Creeping across the pasture land. Got dirt on
the boots and a working hand. From the milk house
home to the auction call. These are the folks
standing strong and tall. Yeah, this is... This
is the bullvine. In April 1997, Bruno Jubinville
couldn't order coffee in English, but he could
read a cow. He proved it from behind a Purina
feed truck. Two scores, both perfect matches.
Within a week, Holstein Canada was on the phone.
29 years later, Bruno had classified eight of
the 11 cows in Canadian history to reach 97 points.
Holsteins, a Jersey, a Brown Swiss, an Ayrshire.
He championed locomotion before it was fashionable.
He took the Canadian classification system to
Colombia, Brazil, and a dozen other countries,
and he built his entire career around one word,
balance. Now, after nearly three decades inside
the system, he's moved to Blondinsires, not to
sell semen, to educate breeders. This is his
story, the classifier behind eight EX97s, Bruno
Jubinville's lifetime crusade for balance. Now,
let's start at the beginning, and I don't mean
like hosting Canada or classification. I mean...
way back. Where did you grow up and how did all
the dairy industry begin for you? I come from
Quanticook. It's a little city, I would like
to say 20 minutes from Vermont. It's a really
agriculture area, but when I was young at 12,
13, 14 during the summer, I worked on the farm,
but that farm was not appropriate. It was helpful
to do hay during the summer. And after that,
around, I would like to say, after my school,
I went to Manchester, United States. I work on
the concrete. Concrete, I make a base for the
house and stuff like that. Okay. And I work there,
and I want to be married, and my girlfriend doesn't
want to come where I work. Then I start to work
at Shackok Holstein. They are master breeder
Archer and Holstein. And I learned everything
there. I worked there for, I think, eight or
nine years. André Tardif was a classifier. He
worked there before me. Yeah. Yeah. I worked
there for eight, nine years. And after that,
I learned. a lot with them. They were really
good cowmen, and they buy lots of cows from the
U .S. and sell it, and I learned a lot there.
After that, they sell the farm, and I started
to work at Purina. I delivered a bag. A bag for
heifers and stuff, and one day, Gilles Benvenuat
did the workshop with the Plastication Demo.
and they were sitting at the barn because it
was done when I arrived to deliver the feedback.
And one guy said, hey Bruno, how many points
you would like to score those cows? And I say
for, sorry, I say for the joke, I said, if Gilbert
did good, he scored 87, 86, and it was right
on the money like him. And the week after, it
was at St. Holstein, the big, what's the name,
the big Holstein, well, they do it in BC this
summer. It was the conference. Yeah. It was anyway
the big Holstein, I don't remember the name anymore.
And Jay Shannon was there, and I see him there
with Gilbert, and they are with me right there.
But yes or no, because they asked me if I want
to have the job. I said, yes, I'm really interested.
And then I drove with Chantal Chagret, because
they need one class higher from Quebec. And we
drove there, but myself, I didn't speak any English,
zero. And Chantal was a perfect bilingual. And
I think at that time, when they are in your class,
they have a board, the board guys there, and
plus Jay and Brian Coughlin and Tom, and we have
six cows, and we need to score them. And every
time, Chantal translates for me. And at the end,
she said, I translate for you, and they will
give to you the job. I said, I don't know. And
they said, I will give you a news and drink the
night. They are ringing Chantal and I on the
same time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And this is where
I start to classify, yeah. And then you've had
a long career at Holti. Yes, 29 years. Yeah,
yeah. Is there somebody who kind of mentored
you or helped you along the way or helped grow
as you went through there then? Like who were
you training with? One name. It's bad because
the kid is Tom Barrios. Andre Targis and Tom
Barrios. Andre Targis showed to me to be professional
always when I'm doing my job. And after that,
Tom showed me how the business and showed me
the passion. He translated to me his passion.
Because when I do some workshop for the world
of monetization classification. And the first
time I did it, they said Tom number two. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Tom, it translates to
me a lot. The passion and how I understand cows.
And, yeah, it was really special for me, Tom.
Yeah. And relate with people. I always loved
talking to Tom. Yeah, and he's still, you know,
I think he's, I don't know how old he is now,
but he still has a passion. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah,
always. Lots of. Tom, especially, I think his
cattle knowledge has grown, but his passion has
always been there from the get -go. He's a very
fun -loving guy to be around, for sure. And for
sure, when you work with them, you need to want
to learn. I always want to learn, and I still
learn about cows. I think every day I still learn
about cows. Yeah. What do you think are the biggest
things you have learned maybe from the get -go
till now? Because things have obviously changed
quite a bit. But what is your kind of biggest
lessons that way? I don't want to say I have
a big lesson, but what I learned, it's like,
it's a good question. I read your question, but
I'm always like, answer with my heart. What I
learned the most is. Breeder need functional
cows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They need balanced cows.
And I learned. And the breeds go pretty, pretty
fast. Yeah. I mean, change a lot. Cows get better,
better, better. I remember the first senior yearling
and milk in Toronto. I finished first with his
first and I scored 83. And now it's incredible.
They have, I don't know, maybe a class of two
years old they have at the Royal, but it's incredible
how they calf young and everything. Like, it's
like, I don't know if I answer your question,
but. No. One of the neat things, and Adad always
listens to it, is how much he learned from the
breeders as well. Like, not just advisory groups,
but even just certain breeders over the years
that he learned a lot from just because you become.
You get exposed to a lot of breeders and a lot
of opinions. Are there any breeders that you've
kind of learned a lot from over the years? Every
kind. I would like to say every kind of breeders.
Like, I don't know, like the Astro guys or another
one, you know. I think at the end, yeah, I really
like the breeder. they do good i think they have
a good management i really realize management
it's the most important on on cows management
and i think it's still the problem a little bit
management yeah the breeder need to still working
on management yeah and yeah i learned about like
the guys in alberta i learned a lot there about
feeding legs like they they have a better management
on feeding legs than the departments like Quebec
or they have a Thai stall, you know, it's like,
yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So did
you end up classifying a lot all over? Like,
I know they've been trying to make it more centralized,
but you would have traveled like a lot across
Canada then. Oh, but then as you moved up, you
had to travel either way. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I travel all across Canada. Yeah. Always. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm the first to ask to have a English
course. Oh, did you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because
I scored cows for two or three years. I was in
the province and I didn't speak any English.
Zero. Yeah. Yeah. And we just gave the final
score and it was done. Yeah. And one day I say
to Jay Shannon, I would like to have English
scores because I want to understand that people
speak English. I want to work with them better
and understand what they do and stuff. And I
took my English course, and after that, this
is why I speak English now. So when you classify,
I don't think a lot of people understand. That's
one thing I think, obviously, because of Dad,
we got exposed to what a life of a classifier
was like. But what would a typical day look like
when you were on the road or classifying? It's
a good question. It's like you leave Monday morning
early. You always need to do your phone calls
for the week after. That means normally the classifier
do their phone call Monday night or during the
lunch or Tuesday night for the week after. And
after that, they leave from home the Monday around,
I would like to say, 8. And if they need to drive
five hours, they will start at about 1 .30. If
they have two hours, they will start at 10. Yeah.
And after that, yeah, they will do that, classify
all days. and a different area and a different
province it's very different too like when you're
going to Alberta like it's during the winter
it's really dark and when I start we don't have
any address and we have this direction and to
find our farm it was pretty difficult yeah because
it was dark and you're driving for five six miles
and if you don't see any light you're lost yeah
yeah but this is our province different like
in bc you score more cows per day in quebec or
ontario we score more herds less cows a little
bit but yeah you you classify all day you try
to give a good service and you finish at night
it depends but normally we try to finish by five
and yeah and after that like that we do phone
call at night dinner and And the day after, we
restart for five days. We try to classify around
40 and 60, 40, 400 per day and around 60 ,000
a day. Yeah. And sometimes we try. It's all classified.
It's really, really important to give a good
service to the breeder. Some, they start at 4
a .m. because the breeder wants the other. full
of milk and butter, and sometimes at 7, sometimes
finish later. We always try to give a good service
to the farm. And those teams are really, really
passionate about what they're doing. And you
need to. You need to because you're always yourself
on the road, and sometimes you have a problem
with one breeder, he's not happy, and you come
back at the hotel, and you're just yourself,
and you need to. to take it. And then I heard
it's really happy. You know, it's like, yeah,
it's like this judgment of people a little bit.
And the class for you is like this, like this.
Yeah. And it's not the easiest because I think
with that passion and obviously the breeders
who are classifying have a lot of passion. Yes.
They have, they have goals and they hope, you
know, sometimes, and sometimes maybe the cow
isn't there yet. You have to handle that. Have
you ever had those situations or how did you
handle those situations when maybe you had to
do a little tougher than maybe they were hoping?
Oh, for sure, for sure. But the problem is that
the breeder, they don't understand. That's why
they don't create, they don't decide the classification
program. It's the breeder decides, the board
of classification decides, you know, and we just
need to go by rules. And I think somewhere it's
a whole steamboat a little bit because we don't
explain enough. Pescation. This is the problem.
I do some demo of pescation and I'm always surprised
how people, they don't know. They don't know
what that means, short order, what that means,
this part, this part, this part. They don't know.
Like, see, it's inside. You know when you milk
500 cows, but when you milk 40 cows, it doesn't
bother you. It's like, yeah. It's one thing I
would say how the classification, in my opinion,
has evolved over the years is I would say it's
almost as much education as it is judging. I
would have said when dad first was running it
or was doing it back then, it was very much more
just how did you evaluate the animals? And I
think you could probably attest more than anyone
that it's evolved to you're spending more time
almost educating for most breeders than you are
evaluating. This is the problem. We need to educate
more people to classification because I'm always
saying it after 100 years of classification and
really they don't know enough about why we classify
and why we build this kind of program. It's built
for two things, longevity and productivity and
it's the goal. I used to always kid because especially
over the years between dad and Dalton and Tom
and people like that, when they would come in
to classify, they could look at the cow and they,
and you probably would understand when they say
this, we could probably within a point, tell
you what that cow is going to score before you
even start classifying. But then it's helping
the breeder understand how to get there. And
I always love to argue with Tom. because I knew
the system enough because we used to have the
little handhelds at home all the time. So I even
learned where you tick this, tick this, tick
this, you might be able to change certain things.
And Tom would spend more time educating me on
less studying of how the system works, Andrew,
and more studying of what the functional cow
is and what our goal is. So Tom, he knew that
if I'd asked for certain ticks, he knew where
I was trying to head when I was trying to get
higher classification. But he said, even with
all the ticks in the world, you're not changing.
the animal much. And he says you're almost hurting
yourself because the goal is to breed the next,
make that cow last, but also breed from her as
best you can. And so our job is to evaluate her
as accurately as we can. And Tom was a great
ambassador that way of explaining, not just that
way. Yeah, this is a problem in education more
than, because at the end, I don't think so score
final is really important. You know, it's linear
code. Every country, when they look at our genetic,
they work with our linear code, not with the
final score. Yeah, I think only the U .S. still
uses final score a bit, and even that's not heavily
anymore, the linears. But even at that, it's
still the understanding, but educating breeders
and relationships with the breeders is key. But
it's also exciting. You've had the opportunity
to breed some – or not breed. To classify some
very exciting cows, are there any that have stand
out in your memory? Oh, yeah, for sure. We have
1197 points in Canada, and I've participated
in a classification of eight of them. And I'm
really happy. I participated, too, with the Fantasy,
the Brunswick. Yep. And after that, Joy. The
View Village, Gentlemen Joy. I scored with Daniel
and Jean -Luc. And Gorgeous. Gorgeous. The jerseys,
yeah. And the others, it's the first I score,
I think. It's Rose. Yeah. Two -lane James Rose.
We scored 98 on the same time at Kendra. I was
going to say there was two that day, was there
not, from my memory? I think it was Friday morning
at Pierre Bouly at 7 a .m. And those two cows,
they leave the weekend, the same weekend to Madison.
Madison. And I remember Daniel and I, we were
really nervous because we put a lot of pressure
because we scored 97. And that time, Frosty scored
97 -2 in the U .S. And they did the big talk
about who's won deserve. And I remember Rose
was sick. on the bed, and people say, rah, rah,
rah. And at the show, boom. Yeah. I think Rose,
she was really ahead of the breed that time.
I think she changed the show. She changed the
show smaller cows a little bit. And in 2026,
it was a 2008, and it's the kind of deer she
got. We have it today now. You know, her other
was incredible, and their strength was wow. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. She doesn't have a perfect legs,
but she was incredible. I think Kendra, she was
pretty good. And Kendra, she was a really good
cow. I think a little bit more valid than Rose,
but not extreme on memory and the restraint to
compare Rose. Yeah. And after that, yeah, go
ahead. I think Rose started to bring the show
guys back in line of maybe the commercial and
classification side that she had to remind you
that it wasn't about extremes and statures and
frames and openness, that you needed to have
that utter and everything to go with it. Because
before it was a legit, you remember the dupe,
it was so big and tall and long and it was alive
and cool. But for us, she was really, really
big. But, yeah, Rosie, I remember her. She was
incredible. After that, I think one another,
my favorite, I score for sure gorgeous. She's
the best Rosie I've ever seen. The other was
so white, and she was like a tank. She was incredible.
And Hayley. Hayley, for her feet and legs, and
for quality of the texture. and heli when she
arrived on the ring nobody talking because she
was so so stylish and she walked like a princess
and she was incredible yes ellie and after that
i would like to say another cow i think shakira
i think shakira she was the most complete i would
like to see all their legs around memory and
their restraint i would like to see through a
little bit there a little bit more But she's
the most complete 97 I score with the guys. And
we need to understand, we have 97 points, but
they're not perfect. All have a little defect.
Yeah, all of them. But, yeah, yeah. But I think
those cows, it was really, really special. And
the jersey, like, Villevillage, Jane Clement
Joy, she's really special. She's really good,
yeah. I score 88 first lactation. And I score
97 after with Daniel and Charlie. Yep. Oh, wow.
Yeah, I realize after so many years when I look
at those cows, I realize how lucky I am to see
those cows and score them. Yep, yep, yep. Oh,
it's neat, especially because you're allowed
in Quebec and everything too. But yeah, no, there's...
Yeah. It's neat when you look back at them, and
not just because they were great show cows, but...
They were also just, like, especially the ones
you highlight there, they were great cows day
in, day out. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. You know, I
can remember. People say they, I think you have
a question about show. People say, oh, she's
a show cow, she needs to be in the stall. It's
not true. You know, those show cows, they produce
lots of milk. And normally the breeder, they
separate them because the values build it. They
more value on those cows, and they need to keep
a good body condition. And they need to protect
them from accidents normally. But for sure, the
extreme, we don't need extreme, but I think they're
really balanced cows, especially in 2026. It's
not like before. You know, when you see a ring
like at the Royal, the two years old, three years
old, it's incredible. Everybody would like those
kind of cows on the market. You know? Yeah. And
I would say the consistency of cattle nowadays.
It's incredible. It's insane how consistent cows
are. You can walk into any type of herd these
days, and the level of consistency or functionality
of the herds is drastically different, at least
in my time and what I've seen, and you've probably
seen it more than I have, just the consistency
across all type of herds. And now, my emery system,
it's incredible. We have little deep placement
sometimes and deep length, but the attachment
of the other, now it's incredible. When I start
to classify, like we scored and sometimes we
finish like 72 average, 73, and now we don't
see that anymore. It's difficult to find the
effort at 75, 76. 80 is over. This is the goal.
We're on the good way. I'm really, really happy
about that. No, no, I was going to say, because
I can remember in my early days, and for some
people, because of the way the system was, they
were looking for the extremes. Now, like, you
wanted extreme low, you wanted extreme high,
and now I think on most classifier visits, you
know, five, six points amongst two -year -olds
is about as far as you're going to get apart
in most herds, which is insane. I think now we
need to talk about balance than everything else.
Balance means balance. I give you a story. I
was on the plane. I come from BC that time. I
was with the Alleywell players, the football.
And his name was Chu, something like that. He
gave the ball to the quarterback. And he was
sitting beside me. And he's 6 '2", 6 '3", and
200 pounds. And he was sitting like this on the
seat. And I said, oh, this guy is really too
big and not comfortable, you know. But when he
started to walk at the airport. He was really
functional. That means he was strong and wide.
That means the problem was he's not too big.
The problem is his seat was too small. That means
every cow doesn't fit everywhere. You know, it
depends what kind of barn you guard. The breeder
needs to look at that a lot, what kind of barn
I have and what I really need. It's not every
bull fits everywhere or cows fit everywhere.
It depends what kind of installation you've got.
Very much so, especially in Canadian operations
because we have a lot of big open free stalls.
A lot of them are Thai stalls or at least have
been Thai stalls traditionally. It's true. It's
true. And we still learn a lot, especially in
Quebec with free stall. But the transition is
going pretty good. Do you have any fun barn stories
that over the years that just stick with you
that you remember more than anything? yes my
one of my first my first excellent i score in
saskatchewan and i were two or three hours from
saskatoon and that time every excellent we need
to do a revisit and and we charge i think we
charge the visit the second one when we score
the excellent then and i was on the farm and
i see these cows i need to score excellent we
need to do a revisit then then i say i say i
put on revisit i went outside i smoked a couple
cigarettes And I come back in, and I score excellent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We charge
a revisit. Yeah, Bruno was really, really happy.
Yeah, it was, yeah. Yeah, I remember. And, yeah.
When you're working with breeders, what is the
key message you're always trying to get to them,
like help them understand? Because I know we
talked about how much it's education, but what
did you think the key role of the classifier
was in sharing with the breeders over the years?
The first thing is respect. I think we need to
really respect them because those breeders work
really, really hard, and they work harder than
I can. Respect needs to be really important.
But we need to say to them, like, management,
it's not easy to say to them, you need to do
that, you need to do that. And somewhere it's
not our role. But I think it's really, really
important to the class failure to explain what
we're doing and talk to them about management
a little bit. And we need to be really, really
soft or we need to watch what we say. I think
it's really, really important because, yeah,
too many sellers everywhere and everybody say
everything, everything, everything. But I think
people need to help breeders because they're
busy to outside, they're busy to everything.
And the breeding, it's really, really important
for them. Really important because it's the future
revenue. And people don't take enough time to
do it. And I think it's really important. to
the class for you to help them to realize them
that like how many guys say okay the the guys
breed cows i don't know what's it and with everything
you want you know it's it's the breeder need
to know to know that and i really realize that
when i score breeder need help on that way a
lot yeah yeah because they buy something they
don't need and stuff like that and it's they
they're going anywhere with that yeah and i think
it's our role to translate to them the passion
of cows a little bit you know just say to them
cows it's important it's important important
because a lot of them they don't really care
somewhere you know they don't make enough attention
of their herds yeah No, it's neat. And I think,
as I said, I think it started, in my memory,
I'd say it was Tom was one of the first great
ambassadors about teaching. And I think, obviously,
I think Tom had a big impact on your style or
how you approach, because I see the same a lot
of what he did in the sense of education and
teaching is kind of, and relating with the breeders,
I would say, is almost the key strengths that
you guys have. And I think it's the things you've
tried to pass on to other classifiers as well.
Yeah, it's really important. And my role was
to help to fast -forward, to educate them to
do a better service. Because I think in 2026,
when you say 83, she needs better legs, or 81,
the memory system, it's not enough. The fast
-forward, those things need to give a better
service that way. Yeah, no, I think a lot of
the time people think about it like, hey. You're
not always going into, say, farm jakebs, where
if you say, hey, her feet just aren't quite there
enough, and they would kind of say, they would
know yes or no or agree with you slightly. They
would know that as much as you or as much as
most any of us would ahead of time. But that
is a small niche portion of the number of cows
that you actually classify in a day. Yeah. We
need to make more attention of the 95 % of breeders
in it. Go follow the breed like the other. If
you were talking to someone or when you're first
training a young classifier, what advice do you
give them? My first advice is have passion about
cows. And after that, take a time to analyze.
Don't hate them. Don't be exciting for them.
Take a time to analyze them. my part, and understand
the cows. Understand that. I think it's the most
important. When you understand your cows, make
everything easier. That means understand why
she stands like this, why she's like this, because
once you're in a balance, you have an impact
somewhere. And I always say that. Take your time,
analyze them, and it's this. And love what you're
doing. As I say, Because it's like I don't know
how often you were able to make it home at night,
but it can be a grind at times. So you have to
have that passion if you're going to stick with
the grind. I don't think it's as much maybe nowadays
they've tried to make it better, but it's still
a grind, I would believe. For sure. to have the
passion it's not everyone you know some it's
natural some it's not me i'm lucky i would like
to say i'm like tom little hit i have it and
because i really like to learn i'm always want
to learn and and i still learn what i said when
i start to talk to you and and and i love to
learn and this is why i did the move now because
i want to still help breeder and learn about
another stuff and i love it yeah Yeah, there's
a neat, and I was seeing it when I was doing
this, was there's a fun picture of you. I think
it's at Mapleburn Farms where the kids are drawing
cows while you're doing your classification visit.
And I think that says so much right there because
it's kind of helping the next generation and
the passion of the next generation. I just love
that picture. I think you posted it or Holstein
did. Someone did. Yeah, it's so important. future
of them we need to because i would like to see
the young the young the new generation be thinking
differently you know and and and them be thinking
about for sure business and stuff but but they
know if you if you explain to them when they're
young and and they will know in the future when
they will be on on the farm how it's important
to have a balanced cows and the herds because
when i said longevity it's it's the clue of the
future. This is what we need, longevity and especially
Holstein. And it's really important because I
think it's 2 .5 average of lactation in Canada
or 2 .7. And the cows need to produce three lactations
to make more money. And we're still working hard
on that. It's neat and I think I look at your
career and I know from your predecessors that
It's not just here in Canada. I know you've done
a lot of work in other countries, too. And what
has been your experience that way when kind of
trying to both be an ambassador for Canada about
our classification system, but also understanding
other countries? How has that gone for you? And
how would you compare what it's like here to
other countries? I think we have a really good
system. I think because our system, it's a calculation
for moderation for each part. part of measurement
i think it's really really important and and
for the gold of our system it's longevity and
productivity and and i think the other country
really like our system but we need to understand
every country i need a different thing on the
breed you know like in australia the cows the
outside and another place it depends which country
you are but Me, what I learned the most, and
I think I would like to say it's my baby, locomotion.
I've always, always pushed to have locomotion
for a long, long time. And this was my goal before
I leave, to have locomotion, because I think
it's really, really important. And our biggest
challenge was in Canada. We still have a lot
of ice falls. It was our biggest challenge. Yeah,
I always find it interesting, and the one that
comes to my mind because I was recently there
is when I was in the Azores, and they like to
use a lot of our high -type bulls, which is great,
and they like that. But those cows have to walk
for anywhere from an hour to two hours a day
from out in the hills down to the parlor and
back up. And our cows, especially if you have
ones that are slightly stiffer or straighter
in the hawks, don't typically last well on that.
They can last fine on the cement. in North America,
but you take them to hilly countries or even
New Zealand or anywhere where they have to walk
significantly, but especially on hilly countries,
locomotion is a whole different definition maybe
than even what we would call locomotion, but
it's a key part in their longevity for sure,
especially internationally. For sure, and our
system, the tree more important on Finland makes
its hill. Side view and rear legs review for
locomotion. And I think we're pretty good now.
Yeah. I'm really happy. Yeah. Yeah. I would think
there's a lot more consistency on how we evaluate
it now, too. Yes. That would be one of the biggest
changes. We need to work on that for sure. And
I did a video with Jill Nelson. We did a video
on locomotion and we sent it to the class for
you and they can look at. yeah we call them one
to nine and i learned a lot on the other country
uh about locomotion because then locomotion the
the under lifehole would you be on the classification
program always like i think in england the ponderation
of locomotion is really really high and and and
they have number behind a number i mean money
you know when you have a good locomotion you
you cows make more money yep yep yep And it is,
as you said, especially it's not even just different
environments. Cows live in all different areas,
and that's probably the one where it's the biggest
affected by management would be the locomotion
part. Especially you have the one extreme in
Quebec where some cows are in the stall most
of the time, especially maybe a little bit out
in the summer, but the rest of the time of the
year in a tie stall most of the time. And then
you have other countries where it's... They live
outside 99 % of the time, and they're just brought
in for some concentrated milking. And that's
where I think locomotion is even more important.
Not more important, but more focused on. And
it's really hard for them here. You know, when
I start to classify, we classify our first lactation
at 32, 33 months, and they milk 20 kilos a day,
and they were outside all summer. And now they
calf at, I think, 24 months average now in Canada,
but some at 22 and 40, 45 kilos. And it's really
hard for them. And it's really important they
have a good locomotion because when you have
a heifer who's like, she produced 45 kilos, you
know, energy she needs, it's not like she runs
a marathon every day. That means she needs to
have something behind her to... can produce and
still in the barn. That means this is why we
need balance cows, balance ever. I still remember
one time we were classifying and I had a cow
that maybe wasn't the best walking and Tom knew
that. And he said, I want to get her out. She
was 84 as a two -year -old and I wanted her 85.
And Tom said, okay, you get her out and walk
her. And if she walks well, I'll make her 85
or we can get her there. But because he was adamant,
her legs weren't good enough. And if not, we'll
leave her at 84 today, Andrew. And Dad and Lenny
just giggling in the background because they
knew full well that there was no way I was going
to be able to get her to walk well enough. So
Tom won. Tom did win. She stayed at 84. We never
got her to 85. I was trying to argue her legs
were better than they were, and Tom's experience
knew that. Oh, yeah. I see what you're trying
to say. When the leg's a little bit straight,
you don't have any flexibility. No. And I said
to him that she lives all day in her stall. And
he said, well, it looks like she's been washed
and been this and this and this in the last few
days. So she's been out of the stall at least
a little bit, Andrew. And I'm like, and that's
when I started. It started going downhill right
there. And dad and dad. especially when Tom was
classifying, Dad never really got involved. He
just left it to whoever, like I would present
or Lenny would present, just because, you know,
the history. But he was sitting back giggling
like a turkey the whole time and not helping
me there. So I lost a lot of battles against
Tom, but that one I lost as well, which was fun.
It was a lot of fun. But you've seen a lot of
change because I think about it now when you
say about it, like we've had genomics that come
in. But in Quebec, you know, we've gone to robots.
Like you have the extremes that you probably
see. in most of the herds, what have been the
biggest changes or how has it changed and changed
what you had to do over the years because of
that? For sure, what I said, the memory system
has changed a lot, but I think Genomic was the
best tool we never had. You know, I remember
when we started with Genomic, like Classifier
was scared. He said, ah, Genomic won't take our
job and stuff like that, and they were scared
because I remember that time, people said, we
don't need classification anymore. We have genomic,
but genomic, for sure, it's the best tools, but
it's one box of tools. That means if genomic
is so important in 2026, we need to have classification
to prove the numbers of genomic. And this is
why it's so important. We need to still classify
to have a better number of genomic. like viability,
not viability, of numbers, they need classification.
Yeah. This is why it's really important. Yeah.
No, and I look at it now because there are some
tendencies now where there's certain operations
or genetic corporations that have five, six,
seven generations with no classification or milk
recording. Yeah. And without that validation,
we run into so many problems long run. And that's
just an industry. And then at the herd level,
you know, the validation, you still need the
validation. Even if they're better about predicting
it, we still need the validation. And the system
needs the information to adjust. We always need
to learn about the past. And we know when genomics
arrive, some, they totally forgot family. They
totally forgot all of that, all of this. And
they need to come back. because they really realize
family and cows because we always talk about
bull bull bulls but we need to talk about feed
out you know it's like it's it's both and and
we need to have both to to increase the the breed
and now i think with the little mistake on the
past they realize we need to have a good family
not just numbers but we need both it's really
important yeah Yeah, and it's evolving. I think
that's the one thing. I think about it now. I
was sitting there the other day, and I saw a
two -type model from the 70s. That has them all.
I was looking at it. And you look at the evolution
of the cow, and I think that's the biggest thing
I think we need to continue is to keep evolving.
Like the cows are changing, and so are the environments
they live in. So the cows are going to change.
That is going to be the thing that we keep needing
to adjust and the systems need to change to go
with it. That's one of the things I think as
a Canadian I take a lot of pride in is how much
our system has evolved to match how the production
systems have changed. Yeah, but it's funny because
like we talk about Canadian time, but when I'm
going to another country, In my head, they say,
this is a Canadian kind, and this is the cows
they love. You know, that's me. I know you can
talk about American cows or Canadian. I think
everybody, every herd in the world needs the
same cows. Like, balance. And this is where we
are, because the breeding, it's all around the
world now, you know? It is very much global.
Yeah. When I see a cow's balance, I always say,
this is a Canadian cow. I don't know why, but
it's like last time I was in Brazil or Colombia,
I was there a few months ago, and I said, this
is a beautiful Canadian cow in my head because
I don't want to say something to them. But yeah,
it's balance. We talk about balance. And you've
had the opportunity to travel, Fairwood, as an
ambassador for Canadian and a Canadian classification.
Have there been trips or times that you've enjoyed
the most or been the most proud of or found the
most beneficial? Every time, to be honest, every
time I love everywhere I work. Like the two last
training I did, it's so incredible how people
like our Canadian house, how they like what we're
doing. And they listen a lot, and they learn
with us, and I learn too. But I think, yeah,
it's those countries. And, yeah, I really like
that world too, and Australia. We love it. It's
beautiful. And to be honest, everywhere I worked,
I was really, really exciting. Really exciting,
yeah. I think two persons. And I'm surprised
how they have a good cow. I mean, you know, we
think we're just us and the world, but the word
is, wow, wow, and wow, like, yeah. There's a
neat part when you think about what our cattle
population size is to the world and yet how much
our genetics and our systems are actually used
proportionally. I think it speaks volumes for
Canada in the sense of like our genetics, like
we're what, very small percentage, but we're
a large percentage in the genetics sold and same
with our classification system. The number of
countries that are based off of it or work with
ours is quite impressive. I'm always shocked
there. I always get a chuckle because I benefit
from, because dad was, you know, when I first
went into Italy or first went into a lot of South
American countries, dad was the one doing that.
And now when I go back to those countries, a
lot of people who are the senior people like
Corrado and different ones were people dad trained.
So I was like, wow, that's neat. But I go to,
like, when I was in Ecuador this year, they're
so, like, excited, like, to the Canadian system,
the Canadian kind, the Canadian genetics. They
really, really appreciate that. And in their
Holstein Association, they have a lot of our
two -type models sitting there. And I just think,
wow, as ambassadors globally, Canada has done
a great job. over the years and continues to.
And I think a lot of people should understand
that from Canada, just how much that is appreciated
and that we're willing to help and share with
other countries, as you know. That's greatly
appreciated. And to be honest, our greater Canada,
they have so much passion that they can't judge
when they go in there. And the picture and everything,
like, if he's so passionate, then this is passed
to the other country. My dream was, before I
leave, I never did it, but it was to help the
other country to use our program. You know, Australia
use our classification program, but I always
would like to get a country to use it too. Yeah,
because I think everybody needs to have, I would
like to say... Not the chance, but everybody
can be available to use our Canadian genetic,
especially with the classification system, because
we have a really good system. Some day business
and money, I don't know. Yeah. So you've traveled
a lot of miles. You've been in a lot of barns
over the years. Yeah. And seen a lot of cows.
When you think about your career and think about,
what this career gave you or what you've learned
from it or appreciated from it, what comes to
your mind? Yeah, what I learned is to be humble.
And I would like to say about respect again,
but how people, they love what they're doing.
Like, you know, when you're going to score, like
I would like to say, they love their breed. Everybody
loves what they're doing. And, yeah, this is
what I learned the most and how Canada is beautiful.
Yeah, I never traveled all across Canada before.
And, yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.
Yeah, no, but as you transition now, and you've
had a long time at Holstein, but recently news
came out that you're not quite just riding off
into the sunset. You're going to start a new
endeavor. Do you mind sharing what your new endeavor
is? Yeah. What do you mean? Sorry. So you're
not just retiring and going to go play golf all
the time. You're going to actually stay active
in the industry. What are you going to be doing?
I'm going to work for Blobe, Sires. Why? I think
it's another way for me to translate Canadian
cows. Because I think that for the time they're
there, they improve a lot. They show the way
they want to go. What I want to do, it's still
helping breeders. Another way. I think I can
help with management a little bit. Everywhere.
I don't want to say management because that's
not my role. I understand what breeder need because
with my 29 years and this is what I want to give
to them. More, I would like to say more, we go
follow more the breed, more the breeding they
do and stuff like that because it's an investment
and it's really, really important. This is why
I'm going there and be honest, I never want to
stop to work because I love to work with cows.
I love to see them. I feel them and I love it.
yeah yeah it's neat when i heard that yeah it
was hard for me to take this decision to leave
because i really love the team i work with but
i think i was really for the challenge yeah yeah
i think it's neat when i heard that news i thought
i should bear and then when you mentioned your
bear about bringing you into here because when
you bear transitioned from being a classifier
to working on the genetics side, he told me that
it's not really that much different. It's still
relating with the breeders. It's helping the
breeders. It's all the same. Maybe the role is
a little different, but the skills and the things
he had to use in one made him very good at the
other. I think he has fully retired now. We did
both see him, I think, just recently, but he
is fully retired now. But Jaber had a lot of
passion and did very well at it, and I think
you'll be exceptional at it too. And I think
it's a key part because I think about it with,
like, Fitzy, Fitzsimmons, and with the average
breeder, just helping them understand how to
use that information is such a key part. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. and that'll be great so i'm sure
you'll do great at that i still i still to learn
a lot about boats and stuff because so many numbers
but i think it's it's really important to to
help breeder and what they really need in the
field and this is what i want to do and i really
like simone because he take this decision the
time we did they stopped to use family and him
he say oh i don't have this product anymore and
they started because they're supposed to sell
just embryos it was the goal when they start
and after that they say oops we don't have a
boom we want and i will do it and and yeah and
be honest i i i said this small i don't want
to sell this event i'm not a sailor but this
is why they said to me i'm ambassador but My
role will be, like, educate people what is a
good cow. Like, what is a balanced cow. Because,
you know, we talk about tip -tip. I was on the
farm, I think, a long time ago. And the breeder
said, I don't like tight. I don't like tight.
And I score cows 81. And they say, nothing. I
score 182. And I score 185. I say, maybe you
don't like her. They say, oh, yeah, she's my
best. And blah, blah, blah. And she produces
lots of milk. I say, yeah, but this is tight.
You know? Yeah, yeah. And I think it will be
my role. to educate people what is real type,
not it's balanced somewhere. And I think you'll
be great at translating that for breeders. I'm
trying. And if you ever do, as you want to learn,
I think you have a teammate there that I think
if we looked at his lactonate usage, Dan Brady
would probably be the one who has spent the most
time looking up pedigrees in our industry, period.
So I'm sure he'll help you learn. More of that
side of things. And then there's Brian and Simone
as well. I'm just teasing that, Dan. Dan spends
a lot of time on that. So you'll have someone
there you can lean on for sure to help you that
way. So I think it'll be great. So cool. Well,
I think that actually covers all of my questions.
It does. It covers all of my questions. Is there
anything we didn't cover that you wanted to share?
Let me see. Where did I get to everything? I
think I got to everything. yeah no and i think
we're good can i say what i really like about
cows and you can very much so so country doesn't
use loin but for me it's one of the most important
part of the cows the line yeah yeah structure
of the line it's it's for me it's and it's really
important and and everyone if you have a old
cows in the barn you have a good line always
and i think it's really really important and
structure of ribs it's really important to produce
milk. And so with that, do you mean also like
how they're connected to each other? Like I think
everyone thinks a loin is loin, like the curvature,
but I think when you define loin, I think you
define it more of how it's all interconnected.
Yes, the loin, it's the vertebrae on the top,
not the short limb. We want this really strong,
really wide, because we need the white cows to
produce milk, to eat more. And loin, keep the
fertility system on the good angle on the cavity.
Normally, first lactation, you don't see that,
but when the cow's older holder, if they have
a bad loin, it's more difficult for them to breed
them because it changes a lot the angle of the
cavity. And less care of eye pins than the loin.
That's what I mean. Some people associate it
with the pin thing, but I think the big thing
I think people need to understand is that loin
strength isn't the from hooks to pins angle it's
actually the from side to side and how the how
it's all connected into the ribs i think is the
key part we need to realize we need to check
inside of the cows when you look at the cows
not just outside i mean if you got a good line
you can see inside still on the good angle of
the cavity of the fertility system and this is
why it's for me so important yeah yeah but i
think the breed I would like to see the genetic,
it's higher than the breeder can use presently.
Because the management, I don't know if you understand
what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Because the genetic
is pretty, pretty, pretty high now. I can't imagine
on the future we have better cows than that.
I can't. I think. It'll evolve, but yeah. Yeah,
a little bit, but not like on the last 15 years
for sure. Yeah. Especially with genomics. Yeah.
With genomic, when I started to classify, I think
we did 0 .5 average for very good first calf.
Now it's 6%. Yeah. It's incredible. It's genomic,
uniform, all the breed. Yeah. I don't know if
it was Brad or someone, because I remember with
dad, the goal was always to have certain percentages.
in each like how many x are very good two -year
-olds how many this or that and i remember having
like dad always said quote we only can have x
number of very good two -year -olds and i think
if you do it by today's standards we're actually
probably a lot higher than that but the system
and the cattle have evolved so much that they
it is changed that much that you can't just keep
the old percentage of very good two -year -olds
like it used to be the we don't want x number
of no Now we want to just identify them accurately.
It doesn't matter where they end as long as we're
identifying them as accurate as possible. It's
true. And the goal is to have a good process
from the roots. And our biggest challenge, it's
not ours now, but the biggest challenge of classification
in the future is score those young effort at
24 months, 32 months, less than 60 days, score
them a little bit better. I mean, because they
change a lot. To compare like 60 days at four
months and milk, it's a big difference. And we
also need to work on that to improve a little
bit the classification of those young cows. We
did some change, like we did like moderation
of chest width and body depth for those younger,
but I think we need to learn still about those
young cows. Yeah. I got into this debate with
Ted. Last week, last week, because I was writing
an article on Prelude and what happened with
Prelude. And Prelude is the reason we have First
First, because a certain classifier went into
eastern Ontario and rescored a lot of Preludes
really high. Yeah. And his type proof went way
up. Yeah. And we had some issues. So they brought
in First First. And that's a whole separate thing.
We brought in First First. But I was arguing
that we almost, as you said just now. almost
need to look back at this even if it's not first
first if it's first a second or some point because
so many of these cows are maturing so much because
they're calving so young in first lactation yeah
that by the end of their first lactation or into
their second lactation She may have only looked
like an 82 .2 -year -old, but she may be an 88
.2 -year -old just because, like, that's an extreme,
but because she's matured so much, yet the system,
when we look at it from a genetic evaluation
standpoint, has missed that cow because we only
look at first -first. Now, States does still
look at it. So we are getting into the how do
you service the one without hurting the other,
and that's obviously a problem we should look
at, but it is a situation that... These cows,
because they are calving so young, are maturing
so much. It's true. But, you know, when they
build the system, they build it for two -type
cows. Yep. But we can't have a two -type at 22
months at 40 kilos. And the biggest challenge
will be analyzing whether they restrain. It's
a big, big difference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
fun. The system needs to learn about that still.
Yeah. That's what I mean. So it's evolving. I
always say it's evolving. The only thing I hope,
if we ever stop evolving, then I will get worried.
As an industry and as organizations, if we keep
evolving to adjust to how everything's changing,
we'll be fine. But if we stop evolving and think
that we've got it figured out, like even with
genomics, if we think we've got it figured out
because we have genomics, then we're going to
have problems. It's true, and we'll never stop.
And we learn, we learn, and we analyze, and it's
a good thing. And this is where we are now. It's
after 100 years. Like beautiful cows and lots
of milk. It's perfect. As long as we stay passionate
and evolve. And I would say that's two things
I think you've done very well. I try. I appreciate
that. Thank you. That was the classifier behind
eight EX -97s. The story of Bruno Jubinville.
29 years on the road. Eight 97 -point cows, a
dozen countries, and one message that never changed.
Balance, longevity, respect the breeder, love
the cow. If this story resonated with you, share
it with someone who needs to hear it. A young
classifier, a breeder chasing extremes, or anyone
who thinks genomics replaced the need to actually
look at cattle. Find the full article, photos,
and more at thebullvine .com. This has been The
Bullvine, where the dairy industry turns for
honest, independent insight.