1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,320 We're coming your way live righteous and 2 00:00:03,940 --> 00:00:07,820 There you have it everybody! 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,980 video warning so you can be sure to catch that 4 00:00:07,820 --> 00:00:09,480 Thanks for watching! 5 00:00:07,980 --> 00:00:08,540 one myself! 6 00:00:08,540 --> 00:00:19,740 Fan shoes, 7 00:00:19,740 --> 00:00:26,480 gear wallets, 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:35,000 Welcome to botches off road. Join us as we talk about everything from gear reviews to 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,560 trail stories, tank camping to rock climbing and all things to do with the outdoors. Today 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:46,720 is an Orthology episode because it's a new month and we have a new magazine to read through. 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:52,560 I think we're going to do two articles. They're kind of shorter ones, but and they go together. 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,160 So it made sense to just do both of them. But I'm pretty sure that we're going to read. 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:06,440 Yeah, we'll have time for both. So how are you guys doing? We're doing good. Yeah. Gavin 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:13,080 Gavin's alive. Yeah. I live a little heart attack, but ain't gonna stop me. Yeah. What 15 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,840 the hell, dude? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. It, uh, like I said, it's happened before. 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,600 I guess I have something wrong with one of my mital valve or some, some like that. But, 17 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:29,200 uh, yeah, I was just driving and, uh, my chest got real tight and my leg got numb. And I 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:35,840 was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna head to the ER. And I went and they measured my triptonin 19 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,960 or something like that. The levels there and they were high. And, uh, yeah. So that was, 20 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:47,440 uh, that was pretty fun. Um, I haven't been drinking as many monsters and I'm taking my 21 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,200 blood pressure medication now. So I should be alive for a couple more years at least. 22 00:01:52,200 --> 00:02:01,080 And yeah. Yeah. Before we get to on that note. Yeah. Before we get too far into this, uh, 23 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:07,640 what's everyone drinking tonight? Anything good? Um, smart water. I have the last can 24 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:13,680 of the Baja variety pack for hard. Oh yeah. You're still drinking that crap. It's the 25 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:27,160 last one. Yeah. I have had four screwdrivers and I'm about to open my last spicy beer. 26 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:39,600 Gross. They're so good, dude. Blake's hard cider, mango habanero. They are so good. Yeah. 27 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:46,360 I didn't even acquire a taste that I did not acquire. Did you even try it? Yeah. It tasted 28 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,520 exactly like hatch chili. And I was like, Nope, done. Because I had a, I don't, the 29 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:57,360 ones that you left here had the exact amount that we're supposed to be in the Friday pack. 30 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Oh, I had two of them. Yeah. There was exactly the right amount. Yeah. Yeah. The, I tried 31 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,320 the hatch chili and the other pack that I had and I was like, yeah, no, I'm good. Uh, 32 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:15,320 it reminded me a lot of the Jones soda company. They make a hatch chili, uh, soda and it tastes 33 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,400 a lot like that, but with alcohol. And I was like, yeah, I'm done. I'm good. It just tastes 34 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:27,240 delicious. I don't know what your problem is. Yeah. I'm, I've got like, right now I'm looking 35 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:32,960 at more than a six pack worth of empties on my desk because I'm a slob and haven't cleaned 36 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,880 them up. That's a you problem. That's a you problem. I think you're the only one that 37 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,880 likes spicy beer. Oh, I like it. You're the same. Me and Mark together go through a lot 38 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:54,120 of these. Yes. Who else? Uh, Jeep, Derek liked it and Brian sweet likes it. No. And, um, 39 00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:02,440 Duncan liked it. Yep. They all lied. It's just being nice to you. No, it's really good, 40 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:11,520 right? Highly recommend to all the listeners out there. Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, I know. Why 41 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:17,840 don't we start the, uh, the first article, um, called winter overlanding, uh, by Jason 42 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:26,320 Fletcher. And, uh, the first part starts, uh, just like this, uh, winter overlanding 43 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,500 can be a thrilling and rewarding experience. Whether you're tackling snowy trails, camping 44 00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:37,920 in sub zero temperatures, or just exploring frosty landscapes. Preparation is key. Here's 45 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,120 some essential tips and insights for winter overlanding enthusiasts drawn from the years 46 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:48,800 of experience. Um, and then the first start, it goes, uh, embrace the challenge. Winter 47 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:55,120 transforms ordinary trails to into unique challenges. Snow, ice and freezing temperatures 48 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,480 can make even the basic gravel road and adventure with the right preparation. You can not only 49 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:07,400 survive but thrive in these conditions. Um, we did, we definitely learned that unless 50 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:15,320 you're in the up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, just don't winter camp in the up. Yeah. It's already 51 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:21,000 hard with all the snowmobile trails and stuff. Anyway, the deep snow is crazy, but, uh, we 52 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,160 learned that on poker run, even with the light amount of snow, it did change the trail conditions 53 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:32,000 considerably. Oh yeah. Even, even Northern, uh, lower peninsula, it's really hard to do 54 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:38,160 it just cause they're so like camping is fine, but there's so many snowmobile trails. Yeah. 55 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,320 It's really hard. And then of course you have the, the deep snow. Uh, I just went out here 56 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:50,320 last week and for like a recovery mission here and, uh, got into some really deep, wet 57 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:56,920 snow and that changed the whole trail made what easy off-camber situations you start 58 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,240 sliding off the side of the trail a little bit and you're like, Ooh, we should definitely 59 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,920 talk about that real quick. So first off screw that group for not accepting that lady when 60 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,960 she needed help. Yeah. So, uh, originally what had happened is I got up for work, uh, 61 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:19,240 one morning and a woman made a post on one of the off-roading, uh, off-road groups, uh, 62 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:28,600 that I'm on and said that her husband and son were stuck and they needed help. And, 63 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:34,920 uh, I was a little early. I figured, you know, I was pretty close to them, uh, just judging 64 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,960 by the area. She was saying, I was like, all right, I'll go out. I mean, you know, it couldn't 65 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:46,680 be too bad. And then, uh, so I put the pen in and turned out it was an hour away, tried 66 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,000 contacting her, couldn't get her, you know, couldn't get any contact with her. Uh, we 67 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:59,320 tried messaging on Facebook. We tried commenting and asking for nothing. Uh, but you know, 68 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,600 I kinda, I kept thinking about the eight year old and the kid, you know, stuck and thought 69 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:09,280 about my kid and was like, you know what? It's worth it more to just go out and, and 70 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:16,600 make sure. So I, uh, so I headed out and did that told work. I'd be a little late and, 71 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:22,720 uh, everything was pretty easy until I got there. I got on the trail and didn't look 72 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:28,080 like there was much marks, but there's a lot of trails to get to it. So it was a, a blue 73 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:35,720 trail in the summer, if that helps anybody on Onyx. And, uh, it definitely, definitely 74 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,600 earned some blue trail in the summer, I guess it was, had some good off camber stuff that 75 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:45,840 you guys would have loved. And, uh, we got to, I was, I hadn't aired down yet, which 76 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:52,520 was kind of dumb, uh, for the trail. It was, it probably needed it. And some of these, 77 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:57,640 uh, some of these holes were starting to get kind of big. And I was starting to see, you 78 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:03,800 know, starting to lose grip a little bit. Um, my tires were spinning, um, not super 79 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:10,240 used to the snow in that condition. We had a couple of days of it melting and, uh, and 80 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,920 then it kind of snowed again. So it was all just super heavy for this. You know, it was 81 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:20,840 like, I'd say four inches at the lowest and six to eight inches, I mean, at the tallest 82 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:27,360 and for snow up there. And yeah, my truck, uh, it felt like it was struggling. I don't 83 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:33,080 actually know if it was, but I felt like I was losing speed. And so I kind of felt the 84 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:39,080 pressure with that. And then wanting to be able to even get out to help those people. 85 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:44,640 And I guess I got, I got just a little anxious or something, stopped, uh, stopped trusting 86 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:52,600 my instinct and gut and, um, took, uh, took a couple of deeper holes than I was supposed 87 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:58,600 to. And then I hit one and I was trying to keep my speed up and had another hole in front 88 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,680 of me. It didn't look bad, but I could tell it was the main, you know, like a main deep 89 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:09,480 hole. Uh, but like I said, I was trying to keep my momentum and the bypass was a real 90 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,960 sharp right. And I knew I would slide a little bit and I didn't want to slow down and lose 91 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,960 traction. So I was like, all right, we'll just gonna, we're just gonna hit it. And boy, 92 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:25,280 it was deep. Uh, uh, my, you know, you guys know on some of these off camber ones that, 93 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:30,480 you know, my hitch scrapes, Oh dude, that thing dragged through the dirt. And, uh, I 94 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:37,240 went straight down the, some ice was covering water over the hole. Uh, and then, you know, 95 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:43,920 refroze. So it was deeper than it actually looked. And I sunk my whole left side up, 96 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:50,880 past, you know, just a bit past the floorboards, um, could barely open my door. Um, and you 97 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,320 know, I was like, Oh dude, I could get out of here. So I started moving a little bit 98 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,360 back and forth and like, yeah, it's, uh, it's not going well. I'm just going to grab my 99 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,600 traction boards and try and use that. And then, um, grab my shovel, my traction boards and 100 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,800 my muck boots, which I keep in the truck just in case anything happens, I need winter boots 101 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:17,360 or deep boots and, uh, started kind of digging around the tire. Um, first mistake, plastic 102 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:24,520 snow shovel, um, wasn't good for getting solid chunks of ice and snow that was, you know, 103 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:31,600 really wet out from the front of my truck. So we need to get you a real pioneer kit. 104 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,240 Yeah. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to buy a new shovel. That's definitely on the list 105 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:43,160 now. Um, shovel and ax and I forgot, I have the ax. Yeah. What's the third part of a pioneer 106 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:55,480 kit? Is it shovel and ax fire starter? No rope. What now? We always put them in a T pickaxe 107 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:01,800 maybe. That's why I said pickaxe. Oh, I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. But, uh, yeah, no, it 108 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:09,160 was, uh, it was hard. Uh, my main issue was my left rear. Um, everything else was okay. 109 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,520 Uh, locked the diff and that left side just wasn't moving because of how deep that rut 110 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:21,960 is that I, that I ended up sinking into. So I dug out the front as best I could, but I 111 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:28,040 couldn't get much over what I had. I got like two inches deep before shovel couldn't do 112 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:37,160 it. And then my, the rear tire was pretty, um, pretty clean the rear side of it. So I 113 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,440 dug that out pretty well through a traction board under it. Um, and then through a traction 114 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:50,040 board on the front left one too, because that was the other side that was sunk down a little 115 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:56,880 deeper and I started to gain a little bit, started creeping back. I was doing okay. And 116 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:04,600 then all of a sudden I just lost all traction and I get out, I looked down and that hole 117 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:12,760 where I had it all clean and dug out, uh, was full with water. So there's, uh, once 118 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:19,240 that water got in there, uh, the traction board was doing nothing. Uh, so that was, 119 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,600 uh, that I almost had an instance and I was super proud. I was going to be like, Alex, 120 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,480 the traction board, it finally worked. I tested it. And then, uh, and then, Nope. As soon 121 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,360 as that water poured in there, that traction board, which this is a cheap traction board 122 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:38,400 made out of plastic, they do have some with, well, they do have some with metal studs in 123 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:44,520 there that would have helped a lot. Um, they all, they all work the same. They work the 124 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,800 same, but I feel like if it had something to grab onto, it might've helped better. Um, 125 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:56,720 I, I, you know, I've watched so many, I've watched so many videos of traction boards 126 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,960 and the only time I've seen people actually get out with them is when they honestly could 127 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:07,400 have got out by rocking their truck. Yeah. And that's about the point, but I, I do think 128 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:12,440 with, you know, how I was stuck, I wasn't getting out by rocking. And if I would have, 129 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,280 I honestly think if I would have been able to dug out the front of the tire, uh, that 130 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,640 I would have been able to get out with them, uh, because that side wasn't the part that 131 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:28,160 was filling up with water. It was behind it deeper, but living, you learn, um, the traction 132 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:35,260 boards were not working at that point. Um, I put a, uh, moving blanket over the traction 133 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:41,680 board, uh, to help give the tire a little bit more grip. And it did work a little bit. 134 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:48,120 I got up and out of that, like first part and then sunk back into the hole after I tried 135 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,000 pulling out and stopping, uh, I should have just floored it and I didn't want to rip up 136 00:13:53,000 --> 00:14:00,320 my, uh, um, moving blanket, but yeah, that sucked. So like cat bucks. I know, but I just 137 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,400 didn't, they didn't want to rip it up and like have pieces everywhere. So I ended up 138 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:10,520 sliding back down into that. And then I was like, well, shit. And so kind of sat there 139 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:16,920 and, uh, talking with another guy in a West Michigan off road group, uh, Mike, and he's 140 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,160 like, yeah, I got another guy coming out. So I was like, okay, I'll just sit here and 141 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:26,760 look pretty. And, uh, little Ranger came by and he goes, are you Gavin? I'm like, yep. 142 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:34,280 And he goes, all right, well, I get my, uh, get my, um, uh, kinetic rope out of the back, 143 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:41,880 hook it up to him, hooked it up to my pen. He gave a little, a little tug, um, and pulled 144 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:49,080 me right out. No problem. So threw everything in the truck and we went down the trail and 145 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:55,440 we're kind of trying to chat up. He goes, I tells me on the way, Hey, you know, I, uh, 146 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,920 I'm from the area. I know that trail. Well, he goes, it's pretty interesting in the summer. 147 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:06,920 He goes, there's a pretty good hill climb on that trail. He goes, uh, in the winter, 148 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:13,240 that would be really, really rough. Uh, like in this kind of, uh, snow. And I'm like, huh, 149 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:19,040 okay. He goes, I went to the mouth of that trail and there was no tire tracks, no signs 150 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:24,920 that anybody had been on it recently. He goes, so I'm not really sure. You know, the post 151 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:30,320 is at 6 AM. He goes, I'm not really sure why anyone would be out there on a Monday. I'm 152 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:36,080 like, yeah, yeah, you got, you got a point. And so we chatted it up. Like I said, he explained 153 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,920 the trail conditions and stuff. And he goes, you know, we still haven't heard from them. 154 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:47,320 And I'm like, yeah, I, you know, I think it's not worth risking both of our rigs. Um, and 155 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,520 I said, and because no further contact has been made, you know, we should probably call 156 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,720 it off. And, uh, he goes, well, I'll take my, uh, side by side down at later if nothing 157 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,800 happens and I'll check it out to just double check and make sure I'm like, all right. So 158 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:08,440 as we're, uh, as I'm leaving, uh, probably about 30 minutes after I had aired up, cleaned 159 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:15,200 up, but everything back on my truck and left, um, we get a message with a screenshot saying, 160 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,120 uh, someone finally got ahold of her and she goes, oh no, I posted that like three, what 161 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,480 did she say? Like back like three or four months ago. And she's like, yeah, we'd already 162 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:31,600 gotten help by then. And I was like, oh, well, mother fucker. So it was a glitch in the matrix. 163 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:38,280 Someone was a little slow to approve her and the post. And, uh, it was a mistake. You know, 164 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:45,000 I, I no harm done on my side. You know, I got out, I was fine. Um, other than some gas 165 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:51,240 money, but you know, that is not, not any big deal. I mean, we obviously in these off 166 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:57,480 road groups, we try to make sure that people get approved as soon as possible for certain 167 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,640 things like that. So on the admins and mods of that group, it's on them a little bit, 168 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,080 but, uh, you know, they, I got praise from the group for at least going out and trying 169 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,400 and, uh, and, uh, you know, so, you know, another live and learn for me experience wise 170 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:20,360 in the snow. Um, and then, yeah, so that was a fun, and by the way, I will add right now, 171 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:25,000 if I had a winch, I would have been out of that in a minute. So that, that's further 172 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,000 solidified and Mike, the guy who I was chatting with was like, you need a winch. And I'm like, 173 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:35,720 I know, I know, I know. So, so that further solidified that and made me start prioritizing 174 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:42,040 winch stuff, which is a story for another time. Now, man, both of you within the next 175 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:47,600 like two months should be sitting on winches. Yeah. I, uh, I've been searching for winch 176 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:54,520 plate mounting brackets for, I mean, months and months and months, uh, and no luck, no 177 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:01,040 luck. Everything's, you know, at the least it's like four or five, $600. And the four 178 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:08,200 or five hundreds are kind of iffy, scary. And, uh, finally I went on marketplace and 179 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,960 I've been searching marketplace forever, but found a marketplace. There's a guy in Chicago 180 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:19,800 about four hours, three hours from me and he had one for 150 bucks. Fingers crossed. 181 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,560 I'm coming this Sunday to pick it up. And then, uh, there's a guy on our Facebook group 182 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:30,640 that's got a winch and everything, uh, that he's selling. So hopefully I'll buy that from 183 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:38,040 him and I will be set up and all good to go. Yeah. What's, uh, what's Casey looking for 184 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:45,920 out of that? Cause that's a bad lens, right? I think he said 400 with that and the, and 185 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:54,400 the lead, the lead he said was, I've heard of the lead before. Um, it sounded, uh, I 186 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,040 was, do you remember what lead you were talking about the one time that you were looking to 187 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,240 get? It looks like the lead that's on mine. Yeah. From, from what I've read, it's the 188 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:10,520 same lead that I'm running on mine right now. Right. Um, so my flat link. Yeah. So, I mean, 189 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,480 it would be nice. Uh, it definitely would have gotten me out of every stuck situation 190 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:25,320 I've been in so far. So obviously that's always good. So, but now that we, uh, we talked about 191 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:33,640 my little winter mishap, um, we'll get back into the, uh, into the article here and, uh, 192 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:40,160 for some key tips for winter overlanding winter transforms ordinary trails into unique challenges. 193 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:46,600 Snow ice, freezing temperatures. I just found a mistake. What? So they've got embrace the 194 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:52,960 challenge and key tips for overlanding, but it's the same chat or paragraph for both of 195 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:58,520 them. Oh yeah. You're right. I thought I had read that over again. I thought I was like, 196 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:04,280 whatever. So we'll move down. Yeah. We'll skip that. We'll go to cold weather gear. Proper 197 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,440 gear is the foundation of a successful adventure. Here are some essentials. Diesel heaters, 198 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,400 unlike propane heaters, diesel heaters provide warm, dry air without adding condensation. 199 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:22,360 They're efficient, safe, and can keep your tent toasty even in extreme cold. Uh, we did 200 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:27,460 have some experience with propane heaters and while they might be good in a pinch, they 201 00:20:27,460 --> 00:20:36,380 are not good all night and long-term. If you seal everything up, um, clothing invest in 202 00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:43,260 quality gear included insulating pants, wool socks, waterproof boots. Layering is essential 203 00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:48,440 for warmth and flexibility. A heated jacket can also be a game changer for staying comfortable 204 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:56,280 around camp. So I got some things on this one. So for, uh, winter clothing, the army's 205 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:02,280 cold weather system is the cheapest for the money is the most effective route you could 206 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:10,040 go. Um, you're looking at like $300 tops for all five layers and you're good down to like 207 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,080 negative 20. And we're talking about the sleeping bag guys, by the way. No, I'm talking about 208 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,480 clothing. Oh, are you? I thought you were, I thought you were referring to the sleeping 209 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:24,640 bag. My, my apologies. No, no, no, no. The, the, yeah, the army's cold weather layer system. 210 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,560 I think there's five layers, uh, six, if you count the extreme cold weather parka, but 211 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:36,640 you're looking at somewhere between $400 for all of it. And you're just, you're good down 212 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:43,320 to like negative 20. Yeah. Um, yes, but the army sleeping bag best bang for your buck 213 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:49,640 cold weather sleeping bag. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so then we got boots and accessories, waterproof 214 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,080 insulated boots with excellent traction or a must. Don't forget gloves, hats, and extra 215 00:21:54,080 --> 00:22:01,040 layers to stay dry and warm, which, yep, that's pretty, pretty obvious. And then we, what 216 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,800 hats are really important because you lose something like 80% of your heat out the top 217 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:12,160 of your head. Right. And if your ball is even worse, yes. Not, not that, not that I'm, I'm 218 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:18,120 not pointing anyone out. I'm just saying, I'm bald guys. I wear a hat all the time. 219 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:26,680 I am. I am bald, but, uh, yeah. And if your hands and feet are getting cold, your actual 220 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,680 core body is what's cold because your, um, your body's really smart and it moves that 221 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,520 warm blood to the part of your body that is actually cold. So when your fingers start 222 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,200 getting white and cold, you actually need to raise your core temperature up, not your 223 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:47,520 extremities. So gloves aren't going to help. They'll help a little bit though. I mean, 224 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,600 they do help, but the, the number one thing is if your core body's cold, your fingers 225 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,840 are going to get cold. Period. And if you feel like first there, yeah. And if you're 226 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,520 like me and you have poor circulation, uh, yeah, your fingertips and your toes are the 227 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:08,160 first to go. Yep. Uh, so vehicle preparation, your vehicle's readiness can make or break 228 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:14,000 your trip. A hundred percent true. Uh, tires, winter and all-terrain tires are crucial for 229 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,080 traction on snow and ice. Airing down your tires improves grip and can help prevent getting 230 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:27,400 stuck. And that is true for most winter conditions until, uh, I would say deep, deep snow. Then 231 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,320 mud kind of helps you a little bit get through that, but yeah, I'd say deep snow with no 232 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:39,720 ice. I do enjoy my mud trains, but again, that's, we get that what once a year, nine 233 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:45,080 times out of 10, it's maybe deep snow with ice underneath. So when you're, and when you're 234 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:53,760 prepping for, let's say tires and be realistic, um, uh, what is happening in your area or 235 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,840 the areas that you're going to travel, um, and don't get muds just because they look 236 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,720 cool, which is fine if you do that, I guess. But yeah, I mean, it might bite you in the 237 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,120 ass and later. I mean, as long as you know how to drive with them, muds aren't the worst 238 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,480 thing in the world. No, they're not worse. You just have to understand that you're not 239 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,240 going to go fast on ice. Your body on all trains is always going to be able to outpace 240 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:25,920 you on ice. Oh yeah. Uh, we definitely know that, uh, for recovery gear, always carry 241 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,560 essentials like D ring, soft shackles, kinetic ropes, and a winch. These tools can be lifesavers 242 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:40,600 in deep snow and icy conditions. Uh, you got safe driving practices. Sorry. Snow can conceal 243 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,440 hazards like rocks or stumps drive cautiously, especially on unfamiliar trails, keep trail 244 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:56,800 recovery gear easily accessible and travel with a buddy whenever possible. And then, 245 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:02,840 uh, sorry, I had to take a drink of water. Uh, camping comfort. Winter camping is all 246 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:08,980 about staying warm and dry, dry gear like, uh, I'm sorry, drying gear. A diesel heater 247 00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:14,040 not only helps keep you warm, but can also help dry wet clothes and boots overnight. 248 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,720 Um, efficient packing, bringing extra clothes, blankets, and emergency supplies, keep electronics 249 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,480 charged and use the days driving to dry gear out and replenish battery powered equipment. 250 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,520 Also, if you have any battery powered equipment, um, in your vehicle overnight, just keep it 251 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:38,920 with you in your tent. If you can. Um, that'll also help with it from draining, uh, destinations 252 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:44,000 worth exploring for Midwest overlanders, Wisconsin and Michigan offer some of the best winter 253 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:50,760 trails. Menacee national forest of Michigan. And, Oh man, I don't know how to say this 254 00:25:50,760 --> 00:26:03,120 one. Nicolette. Was it Nicolette? Nicolette. Nicolette. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have 255 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:09,920 to get a winter from Wisconsin. You see Wisconsin, Michigan. Cause very Michigan name. If you, 256 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:16,720 if you took out the CH, but T I see to common on, so I'm going to go to Chiquamon on, uh, 257 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,800 national forest and Wisconsin are prime spots for snowy adventures. If you're located elsewhere, 258 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:27,720 look for areas with reliable snow coverage and scenic weather landscapes. Um, and then 259 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,080 you get safety first, uh, winter conditions are unpredictable. Check the weather, stay 260 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,480 aware of road conditions and always err on the side of caution. Driving slowly and remaining 261 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,920 vigilant can help you avoid accidents, travel with friends when possible and ensure your 262 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:49,240 gear is prepared for emergencies. I personally, I say it, if you're on winter trails, you 263 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,240 should be with people. You should not be alone. No, I mean, that is the most dangerous, uh, 264 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,080 trail riding really, especially if you're doing like a solo camp trip. I mean, solo 265 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,960 camp trips are fine, but you need to have, like, I would say you need to have a winch. 266 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:08,440 You need to have a way to get yourself out. I mean, or maybe some kind of emergency contact 267 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:15,600 system like a garment in reach or something, because they're more mesh testing, but, uh, 268 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,080 if, if that stuff fails and you're out there alone and you have no way of getting ahold 269 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,200 of anybody and you better be prepared. So, yeah, I do personally, other than normal recovery 270 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:32,720 equipment and stuff, I do carry, uh, dry meals, MREs, and I do just keep them in my truck, 271 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,440 you know, six or so of them. They're two, two meals in each bag. Uh, if anything ever 272 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:44,400 happened or if I'm even lazy at camp one day, um, I'll make one of those and you have enough 273 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,680 to last you a week. So, um, might be good to have some, you know, spare foods, obviously 274 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,080 if you're camping, you have stuff to make fires and whatnot, but just some, uh, just 275 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,240 some thoughts there, but, uh, final thoughts on the, on the article, winter overlanding 276 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,240 opens up a world of possibilities. It's an opportunity to experience nature in a completely 277 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,800 different way away from crowds and the heat of summer with the right preparation. Winter 278 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,760 adventures can become some of the most memorable of your overlanding journey. 279 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,840 Can we talk about the fact that the biggest picture in this article shows fall time camping? 280 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:25,880 Hey, what the heck? What the heck? I mean, you gotta think of our winter had been kind 281 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,280 of mild depending on what time of year they went. Yeah. Our winters have sucked. Yeah. 282 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:39,160 It's, uh, not been the best. What do you guys think? What about article wise? What, uh, 283 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,480 got anything you'd like to add onto that? No, I think it's a good article. It's got 284 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:51,560 a lot of good points. Yeah. I think most of the points that I think we bring up. So, yeah. 285 00:28:51,560 --> 00:29:06,200 Yeah. The next, I can read this one if you want. Sure. This one is, she calls it a unpopular 286 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,480 opinion, but honestly, I think this should be a popular opinion for everybody. I am going 287 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:20,520 to move this to my other monitor so it's easier to read. One second. Where did it go? Too 288 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,920 many monitors guys. I'm gonna, while he's doing that, I'm going to read you guys a little 289 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,640 story before this. There's a sign up near two hearted campground, Chris point lighthouse 290 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:37,280 on the Northern UP, um, a little ways off in Newsberry Newberry. Um, and this is what 291 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:43,500 the sign says at this spot on April 24th, 2015, the Michigan state police rescued two 292 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:50,200 sisters from Oklahoma and Nebraska who had their SUV stuck in the snow for 13 days. The 293 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:56,120 sisters survived on Girl Scout cookies, Cheetos, and other snack foods that they had with them. 294 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:03,000 So that sign is actually posted on the side of the road up to those Chris point two hearted 295 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:10,880 locations. Uh, as kind of a reminder for people, the UP is a, it's a, it's a dangerous place 296 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:16,020 if you're not ready. These people, um, well obviously it was into spring and the snow 297 00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:23,720 is still, uh, pretty dang deep up there. Um, so I mean, when you on average, when you get 298 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,560 like 70 to 80 inches of snow in a winter, you can't expect that to go away very fast. 299 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:37,080 I mean, you're looking well into may or April before it's gone. Yeah. So these, uh, these 300 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:43,320 sisters were very lucky that they had snacks and, uh, and, and there have been stories 301 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:49,080 of people not doing as well. So, um, that's the, it's a good reminder. It's nice that 302 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,280 they put that out. Um, that kind of opened my eyes for me during my little escape trip, 303 00:30:54,280 --> 00:31:02,120 uh, as I had mentioned, uh, and our radio chatter podcast, uh, that, you know, going 304 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:11,920 up there unprepared, um, can really lead you into some issues. So, yeah, that is a very 305 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:19,760 good story to put before this article. So, um, the article says unpopular opinion, gatekeeping 306 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:25,360 the UP social media groups are full of discussions and accusations of gatekeeping. When one party 307 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,120 feels like they are not getting traction in their requests for locations and trail info, 308 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,120 gatekeeping isn't necessarily bad. It helps ensure that special spots remain clean and 309 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,320 taken care of preserving them for our future. Just look at what happened to paradise point 310 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,400 near Christmas, an excellent camp area shut down due to the wrong people finding it. States 311 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:53,240 tariff fee of mitten state tours. Yeah. Uh, we recently witnessed a different kind of 312 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,160 gatekeeping and discussion in Michigan, overland regarding overlanding and camping in the UP 313 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:04,160 in the winter. This is also kind of gatekeeping. We can get behind and we, we want to explain 314 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,680 why the upper peninsula of Michigan is paradise for off-road enthusiasts when the season is 315 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,520 right. However, as winter blankets, the region and deep snow attempting to traverse off-road 316 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,640 trails becomes not only impractical, but also potentially dangerous. Even experienced off-roaders 317 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,340 and locals avoid these trails until after spring melt. If you're considering a winter 318 00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:30,120 overland trip in the UP, here's why you should think twice. In the end, this isn't really 319 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,440 gatekeeping. It is a fair warning to those unfamiliar with the sort of weather and snow 320 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:41,360 conditions that may many just have not experienced. Yeah. Cause the snow up there gets deep, man. 321 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:48,880 People don't realize it. The, uh, there was actually a post about this on MST. Uh, and 322 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,440 someone was asking about doing an overlanding trip here in the winter up to the UP and, 323 00:32:53,440 --> 00:33:01,800 and the general consensus by everyone was, Hey, don't, there are tons of snowmobile trails. 324 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:10,320 The other trails are extremely deep and dangerous. It's, it's not, um, it's not a place to really 325 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,000 overland. Uh, and you really need to know what you're doing and have a good plan. You 326 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,840 need to make sure the trails aren't, aren't being used by snowmobiles. That isn't offense 327 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:28,180 that is, uh, is enforced. So, and even, even if you go down a groom trail that isn't a 328 00:33:28,180 --> 00:33:32,600 marked snowmobile trail, it's marked dual use, but it's still groomed. You're not only 329 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:40,160 going to be, you know, not only will it be, it might not be illegal, but the snowmobilers 330 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,480 are going to be very p dot pissed off with you and the businesses in the area rely on 331 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,440 snowmobiles to make their money in the winter. So they're going to get pissed off with you. 332 00:33:51,440 --> 00:34:00,360 Let alone, uh, I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Let alone, it's actually dangerous for snowmobilers. 333 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,600 You're digging up, you're digging up, you know, 30 inch ruts and snow, uh, you know, 334 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:12,080 trying to get out of it because you're stuck and then it freezes or even just later in 335 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,800 the day, snowmobilers come hauling ass, which is pretty typical on these snowmobile trails. 336 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,640 They're not really looking for trucks and ORVs there. You come hauling ass and, and, 337 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:29,240 uh, and hit a 30 inch deep rut. Uh, yeah, that's a, that's a snowmobile death, um, or 338 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:34,640 severe injury. And I, it's not worth it. And we've heard of it. So we've heard of it before 339 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:42,760 2020. I was out with my father in law snowmobiling and I was, we were just bombing down a trail. 340 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:48,800 We were doing like 35, 40, cause he follows the law and follows the speed limit. So, I 341 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,640 mean, we weren't going fast, but we came up to a spot where a truck had gotten stuck and 342 00:34:53,640 --> 00:35:02,600 my, my right side ski fell down in the rut and snapped the ski off. And that was a very 343 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:09,560 pricey repair bill and, and lucky if, uh, if I'd been driving the way I drive when I'm 344 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:17,560 not with him, I would have died. Yeah. And my dad, I cruise at like 85, 90. Yeah. Yeah. 345 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:24,840 My dad had a skidoo that he was taking on a trail. Um, there was a hole in the trail. 346 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:30,520 Um, this is around, I think bath, a wasso area, but, uh, there was a hole in the trail 347 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:38,960 and he hit that and launched himself and his snowmobile, um, into the tree and snowmobile 348 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:45,120 hit the tree behind or hit the tree while he was in front of it. So I crushed him. Uh, 349 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,880 he broke his, what a tubular. Well, what is that? The first part on your main leg, uh, 350 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,320 or is that fibula, something like that. The big part of the small. Yeah. The big one. 351 00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,480 Oh, I broke the small one and didn't know it. He broke that. He broke that. He broke 352 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:07,680 a bunch of ribs. He broke an arm. He was just lucky that someone found him. Uh, because 353 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:14,320 at that time cell phones weren't super, uh, uh, super popular. There wasn't a lot of that 354 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,880 going on. So he was lucky someone found him and, uh, and he barely got out of that with 355 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:28,160 his life. So it's important to, uh, to know and plan as we said. Yeah. Snow depth is a 356 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,440 game changer. Many people from non snow regions often don't realize what it means to have 357 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,240 literally feet of snow on the ground. Even Hattieville modified off-road vehicles with 358 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:44,400 37 or 40 inch tires, front and rear rockers and experienced drivers struggle to make progress. 359 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,640 Snow wheeling is an extreme sport and it is not for those simply looking to take in the 360 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,680 scenery. For overlanders accustomed to dirt roads and scenic back country routes, winter 361 00:36:53,680 --> 00:37:00,000 in the UP is a whole different level of challenge. One that most are not prepared for deep snow. 362 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Like what you get in the UP is the one time that mud trains are good in the winter. Yep. 363 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,040 And your Subaru Crosstrek or the rooftop tent, you're stuck immediately. Why do you have 364 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:16,440 a rooftop? First off, why did you put a rooftop tent on a Subaru Crosstrek? It happens, man. 365 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,120 You see it all the time. There's one that drives around New Wago and drives me nuts. 366 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:26,400 It's not a small rooftop tent. Is that the one that's on the basket? It's not even on 367 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:32,000 like a good roof rack. Yeah. And it hangs out like two foot on either side of the car 368 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,360 and it hangs out like three foot in the front and two foot in the back. It's massive. I 369 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,920 have not seen this. I want to see it now. It looks so bad. But you get people that get a 370 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,120 Subaru Crosstrek and you know what? Nothing against you Subaru guys. You know, we love 371 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:53,840 Subarus for what they are. But oh no, I definitely have stuff against Subarus. No, shush. But 372 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,760 you know, you get guys with these little SUVs that say they're all wheel drive and then they're 373 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,280 like, oh, that means I can go anywhere. And then they there's a rooftop tent on top of their car 374 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:12,800 and then get stuck or try to do my episode of Louis. Yeah. He comes up to a trail. 375 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:19,760 This the sign says four wheel drive. Is our car four wheel drives? No, our car is all wheel drives. 376 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,400 And how many wheels do we have? Four. Yeah, that's that's exactly what they think. And look, 377 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:33,040 you know what? You know, no, don't do it. You know, I try to try to be nice and you know, 378 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,080 the half glass full kind of guy. But at the end of the day, when we're talking about UP and deep 379 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:46,080 snow like there is not uncommon for them to have three feet of snow. You know, it's it's you're 380 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:57,440 stuck. So yeah, I mean. Yeah. According to visit to visit Keweenaw, the Keweenaw snow gauge 381 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,880 is an iconic destination for travelers visiting the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. 382 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:08,160 This life size snow gauge shows the Keweenaw's record snowfall that was set during the winter 383 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:17,440 of 78 to 79. The blizzard of 78. Go figure. During that winter, the Keweenaw received 390.4 384 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:28,720 inches of snow between November and April. Yeah. In contrast. So I know Mark knows where this is, 385 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:35,120 but Gavin doesn't. So do you know when you're going to my dad's house, Mark, how you go down 386 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:40,880 that hill and then up to his house? There's like that little valley right there. Yep. So in the 387 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:48,560 winter of 78, that valley drifted over and just looked like a straight road. Oh, so that's like 388 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:56,640 what? 30 foot high there, roughly 30 or 40 feet high. That's how much snow we're talking in the 389 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,800 winter of 78. Like it was, we've never seen a blizzard like that in our lifetime. Yeah. You're 390 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:09,920 talking about two feet in a night or less or more. You know, it was, they got over, they got seven 391 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:16,480 feet in like three hours in the blizzard of 78. Yeah. Here in Grant, anyway, up in the UP, 392 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:24,640 phew, yeah, phew. Physics and weather matter. Even if some trails technically allow access, 393 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:30,320 winter conditions dictate what is actually possible. This deep snow changing temperatures 394 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:35,040 and unpredictable storms can quickly turn an off-road adventure into a rescue situation. 395 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,000 Soft snow can swallow vehicles whole and self-recovery becomes nearly impossible without 396 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,200 the right equipment and experience. When winter takes hold, it's not about what's legal. It's 397 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,520 about what's physically possible and weather always wins. Yeah. Very much so. I mean, 398 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,480 winter is for snowmobiles. Snowmobiling is a major country contributor to local economies 399 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,040 and clubs invest significant time and money into keeping those routes in top shape. When 400 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,760 off-roaders attempt to push through, even if they're just crossing a snowmobile trail, 401 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,560 they risk damaging trails that aren't meant for vehicle traffic. This can create dangerous 402 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,120 conditions and disrupt an industry that many local businesses rely on to get through the winter. 403 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,280 As just like we were talking about earlier. Oh yeah. My experience is that when you're 404 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:28,080 my coworker went up by a house up there in the UP, they went to go out to eat dinner. Every bar was 405 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,480 filled with snowmobiles. I think they gave up trying to find somewhere to eat for how busy they 406 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:39,040 were. Oh yeah. People travel from other states to come up here. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's an every 407 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:48,480 weekend thing. Every weekend? Every week? All day? It's 24-7. I lived in Calcasca, which gets a 408 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:54,160 pretty fair amount of snow, which is still in the lower peninsula. Calcasca and the trails around 409 00:41:54,160 --> 00:42:02,240 that area, which is the same kind of Cadillac area we were talking about, has significant snowmobile 410 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:07,040 trails around there. I mean, it's every weekend, everything's packed with snowmobilers. The motels 411 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:12,960 are packed. It's a major, major source of income for some of these people up there. And sometimes 412 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:19,280 it keeps them afloat so that they could survive. So this vehicle traffic, the driving off roads, 413 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:27,040 it really does impact more than just you. Right. Even locals stay off the trails. If the people who 414 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,080 live in the UP avoid these trails in the winter, that should say something. Even those familiar 415 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,360 with the terrain and accustomed to harsh conditions wait until after the spring melt before venturing 416 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,960 back into the backcountry when locals... Oh, I forgot a period there. I'm so sorry, guys. Before 417 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,680 venturing back into the backcountry. When locals who know the trails better than anyone choose to 418 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,880 stay off them, it's a clear sign that winter wheeling in the UP just isn't a good idea. Yep. 419 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,240 The verdict. Stay off the trails until spring. While winter off-roading may seem like an exciting 420 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:05,520 challenge, in the reality of the UP's extreme conditions, makes it a bad idea. For even the 421 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,760 most experienced snow wheelers with highly capable rigs, for those looking for winter adventure, 422 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,480 there are plenty of safer, more reasonable ways to enjoy the season. From snowmobiling to 423 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,520 snowshoeing or simply taking in the stunning winter landscapes from an accessible route. 424 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,400 The best time for overlanding in the UP is after the snow has melted when the trails are open, 425 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:32,640 safe and ready for exploration. Well said. Well said. Round of applause. Round of applause. 426 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:42,160 Yeah, that was a good article. Very much so. And, you know, like the title says, 427 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:50,000 it's not necessarily gatekeeping as it is a warning. Nobody wants you up there right then. 428 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:55,360 I know you want to do what you want to do, but people don't picture the amount of snow we get. 429 00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:03,040 We get like Colorado mountain type snow. The UP definitely tops Colorado mountains. 430 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,520 Right. I mean, it's like double the depth. It's significant. I mean, you got to think we have 431 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,440 lakes surrounding us. We get in Michigan what's called lake effect weather, where the lakes are 432 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:20,080 so big that they actually affect the amount of snow that we get. They generate more snow. Yeah. 433 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:26,080 Right. So the whole left band of Michigan is under lake effect. What is it? New York? 434 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:34,000 That area? Yeah. Buffalo area. You ever hear about all the crazy snow that they get over there? 435 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:42,080 That's a major contributor from the lakes. So you have to think about that. The more north you go 436 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:49,360 into Michigan, the deeper the snow. And that's pretty common. So if you want to do some snow 437 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,160 overlanding, snow wheeling, stuff like that. Do it in lower Michigan. Yeah. Try it in lower Michigan. 438 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:02,320 Try around where we're at. The Everett area is really beautiful. Cadillac, if you know where 439 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,360 you're driving, like I said, there's a lot of snowmobile trails around that area. But if you 440 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,840 plan it out well, talk to locals in the area, make sure you know what's going on. That can be 441 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,960 a very beautiful area to go to. Yeah. Cadillac. I don't know. I feel like Cadillac maybe even ever. 442 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:27,040 It depends. If it's really deep snow, honestly, just stay away. Like I love snow wheeling. Oh, 443 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:33,040 yeah. I really love driving in deep snow, but I'm also a snowmobiler and I know how pissed I get 444 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,760 when someone's torn up the trail. Yeah. Like I said, it's it comes down to a lot of planning, 445 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:44,560 but Michigan snowmobile trails are, like we already said, a large income source for 446 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,400 people in the area. And you pretty much white, pretty much White Cloud North is. Yeah. 447 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,520 It's very heavy. Yep. After White Cloud, it's really heavily dependent on snowmobilers for 448 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:06,080 income for the rest of the year. Right. So that was a good article, man. Thanks to Northology and 449 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:13,120 Sydney Pope up there. We really do appreciate the she gives us a little shout out where we like to 450 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:18,240 read our articles, gives us a good topic to kind of go off of something that we don't always think 451 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:27,920 about all the time. And it's so we still got 15 minutes. So my question is, Mark, what did you do 452 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:41,040 off road last week? We know what Gavin did. Yeah. Yeah. That's the I think the only thing off road 453 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,840 that we did was rotate my tires. What about say all we did was go hang out with Derek. 454 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:55,920 Yeah. Jeep, Derek. I would say. Yeah, I still have a shake. I don't know what it is. I'm 455 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:05,760 I'm really over it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Oh, and we planned out your new bumpers. You 456 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:12,720 want to talk about your new? Oh, yeah. So I've been trying to figure out for a while. My issue 457 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:22,720 has been with my current bumper and most bumpers for Tacoma is they so there's a subframe. I don't 458 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:29,200 remember what technically called. But I think it's your core support. I don't think it is. All it 459 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:37,120 does is hold up the skid plate. Oh, I thought it holds up the radiator. No. Oh, okay. Because I can 460 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:46,000 cut it off and doesn't affect the radiator. And the newer the third gen that does provide some 461 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:56,000 support for like your your power steering lines. Gotcha. Okay. Because in the new for the for the 462 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,480 that company when they so what I'm going to do is get a rock. 463 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,960 Right. I forget the name of the bumper. Anyways, I'm getting bumper for C4. 464 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:15,120 It essentially you get a skid plate relocation where you raise the skid plate up. So it's actually 465 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:22,080 more of a actual leveled surface and not just a weird chin underneath the bumper like most bumpers 466 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:28,960 are. So it can actually direct rocks down your bumper and then under you rather than down your 467 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:34,800 bumper and then into the skid plate mount. Yes. Yeah. Rock crawler is a bumper. I was trying to 468 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:42,320 remember what it was. Yeah. Anyways, so essentially, I'm going to get the bumper and then the 469 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:50,800 relocation delete of the crossmember raises it up and then it'll reinforce have a reinforcement 470 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,800 bracket which will keep from the bumper being pulled out like it did the last time. 471 00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,800 Yeah, because your bumper you we pulled it out once it's a good two or three inches that it's 472 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:09,920 pulled out right now. Yes. And it's twisted his not his frame. It bent the frame horn at the end 473 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:16,640 just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's that was crazy. He was he was pretty stuck though. 474 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:23,280 It's not just from that event. No, it's from multiple times. I've been commenting on it doing 475 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:29,760 something weird for a while now because one side of his bumper wasn't touching his grill and head 476 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:35,120 light and the other side was so I knew it was twisted. I just couldn't figure out why. Yep. 477 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:45,760 But what does that help is that though the clevis holding area the clevis holes is literally above 478 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:53,120 the actual frame rails. So instead of using the frame, yeah, instead of using the frames for 479 00:49:53,120 --> 00:50:04,240 support, it bends down or up off on the frame. Yeah, bad engineers, bad. But that's like most of 480 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:09,840 the bumpers like I've gone through and looked at them. Why them fixed it by reinforcing that. But 481 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,520 you look at a lot of the bumpers, they're not meant for actual off-roading like they're supposed to. 482 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,440 Oh, I just think it's a bad. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, no, you're good. Keep going because mine's off 483 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:27,920 topic. I just think it's a bad. I almost want to say it's a bad design on Toyota's part 484 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,280 because they didn't give a good spot to connect a bumper like no matter what way you look at it, 485 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:40,000 that spot is not great for adding an off-road bumper. I mean, because I think any Tacoma newer 486 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:52,000 than or 2005 and newer all plastic bumpers begin with. Right. Yeah. I mean, so is even Devon's 487 00:50:52,000 --> 00:51:00,480 one has like a hybrid metal and plastic bumper. That one was a mix or not. I just know old five 488 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,320 from office pretty much plastic bumpers. That's an off-roady thing I did. My little brother bought 489 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:18,240 a truck and I got to go with him to pick it up. It is the world's rustiest 2002 Tacoma. There you 490 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:25,840 go. Looks like hell. It's a crew cab short bed. The frame is literally one giant patch from front 491 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,400 to back, but it runs good. And for 3,500 bucks, I don't think he could beat it. No. 492 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:41,680 That's good. Let's see. Upcoming news for me. I have a going to get my winch plate from Chicago 493 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:54,880 here Sunday. I have a run up in Gladwin Saturday. There's an MST event. Yeah. There's two of them 494 00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:02,480 actually going on. There's a Bronco run, MST event run, and Mike invited me to the Bronco run. So 495 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,440 I was going to go to Nolan's. He's a member of the MST. He's got a little open house or house 496 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:16,560 housewarming party. I was going to go to that, but with the kid having a RSV, we're going to 497 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:22,560 try to stay away from people and we're going to do that. That run up is going to be a little 498 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:28,720 and we're going to do that. That run instead, probably Saturday, hoping pray I don't break 499 00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:35,760 anything. Yeah. I pretty happy for Nolan. His life seems to be turning around pretty good. 500 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:44,080 He's also a no agenda douche bag. So I have a really deep connection with him. He's a good guy. 501 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:51,280 He's a good guy. And I met him on MST on one of the trail rides. He's got a kid and, 502 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,840 you know, we, we, we bonded pretty good. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of good people out here 503 00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:01,440 that do off-roading, they have kids and it's always nice to see someone else doing it too. 504 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:09,200 And his avalanche is, it's obviously capable because he spends all his time in end of the world. 505 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:15,920 And that's like the most hardcore mudding you can do in our area. So if anybody knows 506 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,800 Nolan, they know that he likes his mud puddles. He swerves for them while we all swerve around 507 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:30,640 him. He's a, he's swamp team East and me and Mark are team West. Yup. Yup. They, that, that they are. 508 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:39,680 I don't like to participate in swamp meets, but I've seen you in some pretty swampy shit though. 509 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,720 Yeah. You know what? I seem to be getting myself into more issues lately. I don't know if I'm just 510 00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:51,840 getting cocky or you guys are bad influences. I think that you got a little bit of confidence 511 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:57,600 and now you think that you're unstoppable. Yeah. Well, I know I was, I was humbled. 512 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:06,080 I know I'm not unstoppable, but that was me. That was me back in May before I, you know, sunk my truck 513 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:11,760 in Grumman Island. Yeah. No, I'm not even chancing that, but I did want to bring up something that 514 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:18,480 you guys just want one thank you to the, to listeners. We really appreciate you guys listening 515 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:23,600 in on our podcast. We know it's still a work in progress and it's getting better every episode, 516 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,520 but I did want to do a little, do a little thank you. We, I don't know if you guys noticed this, 517 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:37,440 but we have 61 downloads on one of our, our radio chatter episode. What's your favorite 518 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:42,320 mod to your rig? So that's the, that's the highest amount of downloads that we've had on any of our 519 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:51,680 episodes yet. It's pretty exciting to see us up there at least. You know, it's not just that one. 520 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,520 Like we have a lot of episodes in the last month that are like over 40. Yeah. Yeah. We're starting 521 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:07,040 to pick up a little bit in the last 30 days. We've had 342, which is 77% up from the last month. So, 522 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:13,600 and I was on snail trail. So snail trail. Yeah. Clearly we're doing something. Yeah. I mean, 523 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,960 we've had a couple of guys like Benji Ward, Cindy Pope. Was it a traveling with cars or 524 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:28,160 shooting cars, shooting cars. Sorry. But we've had some, honestly for this, just beginning a podcast, 525 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:35,040 we've had some really good guests already. So it's, it's exciting to see that this is starting to, 526 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,240 starting to pay off. We're starting to gain a little bit of traction. We're seeing people 527 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:45,920 download from other countries. Crazy, crazy amount of spread that we're getting in that area. But 528 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:51,040 this, this is when we find out that all the downloads are actually bots and the internet's 529 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:58,880 dead and we're just the only ones pumping real content in. Oh man. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's 530 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:04,320 cool. I mean, we got most of our downloads, obviously from America, but we got, we got some 531 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,520 speckled around, man. It's, it's cool to see it. Cool to see it in other countries. 532 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,760 It's, we just want to thank you guys, man. Thanks for listening, putting up with us 533 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:24,320 being dumb or rambling and stick with it. And thanks for listening to me get drunk almost 534 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,320 every single Wednesday, whether you realize it or not. Yeah. Yeah. You, and you might, 535 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:38,320 you might realize it. I, this episode they may, I am pretty sloshed. Oh gosh. So I'm, I'm, 536 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,400 I had to go and take a break because I'm been drinking water like crazy, but that's, 537 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:48,000 like, it's going out of style. All of a sudden, when you drink a lot of water, you have to pee 538 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:54,480 a lot and it's kind of, it's kind of dumb, honestly. I purposely have not broken the seal, 539 00:56:54,480 --> 00:57:00,560 but I got to pee so bad, but I know once I do, I won't stop. Yeah. Well, Hey, well that's, that's, 540 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:06,320 maybe we should go let you go pee then. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for joining me guys. 541 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:25,680 Yep. This was a really good episode. Yep. And we appreciate you guys listening in. 542 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:50,800 I'm just curious who listens all the way to the end. So if you listen all the way to the end, 543 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:59,680 either write into our Facebook group or boost in and let me know. And maybe I'll send you a 544 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:05,680 sticker or something. I don't know. But yeah, just let me know if you listened all the way to the end 545 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:15,040 and we'll see what happens.