1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,840 Welcome to Botches Off-Road. 2 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,800 Join us as we talk about everything from gear reviews to trail stories, tent camping to 3 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,940 rock climbing and all things to do with the outdoors. 4 00:00:24,940 --> 00:00:30,960 Today is a very, very special episode. And when we have the one and only Cindy Pope, 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,400 how are we doing today, Cindy? 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,920 I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on. 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:42,880 Yeah. We're super glad, super stoked. You're our second celebrity to be on here. First 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:53,720 being Benji Ward. And he did a newfound overland and he's got that podcast and which was formerly 9 00:00:53,720 --> 00:01:00,400 budget overlaying. And he was really cool to talk to as well. But we have some really, 10 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,840 really cool questions that we wanted to ask you today. And I guess let's start out for 11 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:11,080 some of the listeners that may or may have not heard of you. Who are you and kind of 12 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,080 how did you get into to overlaning and camping in general? 13 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:26,120 Oh, hi, I'm Cindy and I run and founded Northology Adventures. I've been camping since probably 14 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:35,720 I was a baby. My parents were very lower middle-class. My mom stayed at home. My dad worked and our 15 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:41,720 camping or our, excuse me, our vacations were all camping because state parks were free. 16 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:49,720 So in the budget overlanding theme or vein there, it was basically a way for our family 17 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:55,880 to get out and have fun. We had a cool little pop-up camper that we towed behind at one 18 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:04,940 point a Pinto, not a wagon, but a Ford Pinto. Yeah. And with a like an 18 foot aluminum 19 00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:14,160 Grumman canoe on top. My brother and I, my uncle, my mom, my dad, and I was an old English 20 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,920 sheep dog going through the needles highway. 21 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:23,040 Now you all didn't fit in that Pinto, right? Someone had to ride in the camper. 22 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:30,480 No. They remember it was a hatchback. Yeah. And so either my little brother or the dog 23 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,880 was in the hatchback. And my uncle said that the best seat in the house on the, in that 24 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Pinto was the passenger seat. Cause you weren't driving and you weren't squished in the back 25 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,800 with the other kids. Yeah. And you had, you know, you did have control of your little 26 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:53,040 vent there. There's no air conditioning and driving to South Dakota kind of sucked, especially 27 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:59,960 in the summer. Yeah. I always was into that kind of, you know, outdoorsy stuff. My, my 28 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:06,400 dad and mom also got into whitewater canoeing and mountain biking. And so I kind of followed 29 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:13,320 them doing that. And as a older, not a young adult, an older adult, I started sharing my 30 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,520 adventures and I would get people reaching out. Well, where are you doing that? You know, 31 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:25,860 how can I do that? And it just all kind of snowballed from there, I guess. 32 00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:32,340 And you've done some pretty cool stuff though. I mean, you, not only you founded Northology, 33 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:40,980 you founded Core and that's the Q and A Overland Adventure retreat. Right. And, and now you 34 00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:49,700 have Overland the Red, which I actually didn't know where that was until earlier. And how, 35 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:52,240 how did you kind of get into the Overland the Red? 36 00:03:52,240 --> 00:04:01,120 Well, it kind of go back, goes back to Core. When I first started promoting that, a gentleman, 37 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:08,400 ha, he'll laugh if he hears me call him a gentleman. This guy, Jeremiah from Overland 38 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,560 pioneers contacted me and he said, Hey, I love the UP. We were just up there and I'd 39 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,480 love to come to your event. Could I come film it and, you know, get a ticket to the event? 40 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,640 I was like, who is this guy? I have no idea. But I'm like, you know what? I'm not going 41 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:30,760 to film it. And his videos look pretty cool. So he came up and did a nice video review 42 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:38,000 of it. He was a really cool guy to meet. Love him and his wife. They came up and every year 43 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:45,620 he's done a video. After a couple of years, he's like, you know, Kentucky's pretty cool. 44 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:50,360 You should probably come down and check it out and ride some of the off-road trails. 45 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,760 And you should probably do an event down here. So that's how that got started. 46 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Yeah, it's very cool. And I guess not to, not to backtrack, but what kind of got you, 47 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:08,560 I mean, you said it kind of started posting and I'm assuming you started with Northology 48 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,200 and then you kind of arranged the Core from that? 49 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:21,160 Yeah. I started just posting my adventures on Instagram and went a little farther and 50 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:28,640 I built a website. And then I, you know, when you're, when you're driving through the UP 51 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:34,720 and you're passing by the, you know, through the towns or out on the trail, you see somebody 52 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,840 in a cool rig. I just like, I thought, man, we got to kind of, I don't know, do an event 53 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:48,760 and get all these people together. Just like share this beautiful location and meet these 54 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:54,040 fun people that are driving around camping in the woods or on the lake and all those 55 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:01,240 weirdos. Yeah. All those, I call them scottal nerds. Yeah. All the people that, you know, 56 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:09,040 are into the same stuff you're in. And I just, I just started from there. 57 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:17,240 What year was that? The first one I believe was 2018. So before that big 2020 overland 58 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:23,800 takeoff. Oh yeah. It was before COVID and actually it's funny that you mentioned that 59 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,800 because I feel like COVID was the best thing that ever happened in my business. Anything, 60 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:38,140 you know, bad that happened to anybody else. No, it was, I had just this month, five years 61 00:06:38,140 --> 00:06:45,280 ago, I quit my real job. Wow. He sent me a text. He says, I believe in you. It's time, 62 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,960 which we always knew I was going to, but he was just like, this is it. Go for it. You 63 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:54,040 just had a good feeling, I guess. Yeah. And I felt like when we were both on the same 64 00:06:54,040 --> 00:07:02,840 page to do that, it would be beneficial. So I quit and I booked a whole bunch of events. 65 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:06,840 I was going to do this like camp cooking. We had a friend that was a chef that made 66 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:14,040 fried chicken over the campfire. We scheduled all these events and then, you know, what 67 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:21,200 happened in February, March, they told everybody to stay home. So at that point it was like, 68 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:27,120 holy crap, I've quit my job. I have no job. I just have this event, one event core, which 69 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,800 I've done twice and I'm not sure it's going to be able to happen this year. What am I 70 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,640 going to do now? So I had some friends that were like, well, you know, they've always 71 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,960 been saying that she's started a magazine. You should start a magazine. Well, nobody 72 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:46,240 reads magazines, but apparently they do. And so I was, you know, sit at home because of 73 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:54,320 the stay at home orders. And I started the magazine. And so again, like I said, I wouldn't 74 00:07:54,320 --> 00:08:01,440 have had the time to do that had they not like told everybody to not go anywhere. Yeah. 75 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:07,920 Do you edit the magazine yourself or do you have an editor? Oh, I added it myself. It 76 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:15,340 is so well done. Yeah, it is. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Well, so, you know, I'm not the best 77 00:08:15,340 --> 00:08:20,040 proofreader and sometimes things sneak through. And when I get, you know, I go through, I'm 78 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:26,040 like, oh crap, or somebody says something to me. I can sneak in and re-upload the correction 79 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:35,280 seamlessly. So nobody else. I do that too. No, it's a, yeah, no, I, I checked it out 80 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:41,680 a few times and really started reading into it and like, wow, this is, and I, I thought, 81 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:46,360 I thought you had an editor and everything I did not. I'm wow. That's a, that's crazy. 82 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:52,680 Well, it is crazy because I do everything. You know, I, I, I, I sell the advertising. 83 00:08:52,680 --> 00:09:00,440 I look for writers. I do write occasionally for it. And then, yeah, I put it all together 84 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:09,980 and yeah, it's, it's a lot of work, but I love doing it. Right. And so when COVID started 85 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:15,840 and we were worried about this, you started an orthology. When, when did you decide or 86 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:22,320 when did I guess everybody decide that core could happen again? And I guess my question 87 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:28,280 from that is, is how was that for, where was it at that point? And how has it changed since 88 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:42,200 then? Well, we had hosted core the previous two years at, oh, there was an Atlantic mine. 89 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,080 Why can I think of the name of the place? North winds adventures. We had hosted it there 90 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:53,040 twice. I had, there was a fellow in Michigan, overland Rob is there with, he was working 91 00:09:53,040 --> 00:10:00,720 there and Rob has since passed away. Like here's one for you, buddy. Miss you. But he 92 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,600 was working there and he always wanted to do an overland event. So I'm like, I'm coming 93 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:10,640 up to check your place out. And so I came up, we hit it off. We, we hosted core a couple 94 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:16,640 times at North winds, but my good buddy Todd with TC teardrops is into mountain biking 95 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,120 and he goes to get a check out trails and it's okay. It's all about mountain biking. 96 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,760 It's, it's beautiful. It's rustic. So I went up there and chatted with John at trails end 97 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:32,760 and I fell in love with the place. And of course, you know, this is that year where 98 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:39,840 we don't know if it's going to happen, but I kept like, I just tried to keep up on the 99 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,940 news and be positive and optimistic. Cause I really, I don't care what your political 100 00:10:44,940 --> 00:10:50,280 beliefs are, but I was just like to myself, I'm like, this isn't going to affect me. You 101 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:58,640 know, outdoor events. Yep. It's not in the winter. Um, you know, we're not going to be 102 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:04,480 inside anywhere. Yeah. I kept in contact with the campground owner and he was like, we're 103 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:10,160 not shut down. The state hasn't told us we can't be open. Yeah. And I was watching, you 104 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,880 know, they had all the bulletins and all that crap, you know, whatever threat level it was. 105 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:22,600 And I realized that, you know, they never said outdoor events couldn't happen. Like 106 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,300 I think there was a perp, like so many people, like if it was under a hundred or whatever, 107 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:34,720 there were no restrictions. Yeah. And so I just, oh, go ahead. My family runs a campground 108 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,080 and we never, I don't ever remember us having to shut down in 2020 or 2020. Yeah. Yeah. 109 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:47,280 Um, basically I just, I just kept my finger on the pulse as best I could and hoped for 110 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:53,720 the best and, and went forward with it. And worst case scenario, if the law said we couldn't 111 00:11:53,720 --> 00:12:00,240 do it, you know, I just refund everybody's tickets, right. Which would hurt, but yeah. 112 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,520 Yeah. I mean, there are some sunk costs in there even just running off to it, but I'm 113 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:13,160 sure also everyone would have completely understood. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and so, I mean, it's 114 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:19,060 grown obviously since then quite a bit. Um, I, and like you said, COVID, I think for the 115 00:12:19,060 --> 00:12:24,920 outdoor community, kind of, I think it kind of made everything go crazy. I mean, overlanding 116 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:31,200 four by four hiking, uh, my wife and I do backpacking hiking and that's kind of when 117 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:37,880 we started doing it again. Um, I did it originally and we started doing it at that point. Um, 118 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,360 I bought a truck and started wanting to car camp and that's kinda, I started looking around 119 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,720 and started seeing all this crazy stuff about whatever overlanding is. And it's kind of 120 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:55,400 when I got into it. So, I mean, so from all these new people coming in, how, how crazy 121 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,400 did it get? 122 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:03,560 Well, um, it got to one point where we sold out when the tickets went on sale, we sold 123 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:11,040 out in like 20 minutes. Wow. Like the first year I, we didn't sell out. I was, you know, 124 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:18,640 I think we had like maybe 75 people there, but I was happy that we launched it and that 125 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,400 it happened. That was the hurdle of my life was launching an event and having happened. 126 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:31,360 Um, but yeah, it seems like the third or fourth year, it just started selling out like, boom. 127 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:38,040 Um, and, uh, we had a wait list of like a hundred people. Um, and as far as it growing, 128 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:46,600 yes, it's grown, but, um, we have finite space where we are at trails. There are only so 129 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,680 many campsites. Um, there are some small areas where we call flex camping, where people can 130 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:58,360 group camp, you know, there's not a fire pit for everyone, but you know, um, they all camp 131 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,360 together next to the lake and it seems to work out pretty good. Uh, but there's only 132 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:08,880 so much we can grow in Copper Harbor and we're at the point where, you know, we get 175, 133 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,480 200 people in there and that's about it. 134 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:17,160 Oh, sure. Yeah. So yeah, you're right. You're right there at the, uh, max capacity there. 135 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Mm-hmm. And you know, the town, think about the town of Copper Harbor. There's only a 136 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:27,320 hundred permanent residents. Right. That's what I was just going to say. Yeah. So it 137 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:32,600 is two weekends after labor day. It's really, you know, some businesses closed down after 138 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:39,720 labor day there. Um, it's, it gets quieter. Um, we feel like we bring a little, um, infusion 139 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:46,840 of life and, and business to them on a weekend that's not in the peak season. Um, but also, 140 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,320 you know, if we had five people and 500 people there, I think it would be overwhelming. 141 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:59,960 I, yeah, I can see that. And so you started doing all of this and I guess I missed one 142 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:07,840 of the biggest questions as far as I'm concerned as being a newer overlander, um, is kind of, 143 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,220 you said you started it. Um, well, I guess you started getting into this when you were 144 00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:17,220 very young, when you, your, your parents, when you started getting into this, did you 145 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:24,280 start with camping? Did you start with your, uh, I mean, and I mean solo or, or with your 146 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:31,600 husband, did you start camping or is it, how did you end up starting it? Well, I, this 147 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,520 is going to sound so stupid, but do you remember the first terminator movie when Sarah Connor 148 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:44,000 at the end is sitting in her Jeep with the top off and the German shepherd next door? 149 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Yep. I don't remember how old I was, but I said to myself, I want to be that. I want 150 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:57,560 that jeep, that dog. And so when I finally was able to get my Jeep, I started going off 151 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:03,440 road. I joined a group. Um, I almost didn't go on this, uh, trail ride they had cause 152 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,320 I thought, Oh, it's just going to be a bunch of dude bros that I'll have nothing in common 153 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:14,240 with and it'll be terrible and I'll hate it. Cause I'm like this old lady, you know? Uh, 154 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:21,360 it was a lot of fun. I'm glad I went. And so, um, I ended up hosting, uh, or cohosting 155 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:27,500 a lot of Jeep camps. Um, at one point we had like 300 Jeeps and it was just basically, 156 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:33,200 you know, pitch in five bucks for porta potties or whatever. Yep. Right. Bring them in and 157 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:38,280 then we go out and ride the trails. It wasn't like a moneymaking thing, but you know, it 158 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,960 was, as far as the core event went, I was like, you know, um, I have a bunch of people 159 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,200 that are, you know, messaging me, asking me questions and needing and wanting an event 160 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:55,200 like that. Um, so let's, let's create it. So you started a Jeep. Are you still in a 161 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:03,360 Jeep right now? I am not in a Jeep still. No, I had 2015, uh, four door Wrangler Sahara. 162 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:11,240 Um, they had the heated seats. I don't give a shit about lockers. There wasn't, there 163 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:17,240 weren't many places I couldn't go and I had a winch when I got in trouble. So that's very 164 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:25,320 yeah, I loved it. I loved camping out of it. I ended up having like a ARB awning on the 165 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,600 side with the room and then a short, a small four foot air be awning off the back, which 166 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:36,720 was awesome. I can't find those anymore. Um, and I would just mostly me because again, 167 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,040 my husband would come along sometimes and he had, he's had his moments where he's like, 168 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:47,080 I really want to go camping, but it's, it's, it's my like life and it's not his life. He 169 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:53,440 does it every once in a while, but it was mostly me, um, bothering my friends up in 170 00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:03,680 the up and just, uh, just enjoying the outdoors. Sure. I'd just rather be outside and barefoot. 171 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,880 Absolutely. Yeah. I think we're all with you on that. And so you started in the Jeep. Uh, 172 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:18,160 what are you running right now? Right now I have a 2019 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X. Um, 173 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:24,840 it's got a lift from all dogs off road, Tony shocks. I think it's the parabolic leaves. 174 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,240 I have to check. I always ask Ian if there I'm like, what do I have again? Cause I'm 175 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:35,920 like, I'm not a gear nerd or a truck nerd. Sure. Um, but, uh, yeah, I love it. Um, I've 176 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:42,560 got a soft topper on it right now. I have a trucked bed rack that works really good 177 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:50,880 with that soft topper underneath it. Um, and then I pull a TC teardrops off road expedition. 178 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:58,620 Uh, one of their lifted. I see. I'm a, I'm stalking your Instagram right now and that 179 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:05,640 teardrop is really cool. It's freaking cool stuff about those guys. It is freaking sweet. 180 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:13,200 Now are you stalking my personal or the, the North ology? Uh, rock river Cindy. That's 181 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:21,000 my personal personal. Good job. Yeah. That's a, that's too hard to follow or figure out, 182 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,200 but yeah, that's a, I love that. If I'm correct, they're one of your sponsors or one of your 183 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:34,240 key sponsors, right? Yeah. They're actually title sponsor of core for the last five years. 184 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:40,520 Yeah. Wow. And, uh, yeah, they're, they're awesome people. I, I'm going to tell you, 185 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,120 if you want to learn about customer service, if you're a business owner, just follow and 186 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:52,440 watch what they do. They will, you know, people buy TC's on the secondary market used and 187 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,680 then all up Todd and Carol and say, Hey, I've got this issue. Do they take care of these 188 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:03,680 people even though they didn't buy the T the trailer from them? They're so responsive. 189 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:10,000 They're so, I don't know. They're just, they're just a model exempt example of what, how business 190 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,640 customer service should be. Yeah. Well, and you'll love to hear it, especially in the 191 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,920 overlaying community. We like to promote the, the companies that stand out and actually 192 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,280 provide that kind of service. Absolutely. And they care about the community and that's 193 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,960 why they sponsor stuff like this. You know, they're coming up this weekend. We're doing, 194 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:41,360 and it's, it's a Wisconsin Oberlin. I also admin that like events. We've got a PF good, 195 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:48,320 rich, outstanding trails grant to do the tread lightly cleanup in the Nicolay this weekend 196 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:55,320 and they're bringing some giveaways. They're bringing some stuff to help out where we're 197 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:01,840 providing lunch. And they're just always, I don't know, they're always there and they, 198 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:09,280 they really care about the community and it's not just for sales. Sure. Oh, absolutely. 199 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,920 And I mean, I guess speaking of sponsors, who, who do you typically, you have some of 200 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:22,040 the bigger names at this event? Who's, who do you usually have? Well, this past year 201 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:29,560 we had of course, TC teardrops. We had a scout camper dealer. Nook overland was there with 202 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:36,080 us. Black rhino wheels. Shout out to Chris. He brings a set of, he gives away a set of 203 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,920 wheels. That's a big giveaway. Yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. Yeah. We've had victory four 204 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:54,620 by four. JCR off road. We've had X venture trailer. Yeah. Big names. Yeah. And X ventures 205 00:21:54,620 --> 00:22:02,880 from Wisconsin. That's the big takeaway there is they are also interested in the local stuff. 206 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,880 Yeah. That's local. That's a, that's a, yeah. I mean, I, I personally have not been to one 207 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:15,240 of these cores. It's been on my checklist for, I don't know how long. Every time that 208 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,720 I think that I can go, something happens. Someone throws a monkey wrench in my plans 209 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:27,040 and that changes. But I think as a group, we're going to try to do that next year. You 210 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,720 really should. And just one more thing on the, the sponsors, if I could. Oh, absolutely. 211 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,600 You know, we're talking about core cause you know, we're all North like Midwest based, 212 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:45,600 but at the last Overland, the red, we had a local large auto dealership, Dan Cummins 213 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:52,080 auto. They were our title, title sponsor. That's cool. X grid campers was there. Oh, 214 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:58,960 wow. Second year. Cotty Wampel Overland comes in for this, for the third year. And we've 215 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:09,600 had a dirt bound from Minnesota, North overland. We had nook again, their Becker supply, dry 216 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:20,240 Fox towels. Oh, radio chatter. Yeah. Radio chats there did a year before. So yeah, I 217 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:27,780 did post some sponsors, our partners that weren't there that support us with giveaways 218 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:35,400 and whatnot. And another one, big one of those is Midland USA swag to put in the bags and 219 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:43,200 radios to give away. They've been super supportive. I think we all run the MX twos, what 275. 220 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:51,400 They sent us a 75 to get away at Overland the red this year. I've got the first MXT 275 221 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,840 that I pre-ordered in 2019. Nice. Yep. And I have the one that I just got like six months 222 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,520 ago and you know what? They're still just as good. I mean, they're, their quality has 223 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,960 been really good. I have not had any issues. Alex hasn't had any issues. Oh, I have issues 224 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:13,360 all the time. Well, that's because my, yeah, that was gonna say, yeah. And in fact, I had 225 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,040 a friend that bought the 275 and they're like, Oh, this radio is crap or something wrong 226 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,880 with it. And I said, email them, just, you know, let them know you're having problems. 227 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,800 And within a week they had a brand new one and it works great. There was just, you know, 228 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,840 something wrong and they got the chance to take care of it. And they did. Yeah. I would 229 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:38,280 say my first probably four years with that radio were rock solid. Um, this year I'm starting 230 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,120 to have little issues like the mic is starting to die and the, the button doesn't quite click 231 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:50,400 when you press it. Yeah. But I think for four years on what they, what they cost and for 232 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,760 what they are. Yeah. That's an absolutely, that's a great lifespan. And the fact that 233 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,960 it's not dead yet is even better. I still use it every day. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 234 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:07,680 I have the 400 and I think I do want to do the 275 or the 575 just cause I like the idea 235 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,720 of all the controls being in the mic. It is nice. I have one on my a pillar and it just 236 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:18,560 kind of, I have an external speaker because I'm deaf and, uh, not really, but I need it 237 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,720 so that I can hear, uh, and, and that works really well. But yeah, I mean, having everything 238 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,600 right there at your hands is definitely the preferred way to go. And I'd originally had 239 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:37,080 mine in a 97 F three 50 and there's like nowhere good to mount a radio in those trucks. No. 240 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:48,320 So and I had a, a 96 E three 50. Yeah. It was loud. Yeah. And the four 60 in it. Oh 241 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:55,120 yeah. And it would always blow the, the manifold gasket. So I was always like, brrrr. That 242 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:59,360 sounds about right. Yep. Mine was the hood stacked power stroke and you couldn't hear 243 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:06,080 anything over that thing. Yeah. No. Couldn't even hear your own thoughts. But I mean, so 244 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,760 that's, I mean, that's really, really cool. I mean, the sponsors are obviously a really 245 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,160 big part of it and it's really cool that we have such large name brand sponsors that are 246 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,500 willing to, uh, come back year after year and that kind of speaks to the event and how 247 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:29,400 great it is. Yeah. And also, yeah, the, I think that there are, there's a sentiment that, 248 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:36,160 you know, the expos you can talk to people, you know, rapid fire, you get two minutes 249 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,740 with everybody. Um, Chris from black rhino wrote a really nice article and he posted 250 00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:48,280 on his LinkedIn profile, unprompted, just, he just felt led that, Hey, you know, these 251 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,640 smaller events are where the core enthusiasts goes. Oh yeah. And you can have really great 252 00:26:54,640 --> 00:27:01,560 conversations with them. You can form relationships with people. You can show them what their, 253 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,500 your product does or looks like, or performs out on the trail. Cause you get time together 254 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:14,040 with people to go out and have fun. And you know, I've had people ask me, Hey, did X, 255 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,320 Y, and Z company, where they at core last year? And they didn't know cause they didn't 256 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,960 go, but I was like, yeah. And they're like, okay, I'm buying from them because they support 257 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:29,160 this community. Oh yes, absolutely. So that's, that's really, I don't know. It's, it's, I 258 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:38,280 did something really stupid. You guys the other day and AI made me cry because I went 259 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:44,940 and asked it, there was some Instagram thing was like, ask AI like based on what, you know, 260 00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:48,840 our prior interactions, what is something about me that I might know? And then it like 261 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:55,120 tells you based on what you've interacted with it, you know, how they are, how you should, 262 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:03,240 and it just basically talked about the community. Like, you know, how much it means to, to create 263 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,680 that and how much, you know, my co-founder from core that was his driving force was create 264 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:19,400 community and just all the, what good flows out of that when you lift everybody up. Oh, 265 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:25,040 absolutely. I think core is one of those that for the state of Michigan really changed. 266 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:31,400 Off-roading and with four wheels in the state of Michigan, I think like no other. Wow. I've 267 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:38,880 never heard anybody say that, but that, that's kind of mind blowing. I mean, as far as like 268 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,920 all of these off road groups, I'm a part of, I mean, probably most Michigan off-road groups 269 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,480 and a lot of the bigger off-road groups around the country and core is very well known. Everybody 270 00:28:50,480 --> 00:29:00,200 knows and is core the biggest overland expo in the Midwest. I, you have the more, which 271 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:07,480 is, which is close, right? I mean, does that even count as Midwest or yeah. More is the 272 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:13,840 Midwest off-road and no Midwest overland and off-road expo. And I'm actually heavily involved 273 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:22,360 in more, right? I think core is probably the second most. Well, it's, it may not be the 274 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:28,440 biggest, but it's the second best. How's that? It's the best. I know. I, I think it's the 275 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,840 bestest, but I hear a lot about how great core is and a lot of people say we should 276 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,800 go. So, well, you probably shouldn't go. I mean, don't get your hopes up. We're not, 277 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:45,960 you know, we're not like, you know, waking people up at 6 a.m. Reveille and lining them 278 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,680 up to go out on trail rides. And you know, it's, it's very relaxed laid back vibe. I 279 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,120 think that's what we want. And I think, I think, I think for the community of just getting 280 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:01,920 started, I think that's what people need. Oh yeah. That's not, that's waking people 281 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:07,040 up at six and get them lined up and rolling. That's not for newbies. It's not for beginners 282 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,880 and it's not for all folks. It's not there's, that's a separate event. Yeah. And I think, 283 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:18,720 I think doing that introduces, like I have a, I have a young son, 11 months old and a 284 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,880 wife and we've just started to get into this and I would not be going to one of those events. 285 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:30,920 Core is, is different. It's, and I've heard you say this on another podcast about how 286 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,960 relaxed it is. And that's exactly what we would be looking for as a family. And bringing 287 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,160 future generations, my son into it. That's bringing my wife into it. She now likes to 288 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:50,160 it. I mean, it does, it has a massive connection and you working with, like Tread Lightly to 289 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:56,600 clean up and preserve our trails is, is super important too. And it's just such a big impact 290 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:03,280 that, you know, I guess at one point you could have said it was maybe a small get together 291 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:11,160 is no longer, you know, such a big impact for 200 spots. You know what I mean? Yeah. 292 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,760 I appreciate that. And you know, we just, I always feel like every event I do has to 293 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:23,960 have an angle where we do give back, you know? And it is a great event for newbies, both 294 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,200 core and overland the red. Although with overland the red, you got to be careful what trails 295 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,160 you go on because I'm going to tell you Kentucky hard and Kentucky easy are different than 296 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,520 Michigan hard and Michigan easy. Oh yeah. There's no, there's no hard here. World. Yeah. That's 297 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:47,640 true. There isn't. Yes. I, uh, most of my off road experience is Arizona and Utah. So 298 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,760 when I compare Michigan to out there, we've got nothing hard here. No, no, we got nothing. 299 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,880 Well and that's good. And you did cover a lot of that. Um, a lot of what, I guess what 300 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:08,720 I want to ask as far as why core is, is so good for people to go to. Um, I mean, I don't 301 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:15,280 know. I guess my question would be other than for the newer families, for the other people 302 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,280 that have more off roading experience, what are they expecting when they go to core? Why, 303 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:29,440 are they going? What are they expecting when they get there? Um, I think it's, I love that 304 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,840 you asked this because somebody asked at the last core, you know, how many people have 305 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:40,680 been here before and how many are new. And there's always going to be a lot of new people, 306 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,640 but we have people that come back every year and you know, they've been doing this now 307 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,040 for seven years. We, we had a guy and a gal Jordan and Kate shut. That was their seventh 308 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:57,520 core and I let him or made him light the bonfire and give him the honor. Um, but I feel like 309 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:03,560 I know that there are people that are hardcore wheelers that come to core. Um, and they know 310 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,440 that that's not the experience they're going to get. Sure. There's a couple of trails that 311 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:14,000 give you a little bit of a thrill. Um, you know, uh, but it's a beautiful area. So they 312 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:21,440 come to, to, you know, enjoy the natural beauty. Um, you know, this year we had, uh, open skies 313 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:29,560 project tours that we did. Um, and also we included, um, we, we struck a deal with Delaware 314 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,160 mind tours. They gave us a little discount and anybody that wanted to go, uh, to Delaware 315 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:41,400 mine and tour that we paid for that. And there's all sorts of hiking to do there. Um, there's 316 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,760 people went sea kayaking out on Lake Superior. Um, there's mountain biking. There's a huge 317 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,760 core of mountain bikers that come to core. Um, and so it's, it's a, it's a base camp 318 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,680 where it's an adventure base camp mostly, you know, it's not a hard core off road event. 319 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:05,200 Um, although, you know, there are people that if you're a newbie, those trails will challenge 320 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:11,000 you and get you a little bit out of your comfort zone and, and you can grow and get some seat 321 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,040 time and it's valuable, uh, whether you are a newbie or a seasoned veteran. 322 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:23,520 Yeah. For everybody for a long time, there was a trail there in Q and O that maybe even 323 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,440 today I would say it's my absolute favorite trail. I don't know what number it is, but 324 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,240 it's just, everything's tight and it's mud the entire way. And then all of a sudden it's 325 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:38,840 all off camber and you got to go through like down trees and stuff. And it's so fun. I don't 326 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:49,360 know. Um, that mud just, oh, I just not a big mud. I do like camber. It's mud, it's 327 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:55,160 water, but it's hard underneath. So it's not like you're going to get stuck. Yeah. That's 328 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,860 one thing before I knew before I learned, I went up and visited Rob and he was telling 329 00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:04,560 me some places to go and he goes, now when you get to this puddle or this road, there's 330 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,180 a lot of puddles on them and they're deep and they're going to be scary, but they're 331 00:35:09,180 --> 00:35:13,080 all hard bottom. Yeah. That's the biggest thing is hard bottom. I have no problem going 332 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:19,760 through my FJ. If I can find that trail real quick. But I mean, what you were saying earlier 333 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:26,840 about it being for everybody, that's kind of, kind of an adventure Mecca right there. 334 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:32,840 And the UP is great for that. Um, so when you started and doing your trail rides up 335 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,000 there, have they changed at all? I mean, I know, I know from your podcast, you mentioned 336 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:43,280 high rock Bay at that podcast and high rock Bay had changed quite a bit. Have you noticed 337 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:53,720 trail changes as far as like shut downs or, or major trail changes in general? Well, um, 338 00:35:53,720 --> 00:36:01,960 a nice thing is the trail to fish Cove now has a large parking area. Um, before you could 339 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:08,720 barely get back there, it was mostly an ATV trail, uh, is very tight and, um, very pin 340 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:16,040 stripey. Um, so that's nice. Um, now I know that Clark mine road, um, they've put a gate 341 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,880 up there and are intermittently closing and opening it. I think for the summer they've 342 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,360 closed, they closed it and then they opened it in the fall. Uh, but they had put one of 343 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,920 those car counters on the road and reports were that there were over 200 cars a day. 344 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:37,360 They using Clark mine road. Oh my God. Big whoops. Sorry. I never thought that was a 345 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:44,040 terrible thing. Um, but that's a really pretty road and it's, it's a shame that we can't 346 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,520 go out there on that when it's, when the gates closed. Um, you know, they're, they're putting 347 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,200 in the bike trail. So there is a little bit more traffic out there. Um, they're going 348 00:36:54,200 --> 00:37:04,840 to, I think there are plans to completely improve the road to high rock bay. Um, uh, 349 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:14,520 I think plans are for official state camping out there. Yeah, they do have now there's 350 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:21,720 a pit toilets there and garbage receptacles. And there's also a garbage bearproof garbage 351 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:29,960 receptacle by Schlatter Lake. Uh, so that's, those improvements are nice. Um, it's a shame 352 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,000 that they're necessary because people can't keep themselves, they can't pick up themselves 353 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,640 and they can't stop crapping in the woods and leaving their TP flowers everywhere. 354 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,880 EP flowers that still don't like white flowers. Yeah. Well, it just pisses me. Oh yeah. It 355 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:54,360 pisses me off too. Like, I'm sorry. I even like, I, I picked up after my dog and somebody 356 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,560 was like, what are you doing that bear shit in the woods too? Well, they don't eat the 357 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,600 dog food. You never know. It's not a natural thing in their environment. I pick it up. 358 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,320 If I can pick up my dog's poop, I can pick up my own. Sorry to be gross, but it's no, 359 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,840 no life. Like just lean up after yourself. No, it's something that we've come across 360 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:21,520 plenty and we, of course, uh, Alex and I and the botches crew have always been pretty, 361 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,680 you know, we've always felt strongly about cleaning the trails as well, taking what we 362 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:32,560 can out. Yep. And it's very important to keep our trails clean and very nice because once 363 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:37,920 they start getting gross and misused is when they start shutting them down and we start 364 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:44,200 losing losing our privileges or rights to go to places that we really enjoy and love. 365 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:54,320 Can I say something about that? I'm going to be a little controversial here. Uh, M 22 366 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,160 people throw trash out the window. They're not going to close that down because people 367 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:05,800 throw trash out. Right. Why are they going to close any other through way? Because yeah, 368 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:13,560 yeah, just like, well, and actually to expand on that a little, the DNR, well, this is Moab 369 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,400 that I'm talking about here, but I'm sure it occurs here too. The DNR, the, uh, what 370 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,240 is it? The burrow of whatever that Moab has, they'll shut down trails. Cause they say that 371 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:28,600 there's not enough evidence of use. Well, the evidence use, the evidence use they're 372 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,680 talking about is trash. And if we're picking up the trash, they have no evidence of use. 373 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:38,800 That's stupid. And they'll also shut down a trail for overuse. So I'm sorry. You know, 374 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,280 there was a really cool place to camp outside of Munising and it was called paradise point. 375 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:50,160 I, um, it was, we know it. Yeah. And it got closed down because of trash. Like I understand 376 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,280 that part of that went through the landowners property, but this is the thing. I have a 377 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:01,280 friend Lee Meadows. He did like an investigative report for the magazine and he interviewed 378 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,280 somebody from the ranger station about it. And he asked, and anybody ever been cited 379 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:12,240 for the trash out at paradise point? And they said, no, they didn't, they didn't think anybody 380 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,160 had. Well, you know, seriously do your job. If you're going to make rules and you're going 381 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:24,000 to have things where people can go camp and, and have regulations, enforce the damn regulations. 382 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:30,160 And I'm going to say to, you know, kudos to the people like you and I who do clean up 383 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:38,360 when we're out there. Um, it's not, it's not usually our group that's trashing it. A lot 384 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:49,040 of it is other types of tourists and it's a shame. Yeah. Yeah. I was at paradise point 385 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,920 and we pulled up and the parking was jammed. You couldn't get in there. You, we had, we 386 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,800 couldn't camp there. We had to, you know, hike in to camp. And the re I was like, I 387 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,320 asked somebody, I'm like, what the heck's going on here? He goes, Oh, it's a local's 388 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,920 setting. Like we're locals and we can do what we want. Yeah. And the next day we ended up 389 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,800 picking up like a whole garbage bag full of trash. Oh yeah. And then, and not to dog on 390 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,600 side by sides too much, cause there's a plenty of good side and responsible side by side 391 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:24,120 owners. But I will say that I've seen more people throw beer cans out of the side of 392 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:32,280 a side by side than I have any other off road group or type of group. So not saying that 393 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:40,000 on a side by sides are the devil of our trails, but get your, get your shit together. Yeah. 394 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,640 It's like the snowmobiles. You're not going to get caught or the guy just driving his 395 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:50,240 truck down, you know, drinking beers and pitching them so he doesn't get a DUI. Even back in 396 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:54,840 Jeep camp, we had a no alcohol on the trail rule. If you're going to ride with us, you're 397 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,480 not going to drink while you're driving. That's for camp. That's always for at camp. And it 398 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,720 always should be for at camp. And I'm sorry, leave the beer at home. If you can't go for 399 00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:09,920 a few hours without a beer, go check yourself into an AA treatment program. Absolutely. 400 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:17,440 You have bigger issues at that point. Yeah. So I guess to, to kind of move into that, 401 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,640 since we're talking about these, the trails and stuff, do you have a favorite trail? Do 402 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,680 you have a favorite area that you like or how about this? I can broaden it a little 403 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:33,280 bit. Favorite state. Do you, I mean, is Michigan your favorite or man, are you really, I mean, 404 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:39,920 don't worry. We won't judge. It's okay. Cause I could almost say that I've never been to 405 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:48,120 Oregon, but I see the pictures and views of like Oregon and Washington and this past summer 406 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:57,400 I fell in love with Idaho. Oh, I've never heard. I've never heard. Amazing. And you 407 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:05,880 know, the most I was driving by, we were just driving back south of Stanley, Idaho and we 408 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:11,240 come up, you know, we're driving down this valley between these two mountain ranges and 409 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:16,400 the, the most captivating, beautiful mountain range I've ever seen in my life was to my 410 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:22,400 left. It's called the lost river range. And it almost looks like watercolor painted the 411 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:29,200 way the erosion is coming down the sides. It's just beautiful. And we spent some time 412 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:37,060 with some friends from core that we've met at core. They live in McCall. And so we went 413 00:43:37,060 --> 00:43:43,840 out one day, our friends, Chris and Jill Carr with 1941 adventures, wanted to go to black 414 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:49,440 lake. We weren't able to make it. Cause I mean, it was July 4th or fifth or sixth or 415 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:57,480 whatever and there was still snow, but just the views are amazing. And then the next day 416 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,560 talking about responsible, nice side-by-side people, our friends took their side-by-side 417 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,800 and they led us over to yellow pine. And we went through some incredible mountain passes 418 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:19,000 and just, just amazing stuff out there. Right. You know, that whole area of the state or 419 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,360 I'm sorry, the country is just seems like it's so much more wilder, so much more to 420 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:30,760 see so many more empty trails. Yeah. But you know, there's something out there that you 421 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:36,120 don't like out there, the forest and everything is completely different. Yep. And back here 422 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:43,160 in Northern Wisconsin and the UP that to me just feels like home. You know, it just the 423 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:50,920 boreal nature, the, all of the pines and it's lush and it's except for this summer was in 424 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:57,640 a drought. It's just so arid out there and the ground is so loose. If you happen to be 425 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:05,720 towing a U-Haul trailer and get yourself stuck, you'll learn that there's no traction. 426 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:13,160 Yeah. Oh my, does that sound fun? No, it was that, but you know, it is absolutely beautiful 427 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:19,320 and there is something amazing about those above the tree line views of the mountains 428 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:24,280 that you can't get that. Just don't see that much here. I mean, you have, you have some 429 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:30,880 scenic lookouts, you have porcupine mountains, but I mean, and that's about it. And as far 430 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:37,680 as like rocks and stuff go and you know, the mountain, the rocky terrain, I would say it, 431 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,200 when I first went into the UP one, that was a huge shock because the UP was like, all 432 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,400 of a sudden you started seeing rocks and cliff edges kind of coming out of the ground. And 433 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,360 I'm like, I'm still in Michigan, right? It's a whole, it's a whole different state. It's 434 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,680 a whole different state and people who are, who have never been over the bridge, never 435 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:02,200 been to places like Copper Harbor or like Chris point, two hearted whitefish point area. 436 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,600 Never seen the waterfalls. It's, it's like a whole different state and you should really 437 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:14,280 give it a try. It's, it's, it's very humbling and how quiet it is actually, as soon as you 438 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:24,360 get over the bridge. Yes. Unless you go to those places that like everybody goes like, 439 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:32,920 the mouth or even high rock Bay can get very busy. I do take responsibility for like 50 440 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:40,880 people camping at high rock Bay on the night before core. Well, I tell you, no, I, high 441 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,920 rock Bay's some, one of our, one of our, on our checklist actually go to, I haven't been 442 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:53,400 there yet. But I've seen videos. I watched countless videos of people traveling area. 443 00:46:53,400 --> 00:47:00,280 I think I watched those arc overland adventures do the core here last year, a couple of years 444 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:08,000 ago. Yeah. And that was so cool to watch. It's, it's like, and now I'm talking to the, one 445 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,680 of the founders of core and it's like, wow, you know, it's like, it is, it's, it's daunting, 446 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:19,280 but it's really cool. Now, okay. Just speaking about celebrities, Benji is like a way bigger 447 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:26,320 celebrity than I am. I'm not a celebrity. You are, you are a celebrity. It's stupid to even 448 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:33,160 say it, but it doesn't happen. It's not just me. I have a team of volunteers that help 449 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:38,880 out every year. It wouldn't happen without them. You know, my husband's been very instrumental 450 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,800 in support and he's been at these events too. And it's, you know, it's, I'm just the nerd 451 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:49,240 that wanted to make friends with other overlanders and outdoor adventurers. That's, that's, I 452 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:54,600 mean, really that's kind of how botches is, is kind of pushing towards their direction. 453 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,480 We're off road group that I have joined somewhat recently and we just started the podcast because 454 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,400 we wanted to share our adventures and, and kind of get out there and make friends and 455 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,060 make connections and do the same thing. And I don't know, we've had a lot of success so 456 00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:16,400 far with just meeting people and, and getting stories and hearing like how it, like just 457 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,760 getting in tact with you and talking about core, getting in tact with a, in Benji and 458 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:26,960 talking about the cool stuff he's got going on. So it's been really cool. Even just being, 459 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,880 you know, a podcast has been alive for what? Two months. Maybe that. Yeah. I think we've 460 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:38,840 been live for about two months. I think, well, maybe not, maybe not even two months. I think 461 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:45,560 the beginning of October was our first episode. Yeah. So, wow. Yeah. So we're pushing. Yeah. 462 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,560 We're, and now that we've met you, there's not really, that's kind of, that's all. That's 463 00:48:49,560 --> 00:49:00,080 it. Well, I feel like personally, I'm a connector. Right. If I know that, you know, this guy 464 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:07,200 loves Toyota's and mountain biking, he's better. This guy who loves Toyota's and mountain biking, 465 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:13,680 you know? Yeah. And I think core is one big version of that, right? It's a, it's a, it's 466 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,360 one big connector that brings everybody together who loves the outdoors. And that's why it's 467 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:25,280 such a special event. And that's why we've talked so much about this during this podcast, 468 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,480 even though this is supposed to be more of an interview about, you know, just you and 469 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:36,240 these events kind of on the side, but core is just so special. And, and the event itself 470 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:41,960 is just so helpful to the off-road community and Michigan and the surrounding areas that, 471 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:47,880 I mean, I mean, it's something that I hope never goes away. I mean, I think that it only 472 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:56,720 gets better and it only improves the, I don't know, agenda, I guess, of, of, and the outlook 473 00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:02,000 of how people look at us as an overlanding community, outdoor community. 474 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:09,560 You know, one of the coolest things about doing or creating core is just seeing what 475 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:15,560 happens because of the connections made there. I've seen people that camps together. The 476 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,600 next thing you know, they have their own group and they're, they're getting together and 477 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:26,920 doing things or, or, you know, we had a vendor that came and that eventually ended up hiring 478 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:33,520 a couple of our team members and they moved and now they live in Michigan. Just all sorts 479 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:39,360 of cool things like that. You know, just see, watch vendors get together and now they're 480 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:44,120 working with each other and doing collaborations and that's really cool. 481 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:51,440 Yeah, it's, it is. It's cool seeing, it's cool seeing the, the big guys all coming in 482 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:57,440 and helping kind of promote core and what it was too. It's, it's special. And now you 483 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:04,920 have overlanding the red, which is relatively newer. And that's going really well too. Do 484 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:12,520 you have any plans to make anything else coming up? Do you have any, I mean, not saying that 485 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:18,320 there are rumors, but is there any rumors of camps or any kind of more events coming 486 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:19,320 up? 487 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:25,120 Oh my God, there shouldn't be any rumors because I've been kind of quiet about it, but there 488 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:34,340 may be something new this year. I would stay tuned to the magazine, maybe like January 489 00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:35,340 issue. 490 00:51:35,340 --> 00:51:40,000 Ooh, can you release it on my birthday? Can it be a birthday present? 491 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,000 What's your birthday? 492 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,000 It's on the eighth. 493 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:49,040 Now I'll probably be on the first magazine comes out. Read it till the eighth and I will. 494 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,520 It'll sound like a birthday present. 495 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:56,000 Yes. And you know, I don't know if you guys know this, but we also do other events. I 496 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:02,120 do in May we do, we go up to copper Harbor at trails and campground. It's a very relaxed 497 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:09,680 weekend. You pay 50 bucks. Half of it goes to the cork organization, Kewin outdoor recreation 498 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:16,320 coalition, and they're hosting that weekend to clean up. So we cover the camping. We get, 499 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:23,240 you know, goodie bags and this past year, Red Ridge industries, a sponsored camp and 500 00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:28,300 just a real relaxed get together on Saturday morning. You go meet at the park. They give 501 00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:34,600 you bags and trash or bags and gloves. You go out and you pick up trash and then they 502 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:41,440 cook you lunch and give away some prizes. And then one year we did open skies tour. 503 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,760 And one year we did the Delaware mine tour. We just always have an afternoon activity. 504 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:52,640 You can also take off and just go trail riding or do whatever you want. Yeah. That's the 505 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:57,200 weekend before Memorial day. And I've had people tell me, this is my favorite event 506 00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:03,240 because it's even more relaxed in it and we're given back. And then I host a Midwest, it's 507 00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:09,060 called the Midwest women's offer weekend in Wisconsin. We've had Carrie Porter from discover 508 00:53:09,060 --> 00:53:16,600 four by four adventures and Katie Abraham, who is a rebel rally participant. She's also 509 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,900 studying to be an international four wheel drive training association trainer. And she's 510 00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:30,080 also doing some of the, uh, with dirt fish, the, the rally racing training. So yeah, some 511 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:38,340 and, and Karen McClellan from Ozark overland adventures has been here. And we also again 512 00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:46,640 do some small cleanups and, and, uh, some just free fun stuff with Wisconsin Oberlin. 513 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:53,520 Oh, that is amazing. So we are starting to wrap it up a little bit and I have decided 514 00:53:53,520 --> 00:54:02,100 just now to do a hot take section and I just want to hear your hot take on the drum and 515 00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:09,020 island situation. Okay. Yeah. I just, so, so I just decided to do this section and maybe 516 00:54:09,020 --> 00:54:14,480 we'll keep it from now on, but I want to hear a hot take and, and I want to know what you 517 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:21,420 think and if in just your opinion on it, no, no one's wrong, but just your opinion. My 518 00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:32,200 opinion actually starts with the incredible entangled bureaucracy that kind of hid the 519 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:44,380 fact that funds for Drummond and those trails went through a program that you had to have 520 00:54:44,380 --> 00:54:54,260 everything accessible to two wheel drive. Yep. Nobody knew that. Um, I'm not sure who's 521 00:54:54,260 --> 00:55:00,980 to blame for that, but it really frustrates me that we have so many, so much red tape 522 00:55:00,980 --> 00:55:08,860 and so much regulation and so much bureaucracy that it's hard to know those things. And then 523 00:55:08,860 --> 00:55:14,820 you know, so what, I don't know what prompted them to decide that now was the time to do 524 00:55:14,820 --> 00:55:20,300 that, but there was nothing anybody could do because that was done. They did it like 525 00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:25,260 in the, like thieves, like at the night, like the thieves on the night, they just, well, 526 00:55:25,260 --> 00:55:31,020 that was for our perspective. Yeah. That's what they do. That's how the program works. 527 00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:37,380 And the fact that we don't know that is because most people are very politically ignorant 528 00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:43,260 and I'm not saying that's bad. I just don't know what's going on. And there's been just 529 00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:51,300 so much, I don't even want to get into the whole political side of it. I just, I just 530 00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:56,260 know that, you know, that's how it was. And when it happened, it hurt us so bad because 531 00:55:56,260 --> 00:56:03,580 we weren't paying any attention. Yeah. We didn't know to pay attention. It's so hard 532 00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:11,700 from your point, it's so hard to be attuned and listening in on all of the off road happenings 533 00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:17,100 and all of the things that the DNR are doing and all of the things that these other communities 534 00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:23,900 are trying to do all at the same time. And a lot of things will slip through the cracks. 535 00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:28,740 I didn't even think of listening in on some of these communities that were talking about 536 00:56:28,740 --> 00:56:35,740 Drummond, never thought that it would happen. I remember taking that, or well, my stepdad 537 00:56:35,740 --> 00:56:40,180 taking that while I was a young boy. And that was the first time that I was ever on Drummond 538 00:56:40,180 --> 00:56:44,180 and doing Marblehead. And that was something that I always looked forward to doing with 539 00:56:44,180 --> 00:56:52,220 my son. And not to say that it's done and over and then it's gone, but it's definitely 540 00:56:52,220 --> 00:57:00,340 lacks the luster that it once had. And did the Jeep remove the badge of honor designation? 541 00:57:00,340 --> 00:57:06,500 They did for a little while. They did. Did they give it back? I believe that they ended 542 00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:12,380 up giving it back after a few people wrote in and said that the trail wasn't completely 543 00:57:12,380 --> 00:57:21,220 gone. It was just half gone. And I know some of the reasoning was so that it was more accessible, 544 00:57:21,220 --> 00:57:28,980 which is a two-edged sword, because more accessible also means more people can get up there and 545 00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:33,860 throw their garbage around. So there were better ways to go. In my opinion, there were 546 00:57:33,860 --> 00:57:39,660 better ways to go around it. They could have spent more time or money, drilled holes in 547 00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:45,260 the ground, put fence posts up. They could have gone a large number of things. They could 548 00:57:45,260 --> 00:57:50,420 have provided tickets. Yeah. Why don't we have people just sitting there? Why don't 549 00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:56,460 we have trail cameras? With what they did, all they had to do was backfill it with pea 550 00:57:56,460 --> 00:58:02,260 gravel and in five years it would be back to normal. Yeah. Just the gravel itself. And 551 00:58:02,260 --> 00:58:11,820 you know what? Even pulling it back out, asking our off-road buddies, our off-road trail associations 552 00:58:11,820 --> 00:58:15,740 and communities, I would have sat up there with a bucket and shovel and I would have 553 00:58:15,740 --> 00:58:19,780 helped remove it and I would have helped put it up there, but they didn't. And the way 554 00:58:19,780 --> 00:58:28,780 that they went about it was just so sneaky. At least that's how it felt. You know? 555 00:58:28,780 --> 00:58:39,540 It really emphasizes the fact that we really need to get involved. We need to learn what 556 00:58:39,540 --> 00:58:45,420 those situations are, what the dangers are. I mean, I love what they're doing out the 557 00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:51,620 Blue Ribbon Coalition out West. They're really putting the foot down on the, putting the 558 00:58:51,620 --> 00:58:57,260 hammer down, trying to get these things taken care of and prevent trails from being closed. 559 00:58:57,260 --> 00:59:04,620 I also feel like I get really upset and I don't know somebody, like Jeep, come on Jeep, 560 00:59:04,620 --> 00:59:12,580 you market these vehicles to do these things. Let's put some money into, put it into where 561 00:59:12,580 --> 00:59:17,580 we need to focus our attention and reading. 562 00:59:17,580 --> 00:59:23,620 Any of these vehicles that are advertised to go off-road with air quotations for the 563 00:59:23,620 --> 00:59:32,300 listeners, it's to not put any money towards that or to not help in any way. It's just 564 00:59:32,300 --> 00:59:36,860 at that point, it's just a cash grab for the automobile makers. I mean, 565 00:59:36,860 --> 00:59:42,740 I was going to say on that note, just to toot the horn, we've been involved with Tread Lightly 566 00:59:42,740 --> 00:59:47,740 events and hosted them. We actually officially joined this year as a business supporter. 567 00:59:47,740 --> 00:59:48,740 Nice. 568 00:59:48,740 --> 00:59:56,140 That's good. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the idea of Tread Lightly. I absolutely love it. And 569 00:59:56,140 --> 01:00:02,540 something like I said that me and Alex and Mark here at Botches, we all, you know, we 570 01:00:02,540 --> 01:00:07,580 take seriously because we know how much of an effect that it has me as a, you know, not 571 01:00:07,580 --> 01:00:12,260 a former, but I don't do it anywhere near as much hike or backpacker understand that 572 01:00:12,260 --> 01:00:19,640 trails can get shut down pretty quickly. And it almost happens as quicker on the four by 573 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:27,540 four communities. So between trails getting graded and easier to travel so that they can 574 01:00:27,540 --> 01:00:32,520 be cleaned up, however you want to put it. 575 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,700 And then randomly turned into side by side trails. Yeah. That happens. Yeah. 576 01:00:37,700 --> 01:00:43,820 Watching a soft road in the West video where he went up this trail in Idaho. So go watch 577 01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:50,220 his latest video that would look like a really fun to track. And it was ATV only. So he was 578 01:00:50,220 --> 01:00:57,860 rerouted back to this wide lay mass level gravel road. And the irony of the ATVs using 579 01:00:57,860 --> 01:01:03,340 that road along with him while he couldn't use their road was not lost. 580 01:01:03,340 --> 01:01:08,980 You know, that is funny that the way that you put that I using on X and one of my favorite 581 01:01:08,980 --> 01:01:16,740 apps to use for overlanding and off-roading on it. Yeah. Sponsors please. No, I've had 582 01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:22,360 a couple mistakes where I've gone off and found myself on the 65 inch trail or something 583 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:29,260 like that. And all of a sudden I'm having fun. I mean, I mean, I mean the 65 inch trails 584 01:01:29,260 --> 01:01:36,460 are are obviously slim. And if you don't mind the pinstripes and then like I don't, then 585 01:01:36,460 --> 01:01:42,500 they're absolutely great. And then going back to these, you know, four by four high clearance, 586 01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:45,500 four by four roads, it's like, this is boring. 587 01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:50,980 Yeah. And you really have to, you really have to search in Michigan when you start looking 588 01:01:50,980 --> 01:01:56,700 for some trails like that. Most of them are the ones that aren't marked. So it's, it does. 589 01:01:56,700 --> 01:02:03,980 And again, this goes back to keeping the trails clean, keeping them tidy and, and making sure 590 01:02:03,980 --> 01:02:11,100 that there's no excuse for anyone to have to plow these roads, uh, to clean them up, 591 01:02:11,100 --> 01:02:15,260 to shut them down. It all goes back into cleaning the trail. 592 01:02:15,260 --> 01:02:20,260 Yeah, but I don't, I don't think even if marble had had been clean, which it was, I don't 593 01:02:20,260 --> 01:02:25,980 ever remember seeing trash marble. Yeah. You know, I think they would have done it either 594 01:02:25,980 --> 01:02:32,020 way. I think, yeah, it wasn't a, it wasn't because of trash. It was because of where 595 01:02:32,020 --> 01:02:40,300 the funds came from. Yeah. So how they had to treat that. Yeah. I also believe that the 596 01:02:40,300 --> 01:02:48,260 trucks and ATV is going past the barrier that says, you know, no vehicle traffic also like 597 01:02:48,260 --> 01:02:53,460 maybe sped that decision up. Yeah, absolutely. And nobody's, nobody's sticking up for those 598 01:02:53,460 --> 01:03:00,420 guys. We all know and don't love that. Um, I'm going to ask a question to anybody listening 599 01:03:00,420 --> 01:03:06,500 that might be involved with DNR or maybe just knows, could someone please forward me the 600 01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:11,820 statute that says you can't drive on the beach in Michigan because there are things that 601 01:03:11,820 --> 01:03:16,980 say that, but people do it and they, they put up new signs, people take them down, they 602 01:03:16,980 --> 01:03:22,600 put up new signs, but I just really would like to know where in the law I can refer 603 01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:27,620 to that when people say, well, we've always done it. Yeah. We've always done that. It's 604 01:03:27,620 --> 01:03:34,620 very different. Yeah. I'm a local. We've always done it. Yeah. And the locals are, and I hate 605 01:03:34,620 --> 01:03:39,860 to say this, but 99% of the time the locals are the ones ripping out the signs. They're 606 01:03:39,860 --> 01:03:44,720 the ones moving the boulders. They're the ones going out there on the Friday nights 607 01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:53,220 and trashing the place. And so it's punishing all for the mistakes of a few is just silly. 608 01:03:53,220 --> 01:04:01,500 Well, I also think that, um, some people just don't know any better. And when they're reading 609 01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:07,020 the tread lightly information, you see some light bulb moments, you know, they have some, 610 01:04:07,020 --> 01:04:11,300 you know, how to traverse like an obstacle or a puddle. Don't go around it, go through 611 01:04:11,300 --> 01:04:15,740 it. But most people think they'd be maybe treading lightly by not going through it and 612 01:04:15,740 --> 01:04:22,260 splashing, but you just need to go right through it and making it bigger. And I feel like, 613 01:04:22,260 --> 01:04:29,220 you know, part of my mission also is to help educate people and, uh, you know, bring people 614 01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:37,060 together and educate them and have fun. That's exactly what core is doing. That's, and we 615 01:04:37,060 --> 01:04:42,860 love that you, uh, that we love that you made that we're so very grateful that it's a thing 616 01:04:42,860 --> 01:04:47,220 that we have in Michigan. And now that you have overlanding the red, you're spreading 617 01:04:47,220 --> 01:04:54,020 that, um, you know, spreading that awareness and the sense of community everywhere else. 618 01:04:54,020 --> 01:04:59,420 And, uh, on behalf of the local four by four communities, we really, we really do thank 619 01:04:59,420 --> 01:05:05,180 you for everything you've done. We really appreciate it. Like I said, it's, it, it makes 620 01:05:05,180 --> 01:05:10,980 waves much greater than just Michigan, much greater than Kentucky. And you can see that 621 01:05:10,980 --> 01:05:16,820 in the videos of other people from all around the country that come to core that come to 622 01:05:16,820 --> 01:05:21,860 overlanding the red. And they talk about how great of an event it is and how well that 623 01:05:21,860 --> 01:05:27,620 you and the co-founder are doing. Um, and of course everybody else that volunteers, 624 01:05:27,620 --> 01:05:33,180 I mean, this is, it speaks to you guys as a one and how well you guys do. So we just 625 01:05:33,180 --> 01:05:40,820 would really thank you for that. And, um, we're really excited to attend the next one. 626 01:05:40,820 --> 01:05:46,860 And uh, yeah, I mean, this has been a really, really great interview. We really loved talking 627 01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:52,580 to you about this. Um, and I would think we might have to have you on again at some point. 628 01:05:52,580 --> 01:06:00,700 Oh, thank you. Cause I would love to talk about the more expo. Yes. Yes. We, I have 629 01:06:00,700 --> 01:06:05,700 a Benji story from the more expo. I may have met Benji. I don't know if I was formally 630 01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:10,460 introduced, but, um, we host the camping experience there. So everybody comes in and checks in. 631 01:06:10,460 --> 01:06:15,340 We've got a set up there. We've got fire pits going and, um, each evening we're all hanging 632 01:06:15,340 --> 01:06:21,900 out and Benji and a gaggle of people in those hats with the fur that stick out the flappy 633 01:06:21,900 --> 01:06:28,060 hats were probably had a, they were probably a few beers in, but they were carousing from 634 01:06:28,060 --> 01:06:34,740 camps to camp, just saying hi, like a band of pirates on the high seas. And it was just 635 01:06:34,740 --> 01:06:39,080 kind of funny and it was, it was a fun, fun time. Yeah. Well definitely have you come 636 01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:45,780 in and we, we can definitely do another mini-sode or maybe even another full length for talking 637 01:06:45,780 --> 01:06:50,620 about more and just, just love to pick your brain about some other stuff and just talking 638 01:06:50,620 --> 01:06:55,260 in general. It's really great to hear from you. It's really great to hear the stories 639 01:06:55,260 --> 01:07:00,340 and the history behind it. And like I said, we thank you very much for coming on to the 640 01:07:00,340 --> 01:07:07,460 botches off road podcast and, uh, and yeah. Well, I would love to thank you so much for 641 01:07:07,460 --> 01:07:36,060 having me on. It was, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. Thanks.