Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education teacher from the UK. I share my passion for
everything communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson ideas for my classroom of disabled
pupils aged 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in the field answering your questions
and sharing our knowledge and experience working alongside our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody. Today is all about attention autism. Lorraine Scott, the co-owner and director
of attention autism is joining us for this live which is so exciting. Hello Lorraine.
Hello. How are you? Hi, I'm good. So, now some of you may already do attention autism in your
sessions or your children. You might have heard about attention autism because they do it at school
or it might be something that you've seen me do online and you kind of want to hear a little bit
more about it and that's why I wanted Lorraine on here today so that we hear it from you and
we hear it how it should be done because it's been going on for a long time now hasn't it?
And actually there are there are updates. Yes, yes there are definitely updates Jordan. So,
so full confession to everyone we met on Saturday in real life. We did. At the autism Birmingham show
so we feel like we're buddies now yeah. Yeah, oh yeah. I'm fully fangirling that I'm WhatsApping
Lorraine Scott. I'm just saying. Well, we really appreciate what you're doing Jordan. You are,
you're doing such a great job and we talked on Saturday just about the fact that it has been a
while since you did your training and I would say that yes you're absolutely correct. Like any
good program there are updates but in terms of the concepts that you're that you're bringing
across they're absolutely, our philosophies are the same I can see. So it's really lovely to see
you using it in really innovative ways and very child-centered ways and it's, we very much
appreciate that. Thank you. That's amazing. I've done it with two of my classes now. I,
so how special ed works usually, I don't know, I've had the same class for five years twice.
So even though I've been teaching for 50 years I've only had two classes which is so weird isn't it?
I've got done 400 teaching around that but yeah two classes especially as teacher and in both of
them they're very, very different children but I've seen had such an impact. The biggest impact has
been attention autism, adding it to each class and I've been lucky enough to introduce it to both
classes. I was there when it was introduced both times and yeah it has such a huge impact within
the session but even more importantly I'm sure you would agree outside of the session as well
with the children's confidence to communicate, ability to communicate, want to communicate,
want to even notice that there's other humans there that are willing to engage with them.
Some of our children are so lost and I feel like that's where attention autism comes into its own
is trying to reach these lost children often. Absolutely. I mean the whole premise is that
it gives the children something to communicate about, something fabulous to communicate about
and what we think is happening with the program you're saying that big impact and it's really
lovely to hear that and we hear it so much and we know it ourselves. Lindsay and I took over from
the fabulous geniuses, Tina Davies just over a year ago because we experienced that with our
children in our classrooms and their jobs and just knew the value of it by doing it over and over and
seeing the progress and also when we were talking to colleagues they're saying
we love doing it and the children love to be in the groups and so if you like doing something
you're seeing progress with the children you're going to do it immediately. Yeah. And that's why
it gets embedded but like you say if you're doing it for 20 and 30 minutes twice a week
and it's working then the important piece is taking all those principles and putting them in.
It's purely good autism practice. Yeah. So using them out in the classroom, having your whiteboard
or whatever you're using visually, modelling and demonstrating, adapting your language to suit
the learning style of the children, makes sense. Exactly. For those that don't know or have only
seen little snippets of Attention Autism, could you just, I suppose Attention Autism first then
we can go on to the Curiosity programme in a bit, what it is, what it looks like I suppose at each
stage. Yeah absolutely. I mean it's so funny to be asked that Jordan because you know part of me
feels like so many people. It's a lot shown, I hear lots of people saying things like okay so
we're done with the bucket now and like what's next? I'm like oh no no you keep going.
If you could just describe like what? I will absolutely yes. We do hear that too of course.
We go in now to schools and people will say oh once they realise there's something to do with
Attention Autism they'll say we do that, we do the bucket and I say that's brilliant and Lindsay,
my partner, business partner, we talk about this sometimes where people say I do it, I do bucket time
and we say what else do you do and they're like what else do you do? And I'm like,
what else is there? Yeah because and that's probably people like my fault is the bucket
is so much easier to show online because it is just you and the bucket. Now I find it really hard
to film stage three effectively because I'm just on my own so it's really hard. I mean I don't know
if you saw the one with me with the massive rabbit toy. I was like this is your child. It's really hard to show stage three online so maybe that's probably people like our fault.
Definitely. Maybe you could get some support and adults. Yes.
Oh really? To be filmed, that's a hard thing. Adults are much harder to convince to be filmed.
Yeah, it's definitely. We're trying to get permissions for filming the children so yeah stage three. It's much easier to
film stage one and two but the other two stages they're equally as impactful but if I I'll just
describe them. Yeah brilliant. While I'm on here in case people don't know or would like to know beyond
stage one. So the premise is that we provide this irresistible invitation to learn. So we are presenting
fascinating things and it's often from a bucket in the early years but and people call it bucket time actually.
A lot of times it's called bucket time and that's fine but it does not have to be a bucket. It could be a bag.
It could be a toolbox. It could be a hat. The important thing is that there's a lid on it.
So there's a surprise. It's magical what's coming out of the bucket and the children can't see it.
So it's something that they'll be hopefully when they know what's on offer really engaged with.
And it's just about locking on and attending to what's going on at the front.
The children are either in the group. Lots of times they come and just join the group or they might be
watching from a distance if they're not quite sure what's going on yet or they haven't seen it before.
They're a little uncomfortable with being in groups but the aim for us as the lead person, the lead teacher
is that they're watching and interested and engaged and it's just tops two minutes
and you're modelling and demonstrating to them where you want them to look.
So you might have something fabulous like this guy in the bucket who dances.
Right, hanging out with you is going to be expensive for my budget. I can tell already.
I agree. But it's a great point Jordan. It does not have to be expensive.
You can use what you've got to help but you want it to be, though it doesn't have to be expensive,
you want it to be fabulous and something that the children aren't playing with for the rest of the
day because then it gets a little old. It's not as engaging and as exciting right away.
So you do want to invest in toys and like you said, not joking when we're saying we want to love them too.
Do I love that guy? I mean it's fabulous.
And is there only a certain number of toys to bring out of the bucket?
Three.
Yeah.
Yeah, three.
Things happen in three, don't they, with attention autism?
Yeah, and a little bit of the curiosity program as well. The premise being, you know, you see it one time,
that's interesting. You see it another time and you're like, oh I've seen that before.
You see it one more time and you're like, oh I'm comfortable with this.
Yeah, repetition is a good thing. So we're saying three toys, three, something really nice and
engaging out of the box, basket, bucket, whatever it is for stage one. A couple of minutes and then
move on. Obviously I'm not going to go into every detail. There's a lot more to know than that.
No, you need the proper training. I've pinned it down actually.
Do the official training. This is just a very quick overview.
My colleague Lindsay, when she describes stage one, at the end she goes, who knew? There were
so many things to taking something out of a bucket. But obviously it's because we are adapting our
style to suit the learning needs of the children and that, if you're neurotypical, takes some learning.
Right, I love that. I love that.
It just takes a little bit because it feels unusual to, for example, to sing a song or say a rap
and look at the bucket instead of the children. But why we're suggesting that is because we don't
want to put social pressure on them. In the early days we're already thinking, what is this? Not too
sure. So we're trying to make it as safe as possible for them. We adapt our style for that.
And we also make use of whiteboards so that we tell them up front, this is what's going to happen.
First we're going to do a bucket, then we're going to do whatever it is we do later on. But in the
early days we're just doing stage one. Stage two then we are sustaining attention for a bit longer,
so it might go up to five or six minutes, maybe slightly more. And it's usually something
really sensory, like we're presenting a sensory experience to them. So it could involve pouring
water, it could involve pouring sand. Something visual isn't it? Glitter, something visual and
something colourful. We talk in the training having a really good contrast. And salons as well,
because obviously there's a reason why you pour water from up high, right? It's not just seeing
it, it's the sound, isn't it? It almost slows the process down as well. I feel like it's, yeah.
It's quite colourful and visual. It's really engaging, you know, because it's a lovely sensory
experience is what you're going to report with stage two. But as well as that, it's fun, it's
supposed to be fun and engaging for the children and errorless learning. They are there watching,
enjoying it and quite often engaging verbally. And the programme is for attention, engagement
and communication. So that's the aim, is that we want the children to engage in whatever level
they are. If that's non-speaking, then we're looking out for non-speaking attempts at communication
where what we call receiving and reflecting those. If it's verbal, fantastic, we're receiving and
reflecting those. And I'm getting slightly off topic. But we're busy, the lead is quite busy
with the bucket and all the ways to deliver it. And same thing with the other stages. So our
supporting adults, Jordan, as you know, we've talked about this, are really key. And it's their
role to make sure they're not missing any communicative attempts from the children and
just being encouraging around those, you know. So if a child's really excited, then the supporting
adult is also really excited about it. Or if the child is not that excited, the supporting adult is
still very interested in what... They're modelling. Yeah. That was one of the questions actually. How
is a teacher assistant or a support assistant, how can they best support the session? I think that's,
you've absolutely said it perfectly there. It's modelling what we would love to see the children
doing and almost giving the children permission to do that, to be excited about it and to engage in it.
Yeah. So your team, the lead adult and the supporting adults in the group are absolutely
working together as a team. So a little bit of training for them is excellent, you know,
even if they haven't been on the full attention autism programme. And as you say, that's the key
piece because it puts everything into place for you. They still need a little bit of information
about what to do because it might look unusual because it's... No, it not might, it will look unusual.
It will look unusual. I think you become disillusioned because we do it all the time.
It 100% looks very unusual. And also we are not insisting that the children are in the group.
Yeah. So they're off at some stage and we're saying just modelling demonstrate what it looks
like to be in the group. That's great. That is success if they're watching from a distance. And
that can be hard for supporting adults if you haven't been trained as to why you are doing that.
And so that's helpful is to know that information, no chasing, no insisting, just let the children
watch from a distance. That's fine. Or come to the group. And if they come to the group, that's
fabulous. They'll sit beside you. Don't make a massive fuss. We're just modelling and demonstrating.
And then they might say something. So if I had this guy and I looked at it and said,
oh, a dancing llama. They might say, fantastic to encourage that. Or they might say, a dancing llama.
So it's supposed to be natural, Jordan. It's supposed to be just the natural back and forth
almost conversation, but not a reciprocal back and forth of sentences. Just the
the predictable sequence, predictable language. But you wouldn't say, you know, if I said,
dancing llama and you said dancing llama, and then I had something else like roaring dragon,
and you said roaring dragon, that would get weird. So we do certainly do some repetition,
but you might pepper that when you got confident with it. It's yellow or wow,
or something like that, you know, that was just natural. It's supposed to be a natural back and
forth teamwork. But it takes some practice. And what we absolutely, absolutely does. And what
we've learned is that it is quite hard to use your voice. You draw attention to yourself when
you're using your voice. And I saw you doing those lovely vocals with your fancy ball.
The children, that's easy, but in front of adults, that's not so easy. So we take that
into consideration and try to make it a safe space for everyone. Yeah, and be a little bit relaxed
and safe as a safe environment to play. Enjoy it. I've never considered actually,
embedding that philosophy into your room in those sessions is a little practice.
But then outside of the room, what a fun, what outside the lesson, sorry, what a beautiful
way to embed that is that trust and that we're all here for the children, we're all here for the same
reason we can be silly in this class, we can make mistakes in this class, like, that's so important.
Something I haven't considered actually about attention autism is it's our opportunity to,
as adults teach each other and show each other like you cannot be too silly in this room,
you can't be as long as you're about the children, it's for the children. Yeah, everything is okay.
And we will never laugh at you, we will laugh with you. Yeah, and we will encourage it. Yeah,
I think that's really, it's a great safe session to practice those skills. Because like you say,
as neurotypical adults, it's so alien to us to be silly. Isn't it? And to let go. Yeah.
We can do it all day long for other adults who tend to calm it down a little bit. And, you know,
you don't have to in the attention autism always be switched on and, and, you know, hyper and,
you massive facial expressions, but you do a lot of the time. But sometimes you might be
teaching something that has happened that has been a bit sad. And so your tone might be a little bit
sadder. But it's a way or more sadder work. Don't know. You would be presenting it in a different
way with a different vibe. But a lot of the time what you're doing is using it to teach things like
emotion, like facial expression, those are all the sort of soft skills that are around it and things,
like you're saying, like feeling safe to be silly if it's for the time or, you know,
hamming it up a little bit and not being okay. You being absolutely encouraged by whatever adults
are around to do that. If that's working for that particular child, you would individualize it.
Because some children are shy and don't want that. And then you have to adapt a little bit for them.
I have it often where a child doesn't really want to have a turn or they don't really want to be
watched. And again, I just respect that. Okay, that's your consent. There's nothing in attention
autism. And this comes up often of forcing a child to do anything they're uncomfortable with.
It's encouraging all adults and children in the room to maybe get outside their comfort zone and
get full confidence and self-esteem in that way. But it's certainly not pushing anyone.
Yeah. No, it's really, that's one of the big principles of it is, you know, children,
we want them to be there because they love what's on offer and they're really enjoying it. And we
were saying on Saturday, you know, actually the opposite of that happens where you're like,
try and stop them.
As soon as I get the bucket out, I could not stop the children coming. Put them on the part.
It's not perfect, obviously. I don't want anyone to think, oh, my children don't. It's not perfect.
We're three years in now and they just know that it's bucket time. In fact, I missed it and I
gutted, I had a PPA time. And apparently one of my lads did the entirety of bucket stage one,
two and three, took three things out of the bucket, everything, did the whiteboard, everything.
He's, he's, class is non-speaking, he's echolalic, but obviously it was echoing my everything.
Even did the finishing song, everything. And I wish I saw it. I wasn't in the room. They told me about
it afterwards. But it just brings me so much joy because you try and stop them doing it.
They were like, she's not in the room, we're still doing it. I'll lead it.
I'll take it. Yeah, we care about it.
We care about it. Yeah, we hear that so much. And we actually do put into our training that
it's great if there's an opportunity for role reversal when the children are comfortable.
We really encourage that. So then you'd still, if that was happening in the room and there wasn't even a group around,
you know, the kid was just decided he was doing that, you would still be a really encouraging support novel.
Right, of course. Of course.
And we hear really great stories all the time about children going and finding something like a piece of paper
or a whiteboard or a book and throwing a bucket and giving it to their teacher to say...
Arm a bucket! I love it. I love that so much.
That's about the voice of the child, isn't it? Absolutely. And it's their request, isn't it? That's their motivator.
Yeah. And sometimes people will say, you know, they hadn't actually made a mark with anything before.
They had no interest in that. But again, yeah, it's really motivating.
It's a purpose, doesn't it? Marking for no reason, maybe just didn't give them anything, give them any feedback.
But marking for a purpose, like a request, something they want, which is exactly what the whiteboard is showing them in Attention Autism.
Exactly. It's that. It's their place. Honestly, it comes back to that, is they really want to do it and they want to be there again, once they know it's an offer.
But I think where things get skewed is that professionals see the group and people have maybe picked things up here and there,
you know, from people who have done the training or they did it years ago and they've forgotten
or they didn't have children that they thought maybe would fit in the group.
So they pick it up five or six years and they kind of don't remember the premise.
And then people see practice that's not high quality and then think, oh, you should, you know, Attention Autism insists that the task that's in the group, which we have.
I do that a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
Things get skewed.
So our response to that is talk to us, come to us directly and have a chat, basically.
And also we are in the process of doing training that involves updates.
You won't have to do, no one's expecting people to do the whole training again, but give us an hour of your time and jump in for the updates.
Because things have changed in education all the time in every area and you want to move and adapt while remaining Autism specific.
And clarify as well. Yeah.
Some things maybe were assumed before and you want to clarify what these things are.
Yeah, they are questions I get a lot often actually about children being settled.
Do they have to sit? And also another question is what, what, how do you get them to want to join?
And my answer to that is be more fun.
If they're not wanting to join, then I'm not meeting their special interests enough or I'm not meeting their sensory needs enough or I'm not being big enough.
Or I'm not being, I'm being too big. Whatever it is you kind of want to tune in to the children and then and then they will want to come if you do it right.
So it's all about it's not about adapting them and moving them to us.
It's very much about, OK, I'll change up my toys then.
Or maybe maybe this doesn't reach them. Maybe I'll try something else.
Maybe I'll try something else. If you're one of those teachers that it's just not working, they don't want to join.
Well, one, what are you supporting adults doing?
Are they modeling what we're expecting? Because the kids might not know what you want them to do.
And then also, yeah, just kind of change up your resources and see if that helps.
That's a really long way with everything that you do in a classroom or any classroom.
So, yeah, you would reflect on what's happening.
Could you do something different?
Would it be more interesting to do it this way?
How can we make them feel more comfortable?
Just to watch and then go from there.
And if it's not, if the child isn't interested after a couple of weeks,
and you're doing your best and you've had team meetings and you're looking at things that they like and you're adding them in
and the children are not that engaged, then we'd say, well, let's try something else first.
Maybe go through intensive interaction and the curiosity program type approach.
They may not actually be ready for it.
That is a great segue into the curiosity program, because often that is what I suggest.
So if somebody says I'm one to one with my pupil, they are working at 12 months, 18 months developmentally.
Yeah, we're one to one. They just want everything out of the bucket.
They tip it up. They put stuff back in. What am I doing wrong? What should I do?
And I say, oh, hang on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're doing bucket time.
I think you should be doing the curiosity program. Yeah.
Could you tell us a little bit more about the program?
And then maybe we could chat about that as well.
I've really tried and they have, you know, very obviously visual boundaries in place that are suggesting your space, my space.
If it's a very short period of time, it's fantastic choice.
But after two or three times, the child is still not engaging, then they may be just not developmentally ready.
So we talk about the curiosity program being for children who are under two and a half years developmentally.
So that is a program that is about connection, engagement.
The attention autism program is about connection and engagement too.
But there is an expectation that at some point the child will want to come to the group if you're getting as laid out.
And they can cope in a group. Right. Exactly.
Yeah. So for children who are not ready for that, then the curiosity program is one to one.
But again, it is a very much about connection.
So there are also four stages to it.
And it's really good early years practice is what it is.
And it is linked to how children who are autistic learn.
So, again, it is about adopting the lead teacher, the lead adults approach to fit with the learning style of the children.
So we are in the first stage of interaction type activities where we're just making connections.
So, Deanna Davies and Dave Shett were colleagues back in the day and realized separately that they were doing these things instinctively
because they're brilliant practitioners and we're reading their children.
And so the first part is about engaging, connecting, making that connection with the child, letting the child lead you go in.
No pressure just sitting beside them a little bit of distance.
And then when you have the connection, adding a little invitation, maybe to do something, something else and seeing how the child responds to that.
And if they don't want that, you take the lead from them.
If they do, then you have a lovely little game with them.
So where it differs, Jordan, is that what Deanna noticed was that people would say, parents would say, teachers would say, how many times?
When do I know when to go on to the next thing? What is the next thing after that?
Is there something else we could do?
People, as in us adults, like structure as much as autistic children do.
We like to say.
It's a very human trait to want structure and regime.
It makes you feel comfortable. Yeah, exactly.
So that's what the Curiosity Programme adds.
A lot of other things too, which I'll tell you about now, but to that first stage, it adds how many times, how long.
And we're basically saying the Curiosity Programme, this is not a race to the end, relax, enjoy the process, trust the process.
We say that in attention autism too.
But attention autism is round about an eight week programme before you get to the end.
But Curiosity Programme, we are just watching what the child's doing, connecting with them.
And then we add singing and music and rhythm because children love that.
All children love that. Autistic children love it too.
Yeah, especially an adult education teacher or nursery teacher, I know, has a song for everything.
And that's part of the idea of that, isn't it?
Yeah.
You're making up songs that are too familiar tunes that a child might enjoy.
The child makes a connection with that.
So we call them signature songs because they match whatever it is the child is doing.
You might use the child's name, but it's something that they're going to be doing every day that they are going to be really familiar with.
So you pick a song, you go around the mulberry bush and you make it a bit to the milk is going round and round or whatever it is.
That's Waze on the Bus, I know.
Mine is always Waze on the Bus.
No matter what work I do, it's always Waze on the Bus.
Mine can be Mulberry Bush and Bread a bit.
It just depends. But you pick a tune and you make it work for that child as to what they're doing at the time.
It's fun. Again, it works because it's fun for everybody.
If you've got an older child, an older young person, the program can be used with them as well.
If they are in those very early stages of communication, we use them thrive.
But we might do instead of Mulberry Bush.
It's all about the washing, washing, washing, something like that.
So you have it person appropriate.
Yes, so the song would be a little bit different.
Or if that child liked nursery rhymes, we'd go with nursery rhymes.
But we changed it up a little bit for the older kids. But what I'm saying is the older children, young people, it's a really lovely program for them too.
And then we, in the third stage, what we're going to do is create curiosity.
Now, as you know, autistic children are curious, naturally curious about lots of things.
Often you can't predict it.
They'll find something that they're interested in and it might be trains and it might be dinosaurs.
Those are all the kind of typical things that we see.
But what the premise of that part is, the creating curiosity part, is that the world is full of fascinating, interesting things.
And if you really love trains and every time there's a downtime, you go to your trains,
then you might miss out on all the things that are also out there.
It might also like if you spent less time on trains.
Now, we're saying plenty of time on trains, loads of time on whatever the enthusiasm is.
Go for it. Have that. Definitely do it.
But look at this. This is amazing.
So we have gorgeous little containers.
And that's a nice little tin that I have there that we use at one of them along the creating curiosity stage.
It's just something amazing.
Now, this doesn't have anything too fabulous, but you might have a tin like this.
And then you might have some of these in the tin.
The good guys, they might be in there and you would take them out and have a look at them
and then give it to the child and play with them together.
Now, I know what you're thinking. Lorraine, health and safety.
That's a very small googly eye.
You are right there with the child, right there.
So you're being very careful around that.
And if you do have a child, obviously, who puts everything in their mouth before you can blink,
don't use a googly eyes. Use something else.
That's me at home.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
But lots of children love that.
So you might you then follow their lead and that curiosity part.
So now they're interested in something else and you find with them together lots of things
that they're interested in and quite often things that are in their environment.
So it might be something really simple like spoons or something that's around them
that are going to sound really good, maybe on a tin tray or lentils on a plastic tray
or something that they see all the time.
Even I'm just noticing here there's a kitchen roll beside me.
You know, out with the kitchen roll, so engaging.
So we are creating curiosity.
And again, how many times, how often to do it and lots of ideas.
So little containers are involved.
So if any of you are coming on the training or want to do curiosity training,
gather up all your little pieces of jewellery boxes and fabulous looking containers.
It is important what the container looks like because that really encourages engagement.
If you've got something sparkly or unusual, rough or fluffy,
that really helps the children to engage too.
So it's important what you're using to create the curiosity base.
The fourth one is playing together.
I nearly had to do that.
So, yeah, lovely stage of playing together.
So we're trusting the process. It's not a race.
We could be doing these for quite a long time.
And so it is just what it says, you know, so building blocks or building cups off
of the top of the table, but always taking the lead from the chat.
You can see why that flows so well into attention autism, can't you?
Because all of a sudden they're interested in other things other than their one special interest.
So all of a sudden you've got more likely to get engagement out with the things that you're doing in attention autism.
They're also noticing you as the adult as having something to offer them.
Yes, exactly.
Or just meeting their own sensory needs and interests.
So that also leaves itself so beautifully to an independent autism.
So already they're learning those skills one on one, aren't they?
And then you're putting them into the group setting once they feel more confident, maybe, in those skills.
You're right, Jordan.
And you would not necessarily stop the curiosity programme because you're in the attention autism programme.
What we find is that children come on really well with the curiosity.
And so quite a lot of teachers, therapists run the programmes side by side for a while,
until they're ready to be into the attention autism programme.
And then, of course, the key piece that you said earlier is using the strategies outside of the group.
That's where we're headed, actually, is these strategies being embedded in everyday life.
So children are going to start to know.
And it's hard for an autistic child to learn this, actually.
And it's hard for a teacher to teach these kinds of skills, like look to someone to see what to do.
How do you teach that? Anyone.
It gives you a structure in which to teach these really important skills that are.
And also time.
So we have 30 minutes a day set aside to teach these skills.
And I think as teachers, it's so easy to get sidetracked with your maths or your English or whatever you call it.
You know, your your sensory stories, whatever you've got a slot for everything by carving out 30 minutes a day for attention autism.
Basically, what you're saying is this is just as important.
But what it can teach teaching is anything that needs to be teaching in that moment.
But you've carved that time out. Otherwise, it's so easy to get. Yes.
Isn't it?
And I love I told you this on Saturday. I don't know if people saw your idea about the socks and taking yourselves to trampoline park and teaching that through your attention autism program.
That is a gorgeous way to.
We were going on a trip to a trampoline park and we hadn't been on a trip with my class for the whole year.
So it was a really big thing going on a trip anyway.
And to go to the trampoline park, you have to wear these sticky socks and they are so non-autistic friendly.
They feel weird. They're brightly colored. They're trainer socks like these.
So they don't go all the way up. You know, it's not so much.
We don't even wear socks. They will just wear crocs.
So for the first thing, it was such a big barrier.
I felt an unnecessary barrier for my children to engage in the trip, which is a trampoline park, which I knew they would love.
I didn't want the socks to become the issue and a barrier for them enjoying it.
And I knew that the trampoline park staff were going to be very strict with us that they would have to wear the socks in order to enjoy the trampolines.
So initially I thought, right, we're not going to get there and then struggle with this.
And so we spent all week because we do it every day.
We spent all week. My stage two activity was me putting on the socks and bouncing on the trampoline, having a brilliant time.
And then my stage three was them putting on the socks and then having a jump on our trampette and having a brilliant time.
So that when we go to the trampoline park, it's not a complete shot when I showed them the now next strip and it says socks and then trampoline,
because they've been practicing this every day for the week leading up to it.
They've also practiced trying on the socks so they know the feel of them.
It's not as scary and they're doing it in a safe environment rather than already feeling anxiety, feeling heightened by being in it somewhere new.
Right. And with noises and smells and all sorts of things going on as well.
Actually, they're in a very safe environment with a very safe structure.
They know so well, they know the attention autism structure so well now.
They're really secure in that. Yeah.
It was a perfect opportunity to learn those new skills and it worked beautifully.
All but one put on the socks out of ten, which is, I mean, that is incredible.
And the one child did eventually, it took them about 20 minutes out of the hour, but they did eventually do it.
And it's huge. It's huge. I can't express how huge that is.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, it was really clever on your part to think that's going to transfer so well because it's a safe environment that they feel safe in.
It wouldn't obviously have worked, Jordan, if you'd just started the program, but the children were very impressed with it.
So it is, you know, there are lots of there's lots of places you can take it when you have the the premise, the skills.
And when you're doing it.
In the pandemic, we also did one about wiping noses, washing hands.
How do you teach all the school, everyone was teaching about washing hands.
How do you do this with my sensory class?
Well, bring it into attention autism.
All of a sudden, we are washing glitter off our hands because it's a fun activity.
You know, all of a sudden, it's fun. It's motivating and it's teaching a really important skill.
Yeah, absolutely. Potentially life saving actually.
Yeah.
So, yes, there's lots of innovative ways that you can use it.
And the thing is, keep on going. You know, we talk about this in the training as well.
It's all very well if you have done the training.
Just you've just done it. You're excited.
People will write to me and say, Lorraine, I've been teaching for 23 years.
I got my mojo back because of this.
And it's fabulous. But then 10 years, if you did it 10 years ago, the thing is, where do you take it?
What do you do? How do you keep motivated?
That's a really important part of the process too.
So we are saying have grips in your school, have good ideas.
You know, there's lots of good ideas online.
We always have a slight caveat around that because we want people to get really high quality information about getting it right.
But for ideas, there's lots of information out there that will help or create your own.
You know, go to an art museum and look at an installation and think they're using, they're using slinkies.
I could use slinkies to do blah, blah, blah.
I've watched the kids as well. So sometimes I've got one of my ideas was stimming with a slinky.
Basically, that's what I say too. And that's what I say stream actually.
I did it as well because I watched a boy stimming with a slinky and thought, actually that looks really fun.
Like you've got something that I would ever have come up with by myself because I use a slinky.
Like, you know, Norah Typicals do and I do the slinky like because we're taught to.
But he was wiggling it and it was making some and it makes your eyes go all funny and it looks really great.
And I thought, well, there's a stage check.
You know, so watch them because sometimes actually they have the better ideas than we do.
Watching the children is a really good idea or just thinking about what's happening in the community at the time.
So Wimbledon, I presume, is coming up at some stage. I don't think so.
So you could do stage three around tennis and then the children are hearing in class.
That's a category that they might be hearing all the time outside of class and it can all come together for them.
So it's a really good idea to think about what's topical, you know, what's going on.
This as well. It's really hard and re as well.
I really struggle to think of meaningful ways of teaching the children.
And I'm very authentic with my teaching. I'm quite stubborn as well.
I don't do anything I can't I don't think will be meaningful for my children.
So if I can make it meaningful, which often is through attention autism, you know, they can experience something.
And I do it through that. So, yeah, it could be a national day or a special day.
You know, there's a holiday for everything, isn't there?
At the moment, which is really important.
But for example, Down syndrome on Socks Day, really important event that I really want to celebrate with my class.
But how do I do that with my learners?
You know, and it's taking us is taking through that.
We also lost a pupil this year in my class.
Horrendous. You know, how do I support my students to navigate that?
Yeah, do it with attention autism. And I really like that you spoke about earlier about it can be sadness to and modeling that and honoring that.
And I think, yeah, why why not use attention autism for all of those things that we're supporting our children to navigate?
Absolutely. Yeah.
You couldn't teach them through a book or story because they're just not there.
They're just not there. It would be it would not be as meaningful in those ways.
And I think the key is just getting your head around.
How do you match the objective or the aim that you have to do something that's going to be engaging, interesting, irresistible?
How do you do that? But you can get into that mindset.
I used to talk about being in a visual mindset, like a visual learning mindset.
And it's it's like, how can I help that child make sense of that activity in a visual way?
I started to look at it where it would make sense.
And it's the same thing with attention autism is how do I teach it in a way that gets all the main points across?
But they are going to understand maybe not the first time you do it, but you can also do repetitions.
Yeah.
It has the biggest chance of them understanding thing. And we've got to presume competence.
I just have to say that. Yeah. I just have to say that.
Let's let's offer it to them and assume that and that it's going to be understood, even if it doesn't look like it's going to be understood.
Let's assume. Yeah. In the program, you know, you may have something like these buttons or whatever.
And you might say at the end when you're playing with child at some point, you would say, oh, a big red button, like a red moon or something like that.
You know, something really imaginative or like hailstones or if you've got something floating there.
And because we are starting somewhere, you've got to start somewhere and we're going to say, right, the child's enjoying this.
What better time to teach them something? Yeah. And it doesn't hurt to assume competence.
Right. Yeah. My fear actually as a teacher is to have an incredibly competent child that isn't able to show us that and mean not have done enough.
That is for me. That is my biggest fear. Yeah. Yeah. So to combat that, I'd really try hard not to ever assume otherwise. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. So, yes, we take these things into consideration.
It's it's it's good autism practice, Jordan, is what I said at the beginning.
Really is what it is. We're working on the premise of good early years practice and good autism specific practice.
Actually, I hear that a lot. So it's called attention autism. Can only autistics do it?
Is a question I get a lot. Everyone can do it. In an autism session, they are just as benefiting from it as any any child with either a communication or social difficulty will absolutely benefit from attention.
Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Or a young, typical development. Yes. Yes. Yes. Learning those social skills, learning those communication skills, learning the attention skills and engagement skills will benefit.
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's it's almost no offense. I have to say it's almost poorly named because it kind of people assume that it's not for them. Yes. It really is. It really can be. Yeah.
Attention everyone. Yeah. Everyone. Exactly. Well, I think that's why some teachers refer to it as bucket time. Yeah. Yeah.
And also, you can't put a symbol on. It would be a bit strange to put a symbol on a child. It's easier to physically say as well. Some of the children can say bucket time.
We're all like bucket time. As long as you know it doesn't have to be a bucket time. Yeah. One of the questions was, do people call it bucket time because they haven't had the official training?
Can you not call it, can you not call it attention autism if you haven't had the training? I don't think that's what it is. Bucket time or suitcase time doesn't have quite the same ring to it. No. We love bucket time. Bucket's so lovely to say in the early years. It is.
They come in all these colourful types and shapes and sizes. But we're basically saying don't just use one bucket, either paint it out. Then use an egg if it's Easter time and use something else so children understand they can be flexible around it.
Because what if you only use a pink bucket with a purple lid and then someone borrows it one day? Right. Do something else and then autistic children often do not like that without making it. It's good subtle practice to acknowledge that sometimes things change and that's OK. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
There are there are lots of additional skills that you can teach with that maybe aren't it's not necessarily about attention, but can't learn them unless you're attentive. But you may not be attending in the way that a neurotypical child attends.
And that's what we're taking into consideration hugely in the programme. So I think we're fans, Jordan, both of us.
Do you think? Do you think it's obvious? Do you think?
Somebody said actually, where can we find the training? Is it virtual or face to face? How long is the training? I suppose for both of the programmes, I suppose that might be. So both of them are either face to face or virtual. The curiosity programme is one day training. The attention autism programme face to face is two days. The attention autism programme is 75, it's very specific, 75 minute sessions for six sessions for attention autism online.
Lots of people do it in the twilight hour, you know, three thirty four thirty four to five type time because that's six skills.
And the curiosity programme is five online sessions. So over 75 minutes as well. People can concentrate pretty well at the end.
I've done and they do it really well, actually. I did the curiosity programme virtually and you go into every fifteen minutes, you kind of go into the group. He's really clever. I don't know how you do it. But you like split everyone into groups and then you can kind of check a little bit and show them your back all together again.
And it's very visual and very engaging. Of course, it is. Gina Davies, of course, it's engaging. But yeah, don't worry if you struggle with screens or attending for a long time yourself, because they you do it like you do the attention autism session.
It's a very separated and bits and I feel like you keep the engagement. Yeah, really well. And that's also showing exact physical examples. And I didn't feel like I've done obviously in person and virtual and I didn't feel like I any one was better than the other.
I've got a lot from that is really good to know. Yeah, we really do try hard. Gina originally, obviously, and Lindsay to work with. Yeah, was there actually. I'm setting up into groups that to all that.
Yes, they both worked really hard on making the online version interactive research in the high. What can people do that slot that's that's going to help them engage. Of course, they can practice what they create in that way. So, yes, they're both engaging.
And you can find them on our website. Attention Autism dot co dot UK.
I think what what's really important is to do the training as well. If you are doing bucket time already. That's that's fantastic. I'd rather you did do it with your children, but I'd rather you also do it well and do it.
This is based in science and there's a reason why you this isn't just pulled out of thin air. There's a reason why they ask you to do certain things in certain ways.
And I think it's really important to acknowledge that. But yes, bucket time is really fun, but it's even better. And you'll see even better results if you do it the gene Davies way. And I don't want to be fluffy around that. I feel quite passionate about.
Yes, in the training. I think that is the key pieces. You will see better outcomes. You will feel more natural to you as well. You're not according to the guidelines.
And a couple of people. What's the last question as well is what if a child attended bucket time and now isn't interested? Do you go back to the curiosity or city approach or just go back to focusing on stage one?
I mean, I suppose what I would do is try and change up what I'm doing with bucket time. Maybe maybe change the location. I might take outside. I might make it a bit bigger, a bit messier outside.
Maybe the adults have also got a little bit bored of it because it's a bit samey and kind of maybe retrain some adults and get some fresh ideas. I don't know. What would you say?
I would say all of that, endorse all of that and have a little bit of reflection time as you take and say what's going on? Why is it not liking it? How long has it been doing it?
Any fresh things? Is there a part for role reversal there where he can do some? Or just present your other lessons in an attention, autism type way. Like we're doing pancake day.
So we're taking out the pancake. That would be fantastic. But not necessarily in the group. Maybe at the kitchen area or wherever you normally teach those kind of skills in the different context.
I would take them out of the group. But I'd need to know more info to give you really good direction.
Absolutely. I think that with any work based task, if the children aren't wanting to do it, then it's not up to the children to change it up to us. To either change it to what it looks like, how we're presenting it, the location of it, what it is, whatever.
Just about changing it up and experimenting it as if it's new. Because I think we're our own worst enemy sometimes, aren't we? We get stuck in the routine and actually why don't we change it up? Why don't we add new things? And sometimes our budget dries up as well. And then we need to think more creatively about how, because there's loads of ideas you can do for nothing.
It's got to think more creatively maybe. All of those tips and tricks you're giving there Jordan are a good idea. But he just may be ready for more of the same but in a real environment. In a more naturalistic environment outside of the group.
That's the idea of teaching the skills to go out into the real world. Yes, that is the idea. He's ready to go out into the world. Thank you so much Lorraine. I already know this has been so important and it's just so encouraging and I really hope people watch this and parents feel one more involved in what their children are doing at school maybe.
And maybe want to have it go themselves. It would be really great.
And then teachers also feel a bit more confident to either have a go for themselves with the training or if they already have the training to maybe it's hopefully it's given them some of their mojo back and they want to go in there with them a little bit more pizzazz.
Exactly. I'll see you next week. Bye.