1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,840 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:11,040 everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled 3 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:17,120 pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,800 and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:34,800 Hello everybody. Today is all about attention autism. Lorraine Scott, the co-owner and director 6 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,840 of attention autism is joining us for this live which is so exciting. Hello Lorraine. 7 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:50,160 Hello. How are you? Hi, I'm good. So, now some of you may already do attention autism in your 8 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:56,240 sessions or your children. You might have heard about attention autism because they do it at school 9 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,080 or it might be something that you've seen me do online and you kind of want to hear a little bit 10 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:06,080 more about it and that's why I wanted Lorraine on here today so that we hear it from you and 11 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,640 we hear it how it should be done because it's been going on for a long time now hasn't it? 12 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:17,680 And actually there are there are updates. Yes, yes there are definitely updates Jordan. So, 13 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:25,680 so full confession to everyone we met on Saturday in real life. We did. At the autism Birmingham show 14 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:32,320 so we feel like we're buddies now yeah. Yeah, oh yeah. I'm fully fangirling that I'm WhatsApping 15 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:39,680 Lorraine Scott. I'm just saying. Well, we really appreciate what you're doing Jordan. You are, 16 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,680 you're doing such a great job and we talked on Saturday just about the fact that it has been a 17 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:52,320 while since you did your training and I would say that yes you're absolutely correct. Like any 18 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,560 good program there are updates but in terms of the concepts that you're that you're bringing 19 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:06,160 across they're absolutely, our philosophies are the same I can see. So it's really lovely to see 20 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:12,160 you using it in really innovative ways and very child-centered ways and it's, we very much 21 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,160 appreciate that. Thank you. That's amazing. I've done it with two of my classes now. I, 22 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,760 so how special ed works usually, I don't know, I've had the same class for five years twice. 23 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,560 So even though I've been teaching for 50 years I've only had two classes which is so weird isn't it? 24 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:33,760 I've got done 400 teaching around that but yeah two classes especially as teacher and in both of 25 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:39,360 them they're very, very different children but I've seen had such an impact. The biggest impact has 26 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,640 been attention autism, adding it to each class and I've been lucky enough to introduce it to both 27 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:51,600 classes. I was there when it was introduced both times and yeah it has such a huge impact within 28 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,640 the session but even more importantly I'm sure you would agree outside of the session as well 29 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:02,080 with the children's confidence to communicate, ability to communicate, want to communicate, 30 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,240 want to even notice that there's other humans there that are willing to engage with them. 31 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:11,520 Some of our children are so lost and I feel like that's where attention autism comes into its own 32 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:20,960 is trying to reach these lost children often. Absolutely. I mean the whole premise is that 33 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,920 it gives the children something to communicate about, something fabulous to communicate about 34 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:30,720 and what we think is happening with the program you're saying that big impact and it's really 35 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:39,040 lovely to hear that and we hear it so much and we know it ourselves. Lindsay and I took over from 36 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:45,760 the fabulous geniuses, Tina Davies just over a year ago because we experienced that with our 37 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:54,160 children in our classrooms and their jobs and just knew the value of it by doing it over and over and 38 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,280 seeing the progress and also when we were talking to colleagues they're saying 39 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,960 we love doing it and the children love to be in the groups and so if you like doing something 40 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:10,160 you're seeing progress with the children you're going to do it immediately. Yeah. And that's why 41 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:16,960 it gets embedded but like you say if you're doing it for 20 and 30 minutes twice a week 42 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:23,520 and it's working then the important piece is taking all those principles and putting them in. 43 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:31,440 It's purely good autism practice. Yeah. So using them out in the classroom, having your whiteboard 44 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,280 or whatever you're using visually, modelling and demonstrating, adapting your language to suit 45 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:44,960 the learning style of the children, makes sense. Exactly. For those that don't know or have only 46 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:50,320 seen little snippets of Attention Autism, could you just, I suppose Attention Autism first then 47 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:58,240 we can go on to the Curiosity programme in a bit, what it is, what it looks like I suppose at each 48 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:04,640 stage. Yeah absolutely. I mean it's so funny to be asked that Jordan because you know part of me 49 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:14,560 feels like so many people. It's a lot shown, I hear lots of people saying things like okay so 50 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,240 we're done with the bucket now and like what's next? I'm like oh no no you keep going. 51 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,440 If you could just describe like what? I will absolutely yes. We do hear that too of course. 52 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,360 We go in now to schools and people will say oh once they realise there's something to do with 53 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:33,520 Attention Autism they'll say we do that, we do the bucket and I say that's brilliant and Lindsay, 54 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:42,400 my partner, business partner, we talk about this sometimes where people say I do it, I do bucket time 55 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:48,000 and we say what else do you do and they're like what else do you do? And I'm like, 56 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:55,440 what else is there? Yeah because and that's probably people like my fault is the bucket 57 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,440 is so much easier to show online because it is just you and the bucket. Now I find it really hard 58 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:07,040 to film stage three effectively because I'm just on my own so it's really hard. I mean I don't know 59 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:16,720 if you saw the one with me with the massive rabbit toy. I was like this is your child. It's really hard to show stage three online so maybe that's probably people like our fault. 60 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,720 Definitely. Maybe you could get some support and adults. Yes. 61 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:26,480 Oh really? To be filmed, that's a hard thing. Adults are much harder to convince to be filmed. 62 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:34,000 Yeah, it's definitely. We're trying to get permissions for filming the children so yeah stage three. It's much easier to 63 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,680 film stage one and two but the other two stages they're equally as impactful but if I I'll just 64 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:48,160 describe them. Yeah brilliant. While I'm on here in case people don't know or would like to know beyond 65 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:58,560 stage one. So the premise is that we provide this irresistible invitation to learn. So we are presenting 66 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:09,040 fascinating things and it's often from a bucket in the early years but and people call it bucket time actually. 67 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:16,160 A lot of times it's called bucket time and that's fine but it does not have to be a bucket. It could be a bag. 68 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:22,080 It could be a toolbox. It could be a hat. The important thing is that there's a lid on it. 69 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:30,080 So there's a surprise. It's magical what's coming out of the bucket and the children can't see it. 70 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,840 So it's something that they'll be hopefully when they know what's on offer really engaged with. 71 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:42,080 And it's just about locking on and attending to what's going on at the front. 72 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,200 The children are either in the group. Lots of times they come and just join the group or they might be 73 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,360 watching from a distance if they're not quite sure what's going on yet or they haven't seen it before. 74 00:07:53,920 --> 00:08:01,200 They're a little uncomfortable with being in groups but the aim for us as the lead person, the lead teacher 75 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:08,720 is that they're watching and interested and engaged and it's just tops two minutes 76 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,760 and you're modelling and demonstrating to them where you want them to look. 77 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:19,600 So you might have something fabulous like this guy in the bucket who dances. 78 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:26,160 Right, hanging out with you is going to be expensive for my budget. I can tell already. 79 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:34,480 I agree. But it's a great point Jordan. It does not have to be expensive. 80 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,640 You can use what you've got to help but you want it to be, though it doesn't have to be expensive, 81 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:46,000 you want it to be fabulous and something that the children aren't playing with for the rest of the 82 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:53,040 day because then it gets a little old. It's not as engaging and as exciting right away. 83 00:08:53,040 --> 00:09:02,240 So you do want to invest in toys and like you said, not joking when we're saying we want to love them too. 84 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,200 Do I love that guy? I mean it's fabulous. 85 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,360 And is there only a certain number of toys to bring out of the bucket? 86 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:13,860 Three. 87 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:14,740 Yeah. 88 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:15,840 Yeah, three. 89 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,400 Things happen in three, don't they, with attention autism? 90 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:26,480 Yeah, and a little bit of the curiosity program as well. The premise being, you know, you see it one time, 91 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,960 that's interesting. You see it another time and you're like, oh I've seen that before. 92 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,840 You see it one more time and you're like, oh I'm comfortable with this. 93 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:46,880 Yeah, repetition is a good thing. So we're saying three toys, three, something really nice and 94 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:54,800 engaging out of the box, basket, bucket, whatever it is for stage one. A couple of minutes and then 95 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,280 move on. Obviously I'm not going to go into every detail. There's a lot more to know than that. 96 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,240 No, you need the proper training. I've pinned it down actually. 97 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,720 Do the official training. This is just a very quick overview. 98 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:14,240 My colleague Lindsay, when she describes stage one, at the end she goes, who knew? There were 99 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:24,480 so many things to taking something out of a bucket. But obviously it's because we are adapting our 100 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:31,280 style to suit the learning needs of the children and that, if you're neurotypical, takes some learning. 101 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,120 Right, I love that. I love that. 102 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:41,760 It just takes a little bit because it feels unusual to, for example, to sing a song or say a rap 103 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:47,600 and look at the bucket instead of the children. But why we're suggesting that is because we don't 104 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,200 want to put social pressure on them. In the early days we're already thinking, what is this? Not too 105 00:10:53,200 --> 00:11:01,440 sure. So we're trying to make it as safe as possible for them. We adapt our style for that. 106 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:07,040 And we also make use of whiteboards so that we tell them up front, this is what's going to happen. 107 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,040 First we're going to do a bucket, then we're going to do whatever it is we do later on. But in the 108 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:18,000 early days we're just doing stage one. Stage two then we are sustaining attention for a bit longer, 109 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,920 so it might go up to five or six minutes, maybe slightly more. And it's usually something 110 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:30,480 really sensory, like we're presenting a sensory experience to them. So it could involve pouring 111 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:41,440 water, it could involve pouring sand. Something visual isn't it? Glitter, something visual and 112 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:48,320 something colourful. We talk in the training having a really good contrast. And salons as well, 113 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,920 because obviously there's a reason why you pour water from up high, right? It's not just seeing 114 00:11:53,920 --> 00:12:01,200 it, it's the sound, isn't it? It almost slows the process down as well. I feel like it's, yeah. 115 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:11,920 It's quite colourful and visual. It's really engaging, you know, because it's a lovely sensory 116 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:18,000 experience is what you're going to report with stage two. But as well as that, it's fun, it's 117 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:25,760 supposed to be fun and engaging for the children and errorless learning. They are there watching, 118 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:34,800 enjoying it and quite often engaging verbally. And the programme is for attention, engagement 119 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:43,120 and communication. So that's the aim, is that we want the children to engage in whatever level 120 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:50,160 they are. If that's non-speaking, then we're looking out for non-speaking attempts at communication 121 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:56,960 where what we call receiving and reflecting those. If it's verbal, fantastic, we're receiving and 122 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:04,240 reflecting those. And I'm getting slightly off topic. But we're busy, the lead is quite busy 123 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:11,280 with the bucket and all the ways to deliver it. And same thing with the other stages. So our 124 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:17,600 supporting adults, Jordan, as you know, we've talked about this, are really key. And it's their 125 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:24,320 role to make sure they're not missing any communicative attempts from the children and 126 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:31,760 just being encouraging around those, you know. So if a child's really excited, then the supporting 127 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:39,040 adult is also really excited about it. Or if the child is not that excited, the supporting adult is 128 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,800 still very interested in what... They're modelling. Yeah. That was one of the questions actually. How 129 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:51,200 is a teacher assistant or a support assistant, how can they best support the session? I think that's, 130 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,280 you've absolutely said it perfectly there. It's modelling what we would love to see the children 131 00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:02,080 doing and almost giving the children permission to do that, to be excited about it and to engage in it. 132 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,320 Yeah. So your team, the lead adult and the supporting adults in the group are absolutely 133 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,760 working together as a team. So a little bit of training for them is excellent, you know, 134 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,800 even if they haven't been on the full attention autism programme. And as you say, that's the key 135 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,800 piece because it puts everything into place for you. They still need a little bit of information 136 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:32,240 about what to do because it might look unusual because it's... No, it not might, it will look unusual. 137 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,800 It will look unusual. I think you become disillusioned because we do it all the time. 138 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:46,560 It 100% looks very unusual. And also we are not insisting that the children are in the group. 139 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:52,640 Yeah. So they're off at some stage and we're saying just modelling demonstrate what it looks 140 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,120 like to be in the group. That's great. That is success if they're watching from a distance. And 141 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,080 that can be hard for supporting adults if you haven't been trained as to why you are doing that. 142 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:09,600 And so that's helpful is to know that information, no chasing, no insisting, just let the children 143 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,680 watch from a distance. That's fine. Or come to the group. And if they come to the group, that's 144 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,000 fabulous. They'll sit beside you. Don't make a massive fuss. We're just modelling and demonstrating. 145 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:27,520 And then they might say something. So if I had this guy and I looked at it and said, 146 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:38,000 oh, a dancing llama. They might say, fantastic to encourage that. Or they might say, a dancing llama. 147 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:46,000 So it's supposed to be natural, Jordan. It's supposed to be just the natural back and forth 148 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:54,800 almost conversation, but not a reciprocal back and forth of sentences. Just the 149 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:02,320 the predictable sequence, predictable language. But you wouldn't say, you know, if I said, 150 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:07,680 dancing llama and you said dancing llama, and then I had something else like roaring dragon, 151 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:18,560 and you said roaring dragon, that would get weird. So we do certainly do some repetition, 152 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:26,000 but you might pepper that when you got confident with it. It's yellow or wow, 153 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:33,520 or something like that, you know, that was just natural. It's supposed to be a natural back and 154 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:44,720 forth teamwork. But it takes some practice. And what we absolutely, absolutely does. And what 155 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:51,760 we've learned is that it is quite hard to use your voice. You draw attention to yourself when 156 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:57,600 you're using your voice. And I saw you doing those lovely vocals with your fancy ball. 157 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:09,680 The children, that's easy, but in front of adults, that's not so easy. So we take that 158 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:16,960 into consideration and try to make it a safe space for everyone. Yeah, and be a little bit relaxed 159 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:25,360 and safe as a safe environment to play. Enjoy it. I've never considered actually, 160 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:30,000 embedding that philosophy into your room in those sessions is a little practice. 161 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:36,240 But then outside of the room, what a fun, what outside the lesson, sorry, what a beautiful 162 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:43,200 way to embed that is that trust and that we're all here for the children, we're all here for the same 163 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,480 reason we can be silly in this class, we can make mistakes in this class, like, that's so important. 164 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,520 Something I haven't considered actually about attention autism is it's our opportunity to, 165 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:59,200 as adults teach each other and show each other like you cannot be too silly in this room, 166 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,160 you can't be as long as you're about the children, it's for the children. Yeah, everything is okay. 167 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:11,600 And we will never laugh at you, we will laugh with you. Yeah, and we will encourage it. Yeah, 168 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,880 I think that's really, it's a great safe session to practice those skills. Because like you say, 169 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:25,200 as neurotypical adults, it's so alien to us to be silly. Isn't it? And to let go. Yeah. 170 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:34,080 We can do it all day long for other adults who tend to calm it down a little bit. And, you know, 171 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,160 you don't have to in the attention autism always be switched on and, and, you know, hyper and, 172 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,680 you massive facial expressions, but you do a lot of the time. But sometimes you might be 173 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,360 teaching something that has happened that has been a bit sad. And so your tone might be a little bit 174 00:18:51,360 --> 00:19:00,000 sadder. But it's a way or more sadder work. Don't know. You would be presenting it in a different 175 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:09,120 way with a different vibe. But a lot of the time what you're doing is using it to teach things like 176 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:17,120 emotion, like facial expression, those are all the sort of soft skills that are around it and things, 177 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:24,160 like you're saying, like feeling safe to be silly if it's for the time or, you know, 178 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,960 hamming it up a little bit and not being okay. You being absolutely encouraged by whatever adults 179 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,800 are around to do that. If that's working for that particular child, you would individualize it. 180 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,040 Because some children are shy and don't want that. And then you have to adapt a little bit for them. 181 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:47,360 I have it often where a child doesn't really want to have a turn or they don't really want to be 182 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:54,080 watched. And again, I just respect that. Okay, that's your consent. There's nothing in attention 183 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,480 autism. And this comes up often of forcing a child to do anything they're uncomfortable with. 184 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:04,400 It's encouraging all adults and children in the room to maybe get outside their comfort zone and 185 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,360 get full confidence and self-esteem in that way. But it's certainly not pushing anyone. 186 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:17,120 Yeah. No, it's really, that's one of the big principles of it is, you know, children, 187 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:22,960 we want them to be there because they love what's on offer and they're really enjoying it. And we 188 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,800 were saying on Saturday, you know, actually the opposite of that happens where you're like, 189 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,000 try and stop them. 190 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:34,800 As soon as I get the bucket out, I could not stop the children coming. Put them on the part. 191 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,280 It's not perfect, obviously. I don't want anyone to think, oh, my children don't. It's not perfect. 192 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,920 We're three years in now and they just know that it's bucket time. In fact, I missed it and I 193 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:51,120 gutted, I had a PPA time. And apparently one of my lads did the entirety of bucket stage one, 194 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,880 two and three, took three things out of the bucket, everything, did the whiteboard, everything. 195 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:02,880 He's, he's, class is non-speaking, he's echolalic, but obviously it was echoing my everything. 196 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:10,880 Even did the finishing song, everything. And I wish I saw it. I wasn't in the room. They told me about 197 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,880 it afterwards. But it just brings me so much joy because you try and stop them doing it. 198 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,880 They were like, she's not in the room, we're still doing it. I'll lead it. 199 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,880 I'll take it. Yeah, we care about it. 200 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:28,880 We care about it. Yeah, we hear that so much. And we actually do put into our training that 201 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,880 it's great if there's an opportunity for role reversal when the children are comfortable. 202 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:40,080 We really encourage that. So then you'd still, if that was happening in the room and there wasn't even a group around, 203 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,880 you know, the kid was just decided he was doing that, you would still be a really encouraging support novel. 204 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,880 Right, of course. Of course. 205 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:53,880 And we hear really great stories all the time about children going and finding something like a piece of paper 206 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,880 or a whiteboard or a book and throwing a bucket and giving it to their teacher to say... 207 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,880 Arm a bucket! I love it. I love that so much. 208 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:12,880 That's about the voice of the child, isn't it? Absolutely. And it's their request, isn't it? That's their motivator. 209 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,880 Yeah. And sometimes people will say, you know, they hadn't actually made a mark with anything before. 210 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,880 They had no interest in that. But again, yeah, it's really motivating. 211 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:30,880 It's a purpose, doesn't it? Marking for no reason, maybe just didn't give them anything, give them any feedback. 212 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:38,880 But marking for a purpose, like a request, something they want, which is exactly what the whiteboard is showing them in Attention Autism. 213 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:47,880 Exactly. It's that. It's their place. Honestly, it comes back to that, is they really want to do it and they want to be there again, once they know it's an offer. 214 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:57,880 But I think where things get skewed is that professionals see the group and people have maybe picked things up here and there, 215 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,880 you know, from people who have done the training or they did it years ago and they've forgotten 216 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,880 or they didn't have children that they thought maybe would fit in the group. 217 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,880 So they pick it up five or six years and they kind of don't remember the premise. 218 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:22,880 And then people see practice that's not high quality and then think, oh, you should, you know, Attention Autism insists that the task that's in the group, which we have. 219 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,880 I do that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. 220 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,880 Things get skewed. 221 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:37,880 So our response to that is talk to us, come to us directly and have a chat, basically. 222 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,880 And also we are in the process of doing training that involves updates. 223 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:53,880 You won't have to do, no one's expecting people to do the whole training again, but give us an hour of your time and jump in for the updates. 224 00:23:53,880 --> 00:24:03,880 Because things have changed in education all the time in every area and you want to move and adapt while remaining Autism specific. 225 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,880 And clarify as well. Yeah. 226 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:13,880 Some things maybe were assumed before and you want to clarify what these things are. 227 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:20,880 Yeah, they are questions I get a lot often actually about children being settled. 228 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:27,880 Do they have to sit? And also another question is what, what, how do you get them to want to join? 229 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,880 And my answer to that is be more fun. 230 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:42,880 If they're not wanting to join, then I'm not meeting their special interests enough or I'm not meeting their sensory needs enough or I'm not being big enough. 231 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:52,880 Or I'm not being, I'm being too big. Whatever it is you kind of want to tune in to the children and then and then they will want to come if you do it right. 232 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,880 So it's all about it's not about adapting them and moving them to us. 233 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,880 It's very much about, OK, I'll change up my toys then. 234 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,880 Or maybe maybe this doesn't reach them. Maybe I'll try something else. 235 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,880 Maybe I'll try something else. If you're one of those teachers that it's just not working, they don't want to join. 236 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,880 Well, one, what are you supporting adults doing? 237 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,880 Are they modeling what we're expecting? Because the kids might not know what you want them to do. 238 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:20,880 And then also, yeah, just kind of change up your resources and see if that helps. 239 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,880 That's a really long way with everything that you do in a classroom or any classroom. 240 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,880 So, yeah, you would reflect on what's happening. 241 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,880 Could you do something different? 242 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,880 Would it be more interesting to do it this way? 243 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,880 How can we make them feel more comfortable? 244 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,880 Just to watch and then go from there. 245 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:45,880 And if it's not, if the child isn't interested after a couple of weeks, 246 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,880 and you're doing your best and you've had team meetings and you're looking at things that they like and you're adding them in 247 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,880 and the children are not that engaged, then we'd say, well, let's try something else first. 248 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,880 Maybe go through intensive interaction and the curiosity program type approach. 249 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,880 They may not actually be ready for it. 250 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,880 That is a great segue into the curiosity program, because often that is what I suggest. 251 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:15,880 So if somebody says I'm one to one with my pupil, they are working at 12 months, 18 months developmentally. 252 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,880 Yeah, we're one to one. They just want everything out of the bucket. 253 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,880 They tip it up. They put stuff back in. What am I doing wrong? What should I do? 254 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,880 And I say, oh, hang on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're doing bucket time. 255 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,880 I think you should be doing the curiosity program. Yeah. 256 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,880 Could you tell us a little bit more about the program? 257 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,880 And then maybe we could chat about that as well. 258 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:44,880 I've really tried and they have, you know, very obviously visual boundaries in place that are suggesting your space, my space. 259 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,880 If it's a very short period of time, it's fantastic choice. 260 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:55,880 But after two or three times, the child is still not engaging, then they may be just not developmentally ready. 261 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:02,880 So we talk about the curiosity program being for children who are under two and a half years developmentally. 262 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,880 So that is a program that is about connection, engagement. 263 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,880 The attention autism program is about connection and engagement too. 264 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:18,880 But there is an expectation that at some point the child will want to come to the group if you're getting as laid out. 265 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,880 And they can cope in a group. Right. Exactly. 266 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,880 Yeah. So for children who are not ready for that, then the curiosity program is one to one. 267 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,880 But again, it is a very much about connection. 268 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,880 So there are also four stages to it. 269 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,880 And it's really good early years practice is what it is. 270 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:46,880 And it is linked to how children who are autistic learn. 271 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:57,880 So, again, it is about adopting the lead teacher, the lead adults approach to fit with the learning style of the children. 272 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:05,880 So we are in the first stage of interaction type activities where we're just making connections. 273 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:14,880 So, Deanna Davies and Dave Shett were colleagues back in the day and realized separately that they were doing these things instinctively 274 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,880 because they're brilliant practitioners and we're reading their children. 275 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:29,880 And so the first part is about engaging, connecting, making that connection with the child, letting the child lead you go in. 276 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,880 No pressure just sitting beside them a little bit of distance. 277 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:42,880 And then when you have the connection, adding a little invitation, maybe to do something, something else and seeing how the child responds to that. 278 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,880 And if they don't want that, you take the lead from them. 279 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,880 If they do, then you have a lovely little game with them. 280 00:28:50,880 --> 00:29:01,880 So where it differs, Jordan, is that what Deanna noticed was that people would say, parents would say, teachers would say, how many times? 281 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,880 When do I know when to go on to the next thing? What is the next thing after that? 282 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,880 Is there something else we could do? 283 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:15,880 People, as in us adults, like structure as much as autistic children do. 284 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,880 We like to say. 285 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,880 It's a very human trait to want structure and regime. 286 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880 It makes you feel comfortable. Yeah, exactly. 287 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,880 So that's what the Curiosity Programme adds. 288 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,880 A lot of other things too, which I'll tell you about now, but to that first stage, it adds how many times, how long. 289 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:41,880 And we're basically saying the Curiosity Programme, this is not a race to the end, relax, enjoy the process, trust the process. 290 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,880 We say that in attention autism too. 291 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,880 But attention autism is round about an eight week programme before you get to the end. 292 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,880 But Curiosity Programme, we are just watching what the child's doing, connecting with them. 293 00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:00,880 And then we add singing and music and rhythm because children love that. 294 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,880 All children love that. Autistic children love it too. 295 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,880 Yeah, especially an adult education teacher or nursery teacher, I know, has a song for everything. 296 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,880 And that's part of the idea of that, isn't it? 297 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,880 Yeah. 298 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,880 You're making up songs that are too familiar tunes that a child might enjoy. 299 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880 The child makes a connection with that. 300 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,880 So we call them signature songs because they match whatever it is the child is doing. 301 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:34,880 You might use the child's name, but it's something that they're going to be doing every day that they are going to be really familiar with. 302 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:46,880 So you pick a song, you go around the mulberry bush and you make it a bit to the milk is going round and round or whatever it is. 303 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,880 That's Waze on the Bus, I know. 304 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,880 Mine is always Waze on the Bus. 305 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,880 No matter what work I do, it's always Waze on the Bus. 306 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,880 Mine can be Mulberry Bush and Bread a bit. 307 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:06,880 It just depends. But you pick a tune and you make it work for that child as to what they're doing at the time. 308 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,880 It's fun. Again, it works because it's fun for everybody. 309 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:17,880 If you've got an older child, an older young person, the program can be used with them as well. 310 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,880 If they are in those very early stages of communication, we use them thrive. 311 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,880 But we might do instead of Mulberry Bush. 312 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:32,880 It's all about the washing, washing, washing, something like that. 313 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,880 So you have it person appropriate. 314 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880 Yes, so the song would be a little bit different. 315 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,880 Or if that child liked nursery rhymes, we'd go with nursery rhymes. 316 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:49,880 But we changed it up a little bit for the older kids. But what I'm saying is the older children, young people, it's a really lovely program for them too. 317 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,880 And then we, in the third stage, what we're going to do is create curiosity. 318 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:02,880 Now, as you know, autistic children are curious, naturally curious about lots of things. 319 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,880 Often you can't predict it. 320 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,880 They'll find something that they're interested in and it might be trains and it might be dinosaurs. 321 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,880 Those are all the kind of typical things that we see. 322 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:23,880 But what the premise of that part is, the creating curiosity part, is that the world is full of fascinating, interesting things. 323 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:31,880 And if you really love trains and every time there's a downtime, you go to your trains, 324 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,880 then you might miss out on all the things that are also out there. 325 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,880 It might also like if you spent less time on trains. 326 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,880 Now, we're saying plenty of time on trains, loads of time on whatever the enthusiasm is. 327 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Go for it. Have that. Definitely do it. 328 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,880 But look at this. This is amazing. 329 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,880 So we have gorgeous little containers. 330 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,880 And that's a nice little tin that I have there that we use at one of them along the creating curiosity stage. 331 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,880 It's just something amazing. 332 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,880 Now, this doesn't have anything too fabulous, but you might have a tin like this. 333 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,880 And then you might have some of these in the tin. 334 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,880 The good guys, they might be in there and you would take them out and have a look at them 335 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,880 and then give it to the child and play with them together. 336 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,880 Now, I know what you're thinking. Lorraine, health and safety. 337 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,880 That's a very small googly eye. 338 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,880 You are right there with the child, right there. 339 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,880 So you're being very careful around that. 340 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,880 And if you do have a child, obviously, who puts everything in their mouth before you can blink, 341 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,880 don't use a googly eyes. Use something else. 342 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:46,880 That's me at home. 343 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,880 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 344 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,880 But lots of children love that. 345 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,880 So you might you then follow their lead and that curiosity part. 346 00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:03,880 So now they're interested in something else and you find with them together lots of things 347 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,880 that they're interested in and quite often things that are in their environment. 348 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,880 So it might be something really simple like spoons or something that's around them 349 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:21,880 that are going to sound really good, maybe on a tin tray or lentils on a plastic tray 350 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,880 or something that they see all the time. 351 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,880 Even I'm just noticing here there's a kitchen roll beside me. 352 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,880 You know, out with the kitchen roll, so engaging. 353 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,880 So we are creating curiosity. 354 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,880 And again, how many times, how often to do it and lots of ideas. 355 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,880 So little containers are involved. 356 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,880 So if any of you are coming on the training or want to do curiosity training, 357 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,880 gather up all your little pieces of jewellery boxes and fabulous looking containers. 358 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:04,880 It is important what the container looks like because that really encourages engagement. 359 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,880 If you've got something sparkly or unusual, rough or fluffy, 360 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,880 that really helps the children to engage too. 361 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,880 So it's important what you're using to create the curiosity base. 362 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880 The fourth one is playing together. 363 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,880 I nearly had to do that. 364 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,880 So, yeah, lovely stage of playing together. 365 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,880 So we're trusting the process. It's not a race. 366 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,880 We could be doing these for quite a long time. 367 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:40,880 And so it is just what it says, you know, so building blocks or building cups off 368 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,880 of the top of the table, but always taking the lead from the chat. 369 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,880 You can see why that flows so well into attention autism, can't you? 370 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,880 Because all of a sudden they're interested in other things other than their one special interest. 371 00:35:53,880 --> 00:36:00,880 So all of a sudden you've got more likely to get engagement out with the things that you're doing in attention autism. 372 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,880 They're also noticing you as the adult as having something to offer them. 373 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,880 Yes, exactly. 374 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,880 Or just meeting their own sensory needs and interests. 375 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,880 So that also leaves itself so beautifully to an independent autism. 376 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,880 So already they're learning those skills one on one, aren't they? 377 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:20,880 And then you're putting them into the group setting once they feel more confident, maybe, in those skills. 378 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,880 You're right, Jordan. 379 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,880 And you would not necessarily stop the curiosity programme because you're in the attention autism programme. 380 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,880 What we find is that children come on really well with the curiosity. 381 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,880 And so quite a lot of teachers, therapists run the programmes side by side for a while, 382 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,880 until they're ready to be into the attention autism programme. 383 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,880 And then, of course, the key piece that you said earlier is using the strategies outside of the group. 384 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,880 That's where we're headed, actually, is these strategies being embedded in everyday life. 385 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,880 So children are going to start to know. 386 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,880 And it's hard for an autistic child to learn this, actually. 387 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:06,880 And it's hard for a teacher to teach these kinds of skills, like look to someone to see what to do. 388 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,880 How do you teach that? Anyone. 389 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:15,880 It gives you a structure in which to teach these really important skills that are. 390 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:16,880 And also time. 391 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,880 So we have 30 minutes a day set aside to teach these skills. 392 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,880 And I think as teachers, it's so easy to get sidetracked with your maths or your English or whatever you call it. 393 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:35,880 You know, your your sensory stories, whatever you've got a slot for everything by carving out 30 minutes a day for attention autism. 394 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,880 Basically, what you're saying is this is just as important. 395 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,880 But what it can teach teaching is anything that needs to be teaching in that moment. 396 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,880 But you've carved that time out. Otherwise, it's so easy to get. Yes. 397 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,880 Isn't it? 398 00:37:51,880 --> 00:38:00,880 And I love I told you this on Saturday. I don't know if people saw your idea about the socks and taking yourselves to trampoline park and teaching that through your attention autism program. 399 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,880 That is a gorgeous way to. 400 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,880 We were going on a trip to a trampoline park and we hadn't been on a trip with my class for the whole year. 401 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880 So it was a really big thing going on a trip anyway. 402 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:18,880 And to go to the trampoline park, you have to wear these sticky socks and they are so non-autistic friendly. 403 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,880 They feel weird. They're brightly colored. They're trainer socks like these. 404 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,880 So they don't go all the way up. You know, it's not so much. 405 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,880 We don't even wear socks. They will just wear crocs. 406 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,880 So for the first thing, it was such a big barrier. 407 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,880 I felt an unnecessary barrier for my children to engage in the trip, which is a trampoline park, which I knew they would love. 408 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,880 I didn't want the socks to become the issue and a barrier for them enjoying it. 409 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:47,880 And I knew that the trampoline park staff were going to be very strict with us that they would have to wear the socks in order to enjoy the trampolines. 410 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,880 So initially I thought, right, we're not going to get there and then struggle with this. 411 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,880 And so we spent all week because we do it every day. 412 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:06,880 We spent all week. My stage two activity was me putting on the socks and bouncing on the trampoline, having a brilliant time. 413 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:14,880 And then my stage three was them putting on the socks and then having a jump on our trampette and having a brilliant time. 414 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:22,880 So that when we go to the trampoline park, it's not a complete shot when I showed them the now next strip and it says socks and then trampoline, 415 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,880 because they've been practicing this every day for the week leading up to it. 416 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,880 They've also practiced trying on the socks so they know the feel of them. 417 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:39,880 It's not as scary and they're doing it in a safe environment rather than already feeling anxiety, feeling heightened by being in it somewhere new. 418 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,880 Right. And with noises and smells and all sorts of things going on as well. 419 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,880 Actually, they're in a very safe environment with a very safe structure. 420 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,880 They know so well, they know the attention autism structure so well now. 421 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,880 They're really secure in that. Yeah. 422 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:56,880 It was a perfect opportunity to learn those new skills and it worked beautifully. 423 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,880 All but one put on the socks out of ten, which is, I mean, that is incredible. 424 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:08,880 And the one child did eventually, it took them about 20 minutes out of the hour, but they did eventually do it. 425 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,880 And it's huge. It's huge. I can't express how huge that is. 426 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,880 Yeah, absolutely. 427 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:22,880 Well, it was really clever on your part to think that's going to transfer so well because it's a safe environment that they feel safe in. 428 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,880 It wouldn't obviously have worked, Jordan, if you'd just started the program, but the children were very impressed with it. 429 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:39,880 So it is, you know, there are lots of there's lots of places you can take it when you have the the premise, the skills. 430 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:40,880 And when you're doing it. 431 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,880 In the pandemic, we also did one about wiping noses, washing hands. 432 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,880 How do you teach all the school, everyone was teaching about washing hands. 433 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,880 How do you do this with my sensory class? 434 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,880 Well, bring it into attention autism. 435 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,880 All of a sudden, we are washing glitter off our hands because it's a fun activity. 436 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,880 You know, all of a sudden, it's fun. It's motivating and it's teaching a really important skill. 437 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,880 Yeah, absolutely. Potentially life saving actually. 438 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,880 Yeah. 439 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,880 So, yes, there's lots of innovative ways that you can use it. 440 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,880 And the thing is, keep on going. You know, we talk about this in the training as well. 441 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,880 It's all very well if you have done the training. 442 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,880 Just you've just done it. You're excited. 443 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,880 People will write to me and say, Lorraine, I've been teaching for 23 years. 444 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,880 I got my mojo back because of this. 445 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,880 And it's fabulous. But then 10 years, if you did it 10 years ago, the thing is, where do you take it? 446 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,880 What do you do? How do you keep motivated? 447 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,880 That's a really important part of the process too. 448 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,880 So we are saying have grips in your school, have good ideas. 449 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,880 You know, there's lots of good ideas online. 450 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,880 We always have a slight caveat around that because we want people to get really high quality information about getting it right. 451 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,880 But for ideas, there's lots of information out there that will help or create your own. 452 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:06,880 You know, go to an art museum and look at an installation and think they're using, they're using slinkies. 453 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,880 I could use slinkies to do blah, blah, blah. 454 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,880 I've watched the kids as well. So sometimes I've got one of my ideas was stimming with a slinky. 455 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,880 Basically, that's what I say too. And that's what I say stream actually. 456 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,880 I did it as well because I watched a boy stimming with a slinky and thought, actually that looks really fun. 457 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,880 Like you've got something that I would ever have come up with by myself because I use a slinky. 458 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,880 Like, you know, Norah Typicals do and I do the slinky like because we're taught to. 459 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,880 But he was wiggling it and it was making some and it makes your eyes go all funny and it looks really great. 460 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,880 And I thought, well, there's a stage check. 461 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,880 You know, so watch them because sometimes actually they have the better ideas than we do. 462 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,880 Watching the children is a really good idea or just thinking about what's happening in the community at the time. 463 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,880 So Wimbledon, I presume, is coming up at some stage. I don't think so. 464 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,880 So you could do stage three around tennis and then the children are hearing in class. 465 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:10,880 That's a category that they might be hearing all the time outside of class and it can all come together for them. 466 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,880 So it's a really good idea to think about what's topical, you know, what's going on. 467 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,880 This as well. It's really hard and re as well. 468 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,880 I really struggle to think of meaningful ways of teaching the children. 469 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,880 And I'm very authentic with my teaching. I'm quite stubborn as well. 470 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:32,880 I don't do anything I can't I don't think will be meaningful for my children. 471 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:40,880 So if I can make it meaningful, which often is through attention autism, you know, they can experience something. 472 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,880 And I do it through that. So, yeah, it could be a national day or a special day. 473 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,880 You know, there's a holiday for everything, isn't there? 474 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,880 At the moment, which is really important. 475 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,880 But for example, Down syndrome on Socks Day, really important event that I really want to celebrate with my class. 476 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,880 But how do I do that with my learners? 477 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,880 You know, and it's taking us is taking through that. 478 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,880 We also lost a pupil this year in my class. 479 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,880 Horrendous. You know, how do I support my students to navigate that? 480 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:14,880 Yeah, do it with attention autism. And I really like that you spoke about earlier about it can be sadness to and modeling that and honoring that. 481 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,880 And I think, yeah, why why not use attention autism for all of those things that we're supporting our children to navigate? 482 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:21,880 Absolutely. Yeah. 483 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,880 You couldn't teach them through a book or story because they're just not there. 484 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,880 They're just not there. It would be it would not be as meaningful in those ways. 485 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,880 And I think the key is just getting your head around. 486 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:46,880 How do you match the objective or the aim that you have to do something that's going to be engaging, interesting, irresistible? 487 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,880 How do you do that? But you can get into that mindset. 488 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,880 I used to talk about being in a visual mindset, like a visual learning mindset. 489 00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,880 And it's it's like, how can I help that child make sense of that activity in a visual way? 490 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,880 I started to look at it where it would make sense. 491 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:10,880 And it's the same thing with attention autism is how do I teach it in a way that gets all the main points across? 492 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,880 But they are going to understand maybe not the first time you do it, but you can also do repetitions. 493 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,880 Yeah. 494 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,880 It has the biggest chance of them understanding thing. And we've got to presume competence. 495 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,880 I just have to say that. Yeah. I just have to say that. 496 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:36,880 Let's let's offer it to them and assume that and that it's going to be understood, even if it doesn't look like it's going to be understood. 497 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:43,880 Let's assume. Yeah. In the program, you know, you may have something like these buttons or whatever. 498 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:55,880 And you might say at the end when you're playing with child at some point, you would say, oh, a big red button, like a red moon or something like that. 499 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:03,880 You know, something really imaginative or like hailstones or if you've got something floating there. 500 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:09,880 And because we are starting somewhere, you've got to start somewhere and we're going to say, right, the child's enjoying this. 501 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:16,880 What better time to teach them something? Yeah. And it doesn't hurt to assume competence. 502 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:32,880 Right. Yeah. My fear actually as a teacher is to have an incredibly competent child that isn't able to show us that and mean not have done enough. 503 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:41,880 That is for me. That is my biggest fear. Yeah. Yeah. So to combat that, I'd really try hard not to ever assume otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. 504 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,880 Absolutely. So, yes, we take these things into consideration. 505 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:52,880 It's it's it's good autism practice, Jordan, is what I said at the beginning. 506 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,880 Really is what it is. We're working on the premise of good early years practice and good autism specific practice. 507 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,880 Actually, I hear that a lot. So it's called attention autism. Can only autistics do it? 508 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:20,880 Is a question I get a lot. Everyone can do it. In an autism session, they are just as benefiting from it as any any child with either a communication or social difficulty will absolutely benefit from attention. 509 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:38,880 Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Or a young, typical development. Yes. Yes. Yes. Learning those social skills, learning those communication skills, learning the attention skills and engagement skills will benefit. 510 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:53,880 Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's it's almost no offense. I have to say it's almost poorly named because it kind of people assume that it's not for them. Yes. It really is. It really can be. Yeah. 511 00:47:53,880 --> 00:48:01,880 Attention everyone. Yeah. Everyone. Exactly. Well, I think that's why some teachers refer to it as bucket time. Yeah. Yeah. 512 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:11,880 And also, you can't put a symbol on. It would be a bit strange to put a symbol on a child. It's easier to physically say as well. Some of the children can say bucket time. 513 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:21,880 We're all like bucket time. As long as you know it doesn't have to be a bucket time. Yeah. One of the questions was, do people call it bucket time because they haven't had the official training? 514 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:37,880 Can you not call it, can you not call it attention autism if you haven't had the training? I don't think that's what it is. Bucket time or suitcase time doesn't have quite the same ring to it. No. We love bucket time. Bucket's so lovely to say in the early years. It is. 515 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:55,880 They come in all these colourful types and shapes and sizes. But we're basically saying don't just use one bucket, either paint it out. Then use an egg if it's Easter time and use something else so children understand they can be flexible around it. 516 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:18,880 Because what if you only use a pink bucket with a purple lid and then someone borrows it one day? Right. Do something else and then autistic children often do not like that without making it. It's good subtle practice to acknowledge that sometimes things change and that's OK. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. 517 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:36,880 There are there are lots of additional skills that you can teach with that maybe aren't it's not necessarily about attention, but can't learn them unless you're attentive. But you may not be attending in the way that a neurotypical child attends. 518 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:46,880 And that's what we're taking into consideration hugely in the programme. So I think we're fans, Jordan, both of us. 519 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,880 Do you think? Do you think it's obvious? Do you think? 520 00:49:50,880 --> 00:50:19,880 Somebody said actually, where can we find the training? Is it virtual or face to face? How long is the training? I suppose for both of the programmes, I suppose that might be. So both of them are either face to face or virtual. The curiosity programme is one day training. The attention autism programme face to face is two days. The attention autism programme is 75, it's very specific, 75 minute sessions for six sessions for attention autism online. 521 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:28,880 Lots of people do it in the twilight hour, you know, three thirty four thirty four to five type time because that's six skills. 522 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:38,880 And the curiosity programme is five online sessions. So over 75 minutes as well. People can concentrate pretty well at the end. 523 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:56,880 I've done and they do it really well, actually. I did the curiosity programme virtually and you go into every fifteen minutes, you kind of go into the group. He's really clever. I don't know how you do it. But you like split everyone into groups and then you can kind of check a little bit and show them your back all together again. 524 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:12,880 And it's very visual and very engaging. Of course, it is. Gina Davies, of course, it's engaging. But yeah, don't worry if you struggle with screens or attending for a long time yourself, because they you do it like you do the attention autism session. 525 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:32,880 It's a very separated and bits and I feel like you keep the engagement. Yeah, really well. And that's also showing exact physical examples. And I didn't feel like I've done obviously in person and virtual and I didn't feel like I any one was better than the other. 526 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:46,880 I've got a lot from that is really good to know. Yeah, we really do try hard. Gina originally, obviously, and Lindsay to work with. Yeah, was there actually. I'm setting up into groups that to all that. 527 00:51:46,880 --> 00:52:03,880 Yes, they both worked really hard on making the online version interactive research in the high. What can people do that slot that's that's going to help them engage. Of course, they can practice what they create in that way. So, yes, they're both engaging. 528 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:09,880 And you can find them on our website. Attention Autism dot co dot UK. 529 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:21,880 I think what what's really important is to do the training as well. If you are doing bucket time already. That's that's fantastic. I'd rather you did do it with your children, but I'd rather you also do it well and do it. 530 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:29,880 This is based in science and there's a reason why you this isn't just pulled out of thin air. There's a reason why they ask you to do certain things in certain ways. 531 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:40,880 And I think it's really important to acknowledge that. But yes, bucket time is really fun, but it's even better. And you'll see even better results if you do it the gene Davies way. And I don't want to be fluffy around that. I feel quite passionate about. 532 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:50,880 Yes, in the training. I think that is the key pieces. You will see better outcomes. You will feel more natural to you as well. You're not according to the guidelines. 533 00:52:50,880 --> 00:53:06,880 And a couple of people. What's the last question as well is what if a child attended bucket time and now isn't interested? Do you go back to the curiosity or city approach or just go back to focusing on stage one? 534 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:21,880 I mean, I suppose what I would do is try and change up what I'm doing with bucket time. Maybe maybe change the location. I might take outside. I might make it a bit bigger, a bit messier outside. 535 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:31,880 Maybe the adults have also got a little bit bored of it because it's a bit samey and kind of maybe retrain some adults and get some fresh ideas. I don't know. What would you say? 536 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:41,880 I would say all of that, endorse all of that and have a little bit of reflection time as you take and say what's going on? Why is it not liking it? How long has it been doing it? 537 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:56,880 Any fresh things? Is there a part for role reversal there where he can do some? Or just present your other lessons in an attention, autism type way. Like we're doing pancake day. 538 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:08,880 So we're taking out the pancake. That would be fantastic. But not necessarily in the group. Maybe at the kitchen area or wherever you normally teach those kind of skills in the different context. 539 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,880 I would take them out of the group. But I'd need to know more info to give you really good direction. 540 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:29,880 Absolutely. I think that with any work based task, if the children aren't wanting to do it, then it's not up to the children to change it up to us. To either change it to what it looks like, how we're presenting it, the location of it, what it is, whatever. 541 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:48,880 Just about changing it up and experimenting it as if it's new. Because I think we're our own worst enemy sometimes, aren't we? We get stuck in the routine and actually why don't we change it up? Why don't we add new things? And sometimes our budget dries up as well. And then we need to think more creatively about how, because there's loads of ideas you can do for nothing. 542 00:54:48,880 --> 00:55:07,880 It's got to think more creatively maybe. All of those tips and tricks you're giving there Jordan are a good idea. But he just may be ready for more of the same but in a real environment. In a more naturalistic environment outside of the group. 543 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:35,880 That's the idea of teaching the skills to go out into the real world. Yes, that is the idea. He's ready to go out into the world. Thank you so much Lorraine. I already know this has been so important and it's just so encouraging and I really hope people watch this and parents feel one more involved in what their children are doing at school maybe. 544 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,880 And maybe want to have it go themselves. It would be really great. 545 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:56,880 And then teachers also feel a bit more confident to either have a go for themselves with the training or if they already have the training to maybe it's hopefully it's given them some of their mojo back and they want to go in there with them a little bit more pizzazz. 546 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:13,880 Exactly. I'll see you next week. Bye.