WEBVTT 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:19.760 Welcome to Botch's Off -Road Podcast. Today it's 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.160 just me. I'm Alex, for anyone who doesn't know. 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:26.920 I guess technically it's not just me. Today I 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.280 am recording the intro for an interview that 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.579 I did last week with Tom Craig, the president 00:00:32.579 --> 00:00:34.240 of Great Lakes Four -Wheel Drive Association. 00:00:35.179 --> 00:00:37.579 It's a fantastic interview. Tom's an awesome 00:00:37.579 --> 00:00:40.039 guy. He gave me a lot of information, taught 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:44.520 me a lot about how Michigan works. And I am really 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.820 excited for you guys to listen to this. I will 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:51.039 slip in on Friday. You're going to hear a rap 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.020 about our third gen weekend. I'm editing this 00:00:54.020 --> 00:00:56.460 on Sunday. So I just got back from third gen 00:00:56.460 --> 00:00:59.679 weekend. It was a great time. So you will hear 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.340 all about it on Friday. I think we're having 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:05.879 the other two guys that were on. So it should 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:11.530 be me, Mark, Gavin. Duncan, and Shane all on 00:01:11.530 --> 00:01:13.569 one podcast. It's going to be crazy. It's going 00:01:13.569 --> 00:01:16.030 to be hard to follow along with, but it'll be 00:01:16.030 --> 00:01:18.870 great, and you'll hear all about our third gen 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:21.370 weekend where we had a great time. So not to 00:01:21.370 --> 00:01:27.049 overshadow the interview with Tom Craig, I will 00:01:27.049 --> 00:01:31.109 jump right back to past Alex, and he will get 00:01:31.109 --> 00:01:35.390 it going. So I hope you have a great day. Hey, 00:01:35.489 --> 00:01:38.170 this is Alex. Today is a little bit different 00:01:38.170 --> 00:01:43.629 of an episode. We got Tom and I'm sorry, I forgot 00:01:43.629 --> 00:01:46.950 the other guy's name. Craig? Yep. Perfect. I 00:01:46.950 --> 00:01:49.349 was dead on. We got Tom and Craig from the Great 00:01:49.349 --> 00:01:52.109 Lakes Four -Wheel Drive Association. They're 00:01:52.109 --> 00:01:55.530 big in Michigan. I'm sure they're big around 00:01:55.530 --> 00:01:59.299 Great Lakes altogether. i'll kind of give them 00:01:59.299 --> 00:02:01.799 a floor i kind of want them to be able to tell 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.040 you you know what great lakes four -wheel drive 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:08.199 association is what they stand for um you know 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:09.900 all the important things that come out of that 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:13.759 so i'll uh kind of hand it over to tom and let 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.500 him talk a little bit there so tom how you doing 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:21.939 good thanks alex uh yeah uh my name is tom craig 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:29.639 president of great lakes four -wheel drive association 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:36.219 um and what great lakes four -wheel drive association 00:02:36.219 --> 00:02:43.780 is um and we it's it was first incorporated in 00:02:43.780 --> 00:02:51.520 1969 uh so we're working on um 56 years of being 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:57.629 the um voice and advocate for full -sized four 00:02:57.629 --> 00:03:04.169 -wheel drive off -road vehicle use in uh in the 00:03:04.169 --> 00:03:07.770 great lakes area um originally i believe you 00:03:07.770 --> 00:03:11.490 know it was more widespread and you know included 00:03:11.490 --> 00:03:17.810 a lot of members from from other states um primarily 00:03:17.810 --> 00:03:23.270 our membership comes from michigan um we're all 00:03:23.270 --> 00:03:27.550 based in michigan but we do have quite a a large 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:34.610 number of uh members from the ohio area specifically 00:03:34.610 --> 00:03:40.370 uh northwest ohio um and we do have some you 00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:45.189 know from indiana and uh i believe we have one 00:03:45.189 --> 00:03:49.210 from ontario uh wow that's pretty cool yeah but 00:03:49.210 --> 00:03:51.509 uh know like the great lakes has been around 00:03:51.509 --> 00:03:58.629 you know since 1969 and you know uh we have always 00:03:58.629 --> 00:04:04.770 um been the you know the the group fighting for 00:04:04.770 --> 00:04:11.750 um access and keeping trails open uh you know 00:04:11.750 --> 00:04:17.569 the the the state would uh would prefer not to 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:22.509 have any uh you know off -road vehicles roaming 00:04:22.509 --> 00:04:26.610 around the woods and you know great lakes was 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:30.189 involved with you know the creation of the the 00:04:30.189 --> 00:04:33.850 orv system as we know it way back in the day 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:40.990 um and you know we continue to this day you know 00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:46.620 fighting to uh keep access available for everyone. 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:52.240 And, you know, we're not only fighting for the 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:54.339 full -size four -wheel drive vehicles. You know, 00:04:54.339 --> 00:04:59.560 we work with the DNR on issues relating to, you 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.819 know, 50 -inch ORV trails and, you know, side 00:05:03.819 --> 00:05:08.399 -by -side access and stuff like that. So it's, 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.899 you know... yes our primary focus is full -size 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:17.240 four -wheel drive vehicles um but we dabble in 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.779 you know all aspects of the orv program um you 00:05:21.779 --> 00:05:24.540 know what the the introduction of side by sides 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:26.680 we've kind of all been lumped together so it's 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.279 kind of i guess it'd be important to kind of 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:30.680 grow to the point where you're looking after 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:35.480 them as well yeah and and and we're we're trying 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:40.870 to figure out how to incorporate them into our 00:05:40.870 --> 00:05:43.670 organization it's it's a little difficult you 00:05:43.670 --> 00:05:48.449 know with um you know the the events that we 00:05:48.449 --> 00:05:54.670 have uh historically done you know it it requires 00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:59.629 you know a plate you know a license plate so 00:05:59.629 --> 00:06:03.149 it's you know it's it's it's a little tough um 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:10.730 but The side -by -side faction of the ORV community 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:16.970 certainly needs some organization. For sure. 00:06:19.069 --> 00:06:26.629 Yeah, thinking back, I mean, now at least I'm 00:06:26.629 --> 00:06:29.480 from New Ago County. uh to put that out there 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.660 but okay at least around here side by sides can 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:35.000 ride most of our roads they just can't ride like 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:40.439 m37 and stuff right so but i know down farther 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.240 pretty much south of us that's completely different 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:48.519 and no way goes up by the silver lake correct 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:53.240 about 40 minutes from silver lake okay we're 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:55.579 we're a little bit more east than what silver 00:06:55.579 --> 00:07:00.490 lake is obviously okay Okay. Gotcha. And then, 00:07:00.550 --> 00:07:05.110 um, you know, not to leave Craig out of the conversation. 00:07:05.149 --> 00:07:11.990 He, uh, uh, Craig is kind of our, our, um, Swiss 00:07:11.990 --> 00:07:16.009 army knife of board members. Um, pretty much 00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:20.509 whatever, whatever needs to be done, you know, 00:07:20.509 --> 00:07:23.870 Craig usually raises his hand and, uh, takes 00:07:23.870 --> 00:07:32.949 on the challenge. Um, He wears many hats. Tell 00:07:32.949 --> 00:07:38.470 us about you, Craig. Like Tom said, I'm Craig 00:07:38.470 --> 00:07:41.790 Finkelman, and I came on board with Great Lakes, 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:44.209 I don't know, what, two, two and a half years 00:07:44.209 --> 00:07:48.209 ago? Maybe. I would like that. After coming out 00:07:48.209 --> 00:07:52.970 of the club scene, and I'd see what I got. I 00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:55.470 got a bit of an education on the ORV program. 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:58.509 uh the state of michigan as i started getting 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:01.970 involved in more and more things and uh being 00:08:01.970 --> 00:08:08.129 a a jeep person now the uh it was natural for 00:08:08.129 --> 00:08:12.589 me and um i'm i'm really happy under tom's leadership 00:08:12.589 --> 00:08:14.870 and the other board members as well to be involved 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:18.490 in in what we're doing and i guess if you don't 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:21.050 mind tom i'd like to build on some things that 00:08:21.050 --> 00:08:23.790 you said that green lakes has been around for 00:08:24.269 --> 00:08:30.029 uh since 69 like tom said but we are not a club 00:08:30.029 --> 00:08:36.389 we are association we uh right we we our mission 00:08:36.389 --> 00:08:40.350 has evolved into supporting club and that the 00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:43.690 club scene has really grown uh for side by sides 00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:47.590 for uh a full -size vehicle jeeps broncos toyota 00:08:47.590 --> 00:08:51.649 uh my gosh all kinds of overland vehicles and 00:08:52.059 --> 00:08:58.919 things like that the dirt bikes the atv and everything 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:05.539 we focus on representing them in uh when it comes 00:09:05.539 --> 00:09:09.419 to things like the legislature and uh and with 00:09:09.419 --> 00:09:15.480 the dnr and that the uh we we are very all in 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.000 things like what's called the MMRC, Michigan 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.879 Motorized Recreational, I say coalition, but 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:32.440 it's council. And other things like that to have 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:36.419 the voices of the off -road community heard as 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:40.600 a user group. And also bearing in mind the voices 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:44.039 of other user groups outside of the off -road 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:48.980 community. Because we utilize, as the off -road 00:09:48.980 --> 00:09:52.899 community, we utilize shared public lands, state 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:59.600 and national forests. And that's where our niche 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:04.639 is at, really. And I don't want to take anything 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.679 away from Tom because he has devoted a lot of 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:13.230 time, of his personal time, investigating. getting 00:10:13.230 --> 00:10:16.490 intimate with a lot of things in order to be 00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:20.529 a very effective voice for the off -road community 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:24.830 um we we do do some events we do our winter blast 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:31.049 we do a uh two member meetings a year we do a 00:10:31.049 --> 00:10:35.429 toys for tots charity thing at uh rocks and valleys 00:10:35.429 --> 00:10:39.110 off -road art there in harrison michigan in december 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.769 and uh and then we We try and have a presence 00:10:43.769 --> 00:10:47.769 at other things and evolving more and more to 00:10:47.769 --> 00:10:50.470 having a presence to support the clubs and things 00:10:50.470 --> 00:10:54.190 like that, educate as much as possible about 00:10:54.190 --> 00:10:57.970 the ORB program, about responsible wheeling and 00:10:57.970 --> 00:11:02.809 stewardship. For example, this weekend, a number 00:11:02.809 --> 00:11:05.049 of us are showing up in St. Helen to support 00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:10.570 a club event for a cleanup of the state for it. 00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:14.620 Over in the St. Helen, Ogema, Roscom, and Houghton 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:17.620 Lake area, we probably will get as far away as 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:20.860 even Road City, maybe Gladwin, as we do that. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:31.740 And that's more our goal. We also do our own 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:35.340 adopt -a -forest cleanup. This year, it'll be 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:42.200 in the fall. Don't remember the exact dates off 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:43.980 the top of my head. Actually, I'm not even sure 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:47.419 if we've nailed down an exact date, but somewhere 00:11:47.419 --> 00:11:51.379 the middle of September. Well, from the 13th. 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:58.480 That's it. There you go. But, you know, like 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:04.320 Craig was saying, the cleanup in St. Helen, I 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.600 mean, it's no small event. I mean, you know. 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:16.039 you guys over the years you know have they've 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:21.779 cleaned up just an obscene amount of trash and 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:25.659 and stuff from the the woods you know and it's 00:12:25.659 --> 00:12:28.720 it's not you know it's not on the the trails 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:32.620 per se it's on the right the forest roads county 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:37.570 roads you know everywhere in between I remember 00:12:37.570 --> 00:12:40.629 when I was a kid, my family, we're an equine 00:12:40.629 --> 00:12:42.289 family, so, you know, we ride horses all the 00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:44.629 time. Yeah. And we'd be going through trails, 00:12:44.850 --> 00:12:47.950 you know, Manistee National Forest, all the way 00:12:47.950 --> 00:12:50.730 up to Pigeon River, and they would just be absolutely 00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:53.750 filled with trash. Oh, yeah. And I'd say in the 00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:57.809 last probably 10 years, Michigan as a whole, 00:12:57.950 --> 00:12:59.889 everyone's just stepped up and really done a 00:12:59.889 --> 00:13:03.149 lot of cleanups, and the state's looking good. 00:13:03.470 --> 00:13:09.490 And it is? um but if you want to you know kind 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.990 of um destroy that uh that thought that you have 00:13:13.990 --> 00:13:20.450 the dnr has a an interactive map of sites and 00:13:20.450 --> 00:13:26.370 it it's it just enrages me when i you know see 00:13:26.370 --> 00:13:29.730 all of the all the little red dots all over the 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:32.590 state of you know and and and those are just 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:37.399 dumb sites that are logged into the system and 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.220 i've i've kind of noticed um i was going through 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.659 it i think it was last week and their dump site 00:13:44.659 --> 00:13:47.240 map will be a dump site will say it's active 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.639 but it was recorded five years ago or 10 years 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.720 ago well and that's that's the thing it it may 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.299 be recorded but there hasn't been a volunteer 00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:00.440 group that has right gone out and and cleaned 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.860 it up you know the the dnr you know they you 00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:06.940 know just like any other you know government 00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:09.759 entity you know they they work on limited resources 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.320 and you know they don't have crews that go out 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:18.480 and clean up the uh the forests you know that's 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.460 where organizations like great lakes and you 00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:26.159 know wicked jeeps and you know there's um sundowners 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.360 they do one down in um like the alleghen forest 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.730 area drummond island or b club drummond island 00:14:36.730 --> 00:14:40.129 does one too you know but it's it's volunteer 00:14:40.129 --> 00:14:44.970 groups that organize this stuff and and work 00:14:44.970 --> 00:14:48.809 with the dnr you know there there's um uh a lady 00:14:48.809 --> 00:14:55.629 um that she one of her one of her many jobs is 00:14:55.629 --> 00:15:00.370 coordinating the adopt a forest program and um 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:04.259 you know there there there's grant money that 00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:06.779 they're that they get i'm not not quite sure 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:09.820 the the avenues in which they get the grant money 00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:13.940 but they usually cover the cost of the dumpsters 00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:20.379 um okay and like like last last year uh last 00:15:20.379 --> 00:15:23.539 april we had the great lakes did our cleanup 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:29.019 over um in the cadillac area and we we filled 00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:34.370 Was it three or four dumpsters, Craig? Three 00:15:34.370 --> 00:15:37.570 dumpsters, two of them. Three dumpsters. They're 00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:41.830 at Coyote Crossing and then one at the DNR office 00:15:41.830 --> 00:15:45.830 in the area. And then on top of that, we filled 00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:51.149 a, on how long is Adam's trailer, 38 foot long, 00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:54.909 gooseneck, full stack, at least six foot high, 00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:58.710 full of tires and scrap metal. Jesus. And, and. 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.120 On the same days over in St. Helen, Wicked Jeeps 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.179 filled another three dumpsters. You know, so 00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:10.820 it's, you know, yeah. Three semi -loads full 00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:15.419 of tires. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we can make a 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:20.039 dent, but, you know, the biggest thing is it 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:24.360 takes volunteers. You know, there is never a 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:28.779 shortage of... dump sites to send people out 00:16:28.779 --> 00:16:32.379 to we usually end up with you know a shortage 00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:35.899 of volunteers that we can't can't get to as many 00:16:35.899 --> 00:16:40.480 as as we would like and that's you know that's 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.940 that's that's one of the one of the biggest things 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:45.460 about great lakes that you know most people i 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:49.700 i don't i don't know that everyone fully understands 00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:51.700 it but great lakes four -wheel drive association 00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:59.789 is 100 percent volunteer run and operated and 00:16:59.789 --> 00:17:04.690 without other you know other members you know 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:09.309 stepping up and volunteering we can't exist um 00:17:09.309 --> 00:17:13.329 right you know there's there are some some other 00:17:13.329 --> 00:17:17.490 organizations uh in the state where they actually 00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:22.609 have a paid on staff you know director of their 00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:26.099 organization Great Lakes is not like that. All, 00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:31.619 you know, our membership dues go to, you know, 00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:37.720 funding, you know, either, you know, retaining 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:46.240 attorneys or paying lobbyists or, you know, and 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:51.759 as of late, we haven't even been, you know, people 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.119 that have been going to to lansing to meetings 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.960 and all that they haven't been asking for reimbursement 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.480 for their expenses you know it's been you know 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:06.779 100 volunteered um but like i said all of our 00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:09.940 all of our membership dues and you know our fundraising 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:17.200 goes to one way or another um continuing the 00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:22.670 the the fight and the mission of keeping trails 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:27.670 open and and being good stewards of the off -road 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:30.369 community and and and of the of the off -road 00:18:30.369 --> 00:18:33.349 trails and of you know the the the forests that 00:18:33.349 --> 00:18:37.589 we that we play in you know if we're not good 00:18:37.589 --> 00:18:41.450 stewards we're gonna lose it and that's we've 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:44.450 been we've been seeing it already oh yeah yeah 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:46.650 well and that that's the thing you know i've 00:18:46.650 --> 00:18:52.670 i'm i'm 52 And, you know, I've been in the off 00:18:52.670 --> 00:18:55.890 -road world since I was nine years old, riding 00:18:55.890 --> 00:19:00.569 dirt bikes. And, you know, there's so many new 00:19:00.569 --> 00:19:04.609 users out there, whether it's side -by -sides, 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:08.029 Jeeps, Toyotas, Broncos, whatever. They only 00:19:08.029 --> 00:19:13.630 know the off -road world in Michigan the way 00:19:13.630 --> 00:19:16.950 it is now, where everything is open. You know, 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:21.019 growing up, It was closed unless posted open. 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:31.299 Right. You had very, very limited writing opportunities, 00:19:31.299 --> 00:19:38.779 and now everything's open. But if we don't take 00:19:38.779 --> 00:19:42.579 care of it, there's a good chance that it goes 00:19:42.579 --> 00:19:46.319 right back to being closed unless posted open. 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:54.019 And unfortunately, too many people don't understand 00:19:54.019 --> 00:19:58.480 that and take a stance of, oh, no, you know, 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:03.279 they can't close it down. Baloney. They certainly 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.059 can close it down. Or they'll just remove it. 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:13.880 Yeah. The public act that Great Lakes was a part 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.420 of, other... groups as well happened in 1994 00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:21.740 developed the orv program it does have a clause 00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:25.839 in there that the director of the dnr pretty 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.099 much at will can close any or all for any without 00:20:30.099 --> 00:20:36.680 reason just by making an executive uh order yeah 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.880 yeah that that clause sucks yeah but you know 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:48.019 in in general One good thing that is really bolstering 00:20:48.019 --> 00:20:54.460 our relationships with not only the DNR, but 00:20:54.460 --> 00:21:00.259 legislators and all the way up to the governor's 00:21:00.259 --> 00:21:06.039 office, is the fact that the ORV community brings 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:12.549 in just an obscene amount of money into the state 00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:17.750 and yeah i mean well in excess of any other motorized 00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:24.410 recreation in the state the study from 2021 from 00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:27.430 michigan state brought it in it and mind you 00:21:27.430 --> 00:21:36.150 that was coven time frame it was 8 .19 jesus 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:40.430 yeah so you know having that in our back pocket 00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:46.299 certainly um helps in you know discussions with 00:21:46.299 --> 00:21:51.779 the dnr regarding you know uh increased riding 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:57.980 opportunities um you know the there's within 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:02.799 the trails division of the parks and rec department 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.519 which they're they're the ones that administer 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:11.210 the orv program um there's a there's a good group 00:22:11.210 --> 00:22:17.549 of people um running that that part of the uh 00:22:17.549 --> 00:22:24.349 the parks and recs department um and they they 00:22:24.349 --> 00:22:30.789 understand the uh uh the passion that groups 00:22:30.789 --> 00:22:34.769 like ours have and the the the the dedication 00:22:34.769 --> 00:22:43.789 to you know um being good stewards. Um, and they're, 00:22:43.849 --> 00:22:46.130 they, because of that, they're, they are willing 00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:53.670 to, um, you know, work with us, um, a lot more, 00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:59.069 um, and be, be a lot more open, um, than in, 00:22:59.130 --> 00:23:02.109 in years past, you know, I've, I've been involved 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:09.690 with, uh, you know, the The DNR has the ORV Advisory 00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:12.910 Workgroup, or years ago it was the ORV Advisory 00:23:12.910 --> 00:23:17.569 Board. God, they won't get back to me. I applied 00:23:17.569 --> 00:23:26.470 for it. Well, they are in process. I applied 00:23:26.470 --> 00:23:34.549 for it. Craig's applied for it. But I've been 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:43.930 involved with that off and on since 2000. Years 00:23:43.930 --> 00:23:51.950 ago, they were a lot less willing to work with 00:23:51.950 --> 00:24:04.740 organizations. And years ago, the off -road the 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.539 bigger off -road groups in the state, were kind 00:24:07.539 --> 00:24:14.640 of enemies of one another, we'll say. But in 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:20.240 recent years, interestingly enough, the thing 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:26.220 that brought us all together really was the push 00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:30.400 by the snowmobile group to ban wheeled vehicles 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:36.299 in the winter. And it really brought the ORV 00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:41.420 community together. And that's when we formed 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:46.200 the Michigan Motorized Recreation Council. You 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.240 know, we have representatives from, you know, 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.920 the full -sized ORV community, the side -by -side 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.779 community, the ATV community, the dirt bike community, 00:24:58.420 --> 00:25:05.130 law enforcement. um you know it's a it's a really 00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:11.650 um broad uh group of of people that you know 00:25:11.650 --> 00:25:14.589 have kind of joined together and and you know 00:25:14.589 --> 00:25:17.329 we realize that we're all we're all fighting 00:25:17.329 --> 00:25:22.569 the same fight you know and it's it's been an 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:27.009 opportunity for us to come together as one voice 00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:33.309 to to the dnr um and The DNR has certainly been 00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:40.369 receptive to that. Well, now that we got that 00:25:40.369 --> 00:25:41.809 out of the way, we should move on to a little 00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:43.990 more fun topic. Yeah, sure. I mean, that's fun. 00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:46.890 You just taught me a lot that I had no idea was 00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:50.230 going on in the state. So this is one of those 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:52.490 episodes I'll look back on and probably find 00:25:52.490 --> 00:25:54.230 more stuff that I missed while we were talking. 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:57.279 well and if i could add one more thing you know 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.279 something else that yeah no go ahead the general 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:06.880 public or a a large amount of the general public 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.460 doesn't quite understand is the trails and routes 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:19.140 and stuff the dnr the dnr doesn't do any of the 00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.619 maintenance or work or development of those trails 00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:30.650 That's all done by the volunteer clubs, organizations 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:34.769 like ours. You know, there's, you know, like 00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:42.130 over in Lake County, it's the Irons Area Tourist 00:26:42.130 --> 00:26:45.869 Association that takes care of all that. And 00:26:45.869 --> 00:26:51.029 it's all volunteer labor. You know, yes, the 00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:55.440 organizations get reimbursed. you know x amount 00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:02.599 per mile um and you know most of the organizations 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:06.579 in turn you know give a portion of that money 00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:09.440 you know to reimburse the the volunteers for 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.059 their their expenses you know and we're using 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.839 our own vehicles and our own gas and you know 00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.460 you know in most cases our own chainsaws and 00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:24.759 whatnot um but all of these trails wouldn't exist 00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.579 if it wasn't for volunteers getting out there 00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:32.180 and doing it and you know um you know and it 00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:35.380 it kind of it bugs me now and then when when 00:27:35.380 --> 00:27:38.039 people complain oh the state needs to make this 00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:41.880 trail better all this well no you need to get 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.920 off your butt get out there find who what club 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.380 maintains that trail that you have an issue with 00:27:48.380 --> 00:27:51.559 and get out there and volunteer with them that's 00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:55.039 the do we have Do we have like an Adopt -A -Trail 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:57.859 or is it just the Adopt -A -Forest program? No, 00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:04.680 so the way that the trails and routes work is 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:11.460 we, like Great Lakes, we maintain, is it about 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:18.680 200 miles, Craig? I think it's in total 498 or 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:24.150 something like that. Oh, okay. Every year, I 00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:26.170 think it's actually due like the 1st of May. 00:28:26.309 --> 00:28:30.390 So it's, um, JR's working on it. Uh, JR Osborne's 00:28:30.390 --> 00:28:34.369 our trail maintenance, uh, director. Um, but 00:28:34.369 --> 00:28:39.089 we, we put in a grant request, um, every year 00:28:39.089 --> 00:28:41.970 and, and all the, all of the other clubs and 00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:45.210 organizations do as well. And, you know, that, 00:28:45.369 --> 00:28:50.069 you know, we, we're going to maintain, you know, 00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:54.000 for us we don't do any grading of routes we do 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.980 the the signage and brushing you know keeping 00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:00.619 the trick of them trimmed back so we apply for 00:29:00.619 --> 00:29:06.480 that those miles and then you know we get you 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:12.160 know issued that that grant for um doing that 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:14.940 that maintenance so it's not it's not like a 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.640 adopt a trail type of thing it's actually you 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.519 know applying for the grants to to do that and 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:26.200 the orv the orv program um you know the funding 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.519 of it is it's a hundred percent user funded there's 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:34.160 not a not a single penny of taxpayer money that 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.660 goes into it it's a hundred percent user funded 00:29:37.660 --> 00:29:45.390 uh by uh orv stickers and trail permits um and 00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:50.309 then you know there's a 50 goes to trail maintenance 00:29:50.309 --> 00:29:54.970 and development another percentage goes to uh 00:29:54.970 --> 00:29:58.609 damage restoration another percentage goes to 00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:04.569 law enforcement um another i i can never remember 00:30:04.569 --> 00:30:09.049 all of the pieces of pie but it's it's um the 00:30:09.049 --> 00:30:14.319 education and training administration fee administration 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:17.480 part of it is actually a relatively small percentage 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:25.500 yeah but and and and you know if if someone is 00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:31.059 trying to find out who uh what what organization 00:30:31.059 --> 00:30:35.720 maintains a certain trail or route um on the 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:40.420 dnr's website on their interactive map of um 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:46.039 the the orv system you can click on whatever 00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:51.220 router trail you're interested in and a pop -up 00:30:51.220 --> 00:30:53.220 window will come come up and you can you know 00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:56.640 there's usually like three or four pages to a 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.220 the pop -up window but you can arrow over and 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:03.920 it'll tell you what organization maintains that 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.700 trail so from there then you can contact them 00:31:07.700 --> 00:31:11.299 and say hey i want to help out with you know 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:17.740 such and such a trail and um you know most most 00:31:17.740 --> 00:31:21.579 organizations require you to be a member to um 00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:25.779 participate in the in the trail maintenance stuff 00:31:25.779 --> 00:31:28.680 and it's it's primarily an insurance aspect of 00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:33.740 it but um but yeah it if if someone wants to 00:31:33.740 --> 00:31:37.579 get out and help there you know you can look 00:31:37.579 --> 00:31:41.420 at that map and you know it's not gonna you know 00:31:41.420 --> 00:31:45.680 jump right out yeah you gotta you gotta dig a 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:47.480 little bit you know the dnr doesn't make anything 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.519 easy as far as finding information but um no 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.440 they don't know but i think i just found that 00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:56.220 map though which is what i was really interested 00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:02.359 in um and frankly if if anyone has a question 00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:07.559 of you know you know i i want to help with you 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:12.410 know xyz trail They can feel free to send me 00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:21.930 an email, president at GLFWDA .org, and most 00:32:21.930 --> 00:32:27.430 likely I've got the contact of whomever maintains 00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:31.109 a trail, and we can get them in contact with 00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:35.190 them. Facebook Messenger on our Facebook page 00:32:35.190 --> 00:32:38.650 is another good way to go to contact us quick. 00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:43.519 And actually being on the ORV advisory work group 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:49.240 subcommittee for that, I just recently acquired 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:53.940 all the grant sponsors' names and contact information. 00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:02.559 So we do have it available. Yeah, because I did 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.940 not know that they had that, but now I'm on the 00:33:04.940 --> 00:33:07.400 website and I can see it says who maintains it, 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:14.750 which is really cool. Yeah, so I was, I can't 00:33:14.750 --> 00:33:16.650 remember if it was you or if it was posted to 00:33:16.650 --> 00:33:21.150 the Facebook group, but you posted something 00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:25.789 about how the ORV, how the permits work and how 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:29.250 the DNR doesn't actually put any money towards 00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:31.670 trails. I had no idea about that, so that was 00:33:31.670 --> 00:33:35.690 really interesting. Yeah, and that's, you know. 00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:43.799 That's the unique aspect of our sport is we're 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:50.359 100 % user -funded. And there's no burden on 00:33:50.359 --> 00:34:03.500 the taxpayers for our recreation. Yeah, that's 00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:09.590 really cool. On to a fun topic. Tom, what is 00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:15.630 your rig? Well, I guess it depends on the day 00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:23.190 and the weather. That's a good answer. So, like 00:34:23.190 --> 00:34:27.309 I said, I started off, you know, when I was nine 00:34:27.309 --> 00:34:31.989 years old, riding dirt bikes. And then in the 00:34:31.989 --> 00:34:36.710 early 2000s, I got into... four -wheelers now 00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:42.750 i had i had i had had um jeeps prior to that 00:34:42.750 --> 00:34:48.750 um i actually i got i got my first jeep um oh 00:34:48.750 --> 00:34:51.690 about a month after i graduated high school in 00:34:51.690 --> 00:34:57.769 1991 and since then i've only gone i've gone 00:34:57.769 --> 00:35:06.760 one year without owning a jeep um and Like I 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:13.960 said, I got into quads for a while, and actually 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:19.239 I still ride quads. My wife and kids and I, we 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:23.199 ride up in the Higgins Lake Grailing area quite 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:28.320 frequently. Okay. Just not right now. Well, no, 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:34.480 I just haven't gotten out yet this year. Isn't 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.079 that, uh, that's one of the spots affected by 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.539 the ice storms, right? No, um, north of Grayling 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:44.480 it's affected. Uh, okay. Okay. Yeah. We're, we're, 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.239 we're, we have a, we have a cottage, uh, near, 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:52.119 uh, the west side of Higgins Lake and it, it, 00:35:52.179 --> 00:35:56.099 there's no, no damage from the storm there at 00:35:56.099 --> 00:36:02.429 all. But yeah, so I still have, we've got four 00:36:02.429 --> 00:36:14.510 quads, and then I've got a 2024 Wrangler. Actually, 00:36:14.510 --> 00:36:24.690 I've got a 25 sitting at the lot. I just have 00:36:24.690 --> 00:36:26.780 to get the time to actually go and... pick it 00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:37.880 up but um then i've got a uh 1965 cj6 that's 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:42.059 nice just uh it's a lawn ornament at this point 00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:46.739 in time um but eventually it'll be a a trail 00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:52.340 rig of some sort and then my main off -road vehicle 00:36:52.340 --> 00:37:00.659 is, uh, I've got a 2005 LJ. Um, it's, uh, that's 00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:05.659 a, a mild build. Um, you know, I've, I've got, 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:12.559 uh, I don't even know how much lift because it's 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.079 a, it's a Frankenstein, you know, suspension 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:21.320 system that I've built myself. Um, but air lockers 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:27.400 35s uh winch um you know all the you know standard 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.780 stuff you know yeah it's running 35s and that's 00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:34.940 you know 35s nowadays are like the the 31s of 00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:38.880 years years past but yeah you know i the way 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:43.340 i look at it is there there's nothing in michigan 00:37:43.340 --> 00:37:46.820 that has uh challenged me to the point that i 00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:52.690 need something more than 35s And, you know, my 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:56.929 opinion is, you know, all these guys running 00:37:56.929 --> 00:38:03.730 around on 40s, you know, they don't have to rely 00:38:03.730 --> 00:38:08.650 on talent to get over stuff as much as people 00:38:08.650 --> 00:38:15.030 with lesser tires. I did all of Moab on 31s back 00:38:15.030 --> 00:38:19.449 in 2017. Yeah. I, I did, you know, granted this 00:38:19.449 --> 00:38:22.670 was years ago, but I did all of Drummond Island 00:38:22.670 --> 00:38:28.949 on, uh, 30 inch, 30 by nine and a halves. And 00:38:28.949 --> 00:38:33.889 wow. You know, it, nothing, there was, there 00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:36.110 was nothing I couldn't, couldn't do. You know, 00:38:36.110 --> 00:38:40.929 granted Drummond wasn't as rutted out as much 00:38:40.929 --> 00:38:46.579 as it is now, but you know, um, But, yeah, 35s 00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:51.300 are, you know, I think the right size for Michigan. 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:57.559 I agree. I'll be going 35s probably right after, 00:38:57.579 --> 00:39:01.260 probably July or August, I'll be going to 35s. 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:10.530 My 33s are pretty well on their way out. Yeah. 00:39:10.590 --> 00:39:12.829 You're I was stalking you just before we got 00:39:12.829 --> 00:39:16.590 on your LJ sick. Oh, thanks. Thanks. It's a, 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:21.730 you know, it, it, it looks great in pictures 00:39:21.730 --> 00:39:26.250 from, you know, you know, 20 feet. Um, it's, 00:39:26.250 --> 00:39:31.670 uh, you know, it's, it's been abused. Um, you 00:39:31.670 --> 00:39:36.170 know, it, uh, you know, it, it was a really, 00:39:36.170 --> 00:39:40.139 really pretty Jeep and, you know, the unfortunate 00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:44.019 thing is, you know, trees and brush take a, take 00:39:44.019 --> 00:39:49.519 a toll on it. And, and, you know, uh, the, uh, 00:39:49.659 --> 00:39:52.679 heck the fact that, you know, the last couple 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.239 of years, the vast majority of my wheeling has 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:00.420 been in the winter. So between brush and salt 00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:04.219 and everything, it's, you know, it's not as pretty 00:40:04.219 --> 00:40:07.019 as it was, you know, a few years back, but, uh, 00:40:07.420 --> 00:40:09.380 Every once in a while, I get the right light 00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:12.900 for a picture, and it looks pretty decent. Yeah, 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:17.320 I've got a yellow 2000 TJ that's all tore apart 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:19.139 in my pole barn right now. Oh, there you go. 00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:24.320 Right now, I do the Toyota thing. I made a hard 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.960 change from Jeeps to Toyotas. There's nothing 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:35.000 wrong with Toyotas. They are truly amazing. sometimes 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.840 what they can do. It's just incredible. I've 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.880 been very surprised by this little 98 4Runner 00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:47.539 I've got. It does things that I don't even expect 00:40:47.539 --> 00:40:54.260 out of an XJ, let alone an IFS rig. Yeah. But 00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:58.099 yeah, so my TJ, the last work I had done on it 00:40:58.099 --> 00:41:01.860 was in 2018. I sent it to Jeep Armory, and they 00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:05.420 rebuilt the frame. Okay. That's how long it's 00:41:05.420 --> 00:41:11.280 been since I've touched it. Yeah. But, I mean, 00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:15.099 I loved my Jeep. I did all of Moab. I did a lot 00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:17.300 of wheeling in Arizona. I mean, it just kept 00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:20.860 going until it decided it couldn't go anymore 00:41:20.860 --> 00:41:26.719 and threw a cylinder through a wall. Yeah. Are 00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:30.119 you one of those guys that blew up a four -liter? 00:41:31.690 --> 00:41:34.329 Uh, no, mine was a two point squirrel. Okay. 00:41:34.409 --> 00:41:38.070 All right. Cause I, I always, it always amazes 00:41:38.070 --> 00:41:43.230 me how, you know, people can blow up a, a four 00:41:43.230 --> 00:41:49.250 liter I've over the years. I think I've, I've 00:41:49.250 --> 00:41:53.550 put well over a million miles on four liters 00:41:53.550 --> 00:41:56.750 throughout, throughout all of, all of them that 00:41:56.750 --> 00:42:02.780 I've had. Uh, uh, I just, I don't understand 00:42:02.780 --> 00:42:06.440 it. I don't, I don't understand how, how someone 00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:10.260 can, can blow up a four liter. Um, I mean, I 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:15.199 had the, the, my highest mileage one was, um, 00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:25.559 uh, 289 ,000 miles. And, you know, it, it didn't 00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.940 burn any oil at, you know, almost 300 ,000 miles. 00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:35.760 Well, I don't know. Yeah, my two -point squirrel 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:40.260 at like 120 ,000 was burning oil. And then I 00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:42.500 decided it needed some more power and put a turbo 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:45.400 on it. Well, yeah, that'll do it. That lasted 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:53.400 about 20 ,000 miles. Yeah. No one buys a Jeep 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:59.500 because, you know, they're powerful. Yeah. I 00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:02.559 just, if I had a 4 .0, I would have been fine. 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:05.059 Just crawling some of the, I was stationed in 00:43:05.059 --> 00:43:08.800 Arizona, so I went from a Jeep built for Michigan 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:11.159 to wheeling, you know, rocks and crawling in 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:14.480 Arizona. Yeah. And it just needed that little 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:21.539 bit more. Yeah. So were you, in Arizona, were 00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:26.900 you in Yuma? No, I was down by Sierra Vista, 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:31.460 down by the border. Ah, okay. Gotcha. Fort Huachuca. 00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:37.079 Oh. Is that Air Force or? Army. Oh, Army. Okay. 00:43:37.420 --> 00:43:41.059 Gotcha. Like I said, I used to spend a lot of 00:43:41.059 --> 00:43:49.579 time out in Arizona for work. And with the Yuma 00:43:49.579 --> 00:43:57.059 Proving Grounds out there. But I'd never heard 00:43:57.059 --> 00:44:01.510 of. that that military base that uh that you 00:44:01.510 --> 00:44:05.289 were at but but i most of my time was in in the 00:44:05.289 --> 00:44:09.449 phoenix phoenix area and then uh kingman and 00:44:09.449 --> 00:44:15.389 uh lake havasu area i know i think population 00:44:15.389 --> 00:44:18.409 density wise fort wachuk is the smallest post 00:44:18.409 --> 00:44:24.110 in the army so it's there's a lot of land with 00:44:24.110 --> 00:44:28.500 a very few people at it gotcha okay Cool. Lots 00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:30.980 of rock crawling. Yeah. Lots and lots of it. 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:38.719 Yep. Yeah. My one and only off -roading experience 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:45.519 in Arizona, for work we did some off -road testing 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:50.800 in the Parker area. And there's some really cool 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:56.380 off -road trails around there. and up by kingman 00:44:56.380 --> 00:45:00.260 there's a there's a bunch of um really cool stuff 00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:07.559 up there too but yeah i oh man you're talking 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:12.320 like parker canyon area uh right yeah the parker 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:15.579 like right right along the um the the river there 00:45:15.579 --> 00:45:20.260 you go yeah uh what would that be east there's 00:45:20.260 --> 00:45:24.559 there's a the desert bar uh is in that area i 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:29.179 can't can't remember what they the the recreation 00:45:29.179 --> 00:45:33.039 area there but it's it there's all sorts of little 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:38.840 canyons and um you know they they the canyons 00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:43.440 might only be you know 15 feet deep but you know 00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.019 you're you're wheeling in these little slot canyons 00:45:47.019 --> 00:45:52.340 and it's it's pretty cool stuff but yeah I think 00:45:52.340 --> 00:45:54.639 last I heard, they'd shut the bar down. I don't 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.860 know if it's still. Yeah, I don't know. They 00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:02.960 open, they close. I never actually got to go 00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:08.699 there, but yeah. It was a good time. When I went, 00:46:08.780 --> 00:46:13.019 the trail was pretty tore up because it was right 00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:17.880 after monsoon season. Ah. But I hear that it's 00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:20.320 not too bad for even a two -wheel drive rig most 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:27.110 of the year. Yeah. Yeah. But, all right. It's 00:46:27.110 --> 00:46:30.769 been really good talking to you guys. You taught 00:46:30.769 --> 00:46:32.989 me a lot. I've actually got questions that I'm 00:46:32.989 --> 00:46:34.650 going to have to put together and reach out about 00:46:34.650 --> 00:46:43.730 now. Well, did you want me to touch on the situation 00:46:43.730 --> 00:46:47.849 on Drummond Island as well? You know, that is 00:46:47.849 --> 00:46:51.309 up to you. Personally, I'd love to hear about 00:46:51.309 --> 00:46:53.610 it, but I know it's a touchy subject to a lot 00:46:53.610 --> 00:46:59.889 of people. I think the more information we can 00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:05.449 get out there, the less touchy it will be. I 00:47:05.449 --> 00:47:15.329 agree. The short story is the work that was done 00:47:15.329 --> 00:47:23.400 out there. Yeah, it's unfortunate. But ultimately 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:34.579 on Marblehead, we didn't lose any experience, 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:42.860 we'll say. So before this happened, and some 00:47:42.860 --> 00:47:46.860 people may not be 100 % familiar with the steps 00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:50.860 at Marblehead. but there's a clump of trees and 00:47:50.860 --> 00:47:57.000 prior to this everything north of the clump of 00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.179 trees that the the bypass as they were calling 00:48:00.179 --> 00:48:05.739 it that was illegal right um it was only everything 00:48:05.739 --> 00:48:11.719 from the trees south well they they smoothed 00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:16.420 out the the the easy line on the far south end 00:48:16.420 --> 00:48:25.000 of the the steps and Through Discussions I had 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:32.780 with with various people in in the DNR They made 00:48:32.780 --> 00:48:44.840 the concession that All of the Existing bypasses 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:49.500 so everything north of the trees now is legal 00:48:49.500 --> 00:48:54.780 so yes they smoothed out a small section to the 00:48:54.780 --> 00:49:01.059 south but we gained the legal access to everything 00:49:01.059 --> 00:49:05.420 to the north but they also took out the whole 00:49:05.420 --> 00:49:10.320 trail to get there well the so the and and uh 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:17.260 i'm i'm getting to that So it's a very complicated, 00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:30.039 convoluted story. So all of that land, basically 00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:37.139 the southeast end of Drummond Island, all of 00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:42.949 that land was originally purchased with... what 00:49:42.949 --> 00:49:50.469 is called state game fund money so what the state 00:49:50.469 --> 00:50:00.250 game fund is is a uh a fund set up that is funded 00:50:00.250 --> 00:50:08.670 by fishing and hunting licenses and the reason 00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:15.730 that the state that set up is it is a federal 00:50:15.730 --> 00:50:21.670 requirement that the state has that state game 00:50:21.670 --> 00:50:29.769 fund to be able to get federal Pittman -Robertson 00:50:29.769 --> 00:50:38.030 Act funds. The state has to have a restricted 00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:45.210 use fund that is solely for fish and wildlife 00:50:45.210 --> 00:50:50.670 uh uh conservation whatever and that that's what 00:50:50.670 --> 00:50:55.730 the state game fund is so it's it's there's been 00:50:55.730 --> 00:50:58.849 a lot of mis uh miscommunication about you know 00:50:58.849 --> 00:51:01.210 that the land out there is pitman robertson act 00:51:01.210 --> 00:51:06.510 money or pitman robertson act funded land it's 00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:16.010 not But it's funded by the State Game Fund, which 00:51:16.010 --> 00:51:24.050 has to be managed and treated as if it was Pittman 00:51:24.050 --> 00:51:28.130 -Robertson Act money. I know that's probably 00:51:28.130 --> 00:51:35.079 clear as mud. Yeah. So what it comes down to 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:37.900 is all of that land out there that the trails 00:51:37.900 --> 00:51:45.159 lie on was purchased with restricted funds. And 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:52.280 by the letter of the law, the primary use of 00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:58.579 that land has to be for the betterment of fish 00:51:58.579 --> 00:52:06.380 and wildlife. They, so they're, they're years 00:52:06.380 --> 00:52:13.820 ago and I can't remember the date. It might've 00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:17.780 been 2015. The last time that the feds had been 00:52:17.780 --> 00:52:22.719 out to do a, an audit, so to speak. Um, and they 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:28.800 noted, you know, 10 years ago, um, issues with, 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:36.679 um, excessively rutted trails um braided trails 00:52:36.679 --> 00:52:41.159 so bypasses and bypasses of bypasses and all 00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:49.260 that um so if if the feds deem and they and they 00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:53.280 did note that it it was obvious that the primary 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:58.739 use of that land was not for fish and wildlife 00:52:58.739 --> 00:53:09.619 it was for off -road vehicle usage um so the 00:53:09.619 --> 00:53:15.320 um the state has done you know their own internal 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:20.360 audits um and that that would be the the um wildlife 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:26.079 division has done their own audits and in in 00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:30.320 anticipation of the federal audit, which will 00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:39.320 come in 2027. But, you know, they want to kind 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.760 of nip it in the bud before the federal audit. 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:47.820 Because, you know, if the state loses Pittman 00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:52.000 -Robertson Act funding, that's, you know, millions 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:57.619 and millions of dollars of wildlife management 00:53:57.619 --> 00:54:01.119 funding funding that the state would lose um 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:10.360 right so the the the thing that that the the 00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:16.139 wildlife division in the dnr is there they understand 00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:20.960 that you know the the orv trails have been there 00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:27.150 for decades they're major part of the economy 00:54:27.150 --> 00:54:30.869 of the island and they don't right uh you know 00:54:30.869 --> 00:54:34.989 my my latest conversation with the the deputy 00:54:34.989 --> 00:54:40.070 director or deputy chief of the wildlife division 00:54:40.070 --> 00:54:43.369 is they have they have no intentions that they 00:54:43.369 --> 00:54:50.090 of closing down the the trails they want to work 00:54:50.090 --> 00:54:55.360 with all of the other divisions to And stakeholders 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:59.619 like Great Lakes, like Drummond Island Off -Road 00:54:59.619 --> 00:55:05.280 Club, like Jeep Jamboree, they want to work together 00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.420 to come up with a solution. What that solution 00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:16.199 is, we don't know yet. So the DNR has like an 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:23.710 internal committee, we'll say, of... People from 00:55:23.710 --> 00:55:26.690 the various different divisions that are working 00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:32.550 on coming up with some sort of equitable solution 00:55:32.550 --> 00:55:39.909 for all parties. Um, and like I said, it's, it's 00:55:39.909 --> 00:55:44.829 in the very early stages. Um, but you know, the, 00:55:44.929 --> 00:55:49.050 the one, one of the biggest things and the DNR 00:55:49.050 --> 00:55:51.190 is they're, they're kind of sticklers about this 00:55:51.190 --> 00:55:55.610 for. whatever reason i don't know um but there's 00:55:55.610 --> 00:55:59.670 a there's a regulation that state forest roads 00:55:59.670 --> 00:56:05.210 have to be passable by conventional two -wheel 00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:14.070 drive pickup truck um and that was that was one 00:56:14.070 --> 00:56:19.369 of the the the reasons that the um the they called 00:56:19.369 --> 00:56:22.409 it the the mini steps on the the trail leading 00:56:22.409 --> 00:56:29.550 out to marblehead that um because that i i was 00:56:29.550 --> 00:56:34.190 i was on there out there not last year the year 00:56:34.190 --> 00:56:39.329 before and those mini steps in my opinion were 00:56:39.329 --> 00:56:42.869 more of a challenge than marblehead themselves 00:56:42.869 --> 00:56:47.780 um and that i agree it had never been like that 00:56:47.780 --> 00:56:54.880 i years back i had driven all the way to marblehead 00:56:54.880 --> 00:57:01.159 in two -wheel drive and um you know that that 00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:08.360 was with my uh my zj on 32s i drove all the way 00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:11.539 to marblehead in two -wheel drive that those 00:57:11.539 --> 00:57:15.960 mini steps have gotten worn away worn more and 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:20.699 more and more uh because of increased use to 00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:25.019 the point that they weren't passable by a two 00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:29.099 -wheel drive vehicle so for for a number of reasons 00:57:29.099 --> 00:57:35.800 you know um maintenance for um uh emergency vehicle 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:41.500 access that that that was why they smooth that 00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:48.239 out and you know and talking with um people that 00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:50.800 you know have spent their whole life wheeling 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:55.019 that island they said you know give it you know 00:57:55.019 --> 00:57:58.440 three to five years and it'll be a challenge 00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:02.159 again that's it's limestone that's just how it 00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:06.320 works um right you know they they the drummond 00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:09.679 island off -road club um and that the thing with 00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:12.119 all of this is you know the drummond island off 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:15.920 -road club took the brunt of the beating from 00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:21.500 the public for this they they did not have any 00:58:21.500 --> 00:58:25.820 involvement in any of the stuff that was done 00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:27.920 out on the island that was a hundred percent 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:33.989 a dnr project um i I've kind of gathered that 00:58:33.989 --> 00:58:36.190 I've sat through a few of their meetings now 00:58:36.190 --> 00:58:38.409 and definitely they don't, I mean, they seem 00:58:38.409 --> 00:58:41.030 just as blindsided as everyone else was. Yeah. 00:58:41.030 --> 00:58:46.329 So, um, but they, you know, in, in talking with 00:58:46.329 --> 00:58:48.429 the people that were out there doing, you know, 00:58:48.429 --> 00:58:50.690 that did the work, you know, the, the attempt 00:58:50.690 --> 00:58:56.130 was made to, you know, try to, you know, create 00:58:56.130 --> 00:59:01.590 a, uh, an easy bypass over the, the, the mini 00:59:01.590 --> 00:59:06.280 steps. Um, but there's a, there's basically a 00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:10.420 limestone ridge that runs for like a half mile. 00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:14.719 So there, there was nowhere that they could bypass 00:59:14.719 --> 00:59:21.179 that. Um, so yeah, unfortunately that was, that 00:59:21.179 --> 00:59:32.929 was taken out. Um, but, um, it. The increased 00:59:32.929 --> 00:59:39.789 use, you know, has really taken a toll on the 00:59:39.789 --> 00:59:42.710 trails on the island. You know, the ruts are 00:59:42.710 --> 00:59:49.170 getting deeper. Ledges are getting steeper. And 00:59:49.170 --> 00:59:53.070 the ledges, that's not really where the issue 00:59:53.070 --> 00:59:57.849 lies. The ruts are where the issues really lie. 01:00:00.259 --> 01:00:06.460 especially out at uh tank traps um yeah paint 01:00:06.460 --> 01:00:12.980 traps I so it had been probably six seven years 01:00:12.980 --> 01:00:16.579 since I had been out to tank traps and I was 01:00:16.579 --> 01:00:22.239 just appalled by just what a cluster it has turned 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:28.809 into um and that's that area is a huge sticking 01:00:28.809 --> 01:00:34.090 point for the wildlife division and for the um 01:00:34.090 --> 01:00:39.869 the feds um because I mean it's it is flat out 01:00:39.869 --> 01:00:44.929 turned into a scramble area um and it's bad and 01:00:44.929 --> 01:00:47.989 and that's that's one of the ideas floating around 01:00:47.989 --> 01:00:54.880 is okay well if we you know that however many 01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:59.340 acres that may might be 40 50 acres uh whatever 01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:05.860 that the orv fund you know purchases that basically 01:01:05.860 --> 01:01:12.659 from the the the wildlife division and designates 01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:15.219 it as a scramble area that's that's one of the 01:01:15.219 --> 01:01:18.400 ideas um others is you know there's there's some 01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:21.059 holes there that i mean just from a safety standpoint 01:01:21.059 --> 01:01:25.030 they need to be filled i i and people will chastise 01:01:25.030 --> 01:01:28.469 me for saying that they need to be filled i was 01:01:28.469 --> 01:01:32.909 out there in august when it was dry and standing 01:01:32.909 --> 01:01:34.269 in the bottom of these holes and they're eight 01:01:34.269 --> 01:01:38.329 feet deep i'm sorry someone someone out there 01:01:38.329 --> 01:01:40.710 on a quad which i've ridden the island on a quad 01:01:40.710 --> 01:01:46.230 they roll into a water hole like that their their 01:01:46.230 --> 01:01:51.079 machine's gone i mean i i sent you I sent you 01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:54.940 a video from Instagram from my forerunner being 01:01:54.940 --> 01:01:58.360 underwater out of the tank traps. I mean, it 01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:02.380 gets deep out there. Yeah, in the spring, I mean, 01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:08.900 everywhere on the island. I've sank my ZJ out 01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:16.300 there on the North Fork. And, yeah, I mean, it's 01:02:16.300 --> 01:02:20.530 five foot deep in the spring. but yeah i mean 01:02:20.530 --> 01:02:22.510 they're like i said there's a lot of a lot of 01:02:22.510 --> 01:02:31.389 places that are just they've been left to fester 01:02:31.389 --> 01:02:36.769 into what they are now um you know uh and the 01:02:36.769 --> 01:02:40.789 you know the dnr will or at least the the trail 01:02:40.789 --> 01:02:44.250 specialist for that area you know he will you 01:02:44.250 --> 01:02:46.469 know admit that you know over the years there 01:02:46.469 --> 01:02:52.210 hasn't been uh enough of an an eye on the island 01:02:52.210 --> 01:02:57.929 by the dnr um that that's going to change um 01:02:57.929 --> 01:03:00.570 you know another another thing that's a big sticking 01:03:00.570 --> 01:03:06.250 point is the um driving on the beaches now there 01:03:06.250 --> 01:03:10.690 there there is only one place one place in the 01:03:10.690 --> 01:03:13.889 entire state of michigan where it is legal to 01:03:13.889 --> 01:03:19.269 ride on the beach and that is southeast beach 01:03:19.269 --> 01:03:23.570 over out by uh plywood camp on drummond island 01:03:23.570 --> 01:03:27.309 where the trail comes out and you know and there's 01:03:27.309 --> 01:03:30.090 kind of like a wetland area it comes around that 01:03:30.090 --> 01:03:32.650 comes out onto the beach for about 200 yards 01:03:32.650 --> 01:03:35.550 and back into the woods right by plywood camp 01:03:35.550 --> 01:03:39.190 that is the only place that it's legal to ride 01:03:39.190 --> 01:03:44.309 on the beach in the state of michigan um unfortunately 01:03:46.110 --> 01:03:52.030 glen cove pilot cove shale beach people are driving 01:03:52.030 --> 01:03:54.289 out there people are you know driving into the 01:03:54.289 --> 01:03:56.750 water i mean heck even at at southeast beach 01:03:56.750 --> 01:03:59.369 people are driving out into the water and getting 01:03:59.369 --> 01:04:02.150 pictures because oh it looks cool well yeah you 01:04:02.150 --> 01:04:05.869 post that up on on instagram or facebook and 01:04:05.869 --> 01:04:11.730 the dnr sees it and the dnr has tracked people 01:04:11.730 --> 01:04:14.760 down because of uh photos like that like some 01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:20.380 years ago people drove into the water at fossil 01:04:20.380 --> 01:04:26.539 ledges and how did they even get down there i'm 01:04:26.539 --> 01:04:30.719 i'm not 100 sure but they did it people jesus 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:35.239 and and the off -road community really banded 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:38.780 together to track down who it was and the dnr 01:04:38.780 --> 01:04:42.739 caught him and they smacked them with some major 01:04:42.739 --> 01:04:47.519 major fines um good but you know the the the 01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:50.420 the beach is like again that's one of the big 01:04:50.420 --> 01:04:53.039 sticking points with the the wildlife division 01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.940 um you know and they they've been blocked off 01:04:56.940 --> 01:05:01.099 with big boulders but people you know take that 01:05:01.099 --> 01:05:03.800 as a challenge oh i can winch that that rock 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:06.119 out of the way and i can get get out on the beach 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.139 you know oh what harm is it doing i'm just you 01:05:09.139 --> 01:05:12.500 know it's just one person out well that one person 01:05:12.500 --> 01:05:14.940 turns into ten turns into a hundred turns into 01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:20.059 a thousand and you know then we lose access um 01:05:20.059 --> 01:05:25.159 so yeah i guess you know my my my short little 01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:31.440 story about drummond a little uh a little long 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:33.880 -winded but you know craig can attest that uh 01:05:33.880 --> 01:05:38.969 i'm i'm known for being long -winded there's 01:05:38.969 --> 01:05:40.949 there's no one better to know what's going on 01:05:40.949 --> 01:05:43.210 than you guys i mean you've you've done most 01:05:43.210 --> 01:05:46.030 of the footwork here in michigan anyway so yeah 01:05:46.030 --> 01:05:50.050 so well we're we've we've built good relationships 01:05:50.050 --> 01:05:54.429 out you know out of the the you know negative 01:05:54.429 --> 01:05:58.130 of the work that was done out on drummond out 01:05:58.130 --> 01:06:01.849 of that has come a a good working relationship 01:06:01.849 --> 01:06:07.699 with the dnr for that area um and a you know 01:06:07.699 --> 01:06:12.260 an improved relationship with uh drummond island 01:06:12.260 --> 01:06:14.800 off -road club i mean great lakes has always 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:20.179 had um strong ties to drummond island off -road 01:06:20.179 --> 01:06:25.179 club but you know it everyone kind of drifted 01:06:25.179 --> 01:06:27.820 apart for a while and you know and now we're 01:06:27.820 --> 01:06:29.980 we're kind of coming back and you know and it's 01:06:29.980 --> 01:06:34.159 you know and they from what i've gathered the 01:06:34.940 --> 01:06:37.320 Drummond Island Off -Road Club of today is not 01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:39.420 the Drummond Island Off -Road Club of 10 years 01:06:39.420 --> 01:06:45.400 ago. No, it is not. So the founding members, 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:53.760 one being Steve Walker, Steve's really gotten 01:06:53.760 --> 01:07:01.340 up there in age, and he's not involved much at 01:07:01.340 --> 01:07:08.530 all in the off -road world. But after he and 01:07:08.530 --> 01:07:11.309 some of the original members kind of drifted 01:07:11.309 --> 01:07:15.469 away, the Drummond Island Tourist Association 01:07:15.469 --> 01:07:21.670 took over as the grant sponsor. So technically, 01:07:22.690 --> 01:07:26.949 Drummond Island Off -Road, I think they're calling 01:07:26.949 --> 01:07:35.050 it Drummond Island Off -Road Corporation, the 01:07:35.050 --> 01:07:37.789 drummond island tourist association so they're 01:07:37.789 --> 01:07:42.570 they are the ones doing you know applying for 01:07:42.570 --> 01:07:46.570 the the maintenance grants for the uh the trail 01:07:46.570 --> 01:07:52.230 system both 50 inch trail and uh orv route um 01:07:52.230 --> 01:07:59.289 so yes it it's it it is not the same off -road 01:07:59.289 --> 01:08:07.739 club that it was um and it Um, um, I'm, I'm optimistic 01:08:07.739 --> 01:08:13.400 that it's going to be a positive thing. Um, the 01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:17.680 way that, that things are structured now, um, 01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:24.659 but you know, we, everything remains to be seen. 01:08:24.699 --> 01:08:29.779 So. Right. Yeah. I mean, I do appreciate you 01:08:29.779 --> 01:08:32.600 touching on that again. You guys have so much 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:34.659 more insight on that stuff than I do. I've been 01:08:34.659 --> 01:08:38.319 learning a lot over the last year about how things 01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.979 work here in Michigan, but there's a lot of stuff 01:08:41.979 --> 01:08:44.159 that's changing every day, so it's hard to keep 01:08:44.159 --> 01:08:49.880 up with. But it's been good talking to you guys. 01:08:49.939 --> 01:08:54.579 That puts us just over my hour. So if you have 01:08:54.579 --> 01:08:56.739 anything else to say, I guess now's the time 01:08:56.739 --> 01:08:59.779 to do it. I've blabbered on, you know, what... 01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:05.000 Craig, I'm sure, can add some insight here. I 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:08.380 appreciate you giving us the opportunity and 01:09:08.380 --> 01:09:11.880 hopefully getting some of the word out there 01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:14.220 on what's going on, not only who we are, but 01:09:14.220 --> 01:09:20.000 if you're involved in the ORV community, seek 01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.279 out the local grant sponsor and clubs in the 01:09:24.279 --> 01:09:26.800 area you like to frequent and get involved with 01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:30.449 them. most of them are 20 25 bucks for a family 01:09:30.449 --> 01:09:33.789 membership and it's a small price to pay for 01:09:33.789 --> 01:09:37.609 what they do and uh you know if nothing else 01:09:37.609 --> 01:09:40.689 you know at least get involved with a membership 01:09:40.689 --> 01:09:44.229 and if you so inclined and able to get involved 01:09:44.229 --> 01:09:47.170 with the trail maintenance trail development 01:09:47.170 --> 01:09:52.090 and that and just fyi right now um great lakes 01:09:52.090 --> 01:09:55.960 have got three proposals in for trail improvements 01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:00.380 and expand and and new routes and then uh and 01:10:00.380 --> 01:10:02.460 we're working on some other ones as well because 01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:06.140 somebody that like tom said the dnr doesn't do 01:10:06.140 --> 01:10:10.500 it it's the users that do it yep yeah if if we 01:10:10.500 --> 01:10:15.180 want a you know a new feature or new experience 01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:21.000 or new trail it is 100 up to the users to um 01:10:23.019 --> 01:10:29.079 initiate that process of you know uh designing 01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:33.960 or or uh building a trail and or getting the 01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.220 approval and the funding to build it um and and 01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:40.939 like craig said we we've got a we've got a couple 01:10:40.939 --> 01:10:44.899 of projects in the works um you know i'm i'm 01:10:44.899 --> 01:10:47.439 not going to not going to elaborate on them okay 01:10:48.090 --> 01:10:52.189 because i would say any uh hints on locations 01:10:52.189 --> 01:10:56.529 uh in we'll just say the saint helen area um 01:10:56.529 --> 01:11:03.069 okay but uh you know it's some nbr some really 01:11:03.069 --> 01:11:07.949 cool stuff yeah cool yeah so but it's it's the 01:11:07.949 --> 01:11:11.489 very early stages and and and everyone's got 01:11:11.489 --> 01:11:14.869 to understand the the dnr moves like molasses 01:11:14.869 --> 01:11:23.270 in january um It's painful sometimes. But, yeah. 01:11:23.449 --> 01:11:25.829 And the storm damage is probably going to cost 01:11:25.829 --> 01:11:28.750 us a year or two, but nonetheless. Easily. There's 01:11:28.750 --> 01:11:33.909 a great thing going on. And it bothers me that 01:11:33.909 --> 01:11:36.390 they shut trails down rather than asking help 01:11:36.390 --> 01:11:40.390 to clear them. Well, this is the thing. There 01:11:40.390 --> 01:11:46.680 was the emergency order put in place. in the 01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:51.100 in those northern counties and they're still 01:11:51.100 --> 01:11:58.079 just trying to get normal day -to -day life back 01:11:58.079 --> 01:12:05.779 on track the the recreation trails and i agree 01:12:05.779 --> 01:12:11.680 with them the recreation trails right now are 01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:18.840 you know come last you know right you know candidly 01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:22.119 i got pictures today from some of our members 01:12:22.119 --> 01:12:25.520 that were out scouting they're downright dangerous 01:12:25.520 --> 01:12:28.420 there's widow makers out there that even scare 01:12:28.420 --> 01:12:32.939 a guy like me i've been pretty sketchy situation 01:12:32.939 --> 01:12:36.899 yeah it's it's not just you know you know some 01:12:36.899 --> 01:12:40.319 sticks laying on the trail it's you know miles 01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:44.600 miles of trail just completely obliterated And 01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:49.899 like Craig said, you know, the dangers of, you 01:12:49.899 --> 01:12:53.119 know, the trees that are hung up in other trees 01:12:53.119 --> 01:13:00.359 and it's, they're, it would be irresponsible 01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:05.560 to have left the trails open right now. Right. 01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:10.439 Because, I mean, it, you know, we have a number 01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:14.470 of ORV routes up in that area that we. uh maintain 01:13:14.470 --> 01:13:17.109 and those are going to be challenging enough 01:13:17.109 --> 01:13:21.649 but you know friends of ours with cycle conservation 01:13:21.649 --> 01:13:27.369 club of michigan that maintain the bulk of the 01:13:27.369 --> 01:13:34.270 50 inch and 24 inch motorcycle trails they i 01:13:34.270 --> 01:13:36.550 i i honestly don't know how they're going to 01:13:36.550 --> 01:13:41.979 do it um because i've i've i've maintained 50 01:13:41.979 --> 01:13:45.300 inch trail before. And it's, it is slow going. 01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:50.140 I mean, basically, basically the way that those 01:13:50.140 --> 01:13:55.300 trails are right now, they may as well just leave 01:13:55.300 --> 01:13:59.600 their, their dirt bikes or quads at home because 01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:02.680 they're just gonna, they, they just have to walk 01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:06.779 that those entire, all of those miles of trail. 01:14:07.079 --> 01:14:12.319 And, you know, Cutting, you know, every few feet 01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:16.079 cutting trees. And there's no place to drag that 01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:18.579 stuff off like they normally do. They're literally 01:14:18.579 --> 01:14:25.020 trying to muster skid steers and small tractors 01:14:25.020 --> 01:14:28.979 with forks on them and things like that. It is 01:14:28.979 --> 01:14:34.800 tough. Now that said, the Leota area, the Cadillac 01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:38.819 area, the Lake County area, St. Helen, Ogema. 01:14:39.670 --> 01:14:43.510 Those areas were not hit, and the grant sponsors 01:14:43.510 --> 01:14:48.689 in those areas are stepping up and knowing that 01:14:48.689 --> 01:14:51.350 they are going to see and are seeing heavier 01:14:51.350 --> 01:14:54.270 traffic than normal. And they are, you know, 01:14:54.329 --> 01:14:56.729 they're volunteers out there that would dedicate 01:14:56.729 --> 01:15:00.770 a day or a day and a night a week. They're going 01:15:00.770 --> 01:15:04.489 two and three times a week now trying to make 01:15:04.489 --> 01:15:08.430 provisions for. you know the upcoming holiday 01:15:08.430 --> 01:15:11.770 weekends and that knowing that north you know 01:15:11.770 --> 01:15:13.789 further north people aren't going to be able 01:15:13.789 --> 01:15:16.909 to utilize that even if they want to and insist 01:15:16.909 --> 01:15:19.369 that nobody can stop them they're just not going 01:15:19.369 --> 01:15:24.930 to be usable yep great yeah we've we've got an 01:15:24.930 --> 01:15:27.010 event coming up in everett so i'm glad to see 01:15:27.010 --> 01:15:29.189 that they weren't hit and we got an effect coming 01:15:29.189 --> 01:15:32.090 up in cadillac so i'm glad they were hit yeah 01:15:32.090 --> 01:15:37.329 no i i was just in the uh you know um West of 01:15:37.329 --> 01:15:44.130 Higgins Lake, there's the West Higgins Lake ORV 01:15:44.130 --> 01:15:49.890 route and West Higgins Lake ORV trail. And from 01:15:49.890 --> 01:15:55.670 what I can tell, there's very, very minimal damage. 01:15:55.890 --> 01:16:00.409 I don't think there's anything in excess of what 01:16:00.409 --> 01:16:09.390 your normal winter... you know tree downage um 01:16:09.390 --> 01:16:13.609 you know there there's always on the on the 50 01:16:13.609 --> 01:16:16.989 -inch trails there's always a little bit of you 01:16:16.989 --> 01:16:20.369 know trees down here there every winter that's 01:16:20.369 --> 01:16:23.750 just comes with the territory but um from what 01:16:23.750 --> 01:16:29.069 i can tell very very minimal so um yeah pretty 01:16:29.069 --> 01:16:32.390 much if you draw a line from grayling to mayo 01:16:32.390 --> 01:16:38.039 and everything south of that it's 100 % clear 01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:45.439 and people can ride no problems. North of that, 01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:49.640 that is going to be a work in progress all summer 01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:54.260 long, I think. Honestly, seeing some of the damage 01:16:54.260 --> 01:16:56.560 I've seen, I could see it going into next year. 01:16:56.680 --> 01:17:00.579 It's possible, yeah. There's some stuff that, 01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:02.340 I mean, like you were saying, there's trails 01:17:02.340 --> 01:17:06.100 that just don't exist anymore. Yep. Yeah, and 01:17:06.100 --> 01:17:14.279 I need to have a call up the guys from Cycle 01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:16.220 Conservation Club and see if they've had any, 01:17:16.260 --> 01:17:20.899 you know, scouting reports for any of the trails 01:17:20.899 --> 01:17:24.060 up there for, you know, for the 50 -inch side 01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:27.640 of it. And, you know, and that's the thing, you 01:17:27.640 --> 01:17:31.539 know. They have scouted as late as today. the 01:17:31.539 --> 01:17:34.319 Mayo, the Atlanta, and the Indian River area. 01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:37.640 Just before this, I was on the phone with a few 01:17:37.640 --> 01:17:41.539 of them. Okay. And that's where Great Lakes is 01:17:41.539 --> 01:17:45.359 going to throw our help behind some of these 01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:50.399 other organizations. And yeah, not all of our 01:17:50.399 --> 01:17:57.460 members have 50 -inch quads or anything like 01:17:57.460 --> 01:18:01.300 that. But those that do, we're going to, you 01:18:01.300 --> 01:18:04.300 know try to you know if if they're so inclined 01:18:04.300 --> 01:18:07.119 get them in contact with you know these these 01:18:07.119 --> 01:18:11.039 other clubs and get the get them the help that 01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:14.880 they need because you know it's it's going to 01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:20.779 take a lot of work and there's no other way to 01:18:20.779 --> 01:18:23.920 put it it's pretty bad yeah so i'm looking at 01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:26.859 the map and it's just like the whole northeastern 01:18:26.859 --> 01:18:31.020 side of the state is just well lower peninsula 01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:34.119 yeah it's just blanketed in closed trails yep 01:18:34.119 --> 01:18:40.039 so yeah well all right i really appreciate you 01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:41.920 guys coming on thank you for the opportunity 01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:46.840 yeah i maybe in like a year we should get together 01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.199 again i'd like to hear some updates for sure 01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:52.680 you should well we'll uh so we'll have our uh 01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:57.039 our summer membership meeting that you know anyone's 01:18:57.039 --> 01:19:01.489 uh Welcome to it. And then in the fall, we will 01:19:01.489 --> 01:19:05.630 have our Adopt -A -Forest. I'd love to see you 01:19:05.630 --> 01:19:10.090 out there for that. And then Rocks and Valleys 01:19:10.090 --> 01:19:13.170 in the first weekend in December for our Toys 01:19:13.170 --> 01:19:17.149 for Tots drive. You'll probably see me there. 01:19:18.170 --> 01:19:24.109 I don't know that we have the date. nailed down 01:19:24.109 --> 01:19:27.250 just yet but uh for we do have the date nailed 01:19:27.250 --> 01:19:29.310 down but i don't remember it it's at the end 01:19:29.310 --> 01:19:31.689 of january we'll be doing a winter blast and 01:19:31.689 --> 01:19:37.569 that's a winter blast in uh in west branch um 01:19:37.569 --> 01:19:40.510 that's that's a ton of fun that is that is a 01:19:40.510 --> 01:19:44.630 really good time well that's definitely one i 01:19:44.630 --> 01:19:46.369 want to try and get to because that always looks 01:19:46.369 --> 01:19:49.989 like fun yeah so all right well thank you guys 01:19:50.810 --> 01:19:54.949 I'll catch you guys later. Take care. I hope 01:19:54.949 --> 01:19:59.850 you enjoyed that interview. Like I said, Tom's 01:19:59.850 --> 01:20:02.909 was an awesome interview. I had a lot of fun. 01:20:02.970 --> 01:20:06.050 I learned a lot about off -roading in Michigan 01:20:06.050 --> 01:20:08.409 and how it works and why we do it the way that 01:20:08.409 --> 01:20:13.989 we do. It's pretty cool. But I hope you didn't 01:20:13.989 --> 01:20:15.630 think you were getting out of here without getting 01:20:15.630 --> 01:20:18.489 to listen to some value for value music because 01:20:18.489 --> 01:20:22.319 I've got the Jetsons. uh, lined up and ready 01:20:22.319 --> 01:20:26.859 to go for you. I will have the, uh, a link to 01:20:26.859 --> 01:20:29.520 it so you can boost in the artist, uh, send him 01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:32.180 his sets. You know, he, it's a great song. This 01:20:32.180 --> 01:20:34.100 is one of my favorite value for value songs. 01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:37.119 And I'm glad that the guys decided to vote this 01:20:37.119 --> 01:20:41.000 one in as the winner for this week's end of episode 01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:42.939 outro music. I don't know. I don't know what 01:20:42.939 --> 01:20:45.340 we're going to call it yet, but all right. I 01:20:45.340 --> 01:20:47.380 hope you guys enjoyed the interview and have 01:20:47.380 --> 01:20:54.819 a great week. You talk about the future, but 01:20:54.819 --> 01:21:01.399 what do you see? Is it an ocean of color growing 01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:09.279 exponentially? What keeps me up through the nighttime? 01:21:09.819 --> 01:21:14.199 Keeps me dreaming through the day? Is that the 01:21:14.199 --> 01:21:20.869 goddess of wisdom is only a block away? I wanna 01:21:20.869 --> 01:22:01.789 fly by the number