WEBVTT 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:15.060 Breaking free from the chains of the past Where 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:18.820 truth moves faster than a Holstein calf No law 00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:21.660 waiting on some printed page We're charting new 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:25.300 ground in the digital age From genomic codes 00:00:25.300 --> 00:00:29.120 to robot facts We cut through the noise, no hold 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.460 them back not your daddy's dairy news tonight 00:00:32.460 --> 00:01:03.170 we're sparking Welcome back to the Bullvine Podcast, 00:01:03.409 --> 00:01:05.469 where we cut through dairy industry noise to 00:01:05.469 --> 00:01:07.129 get you the insights that actually matter for 00:01:07.129 --> 00:01:09.469 your operation. We are focused today on a topic 00:01:09.469 --> 00:01:13.109 that is, frankly, terrifying for farm stability, 00:01:13.409 --> 00:01:16.390 but which also offers some surprisingly clear 00:01:16.390 --> 00:01:18.609 paths forward if you stop waiting for Washington. 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:22.019 And today we're diving deep into a future piece 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:24.739 that's been generating some serious buzz. This 00:01:24.739 --> 00:01:27.319 article discusses the workforce paradox, the 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.120 uncomfortable truth about the industry's dependency 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.780 on workers who are excluded from legal established 00:01:32.780 --> 00:01:35.879 agricultural programs. This one's got layers, 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.079 Sarah, and some surprising facts that are going 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:40.340 to make you rethink how you approach capital 00:01:40.340 --> 00:01:42.379 expenditures on your farm. That's right. The 00:01:42.379 --> 00:01:44.680 stakes here are enormous. I mean, we're talking 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:46.579 about an industry that produces a staggering 00:01:46.579 --> 00:01:49.840 226 billion pounds of milk. annually in America. 00:01:50.060 --> 00:01:52.780 And that entire foundation is resting on, well, 00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:55.319 shaky ground, relying on workers who face the 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:57.480 constant risk of enforcement and deportation. 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.140 Our mission today is simple. We need to provide 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:02.400 a viable, practical business strategy that goes 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.319 beyond just hoping federal policy catches up 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.960 to reality. Exactly. Operational stability, maintaining 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:11.900 high milk quality, and the entire rural farm 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:14.180 economy hinge on finding a way forward here. 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.120 Every producer listens to industry experts talk 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.300 about solving the labor crisis with multi -million 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:22.900 dollar robotic barns. But the real controversy 00:02:22.900 --> 00:02:25.750 buried in the data is this. Targeted automation, 00:02:26.129 --> 00:02:29.090 something as simple and affordable as a $2 ,000 00:02:29.090 --> 00:02:32.050 automatic takeoff, provides a vastly superior 00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:34.990 and faster return on investment than the expensive, 00:02:35.069 --> 00:02:37.629 full robotic systems the industry keeps hyping 00:02:37.629 --> 00:02:40.030 up. We need to unpack that financial reality 00:02:40.030 --> 00:02:42.289 and give you the data to make better investment 00:02:42.289 --> 00:02:44.150 decisions. So we're looking at your source material, 00:02:44.409 --> 00:02:46.509 the raw numbers on labor reliance, the legal 00:02:46.509 --> 00:02:48.469 walls, the economic consequences of disruption, 00:02:48.629 --> 00:02:50.789 and finally, the actionable strategies farms 00:02:50.789 --> 00:02:53.069 are implementing right now. Okay, let's unpack 00:02:53.069 --> 00:02:54.930 this, starting with the specific recent event 00:02:54.930 --> 00:02:56.930 that put this paradox into sharp focus nationwide, 00:02:57.330 --> 00:02:59.909 the Manitowoc case study from September 25th. 00:02:59.930 --> 00:03:02.210 This wasn't just a local news story. It was a 00:03:02.210 --> 00:03:04.229 wake -up call for the entire dairy geography. 00:03:04.530 --> 00:03:06.689 Yeah, that case in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:09.610 it wasn't isolated, but it certainly served as 00:03:09.610 --> 00:03:11.590 a lightning rod for the entire Upper Midwest. 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:14.860 Department of Homeland Security arrested 24 workers 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:17.159 from a parking lot where they commonly met to 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.259 carpool to various dairy farms in the area. The 00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:22.800 logistics of the enforcement action alone show 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.400 the vulnerability. It wasn't an on -site raid. 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:28.900 It was targeting the supply chain of labor itself. 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.620 And the consequence was immediate and absolutely 00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:34.159 devastating for those operations that relied 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:37.430 on those 24 people. When you lose that many workers 00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:39.169 in one morning, you aren't just missing bodies. 00:03:39.409 --> 00:03:41.969 You are destroying years of institutional knowledge 00:03:41.969 --> 00:03:44.669 and expertise. That leads to instant disruption 00:03:44.669 --> 00:03:46.710 in milking schedules, which affects every single 00:03:46.710 --> 00:03:49.210 cow on the herd and cascades down to complex 00:03:49.210 --> 00:03:51.550 protocols like fresh cow management, specific 00:03:51.550 --> 00:03:53.729 feeding times, and successful breeding programs. 00:03:53.969 --> 00:03:56.729 It's chaos. I think every farmer listening knows 00:03:56.729 --> 00:03:59.210 that gut -wrenching feeling. When headlights 00:03:59.210 --> 00:04:01.310 turn into your farm drive at 4 a .m., there is 00:04:01.310 --> 00:04:03.189 that split second where you wonder, are those 00:04:03.189 --> 00:04:06.250 your regular, dependable milkers? Today, the 00:04:06.250 --> 00:04:08.129 day enforcement officers show up and your entire 00:04:08.129 --> 00:04:10.789 operation grinds to a halt. This Manitowoc case 00:04:10.789 --> 00:04:12.949 brought that nationwide uncertainty right to 00:04:12.949 --> 00:04:15.430 Wisconsin's doorstep. I talked to a producer 00:04:15.430 --> 00:04:17.370 near El Paso, Texas, who shared a similar but 00:04:17.370 --> 00:04:20.129 smaller experience recently. He lost three workers 00:04:20.129 --> 00:04:22.949 to an enforcement action, and he was clear. It 00:04:22.949 --> 00:04:25.069 took him two agonizing months of inconsistent 00:04:25.069 --> 00:04:28.250 schedules, mandatory overtime, and struggling 00:04:28.250 --> 00:04:30.529 to fill those highly skilled shifts just to return 00:04:30.529 --> 00:04:33.350 to normal production levels. Two months of chaos. 00:04:33.589 --> 00:04:35.829 And what makes this so profoundly frustrating 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:38.490 for dairy producers is the legal barrier that 00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:41.209 created this mess in the first place. The H -2A 00:04:41.209 --> 00:04:44.290 exclusion. The H -2A temporary agricultural worker 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:46.089 program is not small, it's growing tremendously. 00:04:46.310 --> 00:04:48.850 It jumped from about 48 ,000 certified positions 00:04:48.850 --> 00:04:52.589 in fiscal year 2005 to nearly 380 ,000 in fiscal 00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:55.870 year 2024. Fruit and vegetable farms use it extensively 00:04:55.870 --> 00:04:59.149 because their work is seasonal. But dairy? We 00:04:59.149 --> 00:05:01.379 are locked out. We're locked out by the literal 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.579 language of the rules, specifically the federal 00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:08.560 regulations found at 20 CFR 655 .103, which required 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.019 the work to be temporary or seasonal. And historically, 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:14.300 that definition has always excluded the primary 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:16.560 operations of dairy farming. I have to challenge 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.220 the logic there. I mean, how can the federal 00:05:18.220 --> 00:05:21.000 government justify calling year -round milking 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.800 anything but essential non -seasonal labor. Mastitis 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.699 does not follow a harvest schedule. Cows don't 00:05:26.699 --> 00:05:28.800 take the winter off. Fresh cow management, calf 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.560 rearing, milk. That happens twice a day, 365 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.319 days a year, whether it's frozen February in 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.000 Wisconsin, the spring thaw in New York or August 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.040 heat in California. This isn't picking strawberries. 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:41.899 This is animal husbandry with relentless, non 00:05:41.899 --> 00:05:44.040 -negotiable scheduling demands. It just doesn't 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:45.939 make sense. And what's fascinating here and what 00:05:45.939 --> 00:05:48.319 highlights the arbitrary nature of that exclusion 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:50.889 is that the federal government. does understand 00:05:50.889 --> 00:05:53.490 that certain range livestock operations have 00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:56.129 year -round needs. They can qualify for year 00:05:56.129 --> 00:05:58.509 -round H -2A workers under specific conditions. 00:05:58.790 --> 00:06:00.730 They acknowledge that cattle ranching deep in 00:06:00.730 --> 00:06:02.730 the remote west might need continuous workers. 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:06.470 But large -scale confined dairy operations, which 00:06:06.470 --> 00:06:09.029 are the backbone of U .S. milk supply, are somehow 00:06:09.029 --> 00:06:11.189 deemed ineligible because of this antiquated 00:06:11.189 --> 00:06:14.110 definition of seasonal. It simply doesn't align 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:16.670 with operational reality in the 21st century. 00:06:16.790 --> 00:06:19.069 It just doesn't. It creates a vicious cycle, 00:06:19.189 --> 00:06:21.800 doesn't it? Because legal, year -round labor 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:24.339 is unavailable, dairy farms are forced to rely 00:06:24.339 --> 00:06:27.139 on workers who face constant risk. Then, when 00:06:27.139 --> 00:06:29.500 enforcement happens, the specialized skills they 00:06:29.500 --> 00:06:31.560 brought, the specific knowledge of your herd, 00:06:31.699 --> 00:06:34.860 is lost, which destabilizes the operation, increasing 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:38.240 costs and volatility. We have to acknowledge 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.560 that while legislative fixes like the Farm Workforce 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.579 Modernization Act have passed the House twice, 00:06:42.740 --> 00:06:45.060 showing some bipartisan understanding of the 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:48.350 need, they keep scalling in the Senate. So waiting 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:50.629 for Washington is clearly not a viable business 00:06:50.629 --> 00:06:53.310 strategy. Not at all. And the situation has made 00:06:53.310 --> 00:06:55.490 exponentially worse because the dairy industry 00:06:55.490 --> 00:06:58.009 itself has transformed over the last decade into 00:06:58.009 --> 00:07:00.370 an entity utterly dependent on this labor stability. 00:07:00.769 --> 00:07:03.089 We need to look at the USDA Census of Agriculture 00:07:03.089 --> 00:07:05.550 data to see just how much things have changed 00:07:05.550 --> 00:07:08.509 over the past decade from 2012 to 2022 and understand 00:07:08.509 --> 00:07:11.449 why the surviving farms are so fragile. The consolidation 00:07:11.449 --> 00:07:14.709 data is stark and it's essential context for 00:07:14.709 --> 00:07:17.740 this labor crisis. Look at Wisconsin. America's 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:21.959 dairy land. We had, what, 15 ,904 dairy farms 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.680 in 2012? By 2022, that number was slashed to 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:29.339 6 ,949, more than half gone in 10 years. It's 00:07:29.339 --> 00:07:32.279 gone. Gone. California, the largest milk producer, 00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:35.279 lost 30 % of its dairy farms in that same time 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.660 frame. Texas, Idaho, New York, it's the same 00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:41.389 pattern everywhere. Fewer, larger farms. And 00:07:41.389 --> 00:07:43.769 here's the crucial point. The farms that survived 00:07:43.769 --> 00:07:45.970 didn't just get lucky. They got bigger, dramatically 00:07:45.970 --> 00:07:48.410 more efficient, and critically, they became absolutely 00:07:48.410 --> 00:07:52.009 dependent on reliable, skilled, year -round workers 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:54.519 showing up every single morning. The capital 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:56.740 requirements necessary to survive the last decade, 00:07:56.980 --> 00:07:59.079 building a new parlor, investing in large -scale 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.720 feed storage, drove out the smaller family operations, 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:04.720 leaving these highly leveraged industrial -scale 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.160 businesses that cannot afford even a day of downtime. 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:09.259 They're just too leveraged. Right. And this high 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:11.319 dependency magnifies the impact of the skill 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:13.720 gap. When you lose an experienced milker, or 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.819 especially someone managing your transition castering, 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:17.480 you can't just pull someone off the street and 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:19.019 expect the same results. It doesn't work that 00:08:19.019 --> 00:08:21.199 way. Absolutely not. Think about the complexity 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.779 involved. It takes weeks, sometimes months, to 00:08:23.779 --> 00:08:26.819 properly train new milkers, especially for larger 00:08:26.819 --> 00:08:29.060 operations with complex fresh cow protocols, 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:32.179 specific parlor technologies, and antibiotic 00:08:32.179 --> 00:08:34.899 withholding procedures. It's not simple stuff. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.500 The source material highlights this critical 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:40.200 reality. The industry operates in a gray area 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:42.460 where long -term employees, despite their legal 00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:44.980 uncertainty, develop deep knowledge of specific 00:08:44.980 --> 00:08:47.460 herds that becomes indispensable. Let's delve 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:49.120 into that deep knowledge. You mentioned a farm 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.039 near Turlock, California, where the same worker 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.580 has managed transition cows for 12 years. Twelve 00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:56.379 years. Twelve years. What exactly does 12 years 00:08:56.379 --> 00:08:59.000 of experience mean in practical terms that a 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.850 manual can't replace? Okay, it means they know 00:09:01.850 --> 00:09:04.389 the herd's individual cow movements, their historical 00:09:04.389 --> 00:09:07.690 calving difficulties, the specific signs of metabolic 00:09:07.690 --> 00:09:09.710 disease that a less experienced eye would just 00:09:09.710 --> 00:09:12.389 miss, completely miss. They are managing the 00:09:12.389 --> 00:09:14.470 transition period, the three weeks before and 00:09:14.470 --> 00:09:17.509 after calving, which is the most stressful, high 00:09:17.509 --> 00:09:20.029 risk, and high reward phase of the cow's lactation 00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:23.129 cycle. It's critical. If a worker misses the 00:09:23.129 --> 00:09:25.909 subtle signs of hypocalcemia or ketosis in a 00:09:25.909 --> 00:09:28.710 fresh cow, that cow is likely heading for a DA, 00:09:28.870 --> 00:09:32.120 a dramatic drop in production or, well, death. 00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:35.159 That specific knowledge is lost instantly during 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:38.019 an enforcement action. Instantly. Farmers are 00:09:38.019 --> 00:09:40.240 left with nobody capable of reliably handling 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.200 fresh cows, which, in a commercial herd, is the 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.379 most vulnerable and most valuable part of the 00:09:45.379 --> 00:09:48.460 herd, period. That deep dive into the skill gap 00:09:48.460 --> 00:09:50.440 really hammers home why this isn't just a volume 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:52.299 problem, it's a quality and stability problem. 00:09:52.419 --> 00:09:54.820 A huge one. And this uncertainty isn't isolated 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:57.529 to a handful of states. The Manitowoc incident 00:09:57.529 --> 00:09:59.850 reflects an enforcement pattern seen across the 00:09:59.850 --> 00:10:02.440 dairy geography. That's right. Similar scrutiny 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.379 has been seen in California for decades, in the 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:08.320 Magic Valley of Idaho, and across the panhandle 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.580 of Texas. It's everywhere. These operations are 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:13.700 all facing the same systemic threat to their 00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:16.279 foundational labor pool. And when enforcement 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.779 happens, the impact reverberates beyond the farm. 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:21.659 Local community organizations often raise concerns 00:10:21.659 --> 00:10:23.679 about families who have been part of rural life 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.559 for years. Kids in schools, workers contributing 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:29.480 to the local economy. But the enforcement agencies 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.220 are operating under the their mandates. And the 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:34.879 swift, devastating economic impact on the farm 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.620 is secondary to those federal priorities. It's 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:40.340 a lose -lose situation. It only magnifies the 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:42.740 vulnerability of the surviving larger operations 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:45.639 that simply cannot survive operational disruptions 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:47.879 lasting two months. They just can't. Okay, so 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.059 this workforce instability isn't just a logistical 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:52.820 headache. It's a profound and quantifiable economic 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:55.220 risk. Let's really dig into that. Let's turn 00:10:55.220 --> 00:10:57.720 the soil on the economic impact and detail the 00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:59.820 immediate consequences of losing experienced 00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:02.559 personnel. Well, when experienced workers vanish, 00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:05.600 operational consistency, the bedrock of quality 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.919 milk production, breaks down almost immediately. 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.620 It has to. Quality milk requires rigid adherence 00:11:11.620 --> 00:11:13.779 to the same milking times, the same prep procedures, 00:11:14.059 --> 00:11:16.059 the same handling of the equipment, and strict 00:11:16.059 --> 00:11:19.159 adherence to mastitis protocols. Any break in 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:22.419 that routine stresses the cows. Period. And we've 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:25.980 seen specific painful data points on this. Operations 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:28.820 have reported somatic cell counts or SEC jumping 00:11:28.820 --> 00:11:31.639 50 ,000 just from switching milking crews. Let's 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.019 translate that. 50 ,000 is not a small jump. 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.539 If you're normally running 150 ,000 and you jump 00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:39.019 to 200 ,000, you are instantly losing the opportunity 00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:41.120 for qualitative premiums and potentially facing 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.039 deductions or penalties depending on your contract. 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:45.480 That is an immediate loss in profitability that 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.860 hits the next milk check right away. And the 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:50.389 chaos doesn't stop there. Production drops follow 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:52.629 because of stress, inconsistent handling, and 00:11:52.629 --> 00:11:55.549 incomplete milk out. It's inevitable. But here's 00:11:55.549 --> 00:11:58.029 the deferred disaster. Reproduction programs 00:11:58.029 --> 00:12:00.809 suffer when heat detection is missed. Heat detection 00:12:00.809 --> 00:12:02.929 is often a key responsibility of experienced 00:12:02.929 --> 00:12:05.070 milkers who know the subtle signs of estrus. 00:12:05.269 --> 00:12:08.049 They see things others don't. Missing one heat 00:12:08.049 --> 00:12:09.809 cycle today means you missed the opportunity 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:12.149 for a pregnancy. That means lower production, 00:12:12.350 --> 00:12:14.850 a longer calving interval, and ultimately less 00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:17.490 milk and higher cull rates months from now. For 00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:20.750 a cow valued at, say, 80 pounds of milk a day, 00:12:20.870 --> 00:12:22.590 missing a heat cycle might cost you anywhere 00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:25.409 from $300 to $500 in lost revenue and extended 00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:28.309 days open. easily. Scale that across a herd of 00:12:28.309 --> 00:12:30.490 1 ,000 cows over a year, and the financial impact 00:12:30.490 --> 00:12:33.529 of labor instability is staggering. Just staggering. 00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:36.690 And if we broaden the view, the economic strain 00:12:36.690 --> 00:12:39.250 becomes macro, affecting states and the national 00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:42.110 economy. The Wisconsin dairy industry generates 00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:46.350 a massive $45 .6 billion in total economic activity. 00:12:46.929 --> 00:12:49.250 California's sector contributes $21 billion. 00:12:49.710 --> 00:12:51.870 This isn't just a few farms struggling. This 00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:54.129 is a massive foundational industry supporting 00:12:54.129 --> 00:12:56.990 thousands of rural jobs. And it's all built on 00:12:56.990 --> 00:12:59.769 this incredibly unstable labor foundation. Absolutely. 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:01.950 The ripple effects across the supply chain are 00:13:01.950 --> 00:13:04.570 palpable. When farms face scrambling operations, 00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.029 processing plants face variable, inconsistent 00:13:07.029 --> 00:13:09.629 milk supplies, haulers have route disruptions 00:13:09.629 --> 00:13:12.289 and delays. Feed suppliers see volatility in 00:13:12.289 --> 00:13:14.929 demand as herd health metrics fluctuate. When 00:13:14.929 --> 00:13:16.549 the engine of the farm starts sputtering due 00:13:16.549 --> 00:13:18.789 to labor uncertainty, the entire supply chain 00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:21.210 feels the tremor, leading to inefficiencies and 00:13:21.210 --> 00:13:23.549 increased costs across the board. And let's not 00:13:23.549 --> 00:13:26.090 forget the long -term economic risk that filters 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:29.379 down to the consumer. Basic economics dictates. 00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:32.580 If we see a major sustained disruption that reduces 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.899 the U .S. milk supply, will demand remain steady? 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.720 Or if labor costs spike dramatically due to scarcity, 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.360 prices will increase? Some analysts worry that 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.659 major sustained disruptions could push prices 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.179 up significantly, which fundamentally erodes 00:13:46.179 --> 00:13:48.799 dairy's competitive position against plant -based 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:51.470 alternatives. If we price ourselves out of the 00:13:51.470 --> 00:13:53.970 everyday shopping basket, we risk losing market 00:13:53.970 --> 00:13:56.490 share we may never regain, permanently weakening 00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.850 the industry's profitability. The stability of 00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:00.870 the workforce is directly tied to the price stability 00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:04.289 of the finished product. It's that simple. Now 00:14:04.289 --> 00:14:06.149 let's pivot to the solution everyone talks about, 00:14:06.309 --> 00:14:09.250 technology. Every industry conference features 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:12.029 shiny new robotics, presented as the silver bullet 00:14:12.029 --> 00:14:14.429 for the labor crisis. But the bullvine is here 00:14:14.429 --> 00:14:16.450 to challenge that robotics hype with hard numbers 00:14:16.450 --> 00:14:19.049 and real -world farm economics. Yeah, I have 00:14:19.049 --> 00:14:20.610 to say the hype cycle around full automation 00:14:20.610 --> 00:14:23.470 is relentless. It sounds great on paper. Remove 00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:25.529 the variable human element in install machines, 00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:28.169 but the reality is far more nuanced. Current 00:14:28.169 --> 00:14:30.529 adoption rates show robotic milking systems are 00:14:30.529 --> 00:14:32.970 used on only approximately 3 % of U .S. dairy 00:14:32.970 --> 00:14:35.429 operations. Yes, that number is growing, but 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:37.440 it's still highly centralized. among specific 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.279 operation sizes. It's not widespread. And let's 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:42.799 address the biggest hurdle for 97 % of farms, 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.320 the high capital cost and the, well, excruciatingly 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.220 long payback period. Wisconsin Extension estimates 00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:53.399 installation costs at $150 ,000 to $200 ,000 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.809 per robot. Per robot. If you have a decent sized 00:14:56.809 --> 00:14:58.850 herd, you are committing to millions of dollars 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:01.129 in capital expenditure, plus specialized maintenance 00:15:01.129 --> 00:15:04.029 contracts and increased utility costs. It's huge 00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.250 money. Precisely. You are looking at a best case 00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:08.549 scenario of five, seven year payback period on 00:15:08.549 --> 00:15:11.190 a massive capital investment. And that projection 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:13.289 assumes perfect operation, minimal component 00:15:13.289 --> 00:15:15.889 failure, and, you know, a guaranteed milk price, 00:15:16.049 --> 00:15:18.090 which we know isn't guaranteed. But wait a minute, 00:15:18.169 --> 00:15:21.269 Jake. Doesn't saying forget the full robot barn 00:15:21.269 --> 00:15:24.190 ignore the long -term demographic trend? Aren't 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:26.389 we just delaying the inevitable need for full 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:28.570 automation if labor uncertainty is only going 00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:30.669 to waste it? I see your point, Sarah, and that's 00:15:30.669 --> 00:15:33.129 the industry line. Automation is inevitable, 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.610 but we have to look at what solves the immediate 00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:38.049 operational crisis and generates cash flow now. 00:15:38.509 --> 00:15:41.230 Crucially, robots do not eliminate the need for 00:15:41.230 --> 00:15:43.700 skilled labor. University of Minnesota Extension 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.899 research shows they might reduce milking labor 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:49.220 by 20 -30%. Okay. But you still require skilled 00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:51.299 personnel. You can't automate transition cow 00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.820 management, health monitoring, or complex breeding 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.879 programs. Not really. The skill gap remains. 00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:59.559 It just shifts from parlor management to technology 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.620 management. You need tech -savvy people. So if 00:16:02.620 --> 00:16:05.019 the million -dollar robot system reduces the 00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:07.620 volume of required labor but doesn't solve the 00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:10.350 skill and consistency problem fast enough, Where 00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:12.470 should the farmer who needs stability and ROI 00:16:12.470 --> 00:16:15.070 be focusing their capital? What's the smart money 00:16:15.070 --> 00:16:17.009 move? This is where the contrary intake comes 00:16:17.009 --> 00:16:19.509 in. And this is the insight we want the farmer 00:16:19.509 --> 00:16:22.659 driving to the feed store to grasp today. Targeted 00:16:22.659 --> 00:16:25.299 automation provides much better, faster ROI. 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.419 Why? Because it maximizes the efficiency and 00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:30.620 longevity of the skilled workers you do retain. 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.980 Why commit to a $1 million system with a seven 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:36.500 -year depreciation schedule when incremental 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:39.299 strategic investments deliver immediate, measurable 00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:41.899 efficiency gains? Okay, let's talk brass tacks. 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:43.679 What are these targeted investments? Give us 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.509 specifics. All right, here's the data point that 00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:47.610 should change your investment strategy. Automatic 00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:50.090 takeoffs. Simple attachments that automatically 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:52.669 detach the milking cluster when milk flow drops. 00:16:52.789 --> 00:16:55.750 They cost only $2 ,000 to $3 ,000 per stall. 00:16:55.970 --> 00:16:58.009 That's achievable, right? Yeah. It's an immediate 00:16:58.009 --> 00:17:00.950 efficiency gain that reduces overmilking, reduces 00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:03.649 the risk of mastitis, and allows one milker to 00:17:03.649 --> 00:17:06.450 manage more stalls effectively. Compare that 00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:08.529 capital cost and maintenance burden to the full 00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:11.809 robot cost. It's night and day. Another major 00:17:11.809 --> 00:17:14.349 win which addresses the reproduction impact we 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:16.849 discussed is activity monitors. Huge potential 00:17:16.849 --> 00:17:20.769 there. Absolutely. At $100 to $150 per cow, Penn 00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:23.170 State Extension data shows these monitors can 00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:25.410 increase heat detection rates by a whopping 20 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:28.569 to 25 percent. That instantly improves your breeding 00:17:28.569 --> 00:17:30.710 success and reproduction program, which pays 00:17:30.710 --> 00:17:33.210 back in months, not years, through lower open 00:17:33.210 --> 00:17:35.710 rates and tighter calving intervals. You're replacing 00:17:35.710 --> 00:17:37.869 the need for an experienced milker to visually 00:17:37.869 --> 00:17:40.910 monitor cows for hours, which is a massive labor 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:43.710 saver in terms of time and accuracy. It's a game 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:46.440 changer for repro. And simple things like automated 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.039 feed pushers, which run about $25 ,000 to $35 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.240 ,000 for a robotic unit. Seems like a no -brainer. 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.799 They reduce labor while ensuring the feed remains 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.000 fresh and available to the cow 24 -7, increasing 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.220 feed intake and overall production consistency. 00:18:00.579 --> 00:18:02.880 So when you look at the ROI, comparison -targeted 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.180 automation, often shows payback within 18 months, 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.940 vastly superior to the 5 -7 year cycle for full 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:10.299 robotics. The choice for operational stability 00:18:10.299 --> 00:18:13.269 and profitability is clear. The focus must be 00:18:13.269 --> 00:18:15.369 on maximizing the efficiency of the skilled labor 00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:17.930 you do retain, rather than attempting a massive, 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:20.490 risky capital overhaul that often fails to solve 00:18:20.490 --> 00:18:23.309 the deep skill deficit anyway. Okay, since we've 00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:25.329 established that relying on federal reform for 00:18:25.329 --> 00:18:28.730 the H -2A program anytime soon is, well, a fantasy, 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:31.670 let's be honest, we need to examine the pragmatic 00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:34.430 solutions states have implemented that provide 00:18:34.430 --> 00:18:36.990 daily stability to the workforce, even if they 00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:39.170 don't solve the workers' ultimate federal legal 00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:42.019 status. Yeah, the prime example is driver's license 00:18:42.019 --> 00:18:44.500 programs for all residents, regardless of immigration 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:48.500 status. California implemented AB 60 way back 00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:51.960 in 2015. New York passed the Greenlight Law in 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.519 2019. Now, 15 states have similar programs allowing 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.059 undocumented immigrants to obtain driver's licenses 00:18:58.059 --> 00:19:00.900 upon passing the requisite tests. And the reasoning 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.130 here is highly practical, not political. Deer 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:06.549 operations are rural. Workers need to drive to 00:19:06.549 --> 00:19:08.710 the farm, often at 4 a .m., and they need to 00:19:08.710 --> 00:19:10.190 run errands for their families, like everyone 00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:12.430 else. Having them drive legally, safely, with 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:14.450 proper insurance, and without fear of a minor 00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:16.329 traffic violation escalating into an immigration 00:19:16.329 --> 00:19:18.710 issue is better for everyone, the workers, the 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:20.549 farms, and the general public. It just makes 00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:23.380 sense. The data backs this up, too. A UC Davis 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:26.160 study confirmed this practicality. California's 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.519 program reduced uninsured drivers by 15 % and 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.660 saw a 7 -10 % reduction in hit -and -run accidents. 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.539 This isn't just about labor supply. It's about 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:38.160 road safety and minimizing the risk of a simple 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.599 traffic stop escalating into an incident that 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.140 shuts down a dairy, like the one we saw in Manitowoc. 00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:46.059 It creates an operational buffer zone. That's 00:19:46.059 --> 00:19:49.130 key. Now, while some key dairy states like Wisconsin 00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:51.609 and Idaho have faced political hurdles in passing 00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:54.450 similar license programs, other local adaptations 00:19:54.450 --> 00:19:57.420 are emerging to create stability. Right. Idaho, 00:19:57.500 --> 00:19:59.599 for example, has seen counties working directly 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:01.859 with dairies on innovative housing and transportation 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:04.660 solutions. The goal is to reduce the workers' 00:20:04.779 --> 00:20:07.380 need to drive on public roads altogether, often 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:09.539 facilitating private transportation or building 00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:12.140 subsidized, high -quality housing directly adjacent 00:20:12.140 --> 00:20:14.720 to the farm. This investment in housing, like 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.880 the producer near Twin Falls we mentioned, is 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.299 viewed as a retention and stability tool. It 00:20:19.299 --> 00:20:21.240 reduces dependence on public infrastructure and 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.819 mitigates risk. Smart move. So if that's the 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:26.440 state landscape, a patchwork of stability solutions. 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.940 What are the smart operational strategies progressive 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.400 farms are implementing right now to manage this 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.799 uncertainty and ensure they survive the next 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.660 enforcement wave? They are focused on three core 00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:40.160 immediate areas that involve both legal action 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:43.339 and personnel investment. Three key things. First, 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.549 strengthening compliance. This means ensuring 00:20:46.549 --> 00:20:49.809 I -9 documentation is absolutely bulletproof. 00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:52.849 No question. And that means collaborating proactively 00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:55.609 with specialized agricultural attorneys to understand 00:20:55.609 --> 00:20:58.130 your legal obligations and risks in case of an 00:20:58.130 --> 00:21:00.670 audit or enforcement action. You need to know 00:21:00.670 --> 00:21:02.750 where you stand. You need internal protocols 00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:05.250 that are robust and defensible. Groups like the 00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:07.589 Wisconsin Dairy Alliance and Edge Dairy Farmer 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.170 Cooperative offer training and resources specifically 00:21:10.170 --> 00:21:13.190 on compliance. This is about managing the risk 00:21:13.190 --> 00:21:15.400 you can control. Second. political engagement. 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:18.119 Hope is not a strategy. Waiting for policy to 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.500 fix itself is a guaranteed way to lose your labor 00:21:20.500 --> 00:21:22.940 pool. You have to get involved. Coordinated action 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:25.480 through organizations is essential. This means 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.440 the National Milk Producers Federation, NMPF, 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:31.079 Immigration Task Force, the Wisconsin Dairy Alliance, 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.480 and the Edge Dairy Farmer Cooperative are all 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.339 crucial allies. Use them. But it's even more 00:21:36.339 --> 00:21:38.359 important that individual producers step up and 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:41.150 testify about their operational reality. Tell 00:21:41.150 --> 00:21:43.589 your story. We heard the story of the farmer 00:21:43.589 --> 00:21:45.809 from Marathon County who recently testified about 00:21:45.809 --> 00:21:48.109 losing two workers and nearly missing a milk 00:21:48.109 --> 00:21:51.170 pickup because of it. That real world localized 00:21:51.170 --> 00:21:53.750 testimony is what moves state legislators faster 00:21:53.750 --> 00:21:56.029 than any paid lobbyist. It really does. I agree. 00:21:56.230 --> 00:21:58.390 That farm to legislator connection is powerful. 00:21:58.930 --> 00:22:01.569 Finally, the third strategy is investing heavily 00:22:01.569 --> 00:22:04.210 in personnel and retention. This isn't just about 00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:06.569 wages. It's about creating long term viability 00:22:06.569 --> 00:22:09.670 for your key people. Exactly. This means creating 00:22:09.670 --> 00:22:12.710 clear advancement opportunities, providing high 00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:14.890 -quality training in things like fresh cow management 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:18.150 and equipment maintenance, and, crucially, improving 00:22:18.150 --> 00:22:21.349 housing. The producer near Twin Falls nailed 00:22:21.349 --> 00:22:23.309 this when he said his best investment wasn't 00:22:23.309 --> 00:22:25.609 the new parlor. It was the apartments he built 00:22:25.609 --> 00:22:28.200 for his long -term employees. That says it all. 00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:31.299 Keeping experienced workers, regardless of their 00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:33.180 status, by making them feel valued and secure 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:35.799 is always more cost effective than dealing with 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:38.819 constant destabilizing turnover and the resulting 00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:41.660 drop in milk quality. Always. All right, Jake, 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:43.779 let's translate this extensive deep dive into 00:22:43.779 --> 00:22:46.059 three critical, actionable steps for the farmer 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:48.559 listening right now, perhaps driving the tractor 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.160 or heading to the feed store. Yeah. We need clarity 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.779 and prioritization. What do they do? Okay, we've 00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:55.720 got to prioritize immediate compliance action, 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.079 strategic financial investment, and relentless 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:00.240 policy positioning. It's a three -legged stool. 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.519 Immediate action this week. Strengthening the 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.519 core. What's the single most vital risk -reducing 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.119 thing they should do right now, today? Review 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.619 and strengthen your I -9 documentation compliance 00:23:11.619 --> 00:23:14.640 immediately. This is not optional risk management. 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.079 It's essential. Engage with an agricultural attorney 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.779 or utilize compliance resources offered by trusted 00:23:20.779 --> 00:23:22.740 groups like the National Milk Producers Federation 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.619 or the Wisconsin Dairy Alliance. Now. You need 00:23:26.619 --> 00:23:28.579 to understand your regulatory obligations and 00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:31.599 associated risks perfectly. Don't wait for an 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:33.720 audit to find out your paperwork is shaky, because 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:35.940 that's the first line of defense. Get it right. 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.559 That's job one. Protecting the current operation. 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.880 Medium -term strategy. Next three, six months. 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.539 Strategic tech investment. How should they adjust 00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:45.420 their capital spending plan away from the industry 00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:48.180 hype? Okay, evaluate targeted automation for 00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:50.420 immediate labor efficiency gains and improved 00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:54.140 herd management. Focus on the quick wins. Prioritize 00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:56.539 those low capital projects with a fast proven 00:23:56.539 --> 00:23:59.220 payback. We're talking about automatic takeoffs. 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.799 Remember, $2 ,000 to $3 ,000 both stall, immediate 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.759 efficiency and activity monitors at $150 per 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:07.960 cow to tighten up reproduction rates by 20 % 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.579 or more. Focus strictly on projects with sub 00:24:10.579 --> 00:24:13.359 -18 month payback periods, maximizing your existing 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.500 skilled labor pool. Forget the pressure to build 00:24:15.500 --> 00:24:17.640 the full robot barn for now and focus on the 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.960 ROI of retention and efficiency. Smart money. 00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:22.400 And finally, long -term positioning, next one 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.539 in two years. Community and policy engagement. 00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:26.960 This requires time and political bandwidth, but 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.660 it's crucial. You need to be proactive, not reactive. 00:24:30.269 --> 00:24:32.589 Engage with your state legislators and key dairy 00:24:32.589 --> 00:24:35.690 organizations. The NMPF, American Dairy Coalition, 00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:39.069 EDGE. Make your voice heard. Advocate strongly 00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:41.150 for state -level stability solutions, particularly 00:24:41.150 --> 00:24:43.789 driver's license programs, and push for sustained 00:24:43.789 --> 00:24:46.269 federal reform that recognizes year -round labor 00:24:46.269 --> 00:24:49.109 needs. Keep pushing. Understand that engagement 00:24:49.109 --> 00:24:51.450 drives change faster than hoping, and actively 00:24:51.450 --> 00:24:53.849 building community relationships, like investing 00:24:53.849 --> 00:24:56.349 in high -quality worker housing, can create those 00:24:56.349 --> 00:24:58.549 necessary operational buffer zones that protect 00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:00.039 your investment and insurance. sure your milk 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.460 check remains consistent. Build those bridges. 00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:05.099 This has been another essential deep dive from 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.380 the Bullvine podcast. We tackled the paradox 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.440 that supports 226 billion pounds of milk production 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.359 survival without legal labor and hopefully provided 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.339 a clear financial path forward through targeted 00:25:15.339 --> 00:25:17.900 investment. If this kind of practical no BS analysis 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:21.359 helps your operation, head to www .thebullvine 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.799 .com for the full feature article and more resources 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:25.420 that tell you what's really happening in dairy. 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:28.359 And seriously, subscribe wherever you get your 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.380 listening material. We're releasing deep dives 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:34.559 twice weekly now. And trust me, you don't want 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.500 to miss what we've got coming next week. We're 00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:38.819 looking at the true margin impact of high protein 00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:41.880 contracts and how the current supply chain might 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.119 be manipulating the metrics that determine your 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.539 price. You need to hear this. But before we sign 00:25:47.539 --> 00:25:49.880 off, here's one final provocative thought for 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.480 you to chew on this week. The vulnerability of 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.079 your workforce is the single biggest unmanaged 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.880 risk on your balance sheet today. Think about 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:01.150 that. The challenge is clear. Will you contact 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:03.769 your state dairy organization this week, sharing 00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:05.789 your operational reality and pushing for stability 00:26:05.789 --> 00:26:08.589 solutions? Or will you wait for the next enforcement 00:26:08.589 --> 00:26:10.670 action to hit your county and just hope your 00:26:10.670 --> 00:26:13.009 operation survives the disruption? The choice, 00:26:13.009 --> 00:26:15.230 as always, is yours. We'll talk to you next time.