WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode

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of the C &S podcast. Our guest today is yours

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truly and today we're going to be talking about

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11 lessons from the first 10 podcast episodes.

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I started this podcast with the intention of

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getting to learn from experienced, successful,

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and wiser people than myself, and be able to

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pull lessons and gain wisdom at a much faster

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pace than I would otherwise. So we're going to

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go over 11 lessons, some insights that we can

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pull from each guest, and I hope that you find

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it useful. Let's dive right into it. David Brown

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talked about this idea that I call the zigzag

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path. And as people who want to achieve stuff,

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who want to do well in life, who want to go far,

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there's this tendency to apply math principles

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to our goals. Obviously, the fastest way from

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point A to point B is a straight line. And so

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we go, okay. I want to be here in 10 years or

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whatever it might be. And we assume it's going

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to look like a straight line. And in David Brown's

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story, he talked about he graduated from his

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degree in Canada. And this random guy from Florida

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offered him a job at this ambulance dispatching

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company. He didn't really have a plan for how

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he wanted to. get to where he wanted. He wanted

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to start a business at some point and he just

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ends up going over there with no plan, no vision,

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no idea of what's to come next. He jumped off

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the mountain without a parachute. And it's just

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so easy to get wrapped up in this idea of knowing

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what's next, of planning out our entire lives

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and just following it step by step like some

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kind of robot. And it leaks into the way we think

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about self -development, self -improvement, because

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it's like, oh, 1 % better every day. I'm going

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to compound my habits, my daily habits, and over

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time I'll achieve my goals. But it almost is

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worse to be attached to this idea because we

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lose that consistency once and now we're like,

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we've lost the progress. It's over. Like, I didn't

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go to the gym this week. I didn't do well at

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my job. I didn't deliver how I was supposed to.

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And in every journey to success, including David

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Brown's, which is so salient, is that there's

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an element of ups and downs and going the wrong

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direction and then going back into the right

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direction. Yeah, like, for me personally, this

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idea is... is so important because I really don't

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know what's next for me. Like I have my, my job

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is a software engineer and I know a lot about

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software engineering, but I don't know where

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that will get me in 20 years. And I've made some

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investments in real estate and now I know a lot

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about real estate and I don't know where that's

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going to get me. And I have this podcast where

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I'm meeting cool people and learning things and

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enjoying it and I don't know where this is going

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to take me maybe nowhere but it's like it's like

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the Steve Jobs quote where he talks about none

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of the none of the points make sense looking

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forward they only make sense in reverse and in

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reverse it looks like it was all planned out

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it looks like there was this grand master plan

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this grand vision when in reality it was just

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a series of decisions that seemingly unconnected

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became this larger vision for the life and so

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I don't know I'm I'm currently thinking a lot

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about this because it's like I have some idea

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of where I want to end up but it's it's not very

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clear how I'm going to get there and every step

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I take I take with the sense of This looks like

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it'll get me closer. I don't know. It might take

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me the wrong way and it might not pan out the

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way I thought it did. But yeah, the progression

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in life is never linear. It's a convolution of

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wrong lefts and wrong rights. We don't have a

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map of where we're going. Number two, Eddie Connors

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talks about this idea about being pleasantly

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persistent. I see so many people who have an

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aversion to coming off as needy or desperate

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or like trying too hard or like you're doing

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too much. There's this idea that keeps popping

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up, which is like, it looks bad to try hard at

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things. And the reason I think this is such a

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good addendum to that is because it takes off.

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some of the weight of of persisting like being

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pleasantly persistent and so it could be something

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like I want this job and they're not responding

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to me I've applied I've done all the things and

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you want to give up and not come off as needy

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or desperate but there's there's power in just

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following up sending that email that you need

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to send and not in like a oh you didn't respond

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to me way it's like a very pleasant like a reminder

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that I'm here and I just think that when it comes

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to getting something that we want we don't want

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to come off as needy or insecure or desperate

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but it's like a good example is like let's say

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I'm insecure about my hair for some reason. And

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it's almost more insecure for me to try to hide

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the fact that I'm insecure about my hair than

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to just be like, yeah, I'm slightly insecure

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about my hair. Like maybe I'm balding. Maybe

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my hair doesn't look the best. I'm not actually

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balding, but it's like owning that insecurity.

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is what not being insecure is rather than trying

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to hide it, trying to abstract it away. And as

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another thing that I was thinking about, it's

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like whenever we're trying to not come off as

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needy or desperate or like I want something,

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it makes people feel as though they're operating

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from scarcity, right? And sometimes you are operating

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from scarcity and that's okay. And owning that

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and being able to be pleasantly persistent is

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the only way to push forward. And it's like if

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I'm offering something of value to someone, let's

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say, again, it is the job or maybe it's a relationship

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or maybe it's whatever other goal I might have.

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If I was actually offering something of value,

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I would be persistent. And the example I give

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is like if I find a hundred dollars on the street

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and I saw it fell out of someone's wallet, I'm

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not going to be scared to then go and chase after

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them and be like, yo, you dropped a hundred dollars

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because I know that that thing is valuable. Like

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there's not going to be a weirdness around me

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being persistent. And so. yeah, when it comes

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to like a job or a relationship, it's like, I

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am offering something of value and it makes sense

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that I would be persistent. And yeah, it's like

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the pleasantness adds a nice air of levity to

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it where, I mean, the way Eddie always does it

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is he's, he's a lovable guy. He's like always

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laughing and having a good time. He'll ask for

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something, and if he doesn't get it, it's not

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like he's depressed about it. He's not down on

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himself. It's just like, oh, well, I got a no.

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I'm closer to a yes, right? And so, yeah, just

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taking this fun, kind, pleasant persistency into

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everything we do, every opportunity we're trying

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to get into is just so important. And I struggle

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with it as well, where it's like, I don't like

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even with this podcast, like sometimes it'll

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take me quite a while to book a guest that I

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want to have on and I'll keep shooting them texts

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or emails. And it's not like I'm like, yo, you

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need to get on the podcast right now. It's just

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like, hey, man, I'm still here. I still want

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to shoot a podcast with you. I think it would

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be great. I think you would love it. I think

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I would love it. I think it'll overall be a great

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experience for the both of us. And just taking

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that in stride. Number three with Kushong Hirapada.

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Kushong talked a lot about this idea of the lonely

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chapter and how there's times in our lives when

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When things are quite lonely, like when you're

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trying to create, go from zero to one, you're

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trying to create something from nothing. And

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the easiest example of that is like a business.

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I have nothing and I'm trying to create something

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that provides value to others in a business setting.

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And the reason it's lonely is not necessarily

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because people aren't supportive or because you

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don't have friends. But it's like when you're

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starting out at something, you're the one who

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cares about it the most. And the only way it's

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going to get anywhere is by you doing the work

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to push it forward. It gets lonely because, yeah,

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no one else is on that path with you. You're

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the one who's driving forward, who's having the

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long nights, who's having the early mornings

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in pursuit of this goal that might not pan out

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to anything. which makes it all the more scary.

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It might not pan out to a single thing. You might

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get literally nothing out of it and it can be

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really lonely and isolating, but it's like acknowledging

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that there will be a lonely chapter makes it

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easier to handle. Like I know that there will

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be a period where other people don't see what

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I'm building, where I'm doing work that no one

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else sees that I'm doing. I'm doing work that

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may not be the right work. I'm learning how to

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fail. I'm pushing forward. And I think Kushong

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embodies this so well in that he's like, there's

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always more that you can do. And there is no

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bar for I've done enough. And that seems like

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it would be slightly depressing but in in the

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sense of I'm working towards something greater

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than myself it's not necessarily depressing because

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it's not depressing because yeah you are in the

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pursuit of this this big thing that you've always

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wanted to do and acknowledging and taking it

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into yourself that you will have tough times

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And you knew that when you started, you knew

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that this is what hard feels like and that's

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okay. And you knew you signed up for this. There's

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a level of happiness that can come from the lonely

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period in which you already knew this is what

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it was going to take. The reason that you're

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going to win is because every single time that

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you push forward every day, every hour of extra

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work that you do, that's the work that no one

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else is willing to do. This is the pain that

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it takes. And the reason you will win is because

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you're willing to deal with the lonely period.

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Number four, I talked with Charles. Charles M.

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Salanga, and he's from Kenya, and he's a motivational

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speaker, and he talked to me about how direction

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matters more than speed. And when I think about

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this, I think about myself and how I always want

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to move fast and get to the next thing and get

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to the next level and progress and push forward.

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There's almost something that you lose when you're

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only focused on getting to the end goal as fast

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as possible. Because when you're in pursuit of

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that thing, you have little wins along the way

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that you ignore because you're trying to get

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there as fast as possible. As humans, psychologically,

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we get so much fulfillment out of every win if

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we focus on it. If we only congratulate ourselves

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on the big win, on the I finally made it, we

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sit there and we have a moment of feeling really

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good about ourselves, maybe a day, and then on

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to the next goal, on to the next one. And so

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I think it reminds me in the times when maybe

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I'm not making progress as fast as I'd like that

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a small progression of little, wins makes you

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a lot happier than one big win. We just want

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it to happen so fast. As soon as you get to the

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end of the goal, the next thing to do is pick

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up the next goal. And so we can never, if we're

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only focused on those big five, 10 year goals,

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most of the time spent on those goals is the

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in -between time. It is that gap between I've

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built a successful business. I've built a great

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family. I've built the physique that I want.

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And almost the entirety of our lives is in those

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gaps in between. It's the Rocky cut scene where

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he's training and he's waking up early and he's

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got the Rocky theme song. And in the movie, it's

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only, what, 30 seconds, a minute? But in our

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lives, that bit is the majority of the thing.

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And so being able to sit in that and gather little

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wins every day, every week, and then acknowledging

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the work that we're doing and getting some fulfillment

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out of just the journey towards the goal rather

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than the goal itself. And yeah, it's just been

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something really important for me to think about

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appreciating. everything that i've done so far

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and congratulating myself as i get further and

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further and making sure that i don't let it all

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pass me by and number five sarah margalisi talked

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about the unconventional path we talked a lot

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about how you'll never really find the perfect

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thing the perfect job the perfect relationship

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the perfect day the perfect anything like there's

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the way she described it was 80 if 80 of the

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time you're happy with your job then that's that's

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awesome like 80 is great if 20 if it's only 20

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of the time that you feel down about what you're

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doing that's like top to your you've found something

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that you really really enjoy that's one day a

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week out of five there's there's some at least

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maybe in young people, there's some idea of like

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following your passion and like achieving your

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dreams and doing the, do like the thing you love

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and you'll never work a day in your life. And

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I think that's just plain wrong. Like, I don't

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think like from everyone I've talked to, I don't

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think there is a thing that will never feel like

00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:48.710
work. Like the people that turn their hobby into

00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:52.710
Their job often end up hating their hobby because

00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:55.529
they do have to perform every single day on that

00:17:55.529 --> 00:18:01.470
thing. And yeah, it's just being okay with something

00:18:01.470 --> 00:18:04.609
that fulfills you the majority of the time. And

00:18:04.609 --> 00:18:10.809
that might be your corporate career, but often

00:18:10.809 --> 00:18:13.869
it lies in some unconventional path. Like Sarah,

00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:18.509
she wanted to be a rock star. And she dropped

00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:22.710
out of high school. Along the way, she had a

00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:29.009
strong affinity towards growing plants and towards

00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:32.410
knowing a lot about these plants. And so she

00:18:32.410 --> 00:18:35.029
started it out as a side business. Like, I'm

00:18:35.029 --> 00:18:37.549
kind of good at this. I kind of want my main

00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:41.829
thing to be the rock band. But she ended up being

00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:44.349
so good at it that she built an entire company

00:18:44.349 --> 00:18:49.299
out of it. tens of employees and a lot of revenue

00:18:49.299 --> 00:18:54.359
and and at a certain point it was like whoa I

00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.000
actually really like this maybe it is that 80

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.779
% of the time I'm okay with it and that was the

00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:02.000
thing she ended up building and like she still

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.019
does the music stuff as a hobby but this other

00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:09.220
thing with her landscaping company she's able

00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:13.130
to go in create a community of people that enjoy

00:19:13.130 --> 00:19:16.509
it. She's able to make money from it. She is

00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:19.029
able to enjoy it the majority of the time. And

00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:22.029
that's, that's what we should strive for is,

00:19:22.049 --> 00:19:27.170
is that 80, 20%, 80 % of the time I'm satisfied

00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:30.089
with what I'm doing and everybody's got off days.

00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.569
20 % of the time it sucks. And number six with

00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:38.130
Matthew Gear talked about these, these pillars

00:19:38.130 --> 00:19:44.490
of things in our life, our lives that we should

00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:48.170
protect. A few things that we know make us better

00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:50.250
every single day. And for a lot of people that

00:19:50.250 --> 00:19:53.009
might be getting your physical activity in. For

00:19:53.009 --> 00:19:56.130
Matt, it was going to the gym every day. He gets

00:19:56.130 --> 00:20:00.529
his sense of, I'm getting better and I'm working

00:20:00.529 --> 00:20:02.910
at something and I'm getting the endorphins from

00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:05.970
working out. And then it's like our diets and

00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:10.400
making sure that most of the time we're eating

00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.640
good food and fueling our body the way it needs

00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.579
to be fueled. And another pillar might be sleep

00:20:15.579 --> 00:20:19.480
and making sure that I'm getting that eight,

00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:22.319
nine hours of sleep every night. Maybe not every

00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.579
single night, but the majority of nights. And

00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:28.559
so there's these pillars that we know fundamentally

00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.500
make us better. They make us more pleasant to

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:36.640
be around. They make us more healthy. They make

00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:42.140
us feel good. And a lot of times in pursuit of

00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:48.299
a goal, we can sacrifice those things in exchange

00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:53.380
for the metric that we're chasing after. Maybe

00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:56.619
I'm chasing a promotion. Maybe I'm chasing a

00:20:56.619 --> 00:20:58.900
new business I'm starting. Maybe I'm chasing

00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:02.759
I want to be an influencer. Whatever the thing

00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:08.349
might be, if we guard our pillars closely. throughout

00:21:08.349 --> 00:21:12.490
that entire time, it'll make the whole experience

00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:17.650
all the more enjoyable. And there's a level of

00:21:17.650 --> 00:21:21.490
sacrifice that it does take to achieve, but those

00:21:21.490 --> 00:21:25.390
pillars stand there and hold us up while we take

00:21:25.390 --> 00:21:31.309
the pain of rejection or the pain of not performing

00:21:31.309 --> 00:21:33.589
how I want to perform and all of these things

00:21:33.589 --> 00:21:36.170
that come with trying to achieve things. The

00:21:36.170 --> 00:21:38.150
pillars are the thing that we can come back to

00:21:38.150 --> 00:21:41.970
and refuel and take care of ourselves. And at

00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:46.690
a certain point, there's old people that are

00:21:46.690 --> 00:21:49.349
in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, and they're wealthy

00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:52.190
and they're rich and they're successful. And

00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:54.349
they would trade places with you in a heartbeat

00:21:54.349 --> 00:21:58.690
to have the physical capabilities you have, to

00:21:58.690 --> 00:22:02.710
have the energy, to have the good sleep, to have

00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:05.109
the health that they had when they were young.

00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:10.220
That it's something that doesn't have a price

00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:13.200
tag on it. It's invaluable because a billionaire

00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:17.099
like Warren Buffett, who's in his 80s or 90s,

00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:20.460
he would give it all up in a heartbeat to have

00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:22.500
that health. And if you were posed the question,

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:26.400
would you rather have a billion dollars and be

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:31.420
80 and have maybe 10, 20 years left to live?

00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.440
Would you take the billion dollars? I warrant

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.099
most people would say, no, I wouldn't take the

00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:40.400
billion dollars. I know I wouldn't. Like that

00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.319
billion dollars isn't worth all of this time

00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.660
and youth that I have. And so, yeah, it's important

00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:53.559
to guard those pillars very well. And if we fall

00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.900
off of them for a little bit, that's okay. But

00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:00.759
once you lose the youth and the time and the

00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:02.900
energy and the health, you can't get it back.

00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.119
You can, but it's really, really difficult if

00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.079
you've lost those pillars for a really long time.

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.400
With Alex Oxford, we talked about his cancer

00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.119
diagnosis and we talked about how would you live

00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.859
differently if you knew you only had one year

00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:31.240
left to live? And it's something that not, it's

00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:35.230
really hard to think about. Like, it feels as

00:23:35.230 --> 00:23:38.809
though I have a lot of time left. Maybe you watching,

00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:42.730
it might feel that way. Like, I have a lot of

00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:44.829
time left to do the things I want to do. I'm

00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:47.509
just going to put up with whatever I'm putting

00:23:47.509 --> 00:23:50.529
up right now. And I'll eventually do, I'll eventually

00:23:50.529 --> 00:23:52.589
build the business. I'll eventually get in shape.

00:23:52.710 --> 00:23:54.730
I'll eventually get a better relationship with

00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:57.529
my parents. I'll eventually do whatever it might

00:23:57.529 --> 00:24:03.390
be. And there's just this urgency. It's a life

00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:11.450
that's hard to conceptualize. There's a really

00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:16.809
good thing from Sahil Bloom. He talks about in

00:24:16.809 --> 00:24:18.990
his book about when he taught how to talk with

00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:23.890
his friend. And his friend told him or asked

00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.089
him how often he sees his parents. And he said,

00:24:26.230 --> 00:24:30.069
oh, I see them like once a year, twice a year,

00:24:30.190 --> 00:24:34.400
whatever it was. And the friend is like, okay,

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.700
how old are your parents? Oh, they're in their

00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:42.200
60s. And he's like, okay, average lifespan of

00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.599
a human is about 75 years old. And that gives

00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:50.740
you 15 years, two visits each year. You're going

00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:52.559
to see your parents 30 more times before they

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.700
die. And there's, yeah, like, imagine that. 30

00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:03.099
times you'll see your parents before they die.

00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.319
That should give you a sense of urgency of like,

00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:10.980
oh, I need to actually tell the things that I

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:12.720
want to tell to my parents. I need to hang out

00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:14.279
with them. I need to build a better relationship

00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:21.319
with them. And this idea gives me a tension for

00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.779
myself where it's like, partially you do want

00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:28.740
to have this urgency for life. for doing things

00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.640
that you want to do. But there's also, wait,

00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.640
if I'm going to die in a year, would I even pursue

00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:39.299
any of the goals I'm doing? And so there's this

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:43.859
tension between long time horizons of delaying

00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:47.240
gratification and delaying the things I really

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.960
want so that I can have them in the future. But

00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.079
then also, you might die in a year and it never

00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:59.940
manifests. For Alex, the way that he took it

00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.799
was, well, I know I want to start a business.

00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:07.299
And I know that I want to be an entrepreneur.

00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:12.740
And I don't know how long I have left to live.

00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:17.900
And it seems a lot less risky to do it now because

00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:21.460
I don't know if I'll make it to the next year,

00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:30.619
to the next six months. And, yeah, it reminds

00:26:30.619 --> 00:26:34.240
me of Viktor Frankl's imperative where he talks

00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.539
about live as if you were living a second time

00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:41.200
and you had acted wrongly the first. And not

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:47.839
letting these other ideas, narratives from maybe

00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.579
peers, maybe parents, maybe partners tell us

00:26:51.579 --> 00:26:55.000
the thing that we should do. And that's... The

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.740
shoulds are the ones that get in our way. I should

00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:03.059
work a corporate job. I should get married now.

00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.779
I should or I shouldn't get married now. I shouldn't

00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:10.640
have kids now. Whatever the narrative is, it's

00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.700
like, what do you actually want out of your life?

00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.099
And if you only had a year left, what would you

00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:22.940
do? And once you conceptualize that and. think

00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:26.259
about it and meditate about what those things

00:27:26.259 --> 00:27:28.859
are that you want out of life, then just pursue

00:27:28.859 --> 00:27:32.519
them with like a vengeance, with an urgency,

00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:37.559
because we've got one shot at this thing. And

00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.759
why am I going to spend my time wasting it on

00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:44.180
things that I don't want? If I've got one shot,

00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:48.980
I shouldn't waste it. Alex brought up a lot of

00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:53.690
cool things to think about. In terms of figuring

00:27:53.690 --> 00:27:59.930
out exactly what you want out of life. Number

00:27:59.930 --> 00:28:03.869
eight, Armin Kadiwala. We had a long conversation

00:28:03.869 --> 00:28:08.730
about how we set goals and how we can achieve

00:28:08.730 --> 00:28:13.089
those things. And Armin talked about this tendency

00:28:13.089 --> 00:28:18.130
that people have, that myself has, that he has,

00:28:18.230 --> 00:28:21.769
that everyone has to move the goalposts. on a

00:28:21.769 --> 00:28:24.390
goal that we want to achieve. It's like, and

00:28:24.390 --> 00:28:27.950
the analogy he used was some kind of race, like

00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:32.049
a marathon. Like if I signed up for the full

00:28:32.049 --> 00:28:35.069
marathon and I made it halfway to the 13 miles

00:28:35.069 --> 00:28:38.390
and then I give up and I say, woohoo, I did a

00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:40.970
half marathon. It's like, no, you just moved

00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:44.130
the goalposts. It would be different if the initial

00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:47.609
goal was to hit the half marathon. I'm going

00:28:47.609 --> 00:28:50.380
to run a half marathon. That's much different

00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:53.779
than I set the goal here and I gave up halfway

00:28:53.779 --> 00:28:56.960
and then celebrated that I achieved something.

00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:02.359
Yeah, he reminded me that it's important to keep

00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.720
yourself accountable to the goals that you set

00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:08.859
and remember why you set them. This is why you

00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:12.539
don't set a goal willy -nilly. You don't set

00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:14.440
a goal like, oh, I'm going to go to the moon,

00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.420
whatever it might be. You don't just choose it

00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:22.359
out of... chance or out of impulse because you're

00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.599
the one who's holding yourself accountable to

00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:27.700
it and at the end of it you know if you achieved

00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:29.420
it or not and you're not going to be able to

00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:32.619
make it to the end of that goal if if you don't

00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:36.019
didn't have a strong why for why you were doing

00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:39.400
it like a strong reason a strong motive not motivation

00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.779
motivation is fleeting but a strong fundamental

00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:47.549
desire or something you were seeking from fulfillment

00:29:47.549 --> 00:29:52.329
from that goal that will keep you going forward

00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:55.549
when it gets hard and keep you from moving the

00:29:55.549 --> 00:29:57.930
goalposts because you know that the thing you

00:29:57.930 --> 00:30:01.230
want is at the end of the goal not at halfway

00:30:01.230 --> 00:30:04.730
to the goal and I've been reflecting on this

00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:10.470
because because I know that I know that I personally

00:30:10.470 --> 00:30:15.140
want to start a very successful business. And

00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:17.700
I've already had one failed one. I've given it

00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:21.460
an attempt. And right now I'm in a decently good

00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:26.500
spot in terms of financial security and accolades

00:30:26.500 --> 00:30:29.779
and whatever it might be, all of these external

00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:33.180
metrics. And from an outside perspective, looking

00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:36.359
in, someone might say, well, you already did

00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:38.960
the half marathon. Why would you go for the full?

00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:44.400
And I have sometimes fallen into this mode of

00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.819
thinking where it's like, yeah, I can rest on

00:30:46.819 --> 00:30:49.460
my laurels. I have done a lot, but I know that

00:30:49.460 --> 00:30:54.980
what I set out to do was to build something that

00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:57.099
lasts, something that's bigger than myself and

00:30:57.099 --> 00:31:02.359
not allowing myself to move those goalposts is

00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.559
a strong reminder that I need every day. And

00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:09.329
including this podcast, like I want. grow this

00:31:09.329 --> 00:31:13.549
podcast. I want to have awesome guests on. I

00:31:13.549 --> 00:31:18.470
want to share wisdom and share the spirit of

00:31:18.470 --> 00:31:22.130
living courageously with others around me. And

00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:27.410
I know why I've wanted to do that. And I can't

00:31:27.410 --> 00:31:30.630
move the goalposts on any of those things. Number

00:31:30.630 --> 00:31:35.170
nine, Dean Doe. This one's fun. Dean and I talked

00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:39.400
a lot about goals. I guess a lot of this podcast,

00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.839
a lot of this podcast so far has been about goals.

00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.079
And although goals are important and it's cool

00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.240
to achieve things and it feels good to overcome

00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.900
something, to achieve something, it's the human

00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:57.920
spirit, right? There's goals that you've achieved

00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.420
before that you said would make you happy. And

00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:06.980
with Dean, he's done. really well for himself

00:32:06.980 --> 00:32:09.920
he's achieved a lot of success in the corporate

00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:14.319
world he's created a whole entire portfolio of

00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.519
real estate that he built himself and within

00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.980
three years and he learned and he grew and he

00:32:20.980 --> 00:32:26.900
succeeded and for himself he told me that he'd

00:32:26.900 --> 00:32:32.160
that he always tells other people to to celebrate

00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:39.210
to slow down to enjoy their success and he has

00:32:39.210 --> 00:32:43.910
some inability to stop and to he always wants

00:32:43.910 --> 00:32:47.490
the next goal but he remembers that there are

00:32:47.490 --> 00:32:50.710
goals that he's achieved that he said would make

00:32:50.710 --> 00:32:56.410
him happy and the reason I thought this was so

00:32:56.410 --> 00:33:01.109
interesting or cool was that I myself have also

00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:04.049
achieved goals that I said would make me happy.

00:33:04.650 --> 00:33:08.589
And at the end of it, I create a new goal and

00:33:08.589 --> 00:33:10.589
I say, this one will make me happy. This will

00:33:10.589 --> 00:33:13.569
be the one. And obviously, it's never enough.

00:33:13.910 --> 00:33:17.109
There's never a goal that will actually get you

00:33:17.109 --> 00:33:20.130
in a mental state where you're satisfied. Oh,

00:33:20.190 --> 00:33:23.710
I can rest now. It's just never going to happen.

00:33:24.529 --> 00:33:29.650
And it provides an ability to reframe the goals

00:33:29.650 --> 00:33:35.470
as their purpose is not. to make you happy. There

00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:39.369
are other ways to try to pursue happiness, however

00:33:39.369 --> 00:33:42.130
you might define it. For some people, that's

00:33:42.130 --> 00:33:45.690
experiences. For some other people, that's their

00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:52.230
family. Whatever it is for you, goals aren't

00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:56.430
meant to make you happy. They're there for you

00:33:56.430 --> 00:34:00.849
to have something to push towards. There's something

00:34:01.579 --> 00:34:03.640
And maybe this is how I would like to say it

00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:06.880
the best is that the goal is never about the

00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:12.239
goal. You are the goal. You yourself are the

00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.820
outcome that you are pursuing. And the goal is

00:34:15.820 --> 00:34:20.480
a conduit for the growth that you are seeking

00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.559
as a person. And it's never been about the goal.

00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:28.159
It's never been about achievement. It's always

00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:33.710
been about... turning yourself into the person

00:34:33.710 --> 00:34:37.329
that you want to be and you are the eternal project

00:34:37.329 --> 00:34:41.409
you are the the goal that's never complete but

00:34:41.409 --> 00:34:46.750
it's the only goal that matters is crafting this

00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:49.849
person that you look up to that you love that

00:34:49.849 --> 00:34:53.590
you think is awesome and that's you and number

00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:57.409
10 with Philip Folsom. He talked a lot about

00:34:57.409 --> 00:35:00.630
this idea of the lone wolf. The time of the lone

00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:04.889
wolf is over. The lone wolf dies. And the reason

00:35:04.889 --> 00:35:08.489
he talked about it is there's this thing in wolves

00:35:08.489 --> 00:35:12.570
where they're one of the only animals where you

00:35:12.570 --> 00:35:16.130
can find evidence of healed broken bones. And

00:35:16.130 --> 00:35:18.710
why is that important? Why does that matter?

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:26.039
Well, healed broken bones are proof of This tribe

00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.940
that supports the person that is down. Because

00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:35.699
a lone wolf who breaks its leg or a rib or whatever

00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:40.679
or has some capability that takes away its ability

00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:44.239
to survive in the wild, it dies. The wolf who

00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.320
has no tribe dies. And the wolf with the tribe

00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:50.889
gets nursed back to health. and protected until

00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.469
he can now go out again and hunt big game and

00:35:55.469 --> 00:35:59.190
give give to the rest of the tribe give to the

00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:02.829
rest of the people that maybe are down and this

00:36:02.829 --> 00:36:07.809
reminds me of of maybe this maybe this meme or

00:36:07.809 --> 00:36:12.360
idea is less popular now but like the The Sigma

00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.059
male, the I just need to lock in, the I don't

00:36:16.059 --> 00:36:18.559
need anyone else. I'm just going to push forward

00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.460
towards my goals. And that person isn't the person

00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:25.920
who wins. Like this idea of the person who just

00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:30.889
achieves on their own is. Kind of fake. The people

00:36:30.889 --> 00:36:33.550
who succeed and do really well and build amazing

00:36:33.550 --> 00:36:36.849
lives are the people who are surrounded by a

00:36:36.849 --> 00:36:39.869
tribe, the people who are supported by others,

00:36:39.929 --> 00:36:43.239
who are brought back up when they're down. And

00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.739
that's an investment that needs to be made in

00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.900
the tribe. And the tribe could be your coworkers,

00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:53.159
your family, your close friends, your relationship.

00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:55.920
But it's all these people around you that care

00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:58.320
about you and believe in you. You need to invest

00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:04.039
in those. You need to give to others and help

00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:06.579
them out and raise them up when they're down.

00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.699
And then every time that you're down, you get

00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:15.710
brought back up. And this allows the capability

00:37:15.710 --> 00:37:21.630
to take more risk. And risk often creates outsized

00:37:21.630 --> 00:37:26.849
returns. And the only way you feel safe to take

00:37:26.849 --> 00:37:29.750
a risk is that you know if you fall, you'll get

00:37:29.750 --> 00:37:33.469
picked back up. And Philip talked about the army

00:37:33.469 --> 00:37:36.449
and how the person you looked out for the least

00:37:36.449 --> 00:37:39.320
was yourself. Why was that? You had 10 other

00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:42.460
guys looking out for your safety and your only

00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:45.300
job was to look out for the 10 other guys' safety.

00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:48.780
Like there's no the 10 other soldiers and making

00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:51.559
sure that they're safe. And yeah, I just want

00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:55.000
to get rid of this myth because it's such an,

00:37:55.019 --> 00:37:57.639
for some reason, it's so attractive to young

00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:02.099
men to pursue things on a solo track, to come

00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:05.659
out, to go monk mode and change their lives in

00:38:05.659 --> 00:38:08.710
six months, in 12 months. And there is, again,

00:38:08.869 --> 00:38:11.030
the lonely chapter that Kushong talked about,

00:38:11.130 --> 00:38:14.429
which is there are periods of time where your

00:38:14.429 --> 00:38:17.269
head's down and you're pushing and you're building,

00:38:17.389 --> 00:38:21.389
but you can't have those periods without having

00:38:21.389 --> 00:38:24.429
previously invested in the tribe around you.

00:38:24.590 --> 00:38:29.869
And one of the most scary things is to get to

00:38:29.869 --> 00:38:33.469
the end of a goal of an achievement and to have

00:38:33.469 --> 00:38:36.690
nobody to share that with, not a single person.

00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:40.210
Sure, you achieved it. But who's happy for you?

00:38:40.309 --> 00:38:45.750
Who is there to celebrate with you? And so, yeah,

00:38:45.849 --> 00:38:50.269
there's the lone wolf dies. Don't be a lone wolf.

00:38:50.590 --> 00:38:55.130
And this last idea is one that is from myself

00:38:55.130 --> 00:38:59.090
that I've been thinking a lot about. And it's

00:38:59.090 --> 00:39:03.469
been the end of 2024 a bit ago. And I was reflecting

00:39:03.469 --> 00:39:08.360
on a lot of just like... what I've done in my

00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:15.699
life so far and how 2024 went. And I came to

00:39:15.699 --> 00:39:21.039
think about this idea of you versus you and how

00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:25.780
you versus you is often touted as the mentality

00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:29.099
that we should take when trying to get a new

00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:32.039
goal or a new skill or taking on a new challenge.

00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:36.139
The curse of you versus you. The only person

00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:38.619
that you should try to be is yourself. And every

00:39:38.619 --> 00:39:41.760
day you should show up better than the day before.

00:39:42.260 --> 00:39:46.000
And it's generally good advice. It generally

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:51.480
works. Like if I'm unfit and I just need to go

00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.360
to the gym for 10 minutes, I win against myself.

00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:57.960
And that starts to compound. I go to the gym

00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.039
for 10 minutes. I go to the gym for 20 minutes.

00:40:00.710 --> 00:40:03.949
Or maybe I'm unemployed and I just need to show

00:40:03.949 --> 00:40:06.710
up to a job interview to beat my previous day,

00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:09.909
like my previous self. Maybe I'm scared of showing

00:40:09.909 --> 00:40:12.269
up to the job interview because I'm scared of

00:40:12.269 --> 00:40:16.230
rejection. And I beat myself by showing up. And

00:40:16.230 --> 00:40:20.929
the task that is demanded of you by this prerogative

00:40:20.929 --> 00:40:23.690
makes sense a lot of time because you're reaching

00:40:23.690 --> 00:40:26.809
beyond your current capabilities and pushing

00:40:26.809 --> 00:40:30.639
them. But what happens when you do become an

00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:33.780
extremely high performer? When your only option

00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:37.420
is to outdo your latest, greatest achievement?

00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.400
How does Kobe beat himself after winning the

00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:45.340
NBA championship? How does Jeff Bezos beat himself

00:40:45.340 --> 00:40:48.780
and build a bigger company than Amazon? And it

00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:52.659
seems like they should be just fine. They should

00:40:52.659 --> 00:40:58.400
be satisfied with their achievements. The prerogative

00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.599
of you versus you, they should continue to try

00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.260
to beat these achievements. But at what cost?

00:41:04.420 --> 00:41:07.579
Like, how do you outperform yourself when you've

00:41:07.579 --> 00:41:12.079
already done so much? You versus you leads you

00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:15.260
to getting better at whatever the goal was that

00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:17.800
you set out for yourself. But once you reach

00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:21.780
a certain level, you're actually cursed to compete

00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:25.340
against yourself. Wouldn't it be nice to rest

00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:28.460
against the laurels? of comparing yourself to

00:41:28.460 --> 00:41:32.139
someone else, to say I may not have beaten my

00:41:32.139 --> 00:41:35.800
own personal record, but I'm so far ahead of

00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:40.699
everyone else that it doesn't matter. And I've

00:41:40.699 --> 00:41:44.139
been thinking a lot about this because I was

00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:49.219
down on myself for when I reflected on 2024.

00:41:50.260 --> 00:41:55.579
It felt like I'd started a lot of new things.

00:41:56.119 --> 00:42:00.119
and achieved some things. Like I started this

00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.659
podcast. I started in real estate investing.

00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:07.699
I went to some cool places, traveling. There

00:42:07.699 --> 00:42:12.619
was a lot of progress that I made. And reflecting

00:42:12.619 --> 00:42:17.599
on it, I thought to myself that I really, really

00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:23.610
half did a lot of things. I wasn't proud of it.

00:42:23.670 --> 00:42:25.710
I was like, maybe I should have been more focused

00:42:25.710 --> 00:42:27.849
throughout the year. Maybe I should have cut

00:42:27.849 --> 00:42:29.929
out some of the things that I was working on.

00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:33.030
But I was talking to one of my friends and he

00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:37.409
was like, you shouldn't be down on yourself because

00:42:37.409 --> 00:42:42.889
even if you've failed to achieve excellence at

00:42:42.889 --> 00:42:45.969
everything you've done, you did a lot of hard

00:42:45.969 --> 00:42:49.130
things. You started a lot of things that take

00:42:49.130 --> 00:42:53.769
a lot of effort. encouraged to do and you should

00:42:53.769 --> 00:42:58.710
be maybe not should but it's okay to be satisfied

00:42:58.710 --> 00:43:03.769
with what I accomplished and yeah that's that's

00:43:03.769 --> 00:43:06.150
part of that curse of you versus you is part

00:43:06.150 --> 00:43:08.349
of the reason I'm so down on myself is because

00:43:08.349 --> 00:43:13.030
I'm trying to beat who I was previously and the

00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:16.389
the only way I can do that is by being more excellent

00:43:16.389 --> 00:43:20.440
than I have been before And generally, I've done

00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:24.760
pretty well for myself. And now I want to do

00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:28.099
better than that. And it's being able to break

00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:30.699
out of the you versus you mentality. Like it's

00:43:30.699 --> 00:43:34.880
a useful mentality to have. It's a useful metric

00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:38.219
to compare yourself to yourself. But you shouldn't

00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:41.900
always compare yourself to yourself. Like sometimes

00:43:41.900 --> 00:43:46.760
you've just done well, even if you didn't. outcompete

00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:49.760
your previous best you didn't you didn't have

00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.360
more character than you did the year before you

00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.480
didn't you didn't achieve something to a level

00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:57.840
of excellence that you hadn't achieved before

00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:02.780
sometimes it's okay to just have had a good year

00:44:02.780 --> 00:44:06.980
where you maintained some things you built some

00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:10.880
other things and being okay with being satisfied

00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:13.480
with those things is just like something I'm

00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:17.119
working really hard on right now And yeah, that's

00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.000
the curse of you versus you. And so that's all

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.719
I have for you guys today. And I hope you've

00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.780
enjoyed this little journey alongside my reflections

00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:32.219
on the few podcasts that I've had so far. And

00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:35.019
we're going to have a ton more podcasts. I'll

00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:37.039
do a few more of these reflections along the

00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:39.820
way, reflecting on what I'm learning and how

00:44:39.820 --> 00:44:44.480
I'm growing. Thank you all for the support, and

00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.619
I really hope you're getting something out of

00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:51.500
it. The whole reason I started this podcast is

00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:55.179
because I don't want to learn things alone. I

00:44:55.179 --> 00:44:56.860
want to be able to share those things, right?

00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:01.139
And so everyone who's listening and watching

00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.639
wherever you're consuming this podcast, you get

00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:08.739
to come alongside and see what I learn, how I

00:45:08.739 --> 00:45:14.010
fail. maybe get some learnings yourself and yeah

00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:16.969
thank you all and have a great day