Welcome to Botches Off -Road. Join us as we talk
about everything from gear reviews to trail stories,
tent camping to rock landing, and all things
to do with the outdoors. Today, we are doing
a kind of fun one, off -roading myths and misconceptions.
What's actually true? And I'm not going to lie,
I totally went on chat GPT and asked it for the
best possible topic for today's episode. Let
this be your AI -generated content for the day.
The very first one that... Oh, go ahead, Gavin.
Oh, no, I was just about to ask which one's our
first topic, man. Yeah, so the first thing is...
Number one is you need a big lift to go off -road.
And this is... very much so not true fact yeah
so this is the this is the topic yeah it's a
myth or misconception so then we're yeah so this
is a myth according to them and i agree oh yeah
because you can definitely go off -roading in
a honda civic a miata or a miata we've seen lots
of cool miata builds what was that three -wheeled
one i sent you recently last couple months like
it was a very that reliant Yeah. Reliant Robin.
Yeah. Someone off -road Reliant Robin. God, I've
seen someone do Gambler, do Moab with a Crown
Vic. Hell yeah, dude. I was trying to get my
little brother to buy a Crown Vic, and he was
telling me, it's two -wheel drive. It won't work
in the snow. So I was sending him videos of Crown
Vics just bombing through the fucking desert
in the snow. Yeah. I think we have too many vehicles
and the groups that we share together that aren't
necessarily meant for off -road that prove that
you can actually still go off -road with them.
I mean, obviously it depends on what you're doing.
If you've got big rocks, which Michigan typically
does not. I mean, you need maybe a little bit
of extra clearance or maybe some mud holes or
something like that. We have bypasses for most
of those. So, I mean, for, I would say Michigan,
yeah, you definitely don't need it. If you were
to do black diamond stuff. I don't think you
could do the Rubicon. I don't think you could
do the Rubicon in a Crown Vic. I was going to
say a Corvair, but I know you can do the Rubicon
in a Corvair. Yeah, you definitely can. But that
does have a lift. A big lift. Yeah, definitely.
And it's not even a Corvair underneath anymore.
Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, you don't need a big
lift. I mean, heck, last year we were doing a
trail ride with, I think, Austin on one of his
trail expeditions, I guess. And we had pretty
much a stock Lexus SUV with some decently shreddy
tires, and it did everything we did. And kind
of easier on some of the more off -camber situations.
I mean, you've got to think, you know, a 6 -8
-inch lift isn't always the best idea on some
off -camber situations. So there is a balance.
Higher, yeah. I like what's called a, I think
they called it LCGHC or something, low center
of gravity, high clearance. So that's what I
did on my TJ build. I think it was one inch of
lift or two inches of lift, but probably four
times the original travel. I actually chopped
out my hood and my fenders so that my tires could
go higher than. the the engine basically um yeah
and that i mean that that build worked really
well for like arizona because it was all steep
hills and you know big uh roll -offs and big
rocks and yeah i mean solid axles are gonna uh
inherently do better at things like that for
sure because of that but uh yeah well i mean
did did you see anything with i would say independent
or like cv axles that could still do that because
i mean you're limited by your how much travel
you have with that so you really can't do that
with a cv like inherently an ifs setup cannot
wheel like a solid axle um no no because you
know a solid axle you almost have there's almost
a pivot point or there is a pivot point right
so let's say on a a jeep or at least a decently
outfitted jeep it's going to have almost a center
diff in the front which is going to allow your
pivot point to basically be your center diff
because that keeps your drive shaft straight
and with that center point you can actually have
your tires go higher than what an ifs rig could
because in an ifs rig you've always got springs
pushing down i mean it can only go up so far
there might be more down travel but not up travel
yeah right I was about to say, compared to my
first Tacoma compared to the new one, lift definitely
helps a lot, but it's not needed. I was able
to wheel that Tacoma with what you had lift -wise
on your vehicle at the time. It pretty much did
everything. Yeah, it kind of rubbed a lot of
stuff, but it off -rolled the same handling as
your 4Runner did at the time. The Forerunner
definitely could have went farther than the Tacoma.
No, no, 100%. But it needed a driver mod to do
that at the time. Because I was definitely a
little more scared of breaking my daily back
then. Now it's just like, whatever, I'll fix
it. Well, it kind of helps with that same trip
you broke the vehicle. So you're like, ah, screw
it at this point. Yeah, that. Lower ball joints
are a bitch. Hey, Toyota listeners, especially
third -gen 4Runners, first -gen Tundras, first
-gen Tacomas, and first -gen Sequoias, go change
your lower ball joints right now. This is your
call. They are broken. And while you're at it,
gust at your control arms. Everyone should gusset
their control arms. Everyone should gusset their
knuckles, for sure. Okay, so we've determined
that is definitely myth. What's our second one?
Air lockers are a must -have for off -roading.
Yeah, that's myth. Right now, I'm currently wheeling
without any lockers because my rear locker is
broken, and I don't have a front locker. Yeah,
I mean, I would say, and I guess we're going
to group air and electric lockers. Yeah, all
lockers. There are plenty of vehicles that do
not have lockers that can do this fine. They
help. They sure do. And there's definitely...
You know what? There's definitely obstacles you're
not doing without lockers. Yeah, and I learned
that too. I'm newer to, I guess, the technicality
of when and when not to use lockers when it helps
and doesn't. And earlier this year with the poker
run and stuff, I definitely learned where they
have pluses and when really not to use them.
So they help. Um, and there was somebody else
who didn't quite make it up that place that didn't
have them. So, uh, do you have the same capability
to go the same places? No, but maybe with enough
throttle, maybe, but that's a, that's another,
that's another one that's coming up. Is that
throttle isn't always better. Yeah. So, I mean,
it's. I don't think, I mean, for just regular
off -roading, no. You can get more into technical
stuff that's different. I think for me, yeah,
e -lockers or lockers in general will help. But
at the same time, I think it's how you take your
lines that really help you get through the obstacles
as well. For sure. Especially in Michigan. Yeah,
I mean, lines are, yeah. Lines are very important.
I'm a baby. I'll take the easiest and nicest
line for everything to get through that obstacle
until I have to take a hard line. I go out of
my way to take the hard line. Alex doesn't take
lines. Yeah, Alex does not take the easy line
at all. But he knows the boundaries of his vehicle.
He's a lot better about fixing it. And his vehicle
has a lot more capability than mine as far as,
you know, travel goes. So he can do that and
feel more confident about it than I can try to
do the same thing and maybe break something,
maybe get stuck, you know. So, no, definitely
don't need lockers. They do help, though. For
sure. Yep. So, number three, mud terrain tires
are always the best for off -roading. So, I personally,
I think that mud terrains are a phenomenal option
for off -roading in Michigan. Yep. And solely
for off -roading. On -road, they're fine until
the snow comes. Once the snow comes and the road
gets icy. you're skating regardless of what you're
doing. I spent all winter just hoping I could
stop. This is a very true statement by him. Yeah,
very much so. But when you're buying mud terrains,
if you're buying them as the only tire for your
car, you've got to know that that's what it's
going to be like. I've driven on mud terrains
pretty much every winter since I was in high
school. Even on my Buick Roadmaster, I put mud
terrains on that old girl. Oh, she was so cute.
But, you know, you got to understand that they're
not good on snow and ice. They're inherently
worse on pavement. They are going to be louder.
They're going to ride rougher. They might wear
worse. My tires that I have right now, I'm at,
I think, 35 ,000 miles on them or something like
that. And they are wearing, they're starting
to wear very unevenly. I'm having to rotate them
like every 1 ,500 miles right now. I mean, you've
got to know that there's a possibility of going
through that when you buy mud terrains. Oh, by
the way, I'm the mud terrain expert here in this
group. Oh, he is. Also, disclaimer, a lot of
your suspension stuff has either been off, out
of whack, or not quite right. Not saying it's
broken or anything, but we've had a lot of issues.
as far as your suspension and alignment and stuff
for this year. So a lot of that could chalk up
to that as well. Yeah, because I've been through
two. I've bent two lower control arms. I've bent
a set of upper control arms. I've bent a knuckle
this year and broke a knuckle this year. These
tires have been through hell. I've beat the shit
out of them. You replaced two rack opinions.
Yeah, two rack opinions on this set of tire.
Yeah, I mean, they were cheap and they work well
for the off -road stuff that you do. I personally
am of a little bit of a different opinion. I
think some meaty all -terrains are probably my
go -to. I like to have the best of both worlds
or the best of all worlds if you can. Unfortunately,
with a tire... uh there's not really any one
tire that's best for all of them right uh so
yeah you know you have to make compromises here
there what do you want what are you doing how
long you know how long are you going to be doing
it for if you're going out you know once every
couple months maybe mud tires something you don't
need and but like that's another thing you kind
of that you just reminded me of mud tires on
rocks get chewed the hell up they throw lugs
oh yeah They rip pieces off. They fall apart
quick when you're on loose rock. Whereas an all
-terrain isn't going to be ripping apart like
that. I've got a set of mud terrains on my TJ
right now that they look like hell. They might
have 15 ,000 miles on them or something, but
they are absolutely shredded from Arizona rocks.
Yeah, that's valid too. is as far as what i was
looking into is i wanted a tire that had some
deeper tread in it so i was considering mud tires
for a while um but you know to be honest i saw
alex's handling and stuff on his and that's kind
of what told me that maybe it's not the right
move for me um so i have falcon wild peaks and
they're kind of for me they're kind of the the
best of all worlds for now Maybe Baja Bosses
or something at some point I'll try out. Thought
about it. They're good. I hear they do. Yeah,
I was going to say, I think Mark's got them.
He likes them. They work real well for me. So
quick, now that we're on tire talk, so I'm looking
for my next tire. Have you guys heard anything
about the Milestar Patagonias? Are they decent?
Because I hear what the channels tell me. So
take that with, I guess, a grain of salt because
they could be sponsored or whatnot. But I think
there's quite a few channels that are actually
running the Patagonias that like them. So like
I said, take that with a grain of salt. I've
heard good about them, but I only hear them through
channels. Because I'm going to be getting new
tires here in... probably after june so probably
july august sometime and the two that i'm looking
at right now is i can get five patagonias uh
35s for 1200 or i can get four kenda clever and
those are all trains the uh or extra xts are
the mile stars or four kenda clever mt2s for
1200 and obviously we all know how the kenda
clevers do they're phenomenal tire for the price
but I'm kind of wanting to get away from mud
terrains. Yeah. So, Kenda Clevers were a great
tire for the price. Now, they cost just as much
as just about any other tire in its class. Maybe
a little less. About $500 to $600 less. i i don't
know i was looking at those comparatively and
they were pretty comparable so maybe uh yeah
no i i always thought of them to be much cheaper
tires and you know years ago i think they were
well and i'm looking at it you know comparatively
if you're looking at 31s or 33s they're about
the same price but when you get to 35s or 37s
they're about 500 less than say Oh, Baja Boss
35s are expensive. That's like $2 ,300, $2 ,400
a tire. Yeah, those are expensive for sure. I
mean, those are, I guess, one of the more top
of the line. Oh, they are. I mean, I know the
most popular ones are kind of Clevers, you know,
KO2s and Wild Beaks. uh yeah and for good reason
a lot of people you know a lot of people swear
by ko2s a lot of people absolutely hate them
i hated my ko2s really my ko2s i i they rode
rough they shred i went through those in what
like 700 miles or something like that mark yeah
like i know my alignment was slightly off but
i completely destroyed one in like 500 miles
yeah yeah i mean i uh i've heard that in the
fj forums and stuff that people don't like ko2s
as well but yeah the overruling majority says
that wild peaks are the best for the fjs and
blah blah blah so i mean yeah i mean like i said
before uh getting back closer to my main thought
is for what we have in michigan which we have
a lot of varying terrain as far as uh you know
deep mud very fine sand, the snow, ice. I wanted
something that could do a little bit of everything
and do it decently. Mud terrains don't do great
in sand, so as much as I was on sand this last
year, I wanted to make sure that I could find
something that I was comfortable with. I wanted
something with deeper treads for mud, and I wanted
something that would still be able to handle
in the snow because this is still my daily. I
still drive my son around in it, and I want to
make sure it's safe. So, you know, wild peaks
for me were not only, I mean, I came upon a great
deal, but they were also something I had been
looking at for a while as being, I think, my
best option at the time for my budget. Yeah,
for me, it just comes down to Wild Peaks. Well,
one, they don't have a skinny 35, and I'm specifically
trying to get skinny 35s, which is why the Patagonias
are so high on my list, because they have, like,
a 275 80 -17, which is a pretty skinny 35. Yeah,
pizza cutters are nice. I like pizza cutters.
They're not quite pizza cutter. They're not quite
that skinny. I want a little bit more depth because
I still want to be able to do sand comfortably,
but... Yeah, I think, was it Tinkers? Tinkers
Off -Roaders? Tinkers on YouTube. He does an
analysis versus, you know, pizza cutters versus,
like, normal -sized tires. The amount of tread
that actually gets exposed when you air up and
air down. and pizza cutters do just as well as
normal tires uh if not a little better so so
i watched that i watched that same video and
he was sitting on asphalt when he did it and
on asphalt i agree 100 um but once you get in
something like that's loose sand Now you're not
just looking at, like, the normal low -end contact
patch. You're looking at the entire contact patch.
And a full -size tire is going to be better on
loose sand, period. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean,
you have more surface area. That's really what
it comes down to. You know, I'm not looking for,
like, a 13 -inch wide tire or anything because
I don't need that. But if I could get, like,
a 10 -inch tire over a 9 -inch, I'm going to
get the 10 -inch. Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah,
I mean, you're going from, if you think of it
in terms of, like, deep snow, you're going from
walking through the snow with your shoes versus
walking through the snow with snow shoes. Right.
That extra width actually does really account
for something in that kind of condition, but
I guess it really... If it wasn't for the fact
that I like to snow wheel and I like... It's
not that I like sand. I'm actually kind of against
the dunes. But I'd like the ability to go to
the dunes this year or next year. Yeah. Because
I can't right now. If I go on these cheap mud
trains I got, I'm just going to dig a hole. But
with my tire change, I want to open up all of
what Michigan has to offer to me, not just snow
wheeling and trails. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.
So, yeah, I think that's a good one. Mud terrains
still look the best, though. Oh, I mean, yeah,
they really do. I can't lie in saying that that
was part of my reasoning, of course, but at the
end of the day, my falcons still have some good
tread. They still look pretty meaty, and I'll
take that over my... It seems like I had almost
bald all terrains comparatively before, so it
was weird. I thought your other all terrains
were very bald. I mean, they were brand new still
at that point. What's funny is the difference
between... What brand were the old ones? There
were workhorse all -terrains. I can't remember.
I think you're Goodyear or one of those fat tiger
guys. But, you know, I mean, they were fine.
They did well in the sand and everything, but
when it came to mud, fuck, I was just out of
it. Wasn't doing nothing. Yeah. That was number
four. That was number three. That was a really
fun topic, and it really took off. I'm glad that
it did because tires are a very fun topic. Oh,
speaking of tires, so Tyler from Morphlate or
Tyler from Snail Trail, if you go to the Snail
Trail YouTube channel, which we'll link it in
the show notes, they just did an entire slideshow
on tire pressure. All that stuff. And it is a
really good listen or watch, however you want
to take that in. Yep. So, number four. Never
go off -roading alone. I think I go off -roading
alone more than you guys do, just because I'm
going around to these trails when I have free
time. I would say if you don't have a winch and
you're actually, I mean, if you're actually off
-roading, I would say it's, and you're not actually
prepared, you don't have a winch, you don't have
any recovery systems, which to me at that end
all be all would be a winch really. If you're
just doing service roads, go wheeling alone.
It's a blast. It's great to get out and be alone.
But if you're going down some harder trails with
some deep mud holes, no. have friends friends
are great yeah i see for me i i definitely agree
i i think i another i would say if you're solo
and you've never been down a trail uh and you
know the conditions are not favorable have friends
i yeah i would have friends and i have a good
example of this you know We probably spoke about
it on a podcast earlier, but I did that ghost
rescue a month or so ago, two couple months,
I don't know. Poor guy. Went down a trail that
was rated blue, which normally my truck would
be just fine handling, but we had some warm days,
some melt, and then they had some decent snow
accumulation over there covering most of the
trail, which... honestly it dulled the the ruts
you know it didn't make them look as deep didn't
make anything look as bad and i went down there
alone and got stuck and got stuck you know pretty
decently so i mean going solo you take your chances
like i said if you don't have the recovery equipment
for it then yeah i wouldn't chance it on neutrals
i think we beat this topic a lot around here
on our channel we we go through this topic a
lot number five friends are well i want to hold
on to that friends are always always better when
you're wheeling It's the shared experience. It's
the fun of going with other people. It's the
security of knowing if you break or if you get
stuck that you have others that you can rely
on. And it's a great way for you to somewhat
safely push yourself and learn and gain experience
without being stuck in the middle of nowhere
alone and figuring out yourself. I had Alex and
Mark help me quite a few times on things that
I wasn't necessarily comfortable with last summer.
They helped me learn, you know, they helped direct
me on certain lines that might be better than
others, and that helped me kind of determine
in the future what lines might be better. So,
I mean, when you're wheeling with friends, it
really does, and especially more experienced
friends like those two. It really does help to
kind of solidify your experience. When you wheel
alone, especially when you're newer at it, you
can make decisions that you might not know are
bad, but end up negatively. You don't know that
they're bad decisions until it's either too late
or you find out later on. Maybe if you're not
experienced on certain recovery techniques, things
can end badly. Snow wheeling should never be
done alone. No, 100%. Always have friends for
snow wheeling. I mean, snow wheeling, not only
do you have the potential to get stuck in any
surface, not just a mud pit, but you've got the
added problem where if you do get stuck, you're
very reliant on your vehicle's heat at that point,
unless you brought a spare heat source. tent
or whatever but let's say you get stuck somewhere
and it's going to be six hours before someone
gets to you that's a very terrible six hours
oh yeah and and and this is not to even mention
the ice yeah there are trails oh god there are
inclines that i've taken in the summer oh they
were fun but yeah i could not imagine going up
or down these super steep inclines this actual
parts of the trail in ice or snow situations
that vary you know there's a ravine on the right
and a tall wall on the left it one fuck up and
you're going into that ravine you got to be careful
except skitter hill that's more fun in the snow
have you guys seen i'm trying to remember it
was the group there's a group of these guys they're
all wheeling in the winter and this is just recent
um one of the jeeps misjudge where the edge of
the um ditch was and rode over oh yeah i actually
i think i did yeah it was on instagram it happens
uh like i when we were doing trails this summer
i marked that i i don't have that actually marked
on onyx but i marked it you know memory mentality
wise like hey if we do this trail in the winter
i'm not doing this part because you're you're
just begging for trouble i mean it's a it was
a steep incline it's like a uh you guys didn't
go with me on that one but it was a uh put your
lockers and four low on incline where is this
because it had it was um out by the cadillac
area i was during the the cryptid hunt so it
was by traverse city cadillac area and there
was a lot of like loose gravel and stuff and
even even with like low on i was crawling up
it and you could still feel like rocks being
like slid out like it's just gravel it's not
like it was like anything crazy but you could
it was unsettling to look down and go oh yeah
that's fucking like 200 feet you know it was
uh maybe a slight exaggeration on on the storyteller's
part but you know still it was it was very steep
very quick And, yeah, snowy situations, absolutely.
Mark, do you remember that incline out by where
we went to rescue that boat in, I don't remember
where we were at, Bytely? No, not Baldwin. Bytely.
No, not Bytely. We were over by Twin Lakes. Yeah.
Yeah, Twin Lakes. Do you remember that big incline
on the back that I went up and around and, like,
slid all the way down it? Yeah, that was very
sketch. I thought we were going to roll for a
second. I'm trying to make the turn at the bottom
without hitting a tree. I did that. I did that
with you. I remember when we went back that way.
Yeah. We went back and revisited our crime scene,
and I went over and I took that same trail, did
it, and thankfully did not slide into the tree
that was right in front of me. But it was that
kind of incline. It was a little bit better than
that. But still, I mean, you would not want to
chance that with ice. And it was long, too. It
was a good little bit there. So number five,
lower tire pressure always means better traction.
I think when it comes to sand, that's accurate.
To an extent. Well, what situation does lowering
your tire pressure not give you better traction?
Yeah. When you lower it too much. And you end
up de -beading the tire. And you don't fill it
back up. I should have re -aired up. Let's put
this in a perfect world, right? You're on a set
of tires with bead locks that have absolutely
no possible way of de -beading. Yep. What situation
would airing down not give you better traction?
I can't think of anything. On the road. He said
Zach. That's the only thing. Well, you're going
to have better traction on the road, too. You're
just not going to want to go fast. No, you don't
want to go fast at all. Well, I mean, the amount
of sway that you get from being at, like, 5 PSI
would not be great. Well, it's fine if you're
going, like, 10, because I don't go over 20 when
I'm down. Well, yeah, 10. But that's what I'm
saying. Yeah, when I lean off. Like, what situation?
Because ice is better with air down tires, right?
Yeah, I mean, like we were talking about earlier.
Yeah. Yeah, you have more surface area, so there's
not really... I don't think there's really an
area where that would not... Boost in, email
in, do whatever. Somehow tell me the situation
where you have worse traction when you're aired
down. Because I think that Chat Jippity missed
the mark on this one. Is mud bad for being aired
down, or is that the same? I'm trying to remember.
Which one? Mud. I think mud is better aired down,
too. That's the only one I can think of. I think
there's an extent. Because if you're aired up
on mud, then your tires go deeper into it, which
gives you more chance of getting hung up. Whereas
if you're aired down, you've got a wire contact
patch, and you flow over more of the mud. But
you have a better chance of being hung up on
your axle. I think you have a better chance of
being hung up on your axle when you're aired
up because your tires dig deeper into the mud
that way. Yeah. Fair. I'm thinking of it from
the fact that it lowers you slightly. I would
say an inch or so. There have been times where
we were climbing up on that poker run where I'm
like, I feel like I would have cleared that normally.
But once you start sinking, you're going to sink
farther aired up than you would aired down. Oh,
so you probably. I agree. Yeah. I will say that
one hill climb that I had to air down from where
I was at, I was at 20 originally. I could not
climb that. And, yeah, airing down to 10 was
a little excessive. But it was a world of difference
climbing up that hill. All right. Well, one second.
We got a doggo interrupting us. Hey, guys, go
away. Go on. Get out of here. All right, so we'll
just move on. Number six, automatic transmissions
are bad for off -roading. Yeah, that's a myth.
Very much so. I feel like we don't have to talk
too much. Yeah, we don't have to talk too much
on this one because it's pretty obvious. Manuals
are inherently better off -roading, but automatics
aren't bad, especially more modern automatics.
I'd say... like 99 and up if you're trying to
wheel with a 70s automatic c6 ford c6s aren't
the best off -roading choice but the e40d was
fine say what's in my toyota whatever the hell
it is because i don't know it's fine yeah sometimes
i'd rather be in a different gear than it gives
me but like it's not bad i think the only only
way that i could say that this would be worse
is that automatics and snowmobile transmissions
just don't work what is that cvt oh yeah cvts
yeah i mean it's just not ideal for off -roading
so they mean that would i guess be the only because
i don't they don't make manual cvts do they no
because the way cvt works is it's basically a
drum a cone -shaped drum and there's a band that
moves up the drum as it speeds up right right
Yeah, and that's why I call it snowmobile, because
that's what I've always compared them to. But,
yeah, I mean, in that case, I would not say so.
I feel like, is it true with those that you have
a longer time before your transmission actually...
like gets to what you want it to you know what
i'm saying like yeah well the reaction time between
an automatic and manual versus like a cvt well
a cvt doesn't have a shift it's just a band moving
so you have cvts are weird voodoo magic goes
in one end voodoo magic comes out the other end
and then the car moves i I know enough about
CVTs to say that I would hate them in any situation
where I actually had to use them. But if I was
just using it to drive from like a paved house
to a paved work, it'd be fine. Yeah. Does that,
I'm just in that, I'm just thinking from, does
it cut down reaction time of like the trans,
you know, I know it's not the transmission, but
from that to wheels. Does it cut down reaction
time? Or maybe because there is no shifting,
it's always constant. Is Sienna CRV a CVT? It
is. So you probably have more experience in a
CVT than me, because I think I've been in one
once in my life. So I couldn't tell you. Hmm.
I mean, in... I mean, I don't know. There's a
couple different theories I guess I could go
around with this, but I don't know enough about
it to speak on it. I think we all agree that
automatics are plenty fine for off -roading.
Especially if they have low gears and everything.
I'm not going to say they're better than manuals
because they're not. I prefer a manual when I'm
wheeling because I can... physically tell that
transmission exactly where I want it to go. Plus,
if something happens and my starter goes out,
I can always still start the vehicle. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, and I'm personally more comfortable in
an automatic because, one, I don't want my hand
on the fucking shift knob while I'm talking and
at the same time trying to steer. It's just I
don't have enough hands. I don't have the hand
-eye coordination to make sure everything's going
right. at the same time okay on that topic gavin
how have you ever owned your own manual how many
miles yeah i had one how many miles have you
put into a manual oh god i don't even know because
i've probably got like two or three hundred thousand
miles okay more than that probably like i would
say probably closer to five hundred thousand
miles behind a manual I would say probably 10
,000. I had one car with a manual. I had a bike
with a manual. And then tractors. I had an old
Ferg. I mean, I drive manual tractors every day,
but I don't really count those. It counts. There's
a clutch. But, you know, almost every vehicle
I've ever owned was a manual. Aside from, I think,
out of the 45 vehicles I've had, I think, like,
12 of them were automatics. Yeah, I mean, if
you're used to it, that's one thing. I would
say with me not being inherently used to it and
then having the amount of experience that I have
in automatics, switching straight to a manual
right now would be like a disaster. I could be,
especially when I had my 442 going, I could be
driving down the road, talking on the phone with
one hand, eating a... eating fast food from McDonald's
and still make my shifts. Like, I mean, you know,
I've got a lot of time behind the wheel of a
manual. So just that, I mean, that's probably
why we have such different answers here because
yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't, I just can't imagine
doing like an incline and cool, like just trying
to like control your clutch, not stall out. uh
climbing up something you know steep let's say
like a rock but at the same time you're trying
to pick your line your buddy's talking to you
on the walk you talk you know and you're trying
to talk back i'm like there's a lot of shit going
on i must say i think for the most part really
because i mean it's like me where i mainly shift
my into a lower gear because i know i need that
gear setting for that climb so that point is
just you knowing what you need for certain obstacles
based off of experiences. And then on top of
that, with a manual, a lot of times if you're
wheeling with a manual, you're going to have
what's called a granny gear, and you could literally
put it in the granny gear, drop the clutch, and
that vehicle's going to move. Like, it will not
stall. Like, my CJ dude, I could put that thing
in first. I didn't even have to. Well, I mean,
I had to press the clutch in, I guess. But it
didn't matter. That thing was basically impossible
to stall in first gear. Right. Yeah, that's my
main concern on it. But again, yeah, like you
said, it would mostly play down to experience.
But yes, moving on. Number seven, a winch will
get you out of anything. No, no, no. Not quite.
I mean, if I'm buried to my frame, I'm looking
at like 20 ,000 pounds of pressure, and my 10
,000 -pound winch is not getting me out of that.
it might help it'll help it'll help a little
bit yeah i mean i mean let me let me ask this
then with that and then proper use of maintenance
no no no like uh i'm trying to think of it like
pulleys proper use of pulleys to double the double
your strength when you're you know using it right
you use a pulley um to double it back right I'm
trying to remember exactly how to explain this.
Yeah, so if you use a double back, that'd help
a lot. So, like, you get a lot more out of it.
And is it going to help you out the most? Absolutely.
But, I mean, not even thinking about frame rails,
if you get stuck in the sand, you get stuck in
a place where you don't have any kind of winch
point to, yeah, you're just stuck. They make
land anchors, but land anchors are pretty big,
and most, if not all, people don't carry those.
That's when you want to be wheeling with a buddy,
because then you always have an anchor point.
Right. Or a buddy who could just carry your land
anchor for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just get
a buddy with a Tacoma or a full -size truck to
put the land anchor in their bed. Yep. Or put
it on their roof and have a... Nice little third
-gen land anchor. Oh, man. Rooftop land anchor.
Deployable off the back. RTLAs. Is that a button
ejecto -cito? RTLAs, the newest fad. It's almost
better than rooftop wheelbarrows. You got to
make it, like, spring -activated so you press
a button and it just launches the land anchor
out behind you. All right, number eight. More
horsepower means a better off -road vehicle.
I don't know. After watching the freaking rock
crawler just hammering it out and not getting
anywhere? It depends. Because if you're looking
for a dune runner, more horsepower, way better.
If you're looking for a rock crawler, hell, I've
seen rock crawlers that are powered by lawnmower
engines and just super geared down from there.
There's a reason that the 22RE is one of, like,
the most sought -out engines to put in a rock
crawler. They don't need a lot of power. They
just need torque. Yeah, we're thinking all around
here. Off -road, all around, I would say yes.
I mean, yes, if we try to specific it, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yes, there are places. The thing
is about having, you don't have to use that horsepower.
I still think that torque, torque is the more
important number there. Horsepower. Oh, I mean.
Horsepower is only good for speed. Torque is
what you really need off road. Yeah. Agreed.
I would say this more of a generality. I'm just
making up words here. But if you have more horse.
the chances that you have more torque are pretty
decent. But at the same time, more horsepower
tends to mean more engine weight, which then
makes it worse for other reasons. Like, I really
want to say yes, more horsepower is always better.
But really, even generally, somewhere in the
middle is probably your best bet. I mean... Yeah,
I mean, yeah. Yeah. An 800 -horse truck probably
doesn't need that. When I get my upcoming vehicle
that I'm looking at in June, July time, then
we'll do some real -world testing and find out.
So I'm going to use an example. I can't remember
the channel, and if I do, we'll link it or put
it in there. I want to say it was three days
of hell or something like that. Oh, yeah, those
guys are great. Yeah, they take their, there
was one, it was like a supercharged LS Jeep,
and he was not getting up that damn rock. And
he sat there and got his tires hot as fuck, nice
and sticky, and then just fucking bombed that
rock and got up it. And I'm like, yeah, okay,
horsepower might help here. And there are times
in mud where horsepower does kind of help you
get through the initial parts of it. But once
you're in the mud, horsepower probably isn't
your friend. Same thing with sand. It'll help
you get across the sand. It's when you lose that
momentum that horsepower does not help. See,
I don't know. I don't know. I can't say that
horsepower means a better off -road vehicle.
I don't think so. But. On that note, number nine,
you need a snorkel to cross deep water. What's
deep? That is a good question. That's a good
question. And the next thing is you don't necessarily
need a snorkel. You just need a way to keep your
intake dry. But you also need your intake to
be sealed all the way from the point where it
starts taking in air to the point that it goes
into your engine. Because if you've got a snorkel,
but it's got some kind of hole somewhere between
the snorkel and the truck's actual intake. You're
still going to suck in water. Well, let's use
perfect world, completely sealed snorkel and
intake versus just a typical. I mean, it also
depends on vehicle. I mean, like with my FJ,
my air box is very high up. So for most. I don't
know about your intake. If the intake's like
mine, it's just barely above the wheel. Yeah.
Well, that is higher than most. Depending on
what you're crossing. Compare that to the Trailhawk,
where the intake is way low. Yeah, that's what
I mean. They did that on purpose. I can't say...
I was about to say, I think Connor's hole in
my truck was a bit sketched to do. I technically
should have had that. moved at some point or
move at a higher point than what we did at that
i mean we definitely got your filter wet that
trip yep so so i would i would say i would say
yes and i'm only saying yes because having it
is better than not that much more of it yeah
i mean it is i mean If you end up – so there's
that trail in Lake Superior on that trail up
in the UP that gets like five feet of water almost.
Was it four or five feet of water? You're not
getting through that if you don't have a snorkel.
And even if you do have a snorkel, you're not
going to easily get through that. But, I mean,
the comparative, I mean, you're either not doing
it or you're maybe going to do it. Do you want
to flood your engine? Let's do number 10, and
this will be our last one, and then we'll get
into some housekeeping stuff. I had one more
thing about snorkel. I got something I want to
try. I know I brought it up to you before, Alex.
I want to move my intake into the cowl. I think
it's a good idea. I kind of find out a lot of
Jeeps do that. Yep. I think it's a good idea.
You say cowl. Where the windshield wipers are
for your air intake for your cab. Yep. So, yeah.
Yeah, as long as you have no water over your
hood, you should be good. Just do what they do
in mud trucks and move it inside the cab of the
vehicle. Throw it right through the dash. Dude,
I've seen mud trucks where it literally comes
through the dash and sits in the middle between
the passenger and driver. yeah i mean there's
there's a snorkel upgrade for the fj that brings
it to the cowl yeah but at that point i'm like
does it i mean is it really gonna it's like i
don't know probably four or five inches higher
it's a big difference where the intake it's a
big difference it's a big difference because
uh with it being right in your tire just driving
through water is gonna throw or we'll throw water
up into it yep so it doesn't even necessarily
no no yeah Like, I mean, I get that. Let's say,
I'm more speaking from the, if I was to seal
my intake, make sure everything was nice and
sealed today, and where it currently sits at
versus where that cowl one does, I feel like
it's only a few inches. of that extra like i
it's not so much about the height as moving it
from where it is because with it being in your
wheel well like i said a small two inch puddle
could waterlog your engine if you hit a two inch
puddle fast enough you're gonna throw water right
into the intake and boom she's done oh yeah right
so but We'll do number 10 real quick. This will
be the last one we do today, and we've got 10
more, so we may as well do it again in the future.
So, number 10. You need to mod your rig before
hitting the trails. No. I think the only mod,
even though it's not technically a mod, would
be tires, mostly. I wouldn't say that, yeah.
Even factory tires on most rigs, just get out
and do it. True, true, true. Because... As you're
doing it, you're going to find what needs upgraded.
Okay, I'm bombing through sand. I buried myself
because my tires suck. Next upgrade will be tires.
I forgot we wheeled with stock tires with my
Tacoma, the first Tacoma, with no issues. And
it did great. Yep. Yeah, I mean, all terrains.
I had stock all terrains on mine. Wait, we never.
At the end of the day. When did we wheel your
first Tacoma with? Stock tires. Literally like
the first weekend. I don't remember that. We
took it out to the prairie, or the power lines.
Oh, that's right. Before they closed off the
dip down and up. Because I had to wait and see
if Alan actually made it up with his Trailhawk
that weekend, too. Yeah, you're right. I remember
that now. I say, we put those Baja bosses on
that thing pretty quick. Yeah, we put it on just
before the seven -hour plane crash trail. Like,
I don't even think your truck was, I don't even
think you had it two months before we put those
tires on. Oh, 100%. It was a quick purchase.
Like, hey, we got this trip. I need tires. Yeah.
No, I mean, excluding tires, I think the answer
is no. Yeah. Yeah, you don't need anything. I
mean. If you just take tires out of it, because
I wouldn't really count. I don't know. Yes, it's
something added, but I don't know if I would
say a mod. Stock Lexus GX was doing plenty good.
I mean, plenty of stock vehicle heights, stock
cars can still go on trails, can still do, I
mean, most stock Jeeps. I mean, with your stock
alterings you get from the factory, you can still
do plenty. So, yeah, I mean, definitely don't.
Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I really am trying to
think of anything you absolutely have to do.
It's not necessarily a have to, but you should
have some form of communications in the vehicle
when you go out the first time. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Which I think is what we also did with that first
time. Yep. And if you don't, for some reason,
have a cell phone and you just carry a flip phone
around some form of navigation. Yeah. Yeah. As
someone who sits flip phone, someone who's in
that category, I definitely have a garment that
I use almost daily. Okay. Daily. Cause it's my
speedometer. Yeah, so, I mean, depending. If
you don't have a flip phone, then you have a
phone with navigation on it, then you're good.
That would be the only thing I could think of,
or some kind of communications. Yeah. Yeah, that's
about it. Do we have any housekeeping to do before
you do that? Housekeeping. Is there anything
we need to talk about? Oh, third gen weekend
is coming up. We're doing a third gen forerunner
weekend. It's kind of an annual thing that we
do as a group. I'm trying to remember the dates.
One second, I'm pulling it up. Sometime in April.
I made the event, and I cannot remember what
days it is. Yes, so April 25th through the 27th,
we'll be doing third gen camping weekend up in
Everett, Michigan. it will be a blast. It was
a blast last year, even though my 4Runner was
broken. I got an invite, even though I'm not
even a third -gen man. Well, you could just be
there, but you're not going to be posted publicly
about wheeling your vehicle if you even wheel
your vehicle. Yeah, if you want to come. If you
want to come, that's great. I'll have an alternate
campsite across the way for any vehicle that
isn't cool enough to be a third gen. We'll have
campfires and everything without you. It'll be
fun. That sounds fun to me. Hey, I'll be very
much Tacoma, so. No, I mean, oh, you guys have
Rocks and Valleys this weekend with Derek, right?
Yep, yep, yep. We're doing Rocks and Valleys.
It'll be last week. It'll be the weekend before
this comes out. Yeah. I'll be finalizing my navigation
setup. I'll be putting my skid plates on, finally.
I will be ordering a, well, I already did, but
a new phone holder. Nice. Nice. Which one did
you get? I got one from Amazon, and it was a
little bit more expensive. It's not the bullet
point one. It's, I don't know, it was like Streg
or something. I don't even know how to say the
name. Off -roam makes the best phone holder.
Oh, 100%. Yeah, I was looking at them, too, and
I was just like, man, the price. It's worth the
price. I get it, but still, I was like... It
held my phone in a rollover. I have to go looking
for my phone. I don't plan to roll over, so I
don't need to worry about that. I figured out
where his phone went the one time when we rolled.
It's called STRG. It's like Strig, I guess. It
kind of mimics the X -style ones that when you
put them in, it kind of retains. I get really
tired because I pull my phone in and out of my
holder when I'm getting it out of my truck. I
have one that clamps, and the ones that spring
clamp are just kind of annoying to try to rip
my phone out of every time. They hold it, but
when I'm trying to stop and take a look at maps
or something, I don't really want to have to
fight my phone holder. The spring clamp ones
that I had before were so damn strong that it
almost ripped my... case off my phone trying
to pull them out so i was just looking for something
that's easy to throw in easy to get out that
mounts onto my bracket i already have on there
so let's we'll see the the off -room ones are
nice because they're spring -loaded but they
slide to one side easily enough so you just kind
of push it that way and it comes right out right
it's Most of the spring -mounted ones like that,
I cannot stand because it's a pain in the butt
to get stuff out, but I don't see that with the
off -roam. Are they the magnetic ones? No, no,
they're still spring -loaded ones. Oh, okay.
I love MagSafe mounts. That is the way to go
for a phone, but for a Zune, it doesn't work.
I can't see them now. I was just looking at them.
Yeah, that's kind of similar to what I had before.
See, and I've used a lot of them that way, and
I hate them because it's a fight to get your
phone out. But it's not like that with the off
-roam. No. I don't know what they do different,
but the off -roam is not hard to get your phone
in and out of. But I have a X -mount, kind of
like the STRG, and I absolutely hate getting
my... tablet in and out of that i actually got
rid of it and went more to the spring style which
i also hate getting my tablet in and out of because
it is a lot harder than the off room it is garbage
yeah yeah we'll see i for me i had to get my
it was nice with my other case that i had um
where i could just slide my phone through the
top of it and then just pull it out through the
top But with a different case, you know, with
just the thicker cases and stuff, it doesn't
slide out. So I have to adjust the knob every
time. Now, the best way to hold it is MagSafe.
You get MagSafe, you get a MagSafe adapter for
an Android phone or an iPhone. Either way, I'd
put a MagSafe adapter. It more than doubles the
magnet strength than what the factory magnet
is. And I use that with my tablet through all
of... Drummond Island, and the only reason my
tablet ever fell was because my dog's big -ass
head hit it a couple times. Yep. Makes sense,
for sure. I have a kid, so his big -ass head
would probably hit it too. If your kid is sitting
on your dashboard, I think you've got other problems.
Yeah, I don't know if you've had a one -year
-old before, but they're definitely dashboard
puppies. Nope, I definitely wouldn't. Or they
try to yank your steering wheel while you're
trying to wheel. I definitely went from no kids
to a three -year -old, so I have not had that
experience. It's not fun. It's not fun when they
don't understand that this could really fuck
up your day. But, yeah, on that note, this was...
I kind of like this chat jippity topic here.
This was kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun.
We'll do some more of it, and we'll see. On that
note, we'll talk to you guys later. Later. Yep,
later.