WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education

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teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything

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communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson

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ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged

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4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in

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the field answering your questions and sharing

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our knowledge and experience working alongside

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our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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Hello everybody and welcome back to the podcast.

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Today I am joined by Chloe who is an SEN teacher

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of secondary school children and I first started

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following her maybe a year ago now and we're

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just so aligned and every post that she says

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about I'm like yeah I either do that or I need

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to start doing that so I've been kind of nagging

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her to get onto the podcast. I'm really pleased

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she's finally joined me. Hello Chloe! Welcome.

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I have been kind of nagging you, haven't I? Sorry

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about that. I've not been in this world for very

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long. Everything is so, like, new and scary.

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When you said about the podcast, I was like,

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no, no, that's really scary. But I'm glad that

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I just went for it. Yeah, you got to, right?

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When did you start your account? Literally this

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time last year, January last year. So, yeah,

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and I feel like I'm fangirling a little bit.

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me and my tm like send each other your tiktoks

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all the time and be like so cute i should do

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this and then she convinced me to start my own

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so literally yeah january last year definitely

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yeah i started sensory i did our sensory kids

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before that i only started sensory class in the

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december okay so I only did like a month before

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you I think I was I followed you almost straight

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away then because it feels like I've been following

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you for a really long time and we're just so

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reliant everything you were sharing yeah it just

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felt like finally someone that actually gets

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it like I found it really confirming yes yeah

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yeah it was like share like people people think

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the same as I do Yeah, I'm not on my own. I'm

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part of a mainstream school. So it can be incredibly

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isolating, like doing this stuff and like coming

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in with your bucket every Monday. And all the

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other teachers, like just thinking I'm absolutely

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mad. And it was really nice to think, no, I'm

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doing this right. And actually, you've got some

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most incredible attention autism ideas. I mean,

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God, that's one reason to follow you alone, right?

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So was it your teacher assistants that brought

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you into the social media space then? Yeah, so

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we obviously, like, followed loads of different

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accounts for ages. And honestly, like, social

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media is so good for ideas and new practices.

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And you haven't got to read a million research.

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Get it in a 10 -second video. So we were always

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sending each other videos and stuff. And she

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was like, do this. Like, you should set up an

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account. Like, more attention to autism, we would

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do it. Because I was learning on the go. And

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it just blew from all these ideas. We did the

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most beautiful, she nagged me for months. Come

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on, you've got to do it. I was like, I'm just

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going to go for it. So we did it. And yeah, I'm

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so glad we did it. It's going so well, right?

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Well, yeah. You're in. Daniel, you're on amazing.

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But yeah, I'm enjoying it. And it's just nice.

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It's a lovely. It's a lovely community as well,

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isn't it? Like all of us are so. supportive and

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understanding and there's a really nice little

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group of us now that kind of like hold each other

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I just love it I'm sure other social media groups

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aren't like that it just feels really warm and

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fuzzy doesn't it and I think like where else

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would I have the opportunity to speak to so many

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other professionals so many people that are in

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the same situation as me or similar but like

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we live so far apart we would never yeah without

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this and also even if we didn't live close apart

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it's so hard to get access to occupational therapists

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now speech and language therapists physios like

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it's so hard to get that face -to -face interaction

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just because they're incredibly overworked you

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know they've got such large caseloads even if

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they do come into class you barely get five minutes

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with them because they're with the kids and then

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you know they're off you know and you're doing

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your thing so yeah to have access to them in

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your pocket at all times just like a question

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just feels so great doesn't it Yeah, I have learned

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so much from social media. I will gladly wear

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a crown of TikTok teacher. Absolutely. Do you

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ever do this? I always do it in a staff meeting.

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I go to start a sentence with, on TikTok, I saw

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this video that I kind of hid. I'm like, I just

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saw this. I did this research. I'm like, oh,

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yeah, I read this really interesting article.

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Yeah. It was, you know, really long research

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paper. It was a TikTok video. Absolutely. And

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they're all looking at me like, we know it's

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TikTok. So funny. Do you want to tell me a little

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bit about your class then? Because it maybe sounds

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a little bit like my old class, actually. So

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yeah, tell me a little. Tell me a little bit.

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Yeah, I think so. So I have the most gorgeous

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class. I will be biased. They are the best in

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the school. I love them so much. So I've got

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nine students currently with PMLD, so profound

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multiple learning difficulties. I've got a broad

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range. So I've got a kind of really free group,

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all the attention to autism, intensive interaction,

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and all of that beautiful stuff. And then I've

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got another couple that love that as well. But

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then we're also trying to teach and things with

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them as well. We need more. So, yeah, they're

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gorgeous. We've got nine children, six adults,

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sometimes seven if we're looking. And yeah, very

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much autism, intense intervention, child led

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as much as we can. Yeah. And lots of physio and

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things as well. Do you have lots of? Yeah. It

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takes a lot of time. I find I've got in my current

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class, I've I kind of split the class a little

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bit. I've got 10 total and I have four children

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in the PMLD kind of group, if you will. And yet

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lots of what takes most of their time in the

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day is care needs and physio and meeting those

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kind of given targets that aren't even our stuff,

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you know, everything else. yeah so the attention

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autism and the intensive interaction and the

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sensory massage story type stuff when you get

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it in there wherever you get it in just feels

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really lovely doesn't it because it's just so

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fun and it and why shouldn't these kids have

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those those activities as well as the you know

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or if you can combine them you know if you could

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be in your physio chair and be doing attention

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autism even better kind of doing it is you're

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trying to fit everything in and overlapping things

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absolutely yes so we have quite a few children

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that need physios do so it's kind of working

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around them and I find it we're so flexible like

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we have a timetable we have you know we're in

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secondary school we have all these you have to

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do art you have to do cooking with us you have

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to do English but if I can make a cooking lesson

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an intensive in autism or if I can make an art

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lesson an intensive interactive I will do it.

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Yeah, and that's the great thing about attention

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autism, right? You literally can. Yes, absolutely.

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I've spoke to so many people on social media

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and at my school that thought it was a standalone

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thing and it was just about attention and it

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was just for autistic people. I think the name

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doesn't really lend itself, does it? No, it doesn't

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at all. It needs to be renamed. I think so. Yeah,

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because it's for everybody. Everybody loves it.

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Everybody can benefit from it. We... We do it

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at the start of the year when we're just doing

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stage one, the box. It's a standalone thing.

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It's minutes. It's just a thing that you do.

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But as soon as we get on stage two, that is our

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lesson. It's our English lesson. It's our maths

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lesson. It's any lesson I can weave it into.

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Because I think it's just the best way we learn.

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Yeah. They pick up so much more from it. And

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I've talked to a lot of staff at my school about

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it. You can do... anything you can teach have

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you tried the curiosity program with yours i

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haven't but i really really want to you know

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they're like in that intensive interaction and

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bucket and the stage two that very visual stuff

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it is all that the only thing the only difference

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i've done for my pmld learners is i mean the

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idea is that the on paper idea is that they come

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into the tough tray and they kind of explore

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the things as well whereas my learners aren't

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able to do that like physically aren't able to

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do that so they're in their corner chairs or

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as low as I can get their chair so they're kind

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of in it and then I come to them so I rather

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than sprinkling the balls on the tough tray and

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they come to the tough tray I just sprinkle the

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balls on them you know this kind of thing so

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I'm kind of I've changed it a little bit and

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I'm bringing it to them but they absolutely love

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it like it's an absolute joy we're seeing really

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great anticipation really great collaboration

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really great vocalizations like they find it

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really exciting so yeah I'd highly recommend

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having a look at curiosity yeah I really want

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to I've seen a lot of stuff about it and researched

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a little bit into it I think a few of my students

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like it's them they need to do it lots of the

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training I found like I had to kind of tune some

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stuff out because it was they were talking lots

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about 18 months and under and I had to kind of

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tune it out a little bit and just think How could

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this work for my learners? And what would I need

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to change? You know, it's not all appropriate.

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But lots of it is. And lots of it is exactly

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what they're needing and where they're at. So

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I just kind of handpick. So if you do do the

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training, you might have to do that as well.

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You have to tweak everything to make it bespoke

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for all children. I mean, all teachers should

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and probably do anyway, don't they? Is kind of

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take bits and magpie bits and change things.

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yeah students i think that's the luxury of special

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ed isn't it yeah massively yeah i think you have

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to take everything don't you and tweak it to

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fit yours because no student is the same no class

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is the same it's not a one -size -fits -all at

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all that we know everything we do there are no

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rules we can mix it up if we want to yeah exactly

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and i was saying uh yesterday actually that we're

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talking about communication And I was like, yeah,

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I've got 10 learners in my class. And I think

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I counted once that I've got 16 methods of communication

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in my room. When you start counting. Yeah, I'm

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sure I got to 16. I was like, oh, that's actually

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quite a lot actually. So let's talk visual. Let's

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talk communication. How are your learners communicating

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with you and how are you communicating with them?

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So we are kind of off the, and we're kind of.

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because I feel like my class now are very different

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to the I went into when I first started to do

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and I feel like there's a whole shift at the

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minute in special education about communication

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and we are moving away from pets and exchanging

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and snicking through symbols and withholding

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and all of that and actually no any communication

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is amazing and wonderful and if my child a child

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in my class points to swing or points to the

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door and I know what they're doing they're going

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they're getting they're getting it take that

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beautifully and we're really having a big kind

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of emphasis on any communication all communication

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is valid in our classroom we're trying to make

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that possible make community accessible for everybody

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so my classroom is covered in widget symbols

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we're actually in the process of changing them

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Because at the minute, I've got symbols. So on

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the fridge, I've got a snack symbol. I've got

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a side symbol on the door. I've got a toilet

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symbol on the toilet. But they're just stuck

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on. Students will go out or get an adult, take

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them over and point to it. So we're in the process

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of changing everything up. They can take them

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off. They're kind of taken away. So they haven't

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got to find an adult, take them to the thing.

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and then get it, it can just bring me. It's a

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barrier otherwise, isn't it? Yeah. Have you tried

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sound buttons? Yes. Yes. Because they could be

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good next to it as well. So they don't even have

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to leave there and they can just be. Hang it.

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Yeah. Put it here all day. Well, yeah, there

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is that. But then, hey, that's their voice. It

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doesn't mean you have to say yes. We use sound

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points as part of our story. Lovely. Isn't that?

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Quite small, some of ours, practicing the fine

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motor skills. Right, okay. Big ones are quite

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nice. Yeah, I've got ones maybe like this. They're

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a little bit easy, but yeah, it still takes some

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dexterity to do it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So

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we're kind of practicing with those. And then

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we're also creating some thick bit of cards.

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I haven't got one to show you, but thick bit

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of cards. And then we've got an object of reference.

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So, for example, a pack of mini cheddars. And

00:12:51.379 --> 00:12:54.570
then the symbol for mini cheddars. and then the

00:12:54.570 --> 00:12:57.389
sound button so they can say it. So you're kind

00:12:57.389 --> 00:12:59.970
of hitting them all. So we might still be on

00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:02.470
objects of reference. They might still be using

00:13:02.470 --> 00:13:04.710
objects of reference to communicate, but we're

00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:06.750
still seeing the symbol and we're still... Right.

00:13:06.750 --> 00:13:08.850
We're still modelling it. And at different times

00:13:08.850 --> 00:13:11.110
of the day, like our learners get really tired

00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:13.429
or if they're poorly or dysregulated or whatever,

00:13:13.690 --> 00:13:15.909
they might need a different one at different

00:13:15.909 --> 00:13:18.850
times of the day, mightn't they? Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:21.529
Yeah, that's it. So we're kind of... We're going

00:13:21.529 --> 00:13:23.750
with them all. All of our students have their

00:13:23.750 --> 00:13:27.250
own communication book. Yeah. We've got a big

00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:29.629
packet full in my classroom of all their books.

00:13:30.049 --> 00:13:32.710
And at the start of the day, they'll go out and

00:13:32.710 --> 00:13:34.750
we'll keep them with each student. They're all

00:13:34.750 --> 00:13:37.470
personalized, which is really good. Yeah. And

00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:40.230
then all staff wear one of our lovely hallboards.

00:13:42.049 --> 00:13:47.049
There we go. We bring one home. Which this seems

00:13:47.049 --> 00:13:49.529
to be quite popular on my park a lot. Right.

00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:51.539
questions about these and a lot of people saying

00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:53.440
where did you buy the folder from can I see more

00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.279
in detail and it's so easy. My wonderful TA who

00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.340
made me start TikTok she was the first person

00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:04.000
that showed me this idea and I was like yes yeah

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.360
let's just carry it around. So I know that we've

00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.179
downloaded these folders and we just made the

00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.940
core board on Widget. My class have been using

00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:14.320
them for years now and we've recently rolled

00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.799
it out a lot of the other classes in school.

00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:19.320
I can see everybody walking around with them

00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:22.559
on now. And we've added extra. So you can slot

00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.980
things in. We put a one, two, three, four on

00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:26.919
the back. And then do you just whiteboard pens?

00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.700
Whiteboard pens are my best friend. Great. So

00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:32.879
it's just always got it. I've always got a whiteboard

00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:34.720
pen on my lanyard. I've always got it attached

00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.990
to me. I don't need to be stumbling around for

00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:39.809
symbols. Because it's always that moment, isn't

00:14:39.809 --> 00:14:42.110
it? And you haven't got what you need. And then

00:14:42.110 --> 00:14:43.750
you're fumbling around for a pen and it's too

00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:46.950
late. The moment's gone. Or they become dysregulated

00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:49.110
and you can't then communicate in that way. Or

00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:50.669
the moment's gone, that learning opportunity

00:14:50.669 --> 00:14:53.970
has evaporated and you've lost your opportunity.

00:14:54.250 --> 00:14:56.330
So yeah, having everything on you is just great,

00:14:56.570 --> 00:14:59.570
isn't it? I have the perfect scenario for when

00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:02.649
this was needed. It was before we'd started that.

00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:06.620
I didn't have one. We fired rail. And one of

00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:08.620
my learners was so upset because he couldn't

00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:10.259
go on the swing that we've got on the playground.

00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.159
Because, you know, when we're on the playground,

00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:14.700
he's allowed on the swings. Right, that's so

00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:17.220
confusing. So he was down on the floor, quite

00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.919
upset. I was lying on the floor next to him.

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.200
And I had a pen and I was about three seconds

00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.559
away from drawing a now and next on my hand.

00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.059
I could not find anything else. And then my TA

00:15:29.059 --> 00:15:31.379
came running over with a scrappy little bit of

00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.440
paper that she'd just found in her pocket and

00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.669
was like, you need this. through an hour next

00:15:36.669 --> 00:15:40.169
that said um waiting or line up and then swing

00:15:40.169 --> 00:15:43.809
and it was like magic yeah and but if I'd had

00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:46.570
that on me it would have been it is like magic

00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:48.450
isn't it because you can be saying all of those

00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:51.149
things you know but I've said all that it doesn't

00:15:51.149 --> 00:15:53.929
go in does it when when they're sometimes it

00:15:53.929 --> 00:15:55.750
doesn't go in at all just regardless but especially

00:15:55.750 --> 00:15:58.289
if they're dysregulated they just can't process

00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:01.009
that you know that receptive language they can't

00:16:01.009 --> 00:16:04.789
receive it whereas a visual especially for those

00:16:04.789 --> 00:16:07.990
learners that have a longer processing time or

00:16:07.990 --> 00:16:10.610
autistic or for whatever reason, they're just

00:16:10.610 --> 00:16:14.690
more visual learners. They seem to process that

00:16:14.690 --> 00:16:17.029
a little bit easier, don't they? Also, I've also

00:16:17.029 --> 00:16:18.210
found, I don't know if you've found this, I'd

00:16:18.210 --> 00:16:20.309
be interested to know if you've found it. When

00:16:20.309 --> 00:16:22.129
I give an instruction that they don't want to

00:16:22.129 --> 00:16:24.509
do, for example, line up first, then swing, maybe,

00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:28.070
then they're angry at me. But if my whiteboard

00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:31.070
says it or my now and next board says it, they

00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:34.710
kind of don't make... I don't know. They're annoyed

00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:37.769
at me. They're not annoyed at me. I don't see

00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:40.230
that. Have you noticed that? Absolutely. Yeah,

00:16:40.269 --> 00:16:43.409
yeah. If I say, you know, come on, line up, it'll

00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:45.730
be, what? No, thank you. No, it's different to

00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:47.809
show the symbol. I think it takes that confrontation

00:16:47.809 --> 00:16:51.610
away. It does. You know, the demand at home,

00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:54.210
because as nice as you need to stay time to line

00:16:54.210 --> 00:16:57.990
up, it's still a demand. Yeah, of course. You

00:16:57.990 --> 00:17:00.649
become the deliverer of the bad news, don't you?

00:17:01.340 --> 00:17:04.220
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I've worked with lots

00:17:04.220 --> 00:17:05.559
of different people, lots of different ages,

00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:07.539
lots of different, you know, cognitive ability.

00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:12.079
And it seems to always be the same that even

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:14.599
if I write a list, you know, whatever they can

00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:18.579
understand, they read it, then it's the list

00:17:18.579 --> 00:17:20.500
that's given the instruction. It's then not me.

00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:23.160
It takes me out of the situation. So I can just

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.380
support them with it rather than being, yeah,

00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:30.089
the deliverer of whatever demand. is that we

00:17:30.089 --> 00:17:32.710
need to do i think it's just more concrete as

00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:35.130
well isn't it like true your students have got

00:17:35.130 --> 00:17:38.230
longer processing time by the you've you say

00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:41.950
and it's gone it's disappeared into yeah whereas

00:17:41.950 --> 00:17:44.950
if it's there in front of them then i forget

00:17:44.950 --> 00:17:47.289
that by the time the process is still there they

00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:50.359
know what they need to do next Yeah, and it reduces

00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:52.220
anxiety because of that concreteness as well,

00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.759
I suppose, doesn't it? It's definitely happening

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.700
because it's tangible. I can touch it. I can

00:17:55.700 --> 00:17:57.660
feel it. I can hold it. Whereas, yeah, like you

00:17:57.660 --> 00:17:59.700
say, when you say it, it just evaporates into

00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:02.900
thin air. Well, how am I to know that, you know,

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.240
it's definitely going to happen because it doesn't

00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.539
exist. I can see it, feel it. Yeah. And of course,

00:18:08.539 --> 00:18:10.799
that's going to cause anxiety. And we all know

00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.319
that anxious children are dysregulated children,

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.259
aren't they? I mean, God, we live our whole day

00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.589
trying to... support that anxiety and reduce

00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:23.190
that don't we in all things definitely I mean

00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:26.970
no go on well I was gonna say I always use the

00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:30.829
analogy of I see a flat pack furniture if I got

00:18:30.829 --> 00:18:33.450
given a whole load of parts and pieces of wood

00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:36.130
and a massive sheet of paper with just words

00:18:36.130 --> 00:18:39.009
on I'd be like no I am not even attempting that

00:18:39.009 --> 00:18:41.230
don't want to know but because it's got the little

00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:42.670
picture I don't read the words I just look at

00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:45.599
the pictures and build it easily It's true. We're

00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.660
academic. We're, you know, we can read. And yet,

00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:51.339
yeah, you're absolutely right. We look at the

00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:53.180
pictures, don't we? Because it's easier to process.

00:18:53.259 --> 00:18:56.619
It's easier to understand. It makes more sense

00:18:56.619 --> 00:18:59.039
to us. It's more concrete. And even if we can

00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:01.559
read the words, we can use the pictures to confirm

00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.519
that what we've read is actually what it means.

00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.859
And maybe they do the same as well. Yeah, definitely.

00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:11.759
Yeah. Yeah, it does make, it makes a huge difference.

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:18.279
I harp on all the time about consistency. We

00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:20.339
have got to be, if there's a particular behaviour

00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:23.619
that we're talking about with a child or something,

00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:26.960
we have got to be doing exactly the same thing,

00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.180
saying exactly the same thing in exactly the

00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:31.299
same way. It's got to be consistent, otherwise

00:19:31.299 --> 00:19:35.259
it's not going to work. I always go on about

00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:38.819
how we need to be using our visuals all the time.

00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:41.480
We need to be using our visuals all the time,

00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.809
even if they don't need it. When were you, if

00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:46.569
I could say to one of my students, don't put

00:19:46.569 --> 00:19:49.329
your coat on, and I know they're going to do

00:19:49.329 --> 00:19:52.069
it when I've said it, but then they're not using

00:19:52.069 --> 00:19:54.569
the now and next, they're not used to the rules.

00:19:54.750 --> 00:19:57.390
So then when they do need it, if it's something

00:19:57.390 --> 00:19:59.970
that they don't want to do much or they're in

00:19:59.970 --> 00:20:02.710
a state of dysregulation, it's not going to work

00:20:02.710 --> 00:20:05.589
then. Exactly that. So it works when you need

00:20:05.589 --> 00:20:09.829
it. Exactly that. it's exactly that and it is

00:20:09.829 --> 00:20:12.250
easy to forget isn't it when they just do it

00:20:12.250 --> 00:20:14.910
oh they just did it I'm like yeah that's lovely

00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:18.230
but what about tomorrow when we actually really

00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:19.829
need them to leave assembly because that you

00:20:19.829 --> 00:20:22.049
know whatever because they really need to go

00:20:22.049 --> 00:20:23.710
and or they need to get out the swimming pool

00:20:23.710 --> 00:20:26.349
and they don't you know what happens then yeah

00:20:26.349 --> 00:20:29.769
swimming pools yeah I know they can leave the

00:20:29.769 --> 00:20:31.730
group area they don't want to be there but let's

00:20:31.730 --> 00:20:34.230
use it anyway because that's a really great practice

00:20:34.230 --> 00:20:37.730
yeah that's it and they're on board now and next

00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:40.509
that people like use this use this and also if

00:20:40.509 --> 00:20:42.789
those now and next only come out when it when

00:20:42.789 --> 00:20:45.930
they don't want to do something they will then

00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:49.170
put the now and next with that negative feeling

00:20:49.170 --> 00:20:51.509
won't they they will see it as this demand this

00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:54.950
thing tells me i don't what i don't want to do

00:20:54.950 --> 00:20:57.009
and i have to do it and that's when they don't

00:20:57.009 --> 00:20:58.930
work that's when it then feels more like pecs

00:20:58.930 --> 00:21:01.009
right that's they're not child led that's not

00:21:01.009 --> 00:21:03.269
collaborative that's not supportive at all because

00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:06.130
it only comes out as control and compliance really

00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:09.309
is what it is and all these amazing tools can

00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:12.509
be used in the wrong way if they if a now and

00:21:12.509 --> 00:21:17.450
x is only brought out yeah for that sit down

00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:20.109
be quiet get on with your work you know otherwise

00:21:20.109 --> 00:21:22.670
you can't have this you know god i've seen it

00:21:22.670 --> 00:21:25.789
that's the same lanyard could be used in that

00:21:25.789 --> 00:21:28.930
sense but it can also then be used as come on

00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:32.339
dude you know we've got this like the fire drill

00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:34.759
thing perfect example you can have the swing

00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.539
you can have the swing gotta do this and then

00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:40.059
you can have this how exciting it's the same

00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:42.400
visual but my god it's a different reaction it's

00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.940
a different whole approach really isn't it yeah

00:21:45.940 --> 00:21:49.279
absolutely yeah I just yeah my team must be so

00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.339
bored of me but I have fun about it all the time

00:21:51.339 --> 00:21:53.460
we've we've got to be consistent we've got to

00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:56.089
be in them Yeah. And with that many adults as

00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:58.890
well as seven, you know, seven adults. Yeah.

00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:01.109
You've got to be, haven't you? Absolutely. And

00:22:01.109 --> 00:22:03.009
I find it hard sometimes because I'm the youngest

00:22:03.009 --> 00:22:06.089
in our team. I'm the one going, you've got to

00:22:06.089 --> 00:22:08.250
do this. Let's change this. And everyone's just

00:22:08.250 --> 00:22:10.190
like, yeah, come on then. But yeah. It's a weird

00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:14.390
dynamic, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I started

00:22:14.390 --> 00:22:17.670
at 22 in a special school and yeah, I had six

00:22:17.670 --> 00:22:19.890
teaching assistants, all middle -aged women that

00:22:19.890 --> 00:22:22.069
have brought up their own children. They'd worked

00:22:22.069 --> 00:22:24.970
there for years. And, yeah, you come in with

00:22:24.970 --> 00:22:27.089
these ideas. I mean, I also, they completely

00:22:27.089 --> 00:22:29.109
dragged me through my first two years. Like,

00:22:29.109 --> 00:22:31.410
I didn't have a clue for a start. But then you

00:22:31.410 --> 00:22:34.130
have this idea and, yeah, you just, they just

00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:36.509
trust you, don't they? It is amazing. But it

00:22:36.509 --> 00:22:39.450
is a weird dynamic in your 20s to be managing

00:22:39.450 --> 00:22:41.390
all these middle -aged women that, you know,

00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:43.670
have brought up children. It is quite odd. It's

00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:46.809
a really weird part of the role, actually, is

00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:49.589
that manager kind of role, straight into manager

00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:51.809
role, as well as everything else that it entails.

00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.319
Yeah, it really is. And I find that quite a little

00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.039
bit harder as well because I actually only work

00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.700
part -time. So I've got my own children. So I

00:23:00.700 --> 00:23:04.799
have Thursdays and Fridays. And I feel like a

00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.400
huge pressure to make sure that Thursdays and

00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.059
Fridays run as smoothly as Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays.

00:23:11.059 --> 00:23:13.319
It's so much harder when you're not there. So

00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.799
is another teacher not there for the Thursday

00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:19.000
and Friday? They kind of have their external

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:23.140
forest school. Okay. where they move around school

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:25.579
for different lessons. And I have another teacher

00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:29.460
who kind of covers the form tutor role on those

00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:33.039
as well. But that's the dynamic it is, two people

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.339
to approach it. And it's just working together

00:23:36.339 --> 00:23:38.180
to make sure it's consistent. Yeah, it's huge.

00:23:38.299 --> 00:23:40.660
Yeah, so I'm the Thursday, Friday teacher, which

00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:43.740
is why I asked. Yeah. And yeah, it is really

00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.480
important, isn't it, to be on the same page.

00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:49.839
Yeah, something came up earlier, actually. We

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.220
do the same hello song, the same warm up, you

00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:54.119
know, all of those kind of things. Well, I thought

00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.519
we did. I think it's Chinese whispers over the

00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.559
last few months. And one of the teachers, I was

00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:01.740
doing the hello song, one of the teaching assistants

00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:05.019
says, you do a different tune than him, you know,

00:24:05.019 --> 00:24:08.019
than my colleague. I thought, do what? I thought

00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:11.019
I was doing the same. And I think it's just Chinese

00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:13.720
whisper changed over the last few months. And

00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.339
I thought, oh, I better, you know, I better get

00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:17.859
him to record it so that I could. you know tune

00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:21.180
back into it because things just slowly evolve

00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:22.980
don't they and if you're not seeing each other

00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:25.920
teach which when would you you're relying on

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.759
your team to kind of keep you accountable aren't

00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:31.140
you to keep both parties accountable it's quite

00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.839
important actually it really is yeah and I am

00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:41.440
so impulsive and reflective that I will just

00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:43.180
like in the moment be like oh well that didn't

00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:44.859
work let's try it this way or let's do this or

00:24:45.289 --> 00:24:47.630
somebody's description let's mix it up and i'm

00:24:47.630 --> 00:24:50.730
constantly like change which is the job isn't

00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:54.589
it so then sometimes it's hard to keep that consistency

00:24:54.589 --> 00:24:57.910
when i've changed it and then i expect so what

00:24:57.910 --> 00:24:59.910
i've changed well in the moment it doesn't feel

00:24:59.910 --> 00:25:02.630
like a big change does it because of course that

00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:04.130
didn't work so let's just shift this it could

00:25:04.130 --> 00:25:06.170
be lots of little things couldn't it but when

00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:08.410
you're writing your email on the wednesday saying

00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:10.390
everything that's happened and getting ready

00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:12.210
for thursday think oh god that was actually quite

00:25:12.210 --> 00:25:15.410
a lot that we just did there every single child

00:25:15.410 --> 00:25:17.089
has got something to work on you know that's

00:25:17.089 --> 00:25:19.950
quite a lot when you see it all in one big massive

00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:24.190
email list in the moment it just feels like little

00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:26.890
yeah little things that you've just made a new

00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:29.650
symbol or you've just you know shifted how you're

00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:31.470
gonna say something it just seems like little

00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:34.069
changes but yeah yeah it definitely does it like

00:25:34.069 --> 00:25:37.460
a massive list on the day that you've got to

00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:40.440
send on a Friday ready for Monday. That's quite

00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.259
a lot that happened, actually. I was wondering

00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:44.420
about your attention autism as well. I get lots

00:25:44.420 --> 00:25:46.619
of questions about attention autism. And as you've

00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:49.839
got such great sessions, and it was what first

00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.039
drew me to your account, actually. What are your

00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.119
go -to, oh my God, I've not got an idea, what

00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:01.900
are we going to do, grabbable things? Okay, I

00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:04.539
love this because there are so many that are

00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:08.220
so adaptable to whatever you're doing. Probably

00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:11.640
my favourite pull out of your back pocket is

00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:16.000
flower shape. Okay. Because you can pretty much

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.740
always find a bag of flower, some icing sugar,

00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:22.099
some corn flour, depending on what you use. Wonderful,

00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:24.660
looks beautiful, but will tie -dye your street.

00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:28.380
Great, good to know. And my floor is now pink.

00:26:29.049 --> 00:26:30.569
But it's lovely. It's a lovely shade of pink.

00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:34.630
But then you just sieve a load of flour or powder

00:26:34.630 --> 00:26:38.210
paint into a tough tray. And just that is beautiful

00:26:38.210 --> 00:26:40.890
to watch. And it just flows. And you can shake

00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:44.630
high, shake low. And it's lovely. But then within

00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:47.170
that, once you've shook it all in and it's good,

00:26:47.349 --> 00:26:51.150
you can draw anything. Like you can draw shape.

00:26:51.250 --> 00:26:53.849
You could draw facial expressions. You could

00:26:53.849 --> 00:26:57.690
do different types of weather. We've been doing...

00:26:57.880 --> 00:26:59.880
balls so we've been drawing the animal and then

00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:02.279
pressing the sound button yeah you need to do

00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:06.339
I think life cycle uh once told the story of

00:27:06.339 --> 00:27:08.480
the hungry caterpillar while I was drawing the

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.400
flower everybody was just engrossed so visual

00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.160
isn't it it's so much better than just sitting

00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:17.200
there going and there once was a caterpillar

00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.640
yes it's a really nice way to do it and yeah

00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:24.240
I love our show um that's so affordable as well

00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.359
isn't it so easy I've always got shaving foam,

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:33.579
flour, bicarb in my cupboard ready to go. They're

00:27:33.579 --> 00:27:34.940
the must -haves, aren't they? And laminating

00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:39.039
pouches. Definitely. And velcro. I swear we could

00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.759
be paid in velcro and laminating pouches and

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:46.200
shaving foam and we would be happy. 100%. Yeah,

00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:50.680
definitely. Is there anything else? So they're

00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:54.059
your stage twos kind of thing, aren't they? What

00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:56.240
about bucket items? What do you put in your bucket?

00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.220
I love my bucket toys. I'm doing a bit of a refresh.

00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:01.740
I've just made an order for loads of new things.

00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:06.000
So I'm so excited. Dancing Llama was one of my

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.200
favourite ones. Okay, a bit like the cactus?

00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.640
Yeah. My daughter got it for Christmas and I

00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.380
borrowed it for school. But it's basically just

00:28:14.380 --> 00:28:16.140
this llama. You press it and it wiggles and it's

00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:19.450
bomb shaped. Amazing. Something like that, like

00:28:19.450 --> 00:28:22.190
children's toys that just move. Dancing robots,

00:28:22.589 --> 00:28:26.829
dancing, yeah. They're always my proud pleasers

00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:29.950
because we've got a chicken that lays eggs. Oh,

00:28:29.950 --> 00:28:33.049
I've seen that. Amazing. I've seen that. It makes

00:28:33.049 --> 00:28:35.329
a really stupid noise when it does it as well,

00:28:35.329 --> 00:28:37.589
doesn't it? It's so funny. I used to have that

00:28:37.589 --> 00:28:38.869
in my older room. I wonder where that's gone.

00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:42.069
Yeah, it's brilliant. But then, like, it also

00:28:42.069 --> 00:28:45.839
doesn't have to be big, expensive toys. blow

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.359
up a balloon and let it go yeah that's a fun

00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:53.160
one as the dancing llama um party poppers party

00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:56.359
blowers like the long ones so yeah it doesn't

00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:58.119
have to be anything do you know what i've recently

00:28:58.119 --> 00:28:59.740
discovered actually i've just remembered i've

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:03.420
got it called silly string oh that's hilarious

00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:07.220
that's so fun they still do that where do you

00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:09.779
get that from no i don't know it appeared in

00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:15.259
my box I reckon. Amazon. Yeah. I quite like the

00:29:15.259 --> 00:29:17.220
party aisle in Tesco. You know, like the little

00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:18.940
things you get in your pocket. Love it. Party

00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:23.319
poppers. Balloons. Paper plates. Like, what are

00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:24.920
they? Like the clacker things with the balls.

00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:27.160
And they're also cheap and little, aren't they?

00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.480
They're perfect for the bucket. I just took them

00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:34.599
in. Weekly shop is dangerous, isn't it? There's

00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:36.779
always a few items in there that just kind of

00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:42.700
sneak in. They'll love that. And how about storing

00:29:42.700 --> 00:29:44.839
everything? You know, where do you keep it all?

00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:47.480
How do you organise it so that you can find everything

00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:49.000
easily? Because it's something that I've really

00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:50.940
been experimenting this year. I don't feel like

00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:54.099
I've cracked it. Yeah. So we're kind of, we're

00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:55.480
on a journey with it at the minute. We're in

00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.779
the process. So I'm quite lucky in my classroom.

00:29:57.859 --> 00:29:59.740
I've got a lot of space and I've got two very

00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:04.259
long cupboards. So one of my cupboards is like

00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:06.599
all of my boxes. It's like curriculum resource,

00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.150
everything else. Yeah. process of converting

00:30:10.150 --> 00:30:13.569
the other cupboard into the attention autism

00:30:13.569 --> 00:30:16.950
cupboard and because we've recently rolled out

00:30:16.950 --> 00:30:19.809
autism more throughout the school so the vision

00:30:19.809 --> 00:30:23.529
is that people can come into my room my cupboard

00:30:23.529 --> 00:30:26.849
and I would like them to see stage one stage

00:30:26.849 --> 00:30:30.109
three stage four and all of the resources they

00:30:30.109 --> 00:30:32.250
need are there so we'll kind of have loads of

00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:35.170
baskets with all the exciting toys all the stage

00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:39.829
And then we'll have Rose with, you know, your

00:30:39.829 --> 00:30:42.609
black barb, your sugar. Yeah. It's going to be

00:30:42.609 --> 00:30:44.990
like a roll in order. So it's always stocked

00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:48.450
up. And then obviously all the things that you

00:30:48.450 --> 00:30:50.230
need for the stage. Yeah, great. All ready to

00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:53.230
go. In a pack. Sign it out. Out you go. Put it

00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:56.589
back in. It will make for such better sessions,

00:30:56.670 --> 00:30:58.710
won't it? Because then the time and energy can

00:30:58.710 --> 00:31:00.529
be spent not in putting it all together. Because

00:31:00.529 --> 00:31:02.549
it does take a lot of time. But in the delivery,

00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:05.250
can't it? It can be so much more thought out.

00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.000
So often I think I do a stage three and I've

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.519
done it and think, you know what, it would have

00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:11.700
been so much better if I'd had symbols or it

00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:13.359
would have been so much better if I had this.

00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:15.140
And if it's all in the pack, it's all ready to

00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:17.579
go, isn't it? And you'll always have those things.

00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:20.480
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I just want to make it

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.180
as accessible as I can for everybody because

00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:28.319
it can be like a lot of work to get set up, you

00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.480
know, you've got to do the activities and you've

00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.299
got to gather all the resources that you need

00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:38.019
and tidy it all the way up. it can be quite daunting

00:31:38.019 --> 00:31:40.059
to even think of the ideas as well whereas if

00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:42.500
you've got a cupboard full of them you can think

00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:44.240
oh yeah i forgot that one i haven't done that

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.059
in ages let's just do that whereas otherwise

00:31:46.059 --> 00:31:49.640
you kind of go to the same things don't you and

00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.819
it can become a bit mundane only not meaning

00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:55.940
to be just for lack of you know creative thinking

00:31:55.940 --> 00:31:58.900
and energy really yes absolutely inspiration

00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:01.920
yeah yeah definitely i find myself quite often

00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:05.700
Even me in this, oh, we saw this toy like a couple

00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:08.220
of days ago. That's boring. Let's find another

00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:11.599
one. It's keeping it fresh, isn't it? Yeah, and

00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:13.920
it's so easy. If I buy a toy, then my students

00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:16.160
are going to be as well. Exactly, and because

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:17.779
I'm only teaching, and I don't know if you find

00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:19.940
this as well, on a Thursday and Friday, I don't

00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:21.619
definitely know what they've done on a Monday,

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.400
Tuesday, Wednesday. I know what they've got in

00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.279
the bucket on a Thursday, so I know what they

00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:27.000
did on Wednesday, so I know that it could be

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.130
different from that. But I don't know what they

00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:31.609
did on a Monday and Tuesday. Maybe I should do,

00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:34.549
but you can't write everything, can you? So even

00:32:34.549 --> 00:32:36.529
if I choose the same, I suppose I'd do it in

00:32:36.529 --> 00:32:37.769
a bit of a different way just because I'm a different

00:32:37.769 --> 00:32:40.309
person. But yeah, maybe it would be good to have

00:32:40.309 --> 00:32:43.529
some kind of like system of in and out, like

00:32:43.529 --> 00:32:46.490
an in and out tray. We know what's already been

00:32:46.490 --> 00:32:49.109
and we can kind of rotate that way. A bit like

00:32:49.109 --> 00:32:50.789
when you refresh your wardrobe and you put your

00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:52.910
hanger the other way when you know that you haven't

00:32:52.910 --> 00:32:54.730
used it or you have used it. Maybe we need a

00:32:54.730 --> 00:32:57.170
system like that. I like that idea. That's a

00:32:57.170 --> 00:32:59.960
really good idea. Yeah, I had a cupboard refresh

00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:02.579
this year. We haven't got a whole attention autism

00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:04.539
cupboard, although it is taking over. I've got

00:33:04.539 --> 00:33:06.299
two shelves out of four now of attention autism

00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:08.339
rather than just the one. But we kind of did

00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:11.299
all that, put all the Gretmull's trays in and

00:33:11.299 --> 00:33:14.119
we've got one per lesson. And yeah, two of the

00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.480
whole trays is attention autism. And that has

00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:18.240
definitely helped keep me accountable. It's definitely

00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:22.160
helped keep me planned and ready and organized

00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.039
for the session, which has definitely helped

00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:27.480
deliver it far higher quality than. When you're

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:28.960
just chasing your tail, just grabbing something

00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.240
five minutes before, it's never as good. It's

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:34.759
always fine. The kids always love it. It doesn't

00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.319
matter too much, but it's so much better and

00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.220
more effective if it's planned, isn't it? Absolutely.

00:33:40.339 --> 00:33:43.839
I am the least organised teacher you've ever

00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:49.519
met. I run around, grab what I can. I'm so unorganised

00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.859
and I try so hard, but it's just not me. I'm

00:33:51.859 --> 00:33:54.720
just not. Do you find sometimes... They go surprisingly

00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.720
well. When you just make up a song on the fly,

00:33:56.779 --> 00:33:58.339
like you're literally already running the session

00:33:58.339 --> 00:33:59.599
and you think, I haven't got a song for this.

00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.500
You just kind of run it on the fly. Really? What

00:34:02.500 --> 00:34:07.440
else? Pretty much every single stage I ever do

00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.639
was looked out of my head 0 .5 seconds before

00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.760
I started. Same, same. It's the familiar tune

00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.619
and I'm just like, just make it. It's always

00:34:17.619 --> 00:34:18.960
Will's on the bus, though. I need to get a different

00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.599
tune. It's always Will's on the bus. Mine is

00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.300
always, this is the one. yeah that's a good one

00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:26.739
that's a good one yeah that is a good one for

00:34:26.739 --> 00:34:28.920
attention autism especially I feel like that's

00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.480
a good go -to because you can kind of put any

00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.559
words onto this is the way so then what are your

00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:36.199
other lessons looking like then so you said you

00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.760
do sensory stories so you do attention autism

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.539
and intensive interaction what what do you call

00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:45.719
your other lessons or or you know do you call

00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:48.039
them what they are do you call them you know

00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.119
sensory method or do you call them or do you

00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:51.900
have english math science you know what does

00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:56.360
your curriculum look like feel like and so we

00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:58.659
we've kind of got a bit of a hybrid you know

00:34:58.659 --> 00:35:01.320
we we're a secondary school every class will

00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.820
get a timetable and so my timetable for my class

00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:08.960
looks like english math rebound cooking art and

00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.900
it's it's just the subject okay and we also have

00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:18.010
slots for five hours a week so quite a lot for

00:35:18.010 --> 00:35:21.349
communicating but that's kind of my baseline

00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.369
and then I've got quite freedom of what that

00:35:24.369 --> 00:35:27.190
even looks like yeah okay communication lesson

00:35:27.190 --> 00:35:30.489
one week will be an intensive interaction lesson

00:35:30.489 --> 00:35:34.150
it will be child -led play attention to them

00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:37.590
it's it's really flexible within that yeah then

00:35:37.590 --> 00:35:40.550
our English lessons will generally either a story

00:35:40.550 --> 00:35:44.659
or a story hold through and attention autism

00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:48.679
which yes okay yeah it's always we're always

00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:50.639
linked on a story we've got a few texts every

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:55.820
after yeah and maths is always attention autism

00:35:55.820 --> 00:35:58.960
because i think it just self really well yeah

00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.579
i don't think many people do that i think many

00:36:01.579 --> 00:36:03.639
people think communication english but it really

00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:06.980
really does you're right bigger smaller on off

00:36:06.980 --> 00:36:10.760
inside it works so well for math it works so

00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.239
well so English and maths, we will do an autism

00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.579
or the sensory story as like a whole class. I'm

00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:19.159
thinking about like make sure you like input,

00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.500
that's your class input. Yeah. Then we split

00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:25.880
off and we workstations or tables and that's

00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:28.380
where they'll do the more kind, some of them

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:32.519
are more kind of teach style training and some

00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:34.579
of them will be that more focused like one -to

00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:39.119
-one work, working on specific targets. So it's

00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:41.820
kind of, you've got the input. And then they

00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:45.579
do all work. But then we'll have art lessons.

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.380
Art lessons, it depends on what the kind of topic

00:36:48.380 --> 00:36:51.099
is for the half term. Generally, we're exploring

00:36:51.099 --> 00:36:54.800
text. We're exploring colours. Okay. I really

00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.559
try and get my art lessons very kind of free

00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.059
-flowing, child -led. Yeah. So they're exploring.

00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:05.239
They're initiating the creativity rather than

00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.199
it being, you're going to copy this or you're

00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.179
going to copy that. over product absolutely I

00:37:10.179 --> 00:37:12.860
always say to my staff at the start of specifically

00:37:12.860 --> 00:37:17.800
art lessons and cooking lessons they're the ones

00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:20.820
aren't they they're on the ceiling I don't care

00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.940
if they've made a beautiful skewer with all the

00:37:22.940 --> 00:37:26.239
fruit lined up I don't care if they've squinted

00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.739
it in their hands that's great yeah I just don't

00:37:29.739 --> 00:37:32.260
care about the output and what would at the end

00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:36.400
it's the process isn't it art lessons will I'll

00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:40.010
fill up a toast tray with farmyard theme or whatever

00:37:40.010 --> 00:37:43.630
it is with all these lovely textures and i'll

00:37:43.630 --> 00:37:47.309
play it staff will play with it and if they want

00:37:47.309 --> 00:37:49.949
to come over and join in with it amazing and

00:37:49.949 --> 00:37:53.090
then they're exploring that and some of them

00:37:53.090 --> 00:37:56.429
might take a little more a little bit more coaxing

00:37:56.429 --> 00:37:58.969
and some of our students that really don't like

00:37:58.969 --> 00:38:01.750
the pressure of everybody's able everybody around

00:38:01.750 --> 00:38:03.690
the tuesday will put it into a little trade for

00:38:03.690 --> 00:38:07.280
them and take it to them but it's very much on

00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.679
their terms um because I think just giving their

00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:12.579
learning yeah especially with something well

00:38:12.579 --> 00:38:14.519
any lesson of course but anything like art you're

00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.019
not going to get your best work if you're feeling

00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:17.840
pressured to do it I mean I certainly wouldn't

00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:20.199
if I went into a classroom and someone said right

00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.260
you're going to do this art and this way I'll

00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:23.980
just be like I feel so much pressure because

00:38:23.980 --> 00:38:26.099
I can't do that whereas if someone said oh here's

00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:28.179
all the stuff choose what you want just have

00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:30.559
a little explore this is what I'm doing you could

00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.690
do it with me if you want yeah they're like That

00:38:33.690 --> 00:38:35.949
would be so much more enjoyable. It's perilous,

00:38:35.949 --> 00:38:39.110
isn't it? Perilous learning. Absolutely, yeah,

00:38:39.269 --> 00:38:43.809
that's it. I once invited my mother -in -law.

00:38:43.909 --> 00:38:45.809
She was staying up with us for a couple of weeks

00:38:45.809 --> 00:38:47.110
and she used to be an occupational therapist

00:38:47.110 --> 00:38:49.730
so she's really intrigued by what I do. And I

00:38:49.730 --> 00:38:51.829
invited her into my classroom. She just really

00:38:51.829 --> 00:38:55.050
wanted to see my class and we were doing cooking

00:38:55.050 --> 00:38:57.960
and she came out saying... that wasn't cooking,

00:38:58.139 --> 00:39:00.400
that was sensory play. And I was like, yeah,

00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.679
exactly. She was going in expecting to do some

00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:05.440
proper baking and stuff. It was very much like

00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:09.860
squishing and rolling and smooshing and tasting.

00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.119
Yeah, that's what it sort of is. But it did make

00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.539
me laugh. That wasn't cooking, that was sensory

00:39:17.539 --> 00:39:21.480
play. Most of my chicken leggings are sensory

00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.599
play. You know, we do, I love how we do our cooking

00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.619
at the minute because we kind of do the whole

00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:30.360
process. So on a Tuesday in our independence

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.780
lesson, we write a shopping list. So we choose

00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:36.559
the symbols. If it's something like, say, for

00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.219
example, fruit kebabs, the students will choose

00:39:39.219 --> 00:39:41.380
the fruit that they want and they'll get the

00:39:41.380 --> 00:39:44.179
symbol and put it on their shopping list. or

00:39:44.179 --> 00:39:46.800
if it's maybe further on in the year we'll look

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.639
at a recipe and we'll pull out the symbols for

00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:51.579
the ingredients we need and put them on our shopping

00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:54.179
list so that on the Wednesday morning we go on

00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:56.760
the bus we go into the shop we buy the things

00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.599
off the list and check them off And then on a

00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.320
Wednesday afternoon, we come back and then we

00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.719
cook what it is that we've done. It's so much

00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:05.980
more meaningful, doesn't it? And then wash up

00:40:05.980 --> 00:40:08.199
at the end. It makes it so much more meaningful.

00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:10.360
It's real life, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. And

00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:13.119
these are teenagers. We want them to be as independent

00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.219
as possible. And even if they have a carer all

00:40:16.219 --> 00:40:18.400
their lives or live in independent living and

00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:20.849
have that support all their lives. What if they

00:40:20.849 --> 00:40:23.010
can like write a simple recipe? What if they

00:40:23.010 --> 00:40:25.190
can go into the shop and, you know, beep through

00:40:25.190 --> 00:40:27.829
the items and hand over their card? You know,

00:40:27.869 --> 00:40:31.389
how exciting. Just going on the bus and leaving

00:40:31.389 --> 00:40:34.550
the classroom is so huge for our learners. It's

00:40:34.550 --> 00:40:36.389
such great practice. It's almost the biggest

00:40:36.389 --> 00:40:38.730
lesson that you'll teach that year, isn't it?

00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:41.250
Is going on the bus, going into a shop, managing

00:40:41.250 --> 00:40:43.909
public, managing yourself in public, coping with

00:40:43.909 --> 00:40:46.130
all those sounds and sensory experiences and

00:40:46.130 --> 00:40:48.110
coming back with something, cooking it, washing

00:40:48.110 --> 00:40:51.420
up. yeah you know it's so important isn't it

00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:54.619
so important it's the whole kind of real life

00:40:54.619 --> 00:40:58.000
experience and yeah if they can do something

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:01.219
for themselves then absolutely why shouldn't

00:41:01.219 --> 00:41:04.599
they it's so much better like since we're a primary

00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.719
school and I feel like everything all our whole

00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:11.340
base of everything is why are we doing this you

00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:14.079
know what what will it enable them to do and

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.809
if it doesn't if it like then it seems kind of

00:41:17.809 --> 00:41:20.969
pointless yeah doesn't it yeah I don't know like

00:41:20.969 --> 00:41:23.869
why do we take them swimming well it's not to

00:41:23.869 --> 00:41:25.769
teach them how to swim even though that's a great

00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:29.309
skill it's really not it's about walking to the

00:41:29.309 --> 00:41:31.510
place being safe on the road getting dressed

00:41:31.510 --> 00:41:34.250
getting changed you know being in the environment

00:41:34.250 --> 00:41:36.929
being with the public waiting for your turn it's

00:41:36.929 --> 00:41:38.909
all one of those things around that and then

00:41:38.909 --> 00:41:40.550
swimming is just a bonus we get to splash in

00:41:40.550 --> 00:41:42.210
the water and it's really fun But yeah, it's

00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:43.869
probably one of our most important and useful

00:41:43.869 --> 00:41:46.590
lessons, actually, because it's teaching them

00:41:46.590 --> 00:41:49.909
about life outside of the safety parameters of

00:41:49.909 --> 00:41:52.190
home and school. Because we are very safe, aren't

00:41:52.190 --> 00:41:55.210
we? I mean, God, the whole thing is catered to

00:41:55.210 --> 00:41:57.469
them and the world isn't. There's not widget

00:41:57.469 --> 00:41:59.929
symbols stuck on everything in the real world.

00:42:00.110 --> 00:42:03.070
There's not loving members of staff and adults

00:42:03.070 --> 00:42:05.940
that will... attend to every need and will try

00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:07.679
really hard to understand what you say and will

00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.079
accept you and love you no matter what that doesn't

00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.059
exist in the world i really hope it does one

00:42:12.059 --> 00:42:15.119
day but it doesn't and how wonderful they can

00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.039
be nurtured in these safe environments and that's

00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:20.679
equally as important but not to be too sheltered

00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.739
and to experience the real world and and to get

00:42:23.739 --> 00:42:26.260
used to how to navigate that as well when you

00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:27.800
haven't got the widget symbols when you haven't

00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:31.039
got the safety of an area that you always go

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.619
to or den that you always go to when you're dysregulated

00:42:33.619 --> 00:42:35.760
you know what happens then it's really important

00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.940
isn't it yeah a thousand percent I've got some

00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:41.420
parents that say to me you know I don't don't

00:42:41.420 --> 00:42:43.960
mind if they never learn to read I want them

00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.039
to know how to ask for help or how to get on

00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:49.280
a bus or get themselves home if they need to

00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.139
like it's those important life skills and safety

00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:55.619
skills that are so much more important than learning

00:42:55.619 --> 00:42:57.960
phonics or like obviously that's important too

00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.559
but not I don't think as important no I agree

00:43:01.420 --> 00:43:03.420
You just reminded me of an argument I had with

00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:06.760
my old deputy head, actually. She was trying

00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:10.059
to take away a PSED lesson, so a personal, social

00:43:10.059 --> 00:43:13.280
and health lesson from me and replace it with

00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.619
maths or English. And I could have done it. I

00:43:15.619 --> 00:43:16.960
would have just turned it into whatever I wanted

00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:19.780
to do. But I felt it was really important. Like,

00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.539
why are you taking away? That's probably one

00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:24.460
of the most important lessons we teach. You know,

00:43:24.500 --> 00:43:26.679
I get that in mainstream, maths and English is

00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:29.639
really important. But in special ed... PSEG is

00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.639
the most important. It's about independence and

00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:35.800
emotions and self -care and all of those things.

00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:39.320
It's so important. There's no point in them knowing

00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:42.639
how to give money and get change back if they

00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:44.800
can't actually go outside and get on a bus and

00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:48.139
buy a ticket. If they can't actually have the

00:43:48.139 --> 00:43:50.739
confidence and the social skills and the awareness

00:43:50.739 --> 00:43:53.079
and the regulation to be able to do that, what's

00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:54.639
the point of them being able to count change?

00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:58.679
Honestly, there is no point, is there? And that

00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:00.659
was my learners on that year I had. I was working

00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:04.539
with 14 to 16 year olds and they were incredible

00:44:04.539 --> 00:44:08.500
at math. Like incredible. We were doing age appropriate,

00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:11.539
year nine math papers. They were just whizzing.

00:44:11.539 --> 00:44:14.500
They could just do it. But they couldn't leave

00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:17.199
the classroom because they were so anxious. There

00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:19.320
was absolutely no way they'd be able to speak

00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.400
to a stranger and be able to communicate that

00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.119
they wanted to go somewhere. There's no way they

00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:25.619
could be able to get off at the right stop. So

00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:28.900
what's the point? Yeah. That's it. You've got

00:44:28.900 --> 00:44:31.199
to get that first, haven't you, before we...

00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:33.739
Yeah, you've got to do it progressively, haven't

00:44:33.739 --> 00:44:35.659
you, in the right order? Yeah, and that comes

00:44:35.659 --> 00:44:38.460
with time, doesn't it? Because there's new teachers.

00:44:38.739 --> 00:44:40.800
I mean, I don't know what your teaching was like.

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.320
Actually, you did mainstream, didn't you? I did

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:46.420
as well. Did you do mainstream primary? I did,

00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.599
yeah. I trained. I did the three -year primary

00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:54.960
education, which I think is wild, but there's

00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:59.190
hardly any sense. like there's probably like

00:44:59.190 --> 00:45:02.969
a token session and dyslexia like not even anything

00:45:02.969 --> 00:45:08.150
like yeah yeah it's wild um but I was so lucky

00:45:08.150 --> 00:45:10.769
that I just got I didn't ask to and because I

00:45:10.769 --> 00:45:12.550
didn't know but I was so lucky that I got put

00:45:12.550 --> 00:45:14.989
into a SEND placement for my second year placement

00:45:14.989 --> 00:45:18.489
and that's what made me want to be a SEND teacher

00:45:18.489 --> 00:45:20.909
that was just it was beautiful and I was like

00:45:20.909 --> 00:45:22.809
this is this is me this is it just felt right

00:45:22.809 --> 00:45:24.650
so how long were you in mainstream before you

00:45:24.650 --> 00:45:29.639
moved over and so Five years. Okay. However,

00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:36.019
kind of penultimate year was lockdown slash maternity

00:45:36.019 --> 00:45:40.000
leave. Okay. In school, probably four. Yeah.

00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.760
But yeah. So you've nearly been in SEM as long

00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.780
as you've been in mainstream. Yeah. Yeah, that's

00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:47.800
it. Yeah. So yeah, I started. Did you always

00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.559
know that you were going to move over? I did.

00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:54.090
You felt it? It was that like, gosh, I've just

00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:56.489
graduated. I need to get a job. And it was just

00:45:56.489 --> 00:45:59.429
like, hey, the office is coming to me. Which

00:45:59.429 --> 00:46:02.610
is good. Because you do just need that experience,

00:46:02.730 --> 00:46:05.949
don't you? Absolutely. And I loved it. And I

00:46:05.949 --> 00:46:09.070
was in, I started in year two. I taught in year

00:46:09.070 --> 00:46:10.769
five for a little bit. And then I went back to

00:46:10.769 --> 00:46:13.309
year two. And I always said, you know, I do not

00:46:13.309 --> 00:46:15.369
want to teach key stage two. I am an early year.

00:46:15.690 --> 00:46:19.190
Key stage one, the big ones, they scare me. And

00:46:19.190 --> 00:46:22.460
then I spoke to my deputy head now. she was like

00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:24.219
how would you feel about special needs secondary

00:46:24.219 --> 00:46:27.360
and I was like the word secondary scares me but

00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:29.880
like let's go for it and I had they working at

00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:32.320
that kind of year one yeah early years level

00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.519
anyway level yeah so it's kind of the best of

00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.239
both worlds really like we've got older students

00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:40.619
in our school we have different strands so we've

00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:43.679
got such a variety of needs such a difference

00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.460
we've got sixth formers sitting gtse's and that

00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.599
got complex pml sensory it's very similar to

00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.059
my old school yeah so it's a wild difference

00:46:52.059 --> 00:46:55.460
and i am like do not do not put me up in sixth

00:46:55.460 --> 00:46:58.039
form do not give me the big kids i do not want

00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:01.000
to be up there early nursery rhymes and fairytales

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.900
yeah that's all the same i don't care how big

00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:07.019
they are i don't care what age they are but i'm

00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:11.119
a singer and i do dancing and i do puppets and

00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:15.230
i do balloons And I do mark making. So when I

00:47:15.230 --> 00:47:18.050
was put in this 14 year old, you know, year nine

00:47:18.050 --> 00:47:19.849
maths thing, I thought, oh my God, I've got,

00:47:19.929 --> 00:47:22.210
you know, I only got a, just got a C at GCSE.

00:47:22.210 --> 00:47:24.670
You know, how am I going to do this? I mean,

00:47:24.730 --> 00:47:26.989
you just Google it, don't you? But I'm very much

00:47:26.989 --> 00:47:29.190
in my comfort zone now with the songs and the

00:47:29.190 --> 00:47:32.489
essentialism. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I had to

00:47:32.489 --> 00:47:36.590
cover a GCSE biology class for a period of about,

00:47:36.789 --> 00:47:40.059
it was about. five or six months I had to cover

00:47:40.059 --> 00:47:41.820
this class and I was like oh my god like I did

00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:45.599
I haven't done biology since my GCSE and so I

00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.920
had to cover it but my complex need sensory head

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.159
took over and I took them play -doh and we made

00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:56.219
models of the cells but they loved it right loved

00:47:56.219 --> 00:48:00.099
it they learned so much and I do think that a

00:48:00.099 --> 00:48:02.800
lot can be learned from that approach it's not

00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.820
just for your complex needs learners it's not

00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.579
for younger learners like If I went to a staff

00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:10.599
meeting and they got the Play -Doh out, yes,

00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.460
please. Sometimes I look around, I don't know

00:48:13.460 --> 00:48:14.820
if you do, sometimes I look around the staff

00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:17.699
training and think we all need fidgets here because

00:48:17.699 --> 00:48:20.440
this is boring and it's long and we've been sitting

00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:24.059
here far too long still and trying to concentrate.

00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:25.900
Yeah, we need to get up and move around and do

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:27.960
a bit of a break. Yeah, so you're so right. We're

00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.940
all sensory beings, aren't we? Some need it,

00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.559
obviously, and rely on it. other people to help

00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.179
them regulate more than most but we're all sensory

00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:39.440
beings and we all have that sensory baseline

00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:43.920
um I was speaking to um one adopter actually

00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:46.500
on the podcast quite early on I think the podcast

00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:47.980
came out this Sunday actually but it was a couple

00:48:47.980 --> 00:48:50.840
of months ago it's just beautiful isn't she and

00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.539
so so wise so wise and she was talking about

00:48:54.539 --> 00:48:59.280
the difference between PMLD and PMBL so it's

00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.320
profound and multiple learning difficulties which

00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:03.960
is how you describe the children in your class

00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:06.460
or profound and multiple barriers to learning

00:49:06.460 --> 00:49:09.980
and she explained the difference as cognitively

00:49:09.980 --> 00:49:13.400
they are academic learners they can understand

00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:17.900
just as we can you know they're not at that sensory

00:49:17.900 --> 00:49:21.039
level they learn at that academic level but their

00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:22.960
barrier to learning is their physical barrier

00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:26.190
maybe their body doesn't do what it what they

00:49:26.190 --> 00:49:28.289
want it to do and then and that's their barrier

00:49:28.289 --> 00:49:32.030
and often these people can look the same on the

00:49:32.030 --> 00:49:36.769
outside so it can be assumed that they're not

00:49:36.769 --> 00:49:41.449
as competent yeah and yet and yet you know they

00:49:41.449 --> 00:49:43.349
need to learn in this more academic way and not

00:49:43.349 --> 00:49:45.929
a sensory way but what she was saying was offer

00:49:45.929 --> 00:49:48.630
both because actually if we're not sure if we're

00:49:48.630 --> 00:49:51.789
not sure if they are an academic learner or a

00:49:51.789 --> 00:49:55.110
sensory learner for them both There's no harm

00:49:55.110 --> 00:49:58.489
in offering them the sensory multitude of things,

00:49:58.550 --> 00:50:00.610
you know, a multi -sensory way of exploring.

00:50:01.289 --> 00:50:04.650
And there's also no harm in using long scientific

00:50:04.650 --> 00:50:08.250
language and explaining this alongside the sensory

00:50:08.250 --> 00:50:11.510
things or using visuals to say along it. And

00:50:11.510 --> 00:50:13.969
I just thought that was really lovely. She explained

00:50:13.969 --> 00:50:17.070
it with a sensory story about the birth of a

00:50:17.070 --> 00:50:19.489
star and she was using lots of scientific language

00:50:19.489 --> 00:50:22.659
and it was all very accurate. But we were popping

00:50:22.659 --> 00:50:25.639
confetti and exploring, you know, different things

00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:26.820
and spelling different things. And I thought,

00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.579
yeah, because that's assuming confidence, isn't

00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:31.480
it? It's meeting all your learners where they're

00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:33.119
at. And it doesn't matter where they're at. I

00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:34.820
don't mind if they're a sensory learner. They

00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:37.360
make no difference to me. I would love them and

00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:39.800
teach them no matter what, you know. But I want

00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:41.659
to make sure that I'm reaching where they're

00:50:41.659 --> 00:50:43.599
at. I don't want to be patronizing, but I also

00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:45.500
don't want to be way above their heads and not

00:50:45.500 --> 00:50:49.300
meeting them and them being. bored and not feeling

00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:53.539
like they're being heard it's it's a mix isn't

00:50:53.539 --> 00:50:56.860
it and I feel like we're we're battling that

00:50:56.860 --> 00:50:59.960
as special ed teachers constantly is are we doing

00:50:59.960 --> 00:51:02.900
enough are we doing too much are we are they

00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:05.480
understanding or are we patronizing you know

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.380
it's a constant flow of that do you feel that

00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:13.190
as well 100 % like we can never fully know what

00:51:13.190 --> 00:51:15.809
they do and don't understand kind of like where

00:51:15.809 --> 00:51:19.010
they are in some cases so it's like you think

00:51:19.010 --> 00:51:21.050
you've got to assume competence assume that they

00:51:21.050 --> 00:51:25.190
can assume that they do know and if they do great

00:51:25.190 --> 00:51:28.090
and if not you've scaffolded and got there anyway

00:51:28.090 --> 00:51:30.389
so they've had all of the yeah almost offer them

00:51:30.389 --> 00:51:32.010
everything offer them all the scaffolding and

00:51:32.010 --> 00:51:35.309
if they can then great and if they can't it's

00:51:35.309 --> 00:51:37.429
also great because they've got they've got a

00:51:37.429 --> 00:51:39.849
lovely sensory experience out of it yeah and

00:51:39.849 --> 00:51:41.329
it's the same with the communication isn't it

00:51:41.329 --> 00:51:43.610
we offer all the types because they've got to

00:51:43.610 --> 00:51:45.750
tell us they've got to choose what's the best

00:51:45.750 --> 00:51:48.489
way for them so we're gonna offer them all and

00:51:48.489 --> 00:51:51.550
you would never just say oh yes they use objects

00:51:51.550 --> 00:51:54.269
of reference so we're only asking them objects

00:51:54.269 --> 00:51:57.550
of reference i don't know if you get that in

00:51:57.550 --> 00:51:59.969
your dms as well like oh we're thinking of moving

00:51:59.969 --> 00:52:02.849
on to you know talking ipads or we're thinking

00:52:02.849 --> 00:52:06.030
of moving on to symbols and we have been using

00:52:06.030 --> 00:52:09.260
photos or whatever i think oh no no just Just

00:52:09.260 --> 00:52:13.900
overlap it. Just use it is what I often say,

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.099
actually. Leave them doing what they're doing

00:52:16.099 --> 00:52:17.300
and what they already know. Don't take their

00:52:17.300 --> 00:52:19.539
voice away from them. But why don't you just

00:52:19.539 --> 00:52:22.400
try this as well as that? But yeah, it looks

00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:25.460
like it's almost spoken like a linear ladder,

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:28.460
isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, when I first started,

00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:30.760
I was really impressed from what I'd learned

00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.599
just kind of on the job of you do objects of

00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.679
reference and then it's on to symbols and then

00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.130
it's on to this and then you see it. But actually,

00:52:38.210 --> 00:52:41.030
just use it all. Offer it them all and they'll

00:52:41.030 --> 00:52:44.110
tell you what they... Yeah, and they're so spiky

00:52:44.110 --> 00:52:46.289
and all over the place and da -da -da -da -da

00:52:46.289 --> 00:52:48.809
that actually, who knows? I had a child that

00:52:48.809 --> 00:52:50.809
didn't seem like he was understanding object

00:52:50.809 --> 00:52:52.409
of reference at all and we were trying sound

00:52:52.409 --> 00:52:54.750
buttons, we were trying all sorts. And now he's

00:52:54.750 --> 00:52:56.710
writing on a whiteboard and typing out what he

00:52:56.710 --> 00:52:58.190
wants. You know, all of a sudden, it's just kind

00:52:58.190 --> 00:53:01.730
of maybe he's kind of processed it or worked

00:53:01.730 --> 00:53:03.849
out that he... Or we've worked out that he can

00:53:03.849 --> 00:53:05.289
do it. I don't know. I don't know what's happened.

00:53:05.429 --> 00:53:06.789
It just kind of... It seemed to happen overnight.

00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.460
But it's only because those options were there

00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:12.219
to him and we hadn't given that was ever a thing.

00:53:12.380 --> 00:53:14.300
They were just there. I mean, it's great that

00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:15.880
we've got 10 learners that all do different things.

00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:19.079
So they're all there. Yeah. That was an on offer

00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:21.619
to him. But that wasn't the expectation. It was

00:53:21.619 --> 00:53:24.119
just modeled. It was just we were just using

00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:25.820
it anyway. And attention autism helped for that,

00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:27.699
actually, because we were writing on the whiteboard.

00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:30.119
He was watching us every day writing on the whiteboard

00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:32.440
and he learned that it meant something and it

00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:35.500
meant something fun because often it. it came

00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:38.340
with something fun after it yeah yeah i think

00:53:38.340 --> 00:53:41.239
that's so important for us as all teachers but

00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:44.840
like we're the facilitators we can offer the

00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:47.079
resources we can offer the experiences we can

00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:49.199
offer the communication but it's up to them to

00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:52.260
take it and use it and yeah i wonder if mainstream

00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:54.519
teachers i mean maybe you could answer this because

00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:56.079
i've never been a mainstream teacher i did mainstream

00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:58.260
training but always been special ed so i can

00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.940
never answer this question but i wonder i always

00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:02.860
just feel like a facilitator and not a teacher

00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:07.059
i very very rarely Do I finish a session and

00:54:07.059 --> 00:54:09.460
think, I taught them something that day. Usually

00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:11.820
I'm just facilitating and finding out what they

00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:15.860
already know. It feels like I'm just observing,

00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:19.000
can they do this? Do they know this? Rather than

00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:21.260
today, kids, we're going to learn this. And by

00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:23.179
the end of the session, they know it. I don't

00:54:23.179 --> 00:54:28.059
know. Is that a thing to do? Yeah. So obviously

00:54:28.059 --> 00:54:29.719
every school is different. I only worked in one

00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:33.179
mainstream school. What do we want them to know

00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:35.000
by the end of the session? Like, that was the

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:36.900
goal. What are they going to learn at the end

00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:38.460
of it? What are they going to know? How can we

00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:40.940
assess it? It's very much that kind of rigid,

00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:45.539
yeah. Whereas, like you say, I'm observing the

00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:48.179
children. I'm saying, they've done this. They've

00:54:48.179 --> 00:54:50.400
done this independently. Oh, I didn't know they

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.860
could do that. How did I pull those blocks? It's

00:54:53.860 --> 00:54:56.739
very more, it's more child -led, isn't it? Yeah,

00:54:57.059 --> 00:54:59.019
I think maybe that's what it is. Yeah, my aim

00:54:59.019 --> 00:55:00.699
definitely isn't I'm going to use these resources

00:55:00.699 --> 00:55:03.260
to teach them this. It's more I'm going to use

00:55:03.260 --> 00:55:05.219
these resources because they're going to be motivated

00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:07.579
by it and they might show me that they can do

00:55:07.579 --> 00:55:10.840
it. It's more that. So you've got an idea of

00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:14.320
this is what I might be able to, yeah. I'd like

00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:17.320
to see, but it's up to them. I know they can't

00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:19.119
do it in cubes, but can they do it with number

00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.400
blocks? Like maybe they can. you give them the

00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.239
resources to show that don't you yeah it is very

00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:27.539
different and it must be really difficult i mean

00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:29.280
it was a long time ago now i can't really remember

00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.840
it must be really difficult for teachers that

00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:32.840
are coming across or starting afresh because

00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.760
it's such a different way of teaching we're called

00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:38.260
teachers but it really is just facilitating and

00:55:38.260 --> 00:55:41.780
observing and and learning your children isn't

00:55:41.780 --> 00:55:44.920
it yeah i'm kind of using this podcast as cpd

00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:47.159
actually like chatting to you all and all the

00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:49.840
time all the time when we're chatting to everybody

00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:51.940
I'm thinking oh yeah I need to do more of this

00:55:51.940 --> 00:55:54.059
or I need to add on to this because we're always

00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:55.699
trying to improve our practice aren't we I'm

00:55:55.699 --> 00:55:57.119
just wondering right is there anything that you're

00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:59.219
focusing on this year with your team to like

00:55:59.219 --> 00:56:01.500
something that you are trying to improve and

00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:04.840
and really work on so I think our biggest thing

00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:07.000
at the minute is making sure that we're always

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.579
using the visuals the visuals and they're available

00:56:10.579 --> 00:56:13.360
for everything and and just being aware of that

00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:16.300
I'm also after listening to the the podcast about

00:56:16.300 --> 00:56:18.599
the sensory stories I really want to develop

00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:21.719
them because I've really resonated with the whole

00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:25.159
you can grab a box of leaves you can grab the

00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:27.940
things but actually is it meaningful and are

00:56:27.940 --> 00:56:31.179
you in all of those senses and and the processing

00:56:31.179 --> 00:56:34.760
time like I'm not setting time and I'll give

00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:37.840
my learners an instruction and I'll wait But

00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.480
in a sensory story, it's like, oh, the leaves

00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:41.800
are falling down. Quick, look at the leaves.

00:56:42.460 --> 00:56:45.179
You've got to get it round. Yeah, and even the

00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:47.099
processing time after a story is something that

00:56:47.099 --> 00:56:50.179
we're working on. Not just packing it up and

00:56:50.179 --> 00:56:51.880
then moving on. We're so bad for that. And intentional

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.059
autism is bad for that as well. Pack it up and

00:56:54.059 --> 00:56:57.199
move on. Let's just sit and just see what happens.

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.980
Yeah. What a language. If they do take four minutes

00:57:00.980 --> 00:57:03.139
to process, like I think she was saying, that

00:57:03.139 --> 00:57:07.039
one of her pupils did. what happens in four minutes

00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:09.900
will they suddenly look up will they suddenly

00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:13.539
yeah yeah that's definitely something we're working

00:57:13.539 --> 00:57:16.099
on is is maybe assessing individual processing

00:57:16.099 --> 00:57:19.219
times and working alongside that and using that

00:57:19.219 --> 00:57:22.980
to inform our practice she was saying i did a

00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:25.239
one -to -one with her as well actually more recently

00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:28.219
and she said if you put something in their hand

00:57:28.219 --> 00:57:31.639
and then they count how long it takes for them

00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:35.019
to close their hand on it and that's their processing

00:57:35.019 --> 00:57:39.800
time of from visual to body and so some of the

00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:42.099
some of them might be instantly so then you know

00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:44.300
some of them might be 10 seconds like we say

00:57:44.300 --> 00:57:46.940
to wait but she had a girl once that did it was

00:57:46.940 --> 00:57:50.300
four minutes wow and then she closed and she

00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:53.039
said okay great now we know four minutes you're

00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.000
gonna have to have this resource for four minutes

00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:59.639
for you to process get your body working in order

00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.559
to engage with this item and it was really informative

00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:05.380
isn't it to know that about our pupils yeah yeah

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:07.780
i'm gonna try that yeah so that's our mission

00:58:07.780 --> 00:58:10.099
then great i love it i love a bit of homework

00:58:10.099 --> 00:58:13.260
absolutely homework for adults no homework for

00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:15.019
children i don't like homework for children but

00:58:15.019 --> 00:58:17.559
homework for adults i like so okay let's do that

00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:20.099
then let and everybody listening as well get

00:58:20.099 --> 00:58:22.480
your pupils put something exciting in their hands

00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:25.019
or something nice and textured something that

00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:27.179
wakes their palm up because palms are really

00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:30.059
sensitive as well and just see just count and

00:58:30.059 --> 00:58:32.280
let's and let's come back and find out and use

00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:34.539
that to inform our practice yeah i love that

00:58:34.539 --> 00:58:37.639
awesome thank you so much for everybody listening

00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.960
when can where can everybody find your wonderful

00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:45.380
ideas so most of my content goes onto tiktok

00:58:45.380 --> 00:58:48.300
and that's kind of where i remember to post all

00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:52.139
of my content i did I have got an Instagram page,

00:58:52.340 --> 00:58:54.860
which I set up purely for one of my friends at

00:58:54.860 --> 00:58:57.719
work who was not on TikTok and refused to download

00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:01.980
it. Instagram just for her. But I do forget to

00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:04.500
post things on there. So the TikTok is where

00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:07.920
you'll find the most of it. Wonderful. Thank

00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.480
you. Definitely go and follow her over there.

00:59:09.539 --> 00:59:11.739
She's so inspiring. And yeah, follow her journey

00:59:11.739 --> 00:59:14.099
as she builds on her TikTok and maybe Instagram

00:59:14.099 --> 00:59:17.619
as well. Our final bed. Thank you so much, Chloe.

00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:19.239
And I can't wait to hear about your children's

00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.579
processing times. Thanks so much for having me.

00:59:21.980 --> 00:59:23.320
Bye. Bye -bye.