WEBVTT 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:14.039 Creeping across the pasture land. Got dirt on 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:18.719 the boots and a working hand. From the milk house 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:24.000 home to the auction call. These are the folks 00:00:24.000 --> 00:01:01.850 standing strong and tall. Yeah, this is... Welcome 00:01:01.850 --> 00:01:04.769 to the Bullvine Podcast, where real dairy voices 00:01:04.769 --> 00:01:07.049 bring you the stories behind the industry's headlines. 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:10.750 Today, we're diving deep into a legacy that's 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:13.790 shaped modern U .S. dairy policy and kept countless 00:01:13.790 --> 00:01:17.870 producers afloat through thick and thin. In this 00:01:17.870 --> 00:01:20.170 special episode, we sit down with Jim Mulhern, 00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:23.069 outgoing president and CEO of the National Milk 00:01:23.069 --> 00:01:25.870 Producers Federation, to talk about his decades 00:01:25.870 --> 00:01:28.980 of leadership, the big wins, the tough calls, 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:31.359 and the unfinished business that matters most 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:34.480 to dairy farm families. Grab your coffee, pull 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.060 up a seat, and join us for an honest conversation 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.120 about the challenges, lessons, and future of 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:42.719 our industry, straight from a man whose story 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:47.379 is measured one season at a time. So I always 00:01:47.379 --> 00:01:50.719 find it's best to start at the beginning. So 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:52.700 you've talked about in the past, growing up in 00:01:52.700 --> 00:01:57.790 a small town in Wisconsin, How did your roots 00:01:57.790 --> 00:02:01.250 or how did that growing up on a farm shape your 00:02:01.250 --> 00:02:04.930 wanting to get into farming and your career from 00:02:04.930 --> 00:02:09.550 there on? Well, the journey for me started in 00:02:09.550 --> 00:02:13.590 small town Wisconsin. My father had grown up 00:02:13.590 --> 00:02:16.909 on a dairy farm prior to World War II. After 00:02:16.909 --> 00:02:20.830 the war, he left the farm. It was a small dairy. 00:02:23.140 --> 00:02:27.500 He moved to Milwaukee after the war to work and 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:31.840 then came back to the home area in south central 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:36.800 Wisconsin, just north of Madison. And so I grew 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.960 up with family members. My grandfather had a 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.300 farm. My friends growing up had farms. I spent 00:02:43.300 --> 00:02:47.000 a lot of time in and around farms. And that's 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:52.229 what I knew. I also knew. When I got into high 00:02:52.229 --> 00:02:55.229 school and headed to college, having not grown 00:02:55.229 --> 00:02:57.409 up on a farm, I wasn't going to be a farmer. 00:02:58.849 --> 00:03:02.289 If nothing else, the cost of starting up when 00:03:02.289 --> 00:03:05.810 you didn't have a family background or a family 00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:08.969 farm to go to back in those days wasn't going 00:03:08.969 --> 00:03:12.169 to happen. But I had that interest in agriculture, 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:15.330 so that's why I majored in ag journalism at the 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:18.289 University of Wisconsin and figured that I was 00:03:18.289 --> 00:03:21.889 going to find my path. into agriculture that 00:03:21.889 --> 00:03:28.110 way. I had a parallel interest in policy and 00:03:28.110 --> 00:03:30.770 politics that was kind of instilled in me at 00:03:30.770 --> 00:03:34.129 a young age. You know, some great teachers in 00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:40.210 junior high school, high school, and I grew up 00:03:40.210 --> 00:03:43.250 in the 70s, late 60s, early 70s, so it was a 00:03:43.250 --> 00:03:48.490 lot of political upheaval in the country during 00:03:48.490 --> 00:03:52.729 that. that period, I was just always interested 00:03:52.729 --> 00:03:59.229 in how politics could have an influence on society 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:05.009 and on people. I had a chance to come to Washington, 00:04:05.150 --> 00:04:07.289 D .C. to do an internship when I was in college, 00:04:07.530 --> 00:04:11.789 work for my local member of Congress, and the 00:04:11.789 --> 00:04:15.129 issue portfolio that I worked on at that summer 00:04:15.129 --> 00:04:18.470 was largely agriculture, which kind of fit my 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.339 college background. And through that, I kind 00:04:22.339 --> 00:04:24.639 of put the two together. And when I finished 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.500 college and I got my degree in ag journalism, 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:31.839 I went to work for a milk marketing cooperative 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.060 based in Wisconsin, but representing producers. 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:38.160 And it was marketing, so it wasn't a processing 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.220 or manufacturing co -op. It was a marketing and 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:46.209 testing service co -op. It represented producers 00:04:46.209 --> 00:04:48.949 in the five -state area, Wisconsin, Minnesota, 00:04:49.370 --> 00:04:53.089 Illinois, Iowa, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:57.949 And we did a lot of work on policy issues for 00:04:57.949 --> 00:05:00.410 our members. So that's really where I got deeply 00:05:00.410 --> 00:05:03.750 engaged in the policy side of it. But, you know, 00:05:03.769 --> 00:05:05.490 going back to the beginning of the question, 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:08.569 it really was growing up in a small town, in 00:05:08.569 --> 00:05:11.069 and around farms, loving the lifestyle, loving, 00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:13.810 you know, the people. both family members and 00:05:13.810 --> 00:05:16.889 friends. So that lifestyle really appealed to 00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:21.709 me. And was there someone who really helped shape 00:05:21.709 --> 00:05:24.389 all that? I think I read somewhere or mentioned 00:05:24.389 --> 00:05:26.829 that you had a seventh grade teacher that really 00:05:26.829 --> 00:05:28.970 helped influence you or had an impact on this 00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:32.750 trajectory for you. Yeah, it's really interesting 00:05:32.750 --> 00:05:35.370 when you get to this point in your life and you 00:05:35.370 --> 00:05:39.449 reflect back on how your journey played out. 00:05:39.550 --> 00:05:42.550 I've often thought of those. Those teachers, 00:05:42.810 --> 00:05:45.110 and they have been at a young age, teachers who, 00:05:45.209 --> 00:05:48.209 you know, they see something in a student and 00:05:48.209 --> 00:05:52.850 they sparked an interest. And for me, it was 00:05:52.850 --> 00:05:56.550 Mr. Houghton, my seventh grade social studies 00:05:56.550 --> 00:06:02.129 teacher. And he kind of just brought issues and 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.610 politics to life. This is a guy who had been 00:06:04.610 --> 00:06:08.540 a Korean War veteran. I remember him talking 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:11.560 about what it was like to be in a farming school 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.439 during the Vietnam War in junior high school. 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:18.279 And it was, you know, he brought to life what 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:23.480 it was like, you know, in the army, where you're 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.500 not, when you're fighting the enemy, especially 00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:31.120 in infantry back in those days, you're not shooting 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:32.939 at somebody. You're just, you're kind of shooting. 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.060 And you know somebody's over there, but you don't 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:39.310 see your target. That may sound like a very small 00:06:39.310 --> 00:06:42.170 example, but it kind of opened my eyes to things 00:06:42.170 --> 00:06:45.290 that I had no comprehension, no understanding 00:06:45.290 --> 00:06:49.730 of. And he had that ability just through making 00:06:49.730 --> 00:06:55.850 issues personal and real. And that stood out 00:06:55.850 --> 00:06:58.009 for me. And I had several teachers in high school, 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:02.550 my journalism teachers, who helped me. They saw 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.230 something in me. I wasn't a good writer, I didn't 00:07:05.230 --> 00:07:10.910 think. But I had an interest in issues and could 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:13.529 ask good questions. So it was along the way having 00:07:13.529 --> 00:07:18.470 teachers who took a deep interest in me. And 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:25.290 I recognize now that's so important. in forming 00:07:25.290 --> 00:07:28.730 a person's life. And so I give so much credit 00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:32.569 to people like that. And I will say that I had 00:07:32.569 --> 00:07:36.110 those kind of people all along my way in my career. 00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:39.470 When I went to Washington, the congressman that 00:07:39.470 --> 00:07:42.810 I interned for became my political mentor because 00:07:42.810 --> 00:07:45.129 after a few years, he was the one I came back 00:07:45.129 --> 00:07:47.649 to Washington to work for on his staff full time. 00:07:48.250 --> 00:07:52.389 And I learned so much in all those. So I've always 00:07:52.389 --> 00:07:56.879 taken that, that learning and try to apply it 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.120 with people who work for me, understanding the 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.920 impact you can have on people and on their careers 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.339 and on their lives by taking an interest in them, 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:09.759 seeing what spark they have and trying to fuel 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.660 it, trying to boost it. And I think when you 00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:15.660 look at your career, I think that who you serve 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:18.160 or the interest in people comes through quite 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.319 clear. in the career you have had. Was there 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:24.439 a time maybe during your career or early on that 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.759 it really clicked for you that the policies and 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:29.000 the work you were doing would have a real impact 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:32.480 or could have a real impact on people? I think 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:36.860 I first realized that in my initial stint on 00:08:36.860 --> 00:08:40.360 Capitol Hill, working for a member of Congress 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.480 from Wisconsin with my portfolio of issues that 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.820 I handled was agriculture, some environmental 00:08:46.820 --> 00:08:51.750 issues. but also federal budget and tax policy 00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:55.450 issues. In the office that I worked in, you not 00:08:55.450 --> 00:08:59.110 only covered the issues, but you drafted the 00:08:59.110 --> 00:09:03.169 correspondence. When constituents write letters 00:09:03.169 --> 00:09:07.210 or call in concerned about an issue, you do the 00:09:07.210 --> 00:09:10.570 research and draft a letter for the congressman 00:09:10.570 --> 00:09:14.850 to review and to sign and send back to the constituent. 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:17.659 And we would do casework. Constituents would 00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:19.940 call in if they had a problem with, you know, 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:24.440 back in those days, the USDA's Agriculture Farm, 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.120 what is today the Farm Service Agency, back in 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.980 those days was the old ASCS, Agricultural Stabilization 00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:35.860 and Conservation Service. It actually came out 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:41.320 of the 1930s and 1940s. So I did casework and 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.250 worked on a number of issues. that had a direct 00:09:45.250 --> 00:09:47.870 impact on farmers so when you're you're talking 00:09:47.870 --> 00:09:50.929 directly to them and you're working on issues 00:09:50.929 --> 00:09:55.570 that impact them you really could see how the 00:09:55.570 --> 00:09:58.090 work you're doing does make a difference in people's 00:09:58.090 --> 00:10:01.070 lives and on just issue after issue that occurred 00:10:01.070 --> 00:10:06.750 that that would happen and when you know for 00:10:06.750 --> 00:10:09.250 me it was looking for more of that more opportunities 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:14.740 to how can i keep increasing the impact that 00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:18.220 I can have on policy that matters to people that 00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:23.559 I know or that I can picture their lives. And 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:25.539 it was easy to do in agriculture. And it was 00:10:25.539 --> 00:10:28.960 in Washington, D .C., where every issue under 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.919 the sun is addressed at the federal policy level. 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:36.679 You get into your area, get into that lane, and 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.740 work the issues. You get to know the people who 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:42.750 are who are engaged in the issues and are impacted 00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:45.850 by it, and you get that dialogue going. So it 00:10:45.850 --> 00:10:49.350 really was a way to practice what I would call 00:10:49.350 --> 00:10:53.169 kind of retail politics and retail policy. You're 00:10:53.169 --> 00:10:55.289 impacting people, and you can talk to them and 00:10:55.289 --> 00:10:59.730 find out what their needs are and then try to 00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:03.929 figure out ways to address those. And viewing 00:11:03.929 --> 00:11:06.509 in the dairy industry that, you know, there's 00:11:06.509 --> 00:11:08.950 a lot of people with strong opinions. You've 00:11:08.950 --> 00:11:12.230 become known for that kind of collaborative leadership 00:11:12.230 --> 00:11:15.509 style. Is there a moment when that really clicked 00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:17.809 for you or someone who helped to really focus 00:11:17.809 --> 00:11:19.789 you on that, or is it just something you had 00:11:19.789 --> 00:11:24.129 to develop over time? Well, I think part of that 00:11:24.129 --> 00:11:27.470 collaborative style started early for me. I was 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:31.919 the middle child in a family of nine. And, you 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.019 know, working class family. If I didn't collaborate, 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.299 I had two older brothers and two younger brothers. 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.320 I was stuck right in the middle. And then I had 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.399 four sisters. If I didn't collaborate, I wasn't 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:48.399 going to get enough to eat. And you just learn 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.679 to work things out. So, you know, I joke that 00:11:50.679 --> 00:12:00.990 it really did start early in life for me. who 00:12:00.990 --> 00:12:04.529 I saw how they operated. It was people who put 00:12:04.529 --> 00:12:07.409 people first. I was fortunate to work for a member 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.070 of Congress who was actually, I don't think he 00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:14.429 would, he certainly wouldn't thrive and perhaps 00:12:14.429 --> 00:12:17.850 not even survive in politics today. He was very 00:12:17.850 --> 00:12:22.929 self -effacing. It was never about him. It was 00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:26.450 about policy and what he could get done. He had 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:29.549 very strong views on issues. you know, he knew 00:12:29.549 --> 00:12:31.610 his constituency, and he really wanted to represent 00:12:31.610 --> 00:12:38.710 them. So I just found in agriculture, I think 00:12:38.710 --> 00:12:40.269 there's something about the people in agriculture 00:12:40.269 --> 00:12:42.230 that are largely collaborative. Yeah, there's 00:12:42.230 --> 00:12:44.009 a lot of strong opinions, and I've dealt with, 00:12:44.029 --> 00:12:48.929 you know, people's strong will, but I've been 00:12:48.929 --> 00:12:51.590 able to deal with them, and I think the biggest 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.210 thing I've always found is to listen. If you 00:12:54.210 --> 00:13:00.110 listen to people carefully and can, understand 00:13:00.110 --> 00:13:04.669 what it is they want and need. You can't deliver 00:13:04.669 --> 00:13:10.230 it 100%, but you get a sense of what can and 00:13:10.230 --> 00:13:13.110 will work. And politics, as we all know, is a 00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:17.529 compromise. You've got strong views on both sides. 00:13:17.730 --> 00:13:21.529 You're trying to work them out. And we're kind 00:13:21.529 --> 00:13:23.730 of missing that, I think, in our politics today. 00:13:24.370 --> 00:13:27.159 It's one of the challenges we have as a... as 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:29.159 a country, and I think it's not just the U .S. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:31.960 It's, you know, Canada's just had its elections, 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.299 and, you know, there's divisions there. Europe 00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:37.559 has the same situation. It's kind of around the 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:42.659 world where we're separating into our camps rather 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:45.779 than trying to come together and work that middle 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:47.700 ground where I think everything that's important 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:52.220 really happens. So for me, collaboration was 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:55.110 just a natural. And, you know, I think in every 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:57.389 aspect of life, you think of a relationship you're 00:13:57.389 --> 00:14:00.309 in. To be successful in a relationship, you've 00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:02.769 got to collaborate. You've got to work things 00:14:02.769 --> 00:14:07.110 out. And it's the same in business. In any organization, 00:14:07.409 --> 00:14:08.809 you've got to try to work things out to move 00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:11.789 things forward. So for me, it's always been kind 00:14:11.789 --> 00:14:14.610 of a, duh, this is what you have to do to get 00:14:14.610 --> 00:14:18.799 things done. And looking back. Are there certain 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:21.919 incidences, projects, or initiatives that really 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.460 stand out that you're the most proud of that 00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:26.960 you were able to accomplish that over your career? 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.200 You know, Andrew, when you have a long career 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:38.279 of, for me, 45 plus years, I was fortunate to 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.639 be engaged in a lot of different issues and battles. 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.460 And there are a number of them that come to mind. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:53.259 I think on the dairy policy side, our industry 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:59.779 has, throughout my life, had to deal with those 00:14:59.779 --> 00:15:03.860 issues of supply and demand balance. Dairy farmers, 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:08.399 dairy cows are so incredibly productive. You 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:12.110 give us a market and we can produce. All the 00:15:12.110 --> 00:15:17.090 milk for that had been some. And trying to achieve 00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:20.789 that balance between supply and demand so that 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:23.529 you can have good market prices is something 00:15:23.529 --> 00:15:26.549 that this industry has struggled with forever. 00:15:28.330 --> 00:15:31.850 Policies have had an impact on that. I was involved 00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:34.970 in some of the fights. The 1980s was a period 00:15:34.970 --> 00:15:38.409 of, early 80s was a period of huge milk surpluses 00:15:38.409 --> 00:15:41.450 in the U .S. And the federal government was buying 00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:45.970 product, cheese, butter, nonfat dry milk, and 00:15:45.970 --> 00:15:48.370 putting those into storage. And it would sell 00:15:48.370 --> 00:15:51.769 them back to the trade when prices improved. 00:15:53.870 --> 00:15:56.830 But it was a gerbil on a wheel. You were always 00:15:56.830 --> 00:16:00.549 kind of stuck in as soon as prices got better, 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:04.309 USDA would by law have to start selling product 00:16:04.309 --> 00:16:07.669 back to the trade. And that would depress prices. 00:16:08.110 --> 00:16:12.070 So we knew we needed to try to deal with that. 00:16:12.190 --> 00:16:14.389 Canada has dealt with it through supply management. 00:16:14.870 --> 00:16:17.549 And, you know, there's a lot of success that 00:16:17.549 --> 00:16:21.450 that's had for the Canadian dairy industry. In 00:16:21.450 --> 00:16:23.870 the U .S., there's been less interest in supply 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:27.769 management. We're long past that period in most 00:16:27.769 --> 00:16:31.610 of our commodities where supply management is 00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:36.159 used. It's not a viable. And producers really 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.980 don't want that. But we have to try to develop 00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:42.500 policies that provide some safety net to producers. 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:48.559 And I will say that that evolution from the, 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.580 say, the dairy diversion program in the early 00:16:52.580 --> 00:16:56.320 80s to the dairy termination program in the mid 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.019 -80s, when we actually, the USDA, the federal 00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:03.259 government, paid producers to sell their entire 00:17:03.259 --> 00:17:07.740 herds. and exit the business and got a payment 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.279 for doing that. That was a way of trying to achieve 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:12.980 supply and demand balance. We moved away from 00:17:12.980 --> 00:17:17.539 those. Moving ahead through the years, we've 00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:20.140 moved toward a risk management approach. And 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:23.660 I've been very pleased to be part of that evolution 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:27.380 in policy to get to the point today where we 00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:30.359 have, I think, a very effective safety net program. 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:34.279 in the dairy margin coverage program here in 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:38.380 the U .S. that works very well for small and 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:41.960 medium -sized producers and provides catastrophic 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.519 protection to large producers. So there's something 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.420 for everybody in that program, and it does so 00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:55.099 with producer engagements. They pay a premium 00:17:55.099 --> 00:17:58.880 for the coverage. and it's done a great deal 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.140 to provide an effective safety net and balances 00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:10.700 the program by not putting excess burden on taxpayers. 00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:14.339 It's not an expensive, costly program, and it 00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:16.920 doesn't interfere with the marketplace. So I 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.819 think that the movement toward risk management 00:18:19.819 --> 00:18:24.319 during the course of my career is a major thing 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.039 that I'm pleased with. Lots of other issues as 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.059 well that we could talk about, but that's a big 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.500 one. You have mentioned in the past that working 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:36.099 with the board, with Randy Mooney, and the board 00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:37.900 has had a very positive influence in bringing 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:41.220 about these changes. Can you comment on how that 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:43.660 has affected your ability to move policy forward? 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:48.220 Well, I will say that the 10, 11 years that I 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:52.839 was head of National Milk, I was blessed by having 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:58.970 incredible leadership. both in the chair, my 00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:02.609 officers and executive committee, and the full 00:19:02.609 --> 00:19:08.730 board. When I came in, I did so with a lot of 00:19:08.730 --> 00:19:10.210 experience in the dairy industry. I worked on 00:19:10.210 --> 00:19:12.769 dairy policy. When I took the job as president 00:19:12.769 --> 00:19:18.609 and CEO, I was 30 -plus years into my career 00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:23.690 in dairy policy. So I had a really good perspective. 00:19:24.829 --> 00:19:29.029 on the history, what works, what doesn't work. 00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:36.910 And I think a maturity at that point that I did 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:41.809 not want to spend my time tilting at windmills, 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:47.109 just taking on issues that we weren't going to 00:19:47.109 --> 00:19:49.589 be able to resolve or that we could not get agreement 00:19:49.589 --> 00:19:51.990 on. I've been through some of those issues earlier 00:19:51.990 --> 00:19:54.519 in my career. where the industry was divided. 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.480 And I knew that there's just no point banging 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.160 your head against the wall to push something 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:06.700 when you've got a 50 -50 or even a 60 -40 and 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:10.619 almost a 70 -30 split in your membership. If 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:16.119 you don't have a solid group behind you pushing 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.319 an issue, you're going to lose at the end of 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:23.089 the day in the halls of Congress. And that's 00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:24.930 something I talked to the board about, talked 00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:29.509 to leadership about when I started. But what 00:20:29.509 --> 00:20:33.549 I was most pleased about was the response of 00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:38.829 the leadership. I was blessed to work for an 00:20:38.829 --> 00:20:41.710 incredible chairman in Randy Mone. Randy was 00:20:41.710 --> 00:20:45.170 chair when I came in. He was also chair of and 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:50.369 is chair of Dairy Farmers of America. critically 00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:52.309 important hats for the U .S. dairy industry. 00:20:52.829 --> 00:20:56.089 And in my work with him at National Milk, the 00:20:56.089 --> 00:20:58.970 leadership he provided was just outstanding. 00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:02.869 He is a tremendous farm leader. There are so 00:21:02.869 --> 00:21:06.009 many issues where I would have an idea, and Randy 00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:10.950 was very, I will say, very patient with me and 00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:18.170 understood the membership. what we could get 00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:21.569 done as well or better than I did. And the ability 00:21:21.569 --> 00:21:26.349 to, the trust that he had in me and that I had 00:21:26.349 --> 00:21:30.369 in him that we developed early on, it just helped 00:21:30.369 --> 00:21:33.369 so much. And then Randy was surrounded by a group 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:36.170 of officers and executive committee all working 00:21:36.170 --> 00:21:38.349 together. You know, these are people that are 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:42.170 elected from their cooperatives across the country. 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.019 So they're heavily engaged in running their own 00:21:45.019 --> 00:21:47.799 cooperatives, come together on the national stage 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:53.039 to lead the producer community on so many issues 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.700 that we deal with at the federal level. It's 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:57.980 not just economic issues that I've talked about 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:02.519 some, but the trade issues, labor issues, environmental 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.700 issues, nutrition policy, tax policy, on and 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:09.200 on and on. I mean, there's just no shortage of 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.069 challenges and opportunities for... the dairy 00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:15.869 producer community. And to have the, we had the 00:22:15.869 --> 00:22:17.609 cream of the crop from across the country, the 00:22:17.609 --> 00:22:19.789 leaders in their own organizations and their 00:22:19.789 --> 00:22:22.470 own communities come together into the national 00:22:22.470 --> 00:22:25.470 organization, roll up their sleeves, and work 00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:28.250 together on issues that affect, you know, many 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:30.509 of them, affect them differently in different 00:22:30.509 --> 00:22:32.170 parts of the country and, you know, different 00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:36.369 size cooperatives. But the success we had by 00:22:36.369 --> 00:22:42.200 those folks pulling together and agreeing, with 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:46.980 my approach, that if we didn't have a strong 00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:49.940 consensus, a substantial majority, it really 00:22:49.940 --> 00:22:52.579 didn't make sense to try to push an issue on 00:22:52.579 --> 00:22:55.859 Capitol Hill where we're 60 -40. And I think 00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:58.440 that was one of the keys of our success, the 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.460 trust that they put in me and the trust that 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:04.880 I had in them when I saw how they responded to... 00:23:05.580 --> 00:23:08.180 to the perspective that I provided and the staff 00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:10.559 provided, we had a great relationship, and it 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:15.960 made the job not just possible, but it made it 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:20.259 a real joy. Now, I heard you mention the term 00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:25.160 herding cats, and I think about that in regards 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:28.859 to the federal milk marketing order and one of 00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.299 the major initiatives that you had to work through. 00:23:31.930 --> 00:23:34.910 How did you go about building the consensus amongst 00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.990 the co -ops to maybe adjust the goals or maybe 00:23:37.990 --> 00:23:39.930 goals that are completely different from before? 00:23:40.210 --> 00:23:43.769 How were you guys able to make that work? I think 00:23:43.769 --> 00:23:47.230 there's several secrets to the success in that 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:51.869 effort. One was the timing in which we took it 00:23:51.869 --> 00:23:57.630 on. I knew, having been through federal order, 00:23:58.170 --> 00:24:00.190 process at the local level, you know, working 00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:02.990 on issues at the, you know, the federal order, 00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:05.990 the geographic local level. And I started my 00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:09.130 career, you know, how they operated. And then 00:24:09.130 --> 00:24:12.210 I had been involved in some of the major reform 00:24:12.210 --> 00:24:15.750 in federal orders in the late 90s and the early 00:24:15.750 --> 00:24:18.369 aughts when, you know, Congress did an overhaul 00:24:18.369 --> 00:24:21.789 or set up an overhaul in the federal order program 00:24:21.789 --> 00:24:25.170 in the 1996 Farm Bill. And then we had hearings 00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:32.160 and came through the 2000. Since no major changes 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.579 have been made since 2000, the program was up. 00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:36.980 It needed some updating. It needed some changes. 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.940 But I knew that we had to wait to get through 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:46.819 some other issues first, Farm Bill. And sometimes 00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:50.240 it's when you take an issue on that is critically 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.259 important. Pressure had to build. And by the 00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:56.000 time that we moved forward with federal order, 00:24:56.950 --> 00:24:59.309 because it really wasn't reformed. We reformed 00:24:59.309 --> 00:25:03.349 it back in 2000. What we needed to do was modernize 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:05.049 the system because no major changes had been 00:25:05.049 --> 00:25:07.369 made, and it wasn't working as well as it could 00:25:07.369 --> 00:25:10.210 have. Industry moved forward. Things change. 00:25:10.549 --> 00:25:17.329 Just simple things like the content of the milk 00:25:17.329 --> 00:25:20.289 fat and protein, the solids not fat in milk, 00:25:20.369 --> 00:25:23.029 naturally occurring because of the improvements 00:25:23.029 --> 00:25:27.130 in animal genetics. They changed over 25 years, 00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:30.750 but we had pricing formulas that were tied to 00:25:30.750 --> 00:25:35.670 the protein and solids, not fat content, and 00:25:35.670 --> 00:25:39.390 even the average butterfat content of herds in 00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:44.130 2000. That's just one example. So as we moved 00:25:44.130 --> 00:25:48.430 forward, it was clear that the time was right 00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:53.470 to try to take on some of these issues. and put 00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:56.329 together a comprehensive update to the federal 00:25:56.329 --> 00:26:00.990 orders. One of the things that was key was to 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:05.849 understand and make sure our producers understood 00:26:05.849 --> 00:26:09.769 that the federal order program, since it's a 00:26:09.769 --> 00:26:12.009 national program, but it has regional impacts 00:26:12.009 --> 00:26:15.109 because you have 12 different federal orders 00:26:15.109 --> 00:26:17.809 in different parts of the U .S., and they have 00:26:17.809 --> 00:26:21.779 a... Most of the provisions of them are the same, 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.480 but in terms of the pricing structure on Class 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.960 I fluid milk, it differs around the country. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.359 So different orders had different issues. And 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:34.079 part of this process was putting together a package 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:39.039 that balanced all of that. We laid out up front, 00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:42.480 and Randy was a key part of this. Randy Mooney 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.700 was a key part of this. We laid out up front 00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:46.759 that nobody was going to get everything they 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:51.400 wanted. got together in a room, rolled up our 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.339 sleeves and worked on it, we could improve this 00:26:54.339 --> 00:26:56.960 system and modernize it like it needed to be 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.480 done. And that was the start of a process that 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.619 lasted over at least 18 months. We had hundreds 00:27:03.619 --> 00:27:07.359 of meetings, and we had the experts at the co 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.440 -op level. They came together and sat down in 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.480 rooms, meeting after meeting, in Zoom calls, 00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:17.180 talking through these issues to come up with 00:27:17.180 --> 00:27:19.720 a package. went with the processors and tried 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.279 to deal with some of the issues there. It was 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.200 a comprehensive, incredibly complex process, 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.859 but it started with the understanding that we 00:27:29.859 --> 00:27:33.700 could get things done if we worked together. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.480 And nobody was going to get everything they wanted, 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.339 but if we rolled up our sleeves and worked together, 00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:43.920 we could get this done. And that was key to the 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.940 process. Another could have been important. part 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:50.559 of this process was having the right leadership 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:56.200 to manage it. And I knew from my experience working 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.900 on these issues that it was going to take somebody 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:07.900 who had the expertise of using the federal order 00:28:07.900 --> 00:28:11.700 system at the cooperative level on how milk moves, 00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:16.230 what plants it goes to, how it's priced. And 00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:21.970 I was incredibly fortunate to convince Jim Sleeper, 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:24.509 who had extensive experience in the industry. 00:28:24.589 --> 00:28:26.710 He had worked for co -ops. He worked on the proprietary 00:28:26.710 --> 00:28:30.809 side. He had recently retired. I was able to 00:28:30.809 --> 00:28:34.630 convince Jim to take this effort on and lead 00:28:34.630 --> 00:28:38.369 it. And he's the guy that herded cats. He spent 00:28:38.369 --> 00:28:41.170 an incredible amount of time over that 18 months 00:28:41.170 --> 00:28:44.849 leading our effort, pulling people together. 00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:49.500 And working out the fine minutiae and details 00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:54.380 of this, the guy does. So huge, huge credit for 00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:57.119 quarterbacking this whole effort goes to Jim 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:00.920 and all the people at our co -ops who were engaged 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.700 in the guys who rolled up their sleeves, the 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:06.220 people who rolled up their sleeves and worked 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:09.859 together to come up with that package. And when 00:29:09.859 --> 00:29:13.309 you talk about... major changes, especially major 00:29:13.309 --> 00:29:15.529 changes that haven't happened in quite some time 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:20.130 that directly affect the producers' bottom lines, 00:29:20.210 --> 00:29:23.329 their sustainability. You get a lot of reaction. 00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:27.789 You get a lot of emotion. What message or what 00:29:27.789 --> 00:29:29.910 comments, now that we've gone through that, would 00:29:29.910 --> 00:29:32.549 you say to producers that they should understand 00:29:32.549 --> 00:29:39.470 or also take away from all this? Well, one of 00:29:39.470 --> 00:29:44.049 the key aspects of all of this was we at the 00:29:44.049 --> 00:29:46.869 end of the day we wanted to have a package of 00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:50.170 modernization that that had that was balanced 00:29:50.170 --> 00:29:55.490 um that you know when you adjust these formulas 00:29:55.490 --> 00:30:00.910 they have an impact and at the end of the day 00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:03.750 what the federal milk marketing order system 00:30:03.750 --> 00:30:08.029 is is about is assuring the orderly marketing 00:30:08.029 --> 00:30:14.029 of milk to protect producers and consumers. It 00:30:14.029 --> 00:30:16.410 came out of a period, if you go back to the start 00:30:16.410 --> 00:30:19.210 of the federal order system in the 1930s, you 00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:21.289 know, producers would ship their milk off to 00:30:21.289 --> 00:30:26.769 a handler, and they would be told what was the, 00:30:26.829 --> 00:30:29.289 you know, even what was the butterfat content. 00:30:29.410 --> 00:30:31.329 Back in those days, most of the milk was priced 00:30:31.329 --> 00:30:33.470 just on butterfat. We didn't price it on protein 00:30:33.470 --> 00:30:36.730 and other solids. You had no way of knowing. 00:30:37.339 --> 00:30:40.660 if the test you were told was the artifact content 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:43.099 of your milk was actually what was in that milk. 00:30:43.539 --> 00:30:47.339 And producers were at a disadvantage to their 00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:50.920 processors. The federal order system was designed 00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.480 to protect producers, and that's fundamentally 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:57.059 important. It is a producer program overall, 00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.880 and it's producers who vote on that program. 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.500 Any changes you make to a federal order, whether 00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:05.400 it's your own individual federal order or... 00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:08.170 in this case the national program, those are 00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:11.650 voted on at the local level by producers. And 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:14.950 it's also designed to protect consumers because 00:31:14.950 --> 00:31:17.869 you're trying to make sure that you have an adequate 00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:21.250 supply of milk so you don't have, you know, the 00:31:21.250 --> 00:31:24.710 roller coaster pricing on milk. Stability is 00:31:24.710 --> 00:31:27.069 important to producers. It's important to consumers. 00:31:27.309 --> 00:31:29.390 So that's really the heart and soul of the program. 00:31:30.289 --> 00:31:32.910 It needed to be updated. It needed to be modernized, 00:31:32.930 --> 00:31:34.990 as I said, to bring it up to date with the pricing 00:31:34.990 --> 00:31:40.250 formulas. And one of the factors of the federal 00:31:40.250 --> 00:31:46.809 order program is, again, the pricing of Class 00:31:46.809 --> 00:31:50.670 I fluid milk. And so that is a regulated price. 00:31:50.869 --> 00:31:52.849 It really is the only regulated price in the 00:31:52.849 --> 00:31:56.509 system because the price of milk that goes into 00:31:56.509 --> 00:32:02.000 cheese and whey, and butter and nonfat dry milk, 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.359 you know, the four major components, those will 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.619 determine the marketplace. And then there's a 00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:12.400 formula that's used to calculate, it's called, 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:17.079 you know, the end product pricing. What is the, 00:32:17.299 --> 00:32:20.420 you've got to, you take the value of milk going 00:32:20.420 --> 00:32:23.380 into cheese, there's a cost of baking that cheese, 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:27.480 and that has to be calculated to get the, you 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.940 know, the right, the right end product price 00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:34.380 on a 100 -way basis. It's known as the make allowance 00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:36.839 or the manufacturing allowance. It's the cost 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.940 of manufacturing a product. Those factors in 00:32:39.940 --> 00:32:41.440 the formula have not been increased for a long 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.619 time. They need to be updated. But when you adjust 00:32:45.619 --> 00:32:48.759 them, that has a, you know, that's a deduct. 00:32:49.059 --> 00:32:51.579 That is a, it reduces. You take the price of 00:32:51.579 --> 00:32:55.119 cheese, reduce it by the wholesale price of cheese, 00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.859 and reduce it by the cost of making it and some 00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:03.420 other factors. That's a deduct. That is going 00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.519 to reduce the price to producers. But you've 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.259 got to reflect what is that cost. And that was 00:33:08.259 --> 00:33:11.200 key to this whole process. We didn't want to 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.819 program at the end of the day that we modernized 00:33:13.819 --> 00:33:17.500 the system, but it cost producers money. The 00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:19.819 class one differentials had not been adjusted 00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:23.019 for some time. We needed to adjust those to reflect 00:33:23.019 --> 00:33:25.799 today's market conditions. So it was trying to 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:29.049 get that balance. that was important in the process, 00:33:29.309 --> 00:33:32.190 and I think we did a great job. And I think the 00:33:32.190 --> 00:33:35.390 vote of producers endorsing the modernization 00:33:35.390 --> 00:33:39.670 proposal from USDA is a reflection of that. It's 00:33:39.670 --> 00:33:41.529 not a program that's going to ensure, doesn't 00:33:41.529 --> 00:33:45.230 ensure profitability to anybody, but you do want 00:33:45.230 --> 00:33:48.829 to make sure that that system is providing orderly 00:33:48.829 --> 00:33:52.309 marketing and is providing transparent pricing 00:33:52.309 --> 00:33:54.890 to producers. And that really is what it does. 00:33:55.390 --> 00:33:57.529 And now that we've updated it, modernized it, 00:33:57.609 --> 00:33:59.950 it does it better than it did prior to the changes 00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:04.269 that were made. Now, another program that you've 00:34:04.269 --> 00:34:06.609 championed quite heavily, and rightfully so, 00:34:06.710 --> 00:34:09.230 was the Farm Program, not just for its animal 00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:11.809 care, but also about how it connects us with 00:34:11.809 --> 00:34:15.190 consumers and helps build trust with consumers. 00:34:15.869 --> 00:34:18.570 What do you wish more producers knew about the 00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:21.190 Farm Program, and how do you see it shaping the 00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:24.829 industry's future? I think the farm program is 00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:28.289 one of the best programs that the industry has 00:34:28.289 --> 00:34:31.429 developed. I go back to a time when we didn't 00:34:31.429 --> 00:34:34.070 have a farm program. We weren't able to tell 00:34:34.070 --> 00:34:37.429 consumers with, you know, with facts and figures, 00:34:37.530 --> 00:34:40.530 we weren't able to tell consumers the great story 00:34:40.530 --> 00:34:45.510 of quality, high -level quality animal care in 00:34:45.510 --> 00:34:48.170 this industry. We could talk about it, and people 00:34:48.170 --> 00:34:50.190 could see the old, you know, the red barn and 00:34:50.190 --> 00:34:53.059 the silo. And they would hope that, you know, 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:55.639 Farmer Jones was doing a great job taking care 00:34:55.639 --> 00:35:00.000 of their animals. But we didn't have a way to 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.380 quantify that and to tell that story to consumers. 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.059 The development of the farm program came about 00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:12.639 at a time when we were seeing more, you know, 00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.239 animal rights activist engagement, more attacks 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.519 on animal agriculture. We knew, all of us in 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:26.619 dairy knew, the level of care on our farms. We 00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:29.380 didn't have an ability to communicate that. What 00:35:29.380 --> 00:35:33.099 I wish that producers better understood, and 00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:35.300 frankly I think we're over that hump now, I think 00:35:35.300 --> 00:35:39.559 producers really do get this, is the farm program 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:44.280 helps us tell a very, very important story to 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.900 consumers on the quality of animal care. All 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:53.800 of those issues that are reviewed in an animal 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.500 care evaluation that farmers do, the on -farm 00:35:56.500 --> 00:35:59.340 evaluation done by their evaluator, all that 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.699 information is aggregated at the co -op level, 00:36:02.860 --> 00:36:05.380 at the processor level, and then at the national 00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:09.659 level. And it tells a great story of the quality 00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:13.659 of care. Virtually all of the indices in that 00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:17.820 farm program evaluation, and we look at each 00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:21.400 one of them and then look at the data that results 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:25.679 when we do all those evaluations, we are north 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:31.199 of 90 % adherence, as high as 98%, 99 % adherence 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.199 across the country with those standards. That 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:37.139 is a wonderful story to tell consumers, and it's 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:41.019 helped push back against activists who attack 00:36:41.019 --> 00:36:45.300 the industry and suggest that animals are not 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:47.510 treated well. We're the facts and figures to 00:36:47.510 --> 00:36:50.809 show the quality of care. But I think equally 00:36:50.809 --> 00:36:54.869 important is the continuous improvement that 00:36:54.869 --> 00:37:00.289 it helps for individual producers. It benchmarks. 00:37:00.690 --> 00:37:03.150 You're able to benchmark how you're doing on 00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:08.989 your operation versus others in your co -op or 00:37:08.989 --> 00:37:13.710 proprietary processors, how you're doing in your 00:37:13.710 --> 00:37:16.690 region. how you compare nationally, how you compare 00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:21.269 by farm size. It's an incredible tool for producers 00:37:21.269 --> 00:37:24.329 to use to improve their operations. And going 00:37:24.329 --> 00:37:27.869 beyond animal care, we've added very important 00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:34.250 features to the program in sustainability and 00:37:34.250 --> 00:37:37.750 in workforce development, where we're actually 00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:42.289 helping people benchmark what are the best. human 00:37:42.289 --> 00:37:45.969 resource practices on the farm. And that enables 00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:49.550 producers to step up their game to see what others 00:37:49.550 --> 00:37:52.110 are doing and improve. So at its heart and soul, 00:37:52.409 --> 00:37:54.510 the farm program is about continuous improvement. 00:37:55.030 --> 00:37:57.489 And when you think about what we're doing in 00:37:57.489 --> 00:38:00.789 this industry, and frankly, any industry, is 00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:03.150 trying to improve. And this is a great way to 00:38:03.150 --> 00:38:05.329 help us on that journey of continuous improvement. 00:38:05.829 --> 00:38:09.309 So beyond pricing and programs, What do you see 00:38:09.309 --> 00:38:11.949 as the biggest challenges facing the dairy industry 00:38:11.949 --> 00:38:15.570 going forward? What do we need to change on the 00:38:15.570 --> 00:38:18.210 farm level, on the policy level, at the government? 00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:20.730 What do we need to do to make sure that the industry 00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:25.650 stays strong? Well, there's any number of issues 00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:28.489 that we could talk about here. Let me focus on 00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:31.829 two of them because I think they're critically 00:38:31.829 --> 00:38:34.789 important. They've been around with us for a 00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:37.329 while, and we've got to get them right, and we're 00:38:37.329 --> 00:38:41.800 not there yet. Perhaps the biggest issue that 00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:46.059 I dealt with in terms of the industry's future 00:38:46.059 --> 00:38:49.960 while I was at National Milk was this issue of 00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:56.780 farm labor. And we're not close, unfortunately, 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:59.900 to getting that issue resolved. I can't tell 00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:02.420 you the number of producers I've talked to who 00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:05.199 this is. This is an existential issue. This is 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.719 the issue that keeps them up at night. And in 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:12.000 many ways, today it's getting worse rather than 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.800 getting better. Let's start with some facts. 00:39:15.099 --> 00:39:18.260 We know that the majority of the milk produced 00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:21.320 in the U .S., the vast majority of milk produced 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:24.059 in the U .S., comes from farms with immigrant 00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:28.159 labor. And we also know that a large percentage 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:31.340 of that immigrant workforce is undocumented. 00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:37.949 And we can't run our farms. without that workforce. 00:39:38.289 --> 00:39:42.070 It just can't do it. So without those workers 00:39:42.070 --> 00:39:46.750 and without a solution to it, we're in a world 00:39:46.750 --> 00:39:49.489 of hurt at the farm level, and we're going to 00:39:49.489 --> 00:39:51.010 be in a world of hurt at the consumer level because 00:39:51.010 --> 00:39:53.269 we're not going to have the milk and the dairy 00:39:53.269 --> 00:39:56.650 products that people want to consume. We've got 00:39:56.650 --> 00:39:59.210 to get this right, and it's just taking forever. 00:39:59.309 --> 00:40:03.849 We've spent so much time trying to get access 00:40:03.849 --> 00:40:11.599 to a legal workforce. In the face of a national 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:17.500 situation where these workers are demonized and 00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:24.380 now we're seeing raids on some farms going after 00:40:24.380 --> 00:40:28.380 people, there's no question that we need a strong 00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:32.280 immigration policy and strong border protection 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.539 in this country. There's no question that there 00:40:34.539 --> 00:40:40.199 is an issue. But we were, I think in my view, 00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:43.500 kind of in the ditches on both sides on this 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.579 issue. And it has defied solution, defied people 00:40:47.579 --> 00:40:50.480 trying to, you know, work together to get a consensus 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:55.320 because the issue works politically for some 00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.440 of the politicians on both sides. And, you know, 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.420 until we get this right, agriculture, not just 00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:05.039 dairy, but agriculture is suffering from this. 00:41:05.670 --> 00:41:08.530 I would say DLA is probably suffering more than 00:41:08.530 --> 00:41:12.710 any because we don't have access to even a federal 00:41:12.710 --> 00:41:16.489 program that provides a legal immigrant workforce. 00:41:16.909 --> 00:41:20.150 That H -2A program that does help much of agriculture 00:41:20.150 --> 00:41:23.730 only, and producers know this well, I'm not saying 00:41:23.730 --> 00:41:27.610 anybody doesn't know, H -2A only works for operations 00:41:27.610 --> 00:41:31.210 that need seasonal and temporary workers. Our 00:41:31.210 --> 00:41:33.250 workers are anything but that. They're full -time 00:41:33.250 --> 00:41:37.699 workers, seven days a week. two milkings or three 00:41:37.699 --> 00:41:41.820 milkings a day. And we've turned human workers 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:46.179 because that's the only folks who will work these 00:41:46.179 --> 00:41:50.320 jobs. They're tough jobs. They pay well. We have 00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:52.199 workers on our farms that have been there for 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.480 five, ten, fifteen, in some cases twenty years 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.639 or more. They're great workers. We don't want 00:41:57.639 --> 00:41:59.900 to lose them. We've got to get this policy right 00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:02.519 and unfortunately I don't, you know, as long 00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.130 as it's as political as it is. and politicians 00:42:05.130 --> 00:42:10.750 stand to benefit on it, I fear that it's not 00:42:10.750 --> 00:42:13.110 going to get resolved. That number one has to 00:42:13.110 --> 00:42:15.789 get fixed. The other major issue that I would 00:42:15.789 --> 00:42:22.469 suggest is holding us back is trade policy. We're 00:42:22.469 --> 00:42:24.570 an incredibly productive industry. You know, 00:42:24.570 --> 00:42:28.969 225, 230 billion pounds of milk a year that we 00:42:28.969 --> 00:42:32.070 produce. We don't consume that much in the U 00:42:32.070 --> 00:42:35.969 .S. We have a great domestic market here. It 00:42:35.969 --> 00:42:40.150 is 85 % of the amount of milk that we produce. 00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:47.230 But that 15 % 15 to 20 % can be up as much as 00:42:47.230 --> 00:42:50.530 that that is in excess of domestic market needs. 00:42:50.809 --> 00:42:53.389 If we don't have a home for that, that's depressing 00:42:53.389 --> 00:42:55.369 market prices. If we don't have markets for that 00:42:55.369 --> 00:42:57.670 product, that means you've got surpluses in the 00:42:57.670 --> 00:42:59.630 domestic market and that's forcing prices down. 00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:03.559 On the international level, We've suffered from 00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:06.699 barriers that many countries have erected to 00:43:06.699 --> 00:43:10.300 keep our product out of their markets. Whether 00:43:10.300 --> 00:43:13.559 those are tariff barriers or non -tariff trade 00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:18.440 barriers, they're very effective at keeping us 00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:22.820 from achieving the level of export to markets 00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:26.199 that we could. I think long -term, the future 00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.420 for U .S. dairy is great. because we're going 00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:31.860 to get access to those markets. The world needs 00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:35.860 protein. Dairy is the best protein you can consume. 00:43:36.739 --> 00:43:40.119 So I think long -term, we're going to be in great 00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.079 shape as an industry. But this next 5, 10 years, 00:43:44.260 --> 00:43:47.460 if we don't see trade agreements that address 00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:51.440 this problem and provide greater access around 00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:56.119 the world, and we're in an era where it's mostly 00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.829 bilateral agreements. as opposed to multilateral 00:43:59.829 --> 00:44:02.050 negotiations at the World Trade Organization. 00:44:02.690 --> 00:44:08.269 WTO is basically moribund, if not dead, and it's 00:44:08.269 --> 00:44:13.269 mostly bilateral negotiations. That's a challenge, 00:44:13.449 --> 00:44:15.969 and we've been working very hard as an industry 00:44:15.969 --> 00:44:19.489 to increase market access between National Milk 00:44:19.489 --> 00:44:22.130 and the U .S. Dairy Export Council. Tremendous 00:44:22.130 --> 00:44:26.449 efforts to get into those markets, but we have 00:44:26.449 --> 00:44:29.159 to have trade negotiators and trade agreements 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.639 that break down these barriers and get us into 00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:35.239 those markets. And here, too, there's a lot of 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:42.880 talk and general statements about expanding market 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:48.280 access, but we haven't seen the kind of detailed 00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:52.400 negotiations that's necessary to increase that 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.769 market access. Now, I could say a lot more. That's 00:44:55.769 --> 00:44:58.869 probably more than people want to hear. But I 00:44:58.869 --> 00:45:03.230 would say that farm labor and trade policy are 00:45:03.230 --> 00:45:05.469 the two biggest issues that we have to get right 00:45:05.469 --> 00:45:07.469 if we're going to achieve the kind of success 00:45:07.469 --> 00:45:16.989 that this industry is capable of. Okay. Sorry, 00:45:17.030 --> 00:45:18.869 you hear a pause there just because it's me doing 00:45:18.869 --> 00:45:21.309 a backup because I noticed my one recording. 00:45:21.469 --> 00:45:26.199 Okay. Yep, that's great. It's just me making 00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:28.519 a note and then I just like I'm just making a 00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:30.539 note and then I paused. So we'll continue on. 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.139 So you talk about these challenges that we face 00:45:35.139 --> 00:45:38.820 and now you're handing off the reins to Greg 00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:42.440 and the team. What's the one lesson or one piece 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.760 of advice you would share with them about stepping 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:49.440 into the big dairy policy role and what it actually 00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:51.500 takes and why it matters and what they need to 00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:55.730 do? Well, the great thing about Greg is he doesn't 00:45:55.730 --> 00:46:00.110 need advice from me on these challenges and issues. 00:46:00.210 --> 00:46:05.809 He's a veteran ag policy hand. He's got as much 00:46:05.809 --> 00:46:09.550 experience as I do in Washington. He's got broader 00:46:09.550 --> 00:46:15.030 experience in other commodities. He worked for 00:46:15.030 --> 00:46:18.170 the National Calvin Peep Association. He worked 00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:22.000 on the commodity markets. So he's got great experience, 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:25.199 and equally important, he has a great team behind 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:29.880 him. I will say that I was blessed when I came 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:35.039 to National Milk to have a great staff. I knew 00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.139 the folks on staff because I had been working 00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:39.440 with the organization prior to becoming president 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.699 and CEO. I'd been a consultant to National Milk. 00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:44.739 So these are people I knew what I was getting 00:46:44.739 --> 00:46:46.519 into, and it's one of the reasons the job was 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:49.449 appealing to me. I knew I had a great team. I 00:46:49.449 --> 00:46:53.489 was able to add to that team over time. By the 00:46:53.489 --> 00:46:58.510 time I left, the board heard from me many times, 00:46:58.570 --> 00:47:03.449 I would say, that without equivocation, I felt 00:47:03.449 --> 00:47:06.630 we had the best trade association agriculture 00:47:06.630 --> 00:47:10.550 team in Washington, bar none. A team of experts 00:47:10.550 --> 00:47:13.909 who not only knew their issues well, but were 00:47:13.909 --> 00:47:20.280 dedicated to member service, smart, hardworking 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.940 people, passionate about this industry, just 00:47:22.940 --> 00:47:27.940 like our members are. And that team continues 00:47:27.940 --> 00:47:31.639 to just hit the ball out of the park. So I felt 00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:36.960 very good when I stepped down that the organization 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.699 was in great shape with the staff, and I think 00:47:39.699 --> 00:47:43.579 the board chose a great successor in Greg, and 00:47:43.579 --> 00:47:47.079 I've been able to watch over the last year plus 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:50.360 now. watch Greg and the team, and they're doing 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:53.260 an outstanding job. They don't need advice from 00:47:53.260 --> 00:47:58.659 me. True. But you're also now being recognized 00:47:58.659 --> 00:48:01.719 as the World Dairy Expo Industry Person of the 00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:04.480 Year. What does that mean to you? I think it's 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.579 kind of a full circle moment. You'll be coming 00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:10.440 back to Madison. What does this mean to you looking 00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.260 back at your career but also looking forward? 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.119 Well, you know, this is just an incredible honor. 00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:20.949 to be recognized by the World Dairy Expo board 00:48:20.949 --> 00:48:23.190 and leadership. I mean, we're talking about the 00:48:23.190 --> 00:48:25.909 cream of the industry here. When I look at the 00:48:25.909 --> 00:48:29.190 list of people who have received this award, 00:48:29.550 --> 00:48:35.969 it's like the Hall of Fame in dairy. And so I'm 00:48:35.969 --> 00:48:39.190 just incredibly honored. And, you know, I don't 00:48:39.190 --> 00:48:42.809 think I fully deserve this award. I will say 00:48:42.809 --> 00:48:47.059 that, you know, for me, What I think about is 00:48:47.059 --> 00:48:50.380 all the people that I've worked with, and in 00:48:50.380 --> 00:48:53.800 whatever brief remarks I get a chance to make 00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:59.940 at Dairy Expo, that's kind of my focus. I view 00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:05.579 this as a shared award. It goes back to Mr. Hoden, 00:49:05.659 --> 00:49:07.639 my seventh grade social studies teacher, has 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.960 a hand in this award, all the way through the 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:13.619 team, my staff that I work with at National Milk, 00:49:13.820 --> 00:49:17.860 the board. officers, executive committee, Randy 00:49:17.860 --> 00:49:23.639 Mooney. This is a collective award that everybody 00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:27.380 helped me on this journey. Everybody's had a 00:49:27.380 --> 00:49:34.360 part of it that I've worked with. For me, that's 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:38.820 the biggest honor. When I think of all the experiences 00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:42.059 I've had, the people I've worked with, this recognition 00:49:42.059 --> 00:49:48.039 for me is Well done by a lot of people, and I 00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:51.380 feel very humble. I feel very blessed to have 00:49:51.380 --> 00:49:53.920 had the career I've had, and to get this kind 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:57.300 of recognition is just very humbling. It really 00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:03.460 is. And what does the next act, what keeps you 00:50:03.460 --> 00:50:06.679 busy now, or what are your ambitions or plans 00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:09.659 going forward? I will say I'm finding a little 00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:12.860 bit more time to enjoy life than I was able to 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:16.599 during my working years. You know, one of the 00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:19.920 things that I did find at National Milk, when 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.420 you work for people who are working seven days 00:50:22.420 --> 00:50:27.139 a week and, you know, from sunup to past sundown, 00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:31.000 you end up doing a similar extent to yourself. 00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:36.139 And so there are a lot of things that... passed 00:50:36.139 --> 00:50:39.059 me by that I didn't get a chance to enjoy as 00:50:39.059 --> 00:50:42.639 much. So I'm really trying to spend my time on 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:46.119 that. I am trying to give back. I'm trying to 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:49.159 do some mentoring of people. Again, I've talked 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:51.960 about how important that has been in my life. 00:50:52.380 --> 00:50:54.519 I think I owe that to other people to do so. 00:50:55.130 --> 00:50:57.809 Do a little bit of that. But I'm also, you know, 00:50:57.849 --> 00:51:00.650 taking the time to do some travel, both domestically 00:51:00.650 --> 00:51:03.190 and a little bit, you know, nationally. It's 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:05.949 a big world. There's a lot to see and do out 00:51:05.949 --> 00:51:10.010 there. I am trying to, you know, spend more time 00:51:10.010 --> 00:51:15.050 with my adult children. Now they have less time 00:51:15.050 --> 00:51:17.469 than they had when they were younger. But still, 00:51:17.570 --> 00:51:21.329 I'm very close to them. And it's nice to be able 00:51:21.329 --> 00:51:25.340 to spend time with them and my siblings. So for 00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:29.360 me, my professional career took a lot of my focus, 00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:31.679 and now I'm trying to spend a little more time 00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:38.860 on family, on friends, and on health. I've always 00:51:38.860 --> 00:51:40.780 tried to stay in health. I was a runner for many 00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:46.000 years. I've moved toward biking more now. My 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.659 knees and hips hurt when I run. They don't hurt 00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:51.559 when I'm biking, so I'm no dummy. I spend more 00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:55.000 time on the bike. But just working out, hiking, 00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.000 doing a little fishing, bird watching, some of 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.659 the things that I just enjoy. I'm really trying 00:52:02.659 --> 00:52:06.199 to, you know, you said this act of life. I look 00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:09.260 at it as act three in life. And I'm trying to 00:52:09.260 --> 00:52:14.320 spend act three vigorous, active, but also to 00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:18.179 keep learning and keep enjoying because that's 00:52:18.179 --> 00:52:23.050 what this period of life is for, I think. And 00:52:23.050 --> 00:52:26.110 if you had one final thought or something that 00:52:26.110 --> 00:52:28.150 you would want to leave our listeners thinking 00:52:28.150 --> 00:52:30.909 about the dairy industry, about the future of 00:52:30.909 --> 00:52:33.590 the dairy industry, and why they should be optimistic 00:52:33.590 --> 00:52:36.489 about it, what would you say to them? Well, I 00:52:36.489 --> 00:52:38.070 just think this is an incredible industry. I 00:52:38.070 --> 00:52:40.389 think the future is very, very bright. You know, 00:52:40.409 --> 00:52:46.769 it starts with the quality of the animals and 00:52:46.769 --> 00:52:50.590 the people in this industry. And I think that 00:52:50.590 --> 00:52:54.889 follows through. virtually every aspect of this 00:52:54.889 --> 00:52:58.269 industry. And I will say that one of the things, 00:52:58.389 --> 00:53:01.369 I've had a chance over the course of my 45 -year 00:53:01.369 --> 00:53:04.929 career to work. I wasn't full -time in dairy 00:53:04.929 --> 00:53:09.250 all the time. I've had a couple of stints where 00:53:09.250 --> 00:53:13.449 I did consulting for other businesses as well. 00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:17.889 I've worked with lots of people, lots of industries, 00:53:18.269 --> 00:53:22.369 Fortune 200 companies. But I always kept coming 00:53:22.369 --> 00:53:25.869 back to dairy. And, you know, I couldn't put 00:53:25.869 --> 00:53:28.630 my finger on it early on, but I have realized, 00:53:28.829 --> 00:53:30.809 I did realize over time it's because of the people. 00:53:31.070 --> 00:53:32.829 There are incredible people in this industry. 00:53:32.949 --> 00:53:36.469 I don't know exactly what it is about this industry 00:53:36.469 --> 00:53:41.489 that attracts such high -level people. I think 00:53:41.489 --> 00:53:43.829 perhaps part of it is that you're, you know, 00:53:43.829 --> 00:53:47.389 you're nurturing an animal. You're not raising 00:53:47.389 --> 00:53:50.030 an animal from, you know, from birth to slaughter. 00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:53.619 You're raising an animal for its productive life. 00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:57.960 And it may sound strange to people who are engaged 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.380 in dairy on a full -time basis, but I think that 00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:07.159 has something to do with breeding people in a 00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:09.460 certain way or instilling something in people 00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:12.639 in a certain way. So it's the people that make 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:14.780 this industry great, and I've never lost sight 00:54:14.780 --> 00:54:18.530 of that. When I think of the future, And I think 00:54:18.530 --> 00:54:20.530 of the quality of the product that we produce, 00:54:20.650 --> 00:54:25.909 the nutritional aspects. I just think the future 00:54:25.909 --> 00:54:29.550 for this industry is so bright. And as long as 00:54:29.550 --> 00:54:32.789 we've got people at National Milk, at U .S. Dairy 00:54:32.789 --> 00:54:35.289 Export Council, at the Dairy Checkoff Program, 00:54:35.530 --> 00:54:39.769 all working together to move us forward, I think 00:54:39.769 --> 00:54:43.090 we've got a very, very bright future. And I think 00:54:43.090 --> 00:54:45.610 so as well. And with that, I want to thank you 00:54:45.610 --> 00:54:48.050 for taking the time to share your story with 00:54:48.050 --> 00:54:51.469 us. It really means a lot to get to know. We 00:54:51.469 --> 00:54:53.849 see you winning the award at Expo, but to get 00:54:53.849 --> 00:54:57.090 to know the story behind it really was enjoyable 00:54:57.090 --> 00:55:00.349 for all of us. We also appreciate your candor 00:55:00.349 --> 00:55:03.250 and the fact that you've championed the industry 00:55:03.250 --> 00:55:06.690 so much for so many years, truly deserving of 00:55:06.690 --> 00:55:09.519 this year's award. So congratulations. Thank 00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:11.659 you so much, Andrew. It's been an honor and a 00:55:11.659 --> 00:55:14.679 privilege. It really has. That's it for today's 00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:17.900 episode of the Bullvine Podcast. Huge thanks 00:55:17.900 --> 00:55:20.739 to Jim Mulhern for sharing his story, perspective, 00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:24.119 and candor with our audience. If you found these 00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:27.099 insights valuable, make sure to subscribe and 00:55:27.099 --> 00:55:29.199 share the show with your fellow producers and 00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:31.639 friends in the dairy community. For more ground 00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:34.199 -level stories, policy updates, and practical 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.559 advice, check out thebullvine .com. and follow 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:40.960 us on your favorite podcast platform. Until next 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.559 time, keep your boots muddy, your barns full, 00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:46.260 and your spirits high. Thanks for listening.