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Wha...

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No.

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Welcome to Botch's Off-Road Podcast.

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Today we're just doing a quick and dirty.

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I've got lots of background noise and everything.

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I mean, it's dirty as dirty can be.

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The Drummond Island Off-Road Club just had their meeting about what happened to Marblehead

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and I got one of the botches here.

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He was able to get into the meeting and listen.

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They wouldn't let me in as botch is off-road.

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So whatever.

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But all right, Duncan, if you want to kind of lay out what you heard today.

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Definitely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it was the first of the annual meetings that they're doing.

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So they kind of covered a few of the agendas and stuff and some of the accomplishments

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they had last year at Trail Cleanups.

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And obviously one of the source spots they talked about was the construction of the steps.

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And I know that a lot of us in this club and a lot of the other clubs around Michigan had

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questions about who knew about this kind of stuff and what the plan was from the DNR.

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It sounds like the Off-Road Club up there in Drummond Island was kind of kept alive

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in name only by the Tourism Association.

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So it wasn't actually the case that the club was doing much until about early last year

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or the year before.

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And at that point, it kind of sounds like the DNR communicated through a couple individuals

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rather than the clubs at all.

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So when they initially spoke to one of the more senior members, they kind of laid out

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the full scope of the project, which was to block off access to the overlook and make

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sure that people weren't driving all the way out to the ledge and damaging that.

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And as part of that, they talked about how to get down there.

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And the senior member went out there with a few of the other people from the Jeep community

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and talked about plotting out a route to kind of bypass the steps so they wouldn't damage

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it.

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And after some back and forth to the DNR, the DNR was unsure as to how that would be

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possible.

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And then later on, so last year, they reached out to one of the newer members of the Off-Road

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Club and spoke to them about it.

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And it was to her understanding that the scope of work was that they were going to go out,

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block off the overpass and that they were going to demolish part of the mini steps.

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Which is on its own really bad because the mini steps were one of the coolest features

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out there.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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And, you know, in speaking with them, she got the impression that they were going to

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demolish part of the steps so they could get out there and leave everything else untouched.

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And either through dishonesty with the DNR or with miscommunication to the contractors,

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when they went out there, they not only demolished part of the mini steps, but they went out there

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and they demolished part of the main steps too.

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And obviously that's what's created all the pictures and the circulation, the outrage.

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And they made they made a mess because they pushed all those rocks right up into the woods.

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I mean, it's it's not even an attractive trail anymore.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And that was one of the big complaints that, you know, a lot of the members in the local

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clubs had, you know, it just it seems like there's this two tiered system that, you know,

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it's rules for the but not for me.

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And, you know, and just like you said, they demolished the steps and they didn't even

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haul off the rocks or anything.

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They just dumped them right by the treeline.

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And there were a lot of complaints just about how hideous it looks and the fact that now

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you've got this big, you know, four to five foot drop off right at the edge of the trail

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onto these boulders and how they're going to take care of that.

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And you know, it was it was a productive meeting.

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And I think everyone realized that, you know, there needed to be better communication.

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And from what it sounded like to me, I think a couple of individuals got a hold of it,

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didn't think it was as big of a deal.

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But I think the DNR and you full well what they were going to go in there and do and

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maybe try to play the cards close to the chess and hope they could sneak by one or two people.

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And you saw it in the you know, in the press statement, they said we spoke with the Off-Road

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Club and they said they were OK with this.

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And like I said, I think they kind of they knew what they were doing.

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They came in from different angles, tried to get one or two people to sign off and they

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were like, yep, good enough for us.

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Let's go for it.

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So and were there any DNR members in the meeting at all?

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No, no.

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And that was something we spoke about, I think, in these future meetings, you know, which

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I plan to attend and which a lot of the other members of this club and some of the other

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clubs are going to plan to attend.

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We are going to try to get the kind of the project manager and like the guy who gives

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the approvals for these projects in on these meetings.

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They do have a point of contact.

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They do know who to speak to.

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It's just a case of getting them to open up.

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And I think they did attend some of the meetings and they addressed this individual who worked

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with the DNR.

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I think after pressing him and poking him and saying, did you really get the buy in

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with the Off-Road Club?

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I think he kind of claimed clean and said, well, no, we didn't.

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Yeah, it just.

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You know, it's been said a lot.

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We as a podcast have kind of danced around the subject.

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We haven't really been at the forefront of all the Drummond Island drama like we should

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have.

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But it's been said time and time again that the DNR was so freaking sneaky on this one.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Like I said, they had an agenda and they just knew they need to get enough buy in to get

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in there and do it.

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And there were a lot of people who said, you know, did you see the doses coming in?

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Didn't you see them moving the equipment into place?

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And everyone said, yeah, we did.

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But we didn't think they were going to do that.

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And I don't know.

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What can you do?

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You have to stand out there and police the DNR and watch them do the work.

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I don't know.

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I mean, it worked.

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Where was that?

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Where a bunch of people went out and kept them from putting in the solar panels?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't know who it was.

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Some individual in one of the bigger clubs here called Wind that they were looking at

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demolishing.

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I think it was 400 acres of forest up there for a potential solar farm project.

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And they got out early.

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They had enough, you know, far enough.

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And they created quite a stir in some of the clubs.

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And a lot of the club members reached out to their senators and their representatives.

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And I'll be damned if they didn't get exactly the response they wanted.

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And I think we managed to dissuade that, if not shut it down completely.

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So we we shut it down because they went out to do something.

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And there were guys sitting there with ARs like you ain't you ain't doing this.

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And they just left.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it it sucks that that's where we're at.

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But that's why the two ways there is government overreach just like this.

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And I think it's just the fact that they find the path of least resistance, that they see

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a piece of state park land and they're like, well, we can get rid of this.

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No one's really going to care.

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But it's just like a lot of people said, like Drummond Island and those steps there at Model

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Head were the premier attraction in Michigan.

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Like I think we both said it multiple times.

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Yeah, probably the hardest obstacle in Michigan and probably one of the premier destinations

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in the Midwest, maybe.

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I would definitely.

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Yeah, we ain't got much in the Midwest.

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I mean, what do we have?

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Mud.

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Most people don't like mud.

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We like to go out and do stuff without just destroying our rigs.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And the steps and everything that that stood for really drew a lot of, you know, a lot

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of people to that area.

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And I like I said, I think it was just one of those things where it was a rude awakening

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to everyone that, hey, we need to start paying attention to this stuff, you know, because

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it's not just going to impact the off road community.

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I'm sure the tourism industry up there and, you know, did I think is what they call themselves.

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I'm sure it hurts them, too.

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So you know, there just there needs to be a little more proactiveness.

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And I think moving forward, you know, I'm confident that we kind of know what we need

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to do.

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And I think now it's just going to be a case of, you know, just trying to keep you rid

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of the ground.

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If you hear inklings of little things, just like with the solar farm project, you know,

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if you if you see the DNR host in these meetings, I think it's just going to be a case of you

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don't have to be a member of a club.

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I don't think you have to be anyone of any high importance of power.

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Just show up, say, hey, you know, I love this community.

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I love to off road here and I have opinions about the things that are being done.

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And I'm afraid that it might hurt, you know, the hobby I love and one of the biggest draws

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that we have for tourism in Michigan.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And I mean, even sorry if for anyone who realized I quit talking, I had to be because the kid

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was thrown a fit.

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Like I said, quick, quick and dirty.

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Lots of background noise.

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Yep.

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Yeah, that's what this is.

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Trying to trying to keep it fresh.

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So there was a lot that was talked about.

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Yeah, the it just it gets me because even as someone going to Drummond Island, I'm less

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likely to want to go to Marblehead now.

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I mean, even if I was just liking because it's just not pretty anymore.

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And we've seen the ripples.

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We've spoken about this.

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You know, I think Jeep has rescinded the badge of honor associated with the model.

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I think they gave it times and they gave it back.

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But I don't know if it stayed.

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Let me check real quick.

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I think they took it away in an immediate response.

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They gave it back.

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And then it was to my understanding that they went in, took a second look and took it back

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again.

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I just closed that window.

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Yeah, it looks like it does not exist anymore.

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I know.

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And I mean, so now, you know, Michigan, we don't have a lot of badge of honor trails

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anyway.

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And no, as much as I mean, I'm a Jeeper, so I guess I can't talk too much crap.

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But the Jeep badge of honor, it really is a way because people are out searching to

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try and get all of them.

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And if we're losing the only one in Michigan, now they have almost no reason to come here

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at all.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And I think it I think it's an awakening for the rest of us.

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I mean, we let them slip by this one time and they went and demolish half the steps.

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I mean, who's to say they don't go in there at some other point and finish the job?

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Who's to say they don't go down to, I mean, Skiddi Hill?

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We've been there a whole bunch of times.

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You know, we took a couple of outbreaks there.

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It's our officers.

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Skiddi Hill is in downtown Detroit.

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This is what happens when you don't take care of roads, DNR officers, you let the roads

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get so bad that we use them as off road obstacles.

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Exactly.

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Fix Detroit, please.

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Downtown Detroit.

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Again, downtown Detroit.

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It is not in northern Michigan at all.

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Nope, no, nowhere near where we are.

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But you know, the point also came up, you know, the DNR are not strangers to this place.

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There are officers out there all the time.

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And credit to the DNR, the field agents they do have a spread pretty thin.

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But a lot of people said they've seen the DNR out there.

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They're doing best studies.

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They're doing all kinds of wildlife studies, conservation efforts.

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But then those same officers aren't going out there and, you know, taking a slightly

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different track, enforcing a lot of things like safety.

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Like, you know, there are a lot of vehicles driving really fast.

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There's a lot of open containers of alcohol, a lot of people drinking.

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And for all the presence the DNR has, they don't seem to do anything about that.

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And when they do do it, they do it to, you know, Jeeps and Toyotas.

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But they leave the side by sides alone.

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And that drives me up a wall because our biggest issue in Michigan off road trails.

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And I think I think this is kind of universal and trails in general is side by sides are

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just freaking terrible.

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They're tearing up the corners.

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They're throwing their trash out the side.

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I mean, just all around side by sides are a huge part of our problem.

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They are.

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They are.

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I don't like to put anyone else down.

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You know, I'm sure if I got into a side by side, I'd absolutely love it.

240
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:22,160
I mean, Lord knows our Toyotas are so slow and underpowered and we're crawling around.

241
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,440
But I think that then puts the onus a little more on these people with these, you know,

242
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,440
turbocharged side by side.

243
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,720
You can get up going so fast and just access a lot of the trails that we can't get to.

244
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,480
If they're out there rotten stuff up and they're driving dangerously and things like, you know,

245
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,440
again, not to point fingers of blame, but we we all just need to kind of do our bit

246
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,580
to keep things safe, you know, because all it takes is one or two people breaking the

247
00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:47,200
rules and making things worse.

248
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,080
And they could go in there and they could shut it down.

249
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,640
They could say no one is accessing these trails anymore.

250
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:53,800
Right.

251
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,640
And I agree.

252
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,180
I want to I don't like to put anyone down.

253
00:12:59,180 --> 00:13:04,760
It's just my way of looking at it is the barrier for entry with a side by side is so much lower

254
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,960
than the barrier to entry with a full size rig because a full size rig you spend, let's

255
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,480
say my forerunner, for example, I've got 10 grand into that rig and it can do a lot of

256
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:20,560
things, but they're side by sides that can far out do what it can do.

257
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:25,620
And I can go buy one of those for 20 grand and spend no time working on it and just go

258
00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:27,480
tear up trails.

259
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,200
Yep.

260
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:35,000
And back in the day when it was just the full size rigs and maybe quads and dirt bikes,

261
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,340
whatever, they have their own thing going on.

262
00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:43,600
But when it was mostly just full size rigs, the trail stayed pretty OK because it took

263
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,080
so much more to get to those spots, so much more work.

264
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,840
And we respected it because of that.

265
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:50,840
Absolutely.

266
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,840
Yeah.

267
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,600
And you know, one of the things is that the DNR claimed that a lot of the improvements

268
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,760
to stuff they're doing is that they want to make those trails two wheel drive accessible.

269
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,560
I think the specific language they use was for two wheel drive, like, you know, rear

270
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,200
wheel drive pickup trucks and stuff.

271
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,040
And I guess I see the point.

272
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,280
I could see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I don't know.

273
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,280
I don't know.

274
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:23,080
I don't mean to be a gatekeeper and stuff, but if you can't get out there and you can't

275
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,320
do the trails, I mean, that tough, that's kind of the point.

276
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,040
Like, I'm sorry if you can't get your Prius or your pickup truck out there, but I don't

277
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:38,120
think that that justifies you going through and demolishing this nationally recognized

278
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,440
trail and this previously or prior Jeep badge on a trail just so those one season, two season

279
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,440
can get in there.

280
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:46,440
I don't know.

281
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,440
I don't know.

282
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,800
That's not a good enough excuse.

283
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,240
Mind you, these spots were not inaccessible to foot traffic.

284
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,360
You could always walk out to Marblehead.

285
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,480
You can always get out there.

286
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,800
And that alone to me, there's no reason for a two wheel drive vehicle to be able to get

287
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,800
out there.

288
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,800
Now.

289
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:06,800
Okay.

290
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,840
You could say, uh, handicap people would have a harder time.

291
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,520
Well, then they should get a four wheel drive.

292
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,960
They should get something else to get out there.

293
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,640
And you've got to say like, what is your end goal here?

294
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,120
Like you want more tourism and more accessibility.

295
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,800
Okay, fine.

296
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,520
But then does that justify you going out there and destroying the trails and tearing the

297
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:35,600
place up, losing an entire other side of the tourism industry?

298
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,640
I mean, I just, I can't see where the DNR is coming from on this one.

299
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,600
A lot of times I can at least see the DNR side, but this side, I don't see anything.

300
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:47,720
I don't get it.

301
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,560
I don't think there was anyone complaining about the trails being so hard that they couldn't

302
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,560
enjoy them.

303
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,480
Like for a lot of us that served as a motivator.

304
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,600
We were like, gosh, you know, I'd love to build a rig one day.

305
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,480
They can get up the, you know, the, uh, the stairs at Marblehead, you know, and gosh,

306
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,280
I want to get to this, you know, this challenge and, you know, like, you know, climb this

307
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,880
proverbial mountain.

308
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,360
And it was always fun seeing the people go out there and try to do it and, you know,

309
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,760
coaching each other through it and bringing the new people up through the ranks and seeing

310
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,640
if they could make it through.

311
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,640
But I don't know.

312
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,960
And now I've got a permanent scar because the steps at Marblehead are what took out

313
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,680
my frame and I would never be able to go up that section without breaking my frame again.

314
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:29,680
I know.

315
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:35,320
And I mean, the point is that now it's a vehicle wide, I think there's, there's pretty much

316
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,320
one way to get up.

317
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,680
And I mean, I don't know.

318
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,160
I just, but I think it started a conversation and that was good.

319
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,680
And you know, when we ended the meeting out, there were a lot of talks about, well, what

320
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:49,680
do we do next?

321
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,840
And you know, the, the off-road club was saying, you know, we're getting ready to look at the

322
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,800
2025, 2026 agenda and what kind of projects you want to put into place.

323
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,040
And there was a lot of talk about doing things, you know, like getting porta parties out there,

324
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,280
you know, getting better trash collection and things like that to kind of open up tourism.

325
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,720
And you know, one of the points raised by the members that I think was a really good

326
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,280
one, I think may have some traction is can we take some of those ATV trails that are

327
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,840
currently, you know, I mean, what 40, 50 inches wide, can we widen those out to full, full

328
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,200
by full width so that we have more area to, you know, to drive around in, like can we

329
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,080
create new trails or don't widen them, leave them the way they are.

330
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,920
People with smaller rigs, they're going to go down them.

331
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,920
What that's going to do is slowly widen them naturally.

332
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,920
And then your bigger rigs can get to them later.

333
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:42,360
And that leaves it where it's actually a challenge for, but for example, we both drive third

334
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:43,360
gen forerunners.

335
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,360
We're really small.

336
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:45,360
Oh, yeah.

337
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:50,440
We can get through a lot of those ATV trails and just us going down.

338
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,480
It is going to open it up for someone like, say, Mark, who's got, you know, a second

339
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:55,480
gen Tacoma.

340
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:56,480
Absolutely.

341
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,480
Yeah.

342
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,480
Yeah.

343
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,640
And I'm always amazed seeing, you know, our third gen is next to the fifth gen, such as

344
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,640
how relatively small those rigs are.

345
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,640
And I agree.

346
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:04,640
I agree.

347
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,960
I think there's some wiggle room there and I think there's a chance that we can kind

348
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,400
of claw some of this back and make some more trails up there.

349
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,640
One of the members of the Off-Road Club did raise the point that some of these areas that

350
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,820
are only accessible by ATVs are done so because they're around environmentally sensitive areas.

351
00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:27,920
And so I don't think any of us are advocating that the whole island should just be free

352
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:28,920
Rome.

353
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,480
But at the same time, you know, like we kind of, I don't know, we let the DNR slide with

354
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,480
this one.

355
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,160
Like, what are they going to do for us?

356
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,720
Like, can we open up some of these other trails to other people and can we kind of reestablish,

357
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,060
you know, Drummond Island as a place that people want to go to again, despite what's

358
00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:46,560
happened there?

359
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:52,000
And sadly, man, I'd love to see Drummond Island as a free for all.

360
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,540
But at the same time, there's a lot of stuff on Drummond Island that is just it's only

361
00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:59,280
there and a free for all is going to destroy it.

362
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,280
Yeah.

363
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,280
Yeah.

364
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,200
And like I said, it doesn't just impact the off-roading community.

365
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,520
It impacts all the people up there, all the businesses, all the tourism.

366
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:13,640
And yeah, I think this was just a tough lesson that we learned the hard way that we didn't

367
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,880
really pay as much mind or as much attention.

368
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,800
I don't think we, you know, throw up as much dust and as much smoke as we should have.

369
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,400
And we didn't make this as big an issue as it actually was.

370
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:29,640
And I think the DNR, you know, whether by the right way or the wrong way, they slipped

371
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,680
it by us and they went in there and they did the work that, you know, has impacted the

372
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,600
steps the way it has now.

373
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,320
So you said they're going to do these meetings annually.

374
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,320
They're not going to do these like monthly or anything?

375
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,320
Monthly.

376
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,320
They are doing them monthly.

377
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,320
They are doing them monthly.

378
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,320
So I would.

379
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,320
Yeah, I was going to say I would.

380
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,320
Yeah.

381
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,640
If you get in there once a month, we can do one of these once a month.

382
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,120
Just kind of a little recap.

383
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:53,120
Absolutely.

384
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,120
Yeah.

385
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,720
I would I would highly recommend, you know, if you're not on Facebook, I mean, I'm not

386
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,040
saying get in there and, you know, fully involved, but create an account.

387
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,040
Go ahead.

388
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,440
Go follow the Drummond Island Off-Roading Club.

389
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,680
Follow that page.

390
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,680
Stay up to date on the meetings.

391
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,480
You know, keep up to date on these things and make a showing.

392
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,880
You know, I'm not saying go there and create a stink, but just be aware, make your voice

393
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,260
heard and, you know, try to contribute positively.

394
00:20:17,260 --> 00:20:19,760
Don't be a Chibs McDonkian.

395
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,760
Exactly.

396
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:21,760
Yeah.

397
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:22,760
Yeah.

398
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:29,480
I mean, to be fair from the little bit, I did see it didn't look like Chibs was being

399
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,040
disrespectful at all.

400
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,280
No, no, I don't.

401
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:33,840
I don't think anyone was disrespectful.

402
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:41,920
I just I love that persona for that individual who I'm not going to air out on this, but

403
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,880
it's just a great persona, man.

404
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,200
And it's it's the tough pill to swallow, you know, as you know, as much as I respect all

405
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,200
the members of the Off-Road Club and stuff, there are always going to be times where you

406
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,280
have to deal with angry people and the angry public.

407
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,160
And, you know, some people are going to voice those opinions a little bit louder than others

408
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,320
and maybe in a little more of a, you know, a brash way.

409
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,360
But I think we're all rightfully upset.

410
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:09,240
And I think we all realize that, you know, what what happened here wasn't a mistake and

411
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,240
it wasn't oversight.

412
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,240
And, you know, I don't think we need to hold it against each other.

413
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,040
But I think we should use it as a motivating factor and kind of a unifying force that we

414
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,600
all use moving forward to make a better difference and to make sure this stuff doesn't happen

415
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,600
again.

416
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,440
We definitely need to stay more involved than we were because we really just kind of took

417
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,400
Michigan for granted and just kind of let the DNR, you know, whatever they said was

418
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,400
it.

419
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,280
And we can't do that anymore.

420
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,280
Not after this.

421
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,280
No, you've just it.

422
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,160
And it's sad that that's what it takes.

423
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,560
It's sad that you have to kind of, you know, trust but verify.

424
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,800
But if that's the game we have to play, then, you know, we either play that game or something

425
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,080
like this happens again.

426
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,080
Yep.

427
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,440
Well, all right, man.

428
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,120
I guess going forward, we'll just kind of have you on for anyone that doesn't know.

429
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,160
Duncan is one of the non podcast man.

430
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,920
Sorry, one of the non podcast members of MST.

431
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,360
We do have some of those, by the way.

432
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:09,360
You do.

433
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,400
I think we got what?

434
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,400
Three.

435
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,400
Yeah, because there's six of us total.

436
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,760
So there's three that aren't part of the podcast.

437
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,760
Yeah, man.

438
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,160
It'll be nice hearing from you in the future and keeping the people informed.

439
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,160
Absolutely.

440
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,160
Yeah.

441
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,160
Yeah.

442
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,440
I appreciate the chance to talk and yeah, I'm glad I got to make my debut here on the

443
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,440
Botch's Off-Road podcast.

444
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:30,440
So thank you very much for having me.

445
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,440
Yep.

446
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:49,680
Catch you later.