1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,920 Hey there, welcome to Data Democracy. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,320 This is a podcast where we explore ways to make data and AI more accessible to everyone. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,360 We've got a great guest today, Robert Brill. 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,320 Robert is an entrepreneur, content creator, thought leader, and a podcaster. 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,720 And per our research, he's also a Dodgers and Inter Miami fan. 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:36,860 Robert is a trailblazer in the digital advertising industry and is the CEO of ProMedia. 7 00:00:36,860 --> 00:00:42,880 With decades of experience, Robert has been at the forefront of advertising industry, 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:49,080 from the birth of social media to sophistication and programmatic media buying, and now with 9 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,760 AI and digital media. 10 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:58,520 Robert is also a member of Forbes Business Council and Fast Company Executive Board. 11 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,760 We're super excited to welcome him to Data Democracy. 12 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:02,760 Robert, welcome. 13 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,760 Thank you. 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,760 Thank you for having me. 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:05,760 I really appreciate it. 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,760 Thank you so much. 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,520 I appreciate you taking the time. 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,520 Let's start from your journey. 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,000 Tell us your story. 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,000 Yeah. 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Yeah. 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,680 So I've spent 20 years in the advertising business, 10 years I've been bootstrapping 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,560 Brill Media. 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,720 And you know, I was very fortunate to work while I was in college because it gave me 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,960 about four years of experience to figure out the types of work that I wanted to do and 26 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:31,880 didn't want to do. 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,600 And you know, two weeks out of college, I got a job at Universal McCann, which is one 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,540 of the largest multinational ad agencies in the world. 29 00:01:41,540 --> 00:01:48,760 And it was really a formative experience to understand how big large organizations spending 30 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:57,800 tens of millions of dollars regularly wield ad buying and media to drive business growth. 31 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,800 In that time, I was doing Sony pictures, working on movies. 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,960 And it was just fascinating to see like all the intricacies of how a movie gets marketed 33 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:13,280 and the components of ad buying that were relevant in that equation. 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:14,280 Awesome. 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:15,280 Awesome. 36 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,560 That's a diverse and fascinating journey. 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,680 What does your day to day look like today? 38 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:22,680 Yeah. 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,640 So I wake up in the morning anxious and frenetic. 40 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:30,600 I go to sleep also anxious and also frenetic. 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:38,540 And in the middle, I try to do some work while trying to be less anxious and less frenetic. 42 00:02:38,540 --> 00:02:39,800 So that's my day. 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:48,920 We have a five year old and I'm married and during the evening time, we talk about dinosaurs 44 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:54,000 and monster trucks and monster jam and whatnot and a little Halloween thrown in here and 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,000 there. 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,000 But during the day, I'm squarely in front of my computer inundated with messaging from 47 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,800 all the different screens. 48 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:07,280 And some of it is self-imposed content. 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:14,200 I'm obsessively scrolling TikTok, but I try to get a few minutes of work in during the 50 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,200 day. 51 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,520 But yeah, I mean, a lot of what I'm doing right now is sales and marketing. 52 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:28,600 So my mind is oriented around generating demand, looking at opportunities to reach people, 53 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:34,480 looking for systems and processes that can be relevant for the ability to scale our business 54 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,560 even further. 55 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,560 That's awesome. 56 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:38,920 Yeah, absolutely. 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:46,360 With the changing landscape in media and advertising across all industries, I think you've got 58 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:53,520 to be on top of the different types of content and different things that are going on. 59 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,720 One of the things that's been on my mind is Sam Altman has a, and I think I heard this 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:09,000 on the All in One podcast, that Sam Altman has an internal, like a friend's WhatsApp 61 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:15,700 group where they're taking bets on when the first company that's built off of one person 62 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:19,400 and a lot of AI will reach a billion dollars. 63 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:28,960 So I don't have to do that and we're a 20 person team, but part of me is thinking, what's going 64 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:37,240 to be that trigger or that catalyst to create that, maybe not billion dollar company, but 65 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,000 multiple millions of dollars of company off of AI? 66 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:48,200 And I think anyone who's enterprising, anyone who is interested in challenging themselves 67 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:55,680 and has a passion for business or advertising or marketing or some element of business-like 68 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:03,040 stuff, operations, whatever, you could almost see that as a gambit. 69 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,080 Maybe it's me. 70 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,160 Maybe I can build that billion dollar company off of just AI. 71 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,160 I don't think it's going to be me. 72 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,300 I don't think I'm smart enough, but even if I fail and build a 5 million or 10 million 73 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:19,360 dollar company just exclusively off of AI, that would be a life-changing type of business. 74 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,040 Yeah, absolutely. 75 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,200 The landscape, the field is democratized. 76 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:37,200 It's even right now because even for me with this podcast, I've automated a lot of my processes, 77 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,880 research process on my guests and setting up questions. 78 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:46,080 And so it's definitely a research partner for me. 79 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:52,520 So instead of I don't have to hire at this point, but yeah, it's definitely fascinating 80 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:53,520 times we're living in. 81 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:54,520 Yeah. 82 00:05:54,520 --> 00:06:01,080 I mean, I made a video on TikTok yesterday as of this recording. 83 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,160 One of the things I've been tinkering with, I'm very... 84 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:11,520 My content on TikTok is about ad buying, seven things you can do to improve your Google ads 85 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:12,520 performance, et cetera. 86 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,680 And there's a few people who are kind of like blowing up. 87 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,920 They have like a few hundred thousand followers who are focused on advertising and media buying. 88 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,200 I have like 4,000 followers. 89 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:30,960 I don't know how to make media buying and the intricacies of advertising that interesting 90 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:31,960 on TikTok. 91 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,840 But what I noticed, what I'm really good at on TikTok is creating content around AI. 92 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:43,080 So even in just a very small, in a small way, I noticed like the last video I posted was 93 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:48,840 me talking to chat GPT, asking it for ideas of TikTok videos I can make and how to create 94 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:52,120 a story, tell a story off of that video. 95 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,080 Because the storytelling part is a little bit hard for me. 96 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,080 I'm a numbers guy. 97 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,040 I'm not a storytelling person. 98 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,840 And now that video has like 400 views. 99 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:07,200 It's not particularly viral or anything, but even just the number of likes, it's a higher 100 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,520 percentage, a higher ratio of likes on those videos than my other videos. 101 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:18,800 So I know consistently and I have a very good that went viral around AI, which I just saw 102 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,600 at a conference and I talked about it. 103 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:30,160 But the, but I just know that content made about AI right now on TikTok is far more interesting 104 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,320 than boring fundamentals of ad buying. 105 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:43,800 So I'm orienting around, I'm starting to orient around AI and AI content creation, content 106 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,800 creation about the topic of AI and how it can be used for business. 107 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,280 And I think, I think this is the place to be right now. 108 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,280 Absolutely. 109 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,280 Absolutely. 110 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:59,120 AI has all the hype and it's more tangible than the previous hype cycles, you know, crypto 111 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,760 and all those. 112 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:09,840 Because I think strip away everything, strip away all the hype and all the talk about it, 113 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,640 but it's more tangible. 114 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:19,040 It's definitely a productivity boost for teams across companies, for individuals. 115 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,560 And it's just a talking partner to a lot of people. 116 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:32,040 So I think there's more, it's more, the adoption is more massive for AI. 117 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Yeah I mean, you know, when you look at crypto and I'm not a crypto expert, I don't claim 118 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,520 to be one, but I think with crypto there's a lot of speculation on crypto and there's 119 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,360 like, okay, what will it be used for? 120 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,840 And then AI comes along, it's like, what is it being used for? 121 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,960 And like, I can, there are immediate effects. 122 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,400 It's an accelerator. 123 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:59,520 There's a buy as you go company, Klarna, not buy as you go, but payment credits, like, 124 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,600 you know, buy now, pay later. 125 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,680 They laid off like 700 people and in their most recent quarterly earnings, they talked 126 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:14,040 about how AI has replaced and then some to 700 people that they laid off. 127 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,560 There's a big hiring boom around 2021 when there was a lot of money infused in the government, 128 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:23,720 from the government into the private sector, that a lot of those people are getting laid 129 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,120 off in favor of AI and that's a big news story. 130 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,680 There's far more examples of that across America. 131 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:39,520 And I think this is a great, like, we thought that the internet democratized business opportunities 132 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:45,160 and it certainly does, but like we're getting to that world that we've seen in movies, like 133 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:50,280 the futuristic world where like people, AI can like have full on, I literally just had 134 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,360 a full on conversation with AI yesterday. 135 00:09:52,360 --> 00:10:02,240 I'm like, mind blown because the, the, the, I like to pay attention to how, how my brain 136 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:09,980 works in different communications experiences, like typing things up in chat GPT. 137 00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:11,620 It's hard for me to be conversational. 138 00:10:11,620 --> 00:10:17,160 It's far easier to be conversational to a voice. 139 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,280 It's hard to create something out of nothing. 140 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,280 It's much easier to create something when you have something to something else to respond 141 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,520 back to, which is such a massive game changer for individuals. 142 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:34,160 Like I can just talk to myself and the GPT and get content creation ideas. 143 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,740 Now it may not be perfect. 144 00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:41,600 Like I know that there's people out there that create interesting content and have really 145 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,080 you know, there's this one woman on a, on Tik TOK. 146 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,160 Her name is, I don't know what her name is, but she, her Tik TOK is Jazz Media. 147 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,720 I think it's J A Z media and she's great. 148 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:53,720 She's really smart. 149 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,480 She talks about a lot of cool ways to like create content that is relevant for people. 150 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,520 You'll never those types of people who have dialed in on the intricacies of something 151 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,440 so well, those people will never be replaced by AI, but to get the base, I don't think 152 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,640 maybe you never know, but to get the basics, you don't need to pay a basic social media 153 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,640 manager. 154 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,040 You can just talk to chat GPT, but there's going to be such a, um, an environment of, 155 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,960 well, I want to do it the old school way and I don't like, and I don't understand how chat 156 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,680 works and that will be a place where the old school providers who are not particularly 157 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,040 nuanced but you know, are just kind of like doing the same old stuff. 158 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,280 They will still have a marketplace, but that marketplace will start to shrink as people 159 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,600 get far more familiar with AI. 160 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,760 I can go on about this, but yeah. 161 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:41,760 No, absolutely. 162 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:42,760 Totally agree with that. 163 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:50,080 I mean, there would be different set of skills and different set of jobs that come up because 164 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:57,680 of this boom, but I don't think we know what yet. 165 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:03,040 So I think we, we, we all need to adapt to different set of skills to find more jobs, 166 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:09,720 but definitely a boon for entrepreneurs and, um, enterprising people. 167 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Like, like you said, if, if you're, um, if you're proactive, this is, this is the time 168 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,640 to be. 169 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:18,640 Yeah, absolutely. 170 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,840 Like we're, you know, I was just having a conversation. 171 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,160 We hired a marketing specialist and I was like, okay, now it's time for you to make 172 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,920 ads and he's like, he, he's already a creative person, right? 173 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,600 So I hired him with the intent, like, he, he understands copywriting principles. 174 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:35,600 Uh, he's creative. 175 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,320 I was like, dude, use AI all day and make stellar ads. 176 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,200 I can still give him a framework for what to look for. 177 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,600 The biggest thing when you create ads and you're going to the market is understanding 178 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,200 the customer's pain point and communicating to that pain point. 179 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,500 So if you have, if you understand that very simple concept that for every business you 180 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:04,140 are solving a pain point that results in more time or more money or more entertainment or 181 00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:06,720 some level of utility. 182 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,320 If you understand the trigger, the catalyst, the transformative value, then you can tell 183 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:20,520 AI list for me the top 20 problems my customer has. 184 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Tell me how I solve them, right? 185 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,160 Give them, you know, we're an advertising firm. 186 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,320 We do all these things, et cetera. 187 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Tell me the problems my customer faces and then write me ads that are compelling, interesting, 188 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,720 sad, funny, positive, negative, long form, short form. 189 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,640 Write me copy that is going to appeal to those people. 190 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:47,160 And then you use Meta's algorithm and Meta's AI to test it using science, control and variable 191 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,160 testing. 192 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,160 You, you're doing everything you need to do. 193 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,180 And it's not complete. 194 00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:56,240 You can't completely replace the process with AI because you still have to know how to run 195 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,960 ads. 196 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:08,880 But you don't, it's like, it's far, how should I put this? 197 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,400 It's far easier to train inexperienced people to do that. 198 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,320 And it, it, it creates an advantage. 199 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,920 Like when you have a framework, when you have a standard operating procedure, like we, the, 200 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,560 the, and I'm almost like talking against my book here. 201 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:27,880 Cause it's kind of interesting, right? 202 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,760 Cause we go to market as we hire experts. 203 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,840 Seven years to 20 years are the people we hire. 204 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,680 Every time we hire people out of college, it never works. 205 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:40,680 It just never works. 206 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,020 They don't have the experience. 207 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:48,280 And our organization is not set up to nurture those people. 208 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,120 Universal McCann is set up to nurture those people, which is how I got started in the 209 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,120 business. 210 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,560 And, you know, I'm very grateful for them and big agencies like publicists and star 211 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,680 com and WPP on all the group apps. 212 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:07,000 All those agencies are really good at taking talented young individuals or just talented 213 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,760 inexperienced individuals and turning them into experts at one little thing. 214 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,300 They're a cog in the system. 215 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:21,000 But for our business, we hire very expensive, very senior people. 216 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:28,480 But with AI, if you have a system and a process, if you hire just people who understand how 217 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:35,720 to follow a process, you don't have to be particularly experienced and specifically 218 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,660 advertising. 219 00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:44,720 Because the gaps that you have can be solved by chat GPT or clot. 220 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,520 And that fundamentally changes the equation for entrepreneurs. 221 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:53,640 There are a lot of people, very smart people who are not experts in advertising, but they 222 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,760 are also good people who know how to get things done. 223 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,640 And that's also a big opportunity, dramatically lowering the cost of labor fundamentally and 224 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,200 still being able to output really high quality work. 225 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Now, on the other side, our clients, so our clients are usually creative, creative firms. 226 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,320 So we go to market as white label or outsource media buying an agency does creative work, 227 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,920 which is one, you know, the arts, the copy, the filming commercial, all that stuff. 228 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,280 And we go to market doing ad buying, like the data, the numbers, all that stuff, very 229 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:25,280 different type of work. 230 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,000 So we go to market together and we are the outsource partner that companies come to to 231 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,860 run ads. 232 00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:35,060 Our clients would say, you're crazy. 233 00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:42,200 There's absolutely no way there's absolutely no way that AI can possibly possibly replace 234 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:47,960 the brilliance of high end, high value creative people who don't get out of bed for anything 235 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,720 under 25 grand. 236 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,240 And it goes up from there into the millions. 237 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,240 Right? 238 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,960 Those people will say you're crazy. 239 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,440 And I believe that it's two ends of the same spectrum. 240 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,680 For a business like ours, where we focus on data and some of our clients need ads, or 241 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:13,040 if we need our own ads in house, I think we're smart enough to deliver 10 to $25,000 worth 242 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:20,600 of ad creative effectively, very inexpensively using AI without having to pay really smart 243 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:29,720 people massive salaries because all they do is art or copywriting or whatever the case 244 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,560 is. 245 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:38,760 And I like you said it was like, it's an accelerator, like AI is an accelerator. 246 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,200 That's how I characterize it for our business. 247 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,560 Yeah, absolutely. 248 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:44,560 That's so true. 249 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:58,120 Yeah, I mean, I think as I'm thinking about it, it's we all it's forcing us all to get 250 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,960 better at our jobs. 251 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:08,200 So you have to improve your workflows, decrease efficiency, improve efficiencies in your workflows 252 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:14,160 and get to the next level or kind of be left behind in a lot of ways. 253 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:24,720 So yeah, I mean, even for me as I run data science team and a company called Legal Shield. 254 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,720 So Legal Shield. 255 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Yeah. 256 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,040 Yeah, I've heard of them. 257 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,040 Awesome. 258 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,240 So yeah, we were like a subscription based legal services company. 259 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:42,500 So in our company, we opened up GitHub Copilot for all of our engineers. 260 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:48,880 So our CTO called said a very smart intern. 261 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,240 So you can ask it to write code and you know, it'll write it, it'll get you to 90% of the 262 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,240 code. 263 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,240 Really? 264 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,240 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 265 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000 And you just tweak it and then do it. 266 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:06,000 So see, he basically says it's like an intern, you can get the work done, but you have to 267 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,120 audit a little bit and then, you know, make sure that the work is right and then ship 268 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,120 it. 269 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:17,640 So we are seeing a lot of improved efficiency across our teams. 270 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:24,840 So it's definitely I did when I did go to a conference where people from all types of 271 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:32,440 industries, you know, media, you know, advertising, and also older, you know, traditional industries, 272 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,660 finance, banking were there. 273 00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:46,080 So one of the interesting things was in the media space, in the advertising space, the 274 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,220 consensus was we don't have a choice. 275 00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:51,480 We have to get on board. 276 00:19:51,480 --> 00:20:00,600 And the traditional, you know, not in legacy, but traditional companies of finance and banking 277 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,520 and things like that, they will, they're a little more hesitant. 278 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:12,080 This is right from a compliance standpoint, from a customer-facing standpoint, this is 279 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,840 not ready because we have so many nuances, legal complications that we could get into 280 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,520 if we have, if we just be AI, be the face of our company. 281 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:29,440 So it's interesting to see how different businesses and industries adopt to AI. 282 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:36,440 So could I use, if I don't know coding? 283 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,640 When I say I don't know coding, I'm not being modest. 284 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,680 I literally do not know anything about coding. 285 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,480 The minute CSS happens, like I have to go to my person on Fiverr, on Upwork, who I've 286 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:53,960 worked with for five years and be like, I don't know, make this not be crazy looking. 287 00:20:53,960 --> 00:21:02,160 Could I, is it possible for me to use GitHub Copilot or something like that to like build 288 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,560 a website or I don't know, like, is that possible? 289 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,560 It is possible. 290 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,620 We just need to understand the fundamentals of it. 291 00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:16,600 You know, you need to be able to ask the right questions to get to what you want. 292 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:28,680 So I have to think like a coder, programmer in order to debug what the output is from 293 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,280 say chat GPT or GitHub Copilot. 294 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:41,560 So I can definitely, I wrote a, I actually built a model for, to predict retention of 295 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,640 our customers recently. 296 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:50,520 And I took it up as a challenge and I did not write a single piece of, single line of 297 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,520 code. 298 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:58,720 I just talked to the chat bot and made it right and made it correct all the problems 299 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,560 and made it give me in a format that I wanted. 300 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,680 So it is possible. 301 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:10,640 You just, you just kind of nudge it in the direction that you want it to go. 302 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,840 But yeah, to answer your question, once you have a, probably have a fundamental foundation 303 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:25,440 of how coding works, it's definitely possible to build a website and by just chatting to 304 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,600 chat GPT or cloud. 305 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:30,600 That's dope. 306 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:31,600 Yeah. 307 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,880 It's, it's, it's really cool. 308 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,880 There was a, there was a time when I was like, I want to learn Python. 309 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:37,880 Yes. 310 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,640 It's like me learning Python is equally as bad of an idea as me trying to be a food influencer, 311 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,280 which I always try to do. 312 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,680 I have a food account called dude, let's eat. 313 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,520 When I started my business, I was like, I started four different businesses and one 314 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,360 of them, cause I'd worked a little bit for an influencer marketing company. 315 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:55,720 I was like, I could be an influencer. 316 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:01,840 So I was like big on vine, not big on vine, just like, you know, I would impress my mother 317 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,040 and my girlfriend and be like, I got a million views on this one six second vine video, you 318 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,560 know, like it happened a few times. 319 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:15,440 And so like, I tried to learn Python over a weekend and it, it, I didn't, I didn't get 320 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,440 anywhere. 321 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,440 I don't know. 322 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,440 I don't know. 323 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:19,440 Like it, it was weird. 324 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,440 It didn't make sense. 325 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,520 I mean, probably we can, you can start with teach me Python like a five year old, you 326 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,720 know, that's a, it'll build you a program to learn Python. 327 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,800 But yeah, I mean, again, there's so many things that we can do. 328 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,800 It's super cool. 329 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:43,600 So if I type in teach me Python, like a five year old, that's, is that like a website? 330 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:49,760 No, just put that in Google and yeah, Ted, yeah. 331 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,040 There's a website called code monkey Python for kids. 332 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,840 That's about where I should start. 333 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,320 There you go. 334 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,040 No, it's, it's just the building blocks, right? 335 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,520 So yeah, it's the smooth brain among us. 336 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:17,720 We, I think one of the things that these gen AI chatbots do is take away the, we don't 337 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:26,040 need to remember the syntax and the language of the code anymore for the, for the most 338 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:34,760 part because yeah, you just have to know the logic and where you want to go, have a vision 339 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,760 for it. 340 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,720 And it'll, it'll help you get there because if I'm really good at SQL, I don't need to 341 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:49,080 learn Python because I can talk to it and get to a Python solution for my SQL logic. 342 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,520 Cool. 343 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Yeah, it's fascinating. 344 00:24:53,920 --> 00:25:04,120 Let's, let's get back to real media and you're, you're a thought leader in the media buying 345 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:05,120 space. 346 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:13,400 A few months ago you wrote, wrote about growing revenue with a media buying partner. 347 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,160 I don't know if you're, yeah. 348 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:22,600 Can you please tell us what a media buying partner is and the value you're bringing to 349 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,040 the businesses? 350 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,840 So when you think about creative, right? 351 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,960 When you think about Mad Men, if you've seen Mad Men, Mad Men is really kind of like two 352 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,920 types of work that are interspersed. 353 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,720 There was a strategy like the one show about the cigarettes where they're like, why are 354 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,720 you smoking this? 355 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,000 It was like, I think that I just started watching Mad Men again. 356 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,720 I think that was like the pilot episode. 357 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,280 It's like, why are you smoking and the competitive, you know, the competitive landscape had changed 358 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,560 and you can't really tell you that it's healthy. 359 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,920 You can't say that car is healthier or all the, whatever was going on at the time. 360 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:05,000 You just got to come up with some crazy BS like our, our, our smokes make you feel fantastic, 361 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,280 you know, and just say it in a more interesting way. 362 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,280 And that's your brand. 363 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,280 It's like gas. 364 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,760 It's like gas stations today. 365 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,160 I worked on Conoco Phillips for a few years. 366 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,360 They were the fortune for company at the time. 367 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:21,940 And so Conoco Phil Conoco brand Phillips 66 and 76 gas stations. 368 00:26:21,940 --> 00:26:24,680 Gas is to most people. 369 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,760 So first of all, it's inelastic and economically you have to get it. 370 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,560 Like if you don't get gas, you can't get to work your whole life falls apart. 371 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,620 If you don't get gas, I'm sure there are differences in the detergent that is being used and how 372 00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:39,040 clean it is and all this stuff for your car. 373 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,080 But like 99% of people making up that's a statistic. 374 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,960 99% of people couldn't care less. 375 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,000 They're like, is it going to hurt my car? 376 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,000 No. 377 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,100 So I'm not going to go ultra cheap, but any brand I'm going to, I'm just going to focus 378 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:55,800 on rice. 379 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,280 Meanwhile you have mobile gasoline that at one point had the cars that had eyes on it. 380 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,480 76 had the brand. 381 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,480 We're on the driver's side. 382 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,720 You know, as a take on the driver's side, like little icon, we're on the driver's side. 383 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,400 So everything was like, we're going to give you Dodger's tickets because we're on the 384 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,900 driver's side, you know, all this stuff. 385 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:15,600 So it's a brand. 386 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,680 The brand is completely disconnected. 387 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,000 It's like there's a tiny thread between the brand and the product because no one cares 388 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,560 about how gasoline is made. 389 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,120 They just care that your car keeps going. 390 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,840 That's creativity. 391 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,440 That's Nike slogan, just do it. 392 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,160 Something that wraps your brain around the product. 393 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,160 That's the creative part. 394 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,880 Then you have people who make commercials and you know, they're really good at visually, 395 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,440 you know, telling really cool stories in 15 or 30 seconds that get you to pay attention 396 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,400 to the product or services. 397 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,880 So that's all the creativity part of advertising. 398 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,580 And what you saw in Mad Men was a strategy, like what's the transformative value? 399 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:58,600 And then there were the people in the art department who actually made the ads for television 400 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,560 or print or whatever the case is. 401 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,020 What happened later was media buying. 402 00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:10,820 One of the guys in the show, one of the characters started the media buying department. 403 00:28:10,820 --> 00:28:16,080 So media buying is just the practice of like literally spending millions of dollars or 404 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,400 whatever your budget is to like buy the space so you can share your art. 405 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,320 15 and 30 seconds. 406 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:30,880 So like when you were in the days of the Mad Men show, like you had ABC, CBS and NBC. 407 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,720 And it's like, you knew that most people who you wanted to reach were in those shows, in 408 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,500 those networks. 409 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:44,160 And you could in a very general macro sense, determine the types of people you are reaching 410 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,480 based on the time of day. 411 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,880 So in today's world, if you're thinking about radio, morning commute is going to be very 412 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:52,880 popular. 413 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,880 Why? 414 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,540 Because there's a lot of people in cars on their morning compute. 415 00:28:57,540 --> 00:29:00,960 Or prime time programming on NBC. 416 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,320 Back in the 90s, people would spend their hour and a half in front of television watching 417 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,220 ABC or NBC. 418 00:29:08,220 --> 00:29:11,520 So media buying is literally just spending money, putting money down all day with the 419 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,760 goal of getting in front of the right people that you hope they buy stuff. 420 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,840 It's none of the art stuff. 421 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,440 It's none of the creativity. 422 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120 It's all math and data. 423 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:28,380 And what we do, the media buying component is just because you've created the art doesn't 424 00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:31,040 mean people will see it. 425 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,400 Our job is to get the right people to see it at the right moment in time so that they 426 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,540 buy stuff from you. 427 00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:44,480 Now what that looks like in real life is understanding where your ads should be. 428 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,940 Should you be on meta? 429 00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:50,720 Should you be on Google or TikTok or LinkedIn or buying connected television on Hulu and 430 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,540 Paramount Plus? 431 00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:55,100 And what's the value? 432 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:59,260 We help determine the value of each of those channels. 433 00:29:59,260 --> 00:30:05,680 And the analogy for me is each of those channels and each of those targeting parameters, each 434 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,960 of the decisions we make, those are elements of the orchestra. 435 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,840 A violinist on their own can make beautiful music, but like 37 violinists and a guy on 436 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,640 the gong and trumpet and all that stuff, they make a symphony. 437 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,200 And the symphony is the output of your sales. 438 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,460 It's why your business starts to grow. 439 00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:34,520 It's the fact that when you buy ads on Hulu, you're not going to see a lot of conversion 440 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,520 activity. 441 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,320 You'll be like, all right, I saw an ad on Hulu and someone bought from my website. 442 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,920 It might happen a little bit, but by itself, it doesn't look that good. 443 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:50,260 But what ends up happening is when you buy ads on Hulu, your Google looks a lot better 444 00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:54,540 because people are searching for you and then your ad appears on the search. 445 00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:57,000 People click, then they buy. 446 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:03,860 Now an inexperienced person would say, let's stop Hulu and let's put more money into Google. 447 00:31:03,860 --> 00:31:11,880 But what's actually happening is that the demand that has been generated from Hulu powers 448 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,720 people searching and people clicking on your ads. 449 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,580 And that's how you generate more sales. 450 00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:22,360 So they work together as an orchestra creating a symphony. 451 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,360 You're not competing. 452 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,800 Hulu is not competing with Google. 453 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,580 Facebook or Meta is not competing with Google. 454 00:31:30,580 --> 00:31:37,280 So the art of media buying is really understanding the foundational components of what works 455 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,400 and what doesn't. 456 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,560 It's understanding the fundamentals. 457 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:46,520 So when I talk on TikTok about ad buying or if I write an article about ad buying, fundamentally, 458 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,600 all we're doing is talking about the fundamentals. 459 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,680 And it's so darn boring. 460 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,040 The fundamentals are so damn boring. 461 00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:02,800 For example, there's this glitch on Twitter where you can target a certain set of settings 462 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,280 and you'll get millions of ad impressions for a dollar a day. 463 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,640 But you can't build a business on a happenstance. 464 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,200 Because eventually that's a problem. 465 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,680 First of all, the targeting parameters don't work for most businesses that are really paying 466 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:19,680 attention. 467 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:25,600 Secondly, it's a glitch and eventually Twitter or X is going to fix it. 468 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,560 We're not here to be like, all right, here's some random things that happened that we discovered 469 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,040 that's going to work for two and a half months. 470 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,760 I'm here to build you a business that will be sustainable, predictable, repeatable, and 471 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,240 scalable business growth for the next five years. 472 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,300 And the only way to do that is with the fundamentals. 473 00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:54,160 So we're doing creative testing on meta, we're doing broad targeting, we have ways to understand 474 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:00,360 depending on the product or service, where you should be running your ads, even in Google. 475 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,880 For example, Google is a lot of things. 476 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:08,960 Google is YouTube, Google is ads in Gmail through Performance Max, Google is the standard 477 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,240 search that you have, Google is banners. 478 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,680 There's all these different ways to use these tools and what we're really good at is using 479 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:22,480 these tools to accelerate your message in a way that results in money coming back to 480 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:23,480 the business. 481 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,480 Absolutely. 482 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:31,160 Yeah, you made some really interesting points there. 483 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,680 A lot of people look at a lot of executives. 484 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:49,160 It's hard to wrap their heads around omnichannel strategies to say, hey, it's really not too 485 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:59,520 tangible the awareness and the CTV ads and the PR programs. 486 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,680 You've got that and you've got paid media is more tangible. 487 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,200 Hey, you can see those clicks, you can see those ads. 488 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:15,240 But I think understanding the fundamentals, like you said, of the funnel. 489 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:17,080 What is tangible? 490 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,800 What is tangible is when you turn off your Hulu ads and your Google search, your cost 491 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,960 per click on Google starts to go through the roof and your cost per lead or your customer 492 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,160 acquisition costs starts to jump. 493 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,600 We've been there. 494 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,640 That's common knowledge inside the advertising business. 495 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,920 It's not common knowledge for businesses. 496 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,880 It's common knowledge for agency people who have seen the data. 497 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:48,420 When we were working on Mercury Auto Insurance in 2010, 11, 12, et cetera, the common thing 498 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:52,640 we would say is rising tides lift all boats. 499 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,840 You run more television advertising, your Google search looks better. 500 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,880 Then there's people who are like, well, we should run television. 501 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:01,880 Shouldn't we? 502 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,360 Isn't that the best place to be? 503 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,840 I don't know, maybe if your audience is like 50, 60 plus and they're watching news, but 504 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,560 look at the television, look at the ads on those news and life sports ads, especially 505 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,560 news. 506 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:21,760 It's erectile dysfunction, it's insurance, and it's stuff that only people of that demographic 507 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,120 are going to be interested in. 508 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:29,440 If you're selling a product that is not for that audience, chances are you probably shouldn't 509 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,440 be buying television. 510 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,960 You see that in the data, the sales data or the revenue data for television is declining. 511 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,960 It's a $60 billion business this year. 512 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,160 It was $70, $80 billion a few years ago. 513 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,720 Yeah, absolutely. 514 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:50,720 For any traditional business or even people that are starting out, I think paid media 515 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:54,280 is the first thing that everybody wants to try. 516 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,560 But you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. 517 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:04,080 You want to diversify your channels to expand out to say a direct mail program, a affiliate 518 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:11,760 program and then build out your awareness programs. 519 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,840 I've learned this over the years, like you said, that intuitively it's, hey, let's just 520 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,840 spend money to get sales. 521 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:29,440 But you have to have other marketing channels to all work in a symphony-like setting, like 522 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:30,840 you said. 523 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,400 You need product market fit. 524 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,200 That's a big part of the equation there. 525 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,120 A lot of startups will say, okay, we're ready to advertise. 526 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,400 And then we'll say, okay, so how have you gotten business so far? 527 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,760 And the answer, so let me turn this off. 528 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,440 The answer is, I don't know. 529 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,120 We've just gotten business. 530 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:54,080 We can't tell you that we got it from search or social or whatever. 531 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,560 And the insight there for me is you're probably not ready to advertise unless you're ready 532 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,560 to advertise, not with the goal of generating leads and sales, but with the goal of achieving 533 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,400 product market fit. 534 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,000 You can run ads and understand product market fit. 535 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,000 Absolutely. 536 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,160 We can get you there in about three months, maybe six if it's really tough and you have 537 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,400 a weird product. 538 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,920 But we can get you there. 539 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:25,840 But setting expectations is such a critical part of the equation. 540 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,960 When you set expectations, and that's how client relationships start, and if they ever 541 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,840 go bad, it's because when you look back at it, the expectations were fundamentally wrong 542 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,720 from the very first conversation. 543 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:41,480 So we're very explicit about what we are able to accomplish and not accomplish and where 544 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,100 our responsibility starts and stops and where your responsibility starts and stops. 545 00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:52,800 And fundamentally, should you advertise right now is a question of it depends if you've 546 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,760 achieved product market fit. 547 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,720 And the way you know you've achieved product market fit is you can sell stuff and people, 548 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,080 you go into the market, you talk about yourself, you're priced correctly and people buy stuff 549 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,080 from you. 550 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,920 That's how you know if you've achieved product market fit. 551 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,960 And then fundamentally, at each channel you go into, you need to sort of curate your message 552 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,080 for the nuances of that channel. 553 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,240 I achieved product market fit over the course of two years by having probably hundreds of 554 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:26,920 conversations, conferences, networking events, meetups, whatever the case is, I needed to 555 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:33,920 learn what to say and how to say it such that people's eyes didn't gloss over because using 556 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,760 jargon and no one cares about the jargon, no one cares about how smart I am. 557 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,960 What people care about is can I get them more money? 558 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,080 So that's me as an entrepreneur looking at product market fit. 559 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,920 And I 100% agree that you need the email marketing, you need the text messaging, you need the 560 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:58,080 social content posting because they all, going back to the symphony and orchestra, they make 561 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,040 up the components of the orchestra. 562 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,880 Like for example, one of the easy things that can happen is you can post on social media 563 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:13,040 and the top five videos that you've ever created are going to be the ones that might be good 564 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,520 to go in as ads. 565 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,920 You spend money on those. 566 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:29,000 If those videos are the ones that help push your business forward, you want to find influencers. 567 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,000 And it's possible. 568 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,200 Like podcasters, by the way, are good influencers in the business space. 569 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:36,360 I'll give you an example. 570 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:42,720 I just found, so a sales call came in the other day and I was like, okay, so how'd you 571 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:43,720 find us? 572 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:49,080 And this person said they listened to a podcast where I was a guest. 573 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,120 They're like, I got to talk to this guy. 574 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,400 What I learned, what I gleaned from that, it's a very small sample size and it's anecdotal. 575 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,680 So a sample size of one, so grain of salt there. 576 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:10,680 But I might pay that podcaster, like, let's either do more podcasts together. 577 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,440 I'm going to pay you to amplify my message. 578 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,360 If she has the audience and I know how to speak to the audience in a really good way, 579 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,960 that's going to be relevant for me. 580 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,680 And that's how you get influencers to work with you in a way that's like, podcasting 581 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,580 is a great way to test, to figure out where the audience is. 582 00:40:31,580 --> 00:40:35,440 And when you figure that out, you're looking for predictable, repeatable, and scalable. 583 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,280 I'll gladly spend money all day when I know it gives me more money on the backend. 584 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,280 That's awesome. 585 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,280 Yeah. 586 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:51,760 I mean, there's so many new avenues of building businesses or expanding businesses. 587 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:57,920 And I really liked what you said, media buying is really data and math. 588 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:07,640 So what are the changes that you did talk about this, but what are the changes that 589 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:14,920 you're seeing in the media buying space and how can small businesses think about it? 590 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:15,920 100%. 591 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,480 First of all, barrier to entry to work with us is $1,500 a month. 592 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,400 And it could actually even go lower. 593 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,480 Our fee on that is $500. 594 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,960 Like if you have a thousand dollars a month to spend in marketing and advertising, and 595 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,240 you want to add $500 for the expertise we have, we can go to market. 596 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,960 So don't be scared that you need to have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to run 597 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:36,960 ads. 598 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,360 That's the first thing. 599 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,080 The second thing is stop boosting posts on Facebook or don't use the promote button on 600 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,080 TikTok. 601 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,080 Don't do any of that stuff. 602 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,360 That's a money grab. 603 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:52,080 There's 10 million advertisers on Meta and according to Neil Patel, 64% of them fail. 604 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:58,360 And a big part of that is because they're pressing the easy button by boosting a post. 605 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,040 And I'll expand into the intricacies of that. 606 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,860 Number one, you don't need likes, comments, and shares. 607 00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:06,880 You can't pay the bills with likes, comments, and shares. 608 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,520 You have to pay the bills with money. 609 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,320 And so when you run ads and boosting a post is running ads. 610 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,880 But you're not, and it's funny even the nomenclature, like people don't realize that boosting a 611 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,880 post is ads. 612 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:21,880 No, we're not running ads. 613 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,160 We're just boosting a post. 614 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:32,360 Like literally by definition, if you are spending money to reach an audience, it's advertising. 615 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,840 So number one, you are running ads. 616 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:39,800 And if you're spending five, six, $700 a month on boosting posts, bad. 617 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:46,400 If your rationale for boosting posts is, well, we created it, why don't have people see it? 618 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:47,880 Wrong. 619 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,160 Like it just don't do it. 620 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,160 Just stop it. 621 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,640 Never do that again. 622 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,520 Like it's not even an exaggeration. 623 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,140 Never do that again. 624 00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:58,040 Because there's no strategy there. 625 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,960 And the strategy, and you know, we'll talk about what's different. 626 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,820 Let's actually go into what's different now. 627 00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:07,000 But let's also talk about strategy. 628 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,520 Strategy is very important. 629 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,440 And strategy is a very nebulous concept. 630 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:17,320 It literally took me probably the first decade of my career to really understand what a strategy 631 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,320 is. 632 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:24,880 And really, I only felt comfortable talking about strategy in the last five-ish years. 633 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,000 It's a very weird term. 634 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,840 Strategy is your navigation plan. 635 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,360 If you're flying from Los Angeles, no, if you are in Los Angeles and you want to get 636 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:44,040 to Manhattan, your KPI, your key performance indicator is I'm going to get to Manhattan. 637 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,240 Your strategy is how you're going to get to Manhattan. 638 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,640 Well, I could fly, I could take the plane, I could drive. 639 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,560 Okay, what are my goals here? 640 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,320 I want to do this fast, so I'm going to fly. 641 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,120 Am I going to spend a lot of money for a first-class seat and leg room or I'm going to spend little 642 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,820 money and be crunched in economy? 643 00:44:04,820 --> 00:44:06,680 What time of day am I going to go? 644 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,720 By the way, which airport am I going to? 645 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:09,720 New York or JFK? 646 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,080 When I get to JFK, how am I going to get to the city? 647 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,080 Am I going to take the LIRR? 648 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,080 Am I going to take a taxi? 649 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,880 Am I going to take an Uber? 650 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:18,880 That's your strategy. 651 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,240 What I just described is a strategy, but you call it navigation. 652 00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:25,200 You call it the travel plans. 653 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,360 But for every business owner, that's what a strategy is. 654 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,840 When you don't have a strategy, you hit the boost post button for likes, comments, and 655 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,840 shares and views. 656 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,760 It doesn't pay the bills. 657 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,080 That's why you're wasting money. 658 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,280 That's why Facebook is an over a trillion dollar company because you have millions of businesses 659 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,140 in the US spending money on boosting posts. 660 00:44:49,140 --> 00:44:53,600 What you should do instead is go in the backend of business manager, do broad targeting and 661 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,440 the creative testing framework. 662 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,880 And I can give you a link or if you guys email me Facebook ads, just literally the subject 663 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,560 line robert at brilliantmedia.co, type in Facebook ads. 664 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,360 I'll give you a link to a 13 minute video of how to do this creative testing that will 665 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,200 revolutionize your business. 666 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:17,520 Let's talk about what's changed in the marketplace. 667 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,760 It's like using an iPhone from 2017. 668 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:21,760 Does it work? 669 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:22,760 Yes. 670 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,320 Is it the newest and best technology? 671 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,840 No. 672 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:32,960 That's what it is when you use keyword and interest targeting inside Meta. 673 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,440 The tech is still there. 674 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,760 It's just not the best tech. 675 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,240 It's not how Meta wants you to use Meta. 676 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:46,440 What Meta wants you to use is broad targeting, age, gender, and location. 677 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,960 Broad targeting, age, gender, and location. 678 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:56,840 For location, if you're a restaurant and you know that people are only going to show up 679 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,480 within a five mile radius around your address. 680 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,360 They're not going to drive 10 miles for a burger or whatever food you have. 681 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,960 If you're in Manhattan, that's probably a five block radius. 682 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,560 If you're in Texas, it might be 10 mile radius. 683 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,840 You got to know, generally speaking, how far people will travel. 684 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,200 There's easy ways to figure that out. 685 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,240 You can ask people, you can pull data from a data company, it costs you like a thousand 686 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,000 dollars to get that data. 687 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:31,480 They track when people, when their mobile device, where their mobile device started, 688 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:36,140 when it got to your fast food location, and then where it went after that. 689 00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:38,760 When you look at thousands of devices, you'll get a sense. 690 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,440 Like 50% of people traveled maximum five miles. 691 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,000 100% of people traveled maximum 10 miles. 692 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,480 I'm thinking about Texas now. 693 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:56,160 Anyway, so your geographic broad targeting is the place in the broadest area that people 694 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,160 will work with you, transact with you. 695 00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:59,440 So at the restaurant, five miles. 696 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,320 For us business to business, it's 10 miles. 697 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,760 I'm sorry, it's a no, it's around the United States. 698 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,160 That's what I meant to say. 699 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,920 So B2B around the United States. 700 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:10,920 Age and gender. 701 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,880 Age, I don't know, people usually are working with us. 702 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:19,500 You're like low end 25, high end 65, because 60, 65 is when people retire. 703 00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:22,480 And then gender, we work with men and women. 704 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:30,320 If you have a feminine product, you're going to select the broad audience as women, likely. 705 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:38,260 If you're an Etsy shop and you're doing crochet patterns, it's probably going to be women. 706 00:47:38,260 --> 00:47:40,040 And then you do the creative testing framework. 707 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:51,560 What this leads to, what the trend this is a part of is algorithmic advertising. 708 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:58,400 No longer are the days where you can, in many channels, on TikTok you have smart performance 709 00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,440 campaigns. 710 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:05,200 On Google you're uploading 15 different headlines and four descriptions and they're mixing and 711 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,400 matching the creative. 712 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,440 Now the targeting on Google is still very granular, like by keywords. 713 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,520 But look at Performance Max. 714 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,600 Performance Max, you just upload a bunch of ads and it goes to a bunch of different places, 715 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,800 including Gmail ads and YouTube and banners and Google search, et cetera. 716 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,820 What you're doing and what's happening on Meta 2 with the broad targeting is you are 717 00:48:27,820 --> 00:48:36,000 leveraging the power of the platform's algorithm for it to find your best customers. 718 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,000 Now programmatically, if you're using other platforms like the Trade Desk, if you're buying 719 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,440 ads on local news and sports, you do have the ability to get very granular and the granular 720 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,280 data still works there. 721 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,160 But on the large social media platforms, you're doing broad targeting. 722 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,160 There's a few reasons for that. 723 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:58,760 The data has to be a little bit opaque because platforms are getting torn about right and 724 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,480 left for their use of data and privacy and all that stuff. 725 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,760 You can pinpoint the moment when Mark Zuckerberg testified in front of Congress, I think that 726 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:15,560 was in 2017 or 2018 for the Cambridge Analytica scandal, when Axiom, as a data provider, pulled 727 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,240 like they said, no more third party data on Facebook. 728 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:21,120 It was going the programmatic route. 729 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:26,780 Like in the Trade Desk, for example, you have 220, probably more now, data partners and 730 00:49:26,780 --> 00:49:31,240 millions of existing segments where you can target people. 731 00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:33,760 Facebook or Meta was going that route. 732 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,360 They had third party providers and they took all those out because they didn't want to 733 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,440 deal with any of this stuff. 734 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:43,780 They became too powerful and a lot more scrutiny as a result of that, which is probably right. 735 00:49:43,780 --> 00:49:49,440 So if you're advertising in 2024, you're uploading a bunch of ads, ad creatives, you're going 736 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:55,140 general targeting broad, you're providing your pixel so the platforms can understand 737 00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:58,680 who your buyers are from a data perspective. 738 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:04,000 And you're telling the platform, find me new buyers and your job as a media buying team. 739 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,120 So why does the media buying team even need to be in the equation? 740 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,960 Can't everyone do this themselves? 741 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,600 The short answer is, yeah, you could do this yourself, but you have to know that broad 742 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,400 targeting is a thing. 743 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,600 You also then have to understand that the creative testing framework is going to be 744 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:22,600 important. 745 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,920 And then you're going to have to understand how to look at the data so to understand whether 746 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,080 or not it's working for you. 747 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,680 So this goes back to the AI conversation. 748 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,200 Can it all be done by one person? 749 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,200 Absolutely. 750 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,020 But there's a place and time and an opportunity for high level experts. 751 00:50:38,020 --> 00:50:40,740 And that's the service that we provide ultimately. 752 00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:45,280 It's business intelligence to accelerate growth. 753 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,920 So the trend is broad algorithmic targeting. 754 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:54,680 The other, the complementary trend there is focusing on creative. 755 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,320 Creative finds your customer, not the targeting. 756 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,080 Because remember, you're doing broad targeting, age, gender, and location. 757 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,560 So now in the case of the restaurant, let's say you sell burgers and fries and shakes, 758 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:11,320 now you've got to understand what creative is going to resonate with people. 759 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,720 Now you have a few options. 760 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:20,120 Usually the human eye has more nerves in it to understand faces, to recognize faces, than 761 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:27,240 it has the ability to understand stuff, buildings, hands, anything that's not a face. 762 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,640 It's less adept at. 763 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:34,280 So initially you want to test what works to generate sales for your restaurant. 764 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,480 Is it happy people eating your food? 765 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,120 Is it like a gorgeous photo of food? 766 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,120 Is it the shake? 767 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:42,120 Is it the burger? 768 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,180 Is it the fries? 769 00:51:43,180 --> 00:51:44,180 Is it families? 770 00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:45,920 Is it individuals? 771 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:46,920 Then you look at the text. 772 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:47,920 Is it happy text? 773 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:48,920 Is it negative text? 774 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,720 Is it, you know, whatever the case is. 775 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:58,320 So once you understand the system that you're working in, it's actually quite easy to do, 776 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,240 but a lot of people miss on two parts. 777 00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:06,160 They don't understand the system and they're using the technology from 2017 keywords and 778 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:11,280 interest targeting, or they don't understand that creative is going to be the thing, which 779 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,480 is also a systemic thing. 780 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,560 They don't understand that they need to do that. 781 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,480 So it's understanding the system or it's understanding the activation, how to do it well, how to 782 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,560 actually create ads that are compelling, how to structure ad campaigns that's going to 783 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:26,560 do well. 784 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:32,200 So I can tell you all how to do this, but then if you don't have the experience in it, 785 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,200 it's not going to work. 786 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,200 Now here's the other thing. 787 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:40,760 No one expects the average restaurant owner or the any B2B company to be good at marketing 788 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,880 and advertising. 789 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,680 Just like no one expects me to be a doctor, a lawyer, a mechanic or a plumber. 790 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,080 Your car, the car breaks down. 791 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,800 I have no idea what's happening and if you give me a hammer, I'll probably make it worse. 792 00:52:53,800 --> 00:53:01,680 So individuals, companies, organizations, entrepreneurs need to eat their own dog food, 793 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,240 which is you're expecting people, especially B2B companies, you're expecting people to 794 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:13,360 pay you for the service, the expertise that you have. 795 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,640 If you want to accelerate your business and not spend thousands of hours doing the wrong 796 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,760 thing and probably tens of thousands of dollars, just making it worse with your advertising 797 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:28,920 because you have no idea what you're doing, pay an expert to invest those $10,000 or tens 798 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:35,620 of thousands of dollars and save you thousands of hours to actually grow your business. 799 00:53:35,620 --> 00:53:37,000 So you asked me about trends. 800 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,680 The trend is pay an expert because yeah, you got to make it right and the algorithm is 801 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,640 going to be your friend. 802 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,640 Absolutely. 803 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:46,640 Yeah. 804 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:51,840 I mean, just business owners cannot be good at everything. 805 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:58,880 So just leveraging experts from different things will definitely help them scale. 806 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:07,320 And also there's a lot of nuances that the experts bring in that it might take too. 807 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,840 There's an opportunity cost to not bringing an expert. 808 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,400 Huge. 809 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:20,440 The biggest thing, the broad targeting creative testing is critical on Meta and it amplifies 810 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,440 that information outward to other platforms. 811 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,800 You take the learnings from Meta and those are the same ads that run on LinkedIn for 812 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:27,800 us. 813 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:34,080 And LinkedIn is a better platform for our business from a lead generation perspective. 814 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:39,920 And also the learnings we got from our creative came from Meta. 815 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,960 Very powerful going back to the symphony and orchestra analogy. 816 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:49,800 But the thing that most people can do effectively is they need to constantly create ads. 817 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,200 Unless you're selling something that is going to be gone in like two or three weeks, like 818 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,960 if you're selling tickets to, we do a lot with selling tickets to like Cardi B and Hugh 819 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:05,120 Jackman and big national names, like local names, plays and sort of like events that 820 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,280 take place at theaters. 821 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,800 Those are a little bit different because you've got like three weeks. 822 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,800 That's a good reason to use keywords and interest. 823 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,400 But I would still do the creative testing, but you just accelerate the process so it 824 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,620 happens in a few days rather than a few weeks. 825 00:55:24,620 --> 00:55:32,640 But the one thing any business owner can have is constantly create, develop ads, develop 826 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,600 creative executions, and then test them in the marketplace. 827 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:38,800 And there's no ego. 828 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,480 I don't care which ad works. 829 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,000 I care that we find the ad that works. 830 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,000 I don't care if it's an influencer. 831 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,120 I don't care if it's an ad that I created or like a post-it note that I took a photo 832 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,360 of and I put that up on an ad and I wrote something on the post-it note that tells a 833 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:57,360 story. 834 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,960 Like it can be very expensive or it can be the least expensive thing you've ever done. 835 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:09,280 They all have the ability to actually be the thing that resonates with customers. 836 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,520 And that goes back to that product market fit and it furthers this idea of iteration. 837 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:21,720 Like all we're doing is looking to be 1% better every day because we will be 37 times better 838 00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:23,960 at our craft within a year. 839 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,680 And then you multiply that again by the amount of years you're doing your business if you're 840 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,000 really doing it. 841 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:35,920 Like you'll be an overnight success, but it'll only take you 10 years and a lot of 1% improvement 842 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:36,920 days. 843 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:37,920 Absolutely. 844 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:38,920 Yeah. 845 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,440 I mean, you've been touching on several of my favorite topics, you know, test versus 846 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:49,720 control, A-B testing frameworks, you know, not having an ego and not married to your 847 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:52,600 creative ideas. 848 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:59,400 You know, I think those are super important and to have an iterative mindset, especially 849 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:11,160 in traditional companies where there is no A-B testing framework. 850 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:20,000 There's a lot of pressure on marketing or product people to get it right the first time. 851 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,440 There's a lot of impatience and lack of understanding that this is an iterative process. 852 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,920 We need to get to what works and we don't know. 853 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:30,120 I don't know what works. 854 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:31,240 Same with the data. 855 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:40,680 If I'm building a machine learning model, I don't know if it'll work in the first go. 856 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:45,880 I need to iterate on it to find the best fit. 857 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:55,840 So I think educating and setting the right expectations is really key to success. 858 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,960 And it's scary, right? 859 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:07,520 Because if you have the wrong management and the wrong people who are setting these expectations, 860 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,160 it can be the kiss of death to say, I don't know. 861 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:16,520 So that's how an organization starts to crumble. 862 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:24,280 The wrong leadership, the wrong expectations, a misalignment between what they think is 863 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,800 reality but what actually is reality. 864 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:33,280 And that's how you get, and I think that makes a big difference in the quality of the organization 865 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:40,640 that you have, which is the ability for people to feel safe, the ability for people to like 866 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:41,640 experiment. 867 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,320 Like we encourage our people, figure out whatever new tech like Claude, I haven't really used 868 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:51,080 Claude.ai, I just used it last night because I thought it was cool. 869 00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,000 We started instituting Grammarly because someone started using Grammarly. 870 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,600 I was like, yeah, that kind of makes sense. 871 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:56,920 We should probably be using it. 872 00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,160 They have AI integrated in it now. 873 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:12,800 So understanding, I think all of this gets summed up as being a tech tinkerer. 874 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,800 That's how you're successful. 875 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,120 Like you don't have to know what the outcome will be or you need to know what the outcome 876 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,360 will be to a degree. 877 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:26,880 You need to know what your guiding light is, what the KPI is for your business. 878 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,520 But I don't have to be right on how I get there. 879 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,400 The goal is we got to just get there. 880 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,720 And that is the scientific method, right? 881 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:42,520 So you have a hypothesis and you test it and let it run and see if it works or not. 882 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,400 You reject your null hypothesis or not. 883 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:52,280 But yeah, it's definitely a mindset and the framework that we need to bring people into 884 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:53,880 if we want to be successful. 885 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:59,480 I really like the term tech tinkerer. 886 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,480 Thank you. 887 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,440 I should copyright it. 888 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,440 Love it. 889 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,160 Or create a website. 890 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,220 It's got a ring to it. 891 01:00:11,220 --> 01:00:20,400 In my mind, being good with data is one of the key elements of a successful career or 892 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:25,880 building a successful business in paid media and marketing. 893 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,840 You've been in the corporate leadership world, consulting world. 894 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,360 You've been an entrepreneur. 895 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:37,760 What role has data played in your career? 896 01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,400 Yeah. 897 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:47,380 So there is big data, which is 100% not what I know. 898 01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:53,120 We use systems that leverage big data, but I'm not an analyst. 899 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,120 I don't understand. 900 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:55,840 I can't analyze that data. 901 01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:01,240 What I can analyze is advertising campaign data and I look for trends over time. 902 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:06,480 So a big part of my career has been I'm always looking for that feedback loop. 903 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,360 I'm always in the back of my head running tests. 904 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,400 It's just a matter of it's not on paper usually. 905 01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:18,400 I'll give you an example of sort of the quintessential element here. 906 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,320 It's when I was trying to figure out product market fit for our business. 907 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:27,200 I have conversations and I paid attention to when people's eyes glossed over. 908 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,720 They're like, cool, nice talking to you. 909 01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:32,880 That's what I paid attention to. 910 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,720 So it wasn't on paper. 911 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:39,280 I didn't take a list of all the words I was saying because it was real life in person 912 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:40,280 interactions. 913 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,080 I couldn't do that. 914 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:47,920 But I paid attention over time about where people were showing interest. 915 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,280 And I learned over time how to talk about our business in an inspiring and motivating 916 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:57,360 way that enrolled people and got them to spend money with us. 917 01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,280 That's the type of data I think is very interesting. 918 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,240 It's sort of like this qualitative data. 919 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:03,920 It's not really quantitative. 920 01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,280 Sure, people on my team, they're always looking at quantitative stuff. 921 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:08,880 They're looking at the campaign performance. 922 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,240 They're looking at return on ad spend. 923 01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,760 You increase your bid by 20%. 924 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:19,960 Does it increase the return on ad spend or does it actually decrease it because media 925 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:26,320 is more expensive and we're not getting the requisite number of sales or revenue to account 926 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,320 for that 20% uplift in costs. 927 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:30,320 There's that type of data. 928 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:36,720 But I think as a business owner, I'm paying attention to larger macro trends. 929 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,320 And I remember the data is very important. 930 01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,520 I remember the very first time I made a mistake on data and I was reprimanded. 931 01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:48,480 How awful, I was going to get fired very early on in my career. 932 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:55,000 So you start to have a respect for the data. 933 01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,320 I think there are people like in the advertising tech, in the ad tech space that are really 934 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:05,840 talented with setting up systems and looking at probably what you do. 935 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:10,320 Like I think a lot of what you do, looking at data and looking for trends over time, 936 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,320 I don't know how to do that. 937 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:17,000 For me, it's qualitative data that helps me make assessments that leads down the path 938 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,000 of hopefully the right outcome for it. 939 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:22,560 I love that. 940 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:23,560 I love that. 941 01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:24,560 Yeah. 942 01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:30,440 I mean, to your point, I'm always thinking about looking at the data, looking at numbers 943 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:38,040 and deriving trends over time, but really for product discovery and identifying the 944 01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:43,520 problems that customers are facing, you really need that qualitative data interactions and 945 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:49,960 surveys and things like that to get to the bottom of what are the problems that I need 946 01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,480 to be solving for my customers. 947 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:53,480 Yeah. 948 01:03:53,480 --> 01:04:02,240 I mean, over time, it becomes apparent that data is the root of everything. 949 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,200 Like data is the root of like knowledge. 950 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:12,080 And it would be hard to exist in this world and not make data-driven decisions. 951 01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,640 But the difference to me is that the difference from, I think, what people imagine data to 952 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:22,280 be is big complex data that requires PhDs to figure out. 953 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,260 But data is all around you. 954 01:04:24,260 --> 01:04:29,560 And data can help you understand the decisions you need to make in your life. 955 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,480 Good reasoning, critical reasoning skills are very important in that. 956 01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:36,520 We have a dashboard that we share with our clients. 957 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:37,960 And the dashboard is really great. 958 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:44,600 It shows like per line item performance, you can split the view so that, you know, or slice 959 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:45,600 it. 960 01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:46,600 It's data-rama. 961 01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:51,100 It's called slicing the page so that like, if we want to add from Meta, we can have the 962 01:04:51,100 --> 01:05:01,240 entire dashboard show just the data from Meta, creative delivery, performance by channel, 963 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:05,280 by like placement, performance by day, et cetera. 964 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,000 Or you can have it look at the entire contract, which is like, let's say Meta and Google and 965 01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,400 Hulu, you know, whatever the case is. 966 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:13,800 But that's good. 967 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:19,880 What's better is the contextualization of that data so that our clients understand why 968 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,920 things are happening on the campaign. 969 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:26,040 Like you see this thing here, this spike, that's when we tested this one thing, which 970 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,660 was either very good or very bad. 971 01:05:28,660 --> 01:05:32,520 Or see, this is the thing when we turned off Hulu, the cost per acquisition on Google started 972 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:33,520 to rise. 973 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,740 We should turn Hulu back on. 974 01:05:35,740 --> 01:05:37,240 The context is very important. 975 01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:45,440 So we, one of our, you know, a few of our core like values is context, communication 976 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:46,440 and consistency. 977 01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:53,240 Like we got to be around to talk, Slack, email, whatever it is. 978 01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,320 We've got to always be around, like you can't just be like, well, you don't hear from us 979 01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:57,920 for two weeks. 980 01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,360 And the context is very important. 981 01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:00,960 So you understand why things are happening. 982 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:02,960 Because what we know, we want you to know. 983 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:09,040 Like we want you to, we want our clients to understand how we're achieving the goals or 984 01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,420 the performance that we're achieving. 985 01:06:12,420 --> 01:06:15,760 The more they know, the more clients know about our work, the better off it is. 986 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:20,200 Like the more they realize how hard we're working for them. 987 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:24,040 And the dashboard is a good way of contextualizing the data that we see. 988 01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:25,040 Absolutely. 989 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:35,480 And yeah, I mean, we, we talked about this earlier, data and performance metrics in the 990 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:43,800 media world, media buying, paid media, CTV, any, any of these, it's not an exact science. 991 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:44,800 No. 992 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:54,960 And you cannot, without, well, like you said, without the context, it's really hard to, 993 01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:00,520 it's really easy to make bad decisions based off of context. 994 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:11,160 Like you said earlier, your brand awareness, you know, efforts with CTV and Hulu are improving 995 01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,420 your click-through rates on Google ads. 996 01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:20,520 But as soon as you take that away, I mean, an executive can look at it and say, Hey, 997 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,120 Hulu is not working. 998 01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,880 Go, go after, you know, spend more money in Google. 999 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:32,320 But really the context of everything that's working together, the holistic view is really 1000 01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:33,320 important. 1001 01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,240 And just the insight to understand how to read the data, right? 1002 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:40,440 That's, that's, that's a big part of the expertise, right? 1003 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:41,440 Absolutely. 1004 01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,320 Absolutely. 1005 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:54,320 What are some of the challenges in the digital marketing world for, for, for a media buying 1006 01:07:54,320 --> 01:08:00,320 business and for your clients? 1007 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:06,120 What are the challenges of us going to market or what are the challenges we solve for our 1008 01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:07,120 clients? 1009 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,120 What are the challenges that both, both? 1010 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,120 Yeah. 1011 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:11,120 Okay. 1012 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:15,200 Can we go into market everyone, their mother's a digital advertising firm. 1013 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,120 All you need is a computer and internet connection and a Facebook account and you can sell Facebook 1014 01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,000 ads. 1015 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:29,360 And so the way you identify a good agency is number one, they probably have wrinkles 1016 01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,400 on their face, wrinkles. 1017 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:36,840 They have a LinkedIn history profile that shows that they've been working in advertising 1018 01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:37,840 for a while now. 1019 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:43,920 You know, there's someone who was prominently running ads on, on me, on Facebook, who, who's 1020 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:49,600 LinkedIn he was in the digital marketing space and he was, I don't know what, and his experience 1021 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,560 was school of hard knocks. 1022 01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,760 Like that's weird. 1023 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:56,440 Like you need transparency. 1024 01:08:56,440 --> 01:08:58,640 Like what have I done with my career? 1025 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,640 You need to know that and that'll give you a sense and I can work, I can sell against 1026 01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:03,640 that. 1027 01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:08,360 So you need that experience, you need that context, communication consistency so that 1028 01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:12,640 you understand the work that we're doing for you and why the data, what story the data 1029 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,160 tells. 1030 01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:16,160 And we're agnostic. 1031 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,960 I think it's important to work with agnostic teams. 1032 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,800 Like I'm not here to sell you meta ads. 1033 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:28,200 Now the reality is that 45% of all digital advertising spend in 2024 will run on meta 1034 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:29,200 and Google. 1035 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:35,360 So chances are you got to be on meta and Google, but I'm not here to sell you meta or Google. 1036 01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:40,460 I'm here to set a strategy and then activate it with the expertise that is required to 1037 01:09:40,460 --> 01:09:44,760 actually drive a business, drive a business growth. 1038 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:49,880 So the challenges are everyone, their mother can be an ad agency, but if you know what 1039 01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,080 to look for you, there's telltale signs that someone doesn't know what they're talking 1040 01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,000 about. 1041 01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:00,800 The other thing is the challenges we solve for our clients are they need more revenue 1042 01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,880 and they need stickier client relationships. 1043 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:12,800 The more revenue part is the fact that they can basically sell against a 20 person media 1044 01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:20,280 buying team and that team has zero overhead costs for our partners. 1045 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:24,880 And they're there whenever you need them to run advertising campaigns, sell in pitches, 1046 01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:30,560 do the account management, all that stuff with zero overhead. 1047 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,600 And you only pay us when you're running campaigns. 1048 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:39,040 It's just like such a great opportunity for them. 1049 01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:45,320 The stickier client relationships part is really important because in the agency world, 1050 01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,720 there's always this fear that another agency is going to come in and swoop in on your business, 1051 01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:55,400 especially if you're an agency of record or you're on spec work where you don't have 1052 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:56,760 the agency of record status. 1053 01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,280 Either way, there's threat. 1054 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:05,800 And the threat is fundamentally when another agency comes in, like let's say a business 1055 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:10,240 does e-commerce and they do creative work. 1056 01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:19,560 Now if the agency doesn't provide media buying services, then the advertiser, the business 1057 01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:23,240 needs to find a media buying company. 1058 01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:29,440 And the concern is that the media buying company that they bring to the table also does creative. 1059 01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:36,680 So now over the course of the next year, they're seeing all this cool creative stuff that this 1060 01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:40,240 company does, but they're limited to media buying with them. 1061 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,900 And now you're sitting at the table with the company that's going to take your business 1062 01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:50,440 or as they said in that movie, drink your milkshake. 1063 01:11:50,440 --> 01:11:57,000 And so when you don't have to have that other entity at the table, you now have a closer 1064 01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:05,200 client relationship, you've protected that relationship, and you can focus on doing good 1065 01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:09,960 work and you've brought in another revenue stream while you're doing that. 1066 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:13,560 Big opportunities. 1067 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:19,160 So that's what we trade on, the ability to drive more revenue and create closer client 1068 01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,120 relationships for our clients. 1069 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,040 And it works. 1070 01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:29,760 I mean, our agencies, once they get connected to us, they stay with us for many years. 1071 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,400 That's awesome. 1072 01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:37,560 And that speaks about the value that you bring to the table. 1073 01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:46,320 And I think it's interesting that we're talking about context and the value that experts bring 1074 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:50,520 to the table, you and the experts. 1075 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:59,440 And we also initially talked about how AI is, there will be a billion dollar business 1076 01:12:59,440 --> 01:13:06,520 built off, just one person can build a billion dollar business. 1077 01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:16,700 So I think merging the two conversations together, one of the pitfalls of not leveraging experts 1078 01:13:16,700 --> 01:13:28,920 would be missing this context of really looking at the data the right way or missing the bigger 1079 01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:35,600 picture when you're looking at... 1080 01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:42,840 Just like you can make mistakes looking at the data, you can also make mistakes using 1081 01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:50,120 AI to drive your business because AI can be really tactical. 1082 01:13:50,120 --> 01:14:00,120 It can give you tactical solutions, but to your earlier point, it may not be able to 1083 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:09,920 give you the entire strategy or the vision to carry out your, build your business. 1084 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:11,040 So a couple of things. 1085 01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,640 I think the person that's going to hit this mark, a billion dollar business off of one 1086 01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,240 person, it'll be like with an asterisk. 1087 01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:21,800 I think they're going to have people who are not employees, but they're contractors doing 1088 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,640 some work for them. 1089 01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:33,720 But I think the people who are going to build these businesses are going to be the experts. 1090 01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:39,120 Or they'll just stumble into something that is just like going viral on TikTok. 1091 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:41,080 You could have a viral business, right? 1092 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:46,440 You just stumble on some really insane product market fit that is exceptionally scalable. 1093 01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:50,800 That could happen. 1094 01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:59,120 I do think that AI can give you a strategy, but I think the strategy... 1095 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,720 I think there's genius in the little things. 1096 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:13,680 I think AI, like if you have a conversation with Claude or chat GPT and it tells you something, 1097 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:20,920 that could be strategic information if you know how to deploy it. 1098 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:25,340 But I think, but that's less about the AI. 1099 01:15:25,340 --> 01:15:28,240 It's more about the individual, the human. 1100 01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:29,800 So the human has to be the expert. 1101 01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:33,840 The human has to be the genius to be able to put all these elements together. 1102 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:37,880 I agree from the perspective that in a lot of ways, AI, at least right now, who knows 1103 01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:44,040 what it's going to look like in a decade, I don't think AI can put together a series 1104 01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:48,480 of ideas that turn into a strategy by itself. 1105 01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:49,640 I agree with that. 1106 01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,800 It has to be a human that does that. 1107 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:53,800 Right. 1108 01:15:53,800 --> 01:16:05,800 I think, yeah, I think as I'm thinking about it, your conversation with AI can lead to 1109 01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:14,080 a strategy, but there may be some blind spots that unless you're an expert in that industry, 1110 01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,040 you wouldn't know the questions to ask. 1111 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:26,280 The AI knows the answers to those, but you're not asking those specific questions that could 1112 01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:35,160 be missing from the strategy or the solution that the AI has given. 1113 01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,160 I agree. 1114 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:37,160 It's interesting. 1115 01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:38,160 Yeah. 1116 01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:39,160 Yeah. 1117 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:40,160 You don't know what you don't know. 1118 01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:41,160 You don't know your blind spot. 1119 01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:42,760 And you can ask, you go to AI and be like, what's my blind spot on this? 1120 01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:43,760 Theoretically. 1121 01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:44,760 Yeah. 1122 01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:50,440 It's a question of, yeah, will AI do that? 1123 01:16:50,440 --> 01:16:56,240 There's dude, there's something that I saw on TikTok the other day that was like, they're 1124 01:16:56,240 --> 01:17:04,600 building, they're taking AI models, LLMs or chat GPT or something. 1125 01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:08,840 I'm not exactly sure what was the only thing. 1126 01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,040 And it's like what you see on, I don't even know how to describe it. 1127 01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:18,920 What you see on screen is like a child and that's the sort of physical form that we see 1128 01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:27,320 and the AI experiences the world through cameras. 1129 01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:31,040 It looks like a two-year-old or a three-year-old child. 1130 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:36,600 And it's like, man, like are they, is this like a digital life form? 1131 01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:41,400 Will one day this AI be like, I'm stuck here. 1132 01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,520 This is like, wasn't there like a movie about this? 1133 01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,760 Like, didn't this happen in like some movie like Deuce Ex Machina or something? 1134 01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:49,760 Ex Machina. 1135 01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:50,760 Yeah. 1136 01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:51,760 Yeah. 1137 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:52,760 Right. 1138 01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:53,760 That's crazy. 1139 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:54,760 It is. 1140 01:17:54,760 --> 01:18:01,760 I think there are already humanoid robots with chat GPT built into it. 1141 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:11,400 I mean, it'll be interesting when they put chat GPT in the Boston Dynamics, those dog 1142 01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:17,760 robots, you know, who knows what they're going to come up with. 1143 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,760 Right. 1144 01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:20,340 That's super interesting. 1145 01:18:20,340 --> 01:18:26,640 So there was, do you remember Bows for Galactica and the toasters? 1146 01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,120 Yes. 1147 01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:34,200 So kind of like what you just described reminds me of Caprica, which was, it was one season 1148 01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,200 the prequel to Bows for Galactica. 1149 01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:42,720 How basically like, this might be a little bit of a spoiler. 1150 01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:44,320 Can I talk about it? 1151 01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:45,320 Is that cool? 1152 01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,760 It's 2010, you guys have had to listen to it. 1153 01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:49,760 It's really cool though. 1154 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:58,600 It was basically like how that civilization, which happened in, which if you remember Bows 1155 01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:03,000 for Galactica, which again is a spoiler, the whole thing happened in the past. 1156 01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,000 Right. 1157 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:11,440 Like, so how this civilization in the past, I guess the planet was called Caprica, was 1158 01:19:11,440 --> 01:19:18,000 experimenting with uploading your soul into the cloud and how there were like religious 1159 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,000 factions to it and people who want to live at the cloud and people who said that the 1160 01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,040 cloud shouldn't exist and shouldn't house souls. 1161 01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:32,000 And they were experimenting also with putting people's souls into robots, hence Boston 1162 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,640 Dynamics. 1163 01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,560 But in this case, in the real world, like you don't know if chat GPT has a soul, that's 1164 01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:43,800 a whole different thing. 1165 01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:44,800 Can it mimic a soul? 1166 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,320 If it mimics a soul, does it actually have a soul? 1167 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,520 Whatever the case is. 1168 01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:55,320 Maybe the definition of a soul or a consciousness will change. 1169 01:19:55,320 --> 01:20:01,400 I took a class in college, which I love, which was, we read a book called Is Data Human? 1170 01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:03,720 Data from Star Trek. 1171 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:08,240 And it was like, we explored what it means to be a human. 1172 01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:09,840 You got to persist into the future. 1173 01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,400 You've got to have a vision of yourself existing into the future. 1174 01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,200 That's one of the things. 1175 01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,120 Or not human, but not a personhood. 1176 01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:20,240 So the idea is that, this just gets really wild. 1177 01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:25,480 The idea with this is what is a person? 1178 01:20:25,480 --> 01:20:32,480 We are people, but can there be non-human versions of persons? 1179 01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:34,440 What if they're aliens? 1180 01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:35,680 Are they persons? 1181 01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,360 Do they see themselves persisting into the future? 1182 01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:42,200 Anyway, it goes in a lot of different places, but defining what it means to actually be 1183 01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:45,600 a person was the main point of this course. 1184 01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,040 And I frankly have no idea what it was because it was a long time ago. 1185 01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:54,720 Yeah, it definitely makes you think. 1186 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:59,120 What excites you about current advancements in AI? 1187 01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:03,200 What excites you today? 1188 01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:04,200 It's the opportunity. 1189 01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,040 I mean, it's not one thing. 1190 01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:07,040 It's like what you can do. 1191 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,480 Like, for example, I can edit videos on Descript and it's AI editing. 1192 01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:12,480 It's so easy to do. 1193 01:21:12,480 --> 01:21:17,040 And it's not as cool looking as when I have my video editor to do it, but it's far less 1194 01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:18,040 expensive. 1195 01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:20,760 I mean, it's free, just my time. 1196 01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:23,400 And it also doesn't take a lot of time. 1197 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:26,760 And then you can create one video and get four or five different versions of it with 1198 01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,120 different intros and hooks just by copying and pasting text and moving it around, which 1199 01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,280 is 100% my speed on video editing. 1200 01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:39,560 Like I tried to figure out Adobe Premiere Pro and it was like a mess. 1201 01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:49,920 So, like, I think AI really makes it accessible for, makes, it allows people with ideas to 1202 01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:57,040 express themselves in ways that just were not even in the realm of possibility before. 1203 01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:03,320 Like I have ideas in my head, but I can't create art to express those ideas. 1204 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:04,960 Like I'm not Picasso. 1205 01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,800 I don't know Photoshop, you know, all that stuff. 1206 01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,560 So I can go to mid journey and create art. 1207 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,200 And all of a sudden people can see what's in my brain to some degree. 1208 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,560 Maybe it's not a perfect representation. 1209 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:24,640 So then the question is, will we ever be, you know, like with Elon Musk's neural link, 1210 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:30,120 will we ever be in a position where people will able, you'll be able to take whatever's 1211 01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:38,720 happening in the brain and turn it into art directly on the screen that I will not be 1212 01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:41,040 the first or second or 20th to sign up for it. 1213 01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,000 Cause that seems very dangerous. 1214 01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,000 Yes. 1215 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:45,000 Yeah. 1216 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:51,280 Um, it's, it's, it's absolutely, like you said, it's, it's almost has democratized 1217 01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:52,400 art. 1218 01:22:52,400 --> 01:23:00,320 The generative AI technology has democratized art and democratized expressing thoughts. 1219 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:08,840 There's a barrier to entry to express your thoughts as lower than ever before. 1220 01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:11,680 Really good point. 1221 01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,800 This is one of our staple questions. 1222 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:20,320 If, um, if you had a magic wand and money and resources were not constraints, what kind 1223 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:28,400 of AI models and intelligence would you like to build and what would you do with it? 1224 01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:35,040 See, this is, this is, this is, I have no business answering this cause I'm not creative 1225 01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:36,040 enough. 1226 01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:37,840 So I'm just going to go off of like movies that I've seen. 1227 01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:42,200 Um, and the movie that I've seen, which, which is when you take away all the drama of it, 1228 01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:49,440 but just the core nugget of like tech is going to be, um, oh my gosh, what's that movie called? 1229 01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:53,600 It's the Arnold movie where he's on Mars. 1230 01:23:53,600 --> 01:24:00,800 Um, hold on Arnold movie, uh, brain scan. 1231 01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:01,800 Hold on. 1232 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,360 I'll have to look for this. 1233 01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:06,360 Brain scan. 1234 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:07,360 No total recall. 1235 01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:08,360 That's what it was. 1236 01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:09,360 Total recall. 1237 01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:14,840 I mean, if I can go on freaking vacation anywhere and have any experience that I've ever wanted 1238 01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,360 and all you gotta do is zap my brain a little bit. 1239 01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:18,360 Sounds great. 1240 01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:19,360 Total recall. 1241 01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:20,360 I love that. 1242 01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:21,360 That's what I want. 1243 01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:22,360 That's what I want. 1244 01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:23,360 That's a billion. 1245 01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:24,360 That's a trillion dollar. 1246 01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:26,200 That's not a billion dollar business. 1247 01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:28,120 That's a trillion dollar business. 1248 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:32,240 I mean, you've got all the, you've got the LLMs, you've got Elon Musk, Neuralink, give 1249 01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:38,040 it like 50 years and my kid's going to go be going on vacation on like some planet we 1250 01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:42,280 haven't even discovered with, but it's only going to be through their brain. 1251 01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:43,280 I love that. 1252 01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:44,280 I love that. 1253 01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:45,280 Yeah. 1254 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,080 That's definitely trillions of dollars of business. 1255 01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:49,080 Yeah. 1256 01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:50,080 Yeah. 1257 01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:53,400 That's more than space tourism at that point. 1258 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:54,400 Yeah. 1259 01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:55,840 I mean, cause you're unfettered. 1260 01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:02,400 I mean, you know, the interesting idea regarding space tourism is that, you know, there, you 1261 01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:08,560 know, I pay attention to a lot of like sci-fi things and somewhere at some point I saw something 1262 01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:16,120 that was saying like the final frontier is not space travel. 1263 01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:20,160 It's going inwards in your brain. 1264 01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:27,360 And like, if you think about technology and like sci-fi aliens and all that stuff, like 1265 01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:32,680 the aliens that can travel the farthest or the things that can travel the furthest is 1266 01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:34,440 energy, right? 1267 01:25:34,440 --> 01:25:41,200 A photon, for example, when a photon like is generated from the sun and hits my eyeball, 1268 01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:42,640 its life is instantaneous. 1269 01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:47,360 It doesn't experience time because it's moving at as fast as the speed of time can take. 1270 01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,600 So it's experiences instantaneous. 1271 01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,880 It just blinks in and out of existence. 1272 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:55,960 Right? 1273 01:25:55,960 --> 01:26:01,200 So the brain and waves and electromagnetism and the ability to take our ideas and our 1274 01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:05,880 consciousness and travel, which sounds so woo, I just said consciousness. 1275 01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:06,960 I don't mean it like that. 1276 01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,040 Like there's all bunch of boo on TikTok. 1277 01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:11,280 That's not necessarily who I am. 1278 01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:16,160 But fundamentally as a sci-fi trope, as an idea of traveling the universe and the galaxies 1279 01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:22,560 and et cetera, the best way to do it, and there's like nanotechnology that can be developed 1280 01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:29,600 that can travel many light years away because it's so tiny and powered by like solar sails. 1281 01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:34,200 That will be the thing that reaches the farthest of humanity very early on. 1282 01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:43,520 So my point is I think energy is the most basic essence of our existence. 1283 01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:48,680 And that's the final frontier, pushing energy out. 1284 01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:50,040 That's really powerful, right? 1285 01:26:50,040 --> 01:27:04,120 Because if you're thinking in terms of a combination of matter and energy, there's a lot of limitations. 1286 01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:12,400 But if you can harness the energy and make that, you can encode, say, laugh for the lack 1287 01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:20,280 of a better term, if you can encode your consciousness into an energy particle, then there's no limit. 1288 01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:21,480 There's no limit. 1289 01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:33,280 Then you've got to figure out a way like, is that existence bad, good, or like amazing? 1290 01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:38,440 Like, is it bad to be a piece of energy floating through the universe? 1291 01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:43,360 There was some sci-fi, something that I saw recently that I think has some element of 1292 01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:47,480 that where it's like, you're just floating through the universe existing, but you're 1293 01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:48,840 a piece of energy. 1294 01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,800 So like, you don't have arms and legs, you can't talk to people, but somehow you can 1295 01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:56,400 understand and interact with the people of earth, for example, you could understand the 1296 01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,400 language or whatever. 1297 01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:03,680 So it's like, is that a better existence to live as an energy particle? 1298 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:04,680 And who the heck knows, right? 1299 01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:09,840 Because we're in 2024 and these are questions to be answered in like the year 9,700 or something. 1300 01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:10,840 I know. 1301 01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:11,840 Yeah, it's super interesting. 1302 01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:17,960 I mean, yeah, I mean, these are the five senses that we currently have. 1303 01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:22,960 What's to say the others are good, better or worse than this? 1304 01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:31,280 Well, there was a scene in Balasar Galactica with, I can't remember his name. 1305 01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,440 He played Al Calabitchi on Quantum Leap. 1306 01:28:34,440 --> 01:28:40,560 Let's see, Al Calabitchi played by, yeah, Dean Stockwell. 1307 01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:42,640 So Dean Stockwell had a role. 1308 01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:43,640 Did you see Balasar Galactica? 1309 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:44,640 Yeah, yeah, I have. 1310 01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:45,640 Okay. 1311 01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:47,440 So he had a role just for the audience, right? 1312 01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:51,640 He had a role in Balasar Galactica and he has really like phenomenal scene where he 1313 01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:56,520 says I'm not going to do it justice, but he's like, man, I'm stuck in this human body. 1314 01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:02,280 I want to experience the roar of the feel of a supernova on my skin, but I'm stuck with 1315 01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:07,840 these silly senses and I can only see a tiny sliver of the wavelengths of light and this 1316 01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:08,840 is horrible. 1317 01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:09,840 This sucks. 1318 01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:10,840 Darn it. 1319 01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,960 Why they have to create me like this? 1320 01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:15,760 There's a lot to it. 1321 01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:16,760 Anyway. 1322 01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,760 No. 1323 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,760 This was a really fun conversation. 1324 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,120 I learned a lot. 1325 01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:26,720 Appreciate you taking the time. 1326 01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:27,720 Thank you, Robert. 1327 01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:28,720 Thanks, Mitty. 1328 01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:51,040 Then I have Isis. 1329 01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:56,260 Good luck.