Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for
everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled
pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions
and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody. I am being joined by a nurtured neuro kids today which I'm so excited about. She
is an ex-teacher and autistic mum as well. So we can hear about two sides. She's from a teacher
point of view, so mainstream teacher and how she manages her classroom with neurodivergent children
in the classroom in mainstream which is obviously new to me. It's something that I've never been a
mainstream teacher before so I'm so hoping to learn in order to better help mainstream teachers.
But also from the parenting point of view, you know, she's a parent of an autistic child and has
chosen to home school. So we're going to talk about all those kind of things today. Hi, how are you
doing? I'm good, and you? Yeah, I'm really good. Hi. Thank you so much for joining me. We've had
this in the diary for a few weeks now and we've been talking all about your ideas. So do you want
to give us first of all like a little introduction? I've done a little one but do you want to tell us
from your perspective? I started coaching and started sort of my coaching business around home
educating my son. So my coaching business works to allow me to stay at home because I wouldn't be
able to carry on teaching. I kind of gave that up for having my son anyway but yes, so this work
allows me to be able to home educate my son and to be able to support parents through, I guess,
all my professional knowledge and kind of my personal experience. I always say it's like the
best of my brain and my best of my heart and my head because it's like both worlds that comes
together and I guess my page, my Instagram page, is snippets of what I do in coaching and lives
and posts to try and empower parents and yeah just feel like they have more resources I guess. They
have someone there to, I don't know, to make them feel like they're less alone and that's what lots
of people have said to me is kind of it can feel like you're really on your own. Would you say that
your main audience is parents of neurodivergent children or not? Do you work with a range of
parents in that sense? Yes, I think they are. Whether they're finding that out or not, yes,
I guess my main audience is I have schools following me. Some schools, more now, nurseries,
which is great. I love that but mainly I think parents and parents finding me for different
reasons. Some people are already kind of well on their journey understanding their child. Some
people are right at the very beginning. They may be awaiting a diagnosis or thinking is this something
that I need to explore. Yeah all different kind of and some are like really young children, sort of
three and then others that I support and on my page have older children, sort of teenagers. So
it's a huge mixture isn't it? Yeah, a real range. That you support. That's really great isn't it?
That you can, it makes it more interesting for you as well I guess. Yeah it's also really hard.
Yeah, it's interesting that you went into education through psychology. Did you do
psychology before teaching? Yeah so I did my psychology A level and then a B degree.
Okay. And then because I wanted to, I actually really loved the clinical part of my psychology
degree. I loved it so much but I just didn't think that that was the right fit for me. And like I'm
a total empath and I just thought I'm not sure I can do this as my main job. And so then I thought
well I'll do educational psychology. I've always loved working with children. I kind of wanted to
be on the ground level working with children. And then as I kind of was doing more shadowing and
working, I then realized actually it's not so much what I thought it was. I thought I would be kind of
assessing children and then working with them to support them. You don't do you? No. You hop in,
you make almost like a make a snap judgment. It feels as a teacher working with educational
psychologists. We get four hours a year with an educational psychologist. Yeah. But it's such a
snapshot. It really is like do this, this and this right. See ya. They don't get that opportunity
and that satisfaction to see what's happening. And a lot of the educational psychologists I spoke to
said it's quite lonely because there's a lot of report writing. And I thought okay that doesn't
really suit me. So you already you had to qualify having done your psychology degree. You had to go
and teach and have done teaching for at least two years to get back onto the training. So I was
already planning on doing that and I was already teaching. And then while I was doing it I just
thought I don't know if that's the right route for me. So I'll just stay teaching because I'm loving
it for now. And yes and I think progressively I loved it less and less sadly towards the end. I
think it's really common as well. But it was mainstream teaching wasn't it? Mainstream teaching
yes. And sort of worked in lots of different schools around London mainly. I did supply as
well as kind of long hauling it in one school. I was always given the kind of the more challenging
class. The classes of the highest. Really? Educating psychologists? And yeah I mean I loved it because
it's I guess it was kind of what I got known for and what I was yeah what I was good at I guess.
They saw it in you didn't they? Yeah I think so yes. And some classes I actually ended up
they then wanted me to take them up to the following year. So I stayed with the children
for two years or sometimes I taught a class in say year three and then I went up to year six and
taught them again. So yeah it was really lovely. It's nice yeah. So I've started this life by
completely admitting I have a lot of mainstream teachers follow me. Yeah. Where but I feel like
I'm quite naive in what is realistic to offer because I know what I would do in a situation
with a child but I've only got 10 children in my class and I have eight adults. It is an incredibly
different situation. Sometimes when I'm giving advice I think well I know what I would do
but am I being naive? Am I being realistic in the advice the resources the time given?
I really that's why when you reached out I jumped at the chance because I just thought I really want
to have other thoughts and ideas on this because this isn't my expertise. What SEN in mainstream
is not is not what I have ever done. My classroom is attached to a mainstream school but it's very
much specialist provision. You have to have an HCP to be part of it and I've always been special
ed so I am naive to what's realistic. So do you have three realistic resources that you could
share with us or support systems that mainstream teachers can start in their classrooms to support
their either autistic or new idiovergent students in their class this year? What would you suggest
they looked into? One of the biggest things is what you can do for the whole class to benefit
the sort of the children who really need something specifically. For example if we're talking about
children who need regular brain and movement breaks then hit the whole class with that
because you're quite often going to be a teacher on your own with 30 children and you're not just
looking at like neurodivergent children in terms of who you need to support. You might have children
in there with no English and you might have children in there who are coming from a really
challenging kind of home situation and need your emotional support as well during the day. So
there is a lot to do and so for any teachers out there like please know that when especially on
my page it's never about teacher bashing it's simply kind of is the issue is the system and
I'm all for changing the system but right now we have to change it in the classroom because
if that comes it's not going to come soon. From the inside out almost. Bottom up like it would
have to be that way so I think yeah what you can do for the whole class so like in New Zealand
it's incredible and they've been doing so many years that they start every day with some form
of movement whether it's dance or you know aerobics and it's just like part of every school
and so often I find that one of the frustrations with parents is that everything is different in
every school and it is down to the teachers so any teachers out there and it's almost no excuse
for why a child can't have brain and movement breaks really regularly. Brain breaks can be the
simplest thing. I say have you got some examples of what because often I share like what I do like
exercise balls or weighted blankets think well we haven't got 30 of those how do we do that so
could you share some like realistic mainstream ideas? Like a really short brain break would be
right everyone copy me and you just be starting to do different things so you're switching trying to
get them to really concentrate and it becomes silly you're just and you can get them to stand
up and do it or you can do it I do it when they're on the carpet right pens down eyes on me let's go
and we do this for like a few minutes just anything you know five and they shout out how
many fingers I'm holding up really simple things like that that you can do several times throughout
let's say in English like that might be an hour long so like break it up with little brain breaks
then you've got your movement breaks because brain breaks can be done when they're sitting on the
carpet or sitting at the table movement breaks obviously you need to get up and move so when
they're going you could do it maybe once on the carpet when they're going from the carpet to their
tables do a movement break then which also is kind of a brain break you're doing so a quick Simon
says is a really good obviously not Simon says you do as a teacher you know that's a really fun one
to do as well or sometimes yeah in the middle and then if you've got kind of a 15 20 minute section
of the lesson where they're at their tables working do something after 10 minutes so in the
middle of that again pens down eyes on me right stand up and and then we do something just really
physical and to begin with at the start of term it takes a while like yeah they'll be really it's
really hard to rein everyone back in like you might be so that might be you also so these teachers
that are hearing this don't just try it once and think oh no that was chaos I'm never doing that
again it probably is chaos because it's something they might have never done before but trust me
that the more you do it it just becomes routine and so then when I would do it everyone would know
and I did it in the middle of Ofsted you know I'm not I wouldn't be scared of that because I knew
everybody knew kind of what happened we did this and then right everyone back to it oh yeah yeah
have that renewed kind of right now I've got my idea I'm gonna go again and so I think those
sorts of things when you've got you know especially reports coming in saying this child needs regular
brain breaks movement breaks do it for everyone every child will benefit from that especially
younger children should be moving so I think those are the things you can do but also make games
in your lessons when you're doing maths or something in input try and get movement games
so like I used to do splat where we'd run up and splat the board I'd get them writing on white boards
because actually if every child has a white board and they're all writing and then you hold it up
as quick as you can or or we tell each other's tell the person next to you and then let them
go around the table or things like that that you can do anything that you can do that is just
breaking up listening I'm talking you're listening everyone's sitting no like that's just not going
to be the most inclusive way so I think if you can meet the needs of whether it's two five however
many in your class if you do it on a whole class level you're actually then ticking the boxes
all of them so everyone's benefiting aren't they no one's missing out on them because
and it's almost like you're catching it before they really really need it you're giving those
regular input every you said about 10 minutes so every you know half lesson those regular inputs
means it never gets to do this regulation it never gets to the point it shouldn't get to the point
where they're an absolute crisis and you're having to evacuate the classroom or you're having to
which you know just focus on this one yeah and that's like my principle in pretty much all my
coaching as well is you know what can we do before it's all about proactive strategies what are we
doing before our children are reaching meltdowns what can you do before they become dysregulated
so have these regulation resets all the time so that you're just letting that pressure valve out
rather than being reactive and thinking oh totally I think you need a movement breaker it's too late
they're already in crisis like how do we parent when a child's having a meltdown they're already
in it it happened before it happens before you do it yeah it's all the stuff beforehand and it's
the same in schools like don't wait till anyone is dysregulated before you put in support and
so I think it's that thing assume that they're all going to be dysregulated or they're guessing
that assume they're frustrated right now because if you assume that they're getting there then you
can put things in and then even if they're not it doesn't hurt it really doesn't hurt and you know
same with my son if he's not angry then I'll still be giving him opportunities to let out anger even
showing me any you know these are things this is like proactive parenting or teaching never get to
the point where it's unmanageable for his body and I found it on inset day I don't know if any other
teachers here found that but we were sitting for 45 minutes at a time and then we had a break 45
minutes and I thought my goodness I am really struggling like after 15 minutes it was I I mean
I'm neurodivergent anyway but I could look around me and I could see people like playing with their
scrunchies wiggling their knee like fidgeting in their chair and I thought we've had enough and
we're adults how are we asking these five-year-olds or 11-year-olds to sit for such a long time we
need to be practicing what we preach always in those inset days don't we so if you're
leading on those trainings we kind of need to be offering that don't we as well and I think
I did a talk um a little while back with a child psychologist and we were talking about like
diagnosing the environment not our children actually I think so much of the dysregulation we
see isn't necessarily to do with anything other than what we're asking our children to do and if
we're asking them to sit for an hour you know in a classroom without moving that's really unrealistic
so and I think if you if you look at it and in a lot of the sort of um British Dyslexia Association
websites and the National Autistic um website will sort of talk about these reasonable adjustments
and when they talk about kind of movement or brain breaks it will be suggested about 10 to 15 minutes
because at the it's not just the children who need to move for dyslexic pupils it will be the kind of
mental exhaustion and fatigue that they're experiencing after 10 or 15 minutes everyone
kind of needs that reset get up move and I think if you look at your lesson in those chunks
and kind of it becomes so much easier to work that into so that's kind of one of my biggest things
yeah so good practice to answer that question I kind of ran out question then is if it's needed
if it's needed for one then it's good for all so I always say and I guess this goes with it good
autism practice is good practice it's just like everybody will benefit from movement breaks
everybody will benefit from having something predictable everyone will benefit from having
visuals in the room even if it's not a need it's a want often usually and I had a visual timetable
up to the whole class you know then it benefits again it benefits everybody and I would talk
through it in the morning this is what we did today now some children had that on their tables
as well and I made them their own copy right duplicate of what I had so again no one's feeling
single day is in your mind is that inclusion is it is it because we hear about equity we hear about
equality like in my mind treating everyone the same isn't always inclusion but actually I think
what we're talking about here is equity we are offering everybody the opportunity to be regulated
everybody the opportunity to have visuals because one child that doesn't need it 99 days at the
school year might need it that day so it's almost like just making sure you have all the tools out
there and available for those that need it at once and that to me sounds like inclusion I think
that's the thing I think sometimes yes it is about inclusion and sometimes it's about equity so I
think there's different aspects of the day where that's true but if you've got one child in your
class for example who has an adhd diagnosis and that child is being made to stand up on their own
and walk to the bin and back and that's being used as their movement break then that's not okay for
me because how does that one child feel also that's not an adequate movement break yeah and it
doesn't need to be like that and also you know parents coming to me saying you know teachers
have said that there isn't an opportunity for a movement break they're all the time I hear it all
the time they're always you know embrace the fun of that dance like put music on and dance like in
between that we would dance you know we've got 10 minutes let's pack up 10 minutes for lunch let's
all dance so that when they go out into the playground they're not filled with kind of I
mean this is music to my ears because this is the advice I've been given and I've been so worried
that it's completely unrealistic I've been saying uh things like if if you haven't got time to do it
like it's almost like it's worth spending the five minutes dancing yeah for really focused 15
minutes but not taking that 10 minutes and disruption happening behavior happening
focus happening mistakes happening whatever you'll always spend the time you always spend the time
managing something will you manage it before kind of proactively or are you going to then be in like
reactive mode right now I've got to put out the fires because this has happened and this has
happened on the playground because no doubt that child is dysregulated having to sit still 45
minutes went out to the playground someone pushed them well they're probably going to react because
their nervous system is really dysregulated so give them a chance do that before you go out now
I know that that's not easy for everyone to do and some some teachers happy standing up and dancing
with their class and some aren't but you can do it in a way that suits you also I always think for
that one I always say if you're embarrassed if you're thinking about your like that means you're
thinking about yourself in that moment so as soon as you feel pride or embarrassment you need to
need to switch your brain back to them because in that moment you are more focused on yourself than
you are on them yeah if you're not embarrassed it's because your focus is in the right place
it's not that it's not embarrassing yeah it's just it's not about you like that's how I feel
it's love it like even in year six no one ever criticized my dancing like they just want they
just love the fact you're getting up and doing it with them like nobody ever sniggered about what I
was doing although I was a bad dancer because they just love the fact they did and if they did like
I'm not there to impress like the year sixes like I'm just not funny I would never win that anyway
because I'm so uncool someone just said something that I think is really important someone said
movement doesn't have to be big movement always it needs to just be drip fed into everything we do
so if you're a teacher and you're hearing what we're saying and you are thinking but I've already
got so much to do I can't add this in as well it might feel like that initially it might feel like
something extra initially that you've got to add to your workload but if you do it regularly enough
it will become embedded and it will become just part of your language of teaching and it will
become effortless and easy and it will just be something that you just do like breathing or
toilet breaks or whatever um yeah phrases that you just say now that you just do without thinking and
I would like to think if you did movement breaks enough that that will become part of the language
of just your class I'm not asking anybody to do anything that I didn't do that wasn't realistic
and I know we used to have these like flip folders of all these ideas of brain breaks and actually
I didn't I didn't scroll through those I just kind of made my own things up really organic in the
moment children don't mind what you do if you just literally are counting on your hands that's you
know give them a clapping pattern or something or have to be massive movements always I think
obviously there's some children who will need that and very kind of comes into sensory breaks as well
which is but some is better than none right so even if you're doing just clapping breaks that's
better than not doing anything at all and I think that's the thing is some people think and parents
as well it goes for parenting I don't have time to do that big thing and and I think everyone
thinks that generally in life I don't have time to do an hour of exercise I've already got so much
yeah whereas actually 10 minutes would be better than nothing and when I um one of the workshops I
do is on um sensory regulation I talk about the body budget and how we're filling up our children's
sensory cups and I always sort of say you know we talk a lot about kind of the monetary value
if you don't have time to put 10 pounds back in their kind of body budget then put 20p in or 5p
because anything is better than nothing and you might stop them from going overdrawn and that's
when it's tricky I love that you can just put a little bit back in then just do that like if
you've got two minutes before school to give their hand a little squeeze do that because it's better
than nothing so yeah a quick clap or just wave jazz hands let's do jazz hands for like 10 seconds
is better than nothing at all and it does just become part of your day and those imagine it
becomes a muscle that you almost have to exercise and children coming into my room knew that they
knew what to expect they knew what the day looked like they knew that this wasn't an opportunity to
kind of tear around the room going crazy because we were doing it regularly enough through the day
they didn't need to and so I think yeah work through it if it feels chaotic it's to the
begin with just like go with it just kind of keep it going give it you know a good three or four
weeks try and get like everyone into the routine of it I think those would be that's like my one
biggest takeaway is to kind of meet the needs of a few with the whole class where you don't need to
single people out don't but also assume every child needs to move and have so I mean that leaves me
on to my next question actually um I've mentioned the word inclusion I mentioned the word equity
just then I kind of thought your body go yeah so I'm talking about that because I'm it's something I'm
talking about as well obviously as a special ed teacher yeah I'm interested in inclusion within
mainstream school because I'm attached to a mainstream school but I want that to look as
inclusive and affirming as possible is there such thing you know what are your feelings on inclusion
in mainstream and if you're pro it why and how can it be achieved effectively and if you're anti it
why and what is the impact on that I know it's a big question but it's something I've been mulling
over this term in particularly it's really huge I think if we're assuming that you know inclusion is
everyone kind of is given an equal opportunity to resources and you know and those opportunities
in school whereas equity is we're meeting individual needs to be able to access that
I think there's a time and a place for both and it also really really depends on the needs of the
child so there cannot be a blanket statement of that across and you know I would have children
who I guess now probably would be better suited to specialist resource provision school or setting
but were in mainstream kind of when I was started teaching and there was a lot less of those schools
around than there are now even though there's not enough now and so we had children in our
classroom who were non-speaking and who weren't necessarily accessing the curriculum that I was
teaching and sometimes that was really hard because these are the children who need kind of
different sensory input a lot they need to stim loudly they need to kind of run and in the middle
of a science experiment that's really hard to manage and sometimes I would have my class saying
to me can we please leave the classroom because this is too much for us and sometimes then there
were children who wouldn't be able to be removed by the adult who's working with them because that
was too challenging so I would have to remove my 28 or 29 children though sometimes I would have
to remove them because sometimes it is hard and sometimes I think and with parents I work with a
lot is that thing of which is the right setting is this setting right for them and one boy who
actually he was in my class for year three and year six I actually fought against the school
and sometimes the professionals coming in that he shouldn't be included in every single lesson
non-speaking in year six and he didn't need to sit in a French lesson I agree in fact I don't
think that's inclusion I think people think inclusion is including yes and that's not what
it means inclusion means they have equal enjoyment opportunity and opportunities to engage as
everybody else that might look from the outside as exclusion yes so for example let's imagine
there's an assembly and it's a drumming workshop basically schools do that right like there's a
drumming workshop there's people have come in it's really exciting we paid for this drumming
workshop but I have a child who has severe anxiety over unpredictable noises and to change their
routine what does inclusion look like in my mind inclusion looks like giving them the opportunity
they can join if they want to but also giving the opportunity that they don't want to it's choices
it's giving them consent and honoring that consent that's me it's like inclusion even though someone
walking in and seeing them in a completely different one from everyone else it looks like
exclusion in my mind that's inclusion I think if we were to force them into an environment like
that they clearly don't want to they're very like clearly not wanting to be a part of and they're
not happy and they are voicing that in their body or whatever way they can and we are for the sake
of inclusion making them be part of that I that's not inclusion in my mind that is that is exclusion
even though they are physically with their peers that is exclusion because you're not considering
their you're not respecting them you're not considering their needs wants or the impact
on their mental health honestly I think it's considering their yeah their needs as well as
their wants and I think what you're saying very rarely happens in schools it's everybody is in
that room you're all in that room and the amount especially around Christmas and stuff everybody
goes to the Christmas performance same with lunch times everyone goes into that room for lunch why
and I think people with good intentions sometimes I think people are so terrified of excluding
children because they hear we've got to be inclusive we've got to be inclusive and I think
they're so they really are confusing the word inclusion with including and it isn't the same
what I think people used to be quite taken aback that I was kind of fighting for this child to be
partially because it looks like I was trying to get rid of them or that I was excluding them from
this I was like but this child is spending a good kind of thing not being able to access
this curriculum they need the things that is their curriculum where are their needs being met
let's not you know dial down French so that they I think the inclusion part of it is that you they
always have the opportunity so for example like we are attached to a mainstream school they do
assembly every Friday they do a praise assembly it's lovely I really try hard to encourage my
learners to attend I did a whole term at the end of summer and I was the only one there none of my
kids wanted to go and I honoured that but it was inclusive because I gave them the opportunity to
go I provided them with symbols so that they could tell me but I also honoured their consent that they
didn't want to go this last week we had our first one back and three of them came awesome three out
of 12 that's awesome yeah that's inclusion they all had the opportunity to attend but they also
were respected enough yeah but this isn't for you today and that's awesome and I think in schools
where that comes about is to do with manpower and people be and I've got such a luxury with that
yeah let's say there are children who can't attend that assembly or there's children who struggle
every lunchtime out on the playground and there's great examples of how schools are meeting this
you know children who can't go into the lunch hall is who are the adults who are doing that now I gave up
I would give up my lunchtimes and I would have children in my room because to be honest I was
marking every lunchtime so that I didn't take it home so if I had children who wanted to come and
eat their lunch in that room they knew they had to do it quietly because I was working but yeah
they can do that rather than go somewhere else but I think you know there's schools that have
amazing nurture groups happening at lunchtimes to support children who can't tolerate the kind
of environment and it might just be that day like we have a lady whose full-time job is pastoral
care and she always has a lunchtime group and sometimes I'm my classroom's right next to her
so sometimes I'll see a child I've never seen before because they just weren't feeling that
day or something's happening at home and they they just need that extra support whereas other
children are there every day yeah and I think that's the thing there needs to be any opportunity
I think at a lunch or play any child needs to know there's somewhere for them to go and that's where
schools need to utilize parents because within your parent community you might have someone who
is amazing at arts and will run an art nurture group or you've got the keen gardeners who'll
set up a garden like please school will set up gardening groups if we have a space you know
things like that get those kids to come and dig a flower bed with you I think if you don't have the
resources in school to pay for it go and ask your parents like don't be scared to involve parents
in this we also had because we were struggling with the needs and wants of our learners not
wanting to go into mainstream it just caused them really high anxiety we brought mainstream
class into our resource base and that was so positive so we had some year sixes that really
wanted to do it they were begging their teacher to come in actually and support us but actually
what we found was there was no support needed they were just playing as equals in our resource base
and that wouldn't have happened if we were included in mainstream they would have been such anxiety
where there'd have been dysregulation they'd have been unsafe behaviors honestly because their
anxiety would be so high but let's flip the script let's do inclusion the other way and include the
year sixes in our classroom where our children feel comfortable and safe and actually in control
because they know far more in our environment than visitors do that's also inclusion right
really really nice example of how to do it and if there are obviously any teachers who have kind of
a specialist resource class attached then that would be such a nice idea to do it that way
let's don't be scared of it I feel like if teachers are scared of it then even if we're not saying it
children almost they're very intuitive and they will feel scared too whereas if they're happy to
visit and they're asking about visiting I say let them what's the worst that can happen they might
make then a bond with a child that makes them feel more comfortable if we go into that if we go into
the school then you can go and see Louie because you know we can see where he sits for his slight
learning oh totally it would definitely make my learners feel more accepted when out in the
corridor and when going out to play time or when possibly going into class for golden time which
is what we something that we try and do they'll recognize faces they'll be greeted at the door by
name there isn't that fear of difference and there's pressure because those people have already
their smaller setting and more relaxed settings so it is more formal going the other way around in
a way and a bigger kind of jump I guess for them so I think yeah I think that's really lovely way to
to do inclusion the other way around so someone has said a lot of children where I work struggle
to come in after break and lunch yeah they just run around and ignore the bell is now in my mind
I don't know if you'd agree it's because we're only doing the first step of a movement break
we've heightened them so much it's almost like come on everybody let's jump around and then
expecting them to be calm afterwards no their heart is racing like crazy their body's going
their adrenaline's going their dopamine is full to the brim yeah and then we're asking them to sit
down and concentrate in my mind we need something in between me to bridge the gap between play time
and chasing and running and football and sitting down and focusing and in my class we do we do a
three-step approach so it's sensory circuits we do that that real high impact alerting and then
we do some organizing it might be an obstacle course or like you said cross body stuff and then
it's grounding it might be it might be some squeezes or some humming or some breathing
and then and then that you're grounded and ready to focus I think so many people think I've done
the movement breaks what's you know what's gone wrong that is what I kind of tell parents to do
at home but it is trickier obviously to do in school but I think how does it look in school
you can do that by I think like the whole thing of a bell being wrong and then children are lining
up is quite formal I think and I think if a teacher goes out onto the playground and again
engages in some sort of movement with the child if you meet the child in their environment whether
that's you know sitting next to your child whilst they're watching television before you ask them
that that needs to be turned off it's the same thing go and meet your children in the playground
doing whatever they need to do I guess it's less defense like they they meet with less defense
isn't it it's less demanding less demand on their kind of you know for any children who feel that
pressure of demand but also drawing them out of something that they're having the best time doing
kind of engage them in something that looks a little bit as fun where if you come out and
start doing like a simon says thing at the front of the line and your children can then gradually
come over and join that's a nice flow as well isn't it rather than like cut and finish if you're
joining them you can play with the natural ending to their game can't you I find that with my kids
actually it's it's one to one but it makes no difference if I was just to come and say right
come on it's time for hello now and they're halfway through a puzzle or halfway through something
that's gonna be very different than if I sit next to them we complete the puzzle together and then
I say it's time to finish because I we can feel the natural ending and then the natural transition
begins and so I guess it's the same I think the end and then you're creating a really hard transition
is challenging so I think you know with children at home or anything there always has to be a
warning to the thing that they're loving is going to come to an end it's easier than you just say
right but it'd be like someone coming in and hanging up your phone while you're in the middle
of chatting to your friend you're like I was in the middle of talking to them you wouldn't be very
your partner it's not very respectful isn't it and I get that in schools there's a greater time
pressure in a mainstream school because if you're still in the playground messing around generally
the head teachers are not going to love that so I think what would be nice in a school is I don't
know if people could work out a way to signal to children that there's a five minute kind of five
minute before the end of play because then in a way they know okay well I'm not going to get to
play they could wind up their game or they could wind up their football game or whatever yeah
transition out of that would be really would be I think I mean I never had any problems with children
coming in because I think I'd like to think that they thought there was something fun they were
coming in for so that's also the point right and that's I guess like you said all autism
practice is good practice it's just I think in my room it's just like a magnifying glass on it
but yeah exactly I say if the kids don't want to join my group area it's not their problem it's
because I'm not being fun enough or it's I'm not being engaging enough or I'm not meeting where
they're at enough and I guess it is the same in some senses if your lessons are meeting their needs
in their movement needs in the same way they won't be so precious about their play time because they
know it's okay because we get to move again in 10 minutes get to move again in 15 minutes I think
that need that they have in the playground will be as great anyway and then I think there's less
pressure thinking oh I've got to go back into that room and sit for an hour of course you're not
going to want to come in off the playground why would you so I think if there's something that a
child is dreading then they're unlikely to come running in and doing that happily whereas if yeah
if those things have been met if they feel they're coming into an inclusive space where the teacher
understands them and the teacher believes them then I think they'll be more willing to come
into that space anyway and I think it's when parents have said to me you know how do you go about
um telling a class that this child's having a fidget but they're not allowed to fidget
although I never had I never remember children questioning why one child was doing this and
another there's a really easy answer to that isn't there I think yeah I saw an amazing TikTok the
other day I mean tick that's wonderful all the stuff like this but the teacher literally just
said they brought the tallest person from the class and she said oh could you reach that for me
oh thanks brought the shortest one could you reach that for me oh oh you can't reach it oh okay it
wasn't fair that I asked you that was it just like it's not fair that I asked you to sit without a
fidget and you don't need one yeah it really is as simple as that and children don't need any more
explanation than that it doesn't like to be a really big complicated you know they need it yeah
somebody else doesn't need it they they're going out to read every day because they need to you
know they need reading practice if you sat and think thought about it not that you'd necessarily
word it like this but you know you don't need that reading practice we all know kind of why some
people are going and reading more often we know that some people yeah and I think if your classroom
is inclusive actually those questions don't come about and if your classroom is led with kind of
lots of yeah movement lots of opportunities for fun then also the other children may be feeling
less like and or they'll need to say they don't need a fidget resource like I'm almost hesitant
to call it a fidget toy I know you did a post about this this week but it's like a fidget fidget
equipment like who are we to say that even if they've never needed one or they usually focus
well they might just need it that day they might just see that little bit of comfort that day and
and then what do you look for when say for example a child is seeking a fidget they don't usually
seek it yeah and they are fidgeting how do you know as a teacher at the front if it is benefiting
them or not like what things do you look for I mean I think the fidget thing which is kind of
what my post is about is that fidgets got I think when the kind of fidget spinners started it became
a mainstream toy and they advertised as mainstream toys and fun and so I think in a way it took away
from the fact that they're a regulatory tool and they're really important for that and so I think
with it becoming more mainstream people are scared of what fidgets are in the classroom and I think
they're seen as this thing that they can be noisy they can be distracting people are playing with
them so I think there's different things when I did one of my workshops last week which was on
advocating for your child's needs in school and I talked to the parents lots about fidgets and
look if you're sending a sensory kit into school then this might be a really good fidget
child to have at the table because it's not making a noise they can have it on their lap
it's not interfering with anything if they bring in a tube no one's going to have a pop tube as a
fidget on a table so if you do that then the child next to them probably isn't going to be able to
concentrate because someone's but they get the same movement and the same need yeah needs met by the
so I said you know these could be great in their sensory toolkit that they take to school that they
can use at break or lunch when they need to kind of or if they're lucky enough to go out and get a
fidget break with somebody at some point that's in assembly the fidgets that they need that kind
of meet a different sensory need for them classroom yes it is right that the fidgets where possible
are not distracting because the science of fidgets isn't that we've got something we're playing with
it's something that we're doing whilst our primary focus yes someone said shift the language from
playing to using or utilizing yeah and it's so true isn't it um it's exactly that I'm with the
toy we're using it by using this I'm enabling my attention to stay with the teacher because I'm not
focusing on oh I need to move I need to stand up I feel really uncomfortable this is helping me to
meet that need so that I can focus on the teacher yeah I think if teachers understood what the
science of of fidget tools is not fidgeting but fidget tools then I think that's different but
I've seen this really beautiful um example somewhere on instagram from a school I think
in Australia where they had a fidget box and any child could take a fidget from that box at any
point in the classroom at any point of the day it was just out there for all of them and I think on
the tables they had resistant bands so that any child could use them for their eggs I think in my
mind that's how I would want it to look I think because some days I need more than others who are
we to say they don't need it in my mind I think even very young children incredibly self-aware
lots of my children in my class are incredibly self-aware they meet their sensory needs
might not be in this most safe appropriate way they certainly meet their sensory needs and I think
if my class can do it let's assume that mainstream classes can and they probably do know that they
what they need yeah um one of the heroes who came on a workshop once and I was talking about
heavy work and proprioceptive input and I was talking about digging and I don't know if you've
seen it on my page I'm always talking about digging patches in your garden and she said
well that's so funny because my child's been digging up our garden for the last six months
and I said because he knew that felt good for him he knew that's what he needed children find
what they need but it feels good in their body you know they'll keep doing it so it is funny how
children they do just know and then it's about us analyzing that and observing that and thinking
okay well what is it they're doing what need is that meeting is it the safest way that they can
meet that what else could we do you know I spent my whole curiosity but we're doing that curiosity
exactly someone said I think this is a really important one to end on actually my son isn't
using his fidgets or noise cancelling headphones because he feels different and this is something
I hear about and see a lot being attached to a mainstream school you know they have them in their
bag they keep them in their bag or they um don't want to wear the school uniform or the p-kit but
actually then they don't want to look different I hear about that constantly so is that something
you've come across and how would you support? I didn't come across that in terms of my children
ever feeling like that but um I think it definitely is as children get older for the
work with that's definitely more of an issue of supporting secondary schools I think that's where
if that's the case you can't force a child to use that if they don't want to do that in front of
people but I do think it's about the ethos in the classroom how that's being talked about how it's
being supported how if that child feels that they're singled out so like I said if you're
doing a brain break or a movement break for everybody then it may not be have a fidget wouldn't
break and also if you're giving opportunities during the day for everybody time out from noise
so I used to do meditation with my class um at least once a day where there was no noise
sometimes it was guided meditation sometimes we had classical music sometimes we did Buddhist
meditation if you're giving them opportunities to have that quiet time today again their need
to block out noise you're already meeting that with the whole class. I feel like we can model
it as well can't we like if I mean teachers often feel overwhelmed by the noise in the classroom
like we would we often do um what are we doing about it are we modeling using head ear defenders
too maybe we should be you know if we're feeling frustrated are we modeling by using a two ear
I know some SEM teachers do are we modeling just like we're modeling using visuals and we're
modeling safe hands and all of those things maybe we should be modeling using that too I don't know
if genuinely like not not not as a gimmick not as a tool but genuinely when we need it we should be
meeting our needs and not ignoring them we as teachers shouldn't be masking our needs we should
be meeting them so I don't mean do it anyway I just mean I mean if you genuinely genuinely need it
show it and if you don't I think that's why I used to do meditation with the children is because
I could I couldn't handle that noise relentless noise all day and actually when they're at the
tables I didn't want them talking non-stop while I was trying to support children so often I would
put classical music on during working time because actually that was nice for me to have a bit of
quiet and then we can have the crazy and then we can have the dancing but there was also times
where we had quiet and I said to the class this is how I'm meeting everyone's needs because some
people will really want this quiet time and okay that doesn't suit all of you but we're going to
get up and dance and you can shout you can do that yeah but I think that might not help the parent
because obviously the parents not in charge of what the teacher's doing you can't like in terms
of ear defenders I always say have they tried the loop ears because if they are finding the
ear defenders hard in a classroom situation then try the loop ones because and you can have them
on different settings so it's totally noise cancelling and they do children's ones yeah they're
really small yeah they've started I think they start from six years up now the children's ones
so I think that's really good and it's really just great isn't it really discreet yeah so I
think that helps the ear defenders thing definitely but I think if children are being given opportunities
in school where it is that time away from noise because even break time isn't quiet for them
where is their quiet time in the day and maybe not even home either maybe not if they've got
siblings at home or so you know it's that thing of people parents often say you know I just went
out for 10 minutes I needed a quiet walk and I I say great that's brilliant when does your child
ever get 10 minutes of quiet in their day ever like when when do they have that opportunity created
for them so I think the more we do it then that makes kind of I guess the tolerating of noise in
school easier if they know they're being given opportunities outside as well so that's something
as parents we can do and and advocate for that in school if their parents who've heard these
suggestions honestly teachers aren't going it is obviously how you suggest it but I've had three
parents go in now for meetings last week that all went so well because of how they kind of approached
the situation and how they suggested ideas and the teachers were all so welcoming about heavy work
and about kind of brain breaks and and I shared all these ideas with the parents it's like please
suggest it because if you do it in the nicest way then you know hopefully teachers will take it
as a supportive thing but it's it's hard like it's so hard we don't learn this any of this
everything we've spoken about today was not covered in teacher training we learned loads about phonics
about 90 percent phonics about five percent maths and the rest of it was you know um not about
anything at all I can't remember we certainly didn't learn about regulation we certainly didn't
learn about how to you know manage the class in this way so so don't assume that teachers know
best just assume that we're all trying to work it out as as we go through just like just like everyone
is and yeah and and every class is different and every class brings new learning opportunities and
parents are the experts in their children and I'm sure you agree that's your own child and
apparently except in their children if you feel like your child would benefit from something we've
spoken about today then you're their advocate you're their voice and and um yeah I urge you
to voice that nobody don't worry about being that parent I love that parent please do it where it's
a badge of honor honestly go in advocate for your child and any teachers listening just believe
parents no parent is coming to you making this up because why would we why would a parent come in
say that my child's coming home and throwing chairs and biting me and melting down even if it
feels really unbelievable sometimes why would because I've been in that situation I thought
what hang on like this is not the child I'm seeing but why would I have questioned that parent I
didn't for a second thing hang on you must be wrong yeah it was just you become defensive
because you're like well it must be something at home it can't be school and I've fallen into
that trap too of course of course you know it just doesn't work like that we all need to be
looking at the holistic picture and all have a part to play in the regulation of the children
don't we and I think ultimately all teachers go into teaching because they want yeah because you
love children you want to help them and you want to be the best teacher one that I'd like to end
with any teachers who are listening is one of the best things you can do is to we focus quite a lot
on the things that our children or certain children might not be able to do or what they
find difficult find the things they can do really really well and find as many opportunities as you
can for that and create those opportunities I created like special races just for children
because they were good at long distance running and that got created in school and really celebrate
celebrate as big as reading and as big as maths everything that they can do if you know that child's
really helpful give them jobs like whatever that child is good at if they love dinosaurs
do dinosaur maths as often as you can just some children are really responsible then they're
they're really not academic but they're really responsible and independent yeah give them that
opportunity and really make a big deal out of it be your helper like because all teachers need helpers
let them stay in if they need to every now and again like come in 10 minutes from lunch and be
the helper I guess what it comes down to trust the parents trust the children yeah doesn't it
this whole chat is assume that the child knows what they are talking about I don't know I think
I just gave us a little gift yeah trust the child that they know what they need and what they are
doing is genuinely needed trust the parent that they know their child and they know what's best
for them and then if it feels good do more of it I think I got nose doesn't it if nobody likes
shouting nobody feels better goes home at the end of the day oh that was a lovely shouty day
you know nobody does that no teachers want to do that I think teachers are you know hugely
overwhelmed and dysregulated as well a lot of time and I think you know just be okay with asking for
help as well and just trust yourself yeah exactly um I have been speaking to you Kate I've been
to you for so long it's so important I found it really validating actually because yeah I really
don't know this stuff this is this is new to me I kind of dipped my toe in I see it from the outside
if I wanted to be realistic I never want to give advice that isn't realistic so I find it really
validating so thank you for that yeah it was help anyone listening I'm sure you have I'm sure you
have please everybody watching this now or in the future please follow nurtured neuro kids
she says so much great stuff in there for parents and teachers and beyond actually for all children
but especially those new urgent learners thank you so much thanks for having me