Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for
everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled
pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions
and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another live. Today I'm going to be joined by someone all the way from
New York, Shandel, and she is an educational inclusivity talker and consultant and also an
author. She's also a mum to all DHD children, so autism and ADHD. Let's get her on. Hello.
Hello, how are you? I'm so excited that that just worked so easily. That's exciting.
It's good to see you. So, I just did a tiny little introduction. I was explaining that you are an
inclusivity educational consultant and a mum of neurodivergent children and an author. Yes.
But you can, I'm sure you can explain much better. So would you like to introduce yourself?
Thank you. So my name is Shandel Morris. All of the things that were just mentioned, I have
a son who is autistic. He also has ADHD. My daughter has ADHD, possibly dyslexia. I also have ADHD as
well. And I just found this out after my children, after we learned what their neuro type was,
I started to notice, well, I kind of do some of these things too. And I found out that I also have
ADHD. Common, isn't it? But women especially find out that way. Yes, but it's a learning curve for
all of us. We're all learning about neurodiversity. We're all learning about differences between
genders as well. So I am also an inclusive educational consultant. I go to different schools
and I teach teachers, educators, school psychologists, all about neurodiversity, understanding the
children that they have in their classroom, understanding autism, how common it is. And we
don't really notice. We have, I tell them every single classroom, every classroom in every school
has neurodiversity children. And unfortunately, as much as teachers, as we try to help our students
give them the best they can, unfortunately, we don't know as much about neurodiversity as we
thought. And there are children in our classroom who are not getting the assistance that they could
get to help them to thrive simply because we don't know. And so that's the reason why I go around
and I, to different districts and I make sure that I teach everyone. I'm also a college professor.
I don't know if I mentioned that to you. I'm a college professor for teacher education. A lot of
my students, my students are going into the education field to be teachers as well. Amazing.
Because as far as our teaching qualifications in the UK, we barely covered SEN. Like we barely
covered special education. We very barely covered neurodiversity. And I think the facts and figures
since I trained are very wrong. Like when I trained, I think officially on the National Autistic
Society website in the UK still says one in 100 are autistic. And there is one child at least in
every single class of our school. And I'm sure that's not unusual. It has to be more than one in
100. What are your thoughts on New York and what you're feeling?
Now it's raised. But different places say different things. Some people say one out of four now.
However, when you go into the doctor's office and you're expecting, as a parent, you're expecting
the doctors to know more than you. The doctors are right now learning at the same time that we all
are learning. Same time the parents, teachers, everyone is learning. And a lot of times parents
go to the doctor and then they feel like my child is doing such and such and such. And they're
realizing the doctor doesn't really know. The doctor can't really help either.
So it's so broad, isn't it? Especially if you're going to a general practitioner.
Yeah.
They need to know a little bit about everything. They don't necessarily know about that one thing
again, unless you're like, you're specialized in that area. Exactly.
And more is being discovered all of the time. Absolutely. Let me tell you, I went to a doctor,
my son was, he was having pain in his joints. And we had just found out that he was a fit. I think
he was only six years old at that time, but he's very insightful. And the doctor looked at his
chart and she was a rheumatologist. And she says, this chart says that you're autistic. It doesn't
look like you're autistic. Are you autistic? And he was very friendly. And I'm sure many of you guys
who are watching right now can be, can definitely understand why he was offended. And then she
proceeds to say, count to 10. And so he counted 10 really quickly. And he says, you know, I,
I don't understand why this doctor asked me to count to 10. It says that I have to not be
intelligent in order to be autistic. And for him to be six years old and to understand that
shows me that we all have a lot to learn. Yeah. And a lot to teach us on. It comes down to all of
us, doesn't it? Whether you're a professor or whether you're a teacher in a school or whether
you're an assistant in a school, we all have a responsibility to educate. So what came first
then? You're, you being an ADHD and autism mom, or you being a consultant or you being a professor
or you being an author, what, what was the order of things? Okay. Thank you for asking. So my son,
this is during the pandemic, we started to realize that since he was born, actually, we started to
realize that he was a little quirky and we didn't really know what made him a little bit different
from the rest of the children. But during the pandemic, even though we had been getting him
evaluated many times, I think like three times before that, there were so many changes during
the pandemic. Hybrid school, you're, you're at school during the half day and then online at
the end of the day. And all the changes was just unbearable for my son. And he was having autistic
meltdowns in class. This is not really something that we experienced at home. And the school
psychologist told us, yeah, I think your son might be autistic. And she was afraid to tell us, but I
was actually very happy that someone was able to see what we were seeing. It was, it was very hard
because at first, you know, we didn't know how to feel about it. We didn't know if we should be happy,
sad. We didn't know, was it something that we did? Did I take too much Tylenol? You know. And then
afterwards we started to learn a little bit more. Google did not help us guys. If you want to know
about autism, don't go to Google. That's not necessarily, go to people who work with people
who are autistic or with autistic individuals. Google didn't help us. But as we started to learn
more and more, I learned the word neurodiversity and that changed my life. It opened my eyes in a
way that literally helped me to see the world in a different way. We started to learn more about
autism. And then this is the first book that we wrote. And it's called I'm Just a Kid. And in the
first two years, it sold over 10,000 copies without any type of ads or any marketing. And we realized
that it was a high need book. It's called I'm Just a Kid, a social emotional book about self-regulation.
Right now in my children's school district, every single K-3 classroom has it in their class. So,
yay. We're hoping to be able to spread that so that other children can be able to read
these books and say, hey, you know, it's okay if I do have big emotions. It's okay if, you know,
I cry. Here are some things that help me to calm down. And it really brings in that conversation
to say, no, you're not a bad kid. No, you're not this. No, you're not that. You are awesome.
You are great. You are smart. Yes, you have big emotions. And that's okay. Here are some things
that you can do to help you to calm your body and to regulate your emotions. So it was understanding
that he was autistic and then writing this for the different families that we went to, that we
definitely imagined. This is him right here. So you created the book that you needed and your son
needed at that time. Yes. To validate what he was going through. Absolutely. And we wanted parents
to know that it's okay to, you know, the parent right there, she's feeling sad, but at the same
time, she wants to validate him and let him know that it's okay to have big emotions. It's okay to
be upset. The mom here, she's crying a little bit, but at the same time, she's happy that he's
feeling a little bit, you know, he's feeling a little better. So these are things that really
help families and help teachers as well. They read it in their classrooms. That's really how
the whole thing started. I heard you say you call it a social and emotional. Social, emotional,
social, emotional regulation. Is that like a social story? Like is it, is the idea of it that it's
kind of guiding them through those emotions or what are your thoughts on the social, emotional?
Yes, it's kind of like a social story. So, so if they are, so if they're going through something,
and even if they're not going through something, it's really just to help other children to see
that your friend might be having some big emotions. Your friend might be having a difficult time in
your classroom and this is not out of the norm. Although we might not see every single day,
this is okay. It is okay. And here's some things that we can do to help your friend. Here's some
things maybe your friend needs different things like that. So it's really just to not alienate
children, but help them to understand that we're all different and we all need different things.
Yeah, because as a teacher reading this, you wouldn't have to say, and these are the children
I'm talking about. Exactly. But just reading the story and having, I mean, children are clever.
They know. They can put two and two together. They can think, hang on, he does that. Like,
they might try this without actually saying it and then let the video put in the following.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I tried to put it in a way that this can help, like, not only children
who have, who are autistic or who have very big emotions, but it can help anybody overall understand
that we all have different things we do to be able to keep our calm. Everyone has their own calm.
Everybody, some people use music to calm themselves. Some people use a blanket. Some people,
everyone has their own calm. And so in this book, it helps us all, even whether we're in a special
education classroom or not, we all have their, everybody gets angry. We all get angry. But what
are some things you do to help you to calm yourself down? Right. It's funny you say that,
actually, this term has been the first term that I have used zones of regulation. I don't know if
you know of it. It's about naming your emotions and linking them to the colors. And we haven't done it
in our class before. And the idea is that you model as the adults and supporting adults as well
as the children doing it. And just me in the morning walking in, like no one's in there yet,
no one's in my room, and putting my photo and really thinking, what am I feeling today? And
naming that emotion and putting my photo onto it and changing it throughout the day. It has had a
really significant way of me feeling those things, accepting it, thinking about, okay, how am I going
to meet that then if I'm feeling tired, if I'm feeling ill, what am I going to do about it?
Because I can't go home and like, take the day off. So what am I going to do? And maybe and it's
making changes for me as an adult. So I have Yeah, so I'm sure I'll have an impact on the children
as well. But even just as an adult level, reading these stories, naming those emotions, thinking
about what am I feeling? What am I going through? How can I meet my needs? Also supports the
children. You know, when they they talk about the airplane, you say put your own seatbelt on in your
own oxygen mask on first, before you have the same thing. We're thinking about it, because we call
we call it co regulation. So like regulating together, because if one of you is just regulated,
whether it's the caregiver, or the child you're caring for, that's not going to be a regulated
state is it if you're both dysregulated. So yeah, put your own mask on first is such a great way of
thinking about it. I love that. So here, this is called sharing your calm, right? So the mom
here is calm, the little boy is completely dysregulated. But yeah, sometimes we need to
share our calm in order for us to share our calm. We need to be calm. Yeah. And even if we're feeling
all the feelings inside, we need to have ways of finding calm so that we can be there calm to their
chaos. Absolutely. I love that. And then you have another book as well. So what book on?
So, um, I believe all about diversity. I focus on neurodiversity. However, all about diversity.
There was a little there was a little girl in my daughter's class who was getting bullied
because of the way she looked. And then everybody was everybody was teasing her. My daughter said,
mommy, I really tried to get them to stop teasing her. And it really broke my heart. And I don't
know what to do. And I was actually in the middle of writing another book, which is actually coming
out. That book is coming out next year. So stay tuned. But I was actually in the middle of writing
that one. But when my daughter came home, I said, you know, this, this is a story that needs to be
shared to let people know that our differences is what makes us beautiful. Any difference that we
are all unique on the outside and on the inside. So when we're talking about autism and ADHD and
dyslexia, that's on the inside of us. And that's what makes us, that's a part of what makes us
unique on the inside. But there are also things that makes us unique on the outside. When we think
together, it makes us amazing. And so this book is called the beauty of us all. This is also a book
that is in every classroom in our district. And in this book, it really just takes a moment to look
at nature, biodiversity and how diversity is in nature. In this page right here, there's a mom
talking to her daughter about the different fish in the aquarium and how they're all unique and how
they're all beautiful. And they're all the same fish and the differences that they all have,
whether it's the sizes, the shapes, the colors, those things make us look at them like, wow,
these are really beautiful. Same thing. We have these, we always have these little lessons with
snowflakes in our classroom. And this is a very good lesson for us during the winter season.
We have all these different shapes and sizes of snowflakes and that's the same thing with us
as well. We have all these different clouds and the skies and we look at them in awe and we say,
look at these different, look at the shape and oh, that one looks like a rabbit and this one
looks like a bear. And we have, let's see, we also have the leaves that are different colors here
and different shapes. And so this is what we're showing them. This is how it is in nature.
It's beautiful when we look at nature. When we look at nature, we're like, wow,
this is how it should be also when we're looking at each other. We're looking at our friends.
And I do author visits at the schools and sometimes I get the privilege of,
well, I have these grand assemblies, right? But sometimes I get these privileges of having
intimate settings where I'm with the children in their class. I love it. I love it. And so when
I'm in their class, I get to see them and say, look at your friend, look at their hand, look at
your skin, look at your hair. I want you to look at them and say these words. You are awesome.
And then they say that to each other. And it is so amazing how, you know, we can look at each other
and we can appreciate that my hair might be different than your hair. And my skin tone
might be a little bit darker or mine might be a little lighter. And all of our differences makes
us so amazingly beautiful. And that's how we were designed. And so the mom, she continues throughout
the book to show her different things in the aquarium. And they're able to see that whether
it's on the inside side or the outside, all of our differences makes us amazing. And so I really
try to, I have a publishing company and I really try to focus on creating books that will make
the children look at themselves and see just how amazing they are. And at the end of every book,
they have these affirmations. I don't know if you can see, but it's because it's backwards.
It says, I am beautiful. I am smart. I have a purpose. I am unique. I am a miracle. I am connected.
I am chosen. I am loved. And so every book has a different set of affirmations in it.
And this is really just to remind your children in your classrooms or at home that they're amazing.
Because guess what? Our kids, especially our kids who are neurodivergent all the time,
they're constantly hearing, no, don't do that. No, you did that wrong. No, you can't do this.
You made a mistake. And they're constantly hearing all these negative things.
Even if, or they're so terrified of making a mistake, they're masking to the high heavens
and holding it all of themselves in all the things that make them them. I hate that even more.
Absolutely. Absolutely. They're holding themselves in. They want to fidget. They want to move around.
My daughter, she has ADHD. She has these fidgets everywhere. She always has fidgets. Every pocket
is fidgets. We buy. And sometimes she's in the classroom that's affirming and the teacher says,
are you having a hard time? You didn't grab one of your fidgets. It's okay. And sometimes she has to
go into a place, maybe like the library or a teacher that doesn't know her as well. And they say,
take that out of your hand. No toys in here. And so she's forcing herself as remember the girl,
girls masking a little bit more, it seems. She's forcing herself to it. Yeah, she's forcing yourself
to be able to stay still. She's having a hard time now. You can't concentrate on what you're saying
because she's just thinking about the fact that it needs to move. So she does this thing where she
wiggles her toes. And she often says, Mommy, can you buy me like shoes that it's big enough in a
tool area so that I can wiggle my toes when I'm forced to stay still. So it's unfortunate that we
have to force people to stay still all the time because that's not all how we all created. But I
mean, these are different things that people use in order to cope in the places that are not as
designed for them as they should. Absolutely. And maybe when as teachers, if you're hearing this and
wanting to read the book, maybe the other adults in the room need to hear it just as much or even
more than the children in the room. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I always say that
these books, even though they're children books, they each have a message for all of us as adults.
I mean, the I'm just a kid book, I think the main message for adults is about self-regulation for
yourself and then also sharing your calm because it's so easy when kids are having a meltdown or
they're they're frustrated. It's so easy to say, you're giving me a hard time instead of saying,
you're having a hard time. Yeah. Let me calm myself down and let me try to help you. Yeah.
Because you take it personally, like naturally, don't you? Yes. But you're not listening. Go in
time out. You know, that's just the natural thing that many of us do. It's a muscle you have to
exercise, isn't it? Your first instinct to be calm, regulated, swap out, whatever it is you need to
do is a muscle you have to exercise and constantly check in on with each other, I think, as a team as
well. Yes, definitely not easy. Doesn't come natural. We learn to calm our bodies. So we really
have to when we see somebody completely dysregulated, we really need to say, okay, who's
that? Let me calm down. Let me calm down. My son, when I mean he's having a meltdown, it's sometimes
so like I feel it here. I get so frustrated sometimes. And I have to really like calm myself
in order to go to him. And then when I'm walking to him, he gets nervous. Like, are you going to
be upset with me right now? Like, how was the response going to be? And I go to him and I hug
him. And then he says, I really thought you were going to be upset. I'm like, I was trying my best
to not show that I was upset or be upset. But it's not easy. But that's what helps our children.
Do you feel like it's a luxury in school and compare to our home that I've got lots of
supporting adults in my room that I can just switch out with, you know, to just give me a moment
to gather my thoughts, take a breath, go outside or whatever, and then come back into the situation
calm? I feel like lots of parents don't have that luxury. And so it's about finding other
ways, isn't it in the moment, because you won't always necessarily be able to safely walk away
and take that time. Yeah. And then also, so it's about teaching your children to be able to
think about the things that helps them to calm down, even when sorry, even when you as the adult
are not there. So like, if you're if you're not home, if your child was not home, and they're at
school, they have to think about what are some things that helps me to calm down so that I can
use that. I say to the teachers that I'm coaching very often, as adults, we, we try to make
accommodations for ourselves, right? We're sitting down, we have our little pens, we're clicking it
because we can't we have to move around, right? We're drawing and we're tapping our foot, or
we might just get up and walk around us as adults. But as kids, when we see kids doing that, we tell
them sit down. What are you doing? You're moving around too much. We don't give them that opportunity.
So helping children to find those ways to accommodate for themselves, just like us as adults,
we accommodate for ourselves. And we have the same struggles, right? There's no this is the
kids struggle, this is adult, no, kids get angry, we get angry, kids get busy, we get busy too.
Try sitting in a three hour meeting, and having to be forced to sit is not easy.
It was really obvious, actually, in the beginning of this year, we had some training,
and we were asked to sit for I think it was 45 minutes at a time before a break. And I was
looking around thinking 45 minutes is too long for us adults. And we're asking these children,
because the adults were fidgeting, they were getting up, they were wiggling in their chair,
they were doing doodles. And yeah, we're asking some six year olds, sometimes in phonics to sit
in for 45 minutes is too long. It's far too long. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Which is why it's
good to have these movement breaks as much as you can. Simple. It can be simple. It could be like,
okay, everybody stand up, put your hands all the way up. Ask my students and they sometimes get
annoyed because I do it too much. I made it. I say, okay, everybody stand up, put your hands up,
wiggle your fingers, move your, move your shoulders around. Okay, you can sit back down.
Then a professor, why did we have to do that? I'm like, because some people in here needed it.
You might not have needed it. So, but I want to give them an opportunity. That's the point though,
isn't it? As teachers, rather than picking out, okay, you need a movement break, you need a movement
break. Everyone needs a movement break. Let's just, let's just all do it. Let's just all take five.
You'll end up wasting that time somewhere along the line anyway. So let's just take five, let's all
do it. Cause actually some people are masking. We wouldn't even know if they need it or not.
Absolutely. And let's just all do it and we'll all be better for it because there's no harm that comes
from doing that, is there? Absolutely. Absolutely. Another thing that we can do as educators, as just
people is make sure that we are making the space as affirming as possible. So letting them know,
you can tell me if the lights are too bright. Let me know if the lights are too bright. I can dim
them. Like I can turn one of these off. Let me know if this music that I'm playing in class during
while everybody's doing classwork and we have music playing, let me know if it's a little bit too loud
because for some people it can be loud and others are completely fine with it. But if you're having
a hard time, let's hear it up. It's okay. Just let me know. You know, just making sure that it's an
affirming place so that they know, okay, this might bother me and it doesn't bother somebody else,
but it's okay. My teacher says that it's okay if we can turn this down or adjust it. So as a person
who understands or is starting to understand this, this is a very good... It's about embedding that
philosophy in your classroom, isn't it? Yeah. In everything you do, saying it outright and not
assuming that they will just tell you that it's too loud because often children wouldn't unless
they were asked to. They're so scared of being told off which is the wrong thing, especially
those neurodiverse maskers. So yeah, it's about outrightly saying, isn't it? And reminding and
embedding that philosophy and also saying when maybe you're struggling like, oh, that's too loud.
I'm really struggling to concentrate right now. Can you keep it down a bit? Because actually I
feel a bit wiggly. Can we just move? So like almost putting it on yourself and not doing it,
for the sake of it, but doing it really honestly. Like actually, you know what? I'm not with it today.
Like I'm feeling a little bit down under the weather. Let's go there because then it's
embedding like this is okay. This is something that adults really something that children feel.
It's something that we all feel. Let's talk about that. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because what?
We're human. We're all human. We're adults, but we're human just like our students or the people
that we are taking care of. And so letting them know, guys, this is what I do because I'm neurodivergent.
Sometimes, yes, it might be a little harder. The light might be too bright for me and maybe the
sound might be too much. So I tell them all the time, my students, guys, just so you know, today
I'm having a little bit of light sensitivity. So if you see me put on my shades or if you see me
turn down the light, this is why. But if you're having a hard time, I won't turn on the lights.
I'll just put on my shades. So I just let them know like this is what's going on because guess what?
They know that you care about them. They also care about you as well. And building those
relationships is what makes the place affirming and accepting. It's all about building that
passion culture. My learners are cognitively quite low. They're very disabled as far as
like cognitive ability goes and communication. But I still feel like there's ways of doing that.
So rather than maybe explaining it, I just show it. Sometimes if it's loud, I just put on ear
defenders myself. Or sometimes if I need grounding, I put a weighted blanket on myself or I twiddle,
you know, whatever it is. So you can model it without any language at all. So if you're
hearing this and thinking, oh, I'd really like to do that, but I don't think my child will understand.
Well, you can just model it. And there doesn't need to be a verbal explanation. Just by you
doing those things and reaching for those things, they will get to know, okay, this is something that
we can all do. And this is when I can do it, I think is perfectly manageable, isn't it?
Yes. And I think that's a way to make your classroom or your community as inclusive as you
possibly can using those verbal prompts, using the nonverbal, just having it all, all different ways.
I definitely think that helps all of our students.
Yeah, I love that. So would you have any, is there anything else that you would hope or wish that
teachers would have or do in their classroom to make it as inclusive as possible?
Yeah. What does that look like in your mind?
So I, you know, my daughter was really blessed to be in the classroom that she's in right now.
She has a teacher who is neurodivergent. Her teacher is, and her teacher teaches ELA,
and she's also dyslexic. And I was like, you teach ELA and you're dyslexic? Awesome. I love you.
And in their classrooms, they have different zones of lighting. So teachers have lamps in there
just so that you don't necessarily have to have the bright overhead lighting. You can have different
lighting. You have your cozy areas where if you need to move from where you are and go into
a place to just calm your body, you can. You might have, the teacher also has a standing desk. So a
student who's having a hard time sitting at their desk and doing their work, it literally looks like
a tray where they could just put that on their desk and they can just continue to do their work
there. Having those movement breaks and everybody, maybe everybody dancing or maybe everybody
going for a walk together, just making sure that you are including as many people as you can.
Also speaking about neurodiversity so that it's not something that is like when someone
experiences one student, they're not like, what's going on with that student? You know,
we're teaching them about AAC devices, right? We're teaching them about this chat or we're
teaching them about autism and how it's different, how it looks different for everyone. Teaching them
about ADHD. And maybe if you are a neurodivergent teacher yourself, you're teaching them from your
experience as well. As much as we can make things inclusive, ask your parents and say, hey, we're
going to be teaching about such and such a such. Would you like to come into our classroom and
share your experiences? And so as much as we can, we're making it so that it's not a, oh,
an others thing. This is a us, this is a us thing. This is a people thing. This is our friends type
of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Someone's asked, how can you be inclusive in the classroom
when some children and teachers need bright lights and others might need dim lights? I can speak for
myself. It's children often know what they need. So one of my children likes to wear hoods or
blankets over their head or caps or hats. And it's about acknowledging that and allowing that
because there'll be a reason for that. And it could well be because the lights are too bright.
Yeah. And I have students that it's constantly like lights on, lights off, lights on. I mean,
typically children wouldn't care too much as far as a sensory regulation level. If they are too
low, it would be more of a visual vision thing if they're too low. So I would say test it, test it
a little bit dimmer because then all might be able to access. But also, yeah, allowing hoods up,
allowing caps on, allowing sunglasses. I feel like lots of classrooms would not do that. But that
just seems obvious to me that that would be a solution. Do you have any other ideas on that?
Whether it's like some like it lights up, some like it noises, some like it music, some like quiet.
How do you manage that? I mean, definitely, I definitely agree, agree with your strategies.
I mean, I never actually thought about the hoods and the caps in class. However, I think that's an
awesome idea. Some I've had teachers say to me, well, it's not fair though, because this everybody's
going to want to have it. In the younger classes, I teach about, you know, helping children to
understand people's needs. Some people need wheelchairs, some people don't need wheelchairs.
We're not all going to be wearing wheelchairs, but some people need it, right? So understanding
and accepting that people need certain things. If somebody gets a boo-boo and they're bleeding and
now they need a band-aid, but not everybody's going to need a band-aid. So keeping it to them
in that way before, before it comes up, helps them to be able to understand, okay, some people need
certain things and some people don't need certain things. I think that that will help. Well, who's
to say they don't need that? They might all need them. Like maybe, like who are we to say they don't?
And it will soon become clear who's getting distracted and who's actually being focused
by that fidget resource, right? It looks like you're being distracted by your fidget resource. Is
this supposed to help you concentrate? Remember, if it's not helping you concentrate, maybe put it away and
do it at playtime, but almost assume competence, assume that they know their bodies and tell
proven other ways rather than the other way around of assuming they don't know what their bodies need
and we're in complete control of everybody's needs and we know exactly what they're all feeling. Of
course, we can't do that. So who are we to say you don't need that? Because actually they could be
wiggling their toes in their shoes for an hour, but sitting perfectly still and we're saying they
don't need it. Who are we? Who are we to say that? Absolutely. Absolutely. Like I said, I have my
daughters who wiggles her toes all the time and when I speak to her teachers, they're like,
well, she's fine. She doesn't need such a thing. I'm like, yeah, yeah. I literally have to go buy
her bigger shoes all the time so that she can have that opportunity. So I think it's, assume
competence is a really great practice. Yeah. Assume that they know what they want until proven
otherwise, until they are a bit silly with the results or until they aren't safe with climbing
or until they aren't doing it in a safe or appropriate way. And then we can guide them
with maybe a safer way or a more return away or maybe they just do it at a later time. But I think
assuming competence is setting yourself up for an inclusive classroom, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
You don't need that. I mean, let's face it, when you first get the fidgets out, when you first
introduce it to your class, they're all going to want them. Let's just put it out there. Let's not
try and lie to ourselves. They're all going to want the fidgets because it looks fun and it looks,
you know, doesn't it? And it's new. We all like new and fun things, but it will soon become obvious
who it's helping and who it's not. And we can have a conversation around that then. Yeah. Maybe we'll be
giving them that opportunity to try it out. Let's all try it out together. Exactly. Like, does this
feel good for me? How do you know if you haven't tried it? Yeah, absolutely. You know, in the
beginning, they complained about it. They call it toys. But when they really see it working,
when they really see, oh, this child is using it and the understanding and retaining everything
that I'm saying to them. Okay, I see how this works. I think teachers who have not used
fidgets in their classroom or don't normally allow fidgets, take the time to really, really look to
see how it's working for your students. Yeah. I think it's different, difficult when you've got a class of 30
to relinquish that control. Yeah. Because it takes so much time and energy to get them sat and get
them there. The idea of adding toys and fidgets to that just seems like it's out loud and controllable.
Actually, when reality when it's used properly and appropriately with those children that need it,
actually, you will notice you'll see the difference. You won't need to feel like you have to control
and sit and stay still in order to feel heard and seen and them listening. Because actually, it will
just happen if their needs are met and if they're regulated. So it's almost like releasing that fear
of losing control and actually turning into, you know, we need to collaborate rather than
control, don't we? But it's scary as a teacher in front of with 33 children with no support staff.
That's scary. And I get it. I get why teachers are fearful of that. And also when they they they're
really brave and they try it for the first time and then it goes crazy because all of them want
fidgets. I say stick with it. You do it for three weeks. I promise you after three weeks, it will be
old news and those children that need it will actually just be using it. Yes. But it's hard to
stick with something for three weeks when it's chaos in your classroom. Absolutely. Absolutely.
It's all about trying it out. And not all fidgets are created equally. Some things work and some
things don't work. So at first, you definitely have to try things out. Yeah, that's true. I get
lots of messages saying I tried to ease but they don't work. I'm like, have you tried lumpy to ease
bumpy to ease vibrating to ease hard to ease soft to ease. There were there was many to ease out
there as there are diverse people, you know, you know, and saying the fidgets as well. So it is
about maybe talking to the parents. I mean, the parents might know what they're doing or having a
look at their behavior, you know, if they're twiddling ribbon, well, then a fidget of a cube
isn't gonna maybe give them that same feeling. Maybe they know something similar. So it's about
an unpicking the why and the how they're meeting their needs and what that is. For example, if your
daughter's moving her toes, or she obviously needs some kind of movement, doesn't she? It wouldn't
necessarily be a visual stimuli that helps her. So it would yeah, kind of looking at each each
has individual really, and talking to them about it, you can, you know, why do you do that? What
helps you? Oh, you know, do you think of anything else that might help you? If you can have that
conversation, I think it's really empowering to include them in that conversation. And also to
observe what they do naturally, right? So like, if you notice, like my son, he has like the bottom of
his shirt, he will just go like this all the time, every minute. And so like, if you notice something,
a type of fidget that has that same type of sensation, keep those things in mind, because
we're all, like I mentioned, when I was a kid, we all have different ways to calm our bodies, we all
have our different, so fidgets are the same way. There are things that my daughter, she likes the
poppies, she likes, she pretty much likes every fidget, but she has hers is about sensory. She
loves sensory. Some people are sensory avoidant. Yeah. And some people crave that sensory. And so
people that are sensory avoidant might not necessarily want the slime, right? You have the
slime for everybody. It doesn't work for that particular person, but it might not work for that
child. So keeping that child in mind to observe them to see what is it that they really start to
go towards? What is it that their body is kind of craving? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Somebody asked
an interesting question. It's kind of, it's going off of the sensory and inclusion side, but it is
still relevant, I feel. And I wondered what you would want as a mother, but also as an educator,
I felt like you're a good person to ask for this. I have a student who is on the spectrum in grade
three. His mom has high expectations on solving multi-step math questions. How can I explain to
mom it is tough for him? And I have experienced this too, where parents have maybe unrealistic
expectations on where they're at right now and how to navigate that as the educator in the
education. Okay. So this is tough because it's really about executive functioning, I think. And
not everybody is able to understand what executive functioning is, but really try to explain it in
that type of sense. Understanding that not everybody's going to be able to do things with
all five steps at the same time. Understanding that maybe you need to break things down.
Maybe you need to break down the problem even more than such a such. It's tough though, because a lot
of times when parents are in denial, it doesn't really help the situation. But at the same time,
parents, they don't have the type of experiences that, or just like the doctor, they go to the
doctor and the doctor doesn't tell them the right thing. So in their minds, they have been hearing
all these negative things, negative things, negative things about anything different. And so as
teachers, oftentimes when you're like, you think your child needs something else, they're automatically
going to revert to all of those negative things that they have heard. So if we can break it down,
instead of saying your child's struggling with such a such a such, teach them about executive
functioning as a whole, just about everybody. And then let them know these are some ways that we
break this down a little bit more, they might be able to get it better. I don't know if you understand
or if I'm explaining it in a way that... Yeah, I know you are. So for those that don't know,
executive function is your get up and go. And it's something that often autistic people and people
with ADHD, it's a struggle to get up and go, to start the tasks unless they're compelled to. It's
really hard to make yourself do those things. And it's all about organization as well, isn't it?
Completion, the order of completion of tasks that make the most sense isn't, isn't often easy to
navigate for somebody that struggles with executive function. So they're step by step,
tasks are less broken down for you and less visual and organized for you. It's going to be really
hard to follow that and make that up in your mind. And also if they are just getting cognitively
not ready for that type of learning, now I feel like this parent is coming from a good place.
I feel like they're wanting the best for their child. I feel like they're wanting them to
progress. They're wanting what's good for them, but they might not know what that looks like.
If they haven't worked in special education before or it's relative, right? If their siblings
aren't where this child's at, they're just assuming that's what's going to happen because they don't
know any different. So it's just about educating them on they're doing well for them. This is what
progress looks like for them. This is their next target, you know, involve them in those conversations.
This is what you could be working on with them. This is what we're hoping to see that next year.
This is the things that we're working on. And then they've got a bit of a goal. They've got a bit of
a target. They can see the progress. They know what they're looking for rather than trying to
fill in the gaps themselves. And then it kind of missing the mark a little bit on what's realistic
in that timeframe, maybe. Emotional awareness is a powerful key for addressing challenges within
the autism spectrum. We can train a child to recognize the onset of a wave of anger before
it fully arises. It's hard to get back from dysregulation sometimes without almost seeing
it through. I find sometimes it's about catching it early. I feel like what lots of my students,
it's about knowing them really well. And you can kind of see it bubbling under the surface.
Whereas if you don't have that relationship, you might not see it. I get lots of messages saying,
they did it and there was no trigger. Or they did this thing. Yeah, that you saw.
They just go from zero to a hundred. Like they probably don't, they've probably been bubbling for
a while. And it just hasn't been noticed because it's subtle or you, you know, you haven't heard
those certain sound changes. You haven't heard those, you know, those hand movement change or
whatever, whatever it is. So it's about knowing that child. So I share this with my teachers
very often and also my son really struggles with emotional regulation. And so he often asks me,
why, why, what has this happened to me that I get so angry so quickly? Or he will say, I went to
school, it's more thing happened. And for the rest of the day, I couldn't handle anything else.
Everything does make me angry. And I said, sometimes think about it like, think about it
like you have a jar and the jar is basically all of the things that you're able to manage throughout
the day. And sometimes when you, sometimes a whole bunch of little things that make you frustrated,
little stuff that make you frustrated can fill up that jar. You know, the jar has a top,
but once you reach the top of that jar, you're not going to be able to handle much more.
Sometimes you're just going to not have any tolerance. And so at times when you go to school
and you're finding that you cannot handle anything, maybe you went and your jar was already full.
Maybe you didn't have enough sleep that night. Maybe you didn't have any breakfast. Maybe when
you got to school, your breakfast fell on the floor. Nobody else knows about that. But you know,
your breakfast fell on the floor or they didn't have the one that you wanted. Maybe you want a
chocolate chip and they only have blueberry and all of those little things were filling up that
jar that you have. And now it's at the top. So your teacher sees that your teacher sees
if you come to class, you started doing your work, your pencil broke. You didn't tell them about your
pencil, but your pencil broke and somebody comes next to you and you just yell at them.
Your teacher says, well, there was no trigger. I don't know what the trigger was. Now you didn't
see everything that happened to fill up that jar. Some days they might, you might go to school
and that jar is, you have so much space throughout the day to fill it up and you might go home.
And your teacher said he had a day. He did. He had no meltdowns. He had no trouble with anything.
Yeah, because he went to school and he was completely fine. Nothing, nothing really filled
up that chart or maybe it did. And he had a lot left to give you, but sometimes you don't.
Sometimes you go to school and it's already half full and just so much that you can take.
And those are things that as educators, we don't see that. We don't see that. I don't walk around
with the jar, but it's really for us to understand that, okay, they may have been some things that
we didn't notice and we can't say that there was no trigger, but even the light that's too bright
can be a trigger. We can't see it. Yeah. Yeah. Or sounds that we're not aware of, but they are.
Or smells. Yes. I think that would be a really beautiful visual to do in class with your learners.
Yeah. To explain about your jar. And then they can use that language about giving your children
the language of explaining how they're feeling. And then they can use the work terms like,
my jar's really full today. And that child just said they didn't like me. And that made me really
upset. And it's because they've started with my jar's really full today. It gives a reason,
doesn't it? And the educator can approach it so differently than if they hadn't had that language
of explaining about their jar. I really love that. I really love that analogy. I feel like it makes
a lot of sense. Absolutely. It helps you to know that not everything is visible, not all behavior.
You know, which is, when my college students, I teach them about Skinner, BF Skinner, and the
whole behaviorist approach for psychology. And I always say, I don't really agree with that per se,
especially when it comes to education. The whole education system, when it comes to classroom
management, seems to be focused on the psychologist BF Skinner and how he, a dog, I don't know if you
know about psychologists, BF Skinner, but he had a dog and he was able to say, if I ring this bell,
if I ring this bell, you know it's time for dinner. And every time he heard the bell, he knew it was
that for dinner. He behaved a certain way. He was salivating. So basically he said, if I do this,
I'm expecting a particular behavior from you. In school, this is how we are looking at classroom
management. We're looking at outside triggers, the bell and stuff like that. We're looking at
outside triggers to be able to say, this is the behavior that I'm expecting. But there's not always
outside triggers. Sometimes it's internal. Sometimes it's the light's too bright. Sometimes it's
the smell. That child is eating a candy that I hate the smell of that and it's driving me insane.
Or maybe that person is eating fish and it's driving me crazy and I just want to deck someone,
but I can't. Sometimes a memory of something that happened a little while ago or something that
happened earlier. Like I had it today. Something happened and I was like, I haven't reacted to it.
That's odd. Okay, let's just go with it. Then at horse riding, 20 minutes, 30 minutes later,
that's when it came up. Luckily, I was the same adult. I could see the transition. I could manage
it from knowing what had happened. But if there was a transition over there, if I handed it over
to a parent or a different adult, they wouldn't have known what happened 20 minutes, 30 minutes
ago. Leading to that behavior. That behavior or the reaction from what you were saying didn't happen
simply because that jar was not full. He had a little more tolerance for it.
Yeah. It took a while for him to be angry about it. It all came out of taking him by surprise.
Because he's got a learning disability, he might have taken him by surprise and it's
processing time as well, isn't it? Processing just happened. Processing. I'm angry about this.
Hang on a minute. I really wanted that and now I can't have it all, whatever it was.
And then it comes out and that's justified, isn't it? That sometimes it takes that time.
Exactly. And one more thing.
Exactly. I'm still cross about this. I mean, yeah. I mean, we all can relate to being cross
about things years later, can't we? Absolutely.
Yeah. It's just maybe they can't explain it a little bit the same. Thank you so much for joining.
This has been so insightful and it's really taught me. I like to, at the end of all of our chats,
kind of give myself a little target or a little goal for the week. And I really think it's about
giving the children visual representations of quite complex stuff. So whether it's the jar
or whether it's us modeling fidgets or whether it's us explaining about the light,
or the nature of diversity. I love those. I feel like this whole life has been full of visual
examples that are so much easier to access and understand. And it's giving the children
the language and the tools in order to explain for themselves. So that's what I'm going to take.
I'm going to one, buy your T-books because they sound absolutely beautiful and perfect. And I
do think they'll make amazing sensory stories. Definitely. You'll be seeing that in the future
because I think that is just amazing. And I love making sensory stories, stories like that. And I
haven't got any books like that in my repertoire. So I will need to add those, but also about,
yeah, thinking about how I can visually represent that and make it accessible for my learners.
I think it's really important. Awesome. That is awesome. I'm so happy to be here with you guys
today. It was very nice speaking about all the things that we were speaking about. And I hope
it really helped some of you guys who were listening. And even those who don't get a chance to listen to
live and you see it afterwards. I really hope that this helps you and your children.
Have no doubt it will. Thank you so much and have a really great afternoon.
All right. Thank you so much. Thanks. Bye.