Welcome to Botches Off -Road. Join us as we talk
about everything from gear reviews to trail stories,
tent camping to rock landing, and all things
to do with the outdoors. So today's topic, we're
talking about camp hacks slash overland hacks
slash getting around the tacks of the hobby,
if you will. Yeah, some overland cheat codes,
if you will. So I guess it's kind of my idea,
and I know we've kind of covered some of it here
and there, but I kind of wanted to make something
more pointed towards just this in general. I
think, and I'll probably start off here because
I'm going to talk about Shane and eyes just to
get him on here too. So we got to start. And
this is my favorite one from last year, is using
fire squares from, like, wood stoves. So you
can go to any tractor supply, family farm and
home, any of those farm stores that sell wood
stove supplies. And you can buy these little
fire squares, and they come in packs of, like,
300. And you can get it for, like, 15 bucks.
And they work great. I mean, it's way cheaper
than buying those cool Overland fire starters.
And they honestly start fires better and faster.
Oh, yeah. It's made out of, like, recycled dryer
lint and this and that. And I have a pack of
those that lasted me all summer, and I still
have, like, two sheets left. So I'm going to
buy some this year, and I should be good for
another year. So that worked really, really,
really well last year. Dude, that was a great
hack. Yeah. So I figured I would just share that
first and foremost before we got into some of
the other ones. My second one would probably
be, and we talked about this a little bit, but
like if you're just starting doing the Overland
thing and you kind of want to just get stuff.
you know, like your kitchenware and stuff like
that. The 50 cent, 85 cent plastic Walmart plates,
really super cheap and easy. Um, I'll leave it
at that. Like I said, we covered that a little
bit in their last, last episode, but I think
Alex uses them too. You can even get the ones
that are square with like little compartments
on each one. That's what we have. Yeah. And,
and they pretty much wipe clean like, and you
just throw them back in your drawer. I'm not
saying that I haven't like, dish scrubbed them
but you know when you're out camping sometimes
it's easier to just wipe wipe them clean and
move on oh i 100 have not dish scrubbed ours
in like ever uh we just wipe them clean and throw
them in uh if i if i i wouldn't be lying if i
said i did mine yearly but but uh yeah the other
one's kind of a this one's kind of a weird one
so you have to bear with me a little bit i actually
heard it on another podcast um And they were
talking about cold weather camping and quick
and easy ways to actually keep you warm. And
it's actually have a dedicated pee bottle. Alex
knows where this is going. And I'm telling you,
it's actually kind of an ingenious. You have
a dedicated... So I saw you post that on Overlanding
for the Poors. And I just got to say the scenario
that that person was posting about is either
made up for one or two. Someone's chain of command
is screwing them over very hard, which like to
a level that is not normal and could get them
in a lot of trouble. And three, if they're a
soldier that has to sleep in their car, we have
gear to stay warm in that environment. Yeah.
What? What? Wait, what did I post it off of?
Someone posted on Overlanding for the Poors that
they needed ways to stay warm in a truck because
their brother or something is a soldier and he
has to sleep in his car for so long. Oh, okay.
I was going to say that had nothing to do with
what I said as far as what to do. But I was just
thinking of cheap way. You pee in the bottle
and you put it near your feet and you have warm
liquid. And a lot of this is like if you're rooftop
tent camping anyway, a lot of the times when
it's cold or anything, you don't want to get
out of your tent just to go pee anyway. And if
you get thirsty, you have a quick drink. Yeah,
if you really have to Bear Grylls it out. Nature's
for Bear Grylls. There you go. And you pee in
it, you put it near your feet, and it's going
to keep you warm for that much longer. So that
was one. I know it's a little unorthodox, a little
out there. But for some of these guys, and this
was actually, what was it, the X Overland podcast
they were talking about when they were up near
the Arctic. or the top of the world in Alaska,
they were talking about how their feet would
get cold and how it kind of sent the rest of
the body to get cold. So they had a dedicated
pee bottle for that, like a Nalgene bottle. So
they said it kept their toes warm, which kind
of helped keep the rest of them warm. And I'm
like, you know what? It's kind of weird, kind
of ingenious. So, I mean, I'm not going to get
out of my rooftop tent every time I have to pee
either. So there's that one. Like I said, we'll
get the weird out of the way. I was about to
say, it sounds like they need better sleeping
bags slash sleeping pad that actually has a good
R raining value. X Overland has the best of anything
you can get. This is a massive company. So if
they're cold, it's probably because they just
got in their tents and their feet are cold or
something. They have the best of the best. So
if they're even talking about their feet being
cold, It's probably pretty fucking cold up there.
So I've got a... I don't know if mine's necessarily
unorthodox, but my biggest camp hack or overland
hack is look at surplus military gear. The military
has spent a lot of money on R &D and engineering
to build equipment meant for keeping soldiers
alive in really harsh conditions. And we can
take that and... You can buy a sleeping bag that
rivals some of the best sleeping bags out there
for like $120. Yeah. Yeah. They'll do definitely
good. I don't think they'll beat a straight -up
down sleeping bag, but I think they'll definitely
be like the best budget system that you could
get until you get up to that $600, $700, $800
zone with a down sleeping bag. Well, depending
on which one you get, they're warmer than a down
sleeping bag. like that i would love to test
that that green one i feel like that green mummy
bag to compare that green mummy bag that i slept
in uh for our big camping weekend that yeah that
one is a down military sleeping bag well there
you go yeah so it's down yep but um i don't know
i've and and this is not me going like i don't
believe you but this is me going like These companies
are making Arctic equipment for the coldest temperatures
in the world. And as many military guys as I've
talked to, I don't put too much credit into some
of the military equipment. You know, you got
to be picky and choosy. I would say that the
sleeping bag is an absolute banger. I mean, there's
guys that have survived Antarctica in a military
sleeping bag. Yeah. Also, the bigger question,
based off of Alex's story, usually they don't
use all their gear like they're supposed to.
Yeah, Mark taught me how to use my sleeping bag.
I didn't even know how it worked. That's the
best. Yeah. Well, there you go. So that's one
of them there with, gosh, we got from, what,
pee bottle to sleeping bag to plates. Hey, bounce
around. Shoot from the cuff. Yeah, so this one.
So this one was actually one of Alex's ideas
that he pointed out, but if you don't have a
fridge and you're overlanding, use plastic water
bottles to freeze or jugs to freeze and put them
in your cooler. That way, as they thaw, you still
get water, but to keep your cooler cold and you
don't have all that extra water swimming your
cardboard and any of your eggs sitting around
there. If you don't have a fridge and you're
trying to streamline that a little bit and your
cooler so that you're not buying ice every, you
know, so long, every day or so, it depends, I
guess, where you live, then that's definitely
a good one. Obviously, it helps to have a good
cooler. Yeah, have a good cooler if you're going
to do it. And if you go on Amazon, you can get
reusable, like, freezer or sandwich bags. Fill
those with water. They're kind of like a vinyl
plastic instead of just straight plastic. Fill
those with water and freeze them. Then you can
do the same thing, but it fits flat so you can
fit it between things and kind of line your cooler
with it. Mm -hmm. The next one is something that
I guess I kind of talked to them guys with, but
using dehydrated or precooked meals. You know,
we've kind of talked about this, getting our
own dehydrator at some point in the future and
trying to do that ourselves. But in the meantime...
A lot of these companies make some really good
dehydrated meals. I don't know if I can call
that a budget hack, though, because those are
definitely more expensive than cooking your own
food. They're cheaper than a meal at McDonald's,
so we come out of that. At least me and Sienna
are spending $30 or so at McDonald's for two
meals. You only spend $11 to $13 for those, and
they taste better, and they have zero lifespan.
You can hold them as long as you want, and that's
kind of the best part of that. But they're pricey.
But they have a longer shelf life. You don't
have to use them all at once at the same time.
Yeah, I just don't know if I... I mean, it's
a good hack. I just don't know if it's necessarily
a... Get around the overland tax hack. Well,
for me, I would consider that a hack. I buy a
lot of that stuff on the winters and stuff when
I'm not out there. So, you know, one meal or
two at a time. And then using it, it takes 15
minutes to usually make the most complicated
ones. It saves me plenty of time in the morning.
I don't have to worry about cleanup or anything.
You eat it right out of the bag. So, well, it's
like, based on what I'm seeing, it's about on
par with McDonald's prices. It's $13 .99 just
for a pack. With two servings? Yeah. Right, so
you have two servings at $13 .99. So it's half
the cost of McDonald's. Yeah, roughly. Depends
on how you eat it. I mean, yeah, if you're going
to eat the whole pack. Like, I will eat a whole
pack if I'm really hungry, like I was telling
you guys earlier, but Sienna only eats half.
Yeah. I mean, it's roughly half the calories
compared to McDonald's. Like, even that is a
lot less calories than McDonald's food. But technically,
one bag is giving you two servings. Yeah, I know.
So if you follow bag instructions, you're $7
a meal. You know, on... You know, if you're talking
about per serving. And then you have no shelf
life, basically. I mean, you're going to use
it, obviously, before then. So my next hack kind
of invalidates everything we're saying. Don't
listen to influencers. Do things yourself. Do
things yourself and find out what you need rather
than just getting something because someone told
you you should. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This one - I
can say all day that everybody should have a
Garmin in their truck, but in a real world scenario,
not everyone needs a Garmin in their truck. No.
No. No, I think to put a little asterisk on that,
maybe not go for the guys that are making $300
,000 a year to give you advice on your $60 ,000
a year weekend overlander. Well - Get up. I just
did my taxes, and I can promise you I make less
than $50 ,000 a year, so I might be someone to
listen to. Yeah, well, so, I mean, I guess go
based off of, you know, what you're making and
maybe comparatively to what the other guy is
making because you got people like us that are
more. budget -friendly, that are trying to get
the biggest bang for our buck, that might be
a little bit better advice for you than maybe
someone who's doing it professionally as a film
crew and has... And usually get a lot of their
stuff for free just for sponsors. Which, you
know, hey, that would be great, but we don't
live in that world. Sponsors are dirty. No sponsors.
Then we have to be all happy and go lucky. I
want to be able to tell sponsors their products
suck and they should go shove it. Yeah, if their
product does suck, yes. I'm not going to be covering
some random... What if we have some random air
compressor try to reach out to us from Amazon
or something like that? No, it was like air compressors,
lights, and something else. Yeah, headlight bulbs.
Yeah, they were trying to sponsor us. I mean,
they were real, apparently. I did a lot of research.
I reached out to the company and made sure, but...
The problem was that they were going to want
me to say good things about their product, and
honestly, I was probably going to run it through
the dirt. Exactly. Because that's the thing.
If you were to get sponsors, it would have to
be like, hey, you know that this is going to
happen. Maybe we give you a review before we
agree to a sponsorship. And if you pay attention
to how I rate gear or talk about gear, even a
good piece of gear, I might tell you why it sucks,
even if it's good. I think anybody reviewing
should do that, by the way, just for anybody
who's listening. Yeah, because I'll straight
up tell you, like, rooftop tents, they kind of
suck. Are they cool as hell, and do they work
for people? Yeah, but there are things that make
them suck. Yeah, like the price. Yeah, exactly,
the price. And then you have two sides of the
same coin, so, you know, I love them. I think
that they're... A good way to go. I do hate the
price, too. I'll be the first one to say that.
I just can't joke it out. Says the guy who plans
to put it on their trailer, so we'll see how
that changes your life. We'll see if I can put
it on the trailer. I kind of talked myself out
of that one, too. Yeah, he talks himself out
of a lot of stuff. We'll see. I look at price
tags, and I think... If I look at things and
want to build things with a no -money intention,
and then I start building it, I'm like, God,
this is expensive. Ah, screw that. Yeah. We'll
see. The dark side might still get you. I mean,
you got me on propane fire pits, so. Yeah. I
don't know if it's that dark. That's dark. It
doesn't matter. It's literally the opposite.
It's not like you're buying the $2 ,000 one.
It's literally the opposite of dark. It literally
makes light. Yeah. Well, you know, you don't
have to get the $2 ,000 tent. There are $600,
$800, $900 Temu tents or Facebook Marketplace
tents that you could get for cheaper. Kevin,
thank you so much. You just stepped me into my
next overland hack. Chinese junk is junk, but
Temu sells some Chinese junk that isn't total
junk and it's worth buying. It's a gamble. I
have a quick story on this real quick. I just
bought a vehicle vacuum that looked like in this
little Chinese girl's hands. It must have been
a child. It looked like a full -size vacuum,
maybe like a foot long. This thing came out like
this, like six inches long at the max. I'm like,
you son of a bitch. Remember that roll -up table
I bought that ended up being like a foot off
the ground? They literally had people in the
description, like in the pictures, sitting around
it in chairs like they were eating at it. And
then it got here, I set it up, and it's a foot
off the ground. You can't trust Temu. There are
literal chat AI images or GPT images of like
a camper, but like molded into three different
things. There's like a camper on a camper inside
of a truck. And they're like, hey, only 700 bucks.
I'm like, what are you selling? So you got to
be careful with Temu. I mean, did you see the
Temu chair I just bought that I sent to the group
chat? Yeah, I did. That thing's actually pretty
decent quality. I paid 20 bucks for it. It can
support up to like 400 pounds. Yeah, we'll see
about that. I think my favorite picture out of
Teemu so far is the one with the gazebo and the
guy. You can tell in the picture he's actually
talking to someone, but he's looking right at
the tent. It's horrible. Did you see a while
ago when I was looking at chairs and I was sending
the Teemu pictures and it was the same fat American
guy? Yeah. He got us. Yeah, Teemu is good. I
would also like to add, if you aren't. like scrounging
marketplace already, you should be. Marketplace,
you could find, if you're looking for a certain
piece of gear or even just overland, off -road
stuff in general, marketplace is like second
to none to one of the best places. That's where
I found my winch mount. And I'll remind you,
my winch mount is $800 from the manufacturer.
I stole it for $100 and literally took a flap
disc to it. repainted it and the guy had pretty
much all the bolts to it anyway so and he gave
me a light bar for free so yeah just so the listener
knows i definitely sit and watch marketplace
most of the recording time like i've been oh
yeah i've been browsing marketplace this entire
episode oh yeah that's what i that's like the
main thing i do i'll throw on like an overlanding
show on youtube on the tv and i'll browse marketplace
my wife will be like are you even watching this
i'm like yes i am ish I know what's going on.
Yeah. I forgot what I was going to say. Dang
it. Darn. That's all right. We'll move to the
next one real quick. And this one is going to
be kind of connected to the dehydrated or precooked
meals. But precut your vegetables before you
go out. If you're going to make like Philly cheesesteaks,
pre -cut your peppers, your onions, your stuff
like that. If you're going to make tacos, pre
-cut the lettuce and tomatoes. And then that
way when you're out there cooking, everything's
pretty much already done. You just need to do
the main protein and you have that stuff ready
for you on the side. Makes that a lot easier,
especially for cleanup and prep too. You already
got them. They're in little Ziploc bags. You
can put a spoon in it. Yep. And you're good to
go. So that's a quick little tip for cutting
down some of your kitchen time if you're trying
to. You know, mix tacos, you know, for me, I'm
doing it alone. So it'll turn an hour of cooking
into 30 minutes of cooking. You know, I don't
have any prep time with the vegetables or anything.
And then, of course, if you're running like a
cooler to where you're worried about perishables,
uh use your most perishable stuff first usually
um so like if you know you got stuff that's gonna
only only do well for a couple days or you're
worried about it going bad uh you you make the
meals out of that first and kind of towards the
end you go to that less perishable items um so
like for instance if i have uh bacon or something
like that if sometimes i take things from my
fridge like an open bag of bacon or something
and I'm like, hey, I've got to cook this up within
a certain amount of time, I'll cook the bacon
first because you also don't have to go to the
store every single time that you want to go out.
You can just grab a few things from your fridge,
grab a loaf of bread, and just go. So, yeah,
use your most perishable items first and kind
of work your way out from there. Let's see, another
good hack. See, I was going to say something
opposite. I was going to say that frozen veggies
are also good for keeping coolers cold. Would
they? I guess you're right. Let's say you're
having a bag of frozen veggies with every meal,
so you have to have a good cooler for this, obviously.
Preface this with don't buy cheap coolers. Yeah.
Like if you buy a cheap cooler, then you're going
to hate coolers and want a fridge. But if you
spend the money and get a good cooler, you're
probably going to be all right with the cooler
for quite a while. Um, but yeah, so if you do
like, let's say you're having every meal, you're
going to have a bag of frozen veggies. So you
have five, let's say you're going out for five
days. Well, you've got five bags of ice that
doesn't, uh, you know, it doesn't waste space.
No, no. The only downside to that is you have
them slowly thawing over that time, so you do
want to use them. Yep. That's the only downside
I can see to that is, you know, frozen veggies
are going to thaw, whether you have ice in there
or not, you know. You just should plan on eating
them that week or weekend. Exactly. Plan on having
them back. Use them more. Yep. Yeah. Use the
more perishable stuff first if it's going to
thaw out. Like I said, if you're going to be
- Maybe there are levels to it. I think five
days is the max I'd do the frozen veggie hack.
Because if a pack of veggies thaw two days before
you use them, it's not the end of the world.
As long as they stay cold. But if they thaw like
a week before you use them, then it kind of becomes
a problem. Yeah. Right. Yep. I have some from
Shane, and I guess I can plug in. These ones
are kind of long, so I'm going to go through
these. Have we touched any of them yet? No. DIY
your limb risers. They can be made a lot cheaper
for like $30 instead of buying them prefabbed.
I think that was an example. He's just saying
reverse engineer as much as possible. Yeah, right.
He is, yes. I was just kind of, like, skimming
as I was going. Let's see. Yeah. What does it
say? The lid on his trailer. Oh, okay. Yeah.
So, yeah, it's just DIYing as much as general.
Materials instead of $125 or $30 for a prefab
set. The lid on my trailer is made out of sheets
of aluminum and heavy hinges for a gate. Or my
cooking service mounts to the side of the trailer
and makes for a good platform on the tire. Yeah.
He's got fine companies, especially small startups
that need product testers. He used to be a product
tester for Nylite, which would send me new mounting
brackets or light pods to test, exchange for
reviews or critiques. It's usually pretty easy
to find a company that will, at minimum, sell
you test products at production cost. If you
do reviews or testing, that's not a bad one.
I've had a couple people reach out to me and
see if that was something I was willing to do.
Just so happened that those couple companies
were like Chinese mini engine makers that wanted
me to buy their mini V8 for like $1 ,000. I'm
like, yeah. I want them to send me a mini V8
because I want to build a little mini V8 for
my desk that can be a generator. It'd be sick.
Yeah, well, it was, yeah. It was a mini V8 about
a foot by a foot. Oh, my God. I'd be in love.
And they had little videos of it. It was so cool.
And I'm like, yeah, if you could send it to me
for, you know, I'll give you a product. They're
like, we're not sending it free. I'm like, I'm
not spending $1 ,000 for something I don't know
I'm not going to get. We're not on the same page
here. So I didn't end up going with that. When
I was kind of trying to get into RC stuff, I
wanted to find someone who would make me a mini
diesel to put in an RC car. Never found anyone.
Oh, yeah. How cool would it be? Just a little
diesel -powered RC car? That would be kind of
cool. What do you got, Mark? You got anything
cool? Nothing I can think of off the top of my
head. I mean, kind of covered most of my, what
I would say, like the DIY, like instead of doing
a RAM mount or whatever mount system a lot of
people do for their... instead of doing a ma
'am do yeah ma 'am thank you so like in mark's
case we used don't we'll fix it someday but right
now it's a piece of two by four that all the
stuff is mounted to that mounts it mounts above
the radio in the doubled in slot you really can't
tell it's a piece of two by four no no Welcome
to the wood life, Mark. Hey, I've got a piece
of wood that's reinforcing what used to be a
clock hole on my dash to make a tablet mount.
Oh, yeah. Hey, I've gotten rid of a lot of my
wood. Now I just have the wood shelves. So I'm
doing pretty good. The only problem with wood
is it's heavy. Yeah. That's it. I personally
like wood. I like things made out of wood. They
just tend to be heavy. Yeah, I think it doesn't
match with the look I'm trying to work with right
now. So that would be the only downside to wood.
I'm not saying I want to look overlandy, but
if the rest of my stuff is made out of either
plastic or metal. and is black or gray, the wood
just stands out like a sore thumb. Paint the
wood black, and then you can't tell. That is
the plan. If you use bed liner on the wood, then
it looks like a piece of metal. If I had more
time, I would have. I actually have spray -on
bed liner that I was going to use, but I was
like, I want to get this done, I want to get
this organized first, and then we'll worry about
pulling that out and doing that. So that will
probably be the way. Speaking of being the way,
I have found that Anderson connectors are like
the best hack. That's a good one. Alex turned
me on to that. Yeah. I mean, Alex turned me on
to that, and I will re -say this over for maybe
someone who hasn't listened to some of our previous
podcast episodes. I have an Anderson connector
right under my headlight on a piece of plastic
trim that we have wired from the battery. That
one's a baby Anderson connector. It is. It's
got a little flip up top to help protect it from
weather. And I use that not only to jumpstart
my truck, which I have done a couple times this
last week, but also to connect my air compressor.
So no more. I do have limb risers on my FJ, so
taking my limb risers off every time I want to
pop my hood's annoying. So no more doing that.
All I have to do is plug it in. I'm done. I'm
good to go. It has been a, not lifesaver, but
one of the best hacks for time. I don't have
to pop my hood just to put some clamps on my
battery anymore. So my air up time is that much
quicker too. So I have two sets of Anderson connectors
on my truck. So for anyone who doesn't know,
my battery is removed from the engine bay and
ran to my bed space or my cargo space. It currently
lives in a packout box mounted to my bed. And
I have a Anderson connector that connects to
the wires that run to the truck. And then I have
an Anderson connector that is meant for connecting
to like a air compressor or something. It used
to connect to an air compressor, but... As we
all know, I've been testing cheap compressors,
and I killed another one. But they're great.
If I need to take my battery out, it takes me
all of a minute because I just pull the handle
on the pack out, slide it out, unhook the Anderson
connector, my battery comes out in a box. Neat.
Oh, yeah. It's great. Anderson connectors are
a great, great way to do that. I think also if
anybody ends up getting red tops, they are much
smaller than your typical battery. I did not
know that going into it. I could have got a bigger
one. You can get bigger red tops too. Yeah. The
red top that I got that was rated for my truck
is actually, I have to kind of make a lift for
the battery a little bit, a little spacer because
it actually brings it down probably, I'd say
probably two inches. So, just a quick fact for
anybody who's interested in red tops. They're
short. Yeah. But it works good. You guys talk
about air compressors and interesting connectors.
There's a little DIY project I have in the back
of my head right now for a future project, but
I don't want you into details about that yet.
Oh, then why'd you bring it up? Oh, well, you
can't tease it. Now you have to get into it.
All right. What's this project? So, Alex shared
it previously, and we discovered it. It's pretty
much you can mount an ARB compressor into the
packout. Oh, yeah. I have an idea in mind for
one. It's not going to be the same packout box
he's using. And my only issue is that the tolerance
I got in the box is going to be a little small.
So, like I said, it's on the back burner to see
if it actually works or not. Not going to happen
before Leatherwood. You want to put it in the
half box, right? Yeah, the ammo can boxes. I
also want to see if that works because I'd just
put it right on top of my battery. It'd be awesome.
Yeah. I was going to say, aren't those like coolers
or something, like small coolers? There is a
small cooler too. Yep. I was wondering about
that. I think we talked about. Making the small
cooler a water chest, I thought, when we talked
previously. We had talked about the small cooler,
but the non -cooler version of the same packout
could store more water. That's right. So that's
probably the route I'd go. Because it fits like
three and a half gallons in about a similar size
to your Dometic. Yeah. I thought about it just
for the price, getting a second Dometic tank
just to switch from. Just to have back there,
I have the extra space. Thought about putting
one of those in there. So if I'm doing the big
project, the roll cage project in the back of
mine, I will probably mount my ARB to the MOLLE
panel. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you got to do tanks with
that too, aren't you? Or no? So... I love tanks,
but I've kind of given up on them just from a
space -saving spot. So I might do a single tank,
but I think that tanks would really extend the
life of a compressor because it gives it a nice
big cooling zone so nothing gets hot. I don't
have any science to back this up, right? Like,
this is just how I feel, not a scientific proven
thing. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I got another
tip. If you like a project like ARB compressors,
but you really don't want to pay the bill, always
do your research. You might find it for cheaper.
And from the same factory. I hate being the guy
that recommends Chinese stuff, but I am broke
as a joke. And a lot of times I don't have the
money for the expensive good product up front.
But I can get the cheap Chinese one and go through
two of them before the good product is paid for,
if that makes sense. I will only say to this,
one, I don't really care what country it comes
out of as long as it's made to quality. Yeah.
Two, to, I guess, back off of what you're saying,
if it takes... taking it out and replacing it
twice to meet the quality of one, is it worth
it? That'd be my question. If the price, it depends.
Like, say my winch, right? My winch isn't a hidden
winch. It sits right on the top of my bumper.
I'll run a cheaper winch because if my winch
fails, I just pull it out and put a new one in
and probably have spent the same amount as buying
one good winch that I would also replace in about
the same amount of time as I replace two. I think
our winches, which are kind of a good topic too,
I guess, not always buying cheaper gets you worse
quality. Yeah. There are plenty of five -star
reviews, plenty of people that have run these
cheaper winches, like the Badlands. Oh, the Badlands
is not a cheaper winch. No, Badlands is not that
cheap. Aren't they cheaper now? No, not really.
Yeah, they come from Harbor Freight, but that's
still a $650, $700 winch. I got a good deal on
mine then. Yeah. No, you did. And then the X
-Bowl winches are a knockoff of the Badlands
winch, and I think they're actually made in the
same place. They're pretty much identical depending
on which X -Bowl you get. I've got the 10 ,000
-pound one. I mean, I pulled a fricking FedEx
truck out of the ditch with it. Like it, it's
a bang solid product. Oh yeah. I got mine for
a pretty damn good deal then. Cause I think I
picked mine up for 300. Yeah. And it was a 12
,000 pound. That's why I didn't tell you that
you were buying something or that it was a waste
of money or anything, because at the price that
you paid is the same price as an Expo, which,
but it was a bad one. So it was worth it. Yeah.
And it goes back to by the time you would buy
a worn, you're paying for, what, four of those
winches by the time you get into the same quality,
or not quality, but same poundage or same specifications
as the worn winch? That being said, if your winch
mount requires you to take your entire bumper
off to replace the winch, It might be worth just
buying the better quality winch up front. Yeah,
if it's definitely hard to get into, I would
say, thankfully, it doesn't take crap for me
to get my stuff off. So it might be a little
bit better for me. But if you got like a brand
new Lexus and a hidden winch mount, it might
not be worth it. Like mine, literally, I just
take the four bolts out and lift the winch out.
There's nothing. There's nothing there. There's
no cover. It's just sitting on the front of my
truck. Yeah, I think I have to take a total of
like eight bolts out, but that still only takes
like 15 minutes, if that. I think mine's going
to be a little more tough to get to once I get
that bumper out. Mark's is not only going to
be tough to get to, he's going to put a cheap
winch in it. Yeah. It's better than no winch,
though, at the end of the day. There's things
that you don't want to skimp on. A winch, I'm
not saying you should necessarily skimp on a
winch, but do your research. There might be one
that's good for less. Oh, I understand. Do your
research. So that'd be like the X -Bowl. I know
the X -Bowls are good. I trust them. But for
the most part, when it comes to recovery gear,
don't buy the cheap stuff. Go out of your way
to get the good, expensive, high -quality recovery
gear. You know, if you buy an Expo winch or a
Badlands winch, I highly recommend getting like
a crawler off -road winch rope for it. It's less
likely to break. It's less likely to break down
over time. It's not going to, you know, the cheap
lines that come on the cheaper winches, when
they're wrapped tight, they kind of like melt
into each other. The crawler rope isn't going
to do that. You know, that's something you should
pay more for. That's not something you should
skimp on. your recovery straps like a uh what
do they call the yankum ropes or whatever don't
buy the cheapest one you can find go out of your
way to buy the good high quality product yeah
yeah i think i have like a mid mine's like the
middle ground and that was just so that i could
get a kinetic rope i think i have the me only
ones and that was kind of a middle ground rope
the thing A thing that we should preface this
is Mioli sponsors Mitten State Tours, which is
one of the groups that we're part of. They give
us a lot of discount codes, a lot of deals. So
we might run the cheaper product just because
they're helping our group out. Yep. Oh, shoot.
I did it just because of the price. Yeah. I mean,
it's just the discount code. I don't have any.
I would say this, too, just because we were just
talking shit about a sponsor, but we don't have
any, we, the Botches crew, don't have any loyalty
towards Mioly. No. Not even a little. That's
the preface on it. We use the discount code to
get a cheaper, yeah, to get cheaper gear, but
we have no loyalty. If it sucks, we'll tell you.
They gave us... So far, they haven't. They gave
us a flat tow rope about a year ago, and I'll
say we beat the piss out of that tow rope, and
it's still going. Oh, 100%. It is still going.
I'm not going to say they make the best product,
but I will say that so far, it has worked for
us. Oh, yeah, 100%. For the price point, yeah.
Yeah, definitely. I think I've only used my kinetic
strap once, and it got me out of my little jam.
A little Ford Ranger pulled me out with it. Sad
to say, but it got me out of my little jam really
quick, and that's the only time I've had to use
it, but I'm glad I had it. So at the end of the
day, it's... And I won't say this either. I wouldn't
say find the cheapest you can, obviously, but...
having something is better than nothing also
100 so doing your research 100 like i if i'm
on amazon which is the second most thing that
i'm scrolling around other than marketplace I
am checking all the five star reviews and then
I'm going down and checking all the one, two
and three star reviews to see because basically
four stars or five stars, they just are nitpicky.
So, so one, two and three star reviews are like
what I'm looking for. And if I see a bunch of
stuff that's saying the same thing, like a rope
snapped one use or. This product died after four
uses, and I'm seeing a bunch of that. That's
a good sign. Do your research on cheaper products.
I don't remember who the guy was, but there was
a guy who was making ... All he was doing for
a while was testing tow ropes and recovery ropes,
stuff like that, to see their breaking points.
I can't remember who it was. I know who you're
talking about. I thought it was something to
do with ... I think it's Matt McKenzie. Maybe.
Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, it is. Well, it
might not be yours, but I would check out Matt
McKenzie if you're looking at it. He's got a
Facebook where he does a lot of the testing for
kinetic strapping and stuff like that and why
you should use it this way instead of that way
and proper recovery techniques. Seems very...
Seems like he kind of knows what he's doing a
little bit. So maybe just a good reference to
go off of. All right, for another hack, stickers
are cheaper than paint. The first time. But by
the time that you've redone the stickers three
or four times, the paint would have been cheaper.
Stickers are cheaper, like, per sticker. And
that's the only reason I would do a sticker,
because I just put it on the paint like a Band
-Aid. And then as more Band -Aids are acquired,
you just keep adding them. If you do it right,
you can get an entire sticker pack for like $18,
right? And then you just cover your entire fender
with it. It's great. As long as you're not picky.
Yeah, you just can't be picky. I'm pretty picky
with my stickers. Me too. I literally bought
like six or seven hundred sticker sticker packs
and maybe put 80 total stickers on. Oh, yeah.
Yep. Man, you have leftovers. Oh, they're gone
now. This was two years ago. I have to take a
look. I like stickers. It's a weird thing, man.
Me and Sienna will go to these little shops along
the coast of the UP and stuff, and we're always
looking at, ooh, that's a badass sticker. You've
got to think about how many times I've had to
redo my sticker bomb, which I need to do it again
because I put a piece of vinyl over it and ruined
my beautiful sticker bomb. Yeah, I'm kind of
a sticker whore, man. I go into those little
shops that get all the tourists, and I'm like,
what do you got? What do you got for stickers?
It's like the first thing I go to. Since I'm
replacing my rear windows with gull wings, I'm
really sad that I'm losing all the stickers on
my back window. Heck yeah, dude. So now I got
to figure out where to get more and replace them.
And then you lose your giant vinyl one. Oh, my
botches vinyl? No, no, no. Well, that one too,
but the Forrest of America flag one. Oh, that's
been gone for like eight months. Oh, I didn't
realize you took it off then. Yeah, no, it had
like, I dragged it across the tree when we were
getting ready for third gen weekend last year,
and it peeled half the sticker off, so I just
finished it off. How did I not realize you took
that off? Dude, it's been gone for a long time.
I don't even think it was there. I don't even
think it was there when we went to Missouri.
You guys are like synced up swivel chairing right
now. You guys have been both like swivel chair
life, man. I got to get me a new swivel chair.
I got this one for free. This is my wonderful
office hack. You can find free chairs on the
side of the road, and sometimes they're still
good. This is just a random one that's in the
workhouse. I almost stole a recliner off the
side of the road on 120th because I was like,
hmm. They just put it out, too. I'm like, nah,
I'm not chancing it. There's just too much cushion.
That recliner, you could tell, was older, so
I'm just like the old man farting in it for 30
years. I'm like, I don't want to smoke farts.
You got to catch it before it rains. A leather
office chair I would grab off the side of the
road. I can't say I'd take a recliner, though
I have definitely taken couches. Oh, yeah. I
did take this computer desk that I actually have
my setup on from right before the school starts
on, I think, 120th. They were getting rid of
stuff from that big building. I don't know what
that building is. It was like old school storage
or something up there. It has a little roundabout
in it. Next time you pass it, you'll see it.
Before, oh wait, so coming towards Grant from.
Coming, like if I'm driving towards Grant. It
would be before the school on the left. Oh, that's
the bus garage. Yeah, but it wasn't the actual
garage itself. It looked like a kind of a house.
It's the bus garage storage right next to it.
I was going to say, isn't he talking about, like,
what to me looks like a retirement home, but
has, like, a giant drive -thru? Yeah, yeah. Oh,
yeah. No, that is totally someone's house. It's
a very expensive house. It's ugly as hell. No,
that's it. Yeah, that's it, though. Because they
put a bunch of stuff on the side of the road
last year or the year before, and this computer
desk is one of them. And I was like, sweet. And
then I went to go pick it up, and I'm like, yeah.
I had to go pick this thing up and I was like,
holy shit, it's like a hundred pounds. It's mostly
metal. I built my computer desk from some plywood
that I bought at Menards. And it is an eight
foot by six foot L. Like it is a massive desk.
It is. You could do a couple more computers there
if you wanted to. There was a time. There was
a time not too long ago that I had eight computers
on this desk at one time. Yep. But, hey, see,
you're getting Overland tips and you're getting
at -home tips for being cheap like we are. So
now, yeah. Monitor stands make good TV mounts
for inside of vans if we want to talk van life.
I thought about doing van life a while ago. I
was helping my buddy Josh build out a van before
he went back home to Indiana. It was pretty fun.
We built him a pretty cool bed platform. We were
working on insulating it and building his desk
space when he went down there. Man. You know
what? Back to our finding shit for cheap. Facebook
Marketplace is where I found my drawer slide
or my fridge slide for $50 instead of $200. For
$50 more, if I could find a second slide, I would
probably have a second slide so that I could
have my equipment and drawers mounted on that
to pull from, by the way. That was super cheap.
Might be good for anybody who's thinking about
it. Having some kind of pull -out drawer system
or mount system for it. Those were all over.
You get to, like, towards the end of the year
and all these people that were like, oh, this
was fun camping and doing my little overland
thing. That's, like, the best thing for Marketplace
is you get the subdivision overlanders, the ones
that do it for, like, a summer. And then they're
like, camping isn't my thing. I think we're going
to step up to an RV. And then you're like, you
get all their shit for cheap. Right now, there
are a bunch of these portable battery stations
for super cheap right now. Oh. I keep looking
at them. Another hack is to join the Overlanding
for the Poors Facebook group. Yeah. It's mostly
shit posting, but every once in a while, someone
posts something pretty sick. Oh, yeah? Yeah.
Or you get to see other people's builds. I mean,
if you want some hacks too, this is like, I guess
an obvious one, but also go to meets, like go
to like rigs and coffee, meet up with other people
that do the same thing you do. Because if you're
looking for hacks, there's not that the people
are hacks, but they have cheap ways of doing
things. There are other like -minded people like
you in your areas, more so in places other than
Michigan. Like, we do our rigs at coffee, and
it's a good time to sit there, talk to people,
see what they're set up as. We don't have a lot
of, like, high -dollar guys there. A couple of
them. What are you talking about? A couple of
the bougie ones. There are so many high -dollar
guys at our rigs and coffee. There's a couple
of bougie ones. And then you have, like, us and
the rest of the, like, Lexus gang. You were parked
next to a fully built -out F -350 Tremor. I'm
just saying there's a couple. I'm not saying
that our whole... If you put in how many people
were in our parking lot, there were a lot of
Jeeps, there were Toyotas and Lexus, but if you
take away the people that sponsor it, then there
really is only a couple of the high -dollar groups.
There's a lot of them. There's a lot more in
your eyes, Gavin. There's a lot of them. I don't
know. I don't think that there is. To be honest,
I would say Derek has higher value items than
his. You say he does? No. I wouldn't say so.
Derek Becker. Lexus Derek? Oh, Lexus Derek. Yeah.
I'm not saying either of them. I mean, I'd say
Derek Becker doesn't count because he kind of
sponsors them, but all his stuff has to be there.
The other guy owns a freaking off -road shop,
so he kind of has to have the setup. I mean,
you got Zeke that's got the built -out 4Runner,
but he doesn't really ever come around. All right,
I'm looking through pictures. You have the Tremor.
I see a fully built -out Tacoma in the very first
picture. Two more fully built, or not fully built
out, but brand new Trailhunters. I see a row
of Jeeps, all of which are pretty well built.
There's a lot of high -dollar people, dude. I
guess that's not my version of high dollar then
because like my high dollar would be the closer
to $100 ,000 plus. That's like my high dollar.
A lot of these - When you're running a Tremor
with a full LU cab setup, full solar, full everything
- This Tacoma? Okay, yep. This Tacoma built out,
I bet you that's 100 grand. Yeah. I guess, yeah,
but that's only like two, three, four out of,
like I don't - Any of the Jeeps I'm not putting
in that range. How much is the new Trailhunters?
There are definitely a lot of Jeeps that go to
Riggs & Coffey that are close to that range.
A lot of them. I would only put like, I don't
think I would include that at all. But how much
is the new Trailhunters? We had two brand new
Trailhunters there. Yeah. Oh, I've seen those.
Those are fine. There are Jeeps that are built
out that go to Riggs & Coffey that are well over
$100 ,000. I don't know. Maybe we're going to
have to point them out next time and count them
out because I don't think that a lot of them
are. I think a lot of them are $60 ,000 to start,
and then they've got $40 ,000 in upgrades. Yeah.
Well, if we're counting all brand -new prices
of vehicles from the start, I guess that's hard
to argue with how much money you're spending
on them. But there's a lot of basically brand
-new Jeeps there. There's a lot of Jeeps that
are only a year or two years old. I guess I'm
looking at the upgrades versus the price, the
MSRP of the vehicle. Okay, well, that's different.
Jesus Christ, I shouldn't have to switch my story
every week. You've got to look at the MSRP of
the vehicle if you're talking high -dollar builds.
Yeah. No, no. When the build comes, if I saw
a 93 4Runner, but it had an LU cab pop -up tent,
fully plumbed systems, double, you know, had
all the bells and whistles, that would be a high
-dollar unit. So then you're talking about Lexus
Derrick then. At that point, you're talking about
all the stuff he's put into it. Lexus Derrick
hasn't put up nearly as much money. He doesn't
have $60 ,000 in upgrades. Well, no, not upgrades,
but all Victory 4x4 stuff, every inch. That's
a lot of money, man. I would not consider that.
And, you know, maybe I am the one that's not
looking at it right. His massive tent, rooftop
tent. I mean, he told us the price. It wasn't
really that crazy. No, but the actual price of
it is like $8 ,000. Yeah. Yeah, but he didn't
get it for that. No. Because he got sponsored.
I mean, I don't know. Oh, God, by Mioli? No,
by CVT. Oh, well, that I don't know anything
about. I didn't know he was actually sponsored
by CVT, but he is the premier Michigan's overland
influencer, so it's only to be expected. I guess
what I'm talking about is when I think of high
-dollar build, I'm not thinking of the MSRP of
the vehicle because... If you go off the MSRP
of any vehicle brand new, it's kind of moot to
me, so I'm not really going off of that. If I'm
going off MSRP, I'm talking a vehicle that's
a year to two years old, and we have a lot of
those. Yeah, I could say that. Yeah, you have
a lot of high -priced vehicles. And a lot of
those high -priced vehicles have pretty high
-priced builds on top of them. Yeah. So I guess,
yeah, we have two different definitions of that.
My definition of a high -dollar build would be
all the upgrades that you have combined. How
much have they purchased out of overland tax,
if you will? If I see a 250 Tremor with the full
alley cab setup, he had fully plumbed water,
solar, he had the ARB, he had all that. You're
looking at almost the MSRP of other vehicles
in that same lot. And that's kind of what I'm
looking at. I mean, that's not necessarily. The
price of upgrades getting. The radio chatter,
guys, that's a high quality. That's a high price
build. I don't know if you've seen their truck.
Well, I guess. No, I don't think I've seen their
build. That is very much so a high dollar build.
That thing is sick. Which, what is it? Colorado?
Yeah. I think it's a Colorado, yeah. Is it a
Colorado? And it's got, like... Yeah, I don't
know. I'm just... Yeah. I mean, like, I wouldn't
consider Lexus Derek as a high -priced build
guy. I mean, he doesn't have... I don't either.
But what about, like... What about JD? That's
a high -dollar build. Yeah. Absolutely. I think
she's got a lot of money in that. Even... Mitch
McPherson out of Traverse got a very similar
Tacoma build. But, yeah, they have the full frickin'
setup on there. That's kind of what I'm looking
at is, like, when you start breaking down the
price of upgrades. He's talking about the true
overlanders is what he's referring to. I'm talking
about the price of upgrades. I know. But the
vehicles you're talking about now, now I realize
what you're referring to is a true overlay and
build. This is your stereotypical overlay and
build. Okay. I just want you to watch this video
of the radio chatter guys, Rick, because it is
sick. Like, that is... Yeah, I don't consider
the typical Jeeps that are sitting over there
that are built for off -road. Yeah. I'll be the
first one. Dude, a lot of that. The actual off
-road building of a vehicle is more expensive
than the overland part. Oh, 100%. That is true.
A true off -road build is more expensive than
the overland. Oh, I mean, when it comes to suspension
and stuff, but when I'm coming to the activity
of it, I'm not thinking of. What? I'm trying
to look at this video at the same time now. Where
are they? Oh, fuck. I sent the wrong one. I sent
the wrong one. I was like, what is going on here?
Yeah, they're going down the line. Give me a
second. No, but, like, you go out to Sand Lake.
Yeah, you were at Sand Lake there, Gavin. Those
are a lot of high -dollar bills, and they're
just off -road toys. Okay, so I did. Oh, yeah,
yeah. I'm not, yeah. I'm definitely not talking
off -road toys. I'm talking built for overlanding,
able to. able to do the overlanding thing i did
send the right one but it's because i was looking
at the thumbnail the thumbnail for this video
has their truck in it that sucks i wonder how
long it is till we get there oh i just got there
oh yeah they they have a fucking crazy yeah they
got a nice setup there that is a high dollar
build that thing is sick that's see that's That's
what I would consider. They have the Alucab,
full drawer setup, fridge, solar. Including the
price of the truck that they bought brand new,
they're probably just scratching the $100 ,000
mark with that build. Yeah, just barely. Now,
if you fully built out a Cybertruck, then yeah,
that's a high dollar bill right there of itself.
Which we have those too. At Rigs and Coffee.
Oh, not Cybertrucks, but Rivian. Rivians. I haven't
seen the Rivian, but the Rivians are badass.
Dude, the guy that drives the Rivian is one of
the coolest people too. He's fucking cool. I'd
probably... I should reach out to him and see
if he wants to do an episode with us. Yeah. It'd
be cool to see his pros and cons. Talk about
that a little bit. Well, not just his rig, but
him and one of my friend's dads started a, like,
helping men with mental health type organization.
Oh, yeah. By using trails. So I'd like. I've
kind of talked to Dr. Riolini a little bit about
him coming on, but I think the guy that drives
the Rivian might be a better fit for us. Dr.
Riolini's a great guy, but I think the guy with
the Rivian fits our vibe a little better. Hmm.
Now, you want to talk high dollar bells. What
was the one that we saw at mail? Oh, the - Hey,
do you have it belled yet? Yeah, the – oh, my
God. It's the one that's based off the old Land
Rover. Yeah. It's – the guy that drives it is
one of the founders of Overland America. Yeah.
Robbie Bryant. It's a – oh, my God. The Enos
or whatever? Oh, Enos Grenadier. Yeah, the Grenadier.
Thank you. That's a high -dollar build. Yes.
But talking to Robbie, you'd never guess that
he made that kind of money. He's such a down
-to -earth guy. Yes. A lot of those guys, you
find a lot of them that make that kind of money
that are really down -to -earth. I've got his
business card right here because I'm supposed
to call him to set up an interview, and I keep
forgetting to do it. Probably should reach out
to him. Robbie's an awesome dude. I'm hoping
that when we go down to Benji's event this fall
that Benji, Benji, listen to this episode and
definitely do the Thanksgiving dinner event.
We want it. Yes. All right. Since I know Benji
listens to us like once a week or so, hopefully
this is the episode he listens to. Yeah. But
I'm hoping to run into Robbie again when we go
down there because he's probably my favorite
person we talked to that whole weekend. Yeah.
Other than, of course, Benji. Benji. Benji was
all over the place that whole weekend. Oh, he
had lots to do. We barely got to talk to Benji.
I'm sure he had plenty of things to do. I mean,
we sat around the fire with him for a while.
I know you don't really follow a lot of the mainstream
guys, but did you see Independence Overland's
new Trailhunter build? Nope. No? Oh, there you
go. There you want to talk about high -dollar
builds. They took the whole bed off of the Trailhunter
and put the whole Alucab box on them. Like the
Australian Ute. Dude, I want to build an Australian
ute -style truck. Oh, yeah, that'd be cool. I
was trying to get Mark to do it, but then he's
like, it's so much money, and I'm like, God damn
it, you're right. It is, yeah. But hey, man,
you could build it. Build it yourself. Do it
out of plywood. If I buy that truck that I keep
saying I might buy, maybe we'll just do it with
that. Then it could be a fast. Ute style. After
all that wood? I don't know. We were just talking
about how heavy wood is. We'll see. I would not
do it out of wood. It would be aluminum. No,
he wouldn't do it out of wood. I mean, we got
my brother to weld up stuff. That would be a
high dollar build. Yes. With a removable cartridge
and a Ute style bed. and on that platform, that
would be a high -dollar build. I agree. I think
by the time that you got that done and it fully
built out, I would agree. Yeah, that'd be...
Like I said, though, I'm just kind of looking
at the upgrades and the cost upgrades, but yes,
I was looking at it from a very Overland perspective,
from being able to do it and how well and the
cost of... Because I guess I don't look at the
Silver Lake Jeeps or anything like that. I fully
understand and agree that those are high -dollar
builds, the off -road running gear and everything
like that. But I guess I'm looking more of like
if a guy's switched out his bed and threw an
LE cab on it and then has spent $10 ,000 -some
on small upgrades and that was just a swish of
the wrist for him. Kind of looking more at that
as far as the general overlanding group thing
goes. But instead of, like, I would never call
anything I would do a high dollar. Like, it doesn't
matter after however long I do it, I would never
call that a high dollar. You know what I mean?
I can't because I don't think. It almost doesn't
matter what you do to a third -gen 4Runner. I
can't consider it a high -dollar build. I don't
know. Benji's is pretty much from the bottom
up brand new, and yours is getting there pretty
much from the bottom up brand new. I think if
you fully had yours built out and then... But
I can't... I mean, if we're talking Overland
style, yeah, you'd have to spend some money.
I can't consider it... a high dollar build it
just the third gen isn't a high dollar build
vehicle the closest so that one that uh that
derrick becker had for sale i don't know if he
still does that's the closest to a high dollar
third gen i've ever seen that one with long travel
icon and ads shocks and that's something you
can kind of do supercharged But, of course, you're
talking about performance upgrades. He's talking
more of the Overland upgrades. Yeah. I mean,
if you were to package it, maybe. But there's
those, God, I forget the name of them. Whereas
they took the Toyota. For me, a vehicle's off
-road capabilities is what I look at before the
Overland side. Because at heart, I'm more of
an off -roader than an Overlander. Right, and
I think I'm more of an overlander than an off
-roader because I would rather see the destinations.
I would rather not rock crawl on the way there
for the whole time. Oh, I want those. I want
to see the destinations after I rock crawled
there. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the difference
to me is I don't need rock crawling to enjoy
it. That's not necessarily my cup of tea, but
if there is some on the way, if there's some
fun like that, some off -camber, some ruts, some
river crossings, yeah, hell yeah. But I don't
want it to be the basis of my trip. Have you
seen the Four Days in Hell videos? Oh, yeah.
That's my kind of wheeling. Yeah, that is not
my kind of wheeling. It's so fun to watch. It's
cool as hell. And it's, like I said, it's a lot
of fun to watch, but that's not my type. I want
to get to a spot. I want to find a great camp
spot. I want to camp it. I also want it to be
hard to get to and not a lot of people being
able to get to it. I want to conquer things that
are very hard to conquer so that when I get to
the spot, there is nobody else there, period.
Except hikers. The only thing, yeah, because
there's an actual bypass road to get through
all of that just to get to the top. That's how
it's becoming nowadays. Maybe an alpaca, a guy
on alpaca, I'd be okay with seeing that. And
then I'd get to go pet the alpaca, like alpacas
are cute. It's just like, for me, if you want
to invade my campsite, bring a cute dog with
you, and I'll get over it quickly. For me, and
this is just my preference, but if you can hike
faster, if you can hike up the obstacles faster
than you could crawl them, then, yeah, that's
not for me. Oh, that's my thing. If I can. That's
it. That's what I want. Yeah, and that's exactly.
Like, that's just like, because the whole point
is for me to get to that destination, to a destination.
So if you can walk over them faster than you
can crawl them, that's not my cup of tea. Oh,
that's 100 % my thing. That's not the point for
it for me. Yeah. And that's cool. I like having
two sides of that coin where I'm more of the
get to the destination, but I don't want the
rock crawling on the way there. So that's pretty
cool. I'm cool with that. I can accept that.
That's why. If you look at our two builds, you
can see that, too, because mine is like most
of my money has gone under the frame and down
on my truck, whereas most of your money is frame
and up. Well, I haven't needed to replace anything
frame and below either. I've replaced a lot of
stuff. I've replaced a lot of stuff I didn't
need to replace. Yeah, it was like while you
were there because you had stuff apart. But even
if I had it, that's where I would have put my
money first. I mean, I haven't needed any of
that. And even basic maintenance, it hasn't really
come to that. When I look at how I can spend
my money, nine times out of ten, my money goes
towards something performance over something
campy. Well, that's the thing. I'm not trying
to do the same thing as you. Which is where that
would come into play. Like, I'm trying to camp
more than I'm trying to crawl. I'm just saying,
you can look at our two builds, and it's very
apparent who's which side. Oh, yeah, yeah. And
that's why, like, for me, the packouts are basically
a necessity because you can get away with, like,
those plastic drawers. I would destroy those
on some of the obstacles I do. But you can get
away with it because you're not doing the same
stuff. That's where I need something like a packout
that... can put up with getting beat on yeah
yeah i can i mean pretty much agree with that
i mean i i'm not hitting anything i mean i'm
not doing anything so twisty and off camber when
i'm doing my own thing anyway that yeah my drawers
are gonna go crazy of course i say that they're
pretty i say that but we live in michigan so
i do that like what once a year once a year yeah
and that's for me too is like there's nothing
there's nothing crazy in michigan either so it's
like the the need for it isn't there for me either
i have the i have to search far and few like
far and wide to find the hardest trails in michigan
oh yeah for sure no and for me and especially
with my family my wife does not enjoy crawling
Mine just doesn't go with me if I'm doing that
kind of stuff. Yeah. And my wife wants to go
out. Oh, mine too, but I just tell her, this
trip isn't one for you. And then she's like,
oh, okay, I don't want to go then. And for me,
it doesn't matter. I want my wife there either.
But I'm also doing, you know, I don't know. It's
hard to explain, I guess. She might get upset
with me when we go to Leatherwood because I'm
going to do harder trails. And she's going to
be like, I don't want to be on her side. And
I'm going to be like, get over it. Yeah. Sienna
was just kind of like, oh, oh, oh. When we hit
that one run, she's like, hey, I can touch the
ground here. And I'm like, yeah. We're in a bit
of a situation here. I have driven. uh skidder
hill all the way one time that was in the crawler
and caitlin would not go with us on that trip
yeah and i can't blame her she won't do skidder
with me anyway because she doesn't like that
there's more ground looking at her than sky right
yeah i don't mind doing like sand hills and stuff
i don't Like, I've gotten over that fear a little
bit with, you know, doing the high dunes or whatever.
So I'm cool with that. It's just I also don't
want to put my rig at any unneeded stress that's
going to cause downtime. So that's, like I said,
and that's exactly what Alex is trying to do
is put stress on his rig. Once I learn how it
breaks, that's how I make it stronger. Exactly.
Yes. And I don't want it to break because I want
to still go camping the weekend after. Oh, I'll
still go camping. And have money to do it. I
have a yard. I just camp in my yard. Yeah, I
know, but I actually want to see places. You're
very productive. Have you seen how pretty my
field is on a sunset? Like, it's really pretty.
It smells great. As long as the wind is blowing
to the south or the north, we're fine. It's when
we get a south blowing wind that you don't really
want to be here anymore. No. No. I'm done. No.
Well, on that note, it's been fun. We talked
about some overland hacks and stuff. We even
talked a little bit more about... how we are
two sides of a coin, maybe a little separated
by the hobbies that we like, but it's kind of
a good thing. I'm heads, you're tails. That's
fine. I like tails. Yeah, I'm good with that.
And we put a magnet on your side so that it always
lands on heads. Welcome to the dark side. As
Alex goes out camping, Instead of crawling more
and more, he's going to start moving to my side
more and more. As long as it doesn't interfere
with my crawling. That's why a rooftop tent might
not be my thing. Mark my words. As long as it
can go on the trailer. Maybe it can go on the
trailer. They sure look cool. I missed out. As
long as it stays a base tent. It must be rooftop
tents. All right. We'll catch you guys later.
Later. Come back home I'm singing I'll always
come back home Now and forever I feel AIDS in
my bones I lost track of the time home is more
than just a destination it's a feeling something
i had so confused with focusing solely on making
a living i think the saddest thing is when you
look in the mirror and the person you see is
a villain i'm blaming all the anger inside of
my soul my character slowly been switching like
what was i missing i knew that money would not
make me whole i was trying to live fast cause
my black heart healing too slow you know the
phrase that without the rain it isn't a flower
that ever will grow but over the years collecting
my tears i think it's too much i'm about to explode
Yeah, punch a couple tickets for the ride Dreams
always blind you to the lies Searching for a
place I couldn't find Bloodshot eyes, what a
shame Told you all this pleasure lead to pain
Lost inside the valley of the shadow of death
Trying to find another way, I'm good At least
I keep telling myself I don't need no one for
no help Just follow this north star till I'm
home And everything's back how it felt Back when
I'd sing you these rap songs Till we both fell
asleep on the couch Was home and it wasn't a
doubt I'm saying Yeah, I'll always come back,
but shit just feel different, it's not quite
the same I know it's my fault, the dream I was
chasing has drove me insane Like, I've been trying
to focus more on the present instead of the things
in my brain But everything's easier said than
done, well you're not the person who's going
through pain Won't change, but I try, people
that I love switching sides Maybe I'm not cut
up for this life, crosses on my heart, hope to
die I'm almost turning pages, letting go, sometimes
true recovery is slow I keep fighting battles
from within, I think where it's leading me is
home, I know I know, I just know Windows down,
it's almost 20 below The cigarette is going straight
to my soul I pour up some liquor, it's making
me sicker But I got some shit that's caught inside
my throat So bottled up with me and stuck on
my own Paranoia of somebody who's broke Stealing
over all the words of that Yeah, yeah Deep breaths,
sweating in my palms I can hear the chaos when
it's calm As if every day is just a song I knew
my direction had to change Something that I never
could explain Six string playing on repeat Only
thing that's ever kept me sane I feel aches in
my bones I lost track of the time a few drinks
for my soul If you listened all the way to the
end, please let us know on our Facebook group
or Boost In or something. Let us know what you
think about getting new music at the end of every
episode the way that I did with this one. If
you like the song, please boost the artist. You
can go to wavelake .com. I've got a link in the
show notes telling you a link to this song so
you can boost him there. um ollie's he's great
it's great song it really kind of moved me so
uh yeah i hope you guys have a great rest of
your week