WEBVTT 00:00:10.469 --> 00:00:13.250 Welcome to the Bullvine Podcast, where we bring 00:00:13.250 --> 00:00:15.410 you the stories behind dairy's most influential 00:00:15.410 --> 00:00:18.890 figures. Today, we're celebrating a true pioneer 00:00:18.890 --> 00:00:22.050 who transformed how we evaluate and select dairy 00:00:22.050 --> 00:00:25.850 cattle. 80 years ago today, a future visionary 00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:28.570 was born who would help Canadian genetics capture 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:33.079 of global Holstein semen sales, all while starting 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.159 from a modest farm with just 22 cows. Murray 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:38.340 Hunt's creation of the dollar difference formula 00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:41.420 fundamentally shifted breeding decisions from 00:00:41.420 --> 00:00:43.960 show ring appearance to economic efficiency. 00:00:44.539 --> 00:00:47.539 In this episode, we'll explore how one man's 00:00:47.539 --> 00:00:50.259 scientific approach and practical farm wisdom 00:00:50.259 --> 00:00:53.979 revolutionized dairy breeding worldwide. From 00:00:53.979 --> 00:00:56.700 his early days at Huntsdale Farm to his groundbreaking 00:00:56.700 --> 00:01:00.109 work at Holstein Canada, This is the Murray Hunt 00:01:00.109 --> 00:01:02.810 story, a birthday tribute to a living legend 00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:05.469 whose influence touches every modern dairy operation. 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:08.930 Let's dive in. Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today 00:01:08.930 --> 00:01:11.569 we're cracking open the story behind some really 00:01:11.569 --> 00:01:15.409 monumental shifts in Canadian dairy genetics. 00:01:15.590 --> 00:01:19.329 And it's all in honor of Murray Hunt's 80th birthday, 00:01:19.549 --> 00:01:23.790 which is today, April 9th. 2025. So happy birthday 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:26.129 to him. Yeah, quite a milestone. And what's really 00:01:26.129 --> 00:01:28.370 cool is our source material today. Right. It 00:01:28.370 --> 00:01:30.109 comes straight from his son. So we're getting 00:01:30.109 --> 00:01:33.530 this really unique personal perspective on his 00:01:33.530 --> 00:01:35.989 father's work. It makes it much more than just 00:01:35.989 --> 00:01:38.590 dates and facts, doesn't it? It's like getting 00:01:38.590 --> 00:01:41.670 the inside track on how things really unfolded. 00:01:41.709 --> 00:01:44.849 Totally. Because Murray Hunt, well, he essentially 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:48.129 injected a huge dose of science right into how 00:01:48.129 --> 00:01:50.390 dairy farmers pick their cows, how they develop 00:01:50.390 --> 00:01:53.010 their herds. It's almost strange to think about 00:01:53.010 --> 00:01:55.969 a time before data was king, but he was like 00:01:55.969 --> 00:01:58.569 a major player in making that switch happen. 00:01:58.750 --> 00:02:01.109 And we've learned there were these two almost 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:03.170 seismic events he was right in the middle of. 00:02:03.230 --> 00:02:05.189 Yes, the dollar difference formula. That's one. 00:02:05.310 --> 00:02:08.650 And the other was a complete top to bottom redesign 00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:11.349 of the classification systems. His son called 00:02:11.349 --> 00:02:13.370 them watershed moments. And I think that's spot 00:02:13.370 --> 00:02:16.259 on. Not just little tweaks. These were like fundamental 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:19.240 changes. Like going from, I don't know, a map 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:23.020 and compass to GPS overnight. Exactly. Game changers. 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:24.879 But, you know, it wasn't just about the formulas 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.539 and the systems, was it? No, not at all. He was 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:30.539 also key in building bridges, connecting the 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:32.740 research folks, the academics with the farmers 00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:35.840 out in the barn all across Canada. And that kind 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.039 of collaboration, that link between the lab and 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:40.840 the field. That's got a legacy that just keeps 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:42.780 going. It's where the real progress happens. 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.580 You need that translation, right? Brilliant ideas 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:48.419 are one thing, but making them work practically, 00:02:48.659 --> 00:02:52.219 that's another skill entirely. And that seems 00:02:52.219 --> 00:02:54.500 to have been one of his real strengths. For sure. 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:58.000 So for everyone listening in, maybe you're a 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.219 dairy veteran who remembers these changes happening, 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.439 or maybe you're newer to the industry. And curious 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.539 how we got here understanding these shifts is. 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:07.599 Well, it's pretty crucial. It definitely helps 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:09.800 make sense of today's industry and maybe even 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:11.719 gives us clues about what's coming next. Okay, 00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:14.000 so let's hit rewind. Back to the very beginning. 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:17.219 Huntsdale Farm. Right. And the starting point 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:22.500 is, well, quite something. April 1st, 1960. Murray's 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:25.219 grandparents, Sterling and Irene, take over. 00:03:25.419 --> 00:03:28.099 And it wasn't exactly a thriving dairy operation. 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:31.849 Not at all. A struggling 25 -acre market garden, 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:34.430 actually, with just, what, two or three Ayrshire 00:03:34.430 --> 00:03:36.629 cows? Yeah, focused mainly on cream production, 00:03:36.909 --> 00:03:39.569 shipping only about 450 pounds of milk a day. 00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:43.500 And the facilities were... Pretty dated. Paints 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:45.479 a picture, doesn't it? A completely different 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:48.219 era of farming. And their drive initially wasn't 00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:50.860 about building some massive herd. It was simpler. 00:03:50.979 --> 00:03:53.340 Putting their kids through school. Exactly. His 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.419 son mentioned Grandpa Sterling didn't have a 00:03:55.419 --> 00:03:57.879 ton of prospects at the local co -op feed mill. 00:03:57.979 --> 00:04:01.460 So taking on this farm was a, well. A big leap 00:04:01.460 --> 00:04:03.759 of faith. It kind of shows how innovation sometimes 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:06.840 starts from necessity, not grand ambition, just 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:08.900 wanting a better future. And boy, did they transform 00:04:08.900 --> 00:04:10.919 things quickly in those early 60s. Yeah, the 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:13.300 timeline is impressive. Barn renovation in 61, 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.019 new equipment, better fertilization. They weren't 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:18.620 messing around. Sounds like they went all in 00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:21.899 on modernizing. And the family skills seemed 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:24.540 to complement each other. Sterling knew his crops 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:27.519 and nutrition. Irene handled milking, gardening, 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.540 and was apparently the community connector. It 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:33.339 really highlights how farming even then was never 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:35.639 just one thing. It took a team effort. Definitely. 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:40.060 And by 1965, just five years later, huge change. 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:44.240 30 cows cranking out 2 ,000 pounds of milk daily, 00:04:44.379 --> 00:04:47.079 plus selling breeding stock to Canada and the 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:49.980 U .S. That's serious progress. And 65 was also 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:52.079 key because the Ontario Milk Marketing Board 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.439 started up. Yeah. That allowed them to buy quota, 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.019 which would have, you know, stabilized things 00:04:56.019 --> 00:04:59.009 financially. And get this, the payoff. By 1967, 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:01.709 they owned the farm free and clear. Incredible. 00:05:01.730 --> 00:05:04.930 Just through productivity and sheer efficiency. 00:05:05.470 --> 00:05:07.709 Speaks volumes about their management. Sets the 00:05:07.709 --> 00:05:09.629 stage nicely for where young Murray comes in. 00:05:09.750 --> 00:05:11.670 Because he wasn't just doing chores. Even back 00:05:11.670 --> 00:05:14.670 in 1960, as a kid, he was already involved in 00:05:14.670 --> 00:05:16.930 the serious stuff. Animal recording, the breeding 00:05:16.930 --> 00:05:19.110 programs. Right. Laying the groundwork for his 00:05:19.110 --> 00:05:20.870 whole career, basically. And he was quick to 00:05:20.870 --> 00:05:23.029 adopt new things. Record of performance, the 00:05:23.029 --> 00:05:26.870 ROP system in 1962. Artificial insemination the 00:05:26.870 --> 00:05:30.149 same year. type classification in 63. These were 00:05:30.149 --> 00:05:32.509 big deals back then. You can just picture him, 00:05:32.569 --> 00:05:35.089 this young guy, meticulously tracking everything 00:05:35.089 --> 00:05:37.610 in the barn, notebook in hand. Yeah, planting 00:05:37.610 --> 00:05:40.129 the seeds for a data -driven approach, even if 00:05:40.129 --> 00:05:42.069 he didn't fully realize it then. And he was busy 00:05:42.069 --> 00:05:44.670 outside the barn, too. All sorts of 4 -H dairy, 00:05:45.009 --> 00:05:48.750 potatoes, tractors, public speaking, you name 00:05:48.750 --> 00:05:50.990 it. A well -rounded kid. Plus sports and clubs 00:05:50.990 --> 00:05:53.629 at school. But then there was that shoulder injury. 00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:57.319 Ah, the farm accident in 61. A recurring dislocation 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:01.279 sounds painful and probably limiting for farm 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:03.379 work. Definitely. And that injury turned out 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:06.399 to be, well, a bit of a turning point. His mother, 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.040 Irene, suggested college because of the shoulder, 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:11.160 right? Yeah. It makes you wonder, doesn't it? 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:13.879 If that hadn't happened, would things have gone 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:16.420 differently? One of those sliding doors moments. 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:18.759 It really shows how setbacks can sometimes redirect 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:22.680 you onto an equally impactful path, maybe even 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:25.839 more so. So off he went. September 65, University 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.920 of Gulf, Ontario Agricultural College. Thinking 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.319 veterinary medicine at first. But that shifted. 00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:34.680 By 67, he was into a Bachelor of Science in Ag, 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:38.100 then onto a Master's. Putting the, quote, Huntsdale 00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:41.079 dream on hold, at least for a while. And specializing 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.079 in animal science, genetics. Yeah. And importantly, 00:06:44.259 --> 00:06:47.709 computer applications. That mix was key. Definitely. 00:06:47.889 --> 00:06:50.790 And university wasn't just about academics. August 00:06:50.790 --> 00:06:54.750 67, he met Karen. Ah, yes. They married in 69. 00:06:55.050 --> 00:06:57.810 And he considers that his most significant legacy. 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:00.529 It's great, isn't it? He said, K &M's legacy 00:07:00.529 --> 00:07:03.209 will be the great things that our families achieve. 00:07:03.810 --> 00:07:06.069 Puts all the career stuff in perspective. It 00:07:06.069 --> 00:07:08.670 absolutely does. A reminder that life's bigger 00:07:08.670 --> 00:07:10.680 than just work. even for someone who changed 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:13.040 an industry. And he had mentors too, right? People 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:15.959 who helped guide him early on. Yes, the Sagers, 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:19.259 Mo Freeman, Roger Diamond, Doug Wingrove, and 00:07:19.259 --> 00:07:22.259 later names like George Clemens, Bob Lang, Harley 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:23.980 Nicholson. Sounds like he soaked up knowledge 00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:26.259 wherever he could find it. Which is often a hallmark 00:07:26.259 --> 00:07:28.339 of people who achieve great things, that constant 00:07:28.339 --> 00:07:31.420 learning. Okay, fast forward a bit. 1970, the 00:07:31.420 --> 00:07:34.079 master's thesis. This is where things really 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.860 start to have industry -wide whipples. His son 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:39.259 describes it as basically the foundation for 00:07:39.259 --> 00:07:42.339 Canadian breeding strategies for decades. That's 00:07:42.339 --> 00:07:45.480 a huge statement. No kidding. And he used computer 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.120 simulation, which was seriously cutting edge 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:51.879 stuff back then, to make some pretty, well, radical 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:54.519 recommendations. Like what? Like sampling four 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:56.620 times as many young sires as they were doing 00:07:56.620 --> 00:07:59.519 and putting a much bigger emphasis on production 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.379 traits. So moving away from just the visual, 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.480 the confirmation towards what the animals could 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:06.579 actually do makes sense economically. Totally. 00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:08.959 And then there was the all -young bull stud concept. 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:11.279 I'll explain that one. Okay. So the idea was 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.439 to collect and store semen from a whole bunch 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.800 of young, unproven bulls, then wait and see which 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.699 ones turned out to be genetically elite based 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:21.180 on their daughter's performance. Ah, I see. So 00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:22.879 you could then use that stored semen from the 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:25.300 proven top guys for future generations. Exactly. 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:28.699 And his son points out how eerily similar that 00:08:28.699 --> 00:08:31.399 is to how genomic selection works today. The 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:34.120 guy was thinking decades ahead. Way ahead of 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.799 the curve. And you can understand his pride that 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:39.159 Canadian AI organizations actually ran with that 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.519 plan. Yeah, achieving 25 % of global Holstein 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:44.899 semen sales with less than 2 % of the world's 00:08:44.899 --> 00:08:48.080 cows. That's punching way above your weight. 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.860 Testament to the strategal. Absolutely. And sort 00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:53.159 of spinning out of that master's work came something 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.820 else huge. The dollar difference formula. Right. 00:08:55.899 --> 00:08:58.559 This formula was brilliant in its simplicity, 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.779 really. Calculate the value, the revenue a bull's 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.000 daughters are likely to generate, then subtract 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.559 the costs associated with that production. Giving 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:08.440 you a bottom line dollar figure for choosing 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.779 one bull over another is basically a total merit 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:13.879 index. But, you know, decades before TMIs became 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:18.090 standard. The TMI before TMI. Love that. It shifted 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:20.210 the focus squarely onto profitability. And the 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:22.289 OMAFRA folks, the government people, they got 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:24.389 it. They supported it strongly. But not everyone 00:09:24.389 --> 00:09:27.029 was on board initially. No, the breed associations. 00:09:27.230 --> 00:09:29.330 Well, they were still very much focused on confirmation, 00:09:29.629 --> 00:09:31.669 how the cows looked, the type. There was definitely 00:09:31.669 --> 00:09:34.129 some resistance there. That classic tension between 00:09:34.129 --> 00:09:38.610 tradition and data -driven change happens everywhere. 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.600 So after his master's, his first job was with 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.399 Omafra's Dairy Herd Improvement Program, the 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.679 DHI, managed a big team. And he mentioned being 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.399 proud of getting DHI records officially accepted 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.759 by Holstein Canada. Yeah, another step towards 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.059 integrating data, making it central to decision 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:57.669 making. Breaking down silos. That's crucial. 00:09:57.750 --> 00:10:01.669 You need reliable standardized data for any meaningful 00:10:01.669 --> 00:10:05.330 genetic evaluation. Then June 73, he moves over 00:10:05.330 --> 00:10:07.549 to Holstein Canada itself. And this is where 00:10:07.549 --> 00:10:10.570 he really encounters the prevailing mindset. 00:10:10.789 --> 00:10:13.789 Which is still very phenotype driven. Based on 00:10:13.789 --> 00:10:16.070 looks. Almost entirely, according to his son. 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:18.490 They were largely ignoring the genetic evaluation 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:21.049 methods that were emerging, including the milk 00:10:21.049 --> 00:10:23.690 and fat bull proofs coming from Ag Canada. Wow, 00:10:23.750 --> 00:10:25.669 so the tools were there, but the main breed organization 00:10:25.669 --> 00:10:28.370 wasn't really using them. Pretty much. Purebred 00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:30.610 breeders were still putting more faith in show 00:10:30.610 --> 00:10:33.289 ring results than in, you know, scientific proofs. 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:35.070 Must have been frustrating for him. You can imagine. 00:10:35.289 --> 00:10:37.490 Bringing science to the table when the culture 00:10:37.490 --> 00:10:40.049 is still rooted in visual appraisal. That's a 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:42.450 tough sell. But he was determined. He started 00:10:42.450 --> 00:10:44.269 collaborating with researchers, particularly 00:10:44.269 --> 00:10:47.850 E .B. Burnside at Gulf, who were pioneers in 00:10:47.850 --> 00:10:51.750 BLUP methods. Ah, best linear unbiased prediction. 00:10:52.070 --> 00:10:54.049 That was the breakthrough technology, really. 00:10:54.210 --> 00:10:59.320 Explain BLUP. Okay, well, essentially, BLUP allowed 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.059 for much fairer genetic comparisons between animals. 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:04.360 It could mathematically separate the effects 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:06.500 of the environment, like feed, management, different 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:09.320 farms, from the animal's actual inherent genetic 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.919 merit. Much more accurate. Got it. So it levels 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:14.460 the playing field for genetic evaluation. Precisely. 00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:16.639 And Murray's biggest contribution at Holstein 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.620 Canada, arguably, was leading the charge to completely 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.799 overhaul their type classification system using 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:25.720 these BLUP methods. Right. Culminating in the 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.159 BLUP animal model in the early 80s. That wasn't 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.299 just a tweak. It was a revolution in how they 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:32.480 evaluated type. Absolutely fundamental. Moving 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.779 beyond just subjective scores based on appearance 00:11:34.779 --> 00:11:37.100 to incorporating objective genetic predictions. 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.279 And the results. The program took off. Eightfold 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.799 growth between 73 and 90. And it got adopted 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.200 internationally. That speaks volumes about its 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.919 success and value. Okay. Let's circle back specifically 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:51.139 to those two big innovations. The dollar difference 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:53.879 formula and the type classification overhaul. 00:11:54.269 --> 00:11:56.370 That dollar difference formula, even though it 00:11:56.370 --> 00:11:59.289 came from his masters, its impact was felt across 00:11:59.289 --> 00:12:01.710 North America. It really changed the conversation 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:04.190 around bull selection. Yeah, it challenged that 00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:06.690 generations old focus on show ring aesthetics. 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.450 You know, the traits that win ribbons versus 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:12.860 the traits that actually... pay the bills. His 00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:15.539 formula quantified that. It put a dollar value 00:12:15.539 --> 00:12:18.720 on the revenue minus cost equation for a sire's 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.940 daughters. The TMI before TMI. It made the economic 00:12:21.940 --> 00:12:24.559 case crystal clear. And while government folks 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.399 saw the practical value, you still had that pushback 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.159 from the breed associations clinging to high 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.440 type. That tension was real. And the type classification 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.720 rewrite, that was equally transformative. He 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:38.610 didn't just slap. BLUP onto the old system. He 00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:41.769 led a total rewrite using his statistical training. 00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:43.950 Moving it from purely phenotype, what you see, 00:12:43.990 --> 00:12:46.690 to incorporating genetic potential in a statistically 00:12:46.690 --> 00:12:49.750 robust way. That was the key. And a big part 00:12:49.750 --> 00:12:52.029 of making it work was ensuring the classifiers 00:12:52.029 --> 00:12:54.549 were all on the same page, right? Uniform standards. 00:12:55.029 --> 00:12:57.370 Absolutely critical. You need consistency in 00:12:57.370 --> 00:13:00.289 scoring for the genetic evaluations, the bullproofs, 00:13:00.289 --> 00:13:03.429 to be accurate and reliable. So he had to get 00:13:03.429 --> 00:13:05.549 the Holstein board behind it, get the field staff 00:13:05.549 --> 00:13:07.970 out there promoting it, explaining the value. 00:13:08.129 --> 00:13:10.330 It was a change management challenge as much 00:13:10.330 --> 00:13:12.110 as a technical one. Which is often the case. 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.450 Great ideas need great implementation and communication 00:13:15.450 --> 00:13:18.549 strategies to succeed. And again, that eight 00:13:18.549 --> 00:13:21.809 -fold growth shows they pulled it off. The industry 00:13:21.809 --> 00:13:24.149 eventually saw the benefits. It marked a really 00:13:24.149 --> 00:13:26.909 significant shift in thinking, accepting that 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:29.009 science and data could lead to better breeding 00:13:29.009 --> 00:13:32.049 decisions than just the eye test alone. So his 00:13:32.049 --> 00:13:34.250 career really spans this fundamental change in 00:13:34.250 --> 00:13:37.009 breeding philosophy for Holsteins. From prioritizing 00:13:37.009 --> 00:13:39.990 show ring looks. To focusing much more on farm 00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.730 profitability, efficiency, sustainability, things 00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:46.090 that matter day to day. A maturing of the industry, 00:13:46.210 --> 00:13:48.730 really. Recognizing that long -term success isn't 00:13:48.730 --> 00:13:51.409 just about ribbons. You saw that initial reluctance 00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:54.070 in the early 70s, though. Hallstein Canada focused 00:13:54.070 --> 00:13:57.429 on phenotype, breed associations wary of the 00:13:57.429 --> 00:14:00.210 dollar difference guide, breeders ignoring Ag 00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:03.610 Canada proofs. Inertia is powerful. Tradition, 00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:07.629 prestige tied to the show ring. It takes time 00:14:07.629 --> 00:14:10.230 and strong evidence to shift that kind of deeply 00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:13.250 ingrained focus. And he noted that even the BLUP 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:15.649 production indexes took longer to catch on with 00:14:15.649 --> 00:14:18.090 individual breeders compared to the AI organizations. 00:14:18.590 --> 00:14:21.070 That makes sense. AI units are purely focused 00:14:21.070 --> 00:14:24.009 on delivering genetic progress efficiently. They 00:14:24.009 --> 00:14:27.090 saw the power of BLUP immediately. Breeders might 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:29.929 have had other factors influencing their decisions. 00:14:30.169 --> 00:14:32.909 But the tide did turn. Better data, more accurate 00:14:32.909 --> 00:14:35.450 evaluations, plus a new generation coming back 00:14:35.450 --> 00:14:37.789 to the farms in the 70s may be more open to the 00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:40.350 science. That generational shift is often a catalyst 00:14:40.350 --> 00:14:42.269 for adopting new technologies and approaches. 00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:44.669 And you absolutely cannot talk about this transformation 00:14:44.669 --> 00:14:46.769 without talking about artificial insemination. 00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:49.570 No, AI was the engine driving a lot of this genetic 00:14:49.570 --> 00:14:52.690 game. As Murray himself said, 90 % of genetic 00:14:52.690 --> 00:14:55.129 gain in a population comes from the sires used. 00:14:55.389 --> 00:14:58.169 That just nails it. It highlights the immense 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.309 leverage AI provides. Use the best bulls widely, 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:03.850 and you accelerate progress dramatically. And 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:05.590 looking back at his master's recommendations, 00:15:06.049 --> 00:15:08.889 sample more young bulls, focus on production, 00:15:08.990 --> 00:15:11.830 and seeing Canada capture 25 % of the global 00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:14.549 semen market. It's powerful validation. It shows 00:15:14.549 --> 00:15:16.769 those early science -based strategies really 00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:19.529 worked, putting Canada on the map for dairy genetics. 00:15:20.029 --> 00:15:22.149 Okay, let's shift focus a bit from the what to 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:25.230 the how. His leadership style. His son stresses 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:27.850 he wasn't a limelight seeker, but very collaborative. 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:29.870 Which is often the most effective kind of leadership, 00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:32.289 isn't it? Building consensus, working together, 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:35.360 even without being the loudest voice. especially 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:37.700 in a diverse industry. And he managed to get 00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:40.399 competitors, the AI organizations, to cooperate 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.980 on research and national initiatives through 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:45.259 the Canadian Association of Animal Breeders. 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.720 That takes skill. It shows he can help people 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.019 see the bigger picture, that some things benefit 00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:52.220 the whole industry, even if you're competing 00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:54.500 day to day. His mentorship philosophy is interesting 00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:56.620 too, very forward -looking. Yeah, he believed 00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:59.200 a mentor's job isn't just to get mentees to repeat 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:02.019 the past, especially if the past no longer applies. 00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:04.580 It's about preparing them for the future. That 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.580 quote is great. A mentor is not an honest mentor 00:16:07.580 --> 00:16:10.159 if all they do is encourage mentees to repeat 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.679 the past that no longer applies. Powerful stuff. 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.220 Requires constant adaptation. Absolutely. Visioning 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:20.240 the future, he noted, can make people uncomfortable. 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:23.870 But it's necessary. And he had a process for 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:26.769 tackling big industry problems. Methodical, it 00:16:26.769 --> 00:16:29.389 sounds like. Define the issue clearly. Get all 00:16:29.389 --> 00:16:31.590 the willing players involved in an independent 00:16:31.590 --> 00:16:34.950 task force. Bring in visionaries. Circulate recommendations. 00:16:35.009 --> 00:16:37.929 Get feedback. Then bring everyone together for 00:16:37.929 --> 00:16:40.470 buy -in. It's a solid blueprint for driving change 00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:43.250 in a complex system. Inclusive and structured. 00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:46.179 And he put it into practice. leading the move 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:49.000 to privatize milk recording and genetic evaluations 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.700 when government support shifted. That took foresight 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:54.840 and initiative, ensuring those vital services 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.559 continued. Didn't just wait for things to fall 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:01.100 apart. Proactive leadership. And helping establish 00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:03.899 the Genetic Evaluation Board, supporting the 00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:05.900 Center for Genetic Improvement of Livestock. 00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:09.339 More building blocks for the future. Absolutely. 00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:11.920 Building the infrastructure needed for ongoing 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.680 progress. So now we look ahead. It's his 80th 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.460 birthday today, but he's clearly still thinking 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:20.039 about the future of dairy. And his son shares 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.920 that ultimately his greatest pride, his main 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.000 legacy, is his family. That quote again. K &M's 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.019 legacy will be the great things that our families 00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:32.160 achieve. Really grounding. Puts everything in 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.660 perspective. But he still has strong views on 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:36.759 the industry's direction. He's got some concerns. 00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:39.880 Like the overuse of TMIs. Exactly. Worries that 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:42.640 focusing too heavily on those total merit indexes, 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.160 TPI, LPI, net merit, pro way, might come at the 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.619 expense of other crucial traits. Like health, 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.480 mobility, fertility. The functional traits that 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:54.359 keep cows healthy and productive long term. Yeah, 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:56.759 he thinks that narrow focus might hinder developing 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.660 the kind of cows we'll actually need in, say, 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.920 2050. More resilient animals. It's a valid concern. 00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:05.039 Optimizing for one index can sometimes lead to 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.599 unintended consequences in other areas. We need 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:09.960 a balanced approach. He's a big advocate for 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.799 breeding programs that actively incorporate adaptability 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.839 and disease resistance. His son asked, and his 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.900 answer was emphatic. For sure, yes. Cannot happen 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:22.900 soon enough. That makes perfect sense. With climate 00:18:22.900 --> 00:18:25.920 change, evolving disease pressures, Cows that 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:28.359 can cope, that are naturally more robust, are 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:30.880 going to be increasingly valuable. He also throws 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.920 out a really interesting, maybe even provocative 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:35.599 idea about genetic diversity. Oh, what's his 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.059 take? He suggests maybe we're too focused on 00:18:38.059 --> 00:18:40.920 just inbreeding common ancestors. He thinks we 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:42.839 need more information on the specific genetic 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.000 combinations that actually cause problems. So 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.940 less about how related parents are, more about 00:18:48.940 --> 00:18:51.799 identifying specific problematic gene interactions 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.700 in the offspring. Kind of. His quote was, we 00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:56.759 need more information on the genetic makeups 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.220 that cause problems and not just on common ancestry. 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.180 The commonality of future offspring, not about 00:19:02.180 --> 00:19:04.859 common ancestors. It's a different way to frame 00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:07.799 the diversity issue. That's fascinating. It implies 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.160 a need for deeper genomic understanding beyond 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.599 just pedigree tracking. Very forward thinking. 00:19:12.819 --> 00:19:15.569 He also looks at the industry structure. acknowledges 00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:17.630 the reality of consolidation, especially in the 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:20.869 U .S., with huge herds. Yes, 75 % U .S. milk 00:19:20.869 --> 00:19:24.289 coming from herds of 1 ,000 -plus cows. That's 00:19:24.289 --> 00:19:26.769 a staggering statistic. And he believes smaller 00:19:26.769 --> 00:19:29.470 breeders, maybe those under 100 cows, need to 00:19:29.470 --> 00:19:32.690 find a novel, unique specialty to thrive in that 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.589 environment. Niche markets, specialized genetics, 00:19:35.890 --> 00:19:38.910 finding a way to differentiate beyond just scale 00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:41.490 makes sense. And he's pretty blunt about the 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:43.799 future drivers. Future milk production, like 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.180 it or not, depends on technology. Scale is a 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:49.019 must. Automation. Time waits for no one. A stark 00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:51.680 but likely realistic assessment. Efficiency and 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.240 tech adoption are key. Finally, he calls for 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.160 a more integrated approach to solving future 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:58.779 problems. Less working in silos. Criticizing 00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:01.279 too much individual silo work approached and 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.140 pushing for a wide -scoped approach. Bringing 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:06.400 together different disciplines. Yeah, recognizing 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.960 that the challenges are complex and need expertise 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.170 from genetics, nutrition, health. engineering, 00:20:12.329 --> 00:20:15.589 economics, all working together. A holistic view, 00:20:15.730 --> 00:20:18.970 which seems fitting given his career. So wrapping 00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:23.390 up this deep dive on Murray Hunt at 80, his legacy 00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:25.750 is just this incredible mix, isn't it? Scientific 00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:29.289 rigor, practical application, visionary leadership. 00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:33.049 Absolutely. The dollar difference formula, modernizing 00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:35.450 type classification, these weren't just academic 00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:38.529 exercises. They fundamentally changed how farmers 00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:41.250 made decisions and built the success of Canadian 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:43.630 Holstein genetics globally. And achieved through 00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:45.950 collaboration, not just top -down directives. 00:20:45.950 --> 00:20:48.289 Getting people to work together. Plus that constant 00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:50.960 challenge to think ahead. to adapt, not just 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.299 repeating the past, like his view on mentorship. 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:55.859 A mentor is not an honest mentor if all they 00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.160 do is encourage mentees to repeat the past that 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:00.400 no longer applies. Worth repeating. Definitely. 00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:02.980 And balancing all that professional drive with 00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:05.559 a clear focus on his family as his ultimate priority. 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.460 A really well -rounded impact. So as we reflect 00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:11.259 on Murray Hunt's forward look, his focus on adaptability, 00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:15.519 disease resistance, a holistic view, it leaves 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.240 us with a question for you, our listeners. How 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.119 are you thinking about these broader factors 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:22.539 beyond the immediate production numbers? How 00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:24.500 are you building resilience and sustainability 00:21:24.500 --> 00:21:27.839 into your own operations for the dairy landscape 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.880 of tomorrow? Definitely something to chew on. 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.740 Happy 80th birthday, Murray Hunt. And thanks, 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.819 everyone, for joining us on this deep dive. As 00:21:34.819 --> 00:21:37.380 we conclude our tribute to Murray Hunt on his 00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:40.680 80th birthday, we're reminded that true innovation 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.519 often comes from those who can bridge scientific 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.619 precision with practical farming knowledge. Murray's 00:21:47.619 --> 00:21:50.500 legacy lives on, not just in the evaluation systems 00:21:50.500 --> 00:21:53.180 that determine breeding decisions worldwide, 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.579 but in the mentorship he provided to countless 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.180 industry professionals. His forward -thinking 00:21:59.180 --> 00:22:02.119 approach, balancing production goals with animal 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:05.160 health and functionality, offers valuable guidance 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:08.940 as we face dairy's future challenges. Thank you 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:10.900 for joining us today on the Bullvine Podcast. 00:22:11.299 --> 00:22:13.779 If you're working with dairy genetics, remember 00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:16.819 Murray's wisdom. that a mentor is not an honest 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:19.839 mentor if all they do is encourage mentees to 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.259 repeat the past that no longer applies. Until 00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:26.339 next time, keep reading for better tomorrows.