Welcome to Botches Off -Road. Join us as we talk
about everything from gear reviews to trail stories,
tank camping to rock landing, and all things
to do with the outdoors. Today is one of the
good old weekend recaps. Yep. It was a pretty
eventful weekend, I would say. Me, Mark, and
our siblings decided to do some tent testing
in my front yard. Friday night, we set up all
of our tents and put them in front of the house
so that the wind was blocked by the house. And
then it was really windy, like 35 -mile -an -hour
sustaining winds with gusts up to 50 -something.
Yep. Well, putting them in front of the house,
and then we had all the cars parked in a line
as like an alternate wind block, and it worked
great. It did. It really did. Until four in the
morning when the wind shifted and started coming
out of the northwest and just blasted our tents.
Yeah. But we stuck it out. I woke up with my
sleeping bag frozen to my cot. I forgot about
it. You got it worse than me. I don't know. Both
nights, it was just the bottom of the feet of
the sleeping bags that had a little bit of frost
on it. That was it. I think the problem is that
for a Saturday morning, I didn't flip my, uh,
sleeping bag over to let it dry. I just left
it in there. Yep. Definitely did. Whereas you
would flip yours over. Yeah. So, I mean, it,
uh, it worked. The sleeping bags were warm. The
tents were, they all handled the winds. Yep.
Um, Saturday night was much, Palmer. We were
actually able to have a fire Saturday. Oh, yeah.
I enjoyed that fire Saturday night. We've decided
to... Did someone try and say something? Oh,
I was just going to say that windstorm reminded
me of the Labor Day windstorm that we had when
we were up in UP with the MSD group. We did that
Labor Day trip right on the coast of Lake Superior.
The first couple days were great. and that last
day it was like 45 mile an hour winds and 55
mile an hour gusts off the coast and we had parked
everything just like you guys were said we'll
make made a line of vehicles put down like uh
one of the other guys he had a kayak we put it
under his truck because the he had a little bit
of a lift help with the breeze And we only lasted
a couple hours that next morning. We tried to
make hot dogs for breakfast. Breakfast last lunch.
And sand. We were all getting sandblasted. We
looked down in the pan and it's full of sand.
We're like, yeah. Alright, it's time to move.
Thankfully, it wasn't as cold as it probably
was for you guys. Was that the Paradise trip?
Yeah. Yeah, up there in that area. I'm debating
about doing it this year. That's why I was wondering.
It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I can't
because that's in September, right? Yes. Yeah,
so I've got to leave time for our botches yearly
that month. We're doing botches yearly in September.
Yeah. You can only do like a couple days, like
just take the weekends. It's only like a four
-day thing. I think you also have to stay around
for turkeys because of the fireworks. I can only
take weekends. So I only can do like one weekend
a month that I'm going to be gone the whole time.
So the weekend that I'm choosing is botches yearly,
not that one. Man, that's a bummer. It's a lot
of fun, though. Wish you could be there. Maybe
in a couple years when we don't have botches
yearly in September, which we're only doing it
in September because Shane will be back in September.
Yep. Right. So probably next year, I'll probably
do it that month. I did not turn my ringer off.
It's a good thing. We didn't hear it. That's
all right. So you guys did your tent camping.
Did you guys work on any trucks? We briefly worked
on mine. We did the alignment on yours. Yeah.
Oh, we finished my nav setup. Yeah. That we did.
We did do that. Yep. But the big thing was the
trailer. Oh, yeah. The big thing was the trailer.
It was a very productive weekend for the trailer.
The trailer is now completely decked. It is now
completely wired, although the plug that we got
from Amazon is not good. The left blinker and
the running lights don't work on the plug from
Amazon. Yeah. So I got to cut that off and get
a new plug for it. Damn Amazon. But it is completely
decked. It is completely wired. It even has its
own battery and the wireless switch to control
the chase light. Yeah. So it's got a six -button
wireless switch panel that you bring into your
vehicle when you're towing it. Yep. And that
six -button switch panel will control all of
the lights on the trailer. So whoever's towing
it, rather than having to run a separate plug
for the light controls, you just grab the switch
and go. Yep. Yep. Because we originally talked
about where it was going to run off the vehicle,
but... This was a better idea. I am tossing around
the idea of doing a Anderson connector on the
back so we can hook up better battery charging
power than what is coming off the seven way.
But for the most part, I think it's all done
the way it is. And it looks fucking sick. Every
morning I walk out and look at it down by the
shed and I'm like, we built that. Hell yeah.
Yeah. Anderson Connector is the way to go, man.
I had to jump my truck because I left all my
shit on on accident at work. That's not a bad
idea either. I had Anderson Connector with the
jumpers that you guys made for whenever you guys
had to jump Mark's truck or whatever. And just
put clamp on clamp, jumped my truck real quick,
and hopped in and left. I was like, yeah, okay,
this works. This is nice. I need to get an Anderson
connector that runs out of my truck. Right now
I have them, but they're all, you have to dig
back to them because they're in the back because
my battery's in the back, you know? Right. So
I need to run one that goes straight to the battery
that I can just plug in a jumper cable off. Yeah,
I was thinking about running a separate one inside
the truck so that I could just run the compressor.
sitting in the truck and I have to pull it out
every time. The only time I usually pull it out
is when I'm helping someone else or something
like that. I can still air my truck up where
the compressor sits with the amount of hose that
I have. Okay, so you know all that shade I threw
at the ARB compressor? I'm thinking about getting
one, but not because I think they're good. I
still think that they're way overpriced. I'll
probably get a knockoff. I'll probably get a
knockoff because the knockoff is built in the
same factory. It's literally the same pump, but
it's $250 instead of $600. Yeah. But I found
a guy who has built the ARB compressor into a
small packout. Yeah. So it is a removable air
compressor that's all fully enclosed with switches
and everything all in a packout. Yep. Hmm. And
it is absolutely fucking cool. Yeah, it's removable.
Yep. Why? You just, I guess, the reason to have
it removable is so that you can move it around?
I really don't need it removable. I just like
the idea of it being in a packout so I can get
it out of the way. Yep. Because I can just throw
it in my packout stack. Yeah, I was just wondering,
like, if you had extra space in, like, your battery
pack out where your battery sits, you could just
mount it in there. No, there's not that lot of
space in there. Oh, it wouldn't. No. Yeah, it
wouldn't fit in there. I'm trying to find it
real quick so I can send it to you, and then
Mark can put a screenshot of it in the show notes.
Yeah, dude, it's really freaking cool. Yeah.
I'm debating about doing it as well. Yeah, I
think until mine breaks, I'm going to be happy
with the one I got for now. Seems to be doing
okay. Yeah, I mean, it's big. It's heavy. It's
the only downside to it. It takes up more space
than it needs to. I just don't know if I would
touch those again after mine collapsed in on
itself twice. Twice. Yeah. Well, I was a little
apprehensive with the all -top after mine fucked
up. So that's kind of where I was wondering about
that. And the thing is with the all -top is the
way that yours failed, Gavin, honestly, I can
make yours work. All that happened with that
one is the little circuit board failed on it.
That's an easy thing to fix. With Mark's, it
literally, the screws that hold the reeds on
got spit off into the cylinders and just exploded
the cylinders. Yeah. Like, twice. It happened
twice. Yep. We took it all apart, put a new piston
in once, and then it did it the next use. Yep.
Yeah, but the thing is, if you're paying that
much money for it, it shouldn't have a six -hour
burnout time, you know? No, it shouldn't. Combine
the amount of hours that I probably used on that
one was less than six hours total. So, I mean,
that's horrible. I mean, this one that I've used
already has gotten past that and then some. And
the crazy thing is the circuit board that's on
your Thor's Lightning is the exact same one that's
on the all -top compressor. Yep. The exact same
part. You just got lucky. I don't know the difference.
If you would. You just got lucky or unlucky.
The only difference is the color and name brand
on it. Because there's, like, probably almost
10 or 20 companies selling the same exact compressor
setup, just repainted and rebranded. Yep. Oh,
yeah. I agree with that. They're all knockoffs
of Morphlates. Technically, the original was
Nappa. Well, yeah. I think it wasn't, or was
Nappa the knockoff of Tyler's? No, Nappa was
the original because they don't sell it anymore.
Dirt for Life was saying that he couldn't find
Napa anymore because that was his original. Yeah.
Huh. Either way, everyone's ripping each other
off. Yeah. I'm just glad mine's lasted as long
as it has. I mean, the one time we used it, New
Year's, we did three different trucks with it
consistently. So, yeah, I was pretty impressed
with that. And it didn't have auto shutoffs for
the compression either. Like, the all -top that
I had, it would just run consistently, whether
you were doing anything or not. And this one
will actually turn off if you're not using it.
It has, like, an auto pressure shutoff almost.
Yeah, mine did too. Mark's did too, and then
we ripped it out and replaced it with a better
one, and then it still duped itself. Yep. Yeah.
Well, all right, what else did we do this weekend?
You had, other than rigs and coffee, I guess.
We had rigs and coffee. Yeah. I did my winch
this weekend. Yeah, that looked pretty sick.
Mr. Chopped the whole bumper off. Yeah, yeah,
I made some holes. Mark put out a good observation
that I could probably just recess a box in there
and maybe put a recovery gear or something like
that in there. Yeah. Might be what I do. Oh,
that'd be pretty sick. It might as well. The
hole's already there. Yeah, I mean, I spent all
the... Go ahead. I dealt with Jackson having
meltdowns the entire time. And then he didn't
want to play with Jasper. And then we got home
and he's like, all right, I want to play with
Jasper now. It's too late. Yeah, Jasper was tired
when we got there, so he wasn't trying to play
much. He woke up, had some cookies, saw that
everybody else was playing around, and then he
was ready. Yeah. He was ready to go. So we ran
around that, talked to a couple people we haven't
seen all winter, and finally got Scott back his
sand. I've had a tent stake from Scott for, like,
over a year. Speaking of our Labor Day camping
trip, he lent us one. to help try to get my tent
down because I didn't have any sand stakes. Yep.
And then he left early one day, and we never
got it back to him. So I've been waiting since
Labor Day to give it back to him. And I'm like,
I have something for you. He's like, oh? And
I gave it back, and he just starts laughing.
I'm like, I've been waiting so long to get this
one silver tent stake back to you. So we got
to see Scott. He's a cool guy. He likes his cigars.
He's always been relaxed. And he drives a...
I was going to say, you're talking Frontier,
Scott, right? Yeah. Yeah, he drives the Nissan
Frontier. It's pretty cool. It's got a little
fridge in there that works great. He's got a
good little setup. And then he's got a little
off -road bike that he drives, too, now. So he's
cool to camp with. Oh, yeah. Saw the Derricks.
All the Derricks were there, I think. Not all
the Joes were there, though. Not all the Joes.
No, not all the Joes. Most Joes. There's a lot
of Derricks, a lot of Joes. Yeah. And then we
saw a cool avalanche. There was like an avalanche
that pulled up. Yeah, the black one. That tremor.
That park next to you was super sick. That was
super sick. Yeah, that Tremor was there last
year, too. That thing's gorgeous. There was a
Tiguan, I think it was. I think it was pretty
interesting to look at. Did you see that? Big
old tires. I guess I didn't. It was down the
line a little bit. lifted Volkswagen Tiguan that
had some muddies on it. Oh, I did see that. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. There was a GMC Terrain. Yep. Yep.
Yep, we checked that out. Distracted Zach so
we could throw a sticker on there, a sticker
on the back of his window. And then what else?
There was one of my other buddies I was camping
with, one of the kids' camps. I haven't seen
him since that kid camp. He had the Lexus SUV.
It was like the tan one. I forget which one it
is. Or I'm sorry, not a Lexus, Land Cruiser.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's got a good setup,
too. He's got a cool kid. He was playing with
Jasper last time. So it was cool seeing all the
people, seeing everyone get out of hibernation.
Everybody made fun of my bumper. Yeah. I will
say, after seeing your fair lead, I am on the
hunt for one, because I think that's the setup
I want to go to. Yeah? Yeah, shout out to Casey
on that one. It was pretty cool of him to give
me that. Oh, by the way, I finally gave Casey
the hug that you refused to give him. Me? Yeah.
Dude's a big guy. I was like, oh my. What a tall
glass of water. he is a big tall and then he
brought me into his shop and that thing was and
he showed me his fucking truck his bronco oh
my god this thing is gorgeous no case you don't
like i didn't you don't notice like some of these
trucks that you see like on facebook and stuff
the guys that you talk to online like man you
don't realize how big their vehicles are Yeah.
It's like, do you guys see that Jeep that was
on, like, 37s or Ford? Oh, yeah, the one parking
next to Derek. I think it was Red Sasquatch or
Red Beard Sasquatch. I cannot. I can't think
of what his name is. He comes to beer days. Yeah,
yeah. I can't remember his name either, but he
was there last time, and I'm like, holy shit.
Yeah, he's so nice. Yeah, it's on 37s. I think
it's still stock axles, if I remember right.
I know it's got some power adders making it a
little faster. It's geared pretty well. It's
beautiful. It's a very well -built rig. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. What else? Any other little cool vehicles
that we saw? We had Patrick's second -gen 4Runner.
Was that your first time meeting Casey? Yeah.
Casey's a cool cat. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Patrick did
bring his 4Runner, too. That was the first time
I met Patrick in person. It's not really a first
-gen 4Runner. It's a Toyota pickup with a 4Runner
back on it. I forgot it was a first -gen. I forgot
it was a first -gen. Technically. I mean, it's
a sixth -gen, but it's gorgeous. And he drives
it all the way from Missouri or Arkansas on,
like, super swampers. That are warped. Crazy.
Damn, dude. He says it's not bumpy inside, but
I can't imagine that it's not bumpy on the BVS.
No, it was Arkansas plates. Yeah, I'm pretty
sure it's Arkansas. He also has an engine out
of a 19 Tacoma. four -cylinder in there? I'm
pretty sure it's a 19 Tacoma. It is a wild build.
We did an episode with Patrick before. We should
post that in the show notes. It was cool. Everyone
thought you guys were going to bring your trailer.
You didn't bring your trailer. We were fairly
disappointed in that, too. It all came down to,
one, it nosedives like crazy on Mark's truck.
Yeah. My truck, I haven't beefed up the hitch
yet. It's not rated for towing. But once I do
that, I'll be able to pull it. And then, three,
the lights didn't work. Yeah. So, yeah. That
was the main factor out of all the lights. Heck,
I would have towed it if I could, but I can't
even get my freaking. ball out of the back of
mine. I think it'll sit too low for you, though.
Yeah, just probably. Even with Mark, dude, it's
like nine inches off the ground with Mark's truck
or something like that. Like, it's really close.
I mean, that's the reason why I want to get rid
of that bumper and hitch receiver and integrate
the hitch into the new bumper once I make that.
Speaking of your bumper, didn't you fix your
latch finally? Oh, yeah. That was another thing
we did. We finally welded a new latch on instead
of having it fucking ratchet straps shut for
last year almost now. Fun times. Yeah. And working
on the trailer this weekend gave us ideas for
the next trailer. I mean, it's... fully rebuilt
our idea of the trailer too. Yeah. Next trailer.
These are project guys for you. They always want
something to work on. We have two trucks. Don't
we need two trailers? No. Ironically, what we're
talking about is going to go against a lot of
our sayings. It's going to be funny when they
come out. Our rooftop town. Yeah. Knew it. But
mounted sideways. But mounted sideways. That's
alright. What we're looking at doing is going
to be really cool. It kind of goes more into
the Overland trailer thing, which I always say
is kind of dumb, and it is kind of dumb, but
god are they cool. Don't get me wrong, if I say
something's dumb, it doesn't mean it isn't fucking
cool. Like, rooftop tents, I think they're dumb
as hell, but they are so fucking cool. Yep. That's
my next big purchase. I know, and I think it's
a big waste of money, but you know how fucking
cool it's going to be? It's going to be so nice.
I'm waiting for my rack. My rack comes in tomorrow.
Nice. I'll be getting that in, taking everything
off my roof. Are you going to... Come put it
on with us this weekend? I can. No, I can't.
I work this weekend. Yeah. I know. It would be
next weekend, if anything. Well, I guess that
gets us into upcoming weekend plans. Let's start
with Mark. What are you doing this weekend? Sailing,
not working on my vehicle. You still haven't
gotten an update on those? I have not. I looked
today. It said it was preparing to ship, but
that was about it. Because we really need to
fix his cam bolt things for his alignment, but
we're waiting on a part that is now two weeks
since he ordered it. Yes. Very annoying. Hey,
did you order that canopy? Yes, I did. That was
very annoying. You got the brown one? Yes, I
got the brown one. I literally went to click
to purchase and it said, item no longer available.
I'm like, what? It said you had two of them.
Literally like two seconds ago. Yeah, so we ordered,
well, I guess we didn't. Mark ordered it. But
we got a beaver canopy. It's six -sided, I believe.
Yep. And has hard sides, so when it's raining
and stuff, you can throw the hard sides on it.
Yep. Send that so that Gavin can look at it.
We can put it in the show notes. Yep. Yeah, it's
super sick, dude. And I'm going to throw a stove
jack in the roof so we can put a wood stove in
it in the winter. Mm -hmm. Huh. Interesting.
Yeah. Let's see the, looking for the hard side.
Yeah, the hard sides, they just Velcro over the
netting. Oh. Yeah. I'm thinking it was like a
hard, hard side. No, no, no, no. Oh, no, no,
no, no. When I say hard side, I mean it's like
tarp that covers the walls to keep it from getting
wet. But for a quick setup canopy, it's pretty
freaking sick. And I was. I was reading through
the negative reviews last night and there's only
like one negative review. And the lady's like,
it only lasted six months. And then you're looking
at her pictures and she clearly set it up and
left it out for six months. Yeah. Oh, 10 months.
Oh, like as a gazebo. Yeah. Like she literally
used it as a hard gazebo and then was disappointed
that it sun faded and stuff. How dare you? But
it's clear that that's not how it's meant to
be used. You know what I mean? It's meant for
a pop -up tent or, like, for camping pretty much.
Yeah, that would be a cool little social spot.
Oh, yeah. That's what we're thinking is days
like Friday when it was really windy, we can
throw a fire pit in there and have a little fire.
Kind of coming around after the windy day to
Gavin's way of thinking on propane fire pits.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I've seen that too. An inexpensive
one. Oh, yeah. I found a super nice fire pit
for like $250. Jesus. Yeah. $250 is not cheap,
but I guess in the overland world it is. I mean,
considering what we're talking about is like
1 ,000 for the good ones. But I'm not... I mean,
I'm not saying that propane is better than wood.
It's just nice that you can burn propane in windy
conditions. And we can use that rigs of coffee
and not worry about where we're putting our ashes
at. Yeah, that's the one I was... Yeah, that's
the one I was talking about. Oh, okay. Well,
I found it. I love it. Yeah, that's the one I
was going to look in again. Yeah. Well, it's
sick. I've done a lot of research, and I've approved
it. It's a good purchase. Welcome to the dark
side. I still... The longer he does it, the more
he's like, I hate rooftop tents, but I kind of
like them. Propane fire pits suck, but I'm kind
of coming around. No, you can ask Mark. I've
always liked rooftop tents because they're fucking
cool. But I think that they are way too much
money for what they are. Yeah, I don't know,
man. Just for the price of it, I'm not paying,
you know, I'm not doing it. If I include labor
and the cost of making it, then I'm okay with
it. I just don't think, you know, I can get a
rooftop tent that will comfortably sleep me and
Kaylin, not necessarily the dogs, and that's
going to cost me $2 ,500. Or I can go get a Walmart
tent for $100 that comfortably sleeps all of
us, including Mark and Alan. Absolutely. Absolutely.
To me, it's just a cost to use case is just hard
to accept. I guess my only argument is how many
times can you use that a day at a time? Like,
you know, rooftop tents, they have their purpose.
You know, it's for day set up, day set down.
You know, you're leaving in the morning. I think
that a quick set up ground tent. is still better
cost use case even if you're setting up every
day absolutely i i do too i think the only difference
is when it comes into durability and time that's
the only thing that's the only thing that i think
that would really set it apart well um and in
my case space saving with time it takes most
people about three to four minutes to get the
rooftop tent set up So I'll give them that it
takes me seven to eight minutes to set up my
big tent. But the downside is that rooftop tents
don't last as long as a good ground tent. They'll
last longer than my $100 ground tent for sure.
But all that up and down causes a lot of wear
on those tent sides. Yeah, I would say durability,
most rooftop tents are pretty darn good. I mean,
they're doing the same thing. I mean, as your
ground tents are doing. You know what I mean?
I mean, the up and down, I would say, would be
more of a clamshell issue. The only rooftop tents
that I would give a durability pass on are the
wedge style. Those, 100 % better than any of
the other ones, from a durability standpoint.
I'm really excited to get mine. Try that out.
The only rooftop tent that... The only rooftop
tent I'm actually interested in would be a wedge
style. Because, again, durability -wise, they
have the best standing. Yeah. I'm interested,
too, for you to try mine when I get it. I'm very
sorry to all the listeners who are listening
to us talk over each other today. Our internet
connections aren't the best, so there's like
a lag, so we keep talking over each other. It's
gotten even worse as you were talking about it.
I know. Like I said, I don't hate rooftop tents.
I just think that for the price, they're not
necessarily worth it. Sure. And I'll throw my
reasons out one more time before and just let
it be. One. The bedding and stuff that would
typically go into my truck, my bedding, even
like a couple of other compact necessities can
all be put in my rooftop tent. So it brings storage
out of my truck and on top of it to where I wouldn't
typically have something there. So that's one.
Two, the second one that I'm looking at is aluminum
top and bottom. So that helps with the durability.
And it's canvas sided. So you're getting that
nice heavy canvas that I know that you like,
Alex, and you're getting that durability from
the aluminum. So that's why I kind of go to that
before I even try a soft rooftop or anything
like that first. Yeah, don't try a soft rooftop.
I'm not. Now, for a counterpoint to that is you're
actually losing storage at the same time that
you're gaining storage. because you store a lot
of shit on the rear truck, and a lot of that's
not going to be able, the rooftop tent won't
be able to support it. Yeah, so I'm going to,
my plan is to evolve that a little bit. So a
lot of the stuff that I have on my roof, I don't
need to. Like Socket said, I don't need up there.
It can just go on the floor. My biggest thing
is I want to add solar panels, which I want to
put on the rooftop tent. Yeah, you can do that,
which makes sense. I want to wire those into
the solar panel on my hood. So it's either I'm
going to do the solar panel on the hood, which
then gets the usable space on the hood, and then
run a Pelican case with the extra tools and stuff
on top. There is a weight limit, obviously, but
I'm not going to go past 50, 60 pounds. Honestly,
that'd be the way to do it. Put your solar panel
on the hood and then use above the tent for stool
storage. Because then I could put everything,
that black pelican case that I bought from you,
I could put everything pretty much into that
and just run it right there. Yep. Yeah, then,
I mean, there's other things with rooftop tents.
Like, honestly, for me, my bedding is so compact
and tight that I don't have a storage problem
with bedding. Because it could fit anywhere.
It's small. It doesn't take up space. Especially
summertime. Because summertime, I could get away
with a blow -up camping pillow and my whoopee.
And that takes up the size of a keyboard. Yeah.
I mean, I definitely see that point. But we're
definitely not camping for... We're camping for
comfort, too. At the same time, you don't camp...
even if i bring caitlyn you guys sleep uh in
different types of bedding than we do so like
your your bedding takes up more space just inherently
so it makes sense i mean have the rooftop tent
closed yeah i mean we you know we have the comforter
we have the kids stuff sienna sleeps very very
she's very cold -blooded so like even like The
nice, you know, zero -degree bag that I have
for her, she's still shivering. I bet she would
do great in a military sleeping bag. Oh, yeah.
I don't know if it'd be any different. And that's
not a ding against that. I think she's just,
if her face is above anything, she's cold. And
then the decent heat is just going to be. Your
zero -degree sleeping bag is rated for, like,
40 degrees. warmer than what our military bags
are with the full setup. If my wife, who gets
cold at 90 degrees, can sleep in one comfortably
in 20 degrees, I think Sienna might be okay.
Another thing you might want to check if he needs
is let the sleeping bag breathe like we discovered.
Yes, so if you have your zero -degree bag, if
you keep it rolled up and compact, it actually
degrades its R -value and makes it significantly
worse. You're supposed to leave it hanging up.
Yeah, when we're not using it, we don't keep
it in a compressed sack. We keep it in just a
holder bag, which is basically... It'd be like
loosely rolling it. It'd be just like loosely
rolling it up. Just the holder bag degrades R
-value. You're supposed to hang them up and let
them be completely free -breathing. Oh, yeah,
that ain't happening. We don't have any place
to put those damn things. So what I've got is
I've got a pretty decent -sized Rubbermaid that
I throw mine in. It's not perfect because hanging
it would be better, but it's a lot bigger than
just a holding bag. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm not
too concerned with it. Like I said, the diesel
heater is going to come into play sooner rather
than later before we probably get the rooftop
tent anyway. Just a... Just a wire, or not wire,
but to put right into my tent just to keep the
kid warm. Honestly, at least for winter camping,
since Kaelin won't winter camp with me, those
little light fighter tents that we got, I don't
even know that we're going to need diesel heaters.
Like, it'd be nice for drying gear. I'll give
it that. Yep. But if we set up that gazebo, we
could hang the gear in the gazebo with the wood
stove running. They dry it just as good. Yeah,
I was about to say, we technically probably should
have had the cold weather tip for this last weekend
based off what we had. Yeah, I still wasn't cold.
Oh, I know. I wasn't either. I would say the
upside to you guys and how you camp is that you
camp more as a unit than you do as a singular.
You know what I mean? Like if you guys go camping.
Mark carries some of it, you carry some of it,
and then with the two of you, that makes up all
of it. And I think that helps quite a bit with
the comfort. That's kind of what all botches
trips, that's kind of what I try to do is we
don't go camping as individuals that are all
there. I mean, you were with us on botches yearly.
We kind of just, the whole group that's out there,
we're all working together. Why don't we split
up where stuff needs to be? Yeah. No, I mean,
I'm with you. Um, whereas my camping is more
individual set up. So that's why, like, I was
looking at it at first. I was looking at it at
the point. It was like, well, Alex is just, he
doesn't have this. He doesn't have this. And
then I was like, oh, okay. Mark's got the other
half of it. So, yep. Cause that's what I was
kind of looking at. It was like, man, if you
were to go out and do it solo with your, with
like, if you, your kid, your dog, were to go
out, your setup would be very different. And
if you were to do it consistent, right, but I
mean like if you were to do it consistently,
then that setup would consistently change because
of how you need to pack your storage, like do
your storage. That was actually kind of the birthplace
of using packouts because I could build out packouts
for when I'm solo or when Mark's coming with
me. So I would have the ability to just grab
what I need for that trip. Right. Yeah. And I
mean, sure. We buy, we kind of buy double the
camping gear doing that because I have, I mean,
I have a stove that is only for when I'm going
solo. Yep. Right. And then we've got another
stove that's only for when we go together. Yeah.
And then when we were together, it was like,
we use Mark's stove the one day. Did we? Was
that your stove? Yeah, I think it was. When you
made the fish tacos or the chicken tacos. He
used your stove for that. Oh, okay. Then at that
point, we used my stove, I think, all weekend.
We didn't bring our stove because we knew you
had one. Exactly. That's why I was saying earlier,
I was like, damn, he doesn't have this, he doesn't
have this. At that point, when we were doing
that, I didn't know that that's how you guys
camped. To me, that didn't make sense, but I
didn't realize that you guys camp as a team,
and I'm not used to that, so that's why it kind
of threw me off for a second. I'm like, damn,
they ain't got nothing. Also helps is that they
got a lot of beer. Also, the stove we have only
has one setting for burn. It does not have adjustments.
Yeah, one setting for burn. We're fixing that.
Yes, we're fixing that. It's all the way on or
all the way off? Yes. Yeah. But, yeah, wow. You
know what, guys? We're just going to do two hours
today. One hour that was our weekend recap and
one hour that's not because this built up quick.
It did. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's worth – how
do I put this? I like camping as a team because
our vehicles don't have to be weighed down with
as much stuff. We can spread it out over multiple
rigs. And if you think about it, when we go out
as a group, we're eating dinner together anyways.
I mean, everything we do is pretty much together
anyways. I feel like the weird odd man out because
to me it's like when I camp together with a group,
everybody's got their own shit. And like we convene
together to have our chats or maybe to share
cook stuff. But I will say that when we camped
together, I think that was, was that the first
time that we all camped together like that? I
think she was. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
And I think that was the first time that I have
camped like that. And I was thrown off at first
because I was like, I'm like, fuck it. What the
hell? Like they ain't got nothing. And like I
said, I didn't realize at the time that that's
how you guys playing and camped to me at that
time. I was like, oh man, very unprepared. And
then Alex just loved my pooper station. I was
like, my truck's like the kitchen and the shitter,
and their trucks are just like the beer rigs.
And if you think about it, I mean, the reason
that we do that is we're very broke. Like, very
poor. And by splitting off... splitting up the
purchases between the two of us, or I guess three
because Alan's part of it too, by splitting up
purchases between the three of us, we all get
to camp like we're rich men, even though we're
still poor. Yeah, and that was such a weird thing
for me. And not to go too deep into this because
it's not really that deep, but I've always been
more of a solo person. I've always done my stuff
more solo. I've never like... Even when I was
camping before this, I've always done it like
by myself. I always found a comfort in having
everything I needed. So I don't know that I'll
change, but as far as like letting someone else
handle some of it. But for the sake of like how
you guys do it, I'll bring extra and make sure
that I, you know, talk to you guys about how,
what I'm bringing, what's, you know, what I can
be expected to. you know, give things in that
kind of situation. Before our yearly last year,
I actually made a list of what I'm bringing,
what Mark's bringing, and then let you, and we,
we do that because again, we're very poor. Right.
Yeah. And that was something I didn't realize.
I just thought we were all trying to make sure
we had stuff like that wasn't what I was. So,
so in that, yeah. So now that I know I'm like,
okay, it's, it's a different situation. But I
was very uncomfortable. I was like, Sienna's
like, they don't have the stuff? I was like,
I think they do. They're just not getting it
out. And then I realized after, obviously, after
we got our weekend done, I'm like, okay, they
have some of the stuff, but this is a team thing.
Just not used to that. And that's not a dog or
a bad thing at all. it tended to be a very good
weekend and i thought it was a lot of fun but
it was just one of those things where i'm so
used to that relying on yourself and having everything
you need in your vehicle if you think about like
a mitten state tourist trip having everything
in your vehicle or between you and a buddy is
really important because those are drastically
different from a botches trip yeah um yeah that's
actually why botches came to be was that We wanted
a smaller group of people that we could trust
and rely on, that we could do these team -type
events without having to have everything individual.
So that's why we keep botches. We're what, five
members, six members big? We're not a big group.
And you'll never see botches get above 10 people
because the whole point in botches, well, 10
guys. Sorry, ladies, I don't really count you.
There's kind of like a core person and then add
-ons. But we're not looking to have like a Mitten
State Tours -level group where there's thousands
of people that all go camping together. We're
looking to have a core group that can actually
trust each other and do well out in the field
as a team. Yep. Yeah. See, I'm a guilty double
-dipper, though. I like the botches -style trips,
but I also really like the MST -style trips because
I like being able to do the trails together.
But then at the end of the day, I like actually
having the whole... To me, it was like going
back to your own abode. It was like a get -together.
Everyone chatted by the fire, and then you kind
of all went back and did your own thing. And
I like that because it kept the spirit of...
you know camping and being out the middle of
nowhere um so like i'm the type of person that
like i like doing those more often and doing
the botches type trips less yeah not not in a
bad way no but like but when the bot the botches
are like a family reunion where you only want
to be there for like five hours not not in like
not real time but like but like in a family reunion
you're there and you only want to be there for
like five hours yep But like the MST trips are
like the weekend getaway where everyone's got
their own hotels. So you can do small doses of
people for longer periods. And that's why we
only do, what, one big botches trip a year? Yeah.
You know, botches yearly, that is that style
of trip is botches yearly. But when it comes
to like third gen weekend, third gen weekend's
way different. yeah yeah that's more i mean that's
a public more of a public thing where yeah we're
gonna have a potluck uh i think it's saturday
night we're doing a potluck i can't remember
now friday or saturday night we'll do a potluck
meal but for the most part you're on your own
on third gen weekend you get back you can we'll
have a community fire but you can go off to your
own space that kind of thing yeah i like that
i i do because it keeps the spirit of The camping
and being in the outdoors and being away from
the hubbub, you know, botches is about bringing
you together as a community and, and talking
and being the hubbub, you know, and then these
other events are more of like, Hey, this is the
reason that you left is to actually get away
from all of that. So we're going to give you
your own, you know, solidarity or give you your
own space. That's why everybody's got separate
camp spots and their own little fires or little
cook stations. So it's like, yeah, when you get
there, you have your own little Island, but if
you choose to, you can go and commune. Whereas
botches, it is one event. So you're there to
be there with other people. You know what I mean?
So, I mean, there's pluses to both of those.
I could not do a botches style event. One with
more than, Like what we had out there with you
guys, us, and Mark and Alan, that was, I could
do a couple more people, but not much more, and
I could only do it one trip a year. I could not
do that multiple times a year. Yeah. Right. I
think it's just having everybody together like
that, because like me, I was stressed out too.
I was like, I wanted to know because of what
it was, and it was out of my comfort spot, the
type of camping. I wanted to know what everyone
was doing. I wanted to make sure that everyone
was okay, that everyone was situated, and all
that extra stress I had to worry about everybody.
Not that it had to be done, but that's just kind
of my mom brain, I guess. You know, my parental...
I've always been, like, the group mother, which
is why I'm probably the safety officer, too.
I'm the opposite. I'm usually the group father.
Ew. So... You better quit this mother -ass shit.
But no, I like the botches trip. I couldn't do
it more than one a year. And the other thing
is, with the botches yearly style events, it
gives us the ability to, even though we're very
poor, go out places like Moab or Rubicon, those
farther distance places, because we can split
the cost up between three or four people. I mean,
our first botches yearly, we went as far as splitting
the cost of fuel at times. Yeah. Like, it was
fully. Yeah, there was definitely times where
I don't remember if we had. I don't think we
ended up having to. But there was times where
I think, where I was like, Alex, shit, dude,
I don't know if I'm going to have enough for
this. And he's like, don't worry about it. And
that's great as the botches yearly thing. But,
you know, like, I would never ask another MST
member. I would never bum them for money or anything.
Oh, 100%. Not that they wouldn't do it. There's
plenty of really nice guys that would do it in
a heartbeat, like Derek Nolan, Derek's dad. In
a heartbeat, they would. But that's not the point
of it. The botches are a whole different setup.
That's where I say the MST, that's a group, whereas
botches are a club or a team, if you will. Because
it's a whole different experience when you go
on those two different types of events. I think
that's why I like doing both. I like both. That's
why I do both. Yeah. And I'm already the type
of person that we like to kind of set up and
do nightly runs to where we set up for one night
and then we pick everything up and go to the
next spot. So MST is really good for that, whereas
botches are really good for the nice, relaxing
three -day camps where we can go out and come
back. That's only botches yearly. If you go on
almost any other botches event, we're not doing
it for third -gen weekend just because there's
people coming at different times. But almost
any other botches event is you camp in one spot,
you move to another the next night. Yeah. And
that's where, like... When we were talking about
all the awning and all that, that's where maybe
something like that would start to get a little
monotonous. You know what I'm saying? Like having
to set up everything like that. I think that's
where having a 270 with sides that could zip
right up would be interesting to have. To me,
even if you're setting up every night, something
more like a gazebo hub is more interesting. An
awning like the one you have, I would hate to
set that up every night. Absolutely fucking not.
The one I have? Yeah. My little shitter awning?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The external separate
one. Oh, yeah. I don't want that. Your 10x10.
That's a three -day. That's a three -day awning.
Like that Viver one that we just bought? That's
one that I would set up and take down every night.
It takes five minutes maybe to tear it down and
set it up. And then our Cotton Lightfighter is
a simple setup as well. Five minutes. Yep. Yep.
Yep. And if I was, if Kaylin's not big on the
setup teardown every night, so if I'm doing that
style event, it's usually just me. So the Lightfighter
is going to be more my style. Yep. Yeah. Yeah,
I tend to, I tend, like, and as I do the setup
teardown stuff every night, That's where I could
start to get behind some of the quick setup stuff
that you'd cost maybe a little bit more. Do I
have it right now? No. But can I see a future
to where if I'm doing this every weekend, where
it might be actually more useful? Because the
less time you have setting up, the more time
you have to actually relax. It's kind of where
I'm at. If I could shave a few minutes off here
and there. And then having the ease of use to
just fold it up and roll it up and be done. That's
kind of nice. Even like the packouts, using the
packouts this last year has kind of changed a
little how I want to do things. Like I'm building
a platform to put the packouts on and putting
a folding table under it so I can pull the folding
table out and use it like a counter off my truck
or pull it out and use it as a table. Gavin,
are you alright? Did you just die? Did you just
spill your drink on your keyboard? No, I just
pulled my whole keyboard drawer off of my desk.
Oh my god. Oh jeez. Jesus Christ. So, bear with
me while I make installing noises in the dark.
And like god, let there be light. Sorry, everybody.
I was pulling that out, not knowing how much
I had to go there. That was scary. Well, while
Gavin does that. But, yeah, so, like, to me,
I still am not the biggest fan of having things
on my truck. Okay, let me rephrase that. I like
dual -purpose things. If I'm going to have a
counter on my truck, it can't only be mounted
on my truck. I want to be able to take it off
and use it somewhere else. Yeah, you don't want
it permanently fixed. I don't want to be locked
to the truck. Because maybe for whatever reason,
I don't want to take my truck to a site. Right.
I want to live out of my truck. So I want everything
permanently fixed with the ability to take it
apart. Exactly. I want the ability to live out
of my truck. but also be able to just take it
apart quickly and use it at the campsite separate.
Yeah. Like the 270 awning I want to get, that's
like a 270 extended, which the way that my door
swings out, it would cover up the back area where
I would cook. So I want something like that that
will be able to do the porch area, you know,
where we might be sitting in the rain, and then
also cover the rain area where I'm cooking and
be comfortable. Vehicle awnings in the rain is
garbage. External awnings are really the best
way to go in the rain. I don't know, man. I mean,
I get the sideways rain stuff, but I've been
under some awnings in the rain. So what happens
is, in all of them, they pool unless you slope
it way down, and then you're stuck sitting right
against the back of the truck. Yep. And it makes
it a very unpleasant experience. Yeah, I don't
know. I guess I've had a different experience.
We had this experience with Ed and his forerunner
with his awning. It was raining that last night.
Yeah, last night at Drummond. And if it's a light
rain, awnings are fine. But if it's a heavy torrential
downpour, that's when you want an external awning.
Yeah. If you want to continue to be in the community
setting, otherwise just go to your tent and close
up the awning and you're good to go. for sure
i don't know i've uh the the couple times i mean
i can't say that i've used it in torrential downpours
but a couple times i have used those side awnings
they really haven't been that bad i mean obviously
you have like when the rains are pushing and
you have it coming in sideways but i mean typically
with a regular like my 10 by 10 awning my external
we had that out when it rained um during zach
nolan and i's trip yeah and yeah there was about
one foot of space to where now that that wasn't
wet the secret with the uh external awnings is
they have to have their own sides it can't just
be just a roof right and i mean i guess the problem
with a truck awning i guess if you had a tall
enough truck it wouldn't be a problem but for
the average overland build, you're not looking
at a 5 -inch lift or 6 -inch lift. You're looking
at a 3 -inch lift, and that's going to make it
so that by the time you've sloped that awning
enough that there's not water pooling, you've
got almost no space underneath it. Yeah, I'd
be interested to see what awning Ed had, and
I know Ed's got a good one. Yeah, the awning's
great. I'm just interested. One awning for me
is shade. This sounds stupid, but, like, the
nicest reason that I could see the awning, like,
being really nice is, like, when we're sitting
in an open area, like, on Lake Superior, and
it's just 90, and the sun is just killing us.
Oh, yeah. Like, that's where, like, okay, that'd
be nice. Or, like, rigs and coffee, like, when
there's no cover, and you're just sweating your
dick off for no reason. So, like, that awning
for sure there. But, like, I still think there's
definitely, like, there's a rain purpose. I think
that there's just more of a science to sloping
it than if you were to just have your own external
awning with walls. You know what I mean? Like,
you have to do a little more, maybe, you know,
tying it down and making sure your angles are
right. And, yeah, maybe it falls a little low,
but if you're all sitting in chairs, you know,
I don't see much of an issue with that. Well,
now you're all locked against the truck and can't
really play cards. That's fine with me. Yeah,
but I'm not thinking big groups either, though,
bud. I'm thinking me, my wife, and my son. I'm
thinking three or four people. Yeah, they could
get their own awning. They could find their own,
man. I think I would butt my awning up against
your external awning, and then we could use it
as just a big center, big hub. This is the longest
half hour. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's our first
time back in after being sick. It's like Gavin
missed a week. So it's like ketchup. We really
haven't talked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you
miss me. So. All right. We will catch you guys
later. Later. See you.