WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education

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teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything

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communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson

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ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged

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4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in

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the field answering your questions and sharing

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our knowledge and experience working alongside

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our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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Hello everybody and welcome to another podcast.

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Today I am joined by Ruth, a speech and language

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therapist who shares everything affirming and

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AAC related on social media. Hello Ruth. Hi,

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thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being

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here. I think yours was one of the first accounts

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that I started following last year when I began

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sharing all of this kind of stuff. And I was

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so inspired by your affirming approach. That's

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been a real target for me. this year to get more

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affirming and purposefully more affirming not

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just what I used to think was the kindest thing

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but actually really purposeful and really putting

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in training and research into you know what is

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what does affirming mean yeah so what I mean

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that's how I would describe you and your account

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but do you want to say a little bit about yourself

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and how you got into the space yeah um Well,

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yeah, I'm a speech -language therapist and I

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have only ever really worked with additional

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needs at neurodivergent children and young people.

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And I guess kind of after the birth of my first

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child, I went part -time and started exploring

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independent practice and working kind of what

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we know as privately. And I, up until last year,

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was working employed and a little bit of private

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practice. I found that I was working less and

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less with other speech therapists and really

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missing that space of like coming back to a therapy

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team and reflecting together. And so I suppose

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for me, that's what social media became was just

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the space to kind of share some of those reflections,

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like some of those bits and pieces that I might

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find useful to share with other people during

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my day. And that's not what I use it for, really.

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I don't really know why I have social media,

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I guess. It's just that connection piece that's...

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Absolutely. It ends up as a really... amazing

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staff room of people that you create in your

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pocket at all times to either share your findings

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with and celebrate because it's really important

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to celebrate the wins as well isn't it rather

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than to an empty room it's really exciting to

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share it with people that get how big these small

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steps are it's really great but yeah to also

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to ask advice and I've learned so much this year

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just from kind of putting myself out there yeah

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yeah from all of you guys really who all have

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a speciality in different things you can kind

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of build up this incredible team of people all

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over the world as well yeah I think there's something

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really I guess for me I was saying I don't know

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why I have it part of it is probably because

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I feel strongly about the shift in practice that

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I think should happen for our neurodivergent

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children young people and adults and and I guess

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it's kind of having that space to share some

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of those reflections and thoughts isn't it and

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build a like -minded network and and learn from

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each other when you know sometimes continuing

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professional development opportunities they're

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really expensive and you know when we recognize

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some of the barriers to that in terms of privilege

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in terms of position within education or within

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therapy like an access to that paid training

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is so difficult and for parents to get access

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to professionals yes you can't give like individual

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advice but if there's just a space that might

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just offer somebody a little nugget of something

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where they go oh I could do that differently

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or oh that could really benefit a child I work

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with or my child yeah I think that's one of the

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joys of social media really isn't it and you

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know having space to kind of open some critical

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conversations about things as well yeah it's

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crucial and that definitely started me on my

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more affirming journey because I thought I was

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but until we very rarely get to watch or observe

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other people in our job it's quite a lonely existence

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really and same for speech and language therapists

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and same for special ed teachers you're kind

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of locked in the room and off you go and you

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think you're doing the best you go on the odd

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training day maybe but you don't really get to

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see other teachers in practice so when I was

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seeing teachers on social media talking about

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they were doing this does that practice I thought

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I need to learn more about this I could do better

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and I think that's a really great mindset to

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have as well isn't it yeah I think there's I

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don't know who said it but I've definitely seen

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a quote that like one of the most dangerous things

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in language is but we've always done it this

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way and I feel like yeah actually that's so much

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of what we do in education globally in education

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but also within sort of like additional needs

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is just that That's just what we've always done.

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And I think there's so many practices where if

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we just take a step back. And I think that's

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one of the biggest challenges within education.

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I was only talking to some teaching assistants

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and teachers today about having space to take

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that step back. And again, that's a bit of a

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privilege, really. It isn't afforded to so many

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people. um but it's really important to work

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in an affirming way because actually it is taking

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that step back and thinking about what's going

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on and how we're doing things and why we're doing

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things it's something I don't have an easy answer

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to but it's so much on my radar is like the well

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-being of staff within education sector and how

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that then impacts on capacity to be affirming

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or to learn about affirming practice and those

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things feel really interlinked it's hard isn't

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it because The unaffirming practices look like

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they work in some regards. So you might be coming

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from a place where you think, but it worked for

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this child. You've got these stories in your

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mind. I've worked for 15 years in special ed

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before I started thinking about affirming practices

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consciously. So I've got years of experience.

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But that helped him to communicate. That helped

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her to access things. And I think that's the

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danger, isn't it, is, yes, these systems sometimes

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do help children communicate, but at what cost?

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And I think that's the question that we need

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to now ask ourselves. And the more people are

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asking, thank goodness, it definitely seems like

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there's a massive shift in the speech and language

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world, if you will, in special ed, is at what

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cost? That's the question that we're asking ourselves.

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So, yes, we want them to communicate, but at

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what cost? hand -over -hand practices yes it

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might teach them what we're expecting but is

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it through control and compliance rather than

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actually what leads them and that they're the

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kind of questions that we're asking ourselves

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i've certainly noticed the shift have you seen

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that similar shift more recently or has that

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been happening For years. It's really interesting

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because I reflect back on things. And so when

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I first qualified in 2010, and it was like, you

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know, there were particular trainings that everyone

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went on, there were particular practices, particularly

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with non -speaking, minimally speaking children,

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there were things that we did. And then I remember

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learning about aided language input as like a

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method of teaching. And there was this video

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on YouTube that I used to use in training. And

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it's like a cartoon video. And there's like a

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child who walks along with their like... device

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and it's like and nobody was using the device

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and so the child didn't use the device and then

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it's like the video is like and then everyone

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started using the device and now they're you

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know and I used to use that a lot in training

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and kind of think about things differently and

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core boards and core vocabulary which have been

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around for years but they just particularly I've

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only ever really worked very specifically in

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the early parts of my career in the autism field

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so I was in specialist residential provisions

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for high support needs autistic children and

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so I just don't think that was part of it because

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it didn't have that gold standard evidence base

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or maybe it did I don't know it just wasn't the

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thing and I think it's just the thing is how

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it's always been done that's exactly what you

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said right yeah this is what we've always done

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this is the training we've been on and that we've

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spent lots of money on so this is what we're

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going to do and I think that's where you get

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into that cycle of rather than questioning and

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being curious about actually is this actually

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helpful and I inherited a caseload and most of

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them were using certain communication systems

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and that's what we worked on and then I kind

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of did some reading I did some learning um and

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I was like we can get like Firstly, devices,

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that was a thing that started to come about.

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Like when I trained, iPads didn't exist. So this

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is all very new. And AAC devices were like typewriters

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and, you know, things like that. So it became

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accessible via iPad. So we started looking at

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that. And then I started seeing kids using these

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devices. And I was like, well, hang on, if they

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can use it, what about their peers who maybe

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could access paper -based systems? Even if we

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don't have that level of privilege and access

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to funds for a device, we could try it this way.

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Some of the sessions we used to have where we'd

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go along and do aided language input and like

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model different verbs, for example. And suddenly

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kids, instead of saying like, I want the toy,

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they're saying go and stop. And I like it within

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20 minutes. You've given them so much more additional

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vocabulary. And it's like that became really

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powerful. And I think then when we started to

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see progress and I could deliver training with

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the teams and. I had an incredible team, particularly

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I worked with some incredible speech therapy

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assistants and occupational therapy assistants

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who would just like hammer it home whenever they

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were going into their sessions. They were like

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my like aided language champions. And the progress

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we saw in some of those kids so quickly. And

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they're the ones where you think, gosh, like

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we made that shift a long time ago. This is like,

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you know, 10 years ago now. But how many kids

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before that? have missed out on language you

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can't think like that can you because I think

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we trained a similar year and I was 2009 so yeah

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we're training a similar year and now if I keep

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catching myself thinking if only I knew then

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what I know now because I think of this child

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and that child I I didn't quite reach them or

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yeah I I could have done more and I think yeah

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but what about the children in 10 years time

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how much are we going to know then and i think

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we just need to kind of accept our own journey

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don't we but yeah i i totally fall into that

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trap too yeah if you find this i started using

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uh ac on high -tech devices on ipads two years

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ago but only with two students and it came to

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us through a speech language referral which is

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how we kind of got introduced to all this whole

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world of it really and which is amazing but it

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was used with two students That had always done

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the system that we're talking about. So the,

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you know, the hand over your hand kind of visual

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system in a book. And that's mainly around requesting,

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right? So like you say, I want this, I want this.

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There's no real base for just commenting on life

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really, is there? And what I noticed was that

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that was then their automatic use of their high

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tech iPads. So even though they had thousands

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of words, all accessible to them and we were

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modeling. Their go -to was at snack time and

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I want. And it wasn't communication. It was very

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much I press this button as a rigid routine and

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then I open the packet myself. There was no initiation

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for relationship. There was no drive to build

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that rapport. It wasn't there. It was very much

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rigid routine, press button, open packet. And

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then since then, we've now got iPads for all

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of my learners in my class. And we're seeing

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it's done so differently, even though we've not

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changed, with learners that have never gone through

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that system that are doing this fresh. Right

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from the start, they've got all the words. We're

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seeing so much fringe vocabulary, so much commenting.

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Yeah, sentence building, guest style, language

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phrases, phrases, you know, really exciting stuff.

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And I just think, wow. You know, it really does

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have an impact. I was really pleased that it

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was started. I'm really pleased that they did

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it. I'm sure it's never too late. Are you seeing

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that kind of thing as well? Yeah, I think in

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my experience, I've worked with some significantly

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prompt dependent children because of particular

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approaches to their whole behaviour, like not

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just to the communication. And I think sometimes

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what we can do is kind of reward the personality

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out of somebody, you know, in terms of what we

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expect. I think, you know, when you listen to

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particularly the autistic community, there are

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some adults who really advocate for approaches

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that they say really, really helped them. So

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this is not a, you know, we have to use nuance

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and we have to use critical thinking skills when

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we're looking at different children and how we're

00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:57.620
going to support them. But when you listen to

00:12:57.620 --> 00:13:00.100
the lived experience of the adult community.

00:13:01.070 --> 00:13:03.370
On the most part, they kind of talk about the

00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:05.330
challenges that these sorts of approaches give.

00:13:05.450 --> 00:13:08.149
And in my clinical experience and what I've seen

00:13:08.149 --> 00:13:10.730
is I would agree at the time when you're implementing

00:13:10.730 --> 00:13:13.909
it, it's like, wow, this is incredible. And I

00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:17.549
think that there is opportunity for other kind

00:13:17.549 --> 00:13:19.090
of, like you say, sort of different functions

00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:21.590
of communication further down the line. But I

00:13:21.590 --> 00:13:25.009
think it's not just the functions of communication.

00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:28.299
It's the way, the method of teaching. And for

00:13:28.299 --> 00:13:32.519
me, communication starts with connection. And

00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:36.059
that connection can be without any AAC just to

00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:38.940
start with. And I work with children now. I have

00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:42.899
such a privilege to work with children long term.

00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:45.879
And so I could work with them for years. And

00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:48.340
you just build that connection. And when you

00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:50.840
build that connection and you join them in what

00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.419
they are kind of. what they're tuning into and

00:13:55.419 --> 00:13:58.179
what they're enjoying. And you then can make

00:13:58.179 --> 00:14:00.879
communication. Even without AAC, you make it

00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.360
fun and you make it meaningful and you make it

00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.679
individualized. I find then when you start to

00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.840
map on AAC tools, paper -based or device -based,

00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.600
because I'm not one of those people that's like

00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:13.799
devices are best. There are different tools for

00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.700
different people, but devices are great. You

00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:18.700
see so much progress because you've done that

00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:25.759
connection piece tuning in and not kind of leading

00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.200
and I think there's so much to be said for that

00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.299
approach of like child led where we can just

00:14:32.299 --> 00:14:36.960
see and observe and be with children and what's

00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.600
kind of getting them going because that's where

00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:40.519
you need to tune in with starting to teach communication

00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.360
and I think back like again to sessions I would

00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.399
have run and we'd have run some brilliant sensory

00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.799
sessions that kids just got to choose what they

00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:49.419
want and we kind of had a nice structure of a

00:14:49.419 --> 00:14:51.460
start point and an end point and like little

00:14:51.460 --> 00:14:53.720
bits of sensory circuits. And then I'd have other

00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:55.840
sessions where you would just be like going with

00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.919
like, you know, the same activity and like requesting,

00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:02.000
yeah, for like a piece of Mr. Potato Head. And

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.480
I'm like, is there any wonder why perhaps at

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.240
times it's just didn't want to engage? And so

00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.480
I think that's been a real shift for me over

00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.720
the years. And I think also one thing I sort

00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.480
of wonder is how much I'm in my little happy

00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.019
bubble with my bubble of social media that tells

00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:19.279
me everybody's doing the same thing. And, you

00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.220
know, it can't be the case, can it? Because not

00:15:21.220 --> 00:15:23.539
everybody's. following the same algorithms getting

00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:25.700
the same information yeah it's definitely true

00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:28.620
that it can become an echo chamber can't it of

00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:31.299
affirming practices especially when it's at your

00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:34.279
work it's at your home it's in your pocket in

00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:36.840
your social media it's your friendship basis

00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:38.899
it definitely feels like a wonderful bubble and

00:15:38.899 --> 00:15:41.899
yeah it it's a shock when your bubble gets burst

00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:44.379
and it does sometimes like you end up on the

00:15:44.379 --> 00:15:46.500
wrong algorithm or you for you you know sometimes

00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.379
in dms as well you get kind of comments or messages

00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:51.899
that aren't quite worded you know as you would

00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:55.259
word them or you know whatever and yeah it does

00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:57.600
it bursts the bubble for sure doesn't it yeah

00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.179
yeah no there's still a long way to go and actually

00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:04.639
that's what drives me to keep going I don't know

00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.700
if you agree yeah well I think that's it because

00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:08.659
you think gosh what's the point because everybody's

00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:10.940
doing it and then suddenly like no no they're

00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:14.419
not and you know I think it's it's hard isn't

00:16:14.419 --> 00:16:16.879
it because I do think that this feels like the

00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.629
right way But equally, I see the barriers and

00:16:19.629 --> 00:16:22.809
the challenges that different intersections and

00:16:22.809 --> 00:16:24.970
marginalized communities experience and equally

00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:26.830
that the pressures on the education system. So

00:16:26.830 --> 00:16:29.169
it's lovely kind of going, oh, well, let's just

00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:31.429
do child -led practice. You know, even my speech

00:16:31.429 --> 00:16:34.629
therapy colleagues who work for the health service

00:16:34.629 --> 00:16:37.870
and have caseloads that are huge, like they don't

00:16:37.870 --> 00:16:41.750
have that same capacity to do that sort of work

00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:44.710
and to work alongside staff teams in the classrooms.

00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:47.860
every week you know those kinds of things that

00:16:47.860 --> 00:16:51.179
yeah and I think there's that then becomes the

00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:53.059
challenge and then I kind of get myself in like

00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:54.679
right we'll petition the government and we'll

00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:56.379
do all these things because it just doesn't feel

00:16:56.379 --> 00:16:59.440
feel good enough and there's like a kind of balance

00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.759
I think between having the impact for those few

00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.539
children that you can you know like be your class

00:17:04.539 --> 00:17:07.180
for my caseload and hoping that the practice

00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:09.119
filters through in the settings that they're

00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.460
in and equally then having this little space

00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:13.640
on social media for anyone who wants to join

00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.200
along to be like here's some information you

00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.960
know and that parents can take to their you know

00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:22.339
children's teachers and TAs and I think it's

00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:25.779
it's providing like critical conversation isn't

00:17:25.779 --> 00:17:28.059
it it's not saying like everything you're doing

00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:30.559
is wrong but just have you kind of again taken

00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.140
that step back and looked at what is going on

00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:36.599
and why because I've I love the most affirming

00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.220
practices but then I'm also been in conversations

00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:42.500
where they're clearly not doing it in a child

00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:43.940
-led way even though that's what the training

00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:47.400
says even though i couldn't imagine a world in

00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.440
which you could get it wrong but but ultimately

00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:54.140
of course you can you know if you're doing it

00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:57.740
um you could do anything you could yeah i mean

00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:00.299
god intensive interaction for example i feel

00:18:00.299 --> 00:18:02.299
like it's so child -led i mean god they're literally

00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:04.779
like showing to do they are literally leading

00:18:04.779 --> 00:18:08.680
the session but if you're getting too close to

00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.640
a child too quickly, taking their toys from them

00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.940
and trying to use them or rearranging their play

00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:16.440
too quickly, mimicking them when they're clearly

00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:21.460
distressed. All those kind of things can look

00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:23.579
like you're doing intense attraction, but clearly

00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:26.779
isn't child led, clearly isn't affirming. I say

00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:29.400
clearly, maybe it isn't. And that's why we need

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.440
to be having these conversations. So not just

00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.099
mentioning these words and mentioning training,

00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:38.589
but repeatedly so that we can keep. open conversation

00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:40.890
of what actually is it what actually does it

00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:42.190
look like and it's really hard because none of

00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:44.329
us can actually share our real sessions with

00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:47.349
our real children and I do say you know my attention

00:18:47.349 --> 00:18:49.869
autism sessions look very different with my group

00:18:49.869 --> 00:18:52.829
because like people say you know do all your

00:18:52.829 --> 00:18:55.930
children sit down on chairs and just work some

00:18:55.930 --> 00:18:58.789
are laying some are pacing in and out some choose

00:18:58.789 --> 00:19:02.650
not to join that's cool it's okay but it's really

00:19:02.650 --> 00:19:05.750
hard to show that isn't it you give the impression

00:19:05.750 --> 00:19:08.390
of quiets it down actually of course that is

00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:11.509
what it is no no the reality is very different

00:19:11.509 --> 00:19:14.589
isn't it and i think that is that's one thing

00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:16.269
you know that's another practice that i feel

00:19:16.269 --> 00:19:19.049
like like i love like i love the kind of you

00:19:19.049 --> 00:19:21.250
know that irresistible invitation that's the

00:19:21.250 --> 00:19:23.450
kind of phrase i always take from that that approach

00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:26.130
um and kind of curiosity isn't it but equally

00:19:26.130 --> 00:19:27.849
i think that's the sort of approach where again

00:19:27.849 --> 00:19:31.130
people take it and they deliver it in such a

00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:33.789
rigid way where there is this set of expectations

00:19:33.789 --> 00:19:37.230
and actually that then takes something and turns

00:19:37.230 --> 00:19:39.369
it into really quite not affirming practice.

00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:42.690
Compliance, control and everything. And I think

00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:45.269
that was my fear of even using that whole system

00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:48.190
in the first place. But speaking to the directors,

00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:49.990
it was really interesting. I had them on the

00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:52.569
podcast and I really was kind of use it to like,

00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:54.730
can you convince me that this is a good thing?

00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:57.769
Because I'm not convinced. And they totally did.

00:19:57.910 --> 00:20:00.190
They were like, no, that isn't what we teach

00:20:00.190 --> 00:20:03.329
at all. They said we had one photo of all the

00:20:03.329 --> 00:20:05.819
children sat down. We've never spoken about it.

00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.740
We just had one photo and all of a sudden, you

00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:09.180
know, and all of these kind of things. I think,

00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.160
yeah, it can really be twisted, can't it? Like

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.740
lots of these, lots of these things. Yeah. And

00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:18.039
I think partly, again, that goes back to access

00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:20.119
to training, because how many people would have

00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.519
been on attention autism training, but actually

00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.799
it isn't the approach training. So they've been

00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.279
on something that's kind of talking about attention

00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.339
autism and, you know, but it isn't. it isn't

00:20:31.339 --> 00:20:34.140
necessarily delivered by the official folks and

00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:36.960
then it does sometimes the message gets lost

00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.799
because the focus is also okay to question the

00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.579
big dogs as well like don't just assume because

00:20:42.579 --> 00:20:46.960
they're the director or or they're the big thing

00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:48.680
that everyone's talking about because we've had

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:50.339
lots of other big things that lots of people

00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:53.160
are talking about a new thing like let's question

00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.980
it and I love one of my TAs the other day like

00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:58.180
again we can get so institutionalized accidentally

00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:02.799
can't we that we for hello time we had an ipad

00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.619
and we had good morning on it and our pnld students

00:21:06.619 --> 00:21:09.980
would come in and we'd show them and they'd reach

00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:12.259
for it and they'd say good morning always in

00:21:12.259 --> 00:21:14.440
the same voice always a female voice and they're

00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.759
not they're male you know all these things and

00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:18.640
we'd just do it every morning oh that's lovely

00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:21.960
and my team said they might not have had a good

00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.339
morning they might not want to say good morning

00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:26.519
Are we giving them another option to not say

00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.640
good morning? And why is it a girl's voice? It

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.079
needs to be, we need to get one of the year five

00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.059
boys to do it. You know, all of this. And I love

00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:36.799
her for that so much because sometimes you just

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.079
need someone to question and all of a sudden

00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.819
it popped me up in my mind when I thought, yeah,

00:21:42.019 --> 00:21:47.160
you're so right. What is the purpose of this?

00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:50.099
Why are we starting with good morning for a start?

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:54.430
Like that's not functional. It started unraveling

00:21:54.430 --> 00:21:56.650
all this questioning. And that was only recently.

00:21:56.829 --> 00:22:00.509
And it's already changed so much around that

00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:04.130
session and what is actually what we're using

00:22:04.130 --> 00:22:07.029
it for. What's the purpose? It really questioned

00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:09.369
it. Just that little question. So don't think

00:22:09.369 --> 00:22:10.970
just because they're the teacher or because they're

00:22:10.970 --> 00:22:12.210
the speech and language therapist or because

00:22:12.210 --> 00:22:14.670
they're the system that everyone's using that's

00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.190
on their EHCP, don't think you can't question

00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:20.990
it because that is really healthy. to be curious

00:22:20.990 --> 00:22:22.750
and they might say oh it's because of this and

00:22:22.750 --> 00:22:24.470
have a really good answer and then that's fine

00:22:24.470 --> 00:22:28.069
but it's always good to be curious because sometimes

00:22:28.069 --> 00:22:33.930
what those questions make change make real really

00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:37.569
good change yeah they do and I think for me there's

00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.589
something around um like I truly believe that

00:22:40.589 --> 00:22:43.589
there's everybody is equal around the table that

00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:46.589
team around the child and I think I think sometimes

00:22:46.589 --> 00:22:50.460
ego comes into it and people feel I don't want

00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:52.099
to say attacked that maybe feels a bit strong

00:22:52.099 --> 00:22:53.880
but you know like if there's a question it's

00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:55.740
a bit like well you know well because I said

00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:58.480
or because I know and you think no actually it's

00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.220
not it needs to be a critical conversation where

00:23:01.220 --> 00:23:04.180
we're exploring these things and you know maybe

00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:06.519
we need to look internally if we are that person

00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.000
that feels discomfort when somebody challenges

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.579
something we've said and what shows up for us

00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:13.819
in those moments and how do we manage that because

00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:16.359
actually everybody's got a right to share an

00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.019
opinion and to engage in a dialogue about strategies

00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:22.200
and approaches. And I think sometimes that's

00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.299
not always welcomed by everybody, is it? Because

00:23:26.299 --> 00:23:28.200
it makes them feel uncomfortable. Exactly. Of

00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.119
course it does. And it affects your, you know,

00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:33.700
self -esteem or whatever is going on for you.

00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:35.660
But it is definitely part of the job, isn't it?

00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.160
The fact is, is there is a team around the child.

00:23:38.259 --> 00:23:40.539
There's parents, the teachers, the therapists,

00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.480
you know. social workers or these children naturally

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.900
can't with a big team around them and if we're

00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:50.359
all saying different things even if they're all

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.079
the right things just the fact that they're different

00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:56.059
will make them so much less effective won't they

00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:59.380
we once I remember at the HCP meet I had about

00:23:59.380 --> 00:24:01.059
10 years ago I don't know why it comes to mind

00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:04.039
but it's just a perfect example of this that

00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:06.160
we went through all the HCP targets and the mum

00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.500
said okay so right but what do we start with

00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:11.039
then you want me to do music to get them in and

00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.619
out of the taxi you want me to you know get him

00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:15.160
dressing you do this and we're like oh no no

00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.759
not all at once before he's 25 it's really easy

00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.680
to like all think our goals or our targets are

00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:24.039
the most crucial right and we kind of need to

00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:27.079
look at this big picture yeah i think yeah but

00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:29.740
what's first like what does the child need right

00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:33.420
now and what will have the biggest impact uh

00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:37.269
yeah kind of get lost in that don't we yeah I

00:24:37.269 --> 00:24:39.410
think it's so easy I was only talking to a parent

00:24:39.410 --> 00:24:42.089
today about in the HCP review and saying like

00:24:42.089 --> 00:24:44.730
actually the goal setting is really quite boring

00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:46.630
bit of it because really what we want to talk

00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.269
about is the here and now not like the at the

00:24:49.269 --> 00:24:51.470
end of the key stage or the next transition point

00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:54.410
you want to be like okay like what is going on

00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:58.509
now what's like you know the goal for in the

00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:00.549
next six weeks and I think that's again one of

00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.049
those things with kind of the privilege of time

00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:05.190
that is afforded to some settings and not to

00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:08.029
others to explore that and have those conversations.

00:25:08.569 --> 00:25:11.089
Because really, you know, as a therapist, I might

00:25:11.089 --> 00:25:14.029
be looking at setting goals for like 12 weeks,

00:25:14.190 --> 00:25:17.089
maybe, maybe more, maybe less. Maybe, you know,

00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:19.009
sometimes I feel like I kind of half set goals

00:25:19.009 --> 00:25:22.250
and just sort of wander along and see what happens

00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:24.569
in that time. And, you know, inevitably progress

00:25:24.569 --> 00:25:26.349
happens and change happens, but it might not

00:25:26.349 --> 00:25:28.130
be quite what you planned it to be, particularly

00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:30.700
with. more complex you know high support needs

00:25:30.700 --> 00:25:33.599
individuals because yeah how do you know what

00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:35.380
they might achieve you know we've talked to me

00:25:35.380 --> 00:25:37.500
about when you get that AAC tool right and what

00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.099
you thought my goodness yes they know and they

00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:43.339
show us they know that and you're like whoa and

00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:46.000
yeah it sort of blows your goals out the water

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.920
which is great absolutely and you see it time

00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.240
and time again don't you I say it a lot I don't

00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:52.880
know I don't know if you feel like this as well

00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.099
but I I say I'm not really a teacher I'm just

00:25:55.099 --> 00:25:58.839
a facilitator and I just put together activities

00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.599
that I think will allow them to show me what

00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.200
they already know rather than activities where

00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.920
they are learning this new skill often it's like

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.579
do you know this and if I do this and if I do

00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:16.220
this like it really does feel like that it's

00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:18.259
always like they're like a present and we kind

00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:20.839
of like slowly undo the ribbon like it's all

00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.839
there it's just like how can you show us you

00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.759
know what can we do to help you show us what

00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.279
you No, and yeah, I mean, high tech AAC has been

00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.420
a huge unraveling for us in my classroom. It's

00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:36.180
really been quite exciting because it has allowed

00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:42.900
my students to show us what, like even just part

00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.759
of what they can do and what they know, which

00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:49.480
is really exciting. It's when you see the personality

00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.660
come through, I think that's the thing, like

00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:55.519
working with a child a couple of years ago and

00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:58.440
we introduced AAC this particular child's big

00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.259
into dinosaurs or playing with the dinosaurs.

00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.539
And I like pick up one. I'm like, oh, triceratops.

00:27:03.619 --> 00:27:06.980
And then like they were saying, like not triceratops,

00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:09.960
like looking, laughing, you know, like joking,

00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:14.039
basically joking. And you think it's a joke.

00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.500
And then it became the game, you know, was that

00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:18.279
I'd pick something up and say it was this. And

00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.069
then they'd say not that. we were like had so

00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:24.049
much joy in that interaction and so much communication

00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:26.430
was happening but it was so meaningful and it

00:27:26.430 --> 00:27:29.269
was so fun and you think that child would not

00:27:29.269 --> 00:27:32.089
have access to the vocabulary triceratops or

00:27:32.089 --> 00:27:35.470
even not you know like that word is often we

00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:37.130
think don't think about rejecting and protesting

00:27:37.130 --> 00:27:40.670
when we kind of set up AAC tools and historically

00:27:40.670 --> 00:27:44.609
um and I think it's really it's really powerful

00:27:44.609 --> 00:27:48.250
when you see it even years ago I remember working

00:27:48.910 --> 00:27:51.630
And we were introducing AAC to a child on a device.

00:27:52.329 --> 00:27:55.190
And the teacher like phoned me down and they

00:27:55.190 --> 00:27:57.190
were really quite distressed, the child. And

00:27:57.190 --> 00:27:59.410
so I kind of ran over and I was like, I'll bring

00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:01.970
the iPad and we'll just see. And the child like

00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:04.809
had some vocalizations. And so they were making

00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:06.750
a vocalization. The teacher said, oh, they mean,

00:28:06.890 --> 00:28:08.809
I think they were saying like, oh, they mean

00:28:08.809 --> 00:28:10.809
bedroom. Like I've told them that it's not time

00:28:10.809 --> 00:28:12.829
for their bedroom. We're going to stay like it's

00:28:12.829 --> 00:28:15.109
classroom time and it's residential setting.

00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:18.150
So kind of bedroom was right there. We got the

00:28:18.150 --> 00:28:21.250
device and the child said, bus, bus, bus. And

00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:22.750
the teacher said, oh my God, we were meant to

00:28:22.750 --> 00:28:24.670
go on the minibus, but like we couldn't because

00:28:24.670 --> 00:28:27.349
of something else. And you're like, okay. So

00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:29.430
then we like quickly wrote a social story. And

00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:31.009
this child just literally, you could watch them

00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:34.150
deflate, like from severely agitated, really,

00:28:34.369 --> 00:28:37.289
really quite distressed. And I was like, but

00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:40.190
they didn't have the word bus. And we're presuming

00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:43.390
that they meant bedroom because of that vocalization.

00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:48.400
How frustrating. No wonder that they were so

00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.119
distressed like and another one I remember introducing

00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:54.099
on an iPod touch like this again was quite a

00:28:54.099 --> 00:28:57.099
long time ago and this particular child had taken

00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:59.240
the device home over a holiday and came back

00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.660
and the parent was saying oh you won't believe

00:29:01.660 --> 00:29:03.859
it they asked for blackcurrant and this child

00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:05.619
was like 15 and they were like I've just always

00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:07.339
presumed the noise of an apple juice and that's

00:29:07.339 --> 00:29:09.480
what they had so for 15 years this child had

00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:12.099
been drinking apple juice and this parent was

00:29:12.099 --> 00:29:15.579
like wow. And like, how powerful is that? Like,

00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:17.660
they obviously didn't mind the apple juice, but

00:29:17.660 --> 00:29:19.660
equally that noise was kind of presumed that

00:29:19.660 --> 00:29:21.359
apple juice was what they meant. And then when

00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.259
you had this different set of vocabulary that

00:29:23.259 --> 00:29:24.980
they'd got, suddenly it's like, oh, now they

00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:26.720
can try some blackcurrant juice. And you're like,

00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:29.579
and that's the power of a varied vocabulary,

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.640
isn't it? And like robust systems as opposed

00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.819
to kind of, you know, systems where we don't

00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:37.700
necessarily get that breadth of language and

00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:40.259
that breadth of vocabulary and that capacity

00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:43.400
to share. things internally and so most get eaten

00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.420
chewed ripped apart loves and then it takes you

00:29:46.420 --> 00:29:49.480
well at least 24 hours to make it again if not

00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.859
way longer and then they've lost their voice

00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.740
for all that time yeah it's just yeah it's really

00:29:56.740 --> 00:30:02.000
tricky isn't it um yeah and i can't even imagine

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.619
how frustrating it is i did once did one day

00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:07.640
of not speaking for a day to use money for charity

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.960
And I failed completely. I spoke about 10 times

00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.599
in the day. It's so hard when it's your first

00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:20.940
means of communication. So yeah, I just think

00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:23.559
they're amazing. And how well they communicate

00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.819
when minimally speaking or non -speaking as well.

00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:32.079
They really do get their needs known. And it

00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.559
may not be the safest or appropriate way, but

00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:36.799
they definitely get their needs known for the

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.819
most part. really give them credit for that it's

00:30:39.819 --> 00:30:43.099
incredible how they find ways to communicate

00:30:43.099 --> 00:30:46.799
what they need and want which is just basic needs

00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.079
isn't it I wonder I really hope that through

00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.839
this affirming practices that mental health figures

00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:55.799
improve as well I was reading some awful percentages

00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:01.140
today that um well with analytical learners one

00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:05.690
in four people one in ten sorry will um have

00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:09.029
a some kind of mental health um struggle in their

00:31:09.029 --> 00:31:12.289
life that's just a standard and then if you have

00:31:12.289 --> 00:31:16.529
um a neurodivergence or a cognitive disability

00:31:16.529 --> 00:31:19.049
it's one in four and then if you have a physical

00:31:19.049 --> 00:31:22.890
disability on top of that it's 85 and they don't

00:31:22.890 --> 00:31:24.930
even know the figures really because these kids

00:31:24.930 --> 00:31:28.569
aren't easy to get medical research for that

00:31:28.569 --> 00:31:31.710
from yeah but they've done enough to work out

00:31:31.710 --> 00:31:35.640
that it's at least 85 i mean they're horrifying

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.539
numbers like I can't hear that and want to make

00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:42.819
a change absolutely and then thinking back to

00:31:42.819 --> 00:31:44.680
your child that you were just talking about that

00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:47.720
was distressed and couldn't have words well surely

00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:51.380
communication and regulation are the start of

00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:54.779
improving mental health surely yeah I think it's

00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:57.500
got to be and I think It's then almost again

00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:00.420
taking that step back as to, okay, so what's

00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:02.579
the lens through which we're viewing these difficulties?

00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:06.819
And how do we then kind of support that communication

00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:09.420
and regulation? And I think that is then part

00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:12.460
of the bigger conversation around behavior support

00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.720
and the narrative through which we view the way

00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:17.619
that some of these children show up at times.

00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.200
I recently did an inset day training at a school.

00:32:21.259 --> 00:32:23.650
We were talking to them about how... you know

00:32:23.650 --> 00:32:26.309
Ross Green's work and particularly around ADHD

00:32:26.309 --> 00:32:29.150
children but I think it is for all children in

00:32:29.150 --> 00:32:32.049
my view that kids do well when they can and I

00:32:32.049 --> 00:32:34.690
think for me that is so powerful because if a

00:32:34.690 --> 00:32:38.130
child is not doing well you know firstly whose

00:32:38.130 --> 00:32:40.730
expectation is what is well and that's a question

00:32:40.730 --> 00:32:43.630
in itself um but then if they're not like we

00:32:43.630 --> 00:32:45.549
need to look at what's going on around them right

00:32:45.549 --> 00:32:47.789
and thinking about their internal state those

00:32:47.789 --> 00:32:50.529
basic needs are they met can they communicate

00:32:50.529 --> 00:32:54.079
that Do they feel safe and secure? Do they feel,

00:32:54.259 --> 00:32:56.859
you know, are they fed? Are they watered? Like,

00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:59.500
have they had a good rest? Do they need the toilet?

00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:01.920
Do they know if they need the toilet? You know,

00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.740
are they uncomfortable? Exactly. And I think

00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:07.400
we then kind of look at that and then the next

00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.559
piece around them becomes that, OK, so how do

00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:12.019
we work out what's going on and then teach them

00:33:12.019 --> 00:33:14.079
the ways to regulate that and communicate that?

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.259
And also thinking about, for me, part of that

00:33:17.259 --> 00:33:19.819
is the environment. And that inclusive communication

00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:22.480
environment that's going on. But I also think

00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.180
sometimes the activities, you know, like I see

00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:28.339
some kids who perhaps are presenting as not doing

00:33:28.339 --> 00:33:30.880
so well and that kind of challenging time. But

00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:32.740
I think is that because the activity is too hard?

00:33:33.259 --> 00:33:35.779
or not hard enough, and therefore they're a bit

00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:37.680
disinterested in creating their own entertainment.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.579
Or too overstimulating or understimulating and

00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:44.279
uninteresting. That's it. And I think also for

00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.539
me, part of that is also recognising that fluctuating

00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:48.920
capacity of neurodivergent kids, right? Because

00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:50.720
they might be able to do something one day that

00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.779
they can't do the next day, or even in the morning

00:33:52.779 --> 00:33:55.099
that they can't do in the afternoon. And that,

00:33:55.099 --> 00:33:57.240
for a lot of people, can be quite baffling. But

00:33:57.240 --> 00:33:59.599
if we take an affirming approach and an honouring

00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:03.980
approach, it is about... believe in kids tuning

00:34:03.980 --> 00:34:05.720
in and getting to know them and getting to know

00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:08.760
when are those times to perhaps push and perhaps

00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.260
kind of encourage a bit more and when are the

00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:14.480
times to just go that's cool i can see you're

00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.480
done we need to focus on that regulation piece

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.380
let's bring your energy back in line whether

00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:21.519
it's too low too high to get you in a better

00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.780
place and then we'll see what's next you know

00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:26.039
um and i think for me so much of that affirming

00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.969
practice around communication starts at that

00:34:28.969 --> 00:34:31.030
level you know starts at taking a step back and

00:34:31.030 --> 00:34:34.349
just seeing what's going on and I'm believing

00:34:34.349 --> 00:34:36.889
kids you know there's so much power in validation

00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:42.789
um around just listening isn't there and I think

00:34:42.789 --> 00:34:45.530
that's the case for any kind of level of learner

00:34:45.530 --> 00:34:47.769
and support needs you know I could work with

00:34:47.769 --> 00:34:50.329
some really high support needs kids and they

00:34:50.329 --> 00:34:54.230
might be you know communicating through self

00:34:54.230 --> 00:34:56.289
-injurious behavior that their frustration and

00:34:56.289 --> 00:34:58.650
just being able to validate say It's really frustrating.

00:34:58.929 --> 00:35:01.329
You know, I think there's sometimes this view

00:35:01.329 --> 00:35:03.170
in our minds that actually children don't have

00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:05.550
capacity for language and don't have capacity

00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:07.730
for understanding because of their lack of expressive

00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:11.070
language. And yeah, they might not in that moment,

00:35:11.110 --> 00:35:13.190
but we can teach it and we have to believe that

00:35:13.190 --> 00:35:15.690
they have capacity to understand it. So that

00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:18.449
kind of validation and giving, my supervisor

00:35:18.449 --> 00:35:21.010
Kate Boot talks about language for experience.

00:35:21.090 --> 00:35:22.750
And I think that's it. It's like actually in

00:35:22.750 --> 00:35:24.610
those moments, giving some language to the experience

00:35:24.610 --> 00:35:27.179
that they're having and honouring. how they're

00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:29.380
showing up and then thinking about that step

00:35:29.380 --> 00:35:31.980
back and what do we need to do next time to support

00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.840
communication and regulation in those situations

00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.679
so would it look like naming maybe what they're

00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:41.920
expressing so I can I can see you're frustrated

00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.340
that you can't do this like is it is it is that

00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:48.099
what it sounds like yeah I mean for me sometimes

00:35:48.099 --> 00:35:50.079
it sounds like that there is challenge isn't

00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:51.599
there in trying to name emotions for somebody

00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:56.299
else yeah so how do you navigate that Usually

00:35:56.299 --> 00:35:58.599
what I find myself saying is like, this seems

00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:01.780
tough or it's hard. I like that. Some things

00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:04.340
I can see this is tricky. I sometimes will on

00:36:04.340 --> 00:36:06.619
an AAC device, like we use quite a lot of grid

00:36:06.619 --> 00:36:09.659
and smart box, but anything they've got one on

00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:11.139
their messages, there's just something's wrong.

00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:13.619
And so I might just model that, I think, and

00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:16.280
say something's wrong. Yeah, because that's not

00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.719
putting on to them what they're feeling. It's

00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:22.340
just I can see something's wrong. Yeah. That

00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:25.690
is clear. Yeah. that's still validating isn't

00:36:25.690 --> 00:36:29.449
it that that i can see something's wrong i .e

00:36:29.449 --> 00:36:35.110
can i help and sometimes i would just say like

00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:38.449
i'm here like you know and i do that on a device

00:36:38.449 --> 00:36:40.250
i do that with my language i do that with my

00:36:40.250 --> 00:36:43.349
body language you know and just be like i'm here

00:36:43.349 --> 00:36:46.349
and i'm gonna you know you're safe like it will

00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:50.170
be okay but so you can give like language i think

00:36:50.170 --> 00:36:53.090
that that kind of validates the experience and

00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:55.250
links in with their experiences but also kind

00:36:55.250 --> 00:36:58.610
of reassuring nurturing in those moments but

00:36:58.610 --> 00:37:01.150
generally like again that's a practice years

00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:02.550
ago I'd have been like we label the emotions

00:37:02.550 --> 00:37:05.610
and like show them the symbol and now I'm like

00:37:05.610 --> 00:37:09.809
okay no that makes so much sense to me yeah I've

00:37:09.809 --> 00:37:12.389
always struggled with how to say it so that make

00:37:12.389 --> 00:37:15.030
that is makes so much sense and I feel like maybe

00:37:15.030 --> 00:37:18.730
the more we do that then becomes easier to find

00:37:18.730 --> 00:37:22.690
that language to find that script that isn't

00:37:22.690 --> 00:37:26.010
um putting on them what they may not be feeling

00:37:26.010 --> 00:37:30.110
and yet still showing them that you're you've

00:37:30.110 --> 00:37:33.150
shown up for them yeah and I think like so often

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:35.150
you know the difference between anxiety and frustration

00:37:35.150 --> 00:37:37.489
like how do we know that their frustration is

00:37:37.489 --> 00:37:40.329
not driven by anxiety and so I think you know

00:37:40.329 --> 00:37:42.690
and and some of these kids they don't necessarily

00:37:42.690 --> 00:37:45.369
have the skills at this point in time to talk

00:37:45.369 --> 00:37:48.380
about what it was but there is sort of comfort

00:37:48.380 --> 00:37:52.480
in validation um and one of the things i talk

00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.719
a lot to staff about is our natural reaction

00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.099
to say it's okay and actually what i'm trying

00:37:57.099 --> 00:38:00.420
to get people to say it's not okay yeah because

00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:02.360
again that's that's language their experience

00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:04.980
that they're having so i think we can say like

00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.980
i can see it's not okay you know i can see it's

00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:12.739
tricky like i'm here you're safe it will be okay

00:38:12.739 --> 00:38:15.159
you know those kinds of things and again you

00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:17.519
know the children you're working with to tune

00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:20.179
in and know how much language is too much I mean

00:38:20.179 --> 00:38:22.320
that's the point as well isn't it that if you've

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:24.199
got a good relationship and a trusting relationship

00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.199
with this child already which is what I would

00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:31.500
like it has to be that way then they will also

00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:34.880
know that you mean best as well so even if you

00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.000
get it wrong or you're too close or whatever

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.699
if you've got that trusting relationship there's

00:38:40.190 --> 00:38:42.429
there's a little bit more leniency there a little

00:38:42.429 --> 00:38:43.929
bit you can kind of work it through together

00:38:43.929 --> 00:38:46.610
whereas if you come in and you haven't got those

00:38:46.610 --> 00:38:48.570
trust relationships you haven't built that connection

00:38:48.570 --> 00:38:51.690
yet it's going to be really tricky and even if

00:38:51.690 --> 00:38:53.309
you are saying the right things and doing the

00:38:53.309 --> 00:38:55.070
right things it's going to be really hard for

00:38:55.070 --> 00:38:57.289
them to trust that you in that moment when they're

00:38:57.289 --> 00:39:01.670
completely in flight or flight mode yeah yeah

00:39:01.670 --> 00:39:05.289
yeah so it's so important that when just taking

00:39:05.289 --> 00:39:07.510
every opportunity to build those connections

00:39:07.510 --> 00:39:09.929
and that looks like being led by them doesn't

00:39:09.929 --> 00:39:13.809
it yeah yeah definitely and validating and and

00:39:13.809 --> 00:39:17.150
you know sort of sharing their joy and also being

00:39:17.150 --> 00:39:19.989
there when it's not so joyful yeah not just being

00:39:19.989 --> 00:39:22.989
there not just showing up when it's crisis no

00:39:22.989 --> 00:39:25.510
I feel like it's really it's really easy to fall

00:39:25.510 --> 00:39:28.170
into those traps of certain people certain people's

00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:32.519
that they just get on they're just there In the

00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:36.059
background, just chilling. They're transitions.

00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.539
They're pretty happy. They're pretty independent.

00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:41.800
Like everyone, well, maybe not everyone's got

00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:43.559
one of the cards. I certainly got children like

00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.820
that in my class. Yeah, and they just kind of

00:39:46.820 --> 00:39:51.599
get on. And it's so easy to focus on the crisis

00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.579
in that moment, which is very rarely them. And

00:39:55.579 --> 00:39:58.500
actually, they're missing out. And if they learn.

00:39:59.289 --> 00:40:01.690
The only way I get help or the only way I can

00:40:01.690 --> 00:40:04.010
build a connection or interaction with you, even

00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:08.050
if it's not a nice one, where I feel in control

00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:11.309
of my body, maybe they're going to do that. And

00:40:11.309 --> 00:40:16.829
then maybe you'll start seeing some unsafe behaviours

00:40:16.829 --> 00:40:19.730
just through lack of attention, really. It's

00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:22.170
what it comes down to. I've certainly seen that

00:40:22.170 --> 00:40:24.230
in every single one of my classes and it's such.

00:40:24.710 --> 00:40:27.190
an easy trap to fall into and it's certainly

00:40:27.190 --> 00:40:29.610
one that i'm very conscious of in my class at

00:40:29.610 --> 00:40:30.989
the moment it's something that we're working

00:40:30.989 --> 00:40:36.670
really hard to not happen yeah we're seeing some

00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:39.849
behaviors bubbling up and the only thing i can

00:40:39.849 --> 00:40:42.610
think of is well yeah of course they are it's

00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:45.889
how they get interaction yeah no it's so simple

00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:48.190
in my mind it might not be again we're just guessing

00:40:48.190 --> 00:40:50.369
we're being curious but it makes sense to me

00:40:50.369 --> 00:40:53.739
that that would be the thing yeah And then you

00:40:53.739 --> 00:40:55.179
take that step back, don't you? And then you

00:40:55.179 --> 00:40:57.400
think, OK, so if we put in a bit more one to

00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.320
one time for that child that's bubbling, you

00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.159
know, and even if that's five minutes a day of

00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:04.000
just some intensive interaction or some child

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.280
led play and see what happens. Because so often

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.059
I think, you know, we we need to do the curiosity

00:41:11.059 --> 00:41:14.199
piece, but ultimately it becomes a hypothesis,

00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.500
doesn't it? And there are times where that hypothesis

00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:18.559
is untestable, you know, like you can't work

00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:21.139
it out. And sometimes it's just a phase. Maybe

00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:22.440
something's going on for that child internally

00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.139
that we can't see, we can't work out. And within

00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:26.920
a few days, things settle down again, you know.

00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:28.980
Other times it's not. And you kind of have a

00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.059
chance to test the hypothesis and think, I wonder

00:41:31.059 --> 00:41:33.440
if it's this. Let's do that a bit differently

00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:35.519
and see what happens. Or, you know, like do the

00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.480
transition a little bit earlier or a bit later.

00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:41.280
Or let's put in a social story and see if that

00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.219
helps, you know. I think those kinds of things

00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:46.400
can be like really powerful. I was working with

00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.539
a family in the summer and we had a situation

00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:52.840
around sleep and kind of the parent had a hypothesis.

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:54.579
And I said, well, look, let me write a social

00:41:54.579 --> 00:41:56.440
story about this hypothesis and we'll just see.

00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.219
And they read the social story and their child

00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:01.159
went back to sleeping. You know, like those moments

00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:02.860
where you're like, well, what's the worst that

00:42:02.860 --> 00:42:05.380
could happen? Yeah, it just doesn't make a difference.

00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:08.059
Well, you're no worse off, are you? No, no. And

00:42:08.059 --> 00:42:10.320
so some of these things are. are worth exploring

00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.199
aren't they to test that hypothesis and just

00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.300
see like oh okay like is that gonna benefit is

00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.440
that gonna change the situation and again thinking

00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:20.199
about that kind of like so is there something

00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:21.960
in the environment we change is it about the

00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.119
activities or is it the way we're supporting

00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.659
and I kind of think about that triangle really

00:42:26.659 --> 00:42:29.260
around the child in the center is let's look

00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:30.920
at those three different pieces and see if we

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.380
can work out which bit we might need to shift

00:42:33.380 --> 00:42:35.739
the only thing it's not is changing them right

00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:38.820
yeah because they're often not the problem and

00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:42.559
i think that's so often lots of settings even

00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:44.679
if they're not really conscious of it that's

00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.760
their first thought let's take the device away

00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.460
it's distracting or let's fit them to sit down

00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.420
or let's you know whatever it is it's in a reward

00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:56.099
system they're not doing what we want to do let's

00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:58.719
put in a reward system so every time they sit

00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.039
down we'll give them a sticker you know and and

00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.360
hopefully in time we will quash their sensory

00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:06.619
needs in compliance you know and I just think

00:43:06.619 --> 00:43:09.320
yeah it's classic it is isn't it and I even I

00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.119
notice I'm sitting here now and I'm I struggle

00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:14.119
to sit still like it's a thing and I think that

00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:16.300
we recognize you know so often this thing is

00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:18.820
like yeah but in the adult world and I think

00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:20.480
in the adult world we have so much more autonomy

00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.880
over what we do when we do and how we do it and

00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.159
equally I think that some of these children with

00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:30.639
particularly high support needs like they're

00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.239
going to be in a place where they probably have

00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:35.610
even more autonomy because their you know like

00:43:35.610 --> 00:43:37.849
my job before i was a speech therapist i was

00:43:37.849 --> 00:43:41.190
a support worker and like house manager for adults

00:43:41.190 --> 00:43:43.929
with learning disabilities and they had total

00:43:43.929 --> 00:43:46.170
autonomy like they would choose what they wanted

00:43:46.170 --> 00:43:48.789
to do every day like we would get them involved

00:43:48.789 --> 00:43:50.369
in things and if they didn't want to get involved

00:43:50.369 --> 00:43:52.429
in the washing they didn't do it wanted to wear

00:43:52.429 --> 00:43:57.289
yeah do non -aid appropriate activity like when

00:43:57.289 --> 00:44:00.130
did that become a thing let's turn to that sentence

00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:05.489
yeah like offer them choices so like I have created

00:44:05.489 --> 00:44:09.530
a program and someone was saying, you know, I

00:44:09.530 --> 00:44:14.610
work with secondary school age adults, like young

00:44:14.610 --> 00:44:19.150
people. But cognitively, you know, like we're

00:44:19.150 --> 00:44:21.989
into other things. You know, is your program

00:44:21.989 --> 00:44:23.929
appropriate? And I was like, well, there's lots

00:44:23.929 --> 00:44:25.690
of options on it. There's pop music, there's

00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:29.199
rock music. There's TV adverts, there's Disney,

00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:32.699
there's Cocomelon. Give them options of everything

00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:34.860
and let them show you what's appropriate. I can't

00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:38.019
answer that for them. No, no. I've had children

00:44:38.019 --> 00:44:40.719
that love Beyonce. I've got a child in my class

00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:44.239
that loves classical music. Give them all the

00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.960
options and they will show you. I guess that's

00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:48.500
similar, that comes back around to speech and

00:44:48.500 --> 00:44:50.059
language as well, isn't it? One of my questions

00:44:50.059 --> 00:44:54.500
was... how do you get started so you've got a

00:44:54.500 --> 00:44:57.000
minimally speaking child in your class or a non

00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.460
-speaking child in your class or even a child

00:44:58.460 --> 00:44:59.920
that speaks but maybe if they're dysregulated

00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:03.500
they kind of lose some of their words maybe how

00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:06.739
do you get started is it the same is it just

00:45:06.739 --> 00:45:10.179
like just have available as much as you can and

00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:11.920
see what they gravitate towards and model it

00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.619
is it Well, honestly, my like first therapy session

00:45:15.619 --> 00:45:18.039
when I go to first meet a child, OK, I get a

00:45:18.039 --> 00:45:19.719
referral and I think, right, yeah, I can take

00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.079
this on. I would take a bag of stuff. I usually

00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:24.960
just put the bag down for a bit and just see

00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:26.599
because that gives me some information about

00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:28.760
how safe that child feels. Are they initiating

00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.579
looking in my bag? Are they not? It's like literally

00:45:31.579 --> 00:45:34.320
like a Tesco Minions bag for life that I take

00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.559
everywhere. It kind of gauges, it helps me gauge

00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.619
when a kid starts wanting to look in my bag and

00:45:39.619 --> 00:45:41.099
open it up and I'm like, okay, they're starting

00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:42.679
to feel safe because they're initiating some

00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:44.500
interaction with me and the things that I take.

00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:47.340
Sometimes I don't take anything and I would just

00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:49.260
go and see what they're doing in their environment.

00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:52.460
Often it can be tricky sometimes if you take

00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:55.679
too much equipment because parents then might

00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:57.440
feel or schools might feel they've suddenly got

00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:59.079
to have all this stuff. So actually it can be

00:45:59.079 --> 00:46:01.059
quite helpful to work with what is in the setting.

00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:03.780
But I do, I just see like what are their interests

00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:06.460
and I just observe and I just tune in. If they

00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:08.760
don't kind of initiate, I might see what they're

00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.400
using in their environment. What are they kind

00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.340
of gravitating towards? And some assessments,

00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:14.820
I might be there for like an hour and a half,

00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:18.380
two hours, you know, and it is just about seeing

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:21.559
and observing. Like, yeah, I'd take a range of

00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:24.039
different sensory and regulation tools. I'd take

00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.420
just some different toys like that, you know.

00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:29.980
spinny things and light up things and you know

00:46:29.980 --> 00:46:32.280
sort of stacking things and all sorts of different

00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.900
play schemas you know like things that lend itself

00:46:34.900 --> 00:46:36.940
to posting and you know all that kind of stuff

00:46:36.940 --> 00:46:39.860
and just see like what they interested in and

00:46:39.860 --> 00:46:43.280
and then when they do it's then about kind of

00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.980
gauging and tuning in like being alongside them

00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:48.019
like do you want me here and then that's another

00:46:48.019 --> 00:46:50.260
opportunity like particularly in a first session

00:46:50.260 --> 00:46:52.500
sometimes you go a bit too close and you can

00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.340
see them look or they may be pushed go away Ruth

00:46:55.340 --> 00:46:58.599
and I'll give them the language right yeah so

00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:01.119
I'll say like go away and I'll say I'm sorry

00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:03.460
like I got that wrong you know like because I

00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:06.780
can model too that I'm learning again that's

00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:08.719
kind of that safety and trust it's just been

00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.019
like yeah I'm sorry actually I can see that you

00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:12.800
needed me to go away like give me some space

00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:16.260
and I think that's kind of how I've generally

00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:18.559
approached that first session and then I would

00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:20.480
come out and be like okay I've got in my head

00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.949
now where that child's at with those kind of

00:47:23.949 --> 00:47:27.409
foundation communications around joy and around

00:47:27.409 --> 00:47:29.449
play and that's when I kind of think okay so

00:47:29.449 --> 00:47:32.110
what's next how can we kind of map some communication

00:47:32.110 --> 00:47:35.610
strategies into these things that this child

00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:39.250
is into without also killing it yeah true yeah

00:47:39.250 --> 00:47:42.590
yeah true it's such a balance isn't it is it

00:47:42.590 --> 00:47:44.530
often you going into the environment that they

00:47:44.530 --> 00:47:47.730
know yeah yeah I don't have a clinic and even

00:47:47.730 --> 00:47:49.630
when I was an employed therapist I'd usually

00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:52.380
go and be with them in a classroom that's a huge

00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:55.760
barrier isn't it already you're asking so much

00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:59.679
of them aren't you yeah yeah transitions can

00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.099
be huge you know and while there is merit in

00:48:03.099 --> 00:48:05.500
being in a quiet environment again if we're thinking

00:48:05.500 --> 00:48:09.820
about honoring affirming therapy practices like

00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:12.000
how useful is it to get them to sit down and

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.159
be like put the you know the cup on the table

00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:18.110
or brush the dolly or feed the teddy like I don't

00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:20.829
know, I feel like I can gain information around

00:48:20.829 --> 00:48:23.030
what they understand by observing them in the

00:48:23.030 --> 00:48:24.989
classroom and I can think about what cues are

00:48:24.989 --> 00:48:26.929
they picking up on and what visuals help them

00:48:26.929 --> 00:48:30.250
and how many instructions. If they're in a quiet

00:48:30.250 --> 00:48:32.010
room when they're working with you, you could

00:48:32.010 --> 00:48:34.289
be able to do some wonderful things with them,

00:48:34.369 --> 00:48:39.210
but out of context, how useful is that? But they

00:48:39.210 --> 00:48:42.550
work in a classroom or they work at home. That's

00:48:42.550 --> 00:48:45.329
their environment, so let's work there and see

00:48:45.329 --> 00:48:48.389
what's possible. there I suppose I guess both

00:48:48.389 --> 00:48:51.369
have their classes but some sessions I do a bit

00:48:51.369 --> 00:48:53.650
of both like I might go in and into school and

00:48:53.650 --> 00:48:55.309
spend a bit of time in the classroom with the

00:48:55.309 --> 00:48:57.170
child and then if we're feeling okay with transition

00:48:57.170 --> 00:48:59.130
but again I'd offer them a choice like do you

00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:01.070
want to come or do you want to stay and see what

00:49:01.070 --> 00:49:04.530
they do you know because also I think from a

00:49:04.530 --> 00:49:06.829
communication perspective it's really beneficial

00:49:06.829 --> 00:49:09.610
for if you're in the setting for parents to see

00:49:09.610 --> 00:49:11.889
what you're doing and how you're doing it or

00:49:11.889 --> 00:49:15.500
for education staff because Their obsession is

00:49:15.500 --> 00:49:18.500
like a minuscule amount. And so if the people

00:49:18.500 --> 00:49:20.139
around the child aren't using those strategies

00:49:20.139 --> 00:49:22.199
the rest of the week, then we see such slow progress.

00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:26.300
Yet when we see everybody on board smashing those

00:49:26.300 --> 00:49:29.340
approaches, the progress just goes whomp. And

00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:31.719
I know as an educator, like I read so many speech

00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:34.039
and language reports and I can kind of have an

00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:38.119
idea of what they mean. But them actually showing

00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:41.250
me. with the child in the environment with the

00:49:41.250 --> 00:49:44.550
resources is so much clearer and it makes it

00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:48.510
so much more doable and you know understandable

00:49:48.510 --> 00:49:51.570
for all of us to then feel confident to carry

00:49:51.570 --> 00:49:53.889
it on when they're not there so yeah showing

00:49:53.889 --> 00:49:57.349
rather than writing and reading is is crucial

00:49:57.349 --> 00:50:00.489
yeah i think so i do a lot of videos that i send

00:50:00.489 --> 00:50:02.650
to parents and teachers about like these are

00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:04.480
you know this is where you can find the vocab

00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:06.219
on the device or like this is an activity you

00:50:06.219 --> 00:50:08.980
could try um where I've got consent I like video

00:50:08.980 --> 00:50:11.480
bits of sessions say if I'm in school that I

00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:13.280
can then send to a parent so they can see what

00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.199
I've been doing and how I'm doing it um and I

00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.400
think it's about making the resources accessible

00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.659
which is why I do quite like paper -based AAC

00:50:20.659 --> 00:50:23.159
because that is something that you can like you

00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:24.940
know you can print out core vocabulary boards

00:50:24.940 --> 00:50:28.780
like buy the 10s and 20s and laminate them and

00:50:28.780 --> 00:50:30.860
just sort of, you know, fritter them around as

00:50:30.860 --> 00:50:31.780
you're going on your two rounds. And they're

00:50:31.780 --> 00:50:35.099
freely available. Yeah. Search the symbol language

00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:37.739
program that you use or that your child knows

00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:39.719
or they know at school or is on their AC or whatever.

00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:43.199
Yeah. They'll be free ones. All of them. Contact

00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:46.099
the company. They all send you them. So don't

00:50:46.099 --> 00:50:48.000
let that be a barrier. Don't let the fact that

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.519
you don't have this program or that program be

00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:51.519
a barrier to you. They will be freely available.

00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:54.920
Contact me or Ruth and we'll send you them. yeah

00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:57.340
i don't want that to be a barrier to not getting

00:50:57.340 --> 00:51:01.780
access to to a paper -based copy i mean yeah

00:51:01.780 --> 00:51:04.320
and it's a simple way to start and explore like

00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.239
for some kids they don't they might like throw

00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.119
it away and they might swish it away but actually

00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:10.079
adults to model as well though isn't it even

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.280
if the child isn't interested i think my tas

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:16.659
were much less nervous of a paper -based model

00:51:16.659 --> 00:51:21.159
to model them ipad and because it looked like

00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:22.880
her ipad then they could they could transition

00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.360
over to that a little bit easier as well as they

00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:28.619
got confident in finding it my core sessions

00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:31.420
are really funny actually because so often the

00:51:31.420 --> 00:51:33.320
kids are just in and out getting ice oh god we've

00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:36.320
got this new ice thing and they're they're more

00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:38.460
in the freezer now than they are in my classroom

00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:40.739
or whatever so they're out getting ice and outside

00:51:40.739 --> 00:51:42.619
whatever and i've got four teaching assistants

00:51:42.619 --> 00:51:45.940
around me trying to find anywhere on the ipad

00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:49.369
it's just brilliant i love it But yeah, that's

00:51:49.369 --> 00:51:50.849
how you learn, isn't it? We're all beginners

00:51:50.849 --> 00:51:54.230
at this. We're all learning. I think that's something

00:51:54.230 --> 00:51:55.909
that we don't necessarily give enough credit

00:51:55.909 --> 00:51:57.349
to. And, you know, people will like hang their

00:51:57.349 --> 00:51:59.369
hat on high tech AAC. We're going to get the

00:51:59.369 --> 00:52:01.389
device. We're going to get the iPad. Like it

00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:03.510
is actually like trying to learn a new language.

00:52:03.530 --> 00:52:06.369
So if you start with a paper based core vocabulary

00:52:06.369 --> 00:52:08.489
board that is the same as usually the front page

00:52:08.489 --> 00:52:12.400
of most of those apps. You can get to grips with

00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.579
it without being so totally overwhelmed that

00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:16.440
you shelf the device because you think I can

00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.199
never find the word. I don't know what I'm doing.

00:52:18.340 --> 00:52:20.659
And I think that that is so important that we

00:52:20.659 --> 00:52:23.440
recognize for communication partners, being a

00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:26.260
communication partner is a skill on so many levels,

00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:29.159
that tuning in, that noticing, that when to model,

00:52:29.260 --> 00:52:31.460
what to model, how to model. Keeping it charged,

00:52:31.579 --> 00:52:36.710
keeping it not smashed. Yeah. Yeah. it just becomes

00:52:36.710 --> 00:52:39.469
it can be very overwhelming set of skills to

00:52:39.469 --> 00:52:42.289
develop and i think that needs to again go back

00:52:42.289 --> 00:52:44.250
to well -being of people actually just recognizing

00:52:44.250 --> 00:52:47.309
that yeah no there's a lovely quote from i think

00:52:47.309 --> 00:52:49.710
it's like buchelman and it talks about aac like

00:52:49.710 --> 00:52:51.829
if you gave someone a piano they can't learn

00:52:51.829 --> 00:52:54.130
to be a pianist any more than if you give someone

00:52:54.130 --> 00:52:56.469
an aac device they just are a communicator we

00:52:56.469 --> 00:52:58.869
have to teach them But actually that applies

00:52:58.869 --> 00:53:01.090
equally to adult communication partners because

00:53:01.090 --> 00:53:03.949
we aren't just communicators with AAC just because

00:53:03.949 --> 00:53:05.909
we've got it. We need to play with it. We need

00:53:05.909 --> 00:53:08.570
to try it. Like I remember introducing pod books

00:53:08.570 --> 00:53:11.630
at a school, which is pragmatic, organized, dynamic

00:53:11.630 --> 00:53:14.130
display. And I love pod. I think it's such a

00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:17.050
cool approach. I really like the social pragmatic

00:53:17.050 --> 00:53:21.320
way that language is set up. and we had them

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.500
in the staff rooms and in the therapy offices

00:53:23.500 --> 00:53:25.760
so people could play with them while we were

00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:27.420
kind of printing them out and getting them going

00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:29.539
so people could just get used to it because it

00:53:29.539 --> 00:53:32.119
was a very different way of that like core vocabulary

00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:35.320
like language structuring sentences modeling

00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:36.880
it was suddenly this like I've got something

00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.199
to say turn to a page and you know so we just

00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:40.860
played about with them for a bit to get used

00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.619
to them because one system in the class either

00:53:43.619 --> 00:53:47.559
are you so We've got three different AAC apps

00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:50.800
in my room for 10 children, you know. So your

00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:54.679
muscle memory is learning one and then you go

00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:56.639
to another child and you think, hang on a minute.

00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:01.079
Yeah. You know. Yeah. And that's a lot. It's

00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:03.940
a lot. It's a lot. And it's definitely easier

00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:07.820
to not bother. Like for us, it's easier for us

00:54:07.820 --> 00:54:10.719
to think, oh, like we haven't got time. We need

00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:14.090
to go swimming. Just get it or just. I'll just

00:54:14.090 --> 00:54:19.250
do it for you. And it feels kind in the moment,

00:54:19.389 --> 00:54:22.530
but it just isn't. I'd rather be late for swimming.

00:54:23.010 --> 00:54:28.769
My lesson before swimming is I made it purposefully,

00:54:28.769 --> 00:54:31.690
personal, social and emotional. So our lesson

00:54:31.690 --> 00:54:35.070
for a whole hour before swimming is just getting

00:54:35.070 --> 00:54:39.269
ready for swimming without prompting. That's

00:54:39.269 --> 00:54:41.130
our lesson. And it's more of a lesson for us,

00:54:41.449 --> 00:54:44.119
to be honest. It's like, you are not allowed

00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:47.179
to say, check your timetable. You are not allowed

00:54:47.179 --> 00:54:48.880
to say, get your boots. You are not allowed to

00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:51.039
do a zip for them. You're like, whatever it is,

00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:54.280
just you put on your coat, you get your boots

00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:56.400
and just be one step ahead of them. Don't be

00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:58.679
like way ahead of them. Just be one step ahead

00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.079
and keep repeating your little step until they

00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:03.800
get it or whatever. Yeah, I think that's it.

00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:08.960
But I've got the luxury of having a school that

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:13.000
completely trusts me to create whatever. I can

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.280
do whatever I want, which is such luxury. I speak

00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:17.659
to so many teachers, but it just breaks my heart

00:55:17.659 --> 00:55:20.019
how rigid their schools are. And it's such a

00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:22.079
huge barrier. I think one of the biggest barriers

00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:26.079
to these kids isn't finances. It's rigidity with

00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:29.019
the senior leadership team, honestly. They are

00:55:29.019 --> 00:55:33.199
so scared of change. I just think if you believe

00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:36.079
the kids, but also believe the teacher, believe

00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:39.340
the teacher, because when they say, I just need

00:55:39.340 --> 00:55:42.679
half an hour to do this, or I just... I really

00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.880
want to go on this training or I need an extra

00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:51.659
dinner lady at 12, between 12 and 10 past 12.

00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:55.340
I really need that extra person. Just believe

00:55:55.340 --> 00:55:58.320
them. Yeah. And I think I was listening to a

00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.719
podcast actually, and it was Carrie Grant and

00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.500
David Grant. And they were talking about like,

00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:06.039
basically, are you prepared to break the rules?

00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:09.230
Because in order to support. complex needs additional

00:56:09.230 --> 00:56:11.869
needs neurodivergent children you need to be

00:56:11.869 --> 00:56:14.789
prepared to break the rules and I think that

00:56:14.789 --> 00:56:18.369
is something that is so powerful because that's

00:56:18.369 --> 00:56:20.070
what we're doing ultimately isn't it and you

00:56:20.070 --> 00:56:21.949
know you can you can chain it all the way back

00:56:21.949 --> 00:56:24.250
to all sorts of complex social policies and things

00:56:24.250 --> 00:56:27.289
but ultimately like schools need to break the

00:56:27.289 --> 00:56:30.489
rules and break the boundaries and I was only

00:56:30.489 --> 00:56:32.309
having a conversation literally this afternoon

00:56:32.309 --> 00:56:35.250
with a neurodivergent teenager about schools

00:56:35.250 --> 00:56:39.579
and how they could do better to support children

00:56:39.579 --> 00:56:43.320
if they delivered different kinds of lessons

00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.480
you know talking about kids who are brilliant

00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:48.440
at gaming who have like a lot of creativity but

00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:51.039
actually schools expectations for them to sit

00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.340
still and do all these lessons on repeat you

00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.260
know and study subjects that aren't interesting

00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.789
to them and you know again it goes back to that

00:56:57.789 --> 00:56:59.469
but in the adult world well in the adult world

00:56:59.469 --> 00:57:02.030
most of us will pursue a hobby we enjoy we will

00:57:02.030 --> 00:57:04.389
try and find a job that we enjoy yeah that's

00:57:04.389 --> 00:57:06.949
more active that's outdoors you know why do you

00:57:06.949 --> 00:57:08.909
have to wait until college to then start doing

00:57:08.909 --> 00:57:11.710
apprenticeship style stuff you know yeah it's

00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:14.050
really bizarre it's definitely why i'm not a

00:57:14.050 --> 00:57:16.070
mainstream teacher and why i'm in special ed

00:57:16.070 --> 00:57:19.769
because i am a rebellious i am a problem solver

00:57:19.769 --> 00:57:23.530
i can't see problem in front of me and know a

00:57:23.530 --> 00:57:26.320
solution and not do it Whether it's in the rules

00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:28.539
or not, that's just part of me. And in my old

00:57:28.539 --> 00:57:31.139
job, it got me in a lot of trouble. And in this

00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:33.179
job, luckily, they are far more trusting and

00:57:33.179 --> 00:57:35.139
just let me get on with it. I don't think even

00:57:35.139 --> 00:57:37.639
special ed is always consistently like that.

00:57:37.900 --> 00:57:40.599
It's really not. My last school was special ed.

00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:43.960
My last school was special ed school. And incredibly

00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.480
rigid, incredibly institutionalised, terrified

00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:48.940
of change. More terrified than the mainstream.

00:57:49.059 --> 00:57:52.039
I'm in a mainstream school now. Okay. Yeah, so

00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.019
I'm in a mainstream school in a special ed provision.

00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:55.940
Oh, okay, yeah. So they need the HCP to be there,

00:57:55.940 --> 00:57:57.900
but they're mainstream. Far more trusting. I

00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.119
think because they don't really have a clue what

00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:00.500
to do, so they're like, yeah, I'm sure she knows.

00:58:01.019 --> 00:58:02.800
Whereas in a special ed school, they kind of

00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:07.500
know enough to have an opinion. But it was so

00:58:07.500 --> 00:58:10.840
outdated that it was really institutionalised

00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:14.940
and rigid and, yeah, just terrified to make any

00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:17.559
changes. So, yeah, don't think that this is mainstream

00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:20.300
versus SEN. It definitely isn't. No. It just

00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:24.360
is. potluck as to how your school is really yeah

00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:26.340
and equally I think it goes back to what you're

00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:27.940
saying doesn't it about feeling comfortable and

00:58:27.940 --> 00:58:29.820
confident to challenge and do differently because

00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:32.739
I think in time like don't yeah like as an ECT

00:58:32.739 --> 00:58:35.400
teacher I was not I didn't know what what was

00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.460
right or wrong or even what my opinion was I

00:58:37.460 --> 00:58:39.380
was basically being dragged through my first

00:58:39.380 --> 00:58:40.960
few years by my teaching assistants honestly

00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:44.570
yeah exactly by the legs so don't yeah there's

00:58:44.570 --> 00:58:48.150
no judgment at all but after 15 years you get

00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:51.050
to have quite strong opinions on what feels good

00:58:51.050 --> 00:58:55.349
and what is right and you can challenge but but

00:58:55.349 --> 00:58:57.849
also equally my teachers are speaking about earlier

00:58:57.849 --> 00:59:01.110
she's been in the job a year she's just really

00:59:01.110 --> 00:59:02.650
passionate about speech and language doing her

00:59:02.650 --> 00:59:05.550
own research you know um on through social media

00:59:05.550 --> 00:59:08.789
and online herself and she's questioning like

00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:12.860
let's question i want to build a world that people

00:59:12.860 --> 00:59:16.539
aren't scared to whistleblow or get it wrong

00:59:16.539 --> 00:59:19.380
or question or think outside the box or problem

00:59:19.380 --> 00:59:22.619
solve because you have to with you have to especially

00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:24.659
with the children that we're working with because

00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:28.539
they don't follow the rules they don't they don't

00:59:28.539 --> 00:59:32.920
follow the linear typical stuff so why should

00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:36.500
we really yeah absolutely i think like that sums

00:59:36.500 --> 00:59:38.519
it up doesn't it that actually whatever approach

00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:40.019
with you thinking about regulation communication

00:59:40.019 --> 00:59:43.280
education and they all intertwine they're not

00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:46.800
sun as silos but um it needs to be meaningful

00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:50.440
and it needs to be as individualized as it can

00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:55.280
be um as flexible you know like not in that space

00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:56.880
have been like this is what we do and this is

00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:00.760
how we do it um and yeah i think that is going

01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:03.280
to take time and that i sit with a lot of frustration

01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:05.400
about that because i feel like why can't people

01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.480
just see this and do this like what is the barrier

01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:14.119
don't be afraid to leave a job There's only so

01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:17.920
much change that you can make. Don't feel like

01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:20.539
you're letting the children down because you've

01:00:20.539 --> 01:00:22.300
got all these barriers around you that you're

01:00:22.300 --> 01:00:24.340
not able to make the change that you want to

01:00:24.340 --> 01:00:27.559
make. You can leave. It's okay. Because actually

01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:30.699
there are so many children and young people out

01:00:30.699 --> 01:00:33.159
there that also need you. And I think that's

01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:36.800
okay. And I really struggled with leaving my

01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:39.099
last job. I really felt like I'd let the kids

01:00:39.099 --> 01:00:43.340
down. But now I've learned. I never did. You

01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:45.159
know, I did as best I could within the parameters

01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:48.039
that I was allowed. And now I've got an amazing

01:00:48.039 --> 01:00:52.159
class as well. And, yeah, there's so much else

01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:55.039
I could do there. So, yeah, don't worry about

01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:59.739
that. And I think, ultimately, you can't do a

01:00:59.739 --> 01:01:02.800
good job if you are burnt out from banging your

01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:05.940
head against a brick wall. And, you know, if

01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:08.960
the system around you is not enabling. you and

01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:10.780
that's impacting your well -being then you are

01:01:10.780 --> 01:01:13.260
going to show up as the best education professional

01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:17.619
you know therapist ta senko teacher whichever

01:01:17.619 --> 01:01:20.179
part of that professional you know that you that

01:01:20.179 --> 01:01:23.559
you fall into you know it goes back to what we

01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:25.199
were talking about that actually like thinking

01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:28.619
about the well -being of the education profession

01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:32.139
you know and i mean that across the whole all

01:01:32.139 --> 01:01:36.780
the roles is is so important because if we don't

01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:39.320
get that right then the kids get inconsistency

01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:42.039
they have staff off they have like turnover you

01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:44.099
know and all those things that then does hinder

01:01:44.099 --> 01:01:46.639
progress because you're constantly you know I

01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:49.380
see as a therapist the kids who've got already

01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:52.539
secure who are well supported who have good well

01:01:52.539 --> 01:01:54.699
-being they make loads of progress the kids who

01:01:54.699 --> 01:01:56.960
are in classrooms and settings where that isn't

01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:59.320
the case you're constantly going in as a therapist

01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:01.440
but oh here's another TA that I now need to talk

01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:05.190
about yeah all the time because you're just trying

01:02:05.190 --> 01:02:06.949
to get through the day you're not going to be

01:02:06.949 --> 01:02:09.969
able to add in all these wonderful extra things

01:02:09.969 --> 01:02:13.630
no no these wonderful yeah there's just today

01:02:13.630 --> 01:02:15.429
i was saying you know if i come along as a happy

01:02:15.429 --> 01:02:17.690
speech therapist like try this strategy they're

01:02:17.690 --> 01:02:19.050
going to want to punch me in the face they're

01:02:19.050 --> 01:02:21.130
not going to be like yes please get your gloves

01:02:21.130 --> 01:02:23.349
on we've got a pad that needs changing room in

01:02:23.349 --> 01:02:26.590
you go yeah absolutely and i wouldn't i would

01:02:26.590 --> 01:02:31.349
absolutely wholeheartedly i love it Well, I think

01:02:31.349 --> 01:02:33.269
it's time to finish, but oh my goodness, I could

01:02:33.269 --> 01:02:36.409
chat to you for ages. I feel so offended. With

01:02:36.409 --> 01:02:38.989
all of these podcasts, I kind of use it as a

01:02:38.989 --> 01:02:42.769
CPD for myself, kind of like my own progression

01:02:42.769 --> 01:02:44.789
talking to all these experts. And I'm definitely

01:02:44.789 --> 01:02:48.449
going to sit with Believe Them, not only for

01:02:48.449 --> 01:02:50.969
the kids in my class, but also the teaching assistants,

01:02:51.530 --> 01:02:57.010
everybody. And I hope that filters up and down.

01:02:57.849 --> 01:03:00.880
Believe Them. You know, if someone says they

01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:03.199
need something or someone's showing you that

01:03:03.199 --> 01:03:06.260
they need or want something, it's probably because

01:03:06.260 --> 01:03:09.500
they do need it. Absolutely. So I'm going to

01:03:09.500 --> 01:03:11.739
take that into this week. So thank you for that

01:03:11.739 --> 01:03:15.159
wisdom. Where can everybody find you? Because

01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:17.940
I know they're going to want to follow you on

01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:21.380
all your things. Yeah, I have a Facebook page

01:03:21.380 --> 01:03:24.480
and Instagram and I do have TikTok. I don't use

01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.550
that so much, though. It feels a bit scary. At

01:03:26.550 --> 01:03:29.170
Ruth, maybe underscore Jones underscore SLT.

01:03:29.230 --> 01:03:33.170
I think that's Instagram. Yeah. I'll leave it

01:03:33.170 --> 01:03:35.750
in the description below. I'll leave it in the

01:03:35.750 --> 01:03:38.510
description. You'll find that. Yeah, you will.

01:03:38.730 --> 01:03:41.150
And I love to connect with people and chat about

01:03:41.150 --> 01:03:43.150
all these kinds of things. So yeah, please do

01:03:43.150 --> 01:03:45.449
reach out because it's just nice to have conversations

01:03:45.449 --> 01:03:48.030
with people and, you know, critical dialogue,

01:03:48.170 --> 01:03:50.489
equally like -minded friends. Absolutely. And

01:03:50.489 --> 01:03:53.739
no question is a bad question. um there's no

01:03:53.739 --> 01:03:55.739
judgment if you use different words whatever

01:03:55.739 --> 01:03:59.539
we'll we'll take it all i love i love actually

01:03:59.539 --> 01:04:02.719
having um questions from people that use the

01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:05.820
kind of outdated language whatever because they're

01:04:05.820 --> 01:04:07.639
still doing the right thing i've come up on their

01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:09.920
algorithm for a reason i'm pleased you're here

01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:12.380
like let's work together so yeah no bad question

01:04:12.380 --> 01:04:14.679
is a bad question thank you so much ruth for

01:04:14.679 --> 01:04:16.820
being here thank you yeah and i hope you have

01:04:16.820 --> 01:04:22.449
a really good week yes and you thank you Thank

01:04:22.449 --> 01:04:22.530
you.