WEBVTT 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:14.839 What would happen if instead of composing predetermined 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.039 assignments, college composition students could 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.559 compose whatever they want to compose? What would 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.539 happen if students could set their own deadlines 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:29.440 and grade their own work? Find out as assistant 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:33.159 professor Mason Joiner and I explore these questions 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:36.100 with a few of our fellow English department colleagues. 00:00:40.380 --> 00:01:05.500 is the English 101 experiment. All right, well, 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:10.019 it's November 2nd. Another smoky day in New Orleans. 00:01:10.219 --> 00:01:13.599 Oh, yeah. What is it, a marsh fire? That's what 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:16.019 I was told. Yeah, a swamp fire. Yeah, it's really 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.879 stinky outside. Fire on the bayou. I mean, I 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:20.480 don't love the fire, of course, but I do like 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:24.879 the smell. Kind of campfire smell. Yeah. Comforting. 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.879 I don't know. It's like really intense, though. 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:29.719 Like I was walking to work this morning and I'm 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:32.640 like, I might be sick. because it's just so strong 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:34.400 smells like things that aren't supposed to be 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.060 burning yeah definitely probably don't go for 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.299 a jog in it you know no definitely not smells 00:01:40.299 --> 00:01:42.420 nice in here though yeah it's all right it's 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:45.480 okay it's all right yeah the studio is a nice 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:50.780 place on our campus um all right so we are here 00:01:50.780 --> 00:01:54.280 for episode three of the english 101 experiment 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:58.170 i am monica mankin Associate Professor of English 00:01:58.170 --> 00:02:01.049 at Delgado Community College. I'm Mason Joiner, 00:02:01.230 --> 00:02:03.409 Assistant Professor of English at Delgado Community 00:02:03.409 --> 00:02:06.109 College. I, too, am an Assistant Professor of 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:08.169 English at Delgado. My name is Andrew Gibbs. 00:02:08.370 --> 00:02:10.990 And I'm Abby Wallig, Associate Professor here 00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:13.250 at Delgado. All right. Well, we're really happy 00:02:13.250 --> 00:02:15.949 to have you both here with us today to talk about 00:02:15.949 --> 00:02:21.060 what happens day to day in our classes. And we 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.400 appreciate the work you put into preparing for 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:26.379 this conversation. So I think I'm just going 00:02:26.379 --> 00:02:28.620 to be quiet and let you all take it away. Yeah, 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.620 thanks for having us. It's been fun to hear about 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:33.580 the project from afar, and I'm looking forward 00:02:33.580 --> 00:02:35.819 to hearing more about it today. I guess we'll 00:02:35.819 --> 00:02:38.759 start just very basic. What's your average class 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:40.919 look like on a day -to -day basis? How does it 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:46.120 begin? Yeah, I'll start. So one thing I started 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.300 this semester that I... have been enjoying and 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:51.539 I think has worked with three out of four of 00:02:51.539 --> 00:02:54.360 my classes is I start by putting on music and 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:56.500 having everyone get up and say good morning to 00:02:56.500 --> 00:03:00.259 each other. And I generally have like a little 00:03:00.259 --> 00:03:02.479 list of like conversation prompts. So like this 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.560 morning, you know, ask somebody what's their 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:07.460 usual order at Starbucks, you know, that kind 00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:10.199 of thing. As you say good morning. So that's 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.419 how we began. And I think it's sort of helped 00:03:12.419 --> 00:03:15.479 to create a sense of community. Although for 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.580 those, there's like one 8 o 'clock section that 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:21.099 just is not into it. 8 a .m., they want to sit 00:03:21.099 --> 00:03:24.919 down and not speak. But anyway, overall, it's 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.219 been a great experience starting off that way. 00:03:27.419 --> 00:03:31.659 What songs have you used? Okay, so... Can we 00:03:31.659 --> 00:03:33.979 mention copyrighted music? I suppose. This is 00:03:33.979 --> 00:03:36.620 for educational purposes, so I think we can get 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:39.840 away with it. I started with The Dance by Kurt 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:44.060 Elling. It's a very short, uplifting jazz piece 00:03:44.060 --> 00:03:48.580 about one and a half minutes long. And I made 00:03:48.580 --> 00:03:51.560 a playlist. But when I ran out of my playlist, 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:54.740 I just started putting on lo -fi beats from YouTube. 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:58.199 And I've also gotten in the habit of having lo 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:00.680 -fi beats on almost the whole class and just 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.199 turning them up when they're writing, turning 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:05.979 it back down when we need to hear somebody speaking 00:04:05.979 --> 00:04:07.919 and that kind of thing. So that I've really enjoyed. 00:04:08.060 --> 00:04:10.560 Where are our lo -fi beats? Can't you hear them? 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.979 Put them in in post. What else do we do day to 00:04:14.979 --> 00:04:17.620 day? Yeah, so one thing that, well, I had big 00:04:17.620 --> 00:04:19.560 ideas about what I was going to do every day 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.040 and it hasn't quite gotten that way. We started 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:24.459 strong with journaling. So we were journaling 00:04:24.459 --> 00:04:27.480 every day. to kind of get us started. And ideally, 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.899 and I think in the spring I will be better at 00:04:29.899 --> 00:04:31.920 doing this, but I wanted to kind of start every 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:34.920 day with kind of a prompt or some kind of quote 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:36.959 that captures sort of the theme or the purpose 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:39.060 of what we're going to be doing. And then we 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:43.259 move into some kind of reading or, I mean, it 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:44.819 could be a video that we're reading together 00:04:44.819 --> 00:04:50.139 or something more scholarly or a poem. But something 00:04:50.139 --> 00:04:51.839 that's going to get us to talk about writing 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.720 and maybe even practice using some of the composition 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.360 elements we see at work in that text and then 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.420 reflecting on that. So all of this would ideally 00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:01.879 be just happening in their journal as a way of 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:04.860 documenting what happened that day and kind of 00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:06.699 allowing the students to be sort of the note 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:09.519 generators, the knowledge generators, instead 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.040 of me coming in and saying, OK, so today I'm 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.240 going to teach you how to write a summary. I'll 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.959 write all this down. Right. Yeah. But it's just 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.769 kind of like... one of those things when you 00:05:20.769 --> 00:05:23.009 are experimenting, you never know quite what's 00:05:23.009 --> 00:05:26.009 going to happen. But I started the semester with 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:28.610 a quote that's on my syllabus, and it's from 00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:31.850 Rumi, and it says, as you start to walk on the 00:05:31.850 --> 00:05:35.129 way, the way appears. And so during that first 00:05:35.129 --> 00:05:37.709 week of class, we journaled about this quote 00:05:37.709 --> 00:05:40.670 and what it kind of meant to us, what we kind 00:05:40.670 --> 00:05:43.629 of reinterpreted it, paraphrased, if you want 00:05:43.629 --> 00:05:46.569 to use academic terms, and just sort of talked 00:05:46.569 --> 00:05:48.430 about how this applies to life and how it applies 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:50.410 to competition. and why we need to kind of keep 00:05:50.410 --> 00:05:52.189 this in mind as we move forward in the course 00:05:52.189 --> 00:05:55.410 because it is an experiment and things are going 00:05:55.410 --> 00:05:58.170 to evolve like as we keep moving forward the 00:05:58.170 --> 00:06:00.449 path will reveal itself to us but I cannot tell 00:06:00.449 --> 00:06:02.889 you exactly what that path looks like today during 00:06:02.889 --> 00:06:05.389 our first week of class so I think that kind 00:06:05.389 --> 00:06:09.189 of helped them just be ready for you know just 00:06:09.189 --> 00:06:11.250 the point is to just show up and keep moving 00:06:11.250 --> 00:06:13.050 forward and if you're doing that you're gonna 00:06:13.050 --> 00:06:15.949 be fine did they seem open to the loose end yeah 00:06:17.190 --> 00:06:19.370 I also used that quote after you shared it with 00:06:19.370 --> 00:06:21.329 me, Monica. And yeah, I thought that was a really 00:06:21.329 --> 00:06:25.569 lovely like week one writing prompt. And I think 00:06:25.569 --> 00:06:27.910 they all really got something out of that idea 00:06:27.910 --> 00:06:31.029 of just we don't know where this path is going 00:06:31.029 --> 00:06:34.449 quite, but we're walking it, you know. Yeah. 00:06:35.250 --> 00:06:37.149 Yeah. And we're doing it together. So, yeah, 00:06:37.230 --> 00:06:38.810 when you're showing up and we're all in it together, 00:06:38.949 --> 00:06:42.069 it just feels it feels better, you know. Cool. 00:06:42.129 --> 00:06:45.250 I love it. I see in bold, a course is a way, 00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:48.069 a route, a journey. Sometimes we get off course. 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:52.990 I believe this is from Monica's notes. If the 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:57.209 course is the way, can you ever get off course? 00:06:58.009 --> 00:07:01.730 That's a great philosophical question to consider. 00:07:02.930 --> 00:07:05.089 I guess, yeah. I mean, then we question, what 00:07:05.089 --> 00:07:08.370 does that mean to get off course? I don't think 00:07:08.370 --> 00:07:10.949 we have gone off course, but I think allowing 00:07:10.949 --> 00:07:16.449 for that space of getting lost. is really kind 00:07:16.449 --> 00:07:18.290 of important because that's sometimes where we 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:20.310 learn things that we didn't really anticipate 00:07:20.310 --> 00:07:23.910 learning. But I just was really attracted to 00:07:23.910 --> 00:07:26.050 this idea. This is also on the syllabus, not 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:27.930 the sometimes we get off course. That was me 00:07:27.930 --> 00:07:30.209 just kind of adding to this idea. But when I 00:07:30.209 --> 00:07:32.670 have on my syllabus where it kind of explains 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:35.350 what we're doing this semester, this is the heading 00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:38.329 that a course is a way, a route, a journey, because 00:07:38.329 --> 00:07:42.009 I really wanted to plant that idea and reinforce 00:07:42.009 --> 00:07:44.819 it with the quotation from Rumi. This is a one 00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:47.600 foot in front of the other kind of process, which 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:49.600 I think has worked well for how we've been moving 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:51.319 through the course through the writing process 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:54.459 itself. Like at the beginning, I think the journal 00:07:54.459 --> 00:07:56.639 was a lot easier to maintain because we were. 00:07:57.149 --> 00:07:59.490 We were doing generative work and we were doing 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:02.810 practice exercises, a lot of style imitations 00:08:02.810 --> 00:08:06.269 to kind of feel out how to use different elements 00:08:06.269 --> 00:08:09.670 of style to create tone, to think about our purpose 00:08:09.670 --> 00:08:12.370 and our audience a little bit more deeply as 00:08:12.370 --> 00:08:14.970 students were also developing their ideas for 00:08:14.970 --> 00:08:17.089 their projects and thinking about who those projects 00:08:17.089 --> 00:08:19.629 would be for and how they might deliver them 00:08:19.629 --> 00:08:23.990 to their specific audiences. Another thing that 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:27.939 I like about that idea about the... If the course 00:08:27.939 --> 00:08:29.819 is the journey, can you ever get off course? 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:34.480 And maybe this goes into my teaching or grading 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:38.860 philosophy a little bit, but that if you have 00:08:38.860 --> 00:08:42.200 undergone the course, then I think you've succeeded. 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:47.620 Regardless of the quote -unquote quality of what 00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:51.100 you've produced in the course, having undergone 00:08:51.100 --> 00:08:54.240 the course I feel like is a success. Success 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.019 is in the attempt. Yeah, exactly. Not the result, 00:08:57.100 --> 00:09:01.360 right? Yes, yes. No, it's a good metaphor. And 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.740 I think I've likened myself before to some sort 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:06.080 of mile marker or like trail guide. And you do 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.000 kind of feel like you are pointing in the right 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.639 direction or hopefully in the right direction 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:15.259 as a professor. Other things to elaborate on 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:19.600 the trail metaphor? Well, I think the checkpoint, 00:09:19.820 --> 00:09:21.779 right? We have these sort of conference checkpoints 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:24.059 along the way, so they are kind of like the mile 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:28.960 marker, right? The refugio. They have to check 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.480 in with us along the way. We talked a little 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.440 bit about this in our last episode, where how 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.440 are we monitoring these projects, and this is 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.379 really one of the ways. The conferencing element 00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:44.009 is very important to that. Sorry, go ahead, Andrew. 00:09:44.090 --> 00:09:46.409 No, I was just thinking as we go day to day, 00:09:46.450 --> 00:09:48.490 it seems like we're very open to just letting 00:09:48.490 --> 00:09:50.690 the day unfold, the lesson unfold, and seeing 00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:54.830 where that takes us. Great approach. I see the 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:57.389 logic behind it. I also see the potential for 00:09:57.389 --> 00:10:02.210 a lot of anxiety about the unknown and the uncertainty 00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:05.110 of what lies ahead. Has that been a problem for 00:10:05.110 --> 00:10:11.210 y 'all? Back in week one, I gave them a list 00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:15.840 of... My expectations for them, and one of those 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:21.419 expectations was that you be open to, oh gosh, 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:23.919 I forget my exact wording, but being open to 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:29.019 the unfamiliar. And so I think that's that anxiety 00:10:29.019 --> 00:10:31.279 that you're referring to. I think we sort of 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.159 addressed explicitly. From the beginning, uh 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:40.320 -huh. And just being aware that... that the stakes 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.799 are not high when we're in class, you know, that 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:47.600 we're focusing a lot on experimentation. And 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:50.320 so any of that anxiety of not knowing, you know, 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.820 what's going to come, sort of acknowledging it 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:57.679 hopefully quells that anxiety a bit. Right. Talking 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:59.480 about the unknown and that it's there and that 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:03.659 it's okay. Right. I see. That makes sense. I 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:05.419 think also one of the, I mean, I guess this question 00:11:05.419 --> 00:11:09.720 is about student anxiety. I think one of the 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.500 things that tends to make students anxious are 00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:13.860 deadlines, right? It's this kind of thing. And 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:15.879 since they are completely in control of that, 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:17.980 I mean, we talked a lot about the only two we 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:20.179 can't negotiate are midterm and final grade deadlines 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.360 because I can't change those. So we have to work 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:26.179 with them. But they've been in control of that. 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.080 And then the checkpoints, there's like a range 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:31.200 of time for them to come have those conferences 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:34.139 within that range so that there's a lot of flexibility 00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:37.909 about when things are getting feedback. which 00:11:37.909 --> 00:11:40.110 I think that has helped them because they're 00:11:40.110 --> 00:11:41.789 in control. So if they know they have like a 00:11:41.789 --> 00:11:44.970 major test or like midterm week was really awful 00:11:44.970 --> 00:11:47.110 for a lot of my students for the number of tests 00:11:47.110 --> 00:11:49.190 they were having to take, but they didn't have 00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:51.009 to worry about it because they had set their 00:11:51.009 --> 00:11:53.169 deadlines around that so that it wasn't like 00:11:53.169 --> 00:11:55.370 I was also collecting some major assessment. 00:11:56.830 --> 00:11:59.450 So I think in some ways this is one of the least. 00:12:00.190 --> 00:12:03.330 anxiety -ridden semesters I've experienced with 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:06.090 students. Monica asked, whose anxiety are we 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:09.629 talking about? With a 101 experiment, I can think 00:12:09.629 --> 00:12:12.769 of a few professors who would have a lot of anxiety 00:12:12.769 --> 00:12:15.850 with the unknown, so that's a two -way street. 00:12:16.149 --> 00:12:19.330 I even might put myself in that category. I think 00:12:19.330 --> 00:12:21.490 Emerson says the health of the eye demands a 00:12:21.490 --> 00:12:25.039 horizon. um and when i'm thinking about assignments 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:27.299 and deadlines i do find myself kind of working 00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:29.700 backwards knowing that okay we have to be at 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:32.419 this point in three weeks then where do we need 00:12:32.419 --> 00:12:36.399 to be in two in one and then the minutiae you 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.919 know within those days and class periods um so 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:44.399 Are you working backwards less and just kind 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.799 of letting it develop brick by brick and all 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:49.440 of a sudden you have a coliseum or what's going 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.279 on? I think Monica can attest that I've certainly 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.039 undergone some anxiety over this project certain 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.379 weeks more than others, and I think that's part 00:12:59.379 --> 00:13:02.860 of it. And at some point I did have to think 00:13:02.860 --> 00:13:04.820 about, yeah, I did have to work backwards a little 00:13:04.820 --> 00:13:07.440 bit, especially nearing we're in the second half 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.899 of the semester, really almost the second. the 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:13.039 final quarter of the semester. And so I had to 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:14.980 think about, all right, we still need to talk 00:13:14.980 --> 00:13:18.200 about self -evaluation. We still need to workshop 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.139 rough drafts in class. And so I sort of had to 00:13:21.139 --> 00:13:25.139 work backwards a bit, excluding week 16 for final 00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:28.000 exams, excluding week 15 for Thanksgiving, and 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.240 figure out, all right, we've got a limited amount 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.659 of time, and I still definitely need to take 00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:38.340 them through these processes. That helped me, 00:13:38.419 --> 00:13:41.460 yes. But yes, especially around the middle of 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:43.620 the semester, I was feeling pretty anxious about 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:47.700 what we were accomplishing. But you're feeling 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:49.480 better now? A little bit better. Why are you 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:55.480 feeling a little bit better? Well, in regards 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.399 to a little bit and not a lot. Completely better. 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:02.019 We're at that point in the semester where I think 00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:06.480 we're losing a lot of students to just... Maybe 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:10.700 they're giving up. It's a war of attrition. And 00:14:10.700 --> 00:14:15.259 so I was hoping for less of that with this project. 00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:19.139 I was hoping this experiment would encourage 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:27.779 more completion. A magic ticket. So that's been 00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:32.960 a result that differed from my expectation. That's 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.840 been tough to bear. Your own self -reflection 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.919 is going to be important. Okay, yes. So that's 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:44.860 a bit about that. Well, it sounds like the project's 00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:51.259 not going too well. Am I overreaching? I think 00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:53.720 we're having very different experiences. We've 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:55.580 been kind of comparing notes along the way, and 00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:58.080 we haven't really dug deep into maybe what some 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.000 of these factors are. I know we haven't done 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:04.259 everything exactly the same way either. We've 00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:07.419 also talked a lot about how everyone is going 00:15:07.419 --> 00:15:11.600 to kind of teach who they are. So that also plays 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.299 a part in how your students are responding. So 00:15:14.299 --> 00:15:17.220 if your students are sensing your anxiety or 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.600 your... Lack of confidence. And I don't know 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:20.659 that that's what's happening. I'm just saying 00:15:20.659 --> 00:15:25.279 as an example that that plays a rough part. I'm 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.759 also like in all computer classrooms all the 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.240 time. So I've been able to really like give my 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:34.009 students that time. in my presence to actually 00:15:34.009 --> 00:15:36.990 compose and to kind of confer with them while 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:39.549 that process was happening I don't I don't think 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:41.350 you're in a computer classroom except for like 00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:44.409 your studio time correct right so there's just 00:15:44.409 --> 00:15:47.830 a lot that plays into what's happening with the 00:15:47.830 --> 00:15:50.210 results and I think this is the first semester 00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:54.039 we're doing this so I don't know If it's really 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.039 a fair expectation that it's going to somehow 00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.679 magically change all these problems that we encounter 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.820 with students, I don't even think that was the 00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:03.860 goal of the experiment. But I think expectations 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:08.039 are really important to think about, too, because, 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.360 yeah, we all hope that, you know, we'll find 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.019 some kind of. Elixir. Yeah, and our class will 00:16:15.019 --> 00:16:16.899 just be the best class. All the students will 00:16:16.899 --> 00:16:19.360 talk about it and want to take it. And sometimes 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.639 that happens because you had a really great group. 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:27.840 The cards. The cards you dealt sometimes can 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:32.019 be a factor. But very cool, y 'all. I'm just 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:35.820 teasing you about it not working out. Yes. You're 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:38.899 a big teaser. I'm a big teaser. Just wait until 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:41.620 next week. I like the question of how does class 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:44.500 end? Because we were talking about benchmarks, 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.379 working backwards. Yes. How do you kind of sum 00:16:47.379 --> 00:16:49.539 up what they're going to be taken away from that 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:52.120 day? How do you put a cap on it? Especially if 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.659 you're doing experimental imitation. Well, something 00:16:56.659 --> 00:16:59.899 that, you know. Monica has already mentioned 00:16:59.899 --> 00:17:02.539 our attempt at creating a habit of journaling 00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:08.059 in class. And so one style of journal prompt 00:17:08.059 --> 00:17:11.099 that I've come back to a lot after, say, a workshop 00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:12.740 in class, and we can talk about that as well, 00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:15.900 is to ask them, you know, from whatever we did 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:18.220 in class today, and I'll name that in the prompt, 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:22.240 what are you taking away about writing or being 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.690 a writer? I think that's great. Yeah, I mean, 00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:27.869 that's how you want to conclude a body paragraph 00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:29.730 with a takeaway message, and you want to do that 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:30.910 at the end of every class period. That makes 00:17:30.910 --> 00:17:33.569 a lot of sense. I need to be doing that. What 00:17:33.569 --> 00:17:35.589 are the takeaways? What did we learn today? Give 00:17:35.589 --> 00:17:40.410 that time at the end. Yeah, and then it is just 00:17:40.410 --> 00:17:42.549 kind of like a recap, like the looking forward, 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:47.250 like, so next time we'll pick up here. Like I 00:17:47.250 --> 00:17:50.029 said, the journal in my class really kind of 00:17:50.029 --> 00:17:53.140 hasn't had the... it kind of disappeared when 00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:55.240 we started composing projects and we started 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.519 workshopping projects and I really I want to 00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.940 kind of revive it for these last couple of weeks 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.579 so that it's a more reflective process particularly 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.259 at the end of class like now that we've been 00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:08.019 workshopping different types of compositions 00:18:08.019 --> 00:18:11.180 and you've been you know working on your on your 00:18:11.180 --> 00:18:12.740 projects it's like what are kind of what are 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:14.880 those big things that you're kind of learning 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.299 that you want to take with you into your other 00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:21.359 courses and into your life That's wonderful. 00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:23.599 One of the strengths that I'm hearing from y 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.660 'all is the verbal interaction that students 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:29.059 are having at the beginning with your good morning 00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:31.440 exercise, your acknowledgement of the day and 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.480 of each other, and then also this acknowledgement 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.579 of what was learned or what was studied at the 00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:38.880 end of the day. In my classes, I'll just share 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.819 that I'll have some sort of similar question 00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:44.579 as part of the discussion board, what were today's 00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:47.440 main takeaways, but the conclusion always feels 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.470 flat, though it's written about, students kind 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:55.230 of complete it, trickle out one by one, and then 00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:57.890 there's this kind of lifeless energy at the end, 00:18:57.950 --> 00:19:00.190 and then we get down to just one or two who are 00:19:00.190 --> 00:19:03.529 left, and it's kind of a really soft ending, 00:19:03.750 --> 00:19:07.950 whereas I think this verbal acknowledgement at 00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:11.109 the end of here's what we learned kind of seems 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:13.750 to put a point on the day, kind of the point 00:19:13.750 --> 00:19:15.509 at the end of the diamond or something. Yeah. 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.200 I like that. Thank you. I think I like that about 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:24.359 this process as well. Wonderful. You keep mentioning 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.920 the workshops you do in class with all these 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:31.059 varied topics and projects. Can you give an example 00:19:31.059 --> 00:19:35.579 of a typical workshop day? Definitely. Monica 00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:38.599 has earlier alluded to style limitations. In 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.099 my classes, when we went into the style limitation 00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:46.240 portion of the semester, We started with a self 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:50.160 -portrait poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay. And 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.539 everybody then, after analyzing the poem, we 00:19:53.539 --> 00:19:56.880 all wrote our own self -portrait poems imitating 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.359 this Millay poem here. And so that was like, 00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:05.279 say, a Tuesday. And then the following day, everyone, 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:07.279 or the following class period, that Thursday, 00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:09.700 I had everyone send me their imitations. And 00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:11.619 then before class, you know, I printed out, say, 00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:15.759 four copies of everyone's imitation and sorted 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.400 them into small workshop groups. So then everyone 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.039 could, like, hand out, you know, a copy of their 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.960 imitation to each of their workshop group members. 00:20:25.099 --> 00:20:28.099 We had a sort of a workshopping guide, what workshopping 00:20:28.099 --> 00:20:31.140 is like and the process of that. And each group 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:34.420 then... on their own would you know that one 00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:37.019 person would read their their imitation of that 00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:39.019 of that self -portrait poem and then they would 00:20:39.019 --> 00:20:40.799 they would talk about it the next person reads 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.099 theirs they're all making annotations on each 00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:45.380 other's copies the the author then gathers all 00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:48.160 of those annotations back up and then we move 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.839 into studio or if you know if we didn't have 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.259 a studio period they go home and revise those 00:20:54.259 --> 00:20:57.119 imitations send the revisions back to me and 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.440 then i would upload them on my as an imitations 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.960 gallery so they can all see their finished imitations 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.420 all together. Before we go any further, I wonder 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:09.559 if we need to define studio, what we're talking 00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:11.519 about, just for any listeners who do not teach 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.299 here at Delgado Community College. Does someone 00:21:13.299 --> 00:21:15.380 want to kind of tackle what that is? Well, if 00:21:15.380 --> 00:21:16.880 you're out in the audience, don't feel alone. 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.359 Many of our own faculty aren't sure what it is 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.559 either. It is identified as question of the decade 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.779 in the notes. Well, what is it supposed to be? 00:21:29.299 --> 00:21:31.339 That's it. No one really knows. It's kind of 00:21:31.339 --> 00:21:33.099 like rhetoric. No one really knows what it is. 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.119 Okay. So we have these courses. We have English 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.119 101, which is a three credit hour course. And 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.000 then we have English 110, which is a six credit 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.680 hour course. And it's supposed to be a three 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.799 hour lecture with a three hour studio. But yeah. 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:47.920 Okay. So there's some difficulty within our department 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.299 of kind of identifying what is that. I'm not 00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:54.220 quite sure. It's essentially for practice. Yeah. 00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:56.119 Like, I mean, what do you do in a studio? You 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.299 work, right? Yeah. But, yeah, I just felt like 00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:02.559 if you don't teach her, you might not really 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.140 know what we're talking about. That studio is 00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.680 almost always, I believe, in a computer lab so 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:09.980 that students can actually work on writing whatever 00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:13.119 it is they're being asked to write with the teachers 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.720 or with interaction with the teacher in the room. 00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.900 And each other. And each other, absolutely, yes. 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:24.180 Open space. So that's what studio is. So, yeah, 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:27.500 I didn't do style imitation workshops. We did 00:22:27.500 --> 00:22:30.720 share and just kind of we were doing claps and 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.000 snaps, like just kind of celebrating the practice 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.460 part of what we were doing. I started doing workshops 00:22:37.460 --> 00:22:42.539 of projects around week eight. And I definitely 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:44.380 have notes for myself on how I want to do this 00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:48.609 differently moving forward. But I think I. We 00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:51.950 just created a discussion forum in Canvas. I 00:22:51.950 --> 00:22:53.609 had everybody spend some time in their journal 00:22:53.609 --> 00:22:56.109 really thinking about questions for feedback. 00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:59.250 We read about how do we ask for good feedback 00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:02.589 and also think about how do we apply feedback. 00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:05.210 Do you need to do everything that someone suggests 00:23:05.210 --> 00:23:08.509 that you do, including your teacher or a coach 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:11.690 in a writing center somewhere? How do you sort 00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:13.730 through all the advice that you might get and 00:23:13.730 --> 00:23:16.349 make your own decisions about how to revise? 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.019 So they developed at least five questions. Some 00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:22.880 of them did have more than that about their project, 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.960 what they were hoping to get feedback on. And 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.980 then we, it's kind of a traditional MFA workshop 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:33.359 style where the writer kind of, I do let them 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.140 tell us what their questions are, what their 00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:37.099 concerns are, and then they have to be quiet 00:23:37.099 --> 00:23:39.660 and just take notes while the rest of us discuss 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:43.759 the piece. And then, so they're really the one 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.359 that's in charge of the note -taking about what's 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.799 being said. I haven't really made anyone write 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.539 anything. But I think in the spring, I want to, 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.859 Mesa kind of had this epiphany one day when we 00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:57.619 were talking about workshop in class. And does 00:23:57.619 --> 00:24:00.500 the social annotation tool hypothesis work on 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:03.000 their phones? And it does. And I think actually 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.420 just using that as a way of having them give 00:24:05.420 --> 00:24:08.339 each other written feedback in addition to a 00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:11.750 discussion. Yeah, like I want to use that next 00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:14.349 semester. Yeah, I've been using that for workshopping 00:24:14.349 --> 00:24:16.230 their rough drafts of their composition projects. 00:24:16.589 --> 00:24:21.029 Yeah, I like having... putting everyone's rough 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:24.329 draft, again, up on a page on my Google site. 00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:27.609 And then that Google site goes into the hypothesis 00:24:27.609 --> 00:24:31.089 annotation tool, or that page, rather, on the 00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:33.329 site goes into the annotation tool so that everyone 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:35.470 sitting in class together on their devices, we 00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:38.109 can be reading it on the projector and everyone 00:24:38.109 --> 00:24:40.589 can be annotating in real time. And we can interact 00:24:40.589 --> 00:24:43.170 with those annotations verbally in real time 00:24:43.170 --> 00:24:45.569 as well. It almost sounds like your workshops 00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:49.339 are learning how to workshop. Yes. Sure, yeah, 00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:53.079 absolutely. And that they're guiding. I like 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:55.640 that some of them are self -guided. That I don't 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.059 just tell you because it's better when they seek 00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:01.519 out what they need. Yeah, and I talked a lot 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.220 about the difference between peer review and 00:25:04.220 --> 00:25:06.799 have you done peer review before? And they're 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.539 like, yes, and they're all rolling their eyes. 00:25:09.630 --> 00:25:11.109 I said, yeah, because it's the teacher really 00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:13.250 giving you, like, a list of questions to make 00:25:13.250 --> 00:25:15.049 sure you're following the assignment instructions. 00:25:15.309 --> 00:25:17.730 And it doesn't, like, I have been frustrated 00:25:17.730 --> 00:25:19.690 with that process for quite a while. I'm going 00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:21.890 to take your advice on my next assignment and 00:25:21.890 --> 00:25:25.109 have them come up with it. Cool. Yeah, like, 00:25:25.230 --> 00:25:27.130 it's just, yeah, it's, and because that's all 00:25:27.130 --> 00:25:29.470 part of the experiment. For me, what was important 00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.329 is that helping students develop their own agency. 00:25:33.500 --> 00:25:36.019 And so it should come from them, right? They're 00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:38.160 the one that's invested in creating this composition. 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:42.059 It's not, you know, I can't tell you what you 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.119 need to work on, you know, really. I mean, I 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.960 can, but the goal is to really put them in that, 00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:51.559 in control. Right. That sounds like it's really 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.059 engaging and there's a lot of meta -analysis 00:25:55.059 --> 00:25:58.900 in your day -to -day class. Are there grades 00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:01.369 day -to -day? Attendance, certainly. Attendance. 00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:04.630 Or at least I think both of us are waiting pretty 00:26:04.630 --> 00:26:07.609 highly just to emphasize the importance of simply 00:26:07.609 --> 00:26:09.789 being in the room and engaging with your classmates. 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.890 The journal is a part of that grade. I'm also 00:26:14.890 --> 00:26:19.549 assessing it a little bit separately. I'm not 00:26:19.549 --> 00:26:21.349 sure it's working in the way I'm assessing it 00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:23.990 now, but the journal is also kind of a daily 00:26:23.990 --> 00:26:28.109 grade. What about you, Monica? Other daily grades 00:26:28.109 --> 00:26:31.740 that come to mind? Not really. I mean, those 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:34.500 tools that we use in Canvas, like the discussion 00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:37.079 forums and all of that, are not graded. They're 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.380 there simply as a tool to share work and give 00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:44.160 feedback, but I'm not really, I'm not grading 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:48.349 as much, quite frankly. I'm not sure how this 00:26:48.349 --> 00:26:51.789 is going to work out overall. But the grade breakdown 00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:55.329 for the course grade is, yeah, it's 20 % presence 00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:58.609 in the journal. And the journal is always done 00:26:58.609 --> 00:27:01.569 in class in my class. So I'm not really assessing 00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:03.329 it separately. Because if you're there, then 00:27:03.329 --> 00:27:06.150 I know you did it. And it all kind of comes out 00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:10.230 in the wash. But the conferencing is another 00:27:10.230 --> 00:27:13.289 20%. They have four checkpoints they have to 00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:19.069 meet. And then 10 % was the action plan and timeline 00:27:19.069 --> 00:27:22.690 for developing their projects. And then the other 00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:26.369 50 % will be the projects themselves, the delivery 00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:29.849 to their audiences. And I think I'm going to 00:27:29.849 --> 00:27:31.869 have them do some kind of like self -reflective 00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:37.369 writing where they evaluate themselves. What 00:27:37.369 --> 00:27:40.970 grade? Have they earned? And look back on those 00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:42.910 goals that they set at the beginning of the semester 00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:44.849 and why they chose those projects and how well 00:27:44.849 --> 00:27:47.390 do they think they achieved those goals? How 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:51.029 much revision went into creating those final 00:27:51.029 --> 00:27:55.769 projects? And overall, how would you grade them? 00:27:55.869 --> 00:27:57.950 So yeah, like you said earlier, I need to start, 00:27:58.109 --> 00:28:00.849 like this is where we need to be moving here. 00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:03.769 And I think in tomorrow's classes, I will be 00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:05.869 bringing this up as kind of a preview of next 00:28:05.869 --> 00:28:08.450 week's focus. That's another great way to bring 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:10.549 journaling back into it here at the end, is in 00:28:10.549 --> 00:28:14.069 the now reflection, self -evaluation, all that 00:28:14.069 --> 00:28:17.910 kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And students aren't 00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:21.089 stressed. There's not a million low -stakes things, 00:28:21.190 --> 00:28:25.490 the grade -grubbing and unnecessary extrinsic 00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:31.349 rewards. Nope. Good. You said you do four individualized 00:28:31.349 --> 00:28:33.150 conferences. Do you do the same amount? That's 00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:36.329 right, yes. And I guess we wanted to know if 00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:38.490 there's a script or questions you tackle for 00:28:38.490 --> 00:28:40.869 individualized conferences, and we know you have 00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:45.549 them four times. I do not have a script for these 00:28:45.549 --> 00:28:49.190 conferences, although... I think making it clearer 00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:52.369 for next semester, to the students at least, 00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:54.690 than I did this semester, what the purpose of 00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:56.410 each of those checkpoints is, I think I can do 00:28:56.410 --> 00:28:58.410 that better. So it's not so much a script, but 00:28:58.410 --> 00:29:01.710 it's like... You know, so exactly. So when a 00:29:01.710 --> 00:29:04.730 student comes in for checkpoint two, they realize 00:29:04.730 --> 00:29:06.509 before they get there that we're going to be 00:29:06.509 --> 00:29:09.109 talking about your action plan here. When they 00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:11.450 come in for checkpoint three, they realize we're 00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:13.630 looking at a rough draft of your one of your 00:29:13.630 --> 00:29:16.930 compositions. And so I've over time tried to 00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:18.569 make that clear because I could I saw earlier 00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:21.289 on that they just show up without a clue what 00:29:21.289 --> 00:29:23.490 they're doing. Exactly. Yeah. Like I made it 00:29:23.490 --> 00:29:28.359 to my conference. I'm here. I mean, showing up 00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:34.599 is half the battle, right? Yeah, I think because 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:36.920 I don't think my students have been confused 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.359 about the purpose of the conferences. I did combine, 00:29:40.579 --> 00:29:42.420 like, so they do have four checkpoints, but I 00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:45.559 allowed them to check off one and two in one 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:47.859 conference if they were that kind of that far 00:29:47.859 --> 00:29:49.680 along with knowing what they wanted to be working 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.500 on. The first checkpoint is kind of a, what do 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.839 you want to work on? and helping them to develop 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:57.220 ideas for projects if they're not quite sure 00:29:57.220 --> 00:30:00.440 about it um and then the second one is the act 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.359 like really going over the action plan on their 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:04.460 timeline and making sure this is realistic and 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:07.319 um fits with the fairness conversations that 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.359 we had early on and then uh yeah and then when 00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:14.619 it now uh we're in the we're finishing up checkpoint 00:30:14.619 --> 00:30:17.240 three which is meeting with me to look at drafts 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.140 while we're also work shipping yeah like just 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:21.240 kind of checking in because some students are 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.380 doing more than one project because they're not 00:30:23.380 --> 00:30:26.680 giant projects um but we've only workshopped 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:28.500 one of them as a class so we're checking in with 00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.359 each other on the other one and how's that going 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:32.339 and are you keeping up with your deadlines can 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:35.460 you give us that example of this two -parter 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.019 What do you like? Like a student who might be 00:30:38.019 --> 00:30:39.900 working on two projects instead of one. Yeah. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.000 So I have a couple I have a few students who 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.660 chose to write like a like a professional cover 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:47.420 letter for a job. But, you know, you don't need 00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:50.380 12 weeks to write a cover letter, I would hope. 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.799 So they are also writing like they decided they 00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:56.980 wanted to write an article for an online magazine 00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:59.500 like that on a subject that appeals to them. 00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:02.289 I have another student that wrote a review of 00:31:02.289 --> 00:31:04.109 a video game, and then he also wants to write, 00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:07.750 like, a little Western gunslinger short story. 00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:10.450 No one does Westerns anymore. That's great. No, 00:31:10.549 --> 00:31:14.529 it was cool, yeah. Yeah, so it's just kind of 00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:16.230 like... So they don't have to connect even. No. 00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:19.230 No, what they have to connect to are the goals 00:31:19.230 --> 00:31:21.329 that the students set for themselves at the beginning 00:31:21.329 --> 00:31:23.410 of the semester. So we spend a lot of time on, 00:31:23.470 --> 00:31:28.430 like, okay, so if you want to improve your confidence... 00:31:29.019 --> 00:31:31.440 when you're crafting sentences, then what are 00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.170 you going to... write to help you work toward 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:37.809 that goal. I think with my English language students, 00:31:38.109 --> 00:31:40.250 there was a lot of like, I want to practice my 00:31:40.250 --> 00:31:42.829 speaking fluency. So there are a lot more like 00:31:42.829 --> 00:31:46.269 oral compositions that they're working on. I've 00:31:46.269 --> 00:31:48.089 had some students though that like did have multiple 00:31:48.089 --> 00:31:50.430 projects. And then like now we're kind of checking 00:31:50.430 --> 00:31:52.430 in and I'm like, you don't need to do a second 00:31:52.430 --> 00:31:54.809 project. Like you have done enough. Like you 00:31:54.809 --> 00:31:57.009 just need to focus on making this like the best 00:31:57.009 --> 00:32:00.170 possible version of itself. Because a lot of 00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:04.859 these things are very long. Actually, it's surprising 00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:06.579 when you just let them do what they would like 00:32:06.579 --> 00:32:10.099 to do, how much they will write without you having 00:32:10.099 --> 00:32:14.400 to pull teeth. I've had, I would say, actually, 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.839 I don't know that I've had that experience with 00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:20.579 my groups. I was thinking, you know, starting 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:22.460 to see more rough drafts in the second half of 00:32:22.460 --> 00:32:25.619 class. I was hoping they would write longer. 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.200 So just, I don't know what that is. That's an 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:32.349 observation, a curiosity. that probably just 00:32:32.349 --> 00:32:34.569 depends on the groups of students that we're 00:32:34.569 --> 00:32:38.730 working with. Yeah, and I honestly didn't anticipate 00:32:38.730 --> 00:32:42.970 that, and I think it's just some of them. It's 00:32:42.970 --> 00:32:45.089 what they chose that they just had a lot to say. 00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:47.430 Now, some of the pieces don't need to be as long 00:32:47.430 --> 00:32:50.049 as their drafts are, and we've talked about that 00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:52.269 in workshops. They're like, okay, there's a lot 00:32:52.269 --> 00:32:54.559 of stuff here that... makes it hard to know what 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.960 the focus and the purpose is that's muddied but 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.200 but it's you know as I tell them I think it's 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.480 a lot easier sometimes to cut than it is to try 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:03.579 to stretch something out you know when you feel 00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:05.640 like you've run out of things to say and then 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:11.599 it's just repetitive yeah I wish we could all 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:15.359 see Abby's face at home. Reading papers. Repetitive 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:19.720 eyebrows raised. Previty is the soul's weapon. 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:21.759 I thought this was over. It's still going? Yeah. 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.759 Three more paragraphs. Yeah. I don't know. These 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.619 papers get me every time. I write this really 00:33:27.619 --> 00:33:30.809 long end comment. I'm like, oh my gosh. I thought 00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:35.230 it was done. That's just half the shows on TV 00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:37.529 these days. Like, really? Another season of this? 00:33:37.690 --> 00:33:41.089 Where are we going? Or all these revivals of 00:33:41.089 --> 00:33:43.430 shows that, you know, you're like, really? We're 00:33:43.430 --> 00:33:45.890 bringing this back again? Why can't we just leave 00:33:45.890 --> 00:33:48.529 things in their time? The story of Frasier has 00:33:48.529 --> 00:33:51.789 been told. He's in San Francisco now, Andrew. 00:33:52.069 --> 00:33:55.109 Oh, shoot. I got to tune in. I love San Francisco. 00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:57.329 All right, are there any other, did you guys 00:33:57.329 --> 00:33:59.450 have any other questions, anything else you'd 00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:02.769 like to know about our day -to -day with our 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:07.650 students? You sort of wrote this response out 00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:12.309 about documentation, and I think you both concur 00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:14.969 that the documentation will depend on the project. 00:34:15.389 --> 00:34:19.070 Some might be APA, some might be MLA. Sure. And 00:34:19.070 --> 00:34:21.090 maybe that's something you tackle in conferences 00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:24.699 or... Just kind of go around the room, put them 00:34:24.699 --> 00:34:28.019 in pairs. I'm not sure how. Sorry, no, you, Monica, 00:34:28.099 --> 00:34:31.119 go ahead with this one, I think. No, I think 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:33.420 you should go because you actually created an 00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:36.219 exercise for them to do as a class. Try it out 00:34:36.219 --> 00:34:39.539 this morning. Oh, good. How did it go? Okay, 00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:46.199 I think. So last week we read an article that 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.969 integrates sources, right? And so then. To go 00:34:50.969 --> 00:34:53.309 in hand with our practice of style imitation, 00:34:53.730 --> 00:35:00.170 I had like nine or ten excerpts from that article 00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:02.329 where the author is blending source language 00:35:02.329 --> 00:35:05.250 with original language. And so then the task 00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:07.469 this morning for them was to take two of those 00:35:07.469 --> 00:35:10.690 examples and then imitate the sentence, imitate 00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:14.570 the way that she blends source language with... 00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:18.130 original language um and sort of the content 00:35:18.130 --> 00:35:20.690 of their of their imitation sentences would just 00:35:20.690 --> 00:35:24.329 be any other language from her article um and 00:35:24.329 --> 00:35:29.150 so uh that that has been yeah then we of course 00:35:29.150 --> 00:35:32.250 uh workshopped immediately after using a discussion 00:35:32.250 --> 00:35:34.090 board workshop the sentences that they wrote 00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:39.250 and they partnered up and tried to work together 00:35:39.250 --> 00:35:41.909 to revise each other's sentences and then you 00:35:41.909 --> 00:35:45.010 would then post your partner's revised sentence 00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:47.349 on the same discussion board under their original 00:35:47.349 --> 00:35:50.449 post. And I think it would have benefited maybe 00:35:50.449 --> 00:35:55.969 from more time. But it was a good practice. It 00:35:55.969 --> 00:35:59.010 was good practice, I think. Yeah, I'm kind of 00:35:59.010 --> 00:36:01.469 addressing it as it comes up in workshop because 00:36:01.469 --> 00:36:05.389 people are, it does very much depend on. how 00:36:05.389 --> 00:36:08.289 they're planning to deliver their their composition 00:36:08.289 --> 00:36:10.610 so I like I have a student I mentioned before 00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:14.730 who reviewed 52 sources and synthesized them 00:36:14.730 --> 00:36:17.590 all on it's all about cancer research and like 00:36:17.590 --> 00:36:19.690 a certain problem within cancer research and 00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:22.130 treatment and kind of trying to call for a solution 00:36:22.130 --> 00:36:24.710 to this problem I mean very very sophisticated 00:36:24.710 --> 00:36:29.619 stuff and so obviously She wants to submit it 00:36:29.619 --> 00:36:31.079 to a medical journal. That's going to have a 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.079 very specific requirement for how that journal 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:37.780 wants those sources documented. And then I have 00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:40.099 other students who are doing a little more general 00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:43.880 audience kind of writing. And if it's for a website, 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:46.340 that might just be hyperlinks. And so I think 00:36:46.340 --> 00:36:48.719 it's really opened up the discussion of documentation. 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.800 you know, this MLA do it exactly like this, which 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:56.820 they don't remember anyway. Like you have to 00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:59.380 teach it every single semester, no matter if 00:36:59.380 --> 00:37:02.280 you had that student previously, you know, every 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.579 paper. Yeah. So it's like, and I think they're 00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:08.059 more, they're actually more engaged in like understanding 00:37:08.059 --> 00:37:10.199 how do I not, how do I give the source credit? 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:13.119 How do I document this? Like even I have a student 00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:17.099 who's developed a cookbook and was just asking 00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:21.829 how to cite. certain sources used because the 00:37:21.829 --> 00:37:25.969 student connects the recipes to mental health 00:37:25.969 --> 00:37:30.909 and self -care and that kind of thing. But cites 00:37:30.909 --> 00:37:33.090 sources to help support that. So the question 00:37:33.090 --> 00:37:36.349 becomes not how do I do MLA, but how do I give 00:37:36.349 --> 00:37:38.269 this source credit? And I think that's a more 00:37:38.269 --> 00:37:40.309 important question. A much more contemporary 00:37:40.309 --> 00:37:43.269 question because you don't really confront MLA 00:37:43.269 --> 00:37:45.510 in the wild too often. It's kind of like a white 00:37:45.510 --> 00:37:50.469 rhino or something like that. The unicorn. Thank 00:37:50.469 --> 00:37:52.630 you. That's what it is. Well, yeah. So I hope 00:37:52.630 --> 00:37:57.090 that answers that question. I mean, I think that's 00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:58.469 something I definitely feel like I could do a 00:37:58.469 --> 00:38:01.110 better job with next time. But kind of going 00:38:01.110 --> 00:38:03.670 into this like blind, not really knowing what 00:38:03.670 --> 00:38:05.909 students were going to gravitate to in terms 00:38:05.909 --> 00:38:09.690 of project development. Yeah, it's it's it is 00:38:09.690 --> 00:38:11.570 challenging to think on your feet and on the 00:38:11.570 --> 00:38:15.940 fly and be responding to all of that. But I have 00:38:15.940 --> 00:38:19.639 a journal of ideas for next time. Yeah, thanks 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.260 for considering tailoring to the individual. 00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:26.139 And I feel like that might, you'd hope that helped 00:38:26.139 --> 00:38:27.940 with attrition because we know a lot of our students 00:38:27.940 --> 00:38:31.460 give up when they don't get that individual attention. 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.280 So keep practicing that. Thanks, Abby. Yeah, 00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.920 thank you. Yeah, keep going, guys. Thank you, 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:45.340 Andrew. Day by day. Yeah. One step at a time. 00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:47.219 Yeah. Isn't that a song? Wasn't that a show? 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:51.360 A TV show from the 90s? 80s maybe? Step by step. 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.500 Step by step. All right. Thanks for sharing, 00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:57.719 y 'all. Thank you. Thanks for talking with us. 00:38:57.760 --> 00:38:59.659 Thanks for joining us. And thank you, listener. 00:39:00.340 --> 00:39:15.369 Thank you, listeners. Thank you for tuning in 00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:17.730 to this episode of the English 101 Experiment. 00:39:18.510 --> 00:39:21.250 Special thanks to Christopher Nicotera, instructor 00:39:21.250 --> 00:39:23.690 of music business at Delgado Community College, 00:39:23.889 --> 00:39:27.110 for his recording assistance. All music heard 00:39:27.110 --> 00:39:29.809 during this episode comes from the Free Music 00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:33.510 Archive. Specific titles and artists are listed 00:39:33.510 --> 00:39:35.889 on the English 101 Experiment website.