Welcome to botches off -road. Uh, we got a few
things today. Uh, we're going to do some radio
chatter. So it's been a while since we've done
that. Um, we're going to introduce a new segment
kind of near the end there. Uh, and kind of a
new host. Would you call that a new host? It's
a new host. Yeah. It's like a, a small podcast
inside of a podcast. It'll be great. Yeah. It's
almost like having the weatherman on the side.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and here's to Shane with the
weather and yeah, that's what it's gonna be like
with sports Certain sport and we'll tell you
more about that So first I will do some radio
chatter How you doing Gavin? I know I just saw
you like I've seen you this whole time. Yeah,
I'm doing good. I'm kind of disappointed Yeah,
yeah, I mean nobody's called our voicemail Yeah,
voicemail's dead. As that being my favorite part
of the show, you guys are really ruining it for
me. And it's free. We don't really care what
you say. We just want to hear from you. And don't
ring nobody. Yeah, it doesn't even ring anybody,
so it doesn't bother us. It takes 30 seconds
out of your day. Donate 30 seconds of your time
to help this small podcast stay alive. That's
all we need. Oh, I looked up the Snail Trail
phone number. Will you remember? And the number
is 231 -335 -7415 Again, it is 231 -335 -7415
Call now for your special TV offer. We should
record we should record like a commercial and
then just drop it in every episode Yeah, that'll
get that's a quick way to lose or gain listeners.
Well, we'll see we could make it like an infomercial
we're like hi Billy Mays here with a special
TV offer and If you hate us and everything we
have to talk about our complaint line is nine
one six three four five four seven four four
That's over there. It's our local jail Tell Jimmy
and Tyler how much you hate us Make sure you
use our name specifically. That's just extra
airtime Make sure you say botches off -road a
couple of times just to really set in how much
you hate us Yeah, any publicity is good publicity
where we're at right now. So if it's bad if it's
good We're doing fine Yeah, that's, for listeners,
that's the Snail Trail call -in number. Yes.
I'll give them a shout out since I did talk shit.
Yes. Snail Trail's great. Like I said, I was
talking to... I talked a little bit about it
in our 30 minute rap, but I talked to Jimmy.
He was sending me emails back and forth about
some options, and he was really honest and straightforward,
and I appreciated that. Jimmy's great. but for
the time and effort and materials Tyler makes
a great product the more flights great. Yeah
more actually using So I ripped my more flight
back. I don't know how it just ripped but the
pack out the soft pack out Like tool suitcase
thing is perfect fit for the more flight and
hoses perfect. There you go. I uh, I plan on
when my Thor's lightning goes I plan on buying
a Morph late, but for price and My health and
mental safety. I hope my Thor's lightning does
not go out and just Because I don't want to have
to buy I don't like more fleets worth it a hundred
percent Like they're they don't sponsor us They
are just very nice. Well, I think they don't
they don't sponsor They don't sponsor us but
like They did send me stuff, and I should be
giving them shoutouts. Yeah, but they don't sponsor
us, they don't expect us to say anything nice.
Like, they don't require us to. He did a solid
by sending Alex that, but by no means are we
required to say it. I am saying it because I
do believe that they have a really nice product.
Literally nothing bad to say about it at all.
There's there's not much you can say bad about
it when they start offering things like lifetime
warranties if they can back their product like
that, there's not much to say. You know what
I mean? And there's no the other thing is that
when you pay buy into either snail trail or morph
late, you know that that money is going right
back into our eye, maybe not right back into
us, but like. Tyler puts forth a lot of money
into trail cleanups and just trail advocacy in
general So it's worth taking you know, it's worth
paying into that system. Yeah, they get back
to our community. Yeah, that's the word I was
looking for Thank you. You're welcome. So I'm
here. I'm here to fill the gaps. So I was stumbling
over myself Okay. All right. Well, let's move
into some Radio chatter do some radio chatter
I think we'll do just a handful until we feel
like we're good. So just gonna draw right off
the top What? Stuttering sorry. Nope. Everyone's
calling me at one time. Oh Oh, well in other
news while he's looking at that or whatever I
Have some news very sad news one of our local
bakeries burned down here a couple days Yeah,
and they were good bake rip to our farms and
We hope that you can rebuild and bring that like
hundred year old building back. I don't know
about this But it's been there for a long time
used to be hilltop bakery. I think yeah, I think
that's in there my whole life And well before
then yeah, so all right. What's what's your prompt?
What close encounter with nature have you had
we did this a while back, but um for maybe some
yeah for some new listeners this is the used
file let me go grab the new award all right well
while you do that anyway um close encounter encounters
with nature my most recent one would be the elk
i almost hit and atlanta last year so we were
going to a kid's camp and atlanta michigan has
always been known for having elk like they've
released elk there um and I went there to do
a kids camp and was really hoping to see one
but my drive into camp that night we actually
seen an elk and we almost hit it and that was
the first time I've seen an elk in the wild in
my adult years and it was super cool even if
it was for a brief second I think I still have
like a five second video of us almost hitting
its ass but that was like my most recent animal
encounter that i was like really stoked about
i've been looking and looking to see a moose
i'd love to see a moose up close in the up but
this just hasn't happened yet yeah uh my most
recent nature encounter actually happened in
a dream um does that count it may as well dude
i had a dream last night that we're like Mountain
lions became like super sentient and were like
hunting us down like it was wild That would be
scary. It was terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, I think
that and like If raccoons have become super sentient,
they would be a problem I think I think they'd
be a problem, but I think raccoons would just
want to be friends like Little trash man. Yeah
with their little opposable thumbs Think they'd
be like gremlins. What is your most embarrassing
adventure story? Off the top of my head is probably
the one I had to leave early and leave we did
a Trip where the kid ended up getting a fever
and while that wasn't embarrassing. It was the
not having meds to calm the fever we usually
do, we ran out but I also got stomach poisoning
during that and I had not heard about the magic
pill to stop you from doing that stuff but I
was sweating like I had to puke, I had to take
poop we did not have established bathrooms yet
I had not, this was before I even got a bucket
and I was digging holes and it was like every
five to ten minutes I was out there that was
uh with ed and a couple other guys yeah yeah
that was just horrible dude that was that was
probably the most embarrassing because i felt
like i quit but i dude i was so much pain and
stuff it just it was at that point the sienna
was stressed out the kid was crying all night
i couldn't like help because i was off going
to the bathroom all night that was both my most
embarrassing and probably most stressful camp
ever And that's including anything that's broken
with me while I've camped. So what about you?
So the first time I went to Drummond Island with
Joe Yamber, I also got a little bit of stomach
issues. And when I got the truck stuck, they
had to get it out while I ran to a tree to take
care of my problem. Yeah, dude, it's bad. Nobody
understands IBS, man. it hits you like hits you
fast dude all of a sudden you're fine and then
exactly like one second later you could feel
it knocking on heaven's gate and you're like
I'm gonna shit myself right now if I if I talk
wrong I'm gonna shit myself yeah I have you have
to sit there like a totem pole cheeks rigid and
just think through the pain and try everything
in your power not to let it out and then once
that poop talk yeah and then once that clears
fucking book it because you never know how much
time to get all right what's your next card what
is your favorite camp activity dude chilling
by the fire i don't i don't like do you mean
like game or do you like thing to do like chilling
by the fires yeah it's the 2 a .m Which I rarely
do much anymore, but like the late night sitting
by the fire Almost everybody, but usually it's
like everybody, but your closest friends are
asleep And you guys are buddy, but like yeah
like when it gets down to like the last four
people yeah That's when the real conversations
come out real conversations the fires loud this
forest is quiet You can usually hear water if
you're near water It's like the perfect, you
just, there's no babies crying. You just, you
just lay your head back in the chair with a beer
and listen to your buddies talk, you know, smoke
your cigars or whatever. It's just, that's heaven.
I mean - Now winter camping, it's the late nights
around the table hunkered around a heater playing
cards. Yeah, my favorite, because I've only done
winter camping once this year, was sitting in
the tent in my sleeping bag. with my heater vent
inside my sleeping bag, and talking to Mitch,
saying goodnight, because I was not - I was done.
Honestly, the food actually was probably better
than - I've never felt tingling in my toes, but
when I ate that food, I felt a little tangle,
and I was like, ooh, I've never - I've never
felt like this from eating food. That's just
- Good snow wheeling, that's how it goes. You
might only go like a mile the entire day. I wish
that I had more balls to air down, but I really,
really didn't want to de -bead in three feet
of snow. Because I wasn't confident that my jack
would be able to hold the truck up. You're so
much less likely to de -bead in that kind of
snow though. You think? I don't know enough about
snow wheeling to be confident to drop my PSI.
What were you down to? Like, 15, 14? Oh shit,
dude. I go down to like, 6, 7... Yeah, I was
worried that when I get down to like, 8... I
just remember Mark debating, and I know it was
different terrain and stuff, but I remember how
much of a pain it was. That was... Listen. I
love Mark. Mark learned a valuable lesson about
what not to do that day. Well, but I looked at
that, and I remembered the experience. And then
I was like, take the mud away, add three feet
of snow, and my feet are frozen already. I'm
like, I don't want to have to deal with that.
It was just me being like, paranoid about it.
Yeah, I got you. I don't know. I like snow wheeling.
It's really fun. The only downside is sometimes,
especially here in Michigan, because like, when
you get out west, and I only have experience
in the Wachuka Mountains, so I can't speak for
everywhere. But you might have, like we get six
foot of snow on top of some of those and it was
great for snowboarding. With that, there was
like that lighter fluffier stuff that we're used
to that was like maybe the top layer. Then there
was like some wet stuff underneath that and then
solid under that. Yeah. Whereas what we're used
to is it's so cold usually when we get a heavy
snowstorm because out there they'll get a snowstorm,
but it'll be like 35 degrees. So, you know, the
snow is different. Ours, it's negative temps,
with like, basically sand that melts and changes
as you drive over it. Like, it's a whole different
beast. And it's a lot, I don't want to say it's
harder to get through that, but it takes three
foot of snow here, I would say is the equivalent
of like eight or nine foot of snow in the Wachuca
Mountains. Yeah. Well, the issue is that we had
no hard pack, no good hard pack at a good layer.
So we were running. So I say three feet of snow,
but I'm talking about what we were plowing through,
not necessarily what was under where our tires
were. So we were plowing through that three feet
of snow, which our bumpers were hitting and it
was slowing us down as we were pushing it. And
that was three foot of powder. There was no There
was no like, you know, hard pack layer. There
was no heavier layer for us to sit on. The hard
pack was after the three foot of snow. And it
was about, I don't know. Eight inches, nine inches.
Yeah, maybe. Because we were digging through
that even once we started really trying to push
it through. And I never saw the ground that whole
time. You know when we because we won't we or
we went wheeling slash camping that same weekend
More on the camping side for that weekend, but
we we actually dug to put our tents in We actually
dug a square and that square was about four foot
deep and we were in New Wego So you probably
had four and a half five foot of snow up there
in Cadillac yeah, I was up over my waist walking
through the to the tree and I looked around turned
at Mitch and I'm like dude Because I'm a 30 inch
inseam So yeah three feet of snows Like 36 and
it was over my waist and you guys you were on
all terrain tires Which already puts you at a
disadvantage 15 psi each so that was a problem
and The thing and I know this is it's gonna sound
crazy. So mud terrains are better in our snow
than pretty much anything else But, if you daily
drive the rig, that's where an all -terrain comes
in, because all -terrains are better on ice.
Having now done triple peak all -terrains and
mud -terrains on ice, it's about the same, honestly.
I'm gonna be going back to mud -terrains after
this set of tires just because I haven't really
gained anything. I lost traction in snow, I lost
traction in mud, and everything else is the same.
Yeah, I think I think there's a specific use
where all terrains really shine and that's shittier
roads, but ice is ice and at the end of the day
You have to look at the the basic properties
of ice and nothing unless you're studded or chained
Yeah, is gonna give you more traction. You can
have more contact patch. That's fine but if you're
slipping you're already slipping and having a
couple extra inches of contact patch versus A
mud terrain over a mud terrain isn't gonna help
you unless you have Maybe snow tires or the really
soft rubber compound, but yeah, I mean and yeah
on ice Yeah, there's nothing you can really do
point your car in the direction You want to go
and if you do get stuck hit it really hard to
get out Hope you do those those come hoes. I'm
on now They're triple peak rated and were they
better in the wintertime on Road than what my
mud drains were yeah, they were I mean hands
down Yeah, I knew you were driving faster with
those I was like, oh shit, I have to actually
hit 55. But like, was it worth the trade off
from what I had when I wasn't on road? I can't
say that. Even looks, I like I know looks aren't
as big as a play, but Alex's all terrains versus
his mud terrains. It almost looked more like
a street trophy truck than it did a hardcore
wheeler. You know what? I looked at it as, hey,
if he gets more traction on road, and he's good
to go, and he's happy with it, fine. But it definitely
didn't look as cool. And that's why I tried to
get meatier all -terrains. I really like my winter
peaks. I am. I'm really happy with them. I have
no complaints, really, because I don't do the
super deep mud. I don't need mud terrains, per
se. But mud drains are better on rocks. Mud drains
are better in sand. Well, not deep sand. The
Cumho's will really shine at like Silver Lake
over my mud drains. Yeah. Yeah. Altering's do
better in that deep dune sand, I think. Yeah.
But, I mean, you have to look at it from use
case too. Like, what are you actually going to
be in more? Like, we're barely at the dunes.
We're barely in anything with Sand that's deeper
than maybe four or five inches What I actually
plan on doing is I'm getting a set of steelies
As soon as my trucks, you know not port I'm gonna
get a set of steelies. I'm gonna get some inflatable
Bead locks for them and then I'm gonna get mud
trains to put on them that way I can run down
to like zero psi it's a steely so I don't mind
drilling the extra hole for the bead lock and
Then I'm gonna keep my old all trains on my nice
wheels, and I'll throw those on for winter time.
I'll throw those on. I'm doing any long driving,
anything like that. But then when I go wheeling,
I'll put the mud drains back on. It is good to
have an extra set. Like I said, I'm happy with
what I got. But if I had more time and space,
probably I'd probably throw an extra set on.
There's a couple I passed on Facebook that have
been like four hundred and fifty dollars for
a set of tires. Decent tread. I'm like, no, I
just don't. Have the space for them really and
yeah, I fear that I would just let them they
probably dry rot by the time I got to so if you
keep them There's stuff you can do to lubricate
them, which is what I'm gonna do and then tarp
them Um, so I got a storm outside. I ain't got
no where to put them inside. Yeah, so maybe my
basement I guess I could put them down there.
That's just where I'll put them. Yeah but yeah,
so I mean I think the more I've tried both at
this point because Up until I got these come
hoes, I've never had all trains. I've always
had either mud trains or tires on a sports car.
You know, I think you're I think you're altering
to. They look more tame tread wise than. Other
alter like I, I would be curious for you to try
like. My random Clevers. like the all -terrain
i ran ko2s before this right ko2s are just as
aggressive as a kind of clever yeah i i don't
know ko2s are good in snow sand rocks okay in
mud not amazing not great on ice yeah well and
i think ko2 is a very that's a tricky one because
ko2 you either i think you either like them or
you hate them Everyone I've talked to who hated
a ko2 did not have it the right ko2 for their
truck Yeah, and through the FJ forums. It's a
big split a lot of people hated them a lot of
people liked them And that was kind of was like
yeah, I'm good on this because you don't hear
that as much with wild peaks the dislike is less
Wild peaks also fell into collapse Really what
it comes down to is that KO2s come in like every
load range. Yeah, I know. Whereas Wild Peaks
come in two. Well, maybe that's a good thing.
I don't think so, because if Wild Peaks came
in a load C or load B like KO2s do, they would
be a much better tire for like your truck, or
my truck. It'd make them softer, it'd make them
dig easier. Yeah, I think there's good and bads
to that too like softer also softer you don't
want to be too soft either so I Mean yeah, I
don't know and the other thing is in well this
became a tire talk episode real quick uh -huh
the other thing is that mud drains have thicker
sidewalls than what an all -terrain does so if
you're running a mud train you're less likely
to puncture a sidewall on trail than you are
on an all -terrain just Literally every single
category except for ice driving mud trains are
better Yeah And I haven't had enough Experience
with mud trains have only had like one or two
trucks with them So I can't really speak on that
so and again there are shitty There are shitty
mud trains out there. So like don't take it as
just cuz it's a mud train. It's better But yeah,
that's the thing too to remember is yeah, there's
shitty versions of both so just expecting whatever
tire that you pick up some Kumo mud tire or something
that it's just gonna be great it might not work
as well as something else the Kumo all trains
are honestly phenomenal like I my only qual with
them is they're not as good in deep snow they
were fine on rock they're okay in mud not as
good as a mud train but they're okay They don't
have the aggressive crap hanging off the sidewall,
but other than that they've got similar tread
design to a wild peak Yeah, they're pretty good
Yeah, they just don't have aggressive crap hanging
off the side. That's a big bummer for looks It
is I mean there is there and and not only that
but for sidewall strength to There is it doesn't
it just rips them off. It doesn't really add
anything I've read a lot of forums saying that
having the extra, it's not the whole sidewall,
but it's that couple inches over it. Yeah. Helps
from a lot of them tire slipping. They use like,
well, maybe if you're in mud, but like if you
look at the KO twos that I was running, all that
aggressive stuff just got ripped off on rock.
Yeah. If you look at even marks, even if you
look at Mark's Baja's, all the aggressive craps
getting ripped off by rocks. Yeah. Yeah. that
the way that mark wheels though it's pretty I
do I can't blame it but you know if you're gonna
wheel that way and don't be wrong I'm not saying
they shouldn't be there does help it just it's
gonna end up chewed up anyway so like does it
really matter oh that's that's for you to decide
I've never punctured a sidewall there you go
you better find some wood to knock on Just did
the opposite. For the next one, what are some
tips for maintaining your rig or gear? A sprinkler.
Yeah, well... Put a sprinkler under your truck
in the winter. It just flushes the body better
than any car wash will. Yeah. I don't know if
this card is asking for tips for certain things
or not, but for me, I would say like making checklists.
I have an issue remembering everything, so I
have pre -trip checklists, I have gear checklists,
I have food checklists, I have spare parts, I
have a few different ones that I've made over
the years, you know, while I'm camping I'm sitting
in my camp chair and I'm like, I should have
looked at this, I added that into the checklist.
Oh, I should have did this, I added that in.
I recently have been having the idea I Which
we can't do with printful, but I got to find
one. I want to make a book We'll call it like
an adventure book or something like that and
it'll have You know eight or nine pages of the
same checklist so you can go through each one
for so many trips It'll have Logs for keeping
track of your oil stuff like that and it'll all
be pre filled out So you just have to go through
and fill out the lines. Yeah, that wouldn't be
a bad idea That's something that you could like
throw in the glove box, too Right, you can look
at your oil changes or look at the dates where
you worked on something I don't necessarily keep
all the receipts to track dates. So That would
be kind of useful for that. But yeah, I mean
just for maintaining stuff I have lists for maintaining
free checks Stuff that I want to look at before
we go out anywhere. So that gives me the peace
of mind and that we're gonna be okay and then
I keep everything organized and charged during
slow months. I don't know if you do that really.
Right, he goes, I don't. Everything that I use,
I use all year round. Yeah. Well, like my, so
for instance, what I'm not using all year round
would be during the winter, I don't use my fridge.
During the summer, I would use the diesel heater,
so I'd probably check out that every once in
a while. Diesel heater, you probably wouldn't
be bad to let it sit for most of the summer,
but then like late August, early September, try
and fire it up, make sure it's still working,
and then just go through it and repair whatever
needs repaired. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those
things where like, you don't want to end up going
and taking something. that you haven't used all
year expecting it to work and did not run like
let's say my battery pack my anchor 512 if I
didn't touch it all year and I threw a charger
on it just threw it in the truck and expected
it to run and it doesn't work that's you know
something you want to maintain and just check
make sure your things work I turn my fridge on
every couple of days make sure the battery's
topped off, make sure the pumps and everything
are working on it, shut it back off. You know,
I check my faucet, charge my faucet, my USB -C
powered camp fan. Anything that's powered by
USB, USB, USB. I thought you said ESP, and I
was thinking ESP32, so. I was thinking ESP, like,
phantoms, like... but yeah no like anything that's
powered by that stuff I try to have it plugged
in for you know a couple days and then I'll switch
out with another product put that back in and
then you know every two weeks or so I'll re -rotate
everything just to make sure just to keep the
batteries fresh because there are some batteries
that if you let them sit for too long they do
be in to lose effectiveness of charge for the
amount that we pay for the stuff for the better
quality stuff here and there or maybe not the
better quality stuff but in general just the
amount that i pay i want to make sure everything
works and is best maintained in my building yeah
i like i said everything that i use camping i
pretty much use at home so it's not there's nothing
that isn't getting regularly rotated yeah uh
most of my stuff runs off power batteries well
obviously i'm charging or Decharging those all
the time with my power tools. Mm -hmm. I've got
a couple of Milwaukee M12s same thing I use them
for my coats. I use them every day So, I mean
most things or my headlamp, but I use that on
the regular That's nice to have around the farm
Yeah, I've used that DeVos DeVos. That's funny.
We have a DeVos like medical center around here.
So That's why I keep getting the word DeVos from,
because it's spelled the same. It's spelled exactly
the same. I actually thought it was DeVos the
first time I saw it. But yeah, I have that DeVos.
I've used more this year than any other of my
products, like during the winter. When the power
goes out, I use it to light my whole kitchen.
It's that bright that in a house, it'll light
a whole room easily for hours. I use it when
I was refinishing all the walls. I used it as
a work light I Use it for everything dude. I
brought it over to sick Yeah, I brought it over
to Alex's when we were working on Mark's engine
here the other week I hung it up from the hood
and Use that as a light for us that we could
see I mean it works good. That's good quality
product right there actually worth the money
It is hundred percent All right Get to the next
one What destinations are overrated? Hmm any
destination I wouldn't say any destination, but
I would say Camping state parks are over Like
national parks. I don't like because I like the
scenery and the views I wouldn't say any national
park is overrated per se because there is a reason
why they're They're there like that. They're
highly rated, but I I would definitely say state
parks are horribly overrated having having spent
$160 to stay at turkey run next month. I agree
with you that is overrated as hell yeah, and
I'm very irritated that that's where they go
every year it's a trip we do with my stepfather's
friends and It bothers me. That's where they
go because I hate spending that kind of money
to camp in my own gear that I would camp in for
free Anyway, right. Yeah, that's just gas money
that you could have used I mean, yep paying for
any camp spot at less It's like a crazy good
camp spot. The only the only time that I would
pay for a camp spot would be if they Required
you to pay up front for like a national park
camp spot on a cliff Like on a good side edge,
you know what I mean? The only caveat to paying
for campsites is stupid is if you're on a long
trip And you're in a state that doesn't have
anywhere for you to camp Yeah, so you pay to
camp somewhere like we can't we paid 25 bucks
to camp in Illinois one night, but there's nowhere
to free there isn't yeah Yeah, there's very little
so like I don't know because I haven't really
been West but like I don't know if it's all BLM
and national forests and stuff, but there are
some camp spots that I've seen some guys camp
at that I'm like I literally look at the spot
and as far as the eye could see you could see
mountains of beauty and nature and I look at
those spots and I'm like if I had to pay for
it I would for that view it's worth it for the
view but in as far as like your typical overlanding
spot like you just looking for a nice quiet place
to pitch the tent for the night that is kind
of beautiful you know yeah I don't That's extremely
overrated to go sit at a state park with someone's
generator. There's a spot just outside of Sierra
Vista in Carr Canyon. I'll see if I can find
pictures to share with you. Literally where you're
camping at, there's just this huge overhang that
just shows you hundreds of miles of valley before
the next mountain range. And it is, there's nowhere
else in the world where that view, you know,
that view can only be had there. You know what
I'm saying? I'm not saying there aren't places
that are prettier, but Yeah, I I think those
kind of views are worth it those are the Once
-in -a -lifetime style views like the views that
you look at you're taking pictures, and you can
just go wow Those things those are worth seeing
those are worth paying a little bit of money
to see I'm okay with that like they're I've seen
enough videos. I've dreamt up. I dream of doing
this stuff full -time so like I wouldn't mind
doing that to see it, but like, our Michigan
State Park campgrounds, while they are beautiful,
it's just not my style. Like - There's a handful.
Yeah. That I'd say are worth paying money for,
but 90 % of them - During - Yeah, let's - So,
I would say Lelandahl State Park, right on the
tip. I like that one. And I'm gonna be used this
would be the only caveat to what I said, and
it's gonna be only during Low What would this
be like? The non -busy times so the least amount
of people that you can typically get part But
Lille and all state parks beautiful They had
us camped under a bunch of cedar trees really
beautiful area the campsites were gorgeous and
then the other one that I really really like
that I have been to in the past was Two Hearted
Two Hearted is really pretty beautiful and the
suspension bridge that they have going out to
the beach that was like that was the first time
I went camping with my wife was I took her straight
all the way up there but all nowhere to Two Hearted
and that's got a soft spot for me so those would
be the only couple that I am familiar with off
the top of my head that I could say yeah that's
worth That's worth paying it if there's not a
ton of people. Keystone Landing on the Asobel
River is absolutely drop -dead gorgeous. I've
only been there canoeing, so I couldn't drive
you there, but it's an amazing campground. There's
this one camp, specifically one site, and that's
the problem with most of your state forests,
right? There's like one site that's top -tier
and the rest are just meh. Yeah, and usually
that site's always taken. So yeah, and so keystone
landing they've got a site that's right over
like a 15 foot drop off over the river and it's
it's all visible and you can you park your canoes
at the bottom of the hill and then go up the
hill and can't it's just oh my god, dude, it's
so pretty well and then pigeon River up in Well
pigeon River area, I guess. Yep Pigeon River
their horse camp not so much their actual like
public campground But their horse campground
has some of the most beautiful sites you'll ever
find and even if you don't have horse Horse friends
don't persecute me for saying this even if you
don't have horses. It's worth camping there just
for the views Oh, yeah, you're gonna get gonna
get strong I Know I was gonna say that about
uh, what is that Shetler's? I grew up in Shetland
on the summers, but no, I mean, the one thing
that I would say is really great about Michigan
is that they offer a very large variety of everything
as far as camping situations. And if you're someone
who needs water, almost every campsite has water
in Michigan. We have more lakes per mile. You're
never more than two miles from a water source
in the state of Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
there's up by Traverse City. We have the I think
what Manistee going up there. And that there
are camp spots literally every hundred yards
or so from each other. It's far enough to where
you can barely or not see the other person, which
is fine for me, as long as they're quiet. And
even here in Nuego County, it's like that in
Manistee. Yeah, but it's all along the river,
and it's both sides of the river. And lakes,
you have beautiful spots around lakes, and then
you get into the UP, and it's like, you're almost
guaranteed to find a spot that isn't state campground,
that is beautiful by water. It's hard not to,
honestly, in the UP. Really, as long as you're
West Michigan, Northern Michigan, or the UP,
there's a beautiful site within five miles of
you. Oh, absolutely, yeah. As long as you're
not southwest Michigan or southeast Michigan
or East Michigan in general really As long as
you're not in one of those areas once you get
like where we live north You're always within
sight of a beautiful campsite. Yep. Some key
spots would be Cadillac Kingsley Atlanta I love
Atlanta. I think I Gavin will disagree, but I
think it's because he lives with blinders, but
the White Cloud area has some absolutely gorgeous
campsites. I don't disagree. I just haven't camped
in White Cloud ever. Is it just you don't have
much need? You live here, you know? Yeah, I think
I think it is because I live here that I want
to go and see other things then. But I mean,
some of these trips that we're going to have
coming up this summer and probably going to do
more local to we don't have a crazy budget. Yeah.
That's the big thing for us is budget this year.
So we're going to be doing a lot more local.
I think we have like maybe one, we have one five
day trip that we're trying to plan, uh, that'll
be out of state. And then we have Benji's trip
that's out of state. But other than that, everything's
going to be pretty much local. Yeah. All right.
You want to grab another card? This would probably
be, depending on the topic, our last one. Uh,
this is a little probably a more than likely
be our last one. What do you do when you are
not on an adventure? Alright, we're gonna get
another card. Yeah, I prep and watch other people
for the next... I go to work, and I struggle
through, and I watch people adventure, and I
play games about adventuring, and then I go to
bed, and then I wake up, and I watch videos about
people adventuring, and then I go to work. Dude,
all day, I've got enough off road podcasts at
this point that that's almost all I listen to.
Yeah, it's not a super big exaggeration to say
that in our own ways, we eat, breathe and sleep
adventure of this style. That's all we do. I
mean, when not just when we're on podcasts, but
when we're off podcasts and we're talking to
each other, it's always a Facebook build for
a rig. You're right. Like it's always a trailer
build. You go through our group chat. When it's
active, it's been dead. Yeah. And it's always,
it's always some kind of Facebook build. Oh,
this would be a cool truck to drive or this would
be a cool truck to... Did you see that $13 ,000
two bay bathroom I said earlier? Yeah, I did.
Yeah, this would be a sweet bathroom. It's like
a she shed, uh, with a bathroom in a sink. Two
of them. Yeah. Two bay, two, two. It was really
cool. Yeah, it was cool. It wasn't like, most
of them are like white and just basic, this one
had like wood paneling. Yeah, it was very 80s
-esque. Like 80s, uh, camper build. But yeah,
it was cool. But for $13 ,000, I'll shit in the
woods. There ain't no way in hell. No, you couldn't.
And you know that thing's gonna be unstable as
fuck too. Oh yeah, no. I got a trail. It was
a two wheel trailer, like, super short wheelbase.
I mean, that doesn't make it unstable on a trail.
Well, doesn't it make it unstable on the highway?
Like, really short trailers, two wheels. Not
really. The big problem with that one, it just
wasn't set up right. Yeah. I think usually what
you see is like, those being really wobbly on
the highway. Only for people that don't know
how to drive with them. Yeah, well, that's a
big amount of people. Uh, fair warning, this
is a adventure. After Dark card. What is the
swinger sign in the adventure community? I think
we're gonna need a new card, but I give you the
quick one of this. It's still the pineapple.
It's always been the upside down. Yeah, I'm pretty
sure it will always be an upside down pineapple.
I don't see any swingers when I'm wheeling. That
is not as prevalent. Maybe I do and they just
don't tell me. Yeah, it's not as prevalent as
Florida makes it out to be. I think Florida is
really a swing state in more than one way. How
do you stay cool in the summer and warm in the
winter? Alright, this is a card we can go in
on. Always shorts, no shoes in the summer. I
almost never wear shoes in the summer when I'm
camping. Always shorts, always a t -shirt. I
always wear black, but it's obviously not a good
choice for the summer. And then I have, you want
a tent with really good ventilation. That's the
big one. Yep, you want a Good and you can even
face your tent towards the wind for better You
know, it's something you might want to think
of if it's 90 degrees or Buy yourself a tent
that can have take wind ventilation from all
four corners. That's true, too. Yep and then
also a good fan really could make it or break
it 100 % Even a cheap fan is better than no fan.
I think Alex has my other fan, but the fans we
had before that went off of D batteries, which
then I had to carry D batteries. But that was,
it was an okay fan, but the wind power between
that one and this one, plus this one oscillates
and stuff, this one is miles better. Like miles
better. And, like, if you're really bougie, you
can get, like, an AC, or you can make, like,
a swamp cooler. You can, like, tube your, uh,
what is it, tube into a cooler or something and
have that ice water get pushed into your tent,
but, I don't know, just... That doesn't last
very long. No, and you'd waste ice. And, like,
you can do an AC if you're really... Michigan,
I think there isn't really a good place for AC,
unless you're... Like, there have been some crazy
hot nights where I wish I had it, but... Like,
you're not gonna die. You're always gonna survive
it. It's like... I've had some warm nights. Generally,
if it's a warm night, I just... I have, like,
maybe a sheet. Not even. I sleep in my fucking
underwear. Yeah, I sleep straight in my underwear.
Oh, you wear underwear? Yeah, I don't even make
that for her. Oh yeah. If I have to run out of
the tent in the middle of the night for some
reason, I at least want to have underwear on,
but... I generally, if it's hot out, I generally
sleep nude, with just my end vents open facing
the wind so it's blowing through my tent, and
then I keep my PT shorts next to me so that if
I have to go out, I just... Yep. Yeah. Really
interested to see how this... gazelle vents in
the summer because i it won't vent as well as
the dagger i know that for sure just the windows
there's not a ton of windows um the top will
vent if i take the fly off but if it's raining
you're fucked yeah so just for venting i only
have those windows on the side really on both
of my other tents they were pretty much mesh
um Anything over like a foot and a half? That's
the part of the issue with going to a four season.
Yeah, I think that it's gonna be a worth it worthwhile
Endeavor though. I mean I do I can definitely
say if I'm camping in the summer I prefer to
camp in my light fighter than I do in my swag
Yeah, yeah, that's the I I understand that it's
gonna retain heat more but I really It's one
of those sacrifices that I'm like, I'm okay with
sweating my ass off through the night, as long
as that, when winter comes, I know that I'm good.
But even the Light Fighter though, I'm looking
at replacing that. I'm going more to like a bivvy
style for my individual camp setup, just because
I want something I just unroll and I'm done.
I don't want to have to actually take time to
set anything up. You know, I kinda got spoiled
with the swag because it's like instant setup
almost. So I'm gonna replicate that across. Yeah,
I think... I know that it's gonna take a learning
curve for me to get used to a large tent like
this in the weight. This is the heaviest tent
I've ever had. What's it weigh? Like 65 pounds.
It's heavier than my swag? Yeah, dude. This thing's
big. And the package weight is 70 .8 pounds.
Dude, my package weight is 45 pounds. Yeah, this
thing is a beast. And I remember talking to Alex
about like, yeah, you're right, it's not that
big of a deal taking it off the middle of the
roof. But now I'm like, I have to - No, I'm -
Fuck that. I have to reach across the middle
of my roof to grab this, arms fully extended.
Dude, no. I'm like, so they make these gazelle
cradles. Yeah. We'll have to get you some of
those and mount them on the side of your roof
rack so that you just. Because that's or I'm
going to my other idea was to I can't do that.
I'm going to have to. I think what I'm going
to do, I'm going to do like the I'm going to
get two fire extinguisher mounts, the ones that
are circular that you can mount straight down
and. And maybe I'll just mount it to the fucking
side of my truck. Or maybe when I restructure
my truck, I'll leave space for the inside on
the bottom. I wouldn't do that, because it'd
be almost more annoying to have to drag it out
from inside the truck than it would be to just
grab it and roll it off the roof. Yeah. No, I
think if you... I wouldn't do the fire extinguisher
thing. I definitely wouldn't hang it off the
side. I would put one of your boxes in the front
to block any limbs from hitting it. Get those
gazelle mounts. they're like 200 bucks i'll pay
for part of it i don't care i want i want this
to be a tent that's protected for you damn it
um so get those mount those on your roof rack
so you can just set the gazelle in the cradle
pull the straps tight it's done yeah and when
you have to get it off you just grab the strap
pull it down on top of you we'll see i'm gonna
do it a few times and once i figure out how much
i hate it or don't end it then i'll go over there
you know But, I know it's not gonna be all that
great, and Sienna won't be able to grab it, so
I'll definitely have to, but... I bet you can't
just roll it off the roof like I do with the
swag. There's like no impact. Yeah, I mean, in
the future, I will reduce my boxes, number of
them. So, in driver's side, I might have... I
might not have any boxes on driver's side or
something, so I might... that might be what I
weigh, you know, balance the weight with. Yeah.
But, you know, for now I, I'm just going to take
it. There are gives and takes to getting a tent
that you want, um, with everything or all the
features. So my, my, my takes were that it's
going to be 70 fucking pounds and it's going
to be, you know, four and a half, five feet long.
So without betting Well, you know what? I'm honestly
hoping out of this I think it's gonna be bigger
than what I had thought which is maybe good and
bad, but I think what I'm Hoping they get out
of this is sturdiness. I'm hoping that they built
it heavy enough to withstand Like full winner
and stuff like that. So I'm hoping to get a really
good level of sturdiness out of this and That's
good peace of mind This was not a cheap tent,
guys. This is $1 ,000 for a tent. This is probably,
for a ground tent, one of the most expensive
ground tents on the market. One of them. Well,
I say, maybe... Top 20, I would say. For overlanding
and camping, I would bring that back into like
top 5 to 10. Originally, $1 ,200 tent. You've
got the Alakanak, which is, if you get the 10
by 10 one, you're looking at like four. You've
got... Well, are we talking overlanding or just
like camping in general? I would count an Alakanak
could easily be an overland type camp. Like a
take down, put up every night tent? You could,
if you had a reason to use an Alakanak, yes.
Because you're going to be fitting six to seven
people in there. It's only going to take you
10 to 15 minutes with six to seven people to
set that tent up. Yeah. I'm assuming this is
a massive campus tarp. 10. I mean, they're like
10 by 15, like they're big. Yeah. So, but yeah,
I've found small. Yeah, I'm talking. Like the
Overland camping style, that's that's almost
like base camp style, but but yeah, no, I mean,
it's one of the most expensive. in the over landing
market for sure. Like shift pods are about the
same price. Um, FSR same price. I mean, it's
$700 more than the typical gazelle. So you, I
mean, it costs you more for that than it cost
me for my two swags. Yeah. Yeah. Three swags
throw in the dog swag. Yeah. This is a massive
purchase and this was not made lightly, but it
was also experimental. like I finally have gotten
to a place to where like I can afford a thousand
dollar tent and it was the right time right place
I got a good discount on it it was a little less
than a thousand dollars now I think I paid eight
fifty for it a nine maybe but you know here there's
close enough that's a lot and I'm really interested
and if all goes well and I can really get some
time maybe away from the kid this week, I could
potentially be the first person to, on YouTube
at all, to do a review of. The only videos on
this tent right now are from Gazelle and they're
just a showcase video. They're not in depth,
they're not a walkthrough. I'm also going to
bring this tent to the first ever Rigs and Coffee
that we have this year, which is in a park. Did
you see that? It is. That's cool. So I'm going
to bring it to the park, showcase that a little
bit, not to show off, but to show other people
what it is, because I've had a few people, because
I've mentioned it on a few different pages, I've
had a few people ask me questions about it. So
I can't really tell you. So, but yeah, it'll
be interesting. Maybe I'll have Alex on the video,
come YouTube and we can measure it. We can look
through it. He can tell me what he likes that
maybe doesn't like on it. is at that point it's
already bought it'll be here tomorrow like so
they're not gonna do it by now it's a pretty
bang solid looking then dude like i'm i'm excited
for you yeah if i if i wanted something bigger
i would have went i don't know i i'm pretty happy
with the swag just because it's like it's a one
and done kind of thing you know what i mean you
just you put it down it's ready to go but then
at the same time there's it'd be nice to have
more space Yeah That's really it really spate
being able to stand up would be pretty killer.
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for and This is
bordering on the line of gazebo This is it is
it is it's like what this is uh what what's the
dimensions on the thing? Oh? Go look it up, but
yeah, no this is my country t5 right yep Let's
see I got it right here dementia Uh, 114 inches
by 114 by 795. 137 by 137 by 795. Oh, floor width.
Yes, floor width. Yes. Sorry, I was looking at
just product dimension. How tall is that in feet?
I don't know. I mean, that's literally the size
of our canopy. Yeah, that's big. That's almost
too big. It's 12 by 12. Yeah. No. You're gonna
really like the extra space once you get used
to it. It would be worth you getting a full -size
or queen -size cot, because it will make your
life a lot better being able to sit up. Just
don't get one of those crazy big ones. No, I
don't plan on it. I don't even plan on getting
a cot this year. That may come into in the future.
Try it? I just - to change or sitting to... It's
nice when you wake up and you just kind of swing
off and put your boots on and you don't have
to... It's nice to be off the ground. You're
muted, by the way. Yeah, and this one's big enough
that when I get up or go to bed at night, I can
just throw the camp chairs and still set up.
So I get up in the morning, I can just sit down,
put my boots on on the camp chairs and I have
no problem with laying on the ground. Uh, like
I said, I sleep very well. Um, some of my best
sleep ever has been on that camp pad. So I have
no issues with that. Is I've slept on my camp
pad on the ground. I've slept on it on a cot.
I'll tell you, you throw that camp pad on a cot.
It's a whole nother level. It's the same comfort
you get on the ground. the space that it would
take more on these but yeah for me it's just
my l5 and it's only that only gets bad if I strain
it doing like like for instance this winter when
I was pulling winch all day I kept straining
it because I was twisting my body and pulling
but for the most part during camping I have no
issues with that so getting up is just like getting
up off the floor any other time so I don't really
have any issues it and at some point I have to
go Am I being lazy? And like, and for you, I
get it because your knees hurt. That makes sense
for you. But for me, it's like, yeah, why? I
don't want to, I don't feel like there's just
no point. Like for me, there's so much more point
than you realize. You'd have, you'd have to try
it. I mean, I've done hot camping before, but
it was on the army cots. I didn't love them.
Um, we probably didn't have pads on them either.
No, I didn't. I just had the sleeping bag. Sleeping
on a straight army cot is not a great experience.
Yeah. I loved hammock camping, but you can't
hammock camp with like your wife and kids stuff.
Just get one of those Haven Nest. I thought about
it. I did like 600 bucks. Yeah, I know. I've
thought about it. Then you need three trees and
like two. Right. Haven's Nest only needs two.
Right. And. But at that point to like you start
to limit yourself to only being so like let's
say We're talking Labor Day. There's no trees
You put it between two trucks Yeah, I would have
to find someone with a truck that would be okay
with putting it right between their truck, but
yeah The Haven's Nest was in the running for
when I got a new tent Yeah, but the thing that
kept me from doing it was the limiting, you know,
where can I use this? um yeah I mean that's really
the downside to a hammock too and the great side
is I can have a hammock in my truck at any point
it's super small and compact yep and I'm a big
guy I'm at least 320 and I can jump in my hammock
with no you know no worries that I'm gonna rip
through it or anything so that's nice to be able
to just set up it makes a great camp chair a
good napping area so I just have one sit in my
truck anyway but I don't know. I can't sleep
in a hammock. I'll be honest. I can but it's
it's uh, it's one of those things where it's
like It's definitely a one -person deal. Like
I'm not I can't I can't double up on a can't
in a hammock. I tried that I could I can sleep
in the hammocks that have like a solid base like
the Haven's Nest Yeah, and I could share something
like a Haven's Nest But the problem comes down
to that's more money for Just a tent that I hang
in the tree like that's not it's not worth it
Yeah, and it like it limits you so yeah it but
all right on that note We need to roll into our
our new Segment here So we're gonna go to Shane
for sports no We're gonna start doing like Recaps
of races every week not every week, but every
week. There's a race. We'll do a recap of races
One of the guys from botches is really big into
f1 So as the f1 season goes on he's gonna do
a little 10 to 15 minute recap of the f1 race
I'll try to always put them at the end or Mark
them so you can skip it if you're not a fan of
fun fast cars But you know is what it is so we'll
go to Shane with the sports and then we'll see
you guys later Well, hold on We got one more
we have a radio chatter we want you guys to call
in on yep we do want that so excuse me if you
can hear my kid crying in the background but
um yeah he's gonna pull a radio chatter card
and this is gonna be a prompt for you guys to
call in on voicemail leave us a message with
the answer to the card all right let me know
when you find one so what piece of gear has been
the biggest disappointment for you oh that's
a good one I'm interested. We're going to throw
this prompt on our page too. Alex is going to
take a picture of it and we'll post it on our
Instagrams with our phone number and we'll see
if we can get you guys to call in and tell us
your biggest disappointment and gear that you've
had yet. So with that, anything else? Finishing
comments? No, we'll hand it on over to Shane.
All right. Yeah, Shane. See you later. Have fun.
Well. Typical botches fashion. I recorded with
Shane. There's a great a great recap on the race
went way longer than planned about 35 minutes
and I Had some interjections and I lost half
the audio. I don't know what happened there Typical
botched job of I was busy. I didn't save something.
They got lost but Shane did a great job I think
we're gonna the next Episode we'll get one in
there. It'll be a little more clean cut Yeah
basics of it Formula is great. And the only thing
that sucks is that they went to Apple TV. So
it's hard for me to watch so Sorry listeners
We'll try this again. We got a kind of clean
it up I shouldn't have said we were gonna do
a new segment without doing a test record first
But by the end of this year, you will be getting
race recaps at some point, whether it's a whole
nother podcast that we launch alongside. We might
do that. It might actually be better. We'll see.
But either way, it's a good episode. Shane did
a great job. I'm so sorry, Shane. You're really
your recap was amazing. And I really think that
a second podcast might be the way to go. But
we'll we'll catch you guys later.