WEBVTT

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I owe you guys a huge apology. This was supposed

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to be a two -parter episode. You were supposed

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to get part one back on Thursday. Since I've

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been back from Leatherwood, my life has been...

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You don't even understand. I've been working

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a lot. Friday night, my internet went out, so

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I haven't been able to finish the editing or...

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do the upload because we use, we use some online

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tools for editing, not a whole lot, but enough

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that it made editing a lot harder and not real

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easy to accomplish. And even if I did, the editing

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would be done and I couldn't upload it. So, um,

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yeah, so you're getting a two hour episode. It's

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a rarity here at botches for you to get an episode

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this long, but hope you guys enjoy it. Uh, Leatherwood

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was fun and you'll hear all about it coming up.

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Welcome to Botches Off -Road. Join us as we talk

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about everything from gear reviews to trail stories,

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tank camping to rock landing, and all things

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to do with the outdoors. We got a great one today.

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Me and Mark and Duncan and... What, half of the

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botches went out to Leatherwood? Half or so?

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Half. I'd say half. Yeah, about half. Yeah, about

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half. About half the botches went out to Leatherwood

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with Mitten State Tours. We had an absolutely

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wild time. Leatherwood is a park that I think

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everybody should take the time to go to. It was

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fantastic. Especially if you're on this side

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of the Mississippi because we don't have anything

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like it over here. Nope. And we already lost

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Gavin. We're a minute in and Gavin's already

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gone. He's back. Everything's fine. Whoopsies.

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So we started, we left on Thursday. Wednesday

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night. Wednesday night. Fuck, that's right. Yeah.

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I'm glad we left when we did because we would

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have gotten there so late on Thursday if we hadn't.

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Yeah. And we are driving in the cool, rainy breeze

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and still having overheating problems on the

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way down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what happened there?

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That'd be a Duncan. It started with Duncan, man.

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Did we not check our fluids before we left, or

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was it you guys getting plugs, or what? Everyone's

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fluids were good when we left. Yep. I don't know.

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I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure what's

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all up with Duncan's ride yet. I don't think

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I've heard of him. I know Mark's isn't a thermostat

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issue because we took that out. Mine was definitely

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not a thermostat issue, but that was for a different

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day. What was? No, we're talking about it. This

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is where we're talking about it. Yeah. I thought

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we were going to wait a little bit before we

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talk about my issue. Now we can get into that

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later. Because you're talking about days. So

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next up. So we're on Wednesday, Thursday morning,

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somewhere in there. Yep. We're driving through

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Indiana on. 31. And it's raining really hard,

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and it's dark. And, you know, occasionally I

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would just message back, hey, Duncan, how's the

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trailer looking? So I message back, and I'm like,

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hey, Duncan, how's the spare tire looking? Is

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it still there? And he goes, oh, yeah, it's looking

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great. Two minutes later, oh, God, it's gone.

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It's just gone. The whole carrier, everything,

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it's gone. Yeah. I don't know how we got away

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without him getting hurt from that because there's

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no way he, I don't know how he avoided it. I

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don't know where it went. It looks like it was

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ripped straight up off the trailer, but our entire

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spare tire and carrier came off the trailer and

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somehow didn't hit Duncan, who was right behind

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it. Yeah, that was wild. Yeah, so. If any of

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our listeners see a spare tire carrier on Marketplace

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that looks similar to the pictures they've seen

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on Instagram, let us know. And may or may not

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currently have a Needle Grappler 35 mud drain

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on it. Yeah. They might have separated them.

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Yeah. So, yeah, that sucked. I should have been

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assigned about the tire carrier being wrong.

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Because we had to ratchet strap it. Yeah, that

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should have been an indicator. Well, no, because

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what we had to ratchet strap was the actual tire

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to the carrier because it was a little loose.

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But that shouldn't have made the entire carrier

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come off the trailer. Do you think the momentum

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from the tire travel up and down was enough to

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snap it if you hit some bumps or what? It definitely

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happened while you guys were driving on like

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an overpass or a bridge. Because you know you

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hit those parts on the bridge, your truck kind

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of jumps a little when you're going on the highway.

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I don't think we went over any overpasses. No,

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yeah, but like on the highway or the interstate

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when you go onto the bridges, they're always

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raised a little bit. There was that moment I

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got really squirrely. I think that's when it

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fell off. I think so, too. Boom. Where was that?

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We checked there. A turn overpass? Oh, yeah,

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dude. That's in someone's windshield. Was it

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an overpass? Yes. Because we went into this turn,

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and the overpass was in the mid -turn. Oh, so

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we were looking in the wrong spot. It's down

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under the overpass. Yeah, the hobos are like,

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motherfucker, they killed - They killed Paul.

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They killed our trash can. Like, the entire time

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going down, there was a couple times where it

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got a little squirrely. I'm like, yeah, that's

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average. But that one incident was really squirrely.

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So I'm wondering if that's what had happened

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was that moment. Well, real quick, let's take

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a quick break from this conversation. What is

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everybody drinking? An alcohol, sadly. Fresh

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2025 La Terre Frenchiola. That's French for water

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from 2025. Nice. I got Mountain Dew's Summer

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Freezy flavor. I found in the back of my fridge

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the very last El Chavo. Don't you want to save

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that for a bad day? Today is a bad day. Yo, by

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the way, for any of you Mountain Dew drinkers,

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Little Caesars has like a mango Mountain Dew.

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Really, really good. I'm not a fan of mango flavored.

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And then he drinks El Chavo. Oh, okay. Sorry.

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Mountain Dew mango is different, though. I think

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this is the only time this has been released,

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I think. What's the KFC one? There's definitely

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been mango. Yeah. Because they said it was exclusive.

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It was the KFC Yellow Lightning. Yeah. Mellow

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Yellow? No. No, Yellow Lightning was a Mountain

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Dew flavor for KFC that was mango. Oh. That's

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what I thought. Yeah, no, this was like a whole

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different thing. Very orange dye, and it stains

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your tongue and everything, so I never really

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drank it. It was very sweet. Oh, like high C.

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All right. Well, we're off to drinks now. Back

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to Thursday morning. All right, so you lost a

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tire. Yeah, tire carrier, it just exited the

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chat. No idea where it's at. It's gone. Well,

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at least you didn't appear with it and then lose

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it because that'd be even more embarrassing than

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losing it before you even got there. Right. Somewhere

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between South Bend and the first BP and McDonald's

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on 31. Yeah, and driving back, I was doing like

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45 in the... in the left lane with my ditch lights

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on, scanning for this tire. Oh, I had mine on

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too, trying to scan it. Very unfortunate. Yep.

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She gone, man. She gone. Oh, yeah. That just

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means it's something to upgrade. After that,

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you know, we stopped. We looked at it. We're

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like, son of a bitch. And then we got back on

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the road. We made it. Did we make it into Kentucky

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before we had to stop for Duncan's overheating

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problem? No. Jesus. So we had to stop for like

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an hour somewhere. I don't even remember where.

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It was a really weird gas station with like all

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of these statues everywhere, like wizards and

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dragons. Bigfoot. And Bigfoot. It was weird.

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Like a tourist trap? Not. It was just a normal

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gas station with statues. It was probably Medusa's

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lair, to be honest. I think we were still in

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Indiana when that happened. That tracks. Yeah,

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right. So we stopped, and Mark and Alan took

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like an hour nap while we sat and waited for

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Duncan's truck to cool down, and then we jacked

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it up and we burped it. For the first of many

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burps. Mm -hmm. Because Duncan had decided to

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flush his radiator just before we left. Oh, that's

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- Don't ever do that. I didn't realize he did.

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Okay. Don't ever do that before a big road trip.

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Terrible idea, guys. Yeah, what? And he didn't

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burp it before? He thought he did. Honestly,

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burping isn't the problem. We had issues with

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it all weekend. Everyone's trucks but mine were

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overheating all weekend long. What the heck,

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guys? Yeah, you know when Alex's truck isn't

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low on braking that there's something going on.

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No, it's just that I finally fixed all the issues.

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God. God. Freaking idiots. So then we got back

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on the road after that whole fiasco. Thank God

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for the tool trailer, by the way. That thing

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got used so much. It got used so much. A godsend

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for a lot of us. So we get back on the road and

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now we do make it into Kentucky. And at this

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point, like it was a joke between me and Kaylin

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that every like 20 minutes we hear someone over

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the radio. My truck's hot. So. It was bad. So

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then we get into Kentucky, and Mark's like, my

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truck's at like 235. Jesus Christ. I didn't have

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overheating until way later, though. This is

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when we're in Kentucky. Yeah, not at first, though.

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Okay, I'm sorry. Leatherwood is when I had the

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major issue. Did I miss anything in between?

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I don't think you did, but. Yeah, exactly. It

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was a nice, calm, dry, short trip. Short trip.

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Then we get to Leatherwood, and we're climbing

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some mountains. We go and check in at their little

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station. Everything's fine. We start climbing

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the first mountain, and I mean almost immediately,

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the minute our tires hit dirt. My truck's hot.

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What temperature was it down there, 80s? Yeah.

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80s? Yeah. Hotter than it's been around here?

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2 ,000 feet above sea level, too. Yeah. Yeah,

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trucks weren't used to it. And climbing. And

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climbing. Climbing's the problem. And the longest

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haul with trailer for my truck. Yeah, I don't

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think that caused it. I didn't think so either.

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You didn't have issues until we got there. Yeah,

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it's probably elevation. And not even elevation,

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but change in elevation. So as you're climbing

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a hill, you're not going fast, but you're exuding

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more RPM, which causes the truck to then get

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warm. So we're going up the hill and we're like

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the last turn before a camp. And Mark just stops

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because his truck's too hot. And I keep going.

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I was ready to be at camp and like see what all

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our sleeping situations were and all that. So

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I kept going. It was like a quarter of a mile

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from where they were to camp. Not even. It was

00:12:56.669 --> 00:12:58.950
like 500 feet. It was like right around the corner.

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I know. So I'm up there. I'm already getting

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my tent off the roof and everything. And I hear

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over the radio, which, mind you, they watched

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where I went, right? Like they could easily see

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where I turned. I don't think Duncan was paying

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attention. I hear over the radio, did you go

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through all those rocks? And I'm like, or no,

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how do we get there? And I'm like, you turn right

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and go. And he goes, well. I don't think the

00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:30.970
trailer can get through there. And as he's saying

00:13:30.970 --> 00:13:35.990
this, I'm looking at built to, what was it, broke

00:13:35.990 --> 00:13:39.370
to built or busted to built. I'm looking at busted

00:13:39.370 --> 00:13:44.049
to built dually with a car hauler, right? So

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I know that our little off -road trailer can

00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:50.870
make it up this hill. So I hop in the truck.

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I go get him. He wanted to go straight through

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the playground. The trailer was not going through

00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.340
the playground. So it wasn't that. It was the

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trail directly across from the entrance, I think,

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which is the Pack Your Lunch or whatever it was.

00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:11.500
The little Rock Creek. I think that was the Rock

00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:15.500
Creek obstacle trail for that one. The one that

00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:18.799
he was talking about, it was the playground.

00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:26.009
Okay. So you get to camp. You guys get everyone

00:14:26.009 --> 00:14:28.970
finally to camp and then, I mean, camp pretty

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smooth as far as getting us set up once you got

00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:33.750
there or what? Yeah, it took me like two and

00:14:33.750 --> 00:14:35.730
a half minutes, three minutes, something like

00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:40.190
that. Oh, okay. Yeah. Did you guys eat that night?

00:14:42.250 --> 00:14:46.110
What did we eat? I think that night's the night

00:14:46.110 --> 00:14:50.450
we had walking tacos. No. Steak. It was steak.

00:14:51.470 --> 00:14:56.179
Nice. So pretty eventful, uneventful night as

00:14:56.179 --> 00:14:59.320
far as that goes. What about next morning? We

00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:03.879
did a little late night trail ride. Oh, did you?

00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:08.379
Yeah. Yeah. How'd that go? Give me one second.

00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:10.299
I'm getting to a point where I can tell you trail

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numbers. Okay. So the trail that Duncan wanted

00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.860
to take the trailer on was called Welcome to

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the Jungle. That's right. And it's a playground.

00:15:24.049 --> 00:15:29.990
So we were actually camped on 103B, I want to

00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:34.750
say. Sounds about right. I didn't think it was

00:15:34.750 --> 00:15:36.429
B, though. I thought it was just the main trail.

00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.330
No, it was definitely... Give me a second. Yeah,

00:15:40.370 --> 00:15:43.250
it's 103B. Because if you go straight, you go

00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:45.289
into Welcome to the Jungle on 106, but if you

00:15:45.289 --> 00:15:47.870
turn right, you go on 103B. That's definitely

00:15:47.870 --> 00:15:51.269
where we were at. And then... Um, so we were

00:15:51.269 --> 00:15:53.049
camping right there in a little clearing that

00:15:53.049 --> 00:15:55.409
they made for us. Honestly, it was a beautiful

00:15:55.409 --> 00:15:59.529
campsite, um, mountainy, so not perfectly level,

00:15:59.629 --> 00:16:02.269
but you don't really want that in the mountains.

00:16:02.309 --> 00:16:04.210
Cause then when it rains, all the water sits,

00:16:04.250 --> 00:16:07.629
which even though they had lots of drainage,

00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:12.169
I will tell you, it got very muddy. Yes. Um,

00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.919
Oh, we actually did a trail before that night.

00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:22.159
Forgot about that because we went up the hill.

00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.600
That's where I was just getting to. Yep. So then

00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:30.799
we went up. After getting camp set up, we decided

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.200
to go explore a little bit. And right off of

00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.899
camp, there's a trail called 103B. It's the same

00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.039
trail camp is on, but it continues up the mountain

00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.269
a little bit. So we follow that up, and mind

00:16:43.269 --> 00:16:45.669
you, this is our first experience of trails at

00:16:45.669 --> 00:16:50.190
Leatherwood, right? It was like straight up.

00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:53.929
It's a blue trail. It was like straight up, straight

00:16:53.929 --> 00:16:57.789
up the hill on a ridge where you're looking down

00:16:57.789 --> 00:17:02.230
over like a 4 ,000 -foot drop -off, and you're

00:17:02.230 --> 00:17:05.309
just making these super tight turns where your

00:17:05.309 --> 00:17:07.809
tire is on the edge of the trail the whole way.

00:17:09.289 --> 00:17:13.970
Yeah. Wild. Yeah, it was very wild. We come around

00:17:13.970 --> 00:17:20.890
a corner, and we come up to 103E. Now, 103E is

00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:24.009
only special and worth being brought up because

00:17:24.009 --> 00:17:29.970
it was like an 86 -degree angle, like literally

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:33.670
straight up the mountain. And the backside of

00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:39.119
it, right, so you turn off a 103. And 103, directly

00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.339
to your right, is a 4 ,000 -foot drop -off. You

00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:44.500
turn to your left, and it's immediately like

00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:47.799
an 86 -degree angle. Yep. I don't know who the

00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.220
hell can go up this trail because it is just

00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:53.160
straight up with a drop -off right behind you.

00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.680
Yep. Those are the black ones, right? The black

00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.700
diamonds? Well, that one was a double red, but...

00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:02.940
Oh, I must be thinking of the other one. I'm

00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:05.059
thinking the part where there was two black diamonds

00:18:05.059 --> 00:18:06.839
and we went down the rest of the main trail.

00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:13.740
Yeah, that one is 103C and 103B. But yeah, I

00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:18.180
backed up 103C. It's marked a black trail. Not

00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:23.140
on Onyx, but at their site. A lot of the trails

00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:25.579
are not marked by Onyx, which is kind of annoying.

00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:31.380
Yeah, and not marked properly. Correct. So I

00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:34.980
backed up 103C to get out of the way, and honestly,

00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:37.559
it's marked a black trail. I did it backwards.

00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:44.259
It wasn't a problem. And then we finished out

00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:46.920
down 102 and just kind of took the main trail

00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:49.460
back to camp because Mark's truck was getting

00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:54.019
warm. That wasn't warm yet. Yeah, you were. No.

00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:57.180
That was the main reason we went back. Your truck

00:18:57.180 --> 00:18:59.259
was starting to get warm. You were well past

00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:02.720
the middle point. Not that day. Or was it Duncan's

00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.299
truck? No, it was your truck. I didn't have overheat

00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:10.180
until the next day. Whatever. Mark's truck overheated

00:19:10.180 --> 00:19:12.759
a lot. Duncan's truck overheated a lot. I'm not

00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:14.740
going to try and distinguish whose was whose.

00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:18.880
Someone's truck got hot. There you go. I think

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.839
we just went back to camp, but whatever. No,

00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:24.039
someone's truck got warm because I wanted to

00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.559
keep going, and we had to go back so that someone

00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.410
could figure out why their truck was warm. Doesn't

00:19:29.410 --> 00:19:34.690
matter. Oh, no, we burped Duncan. Okay. So then

00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:36.910
we get back to camp, and we burped whatever truck

00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:40.349
was warm. I'm not distinguishing anymore. We

00:19:40.349 --> 00:19:43.309
burped whatever truck was warm, and we just kind

00:19:43.309 --> 00:19:45.710
of chilled after that because we realized we

00:19:45.710 --> 00:19:51.529
might be in over our head. However, I wasn't

00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:54.930
ready to be done. So we ate dinner, and we went

00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:58.990
back out, and we took... Oh, this was the only

00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.829
day you really wheeled, isn't it? Yes. That's

00:20:01.829 --> 00:20:03.690
why I said I didn't have overheating the first

00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:06.349
day. I was just going into camp. I had issues.

00:20:07.650 --> 00:20:10.630
So we took, I don't even remember what trail

00:20:10.630 --> 00:20:14.250
we took. Let me figure that out real quick. Do,

00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:17.589
do, do, do, do. We took a trail, whichever one

00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:20.309
it was. I want to say 105, but I might be wrong.

00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:23.430
Yeah, yeah, because 105B was the easy trail.

00:20:23.569 --> 00:20:27.049
You're right. So we went down to 105, and we

00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:30.190
took 105 around, and then there's a short section

00:20:30.190 --> 00:20:35.210
of 105, and then it becomes 105B. Now, 105B is

00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:38.730
marked green, and we had decided to stick on

00:20:38.730 --> 00:20:40.809
green trails just to kind of get a feel for the

00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:44.569
park. So we get up to 105B, and it is just a

00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.160
straight. wet clay muddy hill like there's no

00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.819
no other way to put it like it was wild i drove

00:20:52.819 --> 00:20:57.539
right up it i had no issue neither mark or duncan

00:20:57.539 --> 00:20:59.640
could get their trucks to go up this hill yeah

00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.279
no idea why so they backed down and they continued

00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.599
on 105 and i continued on 105b because i saw

00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.500
that they meet up farther remind you 105b is

00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:15.769
marked green 105 is marked blue 105 should be

00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:18.430
marked green, and 105B should be marked blue.

00:21:18.950 --> 00:21:22.869
I went up probably six or seven more muddy, clay,

00:21:23.089 --> 00:21:27.529
messy hills before I came down. I was going to

00:21:27.529 --> 00:21:30.589
say, was this based off Onyx or no? Yeah, I'm

00:21:30.589 --> 00:21:34.150
basing it off Onyx. Yep. Which even there, the

00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.650
trail was marked green on the sign. I thought

00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:39.269
it was blue. No, they got those two backwards.

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.859
So then I come down the hill, meet back up with

00:21:42.859 --> 00:21:45.680
them, and we followed around 105, which turns

00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:50.299
into 104, I believe. And that was an awesome,

00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:55.119
awesome freaking trail. Yes. Then we went back

00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.440
to camp and, you know, sat around the fire for

00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:58.779
a little bit. No, we didn't even sit around a

00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:00.759
fire. We sat around and then went to bed. Yep.

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.250
All right. So now, Mark, you can talk about day

00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:09.009
number two so that I don't mess up when your

00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:13.529
truck overheated. Day number two, we had our

00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:15.349
driver's meeting first thing in the morning,

00:22:15.450 --> 00:22:20.230
which was not needed. Yeah. And they came around

00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:25.150
at like 8 .30 on a freaking minibike. Wake up.

00:22:25.210 --> 00:22:31.339
Everybody needs to get up. So we distinguished

00:22:31.339 --> 00:22:36.579
who was going what groups, which was hards, medium

00:22:36.579 --> 00:22:39.019
to hards, and easy. There was like two medium

00:22:39.019 --> 00:22:42.660
to hard groups, one easy group, and then one

00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:48.339
hard group, which was mostly the Jeeps. And let's

00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:50.779
be honest, the hard group and our medium hard

00:22:50.779 --> 00:22:53.240
group did the exact same freaking trails. Oh,

00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.940
100%. Same exact trails. And unfortunately, the

00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:01.039
easy group also did the same trails that day.

00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:03.940
Not all the same trails, because they didn't

00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:07.599
do any blacks. We did some blacks. Okay, sorry.

00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:11.960
The first day, the only ones that didn't was

00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.539
part of the main group that went out there and

00:23:14.539 --> 00:23:16.700
got stuck later, which we'll explain more later,

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:21.359
was the other medium hard group, because they

00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:25.329
never touched that trail that day. Yeah. Everyone

00:23:25.329 --> 00:23:29.950
else did. But we decided to go back, do the same

00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:31.890
trail we did the night before. We actually ended

00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:34.089
up going down a different route the first time,

00:23:34.089 --> 00:23:36.650
and we managed to loop back to the actual route.

00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:42.289
We had us guys, the botches, and then we had,

00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:45.890
what was the jeep? The orange jeep. Chris Ironside.

00:23:45.990 --> 00:23:49.009
Yep, that's right. He's really cool, his family.

00:23:49.009 --> 00:23:52.779
Oh, he is. He went with the cryptid hunt. He's

00:23:52.779 --> 00:23:55.380
the one that actually stayed all weekend with

00:23:55.380 --> 00:24:01.420
us. Yep. So we went back, tackled that hill.

00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:05.940
I got it up that time. And then after getting

00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.579
up and we're still climbing more hills, I started

00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:11.160
having more heating issues. Yeah, okay, that's

00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:16.960
where it's happened. Yep. So eventually... I'll

00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:20.940
let you take over now. So we take Mark back to

00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:27.349
camp. And what did we do first? Did we try burping

00:24:27.349 --> 00:24:31.609
your truck? Yes. Yeah, because you bent your

00:24:31.609 --> 00:24:36.609
license plate on the hill. I'm a true off -roader

00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:42.549
now. We tried burping Mark's truck, and it didn't

00:24:42.549 --> 00:24:45.450
really... It let some air out, but nothing crazy.

00:24:45.789 --> 00:24:48.069
And we hadn't done anything with it, so it didn't

00:24:48.069 --> 00:24:51.750
make sense that it needed burped. Yeah. So...

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.880
I mean, the only thing was that I added coolant

00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.859
the week before. Yeah, but that's not going to

00:24:57.859 --> 00:25:00.539
make it so it needs burped. No. So then we got

00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:03.220
headed out and we went out to the main road,

00:25:03.380 --> 00:25:05.920
which we were going to take, which is Kentucky

00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:11.619
Highway 699. Yep. And we got on the highway and

00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:15.940
we made it, I don't know, like not even out of

00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:18.259
Leatherwood yet. And Mark started complaining

00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:22.019
about his truck getting warm. Yep. At that point,

00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:24.599
I wasn't going to ruin everyone else's wheeling

00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.759
trip just to figure out Mark's problem. So I

00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.619
was like, Mark, can you make it back to camp?

00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:32.299
Can you do this on your own? And I sent him back.

00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:37.099
Yep. I feel bad because I didn't know what we

00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:41.380
were about to get into. Yeah. What did you guys

00:25:41.380 --> 00:25:43.900
do at camp? Let's let you do that, and then I'll

00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:45.579
get into the rest. We'll do that real quick.

00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.079
So I spent most of the day trying to diagnose

00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.619
what could be wrong. We went from thermostat.

00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:54.240
Oh, I think that was the other thing. Did we

00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.160
remove my thermostat that day or was it the following

00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.480
day? That was the next day. Okay. I was trying

00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.599
to remember. Yeah, you're right. So we were going

00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:04.359
through the list of what could be wrong. Worst

00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.740
case was a head gasket, which I really hope it

00:26:06.740 --> 00:26:12.990
wasn't. We got to tearing down and realized that

00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.210
my back of my radiator was packed full of mud

00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:19.509
for over the last year. It was just coated like

00:26:19.509 --> 00:26:22.789
almost two inches off the actual radiator. That's

00:26:22.789 --> 00:26:25.309
how badly coated it was. Holy shit, dude. Yeah.

00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:29.029
Didn't know about a radiator. Not the backside

00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:31.170
where the fan shroud is. The shroud covers it.

00:26:31.309 --> 00:26:37.829
Yeah. Oh, shit, dude. Yeah. So we spent. Almost

00:26:37.829 --> 00:26:40.329
two hours, because it's like an hour drive to

00:26:40.329 --> 00:26:42.630
get to the nearest town that has a car wash,

00:26:42.809 --> 00:26:46.509
which was another fiasco. Spent forever trying

00:26:46.509 --> 00:26:49.049
to find a car wash that actually worked or had

00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:55.109
a wand. Got that figured out. Not overheating

00:26:55.109 --> 00:26:57.230
the entire time getting there. Washed it out,

00:26:57.250 --> 00:26:59.049
went back, didn't have any issues. I was like,

00:26:59.089 --> 00:27:00.910
oh, I fixed my issue. It was just packed full

00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:04.349
and might have had to get clean. We got back

00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:06.839
and found the rest of them. Chilling at camp.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.160
And then they told me about their experience

00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:16.220
for the day. Yeah. So we had been told to take

00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:20.200
Trail 232 at a certain time, which is roughly

00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.680
the time that we were headed out that way. So

00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.940
we went out to Trail 232. Now, 232 is supposed

00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:35.589
to be just a green trail. Yeah. So, 232 was a

00:27:35.589 --> 00:27:39.869
green trail. Actually, Derek told us if we wanted

00:27:39.869 --> 00:27:42.990
it to be a little harder to take 232 into 233

00:27:42.990 --> 00:27:46.930
instead of turning at 233. Okay, that's good

00:27:46.930 --> 00:27:50.569
advice, right? So, we take 232. There's some

00:27:50.569 --> 00:27:53.390
hill climbs, nothing crazy. We get up to the

00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:55.970
top of the world, which is drop -dead gorgeous.

00:27:56.210 --> 00:28:00.250
Like, it's their top of the world, not the real

00:28:00.250 --> 00:28:02.289
top of the world. So, like, not that pretty,

00:28:02.369 --> 00:28:06.650
but. Mm -hmm. Still really pretty. And coming

00:28:06.650 --> 00:28:10.609
out of Top of the World is a very long hill climb.

00:28:11.950 --> 00:28:15.990
Very long. We went down it. So we go down the

00:28:15.990 --> 00:28:17.930
hill climb and come up to a set of stairs. We

00:28:17.930 --> 00:28:20.369
go down the stairs. I turn around, go back up

00:28:20.369 --> 00:28:22.789
the stairs, and then go down the stairs again.

00:28:23.029 --> 00:28:27.990
They were beautiful. We continue on, and roughly...

00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.569
I'd say almost at the halfway point of the trail,

00:28:31.690 --> 00:28:35.049
we run into the easy group who mind you was supposed

00:28:35.049 --> 00:28:37.589
to be done with this loop already. They were

00:28:37.589 --> 00:28:41.549
not supposed to be there anymore. So we run into

00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:44.170
them and we got, it's one lane. There's no way

00:28:44.170 --> 00:28:47.069
off the road. So we fiascoed and figured out

00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:50.750
a way to get them past us and talk to Derek a

00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:52.789
little bit. And he's like, man, we've been through

00:28:52.789 --> 00:28:57.640
like six tires, like. It's a mess down there.

00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:02.920
Good luck. It's really hard. And, you know, we're

00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.880
not scared. It sounds fun to us. But he had 15

00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.779
trucks, none of which, I mean, they were overlanders.

00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:11.539
They're not wheelers. They're not built for it.

00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.700
Yep. Yeah, I think that's the first disclaimer

00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:17.819
that you want to put out there. This is the easy

00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:22.660
group, which means they're not set up to do what

00:29:22.660 --> 00:29:27.980
Alex and Mark can do. disclaimer before alex

00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:30.619
tells you this path was easy and then he had

00:29:30.619 --> 00:29:33.880
no issues it was easy that's what i'm saying

00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:38.900
to degree and then overweighted yeah so like

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:42.000
one of them had an alumicab with a built -in

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.200
rooftop tent like mitchell mcpherson media yeah

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.660
yeah so i mean rigs that do not belong in tight

00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:52.619
quarters do not belong on rocks yeah and when

00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.529
we ran into him i'm like hey derrick you guys

00:29:55.529 --> 00:29:58.069
should turn around. Like you're not going to

00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.410
make it if you keep going. And he's like, oh,

00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.089
it can't be that bad. You have no idea what you're

00:30:04.089 --> 00:30:06.569
getting into. And I'm like, fair enough, you

00:30:06.569 --> 00:30:11.549
know? And so we continue on. And now at this

00:30:11.549 --> 00:30:13.910
point, we kind of, you know, they've gone past

00:30:13.910 --> 00:30:17.230
us and they've got, they probably had less than

00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:18.990
we did to do at this point. I think they only

00:30:18.990 --> 00:30:21.210
had like a mile of trail left or so. Like it

00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:25.720
wasn't much. So we continue on and we drop down

00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.539
into the creek, which, by the way, absolutely

00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:30.720
beautiful. We drove through a creek for like

00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.599
two miles. It was. Yeah. Oh, my God. I've seen

00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:35.599
some videos of that when Derek was researching.

00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.299
It looks gorgeous. Can't even put into words

00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:42.519
how pretty this place was. And as we're going

00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:44.859
through this creek, I realized they could not

00:30:44.859 --> 00:30:49.099
have turned around because they went down. a

00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:52.180
bunch of wet stairs. They went down wet waterfalls.

00:30:52.299 --> 00:30:55.099
They went down all the stuff that we were going

00:30:55.099 --> 00:30:58.259
up and it was no problem for us, but these guys

00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:01.240
had no clearance. Like the best route out of

00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.240
that was to go up the hill climb. That was hard.

00:31:05.619 --> 00:31:09.859
So we, uh, you know, we're playing in the Creek

00:31:09.859 --> 00:31:12.259
a little bit and all of a sudden it gets pitch

00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:15.019
black, like cannot see, had to turn lights on

00:31:15.019 --> 00:31:19.200
pitch black. And at this point we run into the

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:20.980
jeeps and we're like man a cloud must have went

00:31:20.980 --> 00:31:24.539
over the sun or something like this is wild remember

00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:27.740
we're in a creek in the bottom of a mountain

00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:32.140
valley yeah yeah so we're talking to the jeeps

00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:34.500
we're standing outside the trucks and all of

00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:40.119
a sudden we hear a loud crack boom as a tree

00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:43.299
comes running down the mountain directly at us

00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:48.819
like We were in a terrible spot as a thunderstorm

00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:55.140
hit. Yeah. So instead of hanging out and playing

00:31:55.140 --> 00:31:56.940
in the creek, which I could have done for hours,

00:31:57.019 --> 00:32:01.140
man, it was, it was beautiful. We start making

00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:05.519
our way out and a really funny moment. We come

00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.619
up to a waterfall and there's all these Jeeps

00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:10.519
parked in my way. And they're all, like, having

00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.039
a little bit of trouble getting up this waterfall,

00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.119
you know, and down it. And I just yell out my

00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.339
window, if all these jeeps could get out of my

00:32:19.339 --> 00:32:23.680
fucking way, I'd get out of this creek. I just

00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.660
drove up it without a problem. It's just, like,

00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.880
I hope someone got it on video because it was

00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:33.519
just so perfect. The whole scene was so funny.

00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:38.230
Yeah. So we meander through this creek, and then

00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:41.509
we come up to, at this point, we thought that

00:32:41.509 --> 00:32:43.589
there had been trees that fell down behind the

00:32:43.589 --> 00:32:46.410
jeeps blocking their way through the creek. And

00:32:46.410 --> 00:32:48.529
we kind of, you know, we drove over them, worked

00:32:48.529 --> 00:32:50.349
our way through them, and it was tight, but we

00:32:50.349 --> 00:32:53.910
got through it. Well, come to find out, all those

00:32:53.910 --> 00:32:55.990
trees had been there the whole time, and everyone

00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:59.130
else went around them. So we went through a harder,

00:32:59.230 --> 00:33:02.730
like, quarter mile of creek than no one else

00:33:02.730 --> 00:33:07.279
had been through that day. Yeah. So, I mean,

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:11.099
it was beautiful, man. We're talking stairs that

00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:13.140
are better than Marblehead with water running

00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:17.559
over them. Right. Really hard wheeling in that

00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:19.500
section. The rest of the creek was just meh.

00:33:19.539 --> 00:33:23.160
It was pretty. That was about it. Right. So then

00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.140
we get out of the creek. There's a couple more

00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:28.480
little hill climbs. Nothing crazy. And we come

00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:33.200
around to where 233 meets back up with 232. They're

00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:37.660
a drive, like a loop trail, you know? And I was

00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.700
expecting to at least see some Jeeps there, you

00:33:39.700 --> 00:33:42.339
know? Some Jeeps, maybe the other, the easy group,

00:33:42.460 --> 00:33:47.839
something. There's nobody. At this point, Duncan

00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:50.220
announces that his truck is overheating and is

00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:55.000
at 230, like 236. So we kind of stop. We let

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.190
his truck cool down for a little bit. Probably

00:33:57.190 --> 00:34:00.410
20 minutes of that. Then we got back on the trail,

00:34:00.529 --> 00:34:03.329
continued back to camp. And again, I'm expecting

00:34:03.329 --> 00:34:07.769
for all the other groups to be done, right? So

00:34:07.769 --> 00:34:10.889
we get back to camp around 5. We left around

00:34:10.889 --> 00:34:13.309
2 .30. So what's that, three hours, two and a

00:34:13.309 --> 00:34:16.590
half hours, somewhere in there? Yeah. Then Mark

00:34:16.590 --> 00:34:22.630
and Alan show up. And then we wait another six

00:34:22.630 --> 00:34:26.110
hours for the rest of the groups to come back.

00:34:26.650 --> 00:34:31.630
Yeah. They had ran out of gas. They had to winch

00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:34.610
almost all of these overland built rigs up that

00:34:34.610 --> 00:34:36.690
hill climb because none of them could do it.

00:34:36.849 --> 00:34:39.170
Well, yeah, I was just saying. And then plus

00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:41.829
with the thunderstorm and the rain hitting, that

00:34:41.829 --> 00:34:44.750
probably didn't help for a muddy clay hill climb

00:34:44.750 --> 00:34:47.030
that was already hard to begin with. That one

00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:49.469
wasn't muddy and clay. That one was just straight

00:34:49.469 --> 00:34:51.449
rock. That one wouldn't have been bad with the

00:34:51.449 --> 00:34:53.409
thunderstorm. And most of that thunderstorm was

00:34:53.409 --> 00:34:56.380
under their elevation point. Gotcha. Just say

00:34:56.380 --> 00:34:58.079
because, yeah, that would have been even worse

00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.139
at that point. So it wasn't that the hill climb

00:35:02.139 --> 00:35:05.300
was hard. It's just that they're not built for

00:35:05.300 --> 00:35:08.219
it. They're built for like a Sunday drive down

00:35:08.219 --> 00:35:12.320
a forest road and go camping. That's it. Which

00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.500
that's fine. That's awesome. That's a fun time.

00:35:15.699 --> 00:35:17.940
You're kind of underselling some of these vehicles.

00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.460
I mean, not all of them. They're just not built

00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:25.429
as stoutly as yours is for doing. bigger bigger

00:35:25.429 --> 00:35:28.210
stuff you know man and then i think some of it's

00:35:28.210 --> 00:35:32.289
an experience issue the majority of these rigs

00:35:32.289 --> 00:35:36.309
that were in the the easy group they're maybe

00:35:36.309 --> 00:35:40.130
an inch of lift they might have a rear locker

00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:44.849
maybe um and yeah there's an experience part

00:35:44.849 --> 00:35:47.869
to it too but the big thing is they're overloaded

00:35:47.869 --> 00:35:51.570
to hell i had nothing in my truck right my truck

00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:54.900
was the weight of a forerunner That's what I'm

00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.159
saying. I'm not saying that they're not impressive

00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:00.239
rigs. They're not well built. None of that. No,

00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:04.059
it was just the way it was like, they're not

00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:06.800
built for off -road. They're built for certain

00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.559
applications off -road. They're just not built

00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.699
for crawling like you do. They're not built for

00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:15.159
this terrain. That's better. It's just the way

00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.900
it's said it. It's how it's said. They're built

00:36:17.900 --> 00:36:22.329
for a standard. forest road in the daniel boone

00:36:22.329 --> 00:36:26.849
national forest which in michigan is like a blue

00:36:26.849 --> 00:36:34.929
trail so it's not like here where a forest road

00:36:34.929 --> 00:36:37.550
is nice and flat a forest road there is a hard

00:36:37.550 --> 00:36:42.329
trail here and that's more what they're built

00:36:42.329 --> 00:36:44.530
for which is fine i mean their trucks are cool

00:36:44.530 --> 00:36:47.639
and awesome But Derek took them into the worst

00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.719
place he could have. Like, they were so out of

00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.980
their depth. Well, I mean, he had no way of scouting

00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:56.179
it before either. No, he didn't. So, I mean,

00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.280
everyone went into these trails blind. I think

00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:04.340
it's funny. Oh, so we had this one group of ladies

00:37:04.340 --> 00:37:07.000
show up. I'm not going to release names or even

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.340
what they were driving. But I will tell you that

00:37:09.340 --> 00:37:12.199
they had the most capable vehicle for the terrain

00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:18.929
in that group. Like, very much so. But the driver

00:37:18.929 --> 00:37:22.530
of that vehicle had to pull over and cry several

00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:25.610
times because she was so overwhelmed with what

00:37:25.610 --> 00:37:28.010
was going on. Yeah. And they actually packed

00:37:28.010 --> 00:37:31.949
up and went home that day. Yeah. You'll have

00:37:31.949 --> 00:37:35.849
to tell me who it was off air. They didn't stick

00:37:35.849 --> 00:37:38.920
around for the rest of the week. Yeah. So, and

00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:41.559
it was funny. She's like, I've done a whole bunch

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:45.099
of trips in Tennessee and this is so much worse.

00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:50.480
Yeah. So it was funny. Not funny. It was funny.

00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.400
Let's be honest. I didn't like him. So it was

00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.599
funny. But yeah, dude, it was, it's a beautiful

00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.400
trail. The 232 to 233 loop. If you've got a vehicle

00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:05.079
that can do it comfortably, you should do it.

00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:09.170
I'm not going to recommend. a Tacoma with an

00:38:09.170 --> 00:38:12.690
Alua cab on it because that's way too much for

00:38:12.690 --> 00:38:15.769
this trail. Yeah. I don't... Was his four -wheel?

00:38:16.429 --> 00:38:19.070
Couldn't remember. Yeah. Yeah. All of them were

00:38:19.070 --> 00:38:20.210
four -wheel drive. Yeah. I couldn't remember.

00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:24.090
Oh, you know who it was? It was... What's the

00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:28.690
girl that's got the Tacoma? I forget. J .D.?

00:38:28.690 --> 00:38:31.050
J .D.'s is four -wheel drive. I thought she said

00:38:31.050 --> 00:38:34.110
hers was two -wheel because it was an SR5 or

00:38:34.110 --> 00:38:36.320
something. No, ours is a four -wheel. Ours is

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.960
a four -wheel, too. Mm -hmm. Someone, I'll have

00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.360
to double -check, but someone... I think Becker's

00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:44.019
the only one with a four -wheel. It's actually

00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:47.800
two -wheel drive right now. Yeah. Yeah, I'll

00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:49.780
have to double -check, because someone only had

00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:52.260
two -wheel drive that had a Tacoma, but it was

00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:56.019
pretty built. The trail that took us, like, two

00:38:56.019 --> 00:38:59.219
and a half, three hours took the Easy Group and

00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:03.039
the Jeeps. The Jeep's probably about six and

00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.179
a half hours because they got stuck behind the

00:39:05.179 --> 00:39:08.519
other group. The other group, it took them 12

00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:14.119
hours. And that, my friends, is why I don't wheel

00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:22.980
with 15 people most of the time. Beginners. Even

00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:26.079
so, I would hate a group of 15 trucks. That's

00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:27.820
just too much. Not all of them were beginners.

00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:33.139
No, not at all. Now, that being said, I don't

00:39:33.139 --> 00:39:35.519
think anyone in that group had any experience

00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:39.579
in mountains. I think that a lot of people came

00:39:39.579 --> 00:39:41.960
into this trip and just kind of jumped in without

00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:45.360
expecting it to actually be harder. Well, I mean,

00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:48.199
again, it was an easy trail. So what do you,

00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:52.239
from your experience, you know, as someone who

00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.539
off roads in Michigan, going on an easy trail

00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:58.219
is just that easy. So you have the, you don't

00:39:58.219 --> 00:40:00.760
have the experience. So Mark, you're saying there.

00:40:01.539 --> 00:40:04.059
experienced but they're experienced in michigan

00:40:04.059 --> 00:40:07.559
they're not experienced in other places so and

00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:09.800
then that's why you know overloaded vehicles

00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.880
that's why going into this trip me and brian

00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.880
had several times told people you know expect

00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:18.280
the green trails to be closer to a michigan blue

00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:23.460
or black because green to them is hard to most

00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:27.909
of michigan no To me, there was nothing that

00:40:27.909 --> 00:40:31.070
we did on a blue or a green trail was really

00:40:31.070 --> 00:40:34.190
all that hard. No. But I have the experience.

00:40:34.329 --> 00:40:36.469
I've done it before. Right. That's what I'm saying.

00:40:37.329 --> 00:40:42.309
It's hard hearing this in the way because I know

00:40:42.309 --> 00:40:46.489
Alex has a shitload of experience in places that

00:40:46.489 --> 00:40:50.750
aren't Michigan. So it's like I hope people understand

00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:53.269
that he's not like shitting on you. The way that

00:40:53.269 --> 00:40:55.070
he's talking, he's just trying to explain the

00:40:55.070 --> 00:40:57.989
situation that it's not. It wasn't what people

00:40:57.989 --> 00:40:59.530
thought it was going to be. They didn't have

00:40:59.530 --> 00:41:01.710
quite the right experience and they weren't ready

00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:05.389
for things how they were. I'm not shitting on

00:41:05.389 --> 00:41:08.329
anybody. Yeah, I just I just want people to make

00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:11.190
sure that and understand that. Yeah, it can sound

00:41:11.190 --> 00:41:13.610
like that when you're trying to explain the facts.

00:41:14.250 --> 00:41:17.590
It can it can. Right. Alex has a way of making

00:41:17.590 --> 00:41:21.010
it almost sound like that, but he's not. trying

00:41:21.010 --> 00:41:24.670
to no he's just explaining the facts you know

00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:27.969
the the fact was is that there were people that

00:41:27.969 --> 00:41:30.650
had no experience in this kind of terrain in

00:41:30.650 --> 00:41:33.130
this state they were overloaded and they weren't

00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:37.170
built for this type of terrain and that ended

00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:40.409
up in the downfall not that they weren't built

00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:43.250
i mean right like i'll pick on mitchell a little

00:41:43.250 --> 00:41:45.010
bit because i know he's got a backbone and he

00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:48.559
listens mitchell's truck is incredible yeah And

00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.119
I don't think that Mitchell had too many issues

00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:56.099
in that situation, but those trails were so tight

00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:59.239
that I guarantee you he was scraping the hell

00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:01.500
out of that Alouette cab. Yeah. He was looking

00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:04.039
for an easy trail, and so he went with the easy

00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:05.920
route, but I don't think that was quite the trail

00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.440
he was expecting to be on, especially after Rebecca.

00:42:08.500 --> 00:42:13.440
I think at the end of the day, the main issue

00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.260
is that... Maybe some of the main group should

00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:20.340
have had a day to get there before everyone else

00:42:20.340 --> 00:42:22.860
and should have scouted these trails to decide.

00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:27.579
But the other issue is that... Derek should have

00:42:27.579 --> 00:42:32.639
sent an actual higher group to the trail he wanted

00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:35.679
to do before he went to it. Because he took the

00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.440
easy group out there before anyone else had been

00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.780
there. Okay. Yeah. And then the other half of

00:42:41.780 --> 00:42:43.420
this is that a lot of people are going off of

00:42:43.420 --> 00:42:45.980
Onyx and what Leatherwood says, and that was

00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:48.739
proven not to really be true already from what

00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:51.880
Alex has said. So they didn't have accurate trail

00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:56.239
readings to tell the conditions, which is probably

00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:59.380
the biggest issue. I think if Derek or anybody

00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:02.340
else who was trying to make sure this was an

00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:05.260
easy time, if they had known that the trails

00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:08.260
weren't accurate. And that would have caused

00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:11.500
them to maybe think about scouting or to send

00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:14.619
someone up there. But when you look at, again,

00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:18.679
the experience on Onyx for us in Michigan, green

00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:22.739
is green, blue is blue for the most part. And

00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:24.599
in Leatherwood, that just wasn't really the case.

00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.800
I mean, it's hard with Onyx because people can

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.179
take it in a complete, fully built Jeep, you

00:43:32.179 --> 00:43:34.840
know, and take it and go, oh, that was easy.

00:43:36.429 --> 00:43:39.250
And again, in Kentucky, the trails are a different

00:43:39.250 --> 00:43:42.110
level. So for that Jeep who has experience in

00:43:42.110 --> 00:43:44.289
it saying that's easy, it's going to be a whole

00:43:44.289 --> 00:43:47.989
lot different from an out -of -stater and typical

00:43:47.989 --> 00:43:51.070
use to green trails in Michigan. So that's kind

00:43:51.070 --> 00:43:54.150
of a major issue Onyx has in general when you're

00:43:54.150 --> 00:43:57.210
looking at their trails. And really, it's just

00:43:57.210 --> 00:43:59.889
trail ratings in general everywhere are like

00:43:59.889 --> 00:44:02.030
that. It doesn't matter if it's Onyx. It doesn't

00:44:02.030 --> 00:44:04.750
matter what it is because if I do a trail here

00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.469
in Michigan, I have to really think about what

00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:09.489
I want to market as because, to me, they're all

00:44:09.489 --> 00:44:13.730
green. Right. We've never gone down a trail here

00:44:13.730 --> 00:44:17.989
that I would consider even a 5 out of 10, you

00:44:17.989 --> 00:44:20.349
know? Yeah. I mean, there have been situations

00:44:20.349 --> 00:44:23.150
where it's a little bit more, but the overall

00:44:23.150 --> 00:44:26.230
trail rating, you can't do it off of a 10 -foot

00:44:26.230 --> 00:44:28.469
section. You can't rate a blue off of a 10 -foot

00:44:28.469 --> 00:44:32.150
section. And if you know how I wheel in Michigan,

00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:35.179
I go out of my way to make things harder for

00:44:35.179 --> 00:44:39.260
myself. I might do a hill climb in two -wheel

00:44:39.260 --> 00:44:42.500
drive, not because I need to, but because I'm

00:44:42.500 --> 00:44:46.639
bored and I want to try it. Right. So I've gotten

00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.159
myself in situations in Michigan, but nine times

00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.039
out of ten, it's because I'm messing around because

00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:57.320
I can. Yep. Down there, I will tell you, I picked

00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.500
the easiest lines I could. Like, I was not looking

00:45:00.500 --> 00:45:03.460
for hard lines this trip. Yeah, of course, you

00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:07.139
have to drive back, too. Right. And I knew that

00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:09.179
the wheeling down there was going to be way harder

00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.159
than what we deal with here. And that definitely,

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:15.659
I'm going back. It was some of the best wheeling

00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:18.280
I've ever had. Do you think I could have got

00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.780
through most of that, too? You actually stuck

00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:25.880
to green and not. I wouldn't say. I'm not sure

00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:27.480
about the other. That would be his question for

00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.139
that one. But I'd say most of the greens you

00:45:29.139 --> 00:45:32.079
could have gone through. I think that you could

00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:34.880
have kept up with me if you had a driver mod.

00:45:35.300 --> 00:45:38.400
Your truck could have kept up with me. But you

00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.739
would need a lot of warming up to some of the

00:45:41.739 --> 00:45:44.059
stuff we did to have the experience to know what

00:45:44.059 --> 00:45:46.699
to do. Not that you're a bad driver. No, I know

00:45:46.699 --> 00:45:49.219
what you're saying. You're a great driver. but

00:45:49.219 --> 00:45:51.119
there was stuff that we did that you would have

00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.940
had to done before and know how to do it to be

00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:56.880
able to do it. Yeah, no, I'm fully aware of that.

00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.179
I mean, I have, for Michigan, I have good enough

00:46:01.179 --> 00:46:03.199
experience in Michigan that I can handle just

00:46:03.199 --> 00:46:07.559
about anything now. Now, a year ago, I would

00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:09.280
have puckered up on some of the off -camber things

00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:12.019
now that I just drive right through without thinking

00:46:12.019 --> 00:46:14.800
about it anymore. An off -camber here in Michigan

00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.409
is not off -camber. Right, right. It's just more

00:46:18.409 --> 00:46:23.710
so people understand, though. So, I mean, I completely

00:46:23.710 --> 00:46:26.050
understand that driver experience is probably

00:46:26.050 --> 00:46:30.409
the biggest. I mean, you can have a darn near

00:46:30.409 --> 00:46:34.170
stock vehicle, and if you have plenty of experience,

00:46:34.309 --> 00:46:37.110
you can pick the right line and get through some

00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:42.789
things better than others. But that's been proven

00:46:42.789 --> 00:46:46.610
by people with darn near stock. Lexuses that

00:46:46.610 --> 00:46:48.889
have been in our group that have taken better

00:46:48.889 --> 00:46:52.929
lines than my truck. And then me almost, you

00:46:52.929 --> 00:46:57.010
know, sliding down a hill or something. And like

00:46:57.010 --> 00:47:00.789
I said, your truck in general, man, it would

00:47:00.789 --> 00:47:02.789
have done great out there. The way it is now.

00:47:03.190 --> 00:47:06.690
Maybe take some stuff off your roof. That'd probably

00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:08.789
be my only recommendation. I mean, as long as

00:47:08.789 --> 00:47:12.309
it's pushing branches, I don't care. I can push

00:47:12.309 --> 00:47:18.519
the antenna back. Let me put it this way. So

00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:20.900
you know how I used to have a roof rack on my

00:47:20.900 --> 00:47:24.500
truck? Ice factory roof rack? Oh, yeah. I don't

00:47:24.500 --> 00:47:27.139
anymore. Yeah. Because of the branches. Yeah.

00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:32.780
It's not a matter of you can push branches out

00:47:32.780 --> 00:47:35.079
of the way. If you've got stuff on the roof and

00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.360
you're wheeling like we were, you're going to

00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.260
break it. Yeah. I'm still confused why you didn't

00:47:40.260 --> 00:47:43.190
go around that branch. Everyone else did. Because

00:47:43.190 --> 00:47:45.690
I thought I fit under it. Everyone else went

00:47:45.690 --> 00:47:47.789
around it because they saw me break it. Yeah.

00:47:48.369 --> 00:47:54.349
No, I hit a branch on that Graylings shakedown

00:47:54.349 --> 00:47:59.969
camp. I say branch. It was a tree that fell over

00:47:59.969 --> 00:48:01.670
the trail, but not all the way. This was his

00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:06.389
too. Yeah, and this was a five -inch tree. And

00:48:06.389 --> 00:48:12.550
I hit that, and you could hear it go. And I'm

00:48:12.550 --> 00:48:15.170
like, oh, shit. I don't want to admit that I

00:48:15.170 --> 00:48:17.989
hit, like, a 10 -inch branch off a much larger

00:48:17.989 --> 00:48:20.909
tree that fell. But this tree was significantly

00:48:20.909 --> 00:48:25.190
larger. Yeah. Like, it was, the branch was about

00:48:25.190 --> 00:48:27.530
yay big or out. Yeah, okay, anything on your

00:48:27.530 --> 00:48:29.090
roof isn't going to stay if you hit a fucking

00:48:29.090 --> 00:48:32.650
tree like that. And there were a lot of those.

00:48:32.690 --> 00:48:34.670
That's why I said you should take the stuff off

00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:37.250
your roof. Could you have navigated around it?

00:48:37.789 --> 00:48:41.070
That particular instance, yes. There were other

00:48:41.070 --> 00:48:44.690
times when I couldn't have. Because that's important

00:48:44.690 --> 00:48:49.570
too. In that particular instance, I could have.

00:48:49.989 --> 00:48:54.489
Yeah, I mean, overall. Overall, the wheeling

00:48:54.489 --> 00:48:56.429
down there, I'm not going to say it's hard because

00:48:56.429 --> 00:48:59.889
it's not hard. You just need the experience for

00:48:59.889 --> 00:49:04.960
it to not be hard. Yep. Yeah. I would put. I

00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.039
can think of places in Arizona, I can think of

00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.599
places in Sierra Vista alone that to the guys

00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.719
there at Leatherwood, it would be like a triple

00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:17.639
red. Right. Like almost impassable. I think when

00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:20.500
you speak about the trails, because you're so

00:49:20.500 --> 00:49:22.199
used to it, you have to speak more objectively

00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.260
about this. Because like when you say they're

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:28.039
not hard. We have listeners that are like, well,

00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.940
maybe I should go to Leatherwood next year. Maybe

00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:32.340
I should try this. And then they get there and

00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:36.800
they're like, yeah, this is nothing compared

00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.440
to what he was saying. They are hard. They're

00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.539
just not hard for Alex. If you have the experience.

00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:47.059
Yeah, exactly. Now, these are the hardest trails

00:49:47.059 --> 00:49:50.219
I've ever done in an IFS rig. And I'll tell you

00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:53.019
right now, I miss my solid axle. That sucked.

00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:57.889
There you go. If it was solid axle, dude, I'd

00:49:57.889 --> 00:49:59.489
have been crawling over all of it without giving

00:49:59.489 --> 00:50:02.949
a fine fuck. I don't know. I got a pretty good

00:50:02.949 --> 00:50:05.789
experience now. I play Mud Runner Expeditions.

00:50:05.789 --> 00:50:09.070
I think I could probably handle it. But overall,

00:50:09.949 --> 00:50:12.809
Leatherwood is beautiful. There's nothing in

00:50:12.809 --> 00:50:14.849
Michigan that compares to the beauty that you

00:50:14.849 --> 00:50:18.030
experience down there. Yeah. I mean, what about

00:50:18.030 --> 00:50:22.650
the Western UP? Is anything up there? The Western

00:50:22.650 --> 00:50:24.730
UP is beautiful and one of my favorite places

00:50:24.730 --> 00:50:28.860
on Earth. It's not as pretty. Okay, let me rephrase

00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:31.400
that. I'm accounting for trail difficulty in

00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:34.099
my statement here. Oh, okay. See, I'm just talking

00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:38.920
about views and just scenery. Leatherwood is

00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:42.139
still prettier, but not near as much prettier

00:50:42.139 --> 00:50:43.940
as it is when you account for trail difficulty.

00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:50.300
Yeah. I'm excited. I would love to try this fall

00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:54.780
-ish to go to... where we were talking about

00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:57.800
earlier down in Ohio. What is it? The hill, Hocking

00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:02.579
Hills. Yeah. It looks like it's going to be kind

00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:05.599
of the similar type of terrain. Probably not

00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:09.440
as hard, but. It looks like it's going to be

00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:12.940
a cakewalk compared to Leatherwood. Look, I can't,

00:51:12.940 --> 00:51:16.320
because of how cameras make everything look so

00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:21.960
much more flat, I can't put into words how. not

00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:28.860
flat this place was oh yeah built to not be easy

00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:33.159
either as as it being a park which is nice well

00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:37.099
and it's not all that a lot of the road the more

00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:39.760
difficult stuff that we were dealing with it

00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:42.739
wasn't even park built trails it was service

00:51:42.739 --> 00:51:46.760
trails for like pipelines and stuff yeah i mean

00:51:46.760 --> 00:51:51.039
that was hard what was the What was the hardest

00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:54.320
type of terrain? Was it the rock, the shelves?

00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.340
I mean, as far as clearance and getting through

00:51:57.340 --> 00:52:00.980
it. I mean, you're talking the clearance in general.

00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:05.800
Clay. Yeah. Clay was the hardest. Well, then

00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.119
that's where MTs would probably do much better,

00:52:08.219 --> 00:52:11.920
being able to shed that clay or what. I don't

00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:15.679
think so because it's clay on like a 45 to 70

00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.619
degree angle. It doesn't matter or what? No,

00:52:19.739 --> 00:52:21.519
you're going to slide. I almost think all terrains

00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:22.820
would be better because there's more surface

00:52:22.820 --> 00:52:26.340
area. Sure. But there's also more surface area.

00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:30.239
You're more likely to slide. Yeah. It was just

00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:35.159
slick. Once it got wet, dude. Gavin, the first

00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.119
night when I was trying to tip the hill climb,

00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:39.260
I had my brakes locked, and all of a sudden I

00:52:39.260 --> 00:52:41.380
realized my truck was going backwards in drive

00:52:41.380 --> 00:52:44.519
and brakes locked. Right. That's how clay it

00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:49.889
was. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was fun. I want to go

00:52:49.889 --> 00:52:52.550
back. I kind of want to move there. I'm kind

00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:56.670
of looking for jobs down there. Yeah. Is it safe

00:52:56.670 --> 00:52:58.750
to say you fell in love with that type of terrain

00:52:58.750 --> 00:53:03.710
and area? It was nice because it was the difficulty

00:53:03.710 --> 00:53:09.610
I remember from Arizona, but it was green. I

00:53:09.610 --> 00:53:12.010
don't know. Because I like Arizona desert too.

00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:16.199
It'd be kind of nice to live like an hour from

00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.920
Leatherwood and be able to just go every weekend.

00:53:19.219 --> 00:53:23.099
Right. Yeah, just pay for the yearly pass. Yep.

00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.599
Now, all that being said, I have recently learned

00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:30.980
about a trail up in the northwestern UP called

00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:35.340
Colorado Rapids. Oh, yep. It is not on any map.

00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:40.579
Mm -hmm. And I may or may not have acquired some

00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:43.940
coordinates for it. And I do plan on going to

00:53:43.940 --> 00:53:46.840
do it because it looks like some of the best

00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:49.900
wheeling you can do in Michigan. Yeah, I've seen

00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:53.260
some stuff on that. I had someone message me

00:53:53.260 --> 00:53:55.460
who we won't be giving names because this is

00:53:55.460 --> 00:53:58.400
not a trail for everyone, but this is one of

00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:02.659
those hidden gems that stay hidden. Yep. For

00:54:02.659 --> 00:54:07.539
a reason. So, yeah, I was looking at that too.

00:54:07.659 --> 00:54:10.099
I was hoping to be able to get up and do the

00:54:10.099 --> 00:54:15.889
Western. michigan up exploration but if that

00:54:15.889 --> 00:54:17.809
doesn't happen i might try that somewhere some

00:54:17.809 --> 00:54:22.989
other time yeah i i don't know man i love michigan

00:54:22.989 --> 00:54:25.429
i love michigan trails i understand they're not

00:54:25.429 --> 00:54:27.369
all that hard because guess what they're not

00:54:27.369 --> 00:54:32.090
but it's something about wheeling in michigan

00:54:32.090 --> 00:54:34.789
is special to me so it's hard for me to just

00:54:34.789 --> 00:54:37.989
say you know fuck michigan trails and go do something

00:54:37.989 --> 00:54:41.739
else because The big thing in Michigan, you know,

00:54:41.780 --> 00:54:46.420
it's mostly mud. So I don't know. I was going

00:54:46.420 --> 00:54:49.579
to say the hardest parts in Michigan are the

00:54:49.579 --> 00:54:53.539
ruts, the mud ruts. There's off -camber stuff,

00:54:53.780 --> 00:54:56.420
not super bad. I mean, there's nothing really

00:54:56.420 --> 00:55:01.739
bad at all, but the rock isn't bad until you

00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:03.800
get into UP, and then it's still not bad. It's

00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:07.980
just more. So it's just the ruts that the...

00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:11.639
And for me, as someone who doesn't like trashing

00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:15.780
my rig on purpose, to go through those mud pits

00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:20.500
that some guy in a $800 XJ went through and just

00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:26.420
trashed it, I would bury my frame. I'd just sit

00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:28.119
right there and turtle on the frame because of

00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:31.980
that. So it's not worth the issue. Other than

00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:35.340
that, Michigan trails are beautiful. They're

00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:42.340
just not hard. Yeah. And another thing to think

00:55:42.340 --> 00:55:46.960
about is I was reminded how much better wheeling

00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.219
with a manual is when we were there. Now in Michigan,

00:55:50.300 --> 00:55:52.539
I would say an automatic is way better because

00:55:52.539 --> 00:55:56.119
you just put it in drive and go. But if I had

00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:58.400
had a manual this over the weekend, it would

00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:00.699
have been so nice. Just throw it in four low,

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.780
throw it in two, and just let it walk down the

00:56:03.780 --> 00:56:07.940
hill. Yep. And because, I mean, I can go to four

00:56:07.940 --> 00:56:11.840
low one or four low two on the 4Runner, but it's

00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:14.219
not the same level of control as what you get

00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:16.519
with a manual. Yeah, because you can let off

00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:19.739
and on the clutch. Right. Right. And not just

00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:22.500
that. I mean, you've got more gearing that you

00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:24.800
can choose from in a manual than what you do

00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:27.440
in an automatic. Yeah, I'm assuming you're referring

00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:31.440
to Chris because I believe his Wrangler's manual.

00:56:32.059 --> 00:56:34.820
Yeah. Because he accidentally stalled on one

00:56:34.820 --> 00:56:37.280
of the hill climbs we were doing. He did with

00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:40.960
us, too. I was like, you good? Because I thought

00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:43.760
he was slipping. It was one of the steeper hill

00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:47.300
climbs. I mentioned it before. And he was like,

00:56:47.420 --> 00:56:50.300
oh, yeah, yeah, just got to. And then he popped

00:56:50.300 --> 00:56:54.380
right back in and came up. Just got to put it

00:56:54.380 --> 00:56:57.800
in four -wheel drive. I wasn't necessarily talking

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.360
about Chris, but I'm definitely jealous of Chris

00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.940
because I'll tell you that my break suffered

00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:07.260
this weekend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Chris has

00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:09.920
got a really nice setup. Did he take his wife

00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.679
too? Oh, yeah. She is freaking awesome. Yeah,

00:57:12.699 --> 00:57:18.380
she is. She gave us biscuits and gravy, the MRE,

00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.400
the dehydrated meals. She gave us them because

00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.480
she hates them. And I was like, I've never been

00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:24.619
so lucky because that's like our favorite breakfast.

00:57:25.670 --> 00:57:30.389
So I will kind of off topic, very off topic.

00:57:30.530 --> 00:57:34.670
So I'm looking at the Onyx in Michigan. Why do

00:57:34.670 --> 00:57:37.090
they have Yankee Springs marked as a blue trail?

00:57:39.210 --> 00:57:44.409
Maybe, well, they don't, whoever drove did. That's

00:57:44.409 --> 00:57:47.889
the issue. It's like, that's what I'm saying,

00:57:47.969 --> 00:57:50.730
right? Like to me, that's like a one out of 10,

00:57:50.809 --> 00:57:54.179
like one of the easiest trails you can do. And

00:57:54.179 --> 00:58:02.019
they have it marked as a four. Oh, my God. Yeah.

00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:05.199
Because of deep water crossings. There are no

00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:07.559
deep water crossings. There must have been in

00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:13.039
the spring or something. I mean, yeah, I don't

00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:16.860
know. But, you know, that's the problem with

00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:21.570
the whole. the whole trail rating thing in general

00:58:21.570 --> 00:58:25.909
it's it's so objective that you don't know yep

00:58:25.909 --> 00:58:28.769
yeah i mean onyx is and this is not to scare

00:58:28.769 --> 00:58:32.989
you from onyx onyx is an amazing tool but it's

00:58:32.989 --> 00:58:36.530
it's also not the whole tool in your toolbox

00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:38.809
right i mean like there there are other things

00:58:38.809 --> 00:58:40.610
that you should utilize there are other ways

00:58:40.610 --> 00:58:42.690
that you should check these trails out if you've

00:58:42.690 --> 00:58:45.010
never been to them and if this starts getting

00:58:45.010 --> 00:58:49.639
too choppy then play it safe dude Your pride

00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:51.820
isn't so important that you need to break your

00:58:51.820 --> 00:58:54.380
rig to try to get through something that you're

00:58:54.380 --> 00:58:57.440
not comfortable getting through. I think Leatherwood

00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:00.579
themselves marked the trail properly. It's just

00:59:00.579 --> 00:59:03.840
Onyx went through with Ambassadors and they decided

00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:05.579
it was a totally different rating from what they

00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:09.179
thought. Yeah, and that's the issue. You get

00:59:09.179 --> 00:59:14.579
a Jeep on 42s that can pretty much do everything

00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:17.539
in Michigan two -wheel drive. Yeah, it's all

00:59:17.539 --> 00:59:20.719
green, and if they can just crawl through. I

00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:24.260
mean, there might be a user from Leatherwood

00:59:24.260 --> 00:59:27.380
who is also one of the Onyx members who's been

00:59:27.380 --> 00:59:31.059
on that trail 80 fucking times and goes, yeah,

00:59:31.099 --> 00:59:36.099
this is easy as hell, rates it as that, doesn't

00:59:36.099 --> 00:59:38.199
think twice about it, and then someone comes

00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:42.280
in out of state and goes, holy shit. Or it could

00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:43.940
have been a guy on a side -by -side. They tend

00:59:43.940 --> 00:59:48.420
to have more clearance. I mean, they don't have

00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:50.340
bigger tires, but they tend to have more clearance.

00:59:50.780 --> 00:59:52.559
They can get through some of these obstacles

00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.340
a little better. I think to fix this problem,

00:59:57.539 --> 01:00:03.199
what Onyx really needs to do is the people that

01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:05.780
set the trail ratings all need to drive a similar

01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:09.539
rig. Just for shits and giggles, let's say a

01:00:09.539 --> 01:00:13.840
bone stock, not modified at all, Wrangler JK.

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:18.219
I think, okay, and to best of both worlds there,

01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:22.440
I think there should be a description and a list

01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:27.659
of mods of popular or performance -changing mods

01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:31.400
that you have to put under your vehicle. So if

01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:35.039
it says, okay, this is a Blue Trail done by a

01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:42.159
lifted Jeep with cutout fenders, 42s, and, you

01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:45.039
know. off -road tire winch, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:45.139 --> 01:00:48.480
Okay, so this is green to him. This might be

01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.920
blue to me then. That kind of thing. You can

01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:53.340
gauge it by what people are driving most of the

01:00:53.340 --> 01:00:56.260
time. Like if someone says, hey, this trail's

01:00:56.260 --> 01:01:00.739
green, and they show pictures of giant mud ruts,

01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:04.360
and they're driving an $800 XJ with the fenders

01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:07.059
cut out, you're like, okay, this might not be

01:01:07.059 --> 01:01:09.940
a green trail for me then. So, I mean, knowing

01:01:09.940 --> 01:01:14.369
the vehicle would be. The help. Yeah, for sure.

01:01:14.769 --> 01:01:18.929
We are at one hour. Let's split it here and record

01:01:18.929 --> 01:01:22.110
another one that will go into the rest of the

01:01:22.110 --> 01:01:27.929
trip. Yep. All right. We'll catch you guys in

01:01:27.929 --> 01:01:31.650
the next one. Catch you guys. For us, in like

01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:35.909
15 minutes tops. For you guys, it'll be Tuesday,

01:01:36.130 --> 01:01:40.690
I hope. Yeah. Life is crazy right now. Right.

01:01:41.699 --> 01:01:46.900
So, all right, catch you guys later. Later. Well,

01:01:46.940 --> 01:01:49.239
that was part one. I hope you enjoyed your Dice

01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:51.579
Thursday episode that you definitely got on Thursday

01:01:51.579 --> 01:01:58.340
and was not released on, at this point, Wednesday

01:01:58.340 --> 01:02:02.280
with the other one. Man, I'm way behind on this.

01:02:02.579 --> 01:02:07.679
But anyways, coming up is part two. If you want

01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:11.559
to go get a drink or... take a poop or take a

01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:13.800
break this would be the time to do it just hit

01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:17.219
pause go do your thing i will get that going

01:02:17.219 --> 01:02:21.719
right now welcome to botches off road join us

01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:23.639
as we talk about everything from gear reviews

01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:26.300
to trail stories i'm going to interrupt the intro

01:02:26.300 --> 01:02:29.519
right here this is the uh i'm not doing the whole

01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:33.719
thing for part two screw that yeah and he's coughing

01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:38.639
Yeah, so this is part two for Leatherwood Adventure.

01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:41.679
I'm sorry if I got loud and echoey. I'm very

01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:45.340
excited. It was a great trip. And I'm a little

01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:48.320
drunk. Still loud and echoey, still. Ah, you

01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:52.539
know. I'm also a little drunk, so that's going

01:02:52.539 --> 01:02:58.420
to happen. Drunk and rowdy. It has been a week,

01:02:58.500 --> 01:03:01.480
my friend. I've been back for two days, and I'll

01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:06.300
tell you I'm ready to go back. So, what day are

01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:11.079
we at? Saturday. Saturday. Did we make it? We

01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:14.119
made it through Friday? Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay.

01:03:14.139 --> 01:03:16.360
We didn't talk about Derek coming back to camp

01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:21.280
and how he was looking for stuff. What was he

01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:23.820
looking for? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. So, we're

01:03:23.820 --> 01:03:26.659
sitting around the fire just kind of chilling,

01:03:26.780 --> 01:03:31.579
right? And Chris keeps coming over and saying,

01:03:31.699 --> 01:03:36.969
they need gas. They need this. Luckily, there

01:03:36.969 --> 01:03:38.610
were enough people down there that they were

01:03:38.610 --> 01:03:40.829
able to get themselves out without help because

01:03:40.829 --> 01:03:43.010
we were like two hours from making it to them,

01:03:43.070 --> 01:03:46.530
and it would have been a whole fiasco. Yep. But

01:03:46.530 --> 01:03:49.769
they had everything. They just had to spread

01:03:49.769 --> 01:03:56.030
it out amongst everyone in the valley. Yep. I

01:03:56.030 --> 01:04:00.590
kind of wish that we had someone, not necessarily

01:04:00.590 --> 01:04:04.920
Joe Yamber. I want someone like Ed. Ed would

01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:06.699
have been great to have on here to give us his

01:04:06.699 --> 01:04:09.400
perspective of that trail. I think we should

01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:13.119
have one of them on at a later date just to talk

01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:15.460
about their perspective of what happened and

01:04:15.460 --> 01:04:21.280
why it happened like that. I just know when we're

01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:23.340
sitting around the fire and they came back, there

01:04:23.340 --> 01:04:27.780
were a lot of salty people. They had had such

01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:29.619
a long day. Yeah, that's rough. I guess there

01:04:29.619 --> 01:04:31.900
were people. There were people, like, yelling

01:04:31.900 --> 01:04:34.780
at Derek. Like, they were so mad about what was

01:04:34.780 --> 01:04:38.780
going on. Oh. Yeah, I mean, that's hard. That's

01:04:38.780 --> 01:04:43.179
a hard day. Yeah. It's... Yeah. The tensions

01:04:43.179 --> 01:04:47.780
rise. With three to five rigs, you can have a

01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:49.659
hard day like that, and everyone's still buddy

01:04:49.659 --> 01:04:52.320
-buddy, it was fine. But once you reach that

01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:55.900
10 -plus mark... that's a lot of personalities

01:04:55.900 --> 01:04:58.619
going through something pretty rough. Not only

01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:01.139
that, and it's like one person breaks down, you

01:05:01.139 --> 01:05:04.900
stop the whole fucking group. And the more cars

01:05:04.900 --> 01:05:07.119
you add, the more probability that someone's

01:05:07.119 --> 01:05:08.880
going to break down, get stuck, have to pee,

01:05:09.059 --> 01:05:12.179
have to get their dog out to pee, whatever. So

01:05:12.179 --> 01:05:14.599
you add all that. Yeah, you add all that with

01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:16.280
the people that are just antsy to get out on

01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:18.599
the trail, people that are tired of others getting

01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:21.059
stuck, people that are tired of getting stuck.

01:05:21.789 --> 01:05:25.230
You know, it just, it's perfect storm. So, I

01:05:25.230 --> 01:05:28.369
mean, and then again, it takes them another six

01:05:28.369 --> 01:05:33.650
hours to get through the trail. So, yeah, I mean,

01:05:33.650 --> 01:05:36.969
I would not doubt there was a lot of tired, irritable

01:05:36.969 --> 01:05:40.889
people. And I can't imagine, hey, wives, sorry,

01:05:41.110 --> 01:05:44.809
but I can't imagine the wives were entirely pleasant

01:05:44.809 --> 01:05:49.460
to be with during that time. There was definitely

01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:52.800
one guy who none of us had met before. I'm not

01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:56.039
going to say what he drives or his name, but

01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:59.380
all I heard was that his girlfriend was an absolute

01:05:59.380 --> 01:06:04.300
peach the entire trip. Him alone was annoying,

01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:08.079
but you add her and it was like next level. Yeah,

01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:11.099
I still want to know when you guys would we go

01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:13.400
off here. I got to know. I got to know who to

01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:17.059
stay away from. That's very interesting. But,

01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:20.559
I mean, like, again, like, it happens. So everybody

01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:23.880
got to camp. They're super salty. They're tired.

01:06:24.500 --> 01:06:27.739
They're probably very hungry. What do we got

01:06:27.739 --> 01:06:33.059
next? The rest is kind of a blur because I drank

01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:37.260
a lot of beer and got pretty drunk. I think everyone

01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:38.739
took a really bad. Were you the rowdy camp again?

01:06:39.900 --> 01:06:43.480
Oh, we, I, so when we were, we were some of the

01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:46.679
first ones there. And I picked our camp spot

01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:49.800
and said, we need to put the kids on the other

01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:53.079
end. And then the jeeps got there and took where

01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:58.559
we wanted to put the kids. Yeah. Because I knew

01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:00.800
that there was no way in hell we were going to

01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:04.940
be quiet past 10. I don't think we were that

01:07:04.940 --> 01:07:10.320
loud to begin with. We weren't. We were up. You're

01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:13.699
just naturally louder when you get excited. As

01:07:13.699 --> 01:07:18.400
the listeners can hear. Yeah. But we were up

01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:27.420
until 3. Yep. Jesus. Yep. I hit 1 a .m. with

01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:35.340
Nolan during kids camp or spring shakedown. And

01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:37.460
I was like, all right, we need to go to fucking

01:07:37.460 --> 01:07:42.329
bed. So 3 a .m. is just too crazy. But the kid

01:07:42.329 --> 01:07:45.429
slept through it. He had such a long day running

01:07:45.429 --> 01:07:48.349
around that it was like he could have slept through

01:07:48.349 --> 01:07:52.889
fireworks. He was cool. And then now we're on

01:07:52.889 --> 01:07:56.590
Saturday. So we went to bed at 3. By the way,

01:07:56.750 --> 01:08:00.429
swag, phenomenal purchase. That was some of the

01:08:00.429 --> 01:08:02.530
best camping I've ever had because it was just

01:08:02.530 --> 01:08:05.550
comfortable. I didn't have to worry about anything.

01:08:05.630 --> 01:08:07.909
When it rained, I knew I wasn't getting wet.

01:08:08.190 --> 01:08:11.860
You didn't feel the rocks. Yeah, I was right

01:08:11.860 --> 01:08:15.699
on rocks and we couldn't feel them. I mean, it

01:08:15.699 --> 01:08:19.579
was great. So you spend the money, you do the

01:08:19.579 --> 01:08:23.500
research, and you actually might improve your

01:08:23.500 --> 01:08:27.579
quality of sleep and camp setup? Crazy. It's

01:08:27.579 --> 01:08:30.560
like we've been telling you that. Oh, I knew

01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:32.880
that. I just wasn't ready to spend the money.

01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:37.500
I finally was there. So it's like it's a revolutionary.

01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:41.000
I would say. I would say that sleeping in the

01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:45.539
$100 12 -person tent, honestly, way more comfortable

01:08:45.539 --> 01:08:49.500
just because I use an inflatable cot. Oh, yeah.

01:08:49.579 --> 01:08:55.180
I mean, it usually is. But because of ease of

01:08:55.180 --> 01:08:58.880
setup, swag, 100%, best thing I've ever bought.

01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:02.739
I think us pivoting from having these giant crates

01:09:02.739 --> 01:09:04.760
that fill with everything and then having tents

01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:08.520
to something that's way more easier to set up.

01:09:09.260 --> 01:09:12.460
throw out has changed how we've been doing stuff

01:09:12.460 --> 01:09:16.960
yeah now the packout trailer absolute fucking

01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:20.739
game changer man yeah um there were a lot of

01:09:20.739 --> 01:09:23.760
breakdowns other than just ours in the mst group

01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:25.979
and the trailer just kind of became a hub for

01:09:25.979 --> 01:09:29.619
people to come get tools yep we had mario was

01:09:29.619 --> 01:09:34.729
realigning his upper control arms Yeah, people

01:09:34.729 --> 01:09:37.670
are going to get real salty when I stop putting

01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:40.010
the massive amount of tools I have in my truck

01:09:40.010 --> 01:09:44.829
because that thing has been the hub for most

01:09:44.829 --> 01:09:49.189
people when I'm out and something breaks. It's

01:09:49.189 --> 01:09:52.369
easily accessible. There's pretty much everything

01:09:52.369 --> 01:09:58.649
you'd need. Grinder, oscillating saw, your impacts,

01:09:59.090 --> 01:10:02.989
wrenches, everything. I mean, it's going to be...

01:10:03.789 --> 01:10:06.130
You still should definitely carry because the

01:10:06.130 --> 01:10:07.829
minute that you don't, you're going to need it.

01:10:07.850 --> 01:10:12.090
Yeah, but I don't need the mass amount of standard

01:10:12.090 --> 01:10:15.770
sockets and wrenches. Most of what I do is metric.

01:10:16.829 --> 01:10:21.050
Stick with metric. We don't even carry. We're

01:10:21.050 --> 01:10:23.289
going to start trying to carry our own, but it's

01:10:23.289 --> 01:10:25.649
going to be very specific of what we need at

01:10:25.649 --> 01:10:29.489
the time and it stays in the rig. Yeah. We don't

01:10:29.489 --> 01:10:32.170
carry. We don't carry standard anymore. We just

01:10:32.170 --> 01:10:34.270
carry metric. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing

01:10:34.270 --> 01:10:38.210
is I can move that down a little bit. Once I

01:10:38.210 --> 01:10:43.710
move from my 300 -piece all -around toolkit to

01:10:43.710 --> 01:10:46.470
something more compact, that'll probably be it.

01:10:46.670 --> 01:10:50.229
I might actually do a packout mount with one

01:10:50.229 --> 01:10:54.109
of the... Did you say not to do the pre -built

01:10:54.109 --> 01:10:57.289
Milwaukee packout metric sets or to do them?

01:10:57.899 --> 01:11:00.979
Do it. Do the pre -built one. Okay. That's what

01:11:00.979 --> 01:11:02.880
I was thinking of doing, but I just wanted to

01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:05.140
double check with you because we did have a conversation

01:11:05.140 --> 01:11:08.899
on this at one point. I tried piecing one together

01:11:08.899 --> 01:11:12.520
out of tools that I had, and finding dividers

01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:15.100
that actually hold up is basically impossible.

01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:18.659
So just spend the money, buy the Milwaukee stuff,

01:11:18.979 --> 01:11:24.239
but you don't need the full socket set. No. No.

01:11:25.950 --> 01:11:29.010
What I want to do is I want to get down to the

01:11:29.010 --> 01:11:32.609
half set up. So, like, they've got the $100 3

01:11:32.609 --> 01:11:35.710
-8 drive metric set. I'm going to buy one of

01:11:35.710 --> 01:11:39.569
those. I'll probably, for my half -inch drive

01:11:39.569 --> 01:11:45.470
set, buy the full half -inch drive. Impact? Impact.

01:11:45.569 --> 01:11:49.850
I was going to ask, I mean, if you're, for the

01:11:49.850 --> 01:11:52.720
sake of space saving. Would it be better to just

01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:55.560
buy all impact instead of chrome because impact

01:11:55.560 --> 01:12:00.819
can do both? Yeah. So what I do is in half -inch

01:12:00.819 --> 01:12:04.300
drive, I go out of my way to only do impact sockets

01:12:04.300 --> 01:12:09.279
if I can. Yeah. In 3 -8ths drive, I do chromely

01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:11.380
because I'm not going to run a 3 -8ths impact.

01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:16.039
Also, you really should try to get short sockets

01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:18.600
and not just have all long ones, which is mostly

01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:22.000
impacts. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say,

01:12:22.060 --> 01:12:26.539
do they make shorty impact sockets or no? They

01:12:26.539 --> 01:12:32.020
do. Actually, Milwaukee has a set for $229. Okay,

01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:38.399
yeah. So I think there's a place to mix and match

01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:42.729
a little bit. Personally... I'm probably just

01:12:42.729 --> 01:12:44.350
going to buy the Milwaukee stuff, and I'm going

01:12:44.350 --> 01:12:47.189
to aim to do as many of the half pack outs as

01:12:47.189 --> 01:12:49.630
I can because, one, they take up less space in

01:12:49.630 --> 01:12:52.409
the truck. Two, if I've got them on the trailer

01:12:52.409 --> 01:12:54.390
and you need them, you just grab the half pack

01:12:54.390 --> 01:12:56.189
you need. You don't need to carry around a whole

01:12:56.189 --> 01:12:58.270
freaking case. Yeah, that's an absolute game

01:12:58.270 --> 01:13:02.550
changer right there. I don't have the convenience.

01:13:05.850 --> 01:13:08.010
of being able to just grab the whole thing off

01:13:08.010 --> 01:13:10.489
of my truck. Right. It is nice I can grab the

01:13:10.489 --> 01:13:14.250
whole half -inch tray, but it would be very cool

01:13:14.250 --> 01:13:16.649
to grab the whole fucking box off. Right now

01:13:16.649 --> 01:13:19.270
they're hard -mounted, so it's not as easy. That's

01:13:19.270 --> 01:13:24.289
kind of the point in going to Milwaukee is to

01:13:24.289 --> 01:13:27.729
be able to spread our tools out. Like right now,

01:13:27.729 --> 01:13:30.090
we don't have all the Milwaukee boxes we need,

01:13:30.229 --> 01:13:32.710
so we've got a chest full of tools. Well, that

01:13:32.710 --> 01:13:36.789
chest full of tools could easily be split. Into

01:13:36.789 --> 01:13:41.489
10 of the smaller pack -out boxes, and then you

01:13:41.489 --> 01:13:44.470
just grab what you need. Oh, you need ball joint

01:13:44.470 --> 01:13:46.930
press? Grab the ball joint press pack -out box.

01:13:47.109 --> 01:13:51.970
Yep. Because the goal is to not have to unload

01:13:51.970 --> 01:13:55.329
the trailer 100 % every time we need something.

01:13:55.390 --> 01:13:59.590
Oh, yeah. I've been thinking about slowly switching

01:13:59.590 --> 01:14:06.939
my Pelican. my Pelicans out for plates and doing

01:14:06.939 --> 01:14:10.979
Milwaukee, but only the shorter. So again, we

01:14:10.979 --> 01:14:12.800
want to keep the, I want to keep the same amount

01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:15.979
of clearance around the same size box as the

01:14:15.979 --> 01:14:20.000
one I had before, but that's just about as expensive

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:22.380
as buying a brand new Pelican too. So it's kind

01:14:22.380 --> 01:14:24.779
of, I don't need it. It's just a convenience

01:14:24.779 --> 01:14:28.649
thing. The thing with the packouts are they are

01:14:28.649 --> 01:14:30.489
expensive. I'm not going to sit here and tell

01:14:30.489 --> 01:14:32.010
you they're cheap because they're fucking not.

01:14:32.210 --> 01:14:36.149
No. But the convenience factor with a packout,

01:14:36.189 --> 01:14:38.770
there's nothing on the market that matches them

01:14:38.770 --> 01:14:42.270
in convenience factor. Yeah, it's the mounting

01:14:42.270 --> 01:14:46.569
is the most. I think that's the biggest player

01:14:46.569 --> 01:14:49.399
in it, to be honest. It is, 100%. It's the mounting.

01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:52.539
It's not the quality of the box itself. There

01:14:52.539 --> 01:14:55.640
are others that have similar quality. It's the

01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:58.159
fact that you can buy aftermarket packout plates

01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:02.760
and mount them literally anywhere. So roofs,

01:15:02.819 --> 01:15:05.060
you can mount them vertically. You can mount

01:15:05.060 --> 01:15:07.359
them underneath your truck if you really wanted

01:15:07.359 --> 01:15:13.079
to. I mean, put them in this entire area. Yeah.

01:15:13.760 --> 01:15:17.460
I'm getting ready to build a Prince's style rack

01:15:17.460 --> 01:15:21.300
for my truck. And when I do that, I'm going to

01:15:21.300 --> 01:15:24.579
have somebody cut me a big sheet of, instead

01:15:24.579 --> 01:15:28.500
of having slats that go between everything, I'm

01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:30.359
just going to have someone cut me a big sheet

01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:33.260
of aluminum with packout mounts lining the entire

01:15:33.260 --> 01:15:37.479
thing. Yeah, I was going to say, if you had them

01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:41.640
cut out a sheet as wide as your rack, as long

01:15:41.640 --> 01:15:44.539
as your rack. and literally made it all pack

01:15:44.539 --> 01:15:48.579
out cutouts that's my plan yeah i mean you probably

01:15:48.579 --> 01:15:52.460
have to still have supports in there but if you

01:15:52.460 --> 01:15:55.619
had all of the mounts on this you know on each

01:15:55.619 --> 01:15:58.920
side of your truck already spaced properly you

01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:01.279
just i think the only well i guess it wouldn't

01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:03.659
matter what size box because i was going to say

01:16:03.659 --> 01:16:05.420
that what would matter would be the spacing on

01:16:05.420 --> 01:16:07.859
your box but they all put them in pretty much

01:16:07.859 --> 01:16:10.739
the same places I'd space them for the biggest

01:16:10.739 --> 01:16:13.359
box and that would be it. Biggest box and the

01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:19.619
metal sides because that's the widest. Yeah,

01:16:19.680 --> 01:16:22.279
I would have it set up specifically to fit the

01:16:22.279 --> 01:16:24.840
biggest packout box and then anything would fit

01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:28.960
after that. And by doing that, I'm not going

01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:31.060
to have packouts on there all the time. No. Because

01:16:31.060 --> 01:16:33.140
when I throw my 10 up there, I'm not going to

01:16:33.140 --> 01:16:36.800
have packouts up there as much. But it would

01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:39.279
be so convenient. Like, the packouts that are

01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:41.619
the size of our individual packout setups, I

01:16:41.619 --> 01:16:44.220
would just slap that up there. Yep. I could line

01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:46.460
my entire truck with everything I need right

01:16:46.460 --> 01:16:49.600
there, tools, whatever. And if we're not taking

01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:52.460
the trailer, I can now take whatever tools we

01:16:52.460 --> 01:16:54.539
should have with us and put them up there off

01:16:54.539 --> 01:16:56.800
the trailer. Yep. But then if we are taking the

01:16:56.800 --> 01:16:58.319
trailer, we can just put them on the trailer.

01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:06.050
Mm -hmm. So, really. Our trailer, for anyone

01:17:06.050 --> 01:17:09.630
who doesn't know, it's not necessarily a crazy

01:17:09.630 --> 01:17:12.250
overland built trailer. It's literally just a

01:17:12.250 --> 01:17:15.090
flat trailer with packout mounts. Yep. So that

01:17:15.090 --> 01:17:17.729
we can put whatever we need to on it. Mm -hmm.

01:17:20.130 --> 01:17:22.630
And I kind of just want to follow that through

01:17:22.630 --> 01:17:24.670
with the truck. I mean, the back is already pretty

01:17:24.670 --> 01:17:30.529
much all packout mounts. Yeah. We're on Saturday,

01:17:30.590 --> 01:17:33.930
right? Yes, we're on Saturday now. Okay. Sorry

01:17:33.930 --> 01:17:36.890
for the rant. Packouts are amazing, even though

01:17:36.890 --> 01:17:39.829
they're expensive as piss. And trend is definitely

01:17:39.829 --> 01:17:44.369
taking off in most of our groups. I saw a lot

01:17:44.369 --> 01:17:49.130
of packouts, both on other non -MST trucks and

01:17:49.130 --> 01:17:54.149
MST trucks this weekend. It's taken off. You

01:17:54.149 --> 01:17:56.789
know, the one thing, I get Milwaukee's color

01:17:56.789 --> 01:18:00.199
scheme. The one thing that if I could change

01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:02.899
it would be that they offered pack outs in different

01:18:02.899 --> 01:18:07.420
colors. I would love the black ones from the

01:18:07.420 --> 01:18:10.680
UK. The black pack outs. I will spray paint every

01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:15.840
one of my pack outs if I use them. Probably every

01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:18.119
pack out on our trailer is going to get painted.

01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:22.100
I hate red. Yeah, me too. It is. Oh, it is ugly.

01:18:22.220 --> 01:18:26.199
But the box itself, everything it gives us is

01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:32.189
worth it. Yep. So, we're on Saturday, though.

01:18:32.350 --> 01:18:36.829
Yep. Saturday, we woke up. We were kind of moving

01:18:36.829 --> 01:18:41.770
slow. We had made arrangements. My wife became

01:18:41.770 --> 01:18:45.649
really good friends with Busted to Built's wife,

01:18:46.050 --> 01:18:52.350
Megan. So, we kind of, they made plans for us

01:18:52.350 --> 01:18:56.710
to go find horses. Because. You got to remember.

01:18:57.659 --> 01:18:59.939
Early Saturday morning, what you and me had to

01:18:59.939 --> 01:19:03.399
do before we even hit the trail. Oh, right. I

01:19:03.399 --> 01:19:05.840
was missing a shock bushing, so we had to go

01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:08.460
into town and buy a shock for my truck, which

01:19:08.460 --> 01:19:11.060
I took the bushing off of and then returned the

01:19:11.060 --> 01:19:15.680
shock. So I got a free bushing. Don't do that.

01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:18.739
It's bad. I'm basically a thief. Basically a

01:19:18.739 --> 01:19:23.180
thief. Basically, he says. The clear definition

01:19:23.180 --> 01:19:29.710
isn't there. So. We fixed my shock bushing. I

01:19:29.710 --> 01:19:33.890
say fixed. It's not fixed. It's just usable now.

01:19:34.569 --> 01:19:37.689
I got to buy Icon bushings because they're way

01:19:37.689 --> 01:19:44.350
beefier. So then, oh, then while we were in town,

01:19:44.489 --> 01:19:48.250
I got a text from my boss that my birds tested

01:19:48.250 --> 01:19:54.689
positive for MG. MG is a step down from AI in.

01:19:55.619 --> 01:19:59.380
spreadability and at this point we didn't know

01:19:59.380 --> 01:20:04.039
if it had left the other barn yet but if it had

01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:06.100
left the other barn at this point their plan

01:20:06.100 --> 01:20:10.020
was to depop my farm and kill all my birds that

01:20:10.020 --> 01:20:13.760
would have made my next like probably six months

01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:17.640
absolute fucking hell for anybody who doesn't

01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:24.109
know ai is anal influenza Yes. I'm sorry. It's

01:20:24.109 --> 01:20:28.949
avian influenza. Sorry. But just so anybody knows,

01:20:29.130 --> 01:20:32.989
because he's speaking like we know chicken terms.

01:20:33.630 --> 01:20:37.729
Right. And I cannot pronounce the actual name

01:20:37.729 --> 01:20:40.050
for MG, so I'm not even going to attempt it.

01:20:40.090 --> 01:20:42.430
Look it up. Look up MG and turkeys. It's really

01:20:42.430 --> 01:20:48.670
bad. Machine guns. So we... At this point, we

01:20:48.670 --> 01:20:50.750
didn't know if it had jumped, but if it had,

01:20:50.810 --> 01:20:53.750
they planned on killing all the birds. I'm not

01:20:53.750 --> 01:20:55.609
going to get into what happened in the last couple

01:20:55.609 --> 01:20:57.489
of days, but I mean, I'm not going to get into

01:20:57.489 --> 01:21:00.109
it later, so I'll just do it now. We're not killing

01:21:00.109 --> 01:21:03.329
all the birds, but all of them have MG. It is

01:21:03.329 --> 01:21:05.949
treatable, but we're just going to skip a flock

01:21:05.949 --> 01:21:09.729
cycle and clean out every barn as we go and treat

01:21:09.729 --> 01:21:12.810
it to kill the MG before it spreads to new birds.

01:21:12.970 --> 01:21:18.399
Yep. It's not going to be convenient, but it's

01:21:18.399 --> 01:21:22.039
way better than killing everything. I mean, I've

01:21:22.039 --> 01:21:25.300
got right now probably, I think it's like 20

01:21:25.300 --> 01:21:27.479
million or something like that in inventory.

01:21:27.539 --> 01:21:30.359
I say inventory, it's livestock. I've got a lot

01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:34.899
of birds. Yep. So we're not killing them. Thank

01:21:34.899 --> 01:21:39.579
God. You have 20 million in those barns? Price

01:21:39.579 --> 01:21:42.100
-wise, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's, that's what

01:21:42.100 --> 01:21:44.460
I was. Yeah. I'm like, there's no way you have

01:21:44.460 --> 01:21:49.520
20 million birds in there. Yeah. You're exaggerating

01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:53.899
a tad. If we had killed all the birds by the

01:21:53.899 --> 01:21:56.899
time we were back to regular, um, production,

01:21:57.060 --> 01:21:59.199
it would have been about $20 million in losses.

01:22:00.340 --> 01:22:03.479
So. It's not even necessarily that I have $20

01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:05.819
million worth of birds on the farm right now.

01:22:06.180 --> 01:22:08.699
It's just by the time that everything was said

01:22:08.699 --> 01:22:10.680
and done, that's what we would have lost. Yep.

01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:13.800
Man, that's a lot of money. Yeah, you need a

01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:15.979
raise. And they don't pay me jack shit. Right?

01:22:16.819 --> 01:22:21.180
Fuck. So we're not doing that. We're going to

01:22:21.180 --> 01:22:25.920
treat them. Thank God. It's been a really rough

01:22:25.920 --> 01:22:28.399
couple of days. I'll just. Leave it at that.

01:22:28.460 --> 01:22:31.579
I have a fear of going out of town because every

01:22:31.579 --> 01:22:34.420
time I come back, things have gone to hell. Yeah.

01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:41.560
That is how it works, my friend. So, yeah, so

01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:43.640
we get back to camp and then we head out on our

01:22:43.640 --> 01:22:46.640
little - Overheated. Oh, Mark overheated. Mark

01:22:46.640 --> 01:22:49.619
overheated. So we decided to see if it was my

01:22:49.619 --> 01:22:54.760
- Thermostat. Thermostat. So we ended up removing

01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:59.250
it. Yep. Just to force cold air, see if that

01:22:59.250 --> 01:23:03.289
fixed it. Yeah, so we removed the thermostat

01:23:03.289 --> 01:23:06.489
to just allow it to, you know, flow water just

01:23:06.489 --> 01:23:10.729
all the time. Then we got back out on the trail,

01:23:10.869 --> 01:23:12.670
now with Busted to Build, which, by the way,

01:23:12.770 --> 01:23:15.550
watching that Tahoe work is fucking awesome.

01:23:15.590 --> 01:23:17.970
It is awesome. That thing is so fun to watch.

01:23:19.489 --> 01:23:22.689
We have to get him on at some point. I talked

01:23:22.689 --> 01:23:24.529
to him about it this weekend, and he's so down.

01:23:24.710 --> 01:23:28.020
Yep. Go look him up, Busted to Build on YouTube.

01:23:28.619 --> 01:23:33.399
Fantastic. So we get back out on the trail, and

01:23:33.399 --> 01:23:37.539
we make it not even half a mile. Yeah. And Mark

01:23:37.539 --> 01:23:40.520
goes, I'm overheating. I'm like, all right, are

01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:42.039
you going back to camp? And he's like, yeah,

01:23:42.060 --> 01:23:46.699
I'll go back to camp. So we continue on our quest

01:23:46.699 --> 01:23:49.060
to find horses. I don't remember what trail we

01:23:49.060 --> 01:23:53.470
were on at this point. 101. Was it just 101?

01:23:53.670 --> 01:23:56.130
Yeah. The main trail going through all there

01:23:56.130 --> 01:23:59.590
was 101. I know you had all the side shoots,

01:23:59.710 --> 01:24:04.930
but 101 I literally followed. Yeah, and I don't

01:24:04.930 --> 01:24:06.729
think we took any side shoots. I think we just

01:24:06.729 --> 01:24:10.670
followed 101 as well. I can't even find Leatherwood.

01:24:13.310 --> 01:24:17.149
There it is. So, yeah, we just followed 101,

01:24:17.310 --> 01:24:22.960
and we came up to a group of three horses. which

01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:26.140
I see horses every day. You know, I have horses.

01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:29.859
The wild horses are so much cooler than my horses.

01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:32.819
Like my horses are assholes. These guys walked

01:24:32.819 --> 01:24:35.659
right up to our truck. They let us, we got out,

01:24:35.699 --> 01:24:37.779
we're petting them. I almost got on one and then

01:24:37.779 --> 01:24:40.739
decided my wife was like, that's not a good idea.

01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:45.300
And I'm like, she's probably right. Buzzkill.

01:24:47.220 --> 01:24:53.819
It was awesome, man. Like I, Yeah, I can't even

01:24:53.819 --> 01:24:55.899
put into words. The horses were probably the

01:24:55.899 --> 01:24:59.399
second best part of the whole trip. And that

01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:01.220
first group of three, there were three geldings,

01:25:01.279 --> 01:25:04.319
two older ones and a yearling. Fantastic. They

01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:06.920
were super friendly. The yearling was a little

01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:09.380
skittish, but after some warming up, I got him

01:25:09.380 --> 01:25:12.720
to let me pet him. And then we're like, well,

01:25:12.819 --> 01:25:15.659
I hear there's more if we keep going. So we go,

01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:17.960
continue on down the trail, and we come up to

01:25:17.960 --> 01:25:20.239
this group of probably, what would you say, 15

01:25:20.239 --> 01:25:23.979
or 20 of them? Yeah. There were a bunch. There

01:25:23.979 --> 01:25:26.699
was a bunch. And there were four babies and two

01:25:26.699 --> 01:25:31.460
donkeys. And a mule. And a mule, yeah. I wanted

01:25:31.460 --> 01:25:33.720
to pet a donkey so bad, but they wouldn't even

01:25:33.720 --> 01:25:36.880
let me get close. The mule would come right up

01:25:36.880 --> 01:25:39.760
to me and stand just out of arm's reach. And

01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:41.380
then when I reached out to pet him, he would

01:25:41.380 --> 01:25:43.720
try to nibble my fingers, but he would not let

01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:48.079
me touch him. He was driving me nuts. Then I

01:25:48.079 --> 01:25:51.170
tried to pet. a couple of mares and they were

01:25:51.170 --> 01:25:55.369
not having it with their babies right there but

01:25:55.369 --> 01:25:57.350
while i'm over here trying to you know pet a

01:25:57.350 --> 01:25:59.869
baby or a donkey or a mule or something cool

01:25:59.869 --> 01:26:03.829
um duncan has not gotten out of his truck at

01:26:03.829 --> 01:26:06.350
all and he's sitting there and one of the uh

01:26:06.350 --> 01:26:09.329
the studs just keeps picking up his backpack

01:26:09.329 --> 01:26:11.949
and trying to take it out of the truck like he's

01:26:11.949 --> 01:26:17.399
trying to steal duncan shit so we we probably

01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:19.920
sat and played with them for a good 30 35 minutes

01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:22.359
like it was it was so fun man and they were super

01:26:22.359 --> 01:26:27.960
friendly yes they were um so then we get back

01:26:27.960 --> 01:26:31.239
on the trail we make it 20 feet and we hear mark

01:26:31.239 --> 01:26:34.739
over the radio this motherfucker had limped his

01:26:34.739 --> 01:26:37.180
truck all the way out there because he was not

01:26:37.180 --> 01:26:42.789
giving up wheeling no so now back to me we got

01:26:42.789 --> 01:26:45.069
back to cam i'm trying to figure out like what

01:26:45.069 --> 01:26:47.609
what is going on with my truck besides overheating

01:26:47.609 --> 01:26:49.409
like there has to be something to work around

01:26:49.409 --> 01:26:54.170
so i looked up hill climb issues with steep hills

01:26:54.170 --> 01:26:56.409
and i was like yeah we put it in low gear so

01:26:56.409 --> 01:26:58.810
i'm like oh so it must be a low gear thing so

01:26:58.810 --> 01:27:00.569
i was like all right alan i'm gonna try something

01:27:00.569 --> 01:27:03.850
stupid we got a trail right above us to test

01:27:03.850 --> 01:27:07.149
this theory so we went up to what we did the

01:27:07.149 --> 01:27:11.680
first very first night or day i should say and

01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:15.260
i went up there not issues i slapped in too low

01:27:15.260 --> 01:27:18.060
and then slapped in a four -wheel climbed up

01:27:18.060 --> 01:27:20.520
without any major overheating issues i'm like

01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:23.300
all right we're gonna go back to 101 and make

01:27:23.300 --> 01:27:25.439
our way through there if i have overheating i'll

01:27:25.439 --> 01:27:31.220
turn back and call it a day so i actually tire

01:27:31.220 --> 01:27:34.039
time that way i didn't have any major overheating

01:27:34.039 --> 01:27:38.010
issues I noticed a little bit of jump when we

01:27:38.010 --> 01:27:40.470
went uphill, but it wasn't significant enough

01:27:40.470 --> 01:27:42.449
like it did the first time. So, like, all right,

01:27:42.489 --> 01:27:48.229
we're going to keep going. So, I think it was

01:27:48.229 --> 01:27:50.949
when we got past the three horses when we started

01:27:50.949 --> 01:27:54.930
picking up your node. Which, we made a major

01:27:54.930 --> 01:27:58.029
breakthrough with nodes this weekend. Oh, yeah.

01:27:58.989 --> 01:28:02.800
Custom channels, it's the way. Yeah. So I was

01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:04.680
following you on ATAC, and I was following the

01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:07.039
trail because on the ATAC map I was using, you

01:28:07.039 --> 01:28:09.039
could see the trail line. I'm like, oh, it looks

01:28:09.039 --> 01:28:10.600
like Alec is over here on this trail, so we're

01:28:10.600 --> 01:28:17.260
definitely on the right track. Yeah. So we met

01:28:17.260 --> 01:28:19.359
up. They went and looked at the horses while

01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:21.439
we continued on, and they got caught up at some

01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:24.720
point. Yep. And then we made it back to camp.

01:28:25.640 --> 01:28:27.819
I don't even remember what we did. We just kind

01:28:27.819 --> 01:28:31.890
of packed up Saturday night. Yeah. And then hung

01:28:31.890 --> 01:28:33.789
out with Ed and Rebecca at the fire for a little

01:28:33.789 --> 01:28:35.869
while. And then we also tried the power lines.

01:28:37.350 --> 01:28:41.770
Oh, yeah. That was fun. We tried power line ridge.

01:28:41.850 --> 01:28:44.409
I don't even think there's a trail marker for

01:28:44.409 --> 01:28:49.189
it. I don't think so. Now that I say that. Let

01:28:49.189 --> 01:28:52.090
me see. I got through the first half pretty well.

01:28:53.890 --> 01:28:56.430
It's basically just a straight up. It's just

01:28:56.430 --> 01:29:01.039
straight up. Yeah. There's. Okay, so it's marked

01:29:01.039 --> 01:29:06.739
as 105, it looks like. Yeah, it's 105 on Onyx.

01:29:07.479 --> 01:29:13.439
And it is just a straight, I mean, it's a wild

01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:16.659
hill climb. Yep. You can kind of see it. It just

01:29:16.659 --> 01:29:18.819
follows the power lines there. If you look up

01:29:18.819 --> 01:29:24.779
105 on Onyx and follow it up. It was, it's beautiful.

01:29:24.920 --> 01:29:28.840
It looked like fun. Watching the Tahoe not be

01:29:28.840 --> 01:29:31.020
able to make it kind of told me that I couldn't

01:29:31.020 --> 01:29:33.960
make it. Yeah, that part of the hill climb. So,

01:29:34.020 --> 01:29:38.500
yeah, that was the – it's a double red, but it's

01:29:38.500 --> 01:29:43.399
not even marked on Onyx, which is funny. So I

01:29:43.399 --> 01:29:46.720
didn't do that, and then we kind of went – me

01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:49.359
and the Tahoe went up 105. We were just going

01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:51.680
to finish it out, but Mark turned around, so

01:29:51.680 --> 01:29:53.960
we turned around to see what was up. Yeah, I

01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:55.880
couldn't climb it, and I was starting to overheat.

01:29:56.170 --> 01:30:00.949
So, like, no, I'm not going to push it. So, we

01:30:00.949 --> 01:30:03.729
turned around, met back up with Mark, and then

01:30:03.729 --> 01:30:08.390
Mark went back to camp. Yep. And me and the Tahoe

01:30:08.390 --> 01:30:13.170
went and played in Welcome to the Jungle a little

01:30:13.170 --> 01:30:15.510
bit. Oh, Welcome to the Jungle. Which is the

01:30:15.510 --> 01:30:17.710
playground. Oh, okay. I thought it was a separate

01:30:17.710 --> 01:30:21.199
show. no they're the same thing oh yeah like

01:30:21.199 --> 01:30:23.420
what they call drive shaft alley that's what

01:30:23.420 --> 01:30:25.960
we were trying to get the tahoe up that was so

01:30:25.960 --> 01:30:30.300
freaking fun dude like that that whole trail

01:30:30.300 --> 01:30:35.100
is just it's wild it's fun yeah uh then we went

01:30:35.100 --> 01:30:38.239
back to camp and just packed up because it was

01:30:38.239 --> 01:30:40.560
supposed to rain all of sunday morning so we

01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.460
got as much packed up as we could yeah um saturday

01:30:44.460 --> 01:30:52.130
night yep Then we sat around the fire for a couple

01:30:52.130 --> 01:30:55.329
hours and went to bed. A little earlier than

01:30:55.329 --> 01:30:59.850
the night before. Yeah, yeah, a little bit. Then

01:30:59.850 --> 01:31:04.029
we originally had talked about leaving camp around,

01:31:04.109 --> 01:31:07.050
like, I think we were talking about 1 on Sunday.

01:31:07.270 --> 01:31:09.170
Yeah, we were originally talking about that time.

01:31:09.550 --> 01:31:11.250
Yeah, we were talking about leaving around 1

01:31:11.250 --> 01:31:13.250
and just making it halfway back, stopping and

01:31:13.250 --> 01:31:17.210
camping, and then continuing on. But... I think

01:31:17.210 --> 01:31:19.850
we were all just kind of done with it by Sunday

01:31:19.850 --> 01:31:22.850
morning. Because we had two trucks that were

01:31:22.850 --> 01:31:26.149
overheating. Oh, and Duncan's alternator went

01:31:26.149 --> 01:31:30.489
out. Oh, that too. Yeah. So we had two trucks

01:31:30.489 --> 01:31:33.109
overheating, and one of the trucks that was overheating

01:31:33.109 --> 01:31:35.609
wasn't charging itself. And we thought we were

01:31:35.609 --> 01:31:37.789
going to have a Drummond Island scouting mission

01:31:37.789 --> 01:31:43.069
again. Yeah. Another recap on packouts, right?

01:31:43.789 --> 01:31:46.800
I think. And I recommend this to all listeners

01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:50.000
and everybody. Everybody should do this. Build

01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:53.560
some kind of pack -out battery box. Doesn't have

01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:55.899
to be your main truck battery, but have it tie

01:31:55.899 --> 01:31:59.260
into your main truck battery. Because then, let's

01:31:59.260 --> 01:32:01.760
say our group of three, if one of us had been

01:32:01.760 --> 01:32:04.880
running an extra pack -out battery, we could

01:32:04.880 --> 01:32:07.060
have just swapped it into the truck and continued

01:32:07.060 --> 01:32:09.800
on. And just done that repeatedly, allowing the

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:12.000
alternator of the other truck to charge it. Yep.

01:32:12.659 --> 01:32:16.359
So, I think... At least me, Mark, and Duncan

01:32:16.359 --> 01:32:20.460
are going to do that. Just because if you have

01:32:20.460 --> 01:32:22.739
an alternator go out, we can limp a truck along

01:32:22.739 --> 01:32:26.619
without having to be tethered that way. You've

01:32:26.619 --> 01:32:29.779
even been in this situation twice now. Duncan

01:32:29.779 --> 01:32:34.739
was a little better than Joe's experience. Yeah,

01:32:34.739 --> 01:32:36.880
because luckily, we didn't know this yet, but

01:32:36.880 --> 01:32:39.960
Duncan's truck still charged. It just, it was

01:32:39.960 --> 01:32:43.659
barely enough to keep the truck on. Yep. So.

01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:47.500
Yeah, I highly recommend build a battery box

01:32:47.500 --> 01:32:50.000
with an Anderson connector on it, preferably

01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:52.439
a packout battery box, because then it's just

01:32:52.439 --> 01:32:59.119
clicking into a packout plate. So I'm going to

01:32:59.119 --> 01:33:01.239
build another one of those for my truck. So I

01:33:01.239 --> 01:33:04.479
have two batteries and then I'm going to at least

01:33:04.479 --> 01:33:07.479
have a location on Mark and Duncan's truck for

01:33:07.479 --> 01:33:10.779
a battery that can tie right to their main battery.

01:33:12.619 --> 01:33:17.939
So. So we came up with that idea and then went

01:33:17.939 --> 01:33:21.340
to sleep Saturday night, woke up Sunday. We got

01:33:21.340 --> 01:33:24.579
on the road, was it 8 .30, 9 o 'clock? I want

01:33:24.579 --> 01:33:29.100
to say yes. I know it was early, but we got on

01:33:29.100 --> 01:33:32.300
the road pretty early. We headed, first we went

01:33:32.300 --> 01:33:35.579
to Lexington was the plan. By the way, Lexington

01:33:35.579 --> 01:33:40.300
is absolutely fucking beautiful. We went to the

01:33:40.300 --> 01:33:43.970
O 'Reilly's that had Mark's. radiator in stock

01:33:43.970 --> 01:33:47.189
yep which happened to be a hub yes and we met

01:33:47.189 --> 01:33:49.850
the world's coolest o'reilly's employee who is

01:33:49.850 --> 01:33:52.789
now a listener and i don't remember his name

01:33:52.789 --> 01:33:57.850
but o'reilly's guy from the lexington hub you're

01:33:57.850 --> 01:34:02.670
the freaking goat um he gave me a tour of the

01:34:02.670 --> 01:34:06.010
hub and was like showing me turbos off like tanks

01:34:06.010 --> 01:34:09.050
and stuff like it was there was some crazy shit

01:34:09.050 --> 01:34:12.829
back there he pulled out a box a wooden o'reilly's

01:34:12.829 --> 01:34:17.630
parts box from the 1930s oh geez like it was

01:34:17.630 --> 01:34:20.609
it was cool man they had they had a turbo room

01:34:20.609 --> 01:34:26.310
they had a wiper room like it was it was so cool

01:34:26.310 --> 01:34:30.470
um so yeah we got to do that we got mark's radiator

01:34:30.470 --> 01:34:33.149
swapped we put a new alternator in duncan's truck

01:34:33.149 --> 01:34:38.420
uh got Oh, and speaking of the radiator, the

01:34:38.420 --> 01:34:40.439
radiator was definitely bad. It had material

01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:44.619
in it, like dry clay. Yeah. By the time we drained

01:34:44.619 --> 01:34:49.600
it. Also, Mark's bumper had to come off to swap

01:34:49.600 --> 01:34:54.920
the radiator. Yeah, that was not fun. And bushings

01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:59.479
and shit and other stuff was bad. Yeah, so. It

01:34:59.479 --> 01:35:03.140
was not a fun experience. We got it fixed. Next

01:35:03.140 --> 01:35:05.140
time it'll be easier because of some of the mods

01:35:05.140 --> 01:35:10.279
we did. Yep. I mean, please don't have your radiator

01:35:10.279 --> 01:35:12.880
go bad again. That sucked. Yeah. I don't plan

01:35:12.880 --> 01:35:15.140
on it. I want to say that's the original radiator,

01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:18.520
isn't it? In all honesty. Probably. And I'm almost

01:35:18.520 --> 01:35:23.899
at 200 ,000 miles, so. But, so we got everything

01:35:23.899 --> 01:35:27.460
fixed. We got back on the road. Duncan's truck

01:35:27.460 --> 01:35:29.340
was charging right. Mark's truck was cooling

01:35:29.340 --> 01:35:32.739
right. And we made it. I don't know, 50 miles,

01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:36.119
and I hear over the radio, my truck's getting

01:35:36.119 --> 01:35:40.380
warm. I swear to God. If there's any word, this

01:35:40.380 --> 01:35:42.819
is going to be the show title of both of these

01:35:42.819 --> 01:35:44.720
episodes. It's not going to be Leatherwood Trip.

01:35:44.819 --> 01:35:47.220
It's going to be My Truck's Getting Warm, Part

01:35:47.220 --> 01:35:52.220
1. I heard it over the radio. I had PTSD from

01:35:52.220 --> 01:35:55.180
hearing the words, my truck's warm. I could tell

01:35:55.180 --> 01:35:58.119
by how frazzled you got while talking about it.

01:35:58.840 --> 01:36:03.619
Jesus, dude. Duncan's truck still is not cooling

01:36:03.619 --> 01:36:08.619
right. We limped at home. We were just kind of

01:36:08.619 --> 01:36:11.159
done at this point. I think we stopped, tried

01:36:11.159 --> 01:36:15.119
to burp it, didn't do anything, so we just headed

01:36:15.119 --> 01:36:19.119
home. That's kind of what I don't like about,

01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:23.500
like, line and back trips. It's like by the time

01:36:23.500 --> 01:36:26.100
you're done with that trip, you're done, done.

01:36:26.439 --> 01:36:30.140
Oh, yeah. It's kind of why I enjoy loop trips.

01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:34.619
You know, like your middle camp spots, like the

01:36:34.619 --> 01:36:36.560
second day in, and then you still have two more

01:36:36.560 --> 01:36:40.619
days to come on the way back. So it's like the

01:36:40.619 --> 01:36:42.779
last day, yeah, you're still kind of like done,

01:36:42.960 --> 01:36:47.000
but you're not like exhausted from it. I mean,

01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:49.300
but that was a lot of stuff you guys had in a

01:36:49.300 --> 01:36:51.960
short amount of time. I think it was better than

01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:54.060
the seven -hour planet crash trail incident.

01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:57.479
That one was a really, I'm done and we're going

01:36:57.479 --> 01:37:00.710
home. We should not have went home that night.

01:37:00.710 --> 01:37:04.510
No, we shouldn't have. I actually, we should

01:37:04.510 --> 01:37:07.489
do like a 30 minute on that at some point because

01:37:07.489 --> 01:37:09.590
I don't know that I've ever heard the story on

01:37:09.590 --> 01:37:12.810
that. About when my lower ball joint failed and

01:37:12.810 --> 01:37:16.590
why my fender is now sticker bombed? Yeah. I

01:37:16.590 --> 01:37:18.329
thought we talked about that one, but we can

01:37:18.329 --> 01:37:20.970
do that. I don't remember. We've done a lot of

01:37:20.970 --> 01:37:24.350
episodes, so maybe we should do just one or a

01:37:24.350 --> 01:37:27.770
15. Maybe I'll just have Alex join me on. On

01:37:27.770 --> 01:37:31.590
mine, and we'll just do a 15 on the seven -hour

01:37:31.590 --> 01:37:35.250
plane crash trail. I think we're on, like, aside

01:37:35.250 --> 01:37:37.289
from the fact that we split it up by seasons,

01:37:37.409 --> 01:37:42.090
I think that this is, like, episode 66. Yeah,

01:37:42.149 --> 01:37:46.949
we got quite a bit. Like, we've been killing

01:37:46.949 --> 01:37:50.789
it, guys. Yes, we had 22 episodes on season one,

01:37:50.909 --> 01:37:54.689
and we are currently at, this will be episode

01:37:54.689 --> 01:38:00.840
42 of season two. So that's a lot of episodes.

01:38:01.600 --> 01:38:07.640
But yeah, so I would say that that incident sucked

01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:10.619
because we were ill -prepared. We had tools with

01:38:10.619 --> 01:38:14.079
us, not quite the right tools. Not all the tools.

01:38:14.840 --> 01:38:17.539
We didn't know as much as we do about the Toyota

01:38:17.539 --> 01:38:23.489
platforms then as we do now. I mean, it was just

01:38:23.489 --> 01:38:25.390
an ill -prepared thing. We just weren't ready

01:38:25.390 --> 01:38:29.890
to be doing what we were doing. Yeah. Ah, shit,

01:38:29.970 --> 01:38:33.569
my phone's ringing. I'm going to mute myself.

01:38:33.670 --> 01:38:36.770
I'll be back. Yeah. You guys kind of talk along.

01:38:37.449 --> 01:38:44.670
Yeah. Well, we got two huckleberries now? Yeah.

01:38:45.510 --> 01:38:50.229
Huh. So it just shut me out out of here. I'm

01:38:50.229 --> 01:38:55.789
not sure what happened. yeah but yeah the the

01:38:55.789 --> 01:38:58.710
we were very ill prepared for seven hour plane

01:38:58.710 --> 01:39:01.750
crash trail i think that's a lot of why we built

01:39:01.750 --> 01:39:05.750
the trailer for was because of our incident 100

01:39:05.750 --> 01:39:12.409
percent um yeah but so we got the trucks fixed

01:39:12.409 --> 01:39:15.029
we got back on the road We had the little overheating

01:39:15.029 --> 01:39:17.909
thing, and we just booked it for a little while,

01:39:17.989 --> 01:39:20.609
and I had a shake that just kept getting worse.

01:39:21.329 --> 01:39:27.310
And finally, I pulled over, and I'm like, guys,

01:39:27.350 --> 01:39:29.850
I just can't handle it anymore. Jacked up my

01:39:29.850 --> 01:39:32.029
driver's side first, checked it. There was a

01:39:32.029 --> 01:39:35.829
little wiggle. Pulled my dust cover off to the

01:39:35.829 --> 01:39:40.090
CV axle. Sure enough, my CV axle was loose. Tightened

01:39:40.090 --> 01:39:42.579
it up, put it all back together. My fix was,

01:39:42.640 --> 01:39:46.520
what, 10 minutes, maybe? Yeah. Like, it was fast.

01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:50.500
Then we got back on the road, and guess what?

01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:53.899
My shake was gone. He says his fix was fast because

01:39:53.899 --> 01:39:56.600
he doesn't want to add any this year. Well, mine

01:39:56.600 --> 01:40:01.199
was two hours of fixing O 'Reilly's. Mine was

01:40:01.199 --> 01:40:03.859
10 minutes at a gas station. We really should

01:40:03.859 --> 01:40:07.109
buy a bunch of, like, black X's. And every time

01:40:07.109 --> 01:40:08.909
something happens to your truck, it gets a little

01:40:08.909 --> 01:40:11.649
black X. At the end of the year, we clear it

01:40:11.649 --> 01:40:15.789
off. Clean slate. And then we just tally them

01:40:15.789 --> 01:40:18.970
up. We'll have an episode where we tally the

01:40:18.970 --> 01:40:25.670
Xs. So then I'm on three incidents now? For this

01:40:25.670 --> 01:40:28.970
year, I'm on one. Yeah, I don't know. If you

01:40:28.970 --> 01:40:31.109
count every time you overheated, you might have

01:40:31.109 --> 01:40:33.529
been a bad wreck this weekend. No, I wouldn't

01:40:33.529 --> 01:40:35.770
count overheating. I'm saying, like, broken parts.

01:40:36.010 --> 01:40:40.010
I'm just thinking that. I know the major one

01:40:40.010 --> 01:40:43.210
was when I bit the crap out of my control arm.

01:40:44.069 --> 01:40:46.829
Yeah. I don't know. We'd have to talk about categories

01:40:46.829 --> 01:40:48.449
because I would say anything that makes your

01:40:48.449 --> 01:40:52.449
truck break down. And break down to me, overheating

01:40:52.449 --> 01:40:56.619
is pretty much that. Well, never overheated.

01:40:56.619 --> 01:40:58.960
It just was getting warm. We pulled over before

01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:01.140
it overheated. I didn't have it shooting out

01:41:01.140 --> 01:41:04.659
of the radiator. Well, that's extreme. But like

01:41:04.659 --> 01:41:07.180
if it stops the flow of things and you have to

01:41:07.180 --> 01:41:10.439
stop and wait. So we got that fixed. And then

01:41:10.439 --> 01:41:15.319
after that, we actually. Oh, yeah. So after that,

01:41:15.460 --> 01:41:17.939
a little while later, my shake was kind of. It

01:41:17.939 --> 01:41:20.140
wasn't even that my shake was coming back. I

01:41:20.140 --> 01:41:22.699
thought that my front hood was starting to slope

01:41:22.699 --> 01:41:26.579
more to the right. So I told Duncan, go on ahead.

01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:28.760
I know you have to work in the morning and we

01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:31.199
don't. I'm going to pull over and check my tire

01:41:31.199 --> 01:41:33.060
and make sure it's not going flat. Yeah, we were

01:41:33.060 --> 01:41:37.079
in Indiana at this point. So I pull over. I put

01:41:37.079 --> 01:41:38.899
the pressure gauge on it. Everything's fine.

01:41:39.060 --> 01:41:43.060
We get right back on the road. We're cruising

01:41:43.060 --> 01:41:47.739
along and I hear my phone go off. And then almost

01:41:47.739 --> 01:41:49.840
as soon as my phone goes off, there's Duncan

01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:53.500
on the side of the road. That was funny. He pulled

01:41:53.500 --> 01:41:56.420
over to wait for us and sent us a text. Let me

01:41:56.420 --> 01:41:58.380
know when you're close. I'll accelerate to match

01:41:58.380 --> 01:42:01.420
your speed. But when he sent that text, we were

01:42:01.420 --> 01:42:05.859
zooming by him. I was actually watching all these

01:42:05.859 --> 01:42:11.939
texts come in. Yeah, it was the weekend of Shakedown,

01:42:11.939 --> 01:42:16.039
right? The weekend after Shakedown. Oh, okay,

01:42:16.199 --> 01:42:19.140
yeah. Shakedown was the previous weekend. I'm

01:42:19.140 --> 01:42:21.560
watching all this stuff come in, and I'm just

01:42:21.560 --> 01:42:24.659
like, oh, shit. I'm seeing stuff on Facebook

01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:27.399
about people broke down. I'm seeing this. I'm

01:42:27.399 --> 01:42:29.960
seeing that. And I'm like, holy shit, this is

01:42:29.960 --> 01:42:34.000
going to be an interesting episode. Yeah. He

01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:36.479
gives us the address and says, just pulled over.

01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:41.819
And as he said that, we're just like, zoom. Yeah,

01:42:41.960 --> 01:42:44.380
so that happened. And then I think we stopped

01:42:44.380 --> 01:42:46.939
one more time after that to get gas. No, two

01:42:46.939 --> 01:42:49.899
more times. Two more times. One more time in

01:42:49.899 --> 01:42:52.859
northern Indiana and then one more time in Michigan.

01:42:53.119 --> 01:42:56.460
Yep. But it was smooth sailing the rest of the

01:42:56.460 --> 01:43:00.079
way. I mean, because it had gotten cooler outside,

01:43:00.359 --> 01:43:03.720
no one's trucks were, you know, warm. Yep. We

01:43:03.720 --> 01:43:06.439
also had rain go through again. Yeah. Got back

01:43:06.439 --> 01:43:12.680
to the right sea level. Yeah. I don't know. 400

01:43:12.680 --> 01:43:14.760
was happy. It was in its element, man. Yeah.

01:43:14.840 --> 01:43:16.739
It must have been from the south or something

01:43:16.739 --> 01:43:19.729
at some point. She was like, oh, yeah, I remember

01:43:19.729 --> 01:43:22.590
this. I know what to do. Mine was a Southern

01:43:22.590 --> 01:43:25.729
one. Bought brand new. Bought brand new in Wisconsin.

01:43:26.350 --> 01:43:29.550
I think mine was Virginia. Well, then yours is

01:43:29.550 --> 01:43:32.789
just sad. Well, I mean, we knew why yours overheated.

01:43:33.069 --> 01:43:36.949
Yeah. So I have the list here that I was reading

01:43:36.949 --> 01:43:39.329
while everyone was at Leatherwood. I just want

01:43:39.329 --> 01:43:41.729
to read out all the damage that was done that

01:43:41.729 --> 01:43:44.470
weekend. Go ahead. I'm going to read it from

01:43:44.470 --> 01:43:47.810
the top here. Mark overheated a few times, but

01:43:47.810 --> 01:43:50.050
after flushing the radiator fins with water and

01:43:50.050 --> 01:43:52.170
clearing out a bunch of mud, it seems to be well.

01:43:52.449 --> 01:43:56.109
You guys now know the whole story on that. Ed

01:43:56.109 --> 01:43:58.409
dented the rear bumper of the fifth gen, which

01:43:58.409 --> 01:44:00.350
for his truck and the amount of clearance he

01:44:00.350 --> 01:44:02.649
had, that's pretty good for him. Yeah, it wasn't

01:44:02.649 --> 01:44:05.810
like major. It was like someone kicked a soccer

01:44:05.810 --> 01:44:09.689
ball into it. That was pretty much it. Geo broke

01:44:09.689 --> 01:44:13.500
a CV axle and punctured two tires. Yep. That

01:44:13.500 --> 01:44:16.779
was Thursday. Yeah. One of the other tacos knocked

01:44:16.779 --> 01:44:19.079
their upper control arm out of alignment, and

01:44:19.079 --> 01:44:22.579
I'm pretty sure he got it reset. One of the guys

01:44:22.579 --> 01:44:25.180
in Derek V's group punctured two tires, and someone

01:44:25.180 --> 01:44:27.880
else had a puncture. And there were two more.

01:44:28.699 --> 01:44:32.380
Yep. Someone else's. Go ahead. They ran out of

01:44:32.380 --> 01:44:35.260
spare tires for Toyotas on that. Yeah, they were

01:44:35.260 --> 01:44:39.800
looking at Marketplace for spare tires. Gio had

01:44:39.800 --> 01:44:44.329
his spare spare tire on. Yeah. And borrowed someone

01:44:44.329 --> 01:44:48.229
else's tires. Yes, that too. Someone else's in

01:44:48.229 --> 01:44:50.890
Gio's group got a one -inch diameter stick straight

01:44:50.890 --> 01:44:52.850
through their sidewall and punctured a tire.

01:44:52.949 --> 01:44:57.909
Yep, that was Jackson. And then of the very early

01:44:57.909 --> 01:45:01.270
arrivals, think he broke a coil over on his crawler

01:45:01.270 --> 01:45:05.710
jeeps, so he left Thursday. Yep. That was Jay.

01:45:06.270 --> 01:45:09.029
And he did break a coil over on his jeep. Yeah.

01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:13.439
Alex broke a crossbar off his roof rack and got

01:45:13.439 --> 01:45:16.159
stuck in the mud in a very big way but managed

01:45:16.159 --> 01:45:19.720
to winch himself out. And then Wild Bill ran

01:45:19.720 --> 01:45:26.039
out of gas about 12 miles into a 25 -mile trail

01:45:26.039 --> 01:45:29.380
at the bottom of an active creek bed. Yep. In

01:45:29.380 --> 01:45:33.560
a thunderstorm. Yeah. Busted the deck, pulled

01:45:33.560 --> 01:45:37.159
him out for most of it. That's crazy. So, yeah,

01:45:37.239 --> 01:45:42.439
Busted to Bill actually ground -toed the CJ,

01:45:42.699 --> 01:45:45.760
Wild Bill CJ, through all of the big hill climbs

01:45:45.760 --> 01:45:48.359
and everything at the end of the trail. He didn't

01:45:48.359 --> 01:45:50.579
drive his CJ down all the way, right? He trailered

01:45:50.579 --> 01:45:51.500
it on the second trail. No, it was trailered,

01:45:51.539 --> 01:45:54.569
yeah. I spent spring shakedown with him, and

01:45:54.569 --> 01:45:56.510
the whole time he's like, I'm not doing nothing

01:45:56.510 --> 01:46:00.430
crazy. I'm not going to – this whole weekend

01:46:00.430 --> 01:46:03.409
I've been here to being called Wild Bill. Oh,

01:46:03.409 --> 01:46:06.829
dude. Oh, you got crazy, didn't you, buddy? He's

01:46:06.829 --> 01:46:11.149
always crazy. Drummond Island, he was just flooring

01:46:11.149 --> 01:46:13.289
it up marble. Driving backwards. Drummond Island.

01:46:13.960 --> 01:46:16.300
Yeah, I drive backwards just beating the piss

01:46:16.300 --> 01:46:19.060
out of that poor CJ. That is so funny because

01:46:19.060 --> 01:46:20.840
the whole time in Spring Shakedown, he's like,

01:46:20.880 --> 01:46:23.800
hey, hey. He sounded like the most innocent guy.

01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:25.779
He's like, yeah, I got a little crazy on drumming.

01:46:25.880 --> 01:46:28.920
Not going to lie. Things got a little out of

01:46:28.920 --> 01:46:30.939
control, but this isn't going to happen again.

01:46:31.420 --> 01:46:35.020
That wasn't me. He was talking like, that was

01:46:35.020 --> 01:46:37.899
a one -time thing. I won't be drinking this time.

01:46:38.399 --> 01:46:43.670
I'm following him down a trail. And he's hanging

01:46:43.670 --> 01:46:46.430
a silver bullet out the window, and I ran up

01:46:46.430 --> 01:46:48.569
and threw a koozie over it so he didn't drop

01:46:48.569 --> 01:46:51.229
it. People was giving him alcohol the entire

01:46:51.229 --> 01:46:54.770
time, too. He was such a stellar guy. He's a

01:46:54.770 --> 01:47:00.170
lot of fun. He is. He's up there with one of

01:47:00.170 --> 01:47:02.750
my, okay, maybe not my favorite person to wheel

01:47:02.750 --> 01:47:05.229
with, but my favorite stories and favorite person

01:47:05.229 --> 01:47:09.590
at camp. Yeah. Great personality guy. uh he showed

01:47:09.590 --> 01:47:12.390
up to our spring he was actually the first person

01:47:12.390 --> 01:47:15.149
to show up and i think that was a day earlier

01:47:15.149 --> 01:47:17.750
or way earlier in the morning and he hung out

01:47:17.750 --> 01:47:20.930
and talked to us like we had some weird guy that

01:47:20.930 --> 01:47:23.229
looked like he stepped right out of the 80s pull

01:47:23.229 --> 01:47:27.409
up on a a completely restored like three -wheeler

01:47:27.409 --> 01:47:31.729
from the 80s like that bright yellow crazy yamaha

01:47:31.729 --> 01:47:35.229
looking yeah he and the guy had like complete

01:47:35.229 --> 01:47:40.689
80s outfit complete 80s hair. Like he was, it

01:47:40.689 --> 01:47:43.069
was like he stepped out of a time capsule. Yeah.

01:47:43.149 --> 01:47:45.489
He's just talking to us and it's like me and

01:47:45.489 --> 01:47:49.449
Bill are like, man, this is odd. We're in the

01:47:49.449 --> 01:47:52.010
middle of nowhere. So yeah, Bill's, Bill's real

01:47:52.010 --> 01:47:54.250
cool guy. He rode around on his bike, hung out

01:47:54.250 --> 01:47:56.550
with us. Scott came by, they smoked cigars together.

01:47:57.270 --> 01:47:59.550
That was my first time meeting him and I had

01:47:59.550 --> 01:48:02.550
no idea he had a Sequoia. I was like, who drives

01:48:02.550 --> 01:48:07.310
a Sequoia that we know? Yeah. So yeah, he, Wild

01:48:07.310 --> 01:48:10.750
Bill's awesome. Yep. Cracked me up the whole

01:48:10.750 --> 01:48:15.390
time. Yeah, so, I mean, as you can hear from

01:48:15.390 --> 01:48:18.229
the damage report, it was crazy, and that's all

01:48:18.229 --> 01:48:21.649
there is to it. Crazy fun for most people. It

01:48:21.649 --> 01:48:25.369
was fun. I think everyone had fun. Yeah, I think

01:48:25.369 --> 01:48:29.090
overall. One thing. Yeah, the patience. I mean.

01:48:29.470 --> 01:48:31.130
You can only put up with that so long. And then

01:48:31.130 --> 01:48:34.289
you got some people with kids or something like

01:48:34.289 --> 01:48:36.010
that. They're crying. They want to get out and

01:48:36.010 --> 01:48:40.149
do stuff. It's like, there's nothing worse. We

01:48:40.149 --> 01:48:43.329
did that loop, like I said, in like three hours,

01:48:43.489 --> 01:48:48.930
I think it was. Yeah. It honestly, it probably

01:48:48.930 --> 01:48:52.489
wouldn't have been bad for Derek's group if they

01:48:52.489 --> 01:48:55.489
were only like three to five trucks. Yeah. Well,

01:48:55.909 --> 01:48:57.210
yeah. I mean, it wouldn't have taken as long

01:48:57.210 --> 01:48:59.859
to pull everyone through. Right. And then you

01:48:59.859 --> 01:49:01.399
got everyone that wants to stop and each one

01:49:01.399 --> 01:49:03.859
gets, gets their picture on that rock or, you

01:49:03.859 --> 01:49:07.819
know, I could see where that would be troublesome.

01:49:08.880 --> 01:49:12.720
And I can honestly say as much as I love Derek,

01:49:12.819 --> 01:49:15.500
I never want to wheel in Derek's group at any

01:49:15.500 --> 01:49:20.020
event because he just, everyone ends up in his

01:49:20.020 --> 01:49:22.560
group and it ends up being so big. And the Jeep

01:49:22.560 --> 01:49:25.619
group was big too. They had like 10. I think,

01:49:25.619 --> 01:49:29.119
something like that. Yeah. So imagine them getting

01:49:29.119 --> 01:49:32.699
stuck behind Derek's group of 15. That's 25 rigs

01:49:32.699 --> 01:49:35.539
just waiting to move. It was a majority of the

01:49:35.539 --> 01:49:40.239
camp was there. Yeah. That's a double -edged

01:49:40.239 --> 01:49:42.260
sword because a lot of the times when Derek does

01:49:42.260 --> 01:49:45.800
these events, he is usually the one that has

01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:49.420
to keep the newer stragglers in line or the easier

01:49:49.420 --> 01:49:54.840
group. Not that he isn't equipped. for harder

01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:57.220
stuff. Oh, he's not. No, he's not. That's what

01:49:57.220 --> 01:50:00.720
I'm trying to say. Yeah. But he ends up getting

01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:03.220
all of the newer people, too, and when you have

01:50:03.220 --> 01:50:05.920
15 people that, you know, we don't have a bunch

01:50:05.920 --> 01:50:08.680
of people volunteering to go, hey, let's break

01:50:08.680 --> 01:50:11.500
this group up. They don't want that either. So

01:50:11.500 --> 01:50:15.159
it ends up falling in on him. 15's too much for

01:50:15.159 --> 01:50:18.420
that type of wheeling. It's not for scenic stuff,

01:50:18.560 --> 01:50:21.039
but... Derek will come right out and tell you

01:50:21.039 --> 01:50:23.000
he does not have experience. Like, Derek's only

01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:28.039
been wheeling since 2022 or 2021. Like, he'll

01:50:28.039 --> 01:50:30.939
tell you, I do not have experience. I only know

01:50:30.939 --> 01:50:34.199
Michigan trails. And he'll straight up tell you,

01:50:34.239 --> 01:50:37.340
my truck is not built for this because it's not.

01:50:37.439 --> 01:50:41.079
It's built for Michigan trails. That's it. Yeah.

01:50:41.840 --> 01:50:46.520
And at the end of the day, he's a good. event

01:50:46.520 --> 01:50:50.199
planner you know he plans out the stuff and he

01:50:50.199 --> 01:50:53.859
he's very good at helping the newcomers and stuff

01:50:53.859 --> 01:50:58.279
yep but it that was just a situation where that

01:50:58.279 --> 01:51:01.920
was a lot for everyone yep and including him

01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:04.479
that was his first time that was his first time

01:51:04.479 --> 01:51:07.680
on those types of trails like we mentioned in

01:51:07.680 --> 01:51:09.720
the previous episode every it was everybody's

01:51:09.720 --> 01:51:12.739
first Other than a couple people that had the

01:51:12.739 --> 01:51:15.119
experience from other states, like Alex and maybe

01:51:15.119 --> 01:51:18.140
some others. But nobody knew what they needed

01:51:18.140 --> 01:51:21.699
to have experience -wise, what they needed to

01:51:21.699 --> 01:51:23.779
have equipped -wise for their vehicle, because

01:51:23.779 --> 01:51:28.579
there wasn't the intel there to help. I will

01:51:28.579 --> 01:51:32.680
say, a lot of the guys will say, it would have

01:51:32.680 --> 01:51:34.439
been better if I had a locker. It would have

01:51:34.439 --> 01:51:36.819
been better. I did the whole thing open -open.

01:51:39.119 --> 01:51:42.220
It wasn't that bad. Would a locker have been

01:51:42.220 --> 01:51:45.560
nice? Yes, but you really didn't need it. Yeah,

01:51:45.600 --> 01:51:47.960
I think that's where experience comes into it,

01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:50.699
too, because you knew exactly where to go, lines

01:51:50.699 --> 01:51:53.960
-wise. Hey, we have a message from a listener,

01:51:54.180 --> 01:51:57.699
right? That's what that sound was. The message

01:51:57.699 --> 01:52:01.560
was, let's read it out. It is my dad. It is my

01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:05.699
dad, and he says, ah. Oh, I was going to make

01:52:05.699 --> 01:52:08.569
something up. He tried to call me and I said,

01:52:08.670 --> 01:52:11.050
I'm recording the podcast. And then he goes,

01:52:11.090 --> 01:52:13.930
ah. Yeah. I was going to make something up like,

01:52:14.010 --> 01:52:18.890
what was your favorite mod for the weekend? Just

01:52:18.890 --> 01:52:22.770
the weekend. Not the entirety of your life. What

01:52:22.770 --> 01:52:24.689
was your favorite thing that you were like, fuck,

01:52:24.710 --> 01:52:27.930
this is handy? Well, this is awesome because

01:52:27.930 --> 01:52:30.710
we got 10 minutes left and we're pretty much

01:52:30.710 --> 01:52:34.050
done with Leatherwood. Yeah. It was a great trip.

01:52:34.270 --> 01:52:37.239
I can't wait to do it again. Yep. Next year.

01:52:37.800 --> 01:52:40.920
A little bit of housekeeping. I know me and Mark

01:52:40.920 --> 01:52:43.140
have been talking about doing Moab pretty much

01:52:43.140 --> 01:52:48.180
nonstop. I think that we are not doing Moab in

01:52:48.180 --> 01:52:51.920
2026. Yep. I think that we're going to go back

01:52:51.920 --> 01:52:55.300
to Leatherwood with a group of, I don't want

01:52:55.300 --> 01:52:59.149
more than four trucks total. I want to be able

01:52:59.149 --> 01:53:01.850
to go out and actually do some of the harder

01:53:01.850 --> 01:53:04.329
trails without having to worry about other people.

01:53:04.510 --> 01:53:08.729
Yep. I also, that trip, I plan on trailering

01:53:08.729 --> 01:53:12.590
as many of the trucks down as I can because it's

01:53:12.590 --> 01:53:15.310
one that I plan on getting rowdy and being rowdy

01:53:15.310 --> 01:53:22.869
on. Right. Yep. Well, since I already asked it,

01:53:22.930 --> 01:53:26.289
what was, Mark, what was your favorite? What

01:53:26.289 --> 01:53:27.930
was your favorite upgrade for the weekend that

01:53:27.930 --> 01:53:30.689
you were like, fuck, thank God I had this? It

01:53:30.689 --> 01:53:35.210
would be a second cooler. There you go. Yeah.

01:53:35.770 --> 01:53:40.270
So we stopped at a Meijer on the way down and

01:53:40.270 --> 01:53:42.750
bought drinks, and they had nothing cold. No

01:53:42.750 --> 01:53:47.130
cold pop, no cold beer. So we went through ice

01:53:47.130 --> 01:53:50.569
like crazy just getting the drinks cold. So it

01:53:50.569 --> 01:53:52.470
was nice having a cooler that we could put the

01:53:52.470 --> 01:53:54.529
food in that we just didn't have to worry about

01:53:54.529 --> 01:54:02.460
it. Yeah. Really, as long as you don't buy warm

01:54:02.460 --> 01:54:04.800
drinks, you're fine with coolers, but that was

01:54:04.800 --> 01:54:06.960
really irritating that they had nothing warm.

01:54:07.100 --> 01:54:09.319
Turns out that's an Indiana thing, by the way.

01:54:09.319 --> 01:54:12.619
Nothing cold. Yeah, they don't sell cold beer.

01:54:12.939 --> 01:54:15.260
Yeah. Didn't know that. What about you, Alex?

01:54:15.260 --> 01:54:17.300
Anything different, or is yours kind of the same?

01:54:17.939 --> 01:54:22.279
The swag. Yeah. That's it. The swag is great.

01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:27.359
Yeah. No, that's valid. So let me ask this then,

01:54:27.380 --> 01:54:29.479
since you mentioned that. Does a fridge make

01:54:29.479 --> 01:54:33.159
more sense now as far as convenience -wise to

01:54:33.159 --> 01:54:36.800
be able to put on a trailer? No. Put on a trailer?

01:54:37.140 --> 01:54:40.840
Yeah, I mean, if you enclosed it. So how about

01:54:40.840 --> 01:54:43.399
this? If Milwaukee came out with a fridge that

01:54:43.399 --> 01:54:46.199
fit into the packout system, I would be more

01:54:46.199 --> 01:54:49.840
interested in a fridge. Yep. Having to specifically

01:54:49.840 --> 01:54:54.699
set up my setup for a fridge. makes it less convenient.

01:54:55.000 --> 01:54:57.739
What about just mounting a plate onto the bottom

01:54:57.739 --> 01:54:59.960
of it? A lot of them have foots that you can

01:54:59.960 --> 01:55:02.979
just unscrew and mount a plate to. I've really

01:55:02.979 --> 01:55:05.439
thought about it because I kind of looked into

01:55:05.439 --> 01:55:09.619
them maybe two months ago. But for the cost of

01:55:09.619 --> 01:55:12.840
a fridge and the fact that none of them are Milwaukee

01:55:12.840 --> 01:55:15.100
-sized, and I don't want one that's Milwaukee

01:55:15.100 --> 01:55:16.979
-sized. I was about to say, we've got to find

01:55:16.979 --> 01:55:20.859
the right size box. Yep. My Milwaukee -sized

01:55:20.859 --> 01:55:24.619
cooler is 49 quarts, 49, 42, somewhere in there.

01:55:24.859 --> 01:55:29.260
Yeah, whatever. But if I were to get a fridge

01:55:29.260 --> 01:55:32.260
of the exact same size, it would be significantly

01:55:32.260 --> 01:55:35.560
smaller because of the fridge mech. Yep. Yep.

01:55:36.020 --> 01:55:38.640
I was going to say, I think mine's a 38, and

01:55:38.640 --> 01:55:42.119
that's much smaller than what yours is when you

01:55:42.119 --> 01:55:44.680
translate that into cooler size. By the time

01:55:44.680 --> 01:55:48.159
you'd get yours, you'd need, like... God, you'd

01:55:48.159 --> 01:55:52.359
need like a 55 or a 65 liter. And the other thing

01:55:52.359 --> 01:55:55.420
is, you know, if you manage ice properly, it's

01:55:55.420 --> 01:55:57.939
not a problem. Yeah. I'll be honest, the way

01:55:57.939 --> 01:56:01.880
we did it by having food, and this is the other

01:56:01.880 --> 01:56:03.979
thing, if you're going to do coolers, it's good

01:56:03.979 --> 01:56:06.180
to have two, one for food and one for drinks,

01:56:06.300 --> 01:56:08.520
because the drink cooler is always going to go

01:56:08.520 --> 01:56:11.119
through ice faster, but it's less of an issue

01:56:11.119 --> 01:56:13.380
if the drink cooler goes through ice. Yeah. It's

01:56:13.380 --> 01:56:15.399
only an issue if the food cooler goes through

01:56:15.399 --> 01:56:18.960
ice. Yes. And we did not have a single problem

01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:21.840
with our food cooler at all. I think the only

01:56:21.840 --> 01:56:24.619
cooler. The only issue we had was when we ran

01:56:24.619 --> 01:56:26.399
out of food. So we started putting pops in the

01:56:26.399 --> 01:56:29.439
bottom. Yeah. Yep. Right. Through our steaks

01:56:29.439 --> 01:56:32.159
and sausage or beef. So I was like, well, we

01:56:32.159 --> 01:56:35.680
got room for more drinks. Yeah. I mean, for what,

01:56:35.720 --> 01:56:38.840
for me, 38 liter, I wish I could have had a 45.

01:56:39.220 --> 01:56:42.180
That's my only, that's my only, I wish I could

01:56:42.180 --> 01:56:44.779
get rid of the ice box and make it a 45. Yeah.

01:56:45.180 --> 01:56:49.579
And. And that would free up some space because

01:56:49.579 --> 01:56:53.279
what I typically do is I'll put three or four

01:56:53.279 --> 01:56:56.260
drinks in the fridge and I'll leave the rest

01:56:56.260 --> 01:56:59.199
out because they don't need to be cold. And,

01:56:59.199 --> 01:57:00.979
you know, you're not wasting a bunch of extra

01:57:00.979 --> 01:57:03.039
power on that or, you know, or anything. You're

01:57:03.039 --> 01:57:04.859
not wasting anything. They're just sitting there.

01:57:04.859 --> 01:57:08.390
They're not doing any harm. I'll have a 12 -pack

01:57:08.390 --> 01:57:10.329
sitting there. I'll take three or four out of

01:57:10.329 --> 01:57:13.470
it for the day, put them in the fridge, and they're

01:57:13.470 --> 01:57:16.949
35, 40 degrees when I want them. Yep. That's

01:57:16.949 --> 01:57:21.949
about it. Yeah, I don't know, man. I think that

01:57:21.949 --> 01:57:25.649
I do, what, one four -day trip, one to two four

01:57:25.649 --> 01:57:27.630
-day trips a year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't

01:57:27.630 --> 01:57:29.829
make sense for you, especially that size. It

01:57:29.829 --> 01:57:32.729
would be very, very expensive to get a decent

01:57:32.729 --> 01:57:36.800
one. I'm not saying that fridges are bad. I'm

01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:40.060
saying that you get a good cooler, it's not as

01:57:40.060 --> 01:57:42.300
big of a problem. Now, if you're trying to run

01:57:42.300 --> 01:57:45.739
like a Walmart cooler, man, them things fucking

01:57:45.739 --> 01:57:52.479
suck. And, you know, if you plan things out right

01:57:52.479 --> 01:57:54.680
and you're pre -chilling all the food and drink

01:57:54.680 --> 01:57:57.439
going into a cooler, that cuts down on problems

01:57:57.439 --> 01:58:01.199
a lot. Yes. The biggest problem is to take something

01:58:01.199 --> 01:58:04.619
from warm to cold. Yep. Yep. And that's like

01:58:04.619 --> 01:58:06.979
our big cooler. We never had issues with ice

01:58:06.979 --> 01:58:10.340
in the big cooler ever. Because we'd get a 25

01:58:10.340 --> 01:58:12.600
pound bag of ice and we might only be cooling,

01:58:12.720 --> 01:58:15.000
you know, we could have gotten away with a four

01:58:15.000 --> 01:58:17.539
pound bag of ice for the amount of stuff we had

01:58:17.539 --> 01:58:20.840
in it. So the ice would cool things down and

01:58:20.840 --> 01:58:24.579
it would barely melt anything. Yep. Right. But.

01:58:24.739 --> 01:58:26.859
Yeah. And if you know that you're going to eat

01:58:26.859 --> 01:58:31.020
meat on the fourth day, keep it frozen. Like.

01:58:31.529 --> 01:58:33.810
Keep it frozen when you put it in. Make sure

01:58:33.810 --> 01:58:35.489
if you're going to have something different,

01:58:35.770 --> 01:58:38.109
thaw it out. Put it in a different area to thaw.

01:58:39.050 --> 01:58:43.630
I've literally taken meat out of the fridge and

01:58:43.630 --> 01:58:47.069
then put it in a Ziploc baggie and put it in

01:58:47.069 --> 01:58:50.750
a drawer a couple hours before I knew that we

01:58:50.750 --> 01:58:54.710
were going to eat just to thaw it out. If you're

01:58:54.710 --> 01:59:00.000
doing the cooler thing, and let's say... Just

01:59:00.000 --> 01:59:02.359
for ease of use here, let's say you're going

01:59:02.359 --> 01:59:04.979
to be out for five days and you're eating steak

01:59:04.979 --> 01:59:07.680
and mashed potatoes the entire five days, right?

01:59:08.579 --> 01:59:12.439
You freeze three out of your four packs of steak.

01:59:12.739 --> 01:59:15.180
You put them in the bottom of the cooler. You

01:59:15.180 --> 01:59:17.920
add a small bag of ice on top of them. That is

01:59:17.920 --> 01:59:21.939
your ice now. That meat is your ice. Now, you

01:59:21.939 --> 01:59:24.579
put your next two steaks on the top of the cooler

01:59:24.579 --> 01:59:25.979
because you're going to use them in your first

01:59:25.979 --> 01:59:29.250
two days. You cook up the first one. You cook

01:59:29.250 --> 01:59:30.850
up the second one. By the time you've cooked

01:59:30.850 --> 01:59:32.750
up that second one, that third one should be

01:59:32.750 --> 01:59:35.550
pretty well thawed. You pull that one out, but

01:59:35.550 --> 01:59:37.170
the bottom two will still be kind of frozen.

01:59:37.409 --> 01:59:41.409
So you just space it out so that they're in the

01:59:41.409 --> 01:59:43.409
order that you're going to use them in the cooler.

01:59:43.930 --> 01:59:48.590
I recommend maybe not water bottles. Water bottles

01:59:48.590 --> 01:59:51.079
sweat. but they're a good option because then

01:59:51.079 --> 01:59:53.500
you're also carrying water. But if you can get

01:59:53.500 --> 01:59:57.460
the gel packs, the freezer gel packs, those last

01:59:57.460 --> 02:00:00.560
longer than standard ice anyway. I actually,

02:00:00.659 --> 02:00:04.199
I pre -froze a bunch of them for this trip and

02:00:04.199 --> 02:00:07.239
left them in my freezer, which is probably most

02:00:07.239 --> 02:00:10.060
of my issue. On the topic of the gel pack, I'm

02:00:10.060 --> 02:00:12.260
kind of curious because I think I sent you these,

02:00:12.359 --> 02:00:15.579
Alex. There's pre -chilled ice blocks, literally

02:00:15.579 --> 02:00:19.609
ice cubes. I'm kind of wondering how they, because

02:00:19.609 --> 02:00:21.850
supposedly they last for 24 hours, but I don't

02:00:21.850 --> 02:00:24.689
know if they last longer in our coolers based

02:00:24.689 --> 02:00:30.170
off of that. I'd have to see. Yeah. I don't remember

02:00:30.170 --> 02:00:33.529
this. The other thing, when I was a kid, we used

02:00:33.529 --> 02:00:35.930
to do this a little bit, because when I was a

02:00:35.930 --> 02:00:37.869
kid, we used to horse camp, and we'd be gone

02:00:37.869 --> 02:00:43.350
for like two weeks at a time. So our meat that

02:00:43.350 --> 02:00:45.289
we were going to be using later, dad would put

02:00:45.289 --> 02:00:48.789
it in a cooler with dry ice and then pull it

02:00:48.789 --> 02:00:50.869
out and put it in the normal cooler to let it

02:00:50.869 --> 02:00:53.949
thaw. That worked great. If you're doing a two

02:00:53.949 --> 02:00:56.149
cooler thing, having one that's a dry ice cooler

02:00:56.149 --> 02:00:59.609
is smart. Yeah. And then you're not opening it

02:00:59.609 --> 02:01:02.069
because the more you open it, the more heat or

02:01:02.069 --> 02:01:05.210
I'm sorry, the more cold that you actually lose.

02:01:05.310 --> 02:01:06.989
So every time you're grabbing a beer out of there,

02:01:07.050 --> 02:01:11.680
you're losing precious, precious cold. And that

02:01:11.680 --> 02:01:15.239
is why I highly recommend having a separate food

02:01:15.239 --> 02:01:19.500
chest from drink chest. Yep. Also, make sure

02:01:19.500 --> 02:01:23.060
they stay latched. We had issues this weekend

02:01:23.060 --> 02:01:25.699
where a certain individual in our group would

02:01:25.699 --> 02:01:29.260
never latch the cooler. And that made the drink

02:01:29.260 --> 02:01:32.500
cooler melt significantly faster. See, this is

02:01:32.500 --> 02:01:36.000
why you need four Milwaukee Packout coolers,

02:01:36.060 --> 02:01:41.239
one for beer. one for veggies one for meat and

02:01:41.239 --> 02:01:46.399
one for etc and then you're oh man it's perfect

02:01:46.399 --> 02:01:50.239
i would also say you just if you run coolers

02:01:50.239 --> 02:01:52.260
put them inside the truck they would definitely

02:01:52.260 --> 02:01:54.880
last a little bit longer i mean i know mine didn't

02:01:54.880 --> 02:01:58.000
last my last pretty well but i think it would

02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:01.680
have done better i actually i actually think

02:02:01.680 --> 02:02:04.739
that they last better outside the truck they're

02:02:04.739 --> 02:02:07.619
white so they don't absorb the sun as much. But

02:02:07.619 --> 02:02:09.279
when you put them in the truck, the truck is

02:02:09.279 --> 02:02:13.100
warmer than outside. Yeah, that's a good point.

02:02:13.239 --> 02:02:16.779
I was going to say with coolers and fridges,

02:02:16.779 --> 02:02:20.739
they work harder in hotter spaces. So, for instance,

02:02:21.180 --> 02:02:26.439
my fridge in my truck, when it's 95 degrees outside,

02:02:26.600 --> 02:02:31.000
my truck's 120, whatever. It is going to work

02:02:31.000 --> 02:02:33.859
a whole lot harder and expend a whole lot more

02:02:33.859 --> 02:02:38.539
battery life just to actually get it to keep

02:02:38.539 --> 02:02:42.399
it as cold. I tend to move the temperature up

02:02:42.399 --> 02:02:44.880
a little bit on those days so that the fridge

02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:47.979
isn't working so hard to try to keep it at, let's

02:02:47.979 --> 02:02:50.800
say, 45. I'll say, okay, let's just keep it at

02:02:50.800 --> 02:02:53.920
like 50, 55 because it's still keeping things

02:02:53.920 --> 02:02:59.449
cold. Because you're going to add a house battery,

02:02:59.569 --> 02:03:02.710
right? You talked about that? Yeah. You should

02:03:02.710 --> 02:03:05.569
do that in a packout. You should do that in a

02:03:05.569 --> 02:03:08.989
packout so that it's removable if you have an

02:03:08.989 --> 02:03:10.550
issue with your alternator and can just swap

02:03:10.550 --> 02:03:16.029
it. Well, so I'm going to have it where I'm going

02:03:16.029 --> 02:03:19.789
to put it is there's actually a spot in under

02:03:19.789 --> 02:03:23.229
the hood for a house battery, a second spot on

02:03:23.229 --> 02:03:25.590
the opposite side. But I will have it hooked

02:03:25.590 --> 02:03:29.079
up. through anderson connectors so that i can

02:03:29.079 --> 02:03:31.880
take it out but there i mean there's a perfect

02:03:31.880 --> 02:03:35.000
spot for it plenty of room to have a second battery

02:03:35.000 --> 02:03:37.960
there so it makes more sense to have it in the

02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:41.260
engine bay where i have the space for it versus

02:03:41.260 --> 02:03:44.560
it taking space somewhere in the truck right

02:03:44.560 --> 02:03:48.560
so where we really i mean i guess i did have

02:03:48.560 --> 02:03:51.199
space under my hood for another one but i'm moving

02:03:51.199 --> 02:03:53.770
it all the back so No, I mean, it makes sense

02:03:53.770 --> 02:03:58.449
for you. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I definitely

02:03:58.449 --> 02:04:00.850
have thought about it, but I'm going to get like

02:04:00.850 --> 02:04:04.170
a 105 watt solar panel to put on the hood so

02:04:04.170 --> 02:04:06.670
that anytime we're camping, it's just going to

02:04:06.670 --> 02:04:08.810
charge. Anytime we're wheeling, it'll slow charge.

02:04:09.310 --> 02:04:11.930
It'll just slow things down. I don't expect it

02:04:11.930 --> 02:04:13.670
to have everything charged by the end of the

02:04:13.670 --> 02:04:18.430
day, but it'll slow the consumption. Right. Yeah.

02:04:18.569 --> 02:04:23.279
So, I mean, that really. Coolers are good, man.

02:04:23.479 --> 02:04:26.979
The coolers are really good. Yeah. The swag was,

02:04:27.119 --> 02:04:30.220
I can't even tell you how nice it was. And there's

02:04:30.220 --> 02:04:32.760
an added benefit, right? So the swag has two

02:04:32.760 --> 02:04:36.140
panels on the top that open. They call them like

02:04:36.140 --> 02:04:39.659
stargazing panels or something. But the swag

02:04:39.659 --> 02:04:41.720
is short. So if you had to get something out

02:04:41.720 --> 02:04:44.140
of the swag, you could just open the roof and

02:04:44.140 --> 02:04:46.279
reach down and get it. It was the best thing

02:04:46.279 --> 02:04:50.829
ever. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I didn't think of that.

02:04:50.869 --> 02:04:53.649
I thought they were just like clear webbing or

02:04:53.649 --> 02:04:55.210
something. I didn't know you could actually open

02:04:55.210 --> 02:04:56.829
them to get through them. That's cool. Yeah,

02:04:57.050 --> 02:05:00.090
they open right up. Huh. Yeah, they open right

02:05:00.090 --> 02:05:05.229
up. All together, man, the swag is just... I

02:05:05.229 --> 02:05:07.770
mean, any tent you spend $600 on is probably

02:05:07.770 --> 02:05:10.069
going to be a pretty decent tent. Yeah, that's

02:05:10.069 --> 02:05:13.149
true. At that point, they have to be pretty decently

02:05:13.149 --> 02:05:18.699
in the quality department. Especially... a $600

02:05:18.699 --> 02:05:21.340
two -person tent like that's got to be a pretty

02:05:21.340 --> 02:05:26.100
fucking good yeah yeah but it it just was good

02:05:26.100 --> 02:05:29.819
man that high density foam was way more comfortable

02:05:29.819 --> 02:05:35.460
than i was expecting um and i found it interesting

02:05:35.460 --> 02:05:39.180
most of the people that had rooftop tents still

02:05:39.180 --> 02:05:41.539
can't put their bedding in their rooftop tent

02:05:41.539 --> 02:05:45.180
yeah i'm not sure oh i'm sorry especially the

02:05:45.180 --> 02:05:48.720
ones The ones that, like, flip open to give extra

02:05:48.720 --> 02:05:51.460
space or whatever, you can't put bedding in those.

02:05:51.579 --> 02:05:56.680
It doesn't work. Yeah, and that's something that's

02:05:56.680 --> 02:05:59.380
why I did the research on that beforehand, that

02:05:59.380 --> 02:06:03.020
you actually, if that's your plan, then to actually

02:06:03.020 --> 02:06:06.819
look for a rooftop tent with that as one of the

02:06:06.819 --> 02:06:08.840
features to be able to do, to have the extra

02:06:08.840 --> 02:06:12.600
space. By taking... By taking that out, right,

02:06:12.680 --> 02:06:14.960
taking that away, not having bedding be able

02:06:14.960 --> 02:06:17.340
to be stored up there, that makes a rooftop tent

02:06:17.340 --> 02:06:21.800
almost worthless. Yeah. The only benefit is you

02:06:21.800 --> 02:06:24.159
won't feel rocks. Well, I didn't feel rocks,

02:06:24.159 --> 02:06:26.399
and I had a foot -high boulder under my tent.

02:06:26.680 --> 02:06:30.140
Yeah. No, that definitely takes away a big sell

02:06:30.140 --> 02:06:34.340
point on it. I mean, there are a lot of sell

02:06:34.340 --> 02:06:38.560
points on rooftop tents. aren't for your type

02:06:38.560 --> 02:06:40.880
of wheeling so they're not sell points for you

02:06:40.880 --> 02:06:44.619
but uh that is one of the major ones and that

02:06:44.619 --> 02:06:47.420
was one of my major reasons is to be able to

02:06:47.420 --> 02:06:51.439
store all of our bedding in there that was the

02:06:51.439 --> 02:06:54.159
only thing about a rooftop tent that ever interested

02:06:54.159 --> 02:06:58.359
me yeah and which is why i got swag yeah i think

02:06:58.359 --> 02:07:01.840
that might have to do with the beds the rooftop

02:07:01.840 --> 02:07:05.600
tents have in them A lot of the times rooftop

02:07:05.600 --> 02:07:08.560
tends to come with like a foam pad and not an

02:07:08.560 --> 02:07:11.359
inflatable. And I think if you switch that foam

02:07:11.359 --> 02:07:14.500
with an inflatable, you would gain some of that

02:07:14.500 --> 02:07:16.960
space because you have three or four inches of

02:07:16.960 --> 02:07:20.260
foam. That's what Ed and Rebecca did because

02:07:20.260 --> 02:07:23.039
they only come with, like, 30 mil foam usually,

02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:26.640
too, which is ridiculous. But Ed and Rebecca,

02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:29.020
they swapped theirs for an inflatable, and the

02:07:29.020 --> 02:07:31.819
inflatable is better. But now you've got to set

02:07:31.819 --> 02:07:34.199
the tent up, which takes time. You've got to

02:07:34.199 --> 02:07:36.479
inflate the mattress, which takes time. Then

02:07:36.479 --> 02:07:38.439
you have to move your bedding in, which takes

02:07:38.439 --> 02:07:40.979
time. By the time they're done setting up, I

02:07:40.979 --> 02:07:42.899
could have my swag up and ready to go. Yeah,

02:07:42.920 --> 02:07:45.140
I was going to say, I think their inflatable

02:07:45.140 --> 02:07:48.949
has foam on it, too, though. no i think they

02:07:48.949 --> 02:07:52.109
have the x pad which i think has a layer of foam

02:07:52.109 --> 02:07:54.930
on it yeah it's like it's like five millimeters

02:07:54.930 --> 02:07:58.810
of foam it it's basically a winter sleep pad

02:07:58.810 --> 02:08:03.029
yeah it's it's very comfortable i'm sure it is

02:08:03.029 --> 02:08:06.470
tested i've tested them out but um it just yeah

02:08:06.470 --> 02:08:08.750
it's just that that rooftop tent wasn't designed

02:08:08.750 --> 02:08:11.390
for it unfortunately with that in mind i mean

02:08:11.739 --> 02:08:14.279
Once you get to that point, though, like, your

02:08:14.279 --> 02:08:16.520
two big selling points on a rooftop tent are

02:08:16.520 --> 02:08:21.039
ease of setup, which gets taken away, and ability

02:08:21.039 --> 02:08:23.920
to store bedding, which gets taken away. So now,

02:08:24.039 --> 02:08:28.020
what are the sell points? Yeah, that you're off

02:08:28.020 --> 02:08:32.300
ground, that... Why is that a big deal? I don't

02:08:32.300 --> 02:08:34.819
mind being on the ground. You don't. Other people

02:08:34.819 --> 02:08:37.180
do. If I'm in a thunderstorm, I'll tell you I'd

02:08:37.180 --> 02:08:39.619
rather be on the ground. Yeah. But like I said,

02:08:39.699 --> 02:08:41.119
they're not sell points for you. They're sell

02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:43.300
points for other people. That's the whole thing.

02:08:43.840 --> 02:08:47.079
You don't understand. Other people do. But that's

02:08:47.079 --> 02:08:49.539
what I'm saying is I'm not saying all rooftop

02:08:49.539 --> 02:08:51.640
tents are bad. But once you take away those two

02:08:51.640 --> 02:08:54.300
big sell points, it really limits a reason to

02:08:54.300 --> 02:08:56.699
get a rooftop tent. Yeah. I mean, for everybody.

02:08:57.479 --> 02:09:00.300
And that's why you see so many of them on Facebook

02:09:00.300 --> 02:09:03.579
is people buy them blindly. and then realize,

02:09:03.800 --> 02:09:05.859
oh, this doesn't do what I want it to do. Oh,

02:09:05.979 --> 02:09:08.279
this doesn't, I can't store bedding in it like

02:09:08.279 --> 02:09:10.779
I thought I would be able to. That kind of thing.

02:09:10.899 --> 02:09:14.119
That's crazy to me because that's like the number

02:09:14.119 --> 02:09:18.720
one thing. And for clamshells, you'd think like

02:09:18.720 --> 02:09:21.159
a hard clamshell you'd be able to do that. So

02:09:21.159 --> 02:09:25.220
if, I don't know, if you are running a clamshell

02:09:25.220 --> 02:09:29.199
and you listen to this, let us know. But that

02:09:29.199 --> 02:09:33.899
just seems stupid. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you

02:09:33.899 --> 02:09:35.720
have the extra space, maybe that's not a big

02:09:35.720 --> 02:09:38.239
deal to you. But for space -conscious people

02:09:38.239 --> 02:09:42.500
like me, that makes zero sense to buy a rooftop

02:09:42.500 --> 02:09:46.939
tent just to store your stuff in the truck. That's

02:09:46.939 --> 02:09:49.500
the whole reason, you know, a lot of people buy

02:09:49.500 --> 02:09:53.020
them, I would think. Driving down before I broke

02:09:53.020 --> 02:09:56.300
my roof rack, it was so nice. My back seat was

02:09:56.300 --> 02:09:59.180
fully set up. I had nothing bouncing around.

02:09:59.319 --> 02:10:01.859
Everything was tucked behind the seat. I had

02:10:01.859 --> 02:10:04.920
no extra stuff taking up storage space in my

02:10:04.920 --> 02:10:09.819
truck. It was fantastic. Obviously, after my

02:10:09.819 --> 02:10:12.199
roof rack broke, I had to put the swag in the

02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:16.399
truck. That took up a lot of space, but that's

02:10:16.399 --> 02:10:20.409
not normal. I don't normally do that. Yeah, I

02:10:20.409 --> 02:10:24.350
actually bought a couple things, splurged a little

02:10:24.350 --> 02:10:27.729
bit, and made some more room in my truck, and

02:10:27.729 --> 02:10:29.890
that's been kind of nice. I had those two Pelican

02:10:29.890 --> 02:10:32.829
boxes donated to me. I hard -mounted those up

02:10:32.829 --> 02:10:35.970
on the roof rack, which gives me a good amount

02:10:35.970 --> 02:10:41.010
more space. I put all my recovery gear now is

02:10:41.010 --> 02:10:45.069
out in a Pelican. My tow strap, my kinetic straps,

02:10:45.470 --> 02:10:52.199
all of my... Soft shackles, they're all in those

02:10:52.199 --> 02:10:55.600
Pelicans now. So that takes a lot of stuff out

02:10:55.600 --> 02:11:02.659
of my truck. I moved in a Kelty cargo box. That

02:11:02.659 --> 02:11:05.119
looks pretty sick. It is. For the price, I was

02:11:05.119 --> 02:11:09.359
super wary about it because it's like $99. Yeah,

02:11:09.380 --> 02:11:13.960
no, it's sick. But I can fit four days' worth

02:11:13.960 --> 02:11:17.939
of clothing in it. And there's three cubes, so

02:11:17.939 --> 02:11:20.619
one for me, one for my son, and one for Sienna.

02:11:20.960 --> 02:11:24.479
And it takes up less space than the duffel bags

02:11:24.479 --> 02:11:27.760
that we use. So for some reason, when we use

02:11:27.760 --> 02:11:30.220
one big duffel bag, it just takes up more room.

02:11:30.859 --> 02:11:33.560
And maybe that's just because it's a square.

02:11:33.779 --> 02:11:36.699
But it's also nice that I can pull a cube out

02:11:36.699 --> 02:11:40.260
and know it's for me, put it back, or pull a

02:11:40.260 --> 02:11:43.739
cube out for Jasper because that's all we need.

02:11:44.930 --> 02:11:50.069
I'm used to square duffels. Yeah. Because the

02:11:50.069 --> 02:11:51.970
military duffels, you pack them right, they're

02:11:51.970 --> 02:11:56.149
square. Right. And you can fit, I mean, four

02:11:56.149 --> 02:12:00.130
days with the three of you, I would need half

02:12:00.130 --> 02:12:04.189
of one military duffel. Yeah, you don't really

02:12:04.189 --> 02:12:06.350
need all that much. And that's another thing

02:12:06.350 --> 02:12:09.510
is trying to be honest with yourself. What are

02:12:09.510 --> 02:12:11.569
you actually going to go through? Yeah, underwear.

02:12:12.270 --> 02:12:14.619
Yeah, socks. But are you going to go through

02:12:14.619 --> 02:12:18.020
three pairs of fricking pants? No. So this was,

02:12:18.100 --> 02:12:20.659
we packed for a five day trip because I had vacation

02:12:20.659 --> 02:12:24.159
until Tuesday just to be safe. And all we took

02:12:24.159 --> 02:12:28.479
was the smallest, um, like the half pack out.

02:12:28.520 --> 02:12:32.020
So, I mean, the listener can't see, but maybe.

02:12:32.659 --> 02:12:36.960
Ammo can. Yeah. Ammo can. Yeah. That's all we

02:12:36.960 --> 02:12:39.060
took for clothing. That was all of my clothes

02:12:39.060 --> 02:12:42.579
and all of Kaylin's clothes. Yeah. Yeah. That's

02:12:42.579 --> 02:12:44.880
nice. Because. We were just honest. I was like,

02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:47.140
all right, babe, it's going to be warm. You need,

02:12:47.199 --> 02:12:49.800
you know, let's say one shirt a day. Pick four

02:12:49.800 --> 02:12:53.260
shirts. Pick two pairs of pants and two pairs

02:12:53.260 --> 02:12:56.060
of shirts. And I'll do the same thing. Then we'll

02:12:56.060 --> 02:12:57.680
get underwear and socks in there. Boom, we're

02:12:57.680 --> 02:13:01.939
done. And I think I wore two shirts the entire

02:13:01.939 --> 02:13:06.699
weekend. Yeah. Maybe. And I think that I wore

02:13:06.699 --> 02:13:09.420
one pair of shorts. I didn't even get into my

02:13:09.420 --> 02:13:11.300
jeans. I wore one pair of shorts the whole time.

02:13:11.630 --> 02:13:13.590
Yeah. I mean, if you're being honest with yourself

02:13:13.590 --> 02:13:16.930
and to be honest with anybody who's out camping,

02:13:17.170 --> 02:13:20.409
you get dirty. You get a little stinky. I mean,

02:13:20.409 --> 02:13:23.529
it's normal when you're out camping. That's part

02:13:23.529 --> 02:13:26.489
of it. So you don't need to change your whole

02:13:26.489 --> 02:13:30.130
outfit every day. That's just pointless. I mean,

02:13:30.149 --> 02:13:32.289
nobody cares. Nobody's looking at your outfit

02:13:32.289 --> 02:13:35.189
every day and going, ugh. Everybody's doing the

02:13:35.189 --> 02:13:37.789
same thing. Plus, then you don't get to wear

02:13:37.789 --> 02:13:39.829
your cool botches Hawaiian shirt the whole time.

02:13:39.930 --> 02:13:44.159
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And, hey, on that note,

02:13:44.239 --> 02:13:47.439
we're going to probably roll it out here. This

02:13:47.439 --> 02:13:52.979
is a nice long second episode. Yes. We've got

02:13:52.979 --> 02:13:55.479
plenty of content for you. My truck's getting

02:13:55.479 --> 02:14:00.520
hot, so. You should probably pull over. Yeah.

02:14:00.659 --> 02:14:03.819
All right. Catch you guys later. Later. Catch

02:14:03.819 --> 02:14:03.979
you later.