view the way
that some of these children show up at times.
I recently did an inset day training at a school.
We were talking to them about how... you know
Ross Green's work and particularly around ADHD
children but I think it is for all children in
my view that kids do well when they can and I
think for me that is so powerful because if a
child is not doing well you know firstly whose
expectation is what is well and that's a question
in itself um but then if they're not like we
need to look at what's going on around them right
and thinking about their internal state those
basic needs are they met can they communicate
that Do they feel safe and secure? Do they feel,
you know, are they fed? Are they watered? Like,
have they had a good rest? Do they need the toilet?
Do they know if they need the toilet? You know,
are they uncomfortable? Exactly. And I think
we then kind of look at that and then the next
piece around them becomes that, OK, so how do
we work out what's going on and then teach them
the ways to regulate that and communicate that?
And also thinking about, for me, part of that
is the environment. And that inclusive communication
environment that's going on. But I also think
sometimes the activities, you know, like I see
some kids who perhaps are presenting as not doing
so well and that kind of challenging time. But
I think is that because the activity is too hard?
or not hard enough, and therefore they're a bit
disinterested in creating their own entertainment.
Or too overstimulating or understimulating and
uninteresting. That's it. And I think also for
me, part of that is also recognising that fluctuating
capacity of neurodivergent kids, right? Because
they might be able to do something one day that
they can't do the next day, or even in the morning
that they can't do in the afternoon. And that,
for a lot of people, can be quite baffling. But
if we take an affirming approach and an honouring
approach, it is about... believe in kids tuning
in and getting to know them and getting to know
when are those times to perhaps push and perhaps
kind of encourage a bit more and when are the
times to just go that's cool i can see you're
done we need to focus on that regulation piece
let's bring your energy back in line whether
it's too low too high to get you in a better
place and then we'll see what's next you know
um and i think for me so much of that affirming
practice around communication starts at that
level you know starts at taking a step back and
just seeing what's going on and I'm believing
kids you know there's so much power in validation
um around just listening isn't there and I think
that's the case for any kind of level of learner
and support needs you know I could work with
some really high support needs kids and they
might be you know communicating through self
-injurious behavior that their frustration and
just being able to validate say It's really frustrating.
You know, I think there's sometimes this view
in our minds that actually children don't have
capacity for language and don't have capacity
for understanding because of their lack of expressive
language. And yeah, they might not in that moment,
but we can teach it and we have to believe that
they have capacity to understand it. So that
kind of validation and giving, my supervisor
Kate Boot talks about language for experience.
And I think that's it. It's like actually in
those moments, giving some language to the experience
that they're having and honouring. how they're
showing up and then thinking about that step
back and what do we need to do next time to support
communication and regulation in those situations
so would it look like naming maybe what they're
expressing so I can I can see you're frustrated
that you can't do this like is it is it is that
what it sounds like yeah I mean for me sometimes
it sounds like that there is challenge isn't
there in trying to name emotions for somebody
else yeah so how do you navigate that Usually
what I find myself saying is like, this seems
tough or it's hard. I like that. Some things
I can see this is tricky. I sometimes will on
an AAC device, like we use quite a lot of grid
and smart box, but anything they've got one on
their messages, there's just something's wrong.
And so I might just model that, I think, and
say something's wrong. Yeah, because that's not
putting on to them what they're feeling. It's
just I can see something's wrong. Yeah. That
is clear. Yeah. that's still validating isn't
it that that i can see something's wrong i .e
can i help and sometimes i would just say like
i'm here like you know and i do that on a device
i do that with my language i do that with my
body language you know and just be like i'm here
and i'm gonna you know you're safe like it will
be okay but so you can give like language i think
that that kind of validates the experience and
links in with their experiences but also kind
of reassuring nurturing in those moments but
generally like again that's a practice years
ago I'd have been like we label the emotions
and like show them the symbol and now I'm like
okay no that makes so much sense to me yeah I've
always struggled with how to say it so that make
that is makes so much sense and I feel like maybe
the more we do that then becomes easier to find
that language to find that script that isn't
um putting on them what they may not be feeling
and yet still showing them that you're you've
shown up for them yeah and I think like so often
you know the difference between anxiety and frustration
like how do we know that their frustration is
not driven by anxiety and so I think you know
and and some of these kids they don't necessarily
have the skills at this point in time to talk
about what it was but there is sort of comfort
in validation um and one of the things i talk
a lot to staff about is our natural reaction
to say it's okay and actually what i'm trying
to get people to say it's not okay yeah because
again that's that's language their experience
that they're having so i think we can say like
i can see it's not okay you know i can see it's
tricky like i'm here you're safe it will be okay
you know those kinds of things and again you
know the children you're working with to tune
in and know how much language is too much I mean
that's the point as well isn't it that if you've
got a good relationship and a trusting relationship
with this child already which is what I would
like it has to be that way then they will also
know that you mean best as well so even if you
get it wrong or you're too close or whatever
if you've got that trusting relationship there's
there's a little bit more leniency there a little
bit you can kind of work it through together
whereas if you come in and you haven't got those
trust relationships you haven't built that connection
yet it's going to be really tricky and even if
you are saying the right things and doing the
right things it's going to be really hard for
them to trust that you in that moment when they're
completely in flight or flight mode yeah yeah
yeah so it's so important that when just taking
every opportunity to build those connections
and that looks like being led by them doesn't
it yeah yeah definitely and validating and and
you know sort of sharing their joy and also being
there when it's not so joyful yeah not just being
there not just showing up when it's crisis no
I feel like it's really it's really easy to fall
into those traps of certain people certain people's
that they just get on they're just there In the
background, just chilling. They're transitions.
They're pretty happy. They're pretty independent.
Like everyone, well, maybe not everyone's got
one of the cards. I certainly got children like
that in my class. Yeah, and they just kind of
get on. And it's so easy to focus on the crisis
in that moment, which is very rarely them. And
actually, they're missing out. And if they learn.
The only way I get help or the only way I can
build a connection or interaction with you, even
if it's not a nice one, where I feel in control
of my body, maybe they're going to do that. And
then maybe you'll start seeing some unsafe behaviours
just through lack of attention, really. It's
what it comes down to. I've certainly seen that
in every single one of my classes and it's such.
an easy trap to fall into and it's certainly
one that i'm very conscious of in my class at
the moment it's something that we're working
really hard to not happen yeah we're seeing some
behaviors bubbling up and the only thing i can
think of is well yeah of course they are it's
how they get interaction yeah no it's so simple
in my mind it might not be again we're just guessing
we're being curious but it makes sense to me
that that would be the thing yeah And then you
take that step back, don't you? And then you
think, OK, so if we put in a bit more one to
one time for that child that's bubbling, you
know, and even if that's five minutes a day of
just some intensive interaction or some child
led play and see what happens. Because so often
I think, you know, we we need to do the curiosity
piece, but ultimately it becomes a hypothesis,
doesn't it? And there are times where that hypothesis
is untestable, you know, like you can't work
it out. And sometimes it's just a phase. Maybe
something's going on for that child internally
that we can't see, we can't work out. And within
a few days, things settle down again, you know.
Other times it's not. And you kind of have a
chance to test the hypothesis and think, I wonder
if it's this. Let's do that a bit differently
and see what happens. Or, you know, like do the
transition a little bit earlier or a bit later.
Or let's put in a social story and see if that
helps, you know. I think those kinds of things
can be like really powerful. I was working with
a family in the summer and we had a situation
around sleep and kind of the parent had a hypothesis.
And I said, well, look, let me write a social
story about this hypothesis and we'll just see.
And they read the social story and their child
went back to sleeping. You know, like those moments
where you're like, well, what's the worst that
could happen? Yeah, it just doesn't make a difference.
Well, you're no worse off, are you? No, no. And
so some of these things are. are worth exploring
aren't they to test that hypothesis and just
see like oh okay like is that gonna benefit is
that gonna change the situation and again thinking
about that kind of like so is there something
in the environment we change is it about the
activities or is it the way we're supporting
and I kind of think about that triangle really
around the child in the center is let's look
at those three different pieces and see if we
can work out which bit we might need to shift
the only thing it's not is changing them right
yeah because they're often not the problem and
i think that's so often lots of settings even
if they're not really conscious of it that's
their first thought let's take the device away
it's distracting or let's fit them to sit down
or let's you know whatever it is it's in a reward
system they're not doing what we want to do let's
put in a reward system so every time they sit
down we'll give them a sticker you know and and
hopefully in time we will quash their sensory
needs in compliance you know and I just think
yeah it's classic it is isn't it and I even I
notice I'm sitting here now and I'm I struggle
to sit still like it's a thing and I think that
we recognize you know so often this thing is
like yeah but in the adult world and I think
in the adult world we have so much more autonomy
over what we do when we do and how we do it and
equally I think that some of these children with
particularly high support needs like they're
going to be in a place where they probably have
even more autonomy because their you know like
my job before i was a speech therapist i was
a support worker and like house manager for adults
with learning disabilities and they had total
autonomy like they would choose what they wanted
to do every day like we would get them involved
in things and if they didn't want to get involved
in the washing they didn't do it wanted to wear
yeah do non -aid appropriate activity like when
did that become a thing let's turn to that sentence
yeah like offer them choices so like I have created
a program and someone was saying, you know, I
work with secondary school age adults, like young
people. But cognitively, you know, like we're
into other things. You know, is your program
appropriate? And I was like, well, there's lots
of options on it. There's pop music, there's
rock music. There's TV adverts, there's Disney,
there's Cocomelon. Give them options of everything
and let them show you what's appropriate. I can't
answer that for them. No, no. I've had children
that love Beyonce. I've got a child in my class
that loves classical music. Give them all the
options and they will show you. I guess that's
similar, that comes back around to speech and
language as well, isn't it? One of my questions
was... how do you get started so you've got a
minimally speaking child in your class or a non
-speaking child in your class or even a child
that speaks but maybe if they're dysregulated
they kind of lose some of their words maybe how
do you get started is it the same is it just
like just have available as much as you can and
see what they gravitate towards and model it
is it Well, honestly, my like first therapy session
when I go to first meet a child, OK, I get a
referral and I think, right, yeah, I can take
this on. I would take a bag of stuff. I usually
just put the bag down for a bit and just see
because that gives me some information about
how safe that child feels. Are they initiating
looking in my bag? Are they not? It's like literally
like a Tesco Minions bag for life that I take
everywhere. It kind of gauges, it helps me gauge
when a kid starts wanting to look in my bag and
open it up and I'm like, okay, they're starting
to feel safe because they're initiating some
interaction with me and the things that I take.
Sometimes I don't take anything and I would just
go and see what they're doing in their environment.
Often it can be tricky sometimes if you take
too much equipment because parents then might
feel or schools might feel they've suddenly got
to have all this stuff. So actually it can be
quite helpful to work with what is in the setting.
But I do, I just see like what are their interests
and I just observe and I just tune in. If they
don't kind of initiate, I might see what they're
using in their environment. What are they kind
of gravitating towards? And some assessments,
I might be there for like an hour and a half,
two hours, you know, and it is just about seeing
and observing. Like, yeah, I'd take a range of
different sensory and regulation tools. I'd take
just some different toys like that, you know.
spinny things and light up things and you know
sort of stacking things and all sorts of different
play schemas you know like things that lend itself
to posting and you know all that kind of stuff
and just see like what they interested in and
and then when they do it's then about kind of
gauging and tuning in like being alongside them
like do you want me here and then that's another
opportunity like particularly in a first session
sometimes you go a bit too close and you can
see them look or they may be pushed go away Ruth
and I'll give them the language right yeah so
I'll say like go away and I'll say I'm sorry
like I got that wrong you know like because I
can model too that I'm learning again that's
kind of that safety and trust it's just been
like yeah I'm sorry actually I can see that you
needed me to go away like give me some space
and I think that's kind of how I've generally
approached that first session and then I would
come out and be like okay I've got in my head
now where that child's at with those kind of
foundation communications around joy and around
play and that's when I kind of think okay so
what's next how can we kind of map some communication
strategies into these things that this child
is into without also killing it yeah true yeah
yeah true it's such a balance isn't it is it
often you going into the environment that they
know yeah yeah I don't have a clinic and even
when I was an employed therapist I'd usually
go and be with them in a classroom that's a huge
barrier isn't it already you're asking so much
of them aren't you yeah yeah transitions can
be huge you know and while there is merit in
being in a quiet environment again if we're thinking
about honoring affirming therapy practices like
how useful is it to get them to sit down and
be like put the you know the cup on the table
or brush the dolly or feed the teddy like I don't
know, I feel like I can gain information around
what they understand by observing them in the
classroom and I can think about what cues are
they picking up on and what visuals help them
and how many instructions. If they're in a quiet
room when they're working with you, you could
be able to do some wonderful things with them,
but out of context, how useful is that? But they
work in a classroom or they work at home. That's
their environment, so let's work there and see
what's possible. there I suppose I guess both
have their classes but some sessions I do a bit
of both like I might go in and into school and
spend a bit of time in the classroom with the
child and then if we're feeling okay with transition
but again I'd offer them a choice like do you
want to come or do you want to stay and see what
they do you know because also I think from a
communication perspective it's really beneficial
for if you're in the setting for parents to see
what you're doing and how you're doing it or
for education staff because Their obsession is
like a minuscule amount. And so if the people
around the child aren't using those strategies
the rest of the week, then we see such slow progress.
Yet when we see everybody on board smashing those
approaches, the progress just goes whomp. And
I know as an educator, like I read so many speech
and language reports and I can kind of have an
idea of what they mean. But them actually showing
me. with the child in the environment with the
resources is so much clearer and it makes it
so much more doable and you know understandable
for all of us to then feel confident to carry
it on when they're not there so yeah showing
rather than writing and reading is is crucial
yeah i think so i do a lot of videos that i send
to parents and teachers about like these are
you know this is where you can find the vocab
on the device or like this is an activity you
could try um where I've got consent I like video
bits of sessions say if I'm in school that I
can then send to a parent so they can see what
I've been doing and how I'm doing it um and I
think it's about making the resources accessible
which is why I do quite like paper -based AAC
because that is something that you can like you
know you can print out core vocabulary boards
like buy the 10s and 20s and laminate them and
just sort of, you know, fritter them around as
you're going on your two rounds. And they're
freely available. Yeah. Search the symbol language
program that you use or that your child knows
or they know at school or is on their AC or whatever.
Yeah. They'll be free ones. All of them. Contact
the company. They all send you them. So don't
let that be a barrier. Don't let the fact that
you don't have this program or that program be
a barrier to you. They will be freely available.
Contact me or Ruth and we'll send you them. yeah
i don't want that to be a barrier to not getting
access to to a paper -based copy i mean yeah
and it's a simple way to start and explore like
for some kids they don't they might like throw
it away and they might swish it away but actually
adults to model as well though isn't it even
if the child isn't interested i think my tas
were much less nervous of a paper -based model
to model them ipad and because it looked like
her ipad then they could they could transition
over to that a little bit easier as well as they
got confident in finding it my core sessions
are really funny actually because so often the
kids are just in and out getting ice oh god we've
got this new ice thing and they're they're more
in the freezer now than they are in my classroom
or whatever so they're out getting ice and outside
whatever and i've got four teaching assistants
around me trying to find anywhere on the ipad
it's just brilliant i love it But yeah, that's
how you learn, isn't it? We're all beginners
at this. We're all learning. I think that's something
that we don't necessarily give enough credit
to. And, you know, people will like hang their
hat on high tech AAC. We're going to get the
device. We're going to get the iPad. Like it
is actually like trying to learn a new language.
So if you start with a paper based core vocabulary
board that is the same as usually the front page
of most of those apps. You can get to grips with
it without being so totally overwhelmed that
you shelf the device because you think I can
never find the word. I don't know what I'm doing.
And I think that that is so important that we
recognize for communication partners, being a
communication partner is a skill on so many levels,
that tuning in, that noticing, that when to model,
what to model, how to model. Keeping it charged,
keeping it not smashed. Yeah. Yeah. it just becomes
it can be very overwhelming set of skills to
develop and i think that needs to again go back
to well -being of people actually just recognizing
that yeah no there's a lovely quote from i think
it's like buchelman and it talks about aac like
if you gave someone a piano they can't learn
to be a pianist any more than if you give someone
an aac device they just are a communicator we
have to teach them But actually that applies
equally to adult communication partners because
we aren't just communicators with AAC just because
we've got it. We need to play with it. We need
to try it. Like I remember introducing pod books
at a school, which is pragmatic, organized, dynamic
display. And I love pod. I think it's such a
cool approach. I really like the social pragmatic
way that language is set up. and we had them
in the staff rooms and in the therapy offices
so people could play with them while we were
kind of printing them out and getting them going
so people could just get used to it because it
was a very different way of that like core vocabulary
like language structuring sentences modeling
it was suddenly this like I've got something
to say turn to a page and you know so we just
played about with them for a bit to get used
to them because one system in the class either
are you so We've got three different AAC apps
in my room for 10 children, you know. So your
muscle memory is learning one and then you go
to another child and you think, hang on a minute.
Yeah. You know. Yeah. And that's a lot. It's
a lot. It's a lot. And it's definitely easier
to not bother. Like for us, it's easier for us
to think, oh, like we haven't got time. We need
to go swimming. Just get it or just. I'll just
do it for you. And it feels kind in the moment,
but it just isn't. I'd rather be late for swimming.
My lesson before swimming is I made it purposefully,
personal, social and emotional. So our lesson
for a whole hour before swimming is just getting
ready for swimming without prompting. That's
our lesson. And it's more of a lesson for us,
to be honest. It's like, you are not allowed
to say, check your timetable. You are not allowed
to say, get your boots. You are not allowed to
do a zip for them. You're like, whatever it is,
just you put on your coat, you get your boots
and just be one step ahead of them. Don't be
like way ahead of them. Just be one step ahead
and keep repeating your little step until they
get it or whatever. Yeah, I think that's it.
But I've got the luxury of having a school that
completely trusts me to create whatever. I can
do whatever I want, which is such luxury. I speak
to so many teachers, but it just breaks my heart
how rigid their schools are. And it's such a
huge barrier. I think one of the biggest barriers
to these kids isn't finances. It's rigidity with
the senior leadership team, honestly. They are
so scared of change. I just think if you believe
the kids, but also believe the teacher, believe
the teacher, because when they say, I just need
half an hour to do this, or I just... I really
want to go on this training or I need an extra
dinner lady at 12, between 12 and 10 past 12.
I really need that extra person. Just believe
them. Yeah. And I think I was listening to a
podcast actually, and it was Carrie Grant and
David Grant. And they were talking about like,
basically, are you prepared to break the rules?
Because in order to support. complex needs additional
needs neurodivergent children you need to be
prepared to break the rules and I think that
is something that is so powerful because that's
what we're doing ultimately isn't it and you
know you can you can chain it all the way back
to all sorts of complex social policies and things
but ultimately like schools need to break the
rules and break the boundaries and I was only
having a conversation literally this afternoon
with a neurodivergent teenager about schools
and how they could do better to support children
if they delivered different kinds of lessons
you know talking about kids who are brilliant
at gaming who have like a lot of creativity but
actually schools expectations for them to sit
still and do all these lessons on repeat you
know and study subjects that aren't interesting
to them and you know again it goes back to that
but in the adult world well in the adult world
most of us will pursue a hobby we enjoy we will
try and find a job that we enjoy yeah that's
more active that's outdoors you know why do you
have to wait until college to then start doing
apprenticeship style stuff you know yeah it's
really bizarre it's definitely why i'm not a
mainstream teacher and why i'm in special ed
because i am a rebellious i am a problem solver
i can't see problem in front of me and know a
solution and not do it Whether it's in the rules
or not, that's just part of me. And in my old
job, it got me in a lot of trouble. And in this
job, luckily, they are far more trusting and
just let me get on with it. I don't think even
special ed is always consistently like that.
It's really not. My last school was special ed.
My last school was special ed school. And incredibly
rigid, incredibly institutionalised, terrified
of change. More terrified than the mainstream.
I'm in a mainstream school now. Okay. Yeah, so
I'm in a mainstream school in a special ed provision.
Oh, okay, yeah. So they need the HCP to be there,
but they're mainstream. Far more trusting. I
think because they don't really have a clue what
to do, so they're like, yeah, I'm sure she knows.
Whereas in a special ed school, they kind of
know enough to have an opinion. But it was so
outdated that it was really institutionalised
and rigid and, yeah, just terrified to make any
changes. So, yeah, don't think that this is mainstream
versus SEN. It definitely isn't. No. It just
is. potluck as to how your school is really yeah
and equally I think it goes back to what you're
saying doesn't it about feeling comfortable and
confident to challenge and do differently because
I think in time like don't yeah like as an ECT
teacher I was not I didn't know what what was
right or wrong or even what my opinion was I
was basically being dragged through my first
few years by my teaching assistants honestly
yeah exactly by the legs so don't yeah there's
no judgment at all but after 15 years you get
to have quite strong opinions on what feels good
and what is right and you can challenge but but
also equally my teachers are speaking about earlier
she's been in the job a year she's just really
passionate about speech and language doing her
own research you know um on through social media
and online herself and she's questioning like
let's question i want to build a world that people
aren't scared to whistleblow or get it wrong
or question or think outside the box or problem
solve because you have to with you have to especially
with the children that we're working with because
they don't follow the rules they don't they don't
follow the linear typical stuff so why should
we really yeah absolutely i think like that sums
it up doesn't it that actually whatever approach
with you thinking about regulation communication
education and they all intertwine they're not
sun as silos but um it needs to be meaningful
and it needs to be as individualized as it can
be um as flexible you know like not in that space
have been like this is what we do and this is
how we do it um and yeah i think that is going
to take time and that i sit with a lot of frustration
about that because i feel like why can't people
just see this and do this like what is the barrier
don't be afraid to leave a job There's only so
much change that you can make. Don't feel like
you're letting the children down because you've
got all these barriers around you that you're
not able to make the change that you want to
make. You can leave. It's okay. Because actually
there are so many children and young people out
there that also need you. And I think that's
okay. And I really struggled with leaving my
last job. I really felt like I'd let the kids
down. But now I've learned. I never did. You
know, I did as best I could within the parameters
that I was allowed. And now I've got an amazing
class as well. And, yeah, there's so much else
I could do there. So, yeah, don't worry about
that. And I think, ultimately, you can't do a
good job if you are burnt out from banging your
head against a brick wall. And, you know, if
the system around you is not enabling. you and
that's impacting your well -being then you are
going to show up as the best education professional
you know therapist ta senko teacher whichever
part of that professional you know that you that
you fall into you know it goes back to what we
were talking about that actually like thinking
about the well -being of the education profession
you know and i mean that across the whole all
the roles is is so important because if we don't
get that right then the kids get inconsistency
they have staff off they have like turnover you
know and all those things that then does hinder
progress because you're constantly you know I
see as a therapist the kids who've got already
secure who are well supported who have good well
-being they make loads of progress the kids who
are in classrooms and settings where that isn't
the case you're constantly going in as a therapist
but oh here's another TA that I now need to talk
about yeah all the time because you're just trying
to get through the day you're not going to be
able to add in all these wonderful extra things
no no these wonderful yeah there's just today
i was saying you know if i come along as a happy
speech therapist like try this strategy they're
going to want to punch me in the face they're
not going to be like yes please get your gloves
on we've got a pad that needs changing room in
you go yeah absolutely and i wouldn't i would
absolutely wholeheartedly i love it Well, I think
it's time to finish, but oh my goodness, I could
chat to you for ages. I feel so offended. With
all of these podcasts, I kind of use it as a
CPD for myself, kind of like my own progression
talking to all these experts. And I'm definitely
going to sit with Believe Them, not only for
the kids in my class, but also the teaching assistants,
everybody. And I hope that filters up and down.
Believe Them. You know, if someone says they
need something or someone's showing you that
they need or want something, it's probably because
they do need it. Absolutely. So I'm going to
take that into this week. So thank you for that
wisdom. Where can everybody find you? Because
I know they're going to want to follow you on
all your things. Yeah, I have a Facebook page
and Instagram and I do have TikTok. I don't use
that so much, though. It feels a bit scary. At
Ruth, maybe underscore Jones underscore SLT.
I think that's Instagram. Yeah. I'll leave it
in the description below. I'll leave it in the
description. You'll find that. Yeah, you will.
And I love to connect with people and chat about
all these kinds of things. So yeah, please do
reach out because it's just nice to have conversations
with people and, you know, critical dialogue,
equally like -minded friends. Absolutely. And
no question is a bad question. um there's no
judgment if you use different words whatever
we'll we'll take it all i love i love actually
having um questions from people that use the
kind of outdated language whatever because they're
still doing the right thing i've come up on their
algorithm for a reason i'm pleased you're here
like let's work together so yeah no bad question
is a bad question thank you so much ruth for
being here thank you yeah and i hope you have
a really good week yes and you thank you Thank
you.