Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for
everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled
pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions
and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello and welcome to another podcast episode. This week we are joined by Lisa from Peachy
Speech. She's a speech and language therapist that I have been following for about six or seven years
now. Out of all of the guests we've had on the podcast, I think she's the one that I've been
following the longest. I've definitely put on the pressure for her to come on today. I've been liking
her for a few months now to come on because I love all of her posts and everything she's about.
Hello Lisa. So I said you're a speech and language therapist. There's so much diversity to that,
isn't there? And how you specialise and who you work with. So do you want to explain a little bit
about who you work with and how you do that? Yeah, sure. So I'm a speech and language therapist
and I work privately or independently now. So I used to work for the NHS and yeah I support
lots of different needs. So it might be children who are going on an unusual language development
journey or finding communication difficult developmentally. I support children with
fluency and stammering or speech clarity issues. So quite often as our little ones edge towards
being like nursery and school age, we notice that they're saying a lot of stuff that it's really
hard for us to understand what they're saying. And it's because they're mixing up a lot of the
sounds that they're using within their sentences. So I would help unpick which sounds they're using,
which ones they're not using and kind of support them to increase their sound system. And then I
support a lot of children who are autistic and are finding their voice and finding their communication
methods that works for them. And I do that all through play. So all of my therapy is play based.
And yet no matter what a child's need is, I look at a way that we can layer in connection and play
and regulation as part of our therapy. That's amazing. It just sounds like the best job in the world.
It is. I get to play and hang out with kids and support them. Yeah that's exactly it.
What age range do you work with? Is there like a limit or do you get to work?
No, not really. There's not really a limit. So most of the children that I work with are
kind of year two and below, I would say. And actually that's, it's almost happened
accidentally over time that those kind of preschool years are where a lot of the children found me.
That's really great though because I spoke to an early years teacher last week who was saying about
the huge need to speak to language. In fact it was one of the main concerns was how every single
year it seems to be getting poorer, their speech and language. Even children that don't seemingly
have a cognitive delay or a disability or neurodiversity are still finding that their
speech and language is really poor when they come to nursery and and perception depending on,
she was saying depending on their previous experience of school settings and nursery settings
and things. Is that what you're finding as well? Is that a national worldwide thing and what do
you think the reason is? Yeah I think it's a really complicated combination of factors. I think a huge
part of it is access to services. So my very first role as a speech and language therapist was
within the NHS as part of what was called the early intervention team and we used to go in
to children's centres and nurseries and run like free groups for parents with like babies and
toddlers to go to and talk about like talking to your baby, talk to your bum. We were on like
maternity wards supporting parents before they even became parents to understand the importance of
those early language stages and how you can feed language into those routine activities with your
children and how going to the park can be a communication activity and doing your food shop
can be a communication activity and there's not those services aren't available anymore so
like that that team that I worked with doesn't exist anymore and children's centres don't exist
in the way that they they used to and I think it's harder for families to access that information
before there is a delay and before there is support that's needed and I think it was the first
service to get shut down because it wasn't seen as essential but actually then what happens is
you have this knock-on effect where then we have children arriving at school without a way of
communicating with us and we go oh gosh like now we need a lot of support in schools.
It's a classic example isn't it of like them obviously needing to save money and wanting to
save money on something but it still costs them probably the same or if not more down the road and
we're seeing that a lot in adult services as well aren't we they're cutting over here but
actually it's causing spending over here it kind of seems like a domino effect and that is a classic
example of what you've said you're stopping these early interventions of when all of these things
could be found out I mean tongue ties and things like that also I'm sure you'd be picking up on
those and picking up on stammers and and all sorts and autism and all kind of things that parents
might necessarily not realise so if you're not seeing it there then that's a lot of pressure on
nurseries and the UIFS is to pick out those those things and to get them on the pathway and to get
the paperwork done whereas actually it could have been started years before. Yes yeah I love how you
explain that then because you're right it is at home but you're absolutely right it is because
of the lack of support and if they don't know what to do then how could it be done any differently
and I do worry hearing you that you know that only stopped a few years ago and already we're
seeing the impact and I feel like we're going to see a generational impact there aren't we of
you know the parents now had those early interventions when they were young so they
had a childhood of that I would like to think but then the children now never even had it as children
so when their parents they wouldn't even know what it looks like or what it sounds like you know and
I feel like there's gonna be a generational gap there of how to interact and teach communication
to your children. Yeah and I think it's the we're we're parenting now in in a different world where
there's a mixture and a balance of working and parenting and technology and play and have we got
enough of this and enough of this and do your reading and but do your homework online that's on
the computer but don't use screens too much but use them to regulate if your child needs to regulate
and and I think one of the things that I talk to parents so often about is about blame and the blame
that parents carry when there's when there's a difficulty and when a child is struggling with
something I think our automatic reflex is to go what have I done wrong like how did I miss this
how have I not managed to support that and I think it's so important such an important message to
to share with families that you you aren't the cause of a delay you don't you don't cause a
difficulty as parents we and as humans we have like an inbuilt kind of motivation to connect and
communicate with our children all those like ridiculous noises and faces that you make at
your babies or any baby that you see that's that's nature's way of going look show your baby how
important your face is and how your intonation rises and falls and how you know they can copy
that with their o's and their r's and that's that's an early conversation and it's so when
a child needs more than that that doesn't mean that you haven't done enough yes that means that
you did everything that came to you instinctively and and your child needs something different
their brain works in a different way their access in communication and the world around them
slightly differently and you need someone that's trained and qualified to help you work out what
that way is and they have done the right thing they're filled in the paperwork they've gone
through the pathway and they've come to find you and you said that people have probably waited a
really long time you and you said and when we spoke before you said lots of your the people that
employ you are our parents they're paying carefully for it you know they're going above
they're going above and beyond to help their children and they're doing everything i mean even
even the families that aren't able to do that right actually are will still be trying they'll
hopefully still be following accounts on instagram and watching social media things and kind of
frantically googling things you know i know that yeah families are more often than not like working
as hard as they can to put as much support in place absolutely and we see it in our dms all
the time don't we you know parents that are just seeking answers trying to put it all together
whilst they're waiting so many of my messages start with so we've been on the waiting list
for 18 months and i'm just trying to work i'm just trying to put things in place whilst we're
waiting so many thoughts like that and i just think wow it's amazing i mean what a lucky child
to have such dedicated parents that are willing to just piece things together and do you know
the work i mean they shouldn't have to should they but they are and yeah the parents are incredible
and i think similarly for you that's that's why i started my account on on instagram was that there
i could just i could see that there was this big gap in in provision and in service and i had this
knowledge that i was happy to like give to people because a lot of the things that i suggest aren't
like magic or expensive or kind of mind-blowing they're quite simple things that actually through
kind of knowledge and practice and rehearsal and tweaking like they work they work really
really effectively and it feels almost unfair to have this like very simple set of things that
that you could add to your life and not to get out it's exactly it felt it felt criminal to
have this knowledge like you say of simple techniques and tips and strategies just just
that i've picked up over the years you know it's not that i went to autism school or anything i
just picked them up over the years and you know you work with different therapists and things and
you just pick stuff up don't you yeah yeah i mean i trained as a mainstream teacher you know the
people say what was your um what did you train in you know how did you get so knowledgeable it
literally is working with people like you it's working with occupational therapists and
and speech and language therapists and physios and other colleagues and my teaching assistants
that have so much experience other parents foster carers all of those people just getting
and asking questions and getting yeah all of this but then when you do it for that long then you
gain quite a lot don't you that's the thing as well i think is that um for you and i i think
it's like it's more than a job isn't it it's a it's a real passion and say you do absorb stuff
because you ask questions and you read and you go oh i saw this today and i'm going to find now
find out everything about it yeah well it well it is my special i don't know how i can integrate
that into all other parts of my therapy now so this is the neurodiversity in us as well isn't
it i feel like well that's where it really plays into its own because it definitely is my special
interest and i feel like people will see my account and think you know teachers shouldn't have to work
that hard teachers shouldn't have to put in all these hours teachers shouldn't have to pay for
the things for their class like no no no they shouldn't and i actually don't have to i don't
need to i want to because this is my special interest this is my you know hobby almost as
well as a job it is kind of intertwined in a way and i feel like when you work with children in
the way that we do it's really difficult for it to not just like it can't just be a job it is so
much more when you work with the children and when you work with the families and you feel the
impact that you're having it drives you to just do more and i only have 10 children in my class and
yeah it just feels criminal to have this knowledge that i've built over the last few years like and
same for you as well and it only goes to 10 children just was just it just isn't enough for me
when i'm watching a failing system i'm seeing these awful documentaries and tiktok videos about
these and messages about these awful interventions that i'm so against there has to be another voice
there has to be another option because the parents that we were talking about before they're
innocently looking for answers while waiting we'll find these videos and think let's try it and it
can be really harmful to children and yeah but the videos look like it is a magic wand and the
problem is these therapies do work because they do fix behaviors and help children to speak but
to the detriment of mental health. I think you've got to look at the cost because you can learn
anything if you're willing to give up everything and i think that's the difference for when you're
doing neurodiversity affirming therapy is that you're not willing for i'm not willing for
for this skill progression to cost you your emotional well-being. Yes even if it takes longer
even if we have to try 20 different things in order to get there eventually you know even if
actually it doesn't even happen in my time with you and i think that's the real cause i think
when you work with autistic children and disabled children actually they're incredibly vulnerable to
being compliant and controlled because it comes with the rigidity of how their brain works you
know they see patterns and they quite like the black and white of yes and no this is right this
is wrong and i think we need to be really we need to have been really aware of our responsibility
with that power almost i definitely see have seen it in my classes over the years adults coming in
with seemingly good intentions but actually finding that the control and compliance side of
things maybe feels a trigger or a trauma in their own experience in their own background you know i
don't know where that comes from but i'm sure that was kind of something in their background and and
i've had to kind of pull the plug and say yeah this this job isn't for you because i could see
what was happening that seemingly on the surface the child was being compliant and yeah and behave
manage they were managing behaviors and looked like a good relationship almost in a way but
quite a reliant relationship and actually what was happening was it was incredibly toxic and
controlling and compliant and mask a lot of masking going on there and i could just see
that that isn't something that i want to have in my classroom it's such a huge shall we talk about
masking it's such a huge thing to be aware of and i find myself questioning it like in everything i
do at the moment i think as i work is is thinking about am i teaching this child a new skill or am
i teaching them how to really effectively mask what they wish they could really do
and just really checking in with myself about whether what what we're working on and what are
what my hopes from the activity is is beneficial for this child or is it beneficial for like
everyone else around them because actually it means that they're like conforming or they're
behaving in a more neurotypical way and i think it's even as someone who i consider myself to be
very neurodiversity affirming it's still i think it's important to always have that in the
forefront of your mind like what's the what's your what's your motivation for this for this activity
or for this interaction and if you find yourself going actually it's it's because that will help
like the class work better or actually it's because that will be less disruptive for assembly time
then you've really really got to stand back and go then that's not right that's not that's not
what we want to teach this child because later on they're going to have to unlearn that in order to
get back in tune with themselves and what feels right and i think so often if we let children
guide us in terms of regulation what their body needs what feelings they're getting what feedback
they're getting from their environment they actually do a really beautiful job of regulating
themselves and it's us as the people in their environment that kind of get in the way of them
doing that and then they're dysregulated and we wonder why you know we're not getting activities
done or behavior is is tricky for us within that environment it is because we've stopped them
spinning and so now they're throwing things all around us and we're not getting them to do
anything about them and that's actually more tricky but why did we stop them spinning because
actually they were regulating themselves in the first place i've got a question actually
we're already doing they were already doing exactly what their body needed and it wasn't hurting
anybody and it was it wasn't inappropriate and so i've got i always get questions about spitting
and this is how i feel about spitting spitting doesn't hurt anybody at all actually and it's
dangerous and it's actually maybe a very good way of meeting a sensory need you know writing with
spit on windows or whatever you know you're not hurting anybody but adults find it absolutely
repulsive and it's one of the main things i get that they want to stop and i'd say i'm like yes
i i offer things like i don't know what like washing up liquid mixed with water is a great
thing to draw with that feels like spit if they like it dripping maybe try slime water play writing
in water there are lots of different things that you can try but are you seeing that as the main
is that actually the main behavior or are you seeing it the main behavior because it's affecting
you most is it affecting them most or is it affecting you most and i feel like is that
actually where we want to start what is it what in their being is affecting them most i bet you it
isn't spitting i bet you it isn't i bet you that isn't the biggest thing in their life to help them
with i bet maybe it's actually adding in communication or adding in more sensory regulation and you know
what with those things they might stop spitting actually yeah i am talking about communication i
would i would want a lot more information about what the spitting is communicating to us because
because it could be that they want something to feel with their fingers but actually maybe it's
the sensation within their mouth and so actually we need to look at is this a child that like needs
access to drinks more often is this a child that needs like ice to crunch in between meals is this
a child that needs more water play that's safe for them to take or are they sitting at someone else
which is communicating go away get out my space i don't want you to be near me right the spitting
actually away of them going please give me more space this is a it's too noisy in here and i
don't i don't know how else to tell you that i wish i was by myself if that is the point if that is
what it is then that's the most important thing they don't feel safe in their space that's the
big thing that's the thing that we want to actually work on it's not the spitting the spitting is
almost a it's a fringe behavior it's a tiny it's a very superficial part of the behavior that
actually if we if we can dig away in quite a deep way i think what to uncover when are we doing it
how have we got to this point i think is is kind of where i always kind of chatter people about
if you're going into schools aren't you or they're coming to your home
and i'm sure a parent or a teacher will say to you oh they're doing this no what does that mean and
and how would you work that out because you're only working with them so often do you have kind
of observations in the way what how do you do it to determine why i suppose so i think i talked to
teachers and parents about being being a detective really for any behavior so actually looking at
um if they can keep a note or track kind of when it's happening how often it's happening what
the situations it's happening in so if it was spitting kind of i'd say like or in the next week
you just jot down like all the all the times that it happens so that we can see like how frequently
it is because especially for a tricky behavior sometimes we can feel like it's happening all
the time and actually when we note it down we're like oh it's three times in a in like a full
in like a full school day i mean the explosion afterwards with everyone else responding to this
fitting took a long time and took a lot of our day but it but it was only three times and we
thought it was like every 20 seconds i think sometimes that helps just break down that that
barrier of how huge the problem feels but i find knowing what time and what else is going on around
that child usually cues me into okay it's interesting that it's always after lunch or
it's interesting that it's always after that child has eaten or it's interesting that it's always
when they come in from being outside maybe their mouth feels dry or maybe they're overwhelmed by
the cloakroom and you can start to kind of unfold yes the story a little bit more from that and then
to put the what to put in place then yeah don't you that gives a bit more of a clue rather than
stopping the spitting like that's not our focus then it's yes yeah it's not the main that would
that's just an an after effect maybe if if that comes to if we actually if we've got the right
why if we've done it right if we've got you know if we've been a good detective then and we give
them a different time to go to lunch or a different time to come in or a different way of entering the
building or a way of asking for space or whatever it is whatever our reason is then we will see a
reduction in spitting if we've done that first bit right yeah but not straight away yes that's
what's really tricky is that one or two strategies will not change things straight away i would say
it usually takes between seven and ten days doing something really consistently um obviously not to
the child's detriment if you start something and you see that they're really upset by that strategy
then i wouldn't say power through for something i would say stop immediately
what can happen is that we can we can start a couple of strategies and they can not not really
make a difference so we kind of swap in a different one and then we change to another one and then we
go oh none of the strategies are working so we just stop but actually what's tricky is we're
working with children that thrive on consistency but also dislike change often so a new strategy
is change and actually for it to become a consistent part of how their day works we have to
work with them in making it feel safe and making it feel not new and making it feel
not only when it's really really really needed but all the time so something like using a visual
schedule don't just use it when they're looking like they're becoming dysregulated use it when
they're regulated to use it all the time i was talking about this before christmas actually with
someone um and we were talking about having time out of the classroom when things were getting
really busy um everyone's sensory load was very bushy over christmas obviously
um and i was suggesting some things that they they could try but then i was saying don't try them when
when they're already upset because otherwise they've not had a chance to understand that that's
supportive you need to play them you need to play the games and play the activities at a time where
they're already rested and settled and feeling really positive about being at school in the classroom
and tell them like oh these are going to help our body feel so nice while we play these activities
and then as they're getting upset at another time you can go you know that box of things that helped
our body feel nice it looks like you might need those should we go and do that and then they've
already got that that kind of pre-learn experience of oh yeah that box is good like let's go and do
that because that's gonna help me feel better it's not so obvious when you say it like that because
when we're feeling dysregulated if my husband came and offered me like oh it looks like you need this
brand new thing that i bought when you get like no i definitely did can you imagine like no wonder
the kids are like no obviously not like what are you putting in and then they're autistic and they
don't like new change either like let's just think about the layers here let's think about what we're
asking our children to do here they've never seen a strategy before it looks like a demand you know
let's not put extra demands on anything like this we've got all of these layers on all of those possible like pda
yeah and even if they haven't got pda when you're feeling dysregulated you don't want extra demands
it comes from anxiety often so that's just going to bring more challenge more pressure and more
language and things actually we kind of just want less when we're dysregulated but we know that
when children are dysregulated that their their brains aren't in a learning state they're in this
fight flight freeze mode yeah and so actually if we're then trying to teach them a new strategy
to support this dysregulation their brain's not ready for it and actually any language that we use
any props that we use any symbols that we use are going to be are going to add to that overwhelm
rather than support it so i think yeah the pre-teaching and the rehearsal and the practicing
of of these kind of strategies is really important definitely and practicing at the level that they
can access when they're dysregulated as well because i find lots of my children i don't know
maybe they use an ipad to communicate typically in a day when they're regulated and that's great
but we also need to be practicing photos and sound buttons and objects too because when they're when
this particular children i'm thinking about is dysregulated it's absolutely no way he could access
his talker on his ipad yeah because he can't like he he seems to it's not even object reference
it's not even symbols it's not even photos he goes right back to just needing an object not even
choices either he goes right back to where he was you know five years ago of yeah tell me what i
need to show me what i need no language and give it to me and then we'll go and do it together and
that's what he needs and i think we need to remember that as well when they're regulated is also
don't if they've moved on don't stop don't stop using the sound buttons and the objects and the
photos have it all have it always because you'll find that that's comfort and that's understandable
when they're in that dysregulation isn't it there are so many points in i'm just thinking about like
the academic year there are so many points in the academic year where i talk to staff and where
i i know and expect the children that i support are going to be starting to get wobbly there are
there are really key times kind of across the year and it they're very frequent key times but it's
when their their capacity for all that they have to do all the time very actively just runs out and
so quite often staff will will be worried that children are losing skills or they're they're
showing signs of regression and and they're worried about um you know they they used to need all of
this stuff at the start of term and you know we've worked we've worked so hard and and now you know
it's it's all we're you know they they're not coping again and it's it's because we know gradually
over the term you've kind of taken away all of those supports because they were doing well
they could cope but actually you know they they just need it back and it's it's not that they've
lost skills it's that other other factors are in play now and so they're full and they they need
they need you to help them um yeah that's right i spoke to an author a few weeks ago on the podcast
who explained it as a cup so when they come we can't see their cup their cup is invisible but
sometimes when they come into school their cup is already really really full and they can only they
only have a little little little bit of space and then a child makes a bit of noise and then there's
a supply teaching assistant in and we're a bit late for for register and their cup is full and
they dysregulate whereas the day before maybe they had a really good sleep and the morning went
smoothly because i don't know mom and dad were home i don't know you know like they had their
breath i don't know every whatever it is that went well and then they come into school and their cup's
only an inch full and actually they've got lots of capacity so all those same things happen in the
day but they've still got a space to manage that and i think that's a really lovely visual of that
invisible cup because we don't know i mean sometimes schools have home school books and that's
fantastic if parents are engaging with that talking about sleep and if they've been under the weather
if their change has happened if grandma's picking them up from school you know all these things
actually really important for a school to know and reverse as well same at home for them to know
what's happened at school maybe they had a photo day or maybe they had a different teacher that
day whatever didn't have peer that day it's really important because it just lets us know
how full their cup might be and what they can manage and cope with when they get into that
next environment absolutely and i think sometimes there can be like a delayed knock-on effect for
those cups as well so maybe photo days on wednesday and actually we're all right on thursday but friday
we're absolutely exhausted because we kind of you know we did we did really well with wednesday and
we kind of managed thursday and now we just were done for friday and actually then it's really
surprising almost for us as supporting adults because it seems like such a long time ago that
that we were surviving that that unusual day but actually we've come to friday and we're
and we're empty and we have to just completely adapt where we are and what we've got on that day
absolutely we it works quite well in my class actually because i only teach in my classroom
on thursdays and fridays i come on thursday and they're all exhausted and the adults are exhausted
as well and actually it's a really lovely way of finishing the week because we can be a little bit
more flexible in the structure so i think the structure is pillars so there are structured
pillars throughout the day that keep us in check but actually if they need a sensory break when
they need it they can have it and if they need a sensory diet break or a snack when they need it
they can have it and i think by the end of the week it just gets us through those last few days
of feeling that i feel like if my two days were on a monday and tuesday i'd probably work a little
bit differently actually they could probably hope with that because they've had the weekend they
actually just want some rigid ditty and they want some black and white yes and nose piece because
they've just had a bit more slothful weekend and i think that work just works really nicely in my
room anyway i work with mainly autistic non-speaking learners and it just works it works really well
for us and then by friday friday and swimming in the morning and then ips and attentional
to swim in the afternoon it's a wonderful wonderful way to end the week and it's really fun it's really
adult led it's all about relationship building and yeah being child led in interaction in that way
and then they're ready for the week and it kind of flows through it's a really
love i mean i did build the time table friday is a wonderful wonderful day i have very lovely days
to be fair i have picked the best lessons and sometimes my husband says so what are you up to
today i'm like i feel embarrassed saying because it just sounds like i'm going swimming and then
then yoga and then bikes all afternoon exactly and then if it's snow day it all goes to pot and we
just play in the snow yeah absolutely yeah i sometimes i think the same as i pack up my car
or like as i'm packing my bag and i'm like i wonder where the shaving foam is i wonder how many people
wonder that to themselves if they pack up on a friday they can't be many oh it's so fun what a
fun way to what a fun way to work though isn't it what what an honor and i really do think that as
well it's such an honor to uh build relationships with these children because my goodness are they
so capable of such beautiful and rich relationships which i feel like lots of people will never have
the pleasure of realizing so much is shown on tv shows and movies so wrongly that they are their
people and and children and adults lost in this world that don't want the outside world and can't
can't and don't want the outside world and um and are kind of locked in i suppose it's kind of often
how autism is portrayed isn't it and actually my goodness once you build trust in relationships and
and learn their language i like to say learn their language of movements and learn their language of
vocalizations and eye contact and hand flicks and stimming my goodness they are they're screaming to
to be communicated with and to build relationships with and they're so social it's just we're not
speaking their language right um yeah i think there always used to be a a phrase on assessment
forms and things where children would be described as being like in their own world or like i still
see that lost within their lost within their own world and i think it's i think it's such an unfair
way to to describe a child because i think i think we are trying to drag them into our world instead
of go what are you up to like what's what's going on for you obviously finding something super
interesting what what is it like let me be part of it like let me come and see what it is and
understand why that's fascinating for you and and join you and talk to you about it and connect with
you about it and communicate about it and actually then you are connected but i think they're not
children that want to be dragged into a world that it's scary it doesn't make sense or there isn't
very supportive often um or repeating or is a bit noisy or a bit loud or a bit
too bright and so actually you know there's so many factors that that mean actually staying where
they are in their place feels happy and safe and so instead of kind of dragging them out a bit i
think if we can kind of connect and become part of what they're doing i find i mean that's the
um the the kind of the rationale for all of my therapy planning is is looking at like what what
makes this child like love play what what do they love about play um what do they find real joy in
and what can i create for us to do together that kind of combines these things they love number
if they love number blocks then how can i create a play that means me being there is going to make
the play better for them and so actually they want me to be there rather than me going no you must
play with me how can i control their behavior yeah how can i yeah how can i set this play up so
actually having me there is so helpful they're like passing me the blocks to unclick them because
i've accidentally brought them all clicked together so we better just you know and you know
thinking about things like that so that actually we can work together within the play and connect
that way whereas actually if we like sat at the table and i like went through numbers with them
because they like numbers face to face and you know and and it's just it's not it's what brings
them joy and so actually again if we think about when our brain is in its best learning state it's
when we feel safe and happy and motivated and we're getting a nice little kind of dopamine kind of
happy you know all those lovely chemicals that happen for us when we're finding joy in something
and so you know if we can weave therapy and learning into that then our brain is just going
to absorb that we're going to make so much so much progress because yeah yeah the children are kind
of happy and willing and ready for new information but yeah like dragging children off to go and do
something that i've picked you can see why that type of therapy is less effective yeah and it
comes from a good place that you i know you're trying to help them i know you're not saying that
but it's just more effective to be led by them isn't it what i like to use is intensive interaction
it's completely relaxed and child led in that way and i think as you were describing it then i thought
yeah that's exactly what affirming practice is if we were wanting to describe it it's that we're
bridging the gap between us and their world but we're crossing the bridge in affirming practice
whereas in non-affirming practices we're asking them to cross the bridge and i feel like that's
the difference and we're asking them to fit into our world whereas actually we need we need to cross
the bridge and and and make sense to them in their language and in their way of playing yeah and when
we say play as well some parents um they will my child doesn't play and i think okay but do they
line up do they flick things off do they tip do they uh post do they you know that's that's what
we mean by play do they spin do they really anything that anything that a child does that
brings them joy is is play yeah and quite often i think for autistic children their play is autistic
play and so you almost have to kind of erase from your mind what you might traditionally think of
as as play like setting up a doll's house or kind of like rocking a baby and putting a blanket over
them and actually just watch what your child does and notice any patterns or any sequences or
anything that they seem to do over and over again um and then go that's their play that's what that's
what they picked like out of everything in this room they have picked six bottle tops from the
washing up rack and they are putting them in a line and then flicking them out of a line and then
putting them back in a line that's that's their play like that's what's bringing them joy right
now so for that i would say then you can go and sit next to them and every time they flick the
bottle top away from them you can go and you can kind of add a little bit of a person reaction to
it i love how you describe that then because sometimes they're like oh but they don't let me
do it with them or for them like no they probably won't because actually they have a certain way of
doing things and they've done this for an awful long time by themselves and we messed stuff up
all the time our intentions are so good but very often as adults we really mess it up because they
have got a system they've got a thing that they want to do they don't need us and no and we're
so desperate to be part of the play and to join in that we accidentally get in the way and what we
then do is we prove their point which is that other people get in the way and so what yeah again
one of the the best kind of tips is to just sit alongside for a while to sit alongside be present
but not actively involved and then what i tend to do is like a stepping stone into their play is i'd
maybe find my own bottle top and just have one and i just do the same thing as them but but separately
and alongside sometimes i even have to have invisible things because sometimes me having
something that they're not part of their set is really upsetting and dysregulating or they want
everything that i've got and then it becomes a bit of a battle so if you're finding that do try that
but if you're finding that sometimes i have invisible things and i just copy the movement or
the sound or the something because i'm still joining in without that weird battle and if you
feel that they're uncomfortable with how close you are then take a step back or if they feel
that you're so comfortable with how you're sitting then sit somewhere else but but they're obviously
aware of you and that's good that is your start it's just we want them to be as comfortable as
possible and and yeah and this isn't a magic wand it takes time and that's the point isn't it but
if you're committed to it then gradually yeah and quite often when we do something new and we're
trying this this kind of play and interaction therapy to start with it will feel new and and
maybe a little bit too much for children and so they might watch you do your invisible bottle top
and they might take their seven over to the other side and kind of say no thank you this was actually
a me time activity and again that's absolutely fine i tend to just narrate along with it and go
oh i had a turn but now it's time for you to play by yourself i understand i'll come back later and
you know just narrate alongside it and almost give that like advocating phrase to them as they
as they go so they move along and i go oh i need a bit of space and they kind of as if i'm talking
as them so that they can hear that phrase they might use it another time if they can
um it means that you've had this this very equal interaction there like i didn't come in and insist
that i must be part of your play um i haven't taken over i haven't taken your toys i haven't
touched your play yeah i've offered to be part of it i've asked for an invite and then you've either
replied saying yep join in or no thanks not today and both of i think we have to show children that
both of those things are an option like they can say no thanks for you joining into this play it
feels too special exactly exactly and sometimes it is we all like me time don't we and and that
that relationship and trust will have to build won't it and and if you're showing them i respect
your space and i allow you to advocate for yourself and you give consent to me working with you and
playing with you and i honor when you don't give that then next time they might be a little bit
less anxious that you're going to slip in because they'll realize that this person doesn't do that
in you know and i think it's a huge gesture of connection to allow a child to say oh i'd like
to do this by myself and for an adult to respect that yeah i think that it can be really new for a
child they might not have ever experienced that before because there are so many other times where
as adults we have to lead them and we have to guide them and we have to show them and
you know we have to be in charge of whether you can eat whether you can eat that and whether you
can climb on that but actually in play they can be fully in charge of that and so it's really
empowering for them in a paid environment it is your job you're paid to work with this child
you might be being watched by the parent you know it takes so much always being watched so it might
take so much confidence to step back because you almost want something to happen i can imagine yes
yeah yeah but i think it's it's about explaining that there's a reason for that for that space
and that distance and that my my motivation is not to make them talk or or to make them play with me
like that's not my aim my aim in therapy is for us to build a connection through play and a connection
is a two-way thing like i can't make them connect with me but so often that offering of like this is
up to you means that we do connect because you know they go off and they do their thing and then
maybe i play something different over here and they are curious about it and so they come over
and maybe they take all of my bottle tops that i started to play with but all that's okay
we're still interacting now and i say you need them all okay here they are and we you know i'm
then i'm then helping yeah passing the bottle tops over are there any more in this basket i will go
and check for you i found three more here you go you know and we're now in a collaborative play
accidentally yeah um but it started actually with me being rejected and accepting that rejection
yes yes it was really important isn't it yes yes that builds that um cool in this absolutely
and they're not even equal but they're actually in charge of this interaction are they they're
fully in charge and in control and okay yeah great yeah and that's that's right and then
meanwhile you're thinking in your head right how can i do this different next week or do i do i
have all the bottle tops all over the room and we have to look for them or whatever that you might
be yet your next time you're just thinking aren't you like how can i extend this how can i move this
on a little bit or or what could have been better you know all we're constantly questioning that
aren't we we're constantly questioning that aren't we and kind of improving our own practice in that
way and it's yeah and it no it very rarely is what we plan i love your instagram post when you say
this is what i set up and this is what we ended up doing we actually played because it's so true
yeah and it has i think it has to yeah you have to be willing to be really flexible and have an
idea and a plan because that's important you know you know what you're hoping for but also be very
accepting of the fact that the children that i support usually have a very clear plan for
themselves and and and our plans may or may not kind of cross over with each other and that's okay
we might have to just work with with with where we are and like you were saying earlier each
each visit that i do or each session that i do like i have to look at where that child's at on
that day so how you know where's where's their cup at where's their you know did they skip lunch
today because it wasn't what they liked is it friday or is it monday did they have a school
trip earlier in the week you know has mum been poorly and so the routine's been off because
auntie's been in to to help run the show you know it's you know children are i think the children
aren't aren't robots and so we can't plan for robots we have to plan for tiny humans that are
going to have very different feelings very different expectations every single time you see them
so yeah that's the best bit of the job isn't it yeah yeah absolutely i think you have to yeah you
have to really love that that kind of on the go okay this is where we're at how are we going to
like weave that that therapy idea into this now instead yeah yeah i mean thank goodness children
aren't robots and children aren't all similar like i love that i have 10 very much individuals in my
room because it just keeps it so interesting i've never i've never i've probably worked with over
400 children i've never worked with the same like even remotely similar child that was diagnosed
autistic by the way you know like such diversity which is so exciting i'm always learning and
learning new shows and learning new phrases that are interesting and learning new ways of playing
and bouncing and stimming and all these things that every child enters my room every year i kind
of like oh yeah that is so cool ah that student five years ago would have loved this you know like
i'm constantly like learning and it's just what keeps it so interesting isn't it the fact that
you can do this for so many years and work with so many individuals and and yeah that is exactly
what they are they're just so unique aren't they and it's just it's just really wonderfully
exciting yeah and yeah it's really i think that that diagnosis will only ever teach you a very
small amount about how that child perceives the world but everything else about them will be
entirely unique and so i think it's really important that when we when we know that a child
has has a diagnosis and is autistic that that doesn't it doesn't end there there's like there's
a lot more for you to explore about who that child is and how you can support them and what
their passions are what their strengths are what their struggles are because otherwise sometimes
we limit them honestly we assume that they are incapable of x y and z and that's a real issue
real issue because that can mean that they become incapable of it because we're not allowing or
facilitating opportunities in order to build equal friendships with mainstream students i don't know
we're not allowing opportunities to prepare their snack independently you know we're not allowing
to not become too prompt independent prompt dependent sorry because we're always prompting
because we're assuming that they can't you know all of these kind of things that i need to remind
myself of constantly like you said it's the forefront of my mind not only is is this affirming
but also am i doing too much for them as well am i being too much i call this a gentle stretch
so that we're we're always looking for a gentle stretch for our children so we we don't want to
push them into a level of discomfort because we know that children don't learn through discomfort
that's a very old-fashioned way of working where we power through difficult things and we repeat
difficult things to try and create kind of resilience to them but actually we know that
actually we know that particularly for autistic children that doesn't support their learning it
actually just creates trauma and an ability to mask how they they really feel about something
so we we don't want to push too far and create distress but also we don't want to limit we don't
want to over support them when they actually have capacity for this gentle stretch but again like
we were saying we've got to look at like where they're at which is on monday they've got capacity
for this gentle stretch and on friday they they don't and yesterday they did it and today they
can't and it is like an elastic band in that way isn't it of just working it out i like to start
every single day with interaction time so we have at least half an hour 45 minutes before we even
start register time of whatever the child wants so sometimes it's snacks sometimes it's sensory
diet sometimes it's reading pacing bouncing whatever they want but what the adult is doing
in that time is connecting so if it's snack they're saying oh yummy or so like oh yeah or whatever
it is you know or if they're bouncing they're bouncing to my ten yorta whatever it is whatever
it is or sometimes being in the room quiet with their invisible things whatever whatever works
for that child but it's a really lovely way to start the day because then whatever happens after
that you've already built that connection you've already grounded in that co-regulation in that way
and it is it's a really wonderful thing to do and i highly recommend all adults that work with children
kind of try and co-regulate when you first start working with them in that way i know that lots of
caregivers or supporting adults in whatever capacity will be listening to this thinking
this sounds wonderful i work with or care for somebody that's non-speaking that i've always
thought couldn't build a connection with me that doesn't really need me it's quite independent
is it as simple as starting by with rather than even the child even noticing that you're doing
anything different maybe don't even do anything different but just a mindset shift of i'm going
i'm going to attempt to connect with you by me crossing the bridge to you is that a great place
to start yeah i think so i every every i've never met a child that i i wasn't able to build a
connection with i don't think that as humans we're built to not connect with people i think it's a
really important part of of who we are i think that we all have really different ways of of
connecting with people and so quite often it's about working out what connection means to that
child because again i think we have a really neurotypical standard in our head of connection
lanes we'll be face to face we'll both be laughing we'll both have these like really relaxed joyful
expressions on our face you know yeah we'll we'll be yeah we'll be connected positively and emotionally
and and it will be the same toy and we'll be taking turns and and talking to each other with our words
and actually that's that's not what connection feels like for a lot of children actually connection
can feel like having their back to you but leaning on your arm because they can feel your warmth and
they know that you're there and they can lean on you and you can kind of help them to rock while
they're doing their activity and they like you to just sing the frog song while they organize their
frogs and actually that's yeah we're still connected we're still playing we're still doing
an activity that brings us both joy and we're both involved in the same task but it's not what
what the books and the videos tell us connection looks like and i think sometimes that that helps
yeah exactly and what we experience ourselves as connection sometimes that can make you feel
a disconnect and that isn't because there's a disconnect that isn't because there's not a
connection there we just need to put our personal feelings aside and our wants and wishes aside
and put them at the forefront of of working for them i always think that as soon as you become
either embarrassed or disappointed or hurt all of a sudden it's because you've put the spotlight on
yourself and actually to build a connection the spotlight has to be on them you have to just be
thinking about them and what they're doing and them and as soon as you start thinking about
yourself because you've become embarrassed whatever then that means you to just become
you're too self-aware you need to switch that and then and then tune in again you're not tuned in
if you're feeling those feelings of embarrassment or disconnect i guess if we think back to
our analogy of kind of like crossing the bridge it means that you've accidentally gone back in
you've gone back over the bridge and you need to just work your way back across and that's okay if
you start to do these things and all of a sudden become embarrassed or aware of everyone around you
or whatever that's fine take a breath yeah go for a little break and then and then tune back in again
because it can be quite exhausting i mean it's interesting actually because what we're asking
the children to do every day all day and coming over to the bridge to meet us when you try it
over there and try their sounds that you can't make and their movement and not getting an
interaction how you think you should interact it's really exhausting it's really tiring and i like
i'll quite often say to families you know like what i've done today in this hour like what we've done
together like it's it's too hard for you to do this all day every day like my expectation for
therapy is not for you to lift everything you've seen here and do it 24 hours a day seven days a
week because i mean it's just it's not it's not a doable target for anyone yeah because it's called
intensive interaction for a reason it's it's really intensive and you're and you're having to change
everything about how you would typically interact yeah like you say that is also sometimes the
expectation that we place on our children so it's quite a nice way of us helping that empathy and
that that mindset shift and thinking like okay hang on this am i expecting something that i'm
actually not able to do myself like within today and if i am let's just let's just meet in the
middle a little bit more it's a really great place to start of it of noticing and accepting
what they're better than you at yes it's a really humble great place to start building a connection
as a as a supporting adult i can't make that sound i can't make that that ribbon spin like you do
you are the expert in that yes me it's a really wonderful way and often they were up and that is
exactly what how you will feel you will feel well i can't make that noise what a wonderful way to
start building a connection because all of a sudden they're the expert of this interaction
they're in charge and you are the learner and i think that how wonderful how affirming is that
too yeah and if you can show that genuine joy and that genuine curiosity curiosity and kind of
inspiration in it like oh my goodness that is marvelous that's amazing look what you've managed
to do here yeah i'm not in not in not not faking it like yes yeah genuine you can see children
really respond i see children really respond to that almost i'll be see children a bit taken
aback by it as if oh yeah thanks like i'm gonna do it again and then they get this this kind of
really surprised kind of magical reaction from from an adult and that's motivating to to do the
thing again and to see if you can get that reaction again from someone and so the theme will be
boosted confidence will be boosted it's very easy to like someone that's boosting you up all the time
i mean absolutely this is like friend i want exactly yeah exactly and then you're in exactly
and then you're in so my target for this week then after this chat is to make myself vulnerable
to these connections to to cross over to the bridge to be to put myself in a position where i
i might not know the answer i might not be able to do the thing and to sit with that uncomfortable
feeling as a lovely beautiful reminder that in this interaction with this connection i'm not the
expert and actually they can teach me far more in this in this world than than i can teach them i
can teach them i think it's a really wonderful thing for the week so thank you so much