Welcome to botches off-road join us as we talk about everything from gear reviews to trail stories
tank camping to rock landing and all things to do with the outdoors today's just kind of a quick
and dirty another recap if you will about the meeting for marble head up in Drummond Island
we've got Derek vs Pro from mitten state tours and Joe Yamber do you want to be from mitten state
tours are you from something else okay Joe Yamber from mitten state tours they've got a lot of
background about the whole marble head situation and they've got some pretty interesting takes
that will really add to your knowledge on it so how you guys doing good how are you yeah Alex
thanks for having us yeah thanks it's always a pleasure always a pleasure so she probably
should have brushed up on what we talked about when I was on with Duncan but what was your take
on the meeting do you feel like things will change or do you think it's just gonna be more
of the same Derek do you want to go first yeah I was on the whole time until like the very end
where I had to get going for work but I think I barely missed any of it seemed like they were
wrapping up but so at first they were trying to like not even talk about it and then they were
talking about their plans and enhance they said enhancements and then I chimed in also that's
what you call it and then that kind of spiraled into the marble head discussion now there were
two ladies I think one of them was Christie and I can't remember the other one's name but Christy
seemed to be the one who was the most knowledgeable on the events that actually took place and
she had mentioned that they knew that they were going back there with heavy equipment huh
Christie and Amy Amy okay so Christie had mentioned that she knew they were going back
with heavy equipment to move boulders in front of the steps now she had mentioned that they knew
that the mini steps were going to be demolished to get the equipment up there and I had brought up
well if you look at the path that they cleared in order to get the equipment down on the actual
steps of marble head the entirety of the mini steps didn't need to be demolished it was unnecessary
so then they claimed they had no knowledge of the steps being taken taken away but here's where and
and I didn't think of it at the time you know the hindsight's 2020 but how did they know like they
knew the many steps right had to be demolished to get equipment how did they not know that the
actual steps were gonna have to be addressed as well if the mini steps had to be done right like
how the steps are way bigger than the how did they plan on getting the equipment down if they knew
the mini steps are a problem how were the big steps not gonna be a problem so they're claiming
that they've been blindsided and all this stuff and screwed over by the DNR but when you think
about it they signed off on the mini steps being taken away how did they not know that the big steps
were gonna be a problem too and then and the former there was another guy in there I can't
remember his name I can't remember any of their names but he kind of was in charge of it for a
while and then it seemed like he retired and kind of handed it off but he's still active enough and
he claimed he had no knowledge of the mini steps either he said they weren't supposed to be touched
and then that's when I pointed out well wait a minute Christie said ten minutes ago that they
were so to me it seems like there was a lot of there they know they they know more than they're
saying yeah and I and I don't see how you could have possibly known about the mini steps and not
the big steps at the same time it's it's it makes no sense so going forward if you can't get up the
mini if you can't get up the mini steps you're not getting down the big steps yeah so going
forward it sounds like they want to have a more open discussion about these types of things and
because they they opened they opened themselves into a huge can of worms and the the backlash
and everything that they've received from the off-road community is is is well deserved in
my opinion yeah sure the DNR is the one that actually went back there with the equipment and
said hey dude X Y & Z but I don't know they were the ones that requested the boulders get placed
in front of the cliff so people can't drive down there and I mean I mean maybe they didn't know
like what that actually entailed but it I mean if you're if you're the president of the Drummond
Island off-road club and you know that they're going back there with heavy equipment and they
have to deal with obstacles wouldn't you be back there to watch and have a say in what they do
you're supposed to be back there yeah supposed to be back to to protect these trails and manage them
yet you just just don't have you have zero cares about them going back there unsupervised but with
the bulldozer is just insane to me anyway that that's what they're I'll let Derek go on from
I'd add some background on that actually when we talk about the Drummond Island off-road club
there is no such thing currently as the Drummond Island off-road club the Drummond Island off-road
club is a shell of a club it's operated by the Drummond Island Tourism Association it's
completely and wholly controlled by Drummond Island Tourism Association or DITA now DITA is
not made up of off-road enthusiasts and that was pretty obvious during the meeting so we had
conversations with with them during the meeting where it became very apparent they're well out
of their depth they do not understand the off-road community and essentially they're going off of
their their trail master whoever's helping with these grants is a snowmobile groomer who operates
the groomer up there yes he drives on the trails but it doesn't seem like he's an actual enthusiast
it just seems like he's an island enthusiast and there just happens to be trails and snowmobile
trails there um so my my opinion of the group right now is they're hopelessly um they're they're
hopelessly kind of outmatched by what they you know what their mission should be they're not
off-road enthusiasts they don't understand the community they don't know who the community is
right and they they don't have the first idea of who to reach out to or how to respond to you know
these specific issues that the off-road community has brought up because to them they don't conceive
of this as being an issue right they hear hey we can get a grant from the DNR to smooth out these
trails oh that's good because people will be able to drive on them it's off-road they view that as
being acceptable to the off-road community well the reason they view it that way is because they're
not they're not off-roaders they don't overland they're not anything besides people who live on
the island who occasionally use the trails to get out some place for photography or a picnic or
something like that they're not out there because they enjoy the difficulty of the challenge um so
that's that's background on the German Island Off-Road Club and they have someone who works
with the DNR writing grants right so what that is is the DNR has got a certain amount of money
and you can apply for it if you've got a club or something like that with some sort of authority
over the area such as German Island Tourism Association so yes I fully expect that at some
point when all the FOIA requests go through and get returned that yes German Island Off-Road Club
as a part of German Island Tourism Association um absolutely signed off on this they assumed that
the the operators both knew what they were doing and also that it was something that the community
would appreciate which is why they you know initially had you know no response for why people
were upset so I think you know that's the important background on German Island Tourism
Association and German Island Off-Road Club. Looking into the future they're supposed to
hold board elections this year so German Island Tourism Association is is in the charter for
German Island Off-Road Club is to operate it for one year and at the end of that time period
they're supposed to hold elections for the board well what we don't have is a clear path to membership
for the German Island Off-Road Club so we don't know how do we join the German Island Off-Road
Club so that we can have voting rights to vote in people we want for the board that's not clear
and when I asked for clarity on that I got a promise to uh get back to you um they haven't
gotten back to me yet. You it'd be nice if they could model it kind of off uh the same path as
like Friends of the Rubicon or uh the Rubicon Trail Foundation where you don't you know there's
a whole group of people around protecting the trails on the island and they can be from anywhere
in the state and be part of the the whole program but I just I think that the German Island Tourist
uh what do they call themselves Dita or whatever I think they're gonna have a hard time handing
over the reins like that. My prediction is that as well I and this is this is purely off of of
feelings and vibes okay this isn't based off of anything that I have information on or even
conversations with people who know my my feelings and vibes is that the locals do not like the side
by side community they confuse it with the broader off-road community lump us in together we're the
side by sides side by sides are drunks they're loud and annoying and they're driving way too fast
so the locals are fed up with it they don't care right they're they're over it they went they moved
to German because it's their little quiet place in the up which is fine but that's
you can have your quiet place in the up on your own private property
German is something special for all Michiganers and the broader off-road community
so I think what's happening is is because the board is comprised compute purely of the German
Island Tourism Association members who live on the island are friends with other islanders
and are influenced by those people I think their decisions are going to continue to be anti-off-road
community um until we start to both a hold them accountable and then b get elected to that board
so that we can start making sure that these kind of dog shit decisions aren't made anymore
right yeah I I mean those are all valid points um
yeah I I just can't I can't imagine a world where anyone on the island would think it's a good idea
to destroy the steps like the steps themselves even if they weren't a off-road destination
they were beautiful on their own yeah so I mean I feel like yeah and then Joe you can
you can probably talk more about this but I don't think they care that much
care that much no so the the older gentleman who had uh ran or supervised the club or whatever
and then retired he he was saying that you know he was a jeeper his grandfather started jeeping
on Drummond Island I mean he's he's he's been doing it his whole life is and he's passed it
down to his his generations after him and uh he was really upset like you could tell how upset he
was uh given the the circumstances of everything that happened and it's too bad that there aren't
more of him around to uh kind of hold the key and and keep an eye on things so if they are going to
keep their current uh management structure I don't see things working out very well and they they
need to keep in mind that that's not their land it's just as much as the downstate people's land
is theirs it's state land and you know I think uh I think getting some of uh some of us on the board
would be a great thing and I mean you know if if we have to I'll drive four and a half hours up there
to to to just help preserve it for future people to come I mean it's I went there I think four or
five times last year and I went with my family in August I had a great time just us and the very
last day my wife was kind of over it blah blah blah like oh let's take one more ride we'll go it's
it's raining we don't want to pack up in the rain anyway so let's just go for a little
cruise and we ended up at marble head played around for a little bit took a nice family photo
on the steps and that following week is when we had the news of what happened and you know it's
it's such a it was such for for me it was just such a a big blow to my heart you know it it
Drummond Island was a very special place and then there's a lot of people now
who never want to go back and I mean I could see it I I feel for them and they you know I
I personally plan on going back I I still think that it's beautiful there the trails are great
I mean for now and I think the people up there the majority of them had nothing to do with it so
people are going you know well let's not give them our money let's not give them our business well
the sweet lady at the gift shop didn't come out there with an excavator she didn't bolt out those
those steps you know what I mean the people who run the northwood or or pins you know they're
they're they're not the ones behind us and it's in it you know part of it too is like what what
else in driving distance is is close enough to be worth it you know we don't have we have we can go
to Kentucky we could go to the keven off which is double double or triple the distance and the
wheeling is not even as good we got bad lines yeah I mean that's what I'm saying but like natural
occurring features you know like there's not a whole lot here and Drummond Island was really
special in that regard like there wasn't anything else nearby that's even close so I'm not sure
that they they realized at the time what they were actually doing you know they they saw it as an
end to you know a means to an end as far as getting that equipment down there and in the boulders
that they place nobody else talks about this like my xj on 33s could crawl over them no problem
you know it's not like they they did they did anything that permanent like anybody
anybody four beers deep and and a and a shitty build can get over them you know what I mean
you know what I mean and I'm not saying they should but it's you know it's just they they could have
I don't want to really get into like what they could have done or should have done but
they could have taken some that turn into well they could have taken some trees and and stacked
up a bunch of logs over in front of it and kind of made a little fence and that would have probably
been more successful I don't know I mean they did that um our local area we used to play and called
the prairie they did that around the entire racetrack blocked it all off and no one can get
back there in anything now I mean it's a 10 foot high fence of trees and sticks you can't get
through it and yeah I don't know it's just to me their whole uh destruction in the name of
preservation thing is just so hypocritical I even I even brought that up in the meeting I said you
know it's hard for people to come to your island and take the the principle of tread lightly
seriously when you guys are going out there with heavy equipment bulldozing you know natural rock
features and then just tossing the remnants over in the tree line and uh just saying fuck it let's
go get a beer you know at that point like it's it's it's just yeah not testing that one they
especially seem to have a problem it was done they didn't seem to understand why that was so bad
you've got a pile of rock that's what 15 20 tons of rock that they didn't leave on the trail or
off the side of it they pushed it straight into the woods that supposedly like hey you guys can't
go off trail but we can put push right 15 tons of rock into the woods that you're never going to
get trees growing up for that in the next you know 15 years 20 years so it's really annoying to hear
them say oh we can't do a bypass and then yeah the same destructive effect of making a bypass like
so that that's the really frustrating part and you know some of the concerns looking forward um I
highly encourage and I'll post it on MST again they uh German Island Off-Road Club posted a map of
future projects right and a lot of the future projects they look pretty good I think they're
the yellow pens are what they're working on um a lot of them is on the atv trails and it looks like
stuff that needs to be done right like a uh the grading on a bridge needs to be redone because
the the bridge is either sunken or or uh you know the ground is sunk around the bridge with
you know there's a foot gap to get on the bridge that's good work right but then they start talking
about tank traps and um the walker trail the walker trail and the walker trail you don't
need to go down that like there's no reason to go down unless you want to go down the walker trail
it runs parallel it runs parallel with the road that kind of just is on the there's like the main
road and then there's like trails that kind of right yeah looping out of it and there's there's
no there's no access accessibility issues with with the walker trail it's it's stupid yeah so the
the frustrating thing with this is because they're not off-roaders they believe that hey there's water
on the trail that could be dangerous we need to we need to fix that well no signage can solve this
problem right people can take personal accountability right the sign says hey water can be three or four
foot deep right do not continue unless you're able to handle that that that solves the issue
right then and there so you don't have people surprised by that um they could just post the
picture of my forerunner nose deep uh and just say hey here's a warning well they i mean i know
that was south south actually was uh addressed too um that used to be pretty much like you know how
like when you go back obviously we didn't see this in april because it was completely underwater but
if you go in june right there's that middle section that you can kind of snake your way
through all the really sketchy stuff back there and uh that used to not be there that that was all
sketchy territory until they went back there and enhanced it so
yeah there's a lot there's a lot of other things too like you remember um that section that goes
around connor's hole uh that was all yeah they they blasted that they used to have like yeah i
yeah i know what that looked like beforehand and that i was really excited to play in that section
and then it was just gone yeah got up there so i i think going forward guys what can you do if
you listen to this and you're still upset about it what can you do um apparently the second tuesday
of every month they are meeting i am now on the email chain for the german island off-road club
community or whatever so i'll be posting that on menton state tours michigan overlands whatever
that meeting happens i'll be posting that along with the map that they are the projects their
discussion discussing um so that you guys can tune in i will say i am encouraged by a couple things
right they seem easily influenced initially i don't know if they're going to listen but they
did seem i said hey as a as a makeup to the off-road community would you consider talking
to pj castor who's the dnr trails expert for the eastern
um who's who's not our favorite person because he's ultimately the one responsible for marble head
but i said yeah pj sucks sitar yeah i'm not going to say anything personal about
um but i said please consider talking to the dnr and opening up some of these atv trails that are
really wide enough to drive a vehicle on like you go down there and when you look and oh that's the
atv trail and it's like is it though like so i so i asked him i said go back to your dnr buddy
and say these trails are already wide enough like open them up to vehicle usage so that more people
can enjoy the rugged parts of the island right if we're talking about accessibility
right right i mean there's got to be accessible what if i don't own a four-wheeler what if i only
own a truck so they were actually pretty pretty open to that idea and they the impression i got
is they thought that was a good idea so they they took that back and they included that they will
go ahead joe they wouldn't even have to they wouldn't even have to do any work if they did it
if they just opened it up and you know said you can drive on this now smaller trucks are naturally
going to go through it and it will just slowly open up and then you know they're going to be able to
go through it and it will just slowly widen for wider trucks yeah and i mean there's a couple
spots where there's bridges or swaps that would have to be addressed right you'd have to get a
grant to throw down uh you know whatever the you know an i-beam bridge that can handle a full-size
truck weight because there's i think there's two or three bridges that are right but those bridges
aren't just repair already you need to be replaced so why not why not prep that and have that ready
for full-size vehicles um they are working on so at the beginning of the year i believe i shared
of 2024 i shared the um a long poll or survey done by german island tourism association basically
saying hey here's what we want to see um everyone got a chance to do it from off-roaders to locals
to whatever um so they've been going through that list of ideas and remember some of them are angry
locals who basically say no off-roaders a lot of them were um responses from the off-road community
um they're going to start working on a few different things so better campsites for
dispersed camping so whether that means you know maybe leveling out like the spots that we stayed
or adding fire rings or going back there with a brush hog twice a year and brush hogging them
um they don't really have what that's defined as so we have an opportunity to go to these meetings
and define hey what does a better dispersed campsite look like um you know the suggestion
for trash cans at the trailheads that was one that i asked a lot of people to put in there a lot of
people did um and that's high on their list right is to get a dumpster or larger trash cans at trailheads
because we all know if you're picking up cans your trash bin is packed full by the end of a long day
right um and i don't i don't really want to carry somebody else's nasty beer cans around i'd like to
i'd like to pick them up but i don't want to carry them with me the whole trip so i did ask for that
and it does look like they're pretty enthusiastic about that idea um the last thing the go ahead
it'd be not it'd be nice it'd be nice if they they'd add either more bathrooms or wag bags they they
had because even if they had proposed adding uh adding us another one too i can't remember the
location because even if they just did you know maybe next every trash can they did a box of
wag bags or something just some way for people to be able to take care of it without all the
freaking white flowers everywhere yeah so they did talk about the uh outhouse situation um
this year i think they're trying to get a double outhouse at glen cove instead of the single um and
they're going to double the frequency of pumping on that so last year i think they pumped once a
month this year they're going to do it twice a month um so they got grants for that um then
they're also working on getting outhouses at the rest of the trailheads because i don't think all
of the trailheads have outhouses like pens i don't think has an outhouse is that correct
no it doesn't yeah you'd have to go into pens which isn't the end of the world because like
you stop in pens you grab a coke or a pepsi or whatever they have and some little swags it's
actually kind of a nice thing for pens because you get people stopping in and buying some stuff so
but they're they're working on outhouses there um and then also getting a outhouse out to um
fossil ledges that was on the list um that's a good spot yeah i need it there was uh there was
there was some waste i've seen there before and it's just i don't know i don't know why people can't
take care of their take care of their own crap man they just just leave it there and everybody
else is to look at it yeah i went crap there once but i at least buried mine i'm proud of you
so i guess going forward here's what i would say if this is a subject that interests you um you know
make time to attend the meetings read through the pre-brief which is the map that they post
and understand what they're talking about and then use this opportunity to influence them because
they it seems like they're looking for leadership or someone to tell them what to do because right
now they they don't know what they're doing and i think they understand they don't know what they're
doing i think they want to do what's right but they don't know what's right so get in there and
make your voice heard right yeah i i had mentioned um that if they're just pointing the finger at pj
costa and they had nothing to do with it that they need to have pj uh a part of one of their
meetings so we can direct our questions toward him and uh they they were open to trying to get
him to do that i mean whether he does or not i don't know but i think they're not going to hear
the end of the marblehead fiasco for quite some time uh especially looking back on everything
after the meeting and like like going over it in my head there's there's there's so many
indiscrepancies with their story and uh there are a lot of back and forth well you know well we didn't
know about this well actually yeah we did okay you know what i mean like it's only a matter of time
before they're just they're like yeah okay we knew about it like we had to get the equipment down
there somehow this was the only way we could think of how to do it and i i honestly i want to let them
up for it because there that wasn't the only way but you know whatever i'm gonna try and get in the
meeting this next coming month and one of the things i want to propose to them is i'd like these
meetings to be recorded and put on youtube or somewhere so that other people have a chance to
look back i mean i i recorded a portion of it and most of it was on the topic of marblehead and i
whether or not that was authorized i don't care but uh yeah i i post i just i'd like to see
for for ease of access or uh what's the word uh transparency i'd like to see the drummond
island off-road club do it on their own i don't want us to have to yes you know babysit them to
keep track of this bootleg copy of the drummond island off-road club meeting but i mean that's
what it was and i mean i'd even go as far as offering up a way to do it um you know helping
them get stuff set up because that's just to me that's such an important piece of this is that
everyone can see what's going on yeah yeah i think they're not i sorry go ahead oh i was gonna say
so i'm looking through my so i got the meeting minutes from amy um
so i'm just kind of looking through them and like everything that we talked about like they've got
in their minutes that they're going to kind of work on it they obviously don't have how um
you know the discussion around hey this is you know our anger i guess um but yeah so the meetings
will be held on the second monday of each month at 7 pm that's correct are you sure you're sure
it's monday second monday of each month at 7 pm all right because he said tuesday a little bit ago
so just trying to clear yeah i pulled up the email and checked gotcha so the next one would be march
11th yeah i think that sounds like i think going forward i mean just the way this was all handled
and how much hot water they got themselves into i think they're going to be very apprehensive about
doing i mean but the problem is the damage has already been done but i think they're going to be
very apprehensive about doing anything else especially on that that large of scale now
i would like to address with them what about the rest of the trail system that's become just a
seasonal dirt road now at this point then it wasn't two years ago like we didn't even we were so focused
on marble head that we didn't even bring that stuff up yeah like everybody was so hyper focused
on the marble head fiasco that we just kind of forgot about like the the section that goes around
connor's hole or just pretty much all the trails in general dude like in 2023 they it was littered
with basketball-sized boulders everywhere like slow crawling and you know nice and easy trail
you know you you weren't gonna fly you weren't gonna do derrick derrick stuff going through them
at 40 miles an hour because you would have blown your front at you know your front suspension out
real quick you know and now it's the side by side they that what's that saying well i was saying
they've opened it up for the side by side 60 miles an hour right you boil a pot with a frog in it and
he doesn't feel it till he dies or something like that but i'm not sure what they're slowly boil the
pot yeah i'm not sure where you're well they they slowly they slowly they slowly started taking
trails away until suddenly they destroyed marble head so before they started taking the trails
away so before no one really said anything they were just kind of like that sucks that sucks that
sucks well now i think they've hit that tipping point where people actually care now and they're
gonna pay attention yeah i mean derrick you remember in in 23 like it was just drastically
different than when we went back in 24 it's just insane how how much enhancing they did and the
is is that all they did was open it up for high speed side by sides to run through their 60 70
miles an hour and and and just the the booze buggies just let them they just let them fly
you know before they couldn't they weren't able to do that yeah so
on that note two things i noticed during the meeting so i did say why are we not requesting
more dnr supervision the response to that was there's two i guess there's only two fishing
game or wildlife officers in the eastern up so they're stretched thin which for me personally
i'm i don't feel too bad about that um you know i i prefer not to have them in my hair
but the uh you know i said hey you guys have a serious problem with reckless driving and with
drunk driving and uh they they they agreed with that but also i noticed a couple of the older guys
i don't think they want to stop the drunk driving on the island and right i i understand like hey
some of the guys like to crack a Coors light and have a course while they're on the have a
trail latte right i get that and it's like that's not what i'm talking about i'm talking about the
guys who've got six empties rolling around in their back seat and are obviously blindingly drunk
right like that's an issue um but it doesn't you know i think they paid lip service to that but i
don't think they're serious about actually stopping that and something bad is going to happen a side
by side is going to come flying in and meet you know six tons of american steel um or japanese
and or japanese yeah japanese well japanese would be like three tons right but um yeah there there's
going to be an accident and someone's going to die and it's a lot more is going to get shut down
so it's like they they need to start policing now before that happens so like that's something like
hey when you go to the meeting like talk about that talk about hey how do we control the side
by side speeds like should we put in some boulder-sized racks to keep them moving slower
like that we're already there right but i i think that at the end of the day right it comes down to
go to the meeting make sure you're heard be loud about hey we want a formal process for joining
the off-road club right because i don't want to get shut out in some sham election because nobody
was allowed to join the club um they didn't have formal membership roles right so i think those are
the things we need to be loud about is is one we want to get people friendly to us on the board
which means that they have to really define that membership process and who gets voting rights
and then two is is going in there and making sure that hey other people outside of the the data group
are looking at the projects and have are ready with not only criticism but solutions too so if
you don't like the way that they're doing something come to them with a solution because just telling
them this is a dogshit idea well guess what that's going to end up with they're going to do the dog
shit idea because you didn't have a better idea so come to them with come to them with a hey here's
how to do this better hey instead of dragging racks down to marble head why don't we just drill some
holes and put a fence post you could do that with a small piece of equipment or even by hand
right drill drill fence posts into the ground and then you don't have to worry about it for the next
15 years um so that's just put down some spikes right so so but the point is is is look at the
proposals and then come ready with with alternatives that that aren't you know stupid yeah right yeah
and that's that's that's the problem is that there was no transparency before any of this happened
it just happened and you know i i don't think that they they kind of were thinking about like hey this
is everybody's land not just ours this isn't just our island's land this is the whole state owns this
we pay tax we pay more taxes to own it than they do if you look at the grand scheme of the population
i mean you know and it i don't know the whole and then so this is something we could talk about the
whole pitman robinson uh act provisions tom craig the president of great lake four-wheel drive
association said that there's zero pitman robinson act land on drummond island so they
that was cited i believe in pj costa's response email so i'm not sure and then
said he's he he dug a lot into it and uh he's he's more knowledgeable than anybody honestly
um he probably would be somebody that could who could shed some more light on this than any derrick
or myself but um i'm sure he's a busy guy but anyway i had not even thought about reaching out
to tom but that's a really good idea tom craig yeah i can do that for i can do that for next
month yeah i can i can i've got some communications with him we talked after that meeting for a while
tom and i did um you know i'm generally sympathetic to what tom's trying to do i don't buy
that you know he pretty explicitly said that you know detail drummond island off-road club didn't
have anything to do with that that i don't buy but the rest of his um you know kind of the rest of
the stuff that you talked about i'm pretty on board with and i'll share some of that with you
alex so you can pop it up on your podcast page or i don't even know how to listen to a podcast what
do i do google podcast i'll help you on friday i'll help you on friday google podcast should work if
it's still around i think all right well i'll just i'll just google the word podcast and figure it
out from there yeah there's i mean the fountain app works spotify works i just always click the
links that you share and just listen to it that way let me that works too as long as gavin remembers
to make the links because he seems to be forgetting that lately where is gavin where are the other
botches bros uh gavin when we started gavin was still at work and mark is probably also still at
work um but yeah so i guess in summation uh they point the finger at the dnr they claimed to have
no knowledge of what was going on but they had knowledge of the equipment going back there and
the equipment needing to to to destroy the many steps to get back there but they claimed they had
no idea about the actual steps and get involved figure out how we can prevent these things from
happening in the future i'm not even going to name the features but there's still other things there
that are subject to enhancing and we don't want that to happen so we need to put the i saw some
of them and yeah well we need to put the pressure on like derek said clear path to membership
yep fair honest election for the board and solutions they have these projects in mind
if you don't agree with the way that they need that that they're going to approach it
think about a way to approach it better you know is yeah is the drummond island off-road club part
of the michigan uh the off-road association or whatever because isn't that made up by a bunch
of clubs no they're not part of great lakes four-wheel drive um they're they're literally
dude they are just a shell they are a website with no members behind it yeah there's no club events
it's all through dita the the people who run dita run german island it's uh it's just a mask worn
by german island tourism association that's literally all it is so they they want to change
that they want to change that supposedly but again let's see how these elections go
well and when you brought up the whole um the whole booze buggy problem they were they're like
well you know we want people to still have fun out there and and and not have to worry about
getting tickets but we want people to be safe and now when you think about that the people like you
said drummond island off-road club is dita these guys are the people that own the resorts they want
these because the side-by-side guys that go down there they don't camp they go stay at these resorts
you know what i mean they they want them to keep coming and i think maybe that's kind of part of
the whole angle that they're playing is that they're trying to make things more fun for the
side-by-side community because they're the ones that go down there and rent their their lodging
and everything like that and and eat all their meals at the bar like pins that whole resort and
stuff you know it's you'll see nothing but side by sides parked in the parking lot in the big
trailers and stuff across the street so it's kind of interesting now you think about it like that
uh i don't know maybe maybe there's more to it
yeah well on that note uh this was good there's a lot of information i didn't know there that we
could it's good for listeners to get to hear that um but definitely i think we need to find out what
the uh the route to access for drummond island off-road club is going to be because until we can
get people in there that actually care i don't see anything um do you want to talk about some
mitten state tours events coming up while we're while we're here for the listeners
you know what let's do so sunday this actually sorry this saturday mst range day we've got
uh the dog party that's uh march 15th joe and dirks uh birthday bash in valleys that's going
to be that's going to be lit 10 a.m yeah come on we rented the whole park out yep we're working
with west michigan off-road and the michigan bronco club yep um rigs and coffee kicks off sunday march
march 23rd the april 27th jesus it's already almost rigs and coffee time yep april 27th is rigs
um may 25th is rigs all right then we got an mst event may 31st through june 1st spring
shakedown come shake down your springs uh fox lake fuchs vex foch s licks i'm just trying to
mispronounce that i know you um how do you say it fox lakes fox lakes um yeah i didn't want to like
i didn't want to say it like that you know well i guess i already dropped a bomb on here um oh dude
we swear all the time on here you're good thursday june 5th through june 8th this is a big one mst
invades leatherwood leatherwood is kentucky's newest premier off-roading destination it should
be a blast make sure your rigs are ready though don't come down there with don't pull an alex
and come down there and have to put two quarts of gear oil in your in your rear diff and no spare
tire that was hey hey i didn't pop a tire i still your frame is held together by bailing wire and
uh at a stake you found on the side of the road no i was a rat he ratchet strapped the body to the
okay when he was there to be fair when we when we left for drummond island i knew that there was a
small hole in the back of my frame it was like penny sized by the like third day it was just the
whole frame was gone in the back yeah well so for leatherwood yeah we're gonna be eight nine hours
away have some spare parts you know have have a spare tires from spare parts and then i'll have
a trailer uh if worst case scenario i need a trailer you do a shop or something but i mean
you know these things can be prevented have some have some cheap rock auto ball joints
have some tie rods have some cv axles if you have solid axle have some you know spare axle shafts
oh you know on that note i'll drop it in the leatherwood chat we do have a spreadsheet
about spare parts to google doc um so people are contributing what spares they're bringing
with the hopes that you know if they break something you at least know who to go to
yeah you know who to go to and also that you can kind of plan better hey maybe i have six people
are bringing cvs maybe don't buy a cv maybe get a ball joint or something like that that and
tools there might be a good thing to add to the to the spreadsheet is what tools are the batches
are kind of tool trailer well you know like we're building a tool trailer like it just
when i went down to drummond for mst i brought the freaking kitchen sink with me man i had ball
joint presses front end dude suspension kits i had everything with me we're gonna we're gonna have
ball joint presses we're gonna have a shop press for changing uh wheel bearings everything um i mean
it's we're building a mobile shop i'm just saying you know it might be uh the batches are like i know
how to get invited to every exclusive event well you know what i mean though like it might be now
it might be good just to like know other people not everybody knows the botches bros you know
what i mean so like if you've got some new guy this is his first mst trip and he's wondering
what tools to bring he could have that even alex lists everything he's gonna bring that way they
know so anyway um after leatherwood we have spring kids camping that's uh june 20th of the 22nd up in
grayling friday july 18th western up exploration trip now these trips are always a lot of fun
um the wheeling isn't necessarily really technical but you get to you get really cool campsites and
uh it's a good it's always a good crew of people yeah a note on that one that one is going to fill
up really fast because like i'm not trying to drag 20 trucks behind me we've i've done that and uh
yeah it's it's just a challenge right so if i get once i get to 12 or 14 trucks i'm gonna ask for
volunteers and i'll drop you the south shore route that we did last year if you want to be a leader
you'll get the really cool campsites directions to the largest cave in michigan um that's pretty
well hidden um all the ruins that we explored um all that fun stuff you'll get basically a pre-made
awesome trip um that you can enjoy and i i think the route was pretty cool i mean a little more
pain yeah the thunderbolt the thunderbolt sweet thunderbolt was sick um but yeah so once that
fills up if somebody wants to lead another group i will drop you just a pre-made job
where basically you just have to download the gpx and uh herd some cats so then um yeah and if you
need i i obviously want to do the western uh up exploration with you but if you need another
group for that i'll be willing to lead that um i've already got you i also say i also should be able
to lead that if you need someone so we got uh august 9th through august 11th i'm gonna be
running a crew up to drummond uh we'll be doing the big uh the big campsite that we usually use
in august it probably will be pretty brushy but you know you just you get what you get
i think the first day that i is usually i go up thursday night um
i don't expect everyone to be able to pull that off but i friday is when we do our first smaller
trail ride when not everybody is showing up yet and we usually go back pick people up for marble
head at night the sunset marble head jamboree um but anyway i plan on doing the more technical
trails that are more time consuming friday as opposed to trying to run them with everybody
saturday uh last time we did that on saturday we did that on friday and then we did that again
saturday there were some people who weren't really ready for um that so they had to kind of wait for
us at the end of the trail and we had some vehicles that needed a lot of a lot of recovery in the
titan twisties and i kind of felt bad for the guys that were just waiting for us so we're going to do
more technical stuff friday uh saturday we'll do the marble head loop and then make our way
um through connor's hole and take the easy way i think to uh fossil then anyway after that we got
craig is leading a convoy up to the seven hour plane crash to core
friday september 12th through the 14th is the fall kids camping in grayling and that's all i have
that's all i have available on mst's uh um site i mean obviously there's rick's coffee sprinkled in
i just got a note um it's not live quite yet but menton state tours.com hopefully by this weekend
will be live for those who don't have facebook you'll be able to hell yeah you'll be able to see all
of our events um it'll be a space for um not only events but for all of our discount codes in one
place for um friends of mst so batches off-road it'll have links in there to uh you know our
friends podcasts our friends shops that we that we frequent products that we use so on and so forth
um so that that that is coming hopefully this weekend if corey's not too sick and can get that done
that is going to be sick i won't have to get on facebook all the time the website is also going to
trans uh is going to transition straight into the merch seamless yep like steve like steve jobs
would have done i kept saying yes all the time
anyway um yeah and then we've got some new hats that we're going to put out for mst pretty soon
uh the hats are sick like this hat's pretty cool but the ones that yammer's got are dope
yeah they're pretty cool i want to do um like a like a older retro style like trucker hat with
like a real thick rope with the mst hell yeah i think that would be sweet too i have to get my
mom working on that and my wife but um that's all i have for events uh if you're list if you're
listening i want to see a coon hat yeah the i don't know how we would press onto a coon hat but
plus like well yeah you'd have to do embroidery i mean obviously everybody's free to are to to buy
their own coon hats but you know i like to give them to people who i feel earn one like jd i gave
her a coon hat after she was a really good sport about being stuck in the titan twisties i i wasn't
going to bring her name up but she was the vehicle we had to recover quite quite frequently in titan
twisties and i gave her a coon hat after that because she was a really cool sport about it
she told us i thought the coon hat was for uh for the the flood support or the hurricane release
no no no when she came and dropped your trailer off at my house they hijacked my coon hat and
stole that's right held it for rant and held it for ransom i got mine back and then i gave her
a team you won uh for being a good sport about essentially having to wench like every 30 40 yards
but that's right she told us that story on her episode how many how many have you have you
interviewed uh you two and jd i think that i think you just need to start interviewing someone from
mst every night just like a 20 minute interview oh my god start with a good one to be that'd be a
that'd be a maybe double them up too like if you had uh like craig borland and casey wagner i mean
those guys are really really really knowledgeable um their rigs are super the ultimate the ultimate
showdown well they're so polar opposites on the spectrum you know and and it's it's it's yeah i
don't know i i but casey and casey's super knowledgeable he's been out west craig as well
i mean they're both they're both great guys to to pick their brains on things from yep i've been
wanting to get casey on i just haven't actually reached out because we always have something that
week coming up dude start doing like 20 minute mini episodes because like yeah you talk to people
like craig and casey who've done some really cool stuff um or like you can do a youtube episode with
like scott from trail expedition and then corey um you know that you can do a youtube like what
is youtube anyway yeah we're getting off topic here i'll bring it back in we're almost up to an
hour um yeah we're just about done jackson jackson rabar would be a good one to talk to too because
he's got a lot of knowledge as far as sure landing but he also has a lot of like knowledge as far as
like the inner workings of general motors which is pretty cool if you pick his brain on some of that
yep anyway yeah shout out shout out to all those there's lots of people shout out to all those
guys or mario he could he could talk to you for two hours about each and every one of his vehicles
he's got he's got more rigs than i do i think yeah he's got the oh we also uh we had patrick
kissman oh yeah all with that sick first gen yeah that forerunner sweet for sure i've never seen it
in person but it's not a forerunner it it's it's not even a it's not even a forerunner it's a truck
with a forerunner welded to the back yeah i mean it looks just like a forerunner it's awesome uh
i it's so cool i'm on i'm on the list of uh if he ever sells that thing let me know
you know it uh and it rides surprisingly well um yeah it's very comfortable right yeah he drives
it up from like kansas to visit his folks like yeah something being like that built that's pretty
yeah that's pretty impressive like the xj i couldn't drive it to pick my kids up from school let alone
four states away oh however many yeah he came over when he was up here last it was man that
thing's cool yeah i'm all i'm all i'm all about all right guys quantity over quality i just have a
lot of rigs not one cool one i have uh neither quality or quantity so i have two rigs and they're
both in varying stages of disrepair one that runs and one that doesn't so and then you get in derrick's
you know derrick's plush lexus that's got vibrating warm heated steering wheels and
you know like that one time when we where'd we go we were going campsite scouting and you threw me
up to the ceiling but like i was so surprised you off that rough baby yeah dude but i was so surprised
how like nice it was in there i'm like dude and and it's what almost 20 years old yeah yeah those
lexuses are nice for sure that's it's it's kind of a weird dynamic when you're like doing rugged
hardcore off-road stuff but you're sitting inside of a nice plush lexus
yeah i we might be buying a new rig uh as a daily here soon and it's going to be the same kind of
thing very plush inside and very rugged what do you think it's
uh we'll talk about it when we're not recording because i don't really want to put it out yet in
case it doesn't understandable work all right fellas i have to wait i know what it is i know
what it is you're getting it you're getting a terrain all kt4
dude that's dead on how did you guess that all right well all right see you guys later