1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,360 Welcome to Surfing Political Waves, a short series podcast hosted by the Pepperdine School 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:07,360 of Public Policy. 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,300 This is Dan Schnurr. 4 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:10,300 And I'm Joel Fox. 5 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:15,520 And we're bringing you California election insight and analysis as the country ramps 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:20,720 up to one of the most historic presidential races in memory, as well as other fascinating 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:26,880 campaigns up and down the ballot. 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,880 Well, welcome to Surfing Political Waves at Pepperdine University. 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:32,880 This is Joel Fox. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:39,960 And my special guest today is Rob Green, an editorial writer who writes for the Los Angeles 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:40,960 Times. 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:47,480 He covers criminal justice reform, the Los Angeles city and county governments, and many 13 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,880 other issues. 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,800 But the thing we ought to talk about with Rob, and we will in a minute, is that Rob 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,480 won the Pulitzer Prize for editorial writing. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,120 That's a big deal, folks. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:05,640 It's one of the top, if not the top, writing award in journalism, one that a few years 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,200 ago, it will get into what he wrote about. 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:17,080 But let's start this conversation about editorial writing for newspapers in 2024. 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:25,160 Editorials, newspapers, very powerful instruments many years ago, maybe not so much today. 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,520 So Rob, let me put you on the spot right away. 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,920 Do newspaper editorials influence elections? 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,480 Well, good question, Joel. 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,600 I guess I would say that it depends on the election. 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,240 So not on the year of the election, but the particular office or measure. 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:48,600 I don't think an editorial is going to sway a presidential election. 27 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:55,840 Might not even sway a gubernatorial election, but on things like ballot measures and people 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,440 who are running for your city council or your board of supervisors, definitely people who 29 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,640 are running for a superior court judge. 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,540 Yes, I think a newspaper editorial can make a difference. 31 00:02:06,540 --> 00:02:11,440 So in those races that you just described where the editorial may make a difference, 32 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:18,160 tell us about the process for you as an editorial writer, for your team on the editorial board, 33 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,720 reaching a decision on which way to go. 34 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,360 How does all that work out? 35 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,520 Well, you said team, Joel, and that's correct. 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,000 I am a member of a team. 37 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,720 There are six of us, all of us write editorials. 38 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:43,360 And we, rather than just write our own opinions each individually, we work as a team and we 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,520 write as a board on behalf of the Los Angeles Times. 40 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,920 So we decide ahead of time what we're going to write about, and then we will argue with 41 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:52,920 each other. 42 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:58,040 We do a lot of arguing in a nice way about the pros and cons of different positions. 43 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:04,480 And when we're talking about an endorsement, we'll assign one person with a backup person 44 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:10,200 to kind of be the point person and bring back all the information that we need to know about 45 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,120 a particular electoral race and about the candidates. 46 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,280 And then we will make our arguments among each other. 47 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:24,400 And then one person will be assigned to write the first draft of that editorial. 48 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,960 Once that is assigned and finished, does it have to circulate among the staff again for 49 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,240 approval? 50 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,240 It depends. 51 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,520 Generally, it doesn't. 52 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:40,960 We have editors and the editors will make sure that it is in accord with what we had 53 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,480 discussed previously. 54 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,440 But everyone has the option of taking a look at it after the editor is done with it just 55 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,720 to make sure that we're all on the same page or that we are all where we intended to be. 56 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,880 So speaking of being on the same page in the debates around the board, is everyone like 57 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,560 minded on the editorial board? 58 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:03,240 I mean, clearly, people would argue that the LA Times has a specific point of view that 59 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,720 seems to cut across a lot of issues. 60 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,720 If someone with a contrary point of view, did they get an opportunity to join the board? 61 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:23,760 Well, we do as a board, we do have a point of view and we don't try to encompass every 62 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:24,760 possible point of view. 63 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,760 We represent the point of view of the newspaper as an institution. 64 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:35,480 So the newspaper as an institution is not a hard right conservative institution. 65 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:42,360 And so we don't have hard right conservative points of view on the editorial board. 66 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:48,080 When we want to talk to people who are expressing those points of view, we invite them as guests 67 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:53,040 to speak with us and they can speak for themselves on the op-ed page. 68 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,440 But we don't make an attempt to be completely representative of every point of view in the 69 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:07,240 country because otherwise, every editorial would essentially be an election and that 70 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,800 wouldn't really get us very far. 71 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,400 Do you clear your editorial positions with the publisher or the newspaper? 72 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,920 The publisher has the opportunity at any time to take a look at what we're working on. 73 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:19,960 So it's up to the publisher. 74 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,440 So it's not a matter of our writing something and then sending it to the publisher and saying, 75 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,800 are you okay with this? 76 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,680 The publisher will let us know whether he's okay with it. 77 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:38,680 So you're looking at evidence, you're looking at balancing opinions and analyzing evidence 78 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,040 and maybe even crusading to some point of view. 79 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:49,080 How much does community attitudes play into editorial positioning? 80 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:55,640 It makes a difference because even though we are not news reporters in the sense that 81 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,880 we don't work in the newsroom, we work separately because we are in opinion, we do reporting. 82 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:07,480 And as reporters, we need to find out as much as we can about a particular issue or with 83 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:14,560 an endorsement about a candidate or a particular office or a ballot measure. 84 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,360 So that includes going out and talking to people who are directly affected by those 85 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,360 candidates or ballot measures or issues or what have you. 86 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:29,480 So before we get into the coming election here and how the paper is positioning its 87 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,240 opinion, let's just revisit what I started with. 88 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,480 And that is the fact that, congratulations, Rob, you won the poll. 89 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:37,480 It's a prize. 90 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:38,480 That's a big deal. 91 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:39,480 Tell us about it. 92 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:40,480 Tell us about that. 93 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,160 Yeah, tell us about that. 94 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,160 What did you write about? 95 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,960 What happened? 96 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,480 I was writing editorial. 97 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,680 Well, I write editorials. 98 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,040 I write editorials every day or at least several times a week. 99 00:06:54,040 --> 00:07:00,720 And the ones for which I was recognized came in 2020, which I'm particularly proud about 100 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,240 because as you know, 2020 was a singular year. 101 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:14,320 2020 was the year of George Floyd and the pandemic and lockdowns and protests and the 102 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:21,600 disputed presidential election disputed, I guess, only by Donald Trump and his supporters 103 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,680 culminating in the attack on the Capitol after 2020. 104 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:33,040 But I wrote a series of editorials that kind of drilled down on particular things during 105 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,840 that year that were some of them were Los Angeles oriented, but some of them were nationally 106 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:46,420 oriented and they had to do with things like justice and equity. 107 00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:50,160 So they weren't necessarily about the killing of George Floyd. 108 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:56,040 They weren't necessarily about the pandemic, but they were about issues that affected us 109 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,280 that were driven by those events during that year. 110 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:07,320 So let's talk about that because you wrote and won your award because of articles on 111 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,680 justice and justice reform. 112 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,120 That was for 2020, as you just well described. 113 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:20,800 Now it's 2024 and there seems to be a change of attitude, particularly among voters in 114 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:27,180 Los Angeles city and county and probably across California. 115 00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:29,080 How do you view this change? 116 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,000 How did it come about? 117 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,880 And ultimately, I'm going to ask you, have you changed over the course of the four years? 118 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:42,180 Okay, let's start with your first question. 119 00:08:42,180 --> 00:08:44,520 Has there been a change in attitude? 120 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:45,520 I think that was your first question. 121 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,260 Has there been a change in attitude? 122 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:48,920 And there certainly has. 123 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:57,600 2020 again was the year of the killing of George Floyd, but also of Breonna Taylor and 124 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:05,860 a number of other incidents that made people concerned about the justice system, a system 125 00:09:05,860 --> 00:09:14,160 that we in the United States, we revere and want to protect, but which has some flaws 126 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:21,040 that became impossible to ignore in that year. 127 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,840 And so it was a year of reform. 128 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:31,600 They were one of the editorials for which I was recognized and thank you kindly for 129 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,600 bringing that up. 130 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:33,600 I appreciate it. 131 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,320 But one of them was an endorsement of the district attorney, George Gascon, who brought 132 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,080 a reform agenda to the DA's office. 133 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,400 He was a challenger. 134 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,760 He defeated the incumbent. 135 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:52,800 And now the Times had a story yesterday because he's at a reelection four years later, he's 136 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,960 something like 30 points behind. 137 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,400 And for him to pull out a victory at this point would be surprising. 138 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,680 So yes, things have changed a great deal. 139 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,960 So why have they changed? 140 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,120 Several reasons. 141 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:14,080 One is that I think that when voters in Los Angeles and elsewhere in the United States 142 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:22,740 embraced reform in 2020, the idea was new enough to a lot of folks that we weren't really 143 00:10:22,740 --> 00:10:28,080 sure what it meant and how far it ought to go. 144 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,400 And so some people embraced reform and said, yes, we need to change laws to make sure that 145 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,400 things are more equal. 146 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,640 But then they started hearing things like defund the police and they said, or even abolish 147 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:37,640 the police. 148 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,760 And a lot of folks said, wait a minute, I don't think I signed on for that. 149 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:50,600 And I think that a lot of folks who had a stake in the way things were saw that concern 150 00:10:50,600 --> 00:11:00,240 and capitalized on it politically and started trying to drive a wedge and so played up fears 151 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,620 of crime. 152 00:11:01,620 --> 00:11:07,920 At the same time, there were indeed factually increases in crime. 153 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,480 And that is a concern. 154 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,160 And crime is a problem and it's real. 155 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,360 And it hurts people. 156 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,960 And so a lot of folks who were comfortable with reform previously said, wait a minute, 157 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,800 I think that some of the things that we adopted, some of the changes that we adopted, some 158 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,460 of the people that we elected are causing us harm. 159 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:28,580 They are causing crime to go up. 160 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:33,040 And so we need to ramp back a little bit. 161 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,640 And you asked me, Joel, whether it has changed, whether I've changed in those four years. 162 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:44,560 Well, you wrote, let me just tell our listeners that you wrote the editorial four years ago 163 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:50,600 that supported George Gascon for district attorney of Los Angeles. 164 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,240 And you write the editorial this time. 165 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,240 What did you decide? 166 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,600 Do you still support Mr. Gascon or not? 167 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:00,960 Tell us why. 168 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:08,600 Yes, we supported Gascon again because we thought that his policies, we believe that 169 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:16,440 his policies are best for the people of L.A. County, best not just for not just best for 170 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,520 justice, but best also for public safety. 171 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,440 I know that there are a lot of folks who don't buy that, but we had to spend a lot of time 172 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:30,160 looking at the claims that were made against him, that the particular policies that he 173 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,800 adopted caused an increase in crime. 174 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,460 And I find that that's really that's not the case. 175 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:44,000 First of all, the policies of a prosecutor rarely have an immediate impact on crime go 176 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,340 to bad. 177 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:47,960 So there's that to start out with. 178 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:54,120 But we also looked at the particular concerns that people raised about his policies. 179 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,920 And sometimes the concerns that were raised were just were just false. 180 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,520 So there was an assertion that he just doesn't charge misdemeanors. 181 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,120 Well, that's not true. 182 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:10,840 There are some misdemeanors that he doesn't charge, but serious misdemeanors he does charge. 183 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:17,920 And then there were concerns that some of the policies that he has gave people gave 184 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,180 people an incentive to commit crime because they felt that they wouldn't be prosecuted. 185 00:13:22,180 --> 00:13:27,100 Now, I can't tell you what's in the minds of people when they commit crime, especially 186 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:31,000 property crimes, especially those high profile crimes, but which we're all concerned that 187 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:39,600 we've seen the smashing rab robberies, the burglaries, the property crimes. 188 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,360 There are assertions that he hasn't he's not prosecuting those. 189 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,280 And we looked at the facts and that's just not true. 190 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,640 He's prosecuted those cases just as much as his predecessor did. 191 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,520 But the assertion is made that a lot of people who engage in those crimes think they're not 192 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:02,080 going to get prosecuted because they misunderstand his policies and that that has driven crime. 193 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,840 Well, as I said, I can't tell you what's in the minds of people who commit those crimes. 194 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,840 But we did become convinced that that his policies were not going easy on criminals. 195 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:25,200 What they did do for some folks, they shortened some sentences because we've also seen in 196 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:34,160 academic and sociological studies that sentences are sort of like medication. 197 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,260 You have to dose properly. 198 00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:43,120 And if you dose properly, you can have a really positive effect on driving down recidivism. 199 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,240 If you put someone in prison for a serious crime for too short a period and then let 200 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,800 them out, you're just encouraging them to commit more crime. 201 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,460 That stands to reason what a lot of people don't understand unless they study this issue 202 00:14:56,460 --> 00:15:05,640 is that if you keep people in prison for too long after the sort of the prime period for 203 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:15,440 driving down recidivism, you can also drive up the the the re-arrest rate or the likelihood 204 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,960 of a person committing crime. 205 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:23,280 So we liked Gascon's policies in that he was being smarter about sentences. 206 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,520 But I certainly understand. 207 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:31,600 I certainly understand people's concerns that that they were leading, that those policies 208 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,480 were leading to more crimes on the street. 209 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,960 It's a long, but I understand why they would think that. 210 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:44,440 In the real political world, though, I think you'll see that you spend a good portion of 211 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:51,920 the time just now making some very cogent arguments on your positioning with Gascon. 212 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:58,160 But those are hard things to sell to the public in the short commercials. 213 00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,160 Very hard to sell. 214 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,160 Yeah. 215 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,160 And the reaction on the street is, hey, I just read that they broke into the store down 216 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,160 the street. 217 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,440 And that becomes a real problem. 218 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,320 I think I want to go back, though, to well, let me ask you one more question on this, 219 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,520 because I know a lot of deputy district attorneys were against Mr. Gascon. 220 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:24,320 How did you weigh that when you were considering the endorsement? 221 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,540 It's an important factor. 222 00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:32,560 So you need an elected official who is going to be effective. 223 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,800 The policies are only part of the battle. 224 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:42,800 If you've got great policies and you can't get them done, then what's the point? 225 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:48,080 And I have to say that with Gascon, when he first ran, he hadn't done this job in Los 226 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,680 Angeles before, although he had been district attorney in San Francisco. 227 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,120 He hadn't done it in Los Angeles before. 228 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,840 We looked at the policies and we said, this is good. 229 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,120 This is what we want. 230 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,200 This is where we want to go. 231 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,920 And he actually started doing it in Los Angeles. 232 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:09,280 I mean, there are a lot of things that he did that gave me pause. 233 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,000 He did not work well with his deputies. 234 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,320 And I understand where he was coming from. 235 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,580 He knew that he was going to be opposed from the beginning. 236 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:26,300 So he made the strategic decision to not try to be a nice guy and get along and just kind 237 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:34,400 of rip the bandaid off, as they say, and impose his policies from the get go without buy in 238 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,880 from his deputies. 239 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,280 But strategically, tactically, that was the wrong decision. 240 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,680 And it wasn't, you know, certainly not good for the policy. 241 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:52,360 So if he is going to be defeated, it's his policies that also will suffer a setback. 242 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:57,880 I hope not not in their entirety, but to at least some extent. 243 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,160 So the question that we had to face was, do we change direction and go with a different 244 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,480 candidate who has policies we don't like as much but would be more effective? 245 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,880 And ultimately, we had to decide, well, no, because we don't want somebody who's going 246 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,960 to be effective at policies we don't like, that policies that we don't think are the 247 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,680 best interests of justice in Los Angeles County. 248 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,800 Although it was a conversation we had to have. 249 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,800 We had we did have to come to grips with it. 250 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,760 It wasn't a slam dunk. 251 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,760 And you obviously interviewed his opponent, Mr. Hockman, right? 252 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:30,760 Yes. 253 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:31,760 Yeah. 254 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,760 Yes. 255 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,440 I began our conversation by asking you, do newspaper editorials influence elections? 256 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,080 Or I think they play a role. 257 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,560 And be curious to know what kind of attitude you and your your team have. 258 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,240 When on television commercials, you'll see pop up. 259 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,840 The Los Angeles Times says vote yes on this proposition. 260 00:18:53,840 --> 00:19:00,160 The Los Angeles Times says this guy should not be elected to this position. 261 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:08,080 Thus, your editorial is spread much far and wide than it is just in the newspaper. 262 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,600 So give you any visceral visceral thrills to see that. 263 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,480 And what kind of reaction do you have? 264 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,120 Or is it just a ho hum? 265 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,120 Here we go. 266 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,120 It's an election year. 267 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:18,120 All right. 268 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,400 I'll tell you the truth, sometimes it makes my stomach hurt. 269 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,400 Really? 270 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,400 Tell me why. 271 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:27,840 Because we work so hard in our editorials and our endorsements to make a case, to make 272 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,840 an argument the same way we would make an argument, a closing argument to a jury. 273 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:43,200 We walk through facts and issues and do our best to to convince our readers why they should 274 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,880 vote for or against a particular ballot measure or a particular candidate. 275 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:56,080 And when we see it on screen taken by the campaign itself, all that is gone. 276 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:01,280 All you know, it's just Los Angeles Times tells you to do this or to do that. 277 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,440 So it hurts that the reasoning is gone. 278 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,020 And also sometimes they'll take our argument and completely turn it upside down. 279 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:15,440 So I haven't had the case before where someone will say that the Times says to do this when 280 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,920 we've actually said to do something else entirely. 281 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:27,760 But I have heard folks go on not just on TV ads, but say on radio interviews and instead 282 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:33,480 of making their own argument, refer back to the Times editorial or endorsement, which 283 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,360 at first gives me a thrill, especially if they make the argument that we made, if they 284 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,320 make it well, but then gives me a stomach ache again if they make if they state the 285 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,200 argument that we make and make it poorly. 286 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:51,120 It's like going into court and having some lawyer who's not very good make your closing 287 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,120 statement. 288 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:55,960 So you're telling me it's hit and miss with your reaction. 289 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,960 Yeah. 290 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:57,960 Yeah. 291 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,600 Let me let me ask you about another issue on the ballot, since I have this opportunity 292 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:01,600 to do that. 293 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:08,200 It's controversial, and that is Los Angeles County Measure G, which will add supervisors 294 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,160 to the Board of Supervisors from five to nine. 295 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,120 We would elect a CEO. 296 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:16,860 I know the time is taken in position. 297 00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:18,760 You're going to tell us what it is. 298 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,960 But tell us what went into that thinking when you reach your conclusion. 299 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:31,120 Part of what went into that thinking is where we've been on the issue generally in the past. 300 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:36,480 So as long as I've been with the Times, and that's 18 years, but even before that, the 301 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,840 editorial page has been an advocate for a change in county government. 302 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,400 We've wanted two things. 303 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,800 We've wanted a larger board of supervisors on the argument that it would be more representative 304 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,760 of the people in the county, because right now we only have five members of the board 305 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,400 for a county of 10 million people. 306 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,280 That means two million per supervisor. 307 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,080 I didn't know that there's any local government. 308 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,880 Well, I know there's no local government in the United States that has that many people 309 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,840 per constituents, per representative. 310 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,680 And we wanted an independent elected executive because just having a larger board without 311 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:21,200 having the checks and balances of three branches of government, which is a foundation of the 312 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,320 nation's organization and has been from the beginning. 313 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,080 Without that, we just enlarge the dysfunction of the county. 314 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,280 And county government is dysfunctional. 315 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,560 It's not really through any of the fault of the folks who are working in county government, 316 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:42,160 but it's impossible for the county to get anything done because of its structure. 317 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,240 So one of the things that went into it is that we've always been in favor of an independently 318 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,240 elected executive and a larger board of supervisors. 319 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,600 And I will tell you that when some of the folks who worked on this ballot measure told 320 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,020 us what they included in it, they said they included it in there partly because the Los 321 00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:03,020 Angeles Times had said these things for so many years. 322 00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:09,680 And I do still believe that these are two good things for LA County is to have the checks 323 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,480 and balances that it's lacking and to have more representative board of supervisors. 324 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,160 So there was that. 325 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:23,040 And then there was the question of what Los Angeles County almost always does with a ballot 326 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,360 measure before the election. 327 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,120 And they just pull it out of their back pocket at what's close to the last minute without 328 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,880 giving a lot of time for vetting or examining. 329 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,560 And they say, here it is. 330 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:35,560 Take it or leave it. 331 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,520 And it wasn't quite that bad this time, but it was close. 332 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,560 So this came up in July. 333 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,640 The vote is in November. 334 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,240 And so the question is, does something of as much import as this have enough vetting? 335 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:55,200 So we looked into it as much as we could and on balance. 336 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,920 Our conclusion was the county is dysfunctional. 337 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,560 We need to break that dysfunction. 338 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:11,600 And it's better to make these changes than it would be to wait for two years and try 339 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,280 it again after a long period of drafting and vetting, which probably would come up with 340 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,640 something that's not all that much different from what we have now. 341 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:26,680 Let's just note that, as you pointed out, it came up late. 342 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,640 And the fact that it got on the ballot was on a three to two vote by the supervisors. 343 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,600 So there was obviously a dissension there. 344 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,600 That's correct. 345 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:42,160 Part of our thinking is that, again, sorry to repeat myself, but we felt it was necessary 346 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,800 to break the dysfunction. 347 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,280 When the board agrees 5-0 or when the board is divided 3-2, either way, they still don't 348 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:49,640 seem to get a lot done. 349 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:56,320 So early this year, they commissioned a study to find out what would be the best way to 350 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,480 restructure county government. 351 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,800 And when this measure came up in July, they still hadn't sent that out for... 352 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,640 That was supposed to go out for bid so that somebody would study that question. 353 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,820 Still hadn't gone out for bid. 354 00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:11,960 That's part of the dysfunction we're trying to break. 355 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,920 So last question on this point. 356 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,200 An objection that I see to it, I actually agree with you that it should be a larger 357 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,240 board. 358 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,600 My concern with the CEO, and I heard your argument and you can restate it or tell me 359 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,040 I don't know what I'm talking about. 360 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,880 But what I see the CEO, which is essentially going to be the mayor of Los Angeles County, 361 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,200 is that the interest in... 362 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,640 I know this happens with all elections, the special interests, the labor unions, the businesses 363 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,800 are going to push to get their candidate in control, which will be a different kind of 364 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,440 government than if there were nine members on the board of supervisors. 365 00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,800 Did that cause any concern for you as it has, frankly, caused some concern for me? 366 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Of course. 367 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,400 The idea of one person with all that power, of course that's going to cause concern. 368 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,640 And then we have to remember that what would California be like? 369 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720 Whether you like the governor or you don't like the governor. 370 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,400 What would California be like if it was run by only the legislature? 371 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,480 If only the legislature proposed and adopted the budget. 372 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:29,960 If only the legislature proposed and then vetoed or signed every new law. 373 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,720 It's just not a good idea. 374 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,100 Same with the federal government. 375 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:35,520 What if Congress ran the federal government? 376 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,800 We had that with the Articles of Confederation. 377 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,160 We decided very soon. 378 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:48,000 By we, I mean our forebears back in the 18th century, decided that just isn't working. 379 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,800 It doesn't work for county government either. 380 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,120 Does it work for a small county like Sierra County or Modoc County? 381 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,700 Yeah, probably works fine. 382 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:03,320 Five people, you have what is in a sense an appointed city manager, except it's a county 383 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,320 manager instead. 384 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:11,680 That works fine, but Los Angeles County is the size and has the budget of a state and 385 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,440 not a small state. 386 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,000 It would be like the fifth largest state in the country. 387 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,680 We need checks and balances and we don't have that with an appointed chief executive because 388 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:28,920 the board can bounce the chief executive whenever that person does something that a board majority 389 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,920 doesn't like. 390 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,440 Okay, we're going to start wrapping this up, Rob, and I appreciate all of your sharp 391 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,680 answers and your time dedicated to this. 392 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:44,480 I'm going to ask one more question and maybe one open-ended one at the end. 393 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:51,080 I'd like your view on political influencing and the landscape of political influencing, 394 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,040 which has so dramatically changed. 395 00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,600 When newspapers were in their heyday, they really did have a great impact. 396 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Now along comes radio, then along comes television, now comes the internet. 397 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:12,080 What's your view of influencing the political influencing landscape today? 398 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,780 Well, it has changed. 399 00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:20,900 Because I work at a newspaper, I suppose I could express regret that newspapers don't 400 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:26,080 have the same influence that they once did, but when I got into the newspaper business 401 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:33,720 already, it was already in decline. 402 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,040 Elected officials or politicians who are running for office are always going to look for the 403 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,320 best way to reach people who will vote for them. 404 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:52,680 Whether it's newspapers or through social media, that's going to change. 405 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,160 Today it's social media. 406 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:02,320 Newspapers reach maybe a more, well, it would be unfair to say a more discerning voter. 407 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:10,960 Let's say a voter who is interested in more analysis of a particular issue or candidate. 408 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:20,520 A voter who is more interested in a more visceral understanding of a candidate might be better 409 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:29,000 reached through TikTok or some other social media. 410 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,200 The game really hasn't changed. 411 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,160 The players are always going to change. 412 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,800 Just the same way that the politicians change, the way that they reach voters is going to 413 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,440 change as well. 414 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,840 A newspaper editorial does not have the clout that it once does, doesn't have the power 415 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,480 to elect a president the way that it might have once. 416 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:57,440 But the people are always going to be finding a way and politicians are always going to 417 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:05,120 be finding a way to reach each other, whether the medium is newspapers or TV or radio or 418 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,120 what have you. 419 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,120 Very good. 420 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,840 Let me close with a open ended question for you, blindsiding you a little bit. 421 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,040 If you don't have an answer, that's fine. 422 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:22,960 Got any stories, anecdotes about your life as a editorial writer at the LA Times? 423 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,880 Could be humorous, could be dramatic. 424 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,800 Anything that you'd like to tell our audience? 425 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:42,240 I will tell you that in 2008, I was in Denver to cover the nomination convention. 426 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,240 Right. 427 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,240 Barack Obama. 428 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,240 Yes. 429 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,240 Yes. 430 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,120 Now, I wasn't there to cover Obama. 431 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:57,080 I was there to go to the California delegation, which met for breakfast every morning, as 432 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,320 most states delegations did. 433 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,160 And that's where you find out what's going on in the political world. 434 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:11,360 That's where the mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, and the mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio 435 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:17,920 Villaraigosa, both made their pitches to the top Democrats from California about why each 436 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,920 of them should be the next governor. 437 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,400 Now, neither of them were explicit about that. 438 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,640 They were just talking about the great things they had done for their city. 439 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,680 And you could tell they were being sized up by the delegates to that convention who were 440 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:39,000 there to nominate Barack Obama, but actually were there to figure out where to go next, 441 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080 just in terms of what's next for California. 442 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,080 That was fascinating. 443 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:51,000 The anecdote I had is that a couple of young women came up to me at the time, found out 444 00:31:51,000 --> 00:32:00,000 that I was an editorial writer at the Los Angeles Times and said, you know, you really ought to talk to our aunt. 445 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,480 She's the district attorney of San Francisco. 446 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,520 And you should have lunch with you. 447 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,520 She should have lunch with you. 448 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,220 Let's arrange something. 449 00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:12,480 And I said, yeah, that's nice. 450 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,760 I don't really have time. 451 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,140 I'm here for something else. 452 00:32:15,140 --> 00:32:16,840 And they were very insistent. 453 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,240 And so they arranged a lunch and that's when and how I met Kamala Harris. 454 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,760 Yeah, that's a great anecdote. 455 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,240 Which was which was fascinating. 456 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,080 We ended up not endorsing her for attorney general. 457 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,120 But but but she's managed to stick around on the political scene. 458 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,920 I've heard that rumor. 459 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,920 Yes. 460 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,200 Listen, congratulations on your Pulitzer Prize. 461 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,560 Thank you, Joel. 462 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,680 And thank you for spending time with us. 463 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:52,040 We're thanking Rob Green from the Los Angeles Times, surfing political waves here at Pepperdine. 464 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Thanks Rob. 465 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,240 Thank you, Joel. 466 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,880 Thanks for joining us for this conversation on surfing political waves. 467 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:06,260 For more engaging dialogue on politics and policy, visit Pepperdine School of Public Policy 468 00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:10,400 on YouTube at Pepperdine SPP. 469 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:18,240 For upcoming community events, go to public policy dot Pepperdine dot edu slash events.