Know you're kind of getting the ketchup stuff
now because it's the end of the year. I Am embarrassed
to admit that I've been holding on to this episode
since back in October This is probably the biggest
interview we've ever done We had it scheduled
Mark would and Gavin were both sick or couldn't
make it or something Had forgotten the day that
we were gonna do this and was actually planning
to record a whole different episode It wasn't
gonna be nearly as good as this one ended up
being And then Dan this one's with Dan Grek He's
kind of a big deal if you didn't know Dan reached
out to me and Mentioned or was like hey, where's
the where's the link? And I was like shoot. We're
supposed to record with Dan today So it's it
was very haphazard and then I made the mistake
after that of forgetting to name dan gregg's
file and it has taken me this long to find it
and make sure that i had it right this one should
have been released so long ago dan i'm so sorry
this took so long your story is incredible i'm
so glad we were able to record with you even
though i screwed this up so bad um this is probably
the single most embarrassing thing i've done
on the podcast Because of how things were handled
I've done better. We've gotten better things
have been crazy, but we've been doing our best
to get content out to you guys and I hope you
enjoy this episode. I again this is This is such
a big one. I I don't think I've heard any other
podcast with Dan. I know he's done a couple but
his story is like How do I put this he's like
do you I don't want to say the original overlander
because obviously that's like way way back But
like modern times Dan's up there. He's doing
stuff that other people hadn't done Maybe they
had done but not He made his story known. He
wrote books He Dan's just a great guy. Listen
to this episode I'm sorry. I won't screw it up
again. I promise Welcome to botches off -road
join us as we talk about everything from gear
reviews to trail stories tank camping to rock
landing and all things to do with the outdoors
So today we've got a guest all the way. Are you're
in Canada, correct? I am in Canada. Yep all the
way from Canada This is actually when we started
the podcast I told the guys if we can get to
a point where we have Dan Grek on I'll be really
impressed so I with that Announced I'll introduce
Dan Gregg That feels like a hard hard thing to
live up to I don't know I don't know if I'm that
guy or just some other guy that is pretending
I don't know man I I kind of feel that way too
and people say stuff like that about me. Um No,
I read I've read your first book. I I read that
Probably a year ago two years ago It's really
good. I I started with a TJ I had a yellow 2004
speed or four four -cylinder five -speed Nice
seeing someone drive as far as you did in a TJ.
I got to give you props, man I I drove mine from
Michigan to Arizona and I that's a lot Well,
I feel like Alex I like to say there's a fine
line between brave and stupid And usually it
just depends on the outcome If everything goes
well, people will say like oh you were brave
and if everything goes badly people will say
you were stupid But I mean the activity that
you did isn't any different. Yeah Yeah, you're
uh and your TJ that was a 4 -0, correct? No,
no, it was a four -cylinder. Oh shit, dude Yep,
four cylinder, five speed, 2000, and it was bone
stock, not a single modification of any kind.
I mean, that is that until you say no modification,
that's mind to a T. I guess we should back up
a little bit, though, until until the listeners
where I actually drove this thing. Yeah. Oh,
yeah, for sure. Yeah, you went what the whole
Pan American Pan American. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I started in Calgary in Canada where I
was living at the time and I drove all the way
up to the Arctic Ocean in Alaska and kind of
like hung out in Alaska for a whole summer and
was like hiking and camping and having a great
time. And then when it started snowing, I was
like, no, I'm getting out of here. And so started
driving south and just kept going. And I ended
up I drove all the way to the bottom of South
America. That's so amazing. I was on the road
for two years. It was like fifty five thousand
miles over two years through 17 countries. How?
I'm sure you get this question a lot. How did
you finance that? Yeah, Alex I just I was working
before I left and I just dedicated myself to
saving money And I just said I'm not allowed
to spend any money unless it's for something
I'm gonna take on the trip So there was like
no eating out no alcohol. I had to walk to work
every day all of that kind of stuff I just did
for two years to try and save as much money as
I could And so, you know, every payday, I would
just put as much of my paycheck as I could into
a savings account. And it was it was two years
of, you know, slogging like that. Yeah. But then
it bought me two years of I don't have to go
to work anymore. I can do whatever I want. That's
amazing. That and what I'm sorry. Like I said,
been a long week. So, yeah, you. you didn't have
any modifications so standard transmission standard
engine standard it's 30 35 Dana 30 35 yep yep
it would have been and uh stock little 31 inch
tires no winch no fridge no rooftop tent nothing
like that because basically i didn't have enough
money alex and right and i thought to myself
like if i bought all of those things like that's
all just my savings account for the trip gone
And then then I would have this really awesome
Jeep, but I wouldn't have any money to take it
anywhere. Right. So I kind of just decided and
like, do I actually have to have a winch? Like,
is it is it 100 percent mandatory? No, no, I
don't think it is. So I'm going to go without
one and I'll just have to make smart choices
and try not to get stuck. How much actual off
roading did you have on that trip? Because a
lot of that's highway, isn't it? It's really
it's up to you if you drive the Pan American
you could do pavement for literally every mile
of the whole trip if you wanted to You can have
a lot of rough gravel roads if you want and then
you can go There isn't really that much like
wheeling so to speak like, you know low range
in the Jeep I probably used once a month it just
it just isn't the kind of thing where Locals
are out there driving wild built -up vehicles
into super super remote places. They're more
driving like beat up old Hilux's and like beat
up old Mazda BT 40s and stuff. And they've got
bald tires, they maybe have working four wheel
drive. And like it's it's a really rough, rutted
out horrible road, you know, up to some glacier
or some lake or something. But really any decent
four wheel drive is going to make it. It's not
the kind of thing that you have to have like,
you know, 35s and you know, a huge suspension
lift and that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's that
that's on my bucket list. Granted. My forerunner
is not near stock. And if I did drive that, that's
where all my money went. That's the thing is,
is like, if you like, you can build up an awesome
vehicle, or you can just keep all that money
for gas in the tank and then go and drive a really
long way. You know, and it's like pros and cons
each way around. There's no, there's no right
answer. So compare it. So you had the TJ. What
was between the TJ and your jail? I've got a
jail now, but yeah after after the Pan American
Highway basically that trip changed my whole
life And I was like this is this is awesome.
I want to do this again So I went back and got
a desk job, and I had to say for four years this
time So it was it was four years of like living
in a share house. No eating out You know walk
to work even in Canadian winter all that kind
of stuff, and then after four years I had enough
money, so I quit that job. I bought a four -door
JK And this time I did deck it out quite significantly.
So it does have like winch and suspension and
a pop -up roof and a fridge and solar panels,
kind of like the whole Overland setup, I guess.
I shipped that Jeep over to Africa and I drove
it all the way around the coastline of Africa.
And so, yeah, that trip took me three years to
go through 35 countries, mostly following the
coastline of Africa. And that trip was, that
was a thousand times bigger and more adventure
than I even thought was possible. I really had
no idea what I was getting into, which was perfect
because if you really sat down and thought about
all the things that could go wrong or all the
kind of wild places you'd get to, I think it'd
be too scary and too intimidating and like maybe
I never would have gone. I'd be like, oh, you
know, it'd be easier if I just stay at home.
So it was probably a good thing that like I just
went into it and just went for it. And you know,
every day I just had to solve today's problem
and tomorrow is the problem for tomorrow. Don't
worry about it. Yeah, it's probably better. Just
do it and don't think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Cause
I think it'd be easy to stay home for years and
years and years trying to plan and trying to
prepare for every outcome and try to like map
out your route to every single road and every
border crossing. But then, you know, you get
there within within the first couple of countries.
It was like, oh, no, that bridge is washed out
and all that board has been closed for years
and like, no, no, we're in flood right now. You
can't drive that road. And then so you're just
like, oh, so I just have to make it up as I go
along. Oh, OK. I'll just do that then. It's like
it's kind of less effort to just make it up than
it is to play and weigh in advance. Now, Africa
would have had a lot more off roading than what
you had on Pan American, right? It definitely
did. Yeah, even. even when you're on a major
highway definitely there were times i was in
like low range four -wheel drive with like water
coming over the hood it's like it's it's it's
go time like put the foot down don't don't hang
around here yeah that's did you uh so when it
comes to edgy locals i guess that's a safe term
to use edgy yeah where was your biggest issue
with locals did you have more of that south america
or africa I have never had a problem with any
locals anywhere on the planet. Alex. I met awesome
to hear super friendly people, super welcoming,
often like, you know, yeah, yeah, you can come
camp here in like our little mud hut village.
Like here are my children. Oh, by the way, do
you need some food? Like, you know, people who
literally live in a mud hut were giving me food
and water. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible.
Probably. I mean, when you say edgy, definitely
like a lot of corrupt military and police and
stuff, trying to get money out of me. Which is
which is a whole sort of side game topic that
it does happen But it but it isn't something
you need to be scared of or worried about if
this it's kind of just part of the trip But you
can talk your way out of it. You don't have to
pay if you don't want to yeah, it's a Reading
that part. I think it was Argentina. Did you
have issues in Argentina? Was it? Yeah, there
was a couple of countries Honduras. Definitely.
There was a bit of it Peru. There was quite a
bit of it Hmm. Yeah, it's It's crazy to think
I mean we have that problem here in America,
too So it's not like we can say too much, but
it's just crazy to think that governments are
like that everywhere, you know Well, and and
I don't even know if it's the government's it's
more like just these these guys who are on the
side of the road You know, maybe it's their job
to sort of you know, check people's passports
and whatever but they're bored out of their minds
They probably don't get paid very much. So then
it just occurs to them. They like oh we could
just ask this guy for 20 bucks. Like if he gives
it to us, that's pretty sweet. We get an extra
20 bucks in our pocket today. Like a lot of them
too, when they ask, they don't demand it or they
don't, they would never point their gun at you,
but they're not like threatening you with violence
or anything like that. More often than not, they're
just kind of like, oh yeah, and you can give
me $20. And you're like, no. And then they go,
okay, you can leave now. They sort of just try
their luck most of the time. That's still it's
so crazy that because like I said, it happens
here. So why wouldn't it happen anywhere else?
Um, so When you were in Africa, you had the JK.
Do you still have the JK? I actually do still
have it Alex and I need to move it on I was really
hoping to get it into a museum or something like
that But I just haven't been able to put it together
and hasn't worked out. Yeah, cuz you And you're
you're selling your JL to right? I am yeah, so
that's kind of the most recent vehicle that we
just finished another big trip in Man, you just
you gotta hold on to one of them. Come on, man
Well, the challenge is Alex. I don't have enough
money to just have like a fleet of vehicles I
don't have a garage so I don't have anywhere
to put them Here in Canada, they're just gonna
get rusty and old if I've already got a new one
I'm not gonna use the old one so it just doesn't
really make sense even though it would be fun
like sentimental value but at the end of the
day i'd rather someone else go take it on adventures
and use it rather than it just sit around somewhere
and get rusty yeah we we have that problem here
too everything rots out my forerunners got a
patchwork on the frame so yeah yeah yeah i mean
uh and the jl because you've got a wife and kids
now kid now kid kids i do yeah one kid yeah So
I could see that little two -door JL being kind
of a struggle now Well, it's interesting Alex.
It's not a two -door at all. So it was a four
-door JL Wrangler And we literally cut it in
half with an angle grinder and then we glued
on a big composite cabin on the back So it has
like a full little apartment on the back right
with like induction cooktop sink with running
hot water like Fridge solar panels, you know
lithium batteries water tank hot shower all of
that basically and a pop -up roof all on a Wrangler
and it's kind of bizarre but the living space
that you have inside of that thing it's more
than twice as big as the bed of a gladiator so
if you had like if you had like a go fast or
any kind of you know pop -up on a gladiator it's
twice as big as that so it's it's pretty big
yeah just still man for the living part probably
wouldn't be bad with the kid because your kid's
little right like well The thing is, when we
left on our most recent trip, we went from Iceland
all the way through Europe and into Tunisia and
North Africa. When we left home, she was only
six months old. So she was tiny and it was easy.
Now she's two months old and she is like a little
terror climbing over everything and pulling all
the cabinets apart. And so it used to be adequate
and now it just doesn't make sense for three
people anymore. Yeah, I've got a three -year
-old we do we tent camp when we go camping because
having him in the car would be awful. Yeah Yeah,
it's definitely a challenge and and that's the
reason that I need to sell it and that you know
I'll move on to something else that is better
suited for three people Do you have a a future
trip in mind to build a rig for oh, I have a
lot of future trips in mind Alex But a lot of
them a lot of them are contingent on kind of
political situation or wars or you know It's
funny though, I'd love to drive around the Middle
East or do a lap around the Mediterranean. I'd
love to drive across Central Asia. I'd love to
go back and go right down the middle of Africa.
I'd love to check out the East Coast of South
America. I didn't see Brazil or any of the countries
in the North. They're all, I think, incredible
trips. And in a funny way, it doesn't really
matter which one I do next. It's more like which
one is possible based on like politics and wars
and whatever else and just go for it Like start
keep ticking them off keep keep seeing places
I've never been to before and then maybe one
day when I'm really old I'll hopefully will have
done most of the things that I like I'm excited
to do Yeah, it's The politics or war, you know,
I never I only do trips, you know on one continent
So I don't have to think about it too much But
that's that's a big deal man, cuz you've got
I mean we all know what the Middle East is like
right now Well a little better now, but it was
way worse last week. Um So we all know what the
Middle East is like. We all know what is going
on up by with Russia and Was it Russian Ukraine
that are still at war? Yeah Yeah, and it's really
hard to drive drive across Central Asia without
dipping into Russia at least a little bit It's
you kind of almost have to right? Yeah That's
a true I'd almost want to do just Russia. That's
such a big country. I mean, that's the majority
Russia has a larger percentage of land than like
anyone else. So hmm. Yeah Yeah, it's the biggest
country and and because it has such a huge east
-west spread. It kind of has like a massive diversity
Yeah, it that would be a really cool trip Basically
impossible, but a really cool trip It's actually
not impossible at all. I've got friends actually
who were just there like two weeks ago Like driving
yep driving their Canadian plated vehicle. It's
it's actually no problem right now. It just is
like a Little bit tense or a little bit like,
you know, you kind of sense that something's
a bit off but you can get a visa no problem you
can get in people are apparently really friendly
and kind and Because as always, it's not the
average Russian person who wants to start wars
and cause problems. It's just an aspect of their
government or their military or whatever. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's just kind of like save money, plan
up, build a new vehicle, and then see which trip
makes the most sense. And even that comes down
to the seasons as well. I don't really want to
drive across winter in Russia, Russia in winter.
So then it's like, Oh, you know, we can manage
to get some time off work or we can get a break,
you know, between this month and this month.
It's like, all right, let's go to Brazil because
that makes more sense than Russia right now.
Or, you know, something like that. Yeah. I don't
know. I'd want to go snow wheeling in Russia.
That'd be a blast. Definitely. It'd be a blast
for like a week or two. But imagine if it was
like six months of minus 40. Like that starts
to be less fun. I knew minus 40 for about a week
after that. The weather's got to warm up. Yeah,
exactly. And especially if you're camping in
your vehicle, then it's even less fun. What part
of Canada do you live in currently? Are you still
up by BC? Yeah, I'm in BC right now. So you guys
get pretty decent winters over that way. Not
terribly cold down here. I'm kind of in southern
BC. So we'll see. We'll see like minus 10, maybe
minus 20. But I used to live up north by Alaska,
and that was minus 40 for a good few months.
Like probably cold. Is that a freedom unit minus
10 or is that Canadian? Sorry, I meant freedom
unit minus 10 or minus 20 at the coldest in freedom
units. Yeah, we here in Michigan, we get, you
know, we'll get negative 10s, negative 20s, at
least in my part of Michigan, you go farther
south and it's, you know, they might see under
20. But where we're at, it's usually negative
10s, negative 20s is pretty average. Yeah. But
I can't handle that for more than like a month.
And if it's much colder than that, it's like
a week and I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. And it gets
hard. When you're driving around in a vehicle,
you have to deal with the roads, you know, the
ice and the kind of unplowed roads. And then
at some point you say, what are we doing? Like
every day we drive somewhere, you can't really
go for a hike. You can't kind of see anything
much. You kind of just hunkering or just trying
to like wait until it ends. Which if you're in
Alaska or you're in Russia, it's not going to
end. You're stuck with it for many months. I
typically try to avoid winter on my trips, although
I love the winter in general, but I don't really
want to be living out of a vehicle in winter.
How do you prepare for a big trip? Do you have
a checklist that you... you lay out and make
sure everything gets checked or do you just kind
of know what you need and get it tossed in? I
do especially for the first trip I had huge big
checklists on my wall and it was really cool
because every single day I would see them and
like think about you know like Jeep paperwork
and visas and immunizations work that I needed
to do on the Jeep like maintenance spare parts
I needed to get together for the Jeep you know
all my camping gear kind of just all of that
stuff. And then I did the same thing for Africa
because I really knew that once I left North
America I couldn't just you know order stuff
on Amazon or go to a good outfitter and you know
get a winch or something like I had to have it
all organized before I went And then kind of
more recently I've done enough of them now that
I kind of just I know in my head or I just make
it up as you know I'm like I know when I'll be
ready and saving money is actually the hardest
part and it takes the longest So I usually have
a long time to prepare because I'm spending so
long just going to work to save money. Yeah that
makes sense. I just I was looking up to see when
your trip through Pan American is now I see a
picture of you with the Hood of your Jeep. Yeah,
you gotta ask man. How does it feel not having
all that hair anymore? Yeah, I had the dreadlocks
on that trip and I know I kind of have a have
a rule on myself that in my life I want to have
every haircut possible. So I've like shaved my
head. I've had a mohawk I've had dreadlocks,
you know had long hair. So it's just just fun
because why not? But I won't do dreadlocks again.
They were fun at the time, but I was sick of
them at the end. I wanted them gone. I mean,
it's good to have the haircuts while you have
hair, because once you lose it, then it's only
one haircut works. Yeah. And mine's definitely
getting thinner, so my days might be running
out. Mine pretty much went away. The army shaved
my head and it never grew back. Yeah. Know I
keep going back to your TJ's just TJ's are so
cool to me and seeing someone take a stock one
as far As you did is just it blows my mind Did
you have any major issues with the TJ on that
trip? So Alex, it's kind of incredible I never
turned a wrench once not for it other than oil
changes tire rotations I never ever did anything
so it never broke down. It never failed to start.
It was a flawless little Jeep And the craziest
part of the story is, before I left home, I bought
it for $5 ,000, used, drove it that whole way,
and then I sold it for $5 ,000 in Argentina.
That was a free trip. It never broke down, and
the Jeep was free. It actually, I think, is the
best vehicle ever made. I don't think you can
beat that. Someone would have to pay you to take
a vehicle for it to be better than that. So mine...
I bought it with I had like 60 ,000 miles on
it was really low miles a little TJ I bought
it 2015 Cuz I was I was in Korea sent my dad
the money to go pick it up cool and I drove it
about a year We were out rock crawling one day
and I I mean I turboed it I needed a little bit
more power, you know, just it wasn't quite enough
for crawling rocks and I came up over a rock
and Made a funny sound and shut off and it would
never start again. So well dad came dad came
down and got it Brought it back up here to Michigan
and started taking it apart and I'd put one of
the the Pistons right through the block. Oh,
yes Never windowed a block as good as I did with
that DJ That's crazy. And then so did you just
put another four cylinder in it? For the last
ten years dad's been slowly plucking away at
it. So he just he'd bought 4o out of a Cherokee
and It for whatever reason it just wasn't gonna
work. So he had he redid the frame. We just got
done painting that Then he just picked up another
TJ that was super rotted out but that had a four
-cylinder and Is it the axe 15 that came with
the 4o cuz axe 5s with the two -point or with
the four -cylinder? That's right. Yes. It's yeah
the ax 15 Yep, and this one had the four -cylinder
and axe 15. So we're pulling the engine out of
that one Putting it on the frame and then putting
the tub back on it. Yep. Yeah, it's a project.
Oh, dude. He's like I said, 10 years. He's just
been slowly plucking away at it. Yeah, that's
why. It'll be it'll be nice when he's done. I
think and the next year we should have it done.
Yeah. At this point, it's getting time to do
it. You know, it'll be fun to have it back on
the road for sure. Yeah, it's a lot of memories
in that little Jeep, man. Yeah, I I took that
to Moab. Pulled it. I had a 73 J 4000 the Jeep
pickup. Yeah, and I pulled that little Jeep all
over South, you know, southwestern United States.
That's awesome and just wheeled the hell out
of it. It was just a great little Jeep. Yeah.
Some days I think about reaching out to the guy
that I sold mine to in Argentina and just just
being like, oh, hey, man, do you still have it?
And like, would you be interested in selling
it back to me? Feels like there's a trip there
where I like fly down to Argentina and then drive
back again. feels like that would that would
be a good way to like bookend the story and maybe
that time i go through brazil and like the other
way around south america yeah that'd be sick
yeah and then be like completed drive it all
the way back to where i started and be like done
yeah i uh yeah i don't know tj's just hold a
special place in my heart i think that's why
i read your book was because it was a tj and
i was like this guy's crazy Well, it's funny.
I I didn't really think about it too deeply I
I already owned it because I'd always wanted
a soft top Jeep and I'd been on tons of like
weekend camping trips and it had been really
good that was fun to drive and you know, it looked
cool and and I was like Why wouldn't I take it?
It's a good little four -wheel drive and you
know, it does everything I need it to do make
sense Yeah, that's so you uh, it took you two
years. You spent a summer in Alaska So how much
of that was drive time, thanks? I know you had
a couple stops where you stayed for a little
while. Yeah, I stopped in Ecuador for five months.
That was the longest stop. And along the way,
I pretty much just stopped anywhere that I liked.
So I would just get to a place and if like set
up camp and be like, hey, I really like the vibe
or I really like how peaceful it is or whatever,
whatever the reason I'd be like. maybe I'll stay
here a week maybe I'll stay two weeks and like
learn Spanish and like eat street food and just
hang out like I rented a surfboard a couple of
times it just the whole trip really was just
like do whatever I want whenever I want and whatever
you know and sometimes I'd be up in the mountains
and it'd be like really crisp air and cool and
like not humid I'd be like sweet I'm staying
here this is great you know and then you go down
into the jungle and you're like oh my god I'm
sick of the jungle like get me out of here So
it was just, it was just sort of every day was
do like take it as it comes and see what is next.
How, now that you're traveling with your wife
and a kid, how different is the vibe when you
do those trips? Is it still the free go lucky
or? No, sadly, it's not the free go lucky. It's
changed quite a bit. There's a lot more city
stuff. So there's like museums and food tours.
And so a lot more sort of like cultural things.
which I never really bothered with. I'm like
way more of a wilderness person. I'd be happy
just to drive out in the middle of nowhere and
set up camp and just be by myself for a week.
Yeah, so it's changed quite a bit, but at the
same time, we still, I mean, I think about it,
we were in Iceland for three months and I did
every single four -wheel drive track that I...
could possibly imagine doing. There was nowhere
in Iceland that we didn't go that I look at or
think about and be like, oh man, you know, if
I went there by myself, I'd go and do this. No,
we already did. And it was amazing. So yeah,
we still managed to get remote and still like
tackled all the really hard tracks. It was great.
Yeah. Iceland. Iceland is just beautiful. All
of it. Every, every off -road video I've seen
in Iceland is pretty. I mean, all of it's just
pretty. Uh, there's another guy. I cannot remember
his name. But he posted, they rented a van while
they were in Iceland. You know, a fully built
out camper van. And I'm like, man, just fly out
there, drive someone else's car for a little
while. It'd be such an easy trip. A hundred percent.
And it is extremely beautiful. Like every single
day, Katie and I would look at each other and
say, is this even real? I actually don't believe
it. Hands down, not even close to the most beautiful
place I've ever been in the world. there's like
no equal there's no comparison that's amazing
yeah it's wild and there was no ice right or
very little ice uh we stayed all the way into
october uh we drove on a glacier so there was
plenty of ice there plenty of ice yeah and then
we stayed into october and it got down like zero
fahrenheit i guess and like was snowing hard
and yeah there was plenty of ice then Yeah, cuz
that's what Greenland's the green or Greenland's
the icy place and Iceland's the less icy place
Yeah, Iceland's especially in summer Iceland's
very green Yeah Now that trip I did you write
a book about that? No, you wrote a book about
Africa. That's right. Yep. Yep I'm a little bit
behind I still haven't even written a book about
the Australia trip either which we spent I forgot
there was yeah Yeah, we spent a year and a half
like trying to get as remote as possible in Australia
and we tackled like all of Australia's hardest
four -wheel drive tracks and the most remote
road in the world, one of the biggest desert
crossing in Australia. Yeah, so we tried to explore
as far and wide as we possibly could. Did you
do that in the JL or the JK? No, actually, so
shipping a vehicle to Australia is really, really
difficult. They have crazy quarantine and customs
and really strict rules on modifications and
all of that. So it was just way easier to fly
there and buy something. So we bought a gladiator
when we got there Yeah, spent a year and a half
around in the gladiator and then just sold it
before we left. So it was just purely for the
trip So between the the gladiator and the JL
because they're you know, they're pretty similar.
Which one would you prefer? I think it really
depends on like a million factors like, do you
have a family? Are you looking to do more wheeling
or more kind of camping? You know, do you want
to have a comfortable living setup or do you
want to just sort of sleep in a ground tent?
I feel like it's, it's kind of personal preference
about how you want to travel and what kind of
trip you want to have. I don't, yeah, cause they're
two different things. They're built for different
purposes. Right. Yeah. The gladiator was shocking
though. Like the first time I took it off road,
I scraped the belly. And I've never scraped the
belly in any of my Wranglers. I was like, oh,
that's really interesting. And then the departure
angle as well, I definitely like hit it more
than a few times on stuff where I was like, oh,
that's really weird. Like it hangs over the rear
wheels a lot further than a Wrangler does. Yeah,
the wheelbase on the Gladiator, I don't remember
how much longer that is than a JLU, sorry. Yeah,
it's 116 inches versus a hundred and... I can't
remember for a gladiator. I'm pulling it up real
quick. 137. Yeah. So yeah, that's I mean, there's
a lot more breakover angle there than for sure.
Yeah, I I wheeled a crew cab long bed one ton
F350 for a while. Yep. That is it's a whole different
world, man. Going back down to something shorter
like the forerunner was so so convenient. Yeah.
Yeah, and it but it's funny though because I'm
sure the f -150 I mean you can carry way more
stuff and you can be a lot more You can be a
lot more comfortable in camp or you know You
could stay remote for a lot longer because you
just have way more water and food and all that
stuff, right? So then it's like, you know, are
you on a wheeling trip for just a day or two?
Then it's like a forerunners incredible, but
it's more like yeah If you're trying to get remote
and stay out in the wilderness the f -150 is
probably the better choice Right. Yeah. Yeah
Course you don't have that problem with your
jail now that things kind of built perfectly
Yeah, the jail it's gonna be really really hard
to let it go if we didn't have our little girl
I would keep that thing until forever until until
I died of old age It's I dreamed always of having
like a kind of a Libyan overland vehicle that
has everything you need It's really a little
apartment on wheels and because it's built on
because it's built on a Rubicon Wrangler I have
pushed it hard in the dunes in Tunisia like in
the Sahara and I gave up long before the Jeep
did. I actually, the dunes were so steep on the
way up and the way down, I started getting seasick
and was like, this is ridiculous. I don't know.
And we were planning on doing it for like eight
hours to get into this really remote spot. And
it was, it was just nuts. So yeah, that Jeep
will go more places than I'm willing to take
it. Yeah, there's a picture. I think it's goose
gear. They did your interior or something. They
did. Yeah. So there's a picture of, I think it's
you laying on the floor in the back with the
roof off. And the amount of space that there
is in that thing is just crazy. It's pretty wild.
We just had three adults in it and it's comfortable.
It's like spacious. It's no problem at all. We
don't see rigs built like that here. We see just
a four rudder with stuff strapped to it. It's
such a bizarre thing when you spend kind of 24
hours in the back of it or you cook dinner and
then you go to bed and you get up in the morning
and you basically forget that you're just in
a Wrangler. It's so bizarre. And everyone who
sees it, when they look at it, they're like,
man, that's a cool Gladiator. And I'm like, no,
it's not. It's shorter than that. And everyone's
like, what do you mean? How is that possible?
Yeah, it's quite a bizarre thing to have so much
living space when it's only a Wrangler. It kind
of goes to show. You could do the same thing
on a forerunner. You could do it on many. You
do it on many vehicles and have really workable
living space. And you don't have to have like
a full size pickup. You don't have to have an
F -350. Yeah, it's I love where your spare tires
at, by the way. Yeah, that up on the roof like
that, it wasn't our first choice, but it turned
out to be the best choice for 50 different reasons.
And with it, you know, would it be into the same
height as the the cap? There it probably offers
quite a bit of protection there. I don't know
how tight of spaces you get into I know here
you'd be scrubbing everywhere. Mm -hmm Well,
probably the tightest space I ever got it into
was a 20 -foot shipping container when I shipped
it to Iceland and it fit by about an inch height
wise and And about six or five inches on each
side So it was it was tight, but we designed
it to fit like that for that reason and that's
it was exactly like perfect Yeah, 20 is 20 foot
the cheapest shipping container it is yeah Yeah,
say cuz I know There's someone else who they
ship theirs across the Bering and gap down, you
know down south Yeah, and they were saying they
were getting they had two cars in a 20 foot container
two cars in a two cars in a 40 footer is really
common Yeah, yeah, you're right a 40 footer.
Yeah, and they cut cut the price down quite a
bit doing it that way exactly yeah that's really
common and that's what i did on the way back
from europe actually it went in the container
with a really big built -out land cruiser and
then that was really nice because when you get
a 40 foot container you can get it with a higher
roof and then so the the door is higher and then
it's easy you just drive it straight in you don't
have to worry about the height yeah that's how
i know i'm going all over the place um how does
the uh How does the Jeep handle now compared
to when you had the, you know, just had it as
a Jeep? It's definitely heavier. You can definitely
feel the weight moving around. I've got AVs two
and a half XT suspension. So it's got the Bilstein
8100 remote reservoir shocks and it's got AVs
high capacity springs, which are designed like
to carry lots of weight. So it does really well,
but it's heavier for sure. And you can yeah,
you can feel it moving around behind you. So
I think the number one thing is you air down
your tires a little bit more to try and make
it smoother than it would be otherwise And it
definitely go a little bit slower than I probably
would if it was just a stock Jeep Yeah, and part
of that too is because you just don't want to
beat up everything that's inside You know the
fridge and the induction cooktop and kind of
all of your gear even my laptop and my cameras
and my drone and all of that stuff It doesn't
really just want to get beaten around in the
back So it's like if I drive a little slower
and a little more carefully all that stuff's
going to last a lot longer. How is the eco diesel
treated you? Because I've heard a lot of horror
stories and I've heard a lot of people that love
them. So I think hands down, the eco diesel is
the best engine Jeep have ever put in a Wrangler
by a mile. There isn't even a comparison. The
only caveat on that is the reliability aspect
where because of all the emission stuff, it does
seem like after 100 ,000 miles or 200 ,000 miles.
they can definitely have some reliability concerns.
And so, you know, I haven't had it for that long,
so I can't really speak to it. But in terms of
how it drives, so my Gladiator had the 3 .6 with
the eight speed auto. And at 70 miles an hour,
it would kick down to fourth gear and just like
rev to the moon. It was it was underpowered for
what it was. This eco diesel, the highest mountain
pass in Canada. at 70 miles an hour it will just
sit in eighth gear at 1500 rpm and not even care
it doesn't even slow down at all you can overtake
every single other car because they're all gearing
down and revving the diesel just doesn't care
with 420 pounds of foot torque sorry 420 foot
pounds of torque it'll it'll just drive up anything
without even noticing it doesn't care so that's
yeah it's it's easily the best engine i've ever
had in a four -wheel drive Like not even, it's
not even worth talking about any of the other
ones I've ever had. So, where you're at in the
BC, you've got pretty strict emissions over there,
right? Same. So you couldn't get away? Same as
yours. You couldn't get away with deleting, is
it? Yep. So you can get away with deleting everything?
You can, yeah. Just extending their life? Yeah,
you can if you want to. It's expensive though,
by the time you buy like the straight exhaust
and you get the computer tuned and all that stuff.
But yeah, plenty of people around here run deleted.
Yeah, I I know different parts of Canada have
it like here, you know different places have
stricter rules Yes, I know if I drove any of
my cars in California, they'd be pretty upset.
Yeah, totally. I Actually, I had a 96 Cobra that
I drove up the coast of California that was turboed,
you know No exhaust whatsoever, and I probably
got pulled over a good 10 or 15 times But it
was licensed in Arizona, so they couldn't give
me a ticket for that's funny Yeah, man, I I Wish
Gavin could have got on tonight. He's more of
our overland guy. Okay, so he'd have all these
over He'd be asking you what kitchen or you know,
how your kitchen setup works? Which I guess we
could get into that for sure. What fridge do
you have in your jail? It's got a Dometic 50
liter and it's an upright fridge, which is I've
never done that before so instead of the chest
freezer which kind of fridge it always makes
you feel like you're camping you know because
you have to kind of dig out 10 things to get
to the thing you want in the jl the camper it
feels way more like a little apartment it's like
a bar free like a mini bar fridge in a hotel
where you can just reach in and grab whatever
you want easily so the whole the whole feel when
you're inside actually is that you're in like
a tiny little apartment and everything you need
is right there in front of you and it it doesn't
feel like camping at all actually and it's pouring
rain or freezing cold or snowing, it doesn't
matter. You turn on the diesel heater, you've
got the induction cooktop, you can put on some
music and just be like, we could be anywhere
in the whole world right now and we're warm and
dry and comfortable. It's kind of shocking and
it almost feels like cheating or it feels like,
hmm, are we even camping right now or is this
something else? I'm not sure. So with that, with
that being upright, does your stuff get bounced
around in there a lot more? It got bounced around
a little bit more. You had to be a bit careful,
like what you put in the door or if you like
wedge. If it was close to empty, it was a problem.
You'd open the door and there'd be an avalanche
of everything falling out. But as long as it
was pretty full, everything would just kind of
be like jammed in there and it wouldn't move
around. And you've got an induction cooktop.
That's not a 12 volt induction, right? It'd have
to go through an inverter. Correct, yeah. So
it's a big, it's on a 3 ,000 watt inverter, and
I've got 200 amp hours of lithium batteries and
then 600 watts of solar panels. So it uses a
massive amount of power, which is kind of its
downside, but it is unbelievably fast, silent,
and you never ever have to think about filling
up gas bottles or dealing with fittings or connections.
It's just simple and like it just works every
day. It kind of blew me away how nice it was
and I'll definitely do it on the next vehicle
for sure. And it looks pretty. Yeah, it just
looks like slick. But again, it doesn't really
look like camping, does it? Like camping is always
like, you know, you try to light your gas burner
and you try not to burn yourself and it's in
the wind and it's tricky. And yeah, it feels
less like camping and more like, yeah, being
in an Airbnb almost. Where is your bed in that
that cabin? Because when I see it, You know,
all the pictures I see, I don't see a bed. I
just see your little couch. It's hard to take
pictures of the bed. So in the photos you're
looking at, the bed is currently stowed and it's
like right up against the roof when the roof
is popped up. And then when it's time to go to
sleep, you manually lower the bed down. It's
an aluminum platform with wooden slats and it
lowers down and it kind of sits like just above
the kitchen bench. And it's basically a queen
size bed. And then there's a little gap at the
front so you can climb up into it So you kind
of when you're inside you're either in like sleeping
mode or you're in like stand up and walk around
inside mode Does your bedding stay on that platform
or do you have to unmake the bed and the bedding
stays up there? Yeah, that's awesome. Yep. So
it's super fast when you when it's time to go
to bed It's like two minutes and you're ready
to climb up Yeah, that was kind of a design goal
of mine so that When you when you're on a long
trip, I really feel like the things that you
do every day They start to be annoying or they
start to like use up too much of your time You
know if it takes you 20 minutes to get your stove
out and set it up and then cook breakfast and
then 20 minutes to put it away again You're gonna
get to the point where you're like cooking breakfast
is a pain in the neck I'm just gonna go and buy
breakfast and then when a few of those things
start to add up Suddenly you like you're spending
too much money every day and then your trip is
over because you run out of money So I try really
hard to make the things that I do every day and
the things that will save me money. I want those
to be the easiest and like the most convenient
so that I'm I will do them every day. Yeah, that
I mean, you can see that looking through the
whole thing, anything where it would be hard
to get to something, even your storage stuff
is set up where it's easy to grab whatever you
need. Yeah. The amount of planning that had to
have gone into this truck, man. It's like you've
done this a couple times or something. Well,
and not only me, but actually the guy who designed
and built the actual box camper, his name's Michael
Fuchs. He used to work for NASA. He's a literal
genius. He has also, he built a Unimog that it
kind of looked the same, just like four times
bigger. He had a Pinzengauer, he had an LMTV,
he's had a couple of Jeeps. So he... Wait, what's
this guy's name? His name is Michael Fuchs. WabiSabioverland
on Instagram. He's a fascinating guy and he actually,
he started working on this in 2019, this Jeep
camper idea of like, what if I could build a
Unimog but build it smaller was basically his
idea. Because Unimogs are so big, he learned
the lesson. They're actually not very useful.
So he and his wife, they drove it all the way
up to the Arctic Circle and they were like exploring
all of Alaska. and they kind of realized that
they'd like get remote and they'd see a cool
gravel road or you know down across a creek into
some beautiful camping spot and they're like
if we get the Unimog stuck down there literally
nobody on earth can pull us out because the only
vehicle big enough and capable enough is another
Unimog so in a weird way he said they got less
remote in the Unimog than they used to get in
their little two -door Wrangler and then so on
the drive home from Alaska he really started
thinking about could you build something as comfortable
and nice as the Unimog, but build it on a smaller
vehicle so that it's useful? And that's how he
came up with this whole Jeep camper idea. And
he's the one who did the years of planning and
design and engineering to actually make it happen,
to make it real. This Unimog is real. Yeah. The
photo of his wife, Yvonne, when she's inside,
there's a photo. And on two different occasions,
I've sent him an email that says, wait, Is that
a photo inside the Unimog or is that like an
apartment that you rented? Because I can't tell.
It's so big inside, it's crazy. Yeah, this thing
is just... I couldn't imagine having that much
space in a vehicle. But yeah, it's a cool scene
because I've seen you go from a TJ. I didn't
know about the JK, so... I guess that one doesn't
count. But seeing the TJ, then the JL, it's like
I've watched you grow as an overlander without
ever meeting you. Well, actually, if you go through
all the steps, it's like the literal Jeep progression
of like two -door TJ, four -door JK, gladiator,
now four -door JL. It's like I've gone through
the whole family of kind of like wranglers that
exist and like learned lessons from each of them
about like, what do I prefer and what works well?
You know, some of them are better in some aspects
and some of them are better in other aspects.
So, aside from, you know, if it was just you
as a single guy, would you still prefer a four
-door over the two -door? Depends where I'm going.
It depends how long I'm going for. It depends,
like, how much fuel do I have to carry? How much
water do I have to carry? All those kind of questions
actually matter more. Where am I going to sleep
is kind of... I feel like a two -door is tricky
because you kind of have to sleep on the ground.
I don't think that you can really sleep in or
on a two -door. Nah, it can be done. Yeah, but
you know, let's say if the trip's a couple of
years long, you're not gonna do it every night
for a couple of years. And the two -door as well,
it's hard to carry enough fuel to get nice and
remote. You know, you can't stick an extended
fuel tank underneath it. So I feel like the four
door, the one I had in Africa, that was a really
good sweet spot of like, it's still pretty nimble
and goes a lot of places. But I, you know, I
had extra fuel, I had a water tank underneath
it, I had enough food and all of that stuff to
go easily a week at a time. Which, yeah, I loved
that thing. It was amazing. It took me places
on earth I never dreamed I would ever get to.
You know, wake up in the morning and there's
elephants next to the Jeep or giraffes and Yeah,
I got it stuck in the mud in the Congo and rolled
it in Uganda and like slept in it when I had
malaria and like there's so much of my life is
kind of wrapped up in that vehicle and that adventure
that it's it's hard to not think of it as the
best vehicle I've ever had Yeah No, I uh that
makes sense, you know for having the extra you
Your JL. Do you have an extended fuel tank on
that or do you carry? I actually do neither because
it's the eco diesel on the entire trip We just
did our average was 24 miles a gallon. Oh My
god. Yep. So It only has an 18 and a half gallon
tank. The stock tank on the diesel is a bit smaller
than the gas tank But with that mileage, it was
plenty. We didn't need to carry any extra And
then the JK, did you have extended on that? The
JK, I had an AV fuel caddy on the back tire carrier.
So that was an extra 10 gallons on top of the
like 22 gallon stock tank. The furthest I ever
did, I ride on 600 miles in the Congo. They had
a huge fuel shortage. They'd turned off all their
refineries and I couldn't buy fuel anywhere.
So yeah, I drove 600 miles kind of on the fuel
I could carry. and then drove into the capital
city on fumes parked and it was like that's it
there's no fuel you're stuck here now yeah that's
you know here in the states we don't really have
to worry about carrying fuel or even most of
canada you don't have to worry about carrying
fuel because you're within at least 10 miles
of a gas station all the time yeah but you get
out into you know Africa, South America, that
could go away pretty quick. Yeah, you have to
plan ahead a bit more or you have to think carefully
about where you're trying to get to and then
what's it like. Same in Australia, actually.
Australia, I carried the most fuel I ever had.
At one point, I had like 80 gallons on the Gladiator
to drive. That was the world's most remote road.
We drove 1 ,050 miles through a desert without
seeing another person or vehicle or anything
like in the middle of it. in the middle of the
desert in Western Australia. It's called the
Canning Stock Route, if you want to look it up.
It's really famous as the world's most remote
four -wheel drive track. That sounds like a great
time. It was the most intense, epic wilderness
four -wheel drive trip of my life. And I went
with my dad, actually, which was really rad.
We had an amazing time. The stars were incredible.
The kind of intensity, I had this feeling that
we were really far from the world. Like if anything
went wrong, we had to solve it ourselves or we
were going to hit like the satellite beacon and
call a helicopter. There's no there's no other
option. There's no way to like walk out or anything.
How do you how do you sleep while you're in Australia?
Did you sleep in the rig or did you do the Australian
thing? We did exactly that. Yeah, we got swags.
We got a big queen swag. And I convinced my partner,
Katie, that we should do it the traditional way,
which was which was really fun. I'm glad that
we did it. We won't do it again We are our main
camping tent is a 23 -0 outbreak 15 very cool.
Yeah So I swags are pretty much all we use now.
They're just so convenient Yeah, they're super
easy just to be able to like roll it out on the
dirt and like one minute lady place to sleep
All the beddings inside it's ready to go at the
second. Yeah, I mean doesn't matter if it's no
no in Australia It just made so much sense with
the weather over there like it's pretty warm
most evenings you just sleep with the bug screen
you don't have to worry about the rain it was
it was it was pretty nice to be out like under
the stars every single night for a year and a
half yeah we had some incredible nights too where
like dingos would come right up to the swag or
you know you'd hear animals in the night it was
really rad only one night we had ants get in
there and crawl all over us and that was less
fun yeah we uh Australia is definitely on my
bucket list Too bad it's so hard to get dogs
over there because I'd love to take my healers
back Yeah, no, it's it's super hard to get animals
into Australia. So a lot of people don't bother
They like give away their dog or whatever if
they're moving there Do you uh, do you have any
pets now? No, I've resisted pets because it'll
be too hard to travel with them and so I you
know crossing all the borders and dealing with
plane flights and all of that is like If I can
not have pets, I'll try not to. Yeah, that makes
sense. I don't think I could not have pets at
this point, but yeah, I've had my blue healer,
I adopted her in Arizona and I've had her almost
10 years now. And it would be so hard to not
have that. Yeah, there's such incredible dogs
where they have such a strong personality. So
much so. I have so many good memories of like
all of our family friends had blue healers. And
we had a Kelpie, which is like a purebred Australian
sheepdog. And so just, yeah, real memories of
like Aussie sheepdogs. They're a special thing
for sure. But all right, man, we are about to
hit our hour. So we can call it here. So to all
the listeners, it's been great talking to you.
Dan, it's been awesome talking to you. Thanks,
Alex. It's been a lot of fun. In the future,
I'll have to get back with you, because I want
to know about your next trip. I'll have to figure
it out. I haven't locked anything in. It's all
in the planning stages right now. That's awesome.
Alright man, well we will talk to you later.
Thanks Alex, appreciate it. Have a good one.