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Hey welcome back everyone.

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Today's guest is Sarah Margulisi.

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She is a business owner, she's a musician, and she's a mother.

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Taking a non-traditional life path can seem really scary, but sticking to a traditional

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route can feel unfulfilling and boring.

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Sarah's journey shows us how leaning into uncertainty can lead to unexpected growth

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both personally and professionally.

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Today we will discuss Sarah's relationship with imposter syndrome, why she believes blue

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collar work offers untapped potential for Gen Z, how taking care of her employees made

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her successful, why she never finished high school, and why that's a good thing, what

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it was like to raise herself and live alone at 16, her struggles with anxiety and depression,

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how she learned to appreciate the journey while staying focused on her goals, and much

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more.

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If you are enjoying these episodes, you could do one big favor for me.

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This show only grows from word of mouth, so please share this with someone that you know

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who you think will enjoy it as well.

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Thank you all for listening.

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Five kids was enough I think.

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I have another little sister so there's six, but yeah I was the youngest of five so.

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Oh so you got a big family as well?

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Yeah.

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Hose fights in the house.

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No, hose fights in the house is crazy.

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We lived in Tucson so we had all tile boards.

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And you brought the hose inside.

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Yeah there was no place you could hide.

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That was kind of the idea which was terrible.

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That's horrible.

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And it would dry pretty quickly because it was so dry and hot.

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Yeah.

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Somehow my mom never figured it out.

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We told her years later.

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I don't know.

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She never saw how everything inside was wet.

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Now we managed to clean it up you know before she got home from work.

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These are some innovative kids.

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Yeah it's like when you don't have money you come up with a lot of really crazy games.

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Yeah.

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You know.

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We'll do a proper introduction.

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Welcome on Sarah.

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Great to have you here.

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Today I want to touch on a lot of different things about your business, so your personal

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life and seeing how you've navigated to become who you are today and how you've had to live

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bravely go out of your comfort zone to do those things.

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So I want to start at the beginning of native earth.

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I know you started it to a side hustle for your band.

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Yes.

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Which that was so surprising to me.

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I was like huh band and gardening?

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These are like two like way usually considered pretty separate.

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So I kind of want you to tell me about those early days.

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How did it really become the full-time hustle and why did the music not become the full-time?

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Well probably the fastest explanation would be I did a really thorough job and because

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of that the work just started flowing in like crazy which was kind of you know when you

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show people that you're really good at what you do and then you're able to manage you

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know your time well.

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It turned into next thing I knew honestly it's hard to explain.

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I had to hire people and once I started hiring people I knew I was responsible also for other

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people's income so it became more serious to me.

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It wasn't just about me so if I screwed it up I was going to screw it up for everybody

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and so there was that motivation of making sure to take care of the community at the

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same time and then I thought well this is great let's just keep building on this and

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then I did for a while kind of play in a band when the company was coasting for a small

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period of time but then I got pregnant with my first child and so that really changes

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your perspective on looking at where your priorities need to sort of lie for a bit.

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So yeah I think it might alter from maximizing for fun and enjoyment and now you have to

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take care of another human.

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Yes.

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That kind of changes everything.

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So when you were starting out what motivated you for this to be the business and then how

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did you go about actually starting it like getting your first client getting in people's

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doors?

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So I worked for another landscape company for a short period of time for about a year

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and a half and I made a lot of connections within the industry themselves.

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I always knew that I wanted to have something to do with plants as part of my career just

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because it runs in my family's blood and it's something that just I've always found super

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enjoyable because plants give back in ways that you know I joke that humans don't you

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know they don't talk back.

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If you treat them well they just look really beautiful.

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There's a lot of reward based upon it and so when I quit that job to start my own company

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I gave them so much notice like three months notice because I was their horticulturist

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and they ended up helping me get my first few jobs because I had made some really solid

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relationships and made sure not to burn bridges when I left instead you know and a lot of

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people I think sometimes when they're ready to make a change they act irrationally I guess

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instead of thinking that you know in any industry there's always people that all know each other.

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It doesn't matter what the industry is and people talk.

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So I was known as Smiley and this nursery was asked by someone else that then said do

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you know anybody and it turned into my first really big client without getting too detailed

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and then it was just based upon my skill sets and my ability to make the property look as

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beautiful as I could.

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So I hope that kind of answers that.

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So a roundabout thing of just honestly also having a really strong work ethic no matter

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how tired I was or if I had gone out the night before I'd always be there the next day ready

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to go and found a lot of there's a lot of satisfaction in doing a physical job as well

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as something where at the end of the day you can see the results of your work.

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You're not just pushing paper around or serving coffee or doing something like that.

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You're like wow this looks horrible now it looks amazing and like everyone feels so much

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better after they see that and the clients love it.

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Super high attention to detail.

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Yeah I think there's something about seeing the impact of your work when you're doing

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it versus you're sitting on a laptop writing emails responding to messages and you don't

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really ever see this big beautiful thing you've created versus with plants you might actually

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get that.

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I'm actually working on remodeling a house right now that I bought.

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I really do appreciate that physical labor where it's like oh you actually see the output

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of your hands immediately after you've done it which is really really nice.

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Yeah and I find that a lot of people have been disconnected from that feeling of like

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a hard day's work because so many people were convinced that it was a job that was beneath

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them and didn't ever think that it could turn into something that could be highly successful

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and highly lucrative and create a community of its own and it just sort of was treated

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as like a blue collar thing and so I specialized on purpose on more of a horticultural side

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and then made sure to make friends with people at the Botanic Gardens and found mentors and

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worked for free in their yard so they could teach me stuff and I created my own internship

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essentially.

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I was like hey I'll come weed your garden teach me and they were like okay that's great.

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It's pretty amazing what you can get if you just ask people for help.

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Like I think a lot of people are afraid to kind of ask for help.

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It kind of makes you look like you don't have the skill set or don't have the ability to

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do the thing but I think people who have experience really appreciate that earnestness to learn.

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It's respecting the work that's come before you and your elders honestly.

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I know it maybe sounds cheesy or something or I don't want to preface it too much.

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It's amazing how many people shy away from mentorship and yet there's all these people

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out there that would love to pass on this knowledge that really is just better obtained

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when you do it in person versus reading it in a book or taking a class right.

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The hands on experience is just you can't beat that kind of education and honestly there's

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so many people out there that are so wise that would love to teach the next generation

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especially when it comes to passing the torch when it comes to gardens because this industry

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is kind of in a little bit of trouble so we'll see what happens.

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Yeah I think you touched on something interesting a second ago which is that people see kind

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of blue collar jobs just kind of beneath them and then this kind of big push for going to

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college getting an education getting a nice white collar job although now we're seeing

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that these people coming out of college and they can't really get a job.

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They don't really have that dream that was sold to them and then people who are getting

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into trades getting a physical labor actually doing quite well.

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Yes, yeah the whole trade field is doing exceedingly well and is at least 15% understaffed on average

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in Colorado in my industry especially for actual skilled people that know what they're

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doing and it's kind of created an interesting situation here where all of a sudden people

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that used to we call it chuck in a truck you know like chuck in a truck that's got his

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mower and his blower you know those people really aren't around in the same way anymore

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and so they're having to either go to large corporate entities where they have a crew

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that sort of constantly has massive turnover and or they find like the small small companies

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where it's like one or two gardeners maybe three there's not as much consistency or systems

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to it and then there's my business which sort of fits in that Goldilocks zone which is a

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corporation technically however it's not it's like still a mom-and-pop vibe right and so

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when we are going to these clients and explaining to them what they're getting for the money

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that they're spending they're still spending less than they would at the big corporate

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level and maybe they're spending a little bit more than the garden people that just

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like one per like the chuck in the truck or someone like that right however the quality

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of work is just so much higher and so that's really what I've strived for is just making

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sure the quality of what we do is really really high and explaining to my clients the value

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of what they're spending their money on so it's also a matter of trying to explain the

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value to the client sometimes you have to bring them back to where you're at and say

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hey you know some people spend a ton of money on a purse or a ton of money to go out to

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eat or to go to France you know you have to prioritize what's important to you so if your

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backyard is really important to you that should be somewhere where you put your investment

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and so when COVID happened especially it my business exploded because everybody was stuck

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at home right and they're we should change this we should do this we should do that yeah

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they really looked closely at their yards so yeah no yeah I think that one of these

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things that getting into gardening getting into trades getting into physical labor it

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seems kind of scary to take a non-traditional role and not go the traditional route but

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you dropped out of high school so what gave you the the bravery or the the gumption to

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kind of go off on your own take a very non-traditional path honestly I had imposter syndrome for

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a little while right because on my resume now mind you this is before LinkedIn really

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because it was 25 years ago or so that I really entered the workforce and I ended up getting

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jobs working as like office manager and inventory control specialist I was I don't I don't know

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why when I first lived in San Francisco I worked at a nursery and I fell in love with

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that job I loved it it was the most rewarding thing but I moved to Colorado in the middle

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of a snowstorm and knew that I'd have to wait until the next season to get back into gardening

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but then I ended up in this other world where I was getting paid really well to do this

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desk job and then decided I was miserable and I quit what was considered a really high

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paying good job with stock options and benefits and all these things to jump in and go you

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know what I'm willing to take a hit because I'm just miserable and when you love what

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you do you tend to do a really good job so to tie that back into the LinkedIn thing it's

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like people couldn't search you as easily so I could just put a Tobacco School of the

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Arts and Toronto Canada I wasn't lying they would just assume that that was college was

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like oh it was high school and so you know there was that feeling of imposter syndrome

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I would never lie but I always was nervous somebody would figure out maybe I didn't have

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a degree in this right and then I discovered over time that nobody really cares if you

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have a degree in something they just care that you can do a job right so there was an

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engineer that I worked for in from South Africa and he said the final test was then being

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locked into the library and they were given a question that they've never learned anything

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on and he said when hiring you always want to figure out what can people learn not what

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do they already know and that really changed the way that I looked at doing this job and

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it was like I can keep reading I can keep learning I can work with these mentors I can

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work with people ask questions and so being curious I swear has probably been the biggest

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defining factor of making the business what it is because I'm always learning new stuff

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every day every single day you cannot learn everything in horticulture you'd be a liar

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if you said you knew everything yeah and that's the same about everything the more you know

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the more you know that you don't know yeah right when you come came into that really

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nice role and you hated it and then you wanted to transition to something new what was that

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transition period like like when you finally let it go and then when you actually have

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this later paradigm shift for you like oh I can continue learning and I'm actually good

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at this what was that that beginning period like my family thought I was a little bit

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crazy especially with my background of not having a high school diploma at that point

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that I would give up on something that was somewhat of a sure bet however I just again

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the turning point was the fruits of the labor like not to use a gardening analogy but you

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see the work that you do and it's so fulfilling at the end of the day you know if you have

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anxiety you've got depression you have insomnia like my god like go garden for eight hours

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a day you're gonna be tired you're gonna be hungry and you're gonna feel relaxed pretty

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much and sleep pretty well most people it really tends to hear you're outside there's

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actual microorganisms in the soil that they found that when you're touching them with

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your hands they release serotonin in your body so gardening actually literally makes

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you happy so for me it was a no-brainer and and I think it can relate to any job really

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is just being yeah I just took the leap because once you start in that direction I just had

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this drive to see how far I could take it and it became somewhat of almost a challenge

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like how far can I go with this at this point right yeah so which has its pitfalls too what

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do you mean by that uh because sometimes when you get so hyper focused on the success of

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it all maybe you miss some of the elements of again I'm gonna use a dumb analogy it's

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like the forest through the trees right or you know nose to spite your face like you're

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working really hard but are you really enjoying all that you have built are you just stressing

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constantly about making it bigger or being able to pay more or being able to cover costs

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right because as you grow you have more expenses so it's not just because you get bigger you

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make more money you just take on a lot more responsibility so I luckily was pretty good

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with taking on that responsibility but I could see how some people get really scared so I

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would say the other most important factor was to surround myself with other people that

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I could trust and not be fearful of this idea of training people and teaching them these

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skills because there's this idea of false scarcity or that somebody's gonna take what

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you know a lot of tradesmen get really weird about wanting to teach people what they know

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because they think someone's gonna take it from them and it's just really just a false

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scarcity mentality there's there's plenty of work to go around for everybody and so

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if clients would ditch you to work for somebody that you trained then you don't want them

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as a client anyway it creates a very ugly environment yeah did you know that innately

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when you started out that helping others and bringing them up teaching them would lead

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to more growth within the company as opposed to kind of keeping your own secrets to yourselves

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your secret sauce yes 100% I saw a bunch of people in the industry older than me that

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were burning out because they had never really trained their next apprentice they hadn't

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taken the time to pass on that knowledge that they had so it was just them and maybe one

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or two other people that they had to manage so I did kind of know that from the beginning

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that the only way to make this a sustainable industry or a sustainable job within this

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industry was to grow and invite more people into the tent right to really like show people

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what it is that this job can do and I've been burned for sure like I'm not gonna lie there's

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times that I've had ex-employees completely burn me and but then I've also helped six

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ex-employees start their own gardening businesses as well all over the country and it's really

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amazing to see them flourish and I send them clients sometimes the ones that are local

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so yeah it's people want to work in a job where they don't feel scared like and they

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don't feel like they have to lie to you too and say oh this job is everything to me I

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want to be here forever you know and then they leave in a year yeah you just want to

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be open to like everyone has dreams and maybe this job is just a stopover for some people

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but for me it's my career obviously at this point so it's just managing managing people's

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expectations and yeah I don't know if I got off topic a little bit you can go wherever

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you want how did you manage to kind of cultivate this mom-and-pop vibe very open it feels like

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you're connected to the company to the business while also growing and scaling this up again

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then it came down to having a few key other employees and players that were able to act

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you know as the the me from the beginning right where I used to be the foreman on every

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job site for the first five years right you know so it's very hands-on and even my clients

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who I still have a few of them from that beginning era were really somewhat disappointed being

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like well you're not going to be our foreman anymore I'm like well I'm growing you know

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that's a good thing right so you got to trust this new person and so in order to I think

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make that leap it just again it comes back to I'd rather have trust and hope and faith

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in people than assume the worst in everyone so I sort of I I hope for the best and I still

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prepare for bad scenarios and I would say that one thing that I would offer to anybody

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if they're going to go into business regardless of what it is is really have an exit strategy

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like a really clear concise way is if you decided you didn't want to do this anymore

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how would you get out because looking at that kind of frees you up to not be afraid if it

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goes sideways or you want to sell it or or if you have a business partner somebody that

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you're connected with and just having those honest conversations about what if this goes

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sideways because things happen people get you know hit by a car you know you could have

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a business partner they get his you know hit by a car or you know whatever that is so the

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other thing I would say is really really really important is systems having like a really

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good system that anybody could follow you just kind of hand them the manual it's like

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a lot of people don't take the time to create a system Warren Buffett actually said that

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quote which I'm not like a fan of his but he said I would never buy a company that an

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idiot couldn't run yeah and so sometimes what's scary for business owners is they feel as

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if I'm not important anymore for my company to function your ego takes a massive hit and

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you get freaked out you know I see this happen all the time and then they end up running

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themselves and their business into the ground as opposed to passing on that information

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yeah and creating a system that most people could follow because the problem is they're

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making themselves the limiting point of the business yes and they're also the face of

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it so it cannot be bought it cannot function without them yeah and that's a dangerous place

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yeah that makes sense how do you kind of build these systems and what does that look like

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in implementation when you're creating a system that anyone can use and continue it on and

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it still keeps the the Sarah of what you put into the business I think there's a lot of

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trial and error obviously that went down over many many years hey let's try this what about

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this and finding people either you know following the system or not but we live in a technological

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age at this point really you have no excuse so that like back when I started this thing

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I drove around with like a Nokia phone you know no you know this hard heavy thing and

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I had a map book of the city of Denver right and like encyclopedias of plant names and

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pest problems and all that stuff and I'm always going guys you have the whole world in your

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hand right now right and so you know it's just like trying out different systems and

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seeing whether they work or not I guess and making sure that you're not making them too

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cumbersome as well because sometimes you end up running into the problem where if you create

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too many systems and then people feel like they are just a robot in their job there's

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no autonomy so I don't know it's a hard question to answer really in a succinct way I mean at

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this point we've narrowed it down to a few things but again it was it's just like having

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a folder on each client you know and I guess it would depend on the industry so every industry

287
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is different on how and what systems they would use I would just say try a bunch of

288
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them keep trying stuff until you find something that actually works for your organization

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however really having a system in place is important and not just piles of paper or just

290
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I don't know like what's our budget right now who knows you know you should be able

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to look at what your you know your your P&L sheet looks like your P&L sheet should always

292
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be very clean and concise you know that's another thing that people shy away from I

293
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think is sometimes knowing the actual financial health of their business it can be scary because

294
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sometimes it could show you that you might be in a difficult place but the reality is

295
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you can't fix it if you don't know about it yeah yeah I think that's maybe one of the

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sticking points that your classic small business that is mom and pop kind of hits on is that

297
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they're not really tracking any metrics they're not really looking at any systems they're

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kind of just selling to customers and people come back and that's kind of the whole thing

299
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yeah and so yeah you you figured out what that thing was for your business and it's

300
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gone on to grow to a massive scale and somehow still keep that mom and pop vibe which is

301
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very impressive thank you yeah we it's it's it takes a village though it really does it

302
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takes a community of people to do it so and I think treating people also with respect

303
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and kindness and not you know I've fired clients before if they treat my employees like crap

304
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I'm gonna be I think it actually happened today where we had somebody that got yelled

305
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at by it wasn't even the homeowner it was their housekeeper or something it was like

306
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really odd so it's turned into this whole thing where it's like yeah that happens again

307
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we're not coming back yeah it's like I don't allow people to mistreat the employees right

308
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it's not like business first no employee first and that's how I ended up founding one of

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the founding members of good business Colorado which is a small business organization where

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we do legislative work where we helped pass family and medical leave act we helped pass

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the sick time you know bill we helped pass all these different legislative pieces because

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we were already ethically running our companies really well and we felt let's lay a level

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of playing field right like I already give my people way more than I'm supposed to by

314
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law wouldn't it be cool we kind of forced that would be cool if we force everybody else

315
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to get on board you know and but not over regulatory but happy it's like on my website

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it says happy gardeners make happy gardens right it's so obvious to me if people are

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miserable at their job they're gonna do a miserable job so you have to put the employee

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welfare at really you're very top tier now at the same time don't let them take advantage

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because sometimes that will also happen and then you work into this mentality of you have

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people that have these like kind of higher expectations or hate to use the word entitlement

321
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because it's thrown around a lot these days however there is sometimes like an entitlement

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mentality when you treat someone and pay someone really really well that's great and all and

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it's worked out for me in the long run but it has to come along with making sure that

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they're doing their job as well and the only way they do that is if the whole company kind

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of holds them accountable now one person yeah right we're like this is the company culture

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which I also know is kind of a weird thing to say these days I don't know I'm yeah people

327
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are pretty anti-company culture and pizza parties they don't like that I get that I get that

328
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um however it still exists regardless if we want it to not exist or not I think the bigger

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issue might be with corporate company culture when it feels lifeless right like company culture that

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exists and is full of life I think is a great thing to have and it does exist yeah I mean every

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company has a culture yeah whether we want it to or not you know it's sort of like I have a hand

332
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and so yeah but it is interesting again the use of words these days and making sure to be very

333
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you know aware and conscious which I think has also been a really great thing you know again

334
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finding the right person for the right job too is another thing it's like that a lot of people

335
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don't spend time getting to know or making sure their organization even if it's not me

336
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getting to know somebody I make sure that the foreman or the operations manager or whoever

337
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they're checking in they're saying it's not maybe a uptight review process but it's like how can we

338
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better help you or what things are you liking or not liking I mean I had it I had a guy that worked

339
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for NSA um really high level uh and just needed a break right yeah and he's like I just want to push

340
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wheelbarrows for a summer it's like great here you go Pete it's like push the wheelbarrow and he was

341
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happy as happy could be and I have other people that want to do leadership that are great at it

342
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and then other people if you put them into a leadership role they don't know what to do with

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it sometimes so the other way I look at it is that that person that's loyal that's been there for a

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really long time also deserves to get pay raises in the same way that your management does right

345
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because you need those dependable reliable people they're no better or worse than the people that

346
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are running and managing we just have different ways that our brains function so I think that

347
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that's another important thing when people talk about you know just go flip burgers it's an empty

348
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meaningless job you know everybody has who's gonna flip the burger then yeah who's gonna clean the

349
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toilet I don't know I've always been quite disappointed in society's viewpoint on treating

350
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some of the hardest jobs that there are out there physically and you know um as some what beneath

351
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people right and it's just I think that's what society's kind of kind of really screwed up and

352
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gotten separated from is that a hard day's good work can be one of the most fulfilling things in

353
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the world some of the happiest communities on the planet are these small farming communities that

354
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don't really have much media and they don't you know they're not caught up in technology and they

355
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just they're happy because they just they know what they're doing every day and they're doing

356
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something that means something and putting food on the table I don't know yeah I think it that

357
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you've made a good point there where you have to make it you have to make it possible to grow

358
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within the scope of that work right like you can't have it be a dead-end job for this person they

359
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have to be able to grow for them to still care about it to want to keep doing it right um I was

360
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:37,480
also curious about you were talking about people might take advantage of kind of you setting up

361
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these structures where they kind of favor the employee and you want them to be really happy

362
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how has that kind of played out

363
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I got to discover what hiring lawyers was all about which is really fun I remember when I hired

364
00:29:53,720 --> 00:30:01,640
my first lawyer she said congratulations it means you're successful yeah that's a classic it's like

365
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:08,120
how is that a congratulations yeah dealing with the first you know issue with an employee

366
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that you know was really unfounded however you know you have to protect yourself and the entity

367
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so it's like sort of playing you realize if you hit a certain point you got to protect your brand

368
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and you have to protect your your name and you have to protect the people that still work for you

369
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um it's been very rare though it I would say over 21 years I've maybe faced it with like four or five

370
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:41,480
people I consider myself incredibly lucky right because I think that overall this job attracts

371
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people that don't that aren't looking to take advantage of a system they they want to enjoy

372
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the people they work with you know because those people exist no matter what career they're in

373
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right there's always one that sneaks through you know they're really good at like talking to you

374
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and making you feel like they you know really care and deep down inside maybe they got hurt as a kid

375
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and never really realized that false scarcity doesn't exist I think it comes from that mentality

376
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if I don't take it no one's going to give it to me yeah it's a zero-sum game yeah and I really feel

377
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bad for those people at heart because that's got to be a hard way to live yeah I mean ultimately

378
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they won't be able to build a fruitful life right because every relationship every business

379
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:32,760
every thing you do is kind of about giving and then you also get and it's this relationship where

380
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:40,280
everyone wins yeah and it's a lot of fear you know uh life is full of of fear you know my mentor

381
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,280
used to say that fear and excitement are like a heartbeat away from each other right they're so

382
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:52,040
close like a roller coaster like you can be really freaked out or scared or really excited those two

383
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,440
live and exist in a really similar place in your nervous system and where your adrenaline pumps

384
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:04,520
your serotonin levels or dopamine and so when I start finding myself getting fearful I just try to

385
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,800
remind myself I'm like okay yo it's okay like maybe this is exciting maybe I'm gonna learn

386
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:19,640
something new with this and you know I I won't lie I also enjoy winning I won't lie like I won't

387
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:27,320
deny the fact that there's something that's also incredibly uh fulfilling when I feel like somebody

388
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:35,720
might come at my organization or myself personally and I'm able to still be the bigger person and not

389
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:41,480
turn into like angry or fighting about it but still carefully sort of as they say in gardening weed out

390
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:47,240
the problem uh in the most delicate way possible and know that around the corner there's gonna be

391
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:54,440
I mean there's I people always complain about the millennials or even gen z or gen you know what is

392
00:32:54,440 --> 00:33:00,840
the next one alpha is that it yeah alpha I found that there are so many people in those generations

393
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:09,400
that are incredible and they just need people to kind of meet them where they're at because they

394
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:16,360
were really sold a big pack of lies and there are going to be god what was it I read something

395
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:22,200
recently millions and millions of mom and pop companies are going to be closing their doors

396
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over the next couple of years because there's no one there to take over for mom and pop when they

397
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,480
retire yeah nobody wants to do those jobs and they see it and they're like that's a lot of work well

398
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if you love what you do it doesn't feel like a lot of work in the same way and if you have a community

399
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:44,920
again to just spin it all back around you've got many people to carry that weight then it it tends

400
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:52,680
to work out you know there's no perfect job yeah yeah like one of my friends was complaining about

401
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,720
kind of entitlement in like our generation and he was like everyone's just getting out of college

402
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,880
and they're like I want to have where's my 100k my lambo and like all my dates where where are they

403
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:11,320
and so like yeah I think that everyone's kind of looking for this perfect ideal that they're they

404
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:19,080
were kind of sold but the the actual fulfillment of a job doesn't come from any money or from

405
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,640
having possessions or like going on a lot of dates and having a lot of optionality there

406
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:30,040
it really just comes from do you enjoy it yeah if you enjoy your job 75% of the time I think you're

407
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,080
doing really well that's kind of what I've noticed 25% of the time yeah we're all going to have that

408
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,720
off day yeah I mean it'd be cool if it was more like 80 20 you know that's sort of the what is

409
00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:46,120
that the like I hate Mondays yeah there's like a t-shirt I hate Mondays I need coffee I need coffee

410
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:52,120
there's like a t-shirt I hate Mondays I need coffee with Garfield on it you know like old school but

411
00:34:52,120 --> 00:35:01,080
you know I find that honestly uh if you can mostly just find find passion in what you're doing even

412
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:07,960
if you have to create it I use you think about like a you know a foot doctor right a podiatrist

413
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,640
what does he do all day or she does all day they look at feet yeah they went to how many hours of

414
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,720
medical school to just keep looking at feet all day and their most exciting day is when something's

415
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wrong with your foot yeah it's your worst day is their best day because like oh something exciting

416
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:29,000
exciting I have a problem to solve now right and so I try to tell that to people it's like man if

417
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,640
you're finding if you're struggling finding any interest in this maybe this is not the right job

418
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,680
for you right uh however like have you thought about learning more about soil or you know you

419
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:44,920
could learn about bugs you can learn about mold I mean what do you want to learn about yeah shrubs

420
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,880
trees like it's it's endless there's endless information but I think we've been so conditioned

421
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:59,240
especially for instant gratification and I hate to say it the swipe swipe swipe swipe swipe the doom

422
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:06,280
scrolling man and so it's I understand it why it can be difficult sometimes to connect to a job so

423
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,960
I'm very hardcore about a no phone policy at my company that's a very good policy also being on

424
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:18,440
time there are two things that I feel has gotten lost in society that and you can't text if you

425
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,520
have to call on sick because I think if you physically have to call somebody up and be like

426
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:28,680
I'm not feeling well you know it takes a lot more than just and send yeah like you're sitting in bed

427
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,800
I don't feel too good send out a text yeah it's like common courtesy for the rest of your crew

428
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,120
as well like sometimes you need a day and that makes sense yeah however a lot of times it's

429
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,920
much easier if you could just send it yeah yeah you just add a little bit of friction so that

430
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,840
there's kind of just like a bullshit test yeah in between common courtesy yeah I mean I mean I found

431
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:55,160
so many people that are amazing it's I that's what I mean by it's a mis misnomer in my in my opinion I

432
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,000
really really think that there is a whole generation of people out there that are searching for more

433
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,320
purpose yeah and not just looking for a paperwork push around job because the more stuff you have I

434
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:12,680
hate to tell you guys the more stuff you have the more stuff you have to take care of yep like it's

435
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:18,200
crazy sweeping floors and like the bigger your house the longer it takes to clean it bigger your

436
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:24,680
lawn my yard looks like shit like now you have to go out there and take care of it yeah totally

437
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:32,200
and it's like I think that idea of that pursuit of stuff is really empty really honestly it might

438
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,480
fill you up for like a second like oh that was fun I bought something nice but I set a certain

439
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,040
amount of money that I wanted to make and when I hit that cap I put everything else back into the

440
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,320
company I don't want to just keep making more and more money that's my personal prerogative

441
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,920
I don't say that everyone should do it that way but that makes it so I can continuously give

442
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:59,640
raises to employees like re-funnel that money into the company because what is extra money

443
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,800
gonna get me yeah but having a happy workforce and they're able to afford to go on a vacation or

444
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:13,080
you know the longer you're at this kind of job and I just yeah again false scarcity I can't say

445
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:19,480
that enough where do you think false scarcity comes from I think it comes from a generation of people

446
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:27,560
that were raised by the depression era people right and those were the boomers so then the

447
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:36,040
boomers came in and they were at an economic boom like it was you know we all know the stats

448
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,440
look up the stats I don't feel like going over stats right now however it's like prices of housing

449
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,480
was cheap education was really cheap and their parents just pushed get as much as you can work

450
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,280
as hard as you can and don't like even throw that little bit of coffee out you know like save

451
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,760
everything like hide it under the mattress and it was this feeling of like you don't know when

452
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,880
you could end up with nothing so make sure to save everything and make sure to get as much as you can

453
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:04,280
and score a little way in a big pile and I honestly feel bad for boomers because I think they missed

454
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:13,640
out on a lot of just experiences of just enjoying you know and not just becoming the massive

455
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:20,760
capitalistic game that they've kind of created and complain about I'm not it's not all boomers

456
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:26,600
please please remember I'm not calling anybody out in specific but then along came gen x and we were

457
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,000
like the forgotten feral generation you know it's like the parents both parents were working like

458
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:38,920
crazy earning earning earning and we were like eating tv dinners and honestly like I know it's

459
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,800
sound it's really like we joke because we're the forgotten generation and recently it's been picked

460
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:49,000
up on a little bit but we learned how to play the game but we knew the game was bullshit yeah so like

461
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:56,680
now you've got the next generation down right because the millennials are now like shit like

462
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:03,240
I don't even want to learn the game yeah like this is total crap yeah how did you guys get

463
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:09,240
convinced into this you know and so you know I think that there's a massive sea change happening

464
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:14,760
right now and I do think that the trades are going to be a massive industry that people

465
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,840
uh are are slowly really figuring out and flocking to I mean I have so many college

466
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,240
educated people working for me that are making more doing this job than they would in their

467
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:30,040
field of work that they got a degree for right and something really off about that so I can't

468
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:35,640
change that what I can do is I can change the way my own company functions so that people can afford

469
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:41,320
to live yeah you can at least create a small change in your community even and that has

470
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,040
cascading effects if other people are like oh this is awesome they start their own company they take

471
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,400
inspiration from you and then this continues to grow and I think that you're right that

472
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:59,400
this kind of labor and working in trades is kind of going to go through a resurgence just because

473
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,320
I think gen z is coming into the time where they're like it's all a lot like they don't even want to

474
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:10,680
participate at whatsoever right and they're kind of like what what even is there and a lot of them

475
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,680
really feel like they have no meaning or no purpose and so I think that will kind of rebirth this

476
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:23,800
this working in at something that actually shows something right away right yeah absolutely I hate

477
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,800
to use the word renaissance but I'm hopeful yeah I kind of hope I'm like maybe there's a new

478
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:36,520
renaissance coming where people value things like art and creative things like I have a lot of artists

479
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,800
and musicians and chefs that work for me because it actually really does go hand in hand because

480
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,160
you have to have an aesthetic eye a lot of times and you can kind of know whether you're a musician

481
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,400
or an artist or something like that when something just looks wrong you might not know why it looks

482
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,160
wrong but as long as you're curious and you ask somebody else in the chain and if that person

483
00:41:55,160 --> 00:42:00,200
doesn't know the other person will go find someone else that might know so again that curiosity bit

484
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,200
that I started with I'm just going to like circle that all the way back to the beginning again just

485
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,480
keep staying curious and instead of I'll tell people like instead of doom scrolling on whatever

486
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,400
you doom scroll on I'm not going to name any platforms maybe get on the CSU extension and

487
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:23,320
look on plant talk and see you know the life cycle of you know mycelium yeah I don't know read that

488
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,600
yeah it might be interesting you might actually go wow that's really cool or get a book on shacks

489
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:35,160
I bought this book about like shacks and shanties like how to build shacks and shanties cheese you

490
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:40,440
know why not you know yeah it's like we we have more information than we've ever had before and

491
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,840
information we're being fed is as empty as it's ever been yeah we're using it all wrong and it's

492
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:50,200
causing people all sorts of depression and mental health issues and so I think when you immediately

493
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,520
get somebody in this line of work you get them outside you get them working and sweating you

494
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,680
know their brain can't really function on some of those things you really do become a lot more

495
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:05,320
instinctual yeah yeah you've said you that you throughout your journey you've kind of had issues

496
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:11,320
with getting lost within the weeds like well what is it finding missing the forest for the trees

497
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:20,280
what do you mean by that because I think that a lot of people I was actually talking with my

498
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,880
friend about this who was like a very high achiever and he's going to become a doctor

499
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,920
and he's like down that path and it's like a 10-year long path right and he's very fixated on this

500
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:35,400
goal and I was kind of just asking him questions about like what happens like do you do you feel

501
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,440
like you're kind of waiting on this one goal and kind of just like missing life go by as

502
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,440
as you go towards it and like we kind of debated about this kind of topic so I'm curious to see what

503
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,280
you have to say about like being super fixated on a goal versus actually appreciating where you're at

504
00:43:52,280 --> 00:44:07,800
yeah it that is a daily practice right because I think there was a whole time period that went by

505
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,560
in my life where I realized with my children for instance I joke with them that they're gonna have

506
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:19,640
therapy sessions around this someday you know and in spring we get so busy but it was so important

507
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:25,720
that I needed to be involved and this was a few years ago then when I realized I had missed one

508
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:32,120
of my children's sixth grade graduation ceremonies for work right yeah can't go back can't fix that

509
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,760
it was an important thing that I had to take care of and they didn't understand that right so

510
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,240
especially when you look at it through the eyes of a child however it's important for the child to

511
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:49,960
see though that their parent their mom is working very hard to also make sure that you also don't

512
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,520
want to teach children that they're the most important thing on the planet however a sixth

513
00:44:54,520 --> 00:45:00,600
grade graduation that was too far right so I'm using that as an example and going oh my god I

514
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:06,920
need to make time to go camping this year with them uh you know um and not just let that time

515
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:14,440
pass and it's it's easy to get caught up and work and just keep striving for that and then forget

516
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:21,160
about the the important things like making time to sit down and eat a meal together you know with

517
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:26,920
friends even if you're a single person just with friends or family members or you know most most

518
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,960
people that are entrepreneurs I think the number is like 40 percent of all entrepreneurs deal with

519
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:38,200
severe mental health issues like depression and anxiety right and I think it's because they're

520
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,000
not taking time to take care of themselves right yeah because it feels like guilty pleasure to do

521
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:48,920
that like oh I'm just gonna binge watch a show today you know and then you're like oh if I should

522
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,760
have called all those people back and I could have built a bigger crew and I could have you know had

523
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,760
more money so I could pay more money to others it's just so at some point you just have to check

524
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,320
where you're at and go am I making sure to make time for the things that are important that have

525
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:09,480
nothing to do with my job or else you end up at your job feeling empty as well so over 21 years

526
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:16,040
I've had highs and lows for sure and um I've definitely harmed some relationships in my life

527
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,880
that I mean then again I was 23 when I started my company yeah and so if I knew what I knew then

528
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,520
what I know now maybe things would have gone a little bit differently however yeah it's part of

529
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:32,360
the pitfall of I think any job but you know yeah I think I don't know if that answered that.

530
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,360
A lot of high achievers be they entrepreneurs or in the corporate world or whatever it may be

531
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:45,720
become their own slave masters in some ways where it's like they sit around and they want to go do

532
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,800
this thing but in their head they have this ambient anxiety about like oh I could do more I could do

533
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,760
this I could do this like I'm not working harder I'm not doing this and yeah I know plenty of

534
00:46:54,760 --> 00:47:01,800
entrepreneurs who just kind of only work all the time. It's a bit of a mindset too because when you

535
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,760
find yourself slowing down you know I mean I was from a generation where we didn't get diagnosed

536
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:12,680
on everything that we've got going on. I mean all three of my kids have been a therapy already right

537
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:18,440
my you know my mom's like a counselor so I did still have therapy don't get me wrong uh however

538
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,880
you know recently somebody said I think you're a high functioning ADD ADHD or I always joked that I

539
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:29,800
had the H but maybe not the ADD and I definitely had the OCD so part of that kind of because that

540
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,760
makes your mind just hyper focus on this thing and it you work it all you work the puzzle all the

541
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,640
way through until it's complete you can't leave it alone it's like just let me just move this cup a

542
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:45,400
little bit to the left okay okay now it's good now I can go. So there's a part of you that gets joy

543
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,520
and inspiration from that I don't think it's a negative thing you learn to work within your

544
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:56,200
personality type so if you're looking to run a business just make sure again you pick something

545
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,400
that you genuinely love to do and you're not picking it for the money because you really are

546
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,720
excited when you're done at the end of the day about like yeah like whether you're a restaurateur

547
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:10,600
and you just love making the perfect dish and you see somebody enjoy that dish and that means the

548
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:16,840
world to you or you know again I mean there's just so many jobs out there and so many different

549
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:22,920
fields of work but small businesses are in trouble right now in this country and I'm really nervous

550
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:33,000
to see a world where small businesses start to go away more and more because man then it used to be

551
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,120
the engine of the economy and it's a lot more freedom responsibility equals freedom people

552
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,680
it's true it's one that you got to chew on for a while however know when to pull the brakes and

553
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:50,360
take time to just go camping with your kids or your friends the whole world's not going to

554
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,440
crumple if you disappear for a minute or else you're also doing a really bad job running your company

555
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,920
I've always said that too if you can't leave the company for a day yeah then you've just done a

556
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,720
horrible job training people yeah exactly yeah which again comes right back around at the beginning

557
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:10,120
it's like teaching people what you know and not being fearful that they're going to take it and

558
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,760
steal it from you they can't steal from you what you are they could steal clients but you don't

559
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,360
work with those jerks anyway they're the kind of person that's going to jump ship to take some of

560
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:25,000
your ex employees which has happened it's just not that you don't want to work with those people

561
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,560
either and then there's always another job right around the corner it always happens that way I

562
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:36,840
have a motto in the company and I don't know if it's something that and what do you call it we

563
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,800
always say it always works out it always works out like I don't know if that's like the placebo

564
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,880
effect I don't know if that's the right way of explaining it but it's just saying it's always

565
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,040
work out it's always going to work out it always works out this person leaves there's always another

566
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,600
person here this client leaves there's always a new client over here and it just does and I don't

567
00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:01,720
know if that's what is that magical thinking what would you call that but you know what I'm saying

568
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:07,320
like you're putting it out there yeah as like this is just what it is and it just seems to kind of

569
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,440
work as an oh god everything's gonna go to shit you know and those people if you've noticed a lot

570
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,400
of times things go to shit for them all the time so attraction what is that the law of attraction

571
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,800
right yeah without getting too hippy-dippy about it but just seriously where you put your energy

572
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,960
so if you're like it's always gonna work out yeah I think that's it's also the letting go of your

573
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:33,000
control over the situation if you think it's gonna work out you'll let it go where it does

574
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,920
as opposed to like trying to rein it back in and like kind of putting your hands into what the

575
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,280
world's gonna do right yeah that is perfectly spoken actually I'm gonna steal that

576
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:52,200
seriously it really is that simple yeah and I really like this conversation about responsibility

577
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,840
I was at a philosophy night yesterday with one of my friends and one of the questions we talked

578
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,800
about was kind of what is maturity and then the person I was talking to was like oh it's

579
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,840
about responsibility it's about taking ownership but I added kind of an addendum to it which was

580
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,720
like but it's also keeping this enthusiasm and joyfulness while saying yes to everything

581
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,680
it's not just the responsibility because you get lost in that you are the workhorse you are the

582
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,200
one person who's like I have this to do I have that to do I have all these things I need to get

583
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:30,200
done and you'll get a lot done but will you have fun while doing it yeah yeah and again that's

584
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:36,840
not a way to live really it's not a sustaining way to live stress is the biggest killer oh yeah

585
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:44,120
especially in a corporate grinding American culture yeah our our country's definitely got

586
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:49,320
a couple things kind of wrong with it in terms of what they have prioritized I mean food used to be

587
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:57,720
back you know the 50s and 40s 50s or whatever like a quarter of your budget right yeah that

588
00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:04,120
is not the case anymore they made food so dirt cheap so people stopped appreciating what it took

589
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:14,680
to get that food to the table right that is it's bad yeah it's bad and so appreciating you know

590
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:21,080
whatever job that is I don't know where I'm going with this but again 50% of all nurseries

591
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:29,240
in the country have closed over the last decade I didn't know that yeah it's really scary they

592
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:34,840
can't get the labor force to do it they can't convince their next generation of children to

593
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:41,640
take it on or get people to buy it because it's a really hard job and so we're gonna start having

594
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:47,480
shortages of plant materials you know during COVID I had clients that were offering me

595
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:53,640
crazy sums of money to get their hands on a specific plant and I said they just don't exist

596
00:52:53,640 --> 00:53:00,040
they don't exist yeah these big tall evergreens take 20 years to get that big you might as well

597
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,520
buy the eight foot one because by the time they have ones available that one's going to be that

598
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:10,040
height because that's where everything was because they had to turn over all these crops back in 2008

599
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:15,240
when the recession hit and it's just this chain reaction it was all across North America I mean

600
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:21,800
we're talking Canada Mexico Central America like nowhere you could find certain large-scale

601
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:27,480
certain large-scale plant material things so it was kind of funny though too in a way because

602
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,960
say to a really rich person like I don't care how much money you have you can't buy it

603
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:39,800
yeah it's just not not existing anymore because I think the the commoditization of a lot of things

604
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,040
kind of takes away the appreciation for it like I can uber eats food to my house

605
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,320
do you really appreciate what it took to get that food or is it just a click on your button

606
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,680
on your phone yeah and yeah it's just to get the disconnection from what's important I always say

607
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,200
being human really digging into the human experience has been the the greatest gift that

608
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:10,520
I've given myself which is you know plants animals music uh children you know friendship

609
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:18,840
nature all of that like the things that are very human are just so important to enjoy while you're

610
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:26,280
here you know just stuff is not you know stuff's not that important really at the end of the day

611
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:34,280
nobody puts on their graves son I wish I would have worked harder yeah yeah right yeah so maybe

612
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:42,440
just an adjustment of how much you really need right um yeah I I caution and I caution anybody

613
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:47,480
going into business to make sure that you're not doing it for the money that that should not be your

614
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:54,600
first that should never be the first line on reasons to do this well yeah nobody wishes they

615
00:54:54,600 --> 00:55:01,400
had more money when they die no that's useless um you said you grew up in a chaotic and unhealthy

616
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:08,200
kind of family how did that impact your upbringing and then what you ended up doing is your career

617
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:14,360
and what was it what was it kind of like to grow up in the family well yeah I like I went to

618
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:22,360
11 different schools growing up and lived in eight states in two countries 35 houses by the time I

619
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:30,360
was 21 years old and I always just sort of felt like nothing was ever solid or stable

620
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,320
which is I think why I got really into this idea of building this company in a way to make it so

621
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:41,160
solid and stable that it was something I could count on and rely on and it was in my hands it

622
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,800
and it was in my hands it wasn't out of my control so when you grow up feeling like you have no

623
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,600
control over these things and you brought up the control thing earlier and it is true sometimes

624
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:55,160
so it's kind of a mind screw because on one hand I had to learn to be really good at it like okay no

625
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,640
we're gonna do it this way and I know it's gonna work however you have to like on the flip side

626
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:06,200
let it go sometimes and release that control and just sort of like let your hands open up and go

627
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:14,440
okay whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen so uh yeah and I think there was also a feeling of

628
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,080
working harder than I needed to work in order to prove myself because I didn't have a degree or

629
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:28,360
you know that imposter syndrome thing again right so not getting you know a lot of therapy really

630
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:38,040
helped but honestly just I think just learning that um somebody said to me recently they wish

631
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:42,280
they had had my childhood I was trying to figure out they said I think my parents hugged me too

632
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:47,560
much and my head just got a spun I'm like what are you talking about like seriously what do you

633
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:55,000
mean you got hugged too much and told that you were great like I just got lazy like if I had to

634
00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:00,040
have your chaotic crazy childhood you know living on your own at 15 already like cooking for yourself

635
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:05,400
and working and figuring stuff out you know I mean I was still in high school the first little bit

636
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:10,760
until they kicked me out uh but that's why I was like I'm not gonna go to my 12th school at this

637
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:17,240
point so I was like I'm out why'd they kick you out uh for immunizations that's what they said

638
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:23,240
they didn't want me there they didn't they didn't like me too they didn't like the idea that I was

639
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,680
living on myself like on my own honestly and I was getting okay grades but they were the number one

640
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,880
high school in Toronto and I think they thought I was bringing their their stats down and there was

641
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:39,080
just one teacher that really just didn't like me and so they told me I couldn't come back to school

642
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:44,360
until I got my immunizations and it said I had 10 days on I was like so I was like oh I'm gonna take

643
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,960
at least one or two days to screw around by d3 they're like uh Sarah didn't come back to school

644
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:55,160
so they called my mom and my mom's like they said that you stopped coming to school and so they

645
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:59,720
kicked you out because you're 16 now so they don't need to keep you there and it was a month before

646
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,040
school was out too so and so I was gonna lose all those credits for my 11th grade year and I just

647
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:09,400
was like no and I can't start over again if I'm going to be in charge I wanted to be in charge

648
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:14,280
of myself at that point I thought that I could do a better job than these parents were doing

649
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:19,720
than these adults these so-called adults in the room I said I think I got this and so yeah I had

650
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,920
a really really strong work ethic and just knew that I would never be beholden to anybody or be

651
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:32,360
under somebody else's rule yeah it's weird yeah and so I understood what my friend was saying on

652
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:39,000
one hand right that they wish that they had had that motivator and on another hand you know the

653
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:45,080
anxiety and the depression I could live without yeah I think the problem is you you had a lot of

654
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:51,160
fuel but it wasn't sustainable fuel right yeah like you had things you were running from things

655
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:56,440
you were trying to get to and it was this whole thing where it's kind of survival right yeah like

656
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:03,640
and it works and it works it works to get to become successful to do the things but at the

657
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:08,680
end of the day probably caused you a lot of pain and suffering throughout that entire time oh yeah

658
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:13,560
you cannot live on adrenaline like that it's really bad for your physical system it's really

659
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:18,760
bad for your mental system so yeah I had to then rely on a community of people and get better at

660
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:24,280
trusting the people around me and saying please help like there's a really cool thing that I've

661
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:29,000
built here and I think if we all kind of chip in we all could end up living a pretty good life by

662
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:34,680
taking care of this so I always say that native earth isn't me it's everyone right and I think

663
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:40,680
that's what my saving grace was but it took me having three kids I think to to break me

664
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:46,440
in terms of like I can't do this anymore on my own like I have to spread out all these responsibilities

665
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:53,800
so you know the job that I used to do now it takes four people to do my job yeah and I still

666
00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:00,680
do parts of the job right I'm still doing like R&D and development and all that stuff but you know

667
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:06,040
I look back and I'm I don't I don't know how sometimes I did it so I don't recommend

668
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:11,640
you know killing yourself over doing a business but there is going to be hard times there are

669
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:17,640
going to be 60 70 hour weeks sometimes and that's okay yeah just don't let it go too long if your

670
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:22,760
body starts screaming at you yeah you know yeah don't make them a thing that's always there

671
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:28,760
yeah exactly and that takes relying on your community you know yeah relying on other people

672
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:33,560
that you've trained you've taught them yeah you've done all of that to bring it full for full

673
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:39,160
circle yeah because I again people have gotten more and more separated out and this job is so

674
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:43,240
great because everybody's so interactive you know they just have time to sort of hang out and talk

675
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:50,040
and they're doing work and it's like a lot of that's a lot of smaller companies so yeah I

676
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,040
could get spun out on this for way too long why were you living on your own at 15

677
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,680
because I went through a year of high school oh god if I'm being really honest um

678
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:06,840
so when I was in high school I well I had originally lived with my dad and my stepmom for a while

679
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:13,560
and my stepmom was really abusive uh like a really severe alcoholic and physically and mentally

680
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,640
abusive and I kind of hid it for a long time but eventually I couldn't hide it anymore

681
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:23,160
and my grades were so bad and the school was so confused so they made me take all the specialized

682
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:28,920
testing to find out if I was like needed to be in you know the special education system

683
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:35,960
to be in you know the special um what do they call it now my sister's special education teacher

684
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:41,080
right special ed and so when they tested me they saw that I was like three grade levels ahead of

685
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,640
everything and so then they were like something's going wrong at home and so that snowballed and

686
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:50,920
opened up the whole thing so I eventually then ended up in Canada with my mom but I was so broken

687
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,920
at that point even though my home life was a lot more stable the the damage had been done right

688
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:03,480
at that point so I would sit in the bathroom instead of go to class I just like sit with my

689
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,120
feet up on the toilet and eventually they figured out they're like how did you have 88 absences

690
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:14,280
where were you it's Canada you can't go outside it's freezing out I get in the bathroom by like

691
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,320
the you know the shop class at the way end of the school that you know nobody you ever went to

692
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,000
and my mom's like wow this is not working for you you need to find something that's going to work

693
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:29,400
for you you know your grades are horrific and she found this art school in Toronto um and pretty

694
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:35,240
much just brought me there at 15 and they had done the auditions the year before and they were like

695
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:39,560
we're not going to audition anybody new and she's like no you just have to hear her sing and I sang

696
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:45,720
and they're like okay we'll let you in the school um so I started off on a really unsettled foot on

697
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:52,920
that one and then yeah I was renting little apartments and taking two subways and two buses

698
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,480
you know an hour and a half commute each direction to get to high school I thought I was doing great

699
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,360
that's why I was really pissed when they expelled me it's like I got a c average it's really great

700
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:08,280
for me yeah but yeah and then at that point I decided I just I didn't want to live with

701
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:15,160
parents anymore and so you know I moved to New York City uh for a while and then I moved to

702
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:23,400
San Francisco and you know checked out the two coasts and yeah it's a long complicated story but

703
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:30,200
I found Colorado which was amazing and there's something about this state that I don't know what

704
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,320
it is I love to travel still I travel all the time it's like it keeps me from trying to move

705
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:40,680
all the time yeah if you actually go out and see the world yeah yeah I'm going to Turkey in just

706
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:45,720
a couple of weeks so I've heard great things about yeah I went to Egypt last year and I'm trying to

707
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:52,920
do again self-care right so it's like making sure to do those things um but yeah it you know I

708
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:59,000
I say this because you know I don't want to throw anybody under the bus in my life either

709
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,800
you know it's always one of those delicate subjects but my parents thought that I was

710
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:08,680
smart enough to be able to take care of myself and in some respects they were right but in a

711
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:13,240
lot of respects they were wrong because I have now a 16 year old child she's going to be 16 in a few

712
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:21,240
weeks and I look at her and I go I was that age yeah oh my fucking god sorry I look at her I'm

713
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:29,640
like dude you could barely keep your room clean how would you survive out there so I kept thinking

714
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,800
that you know my sister always says that we were raised as feral children you know we were the

715
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:39,160
feral generation so I think I was just given a lot of tools at a very young age on how to manage

716
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:45,000
high stress situations so I think it grew my instincts so that I got really good at seeing

717
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:50,360
people and reading people and knowing when things were safe or not safe so it made me a little bit

718
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:57,480
of a control freak too however I'm working on that right now by necessity it sounds like right it was

719
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:04,120
literally out of necessity so lemons lemonade you know it's like I might as well use this brain that

720
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:10,360
developed in a way to see the whole spider web of various ways that the world could go and get over

721
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:15,400
my imposter syndrome and go for it yeah it's a very entrepreneurial thing to do yeah take what

722
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:20,360
you have and make something of it and then make sure to get good people around you trust them you

723
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:25,400
know it's that's that's it you can't do it by yourself you cannot yeah do you still talk to

724
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,920
your parents uh-huh yeah my mom lives six minutes from here oh that's awesome she moved here to be

725
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:39,320
close to me and my sister moved here too my father no no no no the last time I talked to him I think

726
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:46,360
he finished it was for father's day and I don't even know what happened it was pretty funny like

727
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:52,040
something about politics never talked politics I don't know he just was like fuck you sir and hung

728
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:59,880
up the phone like hello hello dad you still there and so and that was the last conversation

729
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:05,080
I had one other I found out from my other sister that he had a heart condition hole in his heart

730
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,560
and so I found out through Facebook so I thought I'd reach out to him at least once to be like

731
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:17,000
are you dead man are you dying I was like I used to love you you know I don't really want to talk to

732
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:21,400
you but you are still my dad and he was all sheepish like oh it's really nice to you to check in

733
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:26,920
again part of that generation man they got really the boomers I don't know what happened to a bunch

734
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:34,280
of them they got they got really injured so I hold no grudges forgiveness comes for yourself I know

735
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:40,520
everybody's heard that but it's it's true it is so true you don't forgive for that other person you

736
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:47,000
do it so that you can move on because those things will keep you making decisions based upon scenarios

737
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:55,800
that are no longer real you know so and good therapy yeah uh find good therapists too not bad

738
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:03,720
therapists if they start talking about themselves in therapy you run yeah they're just using you as

739
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:10,360
a therapist one of the traditions we have on the podcast is kind of coming to the end of the episode

740
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:15,480
is the guest will make a small carrot for themselves is what we call it that is a two-week

741
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:20,840
challenge that encourages them to live more bravely more fearlessly that they could accomplish within

742
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:26,920
two weeks and so my question to you is what do you think would be a good challenge for you to

743
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:41,480
live more more bravely oh my gosh I think I know this one so a friend pointed this out to me recently

744
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:49,640
so I'm going through a pretty big transition in my life right now and I I've been told I can beat

745
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:57,880
a dead horse like I kind of get wrapped up in thinking I can solve some things so I think it

746
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:04,760
more has to do with uh saying really nice things and about myself I know that sounds weird but it's

747
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:09,400
really hard for me to do that I don't even really own a full-length mirror you know yeah I know that

748
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,720
sounds weird but looking in the mirror and just being like you know the Stuart Smalley like you're

749
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:18,920
good enough you're smart enough and gosh darn it people like you um I think the carrot would be just

750
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:24,200
gentle to myself because it's been really rough the last couple of weeks but that feels like such

751
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,520
a big broad thing to say how are you how am I gonna know that I did that I guess I would just

752
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:33,960
catch myself being hard on myself it might be being mindful being mindful like catching

753
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,680
catching the moments where you're harsh on yourself and maybe like take a note on your phone

754
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:43,240
like well like that oh I was being mean to myself and that's it that's the whole thing

755
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:50,280
yeah it's incredible how we talk to ourselves being mindful of then how I'm talking to myself

756
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:54,440
that I think that's a better way of putting it thank you yeah mindfulness of how I'm talking

757
01:08:54,440 --> 01:08:59,000
to myself yeah even if I say something mean I just have to write it down I mean like yeah

758
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:06,040
I said something mean I said something mean today yeah it's okay yeah I think that would be a really

759
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:11,000
good challenge to do one of the other things that we do is you also attach a carrot or no a stick

760
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:16,360
which is the accountability portion which is kind of something that you don't want to happen that if

761
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:22,520
you go these next two weeks and you're not really able to do that then you might have to do something

762
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:27,560
hard or you might have to like I don't know do a really hard workout do a cold plunge do something

763
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:44,040
that is on something you don't want to do oh uh I hate hiking up mountains manatee incline yeah

764
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:49,800
for some reason my dad bought us on death marches in the desert as kids so I love river walks me okay

765
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:55,080
yeah I could do that because I love to be I love exercise but okay if I can't do that then I have

766
01:09:55,080 --> 01:10:01,720
to go maybe a hike up mount sinitas and boulder yeah because it's an easy one but it's still an

767
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:08,040
incline yeah it's doable set a doable goal but yes my friend hikes are like every week too she's

768
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:16,440
always asking me to go come walk with me I'm like no yeah I love hiking I actually do really enjoy

769
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:22,040
it I like hiking you know like on a flat surface yeah I don't know it's so I don't think we would

770
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:26,680
call that hiking right it's like childhood trauma right you don't realize how it really affects you

771
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:31,640
over some really dumb stuff because I was so little and everybody was so much older than me

772
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,880
my dad would bring us into the desert walking through cactus up mountains and the caves and

773
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,120
stuff and they always said that I would like I could walk two miles by the time I was two years

774
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,760
old without anybody picking me up so there was almost this like they took the joy out of it

775
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,680
that leaves no more fun no I could walk for hours and hours along a river and bushwhack I love

776
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:55,560
bushwhacking that's fun yeah but yeah all right I can I can do that sounds good I can do all right

777
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:59,800
well thank you for coming on it's been great talking to you yeah thank you for having people

778
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:05,800
find out about you get in contact with you if you're interested in that uh I guess my website

779
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:13,160
nativeearthco.com it's nice and simple yeah I'll link it when we post this up yeah we have a there's

780
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:20,600
a button on there to contact um yeah if anybody I mean I'm looking I've been mentoring people

781
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:26,200
again recently too I think passing it along uh was something that I've been wanting to do so I was

782
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:31,640
trained by other amazing people and you know I've been looking to take on the next generation of

783
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:37,320
people other than just my you know people that work for me yeah right yeah so if you're interested

784
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:43,000
in finding a mentor in horticulture doing some gardening or not even me I know a lot of really

785
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:54,760
cool mentors too reach out to Sarah yeah awesome thank you thank you