Hello everybody and welcome back to another podcast. Today I am rejoined by
my first returning guest today, it's Sammie Spectrum-Potronum on social media
who is a teacher, special education teacher, who shares loads of
things actually but lots of stuff around communication and that was how I found
her back last year and was really taken by her creative approach and doing
things the way I've always thought they should be done but had never been able
to do in my classroom and she was the first guest on my podcast and now is
returning. Hello Sammie. Hi Jordan, thank you so much for having me back on. Of
course, it was actually such a good conversation and I felt like it could
have just kept going and going so I feel like it's only time, it's only right
that we get you back on. We talked a lot about communication, I'd like to talk
about communication again today. It is definitely at the forefront of my mind
this year and has been something that I've been really working hard on and I
feel like even since the last time we chatted lots of things have changed in
that sense in my classroom, mainly from these kind of conversations that I'm
having with these experts and kind of self-reflection in that way and making
those changes. I'm wondering though, has anything changed in your classroom since
we last spoke or what kind of has been your focus this year I suppose? Yeah so
this year it's, I mean I've really pushed with my team modeling, the value of
modeling and even though we know requesting is such an early stage and it
gets the learners in like sort of motivated but we've really been modeling
the commenting and the core language as well has been a big push and I mean it's
just been phenomenal to see. The class I work with are very complex communication
and cognitive or non-speaking and seeing some of these children using like core
vocabulary to create small sentences and advocate for themselves has just been
like that's it's that if I didn't I think I'm so communication based with all our
learning it's always got a communication base and it just motivates me so much
to like find more find more AAC and new things as well, trialing
different devices and stuff. So your class sounds quite similar to mine,
minimally speaking, if they do speak then it's core words or maybe even phrases
that they've learned but ultimately it's minimal speaking. So what does
communication look like in your room? What kind of systems are you using in
your classroom? Yeah so every child has their own either book or device so of
sorts from we have one young person with they're using e-tran frame so it's a
clear frame and we put four items on so we use it as an eye gaze system and
sometimes he might reach to take the take the symbol. Okay. So we go from sort
of that through to like using buttons for more and stop and then other children
who have a huge communication but can are able to like completely navigate it
to communicate so we do have a real mix of levels within our classroom even
though you know they're all non-speaking apart from one child who has
some Gestalt phrases that that he does sort of like whisper every now and then
otherwise that you know you might come in and I think some people might come in
and think oh they're all non-speaking so they all must be at the same level and
actually I've got children making all these amazing sentences and then I've
got other children who I've been working with for four years and we're doing
intensive interaction and we're using the e-tran frame and we're still very
much on the requesting side because that's we're just meeting them where
they're at. Yeah it's so true and sometimes they can be really able in some areas
like maybe physically able really great at climbing or really great at I don't
know you know maybe more gross motor skills maybe but yeah that that doesn't
necessarily correlate into the academic and then also they could be fantastic at
sorting and ordering colors or numbers or the alphabet letters but but they
don't all spiky basically is what I'm saying aren't they is including
including with their speech so yeah of course you know they're all over the
place in some sense. My class is exactly the same I would say we range from those
that are learning to reach out and track objects and notice that their
environment has changed within you know 50 centimeters of them, lights and sounds
you know kind of noticing those and processing those and reacting to those
in you know in a not distressed way is one of the targets you know so that
we're kind of working at that stage and then also yeah sound buttons, iPads,
core boards, symbols and pointing gesture reach objects and references.
Yeah yeah sounds like there's been a good thing added this year actually I feel
like it's such a beautiful in between from that kind of guiding and reaching to
an iPad or a core board I feel like it's it's wonderful for my PMLD learners to
be able to make a choice with and it is high tech I guess you'd call it would
you the sound buttons? Yeah I would say yeah because I just well it's yes tricky
because I see high tech. It's not low tech is it? No yeah because I'd say low tech is all your paper based
yeah and then high tech is anything electronic? Yeah and also it's that cause
and effect as well isn't it I think I would say high tech but yeah it's a good
gateway into exploring isn't it exploring that cause and effect. I think so but it's got that tangible factor.
It's quite nice for our children that have gone from objects of reference that
are incredibly tactile to a sound button it just feels like it with just with
that click or that press and that reaction of immediate sound and that is
physically possible for them to do it independently which is something that
we're really going for is independently making a speech attempt rather than it
being guided or hand-over-hand you know one thing we've moved away from just in
the last few weeks is with our PMLD learners we used to use an iPad to say
good morning and one of my TA's very rightly said why are we guiding them to
press good morning they might not have had a good morning they might not want
to say good morning you know we had a tambourine as well like surely the
tambourine is just enough if they want to touch it they can touch it if they
don't want to they don't like just because that's spoken doesn't mean that's
better and I love that because she's sometimes it just takes someone else to
just question like I know we've always done this but why are we doing this what
for whose purpose is it yes that's a really great question and that's only
been in the last few weeks in my classroom and now we offer the tambourine
or a sound button for good morning and they can do it or they don't do it and
that's their choice and some of them went for the tambourine today and lots
of them were exploring the sound button because it's new and it said good
morning and then that was really exciting and then we got to the afternoon
thought oh no we can't use it we it says good morning and we need to make another
one with good afternoon that's classic isn't it yeah but but it felt it felt so
much more affirming I'm really pleased that she you know had the trust and the
confidence I suppose to bring that up and question you know I know you've
not always done this but why are we doing there absolutely and that's what I
mean I always say to my team I'm like you know what especially if you have if
done a course you're always taught to be a reflective practitioner and then that
needs to continue you know however many years into doing the job things don't
stay the same and you know we all evolve and we we learn different things and we
sort of understand more like body autonomy and all that sort of thing and
one thing that we've really taken on board is rather than hand under over
hand we're doing hand under hand so we're offering our hand especially for
our learners who can't make a pointing finger but they could make a choice out
of lots of things but they they might be hitting and touching like five symbols
so you know offering our hand and then they are able to request using our hand
and actually they've got that choice and we're not you know controlling their
hands they've got that choice and it's and that has worked so well with some of
our learners it's you know really good and that's really interesting what you
said about your one of your support staff because that came up in my school
a couple of weeks ago we had an AAC person come in and we were talking about
how actually for some children in some classes and some settings may only see
a sound button it's a routine it's that routine and we press the sound button in
the morning and it says good morning and that's what the sound button is for and
it may not be used for the rest of the day or like I've got one up by the sink
area to request a drink if in case like you know a child's stuck there and they
don't know what to do so they can request a drink we've got one by the
outside door so they can press to request to go outside and actually I
thought yes you're only using it in certain situations they may think that's
all that it's for it's just that and nothing kind of happens with it like
you've got to put the cause and effect is just the sound totally but it is also
that I suppose them learning that not every time at not every interaction is a
request so it's kind of mixed isn't it but also like I feel like starting with
good morning just seems a bit weird because that definitely isn't the most
important thing for them yeah yeah absolutely like why would we start with
good morning if that's gonna be yeah why why is that the most important time I
guess it's because it's the one that I see most because often you know I've
kind of got two classrooms in a way and they kind of yeah do theirs and I do
often do it so it's a time it's a time when we're all together and I feel like
they want to celebrate the communication and their progress and all of those
kind of yeah yes is why it's happened and a time the no time but yeah I totally
agree that it just seems very odd that that's kind of how it's happened yeah
and we've got finished button as well so we've got finished and good morning
which is a very odd start but we'll get there oh dear I was just saying before
we pressed record that I've had a very overwhelming day today my classroom has
been incredibly loud incredibly loud and not from vocalizations necessarily
although there was a bit of screaming happy screaming it's from AAC stimming
yes so this is new for us because we had two users of AAC that were provided
within a speech language therapist but this week we have amazingly been
provided with proloquo on all of our iPad apps so every single every single
child has got proloquo which is amazing but it also means all starting at once
means all the children are exploring it which is really exciting and they're
really my training yeah right and one of my lads today for the you know his first
day with this iPad and he walked it around and he brought it with him
everywhere and he was typing out he chose to type out what so he can spell
he typed out what his timetable was he's just decided this is what it's gonna be
and everywhere went around the day he was like almost adding it to the list of
what he'd done and then listening to what he'd done that day and then doing
the next thing it was just so beautiful it was wonderful there was so much robotic
sound and you know when they press all the buttons and then hear it all back
yeah but they were all doing it and I so I've been I've been trying to teach over
this the whole time watching me feeling incredibly overwhelmed my staff are
incredibly not wanting to speak over bit it but naturally you you do so it's been
very overwhelming but also in the back of my mind I'm like they're exploring it
it's their voice we can't control it I don't want to be controlling or you know
I don't want to build compliance I want them to have free access but my god
overwhelming so have you found that do you have any tips am I being too loose
with it should there be some boundaries I just need help because my god today was
wild I mean thank you because um I think absolutely agree there's that like
period of time I think when somebody gets access to a device where you have
to have that exploration we explorative phase but the fact that it was all on
the same day must have been extremely overwhelming I'm just like imagining
like being in a toy shop and everything just going off at the same time yeah we
had constipation and bath and toothbrush chat over this side I had animals over
this side I had colors behind me it was just it was a numbers yeah it was all
going on it was very exciting and it was lovely to hear their voice and lovely to
hear what they were choosing to express you know and explore because they very
much were excited about different parts of the yeah but it was yeah I looked at
my team and just I felt bad I felt bad yeah we were all going for this you know
we all know that they need to just explore it and no yeah so a functional
use eventually but yeah absolutely and I think there's probably a sense of
novelty around it as well and whilst exploring something new and having it
all to themselves because in my classroom we have one iPad with grid on
and then I also have like some go talks and then obviously each child has a
paper base a low tech communication aid as well so to share the iPad is quite
tricky so we do often leave it sort of stood up leave it around so that the
children can come and use it as and when and then we are model it use it to model
by learner who's using the e-tran frame for the first time is not it's not one
that's interested in iPads this week he found I just left it up and he just
found some words and quite often on the go talk you'll find the you like the you
and which press you you you you you you over and over and he found it on there
on the iPad as well and then as soon as he found it he was just pressing it
pressing it over and over again listening to that sound and I thought
it's fantastic but again even with him doing that and then I had another shower
with the go talk listening to animal noises so even that was just two devices
so I mean I I don't have much advice on that other than I feel like if it was me
and I think I would and this is this is me coming from somewhere where I know I
could do this it also different settings different like rules but I would kind of
write off the learning the learning would be the exploration and maybe try
to split the children into different rooms and spaces so that they can hear
their own as well so you know maybe like four children taking it to the woods
four children taking it you know to software yeah because then it's sort of
like less overwhelming for everybody but I definitely think there's that
exploration phase which they we they all have to go through and yeah I mean I
yeah I literally just think oh my gosh if my whole class had one I would I yeah
it would be a lot yeah it is and it is a lot and I'm just gonna have to ride it a
bit like our first attention autism session was absolutely chaos and I
thought what am I doing why am I doing this to myself this is never gonna work
it's never gonna work and now it's just so it's so fabulous so I'm really I'm
hopeful and I trust the thing is I trust the system I've seen it with other
children I completely trust the process and I want this to be theirs their voice
and it was actually one of one of the children was using an iPad we lock it
onto the app as well so yeah that's a must lock it onto the app yeah I'd locked
it on to the app and it was the one I was using and this girl had her own one
and she had two of them and I needed one of them because I needed at least one
and then I took it away and I didn't say anything I just said oh mine or whatever
and she said the boys name that used to have one this person's voice because
that's obviously what we say like because that's what we say
Jordan's voice or you know that said this boy's name and I thought oh that's
so funny you know that she's got it and I said oh this is and this is voice you
know this is your voice but it was yeah it was just so it was so wonderful that
she's got it yeah because we've been modeling I guess is what this comes down
to because we've been using that language and modeling that this is then
a very easy transition and because we've been using low-tech core boards it's
also an easier transition for my teaching assistants because obviously
this is amazing technology for them as well and it can be feel quite
overwhelming to learn it so they're learning at the same time as the
children so you know they can stim and choose buttons and go through folders as
well so as we were doing my story all of my teaching assistants had their iPads
and I wanted them to find certain words that I was saying in the story as I went
just just for their own practice you know can you find the animal can you
find it and I was modeling how to find it and they were finding it too and what
was happening is some of the children didn't seem like they noticed but some
of the children did and they were then looking through the folders as well so
yeah it's all it's really new for all of us I feel like it's it's really exciting
it's really exciting it's such an exciting time if any teachers are
listening and thinking how did you get loads of iPads for your room I was
quite sneaky so last year we transitioned from paper-based assessment
to tech-based assessment so we had a load of iPads for for our assessment so
for photos we use ever since but it's a bit like tapestry or ever since evidence
for learning they're all kind of similar take a photo and it gets sent home to
parents and it gets saved and trapped on their levels is kind of what we do so we
needed enough iPads in order to do that and then I thought well we've got all
these iPads you know we could we could buy Proloquo and then you can put for
one payment for one license you can put them on as many iPads as you want so
that's how I managed yeah so that's how I managed to do it was convinced them to
get one license and a load of iPads for the assessment and and yeah and then
we've all got it it unfortunately it means that we all have the same voice it
we all have the same folders but we're just gonna do that navigate that really
carefully and and make that and make it generic enough but also meaningful enough
and kind of go along that way it's better that than nothing and yes that's
how I snuck that in there that's how I managed that one it's been a year in the
making I'm finally done that's great we managed this year to get grid for every
class so I think we paid for 40 40 licenses that's huge that's a lot and it
came out of the communication budget and obviously I'm the communication lead and
I think the finance team were a bit like oh my goodness this is a massive chunk of
your budget and I said that I said if an iPad breaks you know the iPads are under
you know the school scheme so they get them replaced I said if and we can just
move the app move that license whereas if the go talk breaks that's 250 pounds
and it's broken and does it you know that you can't price on the children's
you know you've got tonight no exactly you've got so many hurdles for them to
get their voice whereas everyone else just gets their voice for free it just
seems very unfair to have to jump through so many hurdles in order to get
their voice and I mean obviously at the moment we've got one per class on the
iPads but I'm hoping that you know the next financial year I can buy some more
because we do have two iPads per class and then that'd be another one and then
also sometimes if you prove unfortunately we're in the game of proving
work and proving they can do it you just by having one unfortunately we were in
the game of that and the business of that so hopefully by just even just
having one in the class you can almost prove to speak to language or prove to
the referral prove to the charity whoever you're going to or county that
this is working they do respond to it they do communicate this way they are
choosing this and then evidence it that way and then maybe it can they can then
be referred and then it can be paid for in another way but unfortunately without
that initial test it's really hard to get access yeah I agree with our first
two that what is that was funded originally that was our first two yeah
we had to prove so much that they could do all these things that you can't even
do on an iPod very pecs system actually which is a bit more because that's very
not like what we do now yeah it was very weird we had to prove lots and lots of
things that they were persistent and that over distance and that they could
go to lots of different communication partners and that they could travel with
it and they chose to travel you know all these kind of things actually they all
learn when they have an iPad if it's really because I feel like they you know
they almost needed targets in order to prove their quota and they guys kind of
picked these old-school target communication targets out there it seemed
very odd so it meant that it was a barrier to lots of other access which
we've proved just in day one you know today that actually yeah it's what some
of them are already taking them around to different areas with them because
it's it's motivating to them mm-hmm yeah yeah it's gonna be an interesting
experiment but I know my colleagues gonna struggle who's autistic and very
sound-sensitive so I'm just gonna have to send him a very loving email tomorrow
saying sorry and just remember just stimming and I'm gonna say it's like a
piano they have to be a bit plinky-plonky before and you know we're gonna have to
model and show them how to use it but they will get there and just kind of
saluted and remind my teachers since you know please just go with it you know
next week it will be even more and we'll see the progress and yeah yeah it's yeah
I already had some coming to me saying but do they have to use it everywhere
you know could we just when learning time we take it away and then and then
in stimming time and choosing time then they can have it back and I said
absolutely not that isn't what we're doing here no they have to do it all the
time we'll get there we'll get there but yeah absolutely it's it's definitely
it's just it's it's a learning journey isn't it for everyone I think and having
the your team on board modeling and understanding the value I think and you
know I think you will I think you know everyone will have teething issues
especially like at the beginning but like you said with your attentional
system I think it will just find its rhythm yeah and it'll be interesting
because I think those children in my class that I assumed this is what they
that I saw that they were motivated by the iPad and I've games and things like
that and they were reluctant to use their paper base so we were just model a
lot and then so I thought this child I feel like it's really gonna work
and kind of like not that interested in it so it really shocked me and then
another child who I didn't really have on my radar he has blown with it and has
like wowed me so much that he's the first one that I have referred to try
and get a device for himself because that's the other thing isn't it like we
have it so currently in my school like I said we've all got one iPad with grid on
so that's for each class but then when they go home they have their paper base
and if they're not that motivated by the paper base and can access so much more
language on a device it's like it's that fight to try and get them the AAC that
they they deserve it feels so cruel imagine have only having your voice at
school like it just seems and they'll know in their head like oh if I was at
school right now I could get that particular thing I want but now I'm just
done with this and yeah I can imagine that would that would breed even more
frustration yeah because all of a sudden they're aware I am being understood in
this other environment why aren't you understanding me in this one and it
might I mean some parents do purchase it in the end don't they because they're
convinced and because it works and and they want to encourage our children
which is amazing and it shouldn't again it should have to be like that but that
that is just the reality of the situation isn't it the financial
situation but again I suppose at least if we've got one in school the parents
could also purchase it feeling confident that it's accessible and worth worth the
financial yeah yeah absolutely and I know that there's also different routes
to go down but it's it can be quite hard I think there's a lot due to budgets it's
always to do with money isn't it that it can be you know very hard to get what
the children need so we're currently trying to go through a center and they
they're a charity so hopefully yeah it's we've got a lot of children in our
school nearly 300 pupils and we are we've only just got grid I've been
fighting for a long time to get a more diverse range of AAC products in the
school and it's been a long fight and I think people that I think people who
maybe in the school weren't as on board with it you know trying to get children
away from screens and things like that and I'm like but look at the benefit I
think they've realized and now they've seen how it much has changed some
children's lives and how much communication has come from certain
pupils it's you know it's a real game changer it's a real game changer so yeah
yeah I totally agree I agree they probably it does come from a good place
you know they they want to keep their focus and not dysregulate them you know
lots of children like I have we had it today with the people that was stimming
and exploring on the iPad and then run like the zoomies proper zoomies I can't
explain it proper zoomies into the other room and then back again to listen and
then pressing again and then back into the other room to listen to pure joy but
but incredibly dysregulated and there's absolutely no focus for any of anything
else there so you can see why people seeing that would think well you know
this isn't this can't happen you know he won't be able to learn anything else
naturally is incredibly dysregulated and then and then of course you look at
sensory diet stuff there don't you yeah it's and movement and all of that kind
of stuff around around it and also know you know it might they might not just do
that forever you know it might just not be just stimming all the time as long as
we're modeling what else we could use it for and that's incredibly motivating if
a child has never been able to ask for the certain drink they want before or a
certain play equipment they want before or a certain activity they want before
that's gonna be incredibly motivating once they realize that this square you
know thing that they press can help them access all those things it's just about
showing them that actually you know yes you can stim on it and that's really fun
but look what else it does and then that might be a bit boring.
Yeah and I totally agree like it's about the access and actually as and I find
making individualized communication books really tricky because I think I am
choosing what words you are communicating I am choosing your voice
for you so I often end up getting carried away and this communication book
is like 40 pages and I'm like this child's got to carry around this communication book and I
just want to be able to give them so much opportunity and so much language
within the book that actually a device can hold hundreds of thousands of words
on one device rather than them carrying around like an lever arch file do you know what I mean?
You can be in a situation all of a sudden you need a oh I only did the other day I need a triceratops
you know I can't just go off and print that and make it up yeah but I could search for it and
and within seconds it was on there and we could press it yeah and we had it but there is value
in core words as well there are so many uses and situations where that would be amazing
now you make and sell core boards don't you and with like core board books like communication books
yeah yeah with yeah with core boards on the side yeah a little bit about that and how like how what
it looks like and how it's used and then your why you back that so much because you obviously do
if you're if you're gonna put all the time and effort into making it you know what is it about
a communication book that's having boards absolutely if you obviously with communication books the big
like seller for me is that we can make them for free and obviously what we do is we make a couple
two copies so that there's one that gets sent home because it all it is is printing and laminating
sheets you know that doesn't cost the school that much money we can send one of those home and then
we've got one at school so the parents don't have to panic if they forget to send in their voice for
the day you know that takes that pressure off so we always make two and we make them individualized
we've got always got like core language on one side and then fringe language on the other and
I mean you've got your core program your core vocab program we know the importance of core
language and I think I didn't until I did a course I didn't realize how much core language is so
valuable because it makes up 80% of our daily language and interactions yet it's only 200 words
do we only have 200 core words you know call call that's why core language is so important and then
on the right hand side we have all the fringe language which is you know the other 249 thousand
hundred words in in the English language and actually that's where I get stuck and I go oh
my gosh all I've got is requesting I need to add some commenting on there I need to add some
actions I need to add some places and things like that to try and expand the language and actually
I always make them completely individualized to that child and then we have generic ones as well
that we use to support so all most of the staff at my school have made their own books and I love
this so I started off like a trend so me and my team I've got a team of ladies who are on my
communication team and we all made our own books and we're carrying around our own books and
modeling because we're like you know what we need to model all the time we need to have our own
books and then all the assistants support assistants like oh I love that and then everyone started
getting different straps you know that you can get that carrying it around all the time because I
think that's something we really struggled with as well is pupils like and us prompting the pupils
to take their voice with them when we leave the classroom and I think by staff modeling that it's
supported the pupils doing it because actually some pupils might feel a bit like or they might
feel a bit anxious about taking it out or a bit like maybe a bit isolated I don't know if they're
in a more like in a class maybe with with children who don't use as many communication aids and
having the adults there with them and using them all the time normalizing it as a strategy I think
is so important but yeah a core core going back to core I just when I found out that it was 80%
of our language I do this activity whenever I give training where I give every adult a core
board and I say right you've got two minutes I want you to see how many sentences you can make
with these 30 core words and actually everyone always comes up with so much different so many
different things and that you can use in different contexts but obviously the tricky thing is with
core is that it's not something you can physically see you know drink we know that drink is an easy
one to do drink whereas go what does go look like that's like you can't visualize it anyway
it's not countable and that is where the core language is trickier to teach but so valuable
so yeah big advocate for core yeah I mean clearly I am as I literally talk about it all the time
yeah we had yeah I agree and then you have tabs at the bottom don't you yeah it's easy to navigate
through you know if you're thinking oh my god but there's so many pages actually there's tabs at
the bottom and they've all got their little you know there might be a student one and an outdoor one
absolutely like a sensory one and like a care page so it's easy to find as well feelings spelling
and then the option to I add the option like do you want to write it or type it for those children
who obviously they actually like you said you've got a learner who is able to type yeah and actually
that's having just having access to like a keyboard to be able to type is fantastic
yeah and then I you want to again reduce the barrier don't you you don't want to make you want
to give this really long-winded way of getting what they want because ultimately then they'll
try to take away which sometimes look like unsafe behaviors which sometimes look like
inappropriate behaviors because it just is quicker why would I you know tap all these letters when I
can just fall to the floor and all of a sudden my doubts come running and help me you know
of course they're going to do that why wouldn't you when you have no voice that is how you communicate
so we want to we want to reduce this barrier we don't want to add more barriers so yeah I think
that's great if they type want to type type if they want to gesture and sign gesture and sign
if they want to you know point to pictures they point to pictures all of those things absolutely
and I think that's another thing that we're embracing and that that's something that I'm
supporting my team with is about that total communication approach and actually it's okay
if Sammy goes over to the sink gets a cup and brings you a cup that's amazing that they've
they're requesting a drink but also it's okay if Sammy stands at the sink with the cup and is stuck
and not sure what to do you can then go over and prompt to you know prompt by using um we we have
like drink symbols to be removed also a button and I've also now recently put up a talking panel
and that has six buttons on it and it's like drink wash hands because like you know if they've got
sticky hands from sensory play cereal these are all their like favorite snacks as well because
we do allow our children to snack throughout the day um you know all they I we always want them to
feel um that they can request those sorts of things and actually it's just about that like
that like recognizing where you can support the children but it's like allowing allowing them if
they're working on creating a sentence that's okay but it's the locating them just to hand you a
part and I think sometimes some of you know some of my support staff have struggled with that
because they're like oh but their target is to make a sentence yeah and it's like that's fine you can
extend that you accept you can you accept that form of communication go over help them with
help them with a drink and then model that I want drink or I'm thirsty is something else we're
trying is not is moving away from just like I want so like I'm like labeling how we're feeling I'm
thirsty I need a drink so yeah yeah it's so true and again it comes down to modeling doesn't it
and absolutely also understanding that in certain situations or on certain days children will be
able to access language and not access language so when a pupil is dysregulated for example they're
communication abilities will reduce massively I have a people that's incredibly I mean really
quick on the AAC it's been doing it for a couple of years now incredibly quick but when dysregulated
can't even make a choice of objects just loses all ability or want ability I suppose to to be
able to communicate in that way he just needs us to make those decisions for him and and and do
that for him because he can't make choices he can't look at photos symbols is it is just too
much too overwhelming yeah and it's it's not that he can't it's just that you can't right now and
I think yeah that's also something as well isn't it and it might not be as big or as obvious as
that with your learners it might just be they might be seemingly okay and and actually exactly
they're just a bit tired or actually they've been doing it all day and they just want a drink you
know it's not and every opportunity is absolutely it's an opportunity to stretch them sometimes
they just want a drink so I think that's great what you just said is do the thing give the thing
and then what they could do yeah we have people in our class who self-harm and self-harm to
communicate so self-harm to get wrapped or self-harm to get access to a chair or gets access to a thing
or it is communication it would be awful for us while she's punching herself in the head
to go and get her aacy model what she wants yeah or give her a choice would be even worse yeah but
even just modeling the sentence like while she's punching something obviously we're not going to
do that so we absolutely see what she's doing we give her what she needs and then we show her
a safer alternative way that she could have asked for that you know and in the hope that
oh that won't hurt me maybe I'll do that you know is the hope but yeah absolutely yes of course we
want her to do that but ultimately it's about meeting their needs first isn't it and honoring
that communication absolutely and what you just said there is something we completely honor in
our class as well and across our school it's regulation before communication I know we know
communication is so important and obviously behavior is a form of communication I just
and I you know we whenever we have behavioral communication training across school we always
say at the end of the day if they are dysregulated in any way then that the first thing to almost go
is is is that communication the ability to communicate effectively or in their way that
they would when they're regulated because they are no longer regulated so you absolutely need you take
your priority is that regulation not the learning not the teaching of communication within that moment
exactly and I spoke to a speech and language therapist only last week and it was amazing how
much we spoke about sensory circuits sensory diet sensory integration because it's not separate
it's so interwoven into communication so interwoven if they don't if they aren't regulated they cannot
communicate so of course speech and language therapists are going to spend a lot of their time
regulating children so that they can communicate it just makes sense but
but listening to her and all of her you know methods are incredibly occupational therapy
you know looking and sounding and yeah of course of course they are but you know I was taken aback
by that thinking yeah yeah of course we have to do it all we all have to do it all
whereas I thought it was oh I'm a special education teacher but I'm also this and I'm also that and
it's like we're all are we all are because without one you can't do the other and vice versa yeah so
I just I just thought that was an interesting um thing that I got out of our conversation last
week was yeah what you've just said is is that regulation is is key isn't it in all of it
absolutely yeah it's it's one of those things that it underpins it underpins everything and
I mean we we're always changing our timetable I quite often get asked online like about my
timetable and how my day looks like yeah often it's really hard to because we change it sometimes
daily basis or like we're like day to day it's depending on what the children need and at the
moment we're getting a lot of children coming in just regulated and after they're transitioning
to school and we just have we are closing the blinds we've got our led like calming lights on
we've got we've got their favorite things out and a lot of people come in and be like oh is this just
a morning choose session yes it is a morning choose session because we are regulating because
if we come in now and I'm like right let's go and do some story massage and let's go and do intense
interaction it's not going to be a positive interaction what we need to prioritise here is
getting ourselves regulated and ready to learn because otherwise we're not going to have a great
day exactly it's still just as valuable isn't it I think it doesn't have to look like table paperwork
no I think something that special education teachers do really well actually that learning
can be in the corridor learning can be outside of the field learning can be on choosing time in fact
we get the best communication at choosing time and golden time or whatever you want to call it
there are some of our best moments in the toilet like some of our best learning and most important
learning moments for independence so just because it isn't called English or maths or communication
or problem solving whatever you want to call it doesn't mean that there's not learning happening
because actually some of the most important lessons for our learners happen around those
subject areas the subject areas are kind of the fluff really actually it's about care needs it's
about teaching independence about teaching communication teaching about to advocate for
their sensory needs and regulation you know all of those things it has to be and we're constantly
we're constantly saying we meet care needs first and then we learn and sometimes some weeks we've
just met their care needs actually and that is okay absolutely and I see it in a lot of new
teachers in special needs that they come to our school like I said we're quite a big we're quite
a big send school we're primary we've got 34 classes across the school and I quite often see
them all trying to fit in there five lots of English five lots of maths topics and I'm like
it's okay you're allowed to prioritize their regulation and communication like those basic
needs like doing a breakfast plug because one of they because they might be hungry or didn't
eat breakfast or got up too late or whatever but I think it's I think that does come with time
as it's a confidence thing I think like eight years ago when we started I think if whenever
um we needed just the children just needed this next session just for calming and like
management would come in I would be like this and I remember the heads at the time would come in and
go it's okay I can see turn taking going on over there it's okay I can see a child learning to
independently regulate over there they're meeting their sensory needs and it was always like
thank goodness because you know in your heart of hearts you are doing the right thing for your
class and for those children you get that fear I think whereas now I would happily come in and I
wouldn't worry who comes into my classroom and if they think nothing's happening I could I feel like
I could write a target for anything going on in my room and I feel but that I do feel like that is
something that comes with a bit of confidence isn't it oh is you an experience that's it yeah
it's it's hard I think at first because I think you're like oh my gosh I need to do all of this
stuff exactly yeah it does it's also trial and error isn't it like lots of my what some people
would call in between kind of time like choice time and interaction maybe and physio we just
put it in the timetable as a lesson so physio isn't extra physio is p for example yeah communications
from the speech and language talk you know their target communication targets from the speech
language therapist aren't extra or additional they're embedded in in the lesson and it just
makes it so much easier their ip targets aren't extra they're things we're already doing because
otherwise it's just extra work for yourself so I think that comes with time as well doesn't it
of well that why are we doing two things when actually we could just do one the visual impairment
targets that come from a guy that visits once a year is embedded in is embedded in their
communication targets science today looked very much like intensive interaction and math looks
very much like you know they were sorting and organizing but we were doing organizing of a
sensory circuit really you know we were in that kind of stage and all of these things it doesn't
have to be extra when you're seeing all the you know the core like people saying how does the core
but how does he fit it into your timetable like it's english it's just english like it isn't
it's just english or it can actually be any of those things it could be creative it could be
you know probably you know again we've got the luxury of it's very cross-curricular we can fit
it in yeah we can call it whatever um yeah so yeah well think about the needs first of your
children and then name it what you want rather than thinking of the subject name and trying to
fit the children's needs to absolutely i was just about to say the same thing actually i said on my
timetable like i used to put on like maths and things but actually the unit like the phase of
teaching that i'm in at the moment i have a mix we all have mixed age groups so we have mixed and we
have created individualized bespoke curriculum for these children and we don't do maths in english
you know it's broad like my thinking and it could be like curiosity program and you know intensive
interaction and different things like that but then we've got looking after myself and my body
and it's just about it some lessons my team are like oh what does this fall under and i say it
could fall under absolutely everything right now because well look we're making sentences using our
communication device we're writing but we're also but they're also using their hands i was like so
that's also fine but you know you can actually walk in absolutely they're being independent
they're learning to they're like they're like tolerating others near them but they're also
being curious about x y and z you can kind of then it that is that holistic learning and it's just more
valuable i think when you like you're saying about like the targets and and also the lessons and how
if you just think about what that child needs and then it kind of just in our in our in my class
anyway it kind of just it just kind of fits and create you create your own little world so i no
longer put up like lessons it's just like i love those titles i really love them it makes it so
much more meaningful doesn't it and focus to what you're actually doing i feel like like we still
use general subject names i mean we're attached to mainstream school they're obsessed with it
um but yeah by calling it science it sets a an idea in my team's head of what it should look like
i feel whereas looking after myself can still be science it's all about biology it's all about
the country or psh even you know it can be all of these things but it also sets an idea of
the purpose looking after myself is important for these learners that's why we're doing it
that's the why it answers his own questions doesn't it yeah absolutely and it's like you know
i might write for my thinking i kind of write a maxi and an englishy target so it might be something
about the story that we're doing about engaging with the story and then building attention with
an act with and it's i make it very vague because i'd rather it us not be able to build attention to
one thing can we do it in different contexts etc and i think like you know when we do we at my
class absolutely love story massage so we do story massage most days because they they just engaged
with it and they love it i just it's stories i yeah i i and i love right i love writing them as well
we're doing three little pigs at the moment so i just wrote one about three little three little pigs
and they are absolutely loving it but i'm like that's also my body it's about like you know they
get to choose which body part and it's all about like you know and body autonomy and also they can
say yes and we always ask them obviously and they say yes and no it's about that interaction it's
so it's like a conversation it's a physical conversation and so actually our four areas
of learning it covers my thinking because it's about stories it covers looking after myself
because it's about their body autonomy it covers my body because they're learning about their
body parts and how like the different strokes might feel on their foot to their hand and also
my communication because they're able to you know to interact with the book and then also choose
body parts through through communication and also say yes and no or stop at any time and i just
think that's what like the holistic learning is all about really and i feel like the lessons where
i do strip it back like that do one thing and repeat it often i'm sure you repeat that often
as well with those lessons they're a joy to create for example for because you're thinking
of your learners when you're creating them so it is an absolute joy and a really excited to share
it with them but the actual lesson is an absolute joy as well because it's completely at their level
of understanding it's completely tailored to them without making it seem like i'm going to teach a
lesson now and then being disappointed when they can't access that or when it feels a little bit
chaotic or when they're running in and out i was subject to that today you know i'm going to hold
my hands up i was really trying hard to teach i can't be wrong but i was trying to teach it was
something like sequencing with patterns and it was on the whiteboard and i wanted them to sit in a
horseshoe shape and take turns on the whiteboard and then and they were all running in and out
and they were using their aac to stim and it was all a little bit crazy and thinking about it now
it was because i was expecting them to do it the school way academic way and actually there were
so many better ways so many better ways to teach sequencing of colors and sorting of colors that is
their way that is their toys or their colors or their maybe some people might be doing on the
ipad some people might be doing outside some people might doing it with little dolls and toys
and that they'd have been far more motivated by that and i wouldn't have been feeling overwhelmed
or you know whatever and disappointed that it didn't work out and all of those kind of things
actually if we go with you know how is this how are they going to be motivated by this are they
going to enjoy this is this going to be inviting to them i always say if a lesson doesn't work well
or if they don't want to join if they're not choosing to join a lesson or engage in lesson
it's because your lessons plans rubbish yeah and i'm subject and i'm subject and i'm yeah i hold
my hands up that was me today my lesson wasn't interesting to my learners it would have been
interesting some it wasn't interesting my learners it wasn't meeting their sensory needs it wasn't
me it wasn't inviting to them it wasn't motivating to them so then i was left they had a lovely time
but i was left feeling deflated and disappointed and oh that didn't work what am i going to do and
you know i'm the worst teacher you know all those kind of things you think and actually it wasn't
it was just the wrong lesson plan for my career and that and that is what it is don't you find
that like i do that every now and then and i don't know why i just i might see something online
another teacher's done and i go oh that's such a lovely idea or i'll speak to another teacher at
my school and i think i'm gonna try that and i sit there and i literally just look at my support
staff like what am i even what am i doing because i'm like i'm trying to maybe do something that i
think well they would enjoy but they it's either not engaging or they don't have the attention for
and actually it is about you know that that's like that teacher like you kind of getting back into
that teachery sometimes i don't feel like a teacher that's what i say to people i often don't feel
like a teacher because we do one circle time a day and that's for snack because we actually
don't do good morning circle anymore we just do snack and sometimes if we're regulated enough
i'll try and do a sensory story a very quick sensory story because we we struggle to attend
in our and we have a horseshoe table because my children do something to lean on and then they've
got their like if they're set on a pole they've got they've got like a bit of more stability
but actually if they get up and leave long gone are the days where i've like oh let's try and get
them back i'm like they're disengaged they're not interested they're communicating to me this is
boring or i'm not interested so actually using that child led like you said like you know meeting
them at their level and saying oh actually this child loves bricks let's do flatten through brick
and it's that again and it comes for me it comes back to that modeling you know within their space
and then maybe trying to do like a bit of sort of like we do like we kind of combine things so we
do intense interaction a little bit of intense interaction but maybe like try and put in some
like what i call bucket language you know like you might try and like just mix some therapies
together and create your own little you know absolutely whatever works and the point is if
it's child led then they're going to be motivated by it because they're leading it aren't they and
i think that's where i went wrong today but just know that if you're listening to this and and
you think oh my god it's sammy and jordan you um just know that my god do we feel that too you
know we're we're out here we putting ourselves out here because we've got the experience and
we've got um we've tried and tested all these things that we've kind of you know we've done
all the hard work we've failed all the time so that hopefully you don't have to as much as we
did and still do though and sometimes what i say is very different than what i do in practice
and i and then i watch something back even it might even be my own instagram and i think oh my
god yes that's what i should have done today yeah absolutely it does it happens and i think
yeah it's it's remembering that it's okay to try different things if it doesn't work it's okay
and you just go back to meet the children where they're at and i think it's that confidence like
we said earlier you know if you're something's not working for you and you're a bit nervous
about trying something just give it a go and if it works you run with it and if it doesn't it's it's
okay like it's not a failure i feel like it's not a failure is it it's just it's trial and error
it's okay you're gonna be my target for this week is just yeah going with them more thinking about
it's not a bad lesson it's not because i'm a bad teacher it's just it's just the wrong lesson for
this day or for this time or for this route and yeah going with it that way far more on what
motivates them i think that's a lovely way to end this lovely chat thank you so much sammy where can
everybody find you and your amazing products well thank you thank you so much for having me on i've
loved it i'm also on instagram i'm at spectrum patronum and i have a website and with resources
and pins and some more things coming soon and that's www.spectrumpatronum.com thank you so
much shawd and i've loved it i loved that interview and i can chat to you over and over and over again
but this has been a really yeah this has been a really important conversation i think that
people need to hear almost dispelling the demystifying the belief that some people
just have it all worked out and that's just absolutely we're saying absolutely not
yeah my plan for tomorrow morning is regulation morning regulation morning and communication
and if you get any further then you're an absolute wizard yeah absolutely