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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for

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everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled

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pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions

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and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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Hello everybody. I am being joined by a nurtured neuro kids today which I'm so excited about. She

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is an ex-teacher and autistic mum as well. So we can hear about two sides. She's from a teacher

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point of view, so mainstream teacher and how she manages her classroom with neurodivergent children

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in the classroom in mainstream which is obviously new to me. It's something that I've never been a

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mainstream teacher before so I'm so hoping to learn in order to better help mainstream teachers.

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But also from the parenting point of view, you know, she's a parent of an autistic child and has

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chosen to home school. So we're going to talk about all those kind of things today. Hi, how are you

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doing? I'm good, and you? Yeah, I'm really good. Hi. Thank you so much for joining me. We've had

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this in the diary for a few weeks now and we've been talking all about your ideas. So do you want

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to give us first of all like a little introduction? I've done a little one but do you want to tell us

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from your perspective? I started coaching and started sort of my coaching business around home

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educating my son. So my coaching business works to allow me to stay at home because I wouldn't be

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able to carry on teaching. I kind of gave that up for having my son anyway but yes, so this work

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allows me to be able to home educate my son and to be able to support parents through, I guess,

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all my professional knowledge and kind of my personal experience. I always say it's like the

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best of my brain and my best of my heart and my head because it's like both worlds that comes

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together and I guess my page, my Instagram page, is snippets of what I do in coaching and lives

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and posts to try and empower parents and yeah just feel like they have more resources I guess. They

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have someone there to, I don't know, to make them feel like they're less alone and that's what lots

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of people have said to me is kind of it can feel like you're really on your own. Would you say that

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your main audience is parents of neurodivergent children or not? Do you work with a range of

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parents in that sense? Yes, I think they are. Whether they're finding that out or not, yes,

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I guess my main audience is I have schools following me. Some schools, more now, nurseries,

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which is great. I love that but mainly I think parents and parents finding me for different

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reasons. Some people are already kind of well on their journey understanding their child. Some

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people are right at the very beginning. They may be awaiting a diagnosis or thinking is this something

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that I need to explore. Yeah all different kind of and some are like really young children, sort of

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three and then others that I support and on my page have older children, sort of teenagers. So

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it's a huge mixture isn't it? Yeah, a real range. That you support. That's really great isn't it?

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That you can, it makes it more interesting for you as well I guess. Yeah it's also really hard.

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Yeah, it's interesting that you went into education through psychology. Did you do

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psychology before teaching? Yeah so I did my psychology A level and then a B degree.

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Okay. And then because I wanted to, I actually really loved the clinical part of my psychology

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degree. I loved it so much but I just didn't think that that was the right fit for me. And like I'm

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a total empath and I just thought I'm not sure I can do this as my main job. And so then I thought

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well I'll do educational psychology. I've always loved working with children. I kind of wanted to

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be on the ground level working with children. And then as I kind of was doing more shadowing and

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working, I then realized actually it's not so much what I thought it was. I thought I would be kind of

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assessing children and then working with them to support them. You don't do you? No. You hop in,

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you make almost like a make a snap judgment. It feels as a teacher working with educational

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psychologists. We get four hours a year with an educational psychologist. Yeah. But it's such a

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snapshot. It really is like do this, this and this right. See ya. They don't get that opportunity

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and that satisfaction to see what's happening. And a lot of the educational psychologists I spoke to

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said it's quite lonely because there's a lot of report writing. And I thought okay that doesn't

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really suit me. So you already you had to qualify having done your psychology degree. You had to go

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and teach and have done teaching for at least two years to get back onto the training. So I was

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already planning on doing that and I was already teaching. And then while I was doing it I just

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thought I don't know if that's the right route for me. So I'll just stay teaching because I'm loving

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it for now. And yes and I think progressively I loved it less and less sadly towards the end. I

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think it's really common as well. But it was mainstream teaching wasn't it? Mainstream teaching

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yes. And sort of worked in lots of different schools around London mainly. I did supply as

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well as kind of long hauling it in one school. I was always given the kind of the more challenging

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class. The classes of the highest. Really? Educating psychologists? And yeah I mean I loved it because

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it's I guess it was kind of what I got known for and what I was yeah what I was good at I guess.

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They saw it in you didn't they? Yeah I think so yes. And some classes I actually ended up

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they then wanted me to take them up to the following year. So I stayed with the children

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for two years or sometimes I taught a class in say year three and then I went up to year six and

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taught them again. So yeah it was really lovely. It's nice yeah. So I've started this life by

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completely admitting I have a lot of mainstream teachers follow me. Yeah. Where but I feel like

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I'm quite naive in what is realistic to offer because I know what I would do in a situation

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with a child but I've only got 10 children in my class and I have eight adults. It is an incredibly

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different situation. Sometimes when I'm giving advice I think well I know what I would do

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but am I being naive? Am I being realistic in the advice the resources the time given?

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I really that's why when you reached out I jumped at the chance because I just thought I really want

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to have other thoughts and ideas on this because this isn't my expertise. What SEN in mainstream

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is not is not what I have ever done. My classroom is attached to a mainstream school but it's very

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much specialist provision. You have to have an HCP to be part of it and I've always been special

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ed so I am naive to what's realistic. So do you have three realistic resources that you could

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share with us or support systems that mainstream teachers can start in their classrooms to support

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their either autistic or new idiovergent students in their class this year? What would you suggest

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they looked into? One of the biggest things is what you can do for the whole class to benefit

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the sort of the children who really need something specifically. For example if we're talking about

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children who need regular brain and movement breaks then hit the whole class with that

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because you're quite often going to be a teacher on your own with 30 children and you're not just

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looking at like neurodivergent children in terms of who you need to support. You might have children

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in there with no English and you might have children in there who are coming from a really

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challenging kind of home situation and need your emotional support as well during the day. So

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there is a lot to do and so for any teachers out there like please know that when especially on

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my page it's never about teacher bashing it's simply kind of is the issue is the system and

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I'm all for changing the system but right now we have to change it in the classroom because

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if that comes it's not going to come soon. From the inside out almost. Bottom up like it would

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have to be that way so I think yeah what you can do for the whole class so like in New Zealand

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it's incredible and they've been doing so many years that they start every day with some form

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of movement whether it's dance or you know aerobics and it's just like part of every school

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and so often I find that one of the frustrations with parents is that everything is different in

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every school and it is down to the teachers so any teachers out there and it's almost no excuse

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for why a child can't have brain and movement breaks really regularly. Brain breaks can be the

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simplest thing. I say have you got some examples of what because often I share like what I do like

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exercise balls or weighted blankets think well we haven't got 30 of those how do we do that so

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could you share some like realistic mainstream ideas? Like a really short brain break would be

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right everyone copy me and you just be starting to do different things so you're switching trying to

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get them to really concentrate and it becomes silly you're just and you can get them to stand

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up and do it or you can do it I do it when they're on the carpet right pens down eyes on me let's go

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and we do this for like a few minutes just anything you know five and they shout out how

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many fingers I'm holding up really simple things like that that you can do several times throughout

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let's say in English like that might be an hour long so like break it up with little brain breaks

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then you've got your movement breaks because brain breaks can be done when they're sitting on the

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carpet or sitting at the table movement breaks obviously you need to get up and move so when

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they're going you could do it maybe once on the carpet when they're going from the carpet to their

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tables do a movement break then which also is kind of a brain break you're doing so a quick Simon

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says is a really good obviously not Simon says you do as a teacher you know that's a really fun one

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to do as well or sometimes yeah in the middle and then if you've got kind of a 15 20 minute section

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of the lesson where they're at their tables working do something after 10 minutes so in the

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middle of that again pens down eyes on me right stand up and and then we do something just really

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physical and to begin with at the start of term it takes a while like yeah they'll be really it's

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really hard to rein everyone back in like you might be so that might be you also so these teachers

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that are hearing this don't just try it once and think oh no that was chaos I'm never doing that

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again it probably is chaos because it's something they might have never done before but trust me

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that the more you do it it just becomes routine and so then when I would do it everyone would know

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and I did it in the middle of Ofsted you know I'm not I wouldn't be scared of that because I knew

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everybody knew kind of what happened we did this and then right everyone back to it oh yeah yeah

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have that renewed kind of right now I've got my idea I'm gonna go again and so I think those

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sorts of things when you've got you know especially reports coming in saying this child needs regular

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brain breaks movement breaks do it for everyone every child will benefit from that especially

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younger children should be moving so I think those are the things you can do but also make games

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in your lessons when you're doing maths or something in input try and get movement games

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so like I used to do splat where we'd run up and splat the board I'd get them writing on white boards

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because actually if every child has a white board and they're all writing and then you hold it up

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as quick as you can or or we tell each other's tell the person next to you and then let them

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go around the table or things like that that you can do anything that you can do that is just

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breaking up listening I'm talking you're listening everyone's sitting no like that's just not going

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to be the most inclusive way so I think if you can meet the needs of whether it's two five however

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many in your class if you do it on a whole class level you're actually then ticking the boxes

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all of them so everyone's benefiting aren't they no one's missing out on them because

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and it's almost like you're catching it before they really really need it you're giving those

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regular input every you said about 10 minutes so every you know half lesson those regular inputs

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means it never gets to do this regulation it never gets to the point it shouldn't get to the point

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where they're an absolute crisis and you're having to evacuate the classroom or you're having to

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which you know just focus on this one yeah and that's like my principle in pretty much all my

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coaching as well is you know what can we do before it's all about proactive strategies what are we

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doing before our children are reaching meltdowns what can you do before they become dysregulated

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so have these regulation resets all the time so that you're just letting that pressure valve out

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rather than being reactive and thinking oh totally I think you need a movement breaker it's too late

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they're already in crisis like how do we parent when a child's having a meltdown they're already

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in it it happened before it happens before you do it yeah it's all the stuff beforehand and it's

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the same in schools like don't wait till anyone is dysregulated before you put in support and

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so I think it's that thing assume that they're all going to be dysregulated or they're guessing

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that assume they're frustrated right now because if you assume that they're getting there then you

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can put things in and then even if they're not it doesn't hurt it really doesn't hurt and you know

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same with my son if he's not angry then I'll still be giving him opportunities to let out anger even

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showing me any you know these are things this is like proactive parenting or teaching never get to

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the point where it's unmanageable for his body and I found it on inset day I don't know if any other

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teachers here found that but we were sitting for 45 minutes at a time and then we had a break 45

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minutes and I thought my goodness I am really struggling like after 15 minutes it was I I mean

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I'm neurodivergent anyway but I could look around me and I could see people like playing with their

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scrunchies wiggling their knee like fidgeting in their chair and I thought we've had enough and

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we're adults how are we asking these five-year-olds or 11-year-olds to sit for such a long time we

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need to be practicing what we preach always in those inset days don't we so if you're

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leading on those trainings we kind of need to be offering that don't we as well and I think

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I did a talk um a little while back with a child psychologist and we were talking about like

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diagnosing the environment not our children actually I think so much of the dysregulation we

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see isn't necessarily to do with anything other than what we're asking our children to do and if

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we're asking them to sit for an hour you know in a classroom without moving that's really unrealistic

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so and I think if you if you look at it and in a lot of the sort of um British Dyslexia Association

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websites and the National Autistic um website will sort of talk about these reasonable adjustments

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and when they talk about kind of movement or brain breaks it will be suggested about 10 to 15 minutes

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because at the it's not just the children who need to move for dyslexic pupils it will be the kind of

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mental exhaustion and fatigue that they're experiencing after 10 or 15 minutes everyone

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kind of needs that reset get up move and I think if you look at your lesson in those chunks

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and kind of it becomes so much easier to work that into so that's kind of one of my biggest things

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yeah so good practice to answer that question I kind of ran out question then is if it's needed

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if it's needed for one then it's good for all so I always say and I guess this goes with it good

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autism practice is good practice it's just like everybody will benefit from movement breaks

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everybody will benefit from having something predictable everyone will benefit from having

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visuals in the room even if it's not a need it's a want often usually and I had a visual timetable

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up to the whole class you know then it benefits again it benefits everybody and I would talk

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through it in the morning this is what we did today now some children had that on their tables

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as well and I made them their own copy right duplicate of what I had so again no one's feeling

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single day is in your mind is that inclusion is it is it because we hear about equity we hear about

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equality like in my mind treating everyone the same isn't always inclusion but actually I think

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what we're talking about here is equity we are offering everybody the opportunity to be regulated

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everybody the opportunity to have visuals because one child that doesn't need it 99 days at the

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school year might need it that day so it's almost like just making sure you have all the tools out

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there and available for those that need it at once and that to me sounds like inclusion I think

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that's the thing I think sometimes yes it is about inclusion and sometimes it's about equity so I

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think there's different aspects of the day where that's true but if you've got one child in your

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class for example who has an adhd diagnosis and that child is being made to stand up on their own

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and walk to the bin and back and that's being used as their movement break then that's not okay for

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me because how does that one child feel also that's not an adequate movement break yeah and it

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doesn't need to be like that and also you know parents coming to me saying you know teachers

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have said that there isn't an opportunity for a movement break they're all the time I hear it all

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the time they're always you know embrace the fun of that dance like put music on and dance like in

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between that we would dance you know we've got 10 minutes let's pack up 10 minutes for lunch let's

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all dance so that when they go out into the playground they're not filled with kind of I

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mean this is music to my ears because this is the advice I've been given and I've been so worried

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that it's completely unrealistic I've been saying uh things like if if you haven't got time to do it

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like it's almost like it's worth spending the five minutes dancing yeah for really focused 15

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minutes but not taking that 10 minutes and disruption happening behavior happening

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focus happening mistakes happening whatever you'll always spend the time you always spend the time

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managing something will you manage it before kind of proactively or are you going to then be in like

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reactive mode right now I've got to put out the fires because this has happened and this has

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happened on the playground because no doubt that child is dysregulated having to sit still 45

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minutes went out to the playground someone pushed them well they're probably going to react because

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their nervous system is really dysregulated so give them a chance do that before you go out now

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I know that that's not easy for everyone to do and some some teachers happy standing up and dancing

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with their class and some aren't but you can do it in a way that suits you also I always think for

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that one I always say if you're embarrassed if you're thinking about your like that means you're

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thinking about yourself in that moment so as soon as you feel pride or embarrassment you need to

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need to switch your brain back to them because in that moment you are more focused on yourself than

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you are on them yeah if you're not embarrassed it's because your focus is in the right place

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it's not that it's not embarrassing yeah it's just it's not about you like that's how I feel

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it's love it like even in year six no one ever criticized my dancing like they just want they

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just love the fact you're getting up and doing it with them like nobody ever sniggered about what I

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was doing although I was a bad dancer because they just love the fact they did and if they did like

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I'm not there to impress like the year sixes like I'm just not funny I would never win that anyway

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because I'm so uncool someone just said something that I think is really important someone said

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movement doesn't have to be big movement always it needs to just be drip fed into everything we do

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so if you're a teacher and you're hearing what we're saying and you are thinking but I've already

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got so much to do I can't add this in as well it might feel like that initially it might feel like

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something extra initially that you've got to add to your workload but if you do it regularly enough

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it will become embedded and it will become just part of your language of teaching and it will

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become effortless and easy and it will just be something that you just do like breathing or

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toilet breaks or whatever um yeah phrases that you just say now that you just do without thinking and

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I would like to think if you did movement breaks enough that that will become part of the language

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of just your class I'm not asking anybody to do anything that I didn't do that wasn't realistic

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and I know we used to have these like flip folders of all these ideas of brain breaks and actually

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I didn't I didn't scroll through those I just kind of made my own things up really organic in the

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moment children don't mind what you do if you just literally are counting on your hands that's you

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know give them a clapping pattern or something or have to be massive movements always I think

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obviously there's some children who will need that and very kind of comes into sensory breaks as well

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which is but some is better than none right so even if you're doing just clapping breaks that's

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better than not doing anything at all and I think that's the thing is some people think and parents

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as well it goes for parenting I don't have time to do that big thing and and I think everyone

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thinks that generally in life I don't have time to do an hour of exercise I've already got so much

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yeah whereas actually 10 minutes would be better than nothing and when I um one of the workshops I

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do is on um sensory regulation I talk about the body budget and how we're filling up our children's

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sensory cups and I always sort of say you know we talk a lot about kind of the monetary value

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if you don't have time to put 10 pounds back in their kind of body budget then put 20p in or 5p

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because anything is better than nothing and you might stop them from going overdrawn and that's

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when it's tricky I love that you can just put a little bit back in then just do that like if

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you've got two minutes before school to give their hand a little squeeze do that because it's better

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than nothing so yeah a quick clap or just wave jazz hands let's do jazz hands for like 10 seconds

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is better than nothing at all and it does just become part of your day and those imagine it

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becomes a muscle that you almost have to exercise and children coming into my room knew that they

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knew what to expect they knew what the day looked like they knew that this wasn't an opportunity to

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kind of tear around the room going crazy because we were doing it regularly enough through the day

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they didn't need to and so I think yeah work through it if it feels chaotic it's to the

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begin with just like go with it just kind of keep it going give it you know a good three or four

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weeks try and get like everyone into the routine of it I think those would be that's like my one

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biggest takeaway is to kind of meet the needs of a few with the whole class where you don't need to

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single people out don't but also assume every child needs to move and have so I mean that leaves me

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on to my next question actually um I've mentioned the word inclusion I mentioned the word equity

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just then I kind of thought your body go yeah so I'm talking about that because I'm it's something I'm

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talking about as well obviously as a special ed teacher yeah I'm interested in inclusion within

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mainstream school because I'm attached to a mainstream school but I want that to look as

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inclusive and affirming as possible is there such thing you know what are your feelings on inclusion

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in mainstream and if you're pro it why and how can it be achieved effectively and if you're anti it

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why and what is the impact on that I know it's a big question but it's something I've been mulling

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over this term in particularly it's really huge I think if we're assuming that you know inclusion is

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everyone kind of is given an equal opportunity to resources and you know and those opportunities

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in school whereas equity is we're meeting individual needs to be able to access that

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I think there's a time and a place for both and it also really really depends on the needs of the

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child so there cannot be a blanket statement of that across and you know I would have children

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who I guess now probably would be better suited to specialist resource provision school or setting

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but were in mainstream kind of when I was started teaching and there was a lot less of those schools

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around than there are now even though there's not enough now and so we had children in our

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classroom who were non-speaking and who weren't necessarily accessing the curriculum that I was

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teaching and sometimes that was really hard because these are the children who need kind of

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different sensory input a lot they need to stim loudly they need to kind of run and in the middle

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of a science experiment that's really hard to manage and sometimes I would have my class saying

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to me can we please leave the classroom because this is too much for us and sometimes then there

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were children who wouldn't be able to be removed by the adult who's working with them because that

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was too challenging so I would have to remove my 28 or 29 children though sometimes I would have

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to remove them because sometimes it is hard and sometimes I think and with parents I work with a

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lot is that thing of which is the right setting is this setting right for them and one boy who

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actually he was in my class for year three and year six I actually fought against the school

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and sometimes the professionals coming in that he shouldn't be included in every single lesson

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non-speaking in year six and he didn't need to sit in a French lesson I agree in fact I don't

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think that's inclusion I think people think inclusion is including yes and that's not what

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it means inclusion means they have equal enjoyment opportunity and opportunities to engage as

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everybody else that might look from the outside as exclusion yes so for example let's imagine

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there's an assembly and it's a drumming workshop basically schools do that right like there's a

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drumming workshop there's people have come in it's really exciting we paid for this drumming

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workshop but I have a child who has severe anxiety over unpredictable noises and to change their

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routine what does inclusion look like in my mind inclusion looks like giving them the opportunity

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they can join if they want to but also giving the opportunity that they don't want to it's choices

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it's giving them consent and honoring that consent that's me it's like inclusion even though someone

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walking in and seeing them in a completely different one from everyone else it looks like

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exclusion in my mind that's inclusion I think if we were to force them into an environment like

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that they clearly don't want to they're very like clearly not wanting to be a part of and they're

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not happy and they are voicing that in their body or whatever way they can and we are for the sake

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of inclusion making them be part of that I that's not inclusion in my mind that is that is exclusion

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even though they are physically with their peers that is exclusion because you're not considering

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their you're not respecting them you're not considering their needs wants or the impact

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on their mental health honestly I think it's considering their yeah their needs as well as

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their wants and I think what you're saying very rarely happens in schools it's everybody is in

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that room you're all in that room and the amount especially around Christmas and stuff everybody

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goes to the Christmas performance same with lunch times everyone goes into that room for lunch why

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and I think people with good intentions sometimes I think people are so terrified of excluding

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children because they hear we've got to be inclusive we've got to be inclusive and I think

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they're so they really are confusing the word inclusion with including and it isn't the same

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what I think people used to be quite taken aback that I was kind of fighting for this child to be

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partially because it looks like I was trying to get rid of them or that I was excluding them from

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this I was like but this child is spending a good kind of thing not being able to access

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this curriculum they need the things that is their curriculum where are their needs being met

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let's not you know dial down French so that they I think the inclusion part of it is that you they

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always have the opportunity so for example like we are attached to a mainstream school they do

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assembly every Friday they do a praise assembly it's lovely I really try hard to encourage my

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learners to attend I did a whole term at the end of summer and I was the only one there none of my

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kids wanted to go and I honoured that but it was inclusive because I gave them the opportunity to

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go I provided them with symbols so that they could tell me but I also honoured their consent that they

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didn't want to go this last week we had our first one back and three of them came awesome three out

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of 12 that's awesome yeah that's inclusion they all had the opportunity to attend but they also

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were respected enough yeah but this isn't for you today and that's awesome and I think in schools

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where that comes about is to do with manpower and people be and I've got such a luxury with that

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yeah let's say there are children who can't attend that assembly or there's children who struggle

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every lunchtime out on the playground and there's great examples of how schools are meeting this

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you know children who can't go into the lunch hall is who are the adults who are doing that now I gave up

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I would give up my lunchtimes and I would have children in my room because to be honest I was

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marking every lunchtime so that I didn't take it home so if I had children who wanted to come and

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eat their lunch in that room they knew they had to do it quietly because I was working but yeah

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they can do that rather than go somewhere else but I think you know there's schools that have

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amazing nurture groups happening at lunchtimes to support children who can't tolerate the kind

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of environment and it might just be that day like we have a lady whose full-time job is pastoral

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care and she always has a lunchtime group and sometimes I'm my classroom's right next to her

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so sometimes I'll see a child I've never seen before because they just weren't feeling that

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day or something's happening at home and they they just need that extra support whereas other

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children are there every day yeah and I think that's the thing there needs to be any opportunity

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I think at a lunch or play any child needs to know there's somewhere for them to go and that's where

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schools need to utilize parents because within your parent community you might have someone who

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is amazing at arts and will run an art nurture group or you've got the keen gardeners who'll

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set up a garden like please school will set up gardening groups if we have a space you know

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things like that get those kids to come and dig a flower bed with you I think if you don't have the

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resources in school to pay for it go and ask your parents like don't be scared to involve parents

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in this we also had because we were struggling with the needs and wants of our learners not

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wanting to go into mainstream it just caused them really high anxiety we brought mainstream

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class into our resource base and that was so positive so we had some year sixes that really

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wanted to do it they were begging their teacher to come in actually and support us but actually

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what we found was there was no support needed they were just playing as equals in our resource base

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and that wouldn't have happened if we were included in mainstream they would have been such anxiety

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where there'd have been dysregulation they'd have been unsafe behaviors honestly because their

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anxiety would be so high but let's flip the script let's do inclusion the other way and include the

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year sixes in our classroom where our children feel comfortable and safe and actually in control

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because they know far more in our environment than visitors do that's also inclusion right

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really really nice example of how to do it and if there are obviously any teachers who have kind of

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a specialist resource class attached then that would be such a nice idea to do it that way

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let's don't be scared of it I feel like if teachers are scared of it then even if we're not saying it

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children almost they're very intuitive and they will feel scared too whereas if they're happy to

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visit and they're asking about visiting I say let them what's the worst that can happen they might

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make then a bond with a child that makes them feel more comfortable if we go into that if we go into

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the school then you can go and see Louie because you know we can see where he sits for his slight

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learning oh totally it would definitely make my learners feel more accepted when out in the

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corridor and when going out to play time or when possibly going into class for golden time which

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is what we something that we try and do they'll recognize faces they'll be greeted at the door by

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name there isn't that fear of difference and there's pressure because those people have already

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their smaller setting and more relaxed settings so it is more formal going the other way around in

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a way and a bigger kind of jump I guess for them so I think yeah I think that's really lovely way to

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to do inclusion the other way around so someone has said a lot of children where I work struggle

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to come in after break and lunch yeah they just run around and ignore the bell is now in my mind

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I don't know if you'd agree it's because we're only doing the first step of a movement break

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we've heightened them so much it's almost like come on everybody let's jump around and then

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expecting them to be calm afterwards no their heart is racing like crazy their body's going

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their adrenaline's going their dopamine is full to the brim yeah and then we're asking them to sit

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down and concentrate in my mind we need something in between me to bridge the gap between play time

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and chasing and running and football and sitting down and focusing and in my class we do we do a

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three-step approach so it's sensory circuits we do that that real high impact alerting and then

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we do some organizing it might be an obstacle course or like you said cross body stuff and then

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it's grounding it might be it might be some squeezes or some humming or some breathing

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and then and then that you're grounded and ready to focus I think so many people think I've done

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the movement breaks what's you know what's gone wrong that is what I kind of tell parents to do

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at home but it is trickier obviously to do in school but I think how does it look in school

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you can do that by I think like the whole thing of a bell being wrong and then children are lining

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up is quite formal I think and I think if a teacher goes out onto the playground and again

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engages in some sort of movement with the child if you meet the child in their environment whether

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that's you know sitting next to your child whilst they're watching television before you ask them

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that that needs to be turned off it's the same thing go and meet your children in the playground

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doing whatever they need to do I guess it's less defense like they they meet with less defense

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isn't it it's less demanding less demand on their kind of you know for any children who feel that

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pressure of demand but also drawing them out of something that they're having the best time doing

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kind of engage them in something that looks a little bit as fun where if you come out and

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start doing like a simon says thing at the front of the line and your children can then gradually

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come over and join that's a nice flow as well isn't it rather than like cut and finish if you're

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joining them you can play with the natural ending to their game can't you I find that with my kids

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actually it's it's one to one but it makes no difference if I was just to come and say right

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come on it's time for hello now and they're halfway through a puzzle or halfway through something

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that's gonna be very different than if I sit next to them we complete the puzzle together and then

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I say it's time to finish because I we can feel the natural ending and then the natural transition

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begins and so I guess it's the same I think the end and then you're creating a really hard transition

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is challenging so I think you know with children at home or anything there always has to be a

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warning to the thing that they're loving is going to come to an end it's easier than you just say

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right but it'd be like someone coming in and hanging up your phone while you're in the middle

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of chatting to your friend you're like I was in the middle of talking to them you wouldn't be very

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your partner it's not very respectful isn't it and I get that in schools there's a greater time

388
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,560
pressure in a mainstream school because if you're still in the playground messing around generally

389
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,360
the head teachers are not going to love that so I think what would be nice in a school is I don't

390
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,560
know if people could work out a way to signal to children that there's a five minute kind of five

391
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,720
minute before the end of play because then in a way they know okay well I'm not going to get to

392
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:51,200
play they could wind up their game or they could wind up their football game or whatever yeah

393
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,280
transition out of that would be really would be I think I mean I never had any problems with children

394
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,360
coming in because I think I'd like to think that they thought there was something fun they were

395
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,560
coming in for so that's also the point right and that's I guess like you said all autism

396
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,640
practice is good practice it's just I think in my room it's just like a magnifying glass on it

397
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,560
but yeah exactly I say if the kids don't want to join my group area it's not their problem it's

398
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,600
because I'm not being fun enough or it's I'm not being engaging enough or I'm not meeting where

399
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:28,320
they're at enough and I guess it is the same in some senses if your lessons are meeting their needs

400
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,880
in their movement needs in the same way they won't be so precious about their play time because they

401
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,520
know it's okay because we get to move again in 10 minutes get to move again in 15 minutes I think

402
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:45,440
that need that they have in the playground will be as great anyway and then I think there's less

403
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,720
pressure thinking oh I've got to go back into that room and sit for an hour of course you're not

404
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:55,360
going to want to come in off the playground why would you so I think if there's something that a

405
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:01,360
child is dreading then they're unlikely to come running in and doing that happily whereas if yeah

406
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,640
if those things have been met if they feel they're coming into an inclusive space where the teacher

407
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:12,000
understands them and the teacher believes them then I think they'll be more willing to come

408
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,200
into that space anyway and I think it's when parents have said to me you know how do you go about

409
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,840
um telling a class that this child's having a fidget but they're not allowed to fidget

410
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:28,240
although I never had I never remember children questioning why one child was doing this and

411
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:34,880
another there's a really easy answer to that isn't there I think yeah I saw an amazing TikTok the

412
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,480
other day I mean tick that's wonderful all the stuff like this but the teacher literally just

413
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,960
said they brought the tallest person from the class and she said oh could you reach that for me

414
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,880
oh thanks brought the shortest one could you reach that for me oh oh you can't reach it oh okay it

415
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,680
wasn't fair that I asked you that was it just like it's not fair that I asked you to sit without a

416
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:59,120
fidget and you don't need one yeah it really is as simple as that and children don't need any more

417
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,800
explanation than that it doesn't like to be a really big complicated you know they need it yeah

418
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,840
somebody else doesn't need it they they're going out to read every day because they need to you

419
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,720
know they need reading practice if you sat and think thought about it not that you'd necessarily

420
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:20,880
word it like this but you know you don't need that reading practice we all know kind of why some

421
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,320
people are going and reading more often we know that some people yeah and I think if your classroom

422
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:32,320
is inclusive actually those questions don't come about and if your classroom is led with kind of

423
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:38,880
lots of yeah movement lots of opportunities for fun then also the other children may be feeling

424
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:44,240
less like and or they'll need to say they don't need a fidget resource like I'm almost hesitant

425
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:50,080
to call it a fidget toy I know you did a post about this this week but it's like a fidget fidget

426
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,720
equipment like who are we to say that even if they've never needed one or they usually focus

427
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,440
well they might just need it that day they might just see that little bit of comfort that day and

428
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,720
and then what do you look for when say for example a child is seeking a fidget they don't usually

429
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:12,560
seek it yeah and they are fidgeting how do you know as a teacher at the front if it is benefiting

430
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,840
them or not like what things do you look for I mean I think the fidget thing which is kind of

431
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,000
what my post is about is that fidgets got I think when the kind of fidget spinners started it became

432
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:31,760
a mainstream toy and they advertised as mainstream toys and fun and so I think in a way it took away

433
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,880
from the fact that they're a regulatory tool and they're really important for that and so I think

434
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:44,240
with it becoming more mainstream people are scared of what fidgets are in the classroom and I think

435
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:49,360
they're seen as this thing that they can be noisy they can be distracting people are playing with

436
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:55,360
them so I think there's different things when I did one of my workshops last week which was on

437
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,080
advocating for your child's needs in school and I talked to the parents lots about fidgets and

438
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:06,480
look if you're sending a sensory kit into school then this might be a really good fidget

439
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,840
child to have at the table because it's not making a noise they can have it on their lap

440
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:18,080
it's not interfering with anything if they bring in a tube no one's going to have a pop tube as a

441
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:25,440
fidget on a table so if you do that then the child next to them probably isn't going to be able to

442
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:33,840
concentrate because someone's but they get the same movement and the same need yeah needs met by the

443
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:40,320
so I said you know these could be great in their sensory toolkit that they take to school that they

444
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,280
can use at break or lunch when they need to kind of or if they're lucky enough to go out and get a

445
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,480
fidget break with somebody at some point that's in assembly the fidgets that they need that kind

446
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,400
of meet a different sensory need for them classroom yes it is right that the fidgets where possible

447
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:03,360
are not distracting because the science of fidgets isn't that we've got something we're playing with

448
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:09,680
it's something that we're doing whilst our primary focus yes someone said shift the language from

449
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:16,880
playing to using or utilizing yeah and it's so true isn't it um it's exactly that I'm with the

450
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:23,760
toy we're using it by using this I'm enabling my attention to stay with the teacher because I'm not

451
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:29,600
focusing on oh I need to move I need to stand up I feel really uncomfortable this is helping me to

452
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:34,800
meet that need so that I can focus on the teacher yeah I think if teachers understood what the

453
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:41,840
science of of fidget tools is not fidgeting but fidget tools then I think that's different but

454
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,120
I've seen this really beautiful um example somewhere on instagram from a school I think

455
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:54,000
in Australia where they had a fidget box and any child could take a fidget from that box at any

456
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:59,360
point in the classroom at any point of the day it was just out there for all of them and I think on

457
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:05,120
the tables they had resistant bands so that any child could use them for their eggs I think in my

458
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:13,200
mind that's how I would want it to look I think because some days I need more than others who are

459
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:19,360
we to say they don't need it in my mind I think even very young children incredibly self-aware

460
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,960
lots of my children in my class are incredibly self-aware they meet their sensory needs

461
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,440
might not be in this most safe appropriate way they certainly meet their sensory needs and I think

462
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,240
if my class can do it let's assume that mainstream classes can and they probably do know that they

463
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:38,480
what they need yeah um one of the heroes who came on a workshop once and I was talking about

464
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,720
heavy work and proprioceptive input and I was talking about digging and I don't know if you've

465
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:47,600
seen it on my page I'm always talking about digging patches in your garden and she said

466
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,840
well that's so funny because my child's been digging up our garden for the last six months

467
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:58,000
and I said because he knew that felt good for him he knew that's what he needed children find

468
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,760
what they need but it feels good in their body you know they'll keep doing it so it is funny how

469
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:10,080
children they do just know and then it's about us analyzing that and observing that and thinking

470
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:15,360
okay well what is it they're doing what need is that meeting is it the safest way that they can

471
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,800
meet that what else could we do you know I spent my whole curiosity but we're doing that curiosity

472
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,120
exactly someone said I think this is a really important one to end on actually my son isn't

473
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,040
using his fidgets or noise cancelling headphones because he feels different and this is something

474
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:34,160
I hear about and see a lot being attached to a mainstream school you know they have them in their

475
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:39,040
bag they keep them in their bag or they um don't want to wear the school uniform or the p-kit but

476
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,680
actually then they don't want to look different I hear about that constantly so is that something

477
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:49,680
you've come across and how would you support? I didn't come across that in terms of my children

478
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:55,680
ever feeling like that but um I think it definitely is as children get older for the

479
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:02,720
work with that's definitely more of an issue of supporting secondary schools I think that's where

480
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,840
if that's the case you can't force a child to use that if they don't want to do that in front of

481
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,200
people but I do think it's about the ethos in the classroom how that's being talked about how it's

482
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:20,640
being supported how if that child feels that they're singled out so like I said if you're

483
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:27,760
doing a brain break or a movement break for everybody then it may not be have a fidget wouldn't

484
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:37,840
break and also if you're giving opportunities during the day for everybody time out from noise

485
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:44,800
so I used to do meditation with my class um at least once a day where there was no noise

486
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:50,000
sometimes it was guided meditation sometimes we had classical music sometimes we did Buddhist

487
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:57,360
meditation if you're giving them opportunities to have that quiet time today again their need

488
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:03,920
to block out noise you're already meeting that with the whole class. I feel like we can model

489
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:11,120
it as well can't we like if I mean teachers often feel overwhelmed by the noise in the classroom

490
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:17,280
like we would we often do um what are we doing about it are we modeling using head ear defenders

491
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,080
too maybe we should be you know if we're feeling frustrated are we modeling by using a two ear

492
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,720
I know some SEM teachers do are we modeling just like we're modeling using visuals and we're

493
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,600
modeling safe hands and all of those things maybe we should be modeling using that too I don't know

494
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:38,160
if genuinely like not not not as a gimmick not as a tool but genuinely when we need it we should be

495
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,560
meeting our needs and not ignoring them we as teachers shouldn't be masking our needs we should

496
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:50,720
be meeting them so I don't mean do it anyway I just mean I mean if you genuinely genuinely need it

497
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:56,480
show it and if you don't I think that's why I used to do meditation with the children is because

498
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,840
I could I couldn't handle that noise relentless noise all day and actually when they're at the

499
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:07,680
tables I didn't want them talking non-stop while I was trying to support children so often I would

500
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:14,320
put classical music on during working time because actually that was nice for me to have a bit of

501
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:20,720
quiet and then we can have the crazy and then we can have the dancing but there was also times

502
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:26,240
where we had quiet and I said to the class this is how I'm meeting everyone's needs because some

503
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,640
people will really want this quiet time and okay that doesn't suit all of you but we're going to

504
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:36,880
get up and dance and you can shout you can do that yeah but I think that might not help the parent

505
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,600
because obviously the parents not in charge of what the teacher's doing you can't like in terms

506
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:47,200
of ear defenders I always say have they tried the loop ears because if they are finding the

507
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,240
ear defenders hard in a classroom situation then try the loop ones because and you can have them

508
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:56,080
on different settings so it's totally noise cancelling and they do children's ones yeah they're

509
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,360
really small yeah they've started I think they start from six years up now the children's ones

510
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,080
so I think that's really good and it's really just great isn't it really discreet yeah so I

511
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:11,680
think that helps the ear defenders thing definitely but I think if children are being given opportunities

512
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:17,200
in school where it is that time away from noise because even break time isn't quiet for them

513
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,520
where is their quiet time in the day and maybe not even home either maybe not if they've got

514
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:29,920
siblings at home or so you know it's that thing of people parents often say you know I just went

515
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:36,000
out for 10 minutes I needed a quiet walk and I I say great that's brilliant when does your child

516
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,760
ever get 10 minutes of quiet in their day ever like when when do they have that opportunity created

517
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:49,360
for them so I think the more we do it then that makes kind of I guess the tolerating of noise in

518
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,920
school easier if they know they're being given opportunities outside as well so that's something

519
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,520
as parents we can do and and advocate for that in school if their parents who've heard these

520
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:05,840
suggestions honestly teachers aren't going it is obviously how you suggest it but I've had three

521
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:12,240
parents go in now for meetings last week that all went so well because of how they kind of approached

522
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:19,120
the situation and how they suggested ideas and the teachers were all so welcoming about heavy work

523
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:24,080
and about kind of brain breaks and and I shared all these ideas with the parents it's like please

524
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:29,600
suggest it because if you do it in the nicest way then you know hopefully teachers will take it

525
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:37,040
as a supportive thing but it's it's hard like it's so hard we don't learn this any of this

526
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:43,680
everything we've spoken about today was not covered in teacher training we learned loads about phonics

527
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:49,280
about 90 percent phonics about five percent maths and the rest of it was you know um not about

528
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,200
anything at all I can't remember we certainly didn't learn about regulation we certainly didn't

529
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:58,560
learn about how to you know manage the class in this way so so don't assume that teachers know

530
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:04,160
best just assume that we're all trying to work it out as as we go through just like just like everyone

531
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:11,040
is and yeah and and every class is different and every class brings new learning opportunities and

532
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,560
parents are the experts in their children and I'm sure you agree that's your own child and

533
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,240
apparently except in their children if you feel like your child would benefit from something we've

534
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:23,040
spoken about today then you're their advocate you're their voice and and um yeah I urge you

535
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:29,600
to voice that nobody don't worry about being that parent I love that parent please do it where it's

536
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:36,240
a badge of honor honestly go in advocate for your child and any teachers listening just believe

537
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:41,840
parents no parent is coming to you making this up because why would we why would a parent come in

538
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,960
say that my child's coming home and throwing chairs and biting me and melting down even if it

539
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,760
feels really unbelievable sometimes why would because I've been in that situation I thought

540
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,320
what hang on like this is not the child I'm seeing but why would I have questioned that parent I

541
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:01,920
didn't for a second thing hang on you must be wrong yeah it was just you become defensive

542
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,760
because you're like well it must be something at home it can't be school and I've fallen into

543
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,600
that trap too of course of course you know it just doesn't work like that we all need to be

544
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:17,920
looking at the holistic picture and all have a part to play in the regulation of the children

545
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:23,680
don't we and I think ultimately all teachers go into teaching because they want yeah because you

546
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:29,360
love children you want to help them and you want to be the best teacher one that I'd like to end

547
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:35,680
with any teachers who are listening is one of the best things you can do is to we focus quite a lot

548
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,760
on the things that our children or certain children might not be able to do or what they

549
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:46,880
find difficult find the things they can do really really well and find as many opportunities as you

550
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:53,040
can for that and create those opportunities I created like special races just for children

551
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:58,080
because they were good at long distance running and that got created in school and really celebrate

552
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:03,840
celebrate as big as reading and as big as maths everything that they can do if you know that child's

553
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:09,120
really helpful give them jobs like whatever that child is good at if they love dinosaurs

554
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,880
do dinosaur maths as often as you can just some children are really responsible then they're

555
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,840
they're really not academic but they're really responsible and independent yeah give them that

556
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:25,760
opportunity and really make a big deal out of it be your helper like because all teachers need helpers

557
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:30,880
let them stay in if they need to every now and again like come in 10 minutes from lunch and be

558
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,280
the helper I guess what it comes down to trust the parents trust the children yeah doesn't it

559
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:42,640
this whole chat is assume that the child knows what they are talking about I don't know I think

560
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:48,320
I just gave us a little gift yeah trust the child that they know what they need and what they are

561
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:53,360
doing is genuinely needed trust the parent that they know their child and they know what's best

562
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:59,360
for them and then if it feels good do more of it I think I got nose doesn't it if nobody likes

563
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,640
shouting nobody feels better goes home at the end of the day oh that was a lovely shouty day

564
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:09,600
you know nobody does that no teachers want to do that I think teachers are you know hugely

565
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:15,600
overwhelmed and dysregulated as well a lot of time and I think you know just be okay with asking for

566
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:24,000
help as well and just trust yourself yeah exactly um I have been speaking to you Kate I've been

567
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:30,560
to you for so long it's so important I found it really validating actually because yeah I really

568
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:36,560
don't know this stuff this is this is new to me I kind of dipped my toe in I see it from the outside

569
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,000
if I wanted to be realistic I never want to give advice that isn't realistic so I find it really

570
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,280
validating so thank you for that yeah it was help anyone listening I'm sure you have I'm sure you

571
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:50,640
have please everybody watching this now or in the future please follow nurtured neuro kids

572
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:56,400
she says so much great stuff in there for parents and teachers and beyond actually for all children

573
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:09,280
but especially those new urgent learners thank you so much thanks for having me