Creeping across the pasture land. Got dirt on
the boots and a working hand. From the milk house
home to the auction call. These are the folks
standing strong and tall. Yeah, this is... Welcome
back to The Bullvine. I'm Em, your host, and
this one's a conversation I've been looking forward
to sharing. Today, we're heading to southeastern
Manitoba, near Kleefeld, to sit down with Marcus
and Paige Duke of Four Oak Farms. In July 2020,
they did something nobody in Western Canada had
done before. They rolled a Robomax mobile milking
robot into their old Thai stall barn. No free
stall rebuild, no massive expansion. Just a Quebec
-built rail -mounted robot, a herd of calm brown
Swiss, and a whole lot of figuring it out on
their own. The instructions were in French. COVID
canceled their training trip. The local dealer
relationship fell through, and they had a newborn
at home. Five years later, milk production is
up over 40%. They've built side businesses in
hay and crop consulting. And in 2024, they were
named Manitoba's Outstanding Young Farmers. This
isn't a story about chasing scale. It's about
working smarter, staying sane, and building a
farm life that actually leaves room for your
kids. So grab your coffee and let's get into
it. You guys run Four Oaks Farm. Can you tell
me what a typical day at Four Oaks Farm is like
and what your operation is like? Sure. So we
are Four Oak Farms in southeastern Manitoba near
Cleefeld. We have a dairy, we grow hay, we grow
corn, and we grow soybeans. We also do, Marcus
has his PEG, so he does manure management planning
and field consulting. So a typical day for us
is never the same, but there is kind of those
dairy cows that give you a backbone to your timing.
So first thing, unless there's a first first
thing from the field, is 6 a .m. we're in the
barn. And usually two of us, either me and Marcus,
or we do have one part -time worker. And his
mom is still doing calf tours in the morning.
So 6 a .m., you're in the barn for an hour. Then
you either go off and do field stuff, or if it's
winter, you get to come home for an hour and
have breakfast, get the kids to school. And then
back in the barn, 9 till 12, which is either
one of us, or again, we have a barn staff helper.
And then if we're not in the field, we're back
in the barn again at 2, 2 till 4, doing, you
know, feeding and cleaning and all that. Because
we don't actually milk cows anymore. We have
a robot, but it still needs managed. And then
it's either back in the field or you have some
time to make supper and be home and hang out
until you're back in the barn from 8 till 9 to
do night check. And that is the backbone of a
typical day. Okay. Especially with young children,
I'm sure there's a lot of... craziness going
on. Now, how has that changed since you installed
the RoboMax? I think that was in July 2020. Has
that changed things a fair bit for you, or how
has life changed since before that? I think there
was a lot of changes all at once. So there were
a few things that changed altogether. One was
his parents were aging out of wanting to milk
cows. So step one, we were losing two workers
that were willing to milk cows. Step two, we
had our first baby. So I was still good, but
not as good as I once was. And then step three
was we needed to find a way for the cows to pay
their way better. So putting in the robot happened
because of all of those three things, putting
pressure on having to make a decision and expanding
or demolishing and rebuilding was not a financially
feasible option. So, yeah, the robot went in
and it. At first, it did not feel like it gave
us any more freedom, but over the year, when
you kind of get to know its language and its
needs and how to schedule our life, it's definitely
been freeing. There's still those times where
you need to be there, but they are flexible times
compared to what they used to be. Now you talk
about the getting to know it and understanding
it. What was the... getting used to it or when
you first started using the robot, what was the
learning curve like or what was your feelings
as you're going through all that? It was overwhelming.
There's a few factors. Number one, it was the
cows. Teaching them to love it. There's some
older girls that have been milked the other way.
Of course, it's just a massively different situation
and schedule we went to 3x right away so the
cow part of it was one portion and that just
takes time and it depends on the temperament
of each animal the second fold was that the company
we purchased it from and we're working with to
install are from Quebec and there's a language
barrier that occasionally often came difficult
to kind of people that speak French as their
primary language and we do not trying to learn
from them what we're trying to learn in robot
language Was a little bit tough. They're very
good company, though. And on third fold is that
we were to have a local dealer helping us install,
fix, learn, you know, just get to know it. That
relationship fell through early on. So then we
were pretty much left on our own for quite a
bit. So that I think all of that together just
made it feel like a lot. Plus the new baby we
had. I think going back, we even had one more
complication yet because we decided to buy the
robot in February. like right when COVID started.
And we were supposed to go to Quebec and tour
barns and talk to producers there and figure
out exactly how this was going to work for us.
But we weren't about to go start flying around
during COVID times. So we kind of went into all
of it blind. I think we could have saved a few
learning steps along the way by having seen some
of the barns and getting some advice from other
producers at the time. Yeah, that was something
that we missed. Why didn't we just wait a year
then? Because nobody knew how long COVID was
going to be. Yep. And we're kind of like go -getters.
What the hell? We'll figure it out. You guys
do have a different style of robot than most
people are used to. When most people think robots,
they think of kind of the one where the cows
come and eat at the robot, get milked, and leave.
Can you describe how the robot system you guys
are working with works? You want me to do it?
Okay. it is uh the base of the robot is exactly
the same type of system as where the cows go
to it to get milk so the arm and the and the
software and the measuring equipment for for
the milk quality is is all the same as a freestyle
robot but um what this company in quebec has
done is they've taken that robot and then they've
built another robot basically that drives up
and down the barn aisle and it catches the cow
And then it engages the milking robot. So basically
we're running two robots. We're running a driving
robot and a milking robot at the same time. But
it looks like one thing. Yeah. And sometimes
it's fun getting the two robots to talk to each
other properly. But in my terms, we call it the
cage, like the thing the cow goes into to get
milked. It sits on the barn aisle. It has four
rubber tires so it can drive from. north to south
down the barn aisle and it's programmed in whatever
rotation you want it to go. So we have it going
three times a day and it goes like in a counterclockwise
direction. So it'll start at its first assigned
stall. It'll pull forward as in like to the back
of the cow. A little bridge comes down to cover
the gutter where she normally poops and pees
in. And then two rollers run along her body that
are almost like a squeeze, like you put a cow
in a squeeze to hold her neck. So they'll run
along her body until they get in front of the
point of her shoulder, and then it'll close around
her neck and then slowly pull her back into the
robot. So they have very long neck chains where
they're tied to their headrail. So then once
she's in, it reads her leg band, and then it
acts like a normal robot. But there is no treat.
So training is something that we do to young
heifers before they calve. We teach them how
to back in and not to be afraid of it so when
they come in, they're chill. So it is quite different.
What were your cows' first reactions when you
first were going through this? Did they react
fairly well or was it quite a learning curve
for a lot of them? It's like any new piece of
equipment or experience, right? Every animal
is afraid of something big, robotic, and new.
But, you know, quiet repetition and slow steps
in their training, it's fine. In the beginning,
though, of course, we pushed and rushed it to
try and get it switched over because we didn't
want it to take a year. to half milk them the
old way and half with the robot and the pipeline
had to come out. And so, yeah, going back in
time, we would have changed how we trained them,
but now they're fine. You train it to do the
thing. Yeah. So I figured out exactly how the
training worked and ended up being, we just had
to take a little bit more time and the training
actually went faster by taking more time. Yeah.
Now, it seems to have gone quite well for you.
Production has gone up quite a bit. Was there
certain learnings that really helped that, or
has it been a gradual process as you go through
the whole learning curve that the production
really jumped, or is it a combination of factors?
I think it's a big combination. Going from 2x
milking to 3x milking. certainly opens up the
opportunity for the cows to produce more milk
it didn't happen overnight we actually ended
up switching feed companies and then with the
the feed company change then we started seeing
a change in in production so i don't think we
were feeding the cows quite enough to to support
that that change the other thing we really noticed
is the cows that we just switched from 2x to
3x didn't really respond with a production change
yet the ones that calved into the 3x system those
responded really really well and and so between
getting all the cows you know to calve into the
robot into the new milking regime and the new
feed ration and breeding changes and It feels
like every year there's always another step we
take and another progress. It's always a little
bit. It never seems like we take one really big
step. So another factor you didn't quite touch
on was that before all you had was your hands
and like a strip cup to look for utter health.
And now you see three times a day live results
from every cow's quarter of how her utter health
is doing. So you can catch things super early.
And then you tend not to lose quarters and you
treat infections before they get. out of hand
and so cows tend to keep their quarters and stay
utter health you know throughout their lactation
better than before also the consistency of the
robot and its ability to quarter milk like it
can milk when one quarter is finished it takes
that one off but the other three are still going
it'll keep milking them whereas before all four
just go together so it's just it's just massively
easier to manage a cow and it can be tailored
for per cow and keep her healthy So have you
found that, obviously, with increased capabilities,
but also the data, you've been able to manage
the cows kind of more meticulously as well then?
Has that kind of contributed to it? You can be
type A. As long as you put the time aside to
look at the reports, you can look, see, and learn
anything. But you have to actually be there and
do it. It doesn't tell you on its own that this
cow is, you know, it's missing a quarter and
she's slowly turning into a three -quarter. You
have to go looking. Okay. Yeah. So if you do,
it's good. Now, you guys don't seem to be opposed
to change because during all this whole process,
you also went from Holsteins to Brown Swiss,
which is usually the opposite to what maybe most
people do. What brought about that change? So
that actually, I can't take credit for any of
that. So that happened before us. Oh. Yeah. We
used to be a Holstein herd. And then we actually
used to show cattle quite a bit. And one of the
shows, and my mom saw a Brown Swiss and fell
in love with it, and they bought one, and they
dragged it home. And I think within seven years,
my parents had converted the whole herd over
because they just couldn't have enough of them.
Okay. Yeah. And how would you describe to someone
who isn't familiar that, what is it like milking
Brown Swiss versus Holsteins per se? Do you notice
the difference in temperament or what do you
notice with them? I mean, most people think we
have jerseys. So I think the biggest thing to
clarify is that a jersey is like a smaller framed,
big milking animal. We have like a large jersey
is what a Brown Swiss is like. So they're big.
They're a semi dual purpose breed. So they put
on back fat and meat a lot easier than a whole
theme. Yeah, they're fairly large, but they're
a colored breed, meaning they have a. a higher
potential genetically to produce butterfat than
your typical average Holstein. So that's a production
trait. But temperament -wise, they're very docile.
We do a lot of pushing and pulling. There's not
a lot of running. They're quite sturdy. Like,
you know, their frame is larger. They have thicker
bone. So there's just different health pressures
that maybe a Holstein experiences we don't. Their
calving ability is amazing. We don't use a calf
puller hardly never. Yeah. I think the biggest
difference is, though, they're very docile. And
stubborn. I mean, yeah. They prefer to lay down
than run. You have to make it their idea or nothing's
going to happen. Yeah. Now, you guys seem to
put a lot of thought into different things and
a lot of process here. One of the decisions that
I saw or something is. that as quota prices increase
most people try to buy as much quota as they
can uh you guys kind of i think decided to stop
buying quota when it got so expensive was there
particular reasons for that or what was the thought
process behind that we had uh we have a limited
amount of space in the barn and so we've been
we've been constantly changing things along the
way to kind of get us more space like by adding
dry cow barn and then we could have you know
more of the stalls being milking stalls and as
these changes as we've done these changes and
improved our production ability in the barn then
we've had quota increases come along the way
and they've sort of matched what we've been doing
and so i mean we're we could certainly buy some
quota now we have enough space in the barn for
like our production has gone up enough that we
can milk more cows and it would be fine but it
kind of also feels nice to have a little bit
of a sleeve in a spot because we often get incentive
days in in fall right when there's a shortage
of production typically then producers are incentivized
to produce a little bit extra to kind of fill
the gap at that time and having some stalls available
in the barn to be able to fill that it's kind
of a great way to capture some revenue without
having to put the money out for the quota. Now,
and you guys say about capturing revenue, but
I think you've also diversified your operations.
So, you know, you operate on many hats and one
of them is the Four Oak Egg Solutions. Can you
describe to me kind of the work you've been doing
there and how that got started? So the work is
very centered around doing nutrient management
planning for crop production, but it starts with
manure management. So we both have our animal
science degree from the University of Manitoba.
And then after that, then I went on and I got
my professional agrologist and manure management
planner's license and started. It really started
for a friend to kind of help him out doing his
plant. And then from there, the business kind
of grew to doing. the soil sampling and manure
planning for producers. And so, yeah, we do a
fair amount of that where we help producers figure
out where to put their manure and how thick to
apply and how to incorporate and how to get their
best return on putting that fertilizer in. And
then what additional commercial fertilizer they
need to grow or to put in to achieve their yield
targets that they want from the crops. And it
seems like you guys do a lot of homework and
research, or at least it seems like it, before
you make decisions. Like you have kind of a different
style robot, and then I think you even have a
kind of a different style of hay baler that kind
of processes them a little different. How did
you even go about, like, what leads to finding
these different things, and how did you even
find that hay baler even existed? I think it's
having the right friends. It is a lot with who
you surround yourself with. But that, again,
was like three - or four -fold. Aging generations
before us didn't want to be hand -bombing thousands
of bales up into the attic anymore. We had a
bale stacker that had parts that were breaking
that were almost irreplaceable because it was
older and couldn't find the pieces, or replacing
it was astronomical. So we're like, how can we
still find small packages to use in our tie stall
but not have to move them by hand every day in
a tractor bucket? So a conversation led to his
buddy down the road from Holland. Yeah, it was
just very matter -of -fact. He just puts on the
table, why don't you buy one of these balers?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no. That doesn't exist.
Like, I would know if that existed. Well, no,
and then we, you know, thanks to Google, it doesn't
take very long to find it. And, well, from there
one thing led to another, and I think within
two months we had bought one in Germany already.
And he is a buddy that ships things over from
the UK or from, sorry, Europe, so we could piggyback
on those parts. Yeah, no, it worked out really
good. We had found it in Germany, and my parents
happened to be going there on a trip anyway to
visit family, and so I asked them to swing by
and take a look at it. They called me back after
and they said, well, we've got good and bad news
for you. So we signed the papers and you owe
him this much money. But along the lines of that
baler, too, actually, we had been looking at
ways to make more money per acre on the crop
side of it without not just beans and corn. Right.
So once we once we switch to the baler, then
we could. you know, open our market to people
that also didn't want to hand bomb small bales
anymore in our, in my horse community that I've
grown up with. And we've kind of made more as
we've started making these bales and then recently
purchased a bale dryer so we can make primo quality.
So the whole thing just, yeah, it was a good
decision, but it's just expanded the hay sale
part of our business as well. And the quality
we were able to put out. Now you talk about the
horse background and you don't come from a dairy
background from my understanding. So what got
you into this and how did you get involved? Yeah,
so one of your questions was coming from the
city. I am not a city girl ever. I've been a
small town girl my whole life. My parents were
city slickers. So my dad was a printer and my
mom worked for like CFS or something. But I was
born wanting to be a horse, and then eventually
I could get my own, but I had to pay for it.
So I milked everyone else's cows and washed pig
barns and gathered eggs and vaccinated chickens
until I could pay for my own horse. So when I
met Marcus, it was totally natural that I wanted,
you know, him and a dairy was great, like bonus.
It wasn't hard. And you still have some horses,
do you not? I have four right now, yeah. Well,
three and a quarter. I have a mini horse. Yeah,
I still actively show. I mean, it's hard to find
the time, but I do have one show horse. And Marcus
came with a horse who's now aging, but he's still
here. And a lot of the people that I ride with
and I've met over my life buy hay from us. And,
yeah, it's all kind of circled around to be –
it's good because everyone teases Marcus about
having a horse wife, that it just spends money,
but actually it worked out the other way around.
It does spend money, but it also – Oh, if they
really knew, they knew I'd spend money. Yeah,
I know. We had horses as a kid, and then they
started stirring up the cows just before milking
every day. So it wasn't long after that that
Grandpa decided that my mother's from a horse
background as well. And it didn't mix well for
us. So Grandpa had to get rid of the cows or
had to get rid of the horses because he wasn't
liking them being stirred up just before milking.
Almost every day the horses were reliable. Grandpa
just needed to build another fence line so they
weren't together. But not for me. And now you
have two kids, two young kids. Yeah, two of the
five -year -olds we do. In putting in the robots
and doing all this, is the goal to be a next
generation in here? Is it too young with the
kids? Is that kind of the plan is diversify operations
and make it a family endeavor? Or what is the
goal? That's a good question. So the robot itself,
I fully expect it to be retired by the time our
girls are old enough to be a farm. But it was
a great way for us to, or is a great way for
us to utilize the barn, you know, while it's
still in great shape. And so, yeah, we will have
steps to figure out down the road when that thing
reaches its maturity. but otherwise diversity
has really been been our key trying to figure
out how how we can do better with what we're
doing without just getting bigger okay and it
seems like you guys have a great partnership
but you're both also probably it seems like you
have uh both have strong opinions too how is
that uh how has that worked on the farm for you
guys and uh how do you manage that oh it's uh
I find it fairly simple because I take care of
the crops and Paige takes care of the cows. So
we help each other, but we have our own opinions
about our own things. Yeah, no, I mean, to me,
it's ideal. We can raise our kids here. We have
a love -filled marriage and a business relationship.
It's fine. Each wants the best for each other.
So we make up for each other's shortfalls and
support each other through the hard times in
their sector of our business. And yeah, I wouldn't
change it. I wouldn't say it's challenging. Because
we don't tend to have opposite strong opinions
on the same topic very often. Okay. Okay. Sometimes
you need to hear the strong opinion, too. It's
also helpful. It's helpful to be challenged.
And dairy farming or farming is never easy. Have
you guys had any significant challenges that
have really tested you, or have you guys always
found a way to kind of battle through? It's a
little while. I don't think, I wouldn't say that
we've been challenged between us. Okay, so there
is a quick answer to that, actually. In the early
days, before we had kids, like, starting to feel
like a long time ago, but before we had kids,
Marcus was supposed to be working, like, very
part -time for a company doing manure management.
seed sales and um dairy consulting and stuff
and that guy was really good we're still very
good friends with this company and this is the
person by the way but taking more and more and
more of his time until i also realized i was
farming with his father and i was like okay i
signed up to do this with you so if you're leaving
me to do this with your dad something's got to
change because i'm not happy and that was a little
tough um for me because i didn't have the person
i wanted to be doing this with around and for
him because He also didn't want to be leaving
when, you know, we're busy farming here and he's
off to, like, tell other people how to farm.
So in that little transition phase, getting him
out of that job and back full time, I would say
that was tough. Yeah. Almost forgot about it,
so, yeah. Okay. So we've moved on. It's working
better now. Yeah. Then we had cases with a whole
different thing, but it was as bad as that. When
you chat with your parents, you guys have made
a lot of changes to your parents. Do they get
excited about all the changes you guys have made,
or how has their reaction to all of this been?
It sounds like they were also helped involved
in making some of the changes. I would say they're
always supportive and excited to see the next
thing. Especially if they don't have to pilot
it or make decisions about it. They're great
at giving opinions and encouraging and being
there, but they are not going to be the ones
making these decisions, that's for sure. But
they love being part of it. Oh, yeah. Now, you
talk about love being part of it, and it brings
me back to the robot change. It had to be quite
a learning curve, as we discussed. Was it a...
smooth learning curve? Has it been good? Like
if you were to do it again, would you do it in
a heartbeat or what have you learned with going
through all that? Oh yeah, I have no regrets
with it. I wish I could have learned what I learned
in the first year. I wish I could have learned
that before I put the robot in and that would
have saved a lot of headaches. Maybe shadow a
farm that has one for a couple weeks before you
put in a robot. That would certainly be helpful.
And what has it been like you're learning? Have
you talked about things you would have liked
to have known beforehand so that you could have
managed it better or would do it differently?
If someone else was installing one, what would
you say to them? The software is a lot to learn.
And knowing where to look in the software and
how to look for, um for problems in cows that
are health events or the system may be missing
something or uh i would say how to tell the robot
to tell you what you want to see it's very hard
to tell you what you want to see yeah without
knowing what it can tell you yeah it's uh it's
like learning to totally just being dumped in
a different country and you have to just figure
it out but but on those lines you got to know
whether you If you don't have a dealer in your
area, you need to be prepared to learn a lot.
But, again, once you can be your own technician,
you don't need to call anybody or pay the money.
So it's just what are you willing to learn and
how much time do you have to dedicate to it.
And then you don't have the downtime either if
you can do it yourself. Yeah, you're never waiting
for someone. Now, I wonder, you talk about the
Brown -Swiss being calmer. I wonder if that almost
works well in this situation. And then because,
you know, if you get a spooky kind of flighty
cow and this thing is coming up behind them,
it probably would scare the heck out of them.
Have you found the brown Swiss a little better
because of that maybe? Maybe, but we certainly
have ones that are spooky and flighty with that
too when we start training. They just take longer.
Typically it takes seven days to teach a heifer
to calmly accept, you know, the robot. And the
freaky ones might take two weeks, but not often.
Now you. According to my notes, you've had like
a 40 % production increase. So that doesn't come
just by fluke, but you say it was multiple factors.
You said you switched feed, you changed the milking.
What other things have you been kind of tweaking
or you continue to tweak to help increase your
production? We've made big changes to calf management.
So they're coming out, you know, it starts right
from the beginning, glossary management, timing.
Timely collection of colostrums, feeding them
it, how we wean them, how we vaccinate them.
Our transition, you know, close -up calving cows
are managed differently so that they come in
booming. That's the goal. But, you know, it changes
seasonally. Sometimes it feels like the wind
blows a different way and then you have problems.
But just like everything around cow management
has been tweaked and refined, and that's from
the change that we did to our feed company and
our vet and just working with those two people
together. has made the cows capable of the production
that we can get now. So it sounds like, well,
you maybe don't spend as much time having to
actually physically milk the cows. It does sound
like you guys have spent a lot of time, A, learning
the system, but then also using the system to
help you improve. Would that be kind of accurate?
Yeah. I'd say over the last, you know, after
the last, the first three years of it being in,
that our time having to really be in there is
a lot. it's not as bad as it sounds like well
and a lot of it um we can like i can be in a
tractor and still look at the reports from the
robot on my phone assuming yeah assuming the
gps works 90 of the time when it calls you can
actually log on to an app on our phone and fix
it unless you don't need to go in there And the
reports are just like anything else. You're in
to feed, you sit down, you look at reports for
10 minutes, and you're done. Whereas those 10
minutes used to be, you know, washing up or carrying
machines cow to cow, that kind of stuff. So when
I think of a traditional robotic farm, so we
always come to the conclusion of it doesn't change
the number of hours that you work, but it probably
changes the type of work you do in the sense
of they spend more time kind of managing the
farm and less time being the grunt labor. pretty
much the same in that way? Yeah, I think that
the overall hours per day from before robot to
now is probably the same. The biggest change
for me is that it used to be every time when
we milked, we had to have two people in the barn.
It was always a two -person job to do the milking
because we would milk and feed at the same time.
Now, we can do it as two people and then the
jobs just go faster. But the barn is now fully
manageable as one person. Ends up being a long
day, but you can do it. It was a way longer day
when one person did it the old way. Oh, yes.
Oh, yeah. Now, is the goal to... make it as manageable
by one person or is it a goal is to grow or where
do you guys sit on that? Is it in the big picture
if you're looking at your next steps? I think
looking at the next steps, it's kind of trying
to figure out how to manage employees within
our system because my parents are aging and so
they're going to start slowing down and the robot
gives us kind of a a nice ability to build like
an eight -hour workday block for somebody to
come and show up for a period as opposed to showing
up for a two -hour working shift and expecting
to have, you know, reliable people. And certainly
there are people that do that, but they're harder
to find. And is there a reliable source of kind
of labor for you guys where you are or is finding
people to help is quite the challenge? I would
say in our position right now, because we have
kind of, I call it almost shift work, like they
come and they go home for lunch and they come
and they go home for breakfast and the day is
done early. We've had good success having kids
right now. I don't want to say kids, but like
young people that are still either in school
or, you know, don't want those 40 hours a week.
If we start looking for a 40 -hour weeker, I
think it's going to be harder. So you're able
to give that flexibility to someone quite a bit
that way? Yeah, we haven't had to yet, but it's...
We know it's coming. So, yeah, it's in the back
burner. You know, you just keep your ear to the
ground for someone that would suit because they'll
definitely become almost like a member of the
team. You need them to run the place like it's
theirs. That's our goal, to find someone that
really wants to belong. And with the young people
right now, it works great, but they're not feeling
the hours or doing the jobs that we'd expect
from a full -time worker. I think they're out
there. You just got to take your time and find
the one that fits. Now, from my understanding,
you guys are the first one of this style of robot
in Western Canada. Have you had others who kind
of said, hey, that's neat and considerate, or
what has been the reaction to most of the people
you work with or the neighbors? So we've had
that reaction a few times, and usually it was
fairly quickly followed by, but I'm only interested
if there's going to be a dealer close by. Because
most of the people that we've talked to are not
literate in robotics, and they don't want to
become literate in it. So it's certainly something
different if you're going to have to figure out
how to run hydraulics and mechanical alongside
electronics. Like computers and relays. I don't
know. It's fascinating how many different things
markets can fix. and their life have nothing
to do with each other. I had a small heart attack
when the robot showed up and they opened up the
control panel, and all I saw was wires and relays.
It is a very overwhelming picture when you look
at it from afar, but you know what? Farming's
like that in general, so you have to break it
down and learn it in pieces, just like no one
gets a university degree in a week, so it's going
to take time and dedication, and I don't know.
The rewards are great, but yeah, it's a scary
start. It's interesting because, you know, they
say when you're a traditional robot, the first
thing you say is you almost don't buy the brand.
You buy by the service people or the people around
you. It makes a bigger difference. I think you
guys are saying that. And having said that, though,
you guys have become your own service people,
I think, I guess, is what you're telling us as
well, as you've had to kind of become fully trained
as well. That is very much how that worked out.
But we went into this expecting still to be the
primary caretaker of the robot. Then we were
just forcing that. We were hoping to have the
backup dealer still close by, but that didn't
work out for us. Now, you both do come from university
science backgrounds. Do you think that helped
at least to show the willingness to kind of go
through all this learning process? Or is that
not helped? Or how would you describe that part?
Oh, I'd say it helps. I don't know. University
is definitely a bit of a force yourself through
it because you want the paper. It also teaches
you how to think a little bit differently. Like
we found with our degree that it's really taught
us. not always the answer, but how to find the
answer. Or prevent the situation because there
are, you know, you've got to trace back and just
think deeper, bigger, yeah. And you guys obviously
have done that. I think every decision I would
come across here, it looks like you've done it.
You've applied that process to most everything
is look at it a little differently and really,
really think about either how do we prevent it
or how do we solve it. So that's very impressive.
and i think that contributed greatly to your
outstanding farmer award so congratulations on
that uh how did you find out about that and what
does that mean for you guys yeah thank you um
how do we find out i think you get an email i
don't even remember honestly though that's for
when we got a phone call okay we were nominated
like what is that because really we I know that
our dairy farmers in Manitoba, like AGM, they
have talked about OAS because they're a supporter
and there's members that have been nominated
and gone through the process, but you don't really
think about it until it pertains to you or someone
near you. So it was a little bit also investigating
what is it, and oh, that's kind of cool, and
also what's now involved, and it was kind of
a lot, but also an excellent exercise to go through.
As far as like personal growth and deep questions
about your business and yourselves, it was, yeah,
it was cool. Do they cause you to rethink any
things about your business when you look that
deep into it? Or they usually can help you improve
even just by going through the process? They
force me to look at things you wouldn't. So,
yeah, we were nominated once before. Pre -kids,
very young. Yeah, we were very young. And we
had basically just taken over the farm and were
running it. at the moment just the way my parents
had run it and hadn't really put much thought
into a lot of the things because we were just
focused on getting the running of it figured
out also you were smart you were working in the
bag here enough to dedicate time to it so then
then you have to go through that there is a whole
list of questions that you have to go through
and answer and you really have to dig deep and
figure it out and throughout That process, we
ended up, we left our accountant, we left the
bank, and we changed lawyers. Okay. Yeah. Because
you hadn't looked in those areas yet, right?
Hadn't hit the radar and, yeah. And so we, yeah,
it really pointed out that, oh, we need to change
these. Okay. Wow. So it was very. eye -opening
for you, that process. What are the things that
you're working on improving now or what are the
things that has caught your attention that you
need to still improve or want to take to the
next level? I think that being a smart financial
manager is a big part of it. You know, like which
loans to grab, when to buy, when not to buy,
what to buy, you know, which decisions are sustainable
and aren't. Just in that, you know, whatever
you want to call that. Yeah. I kind of think
we're sitting in a bit of a happy spot right
now, and we're just waiting to seize an opportunity.
We're not really chasing one yet. We'll see what
happens. Like this year? Sure. Do you find yourself
kind of ogling new technology when you see stuff
come out, or is it more just... For me, yes.
I'm always quite aware of what's all going on.
It's interesting. And a lot of the times I'm
able to find ways of some of the new stuff, you
know, like maybe some of the elements of the
new stuff that I think is really cool and I can
find a way to integrate it into what we're currently
doing without having to go and switch stuff.
Okay. Are you always kind of reviewing the whole
process now, especially that you've gone that
in -depth thing? Is it kind of a thing you guys
want to continue to do? Does that always be kind
of refining? It's a great theory. I'm not sure
if we always have the time for it. But, you know,
it's nice when you're forced to sit down and
take the time for it. Yeah, we're on our own
now. And now that you're on the hook and you're
in the Canadian dairy system, is there things
that you love about the system, things you'd
love to change about the Canadian dairy system
that you guys work in? I saw that question. I
was like, I don't know. I mean, supply management
does. ease a lot of stress if you watch our fellow
dairy farming human beings. If that stays implemented,
that would be amazing. On a smaller scale of
changing things, I wish that for us, we strive
for excellence. And if that was either, maybe
not so much rewarded for our efforts, but if
those that don't meet the excellence criteria,
especially with animal care, if they were a little
bit, there was like a stiffer law for that type
of thing to eliminate it. Again, people want
to drink milk and we need milk, so it's hard
to police too hard. Along with the excellence
that we strive for and the quality, we'd love
to be able to sell raw milk. In our corner, there
would be a massive market for it. I call them
homesteaders. They want to make their own cheese
and their yogurts, and they have their health
benefits floating around. And, yeah, we would,
with such a small dairy being able to manage,
like, our bacteria count super low, we would
quality wars frequently. It would be a neat thing
to be able to do, yeah. Okay. Now, I ask this
question, I wonder, because I think about when
you guys have the robot system you have, and
you talked about the quality of animal care.
If you're not milking the cows as much, do you
find that you still get a favorite cow? Do you
have some favorite cows on the farm? And what
makes the certain ones stand out if they do?
I mean, I've been through many favorites, but
the number one way to be a favorite is to go
unnoticed. So, you know, no repro issues, no
other issues. And then to hit five or six plus
lactations is definitely, let's see what my good
books are currently. My favorite is four -oak
fat tigger, and she was out of a cow named Twinkle,
who was our previous favorite. Her head is actually
the one on our emblem. Okay. Yeah, she just milks
big. She's on four quarters. She gets pregnant.
She calves easy. I just know nothing much about
her, and she's just a sexy cow. Super nice udder.
Great animal. I notice her because she tops the
production chart always. She's fresh, yeah. She's
pushing 60 right now. For a brown, she's quite
good. Yeah. But definitely longevity and being
unnoticed, those are good ways to be favorites.
Then if you have a nice body and ability to be
here, that also gives you brownie points. Now,
my understanding is that brown Swiss are really
good reproductively. Have you guys been finding
that? Like, is that my usual finding, or how
are they for a repro? You know, I don't know
if I would say that. I would say that they're
very good at parody. Like, they're very good
at having babies. come out of their body. As
far as repro, I think they fight the same issues
as everybody else, minus the fact that they don't
tend to lose body condition like a whole team.
They tend to melt their back fat off and have
metabolic problems from that. We don't fight
that often because they have a little more meat
all the time, so there's some reserve. I think
we fight the same issues as everybody else. They're
just a little bit not quite so Ferrari -like.
They have a bit of breathing room. As far as
body condition goes, which is directly related
to WePro. Now, you guys seem to have a lot of
diversified interests. What is it that you love
most about dairy farming or what is it about
this that has you guys hooked in this area? I
don't have to drive to work for 40 minutes. We
can take our kids to work. Yeah, take a kid to
work day every day. We come home for lunch. Yeah.
That we're working for ourselves and not for
a company that I either mildly believe in or
don't believe in. Like the whole thing is I believe
in it. I like the work. Don't need a gym pass.
There's just a lot of benefits. Okay. And if
you had to describe to someone kind of in an
elevator pitch or a short thing, how would you
describe your farm and what you guys do? I think.
I mean, yeah, I don't know. I would say on our
farm, we honestly have asked ourselves the question,
what are we working for? Like, are we working
to put more hours in to buy another thing, to
buy it, to be bigger, to do this more? Or are
we working to enjoy each other and our time and
what we do? And I think we've very much settled
in. We want to spend time with each other and
as a family and enjoy life, you know, see the
fall, smell the breeze, stop, smell the roses.
So that's. You know, we work smart and we work
hard, but it's all so that we can enjoy life
and not just chase that never -ending growth
that ends up making you lose the joy of what
this business really involves. That was Marcus
and Paige Duke from Four Oak Farms. A few things
stuck with me from this one. First, you don't
always need a new barn to go robotic. The Duex
proved a rail -mounted system can work in a tie
stall setup. And that's a game changer for mid
-sized operations looking at automation without
a seven -figure rebuild. Second, breed choice
matters more than people think when you're pairing
cows with robots. Brown Swiss might not be the
flashiest pick, but that calm temperament and
those component premiums, they add up. And third,
this is a farm built on partnership. Marcus handles
the crops and consulting. Paige runs the cows
and the books. They've got their lanes, and they
trust each other to stay in them. That might
be the most valuable system on the whole operation.
If you want to dig deeper, we've got the full
written feature on this story at thebullvine
.com, complete with photos of the Robomax in
action and the Dueck family. If this episode
got you thinking, share it with another producer.
And if you've got a story like this one, reach
out. We want to hear it. Until next time, thanks
for listening to The Bull.