Hello my friends! Welcome back to another episode
of the CNS Podcast. Our guest today is Bob Cloutier.
He is a retired business owner and a father.
Today, we will discuss why money will never make
you happy. Why Bob got kicked out of his house
at 18 years old. His experience living out of
his car. Why leaving his family saved him from
a lot more suffering. How he overcame the worst
moments of his life. How he started his first
business. And much more. If you like this show
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you so much for your support. Enjoy the episode.
the avenue that you did to get to the financial
success that you've gotten to? Like, how did
you get to where you are now? I will say when
I was younger, I certainly thought life was everything
that hard work and everything I did on my own.
I certainly had that mentality and certainly
relied on myself. and my own intuition and my
hard work to get where I was, to where I am.
What I began to realize as I was growing up and
getting older, probably into my mid -30s, at
that time I probably had 12 really cool cars
similar to this. They weren't Dodge Vipers. They
didn't make them back then. But I had a lot of
cool cars. And I reflected. on life. Take time
when you get older. And reflected, and I thought,
wow, what's all this stuff I have? What does
it really mean? How does it really impact anything
we do and live our lives? And from that, became
more of a consistent churchgoer and started going
to services every week and sort of found that
those things are really all meaningless because
when we leave this place where we're living,
and life here is short for all of us. It doesn't
matter if you live here for one year or even
if you live here for 100. In the big scheme of
things, life is pretty short. And so what I began
to realize was through my life, because of the
things that were happening, it was just too coincidental.
that good things were coming my way. And so you
begin to realize that someone is there walking
with you. And different people might have different
views on that, but what I came to learn was that,
hey, my relationship with Jesus is really something
that helps me in my day -to -day life, and it
helps me come to where I am today. Yeah. And
what was the... How did you get to the point
where you did have all this stuff, where you
were a pretty poor boy before living out of your
car? How did you go from that to having 12 supercars
in your garage? Well, I didn't have 12 in my
garage at that time, but I did have 12. My garage
was a little smaller then. It wasn't in this
house I was at. So back then, like I said, I
thought it was everything I was doing. And so
I was working hard. I'd worked two full -time
jobs and a part -time job. And in some respect,
when you're working like that, it's hard to get
into a lot of trouble because you're busy from
the moment you get up to the moment you go to
bed. But I was always one of those that could
think a little differently than others and sort
of see that I could take some risk and I could
see some long -term planning. I was never really
short -sighted. And those are the type of things
I think that are gifts that God gives us. Some
people might say your guardian angel is with
you at all times, and maybe that's true. I don't
know 100 % for sure. But I will say that life
worked out too well for me. There was too many
bad things that could have happened that didn't.
And I do attribute that to a power greater than
just myself. So if you'd like to hear a life
story from when I was first, you know, when I
first graduated high school and left home to
where I'm at today, we could step there or wherever
you'd like to go. Yeah. I mean, first off, I'd
like to comment what you said about material
stuff doesn't matter. material stuff really does
matter it seems like it matters but the best
analogy i've ever heard for for money and stuff
is we all sit down at a poker table and we we
get our hand we play our chips and then at the
end instead of cashing out our chips death knocks
on your shoulder and he said it's time to go
and you just push all the chips back onto the
table and everyone continues to play without
you you can't take any of it out with you which
I really like that analogy that speaks to me
into how the stuff doesn't really matter. It's
so true what you just said. The thing I think
most people don't realize is we hear society
norms saying the ones with the most toys win.
We hear a lot of cliches similar to that. What
I found is, and the reason why I still have some
cool cars, I have a number of them here, is because
it allows me to meet. other people that I probably
wouldn't meet if I didn't have these cars. And
what it allows me to do is it allows me to show
that you can have a cool car like this and still
have faith. And so when we go on rallies and
other road trips with other people, though the
cars are what sort of our common denominator,
what sort of sets us aside is I let people know
that, hey, I plant a seed and I let them know
that, hey, on Sundays we're churchgoers and we're
going. And I invite others that are in our group,
hey, if they'd like to go, hey, why don't you
come with us and see? And it's surprising that
typically on most rallies or most events we go,
we'll get at least one other couple to go with
us. And so it opens the door and it gives them
an opportunity to see that, hey. This is going
to be something that's going to be beneficial
in your life, where if we didn't have these cars,
we wouldn't have these interactions with these
other people. Earlier you mentioned that, I don't
remember exactly what you said, but you said
it's hard for people with a lot of stuff or nice
cars to be good Christians or something along
those lines. Why do you say that? Well, what
happens is, it depends what your focus is in
life. And so obviously when people have money,
often their focus is money -focused. And so instead
of doing always the right thing, and I don't
know if the right thing would be called the godly
choice, what it is is they look at how do they
maximize the money that they have or money potential
they can gain. And so instead of making what
I would call the... The right choice, the Christian
choice, the right values with ethics. What people
will sometimes do is they will cut that short
because they're looking to maximize their profit.
And I'm not saying that even myself in the early
days that I did everything that I'm proud of,
every choice I made. Knowing what I know today,
I certainly would have done things differently.
That was my life journey, and we're all on a
journey, and all you can do is gain wisdom and
reflect back and say, hey, I'm going to do it
different moving forward. So to answer your question,
the biggest thing is if people, and if you want
to know what your real focus is, look at what
you spend your money on. And if you spend your
money on helping others, If you spend your money
on buying more toys for yourself, that's really
where your focus is. And I think that if people
just took a step back and looked at that, that
would give them some perspective on life. Unfortunately,
what happens is, especially when we're younger,
we're more in survival mode. And in survival
mode, we're just trying to make it day to day.
When you get to be a certain age where you finally
have... I've never made a car payment, and when
I bought a house, I'm the type that pays it off,
so I pay it off five years or less. If you can
live debt -free, it allows you to take some perspective
and see what's going on in the world and what
is important in life and in the world and what
is meaningless and what has meaning in your life.
Yeah. What were some of those things that you
said you would have done differently? So when
we spoke earlier yesterday, I told you when I
first came to Denver back in 1974, I got a job
at a fiberglass place. And at the fiberglass
place, we worked on Corvettes. And the cars that
came in were typically the 1963 to 1967 Corvettes.
Now, we did get some of the... The next generation,
I think it's like Generation 3, but it was typically
mostly those. And we put flares and all types
of things. And because I was working there, and
at the time I was 19, everyone that left their
car overnight, I told you, all of us guys would
take them out for a joyride. Certainly not the
thing to do. Certainly not condoned. Certainly
I knew better not to do that, but it was just
some of those things you do, and when you reflect
back, well, why did you do it? Well, it was fun,
but I certainly wouldn't do that today. I'm sure
that there's people out there, I don't know specifically,
but I'm sure there's people out there I could
have done a helping hand or done some things
better when I interacted with them, and I didn't.
Was there anything in regards to money? You made
the incorrect choice, as you said, or you didn't
make the right choice because you were thinking
about money or stuff? Well, I do know because
I'm a business owner and I've owned a number
of businesses. One of the things I did looking
today, I was always looking at myself first.
And the way I managed money in the early days
as a business owner, I paid myself first and
then my employees. And so what that meant to
me was their salary was based on the profits
that was left over from mine. Looking at today,
I probably would have done that a little differently.
I probably would have started their salary, hey,
here's what your value is, and later in life...
before I retired, most of my employees were commission
-based. And by having them commission -based,
it meant that the amount of effort they put in
was directly proportional to the amount of salary
they were paid. And to me, I really think that
lets people be in charge of their own destiny.
And knowing what I know today, that's probably
something I should have done earlier on than
when I did. Yeah, yeah. You also said that you
had a life that went a little bit too well, but
it also started not going well from the onset.
When you were 18, you got kicked out of your
house. What was your initial reaction to getting
kicked out in regards to your parents or in regards
to the world? What was that like? Oh, wow. That
was a long time ago. So I was kicked out at 18.
I graduated high school, luckily. And so at the
time, I was one of those types of people that
actually looked. And like I told you earlier,
I felt probably from the age of 15, certainly
by the age of 16, I felt I could make. better
decision than my parents and better decisions
than a lot of other adults. And so I was always
looking and analyzing some of the choices they'd
make. And if I ever asked them, why did they
make this choice? You know, they just, you know,
shut me down, give me some, you know, shut up
or some other excuse. But those are the type
things you learn that, you know, hey, that helps
you to understand some of the choices you make.
But anyways, to answer your question, when I
was kicked out of the house, I was told on a
Wednesday to leave, and I left that Saturday,
and I had about $200 of money in hand, cash money.
Back then, people did have checking accounts.
They certainly didn't have credit cards back
then. It was cash money is what most people used.
and checking accounts. Well, I had cash money,
about $200 that I left home with, and I left
home with a Mustang that I'd bought, a 1965 Mustang
that I bought from a junkyard there in Maine.
And I fixed that car up before I left, and it
was my daily driver. It was a six -cylinder with
a three -speed. Really a junker of a car, but,
you know, when you're a kid, that's all I could
afford. But it was a Mustang. But it was a Mustang.
And like I told you, when you're back in that
generation, what was important to guys was having
a cool car. You know, you wanted something. Mine
was a six -cylinder, so it wasn't that cool.
But back in Maine, I never knew a Mustang had
a V8 because everyone I ever saw there. We're
only six -cylinder ones. So anyways, but when
I was told to leave, and at first I thought,
well, maybe they're kidding, but being the way
I was brought up, if my dad would say something
and you ever said anything back or tried to push
back a little bit, either you get backhanded
across the face, get punched in the chest, get
punched in the shoulder, get kicked, one of those
things. When he said that, I didn't say anything,
but I started getting prepared. And when Saturday
came, I sort of said, hey, I'm leaving, expecting
like, well, maybe he's going to say no, or, you
know, I wasn't really that serious about this.
But that wasn't the case. So I drove off, and
we lived in northern Maine. Before we got to
Maine, my... My dad was in the military. We lived
in Okinawa, and I graduated high school in Okinawa
in 1973. After I graduated high school, my dad
got stationed in northern Maine, Loring Air Force
Base. Very, very cold place to live. Not a great
place for families, but, you know, it is what
it is. And so when I left, As I'm driving away
that day, I was crying, and I was thinking, wow,
why is these things happening to me? But it's
the way life was, and there wasn't any cell phones.
I did have a girlfriend when I was in high school,
and I felt we were pretty serious. At the time,
we said we loved each other and all the rest
of that. And we're married, and we'll be married
almost 50 years coming up. segue into that story.
So I left home, drove in my car, drove out to
see my girlfriend. At the time, her folks got
stationed in Riverside, California, which is
a lot nicer than luring Air Force Base in Maine.
I stayed with her a month, almost 30 days, and
her parents wanted us to get married. And they
weren't really pressuring us really bad, but
they kept throwing the hints out. What's your
plans? What's your idea? And when you have your
girlfriend with you, it's really hard because
you're comfortable. It's really hard to do the
things you know you need to do. And so at that
point, I knew I needed to leave, and I needed
to leave because I just couldn't stay there.
And live off of them. That was the way I was
born. And the nice thing about being there was,
you know, your girlfriend's doing your laundry.
And, you know, you're getting fed. And you don't
have to worry about any of that. When I drove
from Maine out to California, you drive through
the day. Heaven forbid you don't want to drive
at night. Something might break down on your
car and you can't see. So I would pull over and
sleep in my car on the side of the road. on an
off -ramp or an on -ramp or on some of the roads
back east, the median between the interstate
was really wide. I would just pull into the median
and sleep in my car back then. So, like I said,
it was a different time. And you'd stop at a
gas station when you got gas. oil and water and
you check your tire pressures and you'd always
check the map and see about how close you were
on target and sometimes you know it got a little
off track but you sort of look at a paper map
and some gas stations back then actually gave
you the paper maps if i had to buy one i never
did it was an expense i didn't want to spend
it on so So I left my girlfriend's house. That
was Joan, who's my wife. And like I said, we've
been married almost 50 years. And I headed back
east. I had a friend who lived next door to me
when I lived in Okinawa. And his name was Rob.
And he lived in Colorado Springs. So I thought,
hey, I'm going to come out to visit him. And
maybe we'll get an apartment or a place together.
And which is surprising about this is, We all
left at about the same time. Your tour of duty
in Okinawa is about three years, is for a military
guy. So every three years we were moving as a
family. And when we came to, when I went to my
friend's house, obviously no cell phone so you
don't call. You just knock on the door. You just
knock on the door, exactly. It was, people don't
realize. How convenient your cell phone is. You
text, hey, I'll be there in five minutes. That
isn't the way it was. You would send a letter.
They would get it maybe a week later. And I don't
even remember if I sent him a letter. Obviously,
I got his address somehow, so we must have corresponded
by letter some way. But I did have his address.
And so I drove from Riverside, California, all
the way to Colorado Springs. And I did have his
phone number. And so when I got to Colorado Springs,
I stop at gas stations and get directions on
where this address is and how to get there, look
on a map. And I show up at his house, bang on
his door, and it's like, hey, I'm here. And his
parents were like, well, geez, what are you doing
here? And this was probably about 11 o 'clock
in the morning is what I remember. And I was
thinking as I was driving there, oh, they're
going to invite me to lunch and then we'll talk.
And when her parents said that, it was like,
wow. So what ended up for me, I think I stayed
maybe 15 minutes after driving that far. You
know, maybe I think it took me two or three days
from Riverside, California to get there. I got
back in my car and I said, geez, where should
I go? And that's why I went to Denver because
I thought, hey, I could get some opportunities
in Denver. And then in Denver, what I did was
is, you know, still staying in my car because
that's all I really knew and had. That was my
property. And every worldly possession I owned
at that point was in the trunk of my car because
that was the only thing in my car that locked.
I could lock them on the inside if I was sitting
inside, but if I was outside, I couldn't lock
the inside of my doors because my key didn't
work on the outside. It's just the way things
were back then. And so what I went ahead and
did is when I was there in Denver, the sort of
industrial area was off about Santa Fe to Federal,
from about Dartmouth to maybe Hampton. And that
area was heavy. I will say manual labor type
work. And so I stopped at a shop. I just walked
in. I says, hey, are you looking for any help?
I'm looking for a job. And the guy at the place
said, well, hey, what can you do? I says, well,
geez, whatever you need me to. Excuse me. And
so I said, hey, I'm sure I can, whatever. And
so they had me start on the night shift that
day. And I was making, like, aluminum parts.
So it was like you pour melted aluminum into
a mold, and then it would harden and kick it
out, and then you trim the flash off, put it
in a box. And it was really hot. So this was
probably now July, August, and it was hot even
at night to do that. So I was thinking, how do
the people do this through the day? So after
I was doing that job a couple days, because it
was at night, to the day I was looking for other
jobs. And so what I found was I was driving down
Colfax, and Colfax was a busy street even then
here in the Denver area. There was a car place,
and it was called Allied Fiberglass. And so I
pulled up there with my Mustang, and I went inside,
and they had a bunch of Corvettes around the
place. And I asked them if they were hiring or
if they needed any help. And they told me, because
there was quite a few 63 to 67 Corvettes in the
area. It was a pretty big place. And they said,
hey, if I could fix the electric headlights where
the headlights rocker, when you turn the headlights
on, they rocker up and come on as opposed to
into the body. They said I'd have a job. So they
didn't offer me any money at the time. It was
just, hey, if you can do this, hey, well. Well,
why are you? So I went ahead and I had a few
tools. I don't know. They might call them clubs
today, but, you know, they were called tools
to me back then. And they had some tools in the
shop. And so I looked at my first Corvette. I
don't remember what year it was, but I know it
was a 63 to 67. Could have been, you know, any
one of those years. All the headlights worked
the same. And so after a couple hours, I had
taken the headlight out. I saw it's an electric
motor. You know, they get water in them, they
corrode a little bit. And, you know, with a piece
of like emery cloth, clean up the armature on
them. It wasn't really that big a deal once you
sort of saw how it works. And my car had a generator
in it. It was an early 65 Mustang, had a generator.
And I'd rebuilt the generator in it, and it was
essentially the same type of... electrical device
as those electric headlights and so it was really
pretty easy once I got it apart I spent about
two hours I got it working I showed them they
were amazed and they said hey I was hired now
back then this was 1974 they were paying me I
don't even know if I got $2 an hour. I think
it was $1 .60, but it might have been $2 an hour.
And so I don't know what they were charging for
my work. But anyways, that's what I was getting
paid. And I did work on Corvettes, and it was
fun. As a young guy, all those Corvettes that
I worked on, if I remember, were all manual.
They were all four -speed cars. And we put fender
flares on them. We did all types of little different
mechanical things. The cars were really pretty
basic back then. So anyways, I mean, I could
go a little further and deep on that if you're
mechanically, you know, want to know more. But
essentially, that was my job. And I worked there
for a number of years. So that was where that
was. Yeah. And then at some point during your
time in Denver. You got a phone call. Yeah. So
one thing to note, when I was working at that
fiberglass place, people might want to know,
well, where'd you live? Well, I still lived in
my car. And what I did was, is just really quickly,
through the day, I would work on the cars. And
at night, after work, or if they had extra hours
that I could work, I would actually stay and
I would work later because I could make a little
more money. But then I would go to either City
Park, Cheeseman Park, Washington Park, and I'd
just park my car on the side of the road there.
And I would sleep in my car. And then in the
morning, what I would do is I would run down
off Colorado Boulevard at about just past I -70,
probably at about... 60th Avenue, I'll say, 58th
or 60th, there was a hotel on the west side of
the street. And back then, they didn't use credit
cards to open and close the doors. You actually
had to have a key. And I would just pull up,
and if a door was open, I'd just run in and take
a shower. And most of the time, there was a dry
towel, but sometimes there wasn't. And it was
just... Back then, I was young, and... It was
nice because they had a flush toilet and all
the rest of that stuff. And it was just what
you did. And they never gave me any grief about
it. You know, they'd always have like a bar of
soap, you know, one of those little small ones
back then. And people don't believe it, but that's
how it was back then. And the way I found that
hotel was when I was working at the aluminum
shop, I would go to... because I worked at night,
to the day it gave me time. And so when I drive
around in my car, I found that hotel. I saw a
couple others, but that one really worked well.
And I used that for probably... Well over a month,
maybe close to two months. So anyways, the incident
you're talking about, I'd probably been working
at that fiberglass place for a few months. They
liked me there because I was one of those hardworking
guys, and if they needed anything extra done,
I was always the one to do it because I was looking
to make extra money because I wanted to move
into some place, an apartment, because I knew
in the wintertime when it gets cold, it's going
to be a little tough to sleep in my car. So I
just got in an apartment about a week later,
and it was a one -bedroom, and they called it
furnished. And furnished meant that it had a
couch and maybe a chair or maybe a dining table
in it. Furnished didn't mean it had a bed. So
I had a sleeping bag because I was in the Boy
Scouts from way back when, and so that's what
I used as my bed at that time. There was no dressers
or anything in that place. But anyways, I got
a phone call. On that phone call, it was from
the Red Cross, and I'd never had a phone call
at work. So when the owners came and said, Bob,
you have a phone call, I'm thinking like, what?
Who even knows I work here? I'd certainly never
given the phone number out because who's going
to call me? But I answered the phone, and they
asked to identify myself, which I did. And then
they said, They said they were the Red Cross,
and they said, hey, there was an accident in
my family. I don't remember all the specifics,
but I do know the key parts they told me. There
was a number of people in my family that had
died, and that I needed to get back to Maine
to help sort through some of the issues. I realized
I was just a kid. I didn't shave. I didn't have
hair. You know, I was just, I cut my own hair
with a pair of scissors. You know, I didn't,
you know, I didn't, certainly didn't go to a
barbershop or any of that. Do you still do that?
No, I go to Greg Clips or my wife. If it gets
too messy, I'll have her trim it. So anyways,
when I was talking to them on the phone, they
identified themselves as Red Cross, that there
was this tragic accident or tragic problem that
had happened back in Maine. I had no idea what
it was. I hadn't had any communication with any
of my family since I had left back in, we'll
say, June 1st. And now this is already, this
is October, I'll say this is. I said, well, geez,
I don't have any money. I can't drive back. Because
back then, the speed limit wasn't 75 where you
could go 85 or 90. The speed limit was 55. And
the cars back then, part of the reason why the
speed limit was 55, that was about as fast as
those. old cars would go. They just didn't have,
you know, the reliability or the power to go
a lot faster. Anyways, they said that they'd
be more than happy, excuse me, to supply me a
one -way plane ticket to Maine. And at the time,
I was thinking, wow, one -way plane ticket, that
sounds great, but how the heck am I going to
get back? And then I think, what about my job
here? I got a good thing going. I certainly don't
want to mess that up. So I said, let me just
take a minute here and let me see what I can
find out. So I set the phone down. I talked to
the owners. And the owners, I think, were Monty
and Mark. They were two brothers. They were older
than me, probably twice my age. Maybe they were
30 and I was, you know, 19 at the time. And I
asked them, I says, hey, could I be gone for
a couple weeks for this? And they said, sure,
take the time you need. And so they got back
on the phone and I said, hey, my work here says
it's going to be all right. Let me go ahead and
take you up on that offer for a free ticket.
And they said, I'm not 100 % sure, but I believe
they said something to the effect. Just go to
the airport, and it was Stapleton is what the
one off about 35th and Quebec. Go to the airport,
and at the TWA ticket counter, you'll have a
ticket for you. And I think it was TWA. I'm not
100 % sure, but I believe it was. And so right
away, the clothes I was wearing, I just got in
my car and left. and drove to the airport without
a bag, without anything. I didn't go home, didn't
anything. And it should be interesting to note,
when I was growing up, I never learned how to
do laundry, so I never did. What I would do is
about once every few weeks, I'd go to Goodwill,
and I'd buy five pairs of pants and five shirts,
and the pants were like a quarter each. And the
shirts were, I don't know, 10 or 15 cents. And
I wasn't too picky on what I'd buy, just as long
as it was sort of fit. I sort of put them on.
But the pants weren't jeans that they sold back
then. They were all dress pants. You know, they,
you know, maybe would have plaid suit pants,
bell bottoms, whatever. And I used those. And
I'd mix and match the shirts and the pants as
long as I could for a number of weeks. And when
they got too dirty, too croaty, too whatever,
I just threw them out. And buy another set. And
that's what I sort of did. And so obviously no
socks, no underwear, no T -shirts, you know,
because they didn't sell that stuff there. And
so anyways, here it is. I was at work. I have
my work clothes. I'll call it on. Go to the airport.
When I got there, I don't remember what it was,
you know, 1, 2 in the afternoon. The flight was
for the next day. So I didn't go home. I just
stayed the night at the airport in Stapleton.
And the next day, caught the flight. We flew
from, it was nonstop from Denver to Boston. And
then at Boston, it was a propeller, a crop duster
plane is what I call it. And there was a handful
of us on it. And we flew from Boston to Portland.
Maine. And so we got into Portland. I remember
it was at night. And I'm thinking, how the heck
am I going to get to my grandparents? They told
me it was Lewiston, Maine is where I was going.
And I did have the address to my grandparents.
And I knew their phone number. But I'm thinking,
what the heck am I going to do? Anyways, I get
off the plane. And I walk out. And I see my mom's
brother. His name was Ray. And he was there.
And it's a really, really small airport. The
airports back then aren't like today. You didn't
have security. You could walk around. That airport
was probably the size of my current house. There
wasn't anything special there. You landed on
the pavement and you got out and you walked on
the pavement to a door. You could walk inside
and then you're inside what looked like maybe
a farmhouse. Anyways, he was there. And I said
something to him, and he says, here, we need
to go. So we went to my grandparents' house.
And he talked to me a little bit about it on
the way, and he said, what I recall him saying
was is, my dad was dead, my grandparents had
died, and my mom and my three brothers that were
still at home were all in the hospital from gunshot
wounds. I didn't really know everything that
was going on. And, you know, at my age, 19 at
the time, you know, what do we really know about
life? So anyways, I get to my grandparents' house,
and my mom had had a total of seven kids in her
family. So her parents had seven kids. And all
seven of them, all seven with the exception of
my mom, they were all there. And they were all
upset. And I'm trying to sort out what's going
on. So anyways, what I found out was is when
I was gone, when I'd been kicked out of the house,
and I got to say that life was never simple for
us in the military because having a military
life, my dad felt he was the king of the house.
And instead of us being children, we were more
like his troops. And when he told us to do something,
we were supposed to do it immediately. And if
we didn't, we'd get some type of something painful
happen to us. And it wasn't just for us, but
it was also for my mom. And I remember when we
were overseas in Okinawa, and I could drive a
number of times, I'd take my mom to the hospital.
But the military at the time didn't do anything
about it, and there wasn't anything. about domestic
violence or any of that that we have today. So
those things are certainly better today, and
those things wouldn't happen today. But anyways,
what had happened was after I was kicked out
of the house and left, my mom decided at a time
when my dad was... out on tdy that was temporary
duty he had to fly someplace and he was gone
like for a month so she packed up herself and
my three brothers and my three brothers was the
one next younger than me he was two years younger
the next one was four and the next one was close
to 10 years younger than me i think 10 it was
either 9 or 10 and she packed him and she moved
into my grandparents and and Northern Maine,
Loring to Lewiston. I should have looked this
up, but it's probably 250 miles, maybe more,
but it's quite a drive. And so I don't know how
she did all that, but when I went to my grandparents'
house, a lot of our personal effects were everywhere
in the house. All the stuff that my parents had
owned. And my mom took the things that she felt
were hers and moved them to my grandparents'
house. So my mom's siblings were understandably
very upset. When you walk into my grandparents'
house, you walk into the kitchen area, and what
I remember was the kitchen carpet was tore up.
The walls back then, a lot of people used wallpaper
because the walls weren't finished the way they
were, and the wallpaper was all tore down. You
could see where some things had been broken and
some things had been damaged in the house. Anyways,
what I found out was because my mom had left
and moved in with her grandparents, my dad, when
he got home, he didn't like that or felt that,
hey, the world had ended in the way he understood
it. And so we had a couple of handguns. I don't
know all the particulars because obviously I
wasn't there. These are things I heard. Had a
couple handguns, went to see my grandparents
because that's where my mom and my brothers were.
And when my grandparents opened the door, he
came in and he shot and killed both of them.
Well, then there was chaos in the house because
my mom and my three brothers were there. So my
dad went through the house and he shot my mom
a few times, shot my brother just younger than
me. The one who was two years younger, he shot
him twice. My other two brothers each got shot
once. And my mom left when my dad was chasing
my brothers. My mom got up and ran to one of
the neighbors. And the neighbor's house wasn't
very close. It's not like they're 20, 40 feet
or 50 feet from one door to the next. Because
where they lived, it was more rural Maine. It
was probably... I would say probably closer to
maybe 100 yards. It was quite the distance to
someone else's house. Anyways, my mom ran there,
and my dad, when he saw her gone, he chased out
after her. And when he chased out after her,
when she got to the neighbor's, the neighbor
came out to try to defuse or stop what was going
on. My dad shot and killed that person also.
That is what happened. And what I found out was
that happened at least two or three days before
I arrived. So it took the Red Cross a little
bit of time to find me. My mom's brothers and
sisters, I think there was only one of them that
lived still in Maine. All the rest had moved
out of state. But all of them were there. All
of them had set themselves up in my grandparents'
house. And because they had lived there as kids,
they all had their rooms again. And what they
had done in their rooms that I noticed was they
had walked around the house and saw a lot of
my mom's things, and they had picked up and put
them in their rooms. I'm speculating that. It
could have been my mom had decorated the house,
but I sort of doubt it. I sort of think they
had picked that up and sort of figured it was
things they were going to take. So I see this,
and I'm like, wow, what is really going on? And
I find out my mom and my three brothers are at
a hospital. And I'm told that my dad is at the
coroner's office and I need to make some decisions.
And my mom was in intensive care and so was my
brother just younger than me. My other two brothers,
because they'd just been shot once and their
wounds weren't that severe, they were okay and
they probably could have left the hospital, but
who's going to take care of them? And so it's
nighttime and I'm trying to think, oh my God,
what type of a mess am I in? How am I going to
get around? And so I look over at my mom's brother.
And so at the time I was 19, so he was probably
40, maybe 41. And I said to him, hey, that's
my mom's car. I want the keys to it because that's
going to be my car. And if you want to use it,
you have to ask me. And it was a little bit of
a power struggle at the time. And they did give
me a lot of pushback, but I got the keys from
him. And I says, if you need to use it, you need
to come ask me. And so I went to like a room
in the house where my mom had been. And now I'm
trying to figure out what I'm going to do. But
I had to get with the coroner. Luckily, there
was two funeral homes. close in that town so
one of them had my grandparents and a neighbor
in that was that deceased and so it just made
sense my dad went to the other one it was further
away but it just made sense that you know from
a small town and as horrific as it was so I had
to do that I was then, the next morning when
I got up, I was looking, where's my dad's car?
My mom had a Pontiac station wagon, and my dad,
and it was an older one, so this is 1974, and
her car was a 1964 Pontiac station wagon. And
my dad's car was a 1972 Plymouth Duster. So not
a great car either, but it was what they had.
And so I was looking for it. Didn't see it. My
dad and I have the same first name and last name.
Our middle name is different. And so I was looking
around. I was told that I hadn't talked to any
of his family yet because my mom and dad had
gone to high school together and they were high
school sweethearts and gotten married. My dad's
family was also from. Lewiston, Maine. His mom
still lived in town. His dad was already deceased.
And he had two sisters. One of the sisters was
still living in town. The other sister was living
in New York and she had already come to town.
His brother was in the military and he was already
back in town also. So I found out my dad's car
was over at his mom's house. So I call his mom
and I said, hey, I want to come over and pick
up. And I told her on the phone, my car. And
she said it was her son's car. And I said, hey,
listen, that car has my name. And in Maine, it's
not a title state, so your car doesn't have a
title. It's just based on the registration. And
I still had my Maine driver's license. I never
changed that to a Colorado one when I was here.
So I said, hey, if I need to, I'm going to call
the police. And they gave me some pushback. But
anyways, long story short, I did call the police.
I did say, hey, I want to go over and pick up
my car. It was stolen. Obviously, everyone knew
what was going on. So my dad's mom told me if
I brought her his ring, his family ring, that
I guess it was one his dad gave him, and I never
knew this, that she would be okay. And I did
talk to, I didn't talk to his brother, but I
did talk to his sisters. And it was pretty sad
because they were crying and all the rest of
that. Here it is. I'm a 19 -year -old kid. Can't
really take care of myself, and I'm trying to
work through these things. Anyways, what I did
is went over. I had my mom's brother drive me
over in my mom's car. Went in myself. I gave
my grandma on my dad's side his ring because
I went and picked that up from the coroner and
drove off in his car. I went back to my grandma's
house that my mom was living in. And at the time,
had I had a few dollars or if someone helped
me or things would have been different, I probably
would have stayed in a hotel just to be out from
under all the stress and what was going on over
there. But anyways, so at my dad's... My sister's
brother and his mom said they wanted an open
casket. And that was really pretty tough because
my dad, when he killed himself, he didn't shoot
himself in the heart. He shot himself in the
side of his face. And when I went to, even though
the police knew who they were, I still had to
identify the body. And that was, it was, you
know, it was, it's. Still scary thinking about
how that was even today. It's not like they show
it on TV is all I'll say. And so I went ahead
and when he was at the funeral home and I told
the staff there, I never realized they're more
artists because they do the hair, they do the
makeup, and they reconstructed his face essentially.
I had to pick out a nose and an ear. They wanted
some pictures. Luckily, my mom had a few pictures
around our house. Pictures, another thing people
don't realize, everyone probably has a thousand
pictures of themselves and all their family on
their phones. That wasn't the way it was back
then. You know, you didn't develop all your pictures
because it was expensive to do. If you took color
pictures, you might have had the negatives done,
and then you'd look through the negative of what.
picture you thought was worth printing and then
out of a roll of 36 that you took a year to to
take 36 pictures you might print five because
it was because it was expensive to do wasn't
like it is today where it's like 10 cents a print
or something uh anyways i took some pictures
went down worked with him on trying to pick what
parts would work on my dad's face and We had
an open casket for his family because his family
wanted it. We picked the funeral dates, different
from my mom's parents, were from a Catholic family.
Both families went to the same church, so they
had the rosary service, the funeral. Obviously,
my mom's family, the church was overflowing,
was packed. At my dad's, it was not the same
experience. I went to both. My mom was in the
hospital probably close to two weeks because
my one brother was still in intensive care, the
one that was just younger than me. My other two
brothers, even though they could leave the hospital,
who was going to take care of them? And so the
hospital wanted them out, but I told them there
was no way I could take care of them. Like I
said, it was a different time. So the hospital
actually let my two brothers, my two youngest
brothers, and one was probably 14, 15, and the
other was probably 9, 8 or 9, and let them stay
in the hospital where my mom was staying in the
hospital room. So that was awfully nice of them.
So just at about, my mom got out. She was able
to get out at about two weeks. And that's when
we had the funeral for my dad. Because he was
active military, they did a military funeral.
And for what it was worth, that was nice. The
military did that. I did work with them a little
bit because I worked with them and my mom. So
they had someone from the military that came
in. My mom, at the time, the military people
were going over some benefits he had as a military
person. And it was good that the military did
all that because I had no money to spend, and
I certainly couldn't do anything to try to help
out. When I flew out there, I don't remember
exactly how much, but I'm sure it might have
been $50 I had in my pocket or maybe $80. But
I certainly didn't have any money to spend on
anything other than absolute necessities. So
once my mom was out, I was hoping things would
be better. Because of the way things were there
in Maine, it's a small town, and what my dad
did not only impacted our family, impacted a
neighbor's family. My mom told me there was no
way she was going to be able to stay in Maine.
Because I was living in Colorado, she thought
she was going to move to Colorado. It might sound
strange to do that, but realize we were in the
military, and every three years you're constantly
moving. So it wasn't like it was too, it didn't
sound like it was too extreme of something to
do. So what I did is I took my mom's car or station
wagon. I loaded as much stuff as I could. I sort
of upset some of her brothers and sisters because
everything that I knew that belonged to my mom,
I went through the rooms and took. And everything
I could jam in that car, I took. And, you know,
looking back today, I probably didn't need to
because the military did move my mom out here.
But I thought it was the right thing to do. And
when you're young and a kid, you know, what do
you really know? But anyways, I drove that car.
Out to Colorado, and it was three days, and it
was now the end of October, maybe November 1st.
I don't remember the exact date. And, you know,
so there's snow back east, icy roads, and I'm
a kid. And so I'm driving, and when I'm tired,
I pull over, stop, and sleep, and then start
back up and drive. It was an experience, though
I survived it and lived through it. It's not
something you want to go through if you don't
have to. Essentially, my mom and my three brothers
actually moved out and actually lived in my apartment
with me for probably a couple weeks. The furnished
apartment. My furnished apartment. For a couple
weeks when they were able to leave Maine. And
they didn't leave Maine until probably sometime
in January. But I had a carload of her stuff
here. So that was November, December. So it was
probably two and a half months before they could
actually leave. And they flew out to Colorado.
And I went and picked them up in their station
wagon that I had. And they, all the rest of their
stuff with their other car, the military shipped
it to Colorado. And when my mom was here, and
it was tough for her because she had been shot
three times in the arm, a few times in the abdomen.
She went looking for a house shopping right away,
and she was able to find a place in Littleton,
at the time my apartment was in. Aurora, and
it was off of essentially I -225 and about Colfax,
we'll say, you know, out east, Aurora. And so
she found a house down south. I don't know why
she picked that location, but she did. And she
bought the house on the GI Bill. So, you know,
essentially no money down, sign your name and
you can move in. And what she did, which I thought
was great because now I can get rid of all this
stuff. And we never were the type of family.
We had five kids in our family with my mom and
dad. So there were seven of us. And because we
were used to the military life, often there was
only one bathroom in the house. The military
houses weren't. like they are today, and they
certainly, when you have five kids, you don't
get a five -bedroom house with three bathrooms
or anything really fancy. So we might have had,
I remember most places we stayed at was two or
three bedrooms, two or three bedrooms with one
bathroom, most of the military housings we stayed
at. So anyways, but it was good that my mom moved.
And I helped her pack up and get all that stuff
there. And essentially, I stayed in the apartment.
And essentially, I don't know what else to talk
on that. We could go into some other details.
So one of the things we should have done. Another
one of those hindsight things. Back then, they
didn't do counseling. I think I told you a little
bit about that. I don't know. I was going to
ask you, how did you deal with all of what happened?
I mean, I'm 23, and I can't imagine going through
that at 19. I can't imagine you had a lot of
friends either. You were mostly working in Denver
on your own. How did you deal with it? You probably
didn't have anyone to talk about it with. So
another thing that's really different in our
society today. So the society norm back then
was if something bad happened to you, whatever
it might be, there wasn't counseling. And the
way it was for all of us. through school and
you know bad things happen to some kids some
kids had car accidents died or you know parents
died they were in the military um it was you
don't discuss the problems with others and what
the the thinking was back then the reason why
you didn't discuss it with anyone else is your
life is a mess or not good why would you want
to make someone else's life the same and so because
of that It was just something that wasn't discussed.
And so none of my brothers went to any counseling.
And, you know, I wasn't shot, and I didn't have
to spend any time in the hospital. Yes, I had
to deal with a lot of things, but I had nothing
of the experience my brothers did. And it's your
dad that did these things. Same for my mom. My
mom never remarried after this incident happened.
My brothers, one of them did get married. The
one just younger than me got married, and he
was married for maybe a little over a month,
and that didn't work out. And all my brothers
died early in their lives. None of us know for
sure, but I do believe that what occurred was
definitely because of what had happened. Did
you ever get a chance to talk to them about it?
It was something we never spoke about. It was
something that the things I'm telling you today
of how I got my mom's car from my brother, how
I got my dad's car from his mom and his sisters
and brother, I never even told that to my mom.
picking the things out from the funeral home,
you know, it was just something we never spoke
about. My wife and I have been married, you know,
like I said, close to 50 years. You know, we
might have discussed a few things, but we've
never sat down like this and actually, you know.
dissect at every little piece now she knows a
lot of things because you know we've been married
a long time but to sit down and discuss it we
never did um we did try to reconcile like well
geez why would your dad do something like this
you know why why is it um what had happened with
my dad my dad was in the military and he did
two tours of duty in vietnam and vietnam we all
know was not a popular war in the u .s for a
number of reasons A number of reasons why it
wasn't. We won't go into that. But when you're
in the military and you're told your tour of
duty is here, this is what you do. You don't
get a choice. So my dad went to Vietnam both
times for a year. And the first time he went,
I think he was, I don't remember his grade. Tech
sergeant, I would think. My dad, when this all
occurred, was a tech sergeant in E -5, E -6,
E -6. And when all this happened, my dad was
an E -9, so highest you can be in the Air Force.
He was Air Force. So what people don't realize
is, and like I told you, David, bottled water
is a fairly new phenomena for our society. Everyone
just uses it like, hey, this is normal. We didn't
have bottled water. We didn't have water jars.
We didn't have water bottles. We didn't have
any of that when we were growing up. You might
have had a drinking fountain here or there. Most
kids drank out of the hose. It was just the way
it was. You had a cup. They weren't a sippy cup
that you had. You just had a cup. You might have
left that outside from the day before that's
in the ground or on the grass. And if you wanted
water, you might fill it with the hose or the
spigot or whatever. But anyways, when my dad
was in the military overseas in Vietnam, obviously
they didn't have purified water. It wasn't readily
available in a manner that people could drink.
So what they did back then was all the military
guys drank beer. Now, it was 3 -2 beer, so that
means 3 .2 % as opposed to the full strength,
whatever it is today, 6 -7%. Yeah, 5 -6. Yeah,
or 5 or 6, whatever it is. I don't know. I don't
drink because of what had happened. So my dad,
that's all he drank was beer. And when you get
up... You know, and he'd drink beer. And the
first tour, he was okay. My recollection, I told
you, I felt we had maybe not a perfect family,
but I felt we had, there was happy times, is
what I'll say. It wasn't always fighting. It
wasn't always, you know, people, you know, having
a bone broken or, you know, someone in the hospital
because they got beat up or, you know, something
bad happened. The second time when my dad went,
when he came back, he was definitely an alcoholic.
And there was, he would probably drink, I don't
know, I would say a case of beer a day. I don't
know if it was that much, but it probably was.
And it wasn't three, two. And back then, they
didn't drink the beer they have today. It was
Schlitz or hams is what I seem to recall seeing
all the time. What's interesting is, even when
we lived in Okinawa and we left there in 1973,
if you go to the barracks where the GIs were,
and this is why I feel strongly for the veterans,
that some of the things that's happened to them
wasn't all their choice. So in the barracks...
This was in 73 when we were over there and I
was a dependent, so I was going to high school.
If you go into the barracks and they had pop
machines, and they'd have Choco, Pepsi, Mountain
Dew, Dr. Pepper, I don't know, whatever all the
Fresca, I think, was some of the, you know, orange
or whatever they had. And you put your nickel
or ten cents in and push the button. What came
out was a beer. And it was always hams or slits.
And it didn't seem to matter what pop you pushed.
It was just a beer. And that's what they put
in the machines. And so all the young guys that
were in the military, now it probably wasn't
the full -strength beer, but it was the 3 -2
beer, but that's what they drank. And my jobs
when I had over there, I'd work at some of the...
I'm trying to think some of the military jobs.
It was in warehouse work, most of it, you know,
because they were moving stuff in and out of
Vietnam. And I do have a lot of pictures that
I'd taken back then. They were black and white,
so I just did the negatives. You know, you don't
print them. But you go to a dark room and print
it yourself. But anyways, on Fridays, they bring
cases of beer in. And if you wanted some water
to drink through the day, they'd have a drinking
fountain. But out of the half dozen drinking
fountains there, there was always half of them
that didn't work. And it was just the way things
were. And so, you know, for me as a kid, the
drinking containers we had back then was called
a thermos. And you had a thermos generally was
for you put your soup in or you put your coffee.
You didn't have like a water bottle or... a water
jug or any of that other type of stuff. It just,
I just, it was just a different thing. So for
me, because my dad was an alcoholic, I know that's
at least I sort of feel that's why some of the
things happen that did, unfortunately. So whenever
you thought about your dad back then, what was
your opinion of him? Like, did you like him?
Do you think he was a good person? Like, What
was your thoughts around him? So interesting
question. So obviously things evolve. So when
I was younger, I thought we had five kids, you
know, and I thought my parents were good and
I thought this was the norm. As I was growing
up, I could see that, geez. I certainly don't
want to live like this, and I certainly don't
think this is the right way to be. Things that
would occur when we were in North Dakota before
we went to Okinawa, you know, so another freezing
place to another. Okinawa is a tropical place
where it's warm. When we were there, our family
was made Catholic Family of the Year. And I used
to think, how can they? And, you know, things
weren't great. because that was when my dad had
got back from the second tour of duty. And I'm
thinking, how can they pick us as Catholic Family
of the Year? Now, myself and my brother that
was just younger than me, we were altar servers.
And so we worked in the church, and my dad was
a lector, so we did read scripture readings in
the church. But all in all, if they had all saw
what went on behind closed doors, I would call
it like World War III most times. Because if
you ever said anything, you know, you got punch,
you got beat, you know, you got a black eye.
And when you went to school looking like that,
they never said a thing. They never said, geez,
did anything happen? They never asked. And it
wasn't just for me, but, you know, my mom was
the same. So she'd be wearing sunglasses in the
wintertime in North Dakota. But they did a write
-up on us, our family, and that happened. Earlier
years, I think things were good when my dad got
mixed up with alcohol. He never did drugs, as
long as I know. In the military, alcohol was
sort of like something everyone had to drink.
Here, have a beer with me. I don't know what
the reason was, but it was. It's just... So from
my standpoint, I saw that at an early age, and
I said, geez, life is tough enough for me. I'm
not going to drink ever. And I don't know, I
might have had a sip of beer once or twice, but
everyone that knows me knows that I just don't
drink. I don't care what it is. I just don't
need it. So anything else along those lines?
My mom might have had a drink once in a while,
but she never was. drunk or anything unfortunately
that wasn't the case for my brothers they sort
of saw drinking as something fun and unfortunately
that's you know you know attributed to their
early death also so um hopefully i answered that
question okay i don't know i mean yeah i was
just asking if If you liked him, I guess. So
the answer was in the early years, I will say
yes, you know, because I figured. But remember
in the military, the dads are gone often. So
you didn't see him that often and he was working.
Certainly in the later years, didn't like him,
would be saying something nice. So at the time,
you know, certainly. certainly was worse and
didn't like him yeah at the time because of some
of the things he was doing not only to other
family members but to myself and um you know
so but such is life yeah yeah and how did you
you carry all of this experience going forward
like was this in the back of your mind when move
back to colorado you're still working like or
is this something that you just locked away and
you didn't think about The way life was then,
I mean, opening these doors today, but back then
we just put it in a box and just put it away.
And why even talk about it? So my mom moved out
here, and she lived out here 10, 20, 30, 40 years,
and none of her friends knew. what happened um
you know she never said i never told them and
um it was just the way life was back then most
people have no idea the cross people carry through
life yeah um they just see him on the surface
and that's just what they believe it was um a
tough tough time but back then the church and
society as a whole was, hey, you stayed together.
This was your family. It would have been nice
had there been some men's group that could have
been involved and maybe got my dad to change
or have some accountability, but that wasn't
the way it was back then. Your problems in your
house stayed in your house, and you didn't share
those problems with someone else, whatever they
were, unfortunately. Do you think it did? Do
you think it did impact the rest of your life,
and how did it do that following those years?
Well, obviously, everything impacts us. So I
joined a number of different men's groups at
our church. Because of what had happened, I was
very concerned about getting married. But being
a young guy, geez, I wanted to be married. There
is some benefits there. Sort of the way life
is. And so, but having kids, I was very, very
concerned about having kids. And my wife and
I, we were married seven years before we thought
maybe we could overcome some challenges and have
a child. And we did. We were blessed with one
child. And, you know, sometimes you think, how
does life? How did these things happen? How are
opportunities given and not? And those are the
ones when you get to be a little older and reflect
on life, you realize someone's actually looking
out for you because so many bad things could
have happened so easily and for whatever reason
they didn't. And there's so many things. So back
then, On cars, you put new tires on a car. Back
then, we didn't buy new tires. We bought recaps.
And if your recap tire lasted a year, hey, it
was a good one. And often the recap would come
off. You might get a blowout. All types of bad
things happened. And, you know, my old Mustang,
it didn't have seatbelts. We didn't drive with
seatbelts back then. It is just amazing that
nothing really bad happened to myself or my wife.
And it certainly could have. And so when you
reflect on life, you see that, geez, somebody,
and it wasn't just my choices, somebody was opening
doors for me and allowing things to happen. And
those are things you see differently when you
get older. When you're younger and you're in
survival mode, it's hard to actually get much
perspective because you're just trying to survive
the minute. You're just trying to make it through
right now. So different time. I just know that
when I left home, my folks were thinking I should
have joined the military. But I felt I'd put
my 18 years in and there was no way was I going
into the military. I just couldn't do it. Maybe
as an officer I would have. Yeah, but never in
combat. Oh, well, never as enlisted. So another
thing that people don't realize about the military,
at least when I was in the military, because
I was enlisted and I graduated high school, they
did have school counselors. The school counselors
were for the officer's kids. So if you were an
officer and you had kids, the thinking was all
the officer's kids are going to college. You're
enlisted. you were going to go get a job. It
was a total different way of thinking and looking
at things. And even though I graduated high school,
but I knew I was smarter than a lot of those
other people. And back then I felt I wanted to
be a physician, a doctor. But that wasn't in
the cards because I didn't have any support to
help me with that. It was life. There's nothing
to complain about. It's just the way life was.
Were you ever worried you were going to become
like your dad? I was majorly concerned, and it
was on the top of my mind, and I certainly did
not want to let that happen. So something you
think about often was that I wasn't going to
go down that road. And so I didn't want to be
like... I didn't want to be like that. I didn't
want to fall into that rut. And so I stayed,
you know, I really tried to make sure I didn't.
And like I said, not perfect, but in reflecting
back, I can't see any time that I did any of
those things. You know, I certainly wasn't physically
abusive to any of my kids or my one child, and
I certainly wasn't physically abusive. to my
wife but you might talk to her and might say
i was mentally i don't know you know playing
mind games i don't know i don't think so i tried
to be a decent person but i'll tell you what
it's tough yeah not every day is a sunny day
yeah for any of us so yeah did did you ever find
someone as a father figure or mentor that showed
you maybe a different way of doing things I think
we all find people that are friends. So a lot
of our friends early on were older people. And
I did have a really good friend. His name was
Grady. And though I was always handy with cars
and I could do things, he actually owned a few
gas stations, service stations. And back then,
gas stations just didn't... pump gas and sell
uh bread eggs and milk and all that other stuff
back then service stations you brought your car
in because most of the cars were old and you
know they all need something they fixed them
there and so he owned a few and he he was pretty
skilled and he taught me a lot of things and
I thought he was a good guy and so him and I
bought some cars together him and I guy him and
I did some business things together and he was
the age he's the age of what my dad would have
been you know he's passed at this point but he
was a good guy and him and I had a lot of good
experience and did a lot of good things and I
had some other older guys that we did some things
with and um From my standpoint, I thought it
was good. And, you know, see how life evolves
for all of us. Yeah, yeah. And how did you end
up going from 19 -year -old kid is living in
Denver. You had your apartment. Your mom moved
out. And then at some point you start a business
or learned how to do business. So what I did
is, like I said, I was always one of those type
of people that could do things. People, so I'll
give a perspective on work. The people today,
and I shouldn't characterize everyone, but a
lot of people today, what they look at a job.
as something they have to do and what they want
to do is more vacation time or more time away
doing their own. So for me, what I saw as my
job was more my lifestyle. So what I would do
is when I was actually working, though I started
in mechanics, and the reason why I did that was
I was a high school graduate. Most mechanics
back then were not. I thought, shoot, if they
can work on cars, I'm a high school graduate.
I can do at least what they do or better. That
was the thinking, my mindset back then. And it
served me well. What I wanted to do is I wanted
to get into, I was good with soldering and I
was good with electronics. No formal training
that I had. But I could take things apart, see
what was wrong and fix them. Um, a lot of things
were just by visual cause you know, the things
were soldered poorly or, you know, the workmanship
was poor, but I did fix a number of things. Um,
and so I wanted to do that. So I want, I knew
being a mechanic all your life is a hard job.
And so what I did is, is after my mom moved out
here and because my dad died active military,
uh, and I still had my ID card, I had it for
a few years. So for health, so when I got hurt,
various things happened to me. I actually went
to a military hospital, and they patched me up
there, even though I was living on my own. I
went to a trade school here in Colorado, and
it was called Denver Institute of Technology.
They're no longer around, but they were over
there off about Evans and Tejon. They had a facility
there. And back then they weren't called computer
techs, they were called electronic technicians.
And what you did there is you actually fixed
anything that, so it would be like TVs, VCRs,
cassette recorders, radios, any of those things.
And one of the things with me, because I had
like mechanical experience and I knew how to
solder and look at things, I could excel at that,
and I did very well. And so like my first real,
I'll say real paying job, is I worked at AT &T
as an electronics technician. And so, but remember,
I was one of those that always had more than
one job. And so there was a small computer company
called Computer System Dynamics that I ran into
that just was a startup. They had four owners.
And I was like employee one. And so I was their
computer technician, fixing computers. So it's
changed today. Back then, computers, what was
expensive was the hardware. The software was
low cost. So when you bought hardware, the way
that they sold it back then was whatever the
cost of it was. So if it cost $1 ,000, you sold
it typically at least to... You'd try to get
three times. So if you paid $1 ,000, you'd sell
it for $3 ,000. That isn't where it's at today.
The margins today is cost plus. So if you bought
it for $1 ,000, you might be able to get 10%,
might be able to get $100, maybe $1 ,100 you
sell it for. So anyways, so I worked there, and
they flew me around to fix computers. And what
I would do is I'd go out there with my soldering
iron. I'd go out there, my oscilloscope, my vacuum
tube, voltmeter, and a handful of tools. And
I would fix circuit boards. I would fix power
supplies. It was component -level troubleshooting.
And what I found pretty quickly was the same
components are the ones that typically fail.
And so to fix the first one might have taken
a while. But if it was the same board to fix
the second one, I was quick. You know, like 15
minutes, where the first one might have taken
a few hours. And because I had done so many,
you know, a lot of people thought I was really
good. Anyways, long story short on that, because
I was employee one, that company probably had
75 employees at one time. And like in a lot of
small companies, owners get greedy. And owners
got greedy and tried to force one owner out.
So there's four owners, two in Salt Lake, two
in Colorado. So the two in Salt Lake, they spun
off and did their own thing. They broke with
the company here in Colorado, so obviously I
was here. So there was two owners here. For whatever
reason, one owner thought he was the smarter
one or whatever, so he kicked the other owner
out. And they do that in small companies, by
the way. They manipulate the stock and a number
of other things. And because I was in that company,
and, you know, cash flow is always tough. I took
a lot of my salary as stock. And at the time,
it seemed like it was a smart thing to do. But
in small companies, if it's not a publicly held
company, what you have in stock isn't even worth
the paper it's printed on. So anyways, at the
time, I probably owned, I don't know, I'll say
10 % of the company because they were using my
money. And so the two owners, one owner wanted
the other out. I thought it was unfair. I made
a big stink about it. We probably had 25, 30
employees. And the one owner said, well, if that's
the way you feel, you're gone too. Okay. Hey,
so I left. And so my wife, Joan, was working.
At the time, she was working at AT &T. And so
even though I was working at AT &T full -time
and working at this computer company also full
-time. 80 hours a week. Yeah. What I did is I
quit AT &T when my wife went there. Got a job
there. And I went to work for the computer company
working more hours. And so that's why I was more
like 60 to 80 hours at that company. And then
I had like a side thing that I did with my friend
Grady doing car stuff on weekends. And so what
happened was when the two of them split, I made
a stink, like I said. So that guy was fired.
And so I said, well, geez. What do the people
there know? They don't know anything because
I was the, you know, employee one. And I was
the guy that, you know, I'll say to myself, I
knew everything, you know. So I thought. But
I said to the other guy, hey, why don't we start
our own company? All those things, all those
installations and all those repairs at those
sites, those were all the things I did. It wasn't
they did. And we worked at a lot of big companies
here in Denver. They were our account. And so
what I did is, with him and I, we formed a company.
He was 60 % owner. I was 40. We probably got
up to, I don't know, 15 employees. And where
we set up our office was right where that other
company had been in the same business park. And
so, because it was close, you know, it was a
good location off of 71st and Broadway is where
we were. And so we were there for a number of
years. Things were good. Our business was good.
I was making good money. You know, I always have
my house paid off, all our cars paid off type
stuff. I'd never owned a new car. I'd always
drove old cars because, hey, and so did my wife.
And so I said, so things were good for us, making
good money. And for whatever reason, my partner,
his name was George, for whatever reason, he
thought, hey, he should have all this. And that
business, our run rate back then, we were probably
doing maybe a million five a year. This isn't
huge money. But this was in the 80s. It was good
money. And so he just told me, he said, hey,
I had like a meeting with all the employees.
And he says, hey, I'm just letting you know I'm
letting Bob go. And he's just an employee. He's
not an owner. I was like, what? And I mean, it
was. traumatic to say the least because geez
what the heck here um so um went home didn't
say anything to Joan that day the next day I
said geez you know what happened to me yesterday
and she was now she was working and we're the
type of very conservative in how we live our
life we always lived on only one of ours paycheck
the other one we always saved and so Joan when
she was there at AT &T you could save 10 % of
your salary. And when you save 10 % of your salary,
the company matched another 10%, and it was called
ESOPs. Another one of those, even though it was
a big company, and you think a big company owning
all their stock is great, another one of those
things that didn't work out so great. I'll tell
you about that later. Anyways, so what happened
was, my partner George, probably his best friend,
and he was 10 years older than me, George. So
at the time I was 35, George was probably 45.
His best friend was named Lloyd, a really nice
guy. He had his own business also in town, did
a printer, more printer stuff, not really computer.
And Lloyd called me and he says, you know, what
George did to you was dirty. And he says, that
wasn't right. And he says, And this was maybe
like three days later. He says, I'm just not
feeling good about this, and I just can't sit
back. And he says, I'm going to pay for you to
go talk to our corporate attorney. And I'll tell
you what, for someone to go out and do that for
you, especially with George's friend, not mine,
and I'm thinking, geez, what am I going to do?
These are the little things that you see God
is looking out for you. At the time, I thought,
boy, am I a lucky guy. But when you reflect back
on life, that's just too coincidental. People
just don't do that. Someone was thumping on him,
you need to do this, and go do this for Bob.
Anyways, he set me up with his attorney. His
attorney's name was Jules Orenstein. Put a name.
And talked to him a few times. He said, you know,
And I went over all the facts up front. He says,
if you want to go to trial on this, I'm sure
they'll go to trial. You're going to spend a
lot of money, but I'm sure we can win this. And
so, you know, back in that time. And so what
I did is I went off and did my own thing. I started
another computer company. And my computer company
I started was ProTech Computer Systems. And it's
still in operation today. I don't. work there
and I don't own anything there, but it's still
there today. And I started that by myself in
the house, my house, my basement. One of my guys
that worked with me at the other company, he
quit that company and that company's name was
Phoenix. He quit, came to work with me. He was
like my employee one. He was going to school.
And what we did was is because I was the guy
that sold all the service contracts. I was the
guy when there was a problem, I fixed things.
So what I did is I went to all the customers
from the company that I started with my friend
George, and I said, hey, George forced me out.
If you want to stay with him, that's up to you.
If you want to come with me, just come with me.
I'm not going to be a lower price because I need
to make money. This needs to be a professional
relationship where it needs to be win -win, not
only for you, but for me. I'm just starting off,
but I'm letting you know that, hey, if you do
this, I'll keep things going for you. And so
I had a few companies jump ship right away. The
majority of them, they didn't want to go with
me because they thought, geez, what's going to
happen? But what made sense was as time went
on and they had a computer problem, they'd call
me. And I'd say, well, geez, I'm not going to
come over and fix their mess. If you want to
sign up with me, I'll fix it. But you're going
to have to be working with me. And probably,
I'm not going to say every customer, but I would
certainly say 90 % of them left him and went
to work with me. Anyways, within three years,
he went out of business. And obviously, my business
was running. And we did go to court. At the time,
I probably spent I don't know, probably $60 ,000.
It doesn't sound like a big number today, but
back then it was a big number. And he probably
got a high -priced attorney, Denver attorney.
He probably spent closer to $100 ,000. I won
a judgment, and that's another thing when you
win a judgment. And my judgment was 40 % of the
company. They valued the company at the time.
He ejected me not at the time. of the of this
case and it was valued at that 360 ,000 he owed
me at the time of this of our case when we went
there he didn't have 360 ,000 in assets or anything
and so um our attorney put a lien on his house
and started you know clamping down on him on
a few things and I told and you know obviously
we won not a little but big time and so his wife
was all upset called and threatened us. I mean,
a whole list of things. Anyways, he finally called
me and he says, hey, I really want to put this
behind us. Sorry for what I did. And long story
short, I mean, this was really a disaster and
a mess. But long story short, I said, hey, listen,
I'm not looking to drive you out of business.
What do you think you want to do? And so he said,
hey, I'll pay you $100 ,000. I wanted to make
it sort of painful for him. And, um, anyways,
uh, he paid me a hundred thousand over, uh, maybe
six months. And I did get the, he wrote checks
that weren't good at the time, you know, and
I call him, Hey, when's the check going to be
good? Otherwise, you know, but to wrap that up
and that chapter up, did get my money from him.
And shortly after he went bankrupt. And so I
don't know. You know, that was his problem. But
my business, when I left it, our run rate was
a little over $6 million a year. So I've been
retired now three years. I had about 12 employees.
And with my employees, what I did is when I left,
I signed my stock over to the employees. and
I left them some money in the company so they
could still be successful. And the business is
still running today, and I hope things are good
for them. Once in a while they call me and I
go over and help them out. I don't get compensated
at all. I just do it, you know, as goodwill.
And, you know, I hope things stay well. I mean,
it's a tough time right now to be in business,
and living in Colorado, it's a tough time. It's
not really a pro -business climate here in Colorado
either. So that's tough. But, you know, we all
got challenges. And all I'll say is I've had
one, two, three, four. So that Phoenix, I started
with that partner, George, after that. You know,
I started ProTech on my own. It was a few years
later. Had that since 1989. And I left three
years ago. So I'd be 2022 was my last. day there.
Um, and I was the sole owner, no partner, just,
you know, myself and fronted cashflow to everything
myself. Um, then my, I also, uh, had a business
as an auto wrecking business to me. That was
a nice business to have really, you know, different
clientele, but you know, a nice business, really
all cash business. I did some internet selling
bandwidth, did that. with a friend, and that
was good. We didn't do that really to make money,
but just do some things. And so, you know, that's
essentially, you know, where life has been and
where life has taken me. And like I said, when
I was probably maybe about 40 when I bought my
first, when I bought this house, I was... 39,
I had it built. And so when I turned 40, you
start reflecting on life and I had a bunch of
stuff. And I said, why do I have all this? And
you become slaves to your stuff. So when you
have a bunch of stuff, you know, you're worried
about, you know, the upkeep, the maintenance,
the taxes, insurance, just a bunch of stuff.
And we had rental property too. And, you know,
it just, so I make your life simple, get rid
of all that. And Then you sort of get a, you
look inward and you look at what's God, what's
your role or what's your relationship with, you
know, God. And then I think that's when you sort
of simplify your life and you sort of look. And
you sort of come to some realizations that a
lot of this stuff, yeah, it's fun to have and
have some good, but it's just really a boat anchor
to you. And it's a ball and chain in your life.
And do you really need or want that? Does that
really make you more happy? So, and what, you
know, some of the fruits of the Spirit is, you
know, joy. We want peace in our life and we want
joy. And those are things that... You can work
on when you're not running in the rat race. Yeah.
How did Joan feel about just the amount you were
working throughout all of your career? I mean,
I guess she was working as well, but you were
working really long hours. So one of the things
that they say equally yoked on things. So one
of the things that people. sometimes don't really
see or understand is if you have a lot of money
and you have a lot of time, chances are you're
going to get in trouble, bad things. You're going
to think, you know, you see all these people
with money, some of the poor choices they make.
For me, because I was busy doing all these things,
busy working and providing for family, I didn't
have a lot of time to try to get into any. So
I think it was okay. Did Joan like it? I think
she was okay with it. It was just the way life
was. We took vacations. My first vacation I took,
we were probably later 20s. We had our house
paid off. We had no car payments. And here's
what it is. That's our first vacation we took.
You know, my neighbors all had second mortgages
on their house, all high car payments. That wasn't
the way it was for us. I bought our first new
car in probably 1996. Joan would probably remember.
And it was a Toyota 4Runner and paid cash for
it. I've never bought a car that I've not paid
cash. And, you know, I do have a car that's,
you know, I have a Lamborghini. And mine's, you
know, one of the 12 -cylinder ones, so they're
not the low -end cars to buy. And every car I
ever bought, I always paid cash. I put my daughter
through med school, paid money for that, cash
for that. So all those things, I think. God gave
me those opportunities. And I think one of the
things God taught me early on was if you're making
payments on something, you're a slave to that
item. And if you're making payments on it, whatever
the purchase price was that you paid for it,
that's not what you're paying. That's not the
amount you're paying for it. And so you hear
some evangelists, as I'll call them, like Dave
Ramsey and some others that talk about, hey,
get out from under debt. it's a mindset, and
it really is. And like I told you early on, I
lived like a poor person, lived in my car. I
took free showers at hotels. I bought my clothes
at Goodwill. You've been to my house and you've
sort of seen me, and I'm not a flashy dresser.
I don't wear a lot of fancy clothes. And I'm
okay with that. And what happens is the only
one who cares what type of car you drive is you.
No one else cares. No one else cares what year
it is. They might walk up and say, cool car,
but really they don't care because that's not
theirs. The only one who cares or worries about
that or the house you're living in or whatever
is you, and you might think it's a big deal,
but you know what? It's just stuff. When you're
gone, like you said, with those poker chips,
you just push them in and away you go. And when
you're called, you don't know what day that's
going to be either. So lots of, you know, life
is what you make it. I did throw out that I had,
there was five siblings in my family. Of the
five, my sister was married for less than a year,
never got remarried. She never had any kids.
And I told you my three brothers, they've already
passed. They all passed very early in life. My
brother that was two years younger than me, he
passed at age 32. My brother that was 10, and
he died here in Aurora. It was tragic. He was
shot and killed with a knife. My brother that
was, and him, his name was David, that was lifestyle.
And for what it was worth, And the police never
found who did that. And at the time when he passed,
you know, paid for his funeral, paid for a lot
of things back then. The police just said, well,
he was a bartender and he was doing drugs. And,
you know, hey, even though he was killed in his
own place, they did nothing. My next brother
that died was my youngest brother, 10 years younger
than me. He died right about the age of 40, never
married either. He died in a plane crash. Had
his girlfriend in the plane with him. He was
a heavy drinker at his place where he worked.
He had a refrigerator with a beer tap on it.
And just as their lifestyle. And I used to talk
to them about it, but when you're an adult, you
make your own choices. So he died in a plane
crash. He was a pilot. You know, that wasn't
what his job was, but he had an airplane with
a pilot. Unfortunately, he passed and so did
his girlfriend that was in the plane. And that
was sort of a mess here in Denver because he
lived in Denver and it was just a mess. His name
was Jim. My third brother was my middle, he was
two brothers down from me, Mike, and he died.
He felt life was meaningless in a lot of ways.
I actually had him work for me for a short while,
maybe about a year or so. His perspective on
life was not straight. He felt really entitled
on a lot of things. Anyways, long story short,
he died at about the age of 50, maybe 55, and
what he did is he committed suicide. But because
he was so dead set against guns, he did it with
a knife, killed himself with a knife. Pretty
brutal. So, you know, you pay for funerals. I
paid for three funerals. I paid for a private
investigator on my brother with the plane crash.
It was, you know, it's life. Everyone has a story.
Nothing's easy. It's how we see things. You know,
with those things happening to my brother, I
look back today and reflect and say, even though
when my dad told me to leave, I thought it was
so terrible, really it was the best thing he
did for me. Yeah. Because he saved my life. Had
I been there when he was shooting people, chances
are I'd be dead today. Chances are I wouldn't
have had the life I have. And those are the things
that all people should take time and reflect
and reflect on the good things in life. The bad
things, you know, we've been told different things.
Maybe those are given to us, put in our life
to show us how good the good things really are.
And so what we need to do is we need to be thankful
for the blessings we've all been given. Yeah,
I think you say a lot that that's the way things
are, but I think it also overlooks the fact that
you're very resilient, I think. I think a lot
of the stuff that you went through could have
been very traumatic, probably was, and had a
lot of impact on your life. And I think we just
see a lot of young people who might have anxiety
or are scared of certain things and think that
the world sucks, right? And you could have had
so many times in your life where you could have
said the world sucks. It's not my fault. Cause
it wasn't your fault. None of it was, it was
all just life. What happens is called life. Yeah.
You, you could have at any point taken the position
of being a victim and just allowed it to, to
take over your life. And somehow you did it,
which I think is very impressive and is underspoken
in the way you talk about it. Well, like I said,
Life is different today. You hear the young people
say they have anxiety over this. That wasn't
a word that was used very often when I was growing
up. Deal with it. And bad things happened not
only to me but to other people, other people
in school and ours where we were at. And it was,
I'll just. A little side note, when I lived in
New Jersey, I remember my dad was in the military.
He was at Otis Air Force Base. And I was in elementary
school, went there until I was sixth grade. In
sixth grade, we moved then to North Dakota. But
I remember someone died at the Vietnam War. I
don't remember who it was, but it was a kid that
was in my class in school. And I think they had
three kids. Three... I don't remember, three
kids. I know one of them was a boy. And someone
died in a family where it sort of makes sense
it was the dad. I think it was the mom that died.
And the reason why I say that was the three kids
got split up and they got put into someone else's
houses and they all of a sudden were living in
a different family. And it wasn't adoption and
they weren't living with family. They were just
living in someone else's house. And that's the
way things were done back then. It's such a different
time and the way things are. And I never knew
what happened to any of those kids because when
you're in the military and constantly moving,
you know, your friends are just friends for a
few years. But I know that on that situation.
Whatever happened to them, if the parents or
grandparents or whatever, but, you know. It's
just a different time. And there wasn't any,
well, I got anxiety, I have to counseling. We
didn't have any of that. And if someone died,
and I remember in high school someone did die,
they went on the intercom and they said whatever
it was, David died in a car accident or died
in this or whatever it was. They just gave it
a high level, and we're no longer going to see
him in school. That's all that was said. There
was no crying. There was no one, we're going
to send, everyone's going to sign a sympathy
card. We're going to do a vigil. It was just
amazing how things were then as to how it is
today. Yeah, and of course, I don't want to gloss
over that. There is some value in people being
able to be open about their emotions, be vulnerable,
get therapy, and take all of these things in
stride. But there is some portion of it where
humanity in general just is resilient and some
things don't always need to be dealt with. Some
things can be taken, take the hit, and then go
forward. If you look at what I always reflected
on and thought, we all think whatever we're going
through in life is difficult. We all do, and
it's just human nature. But if you look at the
guy next to you and you see that... the cross
he's carrying, you think, geez, maybe it isn't
so bad. And you might say, oh, geez, Bob, look
how bad yours was. But I used to reflect back
then, look at the Holocaust survivors. Choke
up a little bit on some of that. Those people
had horrendous, and it wasn't just something
that happened for this moment or something that
happened for a day. It went on for a long time.
years they suffered family members killed and
so my wife and i we've been to germany and been
to dachau and saw some of that and it's just
amazing how those people and you don't hear them
uh shouting out or getting angry or anything
and it's because like i told you at the time
um those were bad things that happened but you
don't want to ruin anyone else's life, so you
just kept it to yourself. And those people had
quite the cross to carry. And what we heard when
we went to Germany from these people, it's just
amazing how everyone in Germany knew what was
going on. And we think on concentration camps,
there's only a handful that we think about, but
there was thousands of concentration camps. They
didn't like Jewish criminals, et cetera, were
involved in these. So it's really a horrendous
time in society. And if we can learn anything
from it, we can learn that, hey, we're all just
people. We're all on this journey. None of us
are better than anyone else. What we need to
try to do is love and care for one another. And
that is what Jesus preached the whole time he
was here on this earth. When you think back at
a high level, at the life you've lived, and I
guess seeing the younger generation, modern context,
what are some unexpected lessons that you think
can be reapplied for the youth today? So back
when we were younger, we sort of made our own
fun times. So if we had a ball, it sounds so
crazy, if we had a ball, that's all we had, and
we'd all play with that ball. Kick it, throw
it, you know, hit it up in the air. And we didn't
all have baseball bats. Maybe it would be a stick
or whatever. Today, we have too much, and the
kids are too much, in my opinion, in their phones,
their iPads, as opposed to interacting more with
each other. Obviously, like I said, I have one
daughter. She's now 41. We have two grandkids,
two of her kids. One of them is 10, and the other
is 6, 9, 9 and 6. She hasn't turned 10 yet. Going
to do that soon. And what I see as parents, so
from my standpoint, we have to raise our children
to the best of our ability. I think parents try
that. Maybe they're not perfect at it. But then
again, as grandparents, we also need to take
time and try to invest in our grandkids and try
to teach them some things that they need to do
and try to guide them on the path. And so whenever
we're out there where we see it's of real value
to be a church, a consistent churchgoer, we feel
bad if we don't miss church, is what I'm going
to say. So when we're back... visiting with our
daughter and her family, they don't take the
same approach, same value in going to services
as we do. And so we always take the grandkids
with us to church. And we're trying to get them
to see that, but young people don't. It's hard
for them, and it would be nice if they would.
And though we're Catholic, like we saw, Jesus
was Jewish. And St. Paul, he was also Jewish,
but he was not the same Jewish faith as Jesus.
There was Zealots. There was Sadducees. There
was Pharisees. There was the Essenes. And John
the Baptist, being the way he lived his life,
he was probably of the Essene sect. So you look
at all these different things, and I do think
people need to look and, Try to understand that
there is something bigger than just them in this
place. We call earth. Yeah. We have a tradition
on the podcast where at the end of the episode,
we ask the guest to participate in a carrots
and sticks challenge. And as you know, the podcast
is about living courageously. And so the guest
usually challenges themselves with a one to two
week challenge, which is about living courageously.
And that can be personal for yourself. It can
be more broad. Maybe it's something you're avoiding.
And then the stick is your own self -chosen punishment
if you don't do it. And you can have some time
to think if you want as well. I had a guest on
who was like, I've been avoiding going to the
gym for the past year and I'm starting to do
that now. So he went three times for the following
two weeks. Go to the gym. Yeah. But that's just
like that can be impersonal. And then for some
people, it's very personal. Like with one guest,
we had her talk about how she's mean to herself.
And her challenge was to pay attention to those
moments when she has negative self -talk and
write them down. Yeah. Good. So based on a challenge,
I think what I'm going to try and do is I have
a number of friends. that I haven't seen or visited
with in some period of time. And what happens
is, even though you're older and retired, you
think, oh, I have all this time on my hands.
But instead of getting things done quicker, for
whatever reason, it seems to take longer. They
always say, give busy people a task and they
can get it done. So what my challenge is, is
I'm going to try and visit some friends. that
I've known their spouse has passed or other family
members has passed, just to let them know I care.
We do send cards, but I do feel that, just based
on our little short talk here, I'm certainly
going to do that. And this is a good time of
year, and I have reached out to some of them
already. But I do think we just need to share
time. And that is probably the biggest gift you
can give to anyone is some of your time. So that's
what I'm going to try and do. I've belonged to
a number of different men's groups. And I do
think that's a good challenge for guys to do.
And what it does is it helps keep you on the
straight path. And it's really easy to get off
the path because life gets messy. And life gets
messy, our marriages, our relationships get messy.
And I do think if you can stay on the right path,
and men's groups do help you do that, and they
do challenge you to stay there. So I'm going
to say that's what I got. Okay. And what does
that look like, a few phone calls, or does that
look like planning out a date? Oh, I'm going
to have a phone call. Okay, so ours look like
I'm certainly going to reach out to these people.
I have probably like three or four that I know
of for sure. And I'm going to not only phone
calls, but I'm going to meet them for lunch and
let them know that, hey, I care. And, you know,
hey, if you need something, give me a call. And
that way I can stay in touch with them. And it
is things we need to do more to one another and
for one another. And it's things for whatever
reason, we just don't. We just get comfortable.
It's just. It's just surprising how life is,
you know. So just in wrapping, summing up, when
I was younger, I used to think, geez, when I'm
20 or 21, life's going to be so much simpler
for me. And then there was a whole list of other
problems. And I did go to college, and I did
get a four -year degree. I did that at night
school. My wife and I did it together. I graduated
at age 40 with that. But I used to think life
was so much simpler. Then I thought, well, maybe
when I get to be 40, it's got to be easier. Well,
then maybe once my daughter is out of the house.
It's got to be. But for some reason, life never
gets what I will call simple. Life is what I
will call messy, and there is always challenges
day to day. So not every day is a sunny day,
even though some are and enjoy those. And those
are the days that are blessings and make the
most of them. But even at my age, I'll be 70
here in a few months, we're all faced with challenges.
And the challenges you're faced when you get
older is generally health challenges. And it's
surprising how those challenges... where you
never thought of them when you were younger,
is now challenges that are real in your life
today that require attention. But I'm going to
certainly reach out to those friends. I have
one whose name is Craig, one whose name is Sig.
We have a lady friend named Marge that her husband
had passed. Craig, his wife, had passed. And
make sure and let them know that I care. Spend
time with them. That's awesome. What is your
stick, your self -chosen punishment if you don't
do it? I'm a driven person, so it's going to
happen. You could say whatever. But it won't
matter because you'll do it. I'm going to matter
and do it. I don't know. I'll say penance. I'll
say do the rosary. But, you know, I don't consider
that penance because my wife and I, we try to
do that daily anyways. But we'll say that. Okay.
Cool. Well, where can people find you if you
want to be found, if you want people to talk
to you? Oh, you mean on, give them an email address?
Yeah, social, email. I am on Facebook, but I
don't post much. I'm probably the wrong generation
for that. I am in some car hobbies. And so if
you want to find me, I could give you my email
address. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay.
My email address is pretty simple. It's Bob,
B -O -B. And my domain name for the email is
one I use for my company, ProTech. So it is P
-R -O -T -S -Y -S .com. So Bob at the first four
characters in the word ProTech, that's P -R -O
-T, the first three in the word system, altogether
.com. So Bob at ProTechSys .com. Awesome. So,
yeah, hopefully. And back in the day when you
had computers way back when, domain names couldn't
be greater than the seven characters. They all
had to be a dot com. And so they were all, today
it's all changed, but I've had that email address
since 1989. Dang. Yeah, so that's what it is.
So if someone wants to reach out to me, and anyone
who does, I'll certainly respond. Awesome. Well,
thanks for coming on, Bob. This has been great.
Thank you. Yeah, thanks for coming by and visiting.