1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,220 Hello everybody and welcome back to another podcast. Today I am rejoined by 2 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:10,160 my first returning guest today, it's Sammie Spectrum-Potronum on social media 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:16,240 who is a teacher, special education teacher, who shares loads of 4 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:21,520 things actually but lots of stuff around communication and that was how I found 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:29,500 her back last year and was really taken by her creative approach and doing 6 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:32,560 things the way I've always thought they should be done but had never been able 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,640 to do in my classroom and she was the first guest on my podcast and now is 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,560 returning. Hello Sammie. Hi Jordan, thank you so much for having me back on. Of 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,520 course, it was actually such a good conversation and I felt like it could 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,840 have just kept going and going so I feel like it's only time, it's only right 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,560 that we get you back on. We talked a lot about communication, I'd like to talk 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,040 about communication again today. It is definitely at the forefront of my mind 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:02,480 this year and has been something that I've been really working hard on and I 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,800 feel like even since the last time we chatted lots of things have changed in 15 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,400 that sense in my classroom, mainly from these kind of conversations that I'm 16 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,320 having with these experts and kind of self-reflection in that way and making 17 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,680 those changes. I'm wondering though, has anything changed in your classroom since 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:22,000 we last spoke or what kind of has been your focus this year I suppose? Yeah so 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:30,120 this year it's, I mean I've really pushed with my team modeling, the value of 20 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,060 modeling and even though we know requesting is such an early stage and it 21 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:39,480 gets the learners in like sort of motivated but we've really been modeling 22 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:46,080 the commenting and the core language as well has been a big push and I mean it's 23 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:52,960 just been phenomenal to see. The class I work with are very complex communication 24 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,200 and cognitive or non-speaking and seeing some of these children using like core 25 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:05,480 vocabulary to create small sentences and advocate for themselves has just been 26 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,440 like that's it's that if I didn't I think I'm so communication based with all our 27 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,760 learning it's always got a communication base and it just motivates me so much 28 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:20,680 to like find more find more AAC and new things as well, trialing 29 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,440 different devices and stuff. So your class sounds quite similar to mine, 30 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:31,160 minimally speaking, if they do speak then it's core words or maybe even phrases 31 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,860 that they've learned but ultimately it's minimal speaking. So what does 32 00:02:35,860 --> 00:02:39,840 communication look like in your room? What kind of systems are you using in 33 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:46,800 your classroom? Yeah so every child has their own either book or device so of 34 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:53,960 sorts from we have one young person with they're using e-tran frame so it's a 35 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,640 clear frame and we put four items on so we use it as an eye gaze system and 36 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:07,360 sometimes he might reach to take the take the symbol. Okay. So we go from sort 37 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:13,280 of that through to like using buttons for more and stop and then other children 38 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,000 who have a huge communication but can are able to like completely navigate it 39 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:25,960 to communicate so we do have a real mix of levels within our classroom even 40 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,640 though you know they're all non-speaking apart from one child who has 41 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:33,480 some Gestalt phrases that that he does sort of like whisper every now and then 42 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,520 otherwise that you know you might come in and I think some people might come in 43 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,440 and think oh they're all non-speaking so they all must be at the same level and 44 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,760 actually I've got children making all these amazing sentences and then I've 45 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,200 got other children who I've been working with for four years and we're doing 46 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,360 intensive interaction and we're using the e-tran frame and we're still very 47 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,720 much on the requesting side because that's we're just meeting them where 48 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:04,640 they're at. Yeah it's so true and sometimes they can be really able in some areas 49 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,360 like maybe physically able really great at climbing or really great at I don't 50 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,080 know you know maybe more gross motor skills maybe but yeah that that doesn't 51 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,480 necessarily correlate into the academic and then also they could be fantastic at 52 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,240 sorting and ordering colors or numbers or the alphabet letters but but they 53 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,120 don't all spiky basically is what I'm saying aren't they is including 54 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,160 including with their speech so yeah of course you know they're all over the 55 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:37,000 place in some sense. My class is exactly the same I would say we range from those 56 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,780 that are learning to reach out and track objects and notice that their 57 00:04:42,780 --> 00:04:47,800 environment has changed within you know 50 centimeters of them, lights and sounds 58 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,400 you know kind of noticing those and processing those and reacting to those 59 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,360 in you know in a not distressed way is one of the targets you know so that 60 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:01,120 we're kind of working at that stage and then also yeah sound buttons, iPads, 61 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,800 core boards, symbols and pointing gesture reach objects and references. 62 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,280 Yeah yeah sounds like there's been a good thing added this year actually I feel 63 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:18,320 like it's such a beautiful in between from that kind of guiding and reaching to 64 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:25,120 an iPad or a core board I feel like it's it's wonderful for my PMLD learners to 65 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,120 be able to make a choice with and it is high tech I guess you'd call it would 66 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:36,880 you the sound buttons? Yeah I would say yeah because I just well it's yes tricky 67 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,320 because I see high tech. It's not low tech is it? No yeah because I'd say low tech is all your paper based 68 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,320 yeah and then high tech is anything electronic? Yeah and also it's that cause 69 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,720 and effect as well isn't it I think I would say high tech but yeah it's a good 70 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:58,920 gateway into exploring isn't it exploring that cause and effect. I think so but it's got that tangible factor. 71 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,320 It's quite nice for our children that have gone from objects of reference that 72 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,320 are incredibly tactile to a sound button it just feels like it with just with 73 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,920 that click or that press and that reaction of immediate sound and that is 74 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,320 physically possible for them to do it independently which is something that 75 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:22,620 we're really going for is independently making a speech attempt rather than it 76 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:26,720 being guided or hand-over-hand you know one thing we've moved away from just in 77 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,620 the last few weeks is with our PMLD learners we used to use an iPad to say 78 00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:35,220 good morning and one of my TA's very rightly said why are we guiding them to 79 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:37,920 press good morning they might not have had a good morning they might not want 80 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,320 to say good morning you know we had a tambourine as well like surely the 81 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,880 tambourine is just enough if they want to touch it they can touch it if they 82 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,360 don't want to they don't like just because that's spoken doesn't mean that's 83 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:53,620 better and I love that because she's sometimes it just takes someone else to 84 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:57,380 just question like I know we've always done this but why are we doing this what 85 00:06:57,380 --> 00:07:02,320 for whose purpose is it yes that's a really great question and that's only 86 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,620 been in the last few weeks in my classroom and now we offer the tambourine 87 00:07:05,620 --> 00:07:10,720 or a sound button for good morning and they can do it or they don't do it and 88 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,020 that's their choice and some of them went for the tambourine today and lots 89 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:16,560 of them were exploring the sound button because it's new and it said good 90 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,600 morning and then that was really exciting and then we got to the afternoon 91 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,600 thought oh no we can't use it we it says good morning and we need to make another 92 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,800 one with good afternoon that's classic isn't it yeah but but it felt it felt so 93 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:34,400 much more affirming I'm really pleased that she you know had the trust and the 94 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,040 confidence I suppose to bring that up and question you know I know you've 95 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,960 not always done this but why are we doing there absolutely and that's what I 96 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,440 mean I always say to my team I'm like you know what especially if you have if 97 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,040 done a course you're always taught to be a reflective practitioner and then that 98 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,640 needs to continue you know however many years into doing the job things don't 99 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:03,720 stay the same and you know we all evolve and we we learn different things and we 100 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,120 sort of understand more like body autonomy and all that sort of thing and 101 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,040 one thing that we've really taken on board is rather than hand under over 102 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,280 hand we're doing hand under hand so we're offering our hand especially for 103 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,240 our learners who can't make a pointing finger but they could make a choice out 104 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,320 of lots of things but they they might be hitting and touching like five symbols 105 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,920 so you know offering our hand and then they are able to request using our hand 106 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,360 and actually they've got that choice and we're not you know controlling their 107 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,400 hands they've got that choice and it's and that has worked so well with some of 108 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,720 our learners it's you know really good and that's really interesting what you 109 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,960 said about your one of your support staff because that came up in my school 110 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,560 a couple of weeks ago we had an AAC person come in and we were talking about 111 00:08:54,560 --> 00:09:01,360 how actually for some children in some classes and some settings may only see 112 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,000 a sound button it's a routine it's that routine and we press the sound button in 113 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,240 the morning and it says good morning and that's what the sound button is for and 114 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,080 it may not be used for the rest of the day or like I've got one up by the sink 115 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,840 area to request a drink if in case like you know a child's stuck there and they 116 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,080 don't know what to do so they can request a drink we've got one by the 117 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,720 outside door so they can press to request to go outside and actually I 118 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,520 thought yes you're only using it in certain situations they may think that's 119 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,640 all that it's for it's just that and nothing kind of happens with it like 120 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,080 you've got to put the cause and effect is just the sound totally but it is also 121 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,400 that I suppose them learning that not every time at not every interaction is a 122 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,720 request so it's kind of mixed isn't it but also like I feel like starting with 123 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,400 good morning just seems a bit weird because that definitely isn't the most 124 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:58,320 important thing for them yeah yeah absolutely like why would we start with 125 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,720 good morning if that's gonna be yeah why why is that the most important time I 126 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,240 guess it's because it's the one that I see most because often you know I've 127 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,800 kind of got two classrooms in a way and they kind of yeah do theirs and I do 128 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,600 often do it so it's a time it's a time when we're all together and I feel like 129 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,320 they want to celebrate the communication and their progress and all of those 130 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:21,520 kind of yeah yes is why it's happened and a time the no time but yeah I totally 131 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,720 agree that it just seems very odd that that's kind of how it's happened yeah 132 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,120 and we've got finished button as well so we've got finished and good morning 133 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,560 which is a very odd start but we'll get there oh dear I was just saying before 134 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:37,600 we pressed record that I've had a very overwhelming day today my classroom has 135 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,040 been incredibly loud incredibly loud and not from vocalizations necessarily 136 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,920 although there was a bit of screaming happy screaming it's from AAC stimming 137 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:56,000 yes so this is new for us because we had two users of AAC that were provided 138 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,800 within a speech language therapist but this week we have amazingly been 139 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:06,160 provided with proloquo on all of our iPad apps so every single every single 140 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,200 child has got proloquo which is amazing but it also means all starting at once 141 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,340 means all the children are exploring it which is really exciting and they're 142 00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:19,400 really my training yeah right and one of my lads today for the you know his first 143 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,360 day with this iPad and he walked it around and he brought it with him 144 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,360 everywhere and he was typing out he chose to type out what so he can spell 145 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,760 he typed out what his timetable was he's just decided this is what it's gonna be 146 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:37,280 and everywhere went around the day he was like almost adding it to the list of 147 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,940 what he'd done and then listening to what he'd done that day and then doing 148 00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:45,760 the next thing it was just so beautiful it was wonderful there was so much robotic 149 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,280 sound and you know when they press all the buttons and then hear it all back 150 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,840 yeah but they were all doing it and I so I've been I've been trying to teach over 151 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,520 this the whole time watching me feeling incredibly overwhelmed my staff are 152 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:06,240 incredibly not wanting to speak over bit it but naturally you you do so it's been 153 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,960 very overwhelming but also in the back of my mind I'm like they're exploring it 154 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,320 it's their voice we can't control it I don't want to be controlling or you know 155 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,520 I don't want to build compliance I want them to have free access but my god 156 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,480 overwhelming so have you found that do you have any tips am I being too loose 157 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,000 with it should there be some boundaries I just need help because my god today was 158 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:37,320 wild I mean thank you because um I think absolutely agree there's that like 159 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:43,720 period of time I think when somebody gets access to a device where you have 160 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,800 to have that exploration we explorative phase but the fact that it was all on 161 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,600 the same day must have been extremely overwhelming I'm just like imagining 162 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,020 like being in a toy shop and everything just going off at the same time yeah we 163 00:12:56,020 --> 00:13:01,360 had constipation and bath and toothbrush chat over this side I had animals over 164 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:07,180 this side I had colors behind me it was just it was a numbers yeah it was all 165 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:10,560 going on it was very exciting and it was lovely to hear their voice and lovely to 166 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:15,720 hear what they were choosing to express you know and explore because they very 167 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:22,800 much were excited about different parts of the yeah but it was yeah I looked at 168 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:29,120 my team and just I felt bad I felt bad yeah we were all going for this you know 169 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,840 we all know that they need to just explore it and no yeah so a functional 170 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,800 use eventually but yeah absolutely and I think there's probably a sense of 171 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,780 novelty around it as well and whilst exploring something new and having it 172 00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:52,600 all to themselves because in my classroom we have one iPad with grid on 173 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,400 and then I also have like some go talks and then obviously each child has a 174 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:05,840 paper base a low tech communication aid as well so to share the iPad is quite 175 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:11,120 tricky so we do often leave it sort of stood up leave it around so that the 176 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,800 children can come and use it as and when and then we are model it use it to model 177 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,840 by learner who's using the e-tran frame for the first time is not it's not one 178 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,680 that's interested in iPads this week he found I just left it up and he just 179 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,320 found some words and quite often on the go talk you'll find the you like the you 180 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:37,240 and which press you you you you you you over and over and he found it on there 181 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,480 on the iPad as well and then as soon as he found it he was just pressing it 182 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,800 pressing it over and over again listening to that sound and I thought 183 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,320 it's fantastic but again even with him doing that and then I had another shower 184 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,160 with the go talk listening to animal noises so even that was just two devices 185 00:14:53,160 --> 00:15:00,320 so I mean I I don't have much advice on that other than I feel like if it was me 186 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,200 and I think I would and this is this is me coming from somewhere where I know I 187 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:10,160 could do this it also different settings different like rules but I would kind of 188 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,160 write off the learning the learning would be the exploration and maybe try 189 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,240 to split the children into different rooms and spaces so that they can hear 190 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,320 their own as well so you know maybe like four children taking it to the woods 191 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:29,960 four children taking it you know to software yeah because then it's sort of 192 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,800 like less overwhelming for everybody but I definitely think there's that 193 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,680 exploration phase which they we they all have to go through and yeah I mean I 194 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:46,760 yeah I literally just think oh my gosh if my whole class had one I would I yeah 195 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,940 it would be a lot yeah it is and it is a lot and I'm just gonna have to ride it a 196 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:54,420 bit like our first attention autism session was absolutely chaos and I 197 00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:58,920 thought what am I doing why am I doing this to myself this is never gonna work 198 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,360 it's never gonna work and now it's just so it's so fabulous so I'm really I'm 199 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,560 hopeful and I trust the thing is I trust the system I've seen it with other 200 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:14,480 children I completely trust the process and I want this to be theirs their voice 201 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,000 and it was actually one of one of the children was using an iPad we lock it 202 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:27,440 onto the app as well so yeah that's a must lock it onto the app yeah I'd locked 203 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,160 it on to the app and it was the one I was using and this girl had her own one 204 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,320 and she had two of them and I needed one of them because I needed at least one 205 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,960 and then I took it away and I didn't say anything I just said oh mine or whatever 206 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,160 and she said the boys name that used to have one this person's voice because 207 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,160 that's obviously what we say like because that's what we say 208 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,880 Jordan's voice or you know that said this boy's name and I thought oh that's 209 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,280 so funny you know that she's got it and I said oh this is and this is voice you 210 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,240 know this is your voice but it was yeah it was just so it was so wonderful that 211 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,000 she's got it yeah because we've been modeling I guess is what this comes down 212 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,400 to because we've been using that language and modeling that this is then 213 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,840 a very easy transition and because we've been using low-tech core boards it's 214 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,560 also an easier transition for my teaching assistants because obviously 215 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,320 this is amazing technology for them as well and it can be feel quite 216 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,080 overwhelming to learn it so they're learning at the same time as the 217 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:31,080 children so you know they can stim and choose buttons and go through folders as 218 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,040 well so as we were doing my story all of my teaching assistants had their iPads 219 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:40,600 and I wanted them to find certain words that I was saying in the story as I went 220 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:46,360 just just for their own practice you know can you find the animal can you 221 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:49,960 find it and I was modeling how to find it and they were finding it too and what 222 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,640 was happening is some of the children didn't seem like they noticed but some 223 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,560 of the children did and they were then looking through the folders as well so 224 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,640 yeah it's all it's really new for all of us I feel like it's it's really exciting 225 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,880 it's really exciting it's such an exciting time if any teachers are 226 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,000 listening and thinking how did you get loads of iPads for your room I was 227 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,320 quite sneaky so last year we transitioned from paper-based assessment 228 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:20,840 to tech-based assessment so we had a load of iPads for for our assessment so 229 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,920 for photos we use ever since but it's a bit like tapestry or ever since evidence 230 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,160 for learning they're all kind of similar take a photo and it gets sent home to 231 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,840 parents and it gets saved and trapped on their levels is kind of what we do so we 232 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,160 needed enough iPads in order to do that and then I thought well we've got all 233 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,360 these iPads you know we could we could buy Proloquo and then you can put for 234 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:47,600 one payment for one license you can put them on as many iPads as you want so 235 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:53,120 that's how I managed yeah so that's how I managed to do it was convinced them to 236 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:57,840 get one license and a load of iPads for the assessment and and yeah and then 237 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,920 we've all got it it unfortunately it means that we all have the same voice it 238 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,480 we all have the same folders but we're just gonna do that navigate that really 239 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,040 carefully and and make that and make it generic enough but also meaningful enough 240 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,360 and kind of go along that way it's better that than nothing and yes that's 241 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:17,360 how I snuck that in there that's how I managed that one it's been a year in the 242 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:24,500 making I'm finally done that's great we managed this year to get grid for every 243 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:30,880 class so I think we paid for 40 40 licenses that's huge that's a lot and it 244 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,120 came out of the communication budget and obviously I'm the communication lead and 245 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:38,840 I think the finance team were a bit like oh my goodness this is a massive chunk of 246 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,660 your budget and I said that I said if an iPad breaks you know the iPads are under 247 00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:49,100 you know the school scheme so they get them replaced I said if and we can just 248 00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:56,040 move the app move that license whereas if the go talk breaks that's 250 pounds 249 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,720 and it's broken and does it you know that you can't price on the children's 250 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:07,760 you know you've got tonight no exactly you've got so many hurdles for them to 251 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,600 get their voice whereas everyone else just gets their voice for free it just 252 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,880 seems very unfair to have to jump through so many hurdles in order to get 253 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:21,160 their voice and I mean obviously at the moment we've got one per class on the 254 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,920 iPads but I'm hoping that you know the next financial year I can buy some more 255 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,280 because we do have two iPads per class and then that'd be another one and then 256 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,280 also sometimes if you prove unfortunately we're in the game of proving 257 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:41,280 work and proving they can do it you just by having one unfortunately we were in 258 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,000 the game of that and the business of that so hopefully by just even just 259 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,680 having one in the class you can almost prove to speak to language or prove to 260 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,680 the referral prove to the charity whoever you're going to or county that 261 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,400 this is working they do respond to it they do communicate this way they are 262 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,160 choosing this and then evidence it that way and then maybe it can they can then 263 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,880 be referred and then it can be paid for in another way but unfortunately without 264 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:15,000 that initial test it's really hard to get access yeah I agree with our first 265 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,280 two that what is that was funded originally that was our first two yeah 266 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,040 we had to prove so much that they could do all these things that you can't even 267 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,440 do on an iPod very pecs system actually which is a bit more because that's very 268 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:36,080 not like what we do now yeah it was very weird we had to prove lots and lots of 269 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,960 things that they were persistent and that over distance and that they could 270 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,320 go to lots of different communication partners and that they could travel with 271 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,680 it and they chose to travel you know all these kind of things actually they all 272 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:52,080 learn when they have an iPad if it's really because I feel like they you know 273 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,560 they almost needed targets in order to prove their quota and they guys kind of 274 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,920 picked these old-school target communication targets out there it seemed 275 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,040 very odd so it meant that it was a barrier to lots of other access which 276 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,960 we've proved just in day one you know today that actually yeah it's what some 277 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,960 of them are already taking them around to different areas with them because 278 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:22,160 it's it's motivating to them mm-hmm yeah yeah it's gonna be an interesting 279 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,920 experiment but I know my colleagues gonna struggle who's autistic and very 280 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,680 sound-sensitive so I'm just gonna have to send him a very loving email tomorrow 281 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:36,680 saying sorry and just remember just stimming and I'm gonna say it's like a 282 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,820 piano they have to be a bit plinky-plonky before and you know we're gonna have to 283 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:46,320 model and show them how to use it but they will get there and just kind of 284 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,520 saluted and remind my teachers since you know please just go with it you know 285 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:59,080 next week it will be even more and we'll see the progress and yeah yeah it's yeah 286 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,840 I already had some coming to me saying but do they have to use it everywhere 287 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,240 you know could we just when learning time we take it away and then and then 288 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,520 in stimming time and choosing time then they can have it back and I said 289 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,440 absolutely not that isn't what we're doing here no they have to do it all the 290 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,480 time we'll get there we'll get there but yeah absolutely it's it's definitely 291 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:27,840 it's just it's it's a learning journey isn't it for everyone I think and having 292 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:35,340 the your team on board modeling and understanding the value I think and you 293 00:23:35,340 --> 00:23:39,880 know I think you will I think you know everyone will have teething issues 294 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,560 especially like at the beginning but like you said with your attentional 295 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:49,160 system I think it will just find its rhythm yeah and it'll be interesting 296 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:55,080 because I think those children in my class that I assumed this is what they 297 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,520 that I saw that they were motivated by the iPad and I've games and things like 298 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,560 that and they were reluctant to use their paper base so we were just model a 299 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,120 lot and then so I thought this child I feel like it's really gonna work 300 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,920 and kind of like not that interested in it so it really shocked me and then 301 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:20,120 another child who I didn't really have on my radar he has blown with it and has 302 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:26,520 like wowed me so much that he's the first one that I have referred to try 303 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,880 and get a device for himself because that's the other thing isn't it like we 304 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,960 have it so currently in my school like I said we've all got one iPad with grid on 305 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,160 so that's for each class but then when they go home they have their paper base 306 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,840 and if they're not that motivated by the paper base and can access so much more 307 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,960 language on a device it's like it's that fight to try and get them the AAC that 308 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,240 they they deserve it feels so cruel imagine have only having your voice at 309 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,640 school like it just seems and they'll know in their head like oh if I was at 310 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,320 school right now I could get that particular thing I want but now I'm just 311 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,000 done with this and yeah I can imagine that would that would breed even more 312 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,840 frustration yeah because all of a sudden they're aware I am being understood in 313 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,880 this other environment why aren't you understanding me in this one and it 314 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,400 might I mean some parents do purchase it in the end don't they because they're 315 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,520 convinced and because it works and and they want to encourage our children 316 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,120 which is amazing and it shouldn't again it should have to be like that but that 317 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,840 that is just the reality of the situation isn't it the financial 318 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:38,680 situation but again I suppose at least if we've got one in school the parents 319 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:46,640 could also purchase it feeling confident that it's accessible and worth worth the 320 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:53,960 financial yeah yeah absolutely and I know that there's also different routes 321 00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:00,680 to go down but it's it can be quite hard I think there's a lot due to budgets it's 322 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,560 always to do with money isn't it that it can be you know very hard to get what 323 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,200 the children need so we're currently trying to go through a center and they 324 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,840 they're a charity so hopefully yeah it's we've got a lot of children in our 325 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:22,720 school nearly 300 pupils and we are we've only just got grid I've been 326 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,080 fighting for a long time to get a more diverse range of AAC products in the 327 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:33,920 school and it's been a long fight and I think people that I think people who 328 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:40,080 maybe in the school weren't as on board with it you know trying to get children 329 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,880 away from screens and things like that and I'm like but look at the benefit I 330 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,440 think they've realized and now they've seen how it much has changed some 331 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,800 children's lives and how much communication has come from certain 332 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,520 pupils it's you know it's a real game changer it's a real game changer so yeah 333 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,720 yeah I totally agree I agree they probably it does come from a good place 334 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,240 you know they they want to keep their focus and not dysregulate them you know 335 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,600 lots of children like I have we had it today with the people that was stimming 336 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,920 and exploring on the iPad and then run like the zoomies proper zoomies I can't 337 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,360 explain it proper zoomies into the other room and then back again to listen and 338 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:26,600 then pressing again and then back into the other room to listen to pure joy but 339 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,080 but incredibly dysregulated and there's absolutely no focus for any of anything 340 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,960 else there so you can see why people seeing that would think well you know 341 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,560 this isn't this can't happen you know he won't be able to learn anything else 342 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,800 naturally is incredibly dysregulated and then and then of course you look at 343 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,400 sensory diet stuff there don't you yeah it's and movement and all of that kind 344 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,020 of stuff around around it and also know you know it might they might not just do 345 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:59,660 that forever you know it might just not be just stimming all the time as long as 346 00:27:59,660 --> 00:28:04,600 we're modeling what else we could use it for and that's incredibly motivating if 347 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,400 a child has never been able to ask for the certain drink they want before or a 348 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,320 certain play equipment they want before or a certain activity they want before 349 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,200 that's gonna be incredibly motivating once they realize that this square you 350 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,200 know thing that they press can help them access all those things it's just about 351 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,440 showing them that actually you know yes you can stim on it and that's really fun 352 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,320 but look what else it does and then that might be a bit boring. 353 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:40,400 Yeah and I totally agree like it's about the access and actually as and I find 354 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:46,680 making individualized communication books really tricky because I think I am 355 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:53,280 choosing what words you are communicating I am choosing your voice 356 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,400 for you so I often end up getting carried away and this communication book 357 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,640 is like 40 pages and I'm like this child's got to carry around this communication book and I 358 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,820 just want to be able to give them so much opportunity and so much language 359 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:17,200 within the book that actually a device can hold hundreds of thousands of words 360 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,200 on one device rather than them carrying around like an lever arch file do you know what I mean? 361 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,160 You can be in a situation all of a sudden you need a oh I only did the other day I need a triceratops 362 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:33,240 you know I can't just go off and print that and make it up yeah but I could search for it and 363 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,240 and within seconds it was on there and we could press it yeah and we had it but there is value 364 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,720 in core words as well there are so many uses and situations where that would be amazing 365 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:51,160 now you make and sell core boards don't you and with like core board books like communication books 366 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,920 yeah yeah with yeah with core boards on the side yeah a little bit about that and how like how what 367 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,080 it looks like and how it's used and then your why you back that so much because you obviously do 368 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,280 if you're if you're gonna put all the time and effort into making it you know what is it about 369 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:14,160 a communication book that's having boards absolutely if you obviously with communication books the big 370 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:20,680 like seller for me is that we can make them for free and obviously what we do is we make a couple 371 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,760 two copies so that there's one that gets sent home because it all it is is printing and laminating 372 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,040 sheets you know that doesn't cost the school that much money we can send one of those home and then 373 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,200 we've got one at school so the parents don't have to panic if they forget to send in their voice for 374 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,880 the day you know that takes that pressure off so we always make two and we make them individualized 375 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:48,120 we've got always got like core language on one side and then fringe language on the other and 376 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,440 I mean you've got your core program your core vocab program we know the importance of core 377 00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:00,600 language and I think I didn't until I did a course I didn't realize how much core language is so 378 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:09,080 valuable because it makes up 80% of our daily language and interactions yet it's only 200 words 379 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:18,800 do we only have 200 core words you know call call that's why core language is so important and then 380 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:29,840 on the right hand side we have all the fringe language which is you know the other 249 thousand 381 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:36,400 hundred words in in the English language and actually that's where I get stuck and I go oh 382 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,000 my gosh all I've got is requesting I need to add some commenting on there I need to add some 383 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:48,640 actions I need to add some places and things like that to try and expand the language and actually 384 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,360 I always make them completely individualized to that child and then we have generic ones as well 385 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:02,320 that we use to support so all most of the staff at my school have made their own books and I love 386 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:09,520 this so I started off like a trend so me and my team I've got a team of ladies who are on my 387 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,120 communication team and we all made our own books and we're carrying around our own books and 388 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,800 modeling because we're like you know what we need to model all the time we need to have our own 389 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,640 books and then all the assistants support assistants like oh I love that and then everyone started 390 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:32,240 getting different straps you know that you can get that carrying it around all the time because I 391 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,520 think that's something we really struggled with as well is pupils like and us prompting the pupils 392 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:44,560 to take their voice with them when we leave the classroom and I think by staff modeling that it's 393 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,080 supported the pupils doing it because actually some pupils might feel a bit like or they might 394 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,320 feel a bit anxious about taking it out or a bit like maybe a bit isolated I don't know if they're 395 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:03,040 in a more like in a class maybe with with children who don't use as many communication aids and 396 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:10,000 having the adults there with them and using them all the time normalizing it as a strategy I think 397 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:16,480 is so important but yeah a core core going back to core I just when I found out that it was 80% 398 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,080 of our language I do this activity whenever I give training where I give every adult a core 399 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,680 board and I say right you've got two minutes I want you to see how many sentences you can make 400 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,720 with these 30 core words and actually everyone always comes up with so much different so many 401 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:37,280 different things and that you can use in different contexts but obviously the tricky thing is with 402 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:47,200 core is that it's not something you can physically see you know drink we know that drink is an easy 403 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:54,000 one to do drink whereas go what does go look like that's like you can't visualize it anyway 404 00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:01,200 it's not countable and that is where the core language is trickier to teach but so valuable 405 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,440 so yeah big advocate for core yeah I mean clearly I am as I literally talk about it all the time 406 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,520 yeah we had yeah I agree and then you have tabs at the bottom don't you yeah it's easy to navigate 407 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,880 through you know if you're thinking oh my god but there's so many pages actually there's tabs at 408 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,920 the bottom and they've all got their little you know there might be a student one and an outdoor one 409 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:33,520 absolutely like a sensory one and like a care page so it's easy to find as well feelings spelling 410 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:39,840 and then the option to I add the option like do you want to write it or type it for those children 411 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:46,640 who obviously they actually like you said you've got a learner who is able to type yeah and actually 412 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,760 that's having just having access to like a keyboard to be able to type is fantastic 413 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,760 yeah and then I you want to again reduce the barrier don't you you don't want to make you want 414 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,920 to give this really long-winded way of getting what they want because ultimately then they'll 415 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,040 try to take away which sometimes look like unsafe behaviors which sometimes look like 416 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:11,840 inappropriate behaviors because it just is quicker why would I you know tap all these letters when I 417 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,440 can just fall to the floor and all of a sudden my doubts come running and help me you know 418 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,280 of course they're going to do that why wouldn't you when you have no voice that is how you communicate 419 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,000 so we want to we want to reduce this barrier we don't want to add more barriers so yeah I think 420 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,640 that's great if they type want to type type if they want to gesture and sign gesture and sign 421 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,680 if they want to you know point to pictures they point to pictures all of those things absolutely 422 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,080 and I think that's another thing that we're embracing and that that's something that I'm 423 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:46,800 supporting my team with is about that total communication approach and actually it's okay 424 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,480 if Sammy goes over to the sink gets a cup and brings you a cup that's amazing that they've 425 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,720 they're requesting a drink but also it's okay if Sammy stands at the sink with the cup and is stuck 426 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:06,880 and not sure what to do you can then go over and prompt to you know prompt by using um we we have 427 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:14,000 like drink symbols to be removed also a button and I've also now recently put up a talking panel 428 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,600 and that has six buttons on it and it's like drink wash hands because like you know if they've got 429 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:26,240 sticky hands from sensory play cereal these are all their like favorite snacks as well because 430 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:33,040 we do allow our children to snack throughout the day um you know all they I we always want them to 431 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,000 feel um that they can request those sorts of things and actually it's just about that like 432 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,920 that like recognizing where you can support the children but it's like allowing allowing them if 433 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,560 they're working on creating a sentence that's okay but it's the locating them just to hand you a 434 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,840 part and I think sometimes some of you know some of my support staff have struggled with that 435 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,280 because they're like oh but their target is to make a sentence yeah and it's like that's fine you can 436 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:05,840 extend that you accept you can you accept that form of communication go over help them with 437 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:11,440 help them with a drink and then model that I want drink or I'm thirsty is something else we're 438 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:17,520 trying is not is moving away from just like I want so like I'm like labeling how we're feeling I'm 439 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,680 thirsty I need a drink so yeah yeah it's so true and again it comes down to modeling doesn't it 440 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,600 and absolutely also understanding that in certain situations or on certain days children will be 441 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,360 able to access language and not access language so when a pupil is dysregulated for example they're 442 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:41,520 communication abilities will reduce massively I have a people that's incredibly I mean really 443 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:47,200 quick on the AAC it's been doing it for a couple of years now incredibly quick but when dysregulated 444 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:55,120 can't even make a choice of objects just loses all ability or want ability I suppose to to be 445 00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:01,280 able to communicate in that way he just needs us to make those decisions for him and and and do 446 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,120 that for him because he can't make choices he can't look at photos symbols is it is just too 447 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:13,200 much too overwhelming yeah and it's it's not that he can't it's just that you can't right now and 448 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,520 I think yeah that's also something as well isn't it and it might not be as big or as obvious as 449 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,520 that with your learners it might just be they might be seemingly okay and and actually exactly 450 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,800 they're just a bit tired or actually they've been doing it all day and they just want a drink you 451 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,000 know it's not and every opportunity is absolutely it's an opportunity to stretch them sometimes 452 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,720 they just want a drink so I think that's great what you just said is do the thing give the thing 453 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:46,880 and then what they could do yeah we have people in our class who self-harm and self-harm to 454 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:53,520 communicate so self-harm to get wrapped or self-harm to get access to a chair or gets access to a thing 455 00:38:53,520 --> 00:39:00,480 or it is communication it would be awful for us while she's punching herself in the head 456 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,480 to go and get her aacy model what she wants yeah or give her a choice would be even worse yeah but 457 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,480 even just modeling the sentence like while she's punching something obviously we're not going to 458 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:17,680 do that so we absolutely see what she's doing we give her what she needs and then we show her 459 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:23,040 a safer alternative way that she could have asked for that you know and in the hope that 460 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,240 oh that won't hurt me maybe I'll do that you know is the hope but yeah absolutely yes of course we 461 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:33,520 want her to do that but ultimately it's about meeting their needs first isn't it and honoring 462 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,840 that communication absolutely and what you just said there is something we completely honor in 463 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:46,640 our class as well and across our school it's regulation before communication I know we know 464 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:53,120 communication is so important and obviously behavior is a form of communication I just 465 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:59,200 and I you know we whenever we have behavioral communication training across school we always 466 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:05,040 say at the end of the day if they are dysregulated in any way then that the first thing to almost go 467 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,360 is is is that communication the ability to communicate effectively or in their way that 468 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,200 they would when they're regulated because they are no longer regulated so you absolutely need you take 469 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,560 your priority is that regulation not the learning not the teaching of communication within that moment 470 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,160 exactly and I spoke to a speech and language therapist only last week and it was amazing how 471 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:34,480 much we spoke about sensory circuits sensory diet sensory integration because it's not separate 472 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:41,680 it's so interwoven into communication so interwoven if they don't if they aren't regulated they cannot 473 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,840 communicate so of course speech and language therapists are going to spend a lot of their time 474 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,720 regulating children so that they can communicate it just makes sense but 475 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:56,960 but listening to her and all of her you know methods are incredibly occupational therapy 476 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:03,360 you know looking and sounding and yeah of course of course they are but you know I was taken aback 477 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,840 by that thinking yeah yeah of course we have to do it all we all have to do it all 478 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,560 whereas I thought it was oh I'm a special education teacher but I'm also this and I'm also that and 479 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:19,040 it's like we're all are we all are because without one you can't do the other and vice versa yeah so 480 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:24,720 I just I just thought that was an interesting um thing that I got out of our conversation last 481 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:31,120 week was yeah what you've just said is is that regulation is is key isn't it in all of it 482 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:38,080 absolutely yeah it's it's one of those things that it underpins it underpins everything and 483 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:44,320 I mean we we're always changing our timetable I quite often get asked online like about my 484 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:50,160 timetable and how my day looks like yeah often it's really hard to because we change it sometimes 485 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:56,720 daily basis or like we're like day to day it's depending on what the children need and at the 486 00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:03,280 moment we're getting a lot of children coming in just regulated and after they're transitioning 487 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,680 to school and we just have we are closing the blinds we've got our led like calming lights on 488 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:15,920 we've got we've got their favorite things out and a lot of people come in and be like oh is this just 489 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,240 a morning choose session yes it is a morning choose session because we are regulating because 490 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:27,120 if we come in now and I'm like right let's go and do some story massage and let's go and do intense 491 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:32,800 interaction it's not going to be a positive interaction what we need to prioritise here is 492 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,240 getting ourselves regulated and ready to learn because otherwise we're not going to have a great 493 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:44,560 day exactly it's still just as valuable isn't it I think it doesn't have to look like table paperwork 494 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,720 no I think something that special education teachers do really well actually that learning 495 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:53,360 can be in the corridor learning can be outside of the field learning can be on choosing time in fact 496 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:58,160 we get the best communication at choosing time and golden time or whatever you want to call it 497 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,800 there are some of our best moments in the toilet like some of our best learning and most important 498 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:09,600 learning moments for independence so just because it isn't called English or maths or communication 499 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,080 or problem solving whatever you want to call it doesn't mean that there's not learning happening 500 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,440 because actually some of the most important lessons for our learners happen around those 501 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:27,520 subject areas the subject areas are kind of the fluff really actually it's about care needs it's 502 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:32,240 about teaching independence about teaching communication teaching about to advocate for 503 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,720 their sensory needs and regulation you know all of those things it has to be and we're constantly 504 00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:44,800 we're constantly saying we meet care needs first and then we learn and sometimes some weeks we've 505 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:53,920 just met their care needs actually and that is okay absolutely and I see it in a lot of new 506 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,200 teachers in special needs that they come to our school like I said we're quite a big we're quite 507 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:06,640 a big send school we're primary we've got 34 classes across the school and I quite often see 508 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:13,600 them all trying to fit in there five lots of English five lots of maths topics and I'm like 509 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:21,440 it's okay you're allowed to prioritize their regulation and communication like those basic 510 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,040 needs like doing a breakfast plug because one of they because they might be hungry or didn't 511 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:34,880 eat breakfast or got up too late or whatever but I think it's I think that does come with time 512 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:42,720 as it's a confidence thing I think like eight years ago when we started I think if whenever 513 00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:50,240 um we needed just the children just needed this next session just for calming and like 514 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:55,760 management would come in I would be like this and I remember the heads at the time would come in and 515 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:02,880 go it's okay I can see turn taking going on over there it's okay I can see a child learning to 516 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,280 independently regulate over there they're meeting their sensory needs and it was always like 517 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:13,120 thank goodness because you know in your heart of hearts you are doing the right thing for your 518 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:20,240 class and for those children you get that fear I think whereas now I would happily come in and I 519 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:25,120 wouldn't worry who comes into my classroom and if they think nothing's happening I could I feel like 520 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,520 I could write a target for anything going on in my room and I feel but that I do feel like that is 521 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,480 something that comes with a bit of confidence isn't it oh is you an experience that's it yeah 522 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040 it's it's hard I think at first because I think you're like oh my gosh I need to do all of this 523 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,800 stuff exactly yeah it does it's also trial and error isn't it like lots of my what some people 524 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:51,200 would call in between kind of time like choice time and interaction maybe and physio we just 525 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:58,800 put it in the timetable as a lesson so physio isn't extra physio is p for example yeah communications 526 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,320 from the speech and language talk you know their target communication targets from the speech 527 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:08,000 language therapist aren't extra or additional they're embedded in in the lesson and it just 528 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,320 makes it so much easier their ip targets aren't extra they're things we're already doing because 529 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,320 otherwise it's just extra work for yourself so I think that comes with time as well doesn't it 530 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:21,680 of well that why are we doing two things when actually we could just do one the visual impairment 531 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:28,480 targets that come from a guy that visits once a year is embedded in is embedded in their 532 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:35,200 communication targets science today looked very much like intensive interaction and math looks 533 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,880 very much like you know they were sorting and organizing but we were doing organizing of a 534 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,560 sensory circuit really you know we were in that kind of stage and all of these things it doesn't 535 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,480 have to be extra when you're seeing all the you know the core like people saying how does the core 536 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,360 but how does he fit it into your timetable like it's english it's just english like it isn't 537 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,200 it's just english or it can actually be any of those things it could be creative it could be 538 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:03,520 you know probably you know again we've got the luxury of it's very cross-curricular we can fit 539 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:10,640 it in yeah we can call it whatever um yeah so yeah well think about the needs first of your 540 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,320 children and then name it what you want rather than thinking of the subject name and trying to 541 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,120 fit the children's needs to absolutely i was just about to say the same thing actually i said on my 542 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:25,920 timetable like i used to put on like maths and things but actually the unit like the phase of 543 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:32,320 teaching that i'm in at the moment i have a mix we all have mixed age groups so we have mixed and we 544 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:38,560 have created individualized bespoke curriculum for these children and we don't do maths in english 545 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:44,400 you know it's broad like my thinking and it could be like curiosity program and you know intensive 546 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:51,760 interaction and different things like that but then we've got looking after myself and my body 547 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:58,560 and it's just about it some lessons my team are like oh what does this fall under and i say it 548 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:04,800 could fall under absolutely everything right now because well look we're making sentences using our 549 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,160 communication device we're writing but we're also but they're also using their hands i was like so 550 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:15,600 that's also fine but you know you can actually walk in absolutely they're being independent 551 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,240 they're learning to they're like they're like tolerating others near them but they're also 552 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:27,360 being curious about x y and z you can kind of then it that is that holistic learning and it's just more 553 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:34,240 valuable i think when you like you're saying about like the targets and and also the lessons and how 554 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:40,080 if you just think about what that child needs and then it kind of just in our in our in my class 555 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,400 anyway it kind of just it just kind of fits and create you create your own little world so i no 556 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:51,440 longer put up like lessons it's just like i love those titles i really love them it makes it so 557 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,360 much more meaningful doesn't it and focus to what you're actually doing i feel like like we still 558 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,480 use general subject names i mean we're attached to mainstream school they're obsessed with it 559 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:06,000 um but yeah by calling it science it sets a an idea in my team's head of what it should look like 560 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,440 i feel whereas looking after myself can still be science it's all about biology it's all about 561 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:16,400 the country or psh even you know it can be all of these things but it also sets an idea of 562 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:22,160 the purpose looking after myself is important for these learners that's why we're doing it 563 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:28,720 that's the why it answers his own questions doesn't it yeah absolutely and it's like you know 564 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:34,880 i might write for my thinking i kind of write a maxi and an englishy target so it might be something 565 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:40,080 about the story that we're doing about engaging with the story and then building attention with 566 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:46,160 an act with and it's i make it very vague because i'd rather it us not be able to build attention to 567 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:53,760 one thing can we do it in different contexts etc and i think like you know when we do we at my 568 00:49:53,760 --> 00:50:01,280 class absolutely love story massage so we do story massage most days because they they just engaged 569 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:08,720 with it and they love it i just it's stories i yeah i i and i love right i love writing them as well 570 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:12,720 we're doing three little pigs at the moment so i just wrote one about three little three little pigs 571 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:19,680 and they are absolutely loving it but i'm like that's also my body it's about like you know they 572 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,560 get to choose which body part and it's all about like you know and body autonomy and also they can 573 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,960 say yes and we always ask them obviously and they say yes and no it's about that interaction it's 574 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,760 so it's like a conversation it's a physical conversation and so actually our four areas 575 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,480 of learning it covers my thinking because it's about stories it covers looking after myself 576 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,640 because it's about their body autonomy it covers my body because they're learning about their 577 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,440 body parts and how like the different strokes might feel on their foot to their hand and also 578 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:54,080 my communication because they're able to you know to interact with the book and then also choose 579 00:50:54,080 --> 00:51:00,960 body parts through through communication and also say yes and no or stop at any time and i just 580 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,200 think that's what like the holistic learning is all about really and i feel like the lessons where 581 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:10,560 i do strip it back like that do one thing and repeat it often i'm sure you repeat that often 582 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:16,400 as well with those lessons they're a joy to create for example for because you're thinking 583 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,720 of your learners when you're creating them so it is an absolute joy and a really excited to share 584 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:25,840 it with them but the actual lesson is an absolute joy as well because it's completely at their level 585 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,640 of understanding it's completely tailored to them without making it seem like i'm going to teach a 586 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,880 lesson now and then being disappointed when they can't access that or when it feels a little bit 587 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,200 chaotic or when they're running in and out i was subject to that today you know i'm going to hold 588 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,120 my hands up i was really trying hard to teach i can't be wrong but i was trying to teach it was 589 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:50,800 something like sequencing with patterns and it was on the whiteboard and i wanted them to sit in a 590 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,560 horseshoe shape and take turns on the whiteboard and then and they were all running in and out 591 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,880 and they were using their aac to stim and it was all a little bit crazy and thinking about it now 592 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:08,960 it was because i was expecting them to do it the school way academic way and actually there were 593 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:16,560 so many better ways so many better ways to teach sequencing of colors and sorting of colors that is 594 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:22,080 their way that is their toys or their colors or their maybe some people might be doing on the 595 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,840 ipad some people might be doing outside some people might doing it with little dolls and toys 596 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,240 and that they'd have been far more motivated by that and i wouldn't have been feeling overwhelmed 597 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:35,200 or you know whatever and disappointed that it didn't work out and all of those kind of things 598 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:40,480 actually if we go with you know how is this how are they going to be motivated by this are they 599 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:48,720 going to enjoy this is this going to be inviting to them i always say if a lesson doesn't work well 600 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:52,800 or if they don't want to join if they're not choosing to join a lesson or engage in lesson 601 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:58,880 it's because your lessons plans rubbish yeah and i'm subject and i'm subject and i'm yeah i hold 602 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,840 my hands up that was me today my lesson wasn't interesting to my learners it would have been 603 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,240 interesting some it wasn't interesting my learners it wasn't meeting their sensory needs it wasn't 604 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:13,440 me it wasn't inviting to them it wasn't motivating to them so then i was left they had a lovely time 605 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:20,400 but i was left feeling deflated and disappointed and oh that didn't work what am i going to do and 606 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,000 you know i'm the worst teacher you know all those kind of things you think and actually it wasn't 607 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:30,400 it was just the wrong lesson plan for my career and that and that is what it is don't you find 608 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:36,320 that like i do that every now and then and i don't know why i just i might see something online 609 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,400 another teacher's done and i go oh that's such a lovely idea or i'll speak to another teacher at 610 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,600 my school and i think i'm gonna try that and i sit there and i literally just look at my support 611 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:53,440 staff like what am i even what am i doing because i'm like i'm trying to maybe do something that i 612 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,880 think well they would enjoy but they it's either not engaging or they don't have the attention for 613 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,160 and actually it is about you know that that's like that teacher like you kind of getting back into 614 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,040 that teachery sometimes i don't feel like a teacher that's what i say to people i often don't feel 615 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:14,320 like a teacher because we do one circle time a day and that's for snack because we actually 616 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:20,480 don't do good morning circle anymore we just do snack and sometimes if we're regulated enough 617 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:26,160 i'll try and do a sensory story a very quick sensory story because we we struggle to attend 618 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:32,000 in our and we have a horseshoe table because my children do something to lean on and then they've 619 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,240 got their like if they're set on a pole they've got they've got like a bit of more stability 620 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:41,280 but actually if they get up and leave long gone are the days where i've like oh let's try and get 621 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:46,240 them back i'm like they're disengaged they're not interested they're communicating to me this is 622 00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:51,760 boring or i'm not interested so actually using that child led like you said like you know meeting 623 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:57,760 them at their level and saying oh actually this child loves bricks let's do flatten through brick 624 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:04,080 and it's that again and it comes for me it comes back to that modeling you know within their space 625 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:09,200 and then maybe trying to do like a bit of sort of like we do like we kind of combine things so we 626 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,280 do intense interaction a little bit of intense interaction but maybe like try and put in some 627 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,800 like what i call bucket language you know like you might try and like just mix some therapies 628 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,600 together and create your own little you know absolutely whatever works and the point is if 629 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,880 it's child led then they're going to be motivated by it because they're leading it aren't they and 630 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,680 i think that's where i went wrong today but just know that if you're listening to this and and 631 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:38,720 you think oh my god it's sammy and jordan you um just know that my god do we feel that too you 632 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:46,400 know we're we're out here we putting ourselves out here because we've got the experience and 633 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,120 we've got um we've tried and tested all these things that we've kind of you know we've done 634 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,880 all the hard work we've failed all the time so that hopefully you don't have to as much as we 635 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:03,520 did and still do though and sometimes what i say is very different than what i do in practice 636 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,400 and i and then i watch something back even it might even be my own instagram and i think oh my 637 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:15,840 god yes that's what i should have done today yeah absolutely it does it happens and i think 638 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:22,160 yeah it's it's remembering that it's okay to try different things if it doesn't work it's okay 639 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,680 and you just go back to meet the children where they're at and i think it's that confidence like 640 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:32,320 we said earlier you know if you're something's not working for you and you're a bit nervous 641 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:38,560 about trying something just give it a go and if it works you run with it and if it doesn't it's it's 642 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,840 okay like it's not a failure i feel like it's not a failure is it it's just it's trial and error 643 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:51,200 it's okay you're gonna be my target for this week is just yeah going with them more thinking about 644 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:57,120 it's not a bad lesson it's not because i'm a bad teacher it's just it's just the wrong lesson for 645 00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:03,600 this day or for this time or for this route and yeah going with it that way far more on what 646 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:09,360 motivates them i think that's a lovely way to end this lovely chat thank you so much sammy where can 647 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:15,360 everybody find you and your amazing products well thank you thank you so much for having me on i've 648 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:21,840 loved it i'm also on instagram i'm at spectrum patronum and i have a website and with resources 649 00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:28,640 and pins and some more things coming soon and that's www.spectrumpatronum.com thank you so 650 00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:34,160 much shawd and i've loved it i loved that interview and i can chat to you over and over and over again 651 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,120 but this has been a really yeah this has been a really important conversation i think that 652 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,920 people need to hear almost dispelling the demystifying the belief that some people 653 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:49,680 just have it all worked out and that's just absolutely we're saying absolutely not 654 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:57,920 yeah my plan for tomorrow morning is regulation morning regulation morning and communication 655 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:24,160 and if you get any further then you're an absolute wizard yeah absolutely