Breaking free from the chains of the past Where
truth moves faster than a Holstein calf No law
waiting on some printed page We're charting new
ground in the digital age From genomic codes
to robot facts We cut through the noise, no hold
them back not your daddy's dairy news tonight
we're sparking Welcome back to the Bullvine Podcast,
where we cut through the dairy industry noise
to get you the insights that actually matter
for your operation. Hey, everyone. We are usually
here arguing about genomic TPI lists, dissecting
market fluctuations, or maybe debating whether
the latest parlor tech is actually worth the
ROI. But today... Today is a hard pivot. It is
a pivot. And frankly, I had to sit with this
one for a minute. I bet. When we first looked
at the editorial calendar and I saw the topic,
the Farmer Angel Network, saving lives in the
driveway, my gut reaction, and I think a lot
of our listeners will feel this, was to push
back a little. Sure. We're a technical show.
We talk margins. We talk efficiency. This feels...
Well, it feels soft. I get that. It feels like
something for a breathless morning show, not
for us. You know, why are we burning an hour
on feelings when milk futures are trending the
way they are? I completely expected that pushback.
And honestly, if this were just about feelings
or, you know, holding hands, I'd agree with you.
We wouldn't run it. But let me ask you this.
Look at your P &L sheet. Look at the labor line.
Look at the management protocols. Okay. 80 undiagnosed
was actively driving up your call rate and was
the single biggest threat to the legacy transfer
of the farm to the next generation would you
call that soft no i'd call that a biosecurity
crisis exactly and that is what we're looking
at we are diving deep into a feature piece on
the mental health crisis in dairy But we are
doing it the bullvine way. Okay. We are not here
for platitudes. We are not here for thoughts
and prayers. We are looking at the hard data,
the neuroscience of why stress destroys your
management ability and the logistical solutions
to keep the operator functioning. Fair enough.
You framed it as an operational risk and that
got my attention. It is. Because the stakes right
now, they couldn't be higher. Oh. We need to
set the contest before we even get into the specific
story. Why is this hitting so hard right now?
It's the compression. Let's just look at the
numbers. We track the dairy curve here constantly.
All the time. Wisconsin America's dairy land
went from roughly 15 ,500 dairy farms in the
year 2000. Right. To just 5 ,222 in 2024. Wow.
That is a staggering consolidation. It's a bloodbath.
Let's just call it what it is. That's 10 ,000
herds gone. 10 ,000. That's 10 ,000 bulk tanks
that went dry. That's 10 ,000 driveways that
don't have a milk truck turning in anymore. And
the bovine's own projections map this out even
further. We could be looking at the U .S. heading
toward 15 ,000 total herds by 2035. Which is
coming up fast. And potentially under 10 ,000
by 2050 if the current pressure holds. Think
about the psychology of that for a second. Every
single one of those exits isn't just a business
closing. It's usually a multi -generational failure
in the eyes of the person signing the papers.
That's the part that gets lost. You feel like
you are fighting for the survival of your history.
You are staring at a spreadsheet that says you
might be the one to lose grandpa's farm. That
pressure. It's a pressure cooker that breaks
pipes. And that pressure. creates a specific
kind of crisis. Yeah. I want to tease a statistic
right at the top here because it blew my mind
and it frames this whole conversation. Okay.
We have this idea that we know who is struggling,
right? That we can see it. We think we can. Yeah.
We think, oh, I haven't seen Bob at the coffee
shop or the yard looks a little messy. We think
we have a radar for this. But the data says our
radar is broken. We are missing almost everyone.
According to a massive study we're going to discuss,
81 % of farmers and ranchers who died by suicide
had never seen a doctor for mental health. 81.
Not once. The system is missing nearly everyone.
So that means the current go -to -the -clinic
model is failing four out of five of us. It's
just not catching the signal. It's not working.
And here's the other hook, the operational angle
we teased. Right. There is hard data now, specifically
from a study on robotic milking herds, linking
the farmer's mental state directly to the herd's
physical health, specifically lameness. The research
suggests the cows know you're struggling before
your family does. That gave me chills when I
read it. You too. But we're going to unpack the
biology of that later, why your brain literally
stops seeing the lame cow when you're stressed.
But first, a quick disclaimer. We are going deep
into suicide and depression. We are analyzing
data. We are not giving medical advice. If you
or someone you know is in crisis right now, the
number is 988. 988. That's the Suicide and Crisis
Lifeline or the Wisconsin Farmer Wellness Helpline
at 1 -888 -901 -2558. Just save those numbers.
Okay, let's get into the deep dive. Segment one.
The problem identification. And to understand
this, we can't just look at a chart. We have
to look at a life. We need to talk about Randy
Roketer. Randy is a name a lot of people in the
Midwest know by now. But for those who don't,
he's a third generation farmer from Loganville,
Wisconsin. And his story. Man, it sounds like
the story of a thousand guys I know. It starts
with ambition. It really does. So let's set the
scene. It's 2006. The economy is humming. Randy
is rooted in 700 acres his grandfather established
back in the 1930s. He goes to the University
of Wisconsin farm and industry short course.
So he's educated. He's motivated. And he comes
home with a vision. He wants to modernize. Which
is what we're all told to do, right? Get big
or get out. The industry consultants, the lenders,
everyone is singing the same tune. So he commits
to a major extension. Roker's Rolling Acres.
This wasn't just a remodel. This was a transformation.
No. New freestall barn, new milking parlor, pushing
capacity to 300 cows. And think about the sensory
details of that moment. You know that feeling?
The smell of fresh concrete? Oh, yeah. The way
the stainless steel shines before the first milking.
It's intoxicating. It feels like success. It
feels like you've made it. You're building the
future for your kids. And to do that, he takes
on roughly $3 million in new debt. And in 2006,
that math probably looked okay. I mean, milk
was around $18 per hundredweight. Yeah, at $18
milk, you can service that debt, the cash flow
models work, the lender is happy, you feel good,
you're leveraged, sure, but it's good debt. But
then 2009 hits. The crash, the 2008 financial
crisis finally rolled into the milk check. Prices
dropped from that comfortable $18 down to under
$9 per hundredweight in some markets. I want
everyone to just pause and do that math. You
have $3 million in leverage. You built your business
model on $18 milk, and suddenly you are getting
$9. It's half. That isn't a tight month. That
is a catastrophe. There is no margin. There is
negative margin. The source material says the
family was hemorrhaging and estimated $30 ,000
every single month. $30 ,000 a month. Let's linger
on that. Imagine sitting at the kitchen table
on the first of the month. You open the milk
check. You open the feed bill. You open the loan
statement. And you are 30 grand short. And you
know that in 30 days, you're going to be 30 grand
short again. That burns through equity fast.
That burns through savings. That burns through
hope. Randy said it plainly at a Farm Bureau
workshop later. He said, I was afraid of being
the one to lose my grandfather's farm, the one
to lose this legacy for the children and for
the future. And that is the nightmare. That is
the thing that wakes you up at 3 a .m. in a cold
sweat. It's not just about money. It's about
identity. If you lose the farm, who are you?
And that financial pressure triggered a depression
that consumed him for seven years. And this is
the part that really struck me. He calls it the
spiral. It's invisible. Nobody sees it except
the cows and the farmer staring at the parlor
wall at 4 a .m. That image of staring at the
parlor wall. Man, that hits home for anyone who
has milked cows during a downturn. You're just
going through the motions. Muscle memory takes
over. Dip, strip, wipe, attach. Dip, strip, wipe,
attach. Right. But your mind, your mind is in
a dark room. You're running the numbers over
and over, hoping they change, but they don't.
And the isolation is the killer. You feel so
alone. You think you're the only one losing money.
You think everyone else is managing just fine,
so you must be the failure. Now. Randy actually
did seek treatment. This is really important.
He didn't just suffer in silence the whole time.
She tried to get help. Which takes guts. It does.
But he talks about the failure of traditional
care. He saw providers, but he said none of them
spoke dairy. This is a huge structural issue.
You finally work up the courage to go to a therapist
in town. You sit on that couch and they say,
well, Randy. You seem incredibly stressed. Why
don't you take two weeks off? Go somewhere warm.
Decompress. Right. Just take a vacation. And
you look at them like they have three heads.
Who is going to milk? Who is going to feed? Who
is going to scrape the alleys? I can't just lock
the door at 5 p .m. No. If the provider doesn't
understand that the farm is a living organism
that demands 247 -365 attention. The advice they
give isn't just useless, it's alienating. It
makes it worse. It makes you feel even more alone
because even the helper doesn't get it. It just
reinforces the idea that there is no way out.
So he's in this spiral. The system is failing
him. But the catalyst for change, the moment
the dam broke, it wasn't a therapy session. No.
It was a tragedy right next door. Yes. October
8th, 2018. A neighbor, Leon Statz. Leon was 57,
a fellow dairy farmer. By all accounts, a good
operator. But he had battled depression for 20
years, and on that day, he died by suicide. And
Randy couldn't even go to the funeral. It hit
too close to home. He was seeing his own possible
future. Exactly. But shortly after that, Randy
is in the parking lot of St. Peter's Lucerne
Church in Loganville. And this is the moment.
He breaks down in front of his friends. He told
them, you guys just don't know what it's like
dealing with this. And that is the breach in
the tough guy culture. We are taught to be stoic.
We are taught that complaining doesn't get the
haybald. You don't cry in the parking lot. But
he did. He did. And because he did, the silence
broke. That breakdown led to a meeting. Just
a meeting in the church basement. No real agenda.
Just let's talk. 50 people showed up. 50. In
a small rural community where nobody talks about
feelings, Randy said a lot of tears were shed.
Nobody had a plan. Nobody had a nonprofit charter.
They just knew that Leon was gone, Randy was
hurting, and they couldn't keep doing this everything
is fine act anymore. That meeting in the church
basement was a watershed moment. But let me play
devil's advocate for a second. Go for it. It's
easy to look at Randy's story. The debt. the
2009 crash and say, well, that's tragic, but
that's one guy who got over leveraged. Is Randy
actually an outlier or is he just the only one
loud enough for us to hear? I ask myself the
same thing. You want to believe it's an anomaly.
You want to believe most guys are handling it.
Right. But when we pulled the CDC data for the
industry reality check, the numbers didn't just
back Randy up. They suggested he's actually the
lucky one. Oh, so? Because he survived to talk
about it. The data indicates that for every Randy
speaking in a church, there are thousands of
silent casualties. And this moves us into our
second segment, the industry reality check. Yeah.
Let's look at that Bjornestad study from 2022.
They use CDC National Violent Death Reporting
System data from 2003 to 2018. This is a massive
data set. It is. And this is where we get that
number we mentioned in the intro, 81%. Specifically,
81 % of farmers and ranchers. who died by suicide
had never received mental health treatment never
compare that to the general population it's still
low for them maybe 50 to 60 percent untreated
but for farmers it's practically non -existent
and there's a diagnostic paradox here that i
want to unpack because it's confusing at first
glance it is farmers are actually 20 less likely
to have a diagnosed mental illness than the general
population but they have a suicide rate that
is three and a half times higher, how do you
square those two numbers? It's simple. If you
don't go to the doctor, you don't get diagnosed.
It's not that farmers are mentally healthier.
It's not that we don't have depression. It's
that we are invisible to the health care system.
It's all off the books until the coroner gets
involved. Why is that? Is it just stubbornness?
It's a mix. One, the clinic model doesn't work
for us. Like we said, who has time to drive an
hour to the city? Two, the stigma. In a small
town, everyone knows your truck. If your Ford
F -250 with the farm logo on the side is parked
outside the mental health clinic on Main Street,
by the time you get home, three neighbors know.
That is a huge factor, the lack of anonymity.
You can't just slip in and out. And three, and
this is the dark part, the means. The study showed
a massive lethality gap. What does that mean?
74 .2 % of farmer suicides involve firearms.
For non -farmers, it's about 50%. That. is a
critical data point. And we have to talk about
that without getting political. It's just a fact
of the environment. Exactly. Most farms have
guns. It's a tool of the trade. You have them
for pest control, for varmints, for humane euthanasia
of downed cows. They are accessible. They are
in the truck or by the door. And when you combine
a moment of acute crisis, that breaking point
where the pain is unbearable, with immediate
access to a lethal firearm, there is no second
chance. There's no time for the impulse to pass.
No. You don't get to wake up in the ER and get
help. The analysis here is stark. If the farmers
aren't going to the clinic, that's the 81%. And
the means of death are highly lethal and immediately
available, relying on awareness or go -see -your
-doctor campaigns, is basically useless. It's
a broken pipeline. It is. It's structurally flawed.
You can't wait for the farmer to come to the
clinic. You have to go to the driveway. Which
brings us to the operational impact. Yeah. Segment
three, follow the money. Because even if you
are the stoic type who says, I don't have feelings,
I just have work, this affects you. Right. If
you don't care about your headspace, care about
your milk check. Because they are connected.
And not just in a vague, good vibes way. Not
at all. This comes from the University of Guelph,
a 20 and 21 study. They surveyed 28 Ontario dairy
farms, specifically ones with robotic milkers.
Why robots? Because robots generate a ton of
objective data. They don't have opinions. They
measure milk speed, box visits, rumination, kickoffs.
And what did they find? They found a statistically
significant association between the farmer's
anxiety and depression scores and the prevalence
of severe lameness in the herd. Okay, connect
the dots for us. How does a depressed farmer
equal a lame cow? It's the feedback loop. We
call it management drift. I want to drill into
the biology of that because I think a lot of
guys hear that and think it's just being lazy.
It's not. It's not. It's neurological. Explain
that. When a brain is under chronic cortisol
exposure, which is exactly what financial stress
is, the prefrontal cortex actually shrinks. That's
the CEO of your brain. It handles planning, working
memory, executive function. So the part of the
brain responsible for spotting a subtle change
in gait or remembering to call the hoof tremor
is physically compromised. Exactly. It's called
tunneling. You focus intensely on the immediate
threat, the overdraft notice, the broken scraper,
and your peripheral vision vanishes. You literally
stop seeing the cow that's shifting her weight
in the stall. You're not choosing to ignore her.
No. Your brain is filtering her out to save energy
for the crisis. That's why the lameness data
is so damning. It's an objective record of your
cognitive tunnel vision. And the cost of that
is real. The source breaks it down. Lameness
costs anywhere from $76 to over $500 per case.
Per case. That's lost milk, reduced fertility,
treatment costs, and early culling. And that
creates a vicious cycle. The farmer is stressed,
so management slips due to tunneling. Management
slips, so POWs get lame or somatic cell counts
go up. That leads to financial loss. The financial
loss creates more stress for the farmer and the
spiral just gets deeper. It's a feedback loop
from hell. It is. And the fascinating thing about
this study is the suggestion that the herd data
is an early warning system. Right. Rumination
sensors, milk meters, they can pick up drops
three to five days before clinical signs of illness
in the cow. Yeah. But what this is suggesting
is that these metrics might be diagnosing the
manager. Think about it. If you see a herd -wide
dip in rumination consistency or a spike in uneven
milk -out times and there's no feed change, the
cows aren't sick. The routine is sick. The person
attaching the units is moving differently. They
are erratic. The sensor is picking up the human's
lack of rhythm. If you see the herd sliding,
you need to ask how the manager is doing. That
is a powerful reframing. It's not just I'm sad.
It's my management capability is compromised.
Exactly. For the industry, for the vets and nutritionists
listening, this is a tool. If the cows are off,
look at the guy holding the pitchfork. Which
leads us perfectly to the solution. Segment four,
the Farmer Angel Network, or FAN. We know the
clinic model failed Randy. We know the tough
it out model failed Leon Statz. So what do they
build instead? They realized they had to bypass
the clinic entirely. They built the driveway
model. It didn't start as a nonprofit. It started
as neighbors. And this is where Dorothy Harms
comes in. She's the chairperson of FAN. And she
developed what I'd call the Trojan horse strategy.
I love this strategy. Tell us about it. You never,
ever call a meeting a mental health seminar.
If you put up a flyer at the feed mill that says
depression support group Tuesday night, no farmers
coming. Zero. Why? Because of pride? Pride, privacy,
and the fear of being seen as weak. If you go
to that meeting, you are admitting you can't
hack it. So what do you call it? You call it
a farmer appreciation lunch. You call it a drive
-in movie night. You set up a booth at the county
fair with free cheese curds. You create an event
where it is socially acceptable, even celebrated
to attend. And then? Then you sneak the resources
in. You put the pamphlets in the goodie bag so
they can read them at home. You have a speaker.
Maybe Randy, who starts by talking about milk
prices but pivots to stress. You let people take
the information privately. It's brilliant. You
remove the barrier of entry. You normalize the
gathering first. Exactly. Randy noted that some
farmers drive two or three hours to get to these
events. They will drive to a different county
just so they can walk into a room where nobody
recognizes their truck. That speaks volumes about
the need for anonymity. They need a place to
go. but they can't risk the local gossip mill.
And they need a place where they don't have to
explain. If I tell a non -farmer, I lost a cow
to a DA today, they say, oh, I'm sorry. But if
I tell a farmer that, they know the smell. They
know the financial hit. They know the frustration.
At a FAN event, you don't have to translate your
pain. Everyone speaks the language. And this
model is expanding. It's not just Loganville
anymore. No. Sadly, it often expands through
tragedy. The source mentions the Western Wisconsin
expansion following the death of Brian Webster
in 2023. His family, Jennifer and Kim, they used
the memorial funds to start a sister chapter.
It's a replicable model from church basements
to NBC nightly news. It works because it's grassroots.
It's not a government program. It's peer to peer.
It's not a doctor talking down to you. It's a
guy in muddy boots saying, yeah, I lost $30 ,000
last month, too. It sucks. Here is how I'm getting
through it. That credibility is worth more than
any degree. Okay, so that's the community level.
But let's get down to the individual interactions.
Segment five, practical tools. We talked about
the first responders. And again, on a farm, the
first responder isn't the EMT. By the time the
EMT is there, it's usually too late. The first
responder is the milk hauler at 3 a .m. It's
the milk hauler. It's the vet doing herd check.
It's the nutritionist walking the bunkers. These
are the people who see the farm when the lights
are off. They see the reality. They know. They
know when the tank isn't washed. They know when
the feed bunk is empty. And Randy Roker is training
these people. He is using a program called QPR.
Question, persuade, refer. Right. This is an
AgriSafe course. It's 90 minutes long, often
free. And it gives you a script. Because that's
the hardest part, right? You see a guy struggling.
You see the unwashed tank. But what do you say?
You're terrified of saying the wrong thing and
making it worse. Let's walk through the three
steps. Step one. Question. You have to ground
it in observation. Don't just say, how are you?
Because the answer will be, fine. You say, hey,
I noticed the bunk isn't pushed up today. And
you haven't been yourself the last few pickups.
I have to ask you straight. Are you thinking
about suicide? Whoa. That is direct. Are you
thinking about suicide? Can you really just ask
that? You have to. And there is a huge myth we
need to bust here. People think if you ask that
question, you are planting the idea in their
head. Like, oh, I wasn't thinking about it, but
now that you mention it. Yeah, that's the fear.
The research says the opposite. Asking direct
questions does not increase the risk. In fact,
it often relieves the pressure. The person thinks,
finally, someone sees how much pain I'm in. I
don't have to hide it. Okay, so you ask. If they
say yes or if they hesitate. Step two, persuade.
This isn't about arguing them out of depression.
You aren't a therapist. You aren't going to fix
their finances in the driveway. The goal of persuasion
is simply to get an agreement to stay safe today.
And there's a tip here from the source. Don't
use guilt. Yeah, do not say, think of your kids
or you have so much to live for. When someone
is in that dark of a hole, their logic is inverted.
They often think their family would be better
off without them. A financial burden. Exactly.
They think they are a financial burden. So if
you mention the kids, you might accidentally
reinforce the guilt. So what do you say? You
focus on the immediate. I want you to be here
tomorrow. Let's make a call right now. Can you
agree not to do anything until we talk to someone?
Which leads to step three, refer. And this is
crucial. Do not just hand them a card with a
phone number and drive away. That's useless.
The phone feels like it weighs a thousand pounds.
You stay. You sit in the truck. You say, let's
call the farmer wellness helpline right now.
I'll sit here with you. Yeah. You bridge the
gap. You become the connection to the professional
help. You don't leave them alone if they're in
immediate danger. The infrastructure for this
is growing. The source says over 1 ,700 ag gatekeepers
were trained as of mid -2022. It needs to be
standard. If you are a field rep for a co -op,
this should be as mandatory as safety training
for chemicals. You are entering a high -stress
environment every day. You need to know how to
handle a crisis. This brings us to segment six,
contrarian takes and future implications. We
like to challenge the industry here on The Bullvine.
We do. And frankly, the corporate response has
been mixed. I call it the wallpaper critique.
Go on. Look, a lot of co -ops and processors
have started posting the hotline number. They
put it on the milk check stubs. They put it on
the website footer. Right. That's fine. I'm not
saying they shouldn't do it, but it's wallpaper.
It's an acknowledgement, not a solution. It covers
their liability. So does it actually help? Here's
the litmus test. If you are listening to this
and you sit on a co -op board, ask this question
at your next meeting. If a member calls our headquarters
at 10 p .m. in crisis. What exactly happens?
That is a scary question for a lot of wards.
If the answer is it goes to voicemail or the
security guard has a list of numbers somewhere,
then you don't have infrastructure. You have
nothing. Real infrastructure means a specific
person is on call or there is a direct warm handoff
to a professional service that understands farming.
If you can't name the person who answers the
phone, you are just doing PR. That is the standard
we need to hold them to. And looking at the future
with the consolidation we talked about, heading
toward 10 ,000 herds, this isn't going away.
No. As we move toward that 10 ,000 herd number,
the pressure on the survivors is going to ramp
up. The margins are getting tighter. The labor
issues are getting harder. The stress load per
manager is increasing. We are asking fewer people
to produce more milk with less margin for error.
That is a recipe for burnout. But there's a hopeful
note here, a survivable message. Yeah, Randy
Romaker. He is the living proof. He was $3 million
in the hole. He was losing $30 ,000 a month.
He was suicidal. He was staring at the wall.
And he is still here. He is still farming. The
worst case scenario, losing the farm is survivable.
That's the thing we have to remember. Losing
the land is tragic. It's heartbreaking. I'm not
minimizing that. But it is survivable. Your life
has value outside of that milk permit. Suicide
is the only thing that is not survivable. Randy
proved you can come back from the brink. Powerful
perspective. Okay. We're at the point of the
show where we translate this into action. A farmer
just finished milking, or maybe a board member
is driving to the feed store. What do they need
to do now? All right, let's break it down. Immediate,
medium, and long -term. Immediate, this week.
First, the 7 out of 10 rule. This comes from
FAN. If your stress level is at a 7 out of 10
for two weeks straight, not just a bad day when
a heifer kicked you, but a baseline of 7 for
two weeks, that is your threshold. That is not
a rough patch anymore. That is call for help
territory. Recognize that line in the sand. And
practically, what do you do? Post the numbers.
988, the Wisconsin Farmer Wellness Helpline,
1 -888 -901 -2558. Do not just put them in the
house office where the bills are. Put them in
the barn. Put them in the parlor. Put them where
you are at 4 a .m. when things get dark. Make
it visible. Okay, medium term, three to six months.
Get trained. I don't care if you are a manager,
a milk hauler, or just a neighbor. Take the Agrisafe
QPR course. It's 90 minutes online. It could
save a life. You will learn the script so you
don't freeze up when it matters. And if you want
to bring the FN model to your area. Organize
one coffee meeting. Don't overthink it. You don't
need a nonprofit status. You don't need a budget.
Just get one room, invite a few neighbors for
coffee and donuts, and see who shows up. Just
start. Break the ice. Farmer Appreciation Coffee.
Just start the conversation. And long term. One
to two years. This is for the board members and
the industry leaders. Demand an audit of your
field staff training. Make mental health infrastructure
a budget line item, not just a PR line item.
Does your field rep know what to do if not train
them? And for the producers themselves. Monitor
your herd metrics as a proxy for your own health.
If you see that lameness drift, if you see that
somatic cell count creep, catch the drift before
the crash. Use the data to diagnose yourself.
If the robot says the cows are weird, Check your
own pulse. This has been a heavy episode, but
a necessary one. Absolutely. Look, the most important
variable in your robotic milking system or your
parlor or your 3 ,000 cow dairy is still the
human. It's you. If you break, the whole system
breaks. So take care of the maintenance on the
operator. We will have the links to the Farmer
Angel Network, the AgriSafe QPR training, and
all the studies we mentioned, including that
gill flameness study on our website. This has
been another Bullvine podcast from the Bullvine
podcast. Remember, checking on your neighbor
costs nothing, but it means everything. Head
to www .thebullvine .com for the dairy curve
maps and more analysis. And please save those
numbers 988. We'll see you next time. Stay safe
out there.